00:00:08 Speaker 1: This is me eat podcast coming at you shirtless, severely bug Bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You can't predict anything presented by first, like creating proven versatile hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear for every hunt. First like go farther, stay longer. Uh, you want to talk about severely bug bitten? You know what? That's a reference to the andro of the podcast. Very good? Um, holy shit. So, Uh, I'm working I don't even know if you guys know about this thing. I'm working on this same with Phelps, where I've been saying to him how I wanted, uh do a turkey call project Jason Phelps and Phelps game calls. I want to do a turn call project where we walk people through the process of making turkey calls. Starting with a tree. So he's got a buddy where he hunts in. Um, he'd hunted there to spring on this guy's place in Kansas. And this guy's got a ton of black walnuts not far from Walnut, Kansas, so many black walnuts. And he's got a bunch of oh sage orange on his place. So me and Felts went there and we're with some walnut experts and cruised around while you're smirking, she never heard of a walnut walnut expert. That's a pretty neat is this guy's hat, says, we buy walnut logs. I hinted very heavily about wanting that hat, but did not take the bab was like, my goodness, that's a nice hat. I'd love to have a hat like that. Give me your hat, pick it up. Walnut, Kansas. We selected a big gass walnut. I felled it and learned a new felling technique. Um, like when you're cutting stove wood, you know how like the classic and they do it out here. You know, you got your class where you cut the v notch, you know, I mean they want that thing down to the dirt, man, like you could drive a lawnmower over the stumps they leave in the woods. They don't because it's expensive lumber. Yeah, Like when they're doing these like very you know, I mean they you could be cutting down a seven eight thousand dollar tree, you know, Um yeah, they don't. I mean down to the dirt, and they court I'll have to get into a similar time. And it was learned learning interesting felling technique so we felt a big gass walnut and we fetishized its not like big in what a walnut could be, but uh yeah, twenty eight inch bar wouldn't get through it. Um fetishized with a drone and stuff like that, so people can really get to know the tree. Well, what's his name or her name? And then Phelps Then we went and Phelps cut down uh oh sage orange and our estimate is that we'll get a thousand pot calls out of that black walnut. What's the orange for the strikers? He thinks we'll get over a thousand strikers out of the o s a orange, cut it down, bucked it up, brought it to a mill, milled it into and uh we milled it um six It's kind of weird how they do it. Six quarters so inch and a half pieces, but they don't say that when you're running the mill. They say six quarters. I was like, you mean like an inch and a half and they're like six quarters. That's why you didn't get that hat smart And then the strike of pieces we milled smaller and uh anyways, holy cowman, did I get mauled by chiggers the first day I did the promethron all over the place. Um. The second day, we're like going to the mill and I didn't know what the hell I pictured it. I don't know. We're going to this guy's mill, and um I wanted being His mill is basically out in knee knee high grass and we were out there for five hours mill and lumber. And I didn't do anythings. I just had a pair of sneakers on and man, that came up my legs. Dude, I'm in like suffering. Oh this is different bleach bath yet. No, I haven't done any of those tricks we learned the Missouri Like what do you do you see a diesel fuel? Yeah, don't stop bleach. I'm trying to imagine my wife where I'm like, no, baby, I'm just gonna fill this up with diesel. Feeling like everybody we talked to you told us a false. In Missouri, everybody told us a false. And about what chiggers do, we were told many times that they lay eggs inside of you and you need to kill the eggs with gas bleach yah or by like shut eggs can't breathe a lot of misinformation. I go to the doctors. I even know, I had to go on steroids. I got it so bad. The first time I got it, I was like running a fever from Yeah, yeah, she's been there. She's like, do they like lay an egg inside of you? I'm like, no, they don't lay an egg inside. The doctor asked you that, like, it's not a bot fly. She gave me steroids though, and then so that and then this, like, well on my arms. I was camping with my kids on Saturday night and we got up Sunday morning, went for a hike and it got pretty hot out and the kids wanted to strip down and jump in this little creek and it's just the temperature came up and it was just we're in a big burn area and it's crazy wild flowers and just pollinators everywhere, and man, it got to like, I don't know, at some magical temperature, everything just turned crazy and the kids got stung up. I got this one that's from a beasting. I thought that was the royds. No getting amped over there. Yeah, there's like a bicep size well on Steve's its harm below his elbow looks. It looks like it's just I feel like you need to go to the doctor and have it drained. I'm gonna wait and see. He's my doctor's love. He's going to wait and see. Method. Stay tuned everyone for the next Instagram post where Steve work on Instagram. I might put that on here. So the thing we're gonna do is we're gonna have a thousand turkey calls. I'm gonna call it. We're gonna call it the line one call in reference to the line one Herford. I just like that line one. So we're gonna number him one doing. What does that mean? Because the next time we chop a tree down and do a whole thing, we're going to film the whole thing. So we cut it down, milled it. We're gonna film killing, drying the lumber. You're gonna be exciting. We're gonna have well, just the thing about it, Yeah, it's the videos. The videos eight weeks long TV. People be like, man, that one part where it's like in that killing for six hours only six weeks. I got boring. Film the whole process, and then we're gonna sell the calls, and so you can get a call where you watch the whole process happened, cut down the tree. But here's what we want to do. We're gonna number them like fine art, like print runs. So whatever, if the tree yields one thousand and eleven calls, we're gonna sell one thousand and eleven numbered one to one thousand and eleven. And it's off the tree that I cut, and the striker comes from the tree that Felps cut, and we do the whole thing. What we want to do is then have a drawing and we draw a number one to one thousand eleven. Whoever holds the call gets to go hunt the place where the tree came from. You mean, whoever whoever filled killed ads from the tree? Who you mean whoever pulls number one? No, you take numbers one, take ping pong balls and have someone I don't know who spencer or someone ping pong balls and label them one to eleven, and you put him into the one of those ping pong ball blowers eventually spits a number out, spits a ping pong ball out. Whoever bought that turkey call gets to so let's say it spits out like nin Whoever holds that call gets a free turkey hunt where we cut the trees down. And I think we would call in and kill a turkey on the stump. That's good content. Yeah, that's good. I feel like Spencer. He acts like he doesn't like my idea. I love it. Yeah. Joined by Kevin Gillespie. What's up, guys, and our very own Daniel Prude is here as well. Don't make it up to the old office very much, do you. I was just telling them my last time here was that Christmas party. Really that's probably a good time. That's a nice job. I should do that long time. Yeah. So you probably just go weeks atout doing nothing because no one, no one to catch you. I wish no just be like, oh yeah, I'm real busy now I bother everybody on Slack and tell everybody and we need a meeting. It's a true story from Kevin Gillaspie of many things, like red Beard Restaurant group, well for now until it's starting to go gray. So we may be changing the name of the restaurant. You really changed around the gray Beard like a pirate theme park, Yes, speckled Calico Beard something I don't know. We gotta work to gray Beard. Um did a couple of stints over at Bravo's Top Shelf. Ye is working with us now good stuff. Yeah. Man, somebody at the montana Al Works had a freak out last night when they recognized me from Top Chef. Yeah. I ended up taking photos like ten people at their works last night. Yeah, it just started a chain reaction. I don't think the tenth person knew who I was, and they were like, well, something's happening over here. Yeah, exactly. I think they thought I was Zach Brown. Maybe I don't really know who they thought it was. It'd be fun to do, uh, just to stage one of those and take a completely unknown person a few people act blowing away that they saw them, and then see if it's contagious. It will work guarantee. When I was in school, um, these I knew these two painters and they did this little series they were doing where they would going to a restaurant did they just did like a social experience where they'd film it to make these funny videos about they'd go in to a restaurant and they'd have someone leave all their stuff out and have their food and they'd have to go to the bathroom. So they'd say to the person at the next table, Hey, do you mind watching my stuff? I can run in the bathroom and people are, you know, but then the other one of them would come in and start eating the food, and they would watch to see the person who had agreed to watch the stuff. How the person would respond to someone like very sneakily sitting down and trying to quickly like eat their food. And most people wouldn't confront them, really know, they'd look and that's terrible. Yeah, they wouldn't. They wouldn't do anything. So they had agreed to do it, but they bail. They would bail. But some people would say something once they start eating, it's too late. So you just kind of like they look like, you know, just confused. I can imagine that there'd be people people aren't that, you know, they don't observe things that well. They might even think that was the person who went to the bathroom. Yeah, it's just like because it's like a thing you just say to people like in the airport, or you might watch my someone It's like, I don't know, I don't think watching their stuff. I'm fairly certain that the security video now tells you to immediately tell someone if someone asks you to watch their bag. What you do is watch this bag and take it on the plane with you. Would you just watch this briefcase of mind and if it shakes, it's fine. I miss uh that genre of TV hidden camera. I feel like in other countries it's still like a thing, but for some reason in our country we were just like we left it behind. No I think like no, I think it's thriving really, like the whole punked thing and all that was the whole thing, Like who's the guy that's got the who's the nighttime guy that's got the cute little haircut? All of them, James Cord, Jimmy, Yeah, they're big Franks, but Conan hasn't done nighttime TV, and it thought he's got like a lately he's they're big in before you real quick. Uh, we'll get back some of the stuff and that we gotta cover off on a couple of things. So a little bit of news about macro fructations there. It is so I had I was using the word the other day that that um was so off so not a word that it yielded zero Google reasonlds like there's no spencer said you can bang your keyboard and get hits nearly and certain like bang your keyboard and search that it'll something macro froctation zero hits. Well, so many people went to look up macro froctation after the episode came out that now Google will auto phil macro froctation to the real word. No, there is nothing. But then some guy I said, I wanted to get the domain name. Some guy went and got the damn domain name right out from under me by Wednesday. On Wednesday, the episode came out on Monday. By Wednesday, someone had secured the domain that just goes to the episode. You're gonna be stuck with macro froctation exactly. How would we have? Yeah, so I gotta get like the macro function dot com. I think he's probably gonna try to hold his ransom to get the damn u r l uh. We got some shirts. We got some macro froctation shirts coming out. But I want to point out I did the other day. I was like, man, we need to do limited on a macro fructation shirts. I was a syllable off, Yeah, macro what's the actual word macro fructification. Syllable off Ridiculed by my colleagues. I lost some faith in Google after this, that they couldn't figure out that's what you were looking for. Fructification means that the act of fructify, fructifying, the act to fructifying, or so this is this is this is it. Fructification means the act of fructifying or the fruiting of a plant, fungus, etcetera. A macro fructification is a large or macro fun guy fruiting. But this is only for mushrooms. It's not like a fruit tree. I don't see why you wouldn't be able to call an apple a macro fructification, which I might start a macto macro fructication or whatever dictation fructation. Yeah, I don't know how many people throw this word around. I can't. I don't think I can even say I could try it out. Macro macro fructification exactly. That's a mushroom. So the underground body of a mushroom, the mycelium. Something triggers it, like burns. Burns like burns make morrel. Burns make morrel my celium go crazy. It somehow triggers it and it throws off what I call massive macgirl fructations shortened from fract You know I'm talking about fructo paganins. Well, I guess Spencer. Now we can just start adding that word into all of our morell articles to hit perfect. Now, the moral of the story is the only hit. If I'm wrong, well, that's gonna be extra lame. The moral of the story, good Man's on it. He came up with can we use that? Is that the title of the actual article? Now it's the title of this episode, the macro froctation. Uh, God feels good. Like he's like a jingle guy. I feel like you missed your calling as like a jingle man. Well, I'm I'm starting. I'm using this as a launchpad to that. The morale to the story, does it does hit your all of a sudden. I can't help it, Steve. It's gotta be a deodorant company out there that needs your help. Yeah, he works in like sub He works at a sub sentence level. That's true. Just like he doesn't have good sentences. He just says good like good like um partial sentences whatever you call little micro snippets. Yeah, he's a jingle man. Yeah, it's perfect. The morale of the story is even when I'm wrong, long, I'm only a little wrong. That's the uh, i'mgoing debate about whether or not naming your kid hunter would backfire on you. Um, and that you know there's people wrote in a while ago. UH on the episode called Controlled Rock with Brad Leone, we some people wrote in where a guy wanted name his god dude's last name is Fisher. We talked about this. He wants the name is kid Hunter, so his kid's name is Hunter Fisher. His wife's like, doesn't want to do it, but she said if if me or John, He said it was a good idea that he could do it. Everybody said bad idea. I said, good idea. What do you think about that? Johanni Hunter Fisher. Travis was almost named Hunter and his dad was like, well, what if he really likes hunting, then he's he isn't it? So what's his middle name? His middle name in nas Hunter. But as okay, so you took his name. It did. That's a nice gesture. I just talked to my boy. UM tell her how nice it was. I'm not that. Yeah, she kind of screwed me on that whole deal. She said she'd do it when her passport expired, but she didn't want to get a new passport. She didn't want to get all the paperwork, so she's like, well, yeah, She's like, if my passport or my driver's ices expires, I'll just change with them. But why do it now? Like my subway card? I still you know, I can't. I don't want to change it before I get that. So now it's just she just never did it. Today's our thirteenth anniversary. Shorter amount of time you're gonna want to still hasn't change your damn name. Um. Anyways, there's a guy. We heard about this guy before. There's a game warden. Where is he located? Indiana? He's the District one Indiana Conservation Offics. No, he won. He was just recently honored with the District one Indiana Conservation Officer of the Year award, which puts him in running for the Pitzer Award, which is presented to the top overall conservation officer in Indiana and is selected from among the ten district award winners. This guy is in the big leagues. His name Hunter Law, Hunter Law. I used to work for a guy whose last name was mc cook, Chef McCook. Do you think McDonald's hunted that dude down? And hunt that dude down and brought him up board man, Like, what's gonna cost? Yeah, hunter law, I thought, so you don't think he should name it Joe or no? My idea, someone's idea was the name of Joe, middle name Hunter, last name Fisher because like, that dude is Joe Hunter Fishery. Honest, how often do you bring it up that your wife didn't change her last name? Never? Never interesting? How many usually be married? Almost twenty no sign of turned to the tide on that one. Twenty years in, she's like John dies and she changes it? Uh no, it never came up. Did your gal take your name? Mind what? My wife didn't either? The only one my my wife did. But I specifically told her she didn't have to. She still I don't know. I don't know why. I didn't know I even had the option. Next you told her she didn't have to. Well, I mean it's her choice anyway. That I was like, I'm not going to be offended if you don't take my last name. But yeah, my wife's got a solid last name. It's a great last name, and it's dying off Um what leave's like like I shouldn't say that, like her never mind, it's not dying off. There's playing people with that last name. But her sort of her line, Yeah, yeah, her end of the deal. Um the hell were we? Well, we talked to we had we had a guest on who had gotten toxoplasmosis from eating raw goat meat feral goats. So they both hunt goats in Hawaii ate the raw goatmeat got toxo plasmosis, and that propited a bunch of people right in who got the tocks from raw white tail meat, meaning that that deer was grazing around. And eight some catship and its wanderings. It's like the house feral cat. I'm assuming Bob cats cats, so bobcat whatever, house cat. Yeah, multiple people and and a commonality and they talked about is the early symptom being um spots in your vision? Do you go blind? I haven't heard anybody went blind. It's treatable. They were somebody in the Instagram comments of the episode saying that they got it and you can no longer see out of one eye and they had to relearn to shoot their rifle from the other eye because of it. They're still hunting deer, obviously, I think. So right there, cooking it so it was no more rare. My dad called me about this like a couple of years ago, because it was our tradition as a kid. Is that anytime you would when you killed a deer, like we would cut the heart out and eat it raw in the field. Like that was my family's sort of like honor the animal kind of tradition. Did it for years? Did it my whole lifle thing? Yeah, my dad talked about that too. They eat like an apple, yeah exactly. Yeah, Like you just take your pocket knife and slice pieces of it off and eat it in the field like while you're you know, no wrensing, nothing, just still hot. My old man went hunt with a guy and my dad described his head. He'd eat like he's eating huh. Yeah. So I've done it, I don't know, a hundred times in my life. And my dad called me out of the blue. He left a message. By the way, my dad still likes to tell me who is on the messages, and he's like, Kevin, it's your daddy, and I'm like, yeah, I know who this like. But he's like it told me about this, and he's like, you gotta started, you gotta stop eating him hearts like that because you're gonna get this. So I haven't yet. By the way, I also I haven't stopped doing that, so maybe I should. I don't know. I eat like a smidgeraw dear me, I can't picture quitting, but I'll let you guys know if it gets spotty soon. So quick note on docks. After we talked about menal Mrs Angelo on the lake where I grew up and how she would't let you go out on her dock hollyway every time you went near your place. Um, we got a couple of notes some people uh having weird stuff happened to him near docks. So a kayaker came out. What lake was this on? Oh, Vancouver Island. His friend lives in a small town on the island and has a dock. Okay, so this dude writes in This dude's friend has a dock on an island, and this guy has a problem with otters getting up on his dock, which I don't view. It's hard to me to view that as a problem. Yeah, it's like an Instagram moment, like waiting for you right there, you know. Yeah, if someone said to me, like you could have a dock. Yeah, and otters use it or not. I would go like, I'll take the doctor the otters. Yeah, because I think it's the mess that comes along with the otters. You've been You've been on our float in Salteast, Alaska's covered with fish carcasses from otters and otter poop, otter poop. But still I don't know for the fact that you have otters on your dock and you get to be like, look at those otters, I would probably feed. Well, that's probably wrong, isn't it to be out there feeding them? They got a poop. It's like their poop is scales. It's like a pack of it's like compacted scales and bones. I don't know either way. He rigged it up so it shocks the otters. He rigged it up, so yeah, it gives the otters an electrical shock when they clamb on there. Anyhow, on the other day, you were saying, how like there aren't that main people you'll find that are actually like, you know what, I hate nature. This might be one of those people. Could be Um, a kayaker combs long, grabs hold of the dock, get shocked, cops get involved. Uh. Another guy was talking about pulling up to fish fishing and pulling up to dock and got sprayed by water. Matt Elliott rohad. He goes, that's a very common thing now. People that don't like ducks and geese on their docks, so when the ducks are geese pull up and sprays you with water. This guy took it to be an anti fishing thing, but it's not an anti fishing thing. It's like a duck goose prevention system. I would see if I was gonna electric keep my dock or at least put up a little sign said morning. If I was filled, I'd say, like a hot doc. No, I never said that. Yeah, that's terrifying. Dade, my wife, her best friend drowned because of that. Like she was. They were like just laying out, I think, you know, like tanning on a dock, got super hot, hopped in the water, went to climb back up on the dock. Didn't know that that person had done that to their to their it was like a rental house. Touch the dock from the water, electrocuted him. Yeah, for sure, like two people died. It was in I think it was Lake Russell in Alabama a few years back. Like a big deal. So now the state of Alabama has like banned it, like you cannot. You can't even if you want to run power to your dock, like for your boat, it has to there's you know, laws about Yeah, exactly, because people just like just do it themselves. Um. I want to back up talk about Hunter. Do you know that our new I was gonna say that I'm redoing my whole perspective on Hunter because our new like resident artist. Oh yeah, well the left up old deer Stands project onbelievable job that guy did on that This is gonna be the number one calendar of all time. It was both of you, a fine art call off the cable book Listen. I'm waging an internal war in this company. Uh. I have battled with the detractors. I've battled the naysayers. Um, I'm coming into it injured but alive. The funked up old deer Stands calendar. Yeah, is Conter Spencer? Yeah? Please tell me what's this job called? Like? What would he say? He is graphic designer? No, because we have a graphic design opening that he's better than at. Yeah, probably like art lead of art or something like that, director of art director of art director. There you go. Now that has a bad connotation too. That's a marketing term ship all right, but where the hell is the term for that? Just to realize what feels all about that un when it's useful, like we actually need a thing now and he just ordered he's not zinging, he's not co it us with the useful zingers that are just throwaways zingers. This is so much pressure. I'm gonna change the subject and say I'm on your side, Steve with this internal battle. I think I think it should still be a book were we have ruled it out, and I'm gonna go to Tracy and I'm gonna have it be a whole billboard campaign around the country along highways. I think that's where this is headed. Apparently one of my buddies from high school, since he knows now that I'm working with you guys, he texted me out of the blue one for submission the other day and I was like, I don't think you sent him to me to send him to But he apparently saw somebody pulling an old food truck down the road the other day that they had camo painted, and like, you know the door that you would serve hot dogs out of was like their flip up door. Hey, what is the email where you're supposed to send your submissions? You know it's not my text message chain, Like, that's not how you send him in. It's literally fucked up. Old year stands at the meat Eaterkay, share that over. I don't know where we're at now. We've gotten four submissions. We picked our favorites. It's a good blend, and you know a lot. Here's nothing about this calendar people are going to appreciate. We've got so many that only at the last minute. Dude, it occurred to us that it could be seasonal. Like, let's say you get like an elk calendar, So February, right, it's gonna be some elk standing there and freezing ask cold, you know what I mean? And like May is gonna be an elk licking her little baby. You know, we got so many submissions that the pictures look like the time of year it's supposed to be. And when can folks by this? I don't know telling you what though, that dude Hunter, I think you should name your kids Hunter. That guy but his um contribution to layout in design m one stand per month, or is it gonna be kind of like a collage of stands everyone understand a month? Maybe the verticals. See when you get into calendar production, here we go. I want to spare details. It is the best count I think a lot of people are going to buy it, and then every year they're gonna go in and like take new things on it and stuff. I mean, you have enough to do multiple years of calendars at this point. It sounds like many submissions. We got one of a blind like someone's combine broke down and then rotted away for a century, and then they like converted it into this like that's cover image. But this is a calendar. We're not talking right. No, man, you'll buy it starting very soon to run it all through the next year. Alright. I want to ask one practical question. Do people still buy physical calendars? Okay? Don't people still buy multiple calendars if they don't be out of job? Right? Okay, listen, when this thing thems out, I need I don't care if you burn it. I need people to come out very very strong because I have battled the naysayers, I've battled the Debbie downers. This is the perfect thing to put in your office when you don't know what to hang in your office, that's the calendar. Keep going, sell I asked the same question Kevin. I said, aren't calendars maybe kind of a little bit free nowntiquated? And then Rodie Henderson says, hell no, if you got kids, you should calendar every time. I don't have kids, So maybe that's the issue. If this, If I can sell this calendar like hot cakes, you know, I don't know if Yeah, we're back now to another question about the volume of hot cakes salt. So if I can sell this calendar like the Dickens, then that pays the way for the fine arts coffee table book. People really need to help. No, no, it'll be just deer stands, the whole coffee. Come on, Daniel, people will buy a calendar anothering, but pictures deer Why not the deer stands. I just think you could branch out the book and make it a little bit more comprehensive. Well that was quick. Maybe the next one. Okay. I think the other valuable information that will be included in there, other than dates, such as interesting fun dates that will give you entertainment and joy, will be worth it. Maybe some some poetry, maybe I don't look at everything we wrote all the captions. Okay, like we got this one. It's a deer stand that honestly, that's an elevated blind. Okay, and blow it. They have it like there's a toilet rigged up below the blind. That seems excellent. Yeah, but you'd have to like you got a precision, So so the captions out or whatever. It's something like you know, like sharp shooting it. You know you're gonna ain't the only thing you need to aim out of this black whatever? I remember what it was. Do you not want to reveal it? If someone doesn't bikes, they already know, okay, yeah, you could be casting to be sales and all right, they don't do a spoiler. That's the guy who tries to get every author to reveal the ending of their buck on the podcast. That's what happens in the end. Alright, Spencer talk about the flying Garrett. Oh, then we gotta get into buying in the muscle meeting all that kind of thing. Um Like like a month ago you texted me on like a Saturday afternoon. We're like, hey, has anyone ever died from eating a fly? Garrick? Why did you want to know that because I was, Um, because we're writing this book about kids in the outdoors. Okay, this first time you're revealing this. So I've talked about it at times Outdoor Kids, Inside World. It's about engaging kids with nature. Um. And we have a big thing in there about there's quite a bit of information there about like things I've done with my kids around picking mushrooms and uh, we one time found, i mean growing a hundred yards from our house. I found a fly of garrick and they wanted to bring it home and mass with it and all that. And I was just looking at like, well, how bad is a fly of garrick? And I was surprised to see that it's that despite people thinking it's like the most dangerous mushroom in the world, it's not that dangerous, right, I was reading, like my colleges can actually find like one case when someone got killed from a fly of garrick. Yeah, most people just tripp real bad, like not in a pleasant way. And if you don't know what a fly garrick is, if we walked over the coffee shop and we asked somebody standing online, We're like, hey, draw mushroom. They would draw a fly garrick, especially they watched the Smurfs, yeah, or anything like, Yeah, it looks like your your generic stereotypical like fantasy gnome forest mushroom. Like if you picture like a gnome coming out of the woods with a mushroom, it's a fly Garret. Who I smell a T shirt? Yeah, that's yeah exactly, that's um, that's the gnome on the range spice blend um, that's the mushroom. Yeah. Yeah, that'd be good T shirt macro fructification. It just has a big fly garrick on it. Yeah, I'd wear that. I think you'd shortened the word down from save I'm printing costs. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, Like if you played Mario when Mario eats a mushroom and like get special powers, that's a fly garrick. So they're all over. Everyone knows what to fly Garrett. That's right, like the Mario brother one. Mhm, nop okay, So that's a fly garrick. Anyway, I found the instance where somebody died from one, and it was like a very big deal when it happened. It was in eighteen ninety seven. It was in Washington, d C. It was eight when you emailed me about this, you switched the numbers around. I did. I had in my head back like an Italian diplomat died. Yes. I was like, I feel like I would have heard about that, but I wasn't that old. Eight seven Washington, d C. County, count Achilles, because I was like in nineteen eight seven, I was like, I can't picture like an Italian diplomat walking down to whatever the hell the sidewalk, and yeah, this story will make a little bit more sense then I'm not. I'm back in a place in time. Washington, D C. Eighteen ninety seven, Count Achilles. Day. I don't know how to say his last name, Go for it, Vitig think that we're just gonna call him the Count. He was an Italian diplomat and he was fairly famous Washington D C. Resident. He uh was sort of in like a Lincoln's camp when when he came over, so he was prior to death. He considered himself a mushroom expert. You know he died Lincoln. Oh yeah, not the mushrooms counted killer. He considered himself a mushroom expert. Bought some wild mushrooms from the k Street market in Washington, d C. And identified them as the Caesar's mushroom, which is a choice edible in Europe. Mhm. But it's in the am and Eta family. And if you know anything about mushrooms, you know that there is a lot of bad stuff or non edible mushrooms in the am and A family. So what he thought was a Caesar's mushroom was actually a fly get the mushroom, but was peddling it, so that guy misidentified it. Yes, but unless he was selling it to kill flies, no people would us to kill. So the Count bought this mushroom, took it home and cooked it for him and a body buddy, Dr. Kelly Is who ate the mushrooms with him. He made them for breakfast, and they remarked afterwards that they were the finest mushrooms they had ever eaten. They were that good. M Now, I couldn't find how they cooked them, because I was really curious, like if he just threw him with some eggs or he must have gotten to his note, butok pretty quick. Yeah, well they're a surviving member of this story. Oh he remember, Okay, Okay, so he must have eaten it, wrote down how good it was and then died. So the Count and the doctor both ate these fly Garrick mushrooms for breakfast. By the afternoon, Dr Kelly was incoherent and stupefied. He was at work and the people I worked with him said he was like totally off. He was in and out of consciousness. They took him to the hospital. He recovered by the next day. It was like sort of your typical fly Garrick experience. If you ate too much of wanting you you went beyond the psychedelic trip, you would end up like Dr Kelly, right. But the other person to Count Uh, fell violently ill. He lost his vision. He went into a coma. At the hospital, he had such bad convulsions that he broke the bed that he was laying in. Yeah, and he died the next day. And that is like the fly Garrick death. Now here's why, like beyond him being an Italian diplomat being like one of the only deaths why this was a big deal. This inspired like a huge amateur mycology boom. Up until that point, mushroom hunting was sort of like for subsidence, like very rural folks did it, or sustenance sustenance put that into Google, okay, or it was like for the educated elite, it wasn't really a hobby. But according to like folks from that time that the middle class was growing and so was like sort of recreation like baseball and cycling was taking off in the country as well as gathering mushrooms. And when this happened, when you had a famous person die from a fly garrick, the U. S d A. Stepped in, um, a lot of like vendors changed the mushrooms they were selling. This particular vendor the K Street market. Afterwards they went to only selling shaggy manes and puff balls because they didn't want this like to happen again. Those are part of the fool proof like some people list those in the fool Proof for that's right. Yeah. Uh so this this had a huge mycology boom afterwards, and the educated folks that were really into mycology started creating all these pamphlets and very visual aids to help you be a better consumer of mushrooms. Huh yeah, I silver lining, that's right. They distributed better materials um. Like I said, it changed the mushrooms that were sold and and oddly the fly Garrick like sort of gave me like a personal renaissance with mushrooms. When we were at the Christmas party, or before the Christmas party that we were at Danielle. We went to this party talking about the one of my house. The last time he came to the office, we went to Cal's favorite dive bar in town. I think it was the Hideaway. Is that right? We're at the Hideaway Bar? And I went up to the bar in order to drink, and there was this like mid twenties guy who was on his computer typing away. In his background was a fly of Garrick. And I was like, I gotta know more, because like, you're just not casually walking around with the fly of Eric is like the background of your phone or something. Right, Yeah, I mean maybe he likes the Smurfs maybe, but I've been interested in that too. So I was like, Hey, what's up with the fly Garrick? And he's like, oh, I'm actually uh study being uh the Amida family in the Rocky Mountains. Uh. And then we we talked for like twenty minutes about mushroom. He's like, you should join the Southwest Montana Micological Association. So I did so the fly Garrick gave me like a little personal renaissance. Are you good friends of that guy? Now? You know you made his day, by the way, Like he working away on his computer and somebody was like telling me about the mushrooms screens. It was like his dream come true. Yeah, like yeah, yeah, that was it like the high point of life right there you are in Montana. It's not like you're like a lot of people pick mushrooms around here, right. I don't know that it's like more of a thing here than than other places. I believe that it is, thinks, so just it's like people are kind of more than tuned. There's places where people just aren't. There's a lot of people that are like tuned into the outdoors, right, and there's a lot of places where people don't don't feel a real strong connection to the natural. Houston, you see that on someone's computer, you're immediately going to think that they're selling psychedelics. You know, him talking about that, like those moments that trigger stuff. I was listening to saying that I was talking about the It was just historian who looks at people's attitudes towards the COVID nineteen vaccine, and he was looking at historically other things that there was like, I didn't realize this smallpox. There was an anti vax crowd on smallpox. You know, it had a huge anti movement, was um when they tried to roll out pasteurized milk mm hmm, like a lot of resistance to that, a lot of resistance to smallpox treatments. UM, And he was it was kind of interesting to hear it, putting the perspective of how people have generally replied or generally responded to things that people now like you don't even know, you know, I think there's no one questions. I don't know, why are people like not wanting a smallpox There's a lot of anti vectors and there's a um, I know, there's like a whole group in like sort of that like wellness world with like pasteurization Exactly what I was going to say, I was like, that's starting to come back like big time. Like you're seeing a lot of folks that are back in that camp of like they don't want pasteurized anything. Got it? I worked with I was profiling a livestock detective one time who uh investigated livestock theft. You know, cattle rustling. And he was in California and people were getting around pasteurized milk, and California by you'd buy a share of a cow, right because you can drink your own unpasteurized milk, you just can't sell it right. So the way the way they figured out Californias, they had this little system where I would have a cow, let's say, and I would sell ownership of the cow to people, and then they're all drinking their own milk. They own a share of the cow. Um. He started working this case and one of the things he described being pretty funny is he goes around, He gets a list of everybody that owns this cow and goes to their home and says, I'd like to see your brand inspection paperwork on the cow you own. So this was like modern cattle Russell. Yeah, yeah, I wrote about it. So he was working when I was profiling him, he was working a big Ponzi scheme, a big cattle rustling ponzi scheme that involved Keeper Sutherland, not the keeper startling stole cattle. This guy comes. So when Keeper Sull them was working on the Young Guns movies, I was hoping it was the cowboy way but okay, he was work. He got real interested in team roping and he eventually got became friend. He had a team roping partner. The team roping partner knew a guy that had a planned import Coriente Steers. Now, I think there's just too many Corientas rounding the markets flooded. But at this whatever this moment was, that we're in a let corient A Steers, that's what they use, and and like, yeah, rodeo roping. The prices got very high in these things. So this guy comes and says, uh, this guy comes for and says, hey, I got a plan. We can all make a bunch of money. I'm gonna go into Mexico and buy a bunch of corient A Steers, bring him into the U S and will lease him out to all these rodeo circuits. So he gets a he gets an initial investment, and Keeper Sultan was part of the initial investment. Dude never even goes to Mexico but just comes and and hands him the money plus his returns. Okay, so he whatever it was like, he gets like three grand or something, and then a couple days later comes and hands him back whatever the hell. Four day very quick turnaround, very quick return on investment. He'd gotten the money. He had gotten the extra money by just stealing cattle and selling them. So he rustled some steers, sold him goals. If you want to get serious to make some real money, let's do it again. Then he then he cuts a big check and then he had scans with the money. What a ski boat? If I remember right, I don't know I bought a boat. I didn't know cattle rustling was still like a career choice. I thought that, Yeah, it's usually like most at the time that I wrote my article about Um, I've optioned that thing so many times. Yeah, I thought you optioned the career path. No, my article is called Grand Theft Cattle, and people always option it from me. But no one's ever made anything out of it. But everybody thinks they're going to make like a thing about cattle rustling. Yeah, for sure, dairy cavs um a lot of a lot of rustling. It's usually like a couple of kids. If he was saying, like, if you want to look at a profile of a cattle rustler general, it's like a couple of high school kids, Um have a rodeo background. They got an uncle with a goose neck trailer, and that's most rustling. It's like small scale, but there are some big um there are some big, large scale operations, and it typically works is like you're you're doing it to get slicks like unbranded animals. You're stealing animals that have an easily manipulated brand so you can over brand it. Like let's say this isn't the case, but let's say your brand was OH, and you register Q, so you steal O branded cattle. Like let's say you own Q and your neighbor owns OH. You steal a bunch of his OH branded cattle, burn in the little mark that turns it into a queue and sell or. You steal cattle and get them into a no brand state where there's no brand inspection process, so you then move them over into that interesting world. That's why when you register a new brand now it's very complicated. Like now, when you register a new brand in some states, they make you do this. Uh, you have to do like three letters. But guys don't like it because you can't burn it with a single iron. It takes like repeated burning to get it in there. I was walking on a roll with my old neighbor in Miles City one time, and they had a you know when you have a tree planet and they have like a great around the tree two for water to come through. In Miles City, the greats are all local cattle brands. And he showed me a brand in there and he said he just sold that brand for four thousand dollars because people would prefer to buy an old brand rather than register a new one, because you can buy an old simple brand. I got this brand book from California that's bigger than the Bible, and it's all the brands in the state and each brand can be registered in like six places like front shoulder like uh, right shoulder, right rump, flank, left shoulder, left rump, left flank like Ronald Reagan's brands. In this brand book, it's a fascinating world cattle Brandon. Where was I m wolf human attacks? Oh, then we're gonna get into wolves. No, I haven't read it. I read enough to know I was titilated. Um try to get Krim to read it. She didn't read it. Spencer read it. It's a report on what is known about Is it a new report? Yeah, it's what do we know about wolves killing people from two thousand two to two thousand twenty, So the last eighteen years of wolves killing folks it identified from fiction. Spencer will do a report. Uh, you know, we should maybe put in even though it's your little book report, maybe we should put in our tailor and recall report intro. I'll just replace it with Spencer's book report. Yeah. Yeah, like Alexi's voice, Spencer's he's got a new album coming out. Um, he's the one that tipped us off. We haven't covered yet on Trout getting high on drugs. Um to cover that story at some point. So many people do drugs now that it's in the water, and Trout get addicted to drugs, it's truth. I would guarantee that Bent podcast covers at at some point too, you think so, I would imagine that's right up their alley. Trout on Math. That's my new band name. They've done Hippos on cocaine. I don't know about Trout on Matthew So okay, So wolves, like, how many people are really getting killed by wolves? Last twenty years? Eighteen years? It identified four nine human attacks from around the world. It included report from places that I didn't even know had wolves like Saudi Arabia or Israel. Saudi Arabia's wolves and like fatal killer wolves too. So yeah, huh of the four Chris, our Middle East expert, our Middle East expert, know that? Go on are they? What kind of wolf are the wolves? That's right? Of the four nine attacks from around the world in the last eighteen years, twenty six were fatal. Not only twelve of these four eighty nine took place in North America or Europe. Okay, very rare. Globally in the last eighteen years have been how many fatalities twenty six? Okay, so one point, I don't know too people globally every year get killed by wolves globally. Yeah, and you said only twelve of the attacks, not twelve of the fatalities took place the attacks North America in the last eighteen years, there have been twelve in our continent. Where are most of these happening? Spencer, I mean, that's not if it's not North American, it's not Europe like where in US and Canada. I don't think. I don't think Mexico has enough wolves anymore. You tell me any attacks there? So the US and Canton in eighteen years, twelve people got attacked by wolf. How many fatalities? I think four of those were fatal. One was kind of harrowing. You're gonna get into the harrowing one of the joggers. Uh no, so they they I don't even read it. And I found that they took some of the reports, and there's like nobody reports on wolf attacks like North America does. Like yeah, if you if you look at a wolfe attack from like Banff National Park, like you know what color shirt the person was wearing, and what they ate for breakfast, and like exactly how many stitches they got. That's our next calendar actually right behind the deer blind America. Yeah, here's January's attack from It's only gonna take us eighteen years put this calendar together, right, So like North America like heavily documents this, but then you get to like like Yemen or something like that, and it's like, oh, the shepherd grabbed the wolf by its tail and then the wolf bit it on its hand and ran away. That makes the report. Yes, Now here's here's something else to note that four eight nine were confirmed attacks, but they said they had about double that that they didn't feel like they had enough information on to be like, yes, this happened, and it was most certain a wolf, biggest dog, Yeah, exactly, yep. M hm, So you didn't find the one the jogger from Alaska? Why I pulled aside some of my favorites. One of them was from port Edward, BC, Canada. May this is your just get this straight. This is your favorite wolf attacks? My favorite wolf attacks from from this summary of like, uh yeah, of a couple of hundreds. That does sound like a book report, like when you're in middle school. My favorite. Yeah, I'm sure the ones uh in like Eastern Europe, in the Middle East and like South Asia were much better, much better wolf attacks. But like I said, it's like, oh, it bit him on the ankle and then they killed the wolf later that day or something like that. Yeah, they just don't. It's just not satisfied. Yeah. The port Edward, BC, there was a man in his seventies walking home from a party m and he got to his front door and a wolf jumped out of the bushes and attacked him. And it labeled this as a predatory attack, which is one of the most rare of wolf attacks. Was he faced was he faced. No, I didn't say that I was wondering. I had the same question. It didn't say that he was attacked, He was grabbed by the leg, he was drug off. Neighbors came over and helped him and like scared the wolf off. But then as they did like first aid on him, the wolf just hung out and just like circled him and just like wouldn't leave. He was that hungry and that unbothered. The man was in the hospital for three weeks and survived. Six wolves were killed in the area and d DNA tests confirmed that they got the one that attacked him and five others and five others. Where was that If that had happened in my neighborhood, that wolf would have got hit early on, exactly early on in the evening. Yeah, port Edward, BC. It attacked him at his on the door. Yeah, then you had North. Now why is that your favorite? Because it was one of the few that like had satisfying enough details. Yeah, then then you had North Macedonia. January fifty eight year old farmer finds a wolf in his sheep barn. The man enters the barn, grabs a wolf by his tail and tries to pull it out. The wolf then attacks him by biting his arms and face, but with the help of his wife, he gets an axe and kills the wolf. Good for him. Yeah, it's a great ending with ax with an ax. Now it doesn't like say, like what assistance his wife offers, or like who great calendar yielding the ax? Yeah, no, that's a good one. And then there was a BAMF National Park, Alberta, Canada, August. We actually covered this one. This one was heavily covered. We covered this on the mediator dot com and the guy was cool about it. We didn't talk to him, no, but I mean just other news stories I read about him. Yeah. It was a family that was camping in the middle of the night. A wolf bites its way into the tent while the family is sleeping. Father tries to fight back, but he's dragged out of the tent and neighboring campers come over. They're kicking the wolf, they're throwing rocks at it um and while the wolf is tangled up with the father, they get it off and the man lives and the wolf is killed the next day about a mile away. The middle of the night. M hm. Now the paper freak occurrence that happens now and then Yeah, I find myself now argue with people NonStop. People that have that carry pepper spray needlessly they haven't. Parents got pepper spray now because the black bears. I got pepper spray, because the mountain lions. I got pepper spray because the wolves. It's like, this is one thing that warrants pepper spray. One animal that warren'ts pepper spray. You have more chance of finding up in the hospital from your pepper spray? Did you do from a black bear or a wolf or something? In eighteen years? Twelve people? Three hundred and what now, three hundred seventeen million Americans? Plenty? How many people in Canada like another half dozen give a take roughly million and year. It's common for a year to go by with no one even getting nipped by a wolf. That number included Europe as well. What oh, yeah, are we including in North America? Twelve and and Europe? Let me find the number here again? And lord knows how many holders are in Europe. Yeah. The biggest takeaway is the wolves aren't a problem. That not No, no, wolves aren't a human risk. Sure. The biggest takeaway though, was that like, uh, wolves love garbage. So many of these reports talked about how it happened near landfill. It happened where an area where the wolf was like rating dumpsters and stuff like that. That's like a commonality no matter the continent or no matter like who got attacked, is that these things are like attracted to human waste and then some human winds up among the garbage and they're attacked. Yeah, the paper does not really take a stance on hunting. It brings up how to prevent wolf tax and it's talking about like things we could potentially do as far as management goes, and it it briefly brings up hunting, but they take like a very neutral stance. They're like, well, the pros would be that it reduces populations, it causes they learned behavior that makes wolves more shy. Uh, it slocks problematic wolves. But then at the same time you have these other biologists saying that like whatever personality eight that is that human is killing in a wolf is beneficial to the pack somehow, and it's good to have diverse populate or diverse population of personalities in a pack. And you still have a tax happening where it's legal, so it tries its best to not take a stance on hunting wolves. Meanwhile, grizzlies in three states killed multiple people every year. That's a lot. Grizzlies. Moslim in Montana and Wyman kill several people every year. What spurred this wolf thing did? For some reason because the report just came out, somebody got real freaked out of someone. He Finger send us that report, helfle finger where just half the things we talked about come from Jim Jim he sents it over. I can't keep up with all the interesting stuff that guy sends over. Uh okay, onto some a couple of meat questions. This is our segue. That was smooth. What was the other thing we wanted to talk about, Janni the glue and meat together. Tortas? What's a tortoise? That's sort of a meat question? We can make it one. A guy wrote in, like, after listening to Dr Chris Calcolm's he's our our meat scientists that we go to with meat questions on a scientific meat question level, I would not put him as an adventurous eater mm hmm, because, like you know, just what kind of goes against his training? Not an adventurous eater, though he did say, do you even hear about that blue that bison priscus, the step bison, like the thirty some thousand years old they found it in the perma frost, and uh, I wrote about that one in my Buffalo book. But anyways, that guy there's a Dale Gothrie researcher. They had a fundraiser where they cooked that thirty thousand year old bison up. What did you say? It tastes a little muddy. It's the term that food. He's used to describe things that tastes like dirt. Like they're like, I get an earthy note, You're like dirt you mean dirt? Mud? Yeah? Mud? Yeah, you mean mud. Uh. Chris Calkin says he would have eaten that, just to say he did. He would, But most things he's like, normally I love the guy to death, but normally he's like, not gonna eat it. Like, if you going to him, like what if I found a he's he's probably generally gonna He wouldn't say I'm not gonna eat it. But if you're like what if I found him? You know, he'd be like, well, here's the things you might want to consider was leans not eating he's caught cautionary Yeah, Like I was gotten a snake and found a rat inside of stomach. Can I eat it? He would be, Um, let me tell you a couple of things to think about eat that rat. That's like every health inspector, by the way, if you ask them, like what restaurants do? Would you go to eat there? Like I eat at my house across the board? Uh? Oh. So recent new research suggested that that bison, which they named Babe, they now think it was fifty years old. Still way different than thirty six month. Shoot. There's in this rock counting book there's a short section on fossils, and they cover and they're like, what's the youngest fossil? What could be? Oh, that's great? Yeah's uh, there's not a satisfying answer. There's like no definition of what a fossil really is. And so this person had an example of where they were at a museum. Where is that sentence? Again, no one knows what a fossil is. There's not really like there's like a very gray area as to what can be a fossil versus what is Because it's a long transitional process and one of the examples was that this person was in a museum where they had like a mammoth leg that was found in ice that was from like twelve thousand years ago or something, and they pull it out and one part is fossilized and just like a very traditional fossilized bone, and the other part still has rotting meat that you could smell that had like a terrible odors. And that was their example of like, because what are the odds of that? Right? Yeah, to be in the perfect place where fossilization is occurring, but also preservation on the other end. Yeah, So that was like a glimpse into sort of the randomness and in the gray area of fossils. Who's got that leg? It was in some museum, So what do they do when they have it? Do they like finish? Oh, I'm sure it's on like dry ice somewhere and it comes out. I don't want to eat it. I just want that leg to have on display, like here's here's the rotting meat portion that smells, and here's the fossil you know, like people come over, You're like showing your record collection this. Ye see that that's a fossilized half rotten half. What that is um. So I brought a great question when you eat animals eat caught in traps, which I do. So you got a beaver that is dead, um, and it's already because Chris talks about like the importance of the rigor process and how long it's been there. So let's say you set, uh, you make a beaver set and you check it forty eight hours later. And let's say the second you walk away, that beaver comes out of his den hole and you check out forty eight hours later. Here you're eating a thing that's been ungutted forty eight hours? What does that do? And you pull them out? Sometimes they won't they won't be riggored. Sometimes they will be riggored. Um, that's interesting question. I've never hesitated because I just go by the waters damn cold, because's the wintertime, right. I always thought that was that was the preservation method, that it was fine because you're doing a summer the summertime, it's stink. I had a cow elk Ones fall into a beaver pond after I shot her with an arrow, and then we found her twenty four hours after I shot her and drug her out. She's like just right on the edge, maybe even a hoof or something hanging out of the water and drug her out and got her and the guts were like ice cold. Really, Chris Calkuan's put that in his pipe smoking. I was mispronounced his name. Note does he go by Calkins cal Calkins. I'm trying to remember. I imagine it would chill faster because it's circulating water. Oh, the same way it makes you so damn cold. Ye like it's yeah, it's like Rob's heat from things. But he's saying that the cold actually can speed up. Like what is he? What is he saying that that it doesn't do what you think it would with regards to riggormortis that's the can actually adjust the way this works. He says death is pretty quick and the typically cold water could help with preservation. Here's where he hones in. Okay, Dr Chris Calkins Calkins, damn it one or the other University Nebraska c A L K I N s. He's been on the show a couple of times. Here's where Here's where his mind goes. Water in the lungs, water being a carrier of bacteria. Um. If it's stiff, it's in rigor and there has been sufficient time for bacterial migration to occur. Cold water, by the way, actually slows stiffening because it slows the metabola's metabolism. That's better because I don't even recognize that word, but because it slows the metabolism, not the metabolism, It slows the metabolism via temperature. People often think the cold should accelerate stiffening, but it doesn't work that way. If the carcass is soft and pliable, then the meat is not in rigor mortis and would be safer to eat. The risk is not zero, but then it seldom is. That sounds like a thumbs up from him. Yeah, yeah, don't eat the lungs, is what I'm hearing. That's a great question though, Man, Yeah, that is that's interesting. Uh. Usually when you use we used to call him snares, but now everybody likes to call him cable straint, a cable restraint because it sounds nicer. It's like, I'll silencers are now suppressors because they don't like actually silence thing, and so they kind of rebranded as a suppressor, which is actually more accurate. Well, snare has been rebranded as a cable restraint to make it seem like benign. I had a beaver one time. It was pretty warm weather in the spring, and I had a beaver in a cable restraint, but he got hung up in a weird way. Usually there are a lot I like you could you could relocate them with snares, like it's so it doesn't damage them. But this guy got into a weird situation and was dead on the bank and warm weather, and I thought twice and didn't take any didn't use any meat from that beaver was laying out in the hot sun. Speaking of rebranding, I'm big in the rebranding of the Snakehead Fish Camp. I feel like we need to start working on that because it's so good. Culinarily, Yeah, it's awesome, but I feel like it's not gonna get any traction as long as we keep calling its snakehead. I know those guys and and Uh we were hanging out with in the what it's the east east shore del mar Del Peninsula. They got like snakeheads stickers in the truck windows. Manya, It's delicious, but it's like the you know, the Patagonian toothfish. Like we had to switch to Chilean sea bass to get any traction on that, A lot of good it did them. They went a little too far on that one. Yeah, so we gotta land somewhere in the middle. Here. Can you explain me real quick what you were talking about when you guys were talking about, Um, I told you to stopped talking about yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, well yeah, you need to set it up because we were talking. Yeah, this a little pitch for probably next week's podcast or it's upcoming. Steve and I are interviewing Dr ed Ashby and some of his colleagues of the ed Ashby Foundation. And these guys have been studying, uh, basically arrows and broadheads and arrow lethality for the last thirty years, probably more than anybody else on the planet that I know of. And I was just reading a thing that was talking about like how much the actual like super sharpness of your broad head, you know, well, will help you kill an animal faster because the sharper it is when it makes the cut across blood vessels, if there is no rough edge, no serrated edge left behind by a less sharp or dollar edge, that makes it easy. Year for this A lot of science and here, a lot of science e terms. Basically, there's a chemical reaction that happens that immediately starts to help coagulation, and the more less sort of feathery rough edges there are, the easier it is for that to happen, to create this compound that then helps coagulation. Is that why certain cuts like just bleed like a son of a gun, like when you cut yourself with a razor blader exactly, or like a paper cut, you know, like where you're just uh So, what I was saying is that culinarily there's this this is kind of like modern gastronomy, but there's this there's this chemical it's called transglutanomas, which is colloquially called meat glue, And what it does is that it allows you to bond or bind rather protein to more protein. And so where it gets used as something like like a lamb belly, which is really really thin, and so it's really hard to cook because it's so thin, and it's texture isn't that great because it's so thin. So what you can do instead stack a whole bunch of them on top of each other and make them make the protein literally reform and create a land belly that's three or four or five or six inches thick. This is why I told you to stop, because I wanted to have you mixed this in there, right, so, and then you can well I want to tell you my thing, then you can, okay, go for it. Uh. When we would take a bear ham and cut the femur out of it so then you can slice it easy, right? Uh? My body would take gelatin from the store and sprinkle gelating all over the inside of it, and then we put you know, I got one of those funnels and the you know, the mesh, so you make like a rolled rolls like your Graham used to buy it. He'd sprinkle gelatin in there before putting it back together, thinking that it would make it that when you slice the ham, it would be less likely to just fall apart. Right, roll that into what you're talking about. Okay, So that's true or not? I don't notice a huge difference. I'll tell you why. So okay. So, with the translutantomas to make to effectively bind something, what you'll find is that if you take two smooth sided pieces of meat where they've either been sliced with something really sharp, like a very sharp knife, cutting filets of fish or something like that. They won't really stick together. It doesn't really matter how much of this stuff you put on there, they won't really stick together. And so what you quickly realize is that it's actually better to have more perforated or sort of coarsely cut pieces for them to bind together. So with like a lamb belly, for example, you'd be better off to take the skin off and kind of score it almost and then take the next one do that and invert it so they're not even, and then smush them together like compress them, and then they will stick to what we're effectively trying to do a silver skin to silver skin right exactly. And so it's like the worst case scenario, it's not gonna work. Plus there's the issue with the fact that gelatine doesn't bind at temp like and so gelatine is activated at a certain temperature, but then at a certain temperature it also de natures and so that'd be and if you want to eat your your bare ham that you you know, cure cook and then cool it under compression so still bound together, and then slice it cold, it probably would stick together. It would look like a classic like an old school French gene. But where translutanamase works is that it's not it's not creating a glue in the middle. It's literally forcing those proteins to re bind to each other as if they were growing new muscles. And so you could do that exact same thing. You could take that leg. In fact, we do this with lamb legs all the time. We'll bone them out, We'll go in, we'll sort of take out all the silver skin, open all the muscles up intentionally, kind of do it in a semi sloppy manner, and then sprinkle this translutanomase powder, which just looks like gelatine um sauces maker dot com. I don't think they sell it, but we get it from UM. We get it from a brand called Terra Spice Um that's based in Indiana, I think UM. And then you roll it back up same deal, like that, netting everything, and then we put it in a vacuum bag in vacuum it because what you need to do is like force it tight and then you let it sit for a day and it regrows the muscle fiber and then you know. The wade from Elevated Wild I was reading something he did about making bacon, and he did the same thing, but using pork fat back with some venison and then gluing them together to make bacon exactly. Remember I said it to you when we were looking at that axis deer when we were in Hawaii and we were saying like, oh, this is a really fatty deer and you we pulled off that belly and you asked me, could we could this be turned into bacon? And what I said was, if you get if we take several of them and go them together together, we could make a slab of bacon out of that. Yeah. The deer I got in Hawaii had just gobs of fat all over it. Beautiful. Some of it was really on the outer side was very waxy, but the insides it's much softer. Um So, But I think some of some of that on the inside, like the kidney fat. Yeah yeah, but that belly, I think some of that fat needs to be trimmed, probably a lot of it. But um, I'm still going to do something with it. I gotta get my hands on some of this stuff. I'll get you some. I haven't had my little funnel stuffer. I haven't used my funnel stuffer in years. Well, you can use it for anything, man, Like we use it to bind two different proteins that don't go together, so like fish with ham, for example, like things like that, so you can cook them together. Yeah, well give me that. Like what so we would take like if there's like a super lean type of fish, like halibet, for example, and we're trying to cook it in a method that we're worried he's going to dry it out, We'll use transglutanomates to effectively glue pure cork fat to the outside of it so that when we roasted it based itself as it cooks. Basically, Yeah, dude, I'm in man, think of something zippy for that, Phil I think they already did. It's meekly enough. That sounds like the new new fancy version of wrapping it in bacon. It is the new fancy version of rapping and bacon. But bacon's Bacon's just the tip of the iceberg here. You're honestly, I like it because I like using that funnel with the mash, and I still got a huge coil that mash. You know, he works like you take like smoke a pheasant and cram it through that funnel. I think it's more. This sounds more like the function of the funnel that you're really I'm looking for ways to use my phone, which sits in my I have like a closet full of meat processing equipment, what we call the meat closet. Um. Yeah, the funnels just sitting in there. Every time you're looking at it, get depressed because I haven't used them lately. But I know about my funnel. You've seen them. Yeah, Joe, you can bolt this thing to a table giant funnel. Oh, I know what you're talking about. Yeah, like, I mean, yeah, they they this is like for industrial purpose. I think I bought it at Sausage maker dot com. You know, I have a turkey breast brianing right now. Maybe I'll bring it over and just run it through your funnel to bring the funnel over there, knock the dust off. Do you want me to see if I can shotgun you some transplutantams over and get this turkey breast bound up into like one perfect publics DELI you know style turkey breast. Now we gotta make it happen. Could be a great would be a great experiment. Uh you know what, you know, I didn't mention that I wanted to mention. Um, we were talking lately about different things people use suvied wands for uh. Doctor wrote in he was over in the cadaver lab. Check this out human cadavers. They got a big tank full of cows blood, heated to temp, heated to body temp with a siouvied that they're circulating through the cadavers to keep everything fresh and limber. That does not surprise me at all. It doesn't surprise you know because in the early days, like I'm talking like lat hindies, when we first started using circulators, we had to buy all of them from labs, like the only company that made them was poly Science, and they were used for questionable things. And so the first thing you did when you got your circulator in, because they were always used, is that you basically like circulated a bath of bleach, like to get out whatever may have been inside it. Yeah, like you got the okada ever lab. Yeah, I'm sure we've gotten some blood bath circulators in my day. What do they need cown's blood for? They running it through these dead humans to keep everything limbered up. They couldn't get enough human blood well, probably like a waste of human blood to to simulate blood flow and keep them fresh. Weird. That makes me like, I want to pull my skin off. That's weird. If you do that, you're gonna wind up in that lab. You're next up for the circulator bath. Mm hmm. Cavin, where'd you grow up? Uh? In the in North Georgia, like the mountains of North Georgia. How did you wind up doing all of the top chef stuff? Did you like? Sign? No? Like by accident? Really? So? Um? They just started calling me one day at work and I thought it was a buddy of mine playing a prank on me, and they kept like, by the way, so all these guys are based in Los Angeles, and so they would call my restaurant at you know, a normal time for them, but they'd call it like eight o'clock on a Friday. We're packed and you know, someone the host would come up be like, che if you got a call, And I'm like, and I don't think I'm allowed to repeat the things that I would say to them, Um, but I'd go, you know, pick up the phone, yell a few obscenities, and hang it up. That probably made him even more interested. They called back like three days in a row, and finally on the third day, I was like, I thought it was a friend of mine playing a prank, but I was like, your prank is stupid and you're and they were like, no, this is legitimately Top Chef and I'm like, oh, yeah, you're you're that TV show like and I had never seen it before. I mean, this was I was working all the time, like I didn't have time to watch a you know, show on TV UM, and they asked me to come to this show, which I had never seen, and at first I was a dred percent against it. Um. But this is two thousand eight, and so all of a sudden, our restaurants tanked, you know, nobody had any money, nobody went out, and so we were winning all these awards left and right, and yet we couldn't pay the bills because no one was coming to dinner. And so I was dwelling on this Top Chef thing and I had decided not to go. And then one night we did zero people for dinner, and my business partner at the time was like, I think we have a month like that because of the housing market collapse. Yeah, because we're you're in fine dining like, that's what I was doing. So you're talking about, you know, meals that cost people hundreds of dollars apiece to eat, and so that dried up quick, and so he was like, look, I think we got a month of business left. You know, that's probably all we can do. Uh, And so I called the top chef people back and said, as you know, as the offer still stand, and they're like, we filmed next week, and I was like, send me the ticket, I'll go. So it was like at last ditch effort to save my restaurant. So that's how it happened, and it worked like literally the minute they announced that my participation in it, we went from nothing in the middle of the housing crisis to being booked out a year in advance, seriously, so we were doing three or four hundred people at night and it stayed that way for I mean five years, and then I sold that restaurant and went on to do others. But yeah, it was crazy that impactful. It was insane before it even started, before anybody had even seen an episode, just the word that I had been that I was participating, boom, that was a light switch. Do you find uh, most people do that are they good. What do you mean the people who compete on most people to get cast? Are they like when you go in there, are you're like, wow, man's hold on real quick? Is it a competition? Just so I know more about so it works, is that there's usually well, the amount of people per season has changed a little bit from the beginning. So I think this will make that show. Yeah, it's on season twenty right now. So I did it the first time with season six, and so I believe that if I remember correctly, we had eighteen people when we started. And each week in TV time, somebody gets sent home. In real life, that happens every few days. Um, and you whittle it down until last man standing kind of thing. And so, UM, what I will tell you, having done it multiple times now and sort of worked on the back end of it, is that when they cast the show, they are actually not just trying to cast for apparently it makes for boring TV if everybody legitimately can win. Um, it's more fun if you get three or four people who could probably win and the rest of the people are just absolute lunatics and it's just like you know, and so then it's just like you're having to deal with these people who might be psychologically unstable. So that's kind of the way they make the show in truth. So yeah, and honestly, like in the first day as a participant, you can you can tell pretty quickly like who who's legitimate, like who's going to be your oppetition, and it usually works out that way. You find the same three or four people win every single day throughout the whole time. That's just kind of and you just sort of trading blues. It's like Division one college football where you're like everybody feels a team, but there's like this handful of teams who could actually win. It kind of works that way. How how much was it, I don't know how much you can actually talk about it. You probably contract like like a phone book. I don't know, my wife's an attorney. You want to need extra and find out what I can say, Well, no, legitimate meritocracy. No, So I had a lot through personality now and I've been honestly, I'm probably not supposed to say it, but I've been so vocal for so many years about it that I don't really give a ship. But yeah, it's an absolute point of fact. I mean, all you have to do is read the end credits where it says in very small print at the very end that the decision is made by the judges in consult with the producers. So that tells you all you need to know, right, what does that? Why do they have to tell you that? Because otherwise you'd go because people constantly go, why why that guy get sent home? Like I don't understand why do he lose? Yeah, because you get like a really good personnelity. You're not gonna send him home right away, No, but you will now because now the version of Top Chef is that people get kicked off and then have a chance to fight back to get back on the show. And so that makes for another wrinkle. So sometimes you kick off one of your best people on purpose so that you can watch them like demolish the other people in this sort of secondary competition and earn their way back on. It's very TV driven. I mean the problem is that what I like to tell people because they always say like, it's but it's reality TV. It is a scripted show where the contestants have not been shown the script. Basically, the way that it works, everybody else knows what's going on. You just have no idea what remember one a few years ago. The people that write scripted reality, we're kind of suing for credit, right for sure. And that's why, like, you know, both seasons I've been don't have won an Emmy. But I don't get an Emmy because I don't count in that, you know, despite the fact that they don't win an Emy without the people who are actually like participating. After my first book, UM Scavengers Guide to Cuisine came out, I entered into like the interview process to go on what was then a new show, which was Survivor UM. They quickly in the interviews. I didn't do it because it would have made it that like I basically couldn't have gone and done a book event without their permission. Um, I could have done a radio interview without their permission. The interview comes down to like how much are you willing to play ball here? Exactly? And they put it even like this. They put it like a let's say you liked someone, would you be willing to not like them? You know? And they never went on those scenarios pretty heavily. It's the same like I mean, and I and I'm notoriously not good at playing ball, and so it's like not a surprise that I've not won the show. I've I've been I've been back for the All Star. I mean, I've been a finalist every time. I've almost won every time. But I'm not ever going to win. And I know that going into it because I'm just completely unwilling to play ball. But I also like a person who believes in like standing by your principles, like on this last season, like I got myself kicked off because I refused to allow my teammates when I was the captain of the team, allow one of them to go down, because that's not the way it works. Like if you're the captain, like you go down with the ship, Like that's how it should work, Like because as I pointed out to them, like I have real people in real life who report to me, and they need to know that their leader is someone who is going to take like the fall if something bad happens, Like you don't throw the people who are your subordinates under the ball. You're still one of the fan favorites though, yeah, yeah, And so it's like it at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter that I haven't one quote unquote, because winning is really more are a function of the people who watch the show being invested in the success of your career. It doesn't really matter whether Bravo gives you the whatever title thing, at least in my mind it doesn't. So I may have told myself that I didn't win. You get a bigger paycheck if you win, you do accept it short term money versus long term money, Like I've done just fine off of it without having without having won the actual like and plus, if you win the prize, it's actually kind of like what you're talking about, Steve. So if you win win, you have a really like unbearable contract with them for a very long time where yeah, if you write a book, they get a big chunk of it. If you you know, you do another show, they get a piece of that action. Like if you are a finalist and you win second place, they got nothing over you. And by the way, you get the same book deals in the same TV show opportunities, so you'd be better off. I mean, it's kind of the joke amongst contestants is that the real strategy is to try to is to be in every episode, make it to the end, and not win because you end up with a better long term situation. It's like how everybody who's been the runner up on American Idol has like thrived necessarily never mind, no, please, It's like that show Bachelor, Bachelor. You don't I actually want to win because you want to be the bachelor on the next one, right, Yeah, you want to be the one dating everybody. Yeah, I didn't know that. I didn't know that the degree to which second place could pay off. Yeah, exactly. First loser is chef. If you come in second place, you have more freedom's so like beyond and you still get famous. Yeah yeah, I mean honestly, you can come and like fit their sixth If people like you when you win fan Favorite, which is a secondary sort of voting, like the public votes on a competition, that's better than winning the show because six months after the show is over, no one remembers who one. They just remember who they liked. Yeah that's true. So yeah, that's how you end up taking ten photos in the montana al works like on a Sunday night with random people only, of which maybe to look Steve. My strategy has always been to to lose by a narrow margin. Kevin glass be either wins or equits because the competition is unfair. That is it, Uh that you grew up hunting fishing? Yeah, because you guys used to eat raw hearts. Yeah. Like, so the joke for years was that my dad and his brothers only had jobs because they had to that like really, all they ever really wanted to do was hunting fish. Um. And so when I was a kid, we ate a lot of game. And I didn't realize this at the time, but we ate it because we didn't have any money, and so it was like that was just like putting food on the table. So it wasn't something that was um, we didn't celebrate it in many respects, it was just you did it. Like I mean, I attribute the fact that I'm a super early riser to the fact that every single day from like middle school through high school, my dad woke me up to go hunting before going to school. So, like we would go in the morning and then he would drop me off his school. Where was this in Georgia? Um? And what kind of stuff did you guys hunting fish for? I mean, so tons of white tail obviously. Uh, my dad loves bluegill, loves them. He thinks they are literally could quote my dad the finest fish there is. We've had this debate many times. Everyone like they're good, Dad. I don't know if they're the finest fish there is. But um, you know, catfish, bluegill, white tail, some turkey, a lot of upland birds there there were a lot more back then. There were just a lot more quail. Um you could actually just you could walk aheadgerow and and you know, flush coves and shoot him. So nowadays that's really not super doable. Um. And then one of his brothers has always been, even though he's from the same place obviously, has been really enamored with western hunting his whole life. And so I started hunting with him early on and going out west and hunting, and so we would travel every year to a different state and hunt a different species. So with your dad's brought with my dad, with my uncle Billy and so, and he's still got kind of to this day my hunting partner. Um. As a matter of fact, we were supposed to hunt all sheep together um in a little less than a month in Alaska, but now I can't get so unfortunately he's going by himself, which is I'm not super keen on the fact he's getting up there in age that's going to be this might be his last to rob Uncle Billy down. Yeah, I am totally Yeah, I have this stupid hernia that I can't I can't go, do you know. I don't know if you heard. We did an interview with Kimmy Werner. She's a pretty well known spear spearfish from Hawaii, and we're talking about her early formative years and she explained that, uh, her dad's spearfish because they were broke, and she went with because he didn't have anywhere to put her. Yeah. Yeah, I mean like romanticize if she's like no the minute he wand up doing well financially, never spearfish together. Well. So I was talking to somebody a couple of days ago about pistol hunting and they have just gotten into it, and I said, oh, yeah, I grew up doing that a lot. And they were like, really pistol hunting and I was like, yeah, my dad hunted with a pistol, like almost exclusively for white tail, and they were like, wow, that's so cool. And I was like it was a function of the cast of ammunition, like uh, my dad hunted with a pistol because he had more expendable pistol ammunition than he could afford. Never hunted. I don't think my dad has ever owned a rifle that wasn't a thirty thirty, to be honest with you. And it was an inherited gun that I now have, so uh, you know, it was like that cost function like factored in really heavily. It wasn't a romantic thing. And my dad actually, at this point now because my parents were retired and are better off financially, he almost never hunts. He'll go bird hunting with me on occasion, but you know, as he says, he's like, I'm tired of like I spent too many days cold, Like I'm good now we have heat in the house. Now I'm fine, Like I'll just stay here. So it's a very different approach, Whereas I'm still very much in love with it because I think I always connected to it on a different level. But that was probably because I didn't know we were out there trying to just have food. Like how did you wind up going from those experiences into commercial cooking in a really weird path? Like? Um, though, my first job ever was at the only restaurant in my small town, which was called the Chicken Coop. So we made fried chicken and buffalo wings, um, which are still two of my favorite foods. Um. What town was Locust Grove, Georgia. There's not a single locust tree available, by the way, in case you're cure this is yet. This is a very theoretical idea, Like I think they liked that name, but I've yet to see a locus tree in that part of the country. UM. So yeah, we had this tiny little restaurant and UM. I applied for a job there and I got a job as a cook, and then about I don't know, three weeks later, I was made the manager, which is a terrible idea. Don't alot of fifteen year will be the manager of anything like I would just Yeah, this was in So I just came up with a system where I would play punk rock as loud as possible and then leave a sheet of paper on the counter that said I'm not listening, write your order down. Um. And so that's how I ran it for a while. I got fired, shockingly, um from that job. I've actually been fired for almost every job I've ever had. Um. I think we discussed this with the not playing ball part. Yeah, but uh, I did that, loved it. And then I actually went to college like the kitchen app Yeah, I just liked it. It It was like pirate ship mentality, you know. So um and then I went to college for something very different. Um, and it just wasn't my cup of tea. You know. It was like a more academic path. That's what my parents wanted for me. Again. They really wanted me to sort of break this cycle of poverty that my family has been in forever because they're all just mountain folk, you know, so that's just what they do. None of them have ever, I don't. I mean, my parents didn't graduate high school. So um. So when I was accepted to make us proud, yeah, I mean I was accepted to m I T for nuclear engineering and that was the path that I took, and so it was like, yeah, still the only person from I think my county that I grew up in that has been accepted that school. So um huh. But it just wasn't my thing. Did you have like a I don't know, like uh proclivity for nuclear engineering or well. So the way it came up was that I did a science fair project when I was in ninth grade where I was attempting to prove that you could contain nuclear fusion inside a magnetic field if you could alter the Doppler effect. So that's that's how that happened, knows Your science project was my science for a project, my ninth grade science for a project. So I cooked in school. That's all I really wanted to do. I decided that that wasn't the right path. To all my parents, I was gonna get a culinary school, um, and I thought for sure I was like going to break their heart. But my mom was Actually, my mom was really cool. She said that she was glad that I've realized what I was meant to do in my life. Um, before I had wasted a great deal of it doing something else. And that's what. And then I just moved into the food world. And then that was it, like and it was like, honestly, the food I grew up with, like the super southern cooking, didn't really factor into my stuff in the early days. It was much more than like really meticulous, methodical fine dining that I learned working. It wasn't actually until the first season of Top Cheft that kind of came back because when you show up for Top Chef, you can't bring any recipes. Um. You have no access to books or magazines or the Internet or anything, so you have to remember everything and so you're you're just thrown to the wolves kind of except the killer wolves um and uh not yeah yeah, not the soft wolves like the bad ones um. And so you just have to cook from instinct. And all of a sudden, all this food that I started cooking on the show looked nothing like what I did professionally, and it was all this sort of modernized version of southern like home style. So yeah, for sure, like everyone thought that was my signature style of cooking, but I didn't know it was my signature style until I was there. Just what came to mind, just what I thought of when they went you have two minutes to come up with something, and it was like, OK, I'll make this, And then that's what happened. And so I came home from that and kind of completely remade my career. And that's why now people think of me as that, like, you know, that southern guy, when really none of my literally none of my professional training is in that at all. That's just the food I had as a kid. Are there culinary schools that teach Southern cooking, Well, there's nowadays. Like Southern food kind of hit a renaissance in like the mid two thousands where it was like people really got excited about it and you started seeing you know, fancy Southern places popping up in Manhattan and then Los Angeles and stuff, and so there were chefs who really sort of clung to that modern Southern as their style as they're kind of like you would say, I I do Italian food. People say I do modern Southern, Like I've never said that. I don't. I just American, Like I don't know, Like it's because I don't really that's not how I think of the way that I cook, Like I think everything is. I get to like, I like using the word American cuisine because in my mind, American cuisine, because of how diverse our country is, means that you're inspired by a lot of different food. You know, you don't have to pigeon hole yourself into a singular sort of you know, a particular vernacular, whereas if you said I make Roman food, like it's got some pretty strong walls around that statement. That means something very particular. So I like the more nebulous idea of American cookery. But yeah, I guess I think I get labeled modern Southern, and I don't mind that. I mean, I consider what we do pretty modern, and my restaurants are in the South, So I suppose that makes sense. What what Like, I know it, but I don't know it like I know in my I can imagine if I can't articulate it. What makes Southern food southern? Oh man, this is a whole separate podcast here. Um, did you know you know? Uh, we haven't talked with us in forever. But there's a really great This guy wrote this piece about what makes Southern literature Southern literature, Like when Southern literature became a thing and people would study Southern literature, and how hard it was to define like who's a Southern writer or not. He came up with this thing that if you read it and you can find a dead mule, it's southern. Ye seems fair. And he goes through the whole canon of Southern literature of things that like all the scholars and academics would like, when you take Southern literature, you study Southern literature, he goes through the whole canyon. There's always a dead mule. Every Faulkner book has a dead mule. There's always a dead mule, Court McCarthy because you know, he was writing from the South, while like always a dead mule, Faultner, always a dead mule, must be where I like those guys. Yeah, it's amazing, man, you go through. It's like a very good way to tell. But in Southern cooking, well it's a dead mule, no, And it's and honestly like dead pig. Yeah exactly, there you go. Um. Yeah, Southern cooking is interesting because it's a super microregional like style of cooking. So like it's really hard to lump everything in the South is being the same because you know, the food in Texas is completely different than the food where I'm from. The food in Louisiana's different teas right exactly, And most Texans don't, but people who don't live and who don't live in that part of the country absolutely lump Texas in because they think of they think of like everything that was in the Confederacy and that's the South, you know, So that's kind of the way people define it. But in reality, even in my home state, there's two distinctive styles of food. There's the Appalachian cookery and there's the low country cookery, and they couldn't be anymore different from each other. And so you know, um, so, so you guys are at the tail So you grew up near like the tail end of the Appalachian Trail kind of yeah, yeah, exactly, Like the tail end of the Appalachian Trail is like, god, I don't know, maybe ten miles from where my grandparents house was or something like. So yeah, and that cooking is different than coastal for sure. Yeah, because like where I'm from, like that Appalachian style cookery. Clay Nucom and I were talking about this the other day, like over slack. We were just chatting back and forth about it and like understanding it's like the only thing that made your day better for those people was the food they were eating. And so I think that the style of the food was always meant to be incredibly satisfying because it was kind of like that was the high point of the day. But you had to spend a lot of work transforming really pedestrian ingredients into things that were really crave able. And delicious, and so I think that's why the style is the way that it is. You know, you see the utilization of meat products in almost everything, but not a lot of meat. You don't actually eat a lot of meat in the South. That's another sort of missing and that's interesting man, like um, flavoring things with or like having like pork belly and with yeah, exactly, like taking collars yet taking collars and having like a little meatingness to the exactly exactly, because you were working with largely what you could. It's subsistence, you know, So it's what could you grow or trade your neighbor for For the most part, I don't think pork and beans in the Southern. But it's yeah, well you're integrating it in in a satisfying way without needing volume. Yeah, exactly exactly. And so it's like, you know, when I grew up as a kid, like my grandmother, my granny, she cooked for the family, like the whole family like um, So my dad and all of his brothers all live on like sort of the same piece of land that surrounds my grandparents house, and so we ate breakfast, lunch, and dinner at my granny's house. Seven days a week, and it's like thirty thirty five of us give or take the eight there every single day. And she did all of the cooking, and so all the food either came from this big garden, which we I mean, we called it a garden, but it was a hundred yard by fifty yard field, so it's really big. Um. Everybody contributed to helping plant and harvest it and pick and do all that kind of stuff. Um. And then she did all the cooking. And then like the meat that we got, for the most part, we would either it was either game and you know in fish that my dad and his brothers got, or with a neighbor who had pigs and then somebody had cattle. I don't know who it was, but we would I think we just trade and that's how we ended up with it. And so um. And so we had a lot more vegetables than meat, but meat was in every Like you there's some sort of meat product in almost everything, and it's usually they're just for flavor. Really, it's also there, as my granny pointed out, for calories, like because they would they were short on food a lot of the time, and so a really way to get the calorie count up really fast. You know, if all you have is you know, turnips or root bakers or something like that was to throw fat back into it when you cooked him so that the calorie count got up, you know, so that people didn't starve to death, because that was a real shoe in the mountains for a long time. With your restaurants, now do you do uh? I know you just said you're like, you don't think of it as Southern food, but would someone You know, if someone went down to see sort of your signature dishes from the North, where they be like, oh, it's Southern food. Well, I think it depends on which restaurant they went to, so I have I have five of them in Atlanta. If they went to gun Show, I don't know that they would recognize it as Southern because it's so it's it's a it's just a lot, like there's a lot going on there. But if you went to Revival, it is southern. It is like literally the the handwritten cookbooks of my two grandmothers translated into a restaurant format. So absolutely you would recognize that as Southern, and you would have dishes that maybe you hadn't had before you didn't think of like one that we're famous for in the spring, um dill grows wild all over that area, and so you know, the first early spring peace with tons of dial and I'm like tons and tons and people eat that and they go like, oh, that doesn't that's not Southern food. And you're like, it's very southern. It's just not what you're thinking of. You think of fried chicken and macaroni and cheese. Macaroni and cheese isn't Southern. It's probably Midwestern. I think they would argue. Um, you know, food historians wise, fried chicken you could argue is Southern because it is originates in Scotland and came over with Scottish immigrants, much of whom we're clearly that's when you look at me, that's you know, that's the stock we're from here. Um. But Southern cooking in many respects looks more like Italian food because it's really driven by seasonality, hyper seasonality, hyper locality. And then um, you know, recipes being ultra flexible because you would never even if this thing says that it has tomatoes in it, you're not putting tomatoes in it if you don't have tomatoes in your garden, like you would just move on and do something different, or you'd modify it, and that that feels to me, having cooked all over the world, that feels a lot more like when you're cooking in Italy where they go, yeah, I know this says Borlotti beans, but we don't have Borlotti beans right now, so we're not going to go buy crappy ones to make it. We're gonna do it with this thing instead. Yeah, do you apply your science project mind to your cooking? Totally? And but in an almost unknown way. It happens all the time at work that someone will do something and they'll be like, I don't know why we got this result. And then I show up with like my invisible glasses and I like, here, here's whatitch going on like and then I give them like the science diet tribe on it um, without realizing that that the thing is I don't really like science e food. Um. It's a weird dichotomy. I like to completely understand what's taking place from a scientific level, but I think that if you cook that way, you make really lousy food. What's the word for like the you know, what is the discipline of the all the foam's modern gastronomy or molecular molecular destronomy into that. No. I mean though I just told you about transplutanomates, which comes directly from that world. You know, I think that some of those things, in my mind, they're all just another tool in the toolbox, you know What's like it's nice to have, you know, vacuum steelers these days, and emerging circulators. They're used for certain things. But my opinion is that if you conceptualize your food around the utilization of those things, you make some really cold and sterile things. If you, on the other hand, that's an interesting point like that, if you cook from a very soulful place where you feel a personal connection to everything that you make, but then can apply technique so that it's a better version of that that that usually produces pretty good results. Mm hmm. Yeah, man, that's a good point. I mean, you can deply that across the board to so many disciplines in this world. I mean, it's like it's the it's the people who nerd out on the hunting forums about all the technicalities of this, that and the other than the science behind things. But they've never bothered to like sit quietly in the woods and like try to sort of figure out what's going on around them, you know, I said, they're still lousy at hunting. Yeah, it's like reading the poems that you commings man, right, He's like he's not gonna use any upper cases or any punctuation ever, even if it would be used. He was like a modern souvid guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like that. So what you're gonna you're working with us now a little bit? Yeah, why I was bored, I basically begged him. Yeah, talking about how you guys met, So Danielle, you kind of you kind of track them down. Yes, I'm working on a show for YouTube. It's a cooking show for Meat Eater, and it's a show that's basically wanting to explore different places in the US and different chefs who have um a very unique perspective chefs, right, yeah, Yeah, all of them are professional chefs and someone who has a unique perspective and a direct experience with what they're doing in the outdoors and with cooking and how that relates to each other. So I wanted to sort of tell the stories of who those chefs are, what it is that they're doing, um hunting, fishing, and then um, sort of the culture around that, because I think that's another part of something that we haven't really tapped a lot into with Meat Eater UM, is that there is definitely a culture surrounding the food. And like Kevin's story, it's not just that he grew up in Georgia hunting quail subsist subsistence hunting, but it's it's a huge part of the identity of what Georgia is. Um, there's a great conservation story there. I just think there was just a lot of it all wrapped up into one thing. So so yeah, I um uh messaged Kevin on Instagram like I want to do this cooking show and highlight you in Georgia and do some quail hunting. Um, that's kind of how it started. Yeah, Like so I followed Daniel. I think we followed each other on social media and it just that's how it came about. Yeah, it's precious. Tell everybody your Instagram handle Daniel Danielle p R E W E T T if you want to follower and be on her cook and show. I was super creative of mine as well. Chef Kevin Gillespie so that I wasn't confused with whatever other Kevin Gillespie somewhere. Yeah, I think there actually is a really famous, like comic book artist who has that same name. I've been because people constantly asked me about my drawings and I'm like, no, no, you don't want to see my drawings. Yeah, So I reached out and we filmed an episode in Georgia and I got to know him more and like them, Like I knew that we wanted. I wanted to like do more with you in regards to meat Eater, but like you kept saying like you're ready for this next chapter, and I'm like, I know what that next chapter is going to be. I've seen the future. Yeah, And then I went back talked to Katie and Tracy because like, we need to get this guy on board with me. Eater. Well, yeah, the timing was definitely fortuitous because I definitely was ready to sort of take the next step. You know, Um, some people know as some people don't, but I am a cancer survivor and um, when I went through all of that, which was only three years ago, I had to basically completely overhaul my company because I was an extremely hands on operator. But then I obviously couldn't be there and so made a lot of promotions and sort of restructured the organization entirely. And when I came back, I found that a Everything was great, like people did an amazing job, and b that they didn't need me there all the time, like they needed me there too to coach and mentor and to lead in in some aspects, but they didn't need me actually physically in the restaurant working on the line or you know, washing dishes or talking to guests or whatever the case. You think it would have been bad form for you to come back anyway and be like I'm back, Oh totally yeah. I mean it also exactly you know those promotions never mind bay cuts. Um. It was honestly, it was terrifying I had to do it in the first place, but then it turned out to be like the best thing that I've ever done, Like it was, and it frankly, it made me have this moment where I realized that in my career people have done that for me, Like the guys I've worked for have taken a step back. You know, when when you're twenty five, you think they just they want me to do all the work. It's like it's my turn, like it's it's your turn. So it was my turn to let other people succeed and grow. And that's really all I care about at this point is trying to build these teams and watch people succeed. And so I knew that I had the ability, the time, frankly, to do something else. And it's like some people said, like why Kevin, just like you have you know, you don't have to work that hard anymore. You could just stay at home and like, you know, you literally can just do whatever you want and you know, collect collect money when it comes in from the restaurants. But that's just not my that's not my personality. So I wanted to do something else. I wanted to challenge and this seemed challenging. So um now said Danielle reached out, and um this conversation started and it was totally unexpected. But I'm very excited to be here doing it because it also allows me to not just the creating of food around sort of wild game and fish and stuff like that. That is that's something I'm uber passionate about because I think a lot of chefs are I think actually most chefs are really passionate about that because we're all looking for the best ingredient constantly. That's the secret, you know, how do you make great food while you start with great stuff, Like if you start with mediocre stuff, you mediocre food. And so I don't think that part is much of a departure. But trying to find a way to bring more people into the fold who have never been a hunter, who have never fished, who have never stepped outside barely, how can we get them to buy in and believe in this world? I think maybe through food. I think that path is probably something that is going to allow us to convert a lot more people. And so that's what Danielle and I are working on now, is trying to find new opportunities where we can get these people over to sort of our side, to recognize that the hunting is always been about the food man like and it's like and it's special, and so that's that's what we're gonna do. So explain the Danielle, when we met, you were doing um like you're sort of the world you created was wild and whole. Uh, explain that to people, like, like how you came up with that and what you're doing with it now. Um, you know, it kind of came not my choice or people talked me into creating a blog, but really, I I didn't come into hunting. I'm married a hunter, was telling we were talking about stories and Hawaii, how we met our spouses, And the first day I went on with Travis, he took me to a gun range to shoot. He was studying in his rifle, and so the second day he cooked me his backstraps and I remember, yeah, he was being a methodical man. Yeah. Yeah, It's it's funny because I mean I didn't grow up hunting, and so that was the first time I've had Actually my dad was a hunter, so I had had venison before. Um, so yeah, I just remember like he was like this is really special. Like he made a big deal about like this is really special. It's not just like I just bought a steak from the store and I'm cooking it for you. Like I remember him making a big deal about it. And I was just like I just didn't really get it. But anyway, like we kept dating and that involved and we got married and he was bringing home food all the time, and I was fascinated with it because I had started cooking, working at UM these cooking classes, and I graduated with a degree in apparel design, and I wanted to go to culinary school, and so I was like doing these cooking classes, and I just thought Wild Game was fascinating, purely for the fact when you were leading cooking classes, UM, I was working. I started dishwashing. By the end of it, I was teaching a little bit. I'm sorry, I mean like, not, you're not taking the cooking classes, but you're oh, yeah, yeah, I was working. Yeah, I was working in them. Anyway, I thought it was fascinating. I wanted to go to culinary school, but I thought wild Game was interesting because you kind of had this chance to work with something new every time. It's not like when you go to the grocery store you know exactly what you were expecting something because it's so standardized. Is It was just fascinating to me. And then UM we moved to North Dakota, and that was what really changed my life. And we realized that we could like hunt and fish all year round all the time, so much public land access, and that's what we did. And so the more and more time I spent in the field, the more I got to sort of connect with the food and it became something way bigger, and I had this aha moment that food is not just about calories or about like things that taste good. It. I finally realized that there was a meaning behind it. And I think I think everybody goes through that at some point in life, discovering that food carries a lot of meaning. UM. And so I decided I was also like learning a lot about our food sustainability reading Michael Pollen stuff, and I was just kind of had this moment of Travis, I don't want to buy me anymore at the grocery store. So you're we're either going to like be vegetarians or we're already hunting, Like that's just really obvious rout we're gonna take. And so for him, it was like full permission, like hunt any any day you want, Like there's no no um obligations at home, Like if you want to go hunting one weekend, go hunting, I'm like making him go hunt and I would go with them, UM so that we can have enough meat to last is through the year. And so we started doing that about nine years ago. UM of only UM eating meat that we've shot or fished for. And so my friends were like, that's crazy that you do that, you should start a blog. And so that's what Wild and Hole started as it was just sort of this creative outlet to sort of x floor what it meant to eat consciously. That's really what it was about for me, was was what does it mean? What does it mean to like take responsibility for your food? What does it mean to like know that this animal that you're hunting all the things that had like are required to make this habitat healthy? And and I suddenly cared about conservation in a way that I had never cared about before. Um. And so that's really what Wild and Hole started at and and it's sort of evolved over the years. Um but by the time this episode launches, we will be um creating a new website for Wild and Hole. I'm sort of looking at hunting and fishing as one way that you can connect with your food or have a responsible responsibility, but also all the other avenues that go into that. For a long time, yeah, so I've I've gotten the garden bug, as probably everybody has past year, but um so so wild the whole is sort of like kind of being reinvigorated with a new life. We have a handful of contributors picked out that are going to be writing for us. UM. We've got like a regenerative rancher from Alberta, UM, some foragers UM bree Van Scodder and um Wade from Elevated wild UM. And then so sweep by some gardening content and then we'll be doing some stuff um like raising animals, chickens for eggs, UM, caring for honey bees, sort of that whole thing. So it's it's sort of expanding into a bigger picture of of food and our relationship with food, UM, the way that we see it, the way that we value it, and the effects on the environment. UM. So it's it's definitely more yeah, driven by food and of course recipes you should have Yanni. Do you should commission a piece of Yanni called ship that will kill your chickens? We could just have corner column like and then you got your skunks. I can't raise chickens right now, but I've been wanting to get chickens really bad. My I'm I'm moving. I'm in Houston right now, and we're moving to a small, really small town out in the country outside of San Antonio, and like part of this move was like we just want to get a few acres, have a little bit more space. And the whole point was like I can finally have my chickens, and our subdivision has a h o A won't let me have chickens. But those rules, those rules are falling. Those rules are falling like flies. Man. Yeah, I'm just people revolting against it. I mean I asked for forgiveness and not think you should like my h o A not where I currently live, had apparently how to rule about not being able to clean deer from a street sign, which I didn't know about. So say it again, not clean deer, can't hang deer from st sign? Yeah, but it's like a perfect height. Like so I was like, how else am I supposed to clean this deer? And they're like, not not in the subdivision. My brother up an Anchorage. They feel like he was there when they made it. He could have chickens in your yard right in the city, you know, downtown Anchorage, and he had all these chickens run around and uh, he had a fence in the yard, like a big high wooden fence around his whole yard, so his chickens just roamed around and um, one day one of his bodies is out walking his dog and this body runs into another body and they agree to go get a beer, and it brings up the question like what do we do with the dog? Oh my god, So they go to my brother's house and he's not They just opened the gate and let the dog in without really thinking about it, like there like detained the dog in his fence, and um, he was out of town. He comes home and he comes home. His chickens are all lined up dead on his porch, you know, like they laid them all out all nice because they didn't know what to do. But ye have that dog out in there and just annihilated them. Yeah, they kind of made him look nice and stamped. We were we were at the disc golf course and um, it's like in the middle of the city and out of nowhere, our dog comes up to us with a chicken in its mouth, and we're like crap. And I like walking around like is this anybody's chicken? Like no, And I'm like, well, I just will eat it because so I like opened up the crop and I could see it was full of meal worms. So I'm like this thing like just escaped its coup. It was a silky chicken, which if you've ever plucked a silky chicken, their meat is black and their skin is dark bluish black. Yeah, it is good. It's a delicacy in China. Yeah, it's it's very expensive to buy. Insist. So I have a nice plucked blue silky chicken in my freezer. It's gonna be my farewell meal when I leave from the park. I never I've never done chickens. Uh, when you go down and buy them right, like can you pay extra and get ones that you know are females? Is there some deal like this? Like you buy them and you know there's gonna be some roosters mixed in. It's just a mixed bag. You don't know. I don't think they can be sex well, you can know there there's there's these experts to can sext them. Yeah, but I don't think. I think when you go down to the old you know, farm feed, so you really don't know if you buy chicks, so what do you do? You kill them all? Eat the roosters. My brother, the same brother, I didn't realize this. He got a bat he went and got a batch, and it was all said and done. Every one of them was a rooster he gave. He had me kill one of them. She's eating a bunch of capin's, like just my kids. It was one of his kids took a shine too. But it started like like every day you wake up and here's some new one crowing crow. Yeah, so just one started crowing. I took it home and cooked it for my kids, And then next day here's a not a one crown, and pretty soon they got done killing everybody that crowed zero chickens. Yeah, it's funny too. We went through it one time. I want to say it was with when we had some bantams for a little while, which were basically just a little miniature chickens, and there was a procession like that because for whatever reason that they're packing order, I guess you'd be like, oh, well, we just have one rooster left. You know, nobody else is crowing. Take him out. The next morning you're like, hold on, what was that. You go down there, and sure enough, So and so's bowed up and no longer is a hen anymore, but it's turned into a rooster and it's crowing. His head off, you know what. That's what Aber and Matthews talking about with wild turkeys. Know, when you get a power jake, like when Jake starts strutting Goblin, he says, it's usually because there's been a serious interruption in their social hierarchy, and they come into it docile, like, don't do that, man, you get your you know someone's gonna beat your ask if you do that. But then you know, as season goes on, they're kind of like, you know, I haven't seen that guy around. It usually beats me up when I do anything aggressive, and then they start getting full of themselves and start being like acting like the man. You know it will successfully breed. Uh. I had one more chicken quick, Oh, I got an article for wild and Hole that someone needs to do. You get Chris Calkins involved at Colkins. Get him involved in it, those guys, because every every time I'm talking to chicken people, it seems like there's a question about what do you do with the ones that like the ones that get killed by this, the roosters that you gotta kill. It would be um chicken everything chicken egg people need to know about eating their chickens. Oh, because they don't know how to like clean it. Well, it's like can you do this? And can you do that? And how should you cook a little ship and chicken that just started crowing and you gotta go kill him? The dog killed one. Be like all because this is for like very entry level people who don't have a lot of blood on their hands, right, So you'd lay out for them all the things they need to know about eating, all the how to make the best of all the death that goes on in egg raising. I could write. I could write that article all the different life stages of chicken, like what you do with him? Every chicken person I talked to you, most of the things they talk about is things that happened to their chickens. One of the other guy saw about they had a tree fall on is. I don't want to get into his name, but the guy that had a tree crushed his truck. He says, this guy lives downtown. He's like, fox got my chickens. I'm like, no, it didn't. Like it's probably chiop a cobra. So he puts out a trail cam and students downtown man, some fox, Downtown bowlsman. Yeah, some fox. I don't feel like that's a stretch. I thought it was. There's like a hundred bucks walking around downtown. I gave him. I gave him some kyote lure and he put the that out and uh, he said that stuff could melt glass, you know. But he had pictures of it coming up to smell it. And that's what he's got anyways, even like that. So now he's got dead chickens laying around going to waste. I think people throw them in the garbage can. That's really sad. I take a chicken home from the park. There you go. So I'm talking about the article. Whatever. We haven't an aversion at our house too, for eating, Like when we had a fox, you know, platter a bunch of them. No, no no, no, no, we don't mind eating them, like if you just go and kill him. But like when you find him laying around and there was this like stress incident maybe or whatever, and then the fox, you know, ravaged him. I don't think you feed a tomingous. I guess that's a good question, is could you contract anything if like an animal like a rodent had been chewing or eating? Don't ask This sounds like a collaborative effort here, So we need Danielle to talk about raising chickens. We need y need to talk about what kills your chickens. We need Chris awagh in on how dangerous it is to eat a chicken. When you do the article, you should interview Yanni about how he doesn't want to eat the fox killed chicken. I would eat him in a second, and then I'll jump in and tell you what to do with the chicken based on how old it is. I was going to eat a tomato is gonna be like a New Yorker length article exactly? I was saying I was going to eat a tomato that a possum had already eaten half of it. I was just gonna eat the other half. My husband told me that was gross. That might be pushing it, don't I kind of disagree with your husband ought to respected you more. Did you watch it eat the other half? Or were you just like, no, you weren't like tomade jerk. No, it was the first. It was a black crim It was the first heirloom that was coming in. Gner got it. You guys call them graanners down there sometimes. I got that from Doug during We didn't call him grenners. Have I have some good postums story. We have a lot of postums, and cook those possums up. No, do you know that the old old old Joy of cooking m You know, they are always revamping it. It all kind of went ship when they started putting couz cuse recipes in there. But in the old days, the Joy of cooking head instructions about how to catch a possum, what to feed it in captivity, and then what the how to cook it? That wasn't would like that book, that old Joy cook. It'd be like you're supposed to take like, I don't know what the hell you know? How to fatten it on oatmeal? Is that the real example that they feeded oatmeal? It was like you do you feed it like a mash, like a grain or something. It was all enjoy cooking man, how to how to handle the possum, fatten it? Up to this day, I haven't eaten one. I I used to catch soul many possums fox trapping. I just didn't like them. Remember one time we're all the snow and my old man had shot a buck and never couldn't find a shot was bow and didn't find it till way later and cut the took the head offs. You wanted to get stuffed anyway. And we were and my brother were out rabbit hunt and we went and took a look at that deer. This is in the wintertime, and there's like a hole kind of eating through the deer. And I looked down in that hole and there's a grinner living in there. I remember hauling out by his tail and taking a picture of you know, this is probably December. I guess I have a thing of like you are what you eat eat. So as much as I look like there's a wide array of wild game that I love to eat, but like I don't know what all they're eating. If it's questionable what they're eating, I don't want to eat it. If you laid out in your garden long enough a possum to eat you eat me. Oh dude, they'll eat That's why I don't want to eat. My wife subscribes to that same plan, because we had like a squirrel issue and so I just I was like, well, I'm going to deal with it the way that we did as a kid. So I just started shooting all the squirrels in our yard tree squirrels. Yeah, And I was like getting ready to cook him up for dinner, and she was like the grill and I was like, yeah, squirrels digging and trash eating trash, So I won't eat squirrels inside. Yeah. I don't know, man. I mean you know bears I like. I like bear meat, bears, hoodles. The hogs are the same way. I still like hog meat, but they'll eat some weird stuff. Yeah, everything everything. Uh, one last question for you, Daniel, Um, you're not a back out of donating that dog to the Mediator auction house? The oddities are you? Well? I can't now tell people about that dog. It's a Girlsian Streimer. What is it called Deutsch jot heart? So I've got a Deutsch strat hard. His name is z which um these dogs talking about how to name the kid. You have to name it based on the number of litter. So litter one is a let you have to with an A. If it's the second litter out of that kennel, it's gotten have a name that starts with the B and three. And this is a rule for all dogs or that it would be like Abigail, Annie Apple Arthur. Yeah, whose rule is it? The drought harder communities. I mean you can exactly. I mean maybe that's just required. It's definitely required on paper, but you don't have to stick with it. You can call it whatever you want. And this is the first litter. Now, is the first litter that comes from the bitch or the first litter that comes from thee from the kennel? Oh? No, no, from the kennel. I think I don't think so, even if you're if you have multiple breeding dogs, like yeah, if I have a kennel and I have two bitches, one has on her fourth litter and one is only on her second, it's I think it would still be six because it's the kennels litter. I think someone's probably going to write in them about that. We're going to get a lot of email. Community is going to be like would be like I call him like Zeke and zebulon and stuff. And so we got Z from the Z litter. His real name is Zesu, but we just call Z. Seriously, you have a Z litter dog? Yeah? Where they hire a Yeah, yeah, you gotta start three dogs anyway, So we've got what I think is a special dog keep part of the drought hart Um in order to be registered as a German um Deutsch drotart is that you have to go through these test um tests to be able to breed them. And so like they have this puppy test. It's within a year old. It's based on natural ability alone. So they will do um pointing tracking um like with rabbit tracks. We did a lot of drags. But but the puppy test is just pure natural ability. They just want to know what that puppy it was like, just has innate inside of him. They don't they don't even care like can your dogs sit? They don't care what you've trained them. They just want to know what that dog can do, because then you can start trading around with breeding with other people with like specifically honing in on their nose or specifically on on a different characteristics of dogs. So the point is to better the breed and not water it down. Um. So z we we went through his puppy tests. He got like an eight nine, which to you guys, but these numbers don't mean anything. But he p plus No, it was one of the best in the nations. In fact, that year he tied. Only one other dog got that score. But it's a very or seventy nine whatever. Yeah, he kicked ass and he took him to an arm brewster, which is like a national um. It's a different v G p um that it does have some training involved, and they do like a live They'll put like a live duck in the water and they have to find they don't see it in the water, and then the duck swims in like the reeds and they have to find the duck um And then you do all these like drags. Have you had them duke it out with a raccoon and a barrel? Yeah, that's part of the test is they have to dispass either a fox or a raccoon, and you have to have a witness. Dude, you're you are going to you just you just did something. You're gonna regret doing what you have opened up worms. Man, You're gonna get blown up. I for what Because there's people that know that that's true, and there's people that want to hide that that's true. You're going to hear it from the people that want to hide that that's true. Not if you're a drawn our owner a rabbit hole on this whole thing. Yeah, before before Ron was like stage five and the whole thing. Well, they're gonna come after you bad. I'm okay with that anyway, I'll just release release the draught r on them. No. Um. So anyway, he's a he's a great dog. So he's having his first pup. Um. We just bred them like a week ago. Um, and she's pregnant now she should be Okay. Here's here's where I get really interested. Let's say all these dogs but one die, all the puppies but one die. Are we still having the auction? Yes? Because as a as a stud fee, you get pick of the litter, So I get the first puppy, even if everybody's dead. Yeah. So the other guys that that'll be interested to try that and to have that be tested in court. I'm sure it happens. Um No, because I think everybody else it's like you get the second pick, you get the third when you put your deposit in. It's kind of a first come first or so you get like, um, there, I think four puppies so far spoken for outside of mine. So if the if the if she has a litter of five or six or seven, then we can sell more because you're providing the stud It's sort of like understood that you come in and you get your pick first. Well, you either take money or you get the puppy. I can I can choose. I can choose if I want to accept a stud fee and then somebody else gets the pick of the litter. But you chose, Yeah, I chose pick of the litter. Do you do you have a right to watch? Do you have a right to be? Like? I want my pick of the litter as agreed upon, and then I want like another one, Like I want to come out of this with two Yeah, but I would pay for the second one, but you don't. But also you don't pick that second one early? Right? Um? I guess she had put in her deposit first. Yeah, if I'm the first one, yeah, but the one you're going to donate to these oddities? Yeah? Um, how are you so you're not trying to come out of this with a dog? No, I don't need a puppy right now? Okay, now I understand doing this for you guys, like this is gonna be big time pick of the litter. And I say pick of the litter, it really just means like, whoever wants this dog, first of all, they need to I would highly encourage them to like already be very well aware of what this breed of dog is. Um well, I'll say, like the reason we fell in love with this breed is they are a versatile hunting dog. But unlike a GSP that's just sort of wired. He comes in the house and it turns it off. Chill German Shorthair pointer. He's like very chill and very calm in the house, just a lovable dog. But when he is outside in the field, it's like this, it's like a machine, like it's he's a machine, like something clicks and he's just like not blood thirsty. You're make it him sound like he's like this killer. He depends on whether or not. And then you say that as if it's like a bad thing. It's just no combination by part. I just hear stories. There's there's stories. Test they fail, they just then turn into a German war. Not everybody has to go through the test. You you go through the test if if you just want to go through it with your dog, if you are planning on hunting the dog a lot. It helps the dog become a better hunting dog. But if you got through it and you fail or whatever, nothing happens. I mean, you can't breathe the dog. You can't breed them. Could you breed them as a German wire or you can because that's an a case, so this is a German breed. What would be the monetary value of this puppy? So nobody short She's gonna put in a minimum bid? Many dog? Maybe? Well, Danielle is still in a lot of red tape, bought all the red tape. Um, it is a minimum because that's how much all the other puppies are being sold for. And so if somebody, if it went for less than auction, then I'll just there's somebody in line wanting that puppy for hundreds, So that's what we'll do. Well the red tape, you gotta come get it, um. Yeah, So right now because of COVID, you can't fly the dog anywhere. Lot of times with with this you can just ship the dog to where you're at. But because of COVID, you can't fly with the dog. So you probably have to come to get it. And that's in North Dakota, not in Texas, North Dakota. Minimum you gotta pick it up, and it got all the paperwork. Yeah, does that person, we'd like them too, But they don't have to just let Spencers take it off the table and they'll have to go through all this auction stuff. I'll set the minimum bid, and I think I say pick of the litter. It's really what like I think most reputable breeders will do, is they watch these puppies as they start growing up, and they can start to tell differences in their qualities. And if you're a guy that's looking for like this certain type of dog, this is the dog for you. If you're looking for something else, this is the dog for you. So it's it's not like I feel like the pick of the litter is kind of a cheesy term. But yeah, if you took it and showed at pictures of house cats and watch how it responded, they're all going to have a scuffle with a house cat. So that's another red day. You probably shouldn't have a housecat you deeply love. Oh Spencer, you're out this cat lady. I think I think you can because like Bart George, you wouldn't believe it. He's got at least two I think house cats lion kill a house bowl of hounds. And when Mingus has stayed over there recently a couple of times. It's just like we kind of talked to Mangus and he's like, yeah, don't let him because that cat will f up your dog. And I'm like really, and so we kind of talked to Mingus and yeah, after a couple of passed buys, Manx is like, I'm not messing with Bart's lion hounds. Like, but that cat they live in the house. Yeah, they live in the house. Us with it. What do you say to Mingus when you're like laying out what's going on to say, no, okay, yeah there. My kid's dog was like, not like a genius dog, but I gotta where. I gotta where. It's not animal school. That dog knows not touching animal skull. It just knows because early from the day it came over, I'm like no, and now it's like say, yeah, I get it, I get it. I actually had to give up like an access dear rug in my house to my dog because he was so obsessed with it's like his rug. Now, yeah, it's his Like from I am surprised that we've somehow our dogs know the difference between well obviously taxter, I mean they don't they have no interest in any tax that smells like chemicals and stuff. Yeah, and then we have like this shelf of just sheds that like we don't want them to touch that. But I've started picking up little sheds and I give out to him and they know the difference somehow. I don't know how. Yeah. Yeah, my kids dog is the same thing. If it finds antler out in the yard, little chew it. There's no way in hell to chew an antler inside the house. Yeah, maybe my dogs aren't that smart. I had a life size have a life size mountain goat mount and it was in the house for a little bit, like I had to bring it inside before I transported it, and my dog like lost his mind about this animal. Like he would just circle it and be like what is this thing? Like for hours on end. You'd be like, where's Jonah And You're like, oh, he's in there, like like staring at the mountain goat. Yeah, my dog right now is uh um three D target. I took it off the box. The dog is not relaxed in the yard. It's like it's like a little mini elk one, you know, and thinks since that thing has been the yard. A dog is just like eyeballs. It walks around and sneaks up on it. It's just waiting to do something. It's like at that point in time, that thing is gonna think he's gonna beat my ass. All right, man? So uh finished my thoughts. The dogs coming stay tuned should be the first thing we auction off. Well, it's so I think the duration of the pregnancy is sixty days and then there's eight weeks until you can take the puppy home. So I don't know if you want to wait to like put it on auction until the puppy is born and we know how many there are? Can you need? Are? Oh? Yeah? D some bids off sense he's gonna wat, he's gonna see them cute poppy, and you really don't want like a new born photo. You want like a four week photo that they're so cute because they're born with little beards. Is like a little Benjamin Button furniture. Well, because here's the thing too, is the he's like a cat lady. But I think it's his wife's cats. Am I wrong? That's right? He this might all be part of his plan. No, I have no idea that that kind of dog was hard on cats. No one told me that, And all of a sudden, you're not a can't lead all right, every bay, thanks for joining. Stay tuned for meeting or cooks. Yep. Daniel show in hopefully October, and hopefully before then we'll get down to the Maybe not sometime around then we'll get down to auction and just puppy off. Yeah, look at it before that, take care of all you can't problems. Okay, thanks for joining,

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