00:00:08 Speaker 1: This is me eat podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening don't eat podcast. You can't predict anything presented by first light. Go farther, stay longer. Alright, eighty body joined today by none other than the cat Lady Spencer new Heart. And the other cat lady is cat Lady Buddy said, sat the flip flap, flush your more, got it? That's great. Two cat ladies build the engineer Karan Brody's got no cat never will you don't even? Yeah, cat lady, but you specially don't. You don't need to act like a cat lady. No, Brodie's eyes in a not cat snuggling mood. I used to scrape barn cats off the highway now and then back when I was a kid. That's about his tossing the ditch. Okay, was that like a professional. We had We had courses and there's a lot of bar bar cats. Your own barn cat. Yeah, I could tell you some cast stories to curl your hair, man, but I could too. Yeah I won't, I'd wind up. I don't know. It won't be good. Um Oh, first, okay, we're gonna plead to there's the thing. I gotta plead because there's there's a I'm in a professional predicament. We have been talking since last December about we were gonna do a fine art coffee table book. It was a joke. It wasn't a fine art coffee table book. Left up Old deer Stands, Okay, funked up Old deer Stands his name of the book. It's gonna be a fine art coffee table book for meat eater. And so we were gonna go and get like our own camera guys, our own photographers. We just encounter crazy tree stands and you know, kind of rotten, dangerous whatever like crazy tree stands. So we started talking about how we're gonna do this book, and we opened up a thing for submissions, and how many do we have? So far, one thousand, three seventy people have sent in submissions. I have been getting a ton of pushback in snyde commentary from the people that work at this company about this project. Oh big time. There is a people are very very very incredulous project. Everything about it, Everything about it, how's it tied to what we're doing? On? Man? Telling you what, dude, when this thing it's gonna be a calendar. It's not gonna be two. It's gonna be a calendar. It could be a two if your kids are what your plug your kid's ears. It's called funked up old deer stands. We have some of the we just got. It's amazing what's out there. We got a great one recently of an a t M machine, an a t I'm not king an a t M cash machine on a stand, but where you can sit in the a t M machine. Yeah, like where are you like the screen hole literally on the top of it, says cash machine. Yeah, we're talking like you know those like plastic stackable chairs like you like in Mexico and you go to like a eat a taco, like the Coca Cola whatever, one of those lashed up to a tree, limb way up in a tree for the plank that you like, apparently walk out the plank and then get in the plastic chair lashed up in the tree. I hope he's near Alan Lazare's Hospa said have you bagged up? There's a big trampoline underneath it. So no, it's it's a great project. It's gonna be a calendar. They'll be a cover. I need people when it's time. I need you to be ready to buy this thing so that I can be proven to be right. But then we're only going to use twelve out of there's always like if if people can get my back on this and buy this calendar, whether they want it or not, as a Christmas present, then the book will come. But I need people to get on board with it's the greatest collection ever. Funked Up Old Deer stands in existence, and then we'll do funked Up Old Duck Hunting Blinds after that. In votes, yeah, fulbes so in production, like in production is a thing where like met Eater, the show, the TV show Metator, if you look at all our stuff, it's always s r M E, so it's like Steven Elli meater. And if you're like packing a Pelican case for a camera, you put like sr M E blank number, and that's sort of our thing. This project is funds fo U d s, so internally we call it funds. What I was laughing about is a fund is a guy. A fund I always gonna keuse of being a fund. A fund is an Elmer fund. Why him, I don't know, but a fund is if you if you're like relationship to firearms is around hunting weapons, and you sort of make the mistake of thinking that like the Second Amendment, like is like meant to protect people with hunting guns or whatever. That's like your view on it. You become a fund and that's a that's a per that's a pejorative. You don't want to be a fund. But now I'm not a fund. You're taking it back. Well, no, I'm not a fun because someone just set me. I haven't picked it up yet, but I'll have a R. So I'm just like a right wing nut. Now people call me right wing. I'll be no longer fun. Now I'm a right wing nut job. You can out call people funds. Yeah, Seth was already right wing nut job. He's at a R the whole time I knowing him, so he now I would be like, yeah, Seth, he's always like, I don't want to hang out with Steve. He's a fun fun Now I mean, Seth aren't gonna hang out with other people because they're funds and we're right wing nut jobs. Brody Layout, the Arizona Trail camp ban, this is this is ah, this is interesting yeah, first date to ban the use of trail cameras, trail cameras for the purpose of taking or aiding in the take of wildlife, basically saying banned year round, yes, like full on bands starting private and public Yes, yes, January on. That is like a way way I didn't know until right now. That is a very extreme version of this. Yeah, other states have banned drones and trail cameras at certain times of the year on public land and stuff like that, but this is the full the full on. It's like you can't ever have them out even months before the season to what about the movement? What about for like surveillance like personal security and stuff like I don't even know if they've like figured that part of it out, like you know, but they're saying year round because states do public land up until the season starts, or they do. You can have the kind that you have to pull a card, but you can't leave the kind out that transmits a message right or private land only. But that is really because that's like the most trail cam and state in the Union, man. I mean, they're following those big Kai bad bucks around all year long. And yeah, I got friends to talk about that they're they're sitting there hunt. One time in Arizona, they washed the mulder come into a watering hole at dusk and they said it must have been twenty cameras went off at a water hole. Yeah, like you come in and like people, you all, everybody's got everybody keeps their cameras around the water holes. And in addition to the unfair advantage that they did mention that these things have caused some like conflict between people because everyone's trying to get a picture of the same buck, right, you know, if if someone knows about it or what you know, a big bull whatever. Um. But the public public comments, But the public opposed the band by roughly a two to one margin. But the five person commission, five to nothing remoted against. Yeah, what the I wonder what they're looking at that made them so sure? Says trail cameras violate fair chase, which you know, there's an argument to be made there, Like I can see the argument. Yeah, you do well, and I know from talking to you know, and well i'll tell you right now, I have sitting on the desk in my garage ready to go, which I'm gonna place this weekend. A trail camera, yeah, which I'm fixing to put out in the woods. Yeah, I mean we've talked about it before. You're sitting at home, you get a little notification on your phone, Big Larry just walked by your stand. You drive out there and jump in the stand, you know, or just just knowing what's going on when you're not there. There's there's an argument to be made that I used mine for just general animal looking though. Yeah. Yeah, like I I saw something on It's probably Instagram or something the other day where a guy left a trail camera out in the mountains for an entire year and had like thirty thousand images that he was sifting through, and yeah, it'd just be cool to see what's walking around out there. I put one behind my fish shack one time, and like right behind it, there's a little gang sholder's eyes, deer and bear on it, and uh, my buddy's wife went back there and pe he pulled the card. Never gave me the card, but then uh, I gotta have just wipe that card and give it to me. Then uh, I left it there for a year and it was cool because it'd be like bear deer bared deer, but there's like this dough. It was just there all the time, and you see, uh, also she's got her fawn. It's but a little you multiple pictures over every day. You know, what's kind of sad man. I can't remember what month it was, but later in the summer, just back to being by herself or something happen to it. The thing that's cool too is um like a lot of discoveries are made via these trail cameras by people who aren't necessarily trying to find a wolverine where a wolverine never was. Or Yeah, there's a book. I've plugged this book a couple of times. It's called Candid Creatures or something like that, and it's a book about how trail cams they called camera like camera, I'll just called camera traps, just called trail cams. The way that trail cams have rewritten a lot of our understanding of animal distribution. There's an amazing picture in there, and I think it maybe I think it was captured in Arizona. Is the only known picture of a jaguar standing in the snow. That's awesome and came off a trail cam. But imagine if this happened in Wisconsin or Iowa, I think it would turn the white tail hunting industry like upside down or something like that happens. Oh, if that spreads, it's gonna cause a real reckoning. Uh like if that sentiment. But it's surprisingly that came out of Arizona because I know that in the white tail dominated states is so big. But um, I feel like like trail camp maybe trail camp uses like very prevalent, and maybe it's because it's just gotten, you know. And and the other thing about Arizona is like just it being dry. Is it Arizona, Colorado. It's Arizona, Arizona, Colorado. One thing that Arizona doesn't have is it doesn't have um like the enormous herds that you have in the North. It's just like there's kind of like you know, like you just look at the tag allocation process, there's like Arizona doesn't have a lot. There's not a lot of like over the counter um big game hunting opportunities. Like it's a pretty there's a somewhat competitive atmosphere to getting permits. There's a competitive atmosphere in these certain hunt units. Yeah, competitive atmosphere for outfitters to get the hunter that drew the tag, you know, because they don't have they don't have like massive elk herds like you find in the North, you know, but they have massive elk and they have some massive mulder like something. You know, they got just some giants. Man, it's you know, it's managing that way. It's managed like pretty conservatively. But huh, I gotta think about that for a day or two to draw it to get an opinion about it. I assumed it meant that you had to pull it once hunting season started full on. Well, but couldn't you argue if it's out in June that you're not using it for the taking of game? But yeah, I mean I don't think they've sure you could be going putting it out to take pictures of birds. Right, I'll talk about that a little bit. More's gonna be joined later by I got two people coming on, Annie Bolton, who's a dude that we just filmed in Hawaii with we uh if? Again referring to Instagram, I put some pictures on Instagram from when Cal and I were out spear fishing and hunting in Hawaii. Uh While I was out there, he had had this he was sick. While we were there, went through all the normal things like, oh, he must have COVID. Now it doesn't sound like COVID. Anyways, by the time we got home back to back to uh Montana here he had found out that he had contracted AU from from eating raw game meat. He had contracted uh, toxo plasmosis, right, is that the right word we're talking And they were also gonna be joined by by our resident doctor Dr. Alan Zaro was gonna lay out one up with taxo plasmosis. Recent episode called Hunting and Chains, we had on the author and professor Scott Guiltner who authored a book Hunting and Fishing in the New South. And then we're talking about, you know a lot about slavery, the hunting practices of slaves. And I had pointed out in that conversation about how during that at the time the Lewis and Clark expedition um they had like a hundred hundred people roughly, they had a slave with him name York. One slave they brought along, one guy not on payroll, and uh, he had had like interesting experiences along the way, no doubt. And I was pointing out that afterward, Clark liberated him, emancipated him, game is, granted him his own freedom. One of our contributors, Ben Long wrote, into those, uh A bit more complicated than that. So Clark had received York as a present as a child, so like you might nowadays give you a kid, I don't know, a fit bit. Back then he'd be like, here's a human being's yours to do it as you please. And he kept this human being um as his as his possession, and eventually brought him with him. Um brought York his his property on the expedition, and had, upon returning from the West, had said to York that he was gonna free him, give him his freedom, but he repeatedly reneged. York one time pressed him on the deal, being like, hey, remember how you were going to give you my freedom? And Clark punished him by separating him from his wife and threatening to literally sell him down the river to a hostile slaver in New Orleans. So when you hear the expression he sold me down the river, what that means is I don't I don't know how accurate is. But when you hear the expression um, what it means is that it would be that the further down in the Mississippi you got, the further into the Deep South, you got the the the um treatment of slaves worsen. So if you were like in Missouri, you know, I think Twain talks about this affair bit like if you were in Missouri, um to get sold down the river, as that you'd be sold to a new owner deeper into the South where it was worse. So threatened to sell him down to a hostile slaver in New Orleans. Clark beat York severely for being soul in an insolent in eight o nine, So five years after, I expecially saying it was ten years, he got his freedom ten years later. Stephen Ambrose, who kind of wrote one of the you know, I guess the modern days definitive history of the Lewis and Clark expedition, said quote, much of the evil of slavery is encapsulated by this little story. This guy's talking spencer telling people what your idea is. I would love for us to have a Lewis and Clark expert on the pod cast, but Steve Is has pushed back every time I bring it up. Mm hmm. Why is that A couple of things. What I'm saying earlier, I think it's like a big government. Okay, you got little cruise, Okay. John Coulter was with the Lewis and Clark expedition. Okay, as they're coming back down the river, they almost get the they almost get to St. Louis, this harrowing years long trip, and everyone was like, oh, I can't wait to go home. John Colter runs into some trappers going back up the river and turns around, doesn't even go to St. Louis, turns around, goes back up the river. That's the kind of guy I'm interested in. But I'm interested in the little bands of mountain men in that era. But like the not to hack on government at all, but like a hundred guys edicts from the president. It's just it's like, to me, it's not the kind of swash buckling, rugged individual entrepreneurialism that inspires me, but those sorts of fellas that you, like, you've covered dozens of times over by now and still having given even a thirty minutes segment of a podcast Lewis and Clark, Okay, they Steve's gonna sum it up right here. Let me tell you the interesting things about it. Okay. That on there to do list was to see if there's wooly mammoth's Do you know that's true? Okay, that's interesting. Um the only tribe they got to shootout with was are you asking me? Mm hmmm, Sue. They got to shootout with the black Feet, killed the black Feet warrior. Uh. They had an air rifle on that expedition. That's not interesting to me. My kid, my eleven year old is perked right up right now. The mention of air rivals. Okay, uh, yeah, they would get it out to impress people. Yea. They had a repeating air rifle with like a compressor. There's various parts about that are interesting. Have you been to Pompey's Pillar. You can see Clark's name carving in the rod for the longest time. They said it was the only like physical evidence of the expedition. Yeah, and that's that's like another plus. We're doing a Lewis and Clark episode. Those guys touched like fifteen to twenty states, so there's like a lot of school children that have some connection to Lewis and Clark. My favorite part about the story is Clark's suicide. Mm hm which is only way later. Why is that your favorite part? Because just how crazy you went he was kind of that night was a nut. It was a crazy night, the night he killed himself. Yeah, you should say it from when we have the expert on the show. Well if he doesn't know about that part, oh they will, you think, so that's wildly known. We can we can play a little good cop bad cop when you have this expert on and you can like be like a mountain men And I'd be like, yeah, yeah, but this thing, I'll tell you another in another party, like about Lewis and Clark expedition. As they found they were at a jump site, like a buffalo jump site, and the wolves were so gorged on meat from under the jump site. One of those two, Lewis or Clark uh killed one with some kind of trek and pole. Like Yanni, it sounds like you're talking yourself into it here, guy rode in. He was talking. We were talking about finding Morrell's by a dumpster the dumpster patch. There's a guy staying he's living in his camper for a few months and he was parked at his friend's large shop that had RV hookups and sewage and whatnot says one day he walked out to empty the black tank and lo and behold five morral's growing in a cluster of the game decaying leaves that had collected under the sewer line. Think about that? Would you eat those? No? No morales are like ecosystems, sponge ees. That's why, like or like any mushroom in general, Like, there's there's a lot of good mushroom picking to be had in highway ditches, but those highway ditches are also sprayed with chemicals. So I wouldn't recommend that you, like take home a bag of shaggy main mushrooms that you found at some intersection out in the country. Why because they probably got dallas with some chemicals. That's not gonna be what kills you. I don't know. You're not gonna find so many shaggy main mushrooms over the course of such a long period time that you get enough toxins from herbicides to kill you. This is also kind of specific to shaggy mane because they grow in like disturbed aty like soccer field. There's images of them of shaggy man's pushing up through asphalt. Whoa like you know where the asphalt kind of peters out, and this says it has been a sloppy job pushing up most great mushroom way cool tastes like a sparag I just probably wouldn't take went home from like a soccer field or a dog park, or a sewage line or that. What do you have eaten? The morales found near the dumpster? Listen the dumpster morales weren't like they just happen to buy the dumpster. It was like, yeah, you don't think they were. They were like, you know, like feeding off of whatever had like you know, coincidental leaked into the ground. How many yards are there for that dumpster? Ten? It was this coincidental? Would you eat the sewage morales? Not that we've talked about it? Yes, Are you honestly like a sewage morale? You like, are you honestly is there ship like in those morales? Oh? I don't know. It would be hard to hard to eat now think about was there not pooping? Yeah? But like I don't, I don't know, I don't know how Like are morels do they work like a plant in other words, where they're sucking stuff up in like are they using nutrients from the ship, like if you're spreading manure on the field, or they actually like, well is there's gonna be ship particles in it. It doesn't uptake, does uptake like it takes new It would uptake a plant would uptake nutrients from the dukey, yes, not not like yeah, but it's like that's everything. It's uptaking nutrients from dead stuff. With the way Spencer made it sound like ecosystems being seish, it makes it sound like I found a squeeze the morale out. It be like a bunch of ships. Spencer's confusing clams and morels. No morales. Also, they like to uh, they like to grow where they're stressed out at. So maybe there's something in that sewage line that really stressed him out that like how they come up after a burn. Yeah, I never heard it describe that when it's interesting. Yeah, they were like like like a tree dying right like the trigger. Yeah, because the fruit we better get out of here. Maybe there was something in that sewage line that that stressed him out to get him to grow. Have you ever heard the word macro fructation? No, that's a that's a mushroom. It's like I might be pronouncing it wrong, but like you know, the underground structure is the mycelium. When it throws a like it's fruiting body, I believe it is a macro fructation. So it's like some fact check. It's like I'm about to die. I better reproduce there, you get out of here. M hm. I don't think it's that simple, which I can see happening. If someone told me you're gonna die tomorrow, you're gonna go repopulation, I'd go all that fishing course. I feel like I'm gonna take off early from work today. I just got some terrible news. Head up to the lake. You're like, I I got, I'm gonna join that wall. I turned. Are you? Are you finding my word? Macro fructation? Dude, we'll does that have to trust you? Mac row fructation turns to frustration. Yeah, I'm getting micro fracture. Why bones you know? As I'm looking at it here the word I'm saying, I don't even think it's a word. If we can't find anything, we can't prove you wrong. So how would I make up a word like that? You can't even get it too, Like you can't get where someone like misspelled something online. O, man, I would not listen to me. Um, that's really embarrassing. Yeah, it's it's like one of the few things you can type into your computer and get zero hits. You're not kidding. I got zero hits when I typed in hard. Yeah, I must be thinking of something different. I might be thinking of absolutely nothing. I feel like you can slam your fist down your keyboard and get results in whatever you just tried. You guys, if anyone out there's mind reading, and if you need to name a movie or a book and you don't want to have to do any legal you don't want to do legal work into I P and you're not stealing anything, call it macro froctation. You will have you will dominate search any of the types of that word, and we'll find your book and you can make it mean whatever you want. Yeah, it's like that's a great thing for a whole media enterprise. You can probably get macro froctation dot com right now for like nothing. No one's squatting on that that you are l Why don't we slap that on a T shirt? And so I think, Yeah, I learned about macro Froctation from the met Eater podcast. Yeah, I think that we should started get a shirt, says macro Froctation. I'm gonna, man, I'm definitely gonna uh uh. And I like how when you were introducing that word, you like, you ever heard of this? I don't know, to blow your mind? You said no, I'm like, what idiot a macro fructations? God? Man, I must have been reading the Old Book, Old wrong Book. Uh. A friend of ours and in a listener to the show, Josh Coots wrote in something that uh, I was interesting. So he used to work at a guess ranch in Montana and he was the only hunter among the guest service staff folks, so any questions that people had about hunting would always be directed to him. On one occasion, he meets a guy from Colorado, a gas from Colorado who had just completed Hunting Guide School, and Josh has this guy told him something he'll never forget. He said in Hunting Guide School there was a portion of the curriculum designed to teach guides how to pack dead human bodies out of the woods. Apparently this is Josh talking. There was such a high rate of heart attacks monks out of shape. Guided elk hunters at the Guide School developed protocols on how to get the bodies out of the woods most efficiently. The technique he described as brilliantly simple. I'm curious if any of you have heard of this or something similar. Okay, while the guy's fresh dead, so let me you want to know. Should I stout now? I think please continue, because the level of detail here is they don't wait till don't wait fresh dead before rigger sets in. You drape the recently dead body over a large downed log so that the dead person's belly is on the log, leaving the legs and arms hanging down approximately the same distance on both sides of the log. Like picture you're watching the Western and a guy comes in to collect the bounty. How he's got him tied up there like that? You then wait till the body goes into rigor and you have a couple of guys lifted up and set it on a horse saddle with the belly in the saddle. Then you tie the wrist of the ankles underneath the horse's belly. Makes for easy packing, he said. I suppose this could be considered a hot tip that's like really like molding the body, you know, yeah, or did they train you up in that? I can't say that's anything I've ever heard of. But again, like the level of detail is so weird and it almost has to be true, right, Like, but the concerning thing is how many bodies were they dealing with to like develop this system. Well, way back in a long ago episode that we recorded in Arizona, um is either an Arizona or Sonora, I can't remember. Um, we had a guy that a mountain lion biologist. Well, there's a houndsmen that we're working with, a mountain laon biologist, and someone got a negligent just charged a negligent It's like I'm having a flexicle. They got a negligent spencer. What I pause, you say, say it negligent discharge of a tranquilizer gun, got shot by his own tranquilizer gun, killed him or just knocked him out. He got up so bad, he was in bad shape. The story went where he got shot, I'm trying. The story went that he had they tranked a lion and he and they don't want you don't want the lion to fall out of the tree and get hurt, and the lion fell asleep up in the tree, so he's going up to fetch it and then lower it down. And also he realized that it's not trained, so someone's gonna send up loaded tranquil as they're going on a rope. But the way they tied the thing or whatever, soon as he put pressure on it, the thing shot him. He gets on out of the tree and then he's just gone. Meanwhile, the mountain lions up there just laughing his ass off, and they packed him out on a mule. They didn't know what to do. Well, that makes sense. I mean, it's not that the packing out thing doesn't make sense. It's just all the little steps that they developed to like get the body in a certain position and before rigor and but they're packing up a certain way. And the other part about the story that could be is like it might be that it's not like he's looking at the curriculum. Okay, you know it's like Tuesday, eight day on breakfast, right and then like at noon, you know, how to trust off a person. It might be like that they're whatever. They're sitting there having sandals, having lunch, and some guys like I'll tell you what. I had a guy die one time, and here's what I did. By God, that's the way to do if that happens you. So they might be like that, not that, Um, what's on the schedule today? Yeah, Chapter three, Section four. So it could be it was just conveyed like that. Corey Calkins who works here at me either he was a guide. How many former guides around here? Many too many Minnesotans, too many former guides, A lot of guys. He was a big game guide in fishing guy, he said before I start. So this Corey calkinstand before he worked for him the outfit he guided for in the Bob Marshall Wilderness area, they had to pack out a guy who died of a heart attack in his sleep. They rolled him up like a banana and a man te tarp and top packed him for ten miles. Said they did not wait for rigor to set in. He said, was just like packing out a large wall tent or a fourteen foot and rs raft. Talk about details. My friend ron Um got on his marine radio, picked up a Mayda one time like an s OS and went there in a commercial fishing vessel had sunk where at at the mouth of at the mouth of Sand Bay out in Clarence straight in Alaska, went out there and found the body of the fisherman and got him up on his landing craft and rolled him up in a tarp. And he had a guy with him that was very uneasy about. Didn't want to like it, was uneasy about being on the boat with that man. Later Ron went and found that man's um, you know, went through the work of trying to find and contact that man's widow and give back, give her back some of this dude's possessions. They have rolled him up and Tark took him to town. She's Corey said he else had another fellow died from dehydration. Oh yeah, almost lost another fellow from dehydration. Blacked out and fell off his horse. Barely able to revive him because they didn't have much water on hand. We draped him over the lap of another mounted guide and they quickly trotted a quarter m out to the nearest stream he came to, and they called life flight to get his ass out of the wilderness. They kept the show rolling and the guy was released from the hospital the next day. Yanni someone asked Johnny the question he says, I never heard of it. The only heart attack we had. The guy survived and we drove him out of the woods on a TV. That old guy like no, no, no no, no, no, no, wait till he dies and get a log. All right, Now back to uh, toxoplasmosis, the latest wild game eating disease that can happen to you. And to cover off on toxoplasmosis, we're gonna we're talking about tricking noses from it, just because they sound very similar. And then we're gonna talk to Danny Bolton, our survivor, a toxico survivor, and then we're gonna get some analysis from our resident physician, Dr Allen Lazara, who you'll remember from our podcast episode Bleeding Out. And by our account so far, this is just people calling in to admit it that episode to save four human lives. Four people have said that they after listening to that, we're in a situation where they had to apply a tourniquet and in the back of their head was like, that's right there, guy, I was just talking about that, And they did the tourniquet in the right place, right pressure, saved lives. So he's a hero, an American hero coming right up in a minute. Here, we're gonna talk about the hottest new disease. To get the hottest new um wild game disease all the cool kids got. I want to get toxo plasmosis. I don't know how. I like, I went a million years that I ever hear in the toxoplasm It's like hip now toxoplasmosis, tox tox Yeah, like Mike Rule, like someone and his family got tangled up with toxo plasmoses. I think it's just related to people um eating more raw stuff all the time. I don't know when I was a kid knowing got it? Is that? Or like Spencer having a million cats? You get it from cats? Yeah, I would say it's less cool if you get it from like a litter box. Is the same thing as cat scratch fever, isn't it? I think so? Dr Lazara is toxoplasmosis the same thing as cat scratch fever. It's not. You're gonna embarrass me. I believe cat scratches pastorrell I gotta look that up, but not the same thing scratch. That's also a nu jit song, right, Oh yeah, I'm singing it right now, dud. That song is one of the greatest man Why haven't we used that on the podot No, it's no, it's no stranglehold hold on like the second best song. I gotta get in your toxico plasmos. It's according to the Male Clinic, don't tell us about toxoplasm. Most of you've got a whole bunch of experts here. Yeah, let's talk about about talking about you talking about hold on, listen up. It's a Bartonella infection. Bordadella pertussis. That's whooping cough. Bartonella is cat scratch fever. It's a back here that you get from having your skin scratch or you can even be exposed to their they're dander in some ways too so, but usually it's a scratch you get on your arm, you get limph nodes up your arm um, and you get like a cellulitis. Spencer is not Spencer shaking his head like he doesn't buy it, Okay, Steve. Steve is the one that threw this whole thing off. I'm looking at the Male Clinics website here. Why don't you just go to new just website? Now, listen up, toxoplasmosa is usually occurs by eating undercooked, contaminated meat, exposure from infected cat feces, or mother to child transmission during pregnancy. So this is the cat litter disease. That's why my body, that's why toxoplasmosis was such a big deal to my body is because I think that his his wife got it wild pregnant. Yeah, they caused a big scare. Yeah, no cats around pregnant women. You guys didn't get that. The doctor didn't say, do you have a cat in the house? Man, So it's not cat scratch fever? Stroke mind, okay, cat litter fever. And so this one is so it's not so cool anymore. You like those cats, don't. Spencer is definitely gonna get it at some point. It's got a cat, but he doesn't. The cat guy says, the closet cat. Someone was asking, once you have trick and this is the old fashioned thing you get once you have trick a nosis, Can you now consume rare bear meat with outside effects? They point out bears and ligons do yeah to recap um. Uh. Trickon nosis is a it's like a It's why your grandmas was worried about cooking pork to what you know well done. Nothing's born with trick. Aosis like trickin nosis is past from animal to animal by eating infected meat. And there's these little cysts in the meat. And when you eat the meat, your stomach acids dissolved that the shell of that cyst, and it liberates this little larva that's living inside there. And at larva, larvae, multiple larvae. How do you say that? Larvae? Larvae they make love in your stomach and produce legions of themselves and those burn go like out of your digestive track into your bloodstream, scoot through your blood stream and then and then burrow through the vascular walls and get into your muscle tissue and then set a trap for the next thing that eats it. Uh, we had that one time. That's not a lot of fun. Uh when I say we like a handful of us. No one in this room though, right? No? Yeah. I even had a shirt made trick, pause it said. But then someone pointed out that there's a venereal disease people call trick too, So I never wore that shirt. Now I noticed on Instagram you said you smoked your bear sausage to one fifty. But doesn't the f D a like change. The FDA changed their own rules and now if you do suvied now it has to do with length of time. You could do one thirty five and the suvie if you hold it for X number hours. So I did. I did one fifty, but held it. My life's in your hands, Steve. I just ate like seven slices ye were, Yeah, it's it's Germaine because we just were eating black Bear of summer sausage. Turned out good, though so delicious, did thirty pounds of it? Good Smoke flavor did thirty pounds. Uh didn't two batches and one of the batches you could have had a batche that went to one sixty because I got distracted on one of them and let it go to one sixty. But yeah, that's all changed. Clay Knukelem gonna give you earful about that. So we went to We had an epidemiologist on quite a long time ago. Do you remember the name of that episode of KRIN. I highly advised people to go listen to it. We covered them dickens out of um food and pathogens covered the dickens sicker than Hell episode tim slide, So can you get it again? He goes on to say some normal stuff that everybody knows. How now it's quite rare and commercially raised pork. Trick nose is very rare and commercially raised pork in the US. The condition is still encountered in North America through other meats, especially game, potentially from imported pork. I remember reading that of the trick and noses cases in this country are black bear m when I was when I had it, I was registered with the CDC because it's the CDC reportable disease. So I had to have a CDC representative come to my house I had. They took a little chunk of my bear meat larva per Graham or ounce or something like that. Geez, yeah, they took it to a lab in Atlanta. Well, it's funny. I think I've told this. I'm can tell again. My brother was getting married and he and you know how you have the pre dinner for the wedding party. We were doing an all wild game, like what's that dinner called pot luck? No at a wedding when the wedding party comes for the dinner. Now, so I smoked one of this bears hams for the rehearsal dinner. But I smoked it plenty safe and I told my brother, like, turns out the bear ham I made that bear has larva program. I remember realizing whatever it was, it had a half million per pound, which you could assume most bears happened. Well, and I saw a thing one time in two counties in Montana where they were doing a study. One of the bears over six years of age carry trick nosis. He said, well, don't tell anybody that, And I said, well, I can't not tell him, And he said that don't bring it because you could turn everybody off to the whole deal. This was a potlock. It sounds like it's a wild game dinner. Um. So it goes on to say reinfection challenges are probably not done anywhere, the rationale being that anyone making the mistake of becoming infected with trick and Nella parasites once would not be likely to make the same mistake a second time. So the vaccination is being investigated as a means to acquire immunity. Yeah, you could go get vaccinated and to start eating rare bear meat. You know, it makes it makes you think about your potential exposure watching all those uh what's that Instagram page? You like when you see deer eating dead stuff, squirrels eating dead rabbits, Like, your potential exposure is probably more than it's got to eat something that ate meat. They had a case in a lask where guy's got it from walrus, which I thought was strange. But the best they can do with the vaccinations, it seems like, uh, it reduces the Triconella larval burden and muscle by about so kind of like it doesn't even matter. Is better protection and nothing, But it still means that the individual who has been previously infected will probably still be vulnerable the whole body infection following a second exposure to raw or undercooked meat from bear bore rat et cetera. Cook the meat sausages, et cetera to at least one sixty. But yeah, talked to they, that's old news. They changed it. Do you ever notice now, Yeah, they just changed the rules. As for other animals, they too can't. They can't induce suffer from this type of parasite that needs only the single deterministic host each cycle. Even horses have been found to be a trick and nella haven't eaten dead rats minced up in their feed. I my first job and our third team was washing dishes at kind of my first formal job, like my first forty hour week job was washing dishes at a summer camp called Camp Pendaluon And we mixed the kool aid and garbage tubs and all that food and going to big garbage cans leftovers and a hog farmer to come every night and get it. And you used to be there, used to be commercial like slop restaurant slop would make its way into the commercial port production cycle and in all those rats and mice eating that slop outside of Camp Pendaluan would wind up getting fed to hogs. But now they have like this whole closed system is why they got it out of domestic pork. But a lot, a lot of stuff, like he says here, a lot of stuff ends up in horse hay when it's getting bailed, like gets killed while it's getting mode, then gets wrapped up in a bail. We used to find all the kinds of stuff, snakes, and we had a guy sending a picture that was a vawn wrapped up in a bail I've seen that before. All right, Danny Bolton, we know Danny because we're just fling. We were filming in Hawaii. We hung out with Danny uh and he was telling us that he was just still recovering from a harrowing encountered with toxic plasmosis, Yes, sir, which he got off kind of off wild game. But first, Danny, tell everybody what you do for a living. This is the kind of job that makes that makes me way ask jealous, and I bet it makes everybody jealous. Yeah. So I did a lot of driving instructing and it's turned into I have an off road driving background. I used to race off road and I called my friends. They train a bunch of military special forces guys and they had out in the desert for a week. And so I've been working with them do a bunch of Air Force uh pjs and Navy Seals and a bunch of other military and government programs and teaching them how to baha, teach them how to drive off road, teach them how to how do not break stuff if they encounter certain obstacles, how to get over it and use a winch. And it's for days, self supported, bring all our own gas, all our own water. We camp out there. UM, teach them how to weld with car batteries, so in case we break something needed weld something. Um, we can do that out there. So yeah, it's it's a fun job for sure. It's uh, it's good for the soul because you feel like you're passing on that knowledge to people who are actually going to use it. Now, could a guy like me, I don't want to give people ideas, not like me? Could I go on that trip with you sometimes? Yeah? So yeah, you got my number, Steve. Okay, we're hanging on Hawaii. You were still sick and you were wondering what the hell had happened to you, And while we were there, you found out. Now, tell the tell, the tell, your little saga. Start with what you were Start with your hunting trip. Okay, So I didn't find out until like a week after you had left, which had been like three weeks after being sick. So basically what happened was is that you guys were coming out and we were going to film that whole thing. I knew we were gonna hunt goats, and then camp chef had sent out that pellet grill, so I was like, okay, cool, um, maybe we could use this thing. And I was thinking, Okay, I'm just gonna try and make some jerky on that thing. So I went and shot a goat about a week before you guys were going to arrive. Explain what you mean by a goat, Like you mean like a goat? Yeah, just a wild goat. Why is like lots of just feral goats. He doesn't mean like a mountain goat or an antelope. He means like a goat. Yeah, like they call him Spanish goats or ibex um. They're not really ibex but um Yeah, they're just feral fareral goats that are all over the island. It's it's kind of like white tail. I guess in the East you see them pretty frequently. And you guys saw him just driving around on the roads. You see him on the side of the roads and like that. So I went hunting, got got this goat, and I was like, kay, cool, I'm gonna make some make some jerky on this this pellet grill and see how that turns out. So I'm hanging out with my friend Bart. We're cutting this goat meat up into these like little nice, perfect basically like little shushimi slices. You know. I was trying to cut it as thin as possible so that it wasn't chewy. And as we're cutting it, it just looks so beautiful. And I know plenty of people who eat deer meat, and I've eaten elk meat raw, and I know you're not supposed to eat pigs and bears raw, but I didn't. I didn't really put goats into that category, even though I get laughed at of friends now that are like, what, I can't believe you ate that raw, you know. So anyway, cutting this stuff up into these little slices for jerky, and I was like, man, let's get the soy sauce and with sabie out and we'll just eat a couple of these pieces, just like you would, you know, ah hi's shashimi. So that's really where it came from with eating it raw, and uh, I really we ate it. It was good, you know, with the soy sauce and the sabi, it it kind of masks some of the flavor because it's so strong, and it basically tasted like fish. It was a little bit more chewy, but it wasn't as chew as you would think, So we ate it. I ate about four pieces, which is probably about a little more in a tablespoon. And then my friend bart same thing. He ate like four pieces. So we're like, okay, cool, you know. And my wife was there and I almost wish he wasn't so she couldn't say this, But she's like, man, you guys shouldn't eat that. She's like looking at it as like I don't know if i'd eat that, dude, that gives her a lifetime of material. Oh yeah, She's like I told you, you know. And then my brother in law comes up as well. You know. I feel horrible about this because I kind of pure pressure at him. I was like, hey, come have a piece. He's like no, no, yeah, He's all no, no, I'm allergic to a sabi. And I was like, oh, no problem. I got apple cider vinegar right here. I'll just douse it with that. So like, I douse a piece with that and I give it to him. So he eats one piece. I'm talking like small little shashimi slice piece. It's okay, ate it done. Next. I kind of had in my head like who knows, like if I'm puking tonight. Whatever, I'll get it out next day. I'm feeling fine, so I'm like, cool, you know, I may I made it clear and uh. Then about three days later, I got leg pains, kind of like as if I ran a couple of miles the day before, you know. The next day, I was actually talked to you, Steve. That day, I talked to you on the phone before you guys came out and I was headed out on the boat that day. I was starting to feel a little weird, and then that evening I got body aches real bad and I got chills. But the weird thing about that day is I had bought some plate lunch the day before, and I brought it with me to take it with me fishing, and I threw it in the dashboard of the truck and we ended up working and not going fishing until later in the afternoon. And I didn't get to eat that like fried chicken until like two o'clock in the afternoon after sat in the dash So when I got sick that night, I was like, oh, that chicken was no good, you know, And it had like, you know, the mac salad with the tuna, and night threw you off. That threw you off the trail, man, it threw me off the trail. So that night when I got sick, I was like that that was no good. I should definitely not have eaten that. After sat in the dash, I thought I got sick from that. So that next day I was body aches and over that night to body aches and the chills. The chills are probably the worst. And my skin was kind of sensitive to and uh, just sensitive to temperature. You know, like if my arm would be sticking out of the blanket, I would be like, oh, that's cold out there, you know, I'd have to cover it up. And so, knowing that we were going to be filming in two days, I was like, I'm gonna just I'm gonna lay here and try to get better and just drink a bunch of liquids and try to heal up. So I spent two days in bed before you guys showed up, just feeling horrible. And then once we needed to start filming, and the first the first couple of days of filming, I was just on the camera boat. So I was taking Thailand all and ad like. Once I started taking Thailand all and advil, it was actually pretty manageable, and honestly, I've never had Thailand all or adval work so good. Like my body aches not completely disappeared, but from what they were without the drugs. It took the body aches away big time, and then the chills too. Once the drugs started to wear off, Like at night, I tried not use them because I didn't want to be overloading my system with him, and then the body aches and chills and stuff, it all kicked back in. Really at night was the worst, and I was taking hot showers, like in the middle of the night, like cooking hot showers. After those two days of filming, I got home one day super I didn't take any Thailand or stuff because I was gonna try wean off it. That night, you know, I started getting real hot feeling and almost like I was gonna pass out. I got real bad cotton mouth, and I knew I had a temperature because I could feel my body just cooking. Check my temperature, and that baby went from it just went one hundred, one oh one, one oh two, one oh three, and it started creeping up through like one or three point four, one or three point five, and I just I just pulled it out at that point, it wouldn't beat you know, like you know, you stick it in it deeps, dude, this thing was just going up and up and it was in there for like five minutes. Started smoking, yeah, and I'm like, just get out of my mouth already, like three point five one or three point five. I was like, let's just go. I needed little hospital because I got this fever now, so I need to figure out what the hell is wrong with me. So we went to the hospital. I was telling him, hey, okay, the only thing out of my ordinary day was I ate this raw goat meat. At this point, it had been like over a week ago, so he's asking me questions about it. Okay, you know, did you throw up? Uh, did you have diarrhea? You know all these other questions. And since I didn't have since I didn't, this is what I concluded was since I didn't throw up and have diarrhea, he kind of like blew it off. That's the way I took it. And UM didn't really test me for because I wanted to get tested for all kinds of stuff right there. I was like, I was thinking trigonosis and um whatever else you can get from raw goat meat. You know doesn't really check me too much. Gets me the two i VS. They took an X ray of my chest. Um, they said my lungs had some a little bit of inflammation and stuff, but nothing nothing major, so they gave me the two i v s. Actually started feeling better from the i VS and I got my temperature down with some time. All they give me through the i V and then sent me home that night. The next day, I'm feeling better and just still tired in. My body's pretty much drained and muscles are sore, but other than that, I started feeling better, so we kept filming and um, two days later we were hunting goats. Remember I got that text from my sister. I had to take gask On to the hospital last night at like three in the morning with chest pain, and because he was he was sick for at that point like five days, but then it got worse and you had this chest pain. So she takes him to the hospital. And I also had like this chest pain when I was going through my body aches, and especially had breathed in deep in my back with her and then my lungs. It almost make me want to cough a little bit. Um, I just equated it with like body aches all over, you know. I was just miserable all over. But since he went in with chest pain, the hospitals like, oh, we gotta check you out, you know. So they do an X ray and he's got heart in flamy nation like the heart the heart stack, you know, there's a name for it, but that's inflamed. They think it's, uh, Bruce ella. That's what they thought it was, so that's what they started him on antibotics. So I'm like, perfect, They're going to figure out what it is and then I'm going to get the antibiotics for it. Since he was on those antibiotics, they kept him in the hospital for three days, same thing. He kind of naturally started filming better after three days and they did the blood culture. They found out it wasn't Bruce Ella, and he kind of naturally started getting better. So he he got at a hospital and then that's uh, that's as much as as far as the sickness went. It kind of drug on for a while. But after we stopped filming Steve that after the day we finished cooking at my house. That next day, I went in and got tested for everything because I didn't know if it was gonna last, you know, I was like, man, the thing is gonna flare back up. I gotta know what the heck is going on with me. And I had told him like, hey, I want to get tested for everything that has to do with raw go meat. So that I go in and they poked both my arms. They feel like ten tubes up with blood. They give me a urine sample I had to give them, and then these three stool samples I had to do, and so I was like perfect, but I was kind of laughing because the day before we had eaten goat curry and raw fish. That's all. That's all I ate that day before. I was like, oh man, this thing is gonna be laced with all kinds of goodies. So I do the stool sample and uh, I don't know if you've ever done those stool samples, but it's like the two of them, it's got liquid in it already. Yeah cowboy hand, yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. So they give you the plastic thing. You turned the plastic thing, but it's not very deep, so you kind of gotta like lift off to make sure you don't like stack it up, and you gotta let it drop in there, get them all filled up by go return them. And at that point, all kinds of tests started coming back through my email, and I don't know, you know, I'm not a doctor, like all these checking all these proteins and all this stuff, so I didn't really no. But then the toxico plasmosis one came up and it says it didn't tell me yet, but I got the result. What it says is it's got these ranges that you're supposed to be in, and it says anything under eight is negative, from eight to ten is normal, and then anything above ten is positive. And mine came back at nine three point six. So I was like, yeah, that that looks about right. I think that's what it is. That's gotta be that's gotta be it. So yeah, that's when that's when I found out. And that wasn't until like a week after you guys had left, which has been like three weeks. And then telling people about it. My one friends like oh, Joe Rogan had somebody on and they talked about it for like twenty minutes and listen to that and there's some crazy stuff, you know. That's when I found out about the whole cats and how it breeds in cats or whatever and that's where it comes from. And then they poop and the goat must have ate some grass that the cat poop was on or something, you know. But here's the crazy thing too, is that my I was telling my uncle about it and he was talking about these fever dreams um and I remember I was like, oh, man, when I was sick, because like I said that the nights were worse. I was having these dreams that I had these leopard spots all over me and they were like illuminating on the spark on the muscles that were in pain, like my legs and stuff, and I'm tripping out. I'd wake up. I'd be like, old, that was weird, you know, go pee or something, and when I go laid back down, I'd go right back into that same dream. And that happened for two nights. Yeah, I went like in the peak of being sick, so I was tripping out. And then when I found out about this thing coming from cats and then having these leopard spot dreams, I was I was tripping. Dude, that's cat scratch fever right there. What he said, scratch fever, Dude, doctors are layout the situation on toxic plasmosis. So just to preface this with, um, so I'm an e ER doctor and definitely not a I D. Doctor. But one thing that your doctors are really good at is it we know a little bit about a lot of things, and we're super good at looking things up really quickly to sound smart and confident. So, um, that's kind of what I mean. This is like medical school stuff. You never go say like, hey, I was just looking it up. Oh you call you guys coming and act like you knew all along. You're like, I'll be I'll be right back, and it's like, you know, he's going out to google it. He's gonna come back and act like he knew. I've had a minute to think about this. It's not just the are doctors, it's all doctors are doing that, all right, So Google is amazing, right, But the thing is, so here's the thing is that So just so you don't think that all doctors are just using the Internet. But it's like your peripheral brain, it's there, you know what it is. And I can go through Wikipedia, which is a wonderful resource. You can go through it and you go like, oh, I remember that medical school. I remember that part um, So you're not just you know, doing it day novo, You're just recharging your brain. So I gotta I gotta tell you. I gotta tell you something. Alan. Yeah, when I had trick nosis, I had already spoken with the state epidemiologist in Alaska. I had already gone down and told him how I was real sick. And I think that I knew what I had. They sent me home not believing me. M hm. My brother had gone was like go beer drinking with the state epidemiologist in Alaska. He's like, we'll call him. I called him and they do with a lot it up there because they're eating a lot of bear meat. Yeah, I call him like it was a month ago for of us all got it. We were eating rare bear meat. He's like, you have tricked noses. Go back down to the doctor, tell him to call me. I'm waiting for his call. Yeah. I go down. I said, listen, man, I'm not here to like tell you a bunch of ship about what's going on. Me. Yeah, Caul this number. He looked at me like I'm nuts. He goes, well, I'm here with you, and he's way up there and I'm like, just call the guy. So he eventually agrees to call him, but won't call him in my presence, no leaves the room. I know he would and call him, comes back and goes. As soon as you have trick noses, I'm like Dank's buddy. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's a little bit of hubris to have to I learned that early on in my career. If some a family member comes in as like I need you to call so and so, you call that person because otherwise you and if you're because if you're wrong, then you're an ass, you know what I mean, Like you're in a big amount of trouble. So it's always better to take all the input and just be like, okay, will you know, let's listen and get all the points. But yeah, that's a that's a common thing. So I'm glad he listened to you or your your friend. So um so toxo um toxoplasmosis. Uh. It's an obligate inter cellular protozoan organism. So it's a small, single celled, microscopic animal which includes things like amba's and spore zones and other different forms. It's a parasite and the they say, the obligate UM like end of the line host is the cat. So, uh, the cat will get this in its gut, it will poop it out, and small animals like birds and rodents will somehow get the feces from eating whatever's on the ground. You say, I mean it has to go through a cat. It has to be in the cat ultimately, Yeah, to to be able to replicate um in. Uh. It's like spreading form. It wants to get into the cat to to to humanize it or two anthropomorphizes the single celled organism. It wants to be in the cat's gut and it wants to get pooped out to spread. Hey, Alan, Alan, are we talking just domestic cats or could we be talking about you know, bobcats or mountain lions? Do you know? I'm not sure, but if I had to make a guess, I'd probably say all felines because it says UM from the CDC website. It says from the family Fela day So uh so domestic cats and their relatives, So I presume bobcats is probably I mean they're part of the feeline family. Yeah. I read that leopards and stuff can have it and other cats. Yeah, and how things evolved. So, Danny, what you're talking about? That that guy that um you watch on Joe Rogan, he had a lot of really interesting things to say. He was like, I don't know if he's epidemiologist or i D doc or what, but he went to a lot of detail about this uh parasitic relationship and how things evolved together. Um, it's so complicated over millennia, like how and why it shows the cat not sure, but anyway, so it can also get into domestic animals like pigs and sheep. Um. Ultimately, humans get it from either eating undercooked raw meat UH containing the cists or drinking water or eating domestic animals that have been exposed to it. One of the two guys point before you can get it from handling a cat litter box. Um. And like when we had kids, I love domestic animals, but we got rid of our cats. We adopted them out whatever the term is, gave them away to somebody else because I didn't want to I didn't want to expose my wife and I also didn't want to do the litter box for the next like five years. So it was like time for the cats to go. There's a way out, buddy. Yeah, I gotta get rid of the cat. Yeah, for sure, it's not worth it. So it's that it's that a cat, So I want to make sure I'm getting this. Like it's in the cat as to go through the cat. It's in the cat's gut, it's in the cats ship. But a go has to eat something laying on catship or the cat poop is in the soil, and the cysts are in the soil. So the when the cat poops, these o sis, which are not um like spirelated or active infective cysts, come out into the poop and then they mature in the ground and then they become effective over like a couple of days. And then the rodents or birds come by and consume whatever is on the ground, and then they become infected, and then the cat will eat those rodents and birds, and then the cycle continues. Um and if a human steps in there somewhere eats the bird, or you know, drops their granola bar on the ground when they're hiking or something like that. But you know, we're exposed to all sorts of pathogens when we're walking around all day long. I mean, if you guys ever, that's a tangent. But the War of the worlds, you know, I mean the like how the aliens ultimately get defeated because of like the bacteria that they can't handle. But we're exposed to it all the time, you know, We're exposed to bacteria, viruses, pathogens on the daily and wars and wells, the aliens and the oars and wells that they catch a colden. I'm pretty sure, right, remember what was that? What was that? What was that alien invasion movie where they realized that yodeling kills them. They would play Slim Whitman's play Slim Whitman's Indian love call to kill him, that this can't be real, no Mars attacks. Oh, realized that Slim Slim Whitman music would kill him in the ring? Isn't it water that does the tricks? Signs? Signs? Is the water? Yeah? Yeah, it was um calling you that's a great yeah. So uh so, So back to trichinosis. So somebody was saying earlier, Um, I can't remember who said it, but like, what's the prevalence or like how many people have been infected by They think that the serial prevalence in the United States is about twenty um. But it varies throughout the world, and in particularly it varies in in societies and countries that have less stringent you know, food safety practices, less um clean water, etcetera. So in countries in South America, like in Brazil, they think about sevent people have been exposed to toxoplasmosis is just have it in the yeah, so, but he's still the United States, it's still pretty high. When I was going through the trick gnosis thing, I had a call with someone who had been in the Peace Corps. She had been a doctor with the Peace Corps MHM, and she told me that in a lot of villages when they would go into the congo, they would just come in and without asking anyone about symptomology, and they would come in and and deworm everybody. It was just understood that they were It was just understood that they were there. They were carriers and probably stuff ring that it was. It was, it was pervasive. I think that we as a society don't have as much of an understanding of how different things were like a hundred years ago or two d years ago, and we didn't have indoor plumbing, and we didn't have water treatment plants, etcetera. Like, the biggest movements forward in increasing human lifespan have been in the structural implements in society like indoor plumbing, clean water, the development of antibiotics, like all these things have increased our lifespans by years because infectious disease was the number one killer UM in UH in humans up until the advent of antibiotics, and then I think trauma as well. But anyway, so yeah, I would you know, people are pooping where they're eating pretty much in close proximity, so um, and that's just an unfortunate thing. But you know, I really appreciate my toilet. So yeah, so I did have the state department had to call me and because they got reported that I had toxo pasmosis, I don't how to do this whole report with the department Department of Health. And they did the whole report and then I asked her. I was like, hey, how common is this? You know? And she didn't have numbers super recent, but she had two thousand eighteen, there were seven cases on just Our Island. Two seventeen there's four cases. Two thousand sixteen, there was eleven cases on just Our island of toxo pasmosis. She she didn't say how they got it. You know, it could have just been someone with dirty hands preparing food or something. But yeah, um, but I was the first case this year. Just like, you know, congratulations. One last thing about taxos, so it should be it should be said most people who contracted have like nine percent of people have no symptoms. And Danny's unique because he has this, he probably would have had. They say, it's an acute self limited infection and like a healthy host. And the most common clinical presentation is people developed lymph nodes in their neck that are non tender and they're large on both sides. And then people get these my allergies or body aches, fever, sweating, headaches, sometimes a rash, but most people have no symptoms and it passes without any problem. The people that you really worry about are pregnant women and immune compromise people, so people who have HIV, people who are really unhealthy, cancer, rheumatory atritists, etcetera. Um, those people, they're most common presentation aside from pregnant women have central nervous system symptoms where the taxos in their brain and they end up showing up with like seizures in uh focal neurodeficits and headaches and stuff, and it's it's really scary for them. They'll have to be on treatment for the rest of their life if they survived the the illness initially. So, Danny, I got one last question for you. Yeah, buddy, do you you don't have a cat? Right? No cats? Dude? So you weren't like screwing around the litter box or something, Dude, I was not. I call it catch it itis, dude. That's what I've been calling this scene. The goat the goats disease or cash it itis. All. Thanks a lot, man, appreciate you coming on. When when you come to next time you're in the US, will have we'll come down and talk spear fishing. Sorry, you know the mainland. Yeah, I'll bring the goat state and all that garbage. Listen, man, my flanks last state stars on it mainland. All right, All know what what we guys? You want to ask you question? This is for Yanni because Yanni has been wanting to have uh some some information about when you're shooting guns in your ears go bad over time. So we're shooting experiment with different suppressors the other day and it kind of led to this conversation about what exactly is going on in your ears when you shoot guns a lot? And can you explain what happens? Like I had someone Clay nucom uh recently gave this to me by shooting too close to my ear. When someone shoots real close to your ear, like in a duck blind or whatever, and all of a sudden you get that WHOA, what has happened to your ear? So, um, this is a really interesting question and very relevant for everybody. Uh they're not, you know, listening to podcast. So what happens is when a gun goes off, there is a sound wave or an explosion, and a sound wave that slams into your um tympanic membrane, which is in your middle ear. So the ear's broken into three pieces. There's the outer ear, this part you can touch on the side you had called a pinna your ear canal bugs get stuck in there, the middle ear, which is your tympanic membrane, and then the osticle chain of these tiny bones which are the tiniest in your body that then vibrate and touch the inner ear in the interer ear, there's a structure called the cochlea UM and the semi circular canals. The cochlea is what processes that sound wave and those vibrations into electrical signals going down the vestibular cocular nerve into your brain into like your temporal prietal lobe, and then you perceive sound or you hear um. And so when you hear that ringing, that ringing is called tinatus or some people say tenitus um. Tintus is the perception of um, the perception of sound in the absence of external auditory stimulus. So you're hearing something that's not necessarily there. So the sound wave has gone away, but you're still hearing that ringing UM. And so tinatus can be temporary or permanent, especially if people are exposed to a lot of like you know, uh, significant high end noise. But it can also, I was reading, can happen from like explosions UM and a single you know experience where somebody gets a super high amount of decibels or they you know, they blow their ear drum UM. So that tinaedus is essentially the little hairs inside the cochlea that that are vibrating back and forth and and translating that vibration of the sound wave of intelectrical signals. It's those little hairs that are dying um and or being overly stimulated. So like I remember going to a concerts when I was younger, and I didn't wear any ear protection at all, and I would walk out of the concert and all I had for two or three hours was that tinatus or that ringing in my ears. Thankfully it went away, But after, you know, learning in medical school, I realized that my inner ear was essentially dying after going to like a rock concert, so I started wearing earplugs. Um So that's pretty much it. Well, why is it that now? And then you'll be laying in bed like this happens to me now, laying in bed, and all of a sudden, there it is right. And at first you look around the house, do you think something in the house is going on? Like, it's not related to someone blasting a gun off next your head. Sure, So when you get exposed to h loud noises um So noises are rated in decibels um and the threshold of pain the scale goes from zero to a hundred forty forty is like the threshold of pain for a human. A shotgun blast is around at but you know, different kinds of guns with shorter barrels and bigger barrels can be louder than that. UM. When you get exposed to high decibel sounds, you can have permanent damage to those co Clear nerve cells. And why it all of a sudden ticks off in the middle of night, I'm not really sure. But all of us, because of the way we live with our ear earbuds and the stuff we're exposed to in our jobs and your advocational things with shooting, we all probably have some degree of co clear hair cell damage. UM. And the cells that are taking the signal from the hairs also get damaged, and so they can get extra excited even without stimulation, and so they just they just fire off. And that's the tindatus that's happening. UM. And they say I was reading before that most tinadas will self resolve on its own. UM. I think between like twenty resolves on its own. So it's hard to you know, it's not really a very well treatable thing. A lot of people struggle with depression from it or feel like they're going crazy. They've even associated tendais with suicides, um depression, anxiety, sleep disorders because it's extremely disturbing. Like, most people don't care as much about losing their hearing, but they care a lot about having tinatus that's chronically happening because it's it's so disturbing. So once hair inner ear hair cells have been killed, there's no regeneration of anything, right, So it's like ten shotgun blast near my head will produce x amount of damage and that's it, and then it'll just it's kind of a downward spiral. Yeah. Humans, So I read somewhere else that humans don't regenerate those cells as well as like other animals do. But most animals aren't exposed to super high noises like we are in the same same way either, But humans are unique in the sense that we don't we don't really regenerate those cells. Ironically, everybody ends up losing some of their hearing as they age. It's called presbycusis. And when Steville, you guys will all appreciate this, but they say that men tend to lose the higher pitched sounds and women tend to lose the lower pitch sounds. So as we age. Essentially we are like our partners over time. What did you say already? Yeah, I think we all do in some ways. Yeah, so, but yeah, the cells don't. I sent Currents some pictures and it kind of looks like a um, you know, like somebody smushed a bunch of little tiny fingers down and like a bomb went off, you know, in these electron microscope photographs. So yeah, and one other thing I read. So one other thing I read. So I pulled up a couple of studies in UM and one of these studies was based in Greece, and they looked at like a hundred military guys that have been exposed to gunfire anywhere from like one to a thousand rounds light versus heavy heavy arms, and they had most of the patients in the study were right handed. They're like nine of them were right handed. And they found that most of the most of the tenais that people were experiencing was in their left ear. So if you're you know, if you're a right handed shooter, you've got your right ear down on your shoulder, down on the butt of the gun. Your left ear is more exposed to that sound wave. So they're thinking that like the right ears protected, and I like the term. They call it an acoustic shadow next to your shoulders, so you're right ear is more protected than your left. I thought that was an interesting fact. And when I when I went to an audiologist and he was looking at what ear, I can't hember what it was because I'm left handed. Anyways, he was puzzled by the fact that the ear that I had damaged was the one I had damaged until he realized that I was left handed. He's like, oh, that makes sense. Yeah, He's like, normally we see this in people's whatever the hell are here left ear? Yeah, I guess, yet another unique thing. So the degree of tenadus doesn't always associate with the amount of like hearing impairments, So you can have like still pretty good hearing and still have still be uh, you know, a victim of this tenadus. And one of the thing I read, one of the most common injuries are The most common injury in the Iraq War was ear injuries because of the soldiers being exposed to you know, gunfire and loud noises, um. And it's quite common in the general population as well, about like a hundred and fifty people per a hundred thousand people experienced tentatives, so it's fairly common. Got it. The last thing I found was UM. I found an article from American Speech and Language Association on suppressors. I know, you guys are talking about earlier, and they were just talking about hearing protection and saying that you know, even though you put a suppressor on your firearm, you should still be wearing UM ear protection because the suppression only drops the noise level by like twenty to thirty decibels UM. And so you know, if some of these firearms are producing sounds greater than a hundred forty, then you're still in a fairly loud sound rage like operating heavy machinery or at a nightclub, basically on the decibel scale. Yeah, a guy was telling us that most suppressors that you want to make sure a suppressor puts you down, they go by Ocean standards. You can get a suppressor that will put you down below what OSHA would recommend for hearing protection, but I don't know why the hell you would just leave him on anyways. Yeah, so the Ocean standards, I looked those up to. The Ocean standards are based off of not only the amount of decibels, but also the amount of time that you're exposed to those decibels. So like they would say a worker can be exposed to uh, you know, ninety decibels for four hours um or I don't know the exact amount, but you know, so it's it's also time time rated as well. So but probably for anybody using suppressor, I think it's probably still a good idea to put some amount of ear protection on if you shoot a lot. So let's talk about when you guys are gonna get you guys should get a T shirt for a number of lives meat eater saved with the turniquets. Right, Oh, we're up to we got a new one. I think how many? But his life wasn't he was? It doesn't kind of a life save. It's like an arm saved. He could have bled out. But yeah, you guys could have like a ticker like three and counting and one arm and counting. Yeah, for sure. Then you know we have this as you know, and I'll point this out to people too. We have a audio um, we have an audio original book coming out with Random House. And in this yeah, well yeah, because in this project, we hear a very elaborate story. Listeners will hear a very elaborate story about a man who him and his father were hunting. His father got shot by a dog, and this guy was seriously at risk of dying. Recalled hearing a podcast in which someone explained how to put a tourniquet, and he remembers how I'm talking about the tightness saved his old man's life. And then later when he had meant to think about it, realized it was here in Dr Lazara on the Mediator podcast and that was like the third life you'd save. These people shall all be sending you money? Man? No, No, that's all. It's all good, smarty. I think you know, I think that. Um. I was looking last night for a video on your Instagram because Karna told me about something about a deer with a bunch of puss and its belly. But I was looking and I stumbled across a video of you cutting your ingrown toenail out, and I said that it had about five thousand views. The video killed. I said, what an amount of influence you have if you can do self grooming and people watch that to such a degree. But also to comment on the fact that to use that influence in such a way to put out great messages about conservation or health or safety. I mean it's a tremendous service, I think to two people. And it's also, you know, really entertaining. I'm obviously biased, but like you know, it's a great thing. You know, it's good Samaritan stuff. It's amazing. So no money, just good Samaritan stuff. I appreciate you saying that. Man, I did that toe surgery yesterday on a zoom call, but I just kept my foot down below though it was like, what's his name? Who's the new arcor right? Yeah, I was just gonna say that's uh, what's that guy? Yeah, it's like Jeffrey Tuban. But was it my toe doing my toe surgery? But I kept my toe down low? That's good sight, that's good people like you did a toe surgery? What's he doing down there? What's he doing on anyway? He must be working on his toe. You're probably the only person to do that. The latest news it's gonna break. And the wildest part is that the caption was like do you want to see more of this content? And it was a resounding yes. I know. If I just gotta think of more. I mean, I could just do the same surgery over and over again, but I can't think of more, Doctor Lazarre, thanks for joining us. Man. Tell everybody where you work so if they get hurt, they can come to the right hospital. Absolutely so. I work at Henry Ford Allegiance in Jackson, Michigan. I work for a company, small democratic group called I E. P and Um. Yeah, we love taking care of patients. And you know we're there always in the middle of the night, every holiday, every weekend. So that's what we signed up for. So you're you're so if someone is going to get hurt this, you get hurt at night because they're gonna find you down there at night. Yeah. Well, I mean the E R is open. The R is open seven. I think it's like US, walmart Um and Taco Bell. I think are like seven operations that we have in our society. So alright, so arry at ladies, gentlemen, if you get hurt in Jackson, make sure to go to that place Jackson, Michigan, go to that place and you can shoot the breeze with Dr Lazara. Well he fixes up. Thanks so much for having you guys. Thanks mans, all right, I want to hit on this audio project for a minute. Um, it's available, it's coming out soon. It's available available for pre order. I'm gonna tell people how I described it. I put a thing on Instagram about it which sums it up pretty good. You did a great job. No, we worked our We've been working our corn is off on this thing. Still are still wrapping up the finishing touches. So okay, Well, here's I wrote on Instagram about it. Listeners of the Meat Eater podcast might remember our Meat Tree episodes where we told the story of a mightily close encounter with a round bear on Alaska's a fog Neck Island. This very podcast told that story. Ultimately, that experience inspired this immersive audio book with Random House. By immersive, we mean I hesitated to say this because you might get the wrong idea. There's there's a soundscape, there's like supporting sound, and there's music and stuff, but there's supporting sound and kind of like it's immersive. It's I don't know. I think everybody shocked at how good it turned out. I don't know it's gonna be this good. Yeah. It was started because we found the most craziest people with the craziest stories. It's six hours long, includes sixteen tales of harrowing close calls in the wild, told by the people themselves. A game ward and almost gunned down by an oozy wielding, sociopathic elk poacher, a spear fisherman trapped in an underwater cave, a pheasant hunter shot by a dog, a peacock bass fisherman who inadvertently gets tangled up with a drug cartel. A fishing guy who saves the life of a boy whose father had written him off for dead. That being none other than Brodie Henderson. Brodie Henderson walking around all the time, was sitting on this like very traumatic story about a boy he saved. We got Seth in there too. Seth's in there. I get to him in a minute. A fishing guy who saves the life of a boy whose father had written him off for dead. And a wild land firefighter who's forced to reckon with the idea of his last day on Earth. Yep, we're sitting among giants, flip flop plesher. What's a spoiler alert? It wasn't his last day on Earth, since he's sitting here, am I said? Forced to reckon? With you try to sell the book or not. That's how Seth died. To go on along the way, I explore the unique aspects of human psychology and physiology that emerge that emerge during these brushes with death, and seek to answer the question of why close calls in the wild have a way of haunting us for the rest of our lives. I've always been a big fan of paradoxical undressing, which happens to you doing hypothermia or liket like it's a it's an unnerving idea. But in this one and are in the hypothermia story. In this book of a Caribou Guide, we explore terminal burrowing. It's kind of a nasty little description. Some people when they're suffering hypothermia get the idea that they're gonna dig a hole and climb into the hole to warm up, often digging their own grave. It's good, It's very good. I was playing We're going Through and just doing final listens, and I was driving driving down the road listening to edits with my wife and and there were four times just the short time we were listening to things, four times, including doing Brody story where she did all she did, she did one of these noises. She went, um, I can't quite do it would be like, huh no, do one like a like a shocked noise crin No more than that way more No, it was like tim ellen whatever that she did an nooise like this, I should get her to come down here and do it. She did annoise like it was like this, like it was conveyed this message. Oh my god, oh my god, yeah got it. Yeah. Basically just like my wife like, oh my god, without the words it's good, like it's it's listen. This is one of the proudest things. Uh. We don't celebrate a lot of stuff around here, but I'm setting up a dinner for the for the bazillion people involved in that project. It's it's one of the great I think it's one of the coolest things we've ever made. And it'll I think, very much appeal to people. It's not just for hunters and fishermen. It like, no, dudes, there's a skier in it who wrote eighteen who wrote an avalanche for eight hundred feet yep, mountaineer, mountaineering, just game wardening. Yeah, ye, my my wife really likes the show Hoarders. Are you familiar with that. I know that there's a show called Hoarders. Yeah, it's like where where these people have an extreme hoarding problem. We bring us back to this audience. Now it's come there for I do know about this show. I haven't seen any episodes. If you're not familiar. These folks fill their house with just trash, literal trash from Florida ceiling, and then they bring in these experts to help them expert clean up their house. Yeah, there's hoarding experts to help them clean up their house, because not as a dude with a dumpster. There's a dude with a dumpster, and then there's also the expert that helps them. Oh psychologically, yeah, I can't watch the show. There's two much dread and too much anxiety with that show, and there's just no payoff and it's like I need to walk out of the room. If my wife is watching Hoarders. You get a little bit of that with these interviews, like it approaches that line of giving you some anxiety and some dread, but it's still like wildly entertaining. There's still a payoff and it's it's like one of the most fun things to listen to. Oh, there's also story speaking not all hunting fishing. There's a story about going to the old hot springs, just a just a nice day having a warm dip. What could possibly go wrong having a warm dip with the hot spring? It's good. Okay, it's all you can it's coming out, but you just like get it. Now. Here's the thing. It's a it's an audiobook, so it just it just you know, you don't need to wait for to come in the mail. But it's good for us. We just go preorder the damn thing. Yep. Um. You can go to audible Amazon. Yeah, you go to Amazon dot com and go to audible. I think audible is owned by Amazon and find it. It's called Meat Eaters Can't Fire stories. Close calls, Close calls. It's all close calls. Should we point out that we're hoping there's going to be a volume two if everything goes well. Yeah, and then and then that'll give everybody, let's listen, and chance to let us know about the cast. They'll get casted cast into it. Uh. Speaking of books, when we are our recent episode just came out a couple weeks called we Don't Hadden Me. The other day, speaking of doing the audiobook. Um, someone tried to sabotage the project. I think competitors, competitors in the audio space, because we were recording some final pickup lines. Okay, and Nick, who works here, hands me a fudge sickle which I take into the studio and I'm looking on this fipe sickle trying to do the lines. Sounds like this rude life flash before. Yeah, we had to like finish the fudge cycle and come back in and redo the whole thing all over again because it was like fudge stacleized in hunt. In the Hunting and Chains episode, we're talking about out of print books and now something. There's this book I love by a writer, Duncan Gil Chris. He was he's like he's a writer. He Duncan Gil Chris was an outdoor writer who would publish his own books. And he accidentally wrote like Hemingway, like very very simple clean lessons. He was sentences. He was a bush pilot. He was a guy in Alaska. He's a hunt New Zealand, hunted over place very like d I y um alpine hunting. And he kind of put all of his thoughts and in and approaches and tips and tricks in a book to call Wait for It All about Bears, which is all about bears. And then he wrote Hunt High, um phenomenal books, but there aren't many round he would self published these books. And I'm always y happen about him. You know, there's very few of the men there. And I was pointing out that how I bought one from a guy there was like a hunter Bocks. I bought it and he said to me with a note sticking on it and says, because he sees my name when he has a ship to me. He's like, you're the reason I bought this book. Well, right now, someone after that episode came out, someone goes online to check on Hunt High and there's a copy on Amazon for one thousand, six hundred and nine cents, or you can get a hardcover for the less half this half as much. Yeah, and there's some used ones for seven eight hundred bucks. You would think that someone would reprint that someone Ditcher book. That's crazy, unbelievable. Do you feel bad spot burned a book? No, because I think that even in I think he was so good and such an interesting guy. Like to see him, even in death enjoy success. A friend of mine was with him when he died. Was with Duncan Gilchrist when he died, they were filming bighorn sheep. He would do these like videos. He would go out and film bighorn sheep and just do videos about bighorn sheep, love sheep. How long ago did he die? It's maybe a decade or so ago. A buddymine is an outdoor writer and he was writing a piece about Duncan and about Duncan's like lifelong fascination with alpine hunting and mountain hunting. And they were out filming big horns and he said, all of a sudden, he looked and he was just dead. And he said to my friend, said he in telling the story. My friend said, Duncan, where did you go? It was that like it doesn't seem like such a bad way sad hearts act, And there was no nothing. It's just all of a sudden, he was just dead, right where he wanted to be. Probably, yeah, yeah, Duncan. Sound I thought you were doing the death mode. There's a song. I wonder if this there's a song, and I've always wondered what it's about. But as a band called death Cap for Cutie, they got a song about Duncan. Giol Christ, the lead singer, did a solo album and he has a song called Duncan Where Have You Gone? And I wonder if it's in reference to that. I don't know, dude, he really knows where did you go? Okay, it might be different, but that's a weird coincidence. Did he big sheep hunter? Not at all. He's a vegan. Wow. So that's the important that's the expensive book desk. Now. Last thing to close out was we gotta talk about a lot of times to talk about things people do do, but we're gonna talk about things people don't do. Seth has been toying with. It's not too late, Seth. It might be Seth. Toyd was joining a wall like tournament this weekend and chickened out. But he's still fishing the same lake where the tournament. He's just going up there to fish anyway. UM, walk me through it, Seth, just so I can understand. Well, Yeah, Chester and I we're gonna we're thinking about joining or signing up for the while I tournament. It's on Canyon Ferry this weekend. It's part of the Montanel while I circuit Um. One reason why we didn't sign up was because the entry fees. I feel like this company could sponsor you and you just get a sticker on your boat, but then you've damned your better win just gonna be embarrassing. Man. Yeah. Um, and one of the reasons that I was afraid of. But what I'm I'm kind of reading now that this might not be a problem because they're switching it up. But my live well isn't always uh, it doesn't always keep fish very lively. And I was afraid to just having fish in there and dying before way and like they'd pass away and you wouldn't be able to count them. Yeah, but I'm I'm just reading this right here that I think they're they might go away from that this year, or they have you just bringing dead walleyes on ice. No, you just there's a there's a way that you can record your fish size by like digitally or yeah, m hm. How much would you win if you won the walleye tournament. It's estimated ten thousan dollars for first place and how many boats, Um, it's got to be a lot. A hundred and fifty two person team, max is what says on here huh, I feel like that's probably feel like I would have the smallest boat there. Later it would be like a movie about you guys. Man, it would be like one of the Jamaicans one that Bob sledding tournament in Olympics and they later made a movie that's true. If he just you would be able to take that plot line. It have like Chester's wife be mad that he fishes all time, right, and and then it would be that you guys go out in this little boat in the movie would be like a way worse boat. Yeah, there'd be a big storm. So this is this is another problem the weather to my boat on Canyan Ferry. Like you got to have decent weather to be on the water. If like the wind blows both days this weekend, we could throw three and twenty bucks in the pot not even be able to fish. M But what okay, I'll be out there on the bank. But you know, like for the potential of ten thousand is like investment, Yeah exactly, maybe it's right, Like maybe the odds are better than that's a lot of money towards Chester's new boat, and it's or bus you could luck into like like place and probably get your money back or something. Yeah, that's true. Now if you go up, you're gonna go fish anyway. Yeah, we're gonna do anything. So all these who's are gonna be out there in their big souped up boats. You canna be out there for the minute you catch a hog, you're gonna be really regretting. Yeah, signed up, Still sign up. It's caught a nice about like during a roll. We were Yeah, we were up there last weekend. There was a bunch of dudes pre fishing it for the tournament, a lot of dudes that have fancy boats. But we absolutely crushed them. So you out fished them. I don't know if we outfished them. We caught a lot of fish. I don't know if we caught like it's a I think it's a five five fish bag. We didn't catch any giants. You just tell everybody about me catching that one there a night on the don't want you to tell anybody about that. You can. You can tell us about it since we started. I got one there a night. I noticed after I caught it, Seth, I noticed after I caught it, Seth changed his approach Joe Wally and then went on, Yeah, what we call eaters. Spencer what we call eaters, A good old eater eaters. All Right, so you're going, we're going anyway. Not too late to enroll or too late to enroll. I think it's too late, But um no, we're definitely chet and I are definitely gonna start fishing some tournaments. You're gonna become a tournament walleye angler. Ye. Do you think you'll still work here? Do you think you'll quit to do that? It all depends on how much time you let me, so you honestly quit this. You'd honestly quit? You do like you wouldn't want to be colleagues with any of us anymore? No, I wouldn't, so you could be a walleye tournament guy. I want. I freaking love walleye fishing. I know what you do. I know you do, but no, I wouldn't. Your girlfriend likes eating walleyes, you like catching walleyes? Yep. Um No, I seriously do want to enter tournaments. I think it'd be fun. But is he gonna pay you to let him go when your tournament fishing? Though? Don't you gonna release him your way? In? What do they care with you? Them? Don't I'm not sure how that works if you have to release him or not. You probably can't high grade during the tournament though, that's what you're talking about for for explain high grading for people at home. Yeah, Like, like you catch you got four or sixteen inches in the boat, and you can only keep four and then you catch an eighteen incher. You can't let one of the sixteen inchers go and keep that eighteen inchures. That's high grading. They do that all the time. Bass tournaments though, don't They depends on the regulations. Yeah, it depends on state, state and body of water. There was I remember there was a bass fishing scandal one time where there was a I think it was a bass tournament in a stretch of the Mississippi where you have states, right, so whatever the hell. One side of the the river is one state, one side the rivers the R state. A guy crossed state line like down and I guess in this area is always islands and it's confusing what state you're in? Cross state lines and high graded? Yeah, it was. That was Brandon Paul nit big fan of them. Actually he was a fan of a bass fishing. It was an awes mistake. No, I'm not criticized he got his poster on his wall. There was a moment when bass fishing was on ESPN. Yeah, like you you had a bass fisherman, like you had a football team. Did you put posters of these people on your bedroom wall? No? I still follow. Did you wear their jersey? No? I follow closely though the the Elite series Bass. I used to do fantasy bass fishing. Do you know what that means? You know? A fantasy football is, yeah, that but with bass. So you like pick like five anglers for a specific tournament and then you're like entered in this pool with these other guys that are like watching the tournament. It's like, it's like, why do you guys not start like a segment of our business dedicated to this stuff? We should. It's pretty far outside our ethos. We're catching fish this version of catching fish with electronics, and like, like this tournament tomorrow, seth these guys are gonna have electronics more expensive than your until you're set up. But I mean I have electronics on my boat that are that's like more expensive than my boat. So I feel like they're not gonna out electronics me. They might just out fish you. They're definitely outboating me big time. All Right, Seth, good luck out there. Thank you. I'm a little bit sad about this new career going down. I hope you don't do well. No, I'm not. I'll tell you. I'm not gonna leave me either to be a tournament walleye fisherman. But that's good here, that's good here. Um I do like fishing them. Okay, thank you, every buddy. We're Seth. Good luck if you're if you're fishing the wall, I term and you see a guy in a little dinghy boat, the Nighthawk cresh Lyer Nighthawks say hi, thank you. S