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Hunt creators are the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the Hunt app from the iTunes or Google play store. Nor where you stand with on X all right Josh Karney. The first thing we gotta talk about, Um, you years old and here on my birthday today, I turned forty, and you're the first thing you're gonna do is tell me about how I suck at turkey? Calm, How are you having right to this day? No? Yeah, I want I wanted this clearly around. I listen. Yeah, I reckon, I had never Um, yeah, just tell me about it. Just hit me, just hit me, hit me. I'm up because my birthday, So hit me back down again. Man, give me a good formal critique, Like I'm like, what am my? What? What areas should I most strive to improve? Man? Um, I just don't want to break your heart like this is do it? Break break it up like like if you're gonna give me um, just trying to make it like trying to make it seem like you're not being mean, but like you're being helpful. Okay, Um, your turkey call is not supposed to sound like a drowning duck in a pool of um sewage. Yeah, okay, that's helpful. Yeah, I mean, like you, I'm just trying to help you out. I mean, if you're going to see duck hunt and that's appropriate. But what your turkey calling? You know, just it's cluck cluck perr. Not hit me with a beautiful turkey call. Oh man, here he goes. It's my style, dude. I love it with no assistance from calls whatsoever. Sands call, no diet p rams, no way tax involved, no see um uh turkey call company tried to uh like, man, you're really good. Like if I could say you had to make a lot of money, as I think this prostitution human traffy is not thinking that about for you know, Um, I I didn't mean to hit you that with this one when he came in, but but I had Uh. I became interested in you. Yeah years ago though. Um so you're saying you should been stalking me for a while. No, I happy. I stumbled into you and it was here like right now, we're in National Tennessee or at the National Wall Turkey Federation Annual Convention, um, the big show. And years ago I was here and you were you were just like on the show floor and there's a bunch of people gathered around and you were turkey calling, and I remember being like, how in the world does this guy do it without? Um the assistance of a call like just to make the noise. And then then I just did various bits of research and looked in and heard, um, you know, a story that you probably by now maybe you're sick of telling. I'm gonna make you tell it again and then talk about your life after that. But uh, explain a little bit so two thousand five, Um, well, let me backtrack a lot further than that. So I always grew up honey, right, I mean that was my passion growing up. And when I was a little kid, my dad would take me rabbit hunting, and just you know, I fell in love with doing that. So I wan't in Louisiana, South Louisiana, where it's hot and every snake wants to kill you. There. It's a terrible place to live on cotton tills, don't there. Yeah, if you can avoid cotton mouse, it's uh, it's a fun place to live. But it's um for me. You know, growing up there, I there was there wasn't as much variety um to hont as far as you know the other states. To me, we had deer and you know, duck hounting. I never got to duck hunting down there, but you know, we had a certain amount of animals that we've been hunt there. Um, so I just kind of picked and choose what I can hunt. So I grew up rabbit hunting, and then at the age of eleven, I uh started doing research and I I want to deer hunt. So age of eleven, I went out by myself and took my dad's thirty out six and I killed my first year. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't even know what. Uh. I killed a button buck and I didn't even know the difference at the time because I would do until I've seen the little nubs on the horn when I got to it. So, uh, that was a rush for me. What else did you got? What else did you guys hunt? Like, give me the full game of what you hunted in those years in southern Louisiana. So for me, my whole family was a small game hunting family. So you know rabbits, We had square dogs that actually had competition score dogs. Yeah, so we traveled the country with dogs and competitions and you guys have all the tree and dogs, and you guys have like raccoon dogs and stuff. Yeah. So my dad had hounds for um, raccoons, But I just I don't want to stay up all night chasing behind a ringtail and just I just you know, I stuck to my square dog of my rabbit dogs. That was my passion. So you had obviously separate dogs, right, yeah. Yeah, so we had UM. We had beagles for rabbit dogs. We had um original Mount Curse for score dogs, and I think he had UM. I think he started out with walkers. I think that's what he kept for coon houses. Walkers. Did you guys live in the country, No, Yeah, we were in the city. Yeah yeah, what about fifteen dogs? And and every neighbor he ran into hated you. I mean we got hate mailk twice a week. It wasn't bad, but all the dogs, probably because I was in the front yard skinning recular or something like that. Not technically, I mean, but it was. It was one of those deals where you know, I just growing up, growing up back then compared to now so much different that that was um more acceptable, Like it wasn't it's frowned upon the back then. Yeah, but like now if I try, you mean to be like a hunting family out skinning stuff out and whatnot? Yeah, No, that's ah now in like today's society and generation like that's frowned up on and like terribly yeah, you know, even like we live in in uh southwest Montana, you know, and um, one of the guys who worked with Seth he had a he had like a deadhead bocky found, you know, and um, he had it out in his yard and he could overhear the neighbors like aghast about this guy's got a deerhead in his yard. And that's sort of disgusting. It's like what the world called. It's Montana, man, you know. So funny story that just actually happened last what's to day, Thursday? So it happened Sunday. So I just moved through Tennessee. So I got an apartment here. Um I was coming home Saturday night. I hit a deer. Okay, but this is about to be a crazy story. So I hates his deer. And if for people that listen don't know, I'm in a wheelchair, so I'm truck. I have a lift to lift my chair. I want it off the truck. So it had just knits, snowed, the ground's wet, everything like that, and I'm all right, well, I just hit this fresh deer and not about to letting get waste. So I pulled in side road. I backed my truck up to put the gear and back to the truck. I thought I could lift it by myself. It turns out back up, but you're down. Like you get in your you get in your wheelchair, you're down on the ground. Any wheelchair. I get out of my truck in my chair, and then in my chair, I'm in my chair. So i'd roll around to the deer and I'm trying to like lift it up to put it into bed in my truck. Huh, Okay, that didn't work out. Cars are blown past. Actually it was like, this is where it gets interesting. The road that I was on was closed, but it's where I lived because of all the flooding around here. I don't know why it was closed. I don't know why, but I overheard somebody saying that there's like six counties around Nashville that are closed right now, and I was thinking, how can you close an entire county. Yeah, it's been flooding pretty bad, Aim, But I don't know why the road was closed. But like it was like only one lane that was closed, So I just kind of went around the sign um, which I probably shouldn't have done. Um, so I'm sympathetic. I understand. You know, my house was a mile away from there, so I mean it's like I'm not driving all the way back around instead go do it. So I'm trying to lift his deer up and back in the truck. It doesn't work, so nobody's coming by, so it's by myself. So I'm like, all right, well, I'm just gonna use my lift on my truck to like hoist his deer up. It's kind of like a crane. So I was like, all right, I'm gonna do that. So I dragged the deer to the side of the truck and I try and like you want this, dear bad listen. I had just I just got a brand new truck, okay, and if I hit a deer with a brand new truck and like a damn it, I'm gonna get something at it. So I mean, I gotta pay the insurance. Gonna be expensive, deer. So I uh, I try and like pick the deer up enough to like get the rope around it so I could put it on back in my truck, pick his deer up enough to like where um my body shifted and my chair rode. I'm up, I gonna be down the hill. So now I'm sitting on side of the road with a deer cross my lap. My chair is gone, and uh, I'm still trying to figure out how we need this. So can wait by the way and grounds wait. So I finally crawled back to my truck, get to lift, hook it up, and I uh get to dear in better truck. What I didn't realize is I needed to lift to get my chair on back in the truck. M So now I gotta tear with situations. I finally get all to take care of the next day, this is going back to skinning in the yard. The next day, buddy of mine comes over and uh, we're trying to figure out what we're gonna clean his deer at. Literally we take it to my apartment, through the house and skintting on the porch. That's good thinking. Yeah, if they hear this, I'm probably gonna get you. Yeah, Like your landlord right now is like, hold on, what's this dude's name? Yeah, I just running this dude in the place. By the way, my name is John Travolta. Yeah, Well show me where it says that in the least, you know. Yeah, yeah, was it a bucker dough. It was a small dude, So you got to the freezer. Oh yeah, I'm gonna have a it's probably backtraps this weekend. You got a girlfriend, No, I do not know, so you don't have anybody cooking for No, I can't cook with the crap. So I'm gonna burn his deer. Just let you know. So let's go back to when you were younger, Like you're loving and you strike off and go figure out deer hunting. Yeah, so I figured out and yuh and what kind of area you hunting and like like like public land or you guys know people we had, um, friends of my dad's. We just you know, go hunt in their place and it's we're hunting the swamp. Sometime we're hunting, you know, a lot of pines and wheezing animal were um, there's some hardwood timbers, um. But it's it just depends, you know, every every hundred miles, it's the rain changes a little bit, so you know, you never know what you're gonna get into. Um. So after that, like the next couple of the next couple of years, I was like, all right, I'm really intrigued by deer hunting. So my dad had a cabinet shop. He's um carpenter, and like he was a working shop. And while he's there, I'd go hunting. I go back behind place and hunting, um and then going on a little further. I h came across turkey hunting magazine, TV shows or whatever however, found it and I was like, okay, cool, I want to turkey hunt. You know, I wanna hunt all year round, so I want to go rabbit hunting morning, deer hunting afternoon. With spring time. I want turkey hunt. So and your old man wasn't a turkey hunter. No, no, nobody know, like saying my final family small game hunting, Like they didn't know anything about deer hunting, turkey hunting, none of that. Um. So I was like, all right, I'm gonna getting books, you know, go Walmart, by some calls, stuff like that, just to try and do it. So we get all that stuff take care of and uh we go turkey hunting. One Sunday, I church and uh we're sitting there in middle of day and uh, I'm about yards with my dad and UM start calling and I'm an okay, caller at this time, I was okay, and uh and what what kind of calls were using back when you used to use calls? I think I had, um, like, uh, one of those pushbox calls. I think this would have had. And uh, I don't remember what my I think my dad had a a slate call. Whatever you had it sound it's so bad. Here's the worst turkey call ever. So I'm I'm like, I'm a bit better better than your dad. It's it's a close race, it's very close race. So um, how this turkey game like this is? This is like where I'm gonna take credit from you because as bad as he called a turkey, steel came in. So well, here's the thing, man, I want to clarify. I am deadly on turkey. I get all kinds of turkeys. I prove a point. Steve called in a turkey for me last spring. I prove a point by getting I use my bad I use my my poor calling time everything everything else I do nice and I you know, and I drive around in my vehicle now calling to practice more. But we're not here to talk about We're here to talk about my So you know this is this is This is a theory I have about turkey hunting. Turkey hunky is like dating at a bar. I like it already. Already. It's like going to a bar. Like the time that you want. You have to have like a high class call to get his attention. The later in the day, the drunker, the worsher call can be, the more he's interested. Like I said, there's a ten at two and a two at ten. I go the same with turkey hunting. You could sound like the worst hand in the woods at ten o'clock in the morning. He gets away from his hand, no matter that it's easy bird to kill. If he got what you could kill him. Yeah, that's interesting. I do kill a lot of turkeys around ten am. We're just talking about I like the way we said it better though, you know to remember that, all right? So I want to keep tracking what happened. What happened you get into into a transformed in many levels of transformative accident that you get into turkey hunt. Are we on like the turkey hunt? Yeah? This is a hunt? Like we, uh, my dad, we go down this place. We you and your old man are hunting together. Yeah. Yeah, So we go to a place where we rabbit hunted, and um, I found if we're going down its gravel road, I find a feather in the road. I was a hundred percent sure that it was a turkey feather. Looking back at it now, I'm pretty sure it was like a hawk feather. So I'm not sure that turkey's on this place. So we go set up and um, just based off the presence of a feather, I was thirteen, Steve dogging on it. I'm not dogging on just want to make sure I'm understand like you like, you're just not you're not hearing gobbles and whatnot. No, no, no, it's it's like, I don't know, ten eleven o'clock in the day. You know, we just first time. We're just going out there, like I think he just wanted to shut me up as a kig, and that's all I talked about. So we go out there and we, you know, kid yards far from each other, and he's sitting on one tree and I'm sitting on another tree, and we're calling back and forth, and uh, he had a twelve games of double buck shots and I had a fourteen. And I'm not gonna lie to think I had like a slug in here or something like that. I was like, it's bigger than a chicken, shoot a bigger load. Yeah, I mean that's that was just my mind to you guys. Just weren't you guys weren't tuned into the rules and whatnot. No, no, first, turkey hu, I'm not gonna lie to you, Steve, like, I did not do my research on this part. You're a kid man, Yeah, it's just you know, one of those things now, I know, because I never want to get a shot what Yeah, I mean I grew you know, there's a lot of Yeah, when you're young, it was all. It's all kind of you don't even need to apologize. Man, when you're young at a certain for a long time, you're relying on the people around you, like you rely on the people around you to know like what's up and what you're supposed to do. And even when you know, I found it being young, even when you know stuff you're not supposed to do, if the older people around you do it, you just took it as being that that's like how you would do it. You know, it's funny that you brought that. I gotta tell tell them, buddy, my other day is like growing up as a kid, like I didn't know what no trust back, So it was you see what was that went hunting? I mean that was It's a different time period, but I mean I didn't know what a no trust backs. I was my old man would go down the road if if someone had too many up, he'd think it was kind of an eyesore and him, his body, Eugene would go down and they'd take him down. Just different, different, different generation man. And then when you're young, it's like, you know, you have to be pretty old to question your old man like you were your old man's I don't know, I assume my old man knows what's going on. I know I knew that there was laying there, his animals own, and I want to go hunt. So we're calling and the turkey comes behind the uh behind the tree I was sitting on and uh, I can see my dad off to my left and he's getting ready and he don't see me, and uh, he don't see because he didn't know where you went and set up well, I mean I was wearing Roald Tree camouflage. I mean, I'm blended with everything. Shout out the road Tree for that, I'm just joking. So he doesn't see me because like, like I said, I'm tucked against a tree, and I think he's more focused on the bird. And when he shoots, like before he shoots, like I can see him, like put put the gun up, and like I could see the whole like everything going and he puts the gun up. The turkey no turkeys behind me, I can't so like, oh, I'm facing forward. He's to my left by twenty yards, Like I can't behind behind you, barely behind you. Yeah, So I I just stay still on the tree because I know that you know something is there. So I just stay still and um, I can look out of the corner of my eye, like I tilt my head just enough to see him click the safety off and pull the jugger, and I see fire. My body goes numb, ringing in my ears and like I just can't do anything, Like my body goes completely numb. He runs over, he picks me up, and uh he's carrying me out of woods. And I was like that you shot me. You know, he's got nine one in the phone. He's carrying me out of the woods and uh e m s gets there and he put me in the back of um, the back of the truck. And I was like, this is it. I'm done for Lord, just Lord, just protect my dad. It's it. How many of those buckshot pellets? Seven? Ye? I cat hit my esophagus, um, my left arm. I want hit my left arm across my chest. Two of my right arm. I still have one of my pelvits still have one of my right shoulder. Oh, my lunging stomach. And one hit my spine T one T two area. We're is that it's an upper um, like just right about the um mid chest. One hit your spine mm hmm. Yeah. And so that was your last like lower body movement ever was that day? And then the thing is, you know, I was, I was a point guard for basketball. I was you know, high up on the baseball. I mean I love baseball and basketball. I mean I was had a pretty good athletic thing going on. And uh it's like that in the moment taking away, So I uh I get that aside from your general running around in the woods all the time, from the sounds up yeah yeah, I mean yeah, no, I mean you couldn't have had any idea what was going on. I had no idea, you know, I knew that I got shot. That's all new and you couldn't but obviously you couldn't move no good day, like I had ringing in my ears, body completely numb. Huh, I mean it was. It was pretty much like I was life and I was just look, I had enough energy to look that's it. And what uh your old man carried you, but he makes a call and just carries you off to where an ambulance can get to. So I get into the back of the ambulets and uh, a blackout. The funny thing is, I didn't know I could get blacker, but I blacked out. So I wake up and there's his lights is a beautiful blond lady. She's like Josh, Josh. And I looked there like you're an angel. She's like, no, I'm your NURSEU. It's like, dang, your always trying to get your wing number one up. And uh. From there, you know, the doctors came in and I had I think I had thirteen surgeries and I died on the operating table twice. And I stayed in the hospital for I want to say three months, and they were suscitated. You. Yeah, thirteen surgeries and in within that three months. Yeah, it's crazy. Had uh like my whole like under my chest, like from my stomach down like past my belly button, cut open, my back, um, from the base of my neck all the way down my pelvis is cut open. Um, I just cuts down my side. I mean I look like Frankinsan just to be a clear vision of it. And and were you, um, were you conscious for most of this time part of this time, you know, with the accident. So when they transferred me from one hospital to another, Um, I don't know how it's happened, but they dropped me on a helicopter, so like on the like the guaranty would ever transform me. They dropped me on a helicopter. My head hit the base of it and it it put a I don't know, it messed my head up. Like so if I ever take my hat off, like I have a big um like a big missing spot in the scar in the back of my head. It's like my memory is like very bad it from it really so so what like what's the state of your father while this is going on? Honestly, couldn't tell you. I mean I wasn't. I wasn't. I just can't. I it was it just your dad as your mom around to my mom's around. My whole family is there. But I mean being in the hospital of so long, I mean I was on so much medication and you know the fact that I couldn't even remember stuff. I don't know. Oh yeah, I got you. So you mean like during this month or three months, you don't know what your father or stayed was you're trying to stay alive. Yeah, I mean, I just, I mean I knew that I had people come visit me. I mean I I vagualely remember people come to visit me. Um. But other than that, I think I was so medicated that I slept most of it. I mean I just either that or I've blocked it out mentally. And I just I just, like I said, honestly don't know. So at what point did it become There's kind of two transitions. I'm curious about what point did it become that you that the dust settles and you know that probably barring some kind of medical you know, breakthrough that doesn't yet exists, you'd like probably never walk again. Uh when do you know that to be true? And then when how long goes by before you're sort of like ready to attack life again. So the doctors came in and UH said, you know you've been shot. You know you're paralyzed. You want me to walk again. But it's I'm not fully paralyzed. Like the bullet. It's severed my sponic corp but didn't cut it all the way. So it's the body super weird. Um So like I can like feel things, I just can't walk. Oh, but it's not like a normal touch. It's more like a tangling sensation. It's like for a spontic cordage. I can't regulate my body tempature. So if I get hot, it's like I'm you about to pass out, And I stay cold all time, even if it's like seventy degrees and wind blows because the spinal cord and I just can't regulate my bodies because it doesn't send those signals to my brain correctly. That's something I've never thought about before. No, no, So I mean I always say it just being like a movement thing. I never think about it being like other other functions. It message, it message your whole body up. I mean it just because I mean those the nerves that it trans it goes to your brain and it sends it back down to wherever, you know, even your fingers or like you want to move your legs, that all trans goes up your you know. That's I guess it's like a railroad going back up to your brain. You know. Just if that if it's cut, there's no signal, it can't receive that, so you just don't work. Do you are you able to? Um? Like, like if you say you imagine you want to move your leg, do you are you at this point remember like what that felt like to like without thinking about you like go to move your leg and it would move, like you still have the sense that you can make like the impulse to do it, but it just isn't answered. So have you ever heard like like you think it's called phantom like phantom pains. It's more like that. But I still have my limbs so I can like feel it, but it doesn't really do anything. So I guess like mentally it's there, but physically it's not so and it's aggravating. It's it's very aggravating. Um oh, I can only imagine. I never like when I first started doing therapy, I could have a little bit of like movement in my feet. Um intentional movement, yes, but I just I guess being in a chair for so long, my muscles just tightened up so much that he just I don't know if he just doesn't I don't know if it's my muscles just too tight, they just can't get the signal, can't get there. I have no and I don't understand it. So just one of those deals where I just we're all with it and keep going. Uh. Okay, of the second part, after your accident, you get clear about what your future is gonna look like that you're probably it's robbly hard to comprehend, but how many months or years goes by before you sort of are like that, You're back in like you're alive, You're a human being here on earth. There's ship you gotta do right, You're gonna like you gotta resume school, find a way to enjoy yourself. Like what is the gap? Like two weeks I got to the hospital and uh two weeks two weeks after me now the house whenever, right back, honey, no ship, Yeah, you gotta be toughier. Who stupid? Who did that decision? It was me? So um the thing was like I was being babied so much and I didn't like that, you know, and um, maybe which is one of those deals where I just like I don't want to be baby like that stuff happens, Like I'm not gonna be sitting here and be someone's like burden. And that's what I felt like. I felt like a burden to my family's take care of me. I mean, that's just my whole life just changed. So, um, one day my mom was in the house. I was like, look, I went hut and she's like what and she was like, I will finish killing you, like you're you're not going hunting like so, uh, that day I made her very mad because I went back hunting in the wheelchair obviously. So from that point, I had to uh learn how to adapt. I mean, it's it's it was a hell of a challenge and it still is, you know nowadays. But going from like using your limbs and then like transferring to a chair and trying to figure out how to get across logs and rocks and stuff like that, that's hard as hell. Like that's challenging, but that challenge is what drives me, Like, that's what makes me want to do more, like if I see something that I can't do or I feel like it's not in the card, like that makes me insane, Like that makes me want to do it even more so going out after the accident that made my drive and pass. We're honey so much more. This guy, this sounds like a dumb Maybe it's not a dumb question if you can think about it this way. What you know, you're only thirteam when you when you were injured, But what percent, like what percentage of the places right that you might normally have gone became just inaccessible to you? I mean, yeah, yeah, so you were off stopping through the swamp and oh yeah, it's I mean honestly, like I could roll through the yard. I was gonna ask, like your home situation, yea, Like did your dad have to do some serious carpentry work on the bomb? Yeah, I mean I had to like get a ramp and like like everything had to be modified. I mean just I mean the house at stairs had to get a ramp or um widden bathroom doors or whiten doors for um, the bedroom where um making cabinets lower for me to get into them, and stuff like that. I mean, like everything at that moment changed. I mean it's one of those things where you go from you know, having a normal life to like you mean it's pretty much having to depend on someone or have things accessible for you, um and your lifestyle. I mean it's just like in a instant, it just changed. So I mean, like saying your daily activities. You know, if I just wanted to you know, get up and go take shower whatever, I mean, it took me a lot longer to just to do that, um, like getting dressed. I mean it make may have taken me, you know, three minutes to get dressed normally. I mean that transferred their fifteen minutes. You know, just because I have I have to pretty much my arms and my my my arms and my my crutch for my legs too. So it just it just makes it a lot, makes things a lot harder. I think transferring from like my chair to a car to a tub or two, the mad all that made it so much challenging. And then liked thirteen years old, like I was a scrawning kid, Like I didn't have much at all to throw my weight around. So I mean it just it made everything that much more challenging. What was how was your dad doing like, like, once it was clear that you were okay and you were ready to get back on it, was your dad just so guilt ridden that he was he wasn't able to function or was he able to be a dad, to do a good job being a dad despite that guilt. Honestly, I really I don't know. I mean, like, once I started getting back into, um, the hunting side of things, I think that it made him a little bit easier about situation, knowing that I wasn't letting it stop me. So I think that was like a settling point. I mean, obviously, I'm pretty sure you in the back of his mind, you know, he's like, okay, well he goes this is you know, because of me. Um. I mean, I'm pretty sure you had guilt for that, But that time period, I just I just don't remember that much. Do you think, like, looking back on it, do you think that um, for a dad in a situation like that, do you think it's better for the dad to just carry on and be strong or do you or do you think of someone wants to see the guilt. Honestly, I don't. I mean, it's life, life happens. I mean, no, you you have no control of the cards, So holding yourself at blame and being guilty or having that guilty conscious about it. I mean, of course, you know you're gonna think about it's gonna beaning back of your head and all that stuff, because you know that's that's life. You're here human, that's what's gonna happen. But I don't think. I think guilt will um drive you to an early grave if you let it. And I think him seeing me push forward and not letting it get a hold of me made him a lot stronger. Oh that's an interesting way you're looking at it. Yeah, did what was your feeling about? And you've been injured by a firearm, But I mean you started hunting right away. You didn't have any sort of like you didn't have um fear of or anger towards toting a shotgun around the woods, like you didn't look at it like, man, that's the thing that almost took my life. Actually I did. I kind of had like a honestly steals it this day, I'm very weary around some firearms. That's why I love both hunting so much. I mean, it's just I've got to bow hunting. I think it's like fifteen sixteen, and I just really stuck with it. I mean, I don't try a lot of people. Gods, it's not it's not the it's not the fact that I don't trust them. It's just the fact that it's it's a man made item and anything you're wrong ang time. So I mean, I guess I kind of have a little bit of PTSD towards it. But that's understandable. I mean, yeah, I could also understand you said, and I never went in the woods again. Yeah, now, but I um, but even I'll carry I'll shoot an animal to rifle me. That doesn't bother me. But still at certain points, like it's just I just I have that PTSD. They just like that that mental images in my head. I just sometimes just freaks me out. Board than anything to tell people about, Um, how you became interested in in turkey calling and realized that somehow you're injury like manifested in such a way that you were able to have this like super special talent. How that's easy. I didn't have friends growing up. I'm just joking. So, um, well, I didn't know if you could tell me that your friends bailed on you because you were in a wheelchair. I don't know, no, uh, then the herd a little bit. Yeah, so uh in high school, like I was like, like the cafeteria is like half a mile from the school. It's like I had to get people to like push me down to the cafeteria. Stuff like that just became a pain. Like I felt like it was such a bird to like my friends and family. So I just I think my high school years started making me very independent and I'm grateful for that. Like really, yeah, I'm super grateful that, um because the fact is, like I live by the school. Like you don't know who you are as a person until you were absolutely alone, and you know I was. I guess I was comfortable, um being a dependent there, like depending on someone until I didn't have that someone and then figure out who I was as a person and leaning on myself more. Becoming more independent made me truly, um, like I don't know, it made me super interested in myself, like my capabilities, like what makes me tick? Like what's my passion with drives me? And I think that's what, um, those high school years did to me, because I mean I had friends, but I had to fend for myself. You know, um, I had people, my friends are going to lunch and just you know it's like, oh, you know, we forgot about Josh. And I'm like, all right, cool, I'm sitting here waiting on somebody to help me with launch. You know, it's already an hour pass and I still it eating. So you know, I just it built me. It started building my character. Um so I'm appreciative of that. Oh but man, I can imagine that just by no fault of your own, it could just is easily destroy your character. Man, some people, no, I mean your person becoming just like uh, sociopathics not the right works that has like such a I guess, like just like losing faith in people. Yeah. So I mean I was, you know, early on in my my years, I was at that point like I was how I was in such a bad place I was, you know, I felt like I was a bird everybody. I mean, I've contplated suicide. I mean I went through that whole route of depression, but having a mindset of you know, God left me here for a reason, and I battled God, I'm not gonna sit here lot to you. I mean I was like, you know, you say you love your child, Why would you do this to me? Like? What? What? Like? What were you thinking? Like? I had my battles, you know, I faced my demons and I've I've been down that route. But you know, being able to appreciate the little things in life makes it so much better as you keep going. Cherishing knows moments, I mean, And I think that's what got me through my darkest times was realizing that even though I had lost my legs, I still had so much more um you know, just being able to um sit back and be like, Okay, I still have life. You know, I still can breathe. You know, I still can do what I want to do, even though I have to do it a little bit different. You know, it's not worth me, you know, committing suicide or like taking myself away from my family, even though like I felt like that was a better where it's just an exit plan, you know, but it's not. It's not a good exit plan. When you thought about when you thought about suicide, was it were you imagining that it's um that it takes you out of it, like it takes you out of yourself, or you imagine it takes you away from all the people that you don't want to be that. You don't want to feel like a burden too, like who are you doing a favorite to you or your family? For me, I felt like it was more of a favorite to my family like suicide would have and that. Yeah, yeah, but I mean still like just obviously like it's like intense depression. Oh yeah, you know, super intenste depression like I was because like I said, I mean I had to depend so much on other people and they had to go out of ways just to make sure that I was doing something or like I was better, like I had to take medicine or like whatever the situation was. I felt like I was such a birden on other people that it may be miserable. We'd eat me up inside. Well, just the thinking of like you know what you said, Well, now it's an extra fifteen minutes to get dressed, and it's an extra ten minutes to do this, and extra this much time and this much time just and then to and that's just to navigate normal everyday life and then be like, but I'm also going to try to still hunt. It's just like the layers of complication. It just had to have been so daunting early early on especially you know, I remember the writer Jim Harrison, who we talked about a fair bit um. He used to suffer from horrible depressions, and he described one time being in such a state of depression that it was like he couldn't picture getting dried off with a towel after getting out of it. It It just seemed like too much of a hassle. And he talked about a friend of his one time demonstrating a very quick efficient way to dry off with a towel after the shower, and him trying to like memorize the how to do it because even that was just more than he wanted to deal with in that in that state, right, it's made a depressure right there. I mean at least did a shower as a plus side. So, uh, talking about the Turkey column man. So with my accident, like so, I had a bullet hit my soft case. Um, I had a breathing to my throat for a very long time, and the doctors came in and said, well, you won't be able to talk again. You're gonna need a trake. And when he told me that, I was like, you're wrong, No, I pulled. I actually pulled the tube out of my throat. I totally doctors like, now you're wrong and what I did so he thought like you could talk, but they're gonna do something to you that it will make it that you can't talk. The breathing tub was in my throat for so long that it damaged my vocal cords. So I was gonna need a track, like I was gonna have to talk with the Oh I'm with you now, I got you, I got yeah, and there this is just like an accepted it. Dude. It's Louisiana, our medical studies. It's not that great. Yeah, so it's just like oh you know yeah and yeah, had you listened to him, that's what would have happened. Yeah. Yeah, So um, I just I guess it was like itching or whatever. So I just I pulled his day on two out of my throat and it altered my vocal cords and or pulling the tube mountain dude. Yeah. So like I had to get us to like voice therapy after that, and like being thirteen, like my vocal cords never really matured. So like, yeah, but I wouldn't get I mean, sitting here talking to you now, I wouldn't get that sense mm hmm. Yeah, my vocal cords is never really matured, So I don't even I guess I don't even really know what that means, man, because I mean, like anyone listening right now, anyone listening right now that they wouldn't be like, wow, it's it's not like it's not like you know, I'm trying to think, it's not like talking to a kid. So okay, So so you're bringing that point up, So like I don't sound like a kid, but I can still hit a very higher pitch for for my age or whatever, because when I have acted, like saying, my vocal cords never fully matured because I had it to my throat and alter my vocal cords. So that's why I can go from like I'm talking now to like a freaking screaming out google. I mean, just because those vocal cords never really matured and I could hit notes like a soprano. Give me an example of behind. No, we're gonna get kicked out here, but all right, I can take zanta fe off here. You are you spell? Or you want to I want to specle Billiana Olk? Oh yeah, so is this like a thing you realized or just start learning how to make turkey calls, So I think, uh, what year was a two thousand? Summer two thirteen, I went to an outdoor express show in Louisiana and this guy was trying to sell me a turkey call, and I was like, no, I don't want to buy a turk call. Obviously I didn't want to buy a turk call. They've been a church shot turkyani. So like that was like, no, I think for me, you yeah, so um you better. So he was trying to like sell what his call like it sounded terrible, and uh me be like, I'm not a lie, like I grew up playing sports his point guard picture all that time. I was a little cocky when I was younger. So this guy was like trying to sell me turtle. He's playing like it's like that don't sound it good? So what kind of call you use? Me? Me a kid, a little cocky kid like I can do in my mouth, had no idea could do it, no idea. He was like, well, let's hear it. Like crap. This guy called me out of bluff and I was like, all right, do it again, and he did it. And I did the best that I couldn't mimic it. The owner of the company turned around and said, is that our call? He's like, no, that's a kid, and they ran me away from the booth. Really, so I went to uh inside inside of the expo and uh. Another guy was like, hey, that's pretty cool. Like I'm I feel like I just a compiens up. So I'm going around you practicing tune it out because I mean, I just got ran away from a Turkey color movie because it sounded good, and like a guy noticed it. It's like it sounds pretty good. Like what else can you do? I don't know. I just learned this ten minutes ago, so um, you know, people start getting like, oh that's cool, like can you do this animal or this animal? This an I don't know. So I started like YouTube and animal sounds and I just like with practice. But the way that that break it down is I would get an animal, figure out what sound it makes, and put it to the closest word, and I break that word down until it gets to that sounded. I just what's your word for a turkey yop? I think it's just yelp, but it's like a it's not it's not full, it's not a full YELP. So if I'm if I try and explain how to do a turkey call to someone, um, I would say, um uh it's yeo y e l P. Then you go y e e e l l P. Help help, help, and then you you extend that word. But in the cadence off, you want to have your at the end of you want your pitch to go just a little bit higher. So you want to you know, flood of your your your tongue just a little bit just to get that that full pitch out. And then once you get that down, you know, you just want to speed it up just a little bit. So then a little rasp on there too. So that's a part of the like the whole pool and two about so like I can like get to like a raspy pitch or like it gets like a older like a growl to it. I mean I can throw like three different turkey calls at you know, in a sequence. So um so when so at this point you're starting to learn out of call, but you're not at turkey hunt, so you probably marry this with the turkey hunting pretty soon, right, And I'm just thinking, like this is such a killer skill for a very specific crowd that you're no longer associated with. Yeah, so here's the deal. Here's the deal said like after this show, like people like, Okay, well what does can you do? It's like I don't know and not. This is like when Facebook was like becoming like I was getting to use Facebook a little bit more, like said, this is two thousand and thirteen. Like I think I was still like twenty years old something like that. So I was just learning about Facebook and I think I was just driving out a road one day, just being I don't know, just being a a dork, and I was like, turkeys is coming up, and I did this video and I posted and like people start sharing like oh dude, like you sound pretty good, Like you're goofy, but you sound pretty good. And people start sharing like, well what else kingdos? I don't know? And uh they're like, well they had this like animal call challenge they going on Facebook because I made like some sounds and uh. This is like going towards the end of two thousand thirteen. And then it got to the point where um, somewhat a buddy of mind notice it and he's like, hey, you need to come to a t A. I don't even know what a t A is. He's like, it's like a big archie trade show. I mean everybody goes there, like, Okay, I'll see what I can do. I had no intention to one you thought you should go there to do what though, and just I don't know. I guess to hang out and call I don't know, like I don't know. He was like, you just need to go, all right, cool whatever, I'll go. But but I say that, but I was shooting competition archery two, So like I guess that's kind of what he was thinking. Okay, so simultaneous to the animal thing like your hardcore shooting. Yeah. Yeahs Like after my accident, that drove me like further into wanting to do it more like my accident, like it it put a feel inside of me to want to do it more. Are you shooting against um? Like, are you shooting against other people who are wheelchairs and just shooting general? I'm shooting against everybody. Huh yeah, you got right back in there, man. Yeah. And so this is competition archery like shooting targets three three D shoots. Yeah, so your body's like I don't want to really, but your body's like, hey, man, go to a t A. Yeah, And you're like, I don't know why, but I will go. Yeah. So and then I met another friend of mine, uh curse, and she was She's like, yeah, I'm going to a t A. Let's meet up bear, because like, I've met these people from making an animals sounds on Facebook. I mean that's how I I met these people. It sounds yeah, man, looking back at it, it sounds funny, but so um the Facebook animal sound making. Yeah, I was like Dr Doolittle online, but I talked to animals in a different way. So it was like, all right, let's go to a t A and let's just like I had to meet up all right, cool? So I go and um, I mean my buddy robbed and invite me hang out with him. Everything's fine and kursten Um. She was like, hey, let's go around the show. It's like all right, cool. So we're going down this owl and I see Jim Shocking like he's like one of the only people I knew at this show. I see Jim Shocking and I freaked out and have a fangirl moment. Big nine ft tall dude. Yeah, yeah, I freak out. I have a fan girl moment, so I think, oh my god, there's Jimp Shocky and she was like, do you want to meet him? I was like, no, he's busy to get people around. He's just busy. So this girl goes through the crowd, like parts of the crowd like Moses Partner the Red Sea, and she's like, Hey, Josh, this is Jim Jim, this is Josh. I'm so freaking scared, like I don't say, hey, I freaking goose honky Jim Shocky. My nerves stick over so bad that I go was honk at this guy and he's like, did you just honk at me? I was like, hey, I guess I don't know that's what you're saying. Can I guess? I don't know? I was so nervous. So he's like that was pretty good, Like what else can you do? Like he makes some other sounds. So I just started like doing sounds, and like somebody took out a cell phone and videoed it, and uh, it got posted on Jim's page and got posted on Even's page. And then like some other people are around and like they just saw me doing these sounds. So like the whole show I was going around making calls for everybody, and like that's how I got my start. Like I went from me nobody from South Louisiana to when I got home, like my social media exploded, like it got really weird really quick. Um it just because because I'm from a small town like I was, I was that kid that was like so um, I didn't it wasn't sheltered, but I was in my own little world, especially coming from an accident and you know, figuring out figuring out life. Still now I'm in like the public eye, like everybody wants to know like who you are working to do and stuff like that. That's scared hell out of me. Like I'm not even a lot to you. Um. It just was so different only from you know, being from a small town and being exposed to the world and you know, you get all these people from all over the places, you know, sending you messages and things like that, I want to be friends. You have no idea who they are, So I mean it was it was a culture shock for me, honestly, and it became like it became like a business for you for a while. Yeah, Like explain that though, like like what like like what specifically, were you being did you want to being paid to do? I honestly cannot, Like if someone wants to do this as a business plan, I cannot give you a guideline to do. I will not recommend you go out get shot Josh Carney path to business. It's not it's not honking strangers. No. Well, I mean it's a little weird nowadays, but just that I wouldn't. I would not recommend that. Um. But you know, so I was, you know, doing these interviews for like radios and like radio shows and like just like no, like same stuff on my Yeah, yeah, but I was doing it like at the shows and stuff. Like people contact me like hey, like you know you do you want to come to an event? Like you know, we heard your story, Like do you want to come speaking to the event or wherever? It's like my my first event was at a church in uh across at Arkansas, the middle of nowhere. As a look, I've never did public speaking in my life. I don't know why are you're calling me? You got the wrong guy? Like I barely know how to make animals. Sounds like I just learned that an hour ago. But what were they wanting you? To come do. They wanted me to tell my story of how I overcame UM, how I got from a hunting accident to getting over it and getting back into um hunting. So that's what I did. I stumbled my way through that first show. But the good thing about it that was funny m hm. So I did comedy before I got to the hunting industry, so I was able to throwing a serious point covered with a joke, so like, I always kept the audience attention. So that right there is like what kind of built me into getting and speaking? So this show here is my first and like after that it went well so that well, maybe I can do another one from there. I just change a little change style. You know, did things, you tweaked the little things here and there, and I got better at it. And from there more people like, Hey, do you want to come speak at the event? Do you want to come to a seminar? Do you want to come UM host a disabled hot like do you want to do more stuff? I'm like, yeah, who's managing all this for you? I was doing it at the time. I mean I was, I was a young dumb and I didn't I I was, but you're doing paid gigs, right, I'm doing paid gigs. But you're you're just like, here's my fee, and negotiated and contract on a like. At that time, starting out, I had a a really cheap fee because I didn't know what I was doing. I had enough to like, hey, yeah, cover my gas, my expenses, feed me and give me a hotel. I'll be there. I had no idea when it came to business. So I was like, all right, well, I'm doing enough of these shows for cheap. Let me start charging, all right. So I was like, all right, cover my expenses five from the bucks, I'll do it. That became all right, well it's you know, it's it's getting better. Now I got a little money, I can go go back home, have you know, a little bit to play with. You know, it's like cool. I like that. From there, I started developing, Okay, well I'm getting more work than um. Then the the money, you know, I wasn't I was doing, dude, But I was overworking myself because I was on the road a lot. I mean I think two thousand fifteen, I hit like two sixty days on the road. No. Yeah, but all with hunting industry stuff. How much did it when you're doing this to your talk about all the time. And I'm guilty right now because I'm interviewing you right now, But how much should it become like did never be did you ever get in your head where you sort of had a hard time that you would separate you like as a fully formed person with like that you are like this embodiment of a story, mean that like you have like a narrative. You were injured horribly, um, you started hunting and you have this this gift to to do animal calls, um, and people just wanted to be like again and again and again and again, tell me about that, Tell me about that, Tell me about that. Does that cause like an identity crisis? Yeah? Yeah, it actually does so honestly, So like going it's it was super weird for me getting a guest to so like I had to live two different lives. Like when I was at events or shows or whatever, I had to be the son of the South, like that's what I went by, a son of the South. So I had a strictly show presence that I had to stick to. But outside of it, when I was like family friends, like I was Josh Carney, like I was just let's hang out, cut out myself. But when I went to a show, I was in that strictly like that entertainment mode. Is it Is it a requirement that you as not Josh Carney, but you as the son of the South. Is it a requirement of the son of the South that the son of the South is in a good mood? I'm always in a good way, that's the thing. Though you're able to do it. Yeah, I'm always in a good like. I mean, life has challenged me enough that I understand, like, bad things happened for a moment, and you can't let it ruin a day. So I made if something like bad happens, once it's over it, it's over with, you know, just keep moving forward. I mean, don't let sixty seconds of your day ruined the other twenty three hours and minutes. Dude, I'll lose two weeks off sixty seconds. No, I haven't been forged by fire, right, Yeah, I mean you just you just it. There's a lot of people like it takes a bigger person to do, and I think that's that's where I'm at. I mean, like, I just don't let a lot of things bother me. I mean, something can always be worse, and I think being able to like like over the years, I've done things with events with like kids with like cancer, like terminal illnesses and things like that, I think that humbled me as a person, Like they truly humbled me. Like I understand, like I'm in a situation, but there are people out there in worse situations i am, and they're happy about it, like they're grateful for what they have. So if I was bitter because I can't use my legs, like, that's efficient me. So I mean, knowing that it could be worse, it's something that makes me more positive. So if I have a bad moment, I don't let it affect the rest of my day. Well, we before we started recording, we talked a little bit about, you know, your sort of view of operating within the hunting industry and you grew tired of it. Like what's sort of like defined the hunting industry for me? You know, I mean and and and tell me like what it means to grow tired of it or want to move beyond it because you went to do you do like a totally different line of work. Now, yeah, I'm a totally different lot of work, so for me. So the thing about the industry for me was like six years in it, like I was m I don't want to say I was. I'm gonna be blunt. I was overworked, underpaid. Like when I went to a show, I was always someone's puppet, like do this, do that, do this, do that, and like I never got a reward out of it, you know. I was like, Okay, we're just gonna use you for like your social media or like whatever you bring to the table, and he and day. If we don't want you, we just don't want you. You know, do X y Z for us and we don't get you don't get anything out of in of it, you know. And doing that for so long it made me really bitter towards the hunting industry because it was always give me, give me, give me, and I never got anything return. I mean I met some good people along the way, but if it wasn't for speaking events that I was doing, I would have never made an industry. I mean it it broke me down financially, mentally, like physically, like I was on the road so much trying to pursue this image that I had built in the hunting industry just to stay afloat, and like I was. I was, I was expected to do so much from the audience and from you know, companies that wanted me to promote them for nothing. So that's where the whole persona But do you think it's like but don't you think it's because of just lack of management? You know that too. But so two thousand seven, I think that that could probably that could happen to many many people. Yeah, So two thousand seventeen, I had I hired a business one. So let me let me backtrack. So when I talked, I was talking to you guys earlier. So I had a guy that was trying to be my manager. He was a credential Let me let me just say like he was a used carse that was when if that says anything, okay, So he was a sneaking of grass. So he wanted to be my manager, like very shady chica dude. Um. But at the time I didn't know, I didn't know what manage it was. I was having fun. I was making a little bit of one here, and it got to the point where um, the things like I was more of a um token item for him to put money in his pocket. So learning that started burning a lot of bridge for me. So finally got rid of him and I went back to doing things well. So I met this girl, um, this lady Heather Shepherd, and she's my business partner. So we met. She booked me for an event. It was her her family event, and she booked me forward. I mean, from booking it to be getting there to the show's over, everything was like to the t um like she's like, hey, Josh, you know you have to be at this place at this time. You have to be here, here, your brakes here. You know. Everything was like to a t um I think at the end of the show, like her name went from Heather to boss lady, Like I mean, she was just strictly, you know, focus on making sure that everything was in line and right. So after that show, UM, I approached like, hey, listen, like I really don't know what the hell I know it and from seeing you work and how you um handle business, I want you as a part of my team. So she came on board with me, uh and thinking too that the seventeen and um we've worked together flawlessly from the air. So she took over that management position for me. So if someone wanted me to do a gig or event, I pulled myself out of it. I'd introduced to her, she take care of it. That became a lot better for me. But at that time when that's happening, I was already at the point where I was starting to get worn out and so like if it didn't fit, like you know, quieterias like Okay, I'm not gonna drive from Louisiana oil mean just to go on a free trip for exposure, you know, So just things like that. But as far as getting the sponsorship deals, I didn't understand that of a business. And she was so new to the industry at that time too that we were both learning. So I don't think it at the time. I think the way that we went about it could have been done a lot better. But I think it was a little too late for they also, So at what point did you decide that, let me put it this way, when you got burned out on sort of servicing the hunting industry in that community, Um, was your interested your interest in hunting go away? As well? Are you actively hunting right now? Are you just done with it? So two thousand eighteen was like my breaking point for the hunting industry. I had I want to say, probably eight detent SI bolsters and like we had like we were working like so with me. It had that we were working on contract agreements making sure everything was like right for the following you, to make sure everything went. This is sponsorships. That where they're giving you gear. Now, this is monetary sponsors and we're starting to make money now. So Um, we have agreements lined up. And back to the back to the other guy that was trying to be my manager. I did a hunt with him, Um and Texas, him and another guy. They made a video of me. Um. Obviously, I can't put my my leg on a turkey to stop it from flopping, so they put my wheel on a turkey, and I mean, I'm not gonna sit here a lot to you. I mean that was quote unquote my legs. So walk me through like you shoot a turkey, shoot a turkey, and this is all being filmed. Yeah, so I shoot a turkey. Um, turkeys on the ground and like we're doing like the b roll and stuff like that, and they wanted to make a video of me. Um. The whole storyline for this episode was me conquering, getting over Turkey, onting accident, getting back to Turkey hunting. That was the whole storyline, which is a story you're familiar with. Yeah, I was gonna say, yeah, yeah, so affect killer story after shoots Turkey, like they're doing a film and everything like that, birds on the ground, They're like, okay, well, you know, just like now you're in a wheelchair, Like this is the mindset. You're in a wheelchair because of Turkey. Hulley like, now we want to make it look like you conquered you know this, like you just slay the dragon. So like all right, you know, just like just put your wheel on the turkey's head like you just like defeated it. Yeah, this is like my first big like TV show. Deal man, I just seeing where this is going, you get it's so easy to get steam rolled, Yeah, because you're with all these people and they know what yeah, and you're not familiar with yet. You don't know, you don't understand that, you don't understand the end product, had no idea, but the end product is like that's that's what I'm getting to. So it was like it wasn't even like a like uh, terrible shot like it was just my wheel on a turkey. I mean I see people put their foots on the neck. I just had a wheel on it. That wasn't even the turkey. Like the worst thing I did that shot him in the face, the worst they could have done a turkey. So yeah, like preceded earlier shot with the gun. Yeah, I just wanted to stop flopping. I mean, like obviously the turkey gets back up, I can't run behind it. So I mean if I put my wheel in her head, he can't go anywhere, all right. So the guy and his part of whoever he was working with, they put a video together like I had, um it was it wasn't even it was the firm producer and editor. Video sucks so bad, Like a six year old could have did better. Like they had video like the b rolls like me looking at the turkey, like fanning it out and like just showing like me showing the coloration of the feathers and everything, and then like it goes to a scene where like my wheel is on a turkey head and like that was the finished product. So this this guy, it's it's like a terrible video. So the guy like you, hum, it's meant to be that it's all one continuous action. You you admire turkey and then lay it back down and run it over. I guess that's what they're trying to proceed. But it was such a terrible video. Oh but it was enough to make sponsors have an easy way out. So this guy, so I was doing um seminar that shows and speaking events things like that, and I had I was started getting monetary sponsors. The sky whoever I was working with affiliated with this guy said that the video too, and like I lost a lot of money over the stupid stuff. I mean like a lot of money because of a video of me shooting a turkey. And then like at this time, this is like when um, I don't know if you guys remember like the the big Beal thing when he shot that elk or whatever and left it. It's just like in Walming then yeah, oh well yeah shot shot accidentally hit a second old Yeah. Yeah, So this is like around that same time period, which is totally like that part of it shooting elk and and accidentally getting another one. That could happen lots of people, but whether or not you to it. Yeah, So the companies that saw this video, like, oh well, there's too much pressure on the hunting and issue right now. We don't need this being a part of our business floating around because you put your wheel on a turkey the head. So it's an easy way out. So I started losing contracts like but like, okay, I haven't seen this video. Is Let's say I went into one of these sponsors that you lost to deal with and I said to them, like, hey, what happened with I understand what happened with Josh Karney? Like what went on there? Like do your best job of telling what? They would say honestly, don't know, but you don't know that they like you can't picture like that. They would have a different story than what you're telling me. It's like he put his wheel, said all that it was. I put my wheel on a turkey's head. It's it. They're like, okay, well, honestly, it was an easy way out. But easy way out implies that they wanted out. They it's like, okay, well we don't have the budget this year. I mean it's like, okay, well now we have Oh whoa, you're doing this. That's not what we want to represent as a company. And then the video was perceived as such that it was um or being it was being pushed as something disrespectful against animals. But okay, I don't I don't want to like belabor this video issue, but it sucks so bad. Was the video? Was the video though? Was the video in the end? Was the video meant to do what it was supposed to do? Or did the video they put the video out there to be damaging. They put it out to be damaging, so they weren't like trying to make something great like so this was this was filmed for a TV show. They took enough of the footage from that to splice it down to make this video to send to the companies. So it was like it was intentional. Yeah, they had a it was a vendetta for something, maybe you don't even know what that the owner of the show and the producer got to it. And the producer was the guy that was trying to be my manager. So the owner of the show, once they got to it, the guy was trying to take down everything that the producer had. And I was in that mix of it. And at that time I was being very successful and I was on a lot. I had a lot of tension on me. So it was a very easy and it was very easy. I was a very easy target. I mean even hectic that the guy still tries to use the video to send to people. I'm like, dude, that was five years ago. Yeah, five years ago. So it's just yeah, I've met some very I've met some great people, honey and showing me wrong. But for every good person, I've met a lot of shady people too. I mean, do you think it's is it hunting or is it like business? I think it's both, to be honest with you, because it's from the business side of it, Like, no one's gonna show you. A lot of these people are gonna show you their true colors, like they're gonna want you to do for me personally. Like I was, like, I'm gonna go back to what I said earlier. I was a puppet, Like I brought the attention to a company for them to make a buck out of it, and I didn't make a dime you, So I was just and I was just a token item for them to gain something. What was the last time you did uhum, what was the last time you did a talk? But gave a talk? My last yeah, my last speaking event had to be last year. Um, Like I said, I took a I took a huge break from the whole hunting industry at the two eighteen. Oh I said, I lost a lot in that industry. And uh heck, I mean I went to the show. I came back. Oh man, I had a heart attack. I mean it's it's stressed me out so bad that literally a heart attack. I flew back home. I went to the uh gym later to night as I was stressed out. I mean, this is like this is like my shot, Like I just started finally started to make money and like I lost. I mean I lost a lot of money at a show because of that video. It was time for the show. Oh yeah yeah. And then the bad part, like everything that was happened, so like going back to like the bad moments, Like I was letting those bad moments pole up. So I had just got turned down, um on a a good contract. And after they turned me down, the guy that producing and send it out walks up and I was livid, like emotion like I was. I was in a different state of mind at that point that it was it was a miserable show for me, Like it was eating me up inside, like a horrible show for me. Then another thing I was losing. I was losing um spots of like being Uh, this is a time phrase where the hunting industry was so fo focus on, you know, being a cute blanche chick, you know, half naked doing shows just to get you know, promotion, and I felt, really I felt that it got away from the value of hunting that I was just I don't know, I guess I was just a little bitter about it because I mean I was losing. I felt like I was losing out to um people that wanted to be something that they worked and like I just I got caught up in that realm of trying to be someone else that I lost focus on who I was. Like, I just like I didn't understand the fact that you know that I was getting caught up in that mix. So yeah, I know, yeah, there's like you know, I mean sex cells and everything. I mean definitely sells underwear, yeah, and all kinds of stuff. And yeah, like you know, as much as it's even fair to talk about like the hunting industry as well as this sort of like defineable, containable thing, I know what you're talking about when they became this it's it's not like this male fantasy thing where it be that, um, you know, you have these people that are like, oh that you know, they're so beautiful and and they like to hunt. And it's like this like complete total package, right that that you like present as a as a marketing thing. It's like all my problems, I'm lonely and I have no woman, and now look this one's beautiful and she would appreciate my hunting prowess. Not only that, but she loves the hunt, and that's how I will sell products. Yeah, old creepy gather. So so from from so back to that se I like when that was going, like I was like, all right, well a lot of these people can't Like it was so um it was so instant bottled. The honey industry became so instant mottled that I was like, all right, cool, this is not even honey anymore. It's Hollywood. Like it's not like something that I was like I was. I was one of those guys that I was a rebel. Like it was like, look, I bust my butt to go out here and do it, and I have I know what I'm bringing to the table. I don't feel that it's right for me to lose something to somebody that just picked up a gun two weeks ago. Guild Animal, you felt like you had a product, yeah, and but you were losing um some of these opportunities, some of these paid opportunities, folks that didn't even have a product. I felt that I brought more value to the table than what I was, um, what I was getting out of it. And to lose a spot to someone that had no knowledge, couldn't teach you about anything hunting related, to lose it to a cute face, I just I was in a very ill mood, so I made it. I made a post and it wasn't even um like. It wasn't bad. It was more information or anything saying how the hot industry was just becoming um more of that sex cell type. And it flared up a lot of attention because I'm one of those guys like I will say, like I will say what the rooms? That will you say like everybody's taking it? Hell, I'm just gonna say it. I'm a clear elf. Now That's what it was. It was one of those deals. Well, it's a it's a super sensitive subject though man, because there was a lot of that's a supersensitive subject. It's a supersensive subject because the hunting industry traditionally was not hostile in cases hostile the women. Um I had sitate to say hostile women, not as inviting the women, meaning right like people to buy a hunting license are guys timber center women? Um, I don't think. I imagine that you would always have I don't picture a world in which you would be equal representation between men and women. I don't picture that. But I feel if Dad's and whatever dad's granddads didn't have such a strong bias towards the boys in their family, in favor of the boys of their family and against participation from women, we would land not at maybe be seventy thirty female. There's no way it's gonna be. I think there's like I think there's biological factors that would prevent, but it wouldn't be. So there is a thing where, Okay, to increase female representation and hunting is important, to hear women's voices about hunting and hunting is important. But I think that there's also like a thing that I recognize it too, which is very much. Um. People take that need but then they can't help themselves. But to like sexify it. Oh yeah, no doubt. And I want my dog I got. I have a seven year old daughter. I have like I don't overpressure her, but she is very clear on the fact that her dad very much wants her to go hunting and fishing, to the point where I want her to feel a little guilty when she doesn't go. Do I then need to have it turn like do I want her to to hunt in a bikini top? No? I feel like she could look roughly like her brothers, like the same basic get up that her brothers are comfortable and should be suitable for my daughter. So this thing that we're talking about, like, I recognize, it's very complex to be like everything. Man, it is complex to the point to where is if your daughter was like, yeah, but dad, what I want to do is hunt in a bikini top, and then you would have to be then and be like I really want you to go, dude. That's a great point, man, because that would be what if? What if? Yeah? What she said to me, this is how I like to do it. I like, I wanna, um, I love it. It's like this, make it fun like this, What am I gonna say, like, no, you cannot go in that bikini top? She's seven right now? Is I'm not there yet? I got time to figure it out. But yes, it's hard to deal with. Yeah, And so then you throw and you go. You look at the demographics, right and you throw somebody, anybody up on a poster, and the marketing persons like, I want that poster to represent the middle of the Bell curve, the vast majority, to draw the most people in, you know. And and so you get in this conversation where it's like there, here's this very very pretty girl man whatever, um you know, is that representing the majority of the Bell curve? Is that bringing in the most people. It's gonna represent some some faction, but it's not going to represent them all. Yeah, they're they're advertising a water park in the elevators in the place we're standing in right now, and advertising for the water park are families, and the moms in the things are in bikinis. But it's like, not sexualized. It's a water park and there's families. I think it's not sexual I think a bikini is more appropriate for a water park than stay. Yeah, I just want to say, like, I don't want to overemphasize the bikini aspect this because there are places where people you know it should be uh you know, every runs around, but man, a little bit the final COMPLEXI this is all to say about it, because not all want to say about it. But the other thing I found is that women don't necessarily want, don't necessarily need forty six year old dudes like me explaining this to them. So I get it. I get it, but I understand what I understand. So where where'd you go from there? I take a really uh like a detoxic break. I mean I I still had a couple events and a couple of companies that I was working with, and um, I I just kind of I fell off the radar a little bit to figure out who the hell I was because I was, like I said, I I focused so much on big this persona to fit this hunting image that I didn't know who I was an he wore. And I want to ask about your friends group too, because before you were like, well, one way with my friends group and one way with your friends group. Are they? Um, do you have a bunch of folks like in your core friends group that are like, let's go hunting, let's go hunting, or are they not in the hunting world? So I not industry, but like like to be outdoors, like like hunting. I have friends that are in the industry that I will go hunting with um. But when I wasn't of value to them, I lost a lot of friends. I mean, if I didn't bring it to the table, whoa you know. And the funny thing is, like I think like to like the pretty trade shows, like we're all buddy buddy shaking hands. Oh my god, I miss is great to see all this stuff for the rest of the three hundred sixty days, three and six whatever days, I don't even worry from them. I don't know who you are. You go to a different show, they're like, oh, well who are you? I mean like that's the kind of that's the kind of people like we're running with it, this industry. Like if it doesn't benefit them at the time, then you know, you're just another sticking away. But man, I think that you're no, no, no, no no, I'm not I'm saying that. You're like like, I'm not saying it for anybody. I just have a bad I have a bad um sense of picking people. But I think you're talking about people. I don't think you're talking about the hunting industry. But I'm like, I don't know, Like if we're in cosmetics industry, I feel like maybe would have found the same thing. I'm pretty sure it's in every industry. I'm not trying to like stand around and like stick up for you know, like I play in the hunting industry considerably. I'm not sitting around trying to be their advocate in mouthpiece or something. But I'm just saying, I feel like it's just you found out some ship about life to say this is just specific to this. No, no, no, no, I I agree it's it's it's in life in general. But I was so stuck in that round, like that's what I was surrounded wish I understanding understanding from them. But now, um, you're you're you do want to come and like you're ready to talk again, but you want to talk to new people. Yeah, I mean not like I don't mind talking about I'll talk to anybody. I'll talk to the wall. I'm gonna bother me. I'll get you certain trouble in some quarters. I mean, like speaking is like what your eyes are, Like, I just want to get I want to get out of that scene, like because like I was so saturated and a in the whole hunting in issue round like I didn't know anything else. So like now I'm just like, okay, well it's not for me to you know, venture out and do more stuff. What what industry working in right now? Like you just went like during your detox, you just went working in a completely unrelated world. Yeah no, I'd like from my detox, like I went from so like I went like this is how like crazy was. I went from um, you know, driven in a hunting instrue guy, Like I finished, like I think last spring, I did like a Turkey Turkey tour. I do a Turkey too every year. So I did that and like after I finished that, like I got back home, was like all right, cool, Um, I love hunting up happy hunting, but I don't want to stick in this round anymore. Like it's just like it's not what makes me happy, like it it took a lot of the passion away from me. So I left there and I worked at a freaking car dealership like completely opposite of anything. But I wanted to get into the field of the real world and get out of you know, this saturation that I've been in for so long. So I did that from there. Uh it was That was the worst shop I've ever had. Like that was way worse than anything every did. Would hunt the entry. It's terrible. So if anybody every wants to buy a car, you do not call me. So you're trying to sell cars? No, no, no, no no. I wasn't it salesman. I was UM it's a b DC is what it's called. So like I would be the person to um get people in to um buy cars. It was more like a UM, let me come you like this, let me introduce you to our top sales gas. Yeah something like that. Yeah yeah yeah. I even grew the hair out, like I had the whole car salesman. Look, car salesman has longer hair. Well, I mean, you know, the slick back like the ninet eight car salesman with like the old suit, like the slick back hair like too much gas. Yeah, that was me. I grew my hair out everything like it was terrible. It was I was going through some rough times back then. He can cast where so it was your dad, right because he's this hounds man. Those are very dedicated people. Um was he supportive of you as he like proud of you, uh you know, quote unquote making an name for yourself in hunting or was he kind of like I don't really know about that side of hunting now, I think my families would was supportive about it. I mean honestly I was. I was, and I'm still one of those guys. If I want to do something, just had to do it, you know, like they didn't have a a particular say so on me. Just packed my bags that were going, honey go and try across world. I mean like I would literally leave my house one day and I'd come back two months later. I mean, it's just that's the decision that I wanted to make in life, you know, And that's what I was so focused on being successful and accomplishing things that I sacrificed a lot. I mean I sacrificed a lot of time. I sacrifice, Like I remember, I I think I went three or four years without being at home for crystalers and thanks even like I just I never saw my family because I was always on the road trying to be in that next level of success. So I mean, I I they were supportive in that fact that you know, I was driven up to do that. But you're thinking now about now that you kind of dusted off, you're thinking now about going back out in the world to talk to people again. Yeah, I mean that's that's what that's my passion. Like I think, you know, everybody has a gift, and my gift is to UM I'm a I'm a people pleaser, like bad situations to get situations, Like I can figure out ways to um make a situation be viewed from a different aspect, and like, I think that's what really drives That's what I'm really passionate about. UM. So what's the Like, what if you're going to talk to people and you have an audience in front of you, UM, what's the takeaway? Like the takeaway of your talk isn't that you're a people pleaser? No? No, no, no. So I think it's more about um overcoming life. You know, everybody's faces with challenge and obstacles with the life. You know, it's either it's either you fight through it or you give up. And you know, I was at that point where I wanted to give up many times, and I never did it because I knew that if I kept pushing through, I kept fighting, like it would eventually get better. It's not gonna be easy, but it's gonna get better. And once it gets better, you know better, it gets too phenomenal. And I want to be at a phenomenal level in my life, you know. And there's like a lot of people that struggle with things on a daily basis. Everybody struggles with something on a daily basis. So if I can get someone to figure a way too understand that what they're going through is not something that they have to go through or have to stay in that situation like that is what like I want to present. I mean, because like that, we are only here to deal with bad issues for a moment our lives. It's not gonna take over our lives, you know. So being able to present a different side and a different outlook on life to someone is what I want to present to people. Um, I've had people that have been in way worse situations I have, and they have failed to understand that life stunt over. You know, you can still move on no matter how dark your days are. I mean, like after every storm and sunshine, I mean there's something better for you in life. You just have to understand it. It's out there. You have to keep wanting it, you know. I think I think about when you bring that up, is just haven't been uh always just like you know, just like blessed and lucky right now you but me, I just you know, like I don't know, just lucky. And sometimes I'll wake up in the morning and my kids will come down, all three of our kids will be coming back with me, my wife, you know, And instead of thinking like you're saying, like I want to get I want things to get better and better and then phenomenal, I think like, how could this perfection continue? Like there's no way, like something bad has to happen, Like like how could how could one get so lucky? And I think they have probably there if there's a blessing to having just like such a major setback like you had, it would probably too to get some reality there, you know, Like what I remember one time being down in Florida and we're like on the beach, me and my wife on the beach from Pham vacation. We only had two kids at the time. The kids are playing, they're like helping you already somersaults and like things are so perfect, it makes me feel like something bad is coming. What happened? No, there you go. Well, you know what, what we didn't know at that time was we had firmly agreed that two kids was more than enough, and we didn't know that. It's funny that story particular is we didn't know that at that moment she was pregnant with our third, which was like kicked the nuts. But in the end, yeah, in the end, it's like, you know, like everybody like everybody says, like such a blessing, right, and it is, it's amazing. But at the time, so when she's that's what we laughed about. Later it was like something bad another kid. This kind of back cuddling. That what Cal asked about your dad, Uh, how how your dad felt about you kind of getting so deep in the industry. But I kind of wanted to know, you said, you say that you don't really remember what kind of guilt your dad was carrying, like shortly after the accident. Ten years pass after the accident, then you start to kind of make a living and gain nationwide, worldwide attention from not only your calls but also retelling the story, a big shot by your dad, And I mean you think that after ten years there's probably a lot of healing, healing happening like between just like with the guilt he was carrying maybe that and then all of a sudden, it just like it was it like a wound opening back up for him that you were touring the country telling this story. Do you think there was any like obviously he was probably proud of you for for getting up there and becoming a speaker. And but after I already do you think there was any resentment at all? You know, it's kind of what it deals was like, Hey day, you remember that time you shot me? Yeah, here's a video and you're gonna watch this here now it sounds very sad piano music. Yeah, like very depressing. And they're like, okay, yeah, give me a credit card, like I want to buy a truck. Like it's that I don't guilty of Anybody has a big you know your dad Okay, Oh yeah, my dad's fine. Uh. We don't turkey out together anymore, communicate with him, but you know I'm talking out together. I mean it's a different subs every different day. But now, I mean for as far as you know, opening that well, I don't think I think it's healed. I honestly think it's too. But being able to show that it it didn't hinder me in life, I think that that's something that has helped him heal. I think it's helped you know, me and my whole family heal from a situation. Because I mean, I don't I don't look at my accident as it was, um something devastating, like I'm grateful for it. You know, it wouldn't it would not have made Yeah, it would have I it would not have made me the person that I am right now if it didn't happen. I mean there's no telling what I would have been doing or you know what kind of guy I would have been if my actually never happened, Like it humbled me so much, um because like I said, you know, we take things for granted all the time, Like I could have been a selfish prick if I'd never got a leg saying away from me like now, like I cherished the little things, like I'm grateful for so much more now. So like I just don't. I don't think my accident was one of those deals where you know, I should get bitter over to me, and I think it's one of those things that really humbled me alife. You could have been the type of dude who whendn't throwing a road killed deer in the back of the track of the ranch. You know that's never gonna happen again. So if if, if people want as much as you're wanting to do this, if people want to contact you UM to talk about haven't you come and talk to a group or how do they do it? How do they get a hold of you? I think the easiest way to get ahold of me is uh. I have a Facebook page is called Son of the South s O n of the South, and I think that's probably he's the way to message me. Um, I stay on, I used to say on social media a lot, but I've laid back on that pretty much. But if you wanted to get and send your message, it can still find you. Oh yeah, yeah, I'm not hard to five. Just look for a black gund of wheelchair making animal sounds not hard to find at all. The group narrows down quick, all right, man, this has been great. Uh, Josh Carney Son of the South. Sometimes they get called mouth for the South. Don't know why. They're probably gonna talk a lot like, yeah, we'll stick with Son of Himself, you know. Yeah, thanks so much for coming on man. And yeah, now that you told everybody how to find you, do you want to learn more about Josh Go track them down. Thank you very much, Thank you s