00:00:08 Speaker 1: This is me eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening un podcast. You can't predict anything presented by on X. Hunt creators are the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the Hunt app from the iTunes or Google play store. Nor where you stand with on X For those of you joining us now, Johann, He's telling us, Uh, people who think Janice has this glamorous life should know that Yanni was just explained to us that it is, in fact possible to do a quick stop at Costco. Yeah. I don't mind doing Costco KEENBA. Costco is the international shipping Yeah, there is a t Yeah, but you know what I'm saying, Like you see context containers to say Costco. No, I think it's commonly said both ways. For sure, people are just speaking of the bat. You're not You're not hearing me. No, I'm totally hearing you. I know that there's both out there, and I think when people refer to Costco, there are lots of people that's just say Costco and nobody corrects him. My mother's husband, who's your mirror? I hesitate to call my father in law. So I feel like I'm a little bit older. No, No, stepdad that um he calls Barnes and Noble, um books and Nobles, and he calls him McDonald's and Italian dressing. I was just saying that you adopted all of that stuff. By the way, I take everything from him. That as soon as you got your reader glasses, he took on that stuff. Do you receive gifts from this man at Christmas? Okay? Yeah, you're you're clear of the stepdad thing. Then something a little bit old step dad? I think so too, getting older every day. You guys caught the I didn't send this to Phil. The finger that had fifteen inches attendant attached to it was an alarming photograph on ice, the color, everything about it. I sent it to my wife. She's like, why are you saying this to me? No, she says, I don't want to see this, and I said, no one does. I couldn't figure out what it was. Yeah, because the tender kind of throws you off. Well, because we're you know, you talk about finger stories. You get him in it's self perpetuating as his dad. That's the guy over in Billings, guy from Billings he's gonna be at the live show. Um, I don't know why he's going to this one, but he's going to the to the Mace of the Phoenix Live show. Is he bringing the finger? No, I'm gonna talk about what happened to the finger. He's gonna be at the show. I'm gonna I think about having him up on stage just to ask him a couple of quick questions. But his dad was a welder. Somehow got his finger tore off, and it tore off fifteen inches attendant. Yeah, if you've ever done the little trick that we like to do with duck leg the mediator fishing game, cook but ladies and gentlemen, where you just um, basically score the joint there right where the orange ens and the feathers start. You score it just enough to get through the outside skin, and then you just yank the leg from the well carefully hanging onto the drumstick. I guess it would be right not quite the thigh. You yank all those tendons right out of the drumstick, and uh, it was just a big version of that. Yeah, I challenge. I don't want to use a like uh you know how the problem I have a lot of my like pop references are old. Feel like, if I want to say, um, like, I would challenge Lou Frigno to uh do that with a Canada goose leg? What what should I say? You're talking about? He's like the seventies Hulk, right, yeah, Like so I need like a contemporary example of someone with her killing strength. Dave Batista Really yeah, he's he's a he's he was a wrestler and now he's like a movie star. Challenge would be a good one. I'm not doing a rock reference, man, why not just not gonna what's that other wrestler guy that's in all the movies? Work? Denver was in that reality TV John Cena, John Cena, Yeah, yeah, I would challenge John. I would challenge John Cena to do that with a Canada goose leg. It's good. I saw Yanni try it. He's no John Cena. He couldn't know it. But I didn't try it by myself. Nonetheless, you tagged teamed with the flip flop flesher. That's right, And it was not even kind of budget budged. And then it hit like a wall and it was not going to feel that you and and Seth could if you were tag teaming with John Cena on the other side. Yeah, so tag team match you Seth and John Cena. Would you be able to whoop him? No? Really, I don't think so. Now if he's a some kind of a fighter, I mean those skills, you don't go a long way. Uh. We're joined by Anthony Locata. Nites would be customary to say like hello, uh, Ryan Callahan, Seth or filled the engineers here of course, Yanni and Kevin Sloan first ever time on the show. Yeah, well, yes, finally letting me on. Yeah, we should try to lock the door. But he crawled in. Um a couple of things. So well, oh the finger, what happened? Uh working on a he's a welder and they were in you know, he got his glove caught in a drill press. The uh, the bit wrapped around the glove, the glove, the bit got the gloves, the glove got the finger and pulled it fifteen inches attending. What they did with it is the guy that wrote in j ethan Um this is his first names. What they did was when he got married, they want that he was got. He got to reading about Viking funerals, and the night before he got married, they took the old man's finger. It was in his brother in law's freezer. They took the old man's free uh finger and gave it a Viking funeral in a kiddie pool in the backyard. People in attendance, So they burned it a Viking funeral. They burned burned finger in a floating in a little boat in a kiddie pool, because like a Viking funeral. Uh. For those of you out of the out of the know, maybe they put you in a boat full of sticks and firewood and whatnot and DAUSI and gas and lighted on fire and shove you out. There was some cute kids movie, wasn't there. That was like the guy's last dying wish, and the adults wouldn't let it happen, and all the kids had to conspire to make it happen. At the very end, they launched the last arrow and that sounds yeah, you're right. And then then then the movie Dead Man, he kind of does something when he finally gets William Blake. Um. Yes, if if you're not familiar with the Dead Man, i'd i'd like you to please leave. But I've been trying to watch that movie for five years, and the end of Dead Man that's I can't explain it takes too long to explain it. Uh. Moving on the is this an old joke? A guy wrote in I feel like this is like an old joke. I'm gonna tell you guys what it is. So he this guy. There's a great level of specificity in an email that the person wrote in Upper East Tennessee. He's saying there's a lot of farmers that have turned to raising sheep as the demand for tobacco has fallen. Is this sound legit? That sounds perfectly plausible. Um influx of raising sheep has brought an increase in the kyote population. Lots of people having trouble with Kyle to have one of those meetings where all the different stakeholders come in and fishing game is there, and there's farmers there and other interested parties all show up and they're exploring these solutions. And the solutions include using donkeys to protect herds, um the cost benefit of hiring kyote hunters to try to do a population reduction. And they said that one lady shows up, uh, and an animal rights activists shows up, and she proposes that they set live traps for the coyotes and castrate the males and then release them, to which an old farmer says, lady, I don't think you understand the problem. These coyotes aren't having sex with our sheep, they're killing them. Is that an old joke that has an old one? Yeah? Yeah, I thought it might be an old joke. Um, moving on, So can I ask you guys are like a lame people to hang out? Well, I thought there was gonna be more of the story here. Okay, So this person is saying that the paco when when it was all tobacco up there, it didn't support the amount of wildlife that would then have a neighboring large predator. Uh, not a large predator, but a large population of coyotes being the predator. What I think is going on? And then add the sheep, because nobody's raising sheep and making any sort of cash if they're letting. But do you know the joke, um, the old the wild game cooking joke where you describe like a very elaborate process of cooking something and then you cook it on a cedar plank and the punch line is always the same, and then you throw out the dark and you eat the wood, right, But I think it's that joke. But he's just spinning the tobacco. The tobacco thing is the setup, like the step being like, oh, tell you how to cook a coop? Yeah no, no, no, no no no, and eat the board all right. Or I'm sure there were plenty of coyotes there before, but it wasn't a problem until people started raising sheep eating the tobacco because it makes you sick. I found that out in fifth grade, means Stanley Johnson means Stanley Johnson. We were making agricultural maps. You had to glue egg products to a map of the US, and someone brought in a big old thing of long leaf tobaccy and me and Stanley knew that was something that people like to do. This chew tobacco and we ate. Someone had to go home. I was I was literally hallucinating, uh, throwing up, but it can't be rescued by my mom. I never became a dipper. Um. Another quick note, Oh like I did that. Oh this is interesting. Guy wrote in that they were they made some bear sliders, black bear sliders and someone cracked a joke. What's called a ten ten joke? I don't know what that is. Someone cracked a ten ten joke and the guy snorted eating his bear slider and got so much bear slider up his nose that he wound up at the hospital his sinus cavity packed full of a bear slider. What was the joke? Must have been a good joke. Ten ten joke? Is that bad? Yeah? I need to do some research on what a ten ten joke is that. That seems extreme. Yeah, they said. They said they basically pressure washed the bears the black bear meat back out of his sinus. My brother did that when he was a kid, with a rubber night walker for fishing. My mom put him to bed he was playing with it. She said, it's a rubber knight walker, like a rubber worm like you guys called night walkers. That's when my dad calls it. So that's why I didn't, because I've heard my dad tell the story so so many times. I told it the way my father would. Um. Yeah, soft plastic six inch rubber worm. Did you got when you were kids? You have to kind of had the three gold hooks like it was a purple worm, pink dot and they had the three hooks. Oh my god, they'll slay. They came like tied like a snell. Well anyway, my brother was playing with one when my mom put him to bed. He was like three and um when she left, he shoved it so far up his nose that I had to go to the hospital and get it pressure washed out. Oh that corrob rates that story, so that could happen. Yeah, any news on ten ten jokes? Yeah, the Urban Dictionary is it? Can you say it on the air? Yeah, for sure, I think so. Um it says it's like a year joke. No, it's something he's too when you say when um, there's a female with voluptuous Okay. So he made a joke about this and it caused him to get the bear stuck in his nose. Um, there's a good story. Guy wrote in about his body. Their cliff jumping, and he knows a guy that jumps off a cliff so high. There's a lot too about a skip to the graphic part. When he struck the water, his swim trunks captured a scoop of water that caused them to rip up the end seem, causing a small laceration between his legs. The hydraulic pressure proceeded to widen the hole enough that his pelvis broke into three plate pieces and folded outwards. The jet of water traveled upwards through his body with enough force to puncture his left lung, severing both femoral arteries, urethra and scrambling his intestines. The only reason he did not die within seconds is that the ends of his arteries were pushed into both sides of the fractured pelvis, which then pinched them shut. I don't know that film. Why are you laughing? Not even on the show. I was just I was picturing you. You did a very good job, like a very visual play by play of that, and I was running through it in my head and together you thought you were trying to follow and in the end you're feeling it or not feeling Oh yeah, for sure. It was the pinching that was That was an ending, for sure. So you believe that that happened to that? Absolutely not. It was just a good story. No, it sounds crazy, right, and I Phil is not buying it. If I had to put my life on it, yeah, I'd say I'm not buying it either to tourists swim trunks. I can believe that it led to like a Rube Goldberg scenario, which is long. I don't know that reference. Oh but yeah, you'll find Yn't even knows a lot of stuff. Sometimes you'll find he's like kind of like mysterious little holes. Rube Goldberg would be like like these contraptions, right, like a ping pong ball, fall balls and tips the lever, and the lever causes a little drop of water to drip in a bucket of water, and the bucket of water then tips your kids want to play mouse trap that game that it's like the Rube Goldberg contraption? Is that named after a person? Well, I'd like to think that it's named after Rube Goldberg? Rube? Is it real? Rube? All right? Now? I think the other thing is it's like this person would be so the cliff the cliff jumper. Yeah, the cliff jumper is like, can I interrupt you? The finger with the fifteen inches attendant. I have the photographs. I would love nothing more than to put them on Instagram. I feel like that would cause me damage with the folks on Instagram, and I would get my account removed. Yeah, it's something, doesn't it seem like you would? Yeah, it's not good. I know that medical Instagram pages have a lot of problem where they get censored even though they're trying to be helpful. Yeah, I follow a couple of them that are pretty interesting. Go on. Oh so anyway, this, this cliff jumper to the point seems so precariously kept together that no surgeon in the world would even attempt to touch the person like Humpty almost like a Humpty Dumpty kind of level of Yeah, it's a house of cards type of you ever heard of Humpy Humpty Dumpty? Got not the rapper, the Humpty Hump. Yeah, I don't think his name was Humpty Dumpty. He's sang the Humpty Hump. It was the Digital Underground, but the digital Underground can't remember the name of the rapper himself. The final thing, the finally I want to top before we talk about schul talk about my my great friend and neighbor, Um Patrick. He took offense. Yan. You weren't here, but we were dogging on you behind your back about how you're not a true outdoorsman. Um. He was texting me today about making some ski plans speaking now, I'm not going to read his note, come on, bring it, okay. He doesn't like He takes offense by the idea that, um, I don't think like I know Yanni not to be a true outdoorsman because he likes to ski. Um, because the true outdoorsman wants to be doing all doorright, you know, wants to be hunting, fishing. Um, it would never like take all those you know waste all the time. So uh, my neighbor, my beloved neighbor, Patrick, who has a kiln, he like throws, he does ceramics work. Um, he accuses me of commondeering the definition of a true outdoorsman, and he doesn't like it. He takes offense that it being limited to exclusively hunting and fishing year round with no inclusion of other activity these that indeed require being out of doors and in the wilds of nature. Then he goes on to top of all kinds of dictionary definitions of outdoorsmen, one who spends much time in the outdoors or an outdoor activities, A person devoted to outdoor sports and recreational activities such as hunting, hiking, fishing, and camping. And then he goes on and on about how you know it teaches everyone you appreciate all the seasons, and you're learning about all this kind of stuff. Now, you guys are gonna skiing together. So if we were out, if I just happened to go backpacking say this summer, is that also going to be a notch against my you're scouting, right, not if you're scouting. Now, my boy was just at ski lessons and he took note of a weasel, which what people often do. Took note a weasel, So I would almost roll that into a scouting trip. Um. He says, we should be celebrating anyone getting out side and enjoying our public lands, regardless of the means that brought them to that space. A true outdoorsman is simply a human being who, at their court, loves and understands the natural world and prefers to be immersed in it whenever possible. Well, put all right, freshly back, here's what's supposed be talking about? Freshy back from Mexico. Who's deer hunting? Um? I fear that I'm a little bit torn about top. I feel like, who's your hunting is like? Is gonna become like a famous thing you're worried about ruining it. I don't know. That's what I'm torn about is because, uh, one the mentality of I used to have a friend I'm still good friends with them, and they used to make these, uh these really good pickles, you know, and they had like a family recipe how they made the pickles, and people who ate the pickles had joy, like they loved the pickles, and they'd be like, how did you I'd like to you know, I'd like to make some of those pickles so that I can have more joy, and they would Did you tell him you should pick up skiing family? Yeah? I was explaining the eye there to day. I kind of put my finger on it. Or it's like a juvenile sport because it's like the sensation you're supposed to have is captured by the word. Uh. It's like like children, like the way children would slide dump things like McDonald's and stuff at the slides. Um. But what was I saying, Oh the droll Yeah he's been on the show, Matt drow Um. The Drolls family had like a pickle recipe. They were reluctant to give it up, and you'd be like, but if the people like to eat the pickles and it brings joy to their lives. And since you're not in the business of selling pickles and you're not depriving yourself of a revenue stream, and you know that the taste of these pickles brings joy, what is the motivation to deprive? Right? Like what are you getting out of people not having joined their lives? Like, like, what is the benefit of monopolizing a good way to make a pickle when there's no financial steak? Just knowing that I have really good pickles? You don't please no, because yeah, because you are the only purveyor of that pickle joy? Is this any recipes that way that that doesn't that people are like yeah, I don't think so. You know, like my wife is just kind of uh would hold on to that adult cookie recipe? There would be like so much the one that she brings to the Christmas because she wants to revel in the she wants to be like the joy that it generates. I want to be the only person that can harness the joy. Yeah, you get to be the person. You get to be the person that's like, oh, Jennifer's cookies, Jennifer's cookies, Matt's pickles. Can you imagine if the medical world, if the metal cold world, Um, they do do that. No, it doesn't work like that. Yeah, well except they just put a price tag on it exactly. But they don't be like, oh no, I know how to save your life. If I'm not telling, I'm not gonna allow it to be published. Is a different form of currency anyhow. The cous Deier conundrum. The Cousier conundrum is that it's like it's like a really special thing and it feels like, right now is the good old days. We're talking about hunting cous dere Snora, Mexico. Why do you feel today's the good old days? Because I can't picture that it was at some point in time better, do you know? You know what I mean? It feels like it feels like you're touching something like almost perfect. And Christine, certainly Christine, I think that's one of the coolest parts about going down there. It feels like perfect. It doesn't feel like anyone could say, like, oh, you know, when I was a boy, we commented we were down there, it felt like no one had been there since we were there last year kind of felt untouched. You don't get to experience that up very often. No, it's an interesting landscape too because just historically there's never been a ton of people there there, you know, I mean there's mining has been the largest population driver in that area of the world I think historically. Um, and you know, there's just not that many people who have hunted deer up in those mountains all in all. No, it contradicts a point that the area. So what we're talking about Sonora, so it's not really the snore of desert because you're up in these things. These are no, they're referred to as a Sonoran Mountains, Snoran mountains. Um. They rise up from you know, they rise up from the flat desert, and he's kind of like islandy mountain chains uh low down like you know, in the in the slopes leading up to him is you know, just very sandy, rocky ground with like ok tello cactus and then you go open up and up, but eventually get high enough you get up where there's some you know, full on timber, like some pine trees scattered here and there, nasty okatillo. Is that that's a good context. No, But I used to like to fantasize about. We used to sit there when we're glass and we would sit there and describe ways. You know, you kind of be like, you know what would be funny. It's like if you took one of these and X, Y and Z your buddy or took one of these and you and your other buddy did this to the other buddy. This is Steve and the mouse in his pocket is having this. We're having this conversation. No, we talked about making bullwhips out of oak, tios, all kinds stuff. It's it's a yeah, it's a it's a great plant. It would be like like if you were like a nefarious torture okato would be like a thing you'd have in your box of torture equipment, be growing it in your backyard. You'd be like, oh yeah, get an oak deal um. Cou'se deers seemed to love to feed in it. Yeah, they like it. You know what. Cale I was telling cal that walking out in the dark, dear night with Aum packing a Cou's deer out in the dark, and we got talking about how I was telling how other ranches I've been in Sonora that were lower you would find CU's deer on these little humps loaded with oak teo, and there's always grass there. Cal had a great point is that the cattle don't like to go in there, so the grass doesn't get grazed on the oak teo humps, which I thought was a very plausible theory. They maybe there's some sort of like safety from predators as well. Yea, like stuff doesn't want to go in because it's a it's a wee thing where it's thick and open. At the same time, you can like it can be covered in okatillo, but yet you can see every square inch of the hillside, but you can't go running across that hillside. That's a good point. Um, So we're like we're hunting like fairly close to I mean, you're looking back into the U and we should like do a better job of describing okatillo. Oh, go ahead. It looks like a giant torture apparatus. It's like, uh, like, uh, a spaghetti noodle that's twelve feet tall. Yeah, I think it can be two in diameter at the base. The giant one covered in very very durable cactus thorns with a yellow flower off and the yellow flower looks pretty yeah, And if you took it and cut it off and then d bird a section for a handle m, you would have a formidable yes. And each plant probably has I don't know, quite a few stocks kind of coming out in v formation I'm looking at when you google images, it's all just pictures of it in the springtime when it's blooming and actually has a beautiful red flower on it. But we never see that since we're down there in January. Uh. Point I was gonna make about we're gonna tak fair bit about this, but pint I was gonna make about a thing about the mountains and snores like like just across the border from Arizona. Um, it kind of contradicts. It contradicts a point I've often made about like pristine like pristine habitats is that I would always say, like in the US, we've we've gotten to a point where anything, like all the stuff that we have this pristine is pristine because someone kind of decided to have it be that way. Right, Like for a lot of our nation's history, we had pristine places in spite of our efforts to like get rid of them all. And then we had a switch. We like had a national mindset change, and and now we kind of like have pristine things because we've decided that there they should be that way, right, like we do things to may hope to to help them stay that way protections. But down there it's like it just really I said every time we talk about this every year, if you talk about Cuisier, it is it is like traveling. All you need to do, like you cross this geopolitical it's like very seemingly arbitrarily paced geopolitical boundary and crossing the Mexico and everything changes. Yeah, Like you cross a fence and there is a guy on the side of the road with a splitting mall and a giant pile of messki basically split the serve, split the serve, cooking wood. It is a different place. And then you go in the mountains, it's like it's like off, you'll see anyone for days, and then you finally see some person riding on a trail off in the mountains with like three dogs and a lever action car being in a leather scabbard on the side of a horse going Lord nolswhere and he does that every single day with a burlap sack full of his stuff that he needs tied around the saddle horn is a different land. And you look, if you look really hard, there's some I'm very sure, state of the art surveillance balloon, you know, suspended above the border. And it's just so weird that that is there, and probably like all the technology on the freaking planet to some degree right there. And then you have this handful of Caballeros that are living like that stuff never existed, no electricity, and so you know, I don't want to, like, over the years, we've haunted quite a number of I'll explain a little bit, no, you know, y you do it? Explain how the system works down there, Janni, do all the all the Triman's about, Like at the state, you know, they make an assessment, Jay Scott cal I just have a quick correction. This did a quick little uh Google search on Caballero and I think it's uh Caro, Mexican, gentleman, it's Caballero Ca. Yeah. But people always criticize how we save a Carol. They say it's Carol. Right now. You're supposed to say your vs, like like Vanado is you know Bonado Vanado? We say Vanado, dear umot is with in Sonora, it's wild turkey. Well, Bato likes El grande turkey. That's yeah, big chicken. Now, what do you want me to explain? How? How? How have some life to start? I want you to start? Yep yep ye nuts to soup. Best to my knowledge, um a wildlife biologists that is that works for the Mexican federal government, goes to all right, state state government my understanding. Okay, so he works for the Sonora, Sonoran state government. Person. Yeah, they go to each of these ranches and they sort of do a game count and they look at the habitat and then from there they say, this ranch you guys own. You guys can have six or ten or twelve deer tags, twenty have Lena tags, and who knows what else They turkey tags too. That's right, that's probably about it. Yeah, maybe maybe you can speak to Anty Anthony's hundred ducks in Mexico. Right, it was a different situation than a ramstone. Are different states, so I'm gonna work differently. And and and then yeah, in other areas of scenari, they have mule deer, but we never see him where we go, and so they have these tags, and I guess they the family could just take the tags and go hunting, or they could just give them to friends. But what's happened because of the popularity of Cou's Deer Because I want to interject, because I'm developing a theory about this, I don't think that they give a ship about the tags. I guess they want to hunt deer. They hunt deer, mm hmm. My sense that could be too. My sense is like, oh, how cute You're gonna give me deer tags, okay, which are valuable. Yeah, but I don't think that. I don't think that the Vicarro's Bacarro's. I don't like saying Bocarro's. Is that really how I'm sposed to say it? Okay? I don't think that those guys are like applying for like that they're like worried about deer tags. No, definitely, So I think that the deer tags are Yeah, maybe it's just for gringos just so that we can get them back across the border legally. So anyways they have they're sitting on these tags, and um, how it works for us is that our buddy Jay Scott, Jay Scott Outdoors and the Colburn Scottfitting team. Yeah. Um, they go and find they scout ranches. They find ranches that have tags available, and ranches that also have like there's different levels of the houses, but some sort of lodging that you can stay at. Um, and then they basically by buying the tags, they sort of also leased the ranch. So if there's because you've monopolized the deer hunting on the ranch. Yeah, yeah, but they're pretty pricey tags, you know, anywhere increasing dramatically, is that right? Do you remember what the first one was that you ever paid for? Haven't they gone from like a thousand or twelve hundred? Yeah, but that might be over many years. Okay, so if they've doubled in price in twenty years, because I think now they're around three thousand apiece. So yeah, three thousand dollars gets you a cusier tag, and you usually have to buy again because like Jay has to to least the ranch, he's gonna have to buy all the tags. Right, So you want to go to a ranch, you can't just say, oh, I'm just gonna go there by myself and I'll take one tag, because he's got you know, eighteen k into it. Yeah, he's got many. He's got many years into developing relationships with some places. That's right, And I don't I don't know that. I don't know what like the Dave, I don't know what sort of the standard arrangement is, but he seems to make an arrangement where you have some whether it's like some old bombed out hut or a really nice place, like some place to stay. Yeah, and we've stayed in some places that like a concrete shell, Yeah, that's a good way to describe it, with some sort of running water, usually some mattresses that you just rather use your own, uh sleep pad on the ground, or like gorgeous places that are like nicer than your own house. Yeah, with some really awesome like Mexican sauti sautillo um tile work and stone work or some fake stone work and the heart that it was at this house that we stayed at. Yeah, and this kind of weird contract, this weird sort of contradiction of like really big places that have no power. Yeah, they walk around the head lamp burning wood. Well they have power generator, but yeah they're not like you know, they're not hooked up to their um. So yeah, so once you buy them, Jay Scott's got a system set up. It's like his d I Y Cou's deer hunting system our program, and uh, you can get ahold of him and he will basically sell you those tags and then also help arrange the whole process of you going from Douglas arizonas you they are um port of entry or the crossing point when we go where we go into Mexico. And so he's sort of like from that moment when you're gonna go into Mexico, he kind of lines out every single step that gets you all the way to to the ranch and cous deer hunting and he has he's like and he's got locals that he's met there that he works with and helps some guide and do various things. Yeah, probably a couple of them at least are like dual citizens so they can travel back and forth freely. They speak Spanish very well, they know the low down what goes on in Agua Prieta. So it makes it a very like safe because a lot of people have worries, you know, about going into old Mexico. I got a lot of stuff comments just from the one Instagram post I had to add where people are like now how do you feel? And now it is this same Now, aren't you worried and things like that. I've gone, Yes, yes, I am worried. I have gone. How many times We've gone seven times something like that. Probably have never had a single ounce of a problem. Yet I'm always a little teensy bit scared, only in the transportation part, but have never had any problem at all. Anthony on the other hand, Yeah, I've been twice this time no issues. Where I was before um uh an area near called sassaby Um. I had a good cu'se deer hunting there. I was beautiful are a very similar area, a little lower elevation, so train was a little different. Um. We did run into some folks who were with cartel Um on the property we were. I wouldn't say it was a problem. You know, it didn't really cause any issues. But we were on this right after the election, settling ladies. It was this was it's got everything's got politics And yeah, two thousand and sixteen, right after the presidential election, after um President Trump had been elected, but before his inauguration. Do you know we're on and couldn't find out who won? Oh really nerve rack Um. So the ranch that I was hunting is a big ranch in it it borders right up against the United States border. And the outfitter who set it up, you know, had said, you know, you may see some people crossing on the ramps. They crowd they used the ranch across the border. And it also was close to a pretty wild area in Arizona. So it's a good place to cross, um said, nothing to worry about, but you know, just be aware, he said, you may see some army folks to folks on the Mexican army whatnot. Okay, started sound like, um, what should I wear? It doesn't matter. It's just gonna be you and me. We're gone. Um. So, in the course of a week of hunting, we saw it had to be it was well over a hundred It was probably us two people who were crossing the border. Now this ranch, in the words of the film Jeremiah Johnson, molesting your hunt. Um, No, for the most part, right, you'd see him on the roads. And now this ranch was I say the roads. It was like the ranch we were on. It's a big wild place off the grid. Old um. You know, small stone house, cowboys on horseback, same kind of deal. But you'd see these folks on the ranch roads. Um, you know about like a line of twenty people, you know, carrying their stuff going across the border. Every water hole you'd often seen like water jugs and whatnot. And so the outfitter who had been hunting that ranch for some time said, we've seen people before, but this is by far the most people we've ever seen. And it was um after, as I said, after the election policy ship. We didn't get to like why it mattered that it was right after so right, so they're expecting a policy shift, So there was a huge surge of people crossing the border getting good. So we saw lots of people. Didn't affect our hunt. And you know what, what what would would would you be seeing like sneaking or just just just traveling. They would be traveling in a line traveling. It looked like it was almost organized, right, like somebody was leading and everybody else was in single file. Sometimes you'd see them on like carpet tape to the bottom of the shoes and no not sneaking at all. Um. And sometimes you'd see a group resting right stopping at a spot, whether they're resting or waiting, you know, I'm not quite sure. And so you know, with people crossing, that's the flow of people is often controlled by the cartel. Is just like the flow of drugs. So, you know, we knew there was cartel activity in the area. And the outfitter had said at the beginning of season, he sends one of his guys to talk to one of the guys from a cartel and says, hey, we're coming to hunt. You know, we know you're here. We're gonna be here. We're all good, right, you know, and there's no problems, um, you know, and his his philosophy is generally, um, you know, the cartel people are doing their thing. They don't want to mess with us. They don't they don't want to cause any trouble. So there was one day we were driving on the roads, um, going to a new hunting spot, and we ran into the truck from other people on our hunting party, you know, raning into each other on the road. We stopped and get out of the trucks and we stopped to just chat and see, hey, what are you seeing, where are you going? And as we're doing that, we look up the road and we see this this guy running you know, kind of trotting at us. He's got um um you know, Semiauto military rifle and he's in fatigues and we think, oh, here's the guy from the army. And when he got closer we realized this is no guy from the army. You know, was not standard issue fatigues. So he came up speaking Spanish and um, hey, what are you guys doing? And uh say, hey, how are you? And we had a cooler beer in the back of the truck. Not why we were hunting be clear, but for after the hunt, but it's it's key for the story. We said, hey, would you like a cold beer? Race us? So we gave him a game of beer and he asked for more for he said, can I have some? This is all in Spanish for my boss, and he points up to hill and we look up at the top of this plateau and you can see there's a huge encampment of men up there, a whole bunch of people, and so we gave him a couple more and then all of a sudden, somebody comes and two other guys. Three other guys come down, one in the lead, and the man we're talking, he goes, oh, he's my boss. So this was the guy in charge. So he comes up and he's all smiles and we give some more beer even still, and he says, oh, you know, where are you guys hunting? What trucks are you driving? You know, he want to know what rigs we were driving, where we're gonna be. He want to know if we're seeing any deer. And he actually as he said, oh if you have some extra meat, had a quarter right here for us. Yeah. Sure, Um did he give you any hot tips? He did not give us any hot tips about where they saw a couple out of him man. But we said, you know, hey, we're just we're hunting. We know you guys are working and we're just working and all right, so long. And the one funny thing was though we had a one of guy who was with us, a really good photographer, had to get a nice camera, pulls that camera up. They go no, no, no, right away they like everyal serious and we just put the cameras down, like no photos. They made very clear no photos, and uh, we went on our way. We just kept hunting. Yeah, we just kept didn't go running home. No, but we didn't go running home. We kept hunting. I wouldn't say like they gave us trouble or we felt threatened. They were, you know, they but you realize you're talking to people who would kill you if it was in their best intro. But you're thinking, well, they don't really, you know, they're doing their thing. They don't want trouble with us, and so it's all right. But um, we did keep the rifles in the house, you know. Um we did not go out on the ranch roads at night. You know, we stayed in the in the building at night. We we did not go out after dark very much. Yeah, I have a little bit of a hard time, not a hard time of the story, but like I don't I always want to stress, like nothing's ever happened, and you know, and and and Jay works. Yeah nothing happened. That's I know. I'm not saying I would count that as something happening. Yeah, that happened, But I've never had anything happened yet. I feel slightly uneasy in the coming and going. It's intimidating, right, Like it's not super clear what you're supposed to do at all points when you cross with a gun, right, I've I've traveled to multiple countries with guns before, never felt intimidated like crossing the border there. Yeah, like it's somehow, um, there's like a subjectivity to it. It's not like, oh you do this, this and this. It feels like every interaction it feels like there's Yeah, there's like a question mark lingering over. Definitely go multiple ways at each interaction, and there's not like one interaction. There's interactions, you know, three or four of them as as you go through. But I feel like that's been ironed out or smoothed out over the over the years, And probably a lot has to do with just the volume that Jay you know, takes through there with his business, that there's less and less of that because I'm sure if yeah, if it's quiet and there's like the right corrupt corrupt police officer, then yeah, the the lingering question is, hey, you know, can you drop a twenty spot here to make things to get your stamp as opposed to just I'm supposed to give you the stamp because you're paperwork is proper, you know. Yeah, Yeahnie, one time I had to do like a side transaction with an official. Um, the the rifle question comes up a lot, it's always different, but you way in advance way, Yeah, because you have to get a This is something I left out. Didn't leave it out, just hadn't gotten to it yet. But when you're by that tag from the ranch, you then enter into a hunting contract with the ranch, and that hunting contract once it is signed, um, then it basically allows you to get a gun permit from the federal the Mexican federal government. Yeah. I think this is one of the reasons why it's kind of an elite group of hard players who goes down there to hunt, because it's not you don't like just wake up one morning decide you're gonna go down for the simple reason that you have to, like do you have to? There's a process, but it is like it's I don't know the process with like a truck a gun, explain all that well, and the gun process the length because we turned in our weapon information summertimes yeah, yeah, summertime. Yeah. And Jay likes to have his eyes out and Tea's cross and just like kind of everything done and in the bag to three months in advance because if you get a permit back like one time happened to me, and one of the numbers on the serial number was off by a number and it cost me what it cost me two days of hunting on that trip because I had to basically hang out in Agua Priatta and way as my new gun permit, had to go all the way to Hermercio, the capital city of Sonora, and then come all the way back. And it doesn't go via facts. It's got to be original down there. And it went on a bus and it came back on a bus and our um, this is the only way to do it. Because our serial number issue this time was a lengthy or deal and that was on our rental car or VN number. Rather, we had a VN number issue, um, and that was the same deal. It's like, you want that stuff and it just speaks to how the world is different down there once you cross that border. Um, it's like you can't really understand why they need what they need, but they want it, you know, and it's got to be done the way that they want it. A lot of originals as far as documents go. You know, we make copies just in case you need it for a backup, but like they don't really like the copy thing. They want to see originals. So yeah, most people will just take their own vehicle through because I think I would guess that most hunters that go through J's services are from Arizona or within driving distance of Arizona. People the d the d I y guys, Yeah, guys that are fired about cous deer and um. Because just the good old days. Yeah, the vehicle, the driver that's that's going through, the vehicle has to be in your name, the registration has to be in your name. Then numbers have to all match up. Same thing goes with the trailer that you're side by side is on if you're using one, and it's a crucial piece of equipment, um, and it all has to just match up. For us, it's a little more difficult because we're flying into Tucson because it's long drive from Montana, and we rent vehicles that you that are allowed to go across the border. You get to get Mexican insurance and you get to make contracts from Enterprise and Alamo, the two companies that let you take vehicles across. But basically their contract says that you can. You actually get another form that says permission to enter Mexico with this vehicle. But the most important part is that the contract itself with your name and Enterprise on there has the vehicle's VN number. Well, it just so happens that Enterprise doesn't put their ven numbers on the contract, especially the system I know, because now you know they don't even know what the hell car you're gonna take. No, you do all your paperworkies, walk out and drive on off. It's just not in important. You know. They have whatever system of checks and bounces they have doesn't include the VN number. I'm sure it's like in the system, but they don't need it on the contract. Well, the Mexican government that issues you a vehicle permit wants that the number on there, and they don't care how enterprise operates. Yeah, so you just sort of had to go into enterprise and say, hey, it's very important, whatever you gotta do, make sure the vein numbers on there. And unfortunately we had doubled VN numbers as opposed to Ryan and I were the two drivers and instead of having separate brand speaking new Ford Rangers. You're funny to see because I think it like Ford Rangers. I think it dudes in high school, like when I was a kid in high school. Yeah, or an Old Rancher. That's to me, that's like the classic Old Ranchers. That's an irrigation track. Yeah, but uh yeah, and then the MAS that what was the MAS the version of it? Yeah, um like the B two or something like that. There's also the Chevy Love remember that one, that's an irrigation pro Those were nice. I didn't We can talk about those trucks later. Yeah, I like those. Um So anyways, that's kind of what it takes to get So once you hit the border, do we want to start there like four or four or five seven? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, this is public service stuff. I don't know. I don't even care if it's not interesting to people. There's a form fur four or five seven and yeah, not even knows the form number. Beautiful man of the form. He treats a form with respect, well, not disdained, he treats with respect. But the only reason because if you don't, then the people that you show the form to are gonna laugh and turn you away. Then you don't get to go cluse hunting. But a four or four or five seven just said, it's basically telling the US government that you are leaving the country with goods that cost money that are like an excess of some value, probably five or more. That way, when you come back with them, there's no funny business about that you left it or you sold it or whatever. It's just track. You're like that you're bringing stuff down to sell, no, I'm sorry, or that you bought it somewhere else, because we used to put optics and stuff on there too, but now we just do rifles. Yeah, it could go. I used to my scope, serial number, bonos. They never care about that stuff because the gun thing. You want to show that, like, you didn't pick up a gun down in Mexico, so they basically want to see the gun, check the serial numbers, and you're on your way. Then that's not high stress, no, pretty easy. You go into Mexico and the first stop is that the aduana, which I think is just how you say port of entry. Cal tell me what aduana means. I don't know the first letter of that ed wana A d u A n A okay on it. And uh, it's kind of all clustered together. You have the UM, the police, and then you also have the like Tourism office, I guess is what you can call that, right, maybe Immigration Office of sorts UM. And then you also have another office that deals with UM vehicles and it's kind of all together. And when one one and a half buildings cuts. Oh, but you go to a dude and he does a thing. Yeah. Then you go to another dude and he does a photo copy of a thing. You go to another dude and like, he does a thing. Then you go back to the first dude and be like, look, it's a it's a room. It's a room with four doors, three walls of glass with people behind the three walls of glass. The other wall is just a wall some posters on it that says you can't smuggle you know, rare reptiles out of here um, and yeah, you go to one you get it and they're like, yeah, go see them over there. And then you go over there. You get a stamp, and then they say go over there and the guy makes a photo copy. And then you go back to the first window and you go, hey, here you go, here's everything you need, and then here's some money. And then they say, okay, thank you, you're out the door. If you like, if you went to Subway and every one of the little bins of condiments had an attendant. Yeah, and they were in different areas of the of the building. Bell Peppers. Yes, please, okay, you will now go across the restaurant for your mail and talk to the gentleman with the mail. Um. So that's pretty much just to get your tourist visa. Then you go um at the same window that you paid for the tourist visa. You gotta get your vehicle permit. That's where we had to run in with the with the n That's always the trouble spot, always a trouble spot. Yeah. And uh so once we knew we had just redo the contract went in a big deal. Nice, very nice gal. Uh, Pamela should give Pamela props because she she she knew what to do. Unfortunately in her she has that we were there's some haste and classic situation too. She's like the senior person there simultaneously training training, Yeah, which I feel like an enterprise. They're constantly in training mode to pick up in the in the customs of Mexico. Not this time, last time someone called him. Two times ago someone called him, mom, is this what you're talking about? Which I thought was an insult, just sounds insult. I guappo. That doesn't sound good, but in fact it means handsome one. That wasn't El guapo. But she looked at his passport. She liked what she said. Yeah, I think that was a little instigated, but was by John Snow. But either either way, UM, the vehicle permits. Uh, they need to go out, look at the the number on the vehicle, come back inside with you. Then you do some paperwork, you get some stamps, you make some signatures, you leave, go make some photocos. There's a lot of rim roll about the weight of the vehicle. So we even met a guy that likes to make an his trailer. He makes a fake weight plate and tries to make it all the official looking and riveted onto his trailer so in a really easily to locate place so that he can be like, look, h here's your g v g v W. Yeah, and he just like made a make believe one to to to not have to argue about it so much. Yeah, it costs you a little bit more. There's sort of trying to like it sounds like from what Jake understand, they're trying to restrict commercial vehicles that are not permanent coming down from the US. And as soon as your truck has four doors instead of too, it jumps some class and whatever ends up costing you another ten dollars US. It's not a big deal. So far, we've done a good job of not making CU's deer hunting too popular. If that's what you're worried about. God, yeah, it's good. Yeah, yeah, no, this we give ourselves a day and we start at the butt crack. McDonald's is barely open because you want to get your last gets his annual McDonald's. Yeah, you want to get your last McDonald's at about six thirty am, and then you head to the border by seven and uh, you know, I forget what time it was. It was to thirty when we left. Oh, the Eagles. The Eagles alcohol free year has ended, and he's entered into a sugar free quarter of a year. I think I'm feeling better after two weeks of no sugar than I did after the whole year of no drinking. And I'm funnier. According to my old lady, Yeah, yeah, he was doing a year end Yeah, he was doing like a year end review with his wife to see how everything's going. And she kind of is just not as funny as he wants was what's count's deep man cuts? Well, she did it with a wink yea because you were yeah, because you never had you never like lightened the load with a beer or anything. You know, no, no, but there. I don't think it was too thirty quite yet, because we probably had to make one. It was probably to thirty when we actually started driving towards. So after oh, we're not done yet. At the first stop at the edge Wana, so you get all, you get your tourist visa, you get your vehicle permits. Then you have to check your guns with the cops. The cops, so you bring them out over to the cops, say you need to check our guns. You have your you have your cartouches with you too, but you have your I just I want to interject here, like fact problem who who you are? The problem? Um has this amazing knowledge of how language works through many years of study and practice. Yet that is true, it is subverted by this old man Michigander mentality of like, man, it's just too late to learn Spanish. My chance. So I'm just gonna willfully remain outside of even attempting to try. Security formed a sentence that I'm still proud of Yeah. No, that was a good one. I said, um, uh, something to the effect of, K has no familia v v and est casa and it's totally wrong. But they looked at me for men in A light bulb went off and they knew what I was trying to say. It'd be like if someone came to in English and said something to the effect of, um, why is no family to live in that house? I'm in with me the one i'm And when Steve saw the light bulb of recognition go off, I told everyone about it. Basically spiked the football and ran down the tunnel and went home at work. Here has done glass? Yes, glass, yes, yeah, Yeah, it's really a shame. And I gave up really early. I gave up early. I hadn't. I wasn't even I gave up fifteen years ago. It's all out of the next generation. Now my shoulders are in they've always been in Spanish. It's like I can't do it a man, as my friend, uh Matt Cook will remind you, Um, a man's got his limits. I'm sorry, You're honest, quite all right. So yeah, the cops, Uh was that was that a jab? Because I just said, cartouches just needed to be sad, Steve, that's please. Uh. They look at your you have your gun permit that they came from the federal government and has your rifle. In my case, had a rifle and a shotgun on there with the serial numbers, the make, model UM and then all the gun permits, say a hundred cartouches, which means you have a hundred cartridges. No one cares about that's just one numbers. Again, they don't care about it. But I feel like early on the first couple of times I went, they would always want to see the cartridges. They would look to see that the cartridges were of the same caliber that your rifle was. But the last few years they haven't. And I had them checked when I crossed a couple of years ago, he didn't. So again, it could just depend on the port of entry or whatever. But they check it that. They take your passport for a minute, I'm guessing they make a copy, they give you a stamp, or maybe they check your you know your name, make sure you're not a wanted man in Mexico. They come back, give your passport back, give you a stamp. Then you're finally done at the Idwana and you head over to the military just right across from the gas station. They used to have a great area. Ship. Man, it went from being like a crazy Mexican gas station with like great food and kind of like it was like a little bit puzzling what was going on to being like it's like a seven eleven. Yeah, yeah, nothing that's not in a plastic bag to consume. No. I used to be like kind of like, what is this play oh ship, look at those tacos. But now it's like, now they have taco donuts. Yeah, they got the rollers with the hot dog. It's just I don't know what happened many new ownership. I guess bathrooms are Anyways, it was a taco donut. You park at the gas station, it was like, I gotta get one. I don't understand what this is. Probably I think I don't know. As a newcomer camera you can maybe well you've done it twice, and you've done it twice. Now cal too, you're on your second trip. But I always felt like the parking at the gas station and walking over to the military, that's when I started to have the feeling of like, Okay, this is getting a little bit different, you know that wh I'm used to in the beginning part, everything is pretty like official. There's cops and you know, it's like type when you're parking a gas station parking lot, it's a very truck stoppy gas station, a lot of activity. There's no parking area at the military. It's just right across the street. You park and grab your gun case and now you're a military compound. Yeah, and you have a gun and with bullets cartridges, and now you're just gonna walk across the street in Old next a go and into a military compound. And the thing is in the US, if you go into a military base, there are you know, I mean, there are many people in there who are will deploy and you know, will do service, right, But the base is not like a thing that's fighting. Doesn't happen there, No, But when you under a military base here, it's like it's a military like it's like conducting missions. It's like a base. It's a base, like a military that's conducting missions in its own country, which we don't do. You know in the guys, you don't do that under a very special circumstances. But these are guys who are sort of like actively engaged in a I don't know, you know, it's dramatic called a civil war, but I mean, you know, like actively engaged in so like combat operations against armed militia equivalents. Yeah, and you'll be kind of remind into that a lot of him because a lot of both the soldiers and police that you'll see, especially when they're out in trucks, they're wearing masks, you know, covering their faces. Just a very different kind of military base. It's like an outpost. It's interesting. I ever thought about that. That's just to protect their identities, so where they're not at work. That's interesting. So, yeah, you walk in there, you tell the fellow at the gate that you're there to check your rifles or we usually have with us a fellow by the name of Beto spelled with a B incredible arm wrestler. Incredible. I couldn't beat him. Um Beto could have been a linebacker, yeah in his day. Um and uh so he's with us as well as well. We get another fixture with us to cross the border too, named Salsa, and they're just there in case things go a little side of ways, Like you have a doubled up vent number and they're there so that in case someone um on the Mexican side doesn't want to try to speak English with you or trying to work it out in sort of a Spanglish broken you know, English Spanish way, that they can step in and say, okay, what needs to happen to keep his thing moving on? So betos with us. He says, hey, we're here to check our guns. They say, okay, go over there and stand in the it's like a little outbuilding basically uh cement or brick walls, tin roof, and there used to be a mannequin in there that was dressed in a in a military outfit. Yeah, then his pants broke. Yeah, well you were poking him and his outfit and his pants and his pants and everyone was uncomfortable. But I don't want to like put his pants back on them. So you stand there with his pants around his angles and had like a broken finger. You know, I bet you they had a GoPro running. And that's just one of those like behind the scenes Mexican TV like like to do. It just gets you to squirm. You know, You're sitting there looking at the manneque with no pants on, and it's like hand was broken away. He's like giving everybody the finger. I remember taking a picture of that, but I never used it. But then they replaced him with two rocket launchers. Yes, now there's nuts decorative with rocket launchers. It is so much more tidy now like now they like again. I think it's it might be because of the volume and why. It's the good old days now, but it's just like now. And it used to take sometimes an hour plus there and now you go in there. The dude comes over again. Yeah, you showed him the paperwork. He checks the serial numbers, passport. He leaves with him for five or ten minutes, comes back with a stamp on your gun permit. It's basically saying you have entered the country and you have your rifle. You get to go. And now the cops and the federal military, I know that you in this gun on our here. That's right. And he walked back across the street and get in the vehicle and followed betto tier Ranch. And then a magical thing happens. You drive down like a highway and then a dusty road and another dusty road, and then like nearly impassable roads and then all of a sudden you're on a place that you can't scratch the surface of. Nothing's around, but just like quiet wild yeah, ranches, the size of national parks. Yeah, the quiet he should we should talk about that. It's like all that, all that apprehension, and all of a sudden you're like in a place that you're in a play, You're in an environment place that you just are not going to replicate. No, relax, Oh, look at that tree has thirty five bluebirds in it. That's night just goes, it goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on. Do you think a hundred years ago they were more people in that country than there are. I wouldn't be surprised. Maybe, I don't know why I wouldn't be surprised at some point that for whatever economic factors that used to support more people than does. General urbanization's happened in the last hundred years for sure. So it's a hard place to scratch. Shot of living, Yeah, and the mechanization of of running. Those copper minds that are there probably did, probably had more folks working in them prior prior to right now. I would think it legitimately might be more pristine today than it was a hundred years ago when you get in those ranches. Yeah, Like you know, certain counties in the American Great Plains like lose population. But I wouldn't be surprised. You see a lot more um stuff that was once something and isn't anymore than you do things that are being made now. Yeah, absolutely, because just like things like you guys, I guess that used to be like a thing. Yeah that's a good description. Yeah, where people hung out. But you know, it's it's really stunning to be down there. It's definitely worth the hassle. I love it. I love it. It's great and there are and you get the sense there's a thing we'll talk about like in Western I guess it's true everywhere now it's true. And any kind of um, I shouldn't say any kind most kinds of like I would say most kinds of big game hunting in in in this country, there are so many it's the I would say, it's the norm to have it be that someone lays eyes on most animals, like someone sees most animals, like in heavily hunted deer areas, someone sees every dear right often it's just like kind of like expected that someone else has seen it. But you just get the sense too, there's like, um, you sense that there's like just deer that go unseen. Oh, there were parts of that ranch, the especially up behind in the up behind the ranch house that dear dear dying of old age in there, no doubt, you can't see him. You can't see anything. Just the whole mountain sides you can't see. You just can't get a vantage and some of that stuff. But there's deer sign everywhere. Yeah, but no one ever goes on that hill. There's no reason for anyone to ever go there. We had a ranch your ones tell us on another ranch behind it. We had a ranch ones talk about a part of the ranch and said that he hadn't been there in three years. Wow. Yeah, that's that's amazing. Yeah. I mean they most of them probably have one, but Carrol that rides almost every day and it hits you know, probably takes some two weeks to do the loop right through the whole place, and that annually. They have a party. It's a party is to get together. It's a work thing. They have a name for it, but basically they hire a bunch of hands and they it's like moving cattle day, round up and moving cattle, trying to get cattle out of the mountains. Yeah. Around here it's called the shipping party. There you go, it's not called a roundup. Well, the roundup happens, but that's not a party. Once you ship the calves, then you get a party. Oh I got you. Yeah, that's when the work works done. Yeah. So there's not a lot of people, not a lot of you don't you just don't see a lot of boot tracks if any ann I don't know that we did see any tracks. The way you hunt the stuff is you hunted. Um. I would describe it like it's very good, sort of gross too close. Um, not gross, like oh that's gross, but gross, meaning like whole entirety where you kind of go down these spots and the first thing you want to do is just start out being in any anywhere we can just see tons of ship right, let's get up and you want to see a lot looking at hillsides. Um, it's not so much to your I think every time we go, you get to a point where you're you're looking in a in a targeted fashion. But early on you're just trying to like you're just looking kind of like looking where you can see, and what you can see is hillsides, like when you're on the hillside looking at hillside, like the things laid out for you, like flat ground is hard to observe what's going on. It's not that they're not there. I'm sure they're there, but you go to the places they're like most easily to survey, and you get up high and look and just try to find areas of activity. And then over the days, if you have you would be probably I would not do it. Um, I would not do it with a fewer than four days. Yeah, I would even say seven, say I would not. I would be like, man, I'm not you know, it would be fun, but four would be light. Yeah. Five We did five just now and it was light. It takes, be honest, and I did a lot of talking over just glassing on the way, um, you know, back to Tucson from from the ranch, and um, you know, I still find it very hard to properly wedge into my brain the actual scale of the animal, like it is so small, and then that the size of that animal in relation to the you know, the flora down there. All you know is that a big ocatillo, is that a smaller ocatio? You know, it's just not that familiar yet. And then I am scanning the hillside the way I would a mule here, scanning four a mule deer at that speed, and it's too fast for the scale of accous deier for my for my eyes and I and I would know it, but I'm so I spent so many hours looking for mule here. That's still I can't differentiate between the two yet. So then I have to like stop and nice you're talking about your technique, because you kind of agreed with that, like you're just moving too fast. We'll tell people your observation about you know, whatever the hell skill is. Yeah, this is an old saying, but buddy of mine, who likes to gamble, always says, uh, luck is where skill meets opportunity. And I found for for me, locating a CU's deer is where persistence in glassing meets movement. Like if that once you said it, I was like I once you said it, I was like, to be honest, I would say that the ones I spot or maybe more are because I pause and catch something move a tail flicks, it steps. It's because like I catch something move I catch a movement. Yeah, well, I mean it can it can be. I mean those are like the big movements that you at, you know, like an actual body walking or the tail flick is pretty big one. But a lot of times you pick up like them chewing their cut, and that movement right there is what tips them off. Yeah, you have to you can't just scan, you don't. You don't do it moving. You have to do move, stop, move, pause, observe, And it bothers your eyes to do it. But I roll my eye go and like check everything. I stop and don't just look. Like you could get in the trap of like looking at the site picture through your binoculars, but rather than looking sort of like studying the site picture, you then are moving your eyeballs around. So as you're looking through a Peri bonnoculars at a hillside, however a thousand yards away, which be kind of close actually, but you're looking and you have this round despite the move What the movies will tell you on a person of the movie looks through binoculars, they're seeing two circles. They're shadowy around the edges, you're actually looking at a clean circle, and within that circle, you have to move of your eyes around and check everything. You check every under every tree, and move it. It's it's taxing on your eyes. But typically it's like that, all of a sudden, something moves. Oftentimes within my site picture through my binoculars, I will in my peripheral vision see a movement, and then I don't move my binoculars. That just like move my eyes over. It sounds funny, but like like move your eyes over to that part of that site picture to see what it was that moved, and you'd be like, oh, it's a bird. It's like that level of movement, like a bird flicking in a bush. I think this is what you're talking about. I think the most important piece of gear you can bring on this thing is a tripod for your binoculars because you have to do the movement, because you can't do what we're talking about. And I totally agree with you guys, like that's how you found them, that they're moving. But if you're hand holding binoculars and you're scanning a hillside, you'll never catch any of this stuff we're talking about because you don't when you're scanning. You don't catch You don't catch birds. No, I'd pick up I pick up road runners, all kinds of little birds, you up rodents. It's like all movement. Not only you just see one, but a lot of times it's just that it's like some picked up a pair of dose two dos um and these are like gray you know, gray colored cus deer. If you can imagine, their backdrop is gray rock, as if they changed color to meet to match the rock perfectly. Um. And they were four hundred yards away maybe, and I could not see those dough and I just got yeah, but they're incredibly difficult animals to spot, they really are. And what she said cal about the scale. That was the one thing I struggled with that moving my binoculars too much, too much scanning. But there'd be spots. You know, you look at spots and you think, all, I can imagine seeing a deer there, right, And every once in a while they're okay, there is one coming across this yellow, open slope. But what I was looking at was much smaller than what I was imagining. You know, you look at the plants next to it and you realize your scale was all off. What I was looking for was something much bigger than what is actually there. I often question my range finder. Like two nights ago, I crept out to where we knew one was bedded, and I was like, it's gonna be like six hundred yards away, but I kept getting those three m like this one's gonna be messed up. I'm like tapping it and like mentally you're like, okay, it can be a little off, but not half off, not half the distance. It's amazing how three d yards. Sometimes you pick one up glass and you're looking at him and it's pretty close, you know, and you're like, oh sweet, and then you just pull your by knox down and you look over the top of them just to see where it is with the naked eye, and you can't. You think, well, there's no way that three yards. I can't see this animal. Put your by knox up there. He is playing his day broadside Buknox down just gone. A common conversation is something like, oh, there's one. So I was like where, I don't know. I don't want to take my eyes off, and then I'll like I'll then I'll what I explain where it is, and so like really like market with a bunch of ship. It's a bush of tree is dump. But I'll like go up real quick to the skyline and pick off some feature on the skyline and then zip back down to find my dear and then be like it's under whatever. You know. Yeah, and your heart's like frozen because you're like, oh, they hope they're gonna he's gonna vanish. Kevinus are fine and one not moving. And it was that you saw its salts nose, the shine off its nose. It has nothing to do with what's that shiny black thing? Yeah, there's no shiny black things in the bush. It was that deer was so unlucky. Yeah, and COO's deer nose for reference, would be about the let's say the base of a pop cam in in size, like the shine off the base of a popcam. How far were you to us for one of these? But yeah, I saw jet black jet black spot in a bush. That's who I tipped them off. If it's not movement, it's also um a certain sunlight at certain angles on the on their hide. Yeah, bull betray them. Uh. Some of the best conditions the loca them are when the sun blasts in a hillside in the morning, they can they can make them pop. And then there's like there's conflicting theories about this, but they're they're they're not. They don't have a wide comfort and they're not I don't think they have like a huge range of degree. What am I trying to say that their their window of comfort for temperature is narrow. I mean they seem to play the sun a lot, and like they play like shadow shade not shade. On cold nights, they're like they seem to like when the sun his still side, they just really seemed like the basket. It's where the sun the hillside. You're looking and looking, look, there's nothing there. Also in the sun gets kind of intense on the hillside, and also one's just there and you're like, oh, he must have just stood up, because it's no way he walked in there. And they'll stand turn sideways to the sun with just kind of like this like relaxed look on their face, not doing anything, and just like absorb the sun for some period of time. Um, but then they don't like that and then they slip around the earth side of the hill to get in the shade. Yeah. I don't know. I wish I knew what that comfort range was for a cuz here, but yeah, if you're gonna set your thermometer for that, it's like an old grandma. Yeah, yeah, they like it between sixty eight and seventy two or like whatever the joke is, right, something like that. For sure, they don't any fat on him, right, no thin hide, no fat tons of surface area relative to mass. Uh. We gotta talk about your last your last night of hunting, and just that how comfortable. The other question for me would be to truly determine how comfortable or confident these deer are in their hiding ability, because it seems to me like once they find a spot to bed down, they're like, nothing's gonna find me, so they can walk as close as they can. And Kevin, you had that on on the same day as that you found your buck by looking at the spot on his nose, right, you had um Carrol come up. Carroll come up and and uh, I'd seen a really nice buck, and I'd seen three dos And I kind of made a push halfway up that ridge to to see if I can get closer and get a good look at him. And I get there and I hear someone talking, and it's it's a guy on a horse like kind of in the middle of nowhere, hanging out. Yeah, like the one the phone booth as I preferred to it up there. It's like the one spot where you got two bars on your cell phone. And he was sitting there talking away. He got two dogs running around with him. And after about fifteen minutes, he kind of rides off, and it was a little perturbed that I had made this push and these deer, and uh, I guess it was they honest, and Anthony, I think, kind of slid lower on the hill and that guy wasn't gone fifteen minutes, and those doughs stood up. They had never moved. They were about a hundred and ten yards hundred forty yards from somewhere in there. And he sat there on his horse with two dogs running around, and he rode out right next to him and they sat tight in that bush. They never moved. Then the buck I ended up shooting. Um, he saw me, right, that's one of the only deer that I found, Like, but you don't see me. He was. He was pretty confident that you know he saw me, that I that I didn't know where he was. Well it's really hard to see him like that. It was a good spot, and when they are under that brush like that, an old bush and the shadows, it's very difficult to see him. We spotted over the course of the week very few bedded dear. The ones that we did kind of gave themselves up. They were skylined or whatever, but very few. Like you know, meal deer hunting and things like that, you pick them out underneath the bush or a shrub. These things vaporize, you know, right in front of you. Sometimes you're looking at them. They step behind a bush and then they never come out. No one ever sees them again. I've been in places where they tend to they'll bet up on like open hillside, but they'll get under a big oak or something to bed. But these guys just go in there like cocktail rabbits. They disappear, they go into it. We we we've all, we've been toying for you with this idea, like can you like there's a thing called rattling a deer in for people who aren't super familiar with all this stuff, is basically um at a certain point in their cycle, their annual cycle, and they're getting I think particularly when they're getting ready to go into breeding season, they're doing a lot of sparring, you know, like different box these kind of like casual fights. You know, they'll get into just sort of measure up who's the man who's not um and they fight a lot. No way to lure deer in is to to make the sound of things of deer fighting. Uh. It's particularly like associated with white tail hunting. You clack, you like literally take two antlers and bang them together and make the noise of deer fighting and dear. Well, yeah, probably out of like a lot of curiosity. Maybe it means that there's a doe over there and they're fighting over Anyways, they'll come in and we keep toying around with like various such situations of trying to like rattle to see how these like little desert white tails will respond to rattling. Call. And I are watching a deer and it's bed um at. It was yards away, and we're like, let's watch him and then rattle and see what he if he likes it, And Cal starts clacking away and the second Cal starts clacking. I'm watching this buck and all he does is one not both, but one of his ears moves back and then it goes back to where it was, and like he just doesn't care. I'm gonna take note, I'm gonna write it down, but I'm not getting And that deer we had found a deer there was that distance way and started to stalk it, and they got moved at one point and I got into where I got into where I was three d yards away from where the deal was betted, could not pick it out. And it's our last dayver hunt. It's getting darker, darker, darker. It gets to be around five o'clock. It's dark at six. I find another dough with a smaller buck, and Cal is through in the spot. He's go watching the buck I'm supposed to be getting, and that buck's not a hundred yards away, hundred fifty yards away. And I shoot the other buck, and Chel said, all that buck did was move his ear. Yeah, the buck in the bed that I've been burning my eyeball out on, hoping he would stand up to give Steve a shacht when his compatriot there on the hillside where where his rival got uh ultimately killed by Steve um, will you make it sound? He goes drawn out in a very close to his bedded position. All that buck did was move an year, take note, and then move the ear back in position. And that was it. And I never never got an inkling of like, oh, he's gonna stand up, and it's just like he took notes. He's like nine yards to my left some jackasses making a loud noise, and then a hundred yards down there, my buddy just got shot and killed. Noted, I'm gonna stay in my bed. That's why you do, like I was saying, I just stayed in my bed. It's amazing, amazing. But yeah, I mean, between the it's just it's such a nice feeling down there. You just feel, um, you get get a good primitive feeling feeling. You get a good feeling of like being in the wild. Um, lots of bird activity. Um. Seeing the ha Alina's kind of randomly do their thing is very entertaining. Um. I mean, it's it's a bizarre landscape because some of the hiking is so pleasurable, and then you hit the wrong slope and it's just like walking on you know, softball, like walking on baseballs. I felt when we were packing your back out, I felt five times on that slope um dog ownership. Dog ownership is there's a different dog the human dog relationship is. I don't want to it's not I don't want to. I definitely use the word antiquated. There's also just a shifting perspective on dogs. Um, there are on these large cattle ranches, there are like packs of dogs. Yeah dogs you I'm assuming, dude, have not been named. Large groupings of dogs that kind of just like fend for themselves. They almost have a relation, like they almost have a relationship to the property almost like like it's a dog. Yeah, like a hog might have Like he's like, yeah, I'm gonna give a shit about people, but I'm here there's food. You know, I hang around here and there's there's food around here. Yeah, it's a mutualistic relationship, right, Like the dogs are gonna bark when something strange shows up. They are gonna probably give Kyle tell Yeah. Um, these ones definitely had a hurting instinct. Yeah, there were something they're watching those sheep for sure. That sheep. Then I'm sure that none. They love nothing more to chase and cattle around. Yeah, and then I think the dogs get you know, some sort of feed. Um, not not in the way we do it, not in the very very soft way we do it. I've you know, they feed them almost like how yeah, like how you slop hogs. It's just an earlier version of domestication. And uh so there's a benefit there. And then there's also I think a benefit to There is a very serious kyote population out there, and so these dogs instead of being on hyper aler all night if they were outside fending for themselves, they're in a in a spot that's got enough mark of man to where the coyotes are, and the cats and stuff were kind of giving them, uh a wider berth is my guesses how that kind of trade off works. We struck off from this ranch house one morning on foot and right away there's like this little dog with us, and we holler at it and be all mean to it and throw rocks. Yeah, not trying to hit it, trying to spook it. But the dog knows the rock throwing routine enough for when I went to pick up a rock and it took off, he's been and spend his whole life getting pummeled rocks. And then we're like, okay, we took care of that problem, and we'd walk another half mile and then here's this dog be again, and we do the holding over again, and then we did it three times, three times like legit ran the dog off, and eventually he just Now we're two miles away, but he's still with us. And then we're like, all right, you just hang out. When he slid in at the two mile mark, it had been every i mean every bit more than an hour since we've seen that dog. Yeah, he would blood trailer, and we had moved a long way not blood cent trailia. And we eventually let him hang out and he hangs out his all day, nicest dog in the world. We're patting him hanging out. I'm trying. I'm trying to like think about looking up how to bring a dog home. Cow's like just bringing home and act like you had it coming in. I'm explaining that I'm just not in a position anymore to like lie to authorities. Um. So, then we're on a ridge that night and he see that some bit catch like his nose goes up in the air and catches wind of a deer, and holy shit, man, that dude knew what he was doing. It wasn't like he saw it. He caught wind and ran up and down the ridge a couple of times to narrow down the location, plunges off the ridge haul and ass. Pretty soon he's barking. I'm trying to figure out what's going on, even you. I see a dough squirting out across the valley flooring up the other side, and that dog still on him. And we thought, prove deer runner man, just yellow dog or the black black one. And then he came back just like we did it. He's like, I told you, I told you I was great. No one wanted to believe me. Good good hat. You guys didn't think I handed in me and Steve and I felt like, um, we we felt shamed. We felt like we've been we've been ahead by the dog. You guys were suckers, man, because then the rest of the week you're feeding them. I don't know. Did we feed the dog. Yes, we packed col and I packed out the Yeah, them deer legs, but never in the field. Never got fed in the field. I was laughing because, uh, those those two dogs, his yellow sister. They followed our truck the morning before, like all the way to the north and Joanna trying to outdrive him, which you can't do you can't outrun them. Yeah, and set up my spotting scope on the side of the road and sit down and uh, I have just like two puppies on top of me. And part of me's like, this isn't productive, and then the other part of me's like, but it's pretty awesome. Way that dog act a little bit well. I remember one time I came home and I had Tracy from work. She's overd and we're trying to film something. My kid climbs out out of the car. He's with his nanny and all the kids, and they climbed out of the car and he's got a McDonald's cup and the first thing out of his mouth is, you're gonna be disappointed in us. That's that dog. Every time that dog and show up, he's like, I know you're gonna beat me. I just know you're gonna beat me. But I can't help it. Just let's get it over with. And tried to persuade Steve into taking the dog because I said, think about it, you can tell your kids that they have to learn Spanish because the dogs from Mexico. It's the only thing he understands. They would learn in a hurry then, Uh, Anthony, that was your first successful coup. Give me you know, I've give me some impressions. Um, I mean they're they're beautiful, dear man. You get up you know they're white tails, but they're a little different and by name only, yeah, by name only, right, But when you get up there and you really get close to one, and you know, holding your hands and look at that fur that for so different there. You know, everybody calls him a gray ghost, right, but then you run your hand over that fur and see all the white in there and see the size. Um, it's just real cool to haunt a white tail that is so different but still a white tail. Oh what made him more familiar? Kevin saw one full on I've never seen this. He saw one work a scrape. Yeah yeah, actually in a scrape. We think it's I think it literally might be the same tree we saw one work of scrape last year. But um, you know he came in, worked a scrape, pete in it, kick the crap out of the bush next to it, scraped it some more, beat up another bush, and then just like cruised on out of our life and branch. He did everything in about a minute. That you ever see a deer do in the rut and then over the back of the ridge never to be seen again. Um, yes, that was the first one. Yeah, Um, yeah, it was. It was fun. And you know, what's what I think is really fun about the hunt. We've talked about the terrain and um, how beautiful and different it is, but it's it's a really cool mix of it's really challenging to find them and to stop close enough, but it's, um, you end up, you work at it, you see enough, and you have your chances. So it's like you kind of you always feel like you're in the game or that any minute could happened. Cal and I were hunting and we hadn't spotted a deer in a couple of hours and got to that point of the day We're sitting in the sun where um, it's like a nap sounds pretty good. So I laid out and put my hat down, had a nap for fifteen minutes, talking about what we're gonna do, and then it all happened real quick. You know, we see a doe run and a smaller buck chasing his buck came in. You kind of always have that feeling that it could happen at any moment. That's that's a good that's a good point, I thought. And trying to explain why I've come to like it so much is it's a really nice blend in this area. It's a great mix of effort and reward. Where we hunted in Texas not long ago on a on a big private unhunted ranch, they had a lot of nil guy and the mix was unusual. Yeah, you remember, like, uh, the UNI bomber. Do you read the UNI Bomber's manifesto? I have. Actually his problem was what he didn't like his um he had all human activity broken down in these like classifications of effort, and he said, like staying alive used to be like that took level five effort to stay alive. Like level five effort was try as hard as you can and you had a chance, right, And that's what he that's when he thought human that that's what we thrive under. We thrive under is tried as hard as you can for a chance. But technology had gotten into where survivals level one, where um, you don't try at all and you're guaranteed to survive. So his gripe with technology was that then that gave us all of our neurotic behaviors in our unhappiness. So what you want to do is use technology to wage war on technology and then discard the implements of war as you could until it was a battle of sticks and stones, and that he would un obamus back to uh un Obamas. Back to level five survival. Try as hard as you can and you might survive. Um down, we're hunting Texas is like try kind of not at all, you'll be successful. And then there's whatever. It's like hunting doll sheep in the fog, which is level six. Try as hard as you it's still not gonna work, um, but it's a really nice like try hard and you're gonna be rewarded just enough to really hold your interest. It's like it's like it's like a it's like a it's sort of like this vending machine almost, you know. It's like there's sort of like this like a known transaction. I'm gonna put five bucks where the effort in and I'm gonna get a five dollar product, right, but it's not a dollar worth effort. It's five bucks worth the effort. Every day it feels like that. It's like We're gonna work, work, work, and then it just could happen. It was a really great blend main goals going down there. I was just I just it's been a long time since I've got a good nap on the mountain in the sun, and I was so looking forward to that and the neuroses of spotting that deer I got. I think I got one ten minutes snooze in and in five days and has with you. And I had made the the mistake arresting my head against some branch on the tree. I had leaned up against him. Eventually the brand broke and snaped me back into consciousness, and I turned and glassed the hillside and my eyes were kind of coming into focus on this. Uh CU's dear tough walked right into the into the into the fuzzy black circle at that point, and um, but it was, yeah, I'm captivated by those things. So I was like I couldn't. I just couldn't comfortably sleep because I was like, yeah, yeah, because well where skill meets opportunity, Yeah, they're rare enough that everyone you spot has a little element of like holy shitness has a little element like you're pleased with yourself. Everybody's like, ha, damn it, I still got it to the to the point that where when somebody else spots a deer, eventually, if there's five guys on that hillside, eventually all five are gonna be like, um, can you walk me into that can show me where there's not so many that no one airs like every deer. Everyone like you'll be like, okay, that's cool, he says it. I'll keep looking. But they're coming and they're like, yeah, you know you know that, dear you mentioned, Yeah, where exactly? For me, it's like almost like okay, recalibrate, look at a live one, look at one that is there for sure, and then get a good dose of that a little bit of extra dopamine. Then keep looking again. Oh go ahead. What's really telling about this is when you're sitting back with you know, three of us glassing and someone spots a dough, all three people ask get walked into the dough. If you're looking at white tails in the Midwest and someone sees a dough, everyone's oh, whatever, right, someone spots a dough and everyone people are like getting spotting scopes out and everyone wants to get on the dough. Yeah, it's like it's the rut, right, So, I mean it's like, you know, oftentimes that's what you find one and you just gotta stairs stairs, stairs, stairs, stairs, stairs, stair and eventually get like she's by herself. But sometimes you expect and like macho grande. I had some one other observation about UM. Oh. I think I think we debated a long time ago, probably last time we were all high on COO's Deer, Uh, was the value of a unit of measurement in describing things to people. I've come to believe that establishing a unit of measurement in proximity to the thing you're trying to describe is valuable. You find a tree and we're like that the width of that tree is our unit of measurement. Go seven units to seven o'clock. Yeah, I'm a I've become a firm believer despite what jaysach what's that called the guys that call air uh, Yeah, there seems to be some discussion among pilots in JASACH like guys that call strikes. I think there's some disagreement in that community about UM. We had a JSACH operator be like talk about is a method of establishing a unit of measurement. And uh A pilot said, nothing sucks the energy out of a cockpit more than a jsach operators suggesting a unit of measurement. But I'm a believer in the cous deer woods. I'm a believer in the unit of measurement. Well, we had a conversation. You were like thirty yards to my right and we're trying to talk about where that deer's betted. I'm like, okay, now this oak has a white trunk. It's this one's not snapped off the base. This one snapped off like ten twelve ft from the base. Ten twelve ft up the trunk gets snapped off and I and I hear Steve go, well, I don't agree with the hype, but I know what trigger Okay, An, you know what I don't mean. I don't mean to tell you what to do, but you do talk about Jay a little bit. Jay is an interesting dude. Feel like he's an anomaly as a guide, do you m M anomally? I just think he's like he's just like so like just very organized and even keeled and predictable. His actual business acumen, I find is a two type of guide quality he's in the two percent. But business not like business like like Eberneese or Scrooge kind of business, but just like a customer care and that even sounds we don't how to describe it. You just feel like like very You just feel like you're very good hands. Yea, yeah, he's dialed. Yeah, I don't know if it's o c D. But like, no, you think there's elements of that. Well, but the same way that you have it for keeping your garage organized, you know that's o c D. He just applies that to getting his forms all tight. He's like delivering. I feel that he I feel that Jay Scott really um ah um. Besides what it might mean for like his business ever, really he has a per He feels a deep sense of personal obligation that when people that are interacting with him in that relationship, I feel that there's like something beyond money or whatever, like like a personal sense that like he owes that person a level of care and service. Over a bunch of years of interacting with him, I think he's just doing a good job. Yeah, but over a lot of years of dealing with guides and outfitters, I'll tell you there's only one person I've ever shown up to and had them hand me a Manila envelope with my name on it, with every all the paperwork and and duplicates or triplicates, and sample forms and sample forms on how you feel things out. Yeah, he's got a real passion for those deer, especially for big, big versions of the buckey kind. Um. I mean, that's why he does it. And he likes to spread the joy. He's not holding back, He's not holding the pickle recipe. Matt Dross. You know, I want to say that the drills um for a long time, it was it was it was his family's pickle recipe, and and and and and it was shared. It was shared, it was eventually shared. Do you have it? You read it out on the Mediator podcast. I'm gonna give you the pickle Recie. I'm talking about Kevin Boddy. You know, you know your overview. You know, this is round two for me. Last year was the first time I got a chance to go chase these things. And um, I remember last year when we were we were packing up to leave. Um, you know, we talked about coming back, and I didn't hesitate to say sign me up, right, I want to do it again. It's it's a really special hunt there. They're a great critter, It's in an awesome spot. Um, it's beautiful down there right going in the up in the mountains, in the desert, that time of air is fantastic. Um, so all of it is like it's a great experience all around. You know, people talk about a one and done hunt. No, this is not no like muskats and then goes like Musko. I'm sure some people do, but it's like you go on, so you know, yeah, I could do this every year, but it's not like it's not it's the thing. It's for me. It feels like turkeys. As soon as it ends, I'm like, dude, next, next, next years. Yeah it is. It feels a bit like you know, to me, it's it's a different critter, but the hunts really similar. It's it's kind of like hunting not ad like in the West Texas Mountains. Reminds me a lot of that. The hunts really similar. Um. It's a team sport too. I think that's another really cool part of that. Um, you know, almost sharing a lot of relevant information and yeah, um, which is kind of fun, right. You know, the traditional white tail hunting, especially if you're an archery guy. That's a that's an individual sport, right, You're not hanging out. It's not social sport at all. This is this was really fun. You know, I love I love this hunt. And hell, how this hunt goes down with a great it really is. It's kind of that's a good point about it. It's not like a loner thing. I'm sure there's probably some guy that does it that way, but it really invites because there's a lot of space to go around, there's a lot of information to get shared. Hunting together is very effective. Um, there's so much ground that like two guys can sit next to each other and you're not overlapping. Yeah, you guys are probably gonna see twice as many deer as one guy would. Yeah, it's great to have another set of eyes, you know, I mean a week of five hours a day behind the glass by yourself be you know, when your eyeballs had fall out into your head would get probably pretty scrambled at that point. Right. So that's another part of this I thought was you know that I love about this hunt. This is absolutely kind of a team sport hunt. Yeah, I don't know any more capacity. I don't know the full capacity of how many uh um, how much more? You know, how many more people could go? I said, you have, like, I don't know, Well, it depends on how many tags you have at the ranch. Certainly if everybody wants to have the opportunity to kill one. But it wouldn't matter to me really just to go down and hang out I would have I'd be like, oh cool, I have to deal with forms, just have to get a Tourists had a recap call with Jay this morning. He just called to see, you know how it went for us, and uh we guy just talking about just how important it is to It speaks of the team effort and how you cannot like once you find one and if there's even sort of this idea that you that might be the one that you're gonna then continue to pursue and try to kill it cannot leave someone's eyeballs at all times. Once you've made that decision. You have to have a hunting partner that when you say are you on that deer, They're like yes. And that means I will not pee, I will not snack, I will not look to the top of the ridge. I will when he goes behind the bush for twenty minutes, I'm not gonna go start to look around for other deer. I will look at that bush until that deer walks back out. It takes that level if you want to be constantly successful at you know, at killing box and especially mature box. Do you remember when we put dirt years ago? Remember we putting dirt, myuth on washing the deer, big old but hillside one juniper on it, or like dirt is a deer behind that juniper. Don't take your eyes off and hours go by, when we come back, it's still there there. There's no way it's still there. And he let it slip. He scratched it. Couldn't scratched his eye. Man, we never went over there to check, uh Phil. So let's say you do your hunt safety. Are you scheduled? Uh No, not yet. And I'm still waiting to for Ben to come back. So we're gonna have a talk about what the plan is. I guess you go do hunters safety. That's a good point. Has been on paternity leave, yeah, I mean it's I haven't gotten an update, but his child should have been born yesterday. Anybody his wife is a little sick with infection, so they put off the real Yeah, so they put off the C section for a couple of days so that she's going in every day and doing so hopefully hopefully any day. Good luck to them. Uh. Once you talk to Maggie and Tracy, they'll tell you how to do hunter safety. Yeah, I'm doing it. So let's say you did do it. You're doing it? Yes? Uh? Are you sold not sold? Well? I had to talk with Calan Ben about this. I have zero expectations, but I'm looking forward to it. Are you sold on? Would you go down to Mexico specifically for cuty? Are you not there yet? I mean I don't think I'm there yet. I think every everyone would probably agree, But I mean it sounds like a killer experience. Sounds great, Yeah, especially for people who've been doing this their whole lot. I was and still still get like jazzed about something like this. Yeah. Good, I'll put you in touch with Jay. You'll be the old You're gonna be the oldest guy in hunter safety. Oh yeah, for sure. We'll be there with a bunch of twelve year old No, they'll score better. That's fine, that's fine. Hold, are your kids six and one. Also they're not doing it yet, No, not not quite. Yeah. Um, any any final thoughts and well if you are interested Colburn and scott Outfitters dot Com right, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know we keep talking about JA but um, I don't want to be like the unsung here. But you know Dark his partner, Dark Colburn, who I love just as much. Yeah, he can glass him up there every bit as good as Jay can. Yeah. We didn't see him this trip, so he wasn't top of mind. No, no, I don't even know if he got it. I think he just he took his boys down for the first time to Mexico right after the holiday. That's nothing I like about Dars. He's uh, very devoted um training his kids up and hunting. Well, I think that's the training is over, man, He's living. He's living the fruits of his labor right now. I mean, I think he's really like he planned that and like, you know, not everybody's kids grow up to be hardcore hunters, but like he's sort of you know, guided his kids to that and now they're like, that's what we want to do and we want to do it with you, dad. And you know, I think guy as a father. He's just like, yeah, nothing beats this, like I did it. He didn't name him hunter either, did he No, but one has the middle name of Coups. Oh, we can't leave the counter the final thing. We got to leave the conversation. But I know that some number of people are like, no, there's no there's one guy, just one guy. Screw him. You know what I'm gonna talk about. I think cows. Cows. Yeah, it's not worth it. I've talked to the guys. Yeah, it's not worth it. And I like to plant for those of you you are like, it's not what are you supposed to say? It's cows. I've talked to the individuals who I know I know this like empirically, who have said the word and written the word more than anyone else in the world, and they say, KU's deer. And one of them told me, and I will say it until I die, it's not cows. Whatever. Call what you want, just don't don't write us about it. Is that. You know what we're talking about. It's like, oh, sorry, what do you a little gray deer that hid? Real? Will that one? Yeah? Okay? They used to call it the Arizona. Dear, didn't they at one point? No? But Elliott cows cows Elliott cows. Uh. He has some strange beliefs he bleed in, like levitation and all kinds of stuff. Interesting dude read up on him sometime that I want to talk about that. So people who have to write the email about that, Um, the severed finger at all, the tendon. I can't decide if I'm gonna put it on Instagram or not. Probably not, so I don't probably look for that. Uh, probably have to say. Um just mentioned a big thank you for everybody who's already purchased tickets for the meat Eater off the tour. Damn it cow. Yeah, that's that's a good one. I've been getting a lot of emails on that. You know, I used to how I used to to be. I used to not like ads, you know, when they run an ad like you don't run ads for free on TV, right, And he'd run an ad being like hurry up and buy now. They're going fast, And I think, well, if they were going fast, why would you wouldn't still run that because you'd be like those are when they went there the limited supply Like sure, But I don't buy it because if it was limited, if they're all out, you wouldn't pure marketing. So I don't. So I'm in his trap, trap because tickets are going fast. Yeah, you know what, I'm not lying. Take's going fast. Portland's sold out in four hours. All the v I P tickets are gone. I would guess, because we're talking about Sonora and that borders Arizona, I would guess when it's hits, you might get You can probably get Arizona tickets mesa Phoenix market. I haven't checked. I was just saying, thank you very much. Well, you're not selling tours off to a great start, and uh, we probably need to. It's not really an apology. We can't be at every city everywhere, but you know, hopefully eventually we'll come see you. And don't take it personally that we don't have a venue booked in your hometown right now. What happened and I had a feverish dream where I conceptualize this thing called dollar Dance with cal for twenty bucks for conservation. So if you do have a live ticket to come to meet your live off the air, bring twenty bucks because you might need it if you want to dance with Cal in a little spotlight, and we're gonna be marching, Dick. Cal is gonna think about getting some better shoes. Cal, let's say you had to dance with a couple hundred people. Yeah, man, the logistics of this, Uh, you want me to cancel it? How would you cancel selling with a name like dollar dance with Cal for twenty bucks for conservation? I mean that's like the stuff. That's a great name. Yeah, And I'm a sucker for things that go to conservation. So we can't cancel it. We just gotta figure out a way to make it. Maybe a little kisses like kisses, it's gonna be male, does matter me? Kiss Cal for twenty bucks for conservation, Just a big old kissing life. Anyway, it's your chance. I'm gonna be there a chap rowing and I want anyone goosing him. I don't want anyone gooseing them or grabbing him in any kind of untoward fashion. Uh. Detroit. When I when I say these a lot of times, like the it's like the market, So like the Detroit, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Boston, Phoenix, Philly, Pittsburgh, Boston, d C, d C, Minneapolis, did I say that. Yeah, we're going back to many. Yeah, Portland, the sorry Frederick Maryland is at the DC show. That's right, in the parlance of tour agents as the DC market, but it's not in d C. And uh yeah, a lot of love on the last time this tour. It's a lot of love the people who live in in in uh areas where their lifestyle doesn't get a lot of support, right, Oh, like they're not out, It's all I say. It's like, yeah, I mean, like, you know, gazillions of people who like hunting fish, right, but I kind of like that do in l A, San Francisco? Portland's Oh yeah, it's funny because it is places for tickets go fastest, which is the weirdest thing because it's like, oh thank god. Remember in Spinal Tap that it was like civilization. Um, did you get that reference film? You're too old for that? Too young? Absolutely not? Now you didn't get absolutely not. I'm not too young for that was one of my favorite movies. Turn it up to eleven. Never laughed harder in my life than when they bring the Little Stonehenge monument down its tiny crank. Do you mentioned the l A Market? Oh, yeah, we're talking about l A. Alright, good, good, just checking make sure Chicago. Oh didn't mention Chicago is Anaheim l A or what do we call l A anaheim z l A. I tried to reach out to the cash you're killer, see if he can come out, but I haven't gotten hurt. I haven't I got a prompt him. Oh, Brian callin. Come on. Al right, guys, thank you very much for joining. Don't go cuz here hunting. Uh. I don't want to ruin a good thing. But the live shows. Tell j By no tickets are going fast. Tell j you won't pay more bucks. Jay is gonna be at the Mesa. Oh yeah, we're gonna have Jay on stage in Mesa. Yeah, give you some real I'm gonna have Jay come out, and Jay's gonna give us his top five Arizona hunting tips. You can do fishing tips to He fishes a lot because he fishes Colorado. How about top five Arizona hunting tips and top two Colorado fishing chips, and you's gonna learn how to do a drum roll. I think we should let him do top ten. He's got a lot in that coveasive his Spanish. It was a good Spanish. You know. Vaka means I do banyo, but I think it's probaca casa. I'm still getting it. Yeah, Binato got it, carn a banato, Emberra solamente, what's ember? Remember that one. It's more Spanish than he spoke all week. No, I don't know that one. Man. It's oh damn it, dope. Yeah. I always laughed because one of your favorite stories is cabasa debacca. Yeah, I know all those words. All right, go do something else. Thanks guys,