00:00:08 Speaker 1: This is me eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely bug bitten in my case underwear listening un podcast. You can't predict anything presented by on X Hunt creators are the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the Hunt app from the iTunes or Google play store. Nor where you stand with on x cal Your hat is um almost not even on Well, I had to jack it up because get these ear phones on. That's what's going on here. But it's like you got like a shop rag on top of your head. Yeah, do you have no hair? Uh? Here, here's one we're gonna get into medical. We have a special doctor, you know he would you call yourself a special doctor? Uh No, I would say I am an emergency medicine physician, but you can. My mom thinks I'm special. We're gonna talk about one thing that we're gonna get into things that are are medical ish because we have a doctor with us. Yes, introduce yourself real quick. My name is Alan Lazara and I am an emergency medicine physician from Michigan. I work in Jackson, Michigan at Henry Ford Allegiance Health and um Live. Part of my life Michigan, then mostly in Chicago, and then now back in Michigan. So I think of you as I've begun to think of you as are resident doctor because you write in a lot of times with really good medical information. That is a huge honor and nod. And all I can say is, you guys produced so much excellent material that I I'm just honored to be able to have a small saying in this situation. So great. Did you take ethics when you're in med school? Um? So it's built in we have UM in med school. I went to Loyola in Maywood, Illinois, which, um, I think is the best medical school in the country for sure, because I just it was the best educational experience that I had UM in my career. And we talked about patient centered medicine and part of that was learning how to communicate with people both emotionally, UM and through like difficult situations and how to deliver bad news and stuff like that. Ethics was built into that. Yeah, because here's the ethics. Here's an ethics conundrom. Okay, I gotta say that it's being an e R doctor. My my, uh, sometimes your your riding line on on ethical situations all the time. So yeah, well you can stay silent on. This's when you can weigh in. Okay, let's dude rights in. This is complicated because it involves a buck with three antlers. But he doesn't like acknowledge how unusual three antler de buck is. Okay, it involves a buck of three antlers. Guy in Virginia's a bunch of brothers. Okay. One of the brothers hunting and Virginia and shoots the three antlerd buck. Okay, talking about three points, talking about like two, Well, Brody just sent me a photo of three antlered elk like a unicorn and a deer put together three basses setops. There are a unicorn and a deer. Yeah, combo had intercourse, shoots, the shoots a three antlerd buck. Um, it falls over. He thinks his daddy runs up and then uh he get starts getting set up to take a photo of it, and it gets up and runs off. Scary situation it happened to any ones gets up and runs off, tries trailing it, can't find the thing anywhere. Month goes by on Christmas Day. His brother so the hunters is this collection of brothers and some several of them playing into the story. Christmas Day is brother is out in the cattlefield and finds a recently dead buck. It had at this point shed. It's two antlers, okay, but one of the third antler is still on the deer. And that's how they're able to be that's how they're able to ascertain. Hey, that's the buck that my brother killed. But when he killed it had three and it naturally shed, so it has clean pedicles where two of the three antlers have fallen off. It's all mauled up, been getting fed on by coyotes, but they can find a wound mark on the neck even though the hide is you know, in rough shape. Then the hunt is on for the antlers. So you got Now you got the brother that shot. You got the brother that finds the dead carcass with the one aniler. So he's got a skull with antler sticking out of it. This is getting biblical, I feel like, yeah, or it's like three brothers. Yeah, So the other brother is like a real antler hound, he explains, and this brother manager just go out and find the shed antlers. Okay. Now there's a custody battle where the brother that shot and lost it is making the thing that it's all his. Yeah. So we have a rule in our family that we have three children who I love very much. We have a rule that if a toy is not being played with at that time, um, it is not yours. So it is a community property. So I would say since he was not handling it at that time, the person who found it, it's theirs. I think that everybody keeps what they found exactly. Guy that the guy that like winged it, Yeah, dude, he lost it. It's like, you're not even in the conversation. Yeah, you've got no claim to that thing. At the fact that he thinks he gets at all, is it? I guarantee that's the older that's the older brother, right that you know, he doesn't get into who's oldest and who's youngest. That's an older brother kind of statement. That's mine. Yeah, I don't think the guy. I think everybody just keeps what keeps what The guy that found the antlers found the antlers or his. Now there's like, what should There's plenty of room in here for people to just be nice and whatever, But I'm not talking about that. I think there's like in like uh, like you know the meat eater court, I would say, legally, everybody just keeps what they have. If you guys want to be like all nice and cool and everything and give other people stuff or whatever, that's nothing to do with what should happen. That's just you being a nice guy about that. Cal Man, I got the story about dude who left a bunch of firewood on my deck. Oh this good story. You know I was there that day tell that story. Oh yeah, So I got this place and catch him and there was a guy renting it prior to me, and um, the real estate agents like, yeah, guy wants to know if he can leave his firewood on the deck for two weeks. And being as I knew that there's a lot of work to be done on the place and I didn't want this guy to be all spiteful. Um, I was like, yeah, no problem, two weeks, that's great, But let him know that I'm gonna be like tearing that deck apart because it was about to fall off anyway. Um, which I took me forever to get around too, about three and a half years to be exact. But but that was the deal of the two weeks well like a year later. No, that's it. That's an exaggeration. It takes. That was in June, the end of October, the very end of October. The guy shows up and he's like, yeah, I want to talk to you about my wood. And I was like, yeah, man, that ship sailed and I had already cut a bunch of firewood. And uh they moved the whole pile and moved the entire pile um at the request of the h o W, who was like, yeah, so sorry, the guy who was a renter. We kept asking and move this thing. You never did? Do you think you could, you know, start fresh and move the Yeah, and uh yeah, that's like the didn't you then try to get you to pay him for it. I remember you guys are having a little argument. I was standing out talking to someone in the driveway. Yeah, that was a real comfortable situation. So he's like, whoa, you need to pay me for that wood? Then as it great, you need to pay me for the eight loads of your crap I had to take to the dunk from the house. Eight truck and four wheeler, like a foot by six ft wide four wheeler trailer. Eight loads truck and trailer combo to the dump. I'm sure that was really friendly before I even like sleep in the place. Had you run any of his wood through your stove yet? No, it's it's it's odd how he showed up right by the time it gets cold, and of that would you? But yeah, so it's like when in my mind his claim to that would left left somewhere around the first load of stuff to the dumping, well beyond the two week marking. His dream of getting his wood back must have been a pretty fragile dream, because he never came back and pursued it anymore, did he. I think he just kind of gave it a hail Mary and yeah, yeah, no, it was not It wasn't It wasn't great. But in regards to hey, I remember those antlers, Thanks for spending day of out there looking for antlers and picking him up. I'll take those back now. That doesn't really stack up with me either. Maybe that guy didn't come back because he was intimidated by your mustache. How masculine you are. Um, I didn't get that sense from him. I think he just walks around the middle of day a little bit drunk, is the sense I got. Um, we're talking about. A guy wrote in about getting his nipple bit by a bluegill and bleeding all over, and I said, man, this guy doesn't know one fish from the other. And I thought he got bit by a northy, a northern that was hunting bluegills. This guy from Oregon said, man, he's telling me you don't know what you're talking about. He says he was swimming seven years ago. He was swimming in a small pond and Oregon, and the only fish in the pond was bluegills. Stock Pond says he got bit on the nipple by blue gel He said, I felt like getting bit by rottweiler. Drew a lot of blood. They do have a very small roll of teeth so that they can't eat human nipples. He says. It's the prawna of the north. It's a very sensitive tissue area. Yeah, did you see somebody's been releasing piranha, probably aquarium piranha that just got too big for him to handle. The second one found in the same lake and BC that somebody caught like full on. But they're not gonna win her up there, are they. That's what the biologists said. It is like listen they're gonna die of this winter, but that doesn't mean go releasing piranha into a lake. Yeah. Yeah, they're good to eat, man, really, dude, they're really good. Yeah, red prawn and black prana like a perch. No, it's like you know, it's like a lot of those fish down there. It has like you know, it's like a like a firm white ocean fish type flesh. I'm very good. And they got like and they split their head, you know, you split their head and cook them. Yeah. I ate him in one time in Argentina, then I ate him in Olivia and Guyana. Yeah, they take him in like you caught a flayoff. Then you tipped the fish on his nose and so you got like not a flame, but it's like a fish on the half shell, split all the way through his head. Because they got their real media had with big cheeks in it, and being as you were in these awesome situations, do you think that piranha would be just as tasty here in Bozeman, Montana? Oh yeah, you do for sure, man, very good. You know, they like the black prowna the most because they're big. You know, you get like three four or five pound black parana. Wow, yeah, Biggins, Um, did you talk about this lady that bit a camel on the testicles? Skip that one. It's an interesting story where there's like a woman from Florida, Florida woman and her and her old man stop at a wildlife like a truck stop while they've truck stopped in Louisiana, and somehow or another, like they throw a dog treat in there for the animals, but their dog season throw a dog treat. You went after it, and he runs in there and gets into a scuffle. So then they run in there. Even though there's a science thing, don't run in there. They run in there and get into a scuffle with a camel and she bites him on the sack. The cops get involved in this. They said, the camel's not at fault. I don't understand how that was the first available part to bite. She somehow got under it. It's sad on her. Uh, this is medical. This is this is sort of medical. Sure you'll see the connection. Guy asked, Let's say you go hunting and you're in a s w D area and you shoot a buck and you're like, I'm not gonna eat that buck. This it's still okay to get it mounted. So I don't know. He doesn't mean safety wise, like oh that he would get contract from having it in his house. That's not his concern. He never thought about it. But his kids said, if we can't like eat it, uh, and it's and it's like out of sickness, why would we get it stuffed? Because it doesn't seem like so the main tissue. So I thought about that. No, no, it's not a safety issue. Not a safety issue. He's not proposing it as a safety issue. Can he still put it on the wall and be proud of it? He never says I never connected taxidermy to consumption, but now a thirteen year old has me all twisted up about this. I don't think i'd mount the animal if I couldn't eat it. This is him talking European mount and I would absolutely you the European mount and I'd point at it when people came over and I'd be like, see that so, and I'd be like that dear head c w D. So the only problem with that, and not to bring it to the safety issue. But when I've done my own European mounts, it involves boiling the head and then I and then I use a power sprayer to basically spray the brains out if they've been all liquefied. And I've been on my sidewalking and arbor with people walking their dogs by uh and a skull on the sidewalk and uh. But you're spraying brain all over the place, right, So that's the number one tissue. It's a brain, spinal cord, lymph nodes, and bone or bone marrow. So if you're making a European mount on an animal that has known c w D, you're getting probably some of the highest exposure you could as far as particles flying around. And obviously there's no human cases that have been documented. But if that was if that was me, I would not want I would not be power spraying that thing in my house. I would probably just discard the animal. Unfortunately. You know, the power spraying is interesting because the body of mine over Whitehall, Montana just texted me the are D curious about that same thing because he he was gonna go hunt in the area. He's going to hunt an area where there's been some c w D cases and he was like, even besides the meat and everything, man like, what about when when I had my kid go out and clean the skull. Yeah, like he just saying, I don't know if I want anything to do with that stuff. Well, you have the animal tested. And then the scary thing is from the other podcast you because they have talked about the Dougdurn talked about where they will test animals. They say it's a non positive test, which to me, I really like things when they're certain kind of zero or one, and a non positive is kind of a soft way of saying, yeah, it's okay, we're not super sure. It doesn't look like it's positive now. Um, so that would make me real uncomfortable. Um, if you're hunting a high prevalence area, you know, even in dealing with that kind of meat, you know, if you're hunting in southeast Wisconsin, that would be spit. Give me an example of this is this, like, Um, you turn learning in a lymph node and they're like, yes, there are there are no c w D prions in this lymph node. Correct, But I wish we would have got a piece of the brain. And I'm not a biologist, I can't say for certain, but from what I remember hearing, they just give you a non positive result, meaning that they don't see anything now. Um. And because they say that the deer can be asymptomatic for up to two years, you can shoot a fork and yeah, two years later he's it's not positive and right. So um, the cases of pre on illness that we've seen in hospital, or the highest rate of transmission are to neurosurgeons because they're dealing with brain tissue. So if the neurosurgeons, um, if there's a you know, middle aged lady who comes in with this kind of Alzheimer's type weird acute decline and they're concerned about c W D or um not CWD but croc felt yakub disease, right, which is a pre on human transmiss It's like a human variation of these spongef form and cephalopathies. The the hospitalists, the people managing the care will want a biopsy of the brain to to send a pathology and see if there's prions in it or characteristics as such, and they are very reluctant to want to do that. It's a nightmare for them. They don't want to they don't want to do that. If they can do it a different way, so they'll do a um an e G, which is like uh an e k G for your brain to check if you have certain patterns. So it's a non invasive way of testing for that. But the point of story is that people who are operating on people's brains who might have these kinds of illnesses are are not not super psyched about doing it because they're sawing through bone. Dust is getting into the air, and so they are concerned about that. Yeah, get dressed up like you're working on e Bowler patients. I don't know. I I never sat in on a neurosurgery um myself. You get to select what kind of rotation you do. I did more trauma surgery stuff. But um, yeah, I think they have like positive pressure ventilation that they're using, so they're not breathing that air. Um, I would imagine, So that's what I would want. I've been looking for a good segue. I uh talk about my tooth is damn your head brain surgery there day because my tooth is like five inches from my brain. Yeah, I got a super sore tooth and they and I had cracked the root and they, dug are you've already heard about this? But because you want to bite something. Yeah, I went to bite something and about sent me through the roof. Anyway, They're going, I gotta cracked root. And so they pry the whole tooth out of my head and then they take pliers and pull all three the roots stems out. Then they pack it with cadaver bone. They showed me a little boy. Yeah, some dudes ground up bone. And I asked them, and everybody must ask this question. I asked him, like, what can you tell you about whose bone? It is? So like, we don't have information on him. I don't know if he had c w D. But then I had someone else tell me, you can find out. I don't know. I said, you can find out. Yeah, I had to go over to the house. His kid recognize something in my jaw. They pack it full of cold everbone powdered could ever bone, because somehow it affects how your what your body does with that area, whether or not a like fills it with bone, or whether or not it fills it with soft tissue. The space they want to grow backbone. But the thing is it's granular. So at any right now, in this moment, at any given time, I could work up from under my tongue or on my tongue or whatever, a little like a large piece of sand and spit it out and it's a hunk of that dude own, unbelievable. I had three of them this morning when I woke up. No, yeah, I've been showing everyone who wants to look a little showing me that guy's bone. You swallowed some of them. I haven't crunched some of them up, crunch them up with my front teeth. I just don't like the fact that this, I guess a. I really dislike the fact that this happened on a hunt. So you just started chewing on the other side of your mouth. That was even then. Man, it got worse and worse and worse and worse till I was no longer having fun. If it didn't happened at the beginning of that hunt, I'd have been screwed. But I mean it got to be like really painful. Wow, but man, that could ever So your body. Is it a reaction from your body, like being like this is foreign material and we gotta build something up to get rid of it. Or I can't say exactly why. M You're not the oral surgeon, not normal, not a dentist, but this guy wasn't. Well. This guy's a dentist and a oral surgeon, which they have to go to a lot of school to be an oral surgeon, so that's a lot. It's like dentistry school plus some medical school then a fellowship, so it's like eight years, I think. But they do very well, I think because they're pulling wisdoms. Like when I got then you got like a rolling tool chest, but it looks like you're fixing a car. Dude, I got my wisdom teeth out, man, I got my wisdom teeth pulled out, and it was whatever I don't know, like three thousand bucks or something like that. And I was asking me. I'm like I was, you know, college kid, and I didn't know anything, and I'm like, how many teeth have you pulled out? Just want to know. He's like tens of thousands, and I'm like, oh, tens of thousands times three for sure, man, those guys because he doesn't two or three at a time. And my grandpa, Doc Callahan, oral surgeon, retired. Yeah, I had all crazy history. He did his residency at d C. General. But this is a big dude. X. He played football at Carol Colle International Championship Team, bunch of broken fingers. Did you see that guy coming at you and you're like, those fingers are going in my mouth. It's not a pleasant scene as a kid. Very like, no, I used tools, very strong forms those guys have because they have to crank. You know, this dude was Muslim. Yanni talked about getting hissel teeth some wisdom teeth pulled out of him. Oh, I keep forgetting Yanni's not here. This is the first, No, this is maybe the second. Let me finish something up. Then want to talk about Yanni's apsend? We got start talking about We're spos about what's new, what's anything on the horizon? Oh yeah, so Phil Phill the engineer, pulled special cliffs to Yanni. Man I forgot about talking about how Yanni's not here. Do you know what? I missed a podcast once and Yanni did it. I don't remember that that. Yeah, long ago, I missed the podcast and Yanni handled it. I had a lot of critiques. Um, then this Yann's only missed like one before. He's not here, but this time, I'm uh, Phil hit hit another couple. Phil, It's just like we're gonna be able to just like install Yanni where we need him. Go ahead, yeah, ye see. Or I'll say, like, what's you take on that, Ynnie? Look at this science at work? Very what do you got? You got twenty four options? Phil? You just hit the matt will ye give us a couple more? Just a couple more options, okay? Or you just hit a playlist at random? Oh right, right right, that's great. So you're on top of that, right Phil. Yeah, yeah, I've I've got a pretty good one that I'm kind of saving. I'm hoping to whip out later. So just when you when Yanni needs to say a word, he just can butt in no sense, and just he can just butt in and say what he needs to say. Yeah, I've always wanted to say this. Yanni's on assignment. Oh nice, he's on assignment. He's filming. Um, he's filming his own uh special elk hunt in Colorado for which he like what he like, had like seventeen bonus points. It was I think it was like ten or eleven? No, no, no, no, no teens no, yes, I'll bet you any amount of money. What's he has got to say about that? Do you have a clip say in seventeen if you're so, please play it. No, I did not get that that specific. I'm sorry seventeen uh high teens. I'm telling you it's only like ten or make a bet? Yep? Okay, how much five bucks? Right now? Like a hundred? No friendships? You know about the bet? Yann has lost me for ten dollars and I used to do quarter beats, So let's do a quarter bet five bucks? Yeah, Yanni lost ten dollar bet? Was it? Ten Graham? Me and Yanni bet one time? Yeah? Something high? Yeah. I had to forgive him. Does he pay you an interest? No? I told him to forget about it, and it was my friendship with Yanni's worth more than uh ten Graham. This is the last medical piece of listener feedback. You got it. He's blaming me on it. This guy's blaming me for his for someone winding up in a hospital. He went to make our hot butter buck nuts. Yeah, if you cook testicles too fast, they burst. You gotta cook them slow and too hot. Too hot, too fast, they'll burst, but they always a kind of burst. They'll burst. You ever cook a spawn sack out of a perch or bluegill? No, same shape as a nut, and they'll also open up. Yeah, a little membrane splits. Yeah, and like a row sack on a row chad will sort of open up and opens up in the exact same way, like kind of splitsing some stuff. Anyways, they're cooking hot buttered buck nuts, and um, his wife's working on him. She's cooking them, and one blows up so violently did it scalds her eyeballs with hot butter? She has to go to the er. He included a photo of the buck and his wife laying on a hospital bed. Oh no, I'm sure she was not happy about either of those things. The photo. He's like, you're gonna have to do a better job explaining how to cook those things and slow. Yeah, all right, we'll get you cooking with that chainsaw a mask that everybody wears the advisor, Yeah, exactly one of those. Do you think about that? I'm with you, Good job, Phil, This one's very specific. Do you want to ask you, Hey, Janice, how did you like reading The Cat in the Hat to your kids? The other night? Sentences? I had to read twice or three times to really make sure I you know ingested it properly. Knew what was going on there. That is very That's what happens when Yanni reads cat and hat. Yeah, it takes them a while. That was mean. It's it's possible to be really mean, to be honest right now? Oh no, we do anything? Okay, sounds good. Oh, Brody's here you've been talking about you haven't introduced self, Brodie Henderson, senior editor here at Meat Either got a big old bull with his most loader. Not big, but you know, yeah, they're big. There's large compared to they're big when you're dealing with him by yourself. Man, that's some work. Okay. Dr Lazara, Yes, sir, Italian and Sicilian. I notice you mentioned it's true you don't bundle him together. Well, I mean, you know specifically because I think you are Sicilian, right, yea one fourth Sicilian. But it feels like more than that because I got the name, and my father was raised by his grandparents who were Sicilian immigrants, so you know, it's a specific flavor of Italiano. You know, like people say, Southern Italian is different than Northern Italian. Northern Italians were traditionally more wealthy. Southern Italians were tended to be looked down upon by the northern Italians more romantic himself. I can't, I don't, I can't. I had. I've been to Italy and the food is great all over. So you know, one of our camera guys, Ridge Pounder, was in Sicily. I've been there. Guess what he bought in Sicily? Uh, crucifix. He bought a pair of birken stock. It's like, hey, is like, I bought these birds in Sicily? Like that, no one goes. Maybe his shoes exploded or something needed some impromptu footwear. Okay, let me paint a scenario for you. Well, what's most valuable I heard of you recently? I want to talk about guys falling out of tree stands, yes, sir, And what's that? What's that's all about? And I want to talk about gunshot wounds. And I want to talk about the most common general maladies, not infectious diseases. We already covered that with another feller. We covered that with epidemiologists. That is, more maladies that afflict outdoors men and outdoors women. Correct, We can talk about whatever term about that. There's just no perfect term. Hunters in general. What is she's hunting mushrooms? People outside out of door people, people who are using in an exploring nature. I mean, so where do we start? He was saying, you recently had a guy uh come into your er area. They had fallen out of the tree and had opened up his scroll. That was a case that happened. Not too recent, but it was. I think it was about a year ago. He um was was injured, wasn't wearing I think he was wearing his harness, but he didn't he wasn't clipped into a uh safety line going up and he had um the foothooks that we're in and had had slipped out and had just caught him right on back up. He had what no uh you know those screw in footooks that you you see him at like myers were kids. Yeah, that was the brand we use was Dear Knees. I don't know what the brand was, dear me. Was it Dear or Dear knee It's like a six chook, like an L shape or J shape, and they're they're pretty burly iron or steel, and you screw him in. Seems very unsafe to me in general, but not note but I've never used them. But oh, you got one of those things in man that especially once that tree grows around him there there for you gotta wrassle them. You had to bring a mallet to get him back out of the tree. Yeah, I like my climber. I feel more safe in the finished Sorry, so he climbs up to so he had his hard So this is something that we see a lot of people wear their harness. There's a couple of iterations people either a don't wear a harness or be they wear a harness but they don't clip in on the way up or down. Which we know that most of these falls are occurring ascending or descending traditionally, and that's true. So the data is is hard. We can speak a little bit about the data around tree stand injuries, which it's an important topic because it's the number one malady that affects hunters as far as serious trauma in the Midwest and South um out here not so much because you guys aren't doing a lot of tree stand on it. There's the number one major thing to befall a hunter in the East and South correct correct as far as trauma, not gunshot wounds. And because this guy did not clip in, what was the malady that he suffered. So he when he fell, he fell on the tree hook, lacerated part of his scrotum and then he hit the ground. Like you're saying, the tree hook was so strong, yes, and had such a purchase on the tree. Yes, yeah, that it was able to disembowl his scroll. Yeah. Well it didn't pull his testicles out, but it did it did cut part of his scrotum. Yeah. Now, when Alan told us this, Brody turned to me and said, left couple of acorns up that tree. So he eventually did well were the doctor Sam was able to They sewed him up no problem and uh, you know the wound healing and whatnot. But he got really lucky. You know, he landed on his feet, didn't break his back or his legs. But you know, we saw we will see people middle aged, very functional, um you know, uh, members of society, and they will fall and then all of a sudden they are quadriplegic and they're on hospice. You know, it's a heartbreaking situation. You know how many people in your area and you said you have high hunter densities in your area, correct, Yeah, we have about so I've been talking with the Michigan DNR getting some numbers, and we have about hundred and fifty thousand people in Jackson County and we have roughly ten to thirteen thousand individual hunting licenses, which is about ten percent, which is above the national average of hunters. Because we're talking the highest percentage is eight percent seven per hunter participation, and so we have a pretty high hunter density in our in our county. UM and UM, you know, we see everything from lacerations to people accidentally getting their ear drum blown open because there you know, not using gun safety, not using high Yeah, I saw a guy who came in. UM, they were messing around with a pistol and his so it wasn't specifically a hunting injury, but it was a firearms injury and his buddy just let it loose right when we're standing right next to him, and it blew open. His ear drum, just totally perforated, super painful. What happens then, So my understanding is if it's wide open, obviously no swimming or any thing, cause you get water in there and your inner ears and expose and you don't want an infection to develop. It'll heal or not, He'll depends how large the um it's like a drum head. So depending on how large the injury is, it can seal over and then you kind of have a chronic weak spot, or they can put a patch over it and create a new ear drum for you. So you see ear, nose and throat doc and they tell you that kind of stuff. So touching off a pistol next to his buddy's head ruptures his ear drum. Yeah, yeah, it was pretty impressive, completely ruptured, and it was using a ton of pain. I mean using like a twenty five b H and the head, ear, eyes, nose and throat, h E and T. Stuff very painful because there's a lot of nerve endings in your face, your ears, your nose, like your tooth. I mean, we see a lot of people who have bad teeth from you know, not brushing, drinking too much mountain dew and smoking, and they come in and excruciating pain. It's it's really I had my heart goes out to him. Unfortunately, I was with a body mind yesterday and we're talking about floss in your teeth. Yeah, and uh, he said, last time he's into dentist. They asked him when the last time he floss his teeth was and he said to the dentist, don't know when was I in here last? They came out it's a good point. So they came out with something. So they've been pushing the flossing thing for a long time, and they came out with some sort of some study that said there's no definitive evidence that flossing prevents um, you know, decay or tooth loss whatever. It can't be true. Well, I think, told me, so, yeah, go ahead, no you tell me. So I'm saying what your dentist said. I'm from with interrupting, so it go ahead, go ahead. So even though even though there's a research tell you that came out and said that you don't need a research to wear a parachute jumping out of a plane. You don't need research studies, so you can bend research to tell it what you want to tell you. So it's like the doctors at the tobacco companies for sure. For sure. So you you just use common sense, like is this good? It's like thirty your tooth surfaces in between your teeth, so why not clean it? You know? So right, yeah, Well the guy explained to me when I was asking him what's up with floss? And because I was saying, well, I'm not religious about it. I floss a fair bit, flost four or five times a week. He was selling me my dentist who's the hunter, and my rollal surgeons a hunter my dentist, but am I rollal surgeon? Both like hunt, so you have a lot of trust. And uh, my knee doctor likes the hunt. There you go. I don't need him. So I only went once and he said, my knees fines. I don't know if he counts with my knee doctor. Talk about that later too. But what was it getting at? Oh, why flossing? He said that there are communities of bacteria that set up shop on your teeth, and they're always trying to set up shop on your teeth. When you flost, you interrupt the setting up of shop. And the longer they get, and this is just in a matter of days, the more tenacious, the more tenaciously they can bind to the tooth. So you're saying, by flossing every day, it's a convenient spacing of time to interrupt them from setting up shop in a way that makes them harder to get off. So it's not like you can catch up. Like it's like, if you don't floss Monday, well I just floss on Thursday. By then they've adhered themselves in the way that just mere floss is gonna have a hard time dislodging. But by keeping on that daily schedule, you're keeping them off before they can harden. Yeah, they I mean I always ask why whenever I go to get your teeth clean. I'm always like, why do you have to use the same medieval type instruments to scrape my mouth like they used, you know, eighty years ago. But they're saying they're getting off that hardened plaque at the gum line, and like, no matter how much you brush, and it just happens with our diet, and you know, um, I think it's a good litmus test. I always ask people who are in the dental field how often they flost, and then I can kind of gauge how often I should probably flost. So they give it two to three times a week, then I feel like that's probably pretty good. They're not giving you that. No, Yeah, they'll say that, the honest ones will. They don't. Some of them are fanatic and they've lost twice a day. But you think, yeah, I got you. I'll do every two three days. What just to wrap up the tooth conversation, you gave us a great hot tip on tooth that if you had this happen. My brother shot my tooth out with a blowgun when I was ten. A blowgun? What a rock? No, we would take aluminum arrows. Okay, we'd cut the ends off them. And remember what a light bright Yeah, okay, light bright peg. Well that's not well, it's more complicated. So there's a light bright peg, and a light bright peg fit an illuminum arrow wonderfully. And it was a very effective, accurate projectile to shoot an illuminum arrow. Oh okay, But just so happened that a buddy bars down on west Lake named Davy Cole. His old man worked in a ball bearing factory, and he had access to all diameters of ball bearings, and so my brother came into some ball bearings that fit that aluminum arrow perfectly. And we do a thing called a machine gun where you would fill your mouth full of those ball bearings and then to start blowing and using your tongue to feed the bearings into the aluminum tube. Sounds like a tom and Jerry episode. Oh and you could get up and just rip someone like you could rip someone from crosh the eyeball with a stream of ball bearings on a good breath and he bob. We would wear goggles, but no one thought to wear mouth protection. But he shot the tooth clean off, snapped in half, and that exposed nerve. I was saying, how I was saying that this exposed nerve, even breathing would hurt. And you had a hot tip for this is for people out in the field. This is like what we're here to talk about. A broken tooth and that exposed nerve. You can do what to help make it feel better? So, um, so I've read and done. We'll see people for various kinds of oral trauma. They'll come in with a tooth half cracked off, and you know they really need a dentist or oral surgeon, right, but they come in at three am. They're not they don't have access to that. They gotta wait till tomorrow or the next day or whatever. So to help mitigate some of that pain, um, you can put cianocrylate, which is super glue basically over that nerve, so you get the area really dry and then put the super blow and then then blow on it so it drives real quick. It's seals the nerve over and um. You know you're messing with a native tooth. But when what the dentist is gonna do is grind it down to a post, probably try and save the nerve and then put a cap on it. So whatever you put on that remaining tooth is gonna get ground off anyway. You know, they have other materials you can use, like copack and and other things in a dental box. We keep in the e d um but that works pretty effective. You probably need antibiotics too, because you gotta expose nerve, can get infected. Could you get infected? Yes? Nothing. Super glue is gonna look better because it's clear. Yeah, we use super bowl all the time. And stuff we use in the medical field is you know for you know, we use it for skin lacerations on the face and stuff and and for face I use it all time my fingers and stuff we use in the hospitals about they say five times stronger than the stuff you buy at the store. But I use the stuff I buy the store all the time for a little cuts on my fingers because I'm like walking around with cuts. Yeah, I carry super glue in my kit my little hunting kit bag. Those single serving tubes, Yeah, that's a good because they always get clogged up, you know, I mean, and then all of a sudden you're dealing with a like a clog tip and some goo in there that you can't really get to. So what's the proper way if you get a cut? How do you tell us a couple of questions. Is there more to say about falling out of trees before we talk about this next thing? I would say, you know, since this is around the time where you have a lot of people hunting um in the mid you know, using tree stands, I would I would appeal to everybody to know that the number one injury would be falling out of a stand, not a firearm injury. You know, gun safety is extremely important. You know, we see those tragic injuries, um, But the thing that you're more likely to encounter somebody falling out of a stand. So review a DVD, YouTube video something where your harness. You know, you want to live to hunt another day. You don't want to be paralyzed with a broken pelvis, laying in the forest it's it's really important that people do that. I think, yeah, I have a bad habit of getting in the tree and then putting the harness on. I have settled. I have seen I saw a guy who came in. He came in for like a colitis or a bowl infection, and I was talking to him and I said, you got some nasty looking scars in your bellies, like sixty five. Yeah. I'm like, well, what's that from? Just kind of shooting the ship with him, and because well, I fell out of a tree stand, I'm like how. Then, of course my interest piques up and I'm started asking lots of questions of how that happened. He goes, well, I got to the top of the tree stand and put my harness on and I slipped out putting it on like while he's in the top up and he was also on a blood thinner, and it was he you know, fractured his spleen. It was amazing he lived. And then the real bomb and he goes, it was actually the second time that happened to me. I'm like, dude, you're like lucky to be alive falling out twice. It's you know, and you said, us ending and descending acending. So the and like I said, the research is hard because not all of them are reported. Not every state tracks and Michigan doesn't track them. Illinois will track them. Um, so anybody involved in like a police officer or conservation police officer, it's a mandatory reporting in Illinois, but Michigan it's not. They just do firearms, so getting the mandatory reporting. So if somebody is injured in the field with a firearm hunting you, that's a mandatory report to the d NR. So they there's a stream of information that gets passed from police officer through a specific network kind of like a pager system. Was explained to me to the CPO, who to them go investigate if needed at the hospital or at home and figure out what and they keep itally of these every and they release a report. It's pretty morbid to read it, but it's interesting from a medical perspective to look at it and see, you know, a lot of these firearm injuries are occurring for you know, it's it's not it's usually careless handling of a firearm, not um failure to identified target. It's usually you know, carrying your gun, you know, the wrong way up a tree stand, linking your you know, haul of court to the freaking trigger guard, handing weapons to each other, falling over something, you know, the stuff you learn in hunters that you know, don't go over a fence with a loaded gun. You drop your gun and it goes off. You don't rely on the safety, etcetera. That kind of stuff. You know, you do see people swinging on you know, I read one from Michigan. Somebody swings on a squirrel and the twenty two hits you know, a young person in the head and they die and it's just tragic, tragic. So that was it was like a sixty three year old killed like a thirteen year old. It was just squirrels. Yeah, just that kind of stuff really gets to maybe, I think the further on I get in medicine, you get a little you can get a little numb to um pain in some ways because you have to function in an environment where you're functioning with somebody else's in pain and you're you're you're trying to help them. So if you're emoting with them and feeling what they're feeling, then you can't get your job done. You can't help that person. The things that I think really bother me is when I can relate and whether it's you know, it's a thirty six year ol guy who's always got a new diagnosis of cancer, or it's a little kid that looks like my kid that's injured. That ship's really hard to emotionally process. And so reading these stories because I'm a hunter, and because I feel so bad, it's hard to even just read the one liner about what happens. You know, it's thinking about jeez man. But I should say I sent a power point to Brodie that, UM, we use some of these statistics. There's a national Injury database that's collected. There's a hundred e rs and this it's a government run database through the Consumer Protection CPSC. I can't remember the acronym, but it's a hundred yers that are surveillanced in a input anything um that has related to a consumer products. So if you're injured, but you wanna know how many people are injured by vacuum cleaners, you can search vacuum cleaners. You can search hunting knives and lacerations, the hand, finger, arm, whatever um. They estimate there's about six to four thousand tree stand related injuries per year in the United States, and it really has not I looked at the numbers and it really has not declined with more education. It's pretty much stayed the same. Because our hunting numbers are going down a little bit, you know, the big game numbers. If you compare them, we're still having the same rough rate of tree STANM related injuries across the country. Um interestingly though, because there's so much more focused on it. There there is. But it's just like we're it's just like, you know, seatbelts with cars, right, so we're talking about earlier education is a hard thing to um change habit when it comes to our patient population and people in general. So you can talk yourself to your boo in the face, but until you engineer solution into the equation, you're still going to get those people like you know, like maybe my grandfather doesn't wear a seat belt as often as I would, but you put that annoying beep in your car, in the brand new car, you're gonna wear your seat belt because you don't want to listen to the beep. For Somebody told me you can take the fuse out of that situation. Yeah, that's sounds hard. To do. Man, they do sell You can go online and buy um, you can go online and buy just like a buckle with a orange piece on it, yeah, and then keep it clicking there so it just thinks you're buckled up. No kidding. Those people don't have any lie. I can't believe there's not a lawsuit gets that cup on the toyota. Uh there's the sensors underneath the seat, and you just disconnect that sensor. U I saw once on YouTube. Don't listen to kel so Okay, yeah, do not listen to me. I'm a terrible example. But just like as you are saying this, I'm realizing, like when you're like, yeah, the sixty year old guy who fell out of the tree stand twice, Yeah, I just go, oh yeah, I get it. But if it's the sixteen year old kid who falls out of the tree, stown like idiot, Yeah right, you know, absolutely, I don't because it's true he is an idiot. Right, You're like sixteen, you haven't seen a lot of stuff. But the sixty year old guy, like he's making informed decisions. Oh, I got you right. And I just feel like if there was an emphasis on safety in my growing up, which looking back there there was a lot of like, yeah, you shouldn't do that, and that was about it that you learned your lesson there. Yeah, I feel like that is just such a better way to start out because now like nothing and somebody's like, oh, well, you know, you shouldn't do it that way. I'm always like, you should have seen me ten years ago, man, right, But I think they're just like the tree stand thing. Like I feel like a lot of people have changed their ways. Man. Like we used to build tree stands out of chunks of two by fours and just like no ladder, no rot, like just lean up there. My dad would make him, uh, he would steal street signs for a platform, like what like a stop signer, like you take that? He liked that metal. Yeah. Um. They used to have had these like thick signs. It was like a lamb and it was like a thick plywood with a face on for a solid metal. And we had some tree stands. You can still see like the parts of speed limit numbers and stuff. But I wouldn't get up in one of those things I made when I was a kid. Yeah, use you know, I use harness. I think the reason that the reason that I started getting into it. I think so before I started, I'm kind of an adult onset hunter. I used to wrestle in high school, college and and so wrestling season is pretty much all of deer season. Do you still have that wrestling problem where you're always trying to wrestle guys? We're not familiar enough yet, So I haven't done it to you. But here I would have advised him about my blast. Pick a good one, Phil. That's right. It's a it's a thing. It's a unique subculture, you know. And I think because you know it's it's underappreciated and how difficult it is. It doesn't get any popularity, like you know, football gets so much play, and and you wrestled at a high in school. Oh no, the University of Chicago is a Division three. It was you know, it was more high end academically. Oh yeah, which would mean to be easy to beat everybody. Well, I have to hope, I so I didn't. I kind of like it. Really. It's emotionally draining with you know, cutting weight and training all the time, and your focus gets to be on other things when you're in college, um that don't involve you know, athletics, you know. And then and then at a certain point, I'm like, I'm not going to be a professional wrestler. I'm gonna study to get into medical school and wrestling scholarship. No, no, they don't, they don't, d three, they don't have scholarship. They give you like a workman, they like give you money to work in the cafeteria or something like that. And um, I could have gone to smaller school and maybe gotten a scholarship. But you got that little Rodney Dangerfield swimsuit on one out there, and yeah, it's you know, it's comforting. I love it. It's I still I still will do UM club wrestling at UMM with the college kids there and go and I get to pull the old man break because I'm winded. Um. And I'm gonna try and get my kids into it and we'll we'll see if they like it or maybe they'll be in defencing. I don't know what they'll like. You want to raise up wrestlers. It's so much it's so much fun, dude. It's a physicality and like a fitness that doesn't ever go away, a work ethic that you just cannot It's different than football. It's different because you know you're the only one out there, You're the only one staying. There's no one else to blame when you lose. It's a manoe mono. It's not as traumatic as boxing. Right. I don't want my kids to box because of the chronic traumatic and cephalopathy. I don't my kids to play football because it's like the number one injured sport, although I love playing football when I grew up. So, but who knows what they'll be in. My wife's a very good influence in saying you should let them try and choose what they enjoy. I don't recommend that either. Let I want to get back to this, Okay, let's I want to talk about cuts in the field. Cuts in the field, right, we'll start minor. Okay, when is it okay? And when is the appropriate to try to superglue a cut back together? Again? So when is it okay? This is a two parter. When is it okay to to do a rambo and stitch yourself up? So it all has to do with I think the size of the cut um and what is your When are you going to be able to get to definitive care? So we ideally like to have wounds healed by primary intention, meaning that we'll stitch them back together, bring the skin back together so the skin can heal itself. The stitches don't actually heal the skin, they just bring it next to itself so it can heal. So um, we ideally try and do that within eight to twelve hours. Anything beyond that we worry about enough bacteria from the environment getting in there, and then we close it up and then we seal in some infection. Exception to that would be facial injuries because face, you know, it's generally not tolerable to have somebody have a giant scars in their face for cosmetic reasons. So if you're in the field and you have like a you know, a one inch cut on your finger that's closely approximate, it's not a lot of gapping or gaping. Um, then you can stretch that thing out, put some super bluel on it, like kind of like pull it, pull the skin on either end, or pinch it together and the inside with super glue. No, sir, Yeah, so you want you want the skin. So skin has different layers. You have like the top or superficial epidermist, then you have the dermist and then you have the extracellular matrix. Underneath. The extracellular matrix is where these fibroblasts that are basically like connectors will come together and heal your tissue. You don't want that all gummed up with glue or you're just gonna have you know, you want the skin to be touching, and then you put the glue on top like a seal on top, and provide that touching skin so it can heal itself. Bottom line, most of the time, we're just helping our body out. The body is an amazing thing. It's it's doing, it's doing and in healing itself more than we're really helping most of the time. You know, when I, uh, I'm just talking about minor cuts, like everything leading up to uh, everything leading up to like, man, I should probably get a stitch, but yeah, we're not gonna go get a stitch that type of cut. I tell me if if this is correct, because this is what like I carry in my medikit only what's good up to that only really what's going up to that point, alcohol swab okay, then Neil Sporn triple antibiotic ointment, then band aid. Then oh that that stretchy tape you can wrap around and protect the hold the band aid on, so you could use um. So there's a couple of parts of wound care. So the primary part is um. You sure it stays clean and dry. And when somebody has a laceration um or cut, you can we we always irrigate them with water. And so a lot of people will use iodine and normal saline and other stuff. But really you can just use tap water as long as you can drink it. You can irrigate it when with it. There's been plenty tap water when plenty of studies that show it's not inferior to the saline and the iodine. And what about creek water if you could drink it, I mean, if you purified it and you could drink it, that'll be fine. You know, creek water and I don't know, I know the differences one dirtier, Yeah, creek is dirty in the creek, yeah, Patrick McManus um he described the difference being in a creek. Somewhere in there. You can find a tire in the absence of a tire, it's a creek you worried more about. Yeah, tires are fine, you know, feces from animals and other bacteria is what we worry about. But what you can do is you can take like a zip block bag or any kind of bag at full water, poke a hole in the bottom it with like a needle, and then spray your wound and you have your little own irrigation. That's a good way to clean it. Spray it with water. That's what that's what we do every time. And so before no, no, no, no, just just room temperature water is fine. And so a lot of times previous and so the thing about medicine is that everything things are always moving and shifting and changing. And right, because now we're more evidence, base will do a study and then see what happens, and and we'll build on the people before us um So previously it used to be we think that it's the pressure of the water knocking the bacteria off the wound. And now it's more that we think it's like the volume of water. But to me, it doesn't really matter. Just use enough water. They say fifty mls per centimeter of cut. Just use a whole bunch of water irrigated out. See if you can bring the edges together, you can you could use in a pinch, you could use duct tape to try and get it close together. You could use starry strips or um wound closure strips. Um. In the Wilderness Medicine fellowship that I did, they talked about in a real hardup situation, you could use like boiled thread if you had to. In a sewing needle, you could use nylon. A lot of the suitors we use are basically nylon, and we do use silk too, so if you had silk thread you could use that as well. You could use that. But it's really thick, you know, Like so suiture is graded based off size, Like six oh is what I would use for your face. It's very fine. It's like you know, very hair, you know, super thin, breaks real easy, and then uh, like one oh or three oh is something you use for somebody's thigh. Dental floss is like double oh, so it's like it's like shot, you know, kind of like six oh is real at the top and then oh oh does down here and that's super thick. So dental floss would probably be real, real uncomfortable and quick interjection. Do you ever do you ever get that dad who kind of like grabs you and you like, you know, doc like a little bit of a scar up there is fine. I have not uh not really yeah, we don't really see you do get You get varied um, varied amounts of concern about scars, you know, and UM typically people that are I mean, what you'd expect like a teenage girl, you want to make sure that her face is you know, not scarred up. But you know, uh, twenty three year old boy, your man, I guess boy, you don't really you believe in UM you're telling me that, uh you're like you factor in age and gender when deciding whether they want a scar or not. Uh. So expectation I think is important to address. And so there is a large customer service aspect to medicine nowadays. UM, and it is it is for I think in buy and large. I think it's for the better because I think if we treat people the way we would want to be treated, whether you know you're talking about a golden rule, you're talking about a service industry, you're talking about UM, doing how you'd want your family member treated, then it's for the better. And I think both providers and patients are are better off and feel better about their job. But it can go over the line, right. So you got somebody coming in who is pissed because their kids got a running nose and a cough. And I just talked to somebody who I just diagnosed with cancer, and this other person's piss because they're waited an hour, and so how do you address that. You have to treat them, But they don't under they don't understand. They don't know because their experiences in a vacuum correct. And I think that that is a big societal problem. I think that's so lack of social awareness is a big societal problem that we have. And what's interesting about the emergency department is that you see all walks of life. You could walk down the hall and see a CEO of a company who's getting a d U I and crash his car, and an eight three old grandma who has five family members at the side of their bed versus uh, you know, sixty year old guy with dementia that has nobody in his bed, nobody, nobody cares about him. And then a little girl cut her face because her brother threw a book add her. You know, I mean, it's just the equalizer for everybody. Healthcare and particularly e d you know. Uh, I wasn't dogging on you about it, because, yeah, my my four year old he's got a couple pretty good nicks in his forehead now from stitches, and I don't care. But I wouldn't want my daughter to be all scarred up. I feel some you know, I don't know why. I mean, there's a there's a premium placed on beauty, like it or not. I think you know, but I think you know. I'm sure you feel the same way. All my children are beautiful, So no, i'd prefer my little boy to be all scarred up. It does, I guess, I don't know. I want me too tore up. My girl had a big old scar across her face, I think. So, you know, as long as there's no permanent damage otherwise it's fine. It doesn't matter. Okay, what about stitching yourself up? I just meant I thought you couldn't do it because I was One time we were hunting out easter here and my buddy's dog got a gash up on a barber fence. My buddy's wife, it was a doctor, okay, it was Thanksgiving Day. She stitched the dog up. I thought she had a good and clean stitch the dog up. She gives stitches all the time, which is in my brother's g I just ditching it up. Yeah, and then ended up needing to open it back up. Yeah, because of an infection. That's unfortunate. Yeah, yeah, and she was worried about that happening do the nature of the injury. Yeah, but I thought that, Um, when I watched Rambo, we all went out and bought Rambo knives. They had a needle and in fishing in the handle, right handle. I had that. That was the coolest thing. A non functioning compass, a compass on the bottom on the butt. Yeah. You used to be able to go to the Moskegan flea market and buy Rambo knives for four nine and nine weastic sheath, really bad little owner. That was the stone in the handle. My grandfather, who was the first person to teach me how to shoot, at twenty two a like a milk jug floating in a lake on his farm in Indiana. That's that was his preferred target, milk jug floating in a lake. Were there's home video of my brother and he must be my brother must be ice kids, you know, he must be four years old and we're doing this, but they're over our shoulder, like holding it, you know. But we used to go to the flea market in southern Indiana and that was the main It was either baseball cards or knives, that's what we wanted. Oh yeah, and you could buy illegal fireworks at the flea market too, and they rambon. They had a lot of stuff down there. There was a couple of times in high school. No, this is horrible. I just want to say it's horrible. There's a couple of times in high school we would on lunch break go down to the Moskegon River and have someone run upstream and huck bottles out of the river so that you could shoot Tony two's Adam as they floated past the boat launch. No kidding, just stupid shooting it. Shooting at a moving object with somebody nearby, at a flat surface, you're breaking making some glass, breaking some hunter safety rules for sure, and then like run back to hopefully not be tardy. That's the stuff. That's the stuff of youth, though, I mean, that's what that's not even youth. That's just that's just like old enough to know better. That's that's the thing that I don't know how we were dumb. I don't know how. So I tell my kids, my wife and I both they love our possible story. And I think I you live a paranoid life in some ways when you're in the healthcare profession because you're around sony sick people. You see so much and you see somebody you just think everybody's injured all the time. Dude. I mean it's really it's makes you kind of paranoid. And so you might see a bookshelf that's on a wall, I see something that could tip over and crush the two year old head because I've seen that before, you know, And and so you're just kind of have this thing that you're beating down. You want to be super O c D paranoid. But to teach your kids about the stuff, like a good parent would like, don't do this. And I think the way and you guys touch on this a lot. I think you talk about how you you mentor your children and bring them whether you think you've taken his kids fishing, sorry fishing and stuff, and talking about how you know boater safety and whatnot. And I think that showing people how it's supposed to be done and and being a mentor is a very powerful thing. So um, anyway, we probably won't be shooting milk jugs and lakes when I'm my and my kids. Don shooting glass bottles at the boat launch and bring your neck drifted by on lunch ower, So get back to school. So I thought so that because Rambo did it, I thought I was all right to sit yourself up. And then I thought that, Then I thought that you can't under any circumstances stit yourself up. But then just happened to be with two guys. These are these are some cool guys. Uh rerewhelming and we packed in a horseback. These dudes Crooked Sky Outfitters. We've been talking a bunch about. Both his dad and his kid have stitched themselves up. They stitched themselves up without any um anesthetic anesthetic, and then someone, uh I think maybe gave him some kind of anesthetic that they could use next time they need to stitch themselves up. And I said, well, I thought you can't do that, and he showed me. He's like, I'm fine, Yeah, stitched himself up. So what's the verdict? Cool? Not cool? I mean, if I had I have the number of times I've so I could stitch myself up. You could sit yourself up and had the appropriate material. I think it's all about the tools. Like it's like carpentery. If you got the right tools, you can do it. Most people can stit yourself up, um, if you have the right tools. But you know, winging it with some threat in the sewing, you know, would be pretty not a good way to do it. It is you know, yeah, the skin, the cotton in there is probably gonna cause irritation. I think the best thing would be, you know, scary strips or some sort of like you know, the thing that you could try and bring the edges together or you know, superglue. But you don't recommend people to start stitching themselves up. No, I'm not trying to drum up any business. But we're happy to see you in the department to sew you up anytime. Were those guys stitching themselves up because they like needed to like or were they just avoiding the hassle up going to a doct avoiding the hassle because they were back in the mountains guiding and didn't want And it's a long horse ride and a very long vehicle ride and they have clients with them, and it wasn't tenable to like be like, hey, I'll be back in two days and ride all those miles and drive all you know what I mean. So they would just rather doing that themselves up. And they're both firm believers in it. No no vocane or whatever you call it. Yeah, no light of cane. Yeah, it's I mean, it stings, for sure. It doesn't feel good. I've had stitches and I think the anaesthetic wasn't really working very well. And it hurts when you get the needle through your skin, but certainly not the worst pain. Yanni. Are you ready to move on to tourniquets? Right? Yeah, it's very enthusiastic. He really job Phil. He's only got twenty five to choose from. He's picking some great sound ups. Uh so yeah, yeah, yeh, he's ready to move on to tourniquets. Okay, uh, me and Calier, let's say, me and Calier hunt Okay, I am I shoot him in the on accident, on accident, shoot him right in the calf, okay, bleeding all over the place, Okay, a lot of pooling blood. And the bullet doesn't just bounce off because you've seen my calves. Yeah, it's like a very high high power load, okay. Um. And and it's able to penetrate Cal's calf, not like a most loader which it just bounce off, but it penetrates Cal's calf, knocks the hunk of bone out of it. Who bleeding all over all? Right? Uh? And let's just say we're in the universe where, for whatever reason, professional medical care is hours away, and we're looking at the amount of blood coming out and we're like, man, I don't know if a fella can sustain that level of blood loss. Sure what happens? So they're in action or action, right, So in action so you can stand there and watch, which unfortunately you know as a bystander that glass up on top of be like, I guess you'll be Okay, we'll just put some so we see, you know, when it comes to like bystander participation in somebody who's who was injured, you can see a varied amount of uh success. Somebody can stand air, or somebody can call nine and one, or or you can get a T shirt and just put it on there and basically mop up the blood. But what we should really do and what we're teaching trying to teach our lay public to do now is um use the resources they have around them, uh, and get educated, just like we did for CPR, you know. And so there's a UM a group out there called Stop the Bleed and they allow people to become instructors and they teach people how to use tourniquates. And so a situation like that where you have a lot of pooling blood and like a defined pooling blood for me, so human beings have about five leaders of blood in their body, um, and so if you have like just they're laying in a circle of blood, you know, like somebody poured out a pool of blood like a half gallon of half gallon of milks build out on the ground. That's a lot of blood. And that is reasonable that maybe you should describe the injury. But there was a reasonable that I could hit cat like that and get a pool for sure. I mean, so there's arteries, so there's not to be too simplistic, but in our cardiovascular system there's arteries and there's veins. The arteries under higher pressure than the veins. The arteries bring oxygen ned blood to our tissues, and veins bring it back um the arteries under high pressure. If you lace rate or injure an artery, that blood will pump out in will spray from me a brody across the room. Um and it's hard to hard to miss that, you know. So if you have an extremity injury that's pumping blood, or even a bad vein that's bleeding a lot um or a set of veins, you could need to use a tourniquet. And so the first thing that they teach in this course and what we teach is direct pressure. Um So, you start putting pressure either their palm in your hand, two fingers and some gauze or a T shirt, or you can kneel on it to get hands free to grab yep, yep, you can kneel on it so your hands free. It's a hot pro tip from paramedics there superstars out in the in the field, and so they do that a lot when somebody has injuries or they need to stabilize somebody's neck when they're doing stuff. Um So, after direct pressure, if it's not controlling the bleeding, we still see you know, blood self close pooling of blood. Then it's time to put a tourniquet. On and so what about like what Rambo does where he uh cauterized it cauterized with a flair. Yet it's uh not advised. We we we talked about um, we've talked about that a little bit. And and UM, you know, cinema has a lot of interesting interpretations of what medical injuries look like. And I think, I mean, we all know how devastating a single shot can be on a mammal like a deer. I can't speak to like with an elk er, but like you know a deer that it's just the amount of trauma that you get from a single round is incredible. But you see these movies and people like run run through bullets like it's no big deal. They get shot. They're always getting shot, like in the upper shoulder or over the clavical and there's not a lot of bleeding. But underneath your clavical are these big artises called the subclavian arties that you would die like immediately if you had a twelve gates round go through that. So cauterizing is not a no good there's no situation. Cauterizing is done in the operating room or like say operating theater because that used to be a theater, and they will use a pen like instrument to cauter as individual vessels UM. And when you talk about gross cauterization or large area cauterization, you're basically creating a third degree burn with a lot of dead tissue around that is probably going to get infected or or you know, fall off. So in the major in the gunshot wound category, the first thing you try is direct pressure. Direct pressure, yep. And depending on where it is, so you have three different areas. There's your extremities, your junctional areas like your neck, your armpit, and your growing and then your torso which is like your chest and your abdomen. Um. Direct pressure will work for any of those sites, but you can only put tourniquets on your extremities really from what point down, So it depends on um. So Ideally, if you are able to look at the wound, you put the tourniquit two to three inches above it UM. But in like say a combat situation or a police officer was shot or um, somebody has closed on you can't tell. You put the tournique on as high up as you can to the junctional area all the way up to growing all the way to the shoulder basically, or to the junction of the shoulder. Tighten that one down and then expose the limb, and then you see where the wound is, and then put one two above it and you can loosen that top and you're not kissing that extremity goodbye when you turn to get it. No, sir. So even if you had a finger completely cut off or something, they had complete blood flow cut off. Six hours is when we're starting to worry about limbs schemia or lack of lack of auction to that tissue causing that tissue to die. Would you ever turn to get a finger? We do that all the time, um in the emergency department to temporarily to get a bloodless field to be able to sew up somebody's finger. You know, they cut it with a knife, and it's just because there's arteries that run on either side or your finger on um like where your fingers touch. And so what did I say. It saw a guy the other day, he's a he's a tree trimmer and he hit it with his chainsaw and so his artery was bleeding like stink, and so we had to put a tourniquet. We injected it with some lie to king with epinephrin, which that's a myth. You can't do that. Hand surgeon do it all the time. And we put a tourniquet on it. What do you use? Yeah, yeah, we use like a um, a vessel loop, which it's kind of thinner. You probably shouldn't use it so thin, but we had it on there for five minutes or something like that, but we can use. You tend to want to use. If you're using an impromptu tourniquet, um, you want them to be like at least an inch and a half wide. You don't want something super thin um because you can for a finger. Yeah. Room having these kind of conversations, I need to cross my arms. Why defensive posture? You're like you're processing up, you get nervous about you don't seem like somebody you handle bloody, bloody things all the time. I know, but talking about people being real bad injuries, yeah, makes you want to cross my arms because it Maybe it's because you feel vulnerable. I don't know, you know, I similarly cringe, like I was saying, people with chainsaws that's a very common injury. We see people either there arbors or you know, a lot of this like popularization of hinge cutting and things like that. And I'll tell you it's the only manual I've ever read front to back is the chainsaw Manual, because it's they're powerful tools, for sure. I mean, the popularity of hinge cutting, it's like a thing. So like my it's like a fan, it's a it's a thing. So asked Mark Kenyon about it. It's so people guys. Yeah, I thought you meant using a hinge when he fell a treat guys out in the woods hinge cutting trees. Yeah, exactly, you bring in brows I meant fellers. No, no, no, no, no, you're bringing browsers like fellas, but fellers like tree fellers. Yeah. And I don't know what it is about chainsaws, but it's one of those things where I feel like the less you use them, the more confident you are with it. You know, like people that use them are just like there's a varying degree of safety with them. And I don't think they didn't read the manu. Oh I'm very free wheeling with the chainsaw, but you know how to use it though. I'm very free wheeling too much, so oh buddy. Yeah, one time taking chainsaw and stick it right in to the toe of my shoe, right through the leather, cut through the sole and stop just shy on my toe and I had to run around with the gash in my boots. Last time I saw used when you had flip flops on. When we're grabbing those cottonwood stumps. I tell you, um, the battery operated chainsaw. That thing scares me because it's so much so toy like. It's like it's quiet, so how could it hurt me? Yeah, And every time I grabbed that thing, I'm like, now, remember it's a real chainsaw, and you watch that thing ripped through would you know? It's just like, my god, it's only a matter of time. I've turned over a new leaf. The last time I was wheeled to chainsaw, which is a couple of weekends ago. Chaps, Yeah, for sure, big boots. I didn't have my iron toe boots on, but I had big boots on. Chaps, big boots. The steel helmet, yeah, with the drop down face mask. My dad got me that for crystal snow in real hard and you lift the face mask up and you collect the wet snow, you put the face mask down. And it was less than ideal, but it just took a little more maintenance. Took a couple of rabs to find your cut again. I was full on, was full on, and I've turned over a new leaf. But we used to speak in the old days. We were cavalier with chainsaws. Now you've ever heard our favorite, uh my personal favorite chainsaw story from Doug during his dad do We tell a story all the time, but I try to tell a short version. It's like Doug durn his dad gasses stern him with the chainsaw, and like he goes and drives down and gets rescued and goes to the hospital and stuff. And a while later, like he'd left his all his stuff out in the woods. And a while later do it goes out to retrieve his old man's stuff and there's some old homelight chainsaw, and he said that jains house is laying on the forest floor. What's like it was possessed by a demon sharp and he's taking care of the motor. Right to take care of that motor. It's probably twenty years old, dude. It is the greatest story I feel like you told it on this show. Okay, so let's get back to tourniquets. What do you use for tourniquets? So we use UM. So if it's for a finger, you can do something like a vessel loop or like basically paracord. I would not use that because it's tooth thin. So um it's too thin. Because for a finger, you could use that temporarily, you know, it's all like temporary stuff. Um, but for like an actual extremity wound, we would use something like the CAT seven or the sam x T. There's like there's like what about stuff just the person's got laying around, so you could use um cool, No, you could. You could definitely make an impromptu tourniquet like you know. On Kl's podcast they talked about the guy from British Columbia who got mauled by a grizzly and ripped his own shirt limb off. Tie that around so basically tie it around your limb and then tie like a half like you're tying your shoe, and then put a stick in there, tie a knot on top of that, and then twist the stick around and then you tie the stick down so it doesn't move. Um, you could do that, and it's okay to do this. You could do that. So if I'm bleeding like holy hell out of my finger and I want to slow it down to bandage it, I can just wrap something around my finger to base your finger yet and start tightening it until the like grant crank crank crank crank, blood stops and I'm not doing irreparable harm to myself, not until about six hours. Yeah. Yeah, it's important to know this isn't a fix. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, it's the temper situation. Then keep hunting all Yeah, it has some blood for days, turning a little green though purple like this new shade. I had no idea you could do this. Yeah. So and again to temphasize it's a temporary thing. I mean, if you have a an arterial injury or a deep enough laceration, you should seek medical care, you know, to have it evaluated. You know whether or not it's it actually needs stitches or not, or it needs something more. Like you cut your artery, you're gonna need to see hand surgeon because the nerves and arteries tend to run right next to each other. So if you cut your index finger nerve. I mean that's a real fine area of you know, sensation for typing and handling stuff. You know, you don't want to have a nerve injury if you don't need it, So you got to see a hand surgeon eventually. What's your take on carrying combat gause. I used to carry it, and I carried it without knowing how one uses it. No, like quick clot, sure, yeah, quick clot it's about the same stuff. Yeah, it's like all all impregnated gauze with something to help clot blood. Well, I carried it for years. Then I realized that it was rock hard inside there, like it wasn't good anymore anyway, and I threw it out. And then I learned that I didn't know how to use it anyway, because I thought you held it on top of the wound. And then someone sent us a video. You need to pack that stuff into the wound channel. It depends what kind of wound, right, So there's varying kinds. There's surface wounds, um, and there's you know, puncture wounds, are deep wounds are cavitating wounds. So a bullet wound will cavitate, right. Cavitate means creative what means on a boat engine? Yeah, I actually I had no idea what that means. Cavitation plate, I don't know, to prevent it from sinking down, probably, Yeah, well they got a jet. Cavitation becomes a because you don't want to air like there's an intake and you wanted to intake exposed to undisturbed water. So people are very careful about the position, like the position of the cavitation plate relative to the bullet hole and learning about all this right now, anything but an expert. But I've been using the word cavitation more than normal. It's good normal being none unless you're talking about the hunt for red October. Yeah. I believe the word cavitations and there they're talking about it in a fair bit, but I'm still not able to use it with any sort of confidence. So bullet wounds have both, uh, you know, there's a realized track and there's also a temporary track that's created by the pressure of the wound, and so you can have um nerve and artery damage from that pressure as a bullet goes through the hydrostatic shock. Correct, Yeah, absolutely so, um a part of that, you know, you get some you can get some cavitation of tissue where you have tissue blown out or um so it's a hole. And so in a situation like that, putting some of those UH clotting agents in there into the hole to fill the hole and put pressure on the veins and arteries. Not only that, but also helping promote the coagulation cascade that happens in your body naturally. That's how they work. UM. But we do see, you know, we'll see UM people who have superficial wound sometimes that require say they're on a blood thinner, which it's more and more common now days. People have um abnormal heart rhythms, they have history of blood clots, and they're on a blood thinner and they have a wound that just will not stop bleeding. It's it's really UM, it's really frustrating for not only the patient the provider to to try and get to stop. We'll put some of that stuff on there and just put a gentle pressure wrapping on it and then it will will cloud off usually so you can use it in a superficient way. But you're in your application. If you had a stab wound or something like that, you're gonna try and pack some of that stuff in there. Yeah, what does a item a med item, a med kit item that you find uh, that people don't have with them but should And is there stuff people have but shouldn't and what is an appropriate kit? So Brodie and I were talking about sair day by and Large, um, the kits that people will buy it like ARII or whatever, you know, buy him at Meyer or whatever they're keeping in my car, going to Amazon, type in medical kit, yeah and throw that in your crime like sweet, you've got so Yeah, so you're gonna spend all this time and people if you feel secure if you have that equipment. So the best medical equipment that you can have is the medical kit you can have, is the one that you have with you. Because if you have a nice, sweetass kit but it's in your basement, doesn't really matter if you're having the ship at the fan in the laundry room somewhere. Yeah, yeah, buy and large. A lot of those kids are just band aids and like a pair of scissords and some tape and you know, gloves and whatnot. But you can make your own medical kit um with that same stuff for far less money and have it tailored to your needs. So the thing I would say, if you're involved in any kind of firearm or outdoor adventuring situation, I think a turni kid is something a lot of people do not have. Le store bought tourniquet, correct, yep. I think that that's very important because the most likely thing that's gonna happen to you is, you know, well, the most likely thing is you' either gonna get diarrhea or roll your ankle or both when you're camping or hiking or whatever. But on the off chance it's something super bad happens to you and you have an extremity injury, having a tourniquet can be a life saving what's the tourniquet? What's the store about? Tourniquet? Wind up looking like um small, No, yeah, we got some out in the grab them. We got some, had a bunch of them. Yeah, what a thinking about that? Johnnie? Should Brodie grab that tourniquet? Yeah, another great reason to buy an ONEX membership? Oh no, that's not it. Yeah. Uh So I was like, yeah, I don't need a tourniquet, but the a store bought tourniquet right, Because all you were ever taught was like how to make a tourniquet, how to improvise a splant, how to improvise a tourniquet. But uh yeah, just just in the lobby of our office here, I was like, you know, having that at pre made specialized. This is all it does, is a tourniquet saves you a lot of thinking time. Here's Brody now with the tourniquet. Looks like something you use the strap your canoe down to the top of a car. So there's there's a variety for kinds. There's about seven of them that are approved by the um T Triple C, which is the Tactical Combat Casualty Care Organization, which is a government organization that approves these things. And you can buy one for the problem let me tell you right now, go on. But the problem with that is it's too big and most guys aren't gonna carry it. Yeah, I mean, so I'm gonna start prevention. Is I think a real important thing that we um It looks like it looks like you're carrying a belt around with a stick tied to it. Yeah, he's turn a kid in cal I'm cal well, I just hope this thing can hold up these beefy arms. Biceps are pretty large, so cal was gord by god By out. So the main the main, one of the main causes of turning kits failure is that they don't get pulled tight enough initially, and you try and pull this windless around. It's kind of like putting your good word choice, trying to put your scope on and then doing the fine tune. If you put your scope on, all cock eyed on your barrel, the newing, all the fine tune in the world's not gonna fix it, right, So you're putting this on. Sorry, yo oh, I just don't hurt yourself. Doc crank got thing until his hand turns purple. Ah, So it's supposed to click, but I'm not getting enough. I think this science it worked. That was good, good, good observation. And then you twist this windless around and it will stop the bleeding. But usually these will click that windless down his clothes are twisted. Has got a leg that big around, a leg that big around? Or are there are some big folks out there? Yeah, dude, yeah for sure. Yeah, but they're not gonna be backpacking. So these that yeah, for sure, you're you're right about that. They're just like extraordinarily powerful. So those will you could fit. You could turn to get my my head, chest area. You can turn to get me around the armpits of this turns not advisable. Yeah, yeah, you don't turn it get neck wounds, neck wounds, junctional areas don't work. No, you don't want to do that. But what we learned this morning, right is like a huge part of this like triple C deal coming on is mass casualty events. Right, So you've got a big variety of folks in a random spot so the way, So I'm sorry, but this thing still doesn't make many sense to me, so it should be said, I think, um, no, no, do my arm. I can only learn when something that's uh like you know, so I think of a good injury for me, call what happened to me? Brody is working on your forearm. So this is your classic chainsaw injury. Right, Or if we get the video working, people will be able to get to check this out. Turning gets turniquets hurt is one thing us not cut that bad. That's how when does that little cranker come into play? Then now you do it once that's as tight as you get it. Then you crank it down, give me one like a portion of a crank, because on the windlass there and this the windlass, you're you're cranking that thing until you see the blood and just put it hook it in now. Then how's the anchor the windlass in right there? If we're talking about yep, just like that, yep, perfect, yeah, and you can crank that windlass down way tighter and usually but you're cranking the windlass until you see the blood flow slow or stop. I want to throw one of these ons someone who's bleeding so bad. It's very satisfying to help save somebody's life with some one of those. Yeah, for sure. So we just said there you oh that one click. That's why I didn't because it was I think it was. It was clicked. That's why I didn't go because I want to do it to someone. So I should say, you know, you know, anyone run around with firearms out in the woods, you feel should have one of these, correct? Yep. I bought them for my hunting group as a you know, every year we get each other presence of some variety. It's can be commemorative knives or whatever. You know, a nice bottle of guys are all jabbing arrows through their legs and stuff. Yeah, I mean, certainly any kind of penetrating wound. I think you should if you can be exposed. That all right, I'm switching over. I'm gonna start carrying one. I like it. So we did the Stop the Bleed course today, which is a course that UM was created by the American College of Surgeons after the New Newtown, Connecticut shooting UM at Sandy Hook Elementary and so basically the surgeons in Connecticut where the trauma surgeon said, look, we need to do something about this. How are we gonna do public outreach and prevent loss of life prehospital? And so they met, they put out four papers and they created this Stop the Bleed campaign where anybody UM who had some degree of like medical background, anybody from a respiratory therapist to a dentist to a chirop actor, doctor, nurse, e MT lifeguard, SKI patrol can get certified as an instructor and then you can teach people how to apply you know, direct pressure to stem massive bleeding and apply tourniquets. This is all in an effort to mobilize our first responder base to basically the lay public. So if a shooting happens like or like for instance, of bombing happens like marathon, Boston marathon. So this that happened. I can't remember what year that happened, but they saw the effects of bystanders applying tourniquets and saving lives. And those people were not using they were using belts and improvised tournicates and they were not perfectly placed, but they still stem the bleeding and those people whore whisked off to trauma centers right nearby. But in the so there's a big movement to mobilize the public, just like for CPR teaching people how to use a E d S, how to do um massive hemorrhage control. And unfortunately, you know, this is the world we live in and it's uh, it's a scary reality. But you know, like parents, they had to do the duck and cover thing for the Cold War, right, they were gonna duck under the desks if there was gonna be a nuclear school desk for sure, which would not work. But you know this is no You've got to make like the red down kids and mule. So that is a uh and I'm not I'm not paid by them at all. But that's a Sam x T And I remember Sam company, they UM when we would do a wilderness medicine training in UM in medical school and college. You know, I would write them and say, hey, could you guys give me some some splints, and you know, we're a bunch of poor med students with a lot of debt, and they would send me some stuff for for them and so, uh, you know, there's a variety of different choices and I think people should explore them. But it's definitely different than same like Sam, which is something you also say you should be carrying in your kid. Yep, I can't get it open? Is that just that'll just click? So here it'll here. There's not a single use, is it. No no, no, no, no, no, Brody can't get it open here? It doesn't click here. I got it anyway, you said, uh, Sam splint, we should be carrying those around. And there's a there's another one that's more commonly carried now because they were like one of the So it'll click like that. So that's and then you just lift it up like that. So it's it's the pressure created on that that makes it and you just lift it up like that. So, um, the cats seven, which is they have seven generations of them. Those are the ones I think primarily are used in uh combat medicine and and also like police officers and stuff will carry those. But I think these are probably gonna be more popularized. So part of the courses, you have a model with like a it's like a fake thigh with a big gash in it and a bullet wound, and you can practice on that and then once you do it a couple of times, then you're you're good to go. I mean, it's it's like learning. It's much more simple than CPR for sure. Um, it's kind of funny the fake thigh with the wounds in it. You jam your fingers in those wounds. And Brody and I were sitting next to each other and I'm like, yeah, that is we know that feeling fishing around for bullet or something, you know, Yeah, that's trauma flesh feel. Yeah. What else? So I think something like a SAM splint, because muscle sclet injuries are very common. Splint splint, Yeah, So they have these malleable splints that made of they're basically aluminum that has a little bit of patting on it, and the guy that invented them, UM was a trauma surgeon from Vietnam and he specialized in orthopedics. When he came back and Um, I was playing with this is a connection juicy fruit wrapper and was folding the foil and decided that if you fold it number of ways that it's more stiff. And so that's how he created these and we see those coming all the time. There's there's knockoff versions, but I'm pretty sure they made the first one. UM. But I feel like, here's what you're running. The risk of people are going to carry a splint. So you guys do the up a hunting that you guys do. You're you're going from what I see. I mean, you guys move, You cover a lot of ground and you move far. You don't generally have like big horse broad in camps right like, but people that are running operations where you're horsing in people in gear. Like having a medical kit. The size of a toolbox is not unreasonable to have some of that stuff in it, and a lot of this stuff is pretty lightweight for the benefit and in any medical kit, you want multiple use items in it. You don't just want a one off other than something like a turning kid is a is a one off valuable thing, you know, um, having things like some hypodermic needles you can dig splinters out of your finger, having appropriate medications. I think you know, I was talking to Brody about this. You have a pill box and you label it um aspirin, a seed of menifen, slash tile and all ibprof and slash motor in emodium for diarrhea, and then zoe fran which is on dancer tron, which is for vomiting. You know, so a curious single serving to tablet twin tablet bene drules too. Yep, that's not unreasonable too. So the pharmacology that you really need to have with you is is a lot of it's over the counter, and it's it's pretty easy. You can get really great pain control with doing alternating Thailand a motor And then people don't really realize or can you explain, because you explain that to us yesterday why you carry thailand all and and so and so for everybody that's listening to All medications have trade names. Thailand also trade name A seed a menifin is the generic name, and it's me and my experience personally, I just buy the generic Meyer brand, so seen a menefit is tail And also when you alternate them, you're supposed to take them. Uh. The's supposed to take a seat an in every six hours, and you're supposed to take between five grams um. Sometimes you can take a thousand milligrams, but you want to stay below four thousand milligrams a day otherwise you can hurt your liver. So a lot of people will take medications and then all of a sudden, an hour five or six, their tooth is throbbing again. They feel awful, They're like it takes a while for the new medication to set back. In in between that, what you could do is you could take a different medicine that works in a different way. So tailing all works at the central level of your brain to reduce pain and fever, and ibprofen is a nonsteroidal anti inflammatory that helps work at the site to prevent um swelling pain inflammation. So you're using two different meds that were two different mechanisms of action to help control your pain. So if you had somebody in your your party who you guys are eight miles out and they broke their ankle. Getting them good pain control can turn that situation from You can extract yourself, put a splint on, You can hobble out with a with a crutch, versus we got to carry you out because we can't get good pain control. And when you have to carry somebody out, which I've never had to physically do on a wilderness trip, but I've done in my training, it is an arduous ordeal and it puts the whole party at risk to have to hock somebody out very very difficult. Deadweight is horrible left carry around. I mean you guys know all that, like putting a backpack, pulling Brodier lawn for years now. Yeah, not dede animal wise, let's talking about what you know what a cam strap is like an NRS strap? Do not mhmm boat strap? Bolt strap? Like just so like a like a hitch like a like um it's a yeah, it's very similar to this where the buckle has teeth that allow that strap to slide primarily one direction. It rides on a spring. Is it like one of those where you go like this like cranks them on my top ratch strap? So that's all I know, Ye, cam strap is different. That be a good tourniquet depends on why it is right. So one and a half is probably better than one. But you could crank You could crank that down for sure. I mean people make turniquets out of belts and shirt sleeves and all sorts of found material. But the main goal is to stop the the arterial flow to that distal injury. So, uh, you know what I carry? What do you carry? Well, I'm telling you, but I'm also checking with you. Yeah, I do the talent all. I'll be profen buy a single serving those little square foil packets with two pills each. I use our organizer, back country organizer, and it's got a pocket that it was almost like made for this. I put a bunch of talent alls in there, a bunch of IV profans in there. As far as I know, they don't make Amoti mayde in those packets, but I buy the push packets of Amoti made, which is nice. We were talking about this yesterday. It's nice to have the label on there, the dose, so you know what you're doing. Yeah. The ideal ones are the kind where when you tear the square off, it carries the information on it because a lot of times I'll look in it and I don't know what I got his hand and stuff out. Yeah, so emoti made and then I carry benetrylcuse I'm always afraid of someone getting allergic reaction, some kind of reaction. Yeah, you feel like I should add in some zoo fran. I would for puking, because I have been UM. All of my experiences with that have not been actually in the field. They've been pre being in the field. And UM, having die real illness so bad that you can't feel like you you can't walk because you're so weak is a profound experience that it feels awful. UM. And so if you have some ammodium or you have some antibiotics that you might you know, get your doctor to prescribe to you ahead of time. Like if you guys are going to hunt in South America, I would say, Hey, write me a script for uh catholex in case I get a bad skin injury, like an infection, and like some either augmented or back drum or or cipro for bad die real illness. Yeah, that's the one I usually get. I get it, like when you're going to get your vaccines checked your vaccination's check. I'll get the travelers diarrhea. Yeah, prescription ahead of time. Yeah, the only anticipation of so, the only thing, the only thing with that. So and I remember this is not it's not a wilderness thing. But we were traveling after medical school. We were in Egypt and it was like a group trip that we went together and it was fun. And we all ate in Cairo at this like beautiful place and we're looking out over this huge park and we decided to have some appetizers, had some tabuli. You're not supposed to eat like the fresh stuff, only supposed to eat the cook stuff because it basically the water has feces in it in certain areas or you know, in in different parts of the world. Uh, the sanitation is not quite the same, or you're just not used to that kind of bacteria like India or whatever. I probably get diarrhea immediately, and like six of us were just crapping our brains out, and um, I was the only one that had the cippro. So I had people like knocking on my door in the middle of night, like, hey, could you and the real dirty kid in your groups doing just fine? Yeah? Exactly. We had our kids looking the floor at the airport on the way here. It's a great way to prevent illness. Um, but the cip road so it changes, so the bacterial resistance patterns change, and and also side effect profile or it's different. So with cipro, one of the things, it's a low rate. It's like less than one percent. You can have a tendonopathy that develops after taking even a short course where you can rupture your achilles heel, which for something like yeah, it's really messed. Yeah. So it's a very effective thing for treating dire illness, but I try and avoid it, um unless I absolutely need it for um, for somebody who has an allergy to say augmented or backdrum um. So I would probably not recommend that at this point, you know, given the amount of activity level you guys do and like, you know, so the thing in medicine is that you have studies and you have anecdote, and so anecdote speaks wonders. So I saw like two or three cases of it within six months, and I was like, oh man, this is it really affects you. You know, when you see enough cases like that, even though it's not the preponderance isn't that high, you know, And if there's a better alternative, why not without those kinds of side effects? Why I try that? Do they use cipro to treat beaver fever? I don't know what so they like? And cryptosporidia they use, uh to treat giardia. I believe they use metronitis all, which is a different kind of antibotic. It works on that particular kind of bacteria. Uh, it's a Giardia is a protozoa. M hm. Would they give you that just to carry around with you? Depends on I mean, it's not unreasonable to ask your doctor and to go and say I'm going here, I'm doing this. What would you recommend? I mean, this is kind of a especially in this type of area. And if you guys are in Montana or Colorado and they deal with hunters that are doing things that you're doing, then they should be familiar with. If you go overseas, they can give you on the CDC website web vaccines you need, you know, so UM, it's not unreasonable to ask ahead of time UM for small prescriptions like that, because you know, like you might not need um. You know, if you had a prescription for uh cephlexin for a skin injury or cellulitis that developed. You could start taking that and then as you got back out, you know, go see your doc and say he'll say keep taking it, or this is getting worse. You need different antibotics. You have to go to the hospital. So, um, it's kind of a bridge. You know. Maybe we didn't even get into flesh eating bacteria. It's a rare to come back out. Oh, so many, so much we could cover. No one knows this, but we're working on we've never even mentioned this. I don't want to tell too much. Secret project. We're working on a secret project, top secret. I heard top secret book project and uh, this will give a little bit of a hint. Yeah, if you're smart, you can figure it out. This top secret book project is divided into this top secret project is divided into ten components. One of those components, UH Dr Lazara is uh consulting on us with love to help anything I can do. Um, we never talked about flesh eating bacteria, which you think is just a freak. It's a free Yeah, it's it's a scary thing, you know. Um, it's a very rare thing. But we do see it. It's becoming more and more prevalent with the more and more diabetes we see. And the main thing that you worry about is somebody who has like paying out of proportion to a wound that looks like the ones I've seen. The guy had an innocuous wound on his thigh. It just very clean looking. It was a small puncture moment. I don't even he didn't even know how he got it, and he lost his entire leg and almost like part of his abdomen um. And it's a it's a terrible thing. The bacteria will glide along the fascial planes, just like when you're you know, processing a deer the long muscle. It will glide along the fashial planes and just travel up and down. And it's the main The main treatment is operative to breed ment. So it's not antibiotics. I mean, we give the antibiotics, but they need to go the o R to get the limb cut off or the area to breed. It didn't cut out. It's it's a scary thing. And so in my profession, we are very focused on risk versus benefit and thinking worst case scenario a lot. And so if we see somebody with that, we will call the surgeon and would say I need you to come take a look at this guy and give me your opinion. What do you think? And um, you know a lot of times they'll just take him right to the o R. Or we can do a bedside would just do a bedside cut. And if like dirty dishwater appearing fluid comes out and the tissues like soft, you put your finger in there and it's just like fucking pudding, then that's a high chance they have that. That's just beyond reason. It feel like if you go in and they're like, okay, something really serious and they take off your entire leg, that's where it ends. That's where we're like, reason, Okay, yes, okay, it was very serious. You had to take off my entire leg. But then when you like throw in the and part of the abdomen, Yeah, that's like where it gets beyond like no, no, like very serious, but it moves super quick, super quick, like you know, twenty four hours or less, and you're you're hurting really bad. I mean, I think my great with the fascial planes that you described as the way when you um shoot a deer, the way clodding. We'll travel in those fascial planes well also air too, right, so you feel all those air bubbles like you know, shoot something in the chest. And then you know you're looking at air bubbles and they're like why is there? Like why would I take the front shoulder off? Is there like clodding all the way up into the neck The way it travels between those things. I just think it's because of the massive destruction, like you expose that. The bleeding happens everywhere, and so we'll get sometimes we'll get people to pop along a neumothorax, and then you get this thing called subcutaneous emphysema, which is basically air slash feels like rice crispy treats under the skin. You can feel it on your deer too, and then you'll feel the deer you'll feel off the neck and towards the face, you'll feel that like kind of rice crispy treat And that will happen when people puncture along. Yeah. Yeah, it's scary because you know sometimes their face can swell or you know, it makes it difficult to put a tube in to treat it because you know they might be an obese person. They have a lot of fat tissue and then all of this Now you're dealing with air and you're like having a smush basically smushed their chest like you're pushing on a like a like a bubble rap package to to get down to the chest wall. You know. A guy just rode in. I'm trying to get permission to put this photo. I'm sure I'll be able to get permission to put it. I'm gonna put it on Instagram, So if you go to at Steven Ranella, you'll find this photo by the time you listen to this, hopefully. He hit a mule here with his bowl. Yeah, I wanted to give it a while before he tracked it. And he goes up to the top of hilled us a glass around for a while and eventually, not far from where he shot, glasses up a buck standing next to a tree. Then the more he looked at it, something was weird about it. He'd hit the buck. The buck ran down the hill, must have misstepped and impaled itself through the ribs on a broken branch that went in one side and puckered the hide out on the other side. Talking about a bad way to go, he had to pull it off the stop, which is a tree man term for a broken limb. I do not know that are the question whether it was a real word or not, but I've come to accept it. Hold it off the stop. And he sent us a picture of the deer hanging on the stop, and then the stop with the deer removed, and that deer was all the way through it. Yeah, pucker now at the hide. Yeah, that's a that's a sad way to go for any creature. Unfortunately, as a last thing, you don't have to come back because we didn't even scratch the surface. Well, I don't think like I wasn't very I wasn't like a very good host because I didn't I wasn't very efficient. You guys are, I mean you didn't ever ever did a class and hosting because you guys all do a pretty darn good job, I think because school hard knocks man. Well, I mean, you know, conversation can be can be complicated, sometimes a lot of dead There's not a lot of dead space on your podcast, for sure. I try to do a good hosting job, but I didn't get to my I didn't like get to everything I wanted to get to, missing your honest this guidance, I know, Ni, what do you think about that Annie, which is what he's out there doing right now? Yeah? So can you get out that thing you had your showing me what you need to do if you want to stay alive a long time? Oh yeah, CC thing up. Dr Lazarre is gonna walk you through what you need to do. The American male hit us with an American mail, alright, an American mail wants to live a long time. Yeah. So if you go to the CDC website, it's a wonderful governmental organization. They can they give a lot of stats as they track causes of death across the country, and so kind of wrote real question. Yeah, what it makes sense that the that the antibiotic I'm on plus the gram ivy profens are giving me a lot of gastro intestinal upset for sure, So ibprofen, I quit the antibiotic. Depends what you're on. We got I can't remember. It's like a couple of word, a couple of letters and words probably, Yeah, Okay, keep in mind this room is not as well ventilated as it used to be. It's not like that, man, it's different. So so a lot of times So antibiotics can cause a lot of g I distress, so upset stomach or diarrhy. About one in five people get diarrhea with taking antibotics, So I've never had this before, but it's it's not fun. Not a lot of um, not a lot of great evidence. But eating yogurt every day or taking prot could could prevent diarrhea if I quit the ib pro from which I'm thinking about doing anyway, is that going to help or is it the antibiotic that's doing it. It could be a combo both because I'd be profen as side effects, and it not only stops bad inflammation but can also stop there's such a thing as good inflammation, which is UH in the same pathway. It helps make mucus in your stomach to help protect your stomach from the acid the stomach produces, and so um. It inhibits that as well. So you can see people who come in and chronically take ibuprofen and give themselves a stomach ulcer. So I would recommend cutting your dose back to four hundred or six hundred milligrams because I'm done. You can just got four more days of this antibiotic. But I want to quit now. It's generally recommending that you continue them till the full course is done, because you don't want to leave the resistant bacteria sitting there in your skull there. Well, I'm taking the antibotic prophylactically. I don't have an infection. I know I did have an infection. Yeah, I'd probably take my tooth out. This is so. I have a friend who I like very much, a guy that i'm i'm we're gonna go. We're hunting together soon, deer hunting. And he's a neurologist, and he says a lot of I remember I got one of my little camp Yeah, for sure. So he he often says he's neurologist. He deals with a lot of like sixty year olds that don't want their prostate operating on and he says, you know, his line is, we don't have to do anything, but we should, Yeah, and just leaves it that and lets it hang. And so you don't have to do anything but what you know, but you should. And what I would do is probably finish them, take tilent on instead, give yourselfs a little bit of a knease. One of my favorite parts about this tooth process can't hold what y'all was going to ask you about staying alive long time? As they came out and presented the price, the cost of all this whole thing to me and ala carte fashion dude, as though, um, I would get halfway into this and quit. Yeah, but that caused this much for this part. I think if you're buying a car and you're like, well, the tires of this, the doors, this, the dentistry, the dentistry operation they've got, Essentially it's a different kind of business. I mean, they have an infinite demand and they have essentially said we're taking cash, and so it's a very expensive endeavor to get major dental work done. Insurance is a bomb around dental for sure, and so all the more reason to brush teeth loss. You know you don't want those problems. You know, it's prevention is worth a pound of cure. Okay, help everyone stay alive a long time, alright, So first thing, don't smoke, uh, Second thing, where your seatbelt? Um, stay fit and active. If you look at these um CDC websites, you can see the leading causes of death and so for people our age and the you know, mid thirties, forties, the number one thing that used to kill all of us um between like five and forty five was motor vehicle collisions, so unintentional injuries. But in the most recent decade that has overtaken and overtaken by opioid overdoses. Possibly it's insane. Man, it's it's an epidemic for a reason, and it's um, it's an unfortunate there's some interesting podcast you can listen to us how that came about, and you know it is a tragedy. More people in our age demographic, well I just left it. More people in our age demographic are dying from getting too hopped up on pain killers. Then are dying from getting a car crashes. Yep, it's insane. Um Amazon alaz on those things a couple of days ago. So the rates of addiction, can you know, some people have very addictive personalities, and so being on these pills for uh, it's I've read everywhere from a couple of weeks a couple of months, and you'll be physically addicted to them. And it's not so being physically addicted as different than the mental addiction. So you will go through withdrawals if you stop taking them. I took a tablet twice. No, yeah, you're fine. Well no, And that was like very much opposed to taking another time because it's like, wow, I sleep good. Yeah, sound like it's a slippery slope. Man, dude, I know people that have had dental and so I think part of the problem too, is it like we just didn't up until the last decade or five years, we just don't get taught how to treat acute or chronic pain. In medical school, they don't teach you that. And now there's courses where you learn how to do it, and our residents, we spend a lot of time saying, this is what we typically give for this, because a lot of times you would just see see one, do one. You know, you just do what your mentor did, and you'd give somebody for a niece orgery, give them sixty norco or sixty percose because you don't want them to have to call you because they're in a lot of paint, so you give them extra. Right, So then they have forty percosets sitting in their closet and then their grandkid comes over and steals those and then goes to a party, and you know, it's just a multifaceted epidemic. Um, and the health care industry is trying to correct that. And I think that, you know, there's there's a blame that can be thrown around everywhere, but I think we're we're trying to correct it. Have you seen the documentary I Am Trying to Break your Heart? Nope, not. It's about a musician. There's a little bit in there about percoset. Yeah, it's it likes the way it makes music sound. Yeah. Man, everybody's everybody's looking for a drug. I mean, whether you're filling it with McDonald's or alcohol or cigarettes, or religion or whatever. Everybody's looking to trying to fill some sort of void in their life and and and process those emotions. And you know, we see lots of unhealthy coping mechanisms, but there's plenty of healthy ones, you know, and um, you know, if you struggle with something like that, not only there's a whole armamentarium of people that are willing and ready to help it all hours of the day, social workers, primary care, doctors, emergency you know, we're these people went into this for this reason and it's a big you know, you have a lot of valuable people that that have these struggle with these problems, you know. So, so it used to be if you want to stay alive between the ages or whatever, and forty five, you don't want to get in a car crash. So we don't know, you don't want to get in a car crash, and you don't want to get hooked on pills. Yeah, so where your seatbelt, don't get hooked down pills? Right, and then what comes next? Then what's going to kill you? Then, unfortunately, you see an uptick of malignant neoplasms or cancer in the middle ages, like fifty to sixty five, that's what gets you. Then that and that, So that's like basically that's kind of that's behavioral. You know, if you're smoking a lot, If you smoke, or you you are obese, it increases your risk of cancer if you're obese. UM, because fat is you know, produces hormones that your body gets exposed to. So it can be lifestyle choices that expose you to that, or it could be just a bad genetic draw and so being somewhat lucky in life is nothing you can do about that. So cars kill you, then your genes kill you, and then um and then it's just worked up a little chunk of bone. Yeah, I'm actually grinding. I'm grinding it up right now with my teeth. I think you'll be okay, You're good. Not my own some dudes. I hear that. And then after that, it's cardiovascular disease, which um the only way to really so some of that is going to kill you, like sixty plus. I mean, we see it depends. You know. We see people with third five who use cocaine or smoke a lot of a bad family history, who get heart attacks. And you told me I probably don't need to worry about dying from that. So because you're so active, I mean, you know, I don't think people realize the uh So, everybody knows it's smoking is bad for your lungs, but I don't think people realize that smoking is bad for the vessels around your heart. They hardened early, and so that's I think people don't realize, um, how that can affect you. So Yanni used to smoke. Yeah, I hear used to chew too. It's uh anything about that, Joannie. I don't leave home without it. So, uh So, after the cardiovascular disease, then it's um pahone you're saying fault. Yeah, I think it's fault. Yeah, it's falling. Someone told me recently that once you hit a certain age and you break your hip, yeah, you're dead within a month. Yeah, because of all the coal morbidities that come with it. So it's kind of like sharks, right, so or fish, you know, stop morbidity. Yeah, it was something like I can't here what it was, some staggering thing like once you're and you break your hip, you have a chance of being dead in a month or And it's really scary because you see, you can see these eighty year old young eighty year old ladies come in who you know, they break their hip, and they don't realize how how this is like one of the last notches sometimes, you know, it's it's really profound because if you stop, when you're like they come in, you're like, you're statistically you're done, but you're not saying that. You mean, you're saying, we're gonna get you fixed up, We're gonna try the best we can. And I don't think they realize how serious something like that is. Don't chance you're done? No, no, no, no, yeah, we don't. That's going back to the how you are your grandma treated. That's not a good good approach. But I think, uh so, people don't realize how a body emotion stays in motion. And I think it's not only for your brain if you're continually using your brain, but also your body. And everybody was stressing like, oh, you gotta run all the time and cardiovasc your fitness. But really, and my wife could attest this too because she's a doctor. You know. We see strength as a big issue, like older people that just can't stand up out of a chair. Right, you get up and go, And the more sedentary become, the less your blood flows, the more you eat, the more it just like a shark and water. You gotta stay moving all the time. Whatever it is. Yoga is terrific um. Strength training and some cardiovascular is the way to stay for That's what I plan on doing from what I've seen, so where your seatbelt, don't get hooked on opioids, have good genes, stay active, correct, don't smoke. Don't smoke, that's the and then eat eat things that spoil, right, you won't want like you're trying the other day, Like eat things you're talking about the brown food, right, you can watch the time lapse video of some fast food sit in the woods, and it looks the same three weeks later than it does. I bet it does. I bet it does. Tastes like salt and fat. It's preservatives, right, So my I was trying to explain my and I don't addhere to this in the strict fashion, but I was trying to explain my diet. Your day, we have an arguing about fat diets. Well, I was marveling at how fat diets um, they only die when they get replaced. Yeah, are you there's never a period of no fat diet. Yeah, there's all like a fat diet lives. It's like it's like when you're a king. Yeah, in the old days, Like a king or an emperor lives until it gets killed by yeah, an open coming king or emperor. And fat diets only get fat diets only get killed by a new replacement. There's never like we never take a year off of fat diets. Yeah, man, So the reason they're the reason there's more and more diets of coming around me. If there was one diet that worked for everybody, then that's what people would do, you know. But the thing is that it's all about calories in calories out right, So you have to burn more calories than you put in in order to burn fat. In order to do that, you have to exercise, which is the hardest part. People don't can't or won't, or they're stressed, or they work it on. I got kids, I know how hard is to fit in working out. I mean it's ridiculous. So so diet I'm trying to construct is this Are you starry to interject? But are you in ketosis yet? Because that's a big one now, you know, get I'll tell you what my diet is. Yeah, that it should look like it was chopped out of a fish or animal, meaning you're looking at it and you can tell that it was chopped out of a fish or an animal, or it looks like it grew out of the dirt. Yeah, So they talked, that's a diet. That's not even a fad diet. That's just a diet. You're talking about whole eating, right, you're talking about I don't know what I'm talking about talking about looking that's it. That's like I don't want anybody interpreting it. So it's like if you can call you like it I'm just envisioning all the things you've excluded from your diet. Most wit can just only be found at fancy restaurants. But no, it's it's a it's a hype. I'm not gonna do it. I'm just saying I feel like that's when I feel best the most time, when I'm like when I lay out my kids dinner at night, I'm most happy when I look at like it looks like stuff that you chopped out of animals and grow out of the dirt. Yeah, I mean, it's probably good for him. So I often tell patients, in the simplest terms, just eat around the perimeter of the grocery store. Everything that's on the outside my middle. My doctor. I've heard it before, my doctor, stay away from the middle. As the frozen stuff, the like the process. You eat what God and nature made, not what man. Just go laugh at the grocery store. I get frozen veggies because I just, yeah, it looks like it got shot grew out of the dirt, for sure. I mean, I'm certainly no saying I love potato chips, but you know, I try, and it doesn't look I could grew out of the dirt. They're bad for you. But unless you get the kind of look Pringles, it looks like a leaf came out of a machine. Um, if let's get a concluder from Johnnie, I have a good looking aunt. Thanks Johnny kel you gotta come back, man. We've wait, we've burned up disease. We're coming down. We covered that with the in fact, we had an epidemialogies for that. Yeah, and it's trying to do one to punch. We had. We had like an infectious disease guy. Now we're trying to have an injury guy. Yeah, it's super relevant. I mean listening to your story about your experience with lime, I mean that was fascinating to hear that about your elbows, what numb and whatnot. That's that kind of stuff is I mean, we don't fully understand how the body works, and that is a very squirrely disease. I don't it's crazy. That's a great word for it. Squirrely. Yeah, very scary too. You turniquet man, Yeah, yeah, I mean you gotta make like I said, I just feel like I go back and just start a little smarter and a little safer instead of the trial and error existence I've led because it's just harder now because, like I said, every time I look back, if somebody's like, well, you know, you shouldn't do that, all the dumb stuff you do all the time, not you, not you. But but oh my god, I'm so much better than I was ten years ago. I'm so much safer than I was. I think about this stuff so much more. Um, I'll tell you quickie. Yeah, we grew up next to dude. They're down the road from dude. Uh. Dan Morgan and Mike Morgan two brothers, very different brothers, but one of them fixed up an old snow and being I can't remember what happened. He had a problem where you wound up that he would take a mason jar and fill it full of gas. Perfect, I'm not joking. He had a mason jar full of gas with a lid on, a ball cap on it, not a ball cap like a baseball cap, ball brand cap, and a hole in it. He would fill that jar full of gas and carry it between his legs with the fuel line going into the jar of gas. That was his fuel tank between his legs. Uh, And then barely warranted comment we're going, so you do, superstar? Yeah? But in regards to the opioids, you know, my grandma just passed away here um end of the summer. And sorry to hear that, by the way, oh thank you. Yeah. She had she had a great run. Um hard headed old gal six I think, yeah, um. But she was like vehemently anti drugs and she would you know, scientologist, no, she just like she was. She would literally scream at the doctor and say, you're not going to turn me into a goddamn drug addict. That this cholesterol film. Yeah yeah, I mean she was like and if she felt because she had to have surgeries and stuff, and if she felt like at all doped up, she's like, what are you giving me? And just and I mean then that's that's the way she expired. Like she she was with it and fought that stuff until you know, she she exically like went into a pain fog and then the family got to step in and be like, okay, go ahead, doper up so we can. Yeah. Yeah, it was, I mean, it was amazing. It's good to applaudable in the sense that it's good to ask what people are giving you, even if you're in that environment. It's nice to ask and say, hey, take some ownership and be like, what are you doing to me? Don't just take everything face value, you know. But thing like being on the outside, right, we're like take the pill, trying to hurt you. Yeah, you got anything to wrap up? Yeah, I just want to thank Alan, because what was I saying, Adam or what you're saying that was gonna be a Michael but Alan, Yeah, No, I just want to thank you. No, you did not like I could have made that mistake. Yeah, but I've got I've gotten kind of complacent about what I was carrying around in my medical kit and just kind of throwing it in there in the bottom of the pack, you know, just I'm like, it's there. But now I'm gonna like get a little more serious about looking at it and what's in there and checking it frequently and things like that. Oh, I've been thinking this this whole thing, Like this weekend, I gotta I gotta make a trip to the store here before I hit through. Yeah, because like stuff goes bad or gets wet or you know whatever. And people definitely, people definitely love love gear stuff and this is a valuable way to spend some time and a little bit. It can go a long way, I think. But my second thing was when when we were talking about how to live to be an old age something you pointed out that we didn't touch on. And I'm not condoned and drinking or being mean to people, but you said, uh, angry alcoholics. You know they can they can go a long time, yea. So you know, we sometimes we just see people that are able to withstand. You know, some people smoke for five years and they end up with COPD. Some people smoke till there nine and have no breathing problems. So it's it's a lot of it's genetic. Or you see people who treat their bodies like a playground and live to old age. And but you said, being me means like being a little means a good thing you think, you know, in reference to the fact that some of the middle aged people I see who end up being diagnosed with cancer, unfortunately, it's always it's a it's a part of our gallows humor. You know, they're just so nice. Why would that happen to that person who's like, uh, you know, a pastor with three kids and super nice and great guy and he's got pancreatic cancer for no freaking reason, you know. And it's just this ironic, horrible thing that I got my grandma throwing stuff at you know, he lives in your nineties, you know, so um it's a joke that you know, you have a little bit of a mean streak, but yeah, you can you know, uh take it out on a tree stump or something like that. Well, I was at the dentisty or day. I couldn't see if there was an old old lady in the stall next to you whatever they call those things, And I heard her. He's like greating her and all she has to say to him, She's like, you're gonna wear gloves in a mask? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, tell yeah, yeah, you're correct. Yes, I'm going to It's good to advocate yourself. We can all do it politely, all right, You got any final and you gotta have to come back on. Man. I love to love to you know. We never give a final thought too. Yeah, no, fill the engineer never say no. One cares a handsome devil. I appreciate that. I think the reason most people don't care because I don't have a whole lot to bring to the table. Yeah, I don't care less. What film right now. But yeah, I just want to thank you for for that's about enough. We've heard enough. No, I was here filing now that you got started. Yeah, no, I mean I was kind of nervous when that during the class today, that slide popped up that said, you know, they're warning disturbing images coming up, because I think when I think most humans, they're natural inclination is to kind of push stuff like horrible injuries out of their heads and like, because it's just it's a massive reminder that we're all just sacks of goo. Yeah, absolute, and like, you know, one horrible thing could happened and all the good could spill out and we could be dead. But I think it's really important to at least learn the basics of how to keep the goo in. Yeah, so yeah, thanks for coming in. You should have him comment more often. Always start that's pretty good, young good. I used to think he's some kind of playboy and then realize he's got kids. Yeah, keeps quiet about him, Yeah, not very proud of them, apparently, lovely, lovely children. What do you got any concluders? I would just say, you know, to all of the first responders and in emergency and emergency staff, nurses, everybody's out there, who's you know, standing standing on the wall in the middle of the night taking care of people. Thank you to everybody that does that. And for all of us hunters out there, please protect yourself, protect your family, um because you know, like Phil was saying, it only takes one misstep and we're dealing with a pretty life changing situation. So announcer preventions worth a pound of cure. So be safe. Yeah, when you're bragging up, how your pack anyways three pounds and you're washing your body bleed out inside of the hill. Yeah, you need to you want to have to hunt another day. They could have had a three pound, three ounce pack and had you turniquet. Yeah, very good. That's a great point. So and thank you guys. And I think also too, I mean, what you guys do, what your vision is producing both for nature conservation and hunting is extra positive. And I think we'll live on for a long time. So I think you guys are doing something really special here. So thank you, Thank you. Than I look forward to working with you on our secret project, secret double triple A. Right, Thanks guys,