00:00:07 Speaker 1: As a guide and hunter, I've spent thousands of days in the field. This show is about translating my hard won experiences into tips and tactics they'll get you closer to your ultimate goal success in the field. I'm Remy Warren. This is Cutting the Distance. Welcome back everyone to Cutting the Distance podcast. This week is part two of the live Q and E I did from the Pope and Young Club convention in Reno, Nevada. For me, these are really fun episodes to do, and I think probably out of the line of podcasts in the past, some of the best episodes if you're looking for high level tactics, are just to better understand my hunt strategies. And this is the first for us doing something live. But I think, well, what I really enjoyed about it is the fact that I really couldn't share you pick the questions. So because of that this episode, there are a few SAW tactics that I may never have divulged otherwise, maybe not because I wouldn't want to, but because I just wouldn't think about diving into that tactic. So I hope you guys enjoy it. Let's jump in right now to the first question and go live to the Pope and Young. It's it's awesome to be here at Pope and Young Club convention. Sixty years of Pope and Young. And I'm excited. You know, my my kind of bases in Western big game hunting obviously archery hunting. Um. So, you know, I like to what I like to do. I love to do these questions answers because it's a good way for me to interact with you kind of you know there maybe there's a question that you've had about tag draws, hunt like hunt tactics, any kind of question that there is, I will be more than happy to answer in And even if I don't know the answer they I'll probably give you an answer, um and you can google it later. Don't ask me anything to do with math, please. Um. I think there's some pretty weird conversions. Last the last hour, I was failed that math test. But um, if it's adding up six by six, I know that. Um. So yeah, we'll get we'll get started. Um yeah. So I'm excited to kind of kick this off of anybody. You know, I just want to open it up. We'll kind of create a discussion and if there's questions on questions or whatever, feel free. Um, you know, I'd love to kind of answer whatever you guys have. UM, so anyone want to kick it off? What is your opinion on the filming rules Colorado Wilderness. Oh, that's a that's a loaded question getting into up politics here. Um. You know, I mean I think like for the most part of filming in wilderness, you know, is kind of not necessarily allowed, especially commercial filming. Here's my thought. I mean, this is just my personal thoughts on filming um in wilderness. I think that in many ways it's I can understand the idea behind it, because you don't want Wilderness is a very very special thing to me. It's a very special thing to a lot of hunters. And the reason the wilderness is such a cool place is because there there is no motorized there's no bicycles, there's no helicopters, there's no planes, there's no chainsaws, there's you're doing things the way they were. And that, to me is like the whole reason that I want to go into the wilderness, you know, I want to be in a place that's like everything else that's around you get back there, it's it's how it was, And that's just an incredible feeling and to be able to preserve and protect that is extremely important now as a guy that loves to film and share and other things. UM, I like the idea of being able to share those things with maybe people that can't experience it or don't understand the appreciation of why we love the wilderness. There's so many people that see that thing on a map and it means nothing to them. And if it means nothing to them, I mean I like to think that these kind of things can last forever, but I don't necessarily know that that's true. I mean, maybe a hundred years from now, it's like, hey, that's where we just we get rid of that, you know, it's like, oh that's a waste. Um. So to be able to bring people in and share those experiences is really cool. But I also understand, like, you don't want a giant film crew coming in. You don't want this impact. That's like it doesn't really go with wilderness. So in my summation, I think if you do it my way, where it's just you and one camera, I think that that's okay. You know, a single person filming their own trip kind of thing. I think that's a really great way to share that experience of the wilderness. And it's like, okay, well you self film, you do it yourself. Of course that's your thought. But I kind of think it's a good way of like that, trying to find that balance of making it this big production thing where anybody could go back there and film star Wars, or making it a thing where hey, I'm just trying to share what I love and like the land and the appreciation for the wildlife and the things back there, because I mean, how many nature wilderness films have you seen where it's like, I mean, you know, films in the frank Church or those kind of things. Those are things that I remember growing up watching and saying, that's the whole reason that I wanted to go into the cell way wanted to go into the frank you know, seeing it because if I didn't see it, I wouldn't understand it. Um So to be able to see it first and then kind of get that dream, and that dream is kind of what promotes people to go in and check it out and preserve it and protect it and and be able to share it. So that's a roundabout way of saying, like I don't really know where I stand on it. I love willerness, but I also like being able. I like the idea of being able to share it. Um. But yeah, I hope that kind of answers the question. And I don't necessarily I'm not super familiar with like the the what's going on in Colorado wilderness, but I feel like it's probably fairly similar to kind of all wilderness. Is that that kind of answer? It awesome? Thank you anybody else? I mean, and I can also just start talking about things. So I, I know, you based yourself right out of you know, the Reno area here, and when did you start venturing out into you know, other states and you know, going into public land and other states. Yeah, I started, uh fairly young. I mean I was probably I think my first out of state hunt was, um thirteen. My my grandpa lived in Montana, and so I spent all my summers up in Montana with my grandpa, and so that was kind of like my first you know, grew up hunting there with him. He actually, uh, he actually moved up there when he was younger and started working as a guide and outfitter in the bitter Root in the Cellway wilderness. UM. And so you know, doing horse trips and all that kind of stuff. And then you know, when I was a kid, he ended up selling his his outfitting, but I would go up there and hunt with him and kind of learn the land throughout the summer and then go up and do some hunting and stuff like that. And that's actually how I started my outfitting business in Montana. That's why I's like everyone's like from Nevada, why in Montana? Well, I mean pretty much my entire life lived in both places, um to a certain extent, and really knew that era really well because he was the type of guy that would just drive us up to the trailhead and say, okay, like the road up and he said, all right, I'll meet you at the bottom. Thirteen years old, like I find your way down. It's like okay. I was like thinking about it, and I'm like, yeah, um yeah, Ben, for yourself, I don't know what he I think you um, but it was pretty cool. You you like, you know, loved being able to share that with us and show us around, and so, you know, growing up and having that experience and that knowledge was awesome. And then you know, shortly after high school, I was like, well, that that's the mecca of elk guiding. You know, if I want to be an elk guide, I gotta go up there where it's where it's on, where you can pick up a tag and hunt you know, unlimited areas and over the counter tags and and really have an opportunity and and do a lot of guiding and hunting up there. So um, you know, and and then I think one thing I am, I was a fairly early adopter of just like starting to apply other places because I just like I knew I loved to hunt and growing and I think actually growing up in Nevada was the reason that I started going to other states because we were one of the only places that didn't have over the counter tags. So kind of that thought of being like I knew a lot of adults, I was like, I was obsessed with hunting, and I'm like, I knew a lot of adults that would go five or six years between hunting big game animals. And I say it like, I was like, I don't want to be that person, Like how can you do that? You know? So I had to find other places to go. Um, And so I kind of started even before a lot of that, uh, before all these magazines of telling you you know what I mean I did, I was like, that's what I did. I read and researched and started applying, and I mean I've got now looking back, I mean I'm not I'm fairly young and have twenty five points in most states, so you know it's I still haven't drawn anything anywhere by day. You know, I've got the points to cash in hopefully one day, Um, which is pretty cool, so kind of just I've had that kind of mentality for a long time. Yeah, and you being so close, you know, to the California side and see here in Avata Range, When did you start venturing over there into the California growing up? I wish I knew now what I know. I knew then what I know now, because it was like, it's so close, And I mean, now I've figured out that I could be hunting in some pretty awesome over the counter zones where I can be pick up two tags and really like get after it and some awesome wilderness, and I'm like, and I could be hunting that closer than the places I hunt in my own home state. UM. And I didn't realize that until fairly later in life. Um, probably about you know, fifteen years ago. Um, but I mean still, you know, enough time to take advantage and and do some cool hunts over there, and you bare tags or whatever. You know, I didn't realize, like you know, everybody's leaving California to go somewhere else, and I think that there's actually some pretty good hunting that you know that people don't really even realize or it doesn't get talked about enough, because when you really think about it, yeah, you really are when it comes to over the counter tags and the end of the access and the public access that we have. If you're a public land hunter, I mean you have endless opportunity. Yeah, there's there's a lot of opportunities for you know, over the countertype stuff, and they have a lot of good stuff that I think a lot of people don't recognize or realize. So I think it is one of the few Western states that probably gets talked about the least and has probably the most potential. Yeah exactly, Well not anymore because you're on the record. Yeah, yeah, anybody else, How long have you been an That's a good question. So I started outfitting, Um, well, now it's a math question. Damn. It. I told you no math questions. Okay, let me do the math. I was, yeah, okay, let's see one times to carry the three No, Um, I have been outfitting for uh I think this would be my seventeenth year. Yeah yeah, so um yeah pretty much right out. I mean well, so I mean I started working for a guide right out of high school. Um. And then let's see, and then I uh, I owned my own I started, I ran, I bought my own outfitting permits and took over an outfit when I was twenty two years old. So that's like from not necessarily guiding, but like owning my own outfit. Um, since I was twenty two and I'm thirty six now, so when you can start guiding as far as a guide or there's an out Okay, so three times the price of the hunt just as a guide. UM. No, you know, I think I think that's that's a really good question. Now if I'm I'm the one going on the hunt, I think ten percent uh um, yeah, you know, I I think it really just depends on um, it depends on a lot of factors. Because it is one of those things it's like you know, I do know, like living off of tips is actually very true um in as a guide. And one of the things is like, you know, there's guides that will bust their ass and do everything they can where do you get something or not? Uh, they really really put in the time, and you're like, man, this guy's this guy is making a dollar an hour, and um, you know'd be awesome to like help this guy out. And then there's guides that you know, I've seen them. I've worked in camps where guides like they just they don't give a rip, you know what I mean, and they should probably get zero percent UM. So I I think kind of a standard and industry standard kind of is around that uh ten percent range um, you know. But it also depends on the price of the hunt, because I think if you book a um like a really expensive sheep hunt, that doesn't necessarily mean that the I mean, the tip is generally more, but it doesn't always. You know, you might have a elk hunt where the guy really just busted his ass and the chip might be five eight hundred dollars, you know, and and then the same type of thing where it's a sheep hunt and you went on one day and doesn't necessarily mean that it's a four thousand dollar tip. Um, it could be sheep GUIDs are like this guy is a um but uh, you know, I think I think it just depends kind of on your experience and a lot of other things. UM yeah. But as as knowing as a guy, I um, I it's definitely appreciated and as an outfitter. That's I mean, it's the background of it is the is the honest truth. Um. You know, I want to make sure that the guys that work for me, and you know, they're all guys that really put it out there. And so when a client comes and they're like, you know, I asked the guys, how how did you get tipped this week? Because if a guy is low, then like when they go, hey, can we come back next year, the answer is like no, sorry, like we're already full. We're about tin know. Um it is it's I was like, if you want the good guides and keep coming back, you want to be the guy that they want to take out. I mean, unfortunate unfortunately. You know, that's just how it is. Oh, what's your favorite You've been my favorite hunt that I've been on. That's a good question, you know. There, I mean there's so many. If I think about there's so many, Like every hunt, I love every hunt. Um, there's man that's like a that's kind of a stumper. I really do love hunting meal dere um. One one hunt that kind of comes to mind as like a hunt that and I told a little bit different hunt in the last group, But mule deer is kind of one of my passions. Early season, mule deer um one of my first bow hunts. I found a buck that I knew would have been an archery world record and it was a giant meal deer. And I hunted that mule deer um for I did my first solo trip. It was thirty days and I was hunting one buck. And I hunted that one buck for over a hundred days over the course of four years. Um. I never killed that buck. Um, I had an opportunity at him. I missed that buck. It's a sad story, but I did. I did actually miss that buck. I I and this was I was just I never had anybody tell me about archery. I knew nothing about archery. There wasn't all this information. I knew nothing about angles and shooting different. It was a fifty five yards shot off a cliff and that buck looked up. I didn't know to aim low. I shot aimed, he jumped the string and that arrow went right over his back. And then that was towards the end of the trip and his friend came out, uh like a smaller buck, the smallest buck in the group. And I thought like to myself, I was like, I just at that point, you like you put in some time. And I said, okay, I'm wanna come off the mountain with a deer. And I shot that deer and it was like a hundred and seventy four by four um, which I was like, that was the smallest buck in that group of ten deers. So it was a pretty good it's a pretty good zone. But I I always remember that that kind of hunting, that experience because I learned a lot about meal deer during that time that I spent um. I really learned to like their habits, their patterns, what early season meal dear do. And I think that by and then I spent the next three years not filling any tags and hunting the entire season, and I never saw that big deer those other two seasons, but I learned so much about hunting and so much about backcountry wilderness survival. Just I mean to go out, put a backpack on and not come back for a month. It is like, I mean, I would do restocks or whatever. But um, that was I just learned a lot about willerness skills and getting bushy and deer and hunting, and I just I feel like those years really probably made me the hunter that I am today. So that was a really cool experience in a and probably one of my most memorable hunts expanned over the course of a few years and interaction with a really incredible buck. Yeah yeah, but your thoughts are on expandable versus Oh, I knew that question was gonna kind of expandables very six blades, I don't know so far. The last the last session, Um, everyone was on my side. I am a fixed blade guy. Uh for a lot of reasons. Um. I like, when I shoot at something, I want my arrow to go through it. It doesn't matter if it's uh grass and elk, it doesn't really matter moose, Like I want I want that arrow to keep going. And I feel like I haven't had I've tried many different expandables and I've I feel like they're very circumstantial. Um, you know, I think I've had them malfunction hard quartering away shots and um, I've also had the malfunction or not go through shoulders. And so I'm the type of person. You know, there's some people might disagree, but you know, I've I've had a lot of experience hunting a lot of different places. And one thing that I've noticed, especially through guiding and for different species around the world, you know, white tailed deer's vitals are a lot different than almost every other animal on the planet. And whether you're talking to guides in Africa, guys in Australia, guys in mid Asia, like they're like guys that white tail hunt a lot shoot things way too far back for almost every other animal because white tail vit. You know, lungs are so large and you can get that, but for most species, you gotta you gotta hug pretty tight to that shoulder to make a really good clean shot. And depending on their body position, and I want that broadhead. That's like, Hey, if I'm the type of guy that hugs close to the shoulder and if I hit something I don't want, I want to make a perfect kill, so I go with fixed blade pretty much percent of the time I have I have messed with expandables when I've got a bow that want tune really good and I know, like of a couple it's like, okay, well I'll use it for this hunt and just be cautious of grass and other things. But for the most part, and I had a lot of places and i'd hope quite often so they aren't actually legal there, so I don't want to have change to set up. But if anyone wants to disagree with me, I'm good with that too. I I see the benefit of the expandables as well, just for flights and aero flight and leaving a pretty big hole. With that being said, what fixed blade broadhead do you shoot? Um? Current So I've currently I've shot the montext for a very long time. UM I like that. I just started messing around a little bit with UM a bunch of different tube blades because just hunting in Australia, quite often we would use tube blades over there for the bigger animals like water buff like buffalo, because you get that a part of it would be like a thick rib or in the same factor, you could go in with the shoulder, if you've got to crack that rib that extra time, that three way, it's a lot of here to break through rib just with that single line than double cracking a rib. So the same kind of philosophy with shoulder blades. If you hit an elk shoulder with a three blad, it's like it's losing that energy. So a two blade will potentially penetrate further. Um. I kind of also like the idea of just like it's a little more back how it was to blade. It was like we we kind of like over I go, I go through and I'm sure a lot of hunters do this, Like you go through this phase of like going and following all the trends and trying all the new stuff, and then you peek and then you're like, I just want to go back to my basics and grab my longbow and grab my you know, two blade swiky broadheads and go kill something because it all works. You know, it's like in the end, you know, it's kind of the same results. So it's a little bit of like personal preference and how you like to hunt and what you see benefiting you. In many cases, like if you're a guy that wants like really loves the flight pattern of your expandable broadhead, and you've had good luck with it, and you're confident in it, and by all means shoot it, you know, because it's it's really for me archery more. It's about the hunting and about what I personally enjoy and so I kind of go through these phases of like this and that and trying different things. But right now I'm pretty sold on just based on you know, kind of getting back to that tube blade I think is and I've I got I've gone tobe blade and four fletching, and I found that it's actually flying. Those arrows are stabilizing really quick, and I'm getting a lot better. It's a lot easier to tune for me. So that's what I found just recently. It's kind of a new change. But um, yeah, cattle, yeah, so cowolke archery, I mean, is it early or what wins this season? Like August? Yeah? Uh, more of like a desert yeah. I think The thing about so that is like when you think about hunting, So I actually kind of think about hunting cows and bulls as they're the same species, but there're two different animals depending on the time of year, the cows are really like the safety net of the herd, and they're actually quite a bit more patternable because that's how they find safety. So they're hurt hurt animals um elk, like you know, their protection is in that herd, and actually the cows, the matriarch of the herd runs that heard up until the rut and the bowl things. He's running up, but it's really going to be a cow. So there's like what happens is you can actually find patterns in what the cows do to find safety, but they also have to do all those things they need to survive, which is the food, the water, and then the shelter. And those cows have that down because they're looking out for all the other cows in that group. So what I like to do anytime I'm hunting something is I think about the big picture, like what do these animals need, what are they doing, how do they stay safe? And then how can I exploit that? In an area you're talking about, it's a little bit drier, so you're like, okay, um, what are those those elk gonna be tied to in that area? So I'm narrowing like anything that I hunt. It's a big picture down to like specific areas, like specific things. So in that particular area it's a little bit drier. Um, So I would actually start my hunt focused on water, and you're gonna find that the cows are going to be the ones that lead the herd to that water. They're gonna be doing it regularly, and there can be a little bit more pattern noble. So I would actually focus on water sources, finding sign and tracks and productive water sources, and then probably sitting water or hunting in and around that like water area because they're gonna be going, especially early season, they're gonna be hitting that water pretty often, and they're gonna be on a better pattern. And so I just exploit that pattern and exploit that weakness. Now, if I was if you're saying a September hunt, um, you know, and maybe like for cow elk in say Colorado, where there's like mountain a mountain hunt or something and it's it's a lot more water than I would probably actually change my tactic and I'd say, well, what's the thing missing here or what do these elk have that um, what's that one thing that might be able to kind of pinch point and figure out what those particular elk are needing at that time and kind of base it on the season and the other things. So for your particular instance, I would definitely focus starting on water and then figuring out that habitat around there where they're living in neither spot and stock that or even sitting water. It's a great, great tactic. Uh yeah, So I will use cow calls for a couple of things. It would be, um, still hunting. I'll always have that cow call with me. This is any time of year from beginning of our three season through the end of rifle season. That call cow call not necessarily to call the animals in, but it like one thing you'll notice is if you spook and elk like as long even sometimes even when you win them when they win you. But for the most part, let's say we're still like, you've got this area figured out. It's thicker, Like that's there's some pretty good PJ in that area, like pinion juniper Country's thick. You might have to do a little bit of still hunting, but you found a water source and you're like, look, they're hitting this at night. You know, it's clear. I like that they aren't coming in here in the day, so you know they're in that area, you might have to still hunt through the timber. I'll just sneak around and like let's say you you bump a bedded cow in the middle of the day. As soon as she takes that first step, stop, they will elk will stop. I would say of the time, if you hit that cow, call right off the bat because their first react is something spooked. But I heard and elk, So it was maybe an elk Because elk are that hurt animal. They're used to sound, and they're used to other animals around. So if they think that that sound that they heard was another animal or another animal is saying, oh it's okay, they'll stop and take a look. And sometimes you can just sit down or wait. They'll calm back down and then you can make a stock in. There's been a lot of times where I've been, you know, a cow hunt or even a bull hunt, bumped something out of the bed that I knew was like, hey, I'm at least I'm hunting into the wind. They didn't win me. Maybe they heard or saw something I hit that and they just think like, oh, that's just another one of us in the herd, they calm back down and you can generally get a shot or you know, be patient and see what else happens. Now, Um, you can also use I've used like that a cow call while hunting cow elk to call them in and and I've done that in like September and other times. Mostly what will end up happening is you're gonna be calling in a calf. So um, that's actually the easiest packing in most delicious of the elk species. So go for it, you know, let it rip like um. But uh, generally like or if you're like, it's not as easy. It depends, like if the herd gets busted up, they should start talking again, and you can't actually call them in with like a more mature cow sound, like a longer drawn out sound. I'll even use that. It seems weird, like more of an estrus wine call outside of the rut. People be like, well, that's just an estrous sound. But I found that, like the elk, the cows really respond to that. I don't know if it's what it is, all just like a more sound and that like draws the curiosity of other cows. So you might be something you want to try. Yes, how did you get choked up with crime? That's not who I normally think of for chills. Oh. Um, that's a good question. I don't know. I uh oh on you're talking on Amazon. Uh that we don't even know how that happened. Um, that's a good I I really don't know. I think it was just we we kind of like we were on the outdoor channel and then we were looking for kind of another home for it just as things went more digital, and um, we had known some people that reached out to us and we're like, hey, we'd love to have this here, and that's kind of how it landed there. Um yep. I know you've covered it in your podcast a couple of times, but East scouting new areas that you've never been to before and additional tips and tactics stopper. Yeah, I think, Um, you know, well, I guess like it's always you know, you can talk really broader, you can talk really specific. So was there like a specific type of terrain or animal in Montana? There's a lot of water too. Yeah, so um eat scouting when it comes to like E scouting, Timber, I'm all about topography, So I learned I mean, like many of it's like started hunting using paper tobo maps and I got really good at reading them, and I started to find places that elk like and started kind of compiling that data of there's certain types of topography that animals prefer. And so what I like to do is all I actually really enjoy hunting elk in the timber and in the way that I find the places that I'm hunting is using essentially its topography. I turn I'll turn the satellite imagery off and I'll just look at the straight topo map and how the terrain underneath those trees is laid out. And so one thing that I mean, one thing specific to elk is you know, like elk do live in some really steep, nasty and early country, but they're super lazy. They love benches. They love those like more flattened out spots. They love those ridges and those finger ridges. So when an elk beds, like they like to bed for safety. But you gotta think also, it's it's it's it's goes back to that herd thing, Like they need a spot where the herd can spread out and everybody's got their eyes, ears and noses out and that tends to work best on a more like flat spot. Now they will sleep bed and some steep gnarly stuff, but for the most part, a lot of their bedding is gonna be find those topography areas where it's super steep, and then you've got that little bit of difference, that one little thing that's different than everything else that lends itself to being good elk habitat. So that steep ridge that kind of flattens out and then goes down, or that big ridge that now has three finger ridges coming off, and then figure out, okay, which way is the wind blow in this area? Um generally the predominant wind, because what an elk is gonna do, or any animal really, they like to bed kind of like if they're on a hill of some kind, they're gonna bed. They're gonna get comfy. They're probably gonna be bedded with their body downhill because if they're bettered with their body up here, they're gonna roll down. So they're like this, They're sitting there and it's really I mean, they can look up, they can look down, but they like the wind at their back. So what I do is I look at the topography and say where's a good bedding area. And then I go, okay, which way is the predominant wind and is there enough covering there that they're out of the sun. And then I go, okay, pain point that because that's where maybe I'll still hunt or start my hunt around that They're gonna end up there at some point in the day. What are they doing outside of that? So now look, I'll go from that topography of like, okay, there, that's a good zone. Then I'll switch to that satellite image and say, okay, now where's the feeding there? Is there is there a small meadow in this area, and go okay, well, they're probably they can either feed it that in the night or the morning. And then here's their betting area. And now I've pinpointed an area to start my hunt. And that's like one of the ways that I like to do that. Another feature that I like to look for is like anything that makes this like don't like a head basin. It doesn't have to be at an actual head basin, but it's like the topographical uh motion of what would look like ahead. So it's it's creating a bowl effect. Now, the reason that's really good is what it does is it. It lends the animals multiple options for safe betting, so because as the wind changes, they might want a different bedding area, so instead of having to go all the way around. So you'll see I mean I've hunted places where it doesn't have that feature and the winds not the predominant way, and you see him feeding and then you watch those elk like it was scenario where you can see real well they will go five miles and go bed on the other side of the mountain where they feel safe. But if you've got that shape like this, what happens is if the wind comes from another direction, they can easily access bedding areas based on the wind without having to move really far from that feed water cover that they're used to, so they can everything is like it's a micro habitat where they can kind of focus in on that. So I look for those because I know that animals, all animals, most animals not anilope um, A lot of animals kind of like gravitate towards those areas, So that's always something that I look for as well. Question for a North Wales, Yeah, yeah, so Northwest Colorado meal here, you know what I'm looking for is similar habitat now that that basin shape is actually like probably more important for mealder than it is for elk um elk or more long ridges, finger ridges in that that slope mule deer, more head basin basin, even though elk will do that in the larger like you find that basin figure better and larger scale for elk and smaller scale and meal dere one thing that I will do too. So I'll find that I'll find those kind of topographical features that I'm looking for, and then I switch back to that satellite mode and I look for um that habitat now for the meal there. So I generally like for me when I'm hunting meal dere, if it's not high country, it's like more mid country. Um. I look for that real sage stuff, UM, a little bit more like high brush and other things where it's like they've got the food, they've got to cover everything kind of close by. And I really tried to key in on that another thing that I really like to do with meal deer, and I found that it works. It really works well for everything. But in country that you can kind of glass and you've got it's a more open country. Um, you know, you might find you'll notice, like anywhere you you'll find deer in a certain certain area. Do you're like, okay, this pocket holds deer in that pocket doesn't. So what I do? I do three things. I first market and I opened up my map, and I look at the topography of that, because I will then take that map and I will look for other topography in the unit that looks exactly like that, and you're gonna find that you're gonna start finding deer in those areas. And there's a lot of reasons behind that. So the first is and it might not be something that you even immediately think of, but there might be some kind of plant or food or something that they like that lends itself to that topography based on the way the sun is, the way the sun hits it, the way the water sheds off the mountain, and then the way that the sun hits it as well. And you know, like so I kind of found this little tactic by accident um one place in Montana where was like, okay, I was finding mulder in these certain uh I guess it would be a it was actually a September. This actually like this north face, but that head basin thing a little bit wetter, you know, a little bit more gradual, so it's like steep then sloped down. So what was happening? The water was coming in, there's this it was kind of seepy in the bottom of that. I'm like, okay, well there's water kind of everywhere. Why here, and started glassing as like a burn area, and then I started noticing it's like, well, what's in this burnia. There's a lot of fire eat and then um, a lot of elderberry. And I realized that elderberry was like crack cocaine for these meal deer and that, and it clicked, and I started looking for those places on the tobomap. I would go there and I'd find that elderberry, and I'd find those mature bucks. And it was just like, and it's only a one two week season a window in September, and I've found more like big meal deer in this archery season during that time in those areas. And so year after year, you know, and then as the water changes, it would change. But I would find where the animals are while I'm out there and then try to replicate it throughout the unit. And that gives you more places to focus in on, and especially when you find we start finding mature deer because there's something that mature deer have, like there there's they live in an area, and it's like there's a reason that I always say, like birds of a feather flock together, you know, if like mature animals maybe in a certain place and they're kind of all together, it's like because they can survive there, they can get the age, they can get whatever. And so by focusing in on what did these deer in this place have and where can I find it other places, it increases the amount of spots that you can go check and have a good likelihood of finding what you're looking for. If that makes sense. Yeah, can you talk a little bit more about Yeah, familiar with the plant? Yea, yeah, so uh elk really so elker grazers and whereas like deer, moose, er browsers, um, they digest their food completely different. Grazers need grass and so some of the best high protein grasses fescue um. So I I really try to focus on those south facing slopes that have that fescue um. It'll be like anytime there's a timber pocket it's like open meadows and sometimes you know it depending on where you're at, you'll be like, oh, here's a meadow, but what kind of grass is in that meadow, because some really wet meadows have grass, but it's not really high forage grass um. So actually sometimes those more drier, higher slopes on the south, on the south facing slope, they get a lot of sun. They actually are really good at holding that rescue and it's a pretty good high protein grass that elk kind of gravitate towards because it's like they get more pound per per month, and so I try to find those areas. It's like open areas, more grass um, and you're gonna find probably more elk in that kind of in that kind of country if it's in where you're at, you know, but primarily focusing on graph it doesn't matter where you are, focus on grass for elk for sure. I appreciate you all tuning in this week. Next week is going to be our final installment of the live Q and A, so you won't want to miss that. I think there's a lot of great questions asked and answered still that you're gonna learn some things from. So make sure to tune in next week and check that out. Also, don't forget to send me your own questions at remy warrant on Instagram is the easiest way to do it, send me a direct message and for future podcasts of Q and A's I'll be using those, but also I'll be using it to kind of drive the discussion and the topics for the next few podcasts in the coming months as we prepare for the season. So until next week, I want you all to keep the on alive. Yes that was alive part to end the podcast. H