00:00:05 Speaker 1: I will not be handed a rod with a fish already on. And I hate that. I hate that. If I were on a sinking boat and I had a Great White on the starboard side and I had a Mako on the port side, I would jump off the side of the Great White. Did you ever try and catch any of the fish in your fish tank when you're a kid? You can't flush because it would be like flushing a metal porcupine. You can run it over with a truck and it'll be fine. Good morning to generate anglers. And welcome to Bend the Fishing podcast that Jess wants you to go to the end of the pulpit so you can give the dink Walleye had just called a little more scale. I'm Joe Surmelie, and I'm hating samac and I have a sneaking suspicion. I guess what's about to happen. Well, look, you kind of set yourself up for it a few weeks ago when I when I said I'm not talking about bull trout and I'm talking about shark and and and what what was perhaps a moment of weakness for you on the show. You said you didn't know what I was talking about that is what you said at the time. Yeah, yeah, I know I did say that, and uh yes, following that episode, I actually there were like four or five folks who like lift me up on the old ins to slam, like just giving me a ship for not instantly recognizing that that was from It was the bull trout thing that threw me off, you know what I mean. And I defended myself and let everyone know that I have in fact, i've seen Jaws. Well I know, I know that you did that, but but I know and I know you is my favorite. Oh god, that's terrible. You did jump on there and and defend yourself and say I have seen it. But it wasn't good enough, was it? No? No, no, and you're an asshole. Uh. There was one guy that said, uh that we need to have a Jaws quiz or something on Ben to test my knowledge. And I mean we talked a little bit earlier, but I think that that's where or this is. You asked me a question that was very like niche Jaws, and I was like, shit, he's lining up a quiz, dude, I absolutely am uh. And that one guy specifically was at Money Mustache and I don't need more than one listener comment to get me to create a Jaws quiz. And I think that this is important, man, right, your reputation is a bit on the line. And I'm not saying you haven't seen Jaws, but around here, like you don't just see Jaws, like you absorb it. You make life decisions around its teachings. It becomes a part of you. So we're gonna We're gonna see, thanks to money mustache, how well you really know Jaws? Fine? Thanks? What do I win if I, like, say, I hit it out of the park? What do I win if you? If you get them all right? All right? I will send you. I will send you a selection of hard baits from our glorious sponsors thirteen Fishing, including one of their locos special jerk bits that I added a hint of customization to. About that. You know, I have pretty much all of th stuff. I want a I want a Jaws inspired articulated streamer deal. That's why I will come up with that. And and one more thing. Getting them all right is a high bar. I need like some leeway, Like what what is like the passing grade here? What is my c plus? I would say, so, all right, So here's what I've done. I've devised four questions and they're they're ranging in in a degree of difficulty. Will start easy and get harder. Um, And I would I would like to say, first of all, I want you to succeed. I want you to ace this. But so you know, there's no inside baseball here. They're not like things that like only like the highest caliber Jaws freak would know happened behind the scenes or anything like that. Like these can all be answered simply by watching the film and paying attention. And I would say, a, I don't know, man, it's only four questions. Three out of four want to fail? That fair? Okay? All right, okay, so here we go. H folks at home, please play along. I'm I'm god, I'm enjoying this so much. This was so fun, alright, question number one? UM. And also, I'm not giving you multiple choice because that might jog your memory. You might just guess, and that's not that's not proof positive that you know the answer to these questions. So you know, maybe take a wild stab if you don't know one. Question number one, tell me on which naval warship did quint serve during World War Two. Um, okay, it was the one that went down by sharks, and that's the origin of his hatreot or. It didn't go down by sharks, but it was the one I think it was in the Pacific Japanese sub slam two torpedoes in the water. Yeah, yeah, I know, I know, I remember it. Um. I wish the people could see you on the computer right now, like he is legit agonizing. There's a beat of sweat. I guess I could give you partial credit. Remember I remember like that, I forget what the ship is called. What is the ship called? Give me? Give me that one? So like if I half asked another one? Okay, I give is the USS Indianapolis? Say, I wish I just knew my naval history better, man, I remember the event I couldn't recall, like the name. Al right. Next question, that was the easy one, all right. How much was Quint charging the mayor to catch and kill the shark? Oh? You got that one? Good on yet that is correct. He'd find it for three kill and catch it and kill it for ten okay, good, alright, alright, doing good, doing good? All right? What specific material did Quint use as a bite leader in his shark rigs that would be the question, man um piano wire, that's correct. It was that a guess. I remembered it. I remembered it being like something obscure, and then I thought, what was like the only thing that would be obscure and that could also be used as a leader, And I thought piano wire. So so there's a talking about inside Baseball. There's the leaded scene where they show him buying spools of it in the local music shop that got cut. But even on the boat, he gives Hooper a hard time when when Hooper says it was a stingray and he says stingray bit through that piano wire. So it is mentioned the film piano wires correct and serious shark guys. After the fact, we're like, that's the dumbest thing. Piano wire sucked. Like that was just you know, completely for you know, drama and spice. Nobody ever really used piano wire. Okay, last one, you're you're you're doing You're doing good. I like it. In the scene Hooper and Brody are dissecting the tiger shark that they thought was the man eater, Hooper pulls a license plate from its stomach. What state is it from? Okay? Well, and it is supposed to be in Massachusetts, right, correct, But I don't think it would be from Massachusetts. M remember where they said it swam up from? Well y New York. I'm saying New York. I don't know. Okay, it was Louisiana sportsman's paradise. Oh, it's a tiger shark, not a white shark. The tiger shark, they said, probably swam up from the Gulf Stream, from southern waters. And you know you can buy those license plates online there. It's it's very cool. That wasn't bad, though, Dude, that wasn't bad. I'm a little I'm more. I'm more depressed about the Indianapolis than the license plate. That was a hard one. You gotta really be paying attention to know the license plate. Yeah, that was pretty good. Yeah. Can I get like a bonus question? I really wanted this streamer. I will tell you what. I will tie you the streamer anyway, just for being a good sport and playing along. Oh thanks, Joe, I appreciate that. That that was. That was pretty fun. Man. All I'm gonna do is cut some yellow foam into the shape of a barrel and superglue it to a hook so it will only take a hot minute. As long as articulated. I don't care, you know. Actually that would be the ultimate. You tie a bunch of little barrels onto and articulate like the whole thing making the chain of barrels. Oh man, you're gonna get me in trouble because now people are gonna be like, you have to do that, and I'm gonna have to spend time doing that. Anyway, that was fun. Uh money munstache, there you go. Okay, it was if we give him a little bit for the first one, but hell, look why not keep the fun and the trivia going. This all rolls beautifully into a trivia segment I recorded a while back. Um pre hating times. That's okay with our good buddy and and Mako Angler extraordinary Conway Bowman and like Jaws, these questions Marry Shark fact with Hollywood Shark Fiction. Started from the bottom. Now we're here, started from the bottom. Now the whole team here, uh joining me today for trivia. My old buddy Conway Bowman is back. What's going on? Man? How are you Joe? I'm doing well? Man, hanging in there. Excellent, excellent. So just to recap, you're a pioneer fly fishing from Mako sharks, guided all over the world, written all kinds of books, been in all kinds of TV shows, And the first time I had you on, we did covering Water, we did the rapid Fire thing, and really got to know who you were. We learned that you don't like large mouth bass, that you love body and point break and um are big. You took black Flag over social distortion, if I remember correctly, and I admired that. So we're gonna do We're gonna do regular trivia today. So this is multiple choice, right, not rapid fire. You can take all the time that you need, sort of bar room style. Um and uh, just so you know that there's there's there's nothing to You can lose some dignity, but you win nothing. I have no prize for you if you if you ace both of these. But um, I think I think, well, I really try to like tailor these questions to my guests, you know, like really drill down on on who you are. So hopefully I I did a good job here. So are you ready to play trivia? All? Right? Here we go we'll do two questions today. Here comes number one. Short fin Mako sharks are one of the fastest sharks in the ocean. As you know, they can also be very aggressive, which has led people to wonder how dangerous they are to humans. The International Shark Attack File or I s a F, is kept up to date by the Florida Museum. So the question is, between the years of fifteen eighty and seventeen, how many unprovoked mako attacks on humans does I s a F have on file? Keep in mind, we're not talking about Marty and already getting bit bringing one into the boat off Montauk. These are completely unprovoked attacks. Is it A three, B ten C one or D six three? Uh? The answer is actually ten. Now I question the accuracy of those distant records. They say this is accurate going back to the late fifteen hundreds, But according to the I s a F ten people have had unprovoked attacks by makos and a whopping four and thirty seven years. So actually, like they're one of even though they're mean looking bastards, they're one of the least dangerous sharks to humans. Well that's really interesting, I think. Um. Uh. The because they inhabit deeper water. If you believe me, if I make a shark inhabited shallower water, right, they would be right. They're they're just really not where people are as part of the deal. They're an open water fish. To be honest with you, if I were on a sinking boat and I had a Great White on the starboard side, and I had a Mako on the port side, and they were a people size, I would jump off the side of the Great White hands down, wow, just because because that was a hot tip right there. If ever that sharks are so crazy, unpredictable, goofy, they are, like, they're right, they're scary. Okay, Well, speaking of having a shark on the starboards side, we'll go on to our next question here we'll keep up with our shark theme. Ready for this one. In the classic rom com Joe versus the Volcano, Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan do a little trolling off the sailboat that's taking them to the island of Wa pony Wou, where you might recall the natives drank nothing but orange soda. Anyway, Hanks only catches one fish during that trolling session, and it's a shark, which kind of shark. Was it a a great white, be a tiger shark, see a black tip? D a hammer head? Hammer head? Did you get Is that a guest or do you know that that's correct? That's correct because that's so Hollywood because it looks cool. It's a well, I'm getting the impression you're not too faglary with Joe Versus the Volcano, where many people are not. Oh, that's a shame. It's not really because it's a shitty movie. But I think it's a shame because I was gonna say, bonus question, what does the hammer head shark do when Hanks hooks it? You wouldn't know that, but it bends its eyes inward to look right at him and it roars, which is very very Hollywood. Um anyway, dude, um No. So that's your your one for two, your one for two. You just got lucky on Joe Versus Volcano. Your homework next time we talk is you have to see that movie and watch all the bonus features if there are any on the Blue Red tonight. I'll be watching with the kids. Are you gonna tell me that I have to watch Joe Versus the Volcano? No? I mean I mean you should, right, it's no turner and hooch, but I do highly recommend it. But no, no, no, no. Knowing knowing Joe versus the volcano inside and out is not a requirement to be my friend. So it's okay, you don't have to you don't have the I don't want to be your friend, man, I don't want to be your friend, at least not for the next twenty five minutes while I'm kicking your ass in that weekly competition we like to call fish news. Fish news. That escalated quickly. So before we get all news, e guess what we are happy to inform you, in case you haven't figured it out already, that there is now a line of new Bent merchandise in the Meat Eaters store. Yes, sir, we've We've been getting asked about that since about a week after this podcast first launch, but anyway, it's finally here. So what have we got. We've got the Degenerate Angler hoodie with the Bent logo over the back shoulder, which I find that to be like very Boston hardcore. I love the placement of the logo on the back shoulder. We've got Degenerate Angler T shirts and we also have a fresh design courtesy of um noted fish tattoo artist Drew Wilson. I'm pretty pumped about. Yeah, it really captures what Ben is all about. I'd say, you know, it's a small amountain in its mouth. It's a broken off streamer and a popper and and alive helgramite. Yeah. Yeah, because like we were kind of like, we don't give a ship. How you fish, That's what we're all about here, Like all are welcome, uh, peace, love and harmony. If you throw flies, poppers and live it on the same day, that's totally cool with us. So that designed from Jews sort of sort of captures the Ben ethos. I would say, I I agree, and uh a Joe before we move on here, man, Um yeah, yeah, we gotta kind of address something. This is sort of serious um at Ben here, Like we like to joke around, and I've realized recently that we've crossed the line with something that we've said. Um, you're making me extremely nervous because I could think of like ten things in the last three episode we at Ben uh continuously joke about how unfun wally or to catch And I gotta say, Joe, I was totally don't apologize that they don't fight. That's the big apology. I stand by Seth and Chester in particular because Man, I was out on the ice the other day and Joe, I caught my first walleye ever through the ice. Congratulations and you'll never forget it. Your arms still hurt, honestly, Man, you know, I was kind of delighted. Man, you know we so first off, it's ridiculous first off, And I mean, I know that may surprise people that I've never caught a walleye. Um. I think that there are a lot of fish that, you know, people would expect folks to catch, and like you're just like kind of like a I don't know, a species that just kind of evades them for like one reason or another. Maybe it was like a lack of interest in going out for maybe it was something you've tried a couple of the more interesting fish swimming in shot. What's what's a fish? Joe? Actually, this would be a good question for our listeners. What is a fish that it seems like everybody but you has caught, well, like like like a fish that you would be expected to catch, but for whatever reason have not, Like maybe like a catfish like a flathead or something like that. Maybe, uh, maybe somebody would expect you to have caught I don't know, pike or something. Do you have one of those, um man, the one that comes to mind. People are always surprised that I've never caught a bourbon. I um, I recently saw my first bourbon being caught, uh two days ago with my buddy Sam longren Um. You know I called bourbon. No, I've just never been on the ice where they are northern Michigan. I've had some invites. I've had some invites. I just haven't gotten there. But don't let's enough about me. I want I want to hear more quickly about why this walleye was so memorable and why you're apologize, Because every time I've caught a walleye through the ice, even a big one, right, you were you using a flasher? Yes, I was, okay, So that's exciting. You see him on the flash, You're like, oh, well there he is, boom, got him And before you can even say got him, his head is coming up through the ice. Every time I did it, well, it's like that's done. Yeah. I mean to me, as a lot of things and fishing tend to be. This was the more of a realization of a long time goal. When I first got into ice fishing, like as a kid, it was on a lake called Lake wall and Pop back in Pennsylvania, and I remember when we were going to visit this lake, my dad told me that there were a wallly in this lake. And up until then, I had primarily fished for where like you know, trout and bass and like sunfish and just ship like that, because that's what was accessible in most of the bodies of water that we had gone to. Up until this point in time. I had never like gone to like a species sort of destination, you know what I mean. Like I'd never like gone somewhere with like the promise of, oh, by the way, there's something that you don't normally come in contact with swimming around on the bottom. So we got into ice fishing that year, and the first goal that I ever had ice fishing was like, I'm gonna set all these tip ups and I'm gonna catch a wall that was like eleven ten years old, and uh, you know, I just never did it, and I ended up not ice fishing very much more because it doesn't seem like we get that much ice in Pennsylvania, you know, as of late anyhow, And um so pulling a wal live through the ice was like ten year old me was real excited about it. And you catch this one on a tip up jagged and I jagged it with a thirteen flashbang no less. Oh nice. Nice. We got a bunch of pictures of it. Um yeah, man, Because I'm no Wally Ice expert, but all the Wally Ice guys that I've hung out with, they're like, tip ups isn't the way to go for wall No, Like you gotta tease them, you gotta make them, you gotta make them want it, you know what I mean. Yeah, And another like kind of like unique challenge out here is that we can't use live bait in the form of shiners or anything like that. So basically all your tip ups are dead sticks. I mean, we do like nightcrawlers for trout, which like move around a little bit, but it's not like the same as you're having a shiner on there. But anyhow, Yeah, I really issue that apologies more of a way to kind of segue into talking about my first walleye And that was pretty great experience and I think my attitude is going to change on them. I kind of do see the appeal of the walleye, particularly when you eat them. Dude, Holy crap, that is a good inating fish. Anybody who's a walle eye through the ice or like the best eating fish man, I think you're probably right. Anyhow, any any fresh water fish for the ice is better eating. I'll give you that much cold water baby, that's where it's at. So cool. So you're a walleye guy, now you could you could just transcribe everything you just said for the fore whatever your book walleye and me by hating samac when that comes out a memoir. Anyway, you've gone on way long enough here. Um, you know, so you're you're patting yourself against those walleyes. Now we're peating ourselves against each other. Let's not forget this is a competition. At the end of this Dog and Pony Show, and while I extravaganza, our mentor colleague and Audio Addonna's Phil Taylor will declare a winner and uh you, sir, have the floor to lead off this week with news. Okay, dook, So this morning we're gonna talk a little bit about hatchery steelhead because I'm sick of talking about how bad it is for wild steelhead in the Pacific Northwest. Oh okay, of course we are going to talk a little bit about that too, of course you are. So this is gonna be a little bit of a non traditional fish news story, as I'm going to kind of touch on a couple of different stories to paint a bigger picture. The overarching theme of this story comes from the news motion who reported on researchers explore new ways to make hatchery steelhead more like wild fish. Now, we all know that hatchery steelhead, uh, they don't spawn even kind of as well as wild steel head. Spawning ability, or the ability to reproduce in general, is known as fecundity. Uh. Now that's one term. There's another term, another f word, if you will, and that is fitness. When fisheries biologists use the term fitness, what they're describing is a hatchery fish's ability to survive and thrive in the wild. So, right, fecundity and fitness speak of wild let's talk about the state of wild steel head. Here are some statistics. Isn't that what you just said you weren't going to talk about I said I was going to touch on it. Here are some statistics, as reported by the Vancouver Sun. In less than forty steel head ran up the Chilco River. UH. In the Thompson River, just two hundred and three steel head were observed returning to spawn. I think that was last year. I'm not sure that. Um. The Vancouver Sun also reports that ten percent of the steelhead population in the Chilcotton River system, and by ten percent, I mean to fish, uh, they ended up in gillnets. It's very, very not good. And that's like that's mostly interior steelhead. But so it makes sense that we're investing in the betterment of these fish hatchery programs not only to increase angler opportunity, but also as a way to eventually boost the numbers of fish that behave as if they were wild and hopefully increase the population to self sustaining numbers. So let's talk about the I'm gonna wait for the end here. I want to hear the conclusion. But I mean what you just said, Like, you know, there's a lot of people listening in the Pacific Northwest who are totally disagreeing with Oh yeah, I mean, I mean sure, and real quick like to touch on that I understand, and like, yeah, I am. I'm of the mind that habitat restoration and like aggressive environmental policy is probably the way to go in order to maintain these wild steel headstocks. And you can look at other examples in wildlife management, like for instance, um, you know, one of our great success stories in American conservation, right is the reintroduction of the wild turkey. And when they first tried to reintroduce the wild turkey, uh, they would raise these pulse you know, in captivity and then they would release them. And you know what would essentially had there was a put in take program, because those wild turkeys wouldn't really develop, you know, populations that could sustain themselves, Like they weren't reproducing in meaningful ways and it's just kind of a waste of time and money. Then what they did was they recaptured a lot of wild wild turkeys in like strongholds like I think in Alabama, like places like that, and then they repopulated their native range with these captured birds. A couple decades later, you know, we got wild turkeys everywhere. So I don't think that like stocking basically stocking a bunch of steelhead is the answer. But then I also don't think that, you know, raising I'm not sure it's entirely analogous, Like just because it didn't work in that instance doesn't mean it won't work in this instance. And you also got to think about the purity of the stocks and the specific strains, and you know, I, I don't know, man, I I think it's like a discussion to be had. I'm not maybe not the one to have a discussion about that. If you know a fisheries biologists in the Pacific Northwest, I talked to him or her. So anyway, all that aside, we're going to try and talk about a an instance where these programs aimed at giving hatchery steelhead wild qualities is like kind of being implemented and and we're so because of that, we're going to talk about the American River in northern coast essentially. Right, it's like, for lack of a better way to put it, they're trying to make better the hatchery fish. Yeah, yeah, that's a good way to put it, right, Okay, So, per the stocking record, the California Department of Fish and Wildlife have already observed over nine hundred fish a mix of wild hatchery bread and juvenile fish entering the hatchery, which is up from just like three hundred fish counted at the same time last year. Now they're siting, Yeah, they're siting higher than average flows as one of the main reasons these fish are having a good year. So earlier we talked about fitness and fecundity. Again we see reduced fecundity of these hatchery fish because they don't have the same fitness as wild steelhead. Basically, hatchery fish going to the ocean get their asses kicked. This returning population of steelhead is a good thing and the reason that it's a good thing is that the American River Fish Hatchery seems to be experimenting with ways to reduce negative consequences associated with hatchery fish and it I guess it appears to be working. Um. According to the c d f W it's California Department Fish and Wildlife Fisheries, biologists at the American River Fish Hatchery are hoping to perpetuate a specific strain of steelhead, and that's the Eel River steelhead, which is it's a it's a larger strain, right, Whereas a lot of these wild fish get up to like, you know, eight ten pounds. These ones kind of tend to top out at fifteen, sixteen, seventeen pounds so they can fight off the giant squids and stuff when they're out. Yeah, yeah, exactly, they were larger and therefore presumably tougher. The American River Fish Hatchery is doing this by selecting fish exclusively of the Eel River strain. Like when they return, they okay, that's a Neel River strain, that's anil River strain, and they're only spawning returning hatchery origin fish, right, so they're kind of going, Okay, this one went out of the ocean, it came back big and strong. That's probably a good one. So they're like, you know, working on selection there. Um. So it's an example of ways that we're trying to use the hatcheries system, or fisheries bologists are trying to use the hatchery system and put a hand in selecting these fish that are gonna have higher levels of fitness and higher levels of fecundity and hopefully, because of that, make a a stronger strain of fish that could one day have self sustaining stocks. So, I mean, is this good news for steelhead on the level of a complete return of a wild run. No, But is it a step in the right direction for hatchery fish looking to create a sustainable population of Steele's Like maybe? Um. Either way, it's a big year for steelhead in the American River. And no matter how you look at it, that's a good thing for anglers. It's it's very interesting and I appreciate what they're doing. And I feel like, no matter how you slice it, you're gonna get a different answer from anglers out there. This is good or this is bad. And you know what, I I fully understand it. I'm not well versed in West coast steel but I will say and I think most anglers would agree. Wild fish are it's cooler, They're sexier. That's always what we want to catch. You love great legs, steel, I love great lakes steel. Are they fun? Hell? Yeah? But like is that as cool as catching a wild No? It's not so, man, It's kind of like, is this is this really? Maybe? Sort of the the best thing we can hope for is building a better hatchery fish based on fish that are going to the ocean. Maybe. But then if I look at it, like if my beloved striped bass all went away, all those wild runs up to Delaware, I mean, everything we have here. If it was just like down to nothing and somebody was like, m, we can create hatchery fish, and and maybe it's hard to say like it. I would say, yes, it's better than nothing, but it would never it would still never be the same. You're still not fixing like the big problem. But that doesn't mean it's not cool science. Like I said, I appreciate what they're doing. Um, there comes a point with like any sort of wildlife management, right where you have to look at what you have and what you can reasonably expect to regain. Right In a lot of cases, you're saying, okay, I would rather have wildfish, and I think everybody would agree with you. There is not a single fisheries a boulogist that would be like, no, we'd rather have hatchery fish, of course, of course. But the question I would pose to them is this, if you could have a strain of wild steel head, because you know, like the Eel River steel head, that's where a lot of these like stocks are coming from. If you could have that strain of steel head preserved in such a way that like they continued to exist, even if the genesis of that was an artificial hatchery condition. If you don't have nothing anyway, why not have that? I completely agree, and I think that's what I'm saying, like, like, it would be foolish to be like stop this madness were wildfish like you, like, these people are doing some cool stuff, and it is there is a preservation tactic there. And again we're not talking about like putting it in uh you know, we're talking about the American River here, and if you don't know, like the American River, it's like it's in Sacramento, you know what I mean. We're not we're not talking about doing it like the you know, the babbying. But it could be a model for that if it ever got to that that. I think, as with so many tools in conservation, I think it can be tailored to like the fishery in which the biologists are discussing, like, is the model for the American River going to be the same model that like you know they take to the Frasier. No, of course it's not gonna be the same model. Well yeah, I will say, like I know, we've got some steelheaders listening right in. Let us know what you think I would. I'd be happy to read some of those responses known to show down the road. Please enter your pass word. You have one unheard message hidden. Where are you? What we were supposed to be at? My parents? Has an hour on my way with the dog. You're out fishing. We need to have a conversation when you get home, because this is getting absolutely ridiculous. Community. At this end of the message, delete press seven save deleted. So I'll move it over here. From fish, we're trying to get more of two fish. We are completely trying to get rid of about that. Uh and and I will I gotta say I was tempted to grab a story for for this week with the following headline. Hamas claims it has captured and Israeli spied dolf and equipped with weapons and capable of assassinating its fighters off of Gaza. Because the image of the dolphin with the spear gun on its head is just straight Austin powers. You know, I have one simple request, and that is to have sharks with freaking later beans attached to their heads. But while I was intriguing, it was just too far off the mark, Like it was just too far off mark. Plus so many of you sent along the catfish story out of Texas. I felt covering it was the right thing to do. So let's go to Texas and learn about um an invasive species that's a real pain in the ask and offers zero benefit to anglers, absolutely none. So we are talking about the sucker mouth armored catfish, otherwise known as plecos in the aquarium trade. And according to the story on Yahoo Knews, a team of researchers from Texas, A and M in Texas State recently pulled four six sucker mouth armored catfish from the San Marcos River quote during a dewatering event at a public park. So scientists are hoping that studying some of the fish collected will help them figure out how best to control them um. The story says, originating from the waters of South America, the sucker mouth is an aquarium fish that was released into the wild and has grown out of control of the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department said. The armored catfish is a long way from home swimming around Texas waterways, but it has thrived anyway to the detriment of the state's natural ecology. Um So now these fish might be commonly labeled as Pleco's at the pet Smart. I don't know if you had these as a kid. I always called them algae eaters. Yeah. I had these as a kid. And um, if you remember a couple of months ago, I told a story about the fish tank that burned your house down almost the fish tank that almost you know, killed my entire family, and uh, there were plecas swing around that thing. Yeah, those are always my favorite ones. Oh see really, because I was gonna say, like if a lot of people had these when they were a kid, and the appeal was they were supposed to eat all the green and brown algae in your tanks, which was great because cleaning fish tank sucks and when you're a kid, a lot of times your tank just goes to complete hell. It's just like, you know, disgusting. But I was gonna say, other than that, like they were I thought they were the most useless, ugly, boring addition to any tank. They don't they don't do anything, man, I see. The appeal to me was like they kind of look like sharky. Yeah, I mean, but I don't know. I thought they were just like an eyesore, like just sucked onto the glass somewhere like they would move overnight once and not again all day. But that's neither here nor that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you ever try and catch any of the fish in your fish tank when you're a kid? No? I never did, And I even had later in life some game fish in the tank. I love feeding them, but no, I never caught them. My brother and I did try and catch that plico once or twice. Yeah, but it was but it was hard, Which is kind of going to tie into the rest of this story, because the thing is, they are apparently indestructible. So according to the piece, and doesn't this sound familiar snakehead lovers, they can breathe out of water for quote at least twenty hours and walk on land. How they would calculate this at roughly two point three miles per hour one of them, Yeah, that's what that's that's what okay? For how long? Like if it can move apparently up to twenty hours, If it can breathe out of water for at least twenty hours and walk two point three I would I have friends that cannot maintain a two point three base. They can get from Center City to the Philly Airport in thirteen point nine minutes. I don't know, um anyway, One of the most common ways they get moved is by birds, because plecos are really easy targets, but they are so sharp and hard and spiky that a bird usually drops them pretty quickly, and assuming they survived the fall, depending on how high up they are um quote, the fish could potentially walk for hours until it finds a body of water that's horrifying. That sucks. They can't swim for more than ten minutes straight, so how they can walk for hours? I don't understand. They're a lazy as fish. Um. Now. While these fish are primarily eating algae and plant matter, they do compete with some native species for food. But the story says they've also taken over in parts of Florida, and they're so many in some places they'll actually swarm manatees to eat the algae off their skin. And there can be so many plecos on on the manateee that it gets severely stressed out like mad manatees stress. So that's clearly an issue. If you're in the manatees story, to tell you when we're off the air in a minute, Okay, fair enough, I do too, kind of now, everybody's gonna be curious. Yeah, mine ends with a cracked transom on a flat skiff anyway. Um So, a bigger issue with the catfish than what they eat is actually how they like to burrow in soft banks, and the people in Texas are worried that's gonna ramp up bank erosion and like destabilized river banks and things more quickly. Uh So, you know invasives never good, right of course, but this one has absolutely no silver lining. And I'm not surprised this happened because those fish, I don't know about yours, but they eventually get big in your tank and they live forever. So whether it outgrows the tank, you just decide to like go to college, and you don't want your tank anymore, like pet stores don't want those things back. Right, you can't flush it because it would be like flushing a metal porkupin Right, you can run it over with a truck and it'll be fine. Um, but in the wild, it's not good for bait. It's nothing you can target. It's just pretty worthless. So my opinion banned them, like, honestly, if they're that much of a problem, we've banned so many other aquarium fish that were much prettier and more interesting, you know what I mean, like hashtags stop the pleco Uh they're stupid fish anyway, So you know, it really is like an interesting thing. Um, it's weird to think that when you're talking about buying like mamillion creatures or like like like a like a servile cat or something like that spider monkey. Yeah, there's so much red tape and like, right of those things finding each other in the wild, even if you were to release them is not particularly high up there. Yet you can buy like all sorts of like invasive fish, and you can buy breathing populations basically of invasive fish. Yep, there could easily find their way into a waterway, and like that's like still totally okay because it's fish, dude, it's underwater. Only certain people care. People in the neighborhood will be worried about a couple of loose spider monkeys. They don't give a ship that there's armored catfish in the pond out there. That's just that's just the reality. That's just the reality. Anyway. Um, Yeah, there you go. Everybody who wrote in thank you for that one armored catfish. Done and done, Let's go to Phil. What does he want swimming in his river? Hatchery steelhead or plecos And after we hear from Phil, we're actually gonna hit end of the line. And this segment is kind of the antithesis of an article I published this week on the Meat Eater site for misconceptions about mousing for trout. About that, so give that a read. And if you decide mousing for trout sounds like too much work, forget that article and pay even closer attention and to the forthcoming end of the line segment. Hey, Hayden, you're the winner this week. I just can't help but feel bad for these hatchery steelhead. I mean, that would be kind of like if a human were to spend most of their formative years playing trombone and video games, and then eventually down the road, maybe they got a job in an office full of self sustaining hunters and outdoors people. I mean, can you imagine what that would do to my, I mean, this person's self esteem. M hm, well that's not loud enough, Burt. If you listen to my last end of the line on Swiss wings, you know I have a soft spot for fishing related nostalgia, So it should come as no surprise that we're going to walk down those familiar back roads again now with a bait. I believe every angler has had an experience with at one point or another. I think everyone knows the smell that musty, sweet, funky odor emanating from pretty much every tackle box you know. It just smells like fishing. I also think that everyone who has used this particular item has had the shared experience where after a day on the water, you walk in and a loved one gives you a kind of amused look, then gets closer and says you have glitter on your face. Of course, I'm talking about power Bait. Now. Power Bait is actually the brand name for a bunch of Berkeley Soft plastic creations, but the forum I'm talking about is known as power Bait Dough. Before we get into power Bait, let's clarify something. Berkeley has been around for a while. The company was founded in seven by a young man named Berkeley Biddell, selling flies in Spirit Lake, Iowa. Let's fast forward it's the mid eighties and Berkeley has since been taken over by Berkeley Baddell's son, Tom, looking out for the next big thing. Tombadel becomes focused on attractings and unless the help of Dr Hermann Clear Cooper, a fisheries biologist from Texas A and M who invents Strike. Berkeley's first scent product, Strike, however, had a major flaw. It was a topical scent product and washed off baits easily. But Dell knew he needed to develop a longer lasting attracting and puts chemist John proc Now and fisheries biologist Dr. Keith Jones up to the task. Through meticulous research, over the span of three years, proc Now and Jones began to develop what become power bait by reverse engineering natural prey, breaking that prey down into basic molecular components and amino acids. To test the palatability of these individual elements, they soak cotton balls in their formulas and fed them to fish in their lab. They soon discovered that no single element was having the effect that they wanted, so they began testing combinations of natural and synthetic compounds. These combinations proved to be more effective, and they eventually landed on an attractive formula we know today as power bait. Power bait comes in many forms, notably it's integrated into Berkeley Soft Plastics. But the form I'm most familiar with is the power bait dough. As any stocker fisherman knows, those pellet has just can't seem to resist that sent and fused plato floating, tantalizing lee just off the bottom. I still remember fishing Salt and Creek with my grandpa and him carefully showing me how to need little corn kernel size balls of this stuff, then how to carefully mold it around my hook. An interesting note about Berkeley power Bait dough. Many folks seem to think it's toxic, and that's not the case. The dough itself is made of a heat treated mixture of PVC powder and oil resin and is completely digestible, although it is very obviously not for human consumption, so please leave leading to the fish. If you've got something on the end of your line that you think belongs on the end of our line, feel free to write into Bent at the meat eater dot com with your suggestions, and if you got a good story about power bait, send that into you know what man. I vividly remember the very first time I ever used power bait for trout. Like I remember hanging out at my grandparents house the night before opening day of the trout season in Jersey, and my grandfather, Um, he'd just gotten back from the bait shop, and you know, he picked up our nightcrawlers and mealies and salmon eggs and he busted out this jar of power bait and said something like, you know, here, here's some here's some new ship. That guy was saying, we'll catch more trout than anything, like super skeptical. Like it was almost like an ad on sale, like the guy got him here. Sorry, you should try this, you know how it works. You know, I honestly don't recall if that O G bottle of orange PB caught trout or not an opening day, but it must have, because like my grandfather was never without it again, you know what I mean, Like from there on out he had power bait, and I even think he kind of phased out salmon eggs in favor of it. So I definitely called fish. I just don't remember if it did the first time out, you know. Yeah. Yeah. The thing that you know, I I mentioned this and the thing but the thing that I think about when I think of power bait is like it was almost like every person used power bait to try and like seam seal the inside of pockets, and they're like old school fishing vests, you know what I mean. Like everything it would be like it just had a way of like crusting in there, and like I just feel like every like cre would be in your zippers, yeah, be everywhere that Yeah, because you would you would get it on your fingers and like wipe it here, and then it would lock into the FACTI I feel like I can smell it right now. But you know, whatever gets your limit right, yeah, oh totally, totally. Well, you know it's perfect that you bring up trout fishing is a little kid, because we've got a question the bent Helpline this week that speaks to any parents or grandparents out there that have a little limit catching machines, like young Joe used to be. What do you laughing at? You're not an idiot, you're not a gamblooning help more, You're a fisherman. What's your emergency? All right? Uh So today on the bent Helpline, we have a question from Evan Taylor, who writes Dear Ben. Let's say I am fishing in a state where human does not need a fishing license until there are fourteen. That's an interesting way to say a kid. It's a very interesting way to put it. Yeah, and let's say I like how this all like framed and hypothetical. And let's say the daily limit for bluegill and said state is twenty five for easy math per day. If I have my kids who are seven and five out fishing, does that mean my cooler could theoretically have seventy five blue gill in it? Or is the limit twenty five because I am the only one who paid for a license. Now, of course, anyone who's fished with kids, no, you're never going to limit with them along. But SI signed Evan Taylor. M hmm, you got any thoughts on that? Because I do you know what, man, I don't have kids. This is something that has never come up for me. I'm gonna let you deal with this one entirely. I'm just gonna sit back and listen. Yeah, And dear God, I hope I'm not giving out wrong information here. But my understanding has always been that if that basically legal is legal. In other words, if you don't need a license within your state till your fourteen. I think in some states it's it's fifteen, maybe thirteen, it varies. But point being, if you are not of legal age for a license, you are still legal in the state's eyes to be out fishing. So just thinking back to when I was growing up and you know, fishing with my dad, Like on opening day at trout, I would have my stringer and he would have his stringer. You know what I mean? Um, you know, I yes, I in theoretically you know now where where it gets gray is Um, I I've I've I've seen instances where you know, the kids aren't really fishing too hard, Dad puts his twelve on the stringer. That's shitty, Like that's that's that's sort of Also that um you know, gets into that argument of like when your saltwater fishing, is it cool for the captain to keep his limit for the day too if you want to bring home more whatever fluke or salmon on the Great Lakes? But I think I mean, if you're if your aim is true and your heart is pure, okay, and um you you really you really want your seventy five blue gills or whatever, and your kids are legit catching them. Um. Yeah, legally, I think absolutely, your your child is legal to fish and pretty sure that the same limits would would apply there. Yeah. Um, now, what if you were hooking the fish and the kids were reeling them in? And I have a follow up question of this you have? But see, now you're getting into semantics like that's the that's the problem with this, like is it? Let me ask you this, Let me ask you this. Here's the follow up. What is the difference between that and being on a charter fishing where the first mate is the one hooking all the fish and you're just reeling them in and gripping, grinning with them. Plenty of people do that and keep well, sure they do. But but again, man like, so in that scenario, if you're out on a charter boat, right, and uh, I mean, first of all, if I'm on a charter boat where the maid is hooking the fishing hand, he's gonna that is like a pet peeve of mine. I will not take a a rod. I will not take I will not be handed a rock. I got you. God, I hate that, right, I hate that. But I would say, um, you know, if you're if you're newbies, rookies, you booked a charter somewhere, you know, and the maids setting the hook on the troll or whatever it may be on it doesn't matter, on the bottom, and he's handing you the rod and you're okay with that, like that doesn't bother you. As long as you're only taking your limit as the angler, then what's the difference? You know what I'm saying. But what I'm comparing that too is like the kid on opening day where his dad is hooking the trout and like letting him reel the trout in. Now you kind of implied that you didn't think like maybe that was so cool. No, no, no no, no, you're misunderstanding completely. What I'm saying is, no, you are misunderstanding what I'm saying. What I'm saying is there's I think there's a little more leeway in taking your kid fishing and your kids standing there fishing with you in the water wade and sitting in the lawn chair whatever, and maybe he's too little, so you hook one and handing the rod. I mean, this is something I never have to worry about because I'm I don't care about keeping a limit right now of anything that my young kids would catch. Like we're not doing that right, so that that that's one thing what I'm saying is you go fishing, you bring your kid, Your kids off running around in the woods, are looking for fairies, flipping rocks and completely unengaged in what you're doing. But you're going to keep his or her six trout to if you're using them as a body, so that if somebody flagged you, you'd be like, well, I caught these six, and a little timmy here caught the other six. You know. But it's I mean, it's it's getting in the it's ultimately getting in the weeds, you know. It's it's it's about you. It's about effort. If you put in the effort, then it's like whatever. If you're using them is like a justification to keep you know, X amount of fish without the expectation that they're going to be actively involved in catching said fish, then that's what you don't like. Yeah, I mean, all all Evans question really spoke to more was the legality of it. Can I keep that a limit? You know? Again, my two kids, I hope Evans not like rounding up all the kids in the neighborhood. I'm taking them all fishing. I don't know what the guy's m O is, right, we can't. We don't read minds. I'm sure that's not it. It's actually it's it's a good question, you know. Yeah. And if he's a listener to Ben, I'm sure that he is just an upstanding member of society. Or he could be a degenerate angler. Degenerate angler, you don't know, but yeah, listen, I just just to sort of cover our asses. Maybe this varies in different states. I'm not sure, but I mean I I hold licenses in multiple states every year for freshwater. You know, grew up traveling fish and fished all over. I've never heard of such a thing where, you know, a legal a legal unlicensed angler, meaning a little kid I couldn't keep fishing, couldn't couldn't keep their fish or keep their limits. Yeah, no rules there, it sounds right. Well. Anyway, that's a great question, Evan, Thank you very much for sending it into Ben. If you have questions yourself, you can send him to either Joe on his Instagram, you can send them to me on my Instagram. You can send him into the bent inbox at bent at the Meat Eater dot com. Um and yeah, send your question via text, send in a voice memo. We like those and you could hear yourself. You're texting them to my number? Did you give out your number? Who did you text them to? You said, send him in via text? Did you give out your number publicly? Yeah? My number five F five I meant in in a text based format. Yeah. Yeah. Look, send your questions in and we'll do our best to answer him on the Bent helpline. So that's it for this week. Remember if you're taking the kids out with the power bait looking for your makeo limbit, if it roars, set it free. Also, please please keep those sale band items, awkward photos, helpline questions, bar nominations, and all that good stuff coming to Bent at the Meat Eater dot com. Yeah, and keep using those Bent podcasts and degenerate angler hashtags. And for the love of God, please stop suggesting quizzes for me. No, no, keep suggesting them. What other movies should we quiz? Haden on Perfect Storm, Mighty Ducks, Open Everything. Yeah, I'm open to everything except Half Baked, because that would just be too easy. He