00:00:14 Speaker 1: My name is Clay and Nucleman. This is a production of the bear Grease podcast called the bear Grease Render where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast presented by f HF Gear, American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. Guys, We've got an exclusive bear Grease discount code for f h F Gear that's fish Hunt Fight Gear. I've been using their products for the last year and I love carrying my gear in a chest rig or my binos in their bino arness. It's easier and more accessible than a backpack and it doesn't get in the way when I'm riding my mule. For a limited time, you can head over to f h F gear dot com forward slash bear Grease and listeners to this yere podcast get a discount on purchases for your f h F Gear system and you can see how I build my gear system. So go to f h F gear dot com forward slash bear Grease for a special code. If you're buying stuff from f h F Gear, check it out fish Hunt Fight f h F Gear say that again, I think we should make a podcast that's dichrontal Render participants because there's a growing number. Is there is there strife on the team, Well, classic clueless leadership strife on the team. Well, is a fat dog you have? We're barely hanging on. Just say, there's been some meetings in private players only meeting cover. We're just forming a union. We've ununized. He speaking, Welcome to the bear Groose Render. Speaking of the render, what do you guys think at the last render when we got booted out without notice? What time? It's stung a little, it's stung, taken a whole week off. This is a safe place. Okay, we're gonna talk about what's on our hearts. Okay. It's kind of like watching your kids go to family Christmas somewhere else and hey, listen, I had I had some very I had some very good feedback from uh from that one. And then I had also some guys that were like, never let those guys on there again. Bring back the guys we love. And that was you guys, It was we really like those guys there. I listened to a lot of it. It was nice of them to fill in. I'll say that we'll see. What people don't understand is that when you're in show biz, you gotta do what show biz has to do. We had been hunting and we had to make a render, and that that was part of the plan from the beginning is at different times we would have a full new crew, well like if I was somewhere in a camp and I would just fill it in. So it was. It was super fund it and five minutes into it, I thought, this is Clay's fault, because clearly you had made them so uncomfortable that they, hey, okay, we had been really I guess we had been pounding the dirt for days days and uh and we we really were tired. But it was it was great. It was great Mark, and having all the guys on there was fun. I had a lot of people say they really liked it. But it's great to have everybody back. Hey, let me do uh, let me let me do. Introductions. Josh Spillmaker, Josh Landbridge spillmaker to my left. Good to see Josh. It's good to be seen. Honestly. Hey, we're gonna play some music later, like real live music, and you're a part of it. Hey, we have one guest and I'm gonna come back to him as is our as is our custom. To Josh's left, Dr Daniel Rupe. Everybody, Hey, Dan Rupe has been killing some deer. Did you know that, Dad? Yeah, he's He's killed two deer in our meetings. We talked several things between Dan and I hope. Well, congrats on the deer. So this is your first year bow hunting in a while though, first year bo hunt probably twelve or thirty. Really, yeah, I knew about one of them. I didn't know about the other one I got. I got a little dough the other night, about four nights ago. I almost took all out here driving up here tonight. Really, yeah, don't we just so the freezers as of tonight we just this afternoon week. It's a big deal to kill a deer with a bow man. I'm so thankful. It's been really fun. I've got a good friend of mine gives me a little spot to hunt on, and yeah, just wonderful. That's awesome. Yeah, that's really good. It's hard to find a good friend. To Dan's left, it's been a while since you've been here in a while. It's been probably four or five weeks. You know there's been a couple of Gary Newcomb for president campaigns going on. Did you were you were of this? I wasn't you know. I've applied for unemployment but didn't work. It didn't work for president. I'll put a sticker on my car. Have you done any hunting none? You know. I've been shooting my bow. I got my equipment ready, I've got my scent lock ready to go. But when I get up in the morning, I think, why am I doing this? Man? And so you don't go, huh, you just stay home? Yeah, but I really have plans of killing the monster buck this year. Good. Did you hear the shout out that you got from Mark Kenyon? No? I mean yeah, okay, So so my dad Gary nucolemb and Mark Kenyon whose meat eaters white Tail Guru, his his his podcast and what he does is is branded Underwired to Hunt, and he has one of the top white tailed podcasts in the country, if not the top white tail podcast. So me and Mark always have this fun thing going where he is like a guru. He's like a he's like a gear nerd in tactics. I mean like his his mind is like a like a gearbox. When it comes to all this stuff. What Mark wouldn't know is that my mind used to be that way, and I was liberated in my mind used to be that way because Gary Newcom's mind is that way. And so I grew up under the white Tailed Jedi Master, Ultimate sent Control, Ultimate tree Stands, set up, Ultimate gear Guy, Ultimate bow Tinker. I mean all that leftover stuff from years ago. Yeah, and then Dad gave a bunch stuff to Josh. Josh stole a lot of that stuff. I didn't flashlight. I admit I stole the flashlight for six years, but I gave it give back six years. So Dad used to be what still is, big time in the gear and and Dad and I have talked about this private least we've worked through this. But that kind of impacted me into not really liking gear. Gears like gears, like gears like uh, necessary evil, You're like the prodigal son. Maybe. So I said all that to say Mark and Dad got along great. Yeah. Yeah, I thought a lot of Mark. That whole crew was just extremely nice. I mean I just enjoyed every one of those guys. Yeah. Yeah. By the way, Mark said he might get me a piece of gear. Oh, yeah, and he said, if I don't get it, to tell you, okay, So Mark, I need to tell Mark to get you some gear. So the way this, the way this worked is we hunted down around where Dad lives for a film that you'll see one day through Meat Eater of Mark hunting public land down in the mountains. So I didn't even tell Mom and Dad too many specifics about when we were gonna be down in their hometown because we weren't gonna have time to go see him. So I didn't want them to think much about us be in there. So we go there Dan and at like eight o'clock we were delayed. It was like eight o'clock at night, and we were about to have to go out in the woods and set up our full camp and in camp in the dark, and then break it all down and go hike back in at daylight. And so I said, you know what, I bet we could stay with Juju. And so I called my mom and I was like, what are you doing, Juju? And she's like, oh, we're just you know, getting ready for bad or whatever. She said. You know, I was like, how would you feel about six of us coming and stay in the night with you right now, And she said the prodigal son. She said, what do you think the calf? What would a southern mom say if that happened? Well, come on, okay, well she said that. She expressed some worries to have y'all eaten. Yes, I don't have any food. I hadn't cooked, play stuff like that. And I was like, Juji, we're we've already eaten, We're full. We don't need any food. I don't have any food. Juju, we don't need any food. We're not hungry, don't but I just don't have much food. Juju, we don't need any food. Did she have food when you got there? Anyway? She had a little bit, she did. She scratched so much. Is she talking about the house being a mess? Okay? I wasn't gonna say, but yeah, she's like, yep, she's like, the house is a mess. And the house was perfectly clean. And so we went over and stayed with mom and dad. It was it was a lot of fun. Oh yeah, it was nice. We really enjoyed it. And then we stayed on the tail end of the trip to five days later. Yeah. Yeah, we came back and stayed at night and all the guys just loved Mom and Dad had a good times. We actually recorded the Render at their house, taking to his spirits one time. Oh really you've been down it? Yeah, yeah, years ago. Well i've been down there. I'll go down to see Gary. Okay, we're but friends with Mark Kenyon. Mark and I go way back. I've never bet um marks like the sun I never had. Hey, we've got it. We've got a great podcast. I'm very excited about this. We're going to talk about the third and final kind of Southwest themed podcast. So this podcast was not just about Warner Glenn. It was about the Borderland's Jaguar. We're gonna that's where we're going. So if you're new to the Render, which there's a lot of people that might be new to this. We produce a documentary style podcast. I haven't introduced our guests. Goodness gracious, you know. Okay, I've got to finish what I was gonna say and then we'll come back. So the bear Grease Podcast is a documentary style podcast that we you know, just put a ton of energy and effort into. The bear Grease Render is this informal gathering of p literally we talk about we we So this is the Bear Grease render you're listening to. Okay, to Gary's left, my lovely wife, Missy Newcomb always good to be here? Yeah, good to be here? Great. Okay. Our mystery guest is my long time friend. We go to church together. We're neighbors. Tyrell Dennison. Welcome toy Ay you glad to be here. Man, this is uh. I knew this day would come that you would be on the render. It's nice to be here. I'm glad has gotten has been pretty instrumental in my world, career world. He really was. Ty was the one who, like seven years ago, did you know this, Josh? We were producing that bare Horizon video for for Bear Hunting Magazine. If people have not watched, they should go back and watch because man, I'm embarrassed with some of that stuff. I love it. I still watch videos some really good content. Well, so we were producing bare Horizon videos, that's what we call it. I think we started thought it was fantastic. What are you talking about? Yeah? Some of it was good, um and better than a couple of renders of her, So listen, listen Dan. Then we just had him on like video and like embedded him on our website. That's what I didn't even know what video was then. That's that's what you did back in those days. But I mean, I didn't know what video was until he said, hey, you can watch these videos. Okay, yeah, it's just a way to implant a video on a on a web page. Well then Ty one day walked up to me and said, Clay, you need to put your videos on YouTube. And I was like, nah. I mean this was like, is like seven years ago. So I was like, man, YouTube is for like cell phone videos and low quality content, and I said, not anymore. He said, he said, this is the direction that the market's going. You gotta put your stuff on YouTube. And he was adamant about it. And I did it, and within like a month, I had a viral video on YouTube. It was when that bear touched my arrow and that video jump started the Bear Hunting Magazine YouTube channel, which built it out. Anyway, so tid Innison has been influential and tis always really good at giving me feedback. One and I barely understand YouTube, Like I'm not someone who's like following YouTuber. Like the fact that people can just create content on YouTube like in their rooms. Still like breaks my brain. I'm just like, I don't know how people make millions on YouTube, But I had seen enough quality content in like my areas of interest where I knew like, oh, there's there's stuff here besides just guys with their with their webcam talking about what's been going on on the internet these days amongst the kiddos. And it's like, there's actually some really nice stuff around here. Yeah, and so it's just like, man, it it'll it'll get out there and people will share it for sure. And so and yeah, I was glad to hear that it took off because it was it was good stuff you need to get out there. It still is, Yeah, nothing to be ashamed of on that YouTube channel. Well, I've learned inside of media is that you do stuff and then you go back and look at it and it's like a different version of who you are and you're kind of But no, there's there's some there's some real good bear hunts on. There's some good white tail hunts too. Speaking of white tail hunts, I have something I want to show you guys. I have a little something to show you boys. Oh look at that Look at that guy, look at that sucker, that is a skull, a non typical skull. This is so this. By the time this render comes out, I will have put this picture on YouTube, the YouTube on the Instagram. This deer was walking around about twenty six hours ago. I killed that deer in Oklahoma yesterday. This is the one you've you were going after for days. No negative negative. There was a different one that was a different buck. This this was This is the first time I hunted this property in Oklahoma. So let me tell you what we've been doing for the last seven days. Mark Kenyon, Spencer, New Hearth, Tony Peterson, and myself have been hunting. We're basically Meat Eater is making a white tail series that's gonna come out like in two weeks. We're going to produce a bunch of episodes that document our hunts. And we were hunting in four different states. Were actually hunted in I think six different states between the four of us in the last week. In the last week, Yeah, I killed that deer on the last day of the hunt. Man. Who can describe that rack to somebody? It's the one side is really clean and it just has a typical five point typical five points side. The other side looks like something out of a sci fi fantasy movie. Yeah, well actually doesn't. Let's a live measuring of that time. How long is that spike? So basically it has one very clean, typical five point side. The left side is just a spike of one to three four or five six points, and the two bottom ones are are like horizontal. Yeah, that from the base fourteen and a half inches thirteen and a quarter inches, that's thirteen and a quarter Would that be the main beam? You know, it would be a judgment called that would probably say it's the main beam, but okay, and then this would be like the brow time. Right here, we'll go from the burr. That's about twelve inches. So you're gonna see pictures this on Instagram and on Instagram it looks like a hundred It's it's not that big. It's a This was a three year old deer. I don't even know what filter you used to make the deer look bigger. It was just it's just pictures make deer look about twenty inches bigger than they are. They just always do. But app called Antler me, Hey that's a good looking deer. I mean I was expecting it to be less than that. Based on what you said, I'm I'm very impressed with that animal. Man. It was a big it was a big body deer and all he came in. We had hunted seven days and I never even saw a buck. I would have shot in seven full days of hunting and good places. I hunted three and a half days in Arkansas, three and a half days in southeast Oklahoma, and Uh, I hunted with my friend Alvin Grigg, who he and he and his wife like a week ago. I got they he heard what I was trying to do, and he said, hey, come hunt our place. Super generous and that I went down there and they rolled the red carpet for me, And he hadn't hunted much out there, so he didn't really know the you know, he hadn't been out there much this year, and but he knew the good pinch points on this property and um and anyway, I killed that deer after three days and we hadn't seen very many deer until this deer came in. But man, he marched in just like on a mission, and UH shot him about twenty two yards just afternoon, hit him far back. Dad. I told Alvin, I said, when I was a boy learning how to bow hunt. Well, you know what I told I told him when we were young, you preached us not to hit him in the shoulder. And to this day I'm I'm over forty years old, and I if I hit a deer a little off, it's slightly back. I've killed a lot of deer with a liver shot, and it's because I have deep and deeply ingrained into my default substructure of action is to aim far back from the shoulder, which produces a liver shot. Deer liver shot, Dere's no big deal. You just give him two plus hours, sometimes longer longer. And but that deer around d twenty yards and was dead as a hammer. It bled very little, though, because it was a broadside shot and we were hunting these little post oak trees in southeast Oklahoma, and so we couldn't get up very high, and the deer was slightly kind of up a little bit of a grade. So I was almost shooting like straight at it. And so the area went in. The entry and exit were at the same level, and so by the time he filled up with blood that it just didn't bleed much. That's how it stuck in that tree almost flat. That photo that you put on I guess Facebook, And there's your arrows sticking in the tree. What it was that negative just shot a tree. The arrow was not sticking in the tree. I just held the arrow out. I was just holding the arrow. You may want to look at that again. No, oh, my goodness. Was it was fading? Was it? What was it doing? Okay, so I'll tell you the whole I'll tell you the whole story. It was a pinch point on the back of a big field corner where the deer come through. They were they were they were coming through the back side of that corner and they were feeding. I mean, it's just it's just the way we hunt down. That's the only buck that you saw. There was. There was one other eight point buck that I would have shot. It's it's too long a story, and you'll hear it in the video when when we played the hunt. But I spooked a buck that was tending the dough when we came in there at like two o'clock in the afternoon. So anyway, it was a good hunt. There were multiple deer killed. I think I can say this between the four of us, there were five bucks killed in seven days. Yeah, so it be a lot of action. You know, if I'm listening to this, I want to know what kind of bow you were shooting, what kind of air, what kind of broadhead were you know, saddle were you know, you know, what were you hunting out of? Uh? Yeah, I'd like to know that. Okay, even though I know most of it you were in it. Well, I I was in a a new tethered saddle. We we hunted in those things all week long. I mean we we made multiple all day sits in a tethered saddle. Now, forgive me, I'm not moved into the saddle realm yet. Are all saddles tethered or is a brand? There? They are multiple brands of saddles. Tethered is a brand, and they as I understand that, we're kind of they were kind of they were kind of the leader that kind of reintroduced saddle hunting to the world. Saddle hunting used to I mean people have saddle hunted for a long time, but used to it was kind of this. It was it was just kind of like this quirky thing that you know, you're weird neighbor didn't limited your ability to shoot a bow? It makes it better. I think it does. I mean, just you have more radius around that tree. You can almost shoot. If it was just a perfectly straight tree, you could you could pretty much shoot three d sixty degrees around that tree, probably three forty. There's probably a little window, but you can spin all the way around the tree. And you just have to get comfortable kind of hanging off of it. But it it. I mean I I just put on a saddle and went hunting and was fine. So it's not like you have to practice a ton, but you do have to get used to it. You have to get used to kind of hanging and just how it works and getting making it comfortable. And you're not scooting up like you are in a climber, Like how are you getting up there? So you gotta use you gotta use sticks, or you have to have a method of getting up a tree. So you still have to get up a tree. That what it does is eliminates you having to have multiple tree stands, and it eliminates you having to go in and hang a stand like the day before, or you know, you're carrying in something real heavy. You carry a saddle and some sticks, but it's you know, it sounds magical, but you know, you it's hard to climb a tree, no matter what you're doing. Humans weren't made in climb tree is very good. It's hard to climb a tree. It's pretty wiry, aren't you to clubs? I mean, twelve year old meat that I was pretty well suited for it. I did it quite a bit. Yeah. And do you have a like a traditional safety harness on as well? That's your safety. You can't you can't come out of it, you know, I don't know. The older I get, the more nervous I get. I want to be up high. I love being up high. I get nervous when I'm up there. Yeah, I like being up high. But inevitably, inevitably, when I get twenty feet up in a tree, I'm gonna drop something. You drop it, and then I'm gonna go back down, and then I gotta go back up. So sixteen ft feet is the sweet spot. Sixteen returns after that? How high do you like to get? You know? And and you know, when I was younger, I love to hunt at twenty four, you know, I think that if you do, if you do twenty to twenty four and you do a little bit of cent control, you can get away with lots of stuff. When you get down fifteen sixteen seventeen. I mean, you gotta be playing a win all the time. Time. You've gotta be real cautious. You get twenty four, you don't even have to turn the volume down on your YouTube videos. That's right, That's right. But I mean that's been my experience. Yeah. And this guy that we've talked about that has killed so many big bucks in another state, I mean he likes to hunt it thirty ft I didn't have to get yeah right, yeah, yeah, I mean thirty thirty ft. You know he loves to talk about scentlock and how good it is. Well, it's you can at thirty feet. He can eat a pizza. Yeah, yeah, I mean, so I love this guy. He hunts kind of the way I hunt, except he successful. And I'm not to take a cup of coffee up there with but uh, you know, when he tells me what he does, I mean there's a lot. There's a lot of stuff I do. And he likes to hunt food like I like to hunt. And he's better at betting areas. He's really good. That's that's the real key to seems to be right now is to on how to get in bedding areas and the edge of betting areas. And I've never been too good at that. Well, this is part of the world that we live in is so thick. There's betting could be everywhere. A lot of the places these guys are hunting. It's just so different than here. I mean, it's agricultural fields, big open timber in the thickets or the crp. It's very defined and it's like the dear bed here. They feed here, and that is just not the way it is. And those are gonna wash toll mountains at all. It's just not so. But you're shooting the prime boat, Yeah, shooting the prime A prime six. I'm shooting uh G five dead meat broad heads. I like them. They fly good. As an expandable head. I used for for years I was fixed blade hardcore. This year I started shooting those and and they shoot good. You told me fifteen years ago to only use expandable that he that was I remember he was that was back in the day and then he went all See. When I met Clay and started hunting with him, he was all fixed blade. So he taught me out of expandables, and now he's back to expand the season. It's like, it's like, why don't we go through all the places where I flip flopped in my life? According to all you guys eyes, No, no, my buddy, my buddy Chris Roberts. When he first started hunting with me, Dad, I was hardcore, sent control, you know, keep your clothes and plastic bags, use bacon, soda, use you know before I know, I know, you know not. Don't put on your clothes in your truck. I mean hardcore. I can't I you do not do that anymore? How many times I wrote you did this morning. We don't want to have this conversation. I wrote in Gary Newcome's jeep for years in my underwear to the stand that was just that was just a practical job. That was yeah, believe well, I really I don't know that this is a place the platform for this debate. But I basically going back to what or what I said about Dad, like he Dad was just methodical with everything he did, and that's the reason he was good a good bow hunter. He's still around off this, I uh no about twelve thirteen, fifteen years ago, about the time man you didn't hunt and we're off away. I I just scratched all sin control, all sink control, and went straight up woodsman Josh Spillmaker. And uh turns out I kill more dear now than I did then. I don't I don't know if it's a spurious correlation, meaning a correlation that's really not connected. Maybe I've gotten better places to hunt, maybe I've got here. Doesn't mean we don't know what a correlation is. Clay, Yeah, yeah, up. Now you say it's just just just just hunting the wind. Like, if there's a south wind, you're hunt in a place where the deer gonna be north of you. It's just that simple. If there's a north wind, you're hunting the place where the deer gonna be south of you, and you just play the wind. Because what what I found was I would I would do my sent control to the to the highest level that I was possible, that was possible for me and my skill set to do, and I'd go hunting and deer would still smell me. So I was like, why am iote devoting my whole life to this? And now Dad, you tell them why you do it? Though? Because there's a good argument for scent control. Using scent control stuff, I like to say that it's a hoax and it is the biggest way for outdoor companies to sell you a product that you have no way of knowing if it works or not because you can't smell that good with your nose. It's the perfect it's a good business to be in. I mean, it's just true. I mean it's like I'm gonna sell you a product and you don't know if it works or not, and most of the time it doesn't because you're in sent control and deer still smell you. But you see what I'm saying. You know, baking soda works, and you know if you wash your clothes and laundry detergent, I mean, you know you're putting all kinds of You know, I've got some soap that's unscented and it smells less scented than my scented soap. Okay, let me tell you something. I will. You're you're worried about your clothes, the deer worried about your soul. Since when do you don't care about Listen? I don't even know who you are. Listen to this. Listen to this, Listen this a deer isn't scared of your shirt, is scared of you, and you smell like a human, So it would essentially be like putting, so you're trying to wash the human off of you. It would be essentially like taking a burlap sack and filling it full of cow dung and then being worried about the burlap sack like sent control on the burlap side. It's like, you're not that burlap sack is not gonna see Okay, okay, what if? What if instead of trying to wash the sent off, I just go like a full on fourteen year old boy and just blast myself with ax body spree. You can't smell the human for all the ax body sprea. Like this is cover that, yeah, cover set instead of this, we go cover set chocolate as now I do. I do believe in some cover sense. I've seen some cover sense that worked pretty good or confused or or slow deer's spook response down to this day. Every hunt this week, I try it out some new stuff, this Dan Fitzgerald, dear Dander, and I would I would pour it out on the ground underneath my stand so that when deer cut my wind, they would smell human, but they would also smell an attractant, a deer related attractant and synthetic stuff. And uh, I have seen that slow a deer's spook response down enough, and I've seen him walk through it to not necessarily with this stuff that I didn't see. It happened this week. Okay, So I've seen it work with dough estris back when we could use real dough estris and even the synthetic stuff. I've had a dough come directly down when I had poured a big swab of dough estris onto the ground. So my that dough sent strong, unnaturally strong dose sents on the ground. A deer cuts my wind. The dough just locks up and just goes into Holy cow, what's happening. I smell a human, but then she's like and I smell a deer and kind of freaks out for a while and then moves on through past your scenter. I've seen it happen. Not common most of the time they spook. I want to hear, that's the whole thing. I'm not. What I'm saying is not the whole truth. I know that. Let's hear. Why would you use sent control tell me what it would work if you're a terrible hunter. Is the reason I'm being honest with you. I mean, when I first started hunting, I really didn't even hardly know what a deer track looked like, you know, I just knew. Some guys told me about it, taught me how to shoot a bowl. They couldn't kill deer. So I looked at it like a chess game. I thought, this is gonna be like a chess game. And I thought, you know, I've gotta be clean. I gotta be able to shoot my bowl. But as time went on, I saw a very few deer that I spooked. I mean, I cannot. I had a big ten point. Then I knew where my win was going, and he came under my standing. By the way I was asleep, I was sound asleep, and I looked open. One eye had ever find me as I looked at it, and so I knew he was going straight into my wind. I mean, so I'm not a stupid about wind and about cent, and I knew he was gonna he was gonna spook in a minute, because I had a doge come in and hit my wind and I was only about eighteen feet up but anyway, if you're twenty to twenty four feet and you're in pretty flat ground, you can get away with lots of stuff. And usually when you're hunting big bucks, you don't know which way they're coming from. I mean, you think you know, but they'll surprise you. So why not be clean. If you've got the energy and the time and the desire to do it, maybe it'll work. Well, it wore, it will help. And if you listen to John, he says, if you're wearing a beard, you've got long hair, forget it. Go hunt however you want to, because it don't work. I would love to debate that guy. Hey, no, don't even say that, Clay. I mean, I mean this guy has killed. This guy is one of the best hunters in the stinking country. And I mean if you hunt thirty feet up, well, I mean, hey, you're you'd be taken on the wrong bulldog with this guy. I'm telling you, he knows his stuff. Now you know, you don't have to you don't have to do all this stuff, but it sure doesn't hurt anything, and a lot of times it helps. It's just it's just part of my Bailey wick. And yeah, I mean you can, you can go at it. So there's so many ways to skin a cat. Well, my my deal was I realized that I was spending you know, you only have so much energy in your life to spend towards hunting, and I was spending thirty of my energy towards scent control and it wasn't the limiting factor of my hunting. So I became a better hunter and in other places and spent less money more time. Yeah. So I mean, if in the perfect world you would utilize some level of scent control and perhaps it would reduce your human odor. You know, if you study carbon and what it'll do, you almost know it works. I mean, it's into it. You know, it's just activated carbon. It's just just a crazy good. So if you understand what it's doing, and you understand how to activate it, and you got yourself covered, but you don't cover your head, well, I mean they're gonna smell you, so you cover your head. Then you go, well is your face covered? So I don't go to that extreme. I don't cover my face. But there's so many different ways to do it. And talking about this, so you know who knows which is no beard, no hair, no beard, no hair, and cover your entire body and wear rubber boots. And if you got the energy to do it, it doesn't you know what a long time ago and I've been doing. And what Mark Kenyon says, he says, it's simply and it's the same thing Dad says, is that if it might help you, if it might make a buck stay there for five seconds longer before he spooks. Because there is an argument to be made, and I've yet to hear a single human give me a scientific reason that this is true. And I don't believe it that a smaller amount of scent would spook a deer any more than a larger amount of sent Because that's that is the that is the thing that we're saying. We're saying you can't. We're saying like, if you use sent control products, then you're reducing your human odor. So so a deer comes down when and he still smells a human, he just smells less human. What's less volume. It's a gas, so it dissipates the further out. Again, what Clay Nucom says is that it don't matter if he smells a little human or a lot of human, He's gonna spook just the same about nine of the time I made that number up, number one, number two. Do you see what I'm saying? Though, I see what you're saying. But the more the less there is, and the further it dissipates, there's a chance he might nothing. Well, I'm going off. I'm going off. I want to say decades, probably thirteen years of messing around with scent control, and I have used the Ozone products, okay, just begged them to work. I mean, I wanted Ozone to work so bad because it was gonna be my silver bullet. And it just I have dear smell me all the time. When I use Ozon. It makes an odor, It creates its own odor, and it might not be a human odor, but a buck goes, Wait a minute, I've never smelt that before, So I'm getting out of here. I mean, and I've I've heard that before. It definitely you you smell it when it's going. And I heard a real good bow hunter, a guy that I know that's killed three deer, white til deer with a bow, who's killed multiple two deer. And you'd never know his name. He's not he's not a public figure. And he told me that Ozon is a joke. I mean, he's a stone cold killer. You know who. You know who I'm talking about, And uh, I mean he's the one. He said that stuffs a joke. And then I I've tried it for several years. My point is, and I don't I don't have any trouble. Uh, I mean this is what I think. Like now, I still you will see me. I I used scent shield this week, sprayed down my clothes a little bit. Just I call it witchcraft because you're doing something that you know doesn't work. Post baking soda witchcraft banking soda number one is in the Bible, so you're gonna want to think about that. I think witchcraft is too for what it's worth. You know what Gary says about the activated charcole is true. I have a friend who has a propensity to make a pretty significant odor himself. Have you guys ever heard of the product? Subtle but Negative are activated carbon sheets that go in your drawers. Wow, we're talking furniture drawers or not furniture. Hey, I love I love the sick control conversation. I don't want it to sound like I'm trying to stir up trouble, but it bothers me that there's no way that we can prove it. I mean I could, I could do a whole I could talk to you for an hour, NonStop about all the reasons why commercial scent control products pretty much don't work. So anyway, I know I'm burning all these bridges. I would I would care about the commercial ones. It's wash your clothes and baking soda. Use some of that soap that doesn't have a whole lot of it. I dare you to put baking soda in my beard. Hey, let's talk about Borderline's jaguars. Did they use a lot of seat control? You know what? There's there is some theories on predators ability to minimize scent. You know, in the animal kingdom, animals use scent for communication, So like a buck in the rut, he increases his odor so that his scent picture is bigger, and YadA, YadA, and uh, I've heard it said that the predators can kind of like turn down their scent. We know that a white tail fawn and these fonds when they're born, they're born like basically scentless, um less, older, and their mother cleans them for a minute so less oder pequal's advantage. I just disproved myself. Hey, go ahead, Okay, here's here's what I would say. I would love for someone to convince me that I'm wrong, So please do That's what I'm saying, Well, why is the burden on us? But I mean it's reviews are going to go wild? Yes, yes, I would love for someone with a scientific answer that had thirty years of experience that wasn't on on their own uh spurious correlations. I was about to defend Clay. I don't know if I want to do it now, but I was gonna say, like in the defensive you're you're bringing that up. The reduction is sent is to uh stave off predators, not to be a predat there. So you're saying that the the funds have less of a sense, that they are less susceptible to predators, are less detectable, rather than you being the predator. Reducing your sense you're you're right and reducing your sin is good. It's gonna be good. One more flip flop. I can't. I don't even know who you are. Hey, Borderland's Jaguars, Dan, what do you think? I thought it was great? I loved hearing more from Warner Glenn. I think that was fantastic. I see anytime you hear that guy. I think it was very interesting too. Here just the whole idea of there being an animal out there that's basically called the one that eats us psychologically that well, that doesn't happen a whole lot to people and an animal. I mean, there's kind of these freaking encounters, but there's an animal that's name that that's a fear of us. Yeah, either of us? Pretty wild. I thought you were just being dramatic. I didn't realize until I listened to the podcast, but I saw that on the title of the when it popped up on my phone, and I thought it's a little melodramatically. It's what the that tribe in Amazon they called the jaguaria. They called it either of us. But in in modern times, in at least in the United States, there's never I'm quite certain there's never been a documented jaguar attack in the United States, but down in Central America and stuff like, it's it's for real, a lot of the American jaguars vegan, h Josh, what do you think, Well, I thought it was I thought it was really good. I love hearing the science, but you know, I'm kind of with Dan too. I love hearing Warner that guys like that are are disappearing and to uh hear stories about That's what. The thing that I like about him is the pursuit that he has of of the thing that he does with with uh for the mountain lions and you know, finding the jaguar and stuff, but to really draw in family, to to talk about bringing people together, just the you can tell the passion and the care and the concern that he has for the animal, the way, just the way that he talked about it with such reverence. He's not a He's not a doesn't have a blood lust for animals. He really has a passion for these animals and you know, conservation and an awareness. Even even the way that he's like, I didn't know if I should go public with this, you know, just shows an incredible respect for the people around him, for the animal itself, for conservation, and it was it was very very interesting to listen to. I really enjoyed it. I wanna I want to clarify something, so I put this picture so in Warner Glenn's house, he has a huge probably I bet it's six ft long five ft tall, original painting that a really good artist did of the picture that he took at the jaguars. The jaguars in the pose that he saw the jaguar, but the artist, you know, put a little Warner Glenn down in the corner riding his mule. Yeah. If you see that, there's Warner Glenn down there with a dog, and um um I had so I made an Instagram post and said, Warner Glenn documented the first live jaguar in the United States. And people, several people were like, uh no, he didn't. There were so many killed in Arizona and so many killed in Texas, and people were like, you may want to go back and read that, and I was like, okay, listen to what was said. He documented the first live one. So if someone shows up with a dead one in the back of his truck, that is not a documentation of a live jaguar. That is a dead jaguar. It was the first documentation of a live jaguar in the United States, meaning he took a photo, went back and showed the photo to people, and that animal was still alive. So that's all it was. But they didn't. They hadn't documented one in what's the lifespan of a jaguar? You know, that's a good question. I don't know. Probably probably about like black bear. I doubt they lived twenty years in the wild. Probably like a cat. I mean, like like a tom cat, you know, lived twelve years or something. Just this idea that there could be a animal like that that lives. I mean, a jaguar is a jungle animal. It's just such a wild thing. What do you think of it? Dan? Oh? I thought it was very interesting, and uh, of course Warner Glenn was interesting to listen to. And you know, he wouldn't satisfied with your comment that the first live jaguar that was seen. He he broke it down further. What did he say? He said, I can't remember really correct, but he said, it's alive, it was wild, it was wild in nature. In other words, you can see them in captivity. You could see dead first. So so he he wasn't happy with your simple alive. He went into he said, wild jaguars. He did two or three different breakpounds, so I mean he he eliminated the zoo, he you know, so I thought, you know, he's he's a detailed guy. I mean he's he's really paying attention to details. But what caught me about the whole thing was kind of surprising, really as much interesting content as there was. But what stuck with me is the fringe animals. I mean, to me, that was just like Daniel Boone all over again. I mean, you've got an animal that's that has been created this way, where you got a bunch of little crazy guys out here and their job is to go find the boundary of where we can survive. I mean, I've never even heard thought of that. I mean, that's crazy in the way you brought it out. These were like the pot what you used the frontiers? Yeah, and I go why that he was pretty thinking cool you think about Yeah, I'm glad you said that. Think about it. A jaguar, he has no concept that he is on the northern range of his species. He doesn't know that in Brazil and in Bolivia and Venezuela is the core of his Like if I went down there, there'd be a bunch of us there. This jaguars just living his life. And he goes north into the United States and there just comes a point when he's just like, I gotta go back south, you know, and there there might be some functional things that happen, like he runs into cities less game, more arid, you know, whatever the conditions. But but he has this, he has this metric inside of him that's default where there comes a point when he goes no further and he goes back to just about every time I get to our in laws. Every time we get to my in laws house, it's like, no go back south South in Michigan. Well I play. It's a it's really a tremendous survival technique. It's like, you know, we can all live here in this tremendous jungle forest and just you know, be having a great life. But what happens if the forest has gone? So, I mean I need to expand my territory where that we can survive regardless of what happens. And so it's in eight within some of those guys to be the frontiersman that's gonna go out in and find that fringe area, find out where the border is, and and it's that's how they stay alive. That's how they have survived. Well, there there have been jaguars documented as far north as the Grand Canyon And hey, did you hear me call out you and Aunt Ali? Oh? Yeah, Hey, okay, I I've got I gotta say this in this book. So I wanted to talk about this book. I wasn't able to. I just couldn't fit it into the to the Beargrease podcast. But there's a book called Borderland's Jaguars by David E. Brown and Carlos Lopez Gonzalez. Incredible book. Sometimes you pick up these smaller books like this and you know you might be unimpressed with kind of the writing and the structure of the book. This is like a top notch, a top shelf academic book. Most of the information that I got from the for the podcast came from this book, Borderland's Jaguars. You mean yeah, yeah, that was good. That was really good. Where did you hear about Deli from? Yeah? I've heard about Deli for years. If you're in the hound community, you've heard of daily. I thought he was hands down my favorite part of this podcast storytelling. I was curious and when when he started, I just thought, we're on earthically, where does he find these people? Did you hear about him? I bet? I bet you liked him? That, did you. Yeah, yeah, he was so Daily was is considered, you know, one of the best line hunters of all time. And it's so hard to say. I told uh. I told Steve or Nello the other day about Warner Glenn before I interviewed him, and I said, Warner Glenn is one of the best dry ground line and hunters in the world. And Steve said, why did dry ground line hunters get to why did they all of a sudden get like they're the best in the world. And I stopped. I was like, you know of them, We say that all the time. But Daily is known as this great hunter. But he was. He was for sure known as the lead man in catching jaguars in Mexico. And I mean, if you want to talk about some wild stuff, talk about going to Mexico with a pack of hounds and these custom boats. Did you hear him say, we had these little canoes actually a flat bottom boat with plywood and plastic Glassless called it plastic glass, he told her. I said it on the podcast. But he told the story hunting story like he was calling a horse race. We were coming down through there and the dogs said, that little curved dog should he hippy ippy ippy it and I knew that that jaggar was a coming. And then we went down through there and there he was up in a tree. And now while farmer he was, I mean he his his voice would ascend and then decent. He did not sound Texan. He sounded straight out of Arkansas. Yeah, I thought, what a guy. Hey, they're fifteen hours of tapes that you can get of Deli telling Stories Brett Vaughan. You can buy it from my buddy, Brett Vaughan hundred born hundred years too late as his Instagram handle. I mean, I have the tapes. Brett just sent me some, but I haven't listened to him all. That jaguar call was something, wasn't it. It sounded good, empty melan And and what did he pull through a piece of leather with rosin, some kind of rosin on the leather? Ty? What? What did anything stand out to you inside of it? Yeah? I definitely can relate to what everyone else has said also thought about just conceptually, there comes a point because we you know, as the jaguar has kind of gone up and further away out of Mexico, you know, it's strong in the iconography of Mexico, but you don't see it at that borderline. And you mentioned how it's like when you see something rare but it's not super rare, there's a place for it in the iconography, and it's like this like treasured moment. You saw the thing that we don't get to see a lot of, and then when it's super rare, to your point, it's just like somebody shoves back up to the camp finders, like I saw jaguar and just like shut up talking about you ate some old mushrooms. You didn't see it, jaguaron, And so it doesn't even make it into the iconography. And so that was really cool to tie that back even to the black Panther like storylines from all the way back with the first Burgrease and and so like just looking at how wildlife and experiences are are like captured within cultural cultural things, and then like there even comes a point where it stops like it it becomes so rare that it just doesn't even get captured or it's even considered like it's yeah, it's not even sacred, it's just not plausible. So why even you know, there's a lot to be there's a lot that's weighing on the fact that the tribes of the southwestern United States don't have jaguar iconography and their culture because there are groups of there there there there's a group right now and I don't know all the details of it, but they have talked about jaguar quote reintroduction. There's a group that believes that there can be that that southwest Arizona, Southeast Arizona, southwest New Mexico could could hold sixty two hundred jaguars, and they talked about releasing them into that area, which would which would be wild in in the in the the biologist and everybody that I know is saying, like, why would we do that? They've never been here that much. And that's what that's what Jim Heffelfinger was saying, is he's like, and Jim Heffelfinger is a biologist, and he's like, there's just evidence that they were ever here in great number. And what Warner Glenn was saying was that if that happens, it just shuts down that part of the world for ranchers, for hunters, for people living off the land. And his point was well taken, and I liked it, and I wanted to put it in there, as he said, yeah, let's protect that cat, put it on the endangered species list, which it has been for forty years, fifty years, whatever. But he said that critical habitat regulation lock stuff down so much. If de incentivizes people from even wanting them there, he said, then people shoot showing it may sound normal to think, well, of course Warner Glenn didn't shoot that jaguar. It wasn't normal. I mean people shoot jaguars. I mean, I don't have proof of that, but there's in Mexico they for sure due to this day. I mean, that's the biggest threat to him down in Mexico. Is like Jim said, people these small time cattle ranchers jars call them. Was it I want to say, what you call it? Reciprocity killings or something like italiatory. Yeah, like that even that kind of colors the nature of it when you recognize like they're not killing it for sport, they're killing it for retaliation because it's coming on their livelihood. But then they're just like, no, we gotta protect them. It's just like there's a there's definitely pretty sure that the Maupo Borderlands Group and I could be wrong on this, alex Um is. Uh, there are there are groups. There are groups that pay landowners if they lose livestock to jaguars, like like so it's like, Okay, you lost a cow, don't go kill the jaguar. Let me pay you for the cow the replacement costs for it. So that is a big part of kind of the creative conservation that's going on. But where does that funding come from? And um, you know, I'm not a jaguar expert. I learned all this in the last two months, you know. I mean, so it's not like this is something this is all new to me as well. But it's fascinating that we have a big cat in in North America that is like that. Did you notice that when you asked Jim if he had ever seen any documentation for a black panther, he did not directly answer the question. M M. Do you think he had? You think he did? I mean, simple no, Hey, I now remember what I was gonna say about this book. I'm kind of just going off memory here. In this book, there is a map of the United States and it was made a long long time ago, and it's shaded in places where jaguars were in the United States during this time. The entire state of Texas was I gotta find it because it wasn't the entire state of Texas. But the jaguar distribution from this map, and and biologists now would say that that map asn't accurate, but back in those days they believed it. And the jaguar distribution went up and almost touched Arkansas. M So if there was a melanistic jaguar, you could have almost been an in the alley. I mean, you can't argue with you. Okay, they saw one? How long was its tail? How long did its tail? Sound? Well? It said it like it was the length of their body? What is had I not? Had I not heard that? Though? Like I'm from Rancis Passage. Here it is right here? Look here, okay, okay. Range of Jaguar in North and Central America nineteen three, with the aid of the U. S Biological Survey, that jaguar range comes up all the way into southeast Oklahoma and touches the Red River in southwest Arkansas. I mean, read it and weep. Alex. Did you ever seen Alex a hat? We're bros. I haven't. I don't have hats. Anymore there could, Okay, but Jim Halfelfinger says that there has never been a melanistic jaguar documented below deep deep South Mexico. There's yeah, yeah, there's never been one above it. So black jaguar. Economy Stretch. So Rancis Past, Texas is where I grew up, and the high school mascot was panthers as panthers, and the panther was a black panthers. You know, a person in a black panthers it was in the case. But here's what's funny is in the most like remarkably South Texas thing ever, there was a seafood restaurant called the Big Fisherman, and outside the Big Fisherman was whoever owned that place was basically like Tiger King from the nineteen eighties, because there was a ton of wild animals and big cats and everything. And had you asked me before you told me there weren't black panthers, I said, yeah, I saw in a cage outside of the Big Fisherman waiting to go in and eat fried shrimp. But like, just because the iconography of it was still built into my head, my high school mascot was a black panther there was black panthers. They're at the Big Fisherman. Like all of this was just baked in. It's just like this is what it was. And so now I'm just like buried in lies. I don't know what's the truth anymore. And you know what, listen to these podcasts again reminded me of something that I had completely forgotten about circa nineteen eighties six this my mom worked with this guy. My mom worked for DuPont in Texas in in Clear Clear Lake, Texas, I think Baytown, Texas. This guy we lived in this town called Alvin, Texas, and this guy lived there. He and he was a big like kind of he had he had like Clydesdale's and he had some some other interesting and I think he had some al pacas and stuff. But he had a jaguar. He had a jaguar and he had a conversion van and he'd ride around with this pet jaguar in a cage in the back of his van. I saw it with my own eyes, that underwear not in No, he the cat didn't care what I felt like, how long and or curly was his mullet. He wasn't. Actually, he was kind of like kind of looked like Grizzly Adams, and he was he was kind of a cool guy. He'd he'd put his team of Clyde Sdales together and he'd ride this wagon with Clyde Sdales through town. Yeah, but yeah, he had a jaguar. I remember going. He said, you want to see my cat? And he took me. Oh wow, this is not the kind of guy you wanna. How old were you? I was ten? And uh yeah. He'd opened up the back of his van and he had a cape like a kind of like a dog kennel in there with a jaguar in there. Impressive. Impressive. Hey, Okay, I think I think it's time. I've been sitting on some original music for some time, deep in the bowels of your soul. Hey, okay, me and me and Josh and Tye are gonna play some music. Okay. I wrote a song I want to publicly say this that has diaguars in it. I have no dreams of being a talented musician. Okay. We like to play music because it's just fun. I have seen some people that like take music kind of serious and maybe they're not very good, and you're like, so that's not me. Okay. I realized I'm not very good. Okay, but I do. I do like music and I enjoy playing it. I wrote a serious song about Warner Glenn and I what do you mean by serious? I mean, like all the other songs that we've really like, like Oh Captain, Oh Captain, and the Bulldozer song, like they were parodies. They were jokes. It was funny. But the Captain song was great, it was great. Well, those were those were jokes songs. And so there's there's a line that you crossed when you start writing serious songs, essentially saying all this for me, I you know, Clay is just about an inch away. When you started writing a serious song. I was concerned that maybe I had a YouTube diva on in my house, and I got super nervous. I gonna started doing this, but this is that's not what he's doing here. So I wrote a song. It's called the Ballad of Warner Glenn. Okay, And I didn't I don't feel like I had a choice to write this song. I really was impact by meeting Warren Glenn and I sat down and wrote the song and like a very short amount of time and Todd is going to play the stand up bass and Josh is gonna help a on guitar and we're gonna sing this song. Dan, you're ready here, I'm ready. I could just stare at well. Dan's the only one that hadn't heard it. Dad's heard it a little bit. But uh yeah, we're gonna do it. I can get out to Cowbell if y'all want me to. We're down south on the border of Mexico, rattle snakes, lots of bendets, where the cactus grow, dirt and spurs, fed the hounds and let him go as a boy. Argent told him where the Big Tom's Road, Open country where the jaguar strolls saddle is six hand you when the desert sun blows. Nobody ever told him this wretched life was a hard road to hold. Hiding the rising sun behind the cheer of cowas folds, He's mounted and moving and going for an all day mule back stroll, open country where the jaguar strolls lyne track in the dirt, seven miles into Where did he go? Got a pack of wild walker dogs that are philosophers like the road hounds, worth the dirt like a farmer works as rose up the canyon, round the rock, chasing the ghosts of a shadow, Open country where the jaguar strolls. The only catching if he crosses the plateau, chase him over the rim rock, and old hood pays him in a hole. It's not a line he seeks, but a wildness he can't control. Who I'm talking about? This corner of Glen and the black Crow, Open country where the jaguar strolls. Open country and sage makes the old man's heart grow a poet in the saddle, but his words don't overflow. He fought a long man and feeded guilty just so you know, sweat some bullets and sleepless nights. But they let him go Open country where the jaguar strolls. Unlesser man would have thrown another blow. But Warner new to solve his problems, he had to grow. Invited his enemies to the table and their faces glowed, broke some bread, all were fed, and the rooster crowd Open country where the jaguash rolls. Hey, that was awesome, open country. Hey. I want to read these lyrics because if you, if you followed along on these three podcasts, it makes this is this is a story it's a story of a lion hunt the way down south on the border of Mexico. I mean Warner Glenn literally lives on the Mexican border. Rattlesnakes, lots of band deetles where the cactus grow. He gets, He gets horses, snake bit and dogs snake. When I was down there with him for a day, he was like, watch out for rattlesnakes, dirt and spurs, feed the hounds and let him go. I mean, the man's life revolves around his dogs. And I noted when he wrote his mule just on an average day, like when I rode with him, he put on his spurs, which I don't always wear my spurs, but he put on his spurs, dirt and spurs, feed the hounds and let him go. And as a boy, Marvin taught him where the big Tom's rove. Marvin is his dad, and Marvin that he hunts the same ground as dad did. I mean he he the exact same ground. Um. And then open country where the jaguar stroll. That's the that's the chorus. Open country is the phrase that they like. When I went down there, I heard multiple people say open country, and then I tuned in. I was like, Ah, that's what you guys say. That that means something their books called open country. Warner says it all the time, open country where the jaguar stroll. It defines that landscape. This this visitor from the south satella six hand mule when the desert sun glows, so that means early in the morning. Nobody ever told him the stretched life was a hard road to home. Man. I'll tell you what. When I think of a guy like Warner, Glenn hunting as long as he has, I think about then I said it on the podcast, but I think about the number of times he hooked up his trailer in the dark, woke up at two literally two am to go feed his mules lotus dogs, drive two hours, get the mules out, and then be where he needs to go by sunrise to look for a track, hiding the rising sun behind the Cherrica was folds. Warner is one of these guys that wakes up like early every single day Cherracha was as the mountains that they live in and hunt, so hiding the rising sun behind the cheer cause fold. He's mounted and moving and going for an all day buble back stroll. Line, tracking the dirt seven miles in, But where did he go? They ride a tremendous amount, you know when they're riding these on these hunts. And this is my favorite line. He's got a pack of white walker dogs that are philosophers, like the row. Hounds worked the dirt like a farmer works as Rose up a canyon, around the rock, chasing the ghost of a shadow. I like that line. A lot hounds worked the dirt like a farmer works as rose. Yeah, they only catch him if he crosses the plateau, chasing him over the rim rock, and old Hook bays him in the whole. Hook is his favorite dog, the twelve year old dog. You know, it's not a line he seeks, but a wildness he can't control. I think that's true. I mean, like when I when I think of the things that I'm after, like a big buck in a mountain, I mean like I want antlers, I want meat, But really what I want to do is interact with a wild place. That's really what you're after, you know, And in a in a hunter, being able to interact with a wild place by taking something from it is like super human and super intimate. Um. So it's not a line he steaks, but a wildness he can't control. Who I'm talking about is Warner Glenn the black crow? What's the black crow? Where? Who I'm talking about his Warner Glen and the black Crow. I'm just saying Warner Glenn is like he's like part of the landscape, like a black crow. Just that's right. Open country and stage makes the old man's heart grow a poet in the saddle. But his words don't know. That was my other favorite line. Yeah, favorite line. He followed all man and pleaded guilty, just so you know it. Sweat some bullets and sleepless nights, but they let him go. What good cowboys story doesn't have a little squad part. It's about a quarter country, so a lesser man with throwing another blow. But Warner new to solve his problems, he had to grow, invite his enemies to the table, and the faces glowed broken bread all were fed in the rooster croad. I like that last, that last chorus. First we're uh yeah, we're done with the Warner Glenn series. So thanks Warner Glenn. Yeah yeah, it was good, really good, really good. I hope he lives a lot longer. He talked about I remember talking about this might be our last season him and old Dog. Yeah, I have my doubts. He's got a lot of life lift him. I can tell you that closing thoughts, Dan that Warner Glenn is pretty concerned about scent control covers the dogs in baking soda. Uh Ti, thanks for coming man, Yeah, you bet. I was glad to do it, and I've enjoyed the series on Warner Glenn for sure. He's he's a He's a kind of person that hearing about their life like just kind of sparks sparks in you a desire to get out there and do it more and not get kind of caught up. You know, I'm uh, I hunt and everything, but I'm on a computer my almost you know, all my working day and everything, and there's there's something in you that's not fulfilled. And so to hear about people who make their living that kind of way, it's just like, you know, that's that may not be for me, but it definitely drives me to want to make sure that I'm staying in touch with the things that that are tied to that so that I'm not just kind of getting caught up in computers and college football and such nonsense. Dad thoughts, Oh, it's just awesome, you know, great guy legend in a neat animal. Love the animal, the big head, the strong jawl, can bend a what a half inch? Half Still I'm going uh huh, it likes to eat us. So very interesting, very very even formative. Hey, the next Burgar's podcasts are gonna be really cool. More coming. I'm not gonna tell you what it is, though. Thankfully, guys want to call me, I'll tell you. Yeah, Josh, Josh was there? Keep the Wild Places wild? Hey we miss Brent? Oh yeah, come back to Yeah Brent, I forgot to say Brent wasn't here. Yeah, yeah, and uh Warner Glenn's daughter was extremely interesting. Yeah I enjoyed a Yeah, Kelly, yeah for sure. All right, thank you guys. Sent control or no sent control, Love you all,