00:00:02 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, your home for deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wire to Hunt Podcast. I'm your host, Mark Kenyan. This episode number one Tan the show. We're joined by Mike Batty, a man who tagged one of the biggest bucks ever killed the bow. And in addition to the story that buck, we're also going to be diving deep into how Mike continues to kill big mature bucks to this day. Welcome to the Wire to Hunt Podcast, brought to you by Si A Gear and Tan the Show. No big surprise here. We're talking white tails and we're joined by a fellow white tail nut. But this hunter is on a whole different level then I think almost all of our guests to this point, probably all of them, you know, just like most of the people we've talked to over the years, our guest today is a serious big buck killer. He's obsessed with dear and he's had plenty of success killing big mature bucks. But what none of our other guests have done is this. He has killed a buck. He just blew past that whole two mark and he killed a He killed a thirty nine point buck that, according to one article I've read, scored three D four and six eight inches. Um. I read that in North American White Tail, but in the Pope and Young record books it looks like that's a net toour. But regardless, whatever the score is, yeah, whatever the score is, it's it's a freaking giant. And this guest is Mike Batty. And you may recognize Mike as for a very long time, his mug was on the side of those Primos can calls. Do you remember that? Damn you can't call, you flip over us. Yeah, so Mike's buck and his picture was on the side of that and that can call. I still have the first one I ever got. I still have and it's got Mike on it. And uh. I actually met Mike earlier this year at the A t A Show, and then a couple of weekends ago while I was working down um at the Sick of Gear booth at the Ohio Deer in Turkey classes he was there too, and so we have to spend some time getting to know each other there and he was just a really interesting guy, had a lot of interesting things to share, and I thought he'd be he'd be someone we should definitely talk to because you know, not only did he kill that mega giant down in Ohio back and I think it was two thousand, but he's continued to kill some really nice bucks that I've been checking out on Facebook and different places. So I think he's got a lot to share and I'm excited to kind of dive into all that. So that's kind of the plan. Damn, what do you think? I like big Bucks and I cannot lie, and I've been I don't know about you, but I go I occasionally go to the ebbs and flows in like my um level of white till mania. Um, I mean it's basically every single day I'm doing something related to white tails. But there are certain days when like I'm up all night thinking about it and looking at stuff on my phone and looking at maps. You know we talked about all time. But then there's other days where you know, I'm thinking about Alaska, I'm thinking about a backpacking trip or something. Um, right now, I'm like in full blown white tail mania. I've been studying trail camera pictures again. I have been reading a habitat improvement book that's got me thinking of all sorts of new crazy ideas that that I might try to take on this next couple of weeks. So I don't know. In shed hunting, there's been all that going too. So talked to the buddy today and even just last weekend he went out and found like nine sheds. So and then and then I got a guy who sends me an email in March twenty, which would have been this Sunday. Uh, he's got bucks on trail cameras still holding both sides. So that old shed hunting stuff just crazy. Yeah, I think that's what screwed me up this year. Um well, you know, a whole a bunch of different things possibly could, but I think that, um, these deer to your point, I've been holding a lot later than usual this year. I saw a buck holding both sides just a couple of days ago when I was shed hunting here in Michigan, and I worry it might have I might have blasted in after Holy Field too early, because um I probably I thought, you know, when I saw him early in March, I thought for sure he was gonna drop soon. So I came back from that Iowa trip and hit it hard, and I worried that he was still holding and maybe I pushed him out of the area. So the chance, yeah, I'm bummed about that. I was being so patient in January and February, and I thought I was gonna wait till I saw him drop on camera. But then, you know, I think we talked about a little bit. I just I wasn't getting any pictures of him. I so I had could pictures in January, could pictures in early February, and then nothing. So I pulled my cameras at the end of the month, and then I saw him and then I thought the way he was acting, oh he's gonna drop, And uh, I don't know. I've went one so many miles this year, um way more than I ever have in Michigan, and uh to no avail. So sometimes you get it. Sometimes you hit it right. Sometimes you don't hit it at all, And uh, I don't know, man, it's shed. Hunting can play with your mind, I think a little bit. Very true, very true. It can be fresh, but you just you just gotta keep walking. Yeah, that's all there is to it in the end at the or give up, right, I'm just about there. Can I tell you what I've been doing the last like a few days I have bench pressing and then taking the pictures of it. No, no, no, but something equally, something equally as impressive. I am becoming a handyman. All my all my buddies give me a hard time because I'm not handed all. I can't do crap when it comes to fixing things or anything. But by necessity I am learning. Because we're in the midst of, like frantically trying to get our camper that we bought this past fall ready to go for our trips, and we've had we found out that we had to replace the roof because there was some hidden water damage. And so for the last like five days, I've been spending most of the day or my nights up there doing various things. So so my question is, do you feel now that you've purchased this camper and the money and time you've put into it, did you get ripped off? So? I mean we got sort of ripped off a little bit and that um and I can't, you know, I think I've told you that I can't, you know, complain about the situation. I did tell you the story about this, right, I don't think so. Well, my wife's never listen to this, so I can, I can, I can say this story. Basically, we're looking for campers and stuff this fall and my wife really wanted to get one and I was kind of dragging my feet on it because it was the middle of hunting season and it was like early November, and she found one on Craigslist she liked. But I had to be in the tree because I was, you know, it was like November six or seventh or something. So I was like, go, take your dad, go look at this camper. You know, I'm gonna hunt. I gotta hunt. You guys can look at it and just send me pictures or whatever. So she did that. Her energad liked it. Um, it looked good. It was a good deal. And so she texted me, you know, pictures and told me the scoop and said it seems like a good deal blah blah. And so I just said, all right, just trust and just do it. Um. And you know, now we've found there's been more repair work needed to be done in the water damage and all that kind of stuff, but regardless of that, it was still it's been more work than I expected. But because we got such a good deal price wise, and other than this roof damage, um, everything else is really really good shape. I mean it wasn't used hardly at all. Um, everything seems pretty much brand new except for the roof issues. So it's been more time invested. But as far as money, like, for the total amount of money we'll put into it, we definitely couldn't get as nice of a camper as we're going to have by the time it's all said and done, so um, So overall, I still think it was a good deal. It's just been kind of frustrating as all Right, a little more work than what you originally thought. Yeah, but it's gonna be cool. Um And here in like a week and a half we gotta be done with it because we're taking off so behind Yeah, yep, it's not an RV. Not an r V. It's a twenty ft pull behind. Um, there's just like a little area where there was a built in bed, but we took that out and we've made it into like a fold out bed so when it's folded up, it's like a big couch. And then at night I'm building a big bench that will be like the floor support for the bed when it folds out and that will be the rest on top of um, so we'll have some extra room there. And then there's just a little table that could fold down into a bed if you've got someone else, and then a little kitchen and little kitchen out a little bathroom, and that's basically it. So the bare centrals, but it will be enough to get us out there and just sick of sitting and sleeping in a tent on these trips. Well, I love sleeping intent but we're just not we're not runting a house this year. Oh okay, I got you. So we're gonna live out of camper for three months. I got you, all right, So I can't convince my wife to live out of tent for three months. But there's a guy. There's a guy at a major intersection down by where I go to work at who's been there for over three months. He lives under a bridge. But we we liked the whole vagabonding thing, but not quite that level. You don't eat rats and pigeons. We're not gonna we're not gonna go that far. So so yeah, we're gonna save some money. We're not gonna rent the cabins like we did the past. Couple of years. Um, so we invested a little bit on the front end. But now you know, for future years, we're gonna have this to live out of and it's just gonna give us more flexibility. Um. You know, we'll be abill stay weeks at a time in different places and we don't need to drive as much. So it's gonna be an adventure. Man. We're gonna start in Utah and then Wyoming and then Montana and uh so we'll see. Well, I hope you have fun and just you know, while you're out doing that, remember the little guys who are sitting in the cubicless wishing they weren't in their cubicles. Well, are you gonna come visit me this summer? You talked about the fact that you might. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know nothing anymore, Like my brain is mush mashed potatoes some days. You know, I don't I don't know what. I don't even know what's going on. After I get done recording this podcast. To be honest with you, I hear you, I hear you. I know I know I gotta feed the kids and I gotta give them baths tonight. That's the only thing I know that's a hard like that's on the agenda for the next six months their essentials. At least you get there. That's right, that's right. Well, like you said, I, I tweeted out a question the other night and staid, like, what's your number one hunting goal for two thousand seventeen? And you're like, I can't remember exactly. It's just something the lines along the lines of fair of how not to us off my wife so I can count back. It was to hunt as efficient as possible while not pissing off my wife. Yeah, right exactly. So as long as you've got that part figured out. I don't have that part figured out. And I don't think any husband ever will have that part figured out right because if they, if they ever did, they would write a book about it, um and then it would be on Oprah's best selling list or whatever that whatever that is, and then uh, he'd make a billion dollars. You know, we gotta do that, UM Hunting Wives podcasts again. We've got to get some new UM significant others on the show to get their opinions on what we need to do. I might be sick for that one. You're never gonna let your wife on here. Right, Well, I might someday, but I might have to be like really drunk. I really want to make that happen. I would love that episode so much. Right, it would be one hour of us arguing. You won't even say any words, just pure gold as far as I'm concerned. Oh man, Okay, well, we we gotta wrap this one up and get our guests on the line. So we're gonna give a call. We give Mike a call, but first let's take a break for our sickest story. Alright. So our sickest story today comes from Dylan Lens, a guy who lives in Huntson, Wisconsin and films for the Breaking Point TV. And the Dylan story today is the one that actually doesn't have an ending. It's a story that hopefully we'll be able to share an ending to later this fall. There's this just absolutely stud buck out there. We've been watching and we actually started calling him in Narwhale. I'm not sure exactly why, but he's just a stun bug, huge times um, really unique, and you know he stands out from the herd. You'll be watching thirty year out in this march yards out and you can tell it's him, and he has the body, the stature, and you know, just a giant frame on him, and all the deer will be coming in and he just he gets smart. Um, we'll have anywhere from ten to fifteen dollars comes straight into the blind. And this past year, you know, I thought we were gonna seal the deal on him. He stopped about a hundred yards out. Eight dollars came straight into the blind. He stopped hundred yards out just survey the entire area. Wanted to make sure someone's right. He was the only deer that broke off from the pack, circled in three ft snow to get down wind of us, and busted us. And that's happened two or three times now with him over the last two years. So going into we're really gonna be hoping that he made it and that we can get an opportunity on him and hopefully out with him this year, because at this point it's it's almost personal and it's really fun to actually, you know, played chests with a deer of that caliber. It seems like almost because it seems like he's always one step ahead of us. So this is gonna be the year that really tests us just try and get ahead of him. So what are those of those moments like when every single time you see him he had, he ends up out smarting you and circling down away. It really, you know, it's just a kick, kick in the stomach, really, I mean, I mean, it just leaves you feeling so defeated. But at the same time, it just instills that hope of man, next time we're gonna get him, you know, yeah, definitely. So how many nights of sleep do you think you're gonna lose between now and then while dreaming about that deer? The normal keeps me up already, I can only say it's uh, it's going to continue throughout the year, and I just can't wait to get back out there after this year. That's awesome. Alright, this was a sick of story, and if you like to create sick of story of your own this coming season, you can visit sick kid gear dot com. And now let's get back to the show and give Mike Batty a call. All right with us. Now on the line is Mike Batty. Welcome the show. Mike, Yeah, glad to be here. Thanks for having me. Absolutely you caught me in Dan off guard just a second ago before we start recording, because you said, oh, Dan, I'm sorry for your loss, and we're both like, what loss? But you're calling him out on a shipwreck. That was good. That's uh, it's always nice when someone knows how to rag on Dan. I enjoy those types of guests. I'm you know, I know, I know it is so hey, you gotta be able to take and give ship in life, so very true. So so, Mike, I briefly, very briefly introduce you to our audience before you got on here with us, But can you just tell us a little bit about yourself, maybe how you got into white tail hunting and what kind of stuff you're up to these days? Sure? Um, well, it kind of it kind of all stems from, you know, the family life you're raised in. Um, My dad was a Korean War veteran and deacon on a church board and mom Sunday school teacher. So I had a pretty stripped upbringing. And my brother in law kind of took me under his wing and I started hunting at a pretty early age, just tagging along with him. Basically, it said, about eight years old, and we would go you know, groundhold hunting, squirrel hunting, a lot of small games. And then you know, back then you couldn't really get your your hunting license in the state of Pennsylvania to your age twelve. I'm not really sure if it's that way anymore. You know how they try and get youngsters involved now earlier, at an earlier age. So, um, I kind of cut my teeth on t a dear, uh, trying to provide feet meat for the family, you know, filling up that freezer. Uh. Right after, right out of high school, I joined the military and left and kind of went travel the world a little bit and started out at write Pad Air Force Space here in Green County, Ohio. And then a short short order after that, I received PCs orders to go to the Philippines. So I met a girl here, a local girl, and we ended up getting married before I left, and uh, she went over to the Philippines with me, where we had our first son, Andrew, And he's actually you know, the one that helped me find a baby buck whenever, whenever all that went down. But um, anyhow, we we left the Philippines after Mount Pinatuga blew up and we kind of had to be back out of there, traveling on to the Lower Island in the in the Philippines, and then off, you know, further on to the state side where I was able to get back to. I was offered the opportunity to go back the right path and be stationed there, you know, right right Patterson Air Force Space here in Ohio. So it was good to get back home to her family and where he's from. And that's kind of where we settled down. And then we you know, had our next child Britain, so we have to and I've been here ever since, and then just started started really focusing on on hunting here in Ohio quite a bit. And once I got back because one I was you know, I was craving it so bad because they were in the Philippines, I couldn't hunt. And then when I got back here, you know, it was obvious it was a big deer everywhere. So I just started bow hunting really really hard. Yeah, And and it's it seems like things got kicked off for you pretty well once you moved to Ohio and started chasing those big Ohio bucks. Was um, you know, of course we have to talk about your giant there in two thousand Was that your first really really big buck there in Ohio or were you getting on some other bigger deer before that too? Yeah, I I killed a couple, you know, close to pope and young with with archery equipment. One one was right at like one thirty eight from eight points, pretty good eight point. But I could never get you know, onto the well. Obviously, we we educate ourselves as we because we grow older. And I found myself, you know, pressure in the deer, you know, learning from my mistakes, and then you know, as time went on, I was able to get close are in closer to big deer and I and I've got a ton of stories of missus or close encounters where you know, I just messed up, you know, quite honestly, whether it would be you know, trying to sneak in, you know, up wind and just blowing my sin around, or you know, putting a tree stand in the wrong was a wrong tree. So I just I've learned a lot over the years, just you know, just trying to focus in on on how the beer you know, moving or moving patterns they're betting you know, where the food sources are, and just teen in on on you know, pinch pulling funnels and whatnot. Yeah, yeah, I think Dan and I can definitely relate. We we we have had lots of mistakes that we've tried to learn from two um, that's for sure. So so let's let's kick things off there. Um. I want to dive into some of your strategies and some of the things you've done in the years since. But let's kick things off there in two thousand, Um, can you tell us, you know, can you tell us a story of the baby buck? How to you find that, dear, how that whole season go until you kill them, and how that all end up going down? Well, you know, first, first off, whenever I went and not, I actually gained permission from a private landowner. Um, and he you know, was gracious enough to let me go in and hunt, which it was pretty open, to be honest with you. And there was there was a really nice funnel down this fence row and it you know, one side was beans, one side was corn. And I got back in this corner and I just really really liked this corner. And I was seeing a lot of deer, excuse me, and not, I just I never seen the baby buck. I just seen a lot of of good shooters, and I thought, man, I'm in just the honey hole, right. So it wasn't long after that, you know, somebody had had messed around by staying location and took some stuff off the tree and just really frustrating. So you know, I ended up talking to the landowner and he said, listen, why don't you just move up the fence row some you know, they're get away from the neighbor. And so I did, and uh, you know, I listened to his advice. You know, he knows his car better than anybody else, so mean mean and his property. So he said, the deer always seemed to cross through the spencer down in this area of the field, so there was a sparse tree line there. So I went down there and hung a set, and I got in the little pino tree and I was only probably fifteen or sixteen ft off the ground. It wasn't very high because it wasn't a very mature tree. Um heavy enough to hold a set, you know, but um sunny how you know, if it has been scouting that area and me and my son would go out and we would just set on this knob at a distance. We would just scout these spence roads and fields, and and you would see just some of the nicest deer and just the big white racks, you know. So I was trying to figure out how I could get in on this. This one particular eight point is what I was chasing. He looking back now that I've been around quite a few year, if these shows, I would say that he was probably one fifty maybe one six is eight point um. He had actually came in to the stand location that night and I almost got a shot at him, and I mean another two steps and I and I would have flung an arrow at him. You know. So what time of year was that? That was, Well, we've been scouting early season, and then you know, I hunted pretty hard the first month. I mean I was twenty nine days straight hunting the same trouple sets, which you know now we all know probably not the best choice. But the actual might set of the evening of the harvest for the baby buck was November eight, two thousands. So basically what happened is I I didn't really want to go out that night just because I've been kind of burning myself out. Plus you know a lot of labor on the on the wife trying to pick up the kids from the center and all that stuff. So I was like, man, I I just won't go tonight. Well, it started drizzling rain that day at work. I was like, man, this is perfect. It's like it was real calm, and I was just like, just you just know the feeling when you know you should be in the woods, you know what I mean. So the front was coming in and I, you know, I got home. I didn't tell my wife I wanted to go, but I got home, and bless her heart, she had a note lane on the table on a kitchen table and said, hey, go ahead and go, hung I know it's gonna be a good night. You know I'll get the kids. Don't worry about it. Shoot, you ain't gonna tell me twice. You know, it's time for dinner. So I took off and I went while I pulled up into the to the back side of the property, and I pulled up this fence row and there's kind of like a big V on this nab of this hill where the farmers can't plant because it's kind of too steep. So I looked down the backside where I normally park. I looked to my left and there's the edge of the corn field in the grass has grown up and it's it's kind of overgrown briars and stuff. Well, these two or three does stand up. They were bedded right on the edge of the corn, right in this grass. And when I pulled up, I mean, they just jumped up and just trotted into the corn. And I was like, oh man, I just you know, boom erdis hunt. I just pressured whatever deer we're here. So I got out anyhow, and I slipped through the corn. I had kind of a mash down trail through the corn that I could slip through the edge of the corn and get to my stand. And I get up in the stand and I don't know, I let everything settle down. It was probably twenty minutes to half an hour. So I hit the grunt tube, get the can call, and then smack this little basket rack eight point antlers that I carry. So I did it like a little miniature rattling sequence. And I've waited, you know, hung the antlers up, and I just sat there. I'm just waiting. I looked over my left shoulder and there's a deer standard work working a scrape, and I'm like, holy crap, it's a big eight point. So I'm thinking, man, it's is it? So I stand up in the tree and I turned around, and the trees basically between me and the deer at this point because he comes in behind me right. So I grabbed my bow off the bow hanger, I knock or arrows area knocked that. I grabbed his put the release on my loop, and I go to pull back when he stops at this little over the sweeping limb that goes out into the corn, and he just would not come underneath that limb, and I thought it was hanging too low, and it was just shooting right into the to the corn, which gets on like a honey locust tree. So there's us like the big wait a minute tree, you know what I'm talking about, Like the tree you bump into and you say, well, wait a minute, because it's some big, big thorns, like he's scorn. Yeah, I like I thought maybe that was stopping him from coming underneath there all his scorns. So he stopped and he turned around and walked back where he came from one into the corn, and man, I was shaking so hard, like you could pin oak just carry his leaves along time around here, and they were all brown, but they've dried up, but you could just hear them leaves to shaken in the tree fly cow. That was him, and I just missed my opportunity, so he filters back into the corn. So I hung my bow back up, sat back down, took a couple of deep breaths, and just kind of settled in waited a few minutes, and it and it once again. It was probably, I don't know, fifteen twenty minutes later, I picked up the grunt tube and can hit him again three times, hit both of them three times, like alternating, and and then I took the low eight point and smacked it together again and rat a little bit and hung it back up. I look over, you know, at the time, I was turned around little bit to my right towards the corn. So I look over my right shoulder this time, and I see a dear standard and that's Scrape again. But he's got his head up in the lick brand. So he's got his head up working the lick branch. And I thought it was the eight point. Well here it was baby buck, But I phil didn't know what he was, you know, I just knew he was big, so he turns and he starts walking down the fence row and he gets you know, at that time, I'm I'm grabbing my bow, and I'm keeping the tree between basically his face and mind. So I'm just trying to keep something between us and the whole time. Soon as I think he was a shooter, I just started looking at his body, you know, And I think that's what helped me really hold my composers through the whole of them. I just put that tree between his head and mind and watched his body creep in and when he got to that low sweeping limb, his body posture you could tell it change, and his his knees buckled in the front like he like kneeled down and went underneath that limb. As soon as he want to underneath that limb, I was pulling back, so I went to full draw. He comes out underneath that limb. He's got his head up in the air, and I never really looked at his a snout because I was kind of focused, like you know, peachside pins, vitals and he and when I'm looking through all that, I could just tell he was doing something. You know, how like when you walk up to somebody that's got a hat on, and you could tell they got a hat on the in a logo, but you don't really look at it like. That's the sensation I had whenever he I feel that he was looked for on, like he had his mouth open. I could tell he was doing something, but I really never focused on it. So I'm assuming he was trying to taste taste the air because I had sent bombs further up the fence row about Chanter fifteen yards up the fence row, and you know in wicks hanging on the center row, so I'm assuming the wind was hitting right in the face, so he came in from down wind, so I'm assuming that's what he was doing. But anyhow, it kind of all played out pretty quick. But he if he's standing there, he's kind of taken like like baby steps, almost like he's I don't want to say he's prancing, but he was just like pushing his hooks down. He's just like moving and he's taking up the way my shot angled. So now I have no shot. So when he when he was turned and he was kind of turning to his left, which would have been my right, and I and I lost the angle boring, you know, back through his vitals. So I just picked his spot, like right on under his throat patch and tried to look at an angle that would get down into his boiler room. So I put it right underneath the throat patch and just touched one off and it smacked, And I mean it's like you hit the side of beef with the Louisville Slugger. It just sounded so loud, and I thought he spun around and took off running. When he ran ran back to that limb and then threw a bunch of other limbs down by the lick branch, and all I could see was wrath running away. And to describe it, it it looks like when you're watching a hunting show. It's like watching an elk run away from you in no timber. He was just banging and cracking and hitting the limbs as he was running away. So he runs off and he goes I could seem go out down. He was draw by I don't know, probably about a hundred yards and I've lost. So I sat back down, sat there and just kind of thought me and what am I gonna do? Now? I know, I feel like I put a good shot on him. So I tied off my bow, lowered it down, grabbed my pack, packed everything I've got down to the basis, undid my safety harness, and got down to the base of the tree and I just kind of light up against the tree and then slid down the tree and just sat there. And I was just sitting on my butt, and I was just like just started praying. I was just like, God, if you just let me find him, I'll be in church on Sunday, you know, just anything I could say to just make it happen, you know. And and man, I just I was just nauseous because I didn't see him fall. So I get up. I walked, had enough of the angle of the cornfield standing corn in front of me that I knew he couldn't see me. And it had been drizzling rain earlier in the day, so kind of like the field edge was wet, so I could slip around here a little bit and look for sign. So I walked over and I see where he was standing, to see his hook prints, and you can see where he turned like a cutting works and fun out to go to run backwards, you know, backwards boom from so right in that area, I looked around and I could see one little white feather and I'm like, oh no, I had a one of the at the time it was Matthews had that Z light out that real white bow they already showed in the advertisements with the balloons and stuff holding it up. So I had a Z light that I bought used off a buddy in line, and I had to restring it well, I had to do everything. Had a brand new setup right, and the rest I had on it. The arrow was hitting the rest early season, and I fletched my own arrows and everything. I dipped them in white and had white feathers so I could see the flight of the arrow because that was kind of before, like lighted knocks and all that stuff was out right. So I've seen that white feather lane there. And when I was trying to sight the bow in earlier and get it all tuned up earlier in the season, I kept hitting the rest and it would slice one of the white feathers off the hawk feather. It would slice it off in the arrow would twirl and I missed the target. So now I'm thinking the whole time that smack I heard was the arrow hitting a rock or the ground. So that's like the first thing I went through my mind, and I'm just like grave puke right um. And then all of a sudden, I see this big half moon spray of blood, real dark red blood. So then I just started smiling. I was like, yes, I got an arrow anyway, So now I'm just wondering about my shot with that white feather. So I waited until dark and I started walking the field edge and it was kind of when I say I draw, it's like a grown up pasture in between the corn field and the hillside and then another fence rown and beans. So I'm walking down through this grass and like I'm going, like every ten yards I'll set an arrow. Then I'll you know, go another ten yards, stick an arrow on the ground where I find blood. And then if I started running out of blood, I would stop and I would just go little circles and just keep bigger circles, bigger circles, bigger circles until I find the blood again. Right. So, because now it's dark, because I can't I can't really see a long way and see landmarks where he win. So I got out to about I would do like, you know, four arrows lay my bow down, go get all my arrows, pick them all back up, do it again. So I basically had my bow quiver, four arrows, my backpack, and a light. So I'm heading down through this draw and I get down to the end of the draw. Well that's probably about I would guess probably two two or fifty yards and there's a fence through a high tensile fence. I get down to this high tensil fence and I hear dear blow at me and I'm like, no, that's him. So I got all the standing corn around right, so I'm like, I can't push this dear. It's him, because you know, the worst thing can happen is a combine finding. So I stuck a arrow. I just knocked it right on the high tensil fence and just left it there, packed up all my stuff, went all the way back to the truck and drove home. So it's by twenty minutes to the house. So I get to the house, I go in, I call every person I know and I'm like, man, I just shot a big deer. How big is he? I don't know. I can't tell you. He's just huge. Well what's huge big? Because you know from I being from Pennsylvania and cutting my teeth on you know, a little bit smaller sized deer that you know that's basically growing up on eggcorns and bark or whatever brows. It's I was kind of ignorant to to what a big deer is or or what a true Boone and Crockett sized deer is. So I never really went to shows, you know, I just gear shows so much. I just pretty much hunted for meat and you know, filled tags. So I get, like I said, I get home and I started talking all my buddies and and it what was sad was every friend was just, you know, go getting who's dead. The next one would be like, oh man, I'd wait, the next one will be like getting dead. And I mean, I know you got your opinion. So I'm just like, man, I don't know what to do. So literally, I sat up all night on my couch in our family room watching ESPN reruns. And I'm sitting there watching ESPN and it just lets loose. It starts raining. So I opened a garage door and looked out the street light and it was just pouring buckets. And I mean literally I just about driving just right there in the parking driveway. So I'm like, man, I don't know what I'm gonna do now. I'm never gonna find this here. So the next morning, my son had tests at school. My wife gets up. She says, you know you should take Andrew with you. I said, well, doesn't he have tests? And she said, yeah, but just take came went. You know, if you guys find it, just bringing back and dropped him off the school and go back and get it. I said, okay, So we took the the four wheeler and him and I went across this side this field with him, and about halfway across, I kind of knew where I needed to go, and I could see the high tensil fence and I could see with bnocators, I could see my white fletchings hanging on the fence, so I knew kind of where I was at. I'm looking in that direction just past the fence, went to top the fence and ditter up on the hill worth the deer blue and my sons like dad, damn, like pulling on my shirt tail and I'm like, yeah, he goes he's right there. And I got down on his level and I could because he was just a little guy. Then I could see across the field and I could see up in this this crick bottom. He was laying right there. So, you know, Loe, Andrew was just my best buddy at that point. Man. And uh, we get over there, and uh, this deer jumped the fence. He was twenty nine paces from where. I'm not the era because I paste it off what he was counting. Ammers. So I walked from the fence over to the deer. It was twenty nine paces and I said, I means he got buddy, and he said forty one. I said what I said, dude, you ain't gonna pass your test today. And he started laughing, Dad, forty one. Well, in Pennsylvania, you know, a lot of guys will probably tell you back in the day, if you can hang a wedding band on it, it counts as a point. Well, he was counting everything you can hang a ring on, and there was forty one, you know, points on it. But there wasn't that many scorable points, you know. But and what what an adventure with him? You know, what what was that feeling like when you actually saw him. I mean, before before this, you had just thought he was a big buck but when you walk up on him and he's, you know, this unworldly monstrous buck. What was that moment? Like, well, you know it was It was funny because where he died, he had he looked like he had run into like this. Now, how farms will cut down trees in their pasture, woods and they're like stack it up along against the tree. He fell into one of those and knocked one of the pieces of wood off and it was wedged in between his rack in the in the tips of his times in the back, and he he had his head like upside down, like his bottom of his chin was facing towards the sky. So I like was trying to get this. Literally, I had to like kick this wood out of his rack just to get it to get him spun around. And when I did that, I picked him up, and he was so heavy, and like I said, man, it's you're talking about, you know, somebody that's never killed giant beer before. I didn't know what to think. I mean, I just thought, holy cow, I never dreamed that they would grow this big around here. And I mean he was just a giant. He just heavy, like his his rack was, his head like everything was heavy. And I was just like, holy cowvit. Yeah, I don't know, man, it was just it was it was really cool that, you know, me and Andrew was there, and you know, it was just barely breaking daylight enough that you could see the white on his belly when Andrew seen across the stream. And Andrew took the first and only field photo. Um it's it's floating around on the internet somewhere, but it's it looks dark. But I mean back then it's like CAMRA's one, you know, aren't what they are today, you know, and it just looked like a dark picture. And man, just all kind of ruders start flying then. But I mean it was just it is what it is overcasting in the woods. That Um, yeah, it was just a really good feeling. Obviously, you know, I just aired the biggest deer in my life. But I still at that point, I still had no idea what I had. You know, I drove while I walked straight over to the truck, got the four wheler come over, loaded him up, you know, getting back to the truck, got everything loaded, and it just so happens that the Division of Wildlife is a checking station. Back when we had to put metal tags on our deer Well. It was on the way home their their district office is right here in Zenia. So I just swung in there and asked him to take mountain tagget deer well. It was flenty of the guy. The guy who worked there at the time, his name was Dan also. He he went out with a clipboard and he said, you know, how many points is it? He come out from behind the counter and I said, I'm not really sure, but I think it's thirty eight. And he said what and I said yeah. So he went out to the truck and I had like an F one fifty, was looked up a little bit and climbed up. He was a little short guy. He climbed up on the back of the truck and kind of looking down in the truck and part of the racks sticking up above the truck because it was pretty wide, you know, deer. So he's looking in and he's like he's like trying to count, and he's like holding his chin, like he down again and like trying to figure it out, and he starts scratching his head and he just like dropped his clipboard and everything and just jumped down off the truck and took off running back towards the building. I was like, crap, what's going on? Didnt want of them fall off? Or what what's he running for? Well, he came in and then that's when it all started. Like he's literally the guy that took the picture of me in the back of the truck holding on the drop times. So and then from there kind of exploded, like everybody in the division went out and started looking at it, and then you know, it wasn't you know too much longer after that. I mean, it's just like everybody starts showing up at the house and just phone started ringing off the hook, and it just stopt busy. Yeah, I got a question, did you when you went into hunt this property, did you know that this buck was there? Or was there rumblings by the neighbor of this buck in the area. Uh? Negative, As far as me seeing this bucker, knowing the buck was there, As far as neighbors, I didn't know anyone out there. So I just got permission At hundred fifty some acres of property that split by a road. Once I had woods, once I had field wide open field, a little bit of wood fence row and woods on each end. So I never really talked too many of the neighbors got you so. So obviously, killing a buck like this is incredible. It was a once in a lifetime experience. I'm sure it was an amazing time. Um. But you also talked about like rumors that happened and how all this kind of exploded and all this kind of stuff where there's some downsides to this whole thing too. I mean, did this cause a lot of stress in your life or were you able to kind of get past that pretty quickly? Well, you know, I always, you know, give my wife the most credit, and you know, obviously my kids they got older, but you know, my wife being she's a good woman, and she keeps me on up straight and narrow path, you know what I mean. So I as long as I've got somebody behind me that helps me deal with the day to day when all this happened, that's where we that's how we kind of dealt with the stress. We kind of made it fun for the kids, like, hey, we're gonna go to another show this weekend. You're ready to go, you know, and then after you know, sho has been seven, sixteen years, seventeen years now, it's like you know, nobody wants to go to shows with normally it's just like it's this old news round here. But yeah, it was. It was pretty stressful and hectic at first. As far as downside, UM just not not really being able to talk to anyone that this has happened to before. Like I couldn't I couldn't call Marker Dan and bounce you know, questions off of you like hey, you know, should I do this deal? Or should I should I go to this show? Is this a good show? You know it's so far you know whatever? How the lock and I had no one I could bounce y of that stuff off of. Um. Milo Hanson, Um, great dude. When I met him for the first time, you know, it was it was like you know, meeting the ball players, you know, a pro Um. I just man, I really picked his brain a lot, and he was so helpful. Gordon Whittington from North American White Tail, I'm sure I would hand down he had to be the most health initially of anyone in the industry. Um, that dude is just so full knowledge, it's it's just ridiculous. Yeah. So what is what is the financial gain if someone shoots a giant buck? Like everybody, everybody is always wants to shoot one. But I mean there's also an opportunity for you and your family to make some money off this, uh, this endeavor. What's what's that like? Walk us through at a little bit. Oh man, it's just more taxes, you know now, I'm just kidding. Really, I'm just playing. Um, it's it's just supplemental income. I mean, I worked for the phone company before I shot this deer, and I'm still working for the phone company and willing to take that next step and jump off the ship of for me, responsibility with my family and holding down a full time job with benefits to be a provider and give her to them unless you're willing to, Like, if you're a single guy, you probably could have went and made a career out of, you know, hunting shows or having your own show, having your own podcast. Now, I mean, technologies change, but um, it's always changing. But I don't know, it's it's it's tough because I never really wanted to like what happens if if band shoots Shipwreck and it scores wor oh four, you know, or three oh seven, then what happens to to Mike Baby trying to provide for this family, and is you know it's white. So that always like lingered in the back of my mind, like I really need to watch and really tiptoe what I'm doing, try not to paint myself into a corner, so to speak, and and just be a little bit more you know, responsible. I guess I guess what I was asking was you were getting paid to take him to shows and showcase this buck to crowds of people, right, sure, okay, alright, cool? Yeah? No, And and you know you you basically at that point, um, if it's an attraction, it's a draw for the hunt for the public, right, So that's right for a promoter would would contact me and they would say, look, you know, we'd love to have you as a draw for our show. And you know, I would say, well, okay, what you know, what is the compensation package for this this weekend or what have you? And it would just throw bunch of stuff out here, whether it's room and board, you know, food, lodging and X amount of dollars per day for shows. I mean, it's it's probably no different than not. I I tried to kind of compared to like Kevin van Dam from from the b A S. S Tour, you know, just mat. So it's just it's kind of having somebody there that's done something that everybody wants to hear about. So you're just draw at that point. So so I'm curious. Um, Mike, I've got a buddy who killed what at one point was a state record white tail um for the state he was hunting, and he very shortly after killing that buck, you know, just like your dear, it gained a lot of notoriety, um, a lot of people talking about it, and it ended up negatively impacting his hunting because people found out where he killed that buck, and everybody wanted to hunt there, and so there's all these other people kind of flocking it in his spots. Have you experienced anything like that, whether it be right after you killed the giant or in the years since, do you have an issue with people always trying to get in on your stuff or losing your hunting ground or anything like that? Yeah? Oh yeah, I mean it's still happened to this day. Sam Galore is still trying to hunt in my backyard, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, I'm just kidding. Yeah, it's still happens, and I'll find properties, and you know, it's it's kind of sad in a way because I get it. People want to hunt deer, and some people know that where the deer was killed. Some people don't. They just want to hunt. So you know, I don't fault anybody for trying to take up this sport. I mean, we need as many hunters as we can get. Um. The public properties around here are just overrun. I mean it's kind of like Pennsylvania. It's just it's tough to find a nice secluded spot where it's not pressured. Um. So yeah, there, that still happens to this day. All right. So we're going to take a very brief break here for a weekly segment with white Tailed Properties, and I let our producers, Spencer new Heart take it from here. This week with white Tail Properties, we are joined by Dave Skinner, a land specialist out of southern Kentucky, and Dave is going to be telling us about affordable habitat improvement. You know, the biggest thing by a chainsaw and or if you already on one, put into use, uh timber stand improvement is a is a great way to improve habitat and it'll pay your dividends from the timber value UM that that has increased by going in and removing those inferior trees. UM. Reducing the canopy increases the sunlight and the farest floor, which naturally grows cover. That also equals food UM. And you know the big thing is right now, do it now before spring green up so that you're going to get a flush of growth UM this summer and spring as things are growing. If you'd like to learn more and to see the properties that Dave currently has listed for sale, visit white tail properties dot com. Backslash Skinner that's s k I and and e R. And finally, we've got another quick update from our partners at Huntera Maps about the recently launched Huntera Mobile Map. Here's Hontera founder Ben Harshein with more details about their new digital offering. Well, the mobile map has three important features to it, and the first one is that you can drop pins for any points of interest. The most common ways you would use this would be marking all of your stands, trail cameras, blinds, scrapes, rubs, any of those points of interest. You can drop pins on the mobile map, change their color, label them, group them together. All kinds of things that you can do with labeling your point features. The second thing that you can do is measure distances in areas. So if you want to understand how far a certain shot maybe, or if you want to understand how big a certain area is, or a certain shape of your thinking about the designing the shape of a food plot a couple of different ways, and you want to understand the acreage of it, you can do that with the measure tool. And then third, which is what is I think the most exciting, is that it has GPS tracking ability, And what that means is that because the map is GPS enabled and it requires zero cell service anywhere in the world, this will work as you walk around. That little blue dot will follow you well when you're doing GPS tracking and you hit start as you walk, it will trace that track. It's insanely accurate and I actually used it last year whenever I was grid searching for a deer that that I shot, that the infamous pork buck. I shot him on November seven and ended up tracking him on November eight, and I used this feature to determine where I looked for him and where I didn't. And the reason is because the property was the area of the property that I was on was so thick that I was literally crawling through briars. So, uh, the GPS track will tell you where you went. And another really cool application, and it's applicable right now, is that it is we're in the thick of shed season and you can have this map on your phone and literally know everywhere you've walked for sheds and where you haven't yet. So that that's really cool. There's endless amounts of applications with the GPS tracking um and it's uh, it's definitely the ultimate. What we think mobile maps is the ultimate navigation and scouting tool. To learn more or to customize and order your own Hunterra mobile map, visit hunter ra dot com. That's h U and T E R R A And from now through April seventeen, while you're done, listeners can get ten percent off their total order and a free mobile map with every print in map order by using the code wired w I R E D. That's ten percent off your order and a free mobile map. And now we will get back to the show. Yeah, imagine that's tough. So so let's fast forward a little bit. We've been talking about two thousand. But um, you mentioned a couple of things that you did during that hunt that you realize now we're maybe mistakes, you know, like hunting the same spot over and over and over, some things along those lines. So now it's been fifteen, sixteen, seventeen years, and I know you've continued to kill some really nice mature bucks. So I'm curious to hear, Now, how would you describe your hunting style today and how has it changed since that point? Oh, it's it's it's it's very different now. I still the only similarity would probably be that I still to this day where I hunt it's mainly fields and centers. So a lot of people that come here and hunt with me, Um, they're just shocked that there's not very many woods. So I try and and hunt funnels, pitch points. And it has changed tremendously because you know, obviously, you know, you try to try to become a smarter hunter, especially as you know, get older. Um, but I you know, I don't know, like maybe uh like postseason, like you know, season just ended here, you know what a month ago, almost two months ago now, and and I I'll get out and I'm trying you know she had hunt right away. Um, just to see you know what what made it? Um, what's in the inventory for the following year. UM. I try and still run cameras a few a few weeks, it's not a few months after the season, just to kind of monitor the deer herd to see what kind of shape there in physically and if if they if they run down and like stressed out, if you would, um. Scouts for you know, new trails and betting areas do a lot of stand removal and maintenance, you know. And this is all right after season has ended, within his first couple of months before Turkey season. So and then spring, you know, I I focused a out on water sources, um throughout the spring, summer and fall. Um. If I have a farm that doesn't have a water source, I make a water source. Um Uh. Neighbors probably think I'm a little nuts sometimes because I'll run twenty five gallons of fresh water to every one of my water tanks every week. And I try and try and give my dear a fresh water source, a healthy water source. Can you can you talk about how you make those watering holes? Sure about have strokes? You know? As I get older, Austin. Um. I just know, seriously, I just take a you know, like a hundred gallon rubber mate tub and I'll dig that in to where it's sticking about sixty eight inches out of the ground, and I kind of just keep it full water and then I've got lines on it down to you know, I know what line is is twenty five gallons low. If it's not low, I'll take a bucket with me, and every bucket and I'll dip water out and then i'll fill it back up. Um maybe once every three weeks to four weeks. I'll put mosquito dunks in it and like out algae tablets, like I try and keep the water for like I don't like mosquito larvae in my water. I'm trying to keep good, fresh, clean water, and I fill it with well water every week. So are you doing this primarily just as something to you know, help provide a healthier environment for the local deer and you're just hoping you're going to stay in that general area more so because of it, or is it like these are specifically placed near stand setups because you're hoping to catch a deer coming into to drink there when you're hunting a little bit of both. I mean a little bit of both. I'm not I don't know why, you know, just quirky. I guess I just I've never really shot a deer as he's drinking, like always let him drink and get done and then you know, put an arrow during whatever. But um, but yeah, I I typically do it just for the health of the herd. Um, that's mainly all I do it for. Now. Are they strategically placed that I can utilize them in to my benefit? You know? Come fall? Yes, Okay, have you seen a director like a direct result in the health of your herd because you implemented these drinking stations? Um? I believe so well. I would like to think so. Um, we haven't had an outbreak of like you know, e h D or blue tongue or any of that stuff that and uh, you know, I went to Division Wildlife down the road and I said, before I started, I said, listen, here's my plan. I want to start a water source from my dear. But I don't want to take any chance of giving giving them any type of disease. So what can I do? When they asked me what I was doing, and I told him, and they said, listen, you're probably giving them better water than what they're drinking out these streams around here. So that made me feel good. So I can tell you that that our deer seemed to to get through most of the summer, and like their our deer look really healthy. Like I don't know how to how to explain it than that they just look really healthy. They're thick, they're muscular, they're you know, they're just heavy. And I like to think that, you know, Ohio is food blot. You know, they've got corn and soy beans and our Falca and Timothy and I name it over just everything's all over because there's farmers. So I think I think they do sustain a little bit better throughout the year because they have fresh water and a lot of food. Yeah, it's funny you mentioned that the whole water source thing, because this is something I was actually thinking about just last night. Um, in my case, I was thinking about using these just as one more small thing I can do to try to improve a couple of my stand setups that are in these little isolated food plots. And you know I've already you know, the first year when I put these food plots, and I was I've got food, and then a couple of years later, I was trying to ferret ways to tweak a little bit more. And now I've planted you know, fake scrape trees in that food plot to try to get a deer to possibly come into shooting range a little more likely with that. And now this year, I think, you know, one more thing I can do is I'm gonna put in some water, some little water tanks in each of these spots to just you know, maybe it's gonna give me a one percent better chance that the day I'm after might choose to come in here during daylight. But um, that's something I'm gonna try this year. So it's interesting to hear. Let's work for you? Oh yeah, yeah it it definitely has. Um. I'll kind of pick a day of the week that works for me, um to go water. And uh, that's typically when I check a camera if it's you know, if it's an s D card that I gotta change out, you know, obviously if it's wireless, and you know, I don't mess with it. But um, but I'll try and pick a day and then i'll just I'll leave the quad running while I'm feeling, you know, fresh water. And I don't stray far from the quad like I don't walk around, I don't go anywhere to look for more sign I already know the deer there and get pictures of them. I'm not stressing them out. I'm not correcting them. That to me, you know, every time you get busted, that equals pressure, and in my opinion, pressure equals little to know mature deer encounters. If that makes any sense, Yeah, it definitely does. So can you elaborate a little bit on You mentioned how you're using trail cameras there and you're being careful, but when you check them, can you tell us a little bit more about the specifics of um you know, how you're using those cameras in the summer, and then how that changes during the hunting season, and then again, you know, maybe how are you changing where you place them, how are you doing different things differently? Well, I mean, you know, it's no secret everybody. Everybody tries to get pictures of their dear you know. And and my thing is I try not to go in more than I have to, Like, I definitely try and not the pressure of the deer um in in the summer. Um. It's a little bit different because, like I said, I'm filling water and I'm like the deer pattern us, right, so they probably pattern us more than we patterned them, no doubt. So I try not to do anything other than do what I need to do and get out of there. But I try and let them know that I'm they're leaving the quad running um filling the water. I'm I'm praying that. My My thought process is that that that's training the deer to know that there's water there now or you know that you know. So, so when I train them to know that there's water there, then I get out of there while I'm there. If it's an s D card, I'll change it out. If I'm right beside it and I'm wearing rubber rubber boots that's sprayed down, you know, or haven't touched anything, but they're um. So I try to not leave in a scent, not pressure to deer, try and train them when I'm there. When I'm putting out there there you know, alternative food source for minerals in the summer, or water h fresh water, and then you know, I get out of there. Well, I you know I've actually seen like I used to do this this spray. Like when I would start a brand new site with cameras, especially out of state, I would take like a a sprayer, like a bug spray, I guess, or a long sprayer just uh one you would carry with a little handle, push down handle pump, and I would I would mix up. I would I would call it boody juice, but I would mix up like you know, concentrates to like I would almost bring to a boil like bananas, um apples, uh pairs sometimes uh. Sometimes I'd mix in like grape juice or great uh kool aid mix, and I would make up this mixture of concentrating and I would mix it with water when I get down to wherever these uh new locations were, maybe out of state for an example, and I would spray down everything as high as I could reach all around me. And I would literally have dear on that camera within twenty minutes after I leave. And it was from spraying down and getting the scent in that area, that sweet aroma and scent, and they were curious. They would come out and they would start nipping at the leaves that it was on, and I would just get a bunch of pictures within you know, twenty minutes to half an hour after leaving that location. M so. So to answer your question, I used the cameras on field edges H new locations around the water, uh, new locations out of state, you know, like a new set, just to see if there's anything in the area. Initially, UM, and then obviously I keep file after file after file on the computer. UM, A couple of different files on the phone of just pictures of deer that that may be on you know, my hit list. I guess you'd call it. So then I would just take inventory. And then as the season goes on. UM. You know, maybe I'm not if I'm walking by that camera, I'm checking in. It doesn't matter if it's two days later or two weeks later. If I'm walking by, I got an extra that Steed card in my pocket and I'm flipping switching out those chips. However, if I'm not walking by it, and I really want to think that this, you know, this location is getting hot because I can maybe see it from the road or or some some way. I just feel that this is this time of the year, this this location really gets hot. I'll go ahead and go in there at night. That way, if I bought my deer, they're not bumping over onto the neighbors and getting whacked in the daylight. I bought them at night, and then they typically don't know what I am because I want to flad, so they just run off. Sometimes I have a head lamp, I don't run off like thirty forty yards and just standing on watching and I'll change out the chip and they'll come right back in and come around there and start beating the boot water whatever. You So, when it's when it's time to go hunting, are you using that four wheeler again, um, so they feel comfortable or are you now dropping the four wheeler and making I guess a normal walk into your tree stand location. It depends. It depends on where it's at in a situation. Obviously, some places you don't want to take the quad in as much. UM. If I don't have a reason to have a quad in there, I won't take the quad in there. If it's I typically always walk to my stands UM. A couple of years ago, I started riding a bicycle once in a while, but it's just it just kind of gets cumbersome because you know where I'm riding, it's not really conducive to trails. But you know, you can't really ride through a bean field, you know what I'm saying. So but yeah, I just I'll lose the quad. As far as when it comes to hunting time, I'm walking. UM A big thing with walking, you know, I've I've learned. I keep learning, you know, we keep evolving technology. More technology comes out, and the more I learned. UM, Like, you know, I know you guys are familiar with city gear, some of them their stuff. I layer now. So I'm a big fan of layering now and I've learned that through working with the guys from sit to so as the season goes on, I'm carrying more and more layers in my pack. And my big thing is when I'm walking in and I tell you I'm walking and not using a clod anymore, I'm not getting all you know what I call skunked up. I'm not getting all sweaty stinky from walking and sweating because I'm walking in thin layers. And then as the temperature dropper to even gets here and the sun goes down, I just throw another jacket on or a vest or the shacket you know, whatever I have in my pack. Speaking of them, Speaking of excess, you mentioned that a lot of the spots you hunt are big fields and fence rows and stuff like that. So I'm curious how do you handle access to those types of locations, because you know, I imagine a lot of the situations is kind of tough to get in there without having to walk across the fields sometimes, whether it be in the morning or in the evenings after you hunt. How do you deal with getting good access and excess strategies in those kind of wide open environments without blowing everything out every time you're going. And now, well, the first thing I do is I obviously start hunting from the fringes, and you know, I just stay out of wherever I think the core areas at, or I make a core area, I stay out of that unless it's dark. If it's dark and I have to go look for a deer that you know, a family member, a friend is arrowed or has drawn blood on blood on, then I'll go in there. But I only go in at dark. I won't won't go in there in a daylight. So that's one thing I hunt the fringes. Um Obviously, I only hunt when the winds in our favor. So if if the wind is not in our favor, I can't go in that way. I can't not that stand. So and as far as access, I try, and you know, talk to the neighboring landowners to maybe park on their property and just you know, just get a trespassword right or whatever you want to call it, where I can just staying access to walk across one of the sense wheads to get to my fense road. Then slipping, you know, I call easy of access whatever the easiest way in, the easiest way out without being detected. Yeah, that makes sense. Do do you ever have to um? You know, I get this question a lot and I've had to deal with it too. Where you've got deer out in the field and you know, how how do you how do you deal with deer around your stand? You know, when you're done hunting, do you just wait it out and wait till they disappear? Or do you do things to try to spook them off without them realizing it's a hunter? Um? How do you handle those such of situations? It just like I said, it depends on a scenario. But you know, most of the time and mornings, I just wait. I just wait until they move off. Um. If it's late late morning, I just wait. I just don't get down. I don't spook him, I said, as still as I can. I try not to move. Um as far as evening once it gets dark. Um, if they're still fairly close and there's you know, just a few does out there, what have you'r a couple of small bucks. I'll take like a water bottle and chuck it piny air away from me and let it hit close to them, and they just scatter, and then eventually they'll just walk off. They typically don't blow like, they just they don't know what it is, and they run off and they just stand there and they just know off the other way. Yeah, Yeah, that seems like the ideal is is to get him a move off without them realizing that there's some type of danger close by. But man, sometimes that's easier said than done. I've had a few times where I've tried things like that, throwing things or making the coyote howl, And you occasionally get those deer that just get curious and then they just hang out and keep looking out and looking around, and that can end up being a long night. Um know that I've said an hour past dark before waiting, and they just threw a water bottle and they still don't leave, and I'm still waiting. And then you know, of course now you're thirsty, big daddy who steps out and you know you can't shoot, you can't all my gears at the base of the tree already lower down. I just can't move, So I still sit there. My wife will be texting me, phone blowing up. Unfortunately, you just gotta sit. Yeah. Yeah, speaking of speaking of big daddy of the big buck, what what kind of goals do you have now, Mike? Because you've killed you know, probably most likely the biggest buck of your life. So now when you're hunting, is that you're just looking for a certain size or age of a deer or do you hunt for a specific buck? Or what's your thought process there? Now I kind of change it up. I mean, you know, you gotta make it interesting for yourself. You can't, you know, get away from that. And I haven't at this point. Um, I always looked for an older deer. I mean I'm not you know, I don't have you know, the acreage at some hunters have where I can let a deer grow to six seven years old? I just I just don't have that. UM. I try and take inventory of of the deer herd, and I typically try to go for the biggest buck, but get that bigger buck is only three and a half and the older bucks four and a half or vice versa. You know, bigger bucks four and a half and the older bucks five and a half. I'll let the bigger bucks go to shoot the older bucks in most cases because I want them to get as mature as possible. UM. I had both instances this year, and I left the deer walk he was five and a half. At four and a half, he was an eight point with one drop time it was about two inches long. At five and a half, he was an eight point with four drop times, so a twelve point and all four drop times were you know, the longest one was like three an the other one were like two and one inch. And I didn't want to shoot him. I had him at one of my water tanks for an hour in front of me in video the whole thing, and I just did not eat him because I wanted to see what he would be next year if he grew. If you want from one drop time to four drop times. I thought, holy cow, what what's he gonna be next year? With you know, five or six inch drop times? He's going to be a stud you know, just something to really right about. And unfortunately the neighbor shot. Yeah. Yeah, So in a situation like that, though, let's let's hypothetically say that the buck didn't get killed by a neighbor. You you got pictures of him maybe after the season, and now you know he's the deer that you really want this coming season. What would your you know, I know you've described kind of generic things when it comes to scouting, but what would your hunting season strategy look like if you're going into the two to two thousand seventeen years, it's opening day and you know that buck is alive? How would your season kind of progress? How would you be thinking about things if you were after one deer like that, Um, I would say I would probably um still hunt the fringes that well before she's come in. I would absolutely be scouting from a distance and just getting as gathering as much intel as possible. Where the deer's coming out, what field, what corner of the field, what was the win like, what time of the day was it and so on. So I would be gathering intel and I actually carry like a little I don't want to say, a diary, you know, but just like a little notebook and I'll flip through and I'll just start writing down like the day time, what what deer encounters I had, And I do that typically every season. It just stays in my pack. So I, uh, I would do that first, and then you know, second, obviously I would be making sure my my trail cameras. If I'm picking them up on one their farm, um starting to shy away from checking that trail camera once a week and less once again, I have to refill the water tank. If he's coming to the water tank and he's drinking out fresh water, I am not changing any tactics. I'm staying on that water once a week, checking camera. And then you know, I may end up having someone come in fill the water that day when season comes in and I slip off the you know, the quad and up into the tree watch running and then he takes off and leaves. I've done that before. Yeah, So I mean it just it just really depends on the situation. But but yeah, I targeted uh, not this past season, but season before. I actually targeted about a hundred and sixties some audience ten point and I knew where that deer was living. I knew we're he was sleeping, um all from a distance getting really pressuring, and I hunted on the fringe and what you know it early season he comes walking by on the fringe right past the two three I was in and all kind of cover. You had no idea I was there, and you know, double lundon six yards later, add my hands on him. That's that's awesome. Can you can you tell us about um you mentioned you're in in a cedar tree? Can you talk about the things you typically look for in a stand set up? You know, is there any type of tree or is there any type of you know, do you like to be up at a certain height or things like that that you like to particularly try to make happen when you're putting a tree and stand or standard in tree. Yeah, yeah, I well, there's a there's a couple of things when it comes to stand place. It's like like I'm not afraid to pick a day in a you know, in the midsummer when it's really hot, middle of the day, like I'll spend most of the mid day setting a set. Like I'll go out. I already know kind of what tree I want to get in always, you know, put my sticks together on the ground, lay them up against the tree. On one section. I'll take a rat to strap around the tree and ratchet it down. Then put the strap on for the for the step the climbing sticks and sent it down tight. And then pop the ratchet strap. And man, that things really sent down tight against the tree. It's no loosey goosey stuff, right. So I spent a lot of time doing that because I want to be as quiet and stealthy as possible climbing in and out of that tree. I don't want anything creaking, crackling, none of that metal popping. Um. So then I get up in the tree obviously you know, I've got like a lineman harness, and I throw the rope around the tree and belt off, and then I started hanging my set. I hang my set, get up and then start trimming my shooting lane. When I trimmed my lanes, I take my time, and if I have to climb up and down that tree fifty times, I'll do it. But you know who needs cross good at that point, right, So I'll I'll take on trim and shooting lanes and then you know, pack it up of the day and get out of there and not have to worry about messing with it anymore. Yeah. Yeah, that can be uh, that can be frustrating when you're a one man person, when you're single person trying to deal with shooting lanes and you're growing up and down, up and down, up and down someone. Yeah. Well, the other thing I do too is when I'm when I'm turning those lanes, Um, I I typically don't cut the tree limbs all the way out of my way, Like I'll just almost like it's almost like hinge cut him. I'll just cut him a little bit and let him fall down just enough out of my way. And I don't like I saved as much cover as possible. Yeah, make sure you stay hitting up in that tree. That makes sense. So, yeah, because once to get I'm in the Midwest, I'm in open fields and fence rows. You run out of cover really quick when fall gets here. Yeah. Yeah, bet so you talked about earlier how a lot of the beginning part of the season you're focused on the fringes and sometimes like that one year two years ago, that works out and they you're able to get a shout out of deer early in the fringes the type area. But what happens when you get to the rut um You still haven't killed a buck yet down there. You talked about funnels and pinch points um briefly, but can you elaborate on what your run hunting strategy looks like, what specifically like, what types of funnels are pinch points are you actually hunting down that part of the country, and what other things are you doing at that time of year? Well, mainly mainly the contour the land would be my what I would base my funnels or pinch points on. And the I used the fence roads to my advantage. So the deer are going to travel as spence roads are fairly within bow range of those spence roads keep from going out into the open fields. So you know, once again, I only hunt when the when the winds in my favor, and you know it doesn't really matter to me. You know how much scent control you practice, you still you know you a deer can breathe in one breath and you know he's breathing in like five or six different sense that he can tell apart. So I'm I'm practicing good scent control, you know, um, just making sure that that I'm in an area that the wind is in my favor the best. And then as far as like you know, I used cover sense like um during the rut and and even preseason, like if a deer's gonna smell me, I would rather smell something else that gets their mind off of me and my sense, even though I practice good scent control. Um. We were talking earlier about you know, layering like my I learned so much on you know, I was telling you, I don't know, a couple of weeks ago at that show where I see you at about an Alaska trip, I dumbfounded by how Marino Will worked with sent control. So now I apply Marino Will to my base lay or my skin layer, and I'll take like two sets and I rotate them every hunt, and in every two weeks, I washed them in nonsense soap and air drying and start to process all over again. So I'm really trying to practice good scent control by by using that Marino War with my bass layer. Right, So then I get in well, what if the deer can't smell something that's it's not quite right. I don't want it to be my smell, so I try and mask that smell. So I'll use a covered sin and i'll use a covered center like poon urine. So raccoons are from coast to coast, They're they're everywhere, right, So everywhere a white sail that you see a raccoon. So I'll use raccoon urine. And I call it like three points of contact. So I'll put a spray at at my feet level, at my waist level, and then above my head if I stand up in a tree. So but I put the year raccoon you're in on the actual tree. I never sprayed on my person because I don't want to contaminate my clothes at that point. You know what I'm saying. And so I'll use cover sense. And then when it comes time for rut, I'll use flower sense, what I call lower sense. I'll use like Sam's got some tremendous urine at uh, this is dough to the do and heat. I'll use that occasionally on like a drag rag or I'll use it with sent wicks and place them about fifteen feet apart in like a triangular pattern or a square, so where it's it's blown like a bigger sheet of scent if you would down into like their bedding or up a fence row. And then every once in a while I've had some luck to using the land mine, which is a bottle of urine is berried, so I've had some luck with that. I kill killed my thirteen pointition of off off the land mine. So as far as rut tactics cover sense lower sense rattling, I'll do some rattling um calling. I still do this day. Use the can from Primo us, use grunt two and try to mimic you know, a dough and a buck, you know, mating or they're mating calls to each other. Um. As far as rattling, uh seems like earlier in the season, I just kind of tinkle the antlers together and get you know, a little bit more aggressive as the season goes on and it gets into rut um. I typically started at the top of the tree with me like hanging on my pack and just tinkle one together, like right before dark or something. It just to me it mimics a couple of younger bucks just kind of sparring out there early season, trying to you know, shoulter out who's gonna be the man. And then you know, sometimes it will work where a nice, big, mature buckle just step out and see what's going on. And then as the season gets closer to rut or in the middle of right, like, I'll rattle y'all, tinkle it first case ups close and I want to scook them off, you know, so if nothing's close and the thickets around me, then I'll start really getting on them with the with the antlers, and then I'll tie them off to my pull up rope, you know, prior to rattling, and I'll just lower my pull up rope down to the ground and then I just just like I'm jigging while I'm fishing, i just pull up and let him fall and let him hit and flash together and leaves and man. That's that's been a really good tactice for me. Hm. I've heard about people doing that and I've never tried myself, but it makes sense. I mean, there's you get that added noise of the leafs and different things like that, and then you you got that sound right down there at ear level for deer. Um, that's that's interesting. Um. Yeah, and they come and they come in, they come in quick, and they come in with their head down, looking down and set it up in my general direction. If I'm rattling in the tree. Do you use decoys or anything at that time of year? Um? I have and I have never had any luck in this area with decoys. Um. It kind of turns my dear side out. I mean I've tried everything from you know, different you know, uh manufacturers of decoys. I've tried different decoys. I've tried you know, white uh like tissue paper or something on sent it on on the tale to give it a little bit of movement. I mean, I've tried it all, and it just seems like there's always like that those one or two mature does that come out here that just go inside out and they seem to just want to stand there all night and blow out, and I'm just like I'm done. So I I typically don't use any I tried hard for like four or five years. I really gave it a volume after it and just no luck at all. Yeah. It always does seem like one of those high risk, higher reward types of things and uh, I always worry about that risk too, but uh but when it happens, I finally had luck this past year pulling it off. It was pretty cool when it all came together. But there are a whole lot more unsuccessful attempts before that. So I get where you're coming from. Yeah, I mean, you know, and then you see like staying pots still sit out there, and I we're in Illinois. Man will just come in there and just they'll get in a bar fight with these decoys and I'm like, where's the does you know why aren't they blowing it to me? Yeah? Yeah? So uh so Dan, what are you thinking over there? What do you want to know? Well, all this talks got me, uh getting fired up for this upcoming season, right, So thank you for After this podcast, I'm gonna go, you know, try to have a conversation with my wife about something that's not deer hunting, and in my head, I'm gonna be thinking one thing and saying something completely out right. I guess I do have a question though, for you that moment you killed that big buck right back in two thousand two today and and learning what you've learned and you know, adjusting your tactics and you have your your own you know, the path that you take throughout a season, and listening to other guys maybe tell their story or talk to you over the years. Do you think there's one particular thing, um? And not necessarily one, because I know as as bow hunters we make a lot of mistakes and we have to be able to learn from those mistakes. But do you feel that there is a common mistake um, the average hunter makes throughout a year that um that if they just maybe tweet to that one way or the other, they'd be more successful. Uh, I would probably have to say really probably pressure. I mean, I just it just seems like over the years, if if I haven't learned anything else, it's just pressure. You get into an area where you you know, you you hunt too much or you hunt it too hard, and you just pressure the deer in general, the herd the deer or pressured. And if the deer pressured and they're not wanting to come out, and they're they're giving those reactions like they're constantly you know, looking around and and and they're not they're not comfy in their comfort zone. I never I'll never think that the big mature whitetail buck is gonna step out there with the deer herd. It's kind of uneasy or unsettled. Does that make sense? It does. Yeah, So I would have to say pressure. Um. Pressure can come in a variety of ways. Um, whether it be from you know, walking in the same trail every time, um, you know, getting in the tree every day at the same time, getting out at the same time. I mean, I see a lot of deer, Like I'm when I scan the woods before I get out of the tree, like say mid morning, I'm not literally looking in the field and seem anything can see me. I'm looking in the woods like I'm still looking for white patches. So subtle movement, a flicker of the tail, like I I've had deer stand in the fringe of the woods that they blend in so well, you know they're watching you. So that pressure could be from you getting in and out of your tree. Now you're educating them, you know, you just just like turkey hunting, you keep calling with that palm every day at the same time in the same spot. He's gonna gobble, but he's gobbling looking for another you know him. He's not gonna come into you. You're educating me and I feel God do that with deer using the same call all the time, the same rattling sequence all the time, you know, just change stuff up, don't be afraid to to. You know, we're evolved, be smarter. You've gotta be smarter than the deer. So, so that being said, you've gotta start thinking outside the box, and you know, maybe not listen so much to Mike Batty and rattle up in a tree. Maybe maybe getting the ground rattle on the ground, you know, hunt I have a ground blow and just change stuff up. Yeah, it's a great point. Um, speaking of these different lessons learned, um, I always find that one of the best ways for me to learn is hearing about, you know, specific applications. Um. So you mentioned you killed a thirteen point of this past season. Can you tell us what you did on that hunt or what whether it be on that hunt or in the days leading up to it, what about that situation led to you killing that buck? How did that all come together? Well? Um, I, first off, this particular spot, I actually had a cell camera in and I didn't have to go in there as much and it wasn't as pressured, So I think that that led to some of the success on this hunt. UM. Second, I went in with the intent of setting all day. UM, so I didn't want I got into. I always seem to get in an hour hour and a half, sometimes two hours, maybe even a little more, sometimes before daylight. And it just depends on where I'm going. Like if I know it's a good spot, I'll get in and I'll pour everything up, and everything is set up, and you know, you almost I almost can feel like each spot because you spend so much time in it throughout the year, Like I can almost feel like I know where I'm putting the bow hanger, where I'm hanging my pack in this particular set, and what side I'm pulling my bow up on, and and so on. So I try to get in as early as possible and try and get set and be quiet, like set in the dark and I can't see anything, not even my hand in front of my face. I don't use any lights, UM, no lights going in, no lights coming out. UM, gloves and masks on going in and out. You know, I'm a Caucasian guy. It's you know, a bald guy, and I'm pretty white, you know, and that suns out. I don't want it glaring off my beam, you know what I mean. So I'm wearing stuff that because deer can see at night too. So I'm I'm trying to slip in undetected and slip out undetected. And you know, if that means I said all day in in the best spot I have, I will, And that's what happened with this thirteen point I ended up. I was gonna set all day. It was kind of right before Rutt was kicking in, and these bucks were cruising and they were just trying to go for betting to betting, trying to find a hot dough. Um. I actually had three or four does come out run out of this thicket, and I thought, man, here he comes, He's gonna be behind him, and they would just by themselves and they just come running through and mild off and I'm like, what the heck, where's he? What scooped him? So of course we have a big tim tyote issue here. I believe in Ohio, just like most states anymore, they have no creditors here. So I'm thinking maybe some coyotes, you know, clumped them out of the ticket. So I'm looking at nothing. So you two or three times out and set in the past few years with bow, and I figured when we was gonna come step and grow. So I get up and I grabbed my boone and I'm just getting ready waiting on an them shows up. So I sat there for I don't know, probably know fifteen minutes. That's up in front of me. There's there's a little bit of a thinker of a food plot in this edge of the stick it and there's I put one of the land mines in and I don't know if you guys ever seen him through this, a small bottle of urine, and they got a whip on them, and I just altered out a hole, slide it down and pack around it and pull the wiout in the scents there what I can only use that in specific areas that I have active scrapes, Like I won't go make my own scrapes. I try not to do any of that stuff, like if it's not made by a deer, I try not to really mess with it or try and make them go there, like I want them to go to their natural areas and make those scrapes and scrape lines. So on this particular area, there was like four or five scrapes right in a row. So I picked one of the smaller straits and set this thing up. Well, I put a camp that wireless camera over it, and I had you know, four or five nights bucks coming in there, but one was thirteen point pretty good one. But anyhow, I ended up by I heard something coming from behind me, and I turned around and look. Before I could get you know, you know, arranged in the tree, he just like kind of gold the right out for an eathom. He shot out for anthem and he stopped and looked around, went over, got a drink and went over worked that that straight or the one next to it, and then walked into the thickot. It was an eight point probably on and I was like, yeah, gon, just enough to get your blood helping, you know. And I was just like on pins and needles, and then he left. I had along my hunt's gonna be over for you know, until the heating saw. I sat back down. Of course, you gotta set set all day, you gotta you gotta get a comfortable stand. So I had one that had textboom the crops on with really like So I was sitting in this stand and um, probably another five or ten minutes went by and I heard from behind me it sounded like squirrels playing in the leaves. Before I could even turn around and look off, running through the thickest part of the fens row and shot right out learning me close to where the eight point came out, and it was that thirteen point, and he just stopped right in front of me and like five yards and just was looking around into the thicket, like standing the thicket up into the thicket, and I mean I already have my bow my hand at that point. I just was like, man, dude, it's your unlucky day. I mean, he was right there and he just you know, he's probably mid one sixties, so I just like, boom, he's done day. You know. Yeah, for sure, for sure that encounters were it wasn't so so easy, you know, and I've learned from it. But this year went off thought it hits pretty easy. It's nice when it all comes together, that's for sure, no doubt. Yeah. So so I feel like there's a ton more we could talk about white tails. Um, but before we wrap things up, which we need to hear pretty quickly, I wanted to make sure we at least heard a little bit about the story you told me this past couple of weeks ago. You were telling me about your Alaskan hunt you went on this past year, and it's not like that was just amazing. Um, could you tell us a little bit about that hunt and uh, and maybe why an Alaska hunt something we should be thinking about someday. Oh dude, It's like it's like where we were at it was like God has never let anyone walk up through there before. It's like literally untouched turf, and it's just it's just amazing. Every the only way I can explain every every place in Alaska, it seems like every direction you look, it's like a different postcard, and like you just can't get enough of it. Like even when you leave, you crave to go back just to see the mountains and just the scenery and just the atmosphere. But it's so wild and untamed, it's literally ridiculous. Um. We me and my son, my son stationed up in Alaska and my daughters in the military as well. But we uh, we drew a tag for a doll sheep tag in the top management area, which is like a one or two draw, So I mean, it's like hitting the lottery, right, So I'm thinking, man, we're gonna have sheep all over us. So anyhow, we we contacted an airline company, a taxi and they dropped us off in this river bottom. What it took us now, I'm locked in you this unbelievable. But it took us eighteen hours eight hours the first day because we didn't get in because we were socked in because of range. So we got any light eight hours the first day. We set up camp in this little white sand bar that actually rocks against this cliff edge. Then from there another ten hours the next day just to get to our base camp where we set up to start seeing sheep. And that was to two guys eight pound packs self guided. UM. I trained for ten months, twenty one days and three hours for that hunt. I mean just all in, hauling the mail every day, just as much weight as I could get on me, and hiking as much as I could. So we get up in there. And to make a long story short, it we've seen sheep. They were on the other side of the canyon. UM. And when I say canyon, it was like it was literally like a mile mile and a half across. It was just ridiculous big. So we've seen sheep over there, we've seen two shooters. We made plans that afternoon to go see what they were gonna do that evening. This was like two or three days into the hunt. Um, see what they're gonna do that evening and then make a move on the next morning and try and get up and cross the pack up camping down across the canyon stream and back up the other side. Um. So, anyhow, that evening, um too big grizzly showed up, one on each end of the canyon, and man, they just they beat everything out of the canyon. We had moose, like a sixty inch moose and in velvet um probably a four plus caribou on the other side of the canyon. They were all all the game was on the other side of the canyon, except for a black bear that actually came in close to camp, which we had a black bear tag, but we were early in a hunt and we wanted to kill our seats, so but yeah, the bear were everywhere. But yeah, we had a we had a bang up time and there was a lot of fun. We learned a lot um get much sleep at night because the bear. But yeah, it sounds incredible, and it makes me really excited to get out there. Like I was telling you, I'm tentatively planning on my first trip out there this years, so so I'm pretty pumped about that. You have a blast um if you if if your listeners do nothing else, that they can just get to Alaska. You don't have to go on a big game hunt, go on a hike, go go fishing. The fishing is phenomenal up there, and just in the little streams and rivers you catch silver salmon and pink salmon and they're just so delicious. Any single piece of advice you can give someone who's planning or going to be going on their very first Alaskan trip, is there anything you learned this past season that you wish you had known beforehand that you can pass along the listeners Now, I would say as far as like um stuff that really saved us and we really didn't think about it. It's time, Well one would be trained. You obviously need to train for for the environment you're gonna be in. If you're gonna be on a tundra, train for like spongy, soupy, nasty hiking forever to try and get close to caribou or bear. You're gonna be in the mountains, you need to train on a on a if nothing else will StairMaster with as much weight in the pack as you can get. UM as far as like gear, I think I was sharing this with you. Um we had gore pants and jacket on when it was raining one day and trying to to like hop across these little streams it's coming off these mountains. The streams are so violent. The water is moving so fast from like glacier runoffs and stuff, and there's there's like no fish in them. I mean, they're just it's like silk and stuff in there, like almost the gray. Sometimes they're clear and men. It's just so violent. So we're trying to get across these things, and we're trying to do it without getting our boots wet, because once you get your boots wet, you're kind of done. You gotta get them dried out because you don't get blisters, right, So we wore two para socks boots. And then what we found halfway through the trip was if we took the gators, UM doesn't doesn't necessarily have to sit? Is that sit that makes gators that they over top of your boots and as sticks from going up in your strings and your boot laces and stuff. Well, if you put those over top of your boots and then over top of your your gore pants, your rain your pants, and a waterproof they're literally like waiters. Like as long as you didn't stand in the water for forever, if you like got across quickly, you could walk probably fifteen to twenty yards wide. You could get across streams that wide that were knee deeper deeper as long as you didn't go over your waist, you know, and you could get across those and your boots still want what on the inside. So that would be my number one piece of gear if I was heading to Alaska, would definitely be a really good rain suit, like a Cortex rain suit, and then those gators and then obviously a good pair of boots. I think I had like lower Hunter gk X as they had a real heavy ran a rubber rain around the bottom to keep the shale from cutting your leather. But yeah, that and then you know, kill something. I guess that health well, I'd say that you have effectively gotten us pumped not only for white tails now, but also to try to go to Alaska someday, so that's a fact. Yeah, well this has been a lot of fun. Uh, Dan, do you have any final question or final thoughts before we wrapped us up? I think I'm good man, Hey, good luck this upcoming season. Yeah, hey, you two. Do you ever get to go back out to the shipwrecks shipwrecks resting place? I've I've been, I've seen the full body mount I've seen every time I go back and back home to that area, I uh, I go and visit. I go and stop by the shop and say hi to Sam. Yeah, that dude, Salt of the Earth man. He's a good stud man. But hey, it's been a pleasure. Guys. Be safe and best of luck to you guys in your your listeners. Um, if anybody shoots like a three or seven, please email me. I'll be able to see it and touch it. Yeah. Maybe maybe someday we can do the same with you or is that seems like a pretty incredible dear. It was an awesome story, So thank you Mike for for sharing all this, not only that story, but then also what you've been doing in the years past. It's been awesome, So thank you, yes, sir, Thank you guys, I appreciate you, and that is it for us today. Before we go though, big things to our partners at Sitka Gear, Yetie Cooler's, Matthew's Archery, Maven Optics, Whitetail, Institute of North America, Carbon Express, and hunt Terra Maps. And finally, thank you all for listening. I hope you enjoyed our chat with Mike today and I hope you'll stay while you're don