00:00:02 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast. I'm your host, Mark Kenyon. In this is episode number sixty. Today in the show, Dan and I are bearing all and discussing our greatest failures and mistakes while deer hunting. Enjoy all right, welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast, brought to you by our friends at Sick of Gear. Now today on the show, it's just me and my co host Dan, but it's still going to be an interesting episode, I think, because today we're pulling all the skeletons out of the closet and sharing our biggest failures, screw ups and mistakes while deer hunting, and trust me, there are plenty of those to choose from. When you say, Dan, I'm glad you finished that sentence with wild deer hunting, because this could be a really long podcast. It was even more than that home if it was life in general, that could be like a seventeen part series exactly. But we've got a lot to talk about him the deer hunt in front too. M HM. Can I want help you for a second. Yeah, go for it. I checked my trail cameras this weekend and you didn't. I know. I'm super jealous too. Yeah. I had a pretty decent poll, not my best pull ever, but um, I have one buck that hit is back from the past four years we've been chasing him, and he's pretty identifiable by some kind of sickness or infection he has on his back legs. I'm not sure what it is, but it doesn't seem to be affecting him much. Um, he's back. And then I got a pretty pretty cool non typical picture that looks like he could be a giant as well. So I'm pretty pumped to see uh the next card Pool next month. Yeah, man, that's awesome. And you gotta kill Ryan Iberg because that buck he looks the buck Buck. Okay, not your friend, Fred. Ryan's a good guy, but that you know, like you said, that thing going on with his back foot or is it both feet now? Yeah, yeah, he's had it. He's had both feet for three years. This is the third years had it. You gotta take him out of his misery. Yeah, he's a deer too. Now that otherwise that other big non typical could that potentially be the one only Yep, that could be Mark Kenyon. I'm not sure. I think I have it narrowed down to two bucks. It looks like he's gonna be fairly narrow. I mean, he's gonna have a lot of mass. And it would be another buck that I've been watching for the past couple of years called and I've named him dork. But he he has an extremely huge body and not you know, last year, in the year before, he has some good mass to him and some non typical points, but you know, maybe at most one yeah, for a size range um this year he could blow up to who knows what and uh, but you know it's way too early to tell. You can only gas at this point. Yeah, he's got big split brow time's coming on right, Oh, he's got one one brow has a triple already and the other side split and who knows what else it's gonna do. That's awesome. I love split brow times. Alright, here's a question, Okay, what would you rather if you were you know, if we could be picking here, would you rather shoot a buck with split brow tigns or split g Two's m I passed a buck with split brow times once double split brows, so I guess I would I would rather have a really deep split in the G two and uh because that reminds me of shipwreck. Yeah yeah, those split G two's are sweet. What about you? I go through this all time. I mean a couple of my friends, like whenever we're driving to our hunting properties or down for a hunting trip, we always like spend a good half hour to an hour going through these different like which would you prefer scenarios? And this is a tough one always for me, but I think I'd probably have to go with big split G twos. Um. I love them all. I love all that kind of non typical character, but split G twos are just cool there, I mean especially cool. Another thing like, I would love matching flyers off the G two. It's like like a big, massive eight point with matching flyers off both two twos. That would be that would be sweet. I got a trail camera for my birthday in two thousand and six. It was like big batteries had to use film in it, flash and all that stuff, And the very first time I got pictures developed, I had probably a hundred forty class buck with matching flyers off his backside. That is sweet. I lost that picture. It kind of pissed me off. That's a super super sweet buck. What about do you prefer super wide bucks are super tall and tall and narrow? Dude, I love wide I love wide deer, the kind that can't walk through corn rows because they're antlers. Are you know, getting in the way all the time? I love wide bucks. Was a sweet For some reason, I've got a thing for the super tall and narrow ones though, like I still haven't had even had a really good encounter with like a really massive, thick horned, tight and tall buck. That's that would be sweet. Um, that's your id. Old buck is tight and tall with a split G two. Well, i'd say tight and tall. I don't get real pick here, cover say tight and tall. But like lots of masks like I love, I love a buck. It's just like heavy horn so heavy horned we'll call him. He's he's a heavy horned eight pointer but like twelve inch G two's thirteen inch G three's um, but he's maybe only like thirteen inches wide, and he'll have deep splits on his twes but then flyers off of his twoes as well or maybe flyers off his G three's. Um, that'll be that's the one I'm looking to shoot this year. You're not, buddy, Yeah? Thanks? Oh you can dream, right, that's right, that's right. Yeah, so you got your trail camera poll. I still haven't seen any where. I haven't been able to check, but I am itching bad after I saw you post yours and I see different people pope, and there's online I'm getting itchy some Like I said the other day, I'm I'm starting to watch my deer hunting DVDs and shows online and oh, just dreaming, just dreaming. Uh, did you do anything exciting up there on your little vacation that you're on. It shouldn't have called little you're gone for three months, but uh, anything cool going on up up in idaholl Yeah. Yeah, we've been doing some fun stuff. We spent the last five days, I think, over on the other side of the mountains from where we live, on the east side of Grand Tetown National Park. Spent some time with my wife's family and did some cool hikes, did some kayaking and some gorgeous mountain lakes. So that's been cool. Um, we're heading a Yellowstone in a couple of days for an extended stay there and gonna do a lot of fly fishing hopefully and see some buffalo and all that. So it's been good. It's been a lot of fun. And I'm gonna start doing some big backpacking trips here soon too, so cool. I tell you one thing, I will probably be kicking your ass in the mountains this this fall because I'm gonna be doing nothing but hike in the mountains for two months. So I know you're working out, and I know you're being good shape, but I might be able. I might be a little ahead of the curve on you. Damn man. I wish I could simulate the thin air and these inclines that you that you're gonna be hiking in. You just can't. I don't care how how many squats I do or reps on the StairMaster. You just you cannot simulate actual environment. Yeah, and it definitely is different. I mean, you just have to get get acclimated and and roll of this. So I got I've got a little unfair advantage. I realized, Well, maybe you'll break your femur and then we'll be even thanks a lot. I have been having a really weird. I've never had any issues with my legs or knees or anything, but I don't I can't remember if I told you this or not. But when I was in in Montana in April, UM, I strained something and like one of the tendons. I know nothing about human anatomy, so the tendon or ligament or something behind my right knee. And ever since that point, it's been like my whole leg has started to feel weird and like just like kind of contorted. So UM, I visited, well, no, I think I hyper extended whatever that thing is behind my knee, whatever ligament or tending that is, and so I went, yeah, that that might be it. Um My buddy is a chiropractor, so he took a look at some stuff and it sounded like, you know, that might have been issue, and then like my hip and my hip and knee were kind of out of I don't know. He did some adjustments, and I've been doing some different stretches and some different things and it seems to be better. But I was getting really worried that, uh, that I might mess something up and that would mess up my hunt's fall. But it looks like it's doing a lot better now. So it's rub some dirt on it, some dirt, some dirt. So my grandpa always said, if we ever got hurt, fell down, had to cut rub some dirt on it. Did you ever, there's some stand up comedian who always talked about how it is like dad or his grandpa, like, whenever we had an issue, he always said, spray windex on it. I don't remember what who that was, but that was that was his recommendation. But we're rambling, Yes, we are rambling. We should get what are we talking about today, Mark, Yeah, we're talking about how we've screwed up our different mistakes are different failures, Um, Because you know, just like everybody else listening, you and me, we've made plenty of mistakes over the years. Um, hopefully we've learned from a few of them. And so I thought we could do today is kind of bear all and share some of our biggest mistakes and failures with listeners, talk through those, and maybe between the two of us we can figure out some things that we could learn from those, and maybe well I'll learn something along the way too. So I've got a lot of different examples, and I had, like some that are you know, specific instances where I made like a screw up in a specific encounter. And then there's other times where I, you know, realized that I've been making a larger mistake over a course of years, um, and then I finally kind of realized it and changed, you know, how I was hunting. So there's a lot of those types of things that over the last you know, for me, over the last five or six years, UM, my hunting style and what I do is changed dramatically, UM. And it's you know, it's resulted in you know, dramatically different results from a success standpoint too. So there's been a lot of things over this last half decade decade and a half decade UM for me where I've realized I was making a lot of mistakes and change that. So we'll talk through some of those things for me, And I'm sure you've got some good examples too, right, Yeah, I've been making mistakes. You're hunting every season. Every season, you know, there's no such thing as a perfect the perfect hunt, or the perfect season, because there's always something you can do better. In my opinion, yep, I think I don't think anyone can argue with that. Well, why don't you start it off, Mark, I think it's a good idea. So I've got a whole list here of different ones. Um. But maybe for me, one of the biggest mistakes that I think I made for a long time was related to I mean, we've, you know, to degree, we've talked about this in different little bits and pieces, but maybe we can take a larger stab. But it is this idea of hunting too much, getting too excited. I always depended on the fact that I could hunt harder. Um. You know, for me, it's never been an issue of you know, am I willing to put it in the hours or the time or the the days, Like, I'll hunt the crap out of it, and I will hunt hard. I will put it as much time as possible. But I've kind of realized that sometimes that can be a mistake in some cases. You know, if you are hunting every single day, but if you only have to stand locations and you're hunting those two stand locations the entire season, that's actually probably doing a lot more harm and it is good. Um. So for me, I started realizing that hunting smart is a lot more important than hunting hard. Sometimes ideally you want to be hunting smart and hard at the same time. So you know, an example this would be you know, I, well, this is one perfect example. You know, as I think I had mentioned to you. For a period of time during high school, Um, the only place I had to bow hunt was behind my parents house, and that was three and a half acres of land. So I was working with some real small, real small piece of property there. But I was like, I'm gonna hunt so hard because I want to kill a deer. And you know, for me, it was like if I put in the work, it'll work. And so I had like two possible places I could hunt on this three and a half acres, and I hunted like every single day I could possibly hunt after school or on the weekends. And of course, you know, the first day I went out there, I think, you know, in early October, I saw maybe six or seven does a couple of young bucks. Um, day two or three, I maybe saw three does, Day four and five nothing. And then that would be the case all the way until maybe early November, when finally you start to see some things. And I think a lot of guys have that experience, right they go out in the early season, they see a good number of deer, and then it slowly gets worse and worse as you get into October. If you know, if you start hunting in October, and you know, that's where this October lull idea comes from. That we've talked about a lot um and a lot of times. While there are some reasons why there might be some type of luw, a lot of that is hunter created because people like me at that time, we're hunting really hard, and then they educate all those deer, they spook all those deer, and then when they don't see the deer anymore, they're wondering, oh, this must be this lull. The deer aren't moving anymore. But actually it's because we get a little over eager, hunted a little bit too much, maybe didn't hunt smart enough, educated those deer, and now they're starting to move different places, or wait till after dark, or a lot of different things. So I don't know, that's one that's you know, it's a very common mistake. It's something we've talked about before. It's something a lot of people I'm sure listening have you know, at some point in their hunting career experienced and then learned from, but it's one that's worth mentioning just because it's maybe the For me, it was maybe the biggest realization and the biggest change um in my hunting philosophy was when I kind of wrapped my head around them. So, I don't know how about you does that? Is that something you've experienced or learned about it all? Yeah, And you make a good point when you say hunting hard versus hunting smart, it's two completely different things. In my opinion. What I really get a kick out out of is you know, the social media out there and you hear guys go, nobody hunts harder than this guy, or nobody hunts harder than the next guy. If you're gonna if you're meaning time in a tree stand, Uh, there are thousands of guys who are hunting as equally hard as you. You know, just because, as we all know, just because the the end result ends in a buck doesn't mean you're hunting hard or not. I know guys who will go out and hunt maybe five six times a year and lay a big buck down every time because they hunt smart. They wait, they know what they're doing, and they go in at the right time with the right wind. On the right access and they're just you know, they're patient, and that's just like you man. That's one thing that I have not I'm a hunter. I love to hunt. So if I know there's a big bucket area, but he's coming out after well after dark. And this is one of my actual mistakes is being being aggressive and not using my head and going into an area to chase a buck who's not showing up on a particular trail camera until like midnight, knowing I'm knowing not going to see him, but I'm going there in there anyway. That's it didn't really click for me. I was just kind of wishing, you know, on a whim, maybe he'll show up tonight, maybe he'll show up, and instead waiting watching my trail cameras and then coming out with you know, going in when he starts getting real close to the sunset or real close to the you know, the sunrise. Yeah, it's tempting when you know that they're in that area, it's super tempting to go in there. There's a there's an article on Wired hunt um where I shared some stuff from Bill Winkie who wrote a really great article, and then he shared some different additional responses with me and Wired Hunt regarding this very topic about the idea of understanding quote unquote nocturnal bucks or when buck might be acting nocturnal and you know, being smart about when you start hunting him. Um, I'll make sure to link that in this blog post because there's there's some good stuff there. And like you said, it's if you're not getting daylight and action either that you're observing or that you're getting pictures of, or if you've got really good intel, a really good reason that you think that they might be moving in daylight, you're just hurting things when you go pushing into these areas where you're you're gonna likely spook a deer or leave sign of your presence and you you never had a chance to see him anyways. So right, I think for me, it's you know, it's funny back, Um, I don't know, six years ago, maybe, um, when I first started Wired to Hunt six or seven years ago, Um, you know, I was super gung ho. I wanted to be hunting all the time. And I think I hunted something like I don't know, ninety times during season, Like I hunted every night and hunt every weekend. I could possibly get away. Um. And then this past year or I think it was not two four teller would probably be m true for two as well. But two thirteen was the first hunting season after I quit my job, my old job, um, and I thought, Okay, I can't hunt whenever I want. I've got no you know, hunting is my job. I can go anytime I want. But because that point, I had learned that I want to be a lot more selective. I'd rather hunt fewer days with the right conditions versus more days. You know, Willie Nielly and I actually hunted significantly fewer times in two thousand thirteen than I did, you know, back in two thousand nine or whatever, um, even though I didn't have a regular day job. And it was because I realized it made a lot more sense to hunt fewer times, but on the right times, um, And the predict the productivity of those sits is so much better when you're hunting smart. Um. I think I'm notes. I don't remember where i'd heard this, but the the analogy of a drone strike, every hunt should be a drone strike. You should have you know, done your intel, you've done your research, as you have your intel. You should have a very specific reason and a very specific location of where you think you can make that strike, and then when the conditions are right, you going like Swat Team six and you kill him. That's how I tried to approach my hunting now versus this, you know, shotgun approach of hunting everywhere I can all the time and hope that something goes right. Right. I'm I'm kind of lucky. I have a lot of property that I can hunt and when I when it's hunting season, I will be in a tree if but I'm gonna be smart about it, you know. Like I've always said, if you want to feel like killing something, go kill a dough. You know, in my area there's plenty of those, So I want to I'm gonna be hunting. If I'm not after a particular buck, I'll be in a place where I might be able to hunt, you know, a dough coming to a food source or um, you know, a transition point, you know, because there's always I want to fill my I want to fill my freezer, and at the same time, observation stands as well. So I am I'm always looking for as much intel as I can get because dreel cameras don't tell you as much as your your eyes do. So I'll go out a long ways from the area and see. You know, if it's real thick, you know, you really can't do that. But you can set up on a field edge that's a hundred two hundred yards away where you think of some deer might be entering or exiting a food source, and and just set up shop there and know that you're you're not going to kill anything, but you will gain information that will assist you moving forward. Yeah, that's a great it's a great point, and I think that's it's that's the ideal situation is being able to hunt. You know, have have enough spots, enough properties or large enough property where you can have your killing sits and your killing stands and only hunt those in the right times. But also, you know, if it's a Saturday morning and you want to be hunting, but the conditions aren't right for those killing stands, you still have other, you know, plan b spots where you can go hunt just to enjoy yourself or to observe, but those are in places that they're not going to screw up your really killer spots. And that's that's the best situation. So you know, I hear a lot of guys or you know, as we talked about last week or the week before on the Challenge episode about how you know I this, you know, in relation to this exact thing, is why I don't hunt many October mornings because I have limited places to hunt, and because of that, I avoid a lot of October mornings because I don't think the conditions are right or as ideal as it can be. In a perfect situation, i'd have more places to hunt so that I could hunt October mornings in areas where I have they're lower risk, where I'm not going to mess up my best spots, but I can still get out there and maybe have a chance of something or kill a doe or something like that. So you know, really the best thing is to get access to more properties, so you have these plan B, plan and C fun hunts where you you maybe aren't gonna screw things up, but just still can get out there. Right, And that's kind of a good transition into one of my mistakes that I used to make back and you know, probably two thousand seven is when I started doing it, but everything previous to that or maybe two thousand and eight, but everything previous to that, I would see a good piece of property from an aerial map or some kind of platbook or see it. You know, I'd be hunting on a property and then see deer movement on another property. And I never took the initiative to go out and and try to access that property. And and I had one of the biggest bucks I've ever gotten on trail camera, come two years in a row coming to this one property, through one property, but it was mostly nocturnal, and I knew if I had access to that property, I might have a shot of you know, killing him. But I never took the initiative. And then he disappeared the third year, and I kind of sat back and I go, hey, man, the worst thing they can do is tell you now. And I know a lot of other guys, you know, and listen listeners of this podcast have kind of have mentioned in you know, social media that they kind of making the first step is the hardest, but once you do it, it it all become it's easy. Yeah, that's and it's something we've talked about a lot before, but it's just it's so important access, you know, just like in real estate, location, location location, you can't kill them if they're not there, right. That was one of my biggest mistakes too, and it's still a mistake I make. Even though we talk about it here and I preach it all the time, I still sometimes don't go out and do as much as I need to do when it comes to getting new propertis. I need, I need. I need more hunting properties right now. I need to get off my tail. I need to knock on some more doors. I gotta try to find some spots because I'm lacking. I've lost a couple of spots of Michigan. I only have one decent spot on one and a half decent spots in Michigan. Now, Um, I'm not spending as much time hunting in Michigan anymore, but I still really should get another spot or two in Michigan. I only have one spot in Ohio. What if I lose that spot, I probably should be trying to find another spot in Ohio just in case. Um, But you know, it takes time and takes the effort all those things. So I gotta get off my button do more to um. And also this summer, UM, when I'm driving back from Idaho. I'm gonna be stopping in Iowa and spending a day knocking on doors there to try to find some properties to hunt this fall, because I'm hopefully gonna be drawing a tag this fall for Iowa and I gotta find someone hunt, so I'm gonna be having to do that work a lot in the next couple of months. Nice. Nice, have you been looking at maps and looking at areas? Yeah, I mean I've I hunted there a couple of years ago. UM, so I know they are pretty decently well. And I've got a few friends there that I go shed hunting with most every year. So I know a couple of areas that I want to do some door knocking, and uh, there's some public land I could access to. Um. So I've got some ideas. In the next month or so, I'm going to fine tune that. I'm going to come up with a list hopefully have ten to fifteen different properties and landowner names and addresses. UM. Have that all lined up. So when I drive through, our plan is to you know, get in um like early afternoon, my wife and the dog is to go to a campground and I'm just gonna spend an even knocking on ten fifteen different doors and hopefully come up with something. So good luck man, thank you. If that doesn't work, I'm just going to sneak in near property. Cool man, I'll shoot you. Perfect. So anything more on access other than the fact that you'll shoot me if I try to access yours, No, I mean, it's it's you know, specifically gaining access. Um. You know, I have certain properties where I've talked to the landowner two to access a certain tree stand. I'm not allowed to hunt on their property, but I'm allowed to walk down a two track and cross the creek and get to a tree stand. So it's even something as simple as that can make a world of difference, you know, So you're not walking all the way through a property as opposed from you know, I had to say it, but ruining their hunts potentially as opposed to yours. It's a great point, and a lot of times you you won't even be ruining most sometimes these people's sounds because they might not even hunt their property. So there's lots of times where, like you said, just taking the time to ask can really change how you can hunt property just by walking through somewhere else. Yeah, that's a great point in and those landowners lots of times will be a lot more likely to say yes because oh, you're just gonna walk through for five minutes. Sure, go for it. Um. This guy, he only shot gun hunts. So that's why I have acts, that's why he allows me the access to, uh to do it. And you know, someday maybe if I prove my worth, I'll be able to bow hunt his property someday too. That would be nice. Yeah, really nice. So let's uh, how about another mistake of mind. Here's a specific a couple of specific examples where I messed up on a deer um and then kind of a larger thing to take away from it. Um, I don't remember if I had told this story. We've talked so much this episode sixty, so like well over sixty hours of us telling stories, So I might have told this one. I don't know, but UM tell me if I have. It was November second, I think no, Actually, I take it back. I had hunted November one and second on this property in Michigan, and then I went to Iowa for a week and then I came back, so it was like November ten or eleven. I came back and the buck called Leaner. He's a deer that I've talked about before. Um. At this time, he was a three and a half year old. It was two thousand and twelve, I think, and I've been sitting there hunting, and long story short, a couple of those came in. He surprised me all of a sudden, turned around and forty yards away from me, this buck was right there, Leaner and I couldn't move though, because he was so close, so I was frozen. And then he finally moved away and he started moving through some tree cover, and by the time I was able to move around and get turned around, he was out of range and moving away. So I had to grunt to him. I think I have told you this story. I'm kind of remembering this now, but long story short, I tried to call to him and I did a couple of grunts. Try to be aggressive with a couple of grunts. He didn't care. He kept moving, So I'm panicking. He's getting farther and farther away, and I I was gonna do a snort. We's so this time, I in my head, okay, do a snort wise now, but this is the grunt tube that had a snort weeze tube and then a regular grunt tube. Instead of using the regular snort we'se tube which is just a funnel which amplifies the snorting sound. Instead of doing that, I snort wise through the regular grunt part with So it just was like this horrible It was really really really bad noise, very loud, and scared the crap out of Leaner and he took off running and I didn't see him again that year. Um, So that was a huge mistake I made. In a specific instance when I was trying to call to Leaner, I you know, rushed it, wasn't paying attention when I was doing And I probably fordid it because I'd already tried a couple of calls before that and he was going and he wasn't. He didn't give a rip about it. I still kept going. Now, fast forward to the next year, two thousand thirteen. I'm hunting in the exact same tree stand. It's about the exact same time of year. I think it was again like around that November eight November twelve, and he pops out again. Now this year, instead of three and a half, here's a four and a half year old. He's in the one forties awesome Michigan Buck and he pops out maybe a hundred yards away, and he's feeding down in this corn field with a couple of dolls. And he starts moving my direction, coming towards the same exact spot where I had, you know, snort weez through the wrong way at him, And again he's cutting away from me, not coming towards my location. So again I'm getting, you know, nervous. I want him to come my way. He's not coming my way. And you do something, So I grunt. He looks, keeps going. I grun again, he looks, keeps going, keeps going. I grunning in I think I tried rattling. He keeps going. It's further and further away. Snort weezed at him, this time with the right tube. Um. I threw everything I had at him, and he eventually ran off, and it was, you know, it's overcalling one oh one. I was, you know, panicking. I wanted so badly for this encounter to turn into a shot opportunity that, even though I knew I shouldn't, I kept calling, hoping that one of these tricks in my bag would finally work. And you know, as I think we've talked about before, eventually, you know you have to realize one enough is enough, and you're gonna start hurting your chances of having an account over with that buck rather than you know, having something finally work. I think overcalling is something that many of us do. It's easy to do, and it educates his deer. It's it definitely impacts those deer. And you know, I had now overcalled to this deer twice from the same exact tree stand, and I never ever saw him again from that tree stand, and I think that's a big part. I think that a big part of that was because he was start to put things together and realizing that there's a really loud duck sitting in that tree and it's not somewhere he wants to go. I have overcalled so many times that it would it's hilarious to even talk about I've ruined more hunts because of calling. And I ruined uh a hunt in I shouldn't say I ruined the hunt because he had caught my wind, all right, So he immediately stopped and this was with a typical twelve pointer, and he caught my scent boom stopped. He was looking around. He took a couple of steps backwards, and he started to walk away. It was the rut. So I started, I rattled, I grunted, I snort weas and the snort we's got his attention and he turned around, coming back to me, you know, basically just to look in the area. And then I never saw him again. So that time, and then a year later, another deer walks through. Um, he walked through the osonics calmnists can be. But then he had the wind advantage even though he was out of the osonic stream, and my scent and my scent stream I grow on it. Just one simple and he was gone because he knew there was no deer up there because he had the wind advantage. And that was with like a hundred seventy eight pointer that megatron. Yeah, so those are those were two examples of times where it's like calling statistically isn't going to do the trick. You have to be able to put yourself in the right location. And if it deer is gonna have your wind at any point, you can't beat their nose. Man, I don't care what you have in the tree with you. So I don't know. Man. Now, the next season, I was hesitant to call, right, So I was just, you know, I don't want to ruin it. I don't want to ruin it when the whole time, a person shouldn't be trying to observe a deer's body language. Yes, you know, if they're making a scrape, if they're raking a tree, they're in a little bit more of an aggressive mood, and you might be able to get away with calling at them. But if they're alert and they're coming in with their ears pegged forward and they're really observant, do not call at them. So you have to learn, and you know, I learned the hard way unfortunately, but you have to learn when to call and when not to call based off their attitude. Yeah, very true. And and then also you know also the time of the year, they're, how they're reacting, what the area that you're hunting in is. Like, you know, in certain areas that there's tons of hunting pressure, you might want to be even more tentative when it comes to calling because they've heard so many more from other people. UM, So you have to take a lot of factors into consideration before calling. Um. You know, it makes it. If you watch ads on TV, you know, it seems like calling should be any buck that comes by, I should be all grun it right in um. But it's not a magic bullet. It's something. It's a tool that works that helps sometimes, but more times than not, it might hurt than it will help. So you need to be smart about when you use that tool and how you use it. And a lot of that comes from just, you know, experience like we've had you over the last decade, seeing these deer and what works and what doesn't work, and when we screwed up, and when when we didn't screw up. Um. For me right now, I've got kind of a general set of rules for myself when it comes to calling. You know, if it if there if a shot, opportunity isn't going to happen. As you know, I would rather have a deer just come in on his own, with no calls on my own. So if he's coming my way, I'm not gonna do anything. I'm not gonna try to speed him up. I'm just gonna let him make his way. Let's say I know for sure he's not coming in, I'm willing to try one, you know, for me personally, start with contact grunt. Just do a soft contact ground and if that gets his attention and he's intrigued by that, I'll just stop. Ye Now, if the first try doesn't get his attention at all, it seems like he hasn't heard it at all or doesn't care or anything, that, I'll give him one more, but a little louder, a little more aggressive, just make sure he's hurt me. If that doesn't work, still hopefully it's hopefully that does something. But if that doesn't, then I will try snort we's. If it's the right time of year, if it's during the rut when a buck should get aggressive and we'll be rolled up by another buck, you know, challenging him, I'll try snort weis and after that I'm done calling. Um. I might if it's the right time of year, I might substitute a contact grunt with like a can call for a doan estrix. If it's that time of year, I might try that too, um, but kind of you know, there's always different situations and things might fluxuate, but that's my basic process. Um. If there's a deal that's really far away, I might try rattling instead. Of that calling sequence because that'll carry farther. Um. But I've I've decided I'm not going to do the try every single call over and over and over again until he disappears. Um. That's just not that's not helping man. One of the coolest things I've ever seen while an entree stand was I watched. It was probably late October, so the time for calling was getting getting good, and I was in wide open timber, so I could see a long ways and it was fairly I was up high, and I could kind of see that, you know, all the way around me. All right, So I saw a buck oh hundreds so yards away for me, maybe even a little further, and I rattled at him. Okay, it got his attention. But I watched this buck make a complete circle all the way around me without closing any distance. He made a giant circle all the round, all the way around me. This was before I was using any kind of set control. Got my wind, it came out. The only reason I saw this buck is because the timber was so wide open. Now, I imagine if you're if you're blind calling and it's in a thicker timber, you're not seeing anything coming through these these deer is ingrained in their head to get to get get positioned before they enter the area, unless they're so horned up they can't control themselves. Yeah, I think there are a ton of deer that we never see after calling, but they are winding us. They're they're aware of us. They circled down wind and they wind us and we never know. But we spooked to deer without you know, having any idea. I think that happens a lot. That happened so much, And that's what I don't do. I don't do. I do some, but I don't do a ton of blind calling anymore because of that unless I've got a really good set up where I don't think I'll get winded or word dear just can't get down winded me or something like that. So the only time I will grow up is now is when I see a bucket that I that I want to shoot. Yeah. The only time I will rattle is if I see a buck that I want to shoot, or sometimes I will blind call, and that is only if I am seeing a lot of movement. If you're not seeing a lot of movement, blind calling is not movement. Is kind of an indicator of if there could potentially be other deer in the area. Yeah. Yeah, a lot a lot of mistakes that you and me have made, and I'm sure a lot of other people when it comes to calls. Now, before we move on to the next mistake, we need to pause briefly for word from our sponsors of this podcast, SICKA Gear. On the last couple episodes, we've heard from Dennis Zuck, the white tailed product category leader for SIKA is he's described why SIKA does what they do and who they've designed their products for. Now, this week, we're tackling one of the most popular questions I get about SICCA, and that is why is it so expensive? So here's Dennis answer that very question. That's a great way because it costs us so much. Is there is the right answer? Um? You know, so when you look at our products, if you know, the trained eye looks into that and looks at the primal of materials, the wind stopper materials, you know, the the high end zippers we put in our products. Materials is the first part of that answer. It's the materials and choosing only the best materials for what we're trying to accomplish. Whether it's the wicking layer, whatever it may be. UM. And then it's the details, you know, and it's the process, you know. It's it's that two years of development we put into our products, the details we try to we try to make sure they're the the making sure that we're working with the best factories, they cost more, you know. All the things are for us about making sure that the last question we ask in our processes, well then how much did that cost? And I know that's going to be really funny for for folks and especially funny for all of us people in business trying to you know, make make a dollar. But for us, it's really where we we believe if that's our first question, then we'll design around that question and we would rather create products for the fanatical guy. And to do that, we're going to focus on the technology and the best product first and the details first. So there you have it, sick gear building gear for white tail fanatics by focusing on the technology, the product, and the details. Now back to the show. What what about next? You get another one you want to want to touch on? UM? I used to I used to play the wind too much? What do you mean by that? Meaning? I was so afraid of getting busted that I would playing my hunts based on the wind blowing right in my face in the complete opposite direction where the deer were coming from. So now that I know a lot more about how dear move and how terrain affects that I was I was hunting completely all wrong. The deer were actually going to be heading away from me. They were going to be using the wind blowing into their face, catching the scent of where they're going, or working a ridge. That is uh, you know, Let's say I'm sitting on top of a ridge and I'm looking down at a valley or a creek, and the wind is blowing in my face going up up the hill, I would never see hardly any deer because I was afraid my scent was going to get into this bottom and ruin everything. So I was I was playing the wind thinking, you know, Okay, no dearer is gonna gonna bust me in this crp field or this corn field because my wind is going right into it and I'll see them before they see me. Well, they're they're entering that that food source or area wherever areare at from a complete different direction. Because these animals are used. You know, they live and die by their nose in the wind. So it wasn't until maybe four years ago that I four or five years ago that kind of clicked. And now the way I hunt is almost getting busted every hunt. You want to you want to be in a position where if that wind shifts just a little bit, you're screwed. You have to you have to get into a position where a deer is going to come into your area and just barely not bust you. If that makes any sense, Yeah, it does. It's a big part of the big changes for me too. That made the it made all the difference is you know, I think from the way I look at it now is that yes, you have to play the wind, but first and foremost think about how to play the wind based on how the deer are playing the wind, because right, a buck is always, like you mentioned, a buck is always trying to use wind in some way to his advantage to stay alive. So the biggest thing I think we all his hunters need to do, especially for targeting mature bucks, is try to understand how mature deer, how any dear really, but especially mature bucks, how they use the and so, like you mentioned, in a lot of cases, they want wind in their face or crossing their face so they can smell what's ahead of them or wherever they're headed. Or maybe they're using the wind at that moment to send check for does or whatever it might be, or maybe they're checking their bed before and they move in. We need to understand those and you know, we've talked about some of those things in the podcast. There's lots of great articles about that. There's there's lots of resources that we can turn to to better understand how dear use wind. But you have to understand that and then apply that to your stand location and think, okay, don't pick a stand location because you're not gonna get winded. Pick a stand location because a buck should be moving past that area because of the wind. He's using the wind in that area to his advantage. And then think about how you can set up in that location where he's using the wind to his favor to just barely cut the corner, like you said, to hopefully not get winded. Because if you're in a place where you're never gonna get winded, but no bucks ever gonna walk through at that time, well, that doesn't do you look good. So that's been a big thing for me. And we actually, um we posted a couple of things they on our Facebook pages of video with Todd Prgnans that's a really great resource about this. And then we shared an article on weird Hunt from Dan Infalt who has a podcast now where he talks all about using wind and thermals um And those are two really good resources that will link to that that talk about this exact topic. The other the other thing is a deer's a deer's nose is so good they don't need to see a threat. Okay, So they're using these ridges and they're not exposing themselves all the winds coming off these ridges down into these bottoms and there and there, and this is an example of where I hunt. You know, big ridges um coming off you know like a food source or a pasture or a CRP field, dropping down into a crick or a valley, and they're just looping like halfway down these ridges or one third up or down off these ridges to where they're not exposed at all, but they can scent check everything up top. And the hunters are hunting up at the very tops, so they're gonna be out of range if you do play the wind correctly. So you gotta get in there. Let the wind and this is one of my best hunting spots. I now, let that wind hit my back and blow my scent down into the bottom. These deer aren't in the bottom. They're up on the ridges, so they're coming. They're coming halfway up right right into my location. So they're using kind of a ninety degree degree angle to catch the wind coming off and by the time they catch me, they're already in my shooting line. Yeah, those are those killer spots. Yeah, for sure. I UM, it's a tough thing to figure out. But this is something that um that in Fault mentioned on his podcast, which if if you haven't listened to it, make sure you listen to it. There's a link on wired to Hunt right now. UM and he talked about how he uses milk weed to understand these types of locations, to understand what the wind is doing and how the deer using it. So you know, if you use a little bottle of powder, you spray that and it shows the wind direction. That only shows you what's the wind, what the wind is doing right next to you. But if you use milk weed or a little tuft of cotton or whatever it might be. You can actually watch that drift ten yards away, fifteen yards away, and you can see what it does way far away. And so in like your example right there. You know if in the past you might have said, oh, I can't hunt here because it's blowing down wind of me, and if about comes through there, you know he'll get my wind. But as it sounds like you meant you saw that, these deer where they do come through the wind, you know they won't get your wind yet because it blows maybe above them right and then drops down um. And so if you had milk weed, you can actually see what the wind is doing. So that's another good tip is is try a visual wind checker that you can watch in the distance to see how that wind changes in the distance. And you might find locations where you think you're gonna be having bucks come down wind, but maybe because of an eddie in the wind or thermals or something else. Actually you can get away with things. So that's something to try to. Yeah, and it it's crazy because this this year I learned a lot about thermals from a mistake. You know, basically mistakes that I was making. And I almost compare it to like an ocean tide in these in these bottoms and draws, it just kind of shifts back and forth until finally the heats up and they're they're gone. But I just would sit there and watch my um osonics. The same company, or Osonics, owns a company that makes a little it's I think it's actually called wind tracker or wind Checker or something like that. And I'm throwing these things out and I'm just watching these um these little fabrics hover in the air right in between where the cold air and the warm air hit, and they're just floating there and they're coming back and forth and back and forth and back and forth until finally the bottom sucks out they and they drop into the bottom. But Thermal's man and wind. It's one of those things where even if the wind is just a little bit different, you gotta be prepared to sit in a completely different tree. Yeah, it's and even if you're doing everything you can possibly do from a sun control standpoint, which of course we recommend doing, even with all your teas crossing, your eyes dotted, still sometimes things aren't going to work. Exactly right, and so you still need to be playing that wind both ways. So right, what's next? How about this one? Here's a story of when I was pretty young, um, I don't know, earlier some of my teenage years. UM, I was bow hunting and I made a mistake that I learned from to a degree. Um at that point, and it's developed in me a kind of a pregame ritual before every single hunt. Nun So what happened in this case? And again I don't know if I told us, but tell me if I did. I was hunting on the ground, as I think I've told you before back in the day, when I hunted my property behind my parents house. It's kind of laughable now. My parents wouldn't let me hunt the tree stand because they were afraid I was gonna follow the tree. And I'm not very coordinated, so I can understand about them. I had me and my dad had made these portable ground blinds that were basically just like ski poles or like a long wooden dowel, like maybe four of them, laid out two or three ft apart, and then we'd staple like burlap camouflage fabric across the front of him, and so you would roll it up in a big roll and hike out to where I was gonna hunt. And then when I got to warr a hunt, I'd stake each one of those ski poles or dolls into the ground in a half circle around where I was gonna sit next to a tree, and that camouflage fabric would cover me, you know, would cover me to my shoulders or my chest when I was sitting down, so I could move a little bit. So that was my portable ground blind back in the day, you know, fifteen years ago whatever. Um, I was bowing him early on, I just started, you know, this is early on my bow hunting career. I just started and hunting. In this bottom, I see the biggest bucket ever seen to that point. From what I remember, he was a ten pointer. Um. He seemed huge at the time. I don't know what that would equate to now, but at that time, he seems huge. He crossed acrosses the creek, comes walking across in the front of me. I get my bow ready. I pulled the bow, you know, up, so I'm holding it about the height I need to um to draw back at him. He's moving from my right to my left. I'm pumped up, you know, I third fourteen or fifteen or however many years old. There was never seen a buck like this. I'm shaking like crazy. He finally is entering an area where I'm gonna be able to get a shop, so I draw back. He takes another step. I can hardly, you know, hardly keep my heart from beating on my chest. And as he's moving to the left, I'm panning my bow along with him, following along with him, waiting until he gets set opening. As I do this, he's probably twenty yards away, so he was in with within my range. He's about to step into the opening. I'm drawn back. I'm ready. I move it a little more to the left, just to get in that range. And clunk, my arrow hits one of those dowels. Because the dowels were stuck up about eight inches higher than the camouflage fabric all the way around, and I wasn't paying attention that I hadn't thought about that beforehand. The arrow hits, the doll knocks off, the arrow, rest falls off my bow. Clink, clink, clunk. The buck sees me, hears me, runs off, encounter ruined what I learned from that and learned that you always need to be aware of your surroundings when you're hunting and about what's what you need to do and what's going to happen when and if a shot happens, if an opportunity rises. So what I do now is every single time I get into a tree, I practiced drawing my bow back, and I practiced drawing and moving in each one of the different potential shot uh shot shooting lanes that I have, so I can see, oh, hey, you're not gonna be a move here because it was a tree behind your right elbow, or hey if you try, if you try to drop back here, your tree strap to your harness is going to interfere. So now I test that every single time I go out and hunt, I test that out to make sure I'm not surprised by wooden Dallas sticking up and knocking my air off or you know, something else getting in the web. So that's been a big thing I learned. It was a big mistake I made. It probably ruined what would have been a really nice buck for my early years. And uh now though I've learned from him, dude buck Fever, I used to take it real bad um. It cost me a two inch or cost me shipwreck. You can I can say something, Yeah, you always steal my thunder. You always one up all my stories, every story I tell I saw one forty that was awesome buck for me, and then well, and then kind over the one eight, and then I talked about a nice ten pointer. I had a nice kind of two inch, Like, man, you're killing me with these bucks. I'm sorry, dude, I guess I didn't realize that. I will stop. I will stop saying numbers. No, no, don't stop. Don't stop saying numbers. Just hunt someone with worst deer. Come on, I'm gonna be the first guy to ever have you know, The Nine Finger chronicles the story of a guy who gave up it, gave up everything to move to Michigan. Not to hate on Michigan, because I actually been having a couple of conversations with three different guys and they're saying that it's actually getting better up there. It is getting better, but it's not. It's not Iowa right anyway. Anyway, I'll tell you what buck fever. Buck fever has cost me a couple of deer um, and it's it's kind of hard. I mean, it's one of those things that you have to you have to experience in order to realize it. You know, if if the biggest buck you've ever seen comes through the uh the area and you start shaking and going crazy, you know, I can tell you what to do, how to control yourself, but you're not going to remember it until you've actually had that encounter and learn from it, learn how to handle it. Some guys, you know, I think you wrote an article maybe about big buck serial killers and some character traits. There's there are certain people who just don't get worked up. They still get excited and and and love everything, but they they they become focused instead of blackout like what I used to do. And now because I've had those encounters, I've been in those situations, I can remain calm to a to a certain point. It's definitely, like you said, one of those things I think that comes with experience. Unless you're just a stone cold killer Ralph the Bat and nothing phases you for most guys. You know me too, I I still battle with that. You know, I still get fired. I'm a very emotional, excitable guy, like I Just stuff gets me fired. Up in general. So I was definitely predisposed to buck fever. And I've gotten better, but I still I still have to deal with that. I still learned from it. I still rushed shots, you know, That's one of my big mistakes. I've rushed a lot of shots over the years and still to a degree, dude. And you have to kind of learn yourself, I think, and figure out ways to develop processes to better handle it. At least for me, that's that's how I've tried to attack it. Yeah, yeah, I don't know, man, it's uh, you can't. You know. I had a whole bunch of good encounters with giant deer before shipwreck, and I think what caused me is the actual time and effort that I put into that. Dear, oh, ship it's happening. It's happening, it's happening. Instead of I'm ready, I'm ready, I'm ready. It just kind of the moment caught up to me. And you know, like they say in all sports, act like you've been there and I've never been there before. Yeah, and you know, for some people that like, like like we said earlier, it's just gonna be well of those things you have to just get out there, experience it, learn from it, and move on because there's only so much you can do, you know, practicing beforehand and that that really helps more than a will once you just get out there and do it. Okay, So buck favor dude, I'm sure. I'm sure both of us will have some case of it this fall. Hopefully I got buck fever right now. Yeah, I'm a pomp dude. I don't know. Something like I didn't get a hunt a lot because I was returning the favor. But this year, you know, with this trip that we're going on and this, you know, every time I'm on the treadmill or the stairstapper, I just I got this picture of like, I don't know if I'm It's like I had a dream the other day where I'm running a camera and you're drawing back on a mule lye that stands up out of the bushes. So it was just so one of those dreams that's really realistic. You know. It's all those and I'm just like, God, I hope that happens. It would be sweet. I'm pumped ere be hunting more this year in general, because I want to I want to hear some good hunting stories from you this fall, and I want especially like when I'm out there, what would be super cool. I'm really hopeful this happens. Um. You know, I'm gonna be coming in hunting in Iowa in November at some point. Um, so maybe it's like November eight, and either you or me shoots just a slob like six and a half year old, you know, G two twelve inch G three's flyers off the two split state record and we'll record a podcast live from the spot. We'll bring our little like uh, I don't know, I'll bring my WiFi hotspot and will record out there in the woods talking about it right then and there. That would be pretty sweet. Well, you'd probably be crying, so there'll be a lot of editing. Do I'll tell you what. If I shoot a giant deer, I will cry like a bay be. I'm not joking. I get emotional. I did too, and it's okay, it's okay. Then you can cry. But well, I guess if you ask my dad, no, they're not supposed to they're not supposed to cook either, but I love to cook. We won't ask your dad then, Yeah, man, I'm I'm stoked. I'm ready. It's it's only the middle of June, but um gosh, it's gonna be every year. Every year it gets worse too. And I still got it. Like I was. I was dialed in with my bow, and then I the other day and my kisser button popped off and then my peep site started turning in my string. So now I got to go back to the archery shop and get that adjusted, which means I need to start from scratch again. So yeah, that's a pain. Yeah, yeah, I hate that. I absolutely hate when something that happens when you're both set up. Um. So I got one more I want to mention. Um. And I made the same steak two years in a row and it's stupid and I shouldn't have done it. But I should have learned that first year afterwards, but I didn't. And this is a case where you know that that first year, I was hunting on a Michigan property and it was on It was November one, and it was just absolutely on during the rut um. There were bucks chasing dolls all over. I think I went out there and after I got there at four o'clock, in between four o'clock and six o'clock or whatever it was that I got dark at that time. I saw eleven or twelve different bucks. It was just for for that area was unheard of, tremendous number of bucks, several mature bucks, two bucks fighting. It was an awesome night and you could tell, you know, there was a hot dough in the area. But I was scheduled the next day to drive to Iowa to start hunting. In Iowa, I had the flexibility to do whatever I wanted. But instead of staying there in Michigan where it was absolutely on at that moment, I was like, I was better, I'm gonna go on to go And I left a very hot situation in Michigan where there was an dope in mistress in estress and the rut was on, and I left Iowa. And when I got there in the area I was hunting, it wasn't on. The doughs weren't weren't an estress yet, the bucks weren't chasing yet. It was really slow for like three days there. If I had stuck around an extra day in Michigan when it was really on, maybe I would have killed a great buck there. And I never ended up killing anice buck there that year because I missed out on that hot spot. You know, the rut isn't like two weeks straight of NonStop action. It's very staccato, and there's a there's a hot spot this day, there's a hot spot maybe a week later. There's just a couple of these big exciting bursts of excitement in a given area, and um, if you're on one of those, you really need to take advantage of it. Now, fast forward to the next year. I thought I'd learned from this, but then again the exact same thing happened. I'm out there. It's November three or fourth, I think I'm in Michigan, and a big buck is locked on a hot dough and the box are chasing all around it. I can tell there's a hot do in the area. I'm watching it, like a hundred fifty yards away. This buck is locked on or plenty of other bucks are trying to get in on the action. I know this is happening right then there it gets dark. I have to leave. The next day, I was scheduled to go to Ohio, and again the temptation of what's in these other states gets me. I packed up in left Ohio and I left what was an awesome situation there, and um, if I had stuck it out, you know, maybe things would have been different in Michigan, and in said, I went to Ohio and again exactly like in Iowa, the conditions weren't the same. The rut wasn't going right then and there there wasn't a dough in the area that was ready to go, and I didn't see crap for a long time. So twice in a row I left a situation where the rut was popping and there was a hot do in the area. And from now on out, hopefully I'll have the mental strength to never leave a hot zone or hot spot like that again, because during the rut, if you have that hot do in the area, if it's really cranking, you need to stick it out in that area while you've got that little excellent opportunity. That was a big mistaken made a big lesson I learned. Yeah, I don't I can't say i've i've ever I've never had that opportunity to hunt another state during the rut. But you know, Mark, yeah, Mark, Mark Mark Buck hunting one oh one man, don't leave the hot spot, I know. And it's it's even if you're you know, even if you're hunting the same state like in your case, you know, if you if you get a hot spot, yeah, like you said, it's one on one, you can't leave it. And even sometimes that is one situation where it is okay to hunt a little more than you might usually in one stand your loss times we talk about that you don't want to hunt the same spot more than a couple of times because those dear learned. But during the rut, I'll bet your off bets are off. And if that if that action is super hot, you know, you gotta stick it out. You gotta be there, um. And might be a day, a whole day, it might be two days, might be three days, um. But you have to be there when it's on because you don't get that many chances like that. Right, So that was a big mistake, stupid, but I didn't. We're smarter because of it, right, from these mistakes that we've made. It's true, like we always say, you have to learn from those failures and we get like you said, we get better because of them. So that's that's this whole episode is about. It's about the things that have made us better. Hunters. We've screwed up. We've missed dear, we've messed up on deer. We've screwed up hunts. But you know, sitting here today, I think you and they are much more effective deer hunters because we made those mistakes and because we thought about what those mistakes were and how we could improve upon them. So right, So, I mean, what we want to know is, you know, I always like reading the results of the podcast. So what I want to know from the listeners out there is, you know, to make it interactive, is to tell us what your biggest mistake was and how you fixed it. And if you put hashtag W to H challenge, Um, all those pop up by just by clicking, and all those pop up in the same feed, and we can we can read those results, and everybody can read those results, and your mistake might help someone else make that particular mistake. And you know that's what this is all about, helping each other and and uh, preventing stupidity. So I've got an idea. All right, let's do it. Um, So we use the hashtag W two HS challenge for our you know, the challenge that we have challenge. Episode We had a couple of couple episodes ago, okay, UM, and I like the fact that lots of people are engaging with that, you know, sharing their challenges or how they're tackling one of the things we talked about, UM. And so I've been thinking, I want to, you know, just like you said, I want to find a way to you know, get every all of you guys listening. You guys can interact with us more on each episode, UM and talk about each topic. So I'm thinking two things. For each episode, I'm going to post you know, this podcast asked. We'll post it on the wire d on Facebook page, and we'll have a discussion topic for each episode. And on the Facebook page, you'll go to the post for this episode and you guys can answer the question or we can all discuss a certain topic underneath that Facebook post. On top of that, we'll also have the hashtag. Like you said, Dan, But what I was thinking is instead of using the same W tweets challenge, instead of using that, since we already kind of use that, let's use a different hashtag for each episode. So if you're talking about podcast episode number sixty, do hashtag W two H podcast sixty And that way anytime you guys have a question or you want to comment on something stupid I said in episode sixty or anything like that, just post about on Facebook or Twitter with hashtag W two H podcast and then whatever number, and then we'll all be able to see it. We'll all be able to you know, participate in the conversation for that specific episode. And that should make things, I think easy, and it'll be a cool way to engage on each one of those. So for this one, Dan, like you said, um, let's hear about what your biggest mistakes were. So on Facebook we'll post this will be asking you to share your biggest mistakes and feel free to comment on Twitter two and uh, it should be interesting. I'm hopeful that you and me aren't the only ones doing some of these stupid things. Dan. I'd hate to be left out in the cold, for sure. So I think that's a good I think that's a good place to stop. What about you? Yeah, I H I really should stop doing these podcasts with you because every time I every time I I sit here in a record one then I have to go upstairs and I really, I really don't want to talk about the Bachelorette. But I'm kind of forced to. I'd rather talk about deer hunting or our mule deer trip or something like that, but instead I gotta watch Dora the Explorer or change a diaper or you know, do you do dad stuff hashtag dad problems. Yeah, man, I feel for you. But just think a couple more years and Mac will be your hunting buddy and then you'll be able to go upstairs and talk a big deal with him. Yep, so that that will be pretty cool. So alright, let's shut this down. And uh, we've got some really cool guests coming up in the next couple of weeks stand um that I'm working on lining up. So we've got we should have an action packed summer leading up to the hunting season here on the podcast. So there you go, sound effects, sound effects, There you go, perfect timing. That was good. I like that. I think you can keep your job. Um. Okay, So before we wrap things up, another quick update. Wired Hunt details are now available with our new logo. We used to have some of the old website designed the whole logo. We've got new details available for sale on the site. So go to wird hunt dot com click on shop. You'll see those details are pretty cool. I got them on the car now, so check those out if you'd like. Um. Another thing, another reminder question for all of you, if you haven't yet subscribed to the podcast on your mobile device, you might want to try that. It's a lot easier. I've gotten feedback from some people saying that, you know, they listen to it when they're actually going on the website and they cook play on the website, but then they have to leave and they lose their their track or whatever on the site. UM, it's a lot easier if you just have it downloaded to your phone or your tablet device. So go to iTunes or go to the podcast app on your Apple device, or Stitcher for your Android device, or or any other podcast app and just subscribe. That way, you'll get to your phone right away, you can listen to it when you're driving or whatever, and it's just it's an easier experience. So I'd recommend that if you haven't done that yet. UM. Also, we of course want to thank our partners who helped make this show possible. UM. You know, as always we say this, but we really really mean it. These companies are supporting us, so we appreciate anything you can do to to support them or let them know that. Hey, thank you for supporting the Wired to Hunt podcast because it's it's half decent. Those guys are kind of interesting to listen to occasionally, so thank you too. Sick of Gear, Trophy, Ridge Bear Archery, Redneck Blinds, huntera, maps, Osonics, Carbon Express, Lacrosse Boots, and the White Tail Institute of North America. Thank you, thank you, thank you, and of course thank you to all of you listening. Thanks for joining us, thanks for tuning in. We appreciate your time. Hopefully you learn something from this from us sharing our stupidity and our mistakes. Hopefully that wasn't just boring to listen to, but actually helpful and maybe you can relate to that too. So thanks a lot, have an awesome week, and stay Wired to Hunt,