00:00:02 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm your host, Mark Kenyan. This is episode number twenty five. Today the show, We're joined by Mike Hunt Sucker and Sean Luckell of Heartland Bow Hunter and we're going to be discussing how to film and photograph your hunts like a pro. Lots to learn this episode, so settling and joy all right, welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. Today the show, We've got a pair of great guests. These are two guys I really enjoyed spending time with over the years, and in addition to being great hunters, there are also two of the most skilled people you'll find in the hunting industry with a camera in hand. Welcome to the show, Mike and Sean Man. Thanks for having us. Yeah, thanks for having us. I appreciate it. Yeah, we're we're excited to talk to you guys. And uh, I know that you know three of us have chat a lot in the past, but I'm excited to be able to dive into some different topics today for the podcast. Now, as I mentioned you guys are avid hunters, photographers, videographers, and we're hoping to talk to you guys today about all three of those things. But to kick things off, could maybe Sean maybe start out here we're telling us a little bit about what you and Mike do at Hartland bow Hunter and Mammoth. Mike and I are owners in both companies, Hartland bow Hunter and Mammoths Media, and we've been a part of each since the beginning. Um, basically, I think you're having eight years for Hartland bow Hunter and then I want to say four years for Mammoth are three years? I'm sorry? So so we've been around for a little bit and we uh kinda kind of got to hang in the game for for the most part in what we're doing, we've got to get system down. And both companies are growing very rapidly, especially in the outdoor industry. So things are going very well and that's awesome. I concur from everything I've seen, seems like you guys are doing things the right way now. Mike, for maybe those who aren't familiar with Hartland Bowl Hunter, can you give us a super high level of what the show is all about, where it can be found you know, what's your what's your deal? Yeah, we're currently filming for our eight season of the show, So we've been around a little while. And uh, our show is is something that's a little bit different than what's out there, and at least that's kind of how we have separated ourselves is um is by our show being a little bit different. And when we started out, we noticed that there was an opportunity for there to be a really well produced hunting show. There wasn't a whole lot of great content out there, and that's changed a lot over the past you know, three or four years. But um, at the time, nobody was really putting in the the kind of we would that we had strive to strive to do. So, um, you know, we saw an opportunity there and kind of rain with it. In our show. You know, we focus more on obviously all on bow hunt, but we focus more on you know, telling the story and all the aspects surrounding bow hunting about what both hunting really is, because it's not about just to kill and just going in and be killing the buck every time you're go and sit in the thing. And so that's how a lot of shows made it look, so we wanted to tell the real story and to have to be a little more a little more real, little more raw. Yeah, I UM, and you guys have done a really good job of that. And as you know, I've been a big fan of the show, and I think, like you said, Mike, you guys really were one of the first to focus on that production value for a TV show. And since then, a lot of people have jumped on that bag, that bandwagon, obviously, but I think for sure you guys are the first to really focus on that and it really really changed the entire industry. I think we've seen just a total revolution in how Hunting TV and DVDs are produced. So I think there's a lot of a lot of people out there that enjoy Hunting TV today that have you guys to thank for how good some of it's becoming. So propaps to you guys. That's flatter you. I don't think we're gonna take credit for all that, but it definitely has gotten the Hunting TV shows size was definitely definitely step up the game in the past few years. Lot of good shows now, definitely, so I want to dive more into that. Um. But before that, we usually like to kick off our show on a little bit of a letter note with a curveball question of sorts, and Dan is usually our main to do that. So my friend over there, Dan, what kind of crazy question do you have for the guys today? You know, we just want to make your guys experience with the Wired to Hunt podcast very comfortable and laid back, maybe, you know, remove a little bit of tension out of your life. So we're gonna ask We're gonna ask, you know, a real quick question here, and it's basically a two parter. All right, it's Friday, you're you know, you're at a bar, and you know there's a karaoke machine. You know. I asked Donnie Vincent this when he was on as well. But I'm adding us second part to this, okay, because no one can really go up completely sober in singing karaoke. Um, so you gotta take one shot of your choice and what song are you singing when you go up there. I'm obviously a really good singer, as you guys know. Uh, I mean, that's that's that's that's a tough one. I have to have to definitely do something by the Red Hot Chilis that first, probably maybe Californication and you in your in your in your liquid courage, your shodow liquid courage. Oh yeah, yeah, I don't know what that would be. Maybe some skeelet or something. It sounds dangerous. Yeah, I don't drink. I wouldn't even I wouldn't even take a shot. I just go up there sober. But um, no drink. I was gonna say, that makes some of our past experiences confusing for me. Yeah, I'd have to take a shot of Jack, I'm sure, um, and then uh probably go up there and start off some brooks and dumb boots and bogies that that song right there would get the crowd rocking and rolling. I would lovely do that the classic. Yeah, that would be a horrible experience to hear either one of ustening karaoke. I promise you that I was actually a karaoke bar a few weeks ago with my girlfriend and for her class reunion, and there was a bunch of people saying karaoke, and I told her that I don't even think that I can do it, um heavily intoxicated, So I don't ever anticipate me ever doing that. Period. I'll tell you what there's um, there's definitely some bad karaoke go on bars, but I think I've got it all topped. One maybe three or four weeks ago, I went to a campground. It might have been Labor Day weekend. I think in my wife's family and some friends every once a while go to this campground down in southern Michigan. It's a pretty pretty hillbilly affair. And at the campground to get an old barn, and they had karaoke set up that Friday night. And that was the most memorable karaoke event I've ever seen in my life. We're talking some real quality individuals. Yeah, it was. It was an experience. So now, Dan, I know last time you had when we asked this question, last time you had a pretty good song picked up, but I can't remember what it was. What was it was David Allen co You don't have to call me darling. Yes, that's my go to song. It's hard to go wrong with that, and I think, uh, for me, it's it's I still Gotta Go Toby Keith Curtsey is Red, White and Blue. That's the same for me. I think if I had to go with any song for karaoke, that would be the one. And what's your shot? Uh? That for me? I take some pretty girly shots, so I canna. I'll go just a straight vodka something, a cheap vodka probably what I do? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, what about you doing? I'm running with Jack? Yeah? Yeah? Alright, Well, I guess we better watch out for the next A t A or show or something. If the four of us end up in a a karaoke bar, things can get weird. Oh man, alright, Well enough of all that. Thank you Dan for the good conversation starter. There're welcome, Mark, Yeah, well done. Uh that said, then, I did want to get into what we're actually here to talk about, which is dear And I know you guys, Mike and Sean have been super busy over the past month or so going all over the Durn place, and I've heard you've been having some success. So I'd love to hear a little bit about your early season hunt so far, and maybe Sean, if you want to kick us off, I'd love to hear more about your North Dakota white tail that we posted about a weird hunt. But let's hear a little are about that story if you don't mind. Um, Yeah, we we uh, we got to out the code every year. Um, it's just a tradition that we've done. I would play for like five six years now. Um. And basically, you know, we we go up there with Nate now a few days early and we'll start running trail cameras and stuff, and we checked them all basically the day that we're about to hunt or the day before that, and it's really just a crapshoot as to what's going to show up. And this particular bucket that I ended up shooting, we'd only we've only gotten I think one, maybe two trail camp fixtures of them. So after that, we all, um, we draw numbers to see who can pick the stand first. Pick whichever standing went up first, and I drew the third pill, so that was the third one to pick the spot where where I wanted to hunt. And really it was just a lucky, lucky pick and one of the leftover stands and I went there, and you know, we really weren't seeing hard of any dear. I want to say that that might have been the only buff that I had seen all week. And Mike and I, um, we've been sitting in the tree all night and it was really just the last five minute of the hunt, and I was pretty much ready to pack it up. And we we heard a stick snap or something, and I looked right down the tree line and he was already like twenty yards and we didn't even say anything to each other, just you know, go about our emotions to get to kill. And I got my bow and he had the camera going and Buck walked by like thirteen yards and just stopped quartering away. I mean, it was picture perfect, and I shot him. Um entered through the liver and out the lungs and he only I think he went about a hundred and fifty yards and piled up, So it was it was a textbook on It was pretty cool, man. Just uh, it was actually kind of a slow year force up there other than that. UM, Like I said, we just weren't seeing a ton of the year and got really lucky that a lot. So that's awesome. I'm glad it. Glad it worked out for you. Yess. I'll take luck anything, yeah, no kidding, absolutely, I'd rather take lucks and scale any day. It seems like you guys usually sell in your group at least one person usually kills a buck on that trip for you guys. Are you seeing though, Are you guys having a lot of encounters down there or is it kind of not a lot of deer? But usually the ones you do see end up being a good one for one guy at least or what's it like the experience down there as far as big buck settings go. Yeah, typically you don't see a whole lot of deer. I mean there's not high here numbers and we're hunting. Um, I don't know, this is really just a huge guest, but I would say per square mile there's only there's only a few deer, maybe three or four if that. Um. And you'll you'll get bucks on trail camera at one spot this time of year, and you're even getting that same buck a mile or two away from there. Like that. They actually apple quite a bit more than you would think. And they're they all bet in cattail fluid. They don't they don't bed in the few trees that are there. So there there's very there's very few deer, and there's the ones you do see are are pretty big. I mean a three year old gear could easily go one sixty like that. I mean they have a lot of food there, um, but it just depends on if they make it to the winner. The winners play a huge toll hunt, so you hope for a very very light winner and are a very warm winner and they typically put on a lot of inches and you'll have a lot more big gear. Nice. Now, what's the biggest deer you guys, Someone from the group is taken out there. That would be Mike. Yeah, I shot a shot like a one seventy five at the very first year, very first month we ever went up there. It was kind of kind of a crazy deal. They've had that lodge for seven or eight years now, and um, he's obviously a pretty aviod boat hunter, but he uh he you know, mainly he bought the lodge. It's the waterfowl lodge, so um, they leave a ton of ground to you know, make sure they have plenty of grounds and hund waterfowl on and being a bow hunter, he's like, man, he said this und a little bit too, and he was like, man, I've jumped some really really big bucks and he slews and catail sleuth. He gotta come up here and hunt some time. And you got an early season opener. You could maybe kill him a velvet or whatever. So, yeah, we finally made the trip up there, and the very first night, I shot the biggest buck in my life. Did he invite your pretty crazy hell? Yeah, yeah he invited us back. Yeah. Yeah, we went back up there, and actually we kill quite a few good ones. I killed a I killed like a mid sixties buck up there two or three years ago, and the Nate last year. And Nate killed the mid sixties a bluck last year up there. So um, we killed a handful of really good ones. Uh, Mike kinda. I wasn't there the very first year when Mike shot that block down. I didn't go on that trip. But that year was a lot different than any of you of the years because of the draft, right, Yeah, yeah, I shot that bucks over water hole actually, and um, it was super super dry and hot that year, and so the deer we're really just kind of kind of key on this water. And actually, um, it hasn't been like that at all ever since. I mean I've never heard ans like that stuff. Um, but it was still obviously still really good. Every year, Yeah, that always ends up being one of one of my favorite episodes. You guys have every year, it seems like that's just a really fun hunt. You guys go on and everyone getting together and the cambaraderie and stuff. I think, uh makes for what looks like a really a really cool hunt. So glad it worked out for this year, Sean, I appreciate it. Yeah. And Mike, what about you? I think you've had some success as well. I saw a couple of pretty good pictures. What's what's been happening for you so far this this fall? Yeah, I mean overall, we've had unbelievable every season, probably our best ever. Um. I started things off in North Dakota with those guys and I was killing Seawan actually so I didn't have a tag. But after that I left and went to uh Deer Meadows in Nebraska for a mule deer hunt. And this year in Nebraska opened their season September one for the first time. Uh, it's it's always been September fifteen previously. So it was really exciting hunt because we knew we had an opportunity to get a big velvet mutely and uh, it ends up shooting a really really good buck is super old is kind of a kind of a weird, weird deal man. This deer was so old. He had like when we when we keep him out and everything and checked his teeth, he had like no teas at all, and I think that was affecting, you know, his health because he wasn't able to eat a whole I guess he was super super skinny, really small body. Um, definitely would't have made it through the winner. So it was a great buck to shooting. Uh. Those hunts are always just the blasted spotting stuff. Counting is just something to be you got to experience it. It's just it's just a huge shooting, dronaline rush. That's awesome. Yeah, I know. Um, I've experienced some of that with elk hunting. But Dan actually went on his first spotting stock mule their hunt out in Nebraska to this year. Um, but he did not have any success. So do you have a tip for Dan, Mike that maybe it might help him on next year's hunt. I'll take it. Hey, you gotta be where the where the big bucks are if you want to kill him. No, it's it's tough. It's um, you know, it's it's it's so much different than what we're used to hunting, you know, being a tree stem and uh, it's just completely different. I mean, you've gotta do. You have only a couple of seconds to make a decision about your shot choice, and you know how quick shooting. Um, you know, finding him sometimes gonna be the hard hard part too, you know, yeah, figuring out where they are. But they do travel a lot. It's not as the white tail. They don't have a really small home range. So yeah, I mean I ran into I ran into a ton of deer out there and antelope. No, no mule deer bucks. You know, I ran into a you know, a pretty good white tail, a couple of white tails, and um, tons of does but no, uh no, no mule deer box. Yeah, that's uh. That's the other thing I kind of noticed is it's amazing just the areas, how different they are. Um, you know, you can you can be in one area and have a real high deer entity of a mule deer, and then you know a mile away you can have hardly any So um, it just really kind of depends. It sounds like definitely something I want to give a shot sometime here soon. I would love to get out there and try my hand after some muli's and I guess while we're on the topic, of early season updates for all the listeners out there, I'll give you all a quick update on my season so far, because I actually got my first white tail hunt of the year in just this past weekend down in southern Ohio and unfortunately did not have any buck sightings. UM. Saw a bunch of doughs, but none of the big boys. Um. But many of you probably do remember me talking about a buck I called Jawbreaker some number of times last year, and and we've got him on Schorl camera quite a bit in September, including some daylight photos last week. So it didn't work out yesterday, yeah, Sunday and Saturday, but hoping to get back down there in a couple of weeks and get take another stab at him. So that's all for me. But Michigan opens here tomorrow and uh for you too, Dan, right, Uh yeah, tomorrow's I was opener man. Yeah, it's been it's it's been a slow shown. I we're up north at the farm this weekend and just did not see much activity at all. It's been hot and the beans are all turned, you know, until the deer aren't on those anymore. So it's just gotten pretty pretty difficult. To hunt. So are you guys focusing on on trying to knock down some doors right now? Oh? Well, yeah, we couldn't even do that. They I mean it was horrible. We we uh we shot well. Trent was with us, he shot the very first night and then we I think Mike and I sat five times and never even had a doing range. It was horrible. As your areas. Your area then been affected, uh, pretty heavily by the e h d um it. It had been two years ago and we last year um was a little bit dry, but the deer were really keat in on our farm. I guess it's the sixty five acres and I I want to say that there was two a herd of two to three at least on there, and we I think we shot twelve or thirteen dolls off that last year and late season there was still a ton of dough, so I mean nothing killed them off. At this year, we've just had a ton of rain, so I think they're far more spread out, maybe not even on the really on the property as much anymore. M The probably got to other other neighboring properties because their food everywhere. And then a combination with the heat, I just don't think that they're moving my at all. Yeah, is there's a big cold front coming across for us right now here in Michigan, and we're getting We've got one right now, and then a really big one is hitting for us Thursday night and Friday morning. Do you guys have that happening for you guys soon too? Yeah? Um, it's just to rant. I think there's an eightfercent chance to rain tomorrow and Thursday. So the cold fronts coming and that's I'm really excited for it, said south winds for like two weeks, it seems like, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I am absolutely stoked for this front to hit. And uh, I think Friday and Saturday are gonna be dynamite here in Michigan. So I'm fingers are crossed. I feel I feel a big bucking counter coming. So there you go. Yeah, I think it'll I think it will really change things a lot. No, a good deal. Glad to hear that, you guys. Yeah, glad to hear you guys. A at a good early season so far, and I hope that the luck continues. Um. Well, that all said, though, I guess we should probably get into the meat and potatoes of what we really want to focus on, which is capturing the hunt, whether it be on film or in photo. And from what I've seen, it seems like more than ever, hunters are bringing cameras into the woods of them to record their hunts and those memories along the way. And with this being the case, you know, there's been a huge demand recently for information on you know, how to film your own hunts or how to photograph you know, your dear your trophy like a pro. And you know, given what you guys have done at Hartland Bow Hunter and the work I've seen you do, um, it seems like there's no one better to discuss this topic with. So withoud that being the case, I was thinking, maybe we start on the topic of video, and maybe I'll start with Mike by asking you this, for someone who's interested in starting to film their hunts. You know, what do you think that guy or girl needs when it comes to equipment? What's the bare bones to to get started filming for your own enjoyment? Oh? Yeah, I mean that's the that's the beauty of it is, you know, for some of your own enjoyment. They really aren't in your apartment. Uh, And it's never been a better time than been now, in an easier time for somebody who's wanting to sell. I mean, the camp, the technology, and the prices of equipment of just change so much in the past few years that it's just really really easy to get started anywhere from you know, if you just go buy a GoPro or a garment verb or a you know, a point of view style camera you to strap your bow and wear on your head and go out there, or you know, if you want to get a little more serious and actually get a uh, you know, video camera and tree arm. I mean, there's so many options for tree arms now, and it's just uh, tons of options out there now. I'm prepared to what it used to be. Yeah, I've definitely know it's the same thing. Is there any any particular you know, lots of times people want specific gear, They want to know what the exact is to get any recommendations on a beginner camp order or beginner camera arm or anything like that. You know, I'm not real well versed when it comes to the smaller hand am style video cameras, but um, I know Sony makes uh several different you know, tons of there's something different options. What we always cut people with, you know, make sure if you're gonna get a video game, and make sure you get one that has the manual focus capability, because filming hunts is just really it's really tough to do with with the camera and auto focus you know, focuses on all the trees and the branches and uh that types of stuff. So that's what I always tell people, you know, to do when they're when they're looking looking at the video camera. But also a lot of times I'll recommend people looking into get into DSLR because now they've they've advanced so so far that they take a really really good video and you can take pictures. So it's kind of two cameras and one and a lot of guys that tell them, you know that that makes it easier to justify uh, toughing their wife and to let them get in the camera as if they could say, hey, well I can take pictures of the family and all that stuff too. So that's the move I played and it worked. There, you go, that's awesome. Now when it comes to filming your hunts of the DSLR, it's kind of going off on tangent here um, but I've always thought that'd be a pretty big challenge, but I know that you know, people are doing it and you guys too. Um any tips on how to pull that off? It's not it's not like an overly challenging Actually, they're pretty intuitive and easy to use. The the cuff part is there's no one lens it really works for everything. Um. You know, there's a couple of different lenses that are pretty versatile, like the Pygma and Tamar and they both make a lens it's like an eighteen to two fifty year to seventy and um. So they have a pretty good range and you know, they can they can chew wide. They can also get you know tight and zoom from dear far away. But they're they're pretty limited when it comes to a low light capability. So there's there isn't one perfect lens out there. That's a couple of unfortunate so you end up you know switching lenses or uh sacrifice and little light capability for versatility. Um. But and thenother thing too that uh maybe a little more difficult to exposing the shot. And you know, shooting on manual exposure opposed auto exposure, like a lot of the cameras on the video cameras are gonna do do most of the word for you. But if you're shooting on DSLR, a lot about something is to be controlled manually. So um, you know, it may not be the best options for someone who knows nothing about filming or about cameras, but um, a lot of people that have used DSLRs before or slurs in the past, you know, they know nothing about photography. I'll just tuyes right over into in the video side. Yeah, definitely, I think that's a good idea to think about for a lot of guys. If you do know some of those basicals about DSLRs, they do take some incredible video footage, that's for sure. So how about for you, sean sticking to the topic of the guy that's new to filming, any advice just on the purely you know, actually doing it. Any advice for that guy on you know, what to be thinking about when he's filming, or how he should be setting up anything along those lines. Um, that's free arm is mandatory I think for some swimming out of a tree and then on the ground. Obviously, a tripod, whether it's a cheap one or not, it, just have something and then, um, I think the the other important things to remember are just three things, which are just your exposure and make sure you're exposed for the shot you're framing. Just make sure that whatever you're filming is at least in the frame as far as an animal or whatever it might be. And then focus. Just make sure it's all unfocused. And if you can remember those three things, you're you're gonna have something pretty solid at least to go back and look at, rather than you know, missing it or not, you know, not having in the frame or completely out of focus them. Then the the the film's kind of ruined at that point. But yeah, if you can remember those three things, I think, yeah, you'll have a pretty solid video now. Now, Mike, Um, you guys obviously earned a different boat than most people. Um, you guys rely on good footage and uh and having a cameraman with the hunter you know, to produce your show and whatnot. But as far as tree stands set up specifically, is concerned, what any any tips or advice for setting up a tree stand with a cameraman stand above it or to the side that you can give our listeners. Yeah, we always uh one thing that we you know, every tree is different, but what we try to do is, uh, we tend to try to get over the right shoulder of of the hunter if he's a right handed guy, So you're you're shooting kind of right over his shoulder down down the bow and you can get kind of the best angle that way. Um. And using what Sean might do is we'll put the base in the stand about the base of the cameras cameraman stands about the height of the seat of the hunderstand, So you give up there a little bit above him. Um. That way, you know you can you can film over his head. He's not gonna be blocking the new but you're still relatively closer. You guys can communicate well, Um, I think get some good footage. That would cool. Now, what about you know, if someone's trying to take things a little more seriously, maybe for the guy that's at the point now he's interested in getting to the industry, wants to start selling some footage, or maybe he's joined a show or starting his own show or a web show or something. If you know, if this guy was gonna start upgrading his equipment, what would you say is the most important thing to upgrade. Um. Any recommendations for that maybe two sean Um. It just saims if you're filming with the DSLR, a lot of your money is going to go into lens as lenses or extremely important. UM. We used to always we started off kind of focusing on on the body and then we'd always you know, kind of we had stock lenses for the most part, because he didn't really know much about it. But once we started to learn a lot more and see the difference and better glass three lenses, that's where that's where we started to spend our money. And that's where I think people should focus on. Um. We I think we have three primary ones that we that we use all the time, and UM yeah, I just think that's where that's where your money is well spent at and trying to think of anything else. Audio. Audio is very important. People think that you don't necessarily need wireless mics and stuff like that, and I think they're extremely important. I wouldn't even feel comfortable filming without one anymore. If I don't if like we forget it or we're out of batteries, we literally have none left. It's just it's almost like a wasted hunt because without good audio, I mean really, the only thing you have left to do is put music over it, and then I don't know. It's a it's a pretty pretty large key element UM to the Hunt and producing a good good shot or good film or episode whatever you're filming. Definitely. Now Sean elaborating on that just a little bit, what do you think, I mean, would you recommend a shotgun mike UM over maybe a wireless mike to on wearing on the Hunter or um is there's one kind of trump the other. UM, I would pro that's a tough one. UM. Probably a wireless if you're just filming one person. UM, if you're filming a group of people, you might want to a high end shotgun mike because you can pick up everyone fairly well as long as it's not super windy. UM. We run Sindyser wireless mikes. I think they're the the E three model. UM. I think they run for about five And that's kind of where that's where people I think you're thrown off. They're like, oh, I don't need to spend five on something like that. It's not that's worth let's you know, it's it really doesn't add that much, but it really does. Actually, I'm not sure what everyone rong. I mean, I know there are a lot of people that have different theories and run different audio systems, but that that's what we run, and we've been I feel like we've done pretty well just that that's set up, and we run sind Heiser shotgun mics as well on our on our DSLRs too, So it just depends on the situation. But for the most part, I'd probably say I need more comfortable having the person wearing a wireless most of the time. Gotcha, gotcha? So I guess taking the next step when we're talking about getting quality footage for that guy, that's a guy or girl who's trying to really take it to the next level. Of course, people usually tend to think that the most important thing is the gear, right. It always seems if I get the fancy camera, I'm gonna have awesome footage and I'm gonna be a pro. But really it's usually the person behind the camera from what I've experienced. So I'd like to hear from both of you guys on this, But maybe Mike first. You know, what kind of things can someone do? You know, actually, when it comes to you know, setting your camera properly or actual technique when using the camera to to get that high quality footage or story. Um, that really can get you above into that next level. Um. You know, it's it's something that that I think that we always recommend people do is you know, make sure that they're using the best best stuff possible. Um. And it all really kind of depends on your budget, I guess is what I would say is, um, you know, people that are doing it for more you know, more serious reasons can actually justify spend them going money on it. Um. But you know, it doesn't take he doesn't take the comes out in all our cameras to get the best footed you know, Like I said, those DSLRs will shoot great footage if we've used used them a lot in some of our shows. So um, you know, I think that what has helped us kind of take that next step when we initially got started filming and started putting together a TV shows was just actually like paying attention to the camera settings and running them manually. Um. The camera can only do so much in auto, you know, and and if you kind of use that as a crush, then then it's you know you're always going to have just mediocre footage. To take that next step, you really gotta gotta run things manually. Um. And that means you know, controlling exposure, manually monitoring the audio. You know, just pay attention to all the details, because it's just each each little detail of the different aspects of the video that makes it all, you know, feel right when it comes together. Yeah. Absolutely, Now, Sean, you had mentioned a little bit about framing and stuff earlier. Do you have any other advice when it comes to technique or anything along those lines that people should start paying attention to your storyline? Um. I was once told, or we were once told m from the get like in the very beginning when we were trying to learn how to film the hout, um that you want to you want to film your hot as a cameraman and non mansitor. And I think that's all I think. I think you film your hot thinking about how the story is going to be cut up and how it's gonna makes sense. Um. So as a field producer, you need to be out there getting the shop to tie the story together and thinking about how that story is all going to be told. Um. When it goes to production, because if you have a missing element, then VIM it's in your editors hands trying to figure out how he's going to tell the story when he doesn't have something there to work with, their an element to show that the story was was you know or how you just just storytelling. I think that's that's that's something that people really need to think about when they're out there trying to produce something in the field. It's great advice. Now, UM, what do you think? And I'll let h I'll let Sean you start again. And I'd like to hear Mike's opinion on this as well. But what do you think the biggest mistake UM, hunters make while they're out in the woods filming. Mm hmm, that's a that's a good question. Um, probably not telling the story. UM. I think that a lot of people, even ourselves, You'll get into a grind, especially if you're not having successful hunts, and you'll you'll tell a great story from the get go, and then four or five days into the hunt, maybe you're not seeing any deer. It just becomes repetitive. You stop filming. You might you might just film the hunt itself and nothing in between that or anything to tie anything together. So I think you've gotta you gotta remain focused and try to film as much as you possibly can. And if if things aren't going well or you're just not you're not seeing deer or I don't know, maybe you maybe you you blew out a tire, or your your bow blew up, or something happened, you broke a string or something like that. You know, you might get down about that, but you need to capture that stuff the show, um, to show everyone just exactly what's going on and why this trip has turned had taken a turn for the worst. I mean, that might not be the style of your show, but at least have it there in case that's something you want to add into the story to tell your viewers. What about you, Mike, something something somebody should really take into consideration when they're when they're out there. Um yeah not. I like what Shohnson I've been telling. The story is huge and actually coming everything that helps kind of tell that. Um. I don't know when we first guy started telling, we just literally filmed everything, so we had had everything and now we have a better idea on what to do. But um, I think you know, just like I said earlier, people running the cameras and auto and stuff and and not really you're not really getting the full benefit of the camera the technology if you do it that way. So take the time to learn the settings. Um, getting really comfortable with the camera and the other thing that that we didn't haven't mentioned yet really, but there's just so much information out there that people have access to, you know, between tutorials or informational websites and and everything. There's so many different options. So, um, you know that this guy's kind of the limit there. We've we've neither one of us went to film school or any sort of formal education. We're all self taught and uh, you know, I I've learned everything we know just by digging in and spend the time researchers yea, and to kind of to kind of or just piggyback off what Mike said is people will get intimidated and I think by cameras and think that they're overly complicated, and they're really really not. I mean they're engineered to be used or friendly. So I mean, don't be afraid to to look these things up. I mean everything is out there on the internet, not just I mean like today, I was working on some stuff from my house, and I mean I just any time that I don't know something, I just get online and research it and that. And that's all basically come from us trying to teach ourselves how to run cameras. So all the information is out there. Yeah, very true, very true. Just go just go to Google. Google, right, Mark, Yes, Google is the one to use. Come on now, Sean. Well taking a turn in the other direction, you know, onto photography. This is probably something that even more hunters um can relate to, because maybe not everyone wants to film a hunt, but nine percent of guys out there are definitely gonna want to get some good photos of their deer after they had some success. So maybe starting on the gear set again. Uh, Mike, any recommendations for a good beginner camera set up for someone just trying to take some nice trophy photos. Yeah, I mean if the technology has come up so far in the past few years, um, but there's so many good options out there. Um. We're kind of married to the Cannon brand on the on the dsl our side of things, just because that's what we started using initially and that's where we've invested all of our money in glasswide, so all of our lenses that can um, so everything we use cannons, So we've kind of we're kind of you know, fans of of the cannon DSLRs UM and they make a variety of options. I mean there's really it's kind of overwhelming, actually all the different options, um, whether it's from a T two I, T three I or the T four I. Now, um, those are all kind of under the rebel name, I believe, and those cameras can all be purchased for you know, in the six six hundred dollars range and under even so UM, those are great, great starter cameras we shoot primarily, uh, when we're talking about dslrstue primarily with the five D Mark three, which is a little more pricey. Um, it's a couple of thousand dollars UM and it's a full frame camera, but it's not it's not necessarily like a necessity for anybody. Um that's just kind of getting started or whatever. So there there's tons of different just a fit different price points. UM. And like I said, they're always coming out with new stuff. It seems like every other year they come out with a new camera and it's a little constantly upgrading and changes stuff and buy new limbs and evolving beasts every every year season. Just use your your iPhone six with the filter at you, yeah, and shoot. Cell Phone technologies coming a long way to right. They all the mounting brackets for your bowe. You can not your phone in your bone and film with it. You know, when when Sean I first got started filming's just messing around for fun. I duct taped the Sony Hendy can to my stabilizer and was shooting stuff back in the back in the early days in high school. That's awesome. Yeah, it's funny. When I killed my elk a few weeks back, I took photos with a DSLR and my iPhone, and I think I actually like my iPhone pictures better. So I don't know if that's saying something for the camera or saying something about how badly I used the DSLR, but the camera manufacturers, because the cell phone technology is really really good and it's much easier to use, I think, especially for the everyday consumer, and it's replacing a lot of those cameras. I'm sure. Yeah, it really is. Um Although you know, like you guys have talked about the manual functions and features that you can really take advantage of the DSLR if you know how to use them. Um, they can make a huge difference. And uh, I know when I finally upgrade to a DSLR, UM, partly based on one of your recommendations a number of years back, I got the cannon. I think it's the sixty d UM and love that camera. Um gosh, does make a huge difference in the stuff you can the pictures you can capture. UM. But one of the I think parts of using a DSLR that maybe intimidous people is the fact that you have to use different lenses. UM. Could maybe you know, Sean, maybe could you tell us a little bit about you know, what someone needs to consider when it comes to picking a lens. Um and is there any recommendation. Can someone get one lens to do it all for the average hunter or do you really need to have several? Um? I think it helps you have to Um, there's a there's a twenty one twine sorry, twenty four to one oh five is out that does a pretty good job. UM. But I think if you if you're I guess if you were just gonna go the more inexpensive route and didn't care so much about your glass. You could go with a tan ra on lens. And what is that one like that we have? Yes, that's the lens I mentioned there. It's a eighteen to two seventy and signal makes the eighteen to two fifty um. And so those lenses, like if you guys all the time, if you're gonna buy one DSLR and one lens um, you could spend about twelve hundred bucks and get a pretty solid set up. And um, you know it's it's not then I'm a livable quality glass and it's not the best little like capability, but um, you know it will work. You just gotta. It's just like I think there's no perfect lens. So you know, you you give up something to gain something else. So you give up a little bit of little like capability and to gain versatility, or you give up a versatility to gain little like capability and you go with the with the fixed lens or uh, you know, a prime it's going to be like a two point eight or one point four at one point six, at one point eight, I mean the really really good little hite lenses yeah, that some of those can make a big difference. UM. And that kind of ties in real nicely with the next thing I wanted to pick your brain about. Um, you don't make for a guy that's got his first DSLR and he's trying and take some good pictures, there's a lot of settings to be mindful of. Um. What are you know the one or two a couple of most important manual settings that a guy really needs to nail down to to utilize the DSLR propertly. Could you tell suppose would be Well, there's um, there's the hope. There's several different things. There's there's gonna be your white balance, um, which is your your color temperature. UM. This precepts on the camera which do really well, so you just kind of paper whichever looks good. There's ones are cloudy, shade, sunny, incandescent, fluorescent, different color temperatures. UM. And so that's that's an important to you, don't you know you want to be uh you wanna even are manually setting your white balances that way, it's not automatically changing all the time. UM. And that's something that a camera has trouble doing in auto. So UM that that's one setting. Then you have several things that the folks that affect your exposure. Um. And that's your F stop for your aperture or your iris, and that's what you see all the on all DSLR lenses they have a f F rating. So um, you know that the better lenses, the higher quality lenses, they're gonna be a fixed uh fixed F stop and gonna be like a two point eight or less typically. Um you get into the the camera and the stigma of the eighteen to two fifty eighteen to two semi lends those for like three point five two five points six Christians of my graph so um, you know, the more usual men, the the further clothes down the iris kids, and that what allows less light and which means you know, not as good blue of light. So um. So you have your F stop, then you have your shutter speed, and then you have your I S O U. And those are the three things that affect your exposure. Um. And so getting kuncomfortable with those is this key. I mean, like I said, it's kind of overwhelming at first if you look at it and try to dive into it, But the more you use it, the more you get comfortable with it. Um, the better off food you'll be. And with the shutter speed, you know, you simically will just use that too to adjust for your exposure to once you have your caperture set to where you want it. And then I s O is is and more too. Like a video camera, they have the same thing. It's called gain um and all. It is a digital light enhancement. So it's just you know, once once it's getting dark and there's not you know, not much visibility of the camera and you need to need to brighten things up a little bit. It adds this little white pixels basically to be to the image and it makes it appear brighter, but it also decreases in the quality. So um, that's kind of the last bitch resort and you want to you want to mess all the other settings and open your camera, you know, why don't before you start thinking of that awesome? Yeah that, like you said, it can be a little bit intimidating for it's a little overwhelming, but I think once you nail those couple items down, those are the same things that I obviously have focused on two And once you have your your head wrapped around that, it really opens up the world's possibilities of those cameras. So one of the final things I think that's pretty important to talk about when it comes to photography is you know, not just the gear, but you know, once you get a deer, how do you pose that deer? How do you set up a photograp f to get a quality hero shot or trophy shot, whatever you want to call it. Um you know, so many people in the past, there's the dead buck in the back of a truck picture that we've seen a million times, and that's kind of, um, kind of outdated. I think in my mind, I think today a lot more people are starting to care about capturing these photos in a in a way that I think respects that deer in that memory. Um So, maybe Sean, could you tell us a little bit about your advice for for properly framing and setting up and posing a deer and hunter and everything for for quality photo. Yeah, I think I think it's a very very important tool to have, um or at least something to show it's very respectful for for the game that you've killed. But umfore, like han Him, I think you should you should definitely prop their legs up like their bed and basically on the ground, not in the truck. And typically what I like to do is play some in the environment where where I shot him at really or to have something in the background that kind of shows where I'm at, um, whether it be a mountain or in the timber in the trees. And then lighting is extremely important. We typically always wait. If if we shot something in the middle of the day, we'll wait. We'll obviously got the animal, we will wait until the lighting is better, um later on in the evening. UM. And if we shot them in the dark, sometimes we'll we'll get them and wait until the morning to take some good pictures. UM. But yeah, you want to frame it up right, which is uh, be a little bit of headroom for the deer in the animal at the top of your frame, and then get the most, if not the entire animal, most of the animal in the frame as well, UM in the hunter behind the deer, and make sure that you could see all the times. UM. That's something that I think people don't pay a lot of attention to is if some times were cut out just based off the angle. You just got to try to find the best thing that you can't and something that I was kind of taught from the get go was either have most of the rack above the horizon or all the rack below the horizon, so the horizon doesn't mess with whatever you're seeing. UM, And I'm trying to think of anything else we have. We have a light reflector or a light bounce that we use sometimes and that helps out a lot too. So if you have light, if the if the animals back lit, which which means the sun be shining from the back of the animal towards the camera, we use a light bounce to bounce the light back to the hunter any animal, so you have a really good exposure. UM. Trying to think if there's anything else. Can you think of anything else, Mike? Um? You know, lighting is is huge to um. Like Jean was saying about the light bown stuff. Time of day when you set photos, we we always try to um, you know, credit try to get the best lining in a game possible. You know, if you're shooting during the middle of the day, late late morning, early afternoon, middle of the day, the shadows are terrible. You know, a real sunny bright it's not a harsh light. UM. So that's something the Bagadine do too. When you want if you want to get a really quality Yota. Yeah, definitely. So so is that you mentioned. If the sun is back letting the animal, you might want to use a reflector. But typically if someone has the option of you know, manipulating where he's setting up the deer and everything and where he's gonna photograph, would you prefer to have the sun over the cameraman's shoulder? Now? I like it back lit typically. Um. I can't even really give you the technological answer as to why I'm not like, I'm not like tech savvy on my photography. I just know what looks good and what I've seen. Um, I've just always known that a back lit lit subject always looks better. Um. And if if you don't have it, if you don't have the resource, since for um, a light bouncer reflector, just expose it the best that you can. But a back lit subject typically looks the best. But anybody can afford our reflector. You can go buy a fifteen dollar where they have like a car sheet or whatever those are called, like a people put in their windshield. Yeah, just keep the sun from rude in their sheets. Yeah yeah, And you can buy those from fifteen dollars from Walmart and they actually work fairly well better than nothing. So that man, you can use ten fool. Yeah, yeah, just stressing fool now, Yeah, I think I think uh from like Sean said, he prefers, you know, to shoot stuff with the with the light, a little bit different angles stuff. But I think for the the amateur guys, the guy that just get the start, I mean they shoot with the sun at their back is going to be the the They're going to get the best results that way. You know, if you're shooting other way, it just makes it. You know, it's a little more pretical. Make a little one. It's cool, gotcha. Now for the guy that can't wait till the morning he shot his deer, he finds it at two in the morning, he really want to get a photo. You see so many horrible night photos. I know sometimes you guys do take I think you guys have sometimes taken some night photos. To Mike, do you have any tips for someone you know to make the best out of a night photograph. Yeah, I would use headlights. I'm just didn't um I was gonna say we put him in the head lights yet, I'm just kidding. We actually that in that North Dakota buff we used. We recovered him in the dark, so we used UM. We have bat lights, which are camera lights that we put on top of our cameras for any time or filming at nighttime or whatever, and we we happen to have three of them there and we just moved the lights around until we thought it looked the best, and that's how we took the pictures. But for somebody, for someone that's gonna take night pictures, I I would recommend getting as many light sources as you can and hope that the color temperatures are the same, because if the color temperature aren't the same, it's gonna look kind of funny. Um, it's just tough. Nighttime pictures are tough. They can look really good if went properly. But there there's they're a little bit tough. But pretty much most of UH, most of the the point and shoot cammers nowadays that they offer have very good flashes, and I would trust that pretty well. They're they're not that they don't look very bad at all. Really, anything else you'd use, say, Mike, um, Yeah, I mean we use UH on the five V mark treat is not a built in flash. UM and obviously a video lights as well. He's a cheap just to uh led video camera light that we you can buy on Amazon for like thirty bucks. Um, and that light is this is really really powerful and worse really well, So lighting is the key at night time if you want to do a good nighttime photo. I don't I don't mind nine times but photos per photos, it doesn't you know, I don't. I don't shy away from it. I mean, you know, you shoot him at night and recover him at night. You know, you gotta get them taking care of you, gotta get them get in and butch heard and all that stuff. So, UM, I don't you know, I don't mind it at all. Uh, it's just gonna lighting the key, like shant it? Okay, good deal. Well this is uh, this is some really good information I think for anyone who's about to start their hunting season or who just has started, and hopefully we'll be tagging a buck here pretty soon. I think people will be able to use this advice right away to h to capture some some pretty cool memories. So this is great and we're coming up here on time. So before we wrap things up, Dan, is there anything else you would like to grill Mike or Sean about before we bring this into a close. Yeah. I don't know if this is a touchy subject or not. I know what kind of you know cameras you guys are using. I think you've mentioned U you guys made the jump to four K yet Yeah, yeah, not not, um some of our I mean we we have a team of I think eight guys, eight or nine guys, and so it's not something that we can provide everyone with us. Um but as far as uh, as far as us, we we shoot a lot of stuff with with the Red Ethic, and we'll shooting four K and stuff like that. Um. But and we also have FS seven hundreds with four K recorders that we don't have fully said up yet. But um, yeah, we we are shooting. We're starting to shoot some four K. So so with that said, yeah, the Outdoor Channel, what your show is on, They're not h D yet, right right, So that is my biggest pet peeve is who do I need to talk to at the Outdoor Channel? Yeah, what do you mean not h D yet? Oh yeah, maybe on your provider. Yeah, they're h D. They're in the majority of in the majority of the networks. But so and so then it would be the provider then that is not HD for that channel, right, yeah, obviously channel how the HDC, but the UM I'm not sure with all the uh the technical you know, specifics about that. How why they're why like, uh, Trump has you know, dreft TV and you don't. He doesn't get it. Yeah, have direct TV? Is that what you have? Dan? Yeah, that's what I got. Yeah. Yeah, So I'm not sure if it's their agreement with direft to or how that exactly works, but it's pretty annoying. Yeah, I understand, and I have a really good TV so, you know, switching between the Sportsmen's channel and the outdoor channel, there's a huge difference. And I just you know, I have to go to uh go online to see some of your guys how how actually good your footage is. Yeah, and that's that's something that Mike's always kind of haunted about. Is UM shoot in four K? It really doesn't matter if yeah, if you're not watching h right right. So just it's just like it's just like the h D phase. I mean everybody when HD you know, first came out, everybody was kind of you know, slowly catching onto it, and they came out with the first couple of HD cameras, the first httvs and everything practicing through the roof and um, you know, but eventually it got there and that's where we're headed, you know, the the it's definitely head of the four k you know, there's four KTVs now they cost ten grand. But that's the direction that's headed though, for sure. So it'll just be there with it will be there with time, you know. Yeah. So, speaking of watching your shows online, I saw something about a new series you guys are launching called but believe it's called Behind the Draw. Can you guys tell us a little bit more about what that's all about. Yeah, we uh we partnered with Carbon TV, who is they are online network that they're available online and through smart TVs, um too, Roku boxes, etcetera. Um, and they're really taking an aggressive, aggressive charge at the online market as far as the outdoor and Hunting TV is concerned. Um. We partner within the Spring and did a did a mini series called Full Strut and we uh produced six or seven original Turkey episodes and it was a real, real big success. So we're continuing that partnership. We're coming out with a new mini series, All Behind the Draw will produce six or six episodes. They will be focused on deer hunting, so I'm it'll be a real similar format too in style to our show. Um in a webisode versions. It will be a little bit shorter, um, but they should be should be really cool, really exciting. And then that's started about it is it's free and it's online, you can watching whenever you want. That's awesome. Now are these hunts that are gonna be shown on that on that series? Are these hunts that are not going to be shown your TV show? Or are you going to be showing the same things but different or no, they'll be different, different hunts. So um, onto the I've never been team before? Very cool, very cool. And people can find this at is a carbon tv dot com or carbon dot tv or what does they grow? Yep, carbon tv dot com? Awesome And I think I saw it launches October seven? Is that right? Yeah? The first episode premieres October seven. Then it will be weekly every Tuesday from from then on out. Very cool. So I'm not going to get any work done now exactly. That's all. Yeah. Well that's awesome. Um. Now, for any of our listeners who want to learn more about Hartland Bow Hunter, UM get any more information about air times and whatnot, where can they go? Our website and our Facebook page are const the main places. Hard Lower dot com and then Facebook dot com slash Heartland Bow one of those, UM we do. We share a lot of stuff on Facebook and Twitter and Instagram, and so we're pretty active on the social media side of things, so we're on them all perfect. Well. I will make sure to get those links on this blog post when we launched the podcast. And I gotta say this has been awesome, guys. Thank you so much for the time, um, for sharing so much of your expertise and your advice on all these topics. I think all of our listeners got a lot out of this, and me and Dan, I know, we certainly enjoyed the conversation too, So thank you. Yeah, thank all right, thanks guys, thanks for having us. Good luck the rest of the season, guys, Thank you bye bye. Now are you all right? Well, that was a pretty awesome conversation, and I'd say we're all better prepared now to film or photograph our two thousand fourteen hunts. And I'd say We're just in time too, as so many folks will be heading out for their first hunts of the year this weekend. That said, last week, we launched a little contest to help promote the podcast, and we asked you to post a short review of the podcast on Facebook or message board and then send a screenshot of that back to us, and dozens of you did that, and wow, we really appreciate it. All of you helping spread the word this week made a big difference, and we actually made it all the way up to the number two ranked outdoors podcast on iTunes. That's a big deal, So thank you so much for your support, and we hope you'll continue to help us spread the word throughout the hunting season. It means the world. Now though, it's time for us to announce the winner of the contest and the proud new owner of a Trophy Ridge static stabilizer, a pack of Carbon Express Leaden knocks, and a Wired to Hunt hat, and that winner is Shane Belt. Congrat Shane, and thank you for participating. We really really appreciate it. Now, as always, if you've been enjoying the podcast, we would greatly appreciate it if you could leave us a rating or review on iTunes. We mentioned it every week, but only because it means so much. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you to all of you who have taken a time to leave a review. Speaking of appreciation, we'd like to thank our partners who helped make this show possible. Big thanks to Sick of Gear, Trophy, Ridge, Bear Archery, Red Nick Blinds, Carbon Express, Arrows, Hunts, Soft Lacrosse, Boots, Big and J Longrange Attractives in the Whitetail Institute of North America. Finally, be sure to visit Weird to Hunt dot com slash episode to view the show notes and links from today's episode that said, thank you so much for being here. Listen today until next week. Good luck hunting. Let's stay Weird to Hunt.