00:00:02 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast. I'm your host, Mark Kenyon. In this is episode number twenty one. Today in the show, we're joined by Terry Drury of Drury Outdoors with the opener of deer Season only days away. We're talking about early season hunting strategies. Terry lays down some awesome advice in this show, so get ready to take notes and enjoy it. Now. Before we get started today, I want to offer a quick apology. In order to join us for the interview, Terry had to call him from his cell phone out near one of his hunting properties, and for that reason, his service wasn't terribly strong and it resolved too in a few audio issues. I want to apologize for that in advance, but I think you'll find that the content of this discussion is well worth the occasional audio hiccup. Thanks for your understanding, and now let's get right into it all right, Welcome to the Wire to Hunt Podcast. We've got a really great show on tap for you today, as joining me and Dan is a very special guest Terry Dreury of Dury Outdoors. Welcome to the show. Terry, Hey, guys, how we doing. I'm doing I'm doing great. How about you Dan over there? I'm doing pretty good. I'm not at work. Hey, I know that's always a good thing for you, Terry. We we really appreciate you joining us today. This is going to be a pretty pretty neat conversation. I think absolutely. I'm always fied up for a little early season deer hunting, and then we've got you know, food plots and a whole dis a wide ready of things we can talk about. Awesome. Yeah, we we are equally psyched up about the season coming here shortly, so we're definitely have to dive into this some of some of those things. But first while I don't think I need to give too much of an introduction for you, As you know, most of our audience it's full of hardcore white tail addicts who are very familiar with Dury Outdoors and the TV shows and DVDs to produce. But for those that might not be as familiar, could you give us a brief recap of you know, how you Mark maybe got started with the Dury Outdoors and how things maybe got to where they are today. Well, I'd be glad to we. Uh. We started out back in nineteen uh and both of us love to hunt. Prior to that, we grew up in in a rural area, you know, on hunting our grandparents farms. Uh. Did a lot of rabbit and squirrel hunting back in the day when we were youngsters and had a big goals. We were always rabbit hunting on our grandparents farm and trying to trying to put a little food on the table. Back then did a lot of squirrel hunting and sold and so forth, and then it just kind of evolved into into the deer and turkey thing, which Mark started competitively turkey calling way back in the day and was somewhat traveling a circuit, so to speak, going from state to state trying to win these competitions, you know, and and the turkey calling abilities. We uh, we traveled to several different states doing a little bit of turkey hunting. And then at that time there weren't a lot of television or video producers and for the most part, we thought we would give it a try. There was a couple of them out there. We thought that we thought we could do it. So we went together and bought a camera back in the late eighties there and went to the Ozark Mountains of Arkansas, and in those mountains we filmed our first turkey hunt together and then, as they say, you know, the rest is history, because we really never put the cameras down once we started filming the first hunt, and uh, from Turkey, we evolved into the deer hunting because the numbers were much greater there. There were so many more deer hunters than there were turkey hunters, and Mark is extremely passionate about turkeys and turkey hunting, and I was a little more passionate about deer and deer hunting. So the evolution was just a natural fit for us. But we kind of always made the deer our star. It never was really about us. It was always about the white tale and trying to match wits with a white tail and play that chess match on a daily basis, and really learned from our mistakes. We were self taught, both of us and made plenty mistakes and still making those mistakes, but we were always students of the game as well, and we were always willing to try and learn something. So the evolution was really more about the animal than it was about us, and we involved you know, quite a few subcontractors and team members and partners and and other guys that love to hunt, and that's kind of where we landed here today. We just evolved as a team and it's still more about the white tail and it's all about learning. Uh. You know these creatures that they're creatures of habit, much like us, but they always seem to win. And in so matching wits with one is like the ultimate chess match. Yeah, that's the truth. And a couple of things you mentioned that are really what I love about, you know, the DVDs and TV show as you guys produced. You're really producing some of the best content out there for the hardcore white tail hunter that that I've seen. Just have really enjoyed the fact that you do show it all, um, and it's relatable. I mean, you guys have had some bad shots on dear, You've had some misses, you've had some misques, and I love the fact that you're not afraid to show that. And I'm sure you take some flak on occasion, you know, just like we have in different things we put out there. But but that realism is so important, and I think it's great to see that from someone, especially as experience and entrenched the industries. You guys that you're still putting out those mistakes along the way. Well, ironically enough, they only show mine, they never show anymore. He seems to have total edit control when it comes to the final the final cutting room forward, He's somehows niggles his way in there and make sure that he has never gets shown. So I usually have to wa that that that downtap for quite a few days and he never has to wear it for whatever reason. Well, that explains a lot of things that I've seen, Yeah, explain a lot. And uh, he you know, he always seems like he's the epitomy of a target archer, you know, one of the finest, and he is when it comes down to the to the really down to the wire and making that shot marks one of the best. And I'll tell you over the years you could literally you know, so everyone of his kill and his kill zone is pretty dog on small. His grouping is always pretty tight. He's got ice water running through his veine whenever a big white tails in on him. But he's always done such a good job. But with that being said, he'd had his share of mrs no one ever seen them. I do remember one recently where he uh a lesson ideal shot on a pretty nice Missouri buck I think it was, and he still is able to get that kill. So I guess he's not perfect on film. But that's pretty funny and that well, jumping in front of a camera, and I guess this is something that people don't realize. It's not easy, but we've been doing it for so long it's like it really doesn't bother us anymore. But the very first time or the first you know, a couple of years, if you're in front of a camera, it's like having an audience or somebody behind you there, and it puts an added dimension that you a little bit added pressure that you normally own accustomed to doing. When you're standing in your driveway and you're shooting at your your block, target or whatever may be, or Glendale, you don't feel that pressure. But you get in front of a camera, it's a little bit different because you don't you know, whatever you do is gonna be criticized and critiqued by everyone out there watching, So it's a little added pressure, but he's he's really one of the best. But putting a big white tail down on the ground. Yeah, and like you said, it really does open you up to criticism that both Dan and I both film our hunts too and put them out there. And it's it's interesting because everybody makes mistakes, but it seems like if you if you put your mistake out there, people are pretty quick to jump on it, which is unfortunate. But probably a conversation for another day. That's a long one. Yeah, it definitely is. But but all that said, Um, you know, with it being late August here and the hunting seasons are about to put in a matter of days or weeks for most people across the country. Um, like I mentioned earlier, I really wanted to focus most of our conversation on early season hunting strategies. But before that, Terry, we always like to start our show with a laugh courtesy of a bit of a curveball question from my co host Dan. So, Dan, what have you got today for Terry? Well, we are we're making history today. Okay. This is the first ever speed round. Okay, So Terry, all you need to do, I'm gonna give you two options. You pick one. Okay, and this is basically just a pass failed test um and to tell you, you know, to show what kind of guy you really are. It has nothing to do with white tails. Myself and a team of scientists put these questions together, and uh, I'll tell you what. Let's just get into it, and I think you'll I think you'll get where we're going. I'm getting. Okay, here we go, classic rock or country country sandwich or cup of soup, sandwich, fruits or vegetables, Oh good call, roller blades or bicycle, bicycle, mustache or full beard? Yeah, full beard, Old school or new school. I'm old to cool through and through everybody? All right, Beer or whiskey, Beer checkers or chess chess? All right? How many pairs of socks do you own? But counting all the new underharmor socks that we just got, I say dozens and dozens of fair Okay, all right, I'm gonna say over fifty. Okay. A long time ago, my grandpa said you can really judge a man by his socks. I don't have a clue what that means, but he said it. You long story short, you passed the test, cool Bob, did I a new car. Dan, I'll tell you what if you like Honda Civics from about nineteen can I squeeze a big deer in the back of that puppy? Oh yeah, for sure, for sure, I'll take it. It was awesome that it wasn't a pretty easy on the Friday. They we're going to get off color a little bit, but you stay pretty clean with it. Yeah, well we got we got a younger audience as well, so we gotta we you know, maybe another time we'll get we'll get deeper. They were good, well, well, well done, Dan. I enjoyed the speed round. We'll we'll have to bring that up, bring that out again some time for someone else to but with our with our little curveball out of the way, and I figured you'd like that, Terry, given it, think you and Mark are pretty pretty good baseball fans. Um Now, I want to focus on white tails and as I mentioned, early season hunting strategies, so Terry, to kick things off, I'd love first to hear a little bit about you know, what's leading up to the early season, and that's what we're doing right now in these final weeks of summer. Can you share us a little bit about you know, what your final preparations are leading up to the season opener. Absolutely, it's it's probably our most frantic time of the year. And I say that, you know, because we start pitching here pretty hard, and we have been for the last several weeks trying to make sure that all of our food plots are planted, making sure that all of the box lines are clean and they're free of all the wasps, making sure and snakes and every other critter that wants to make a home there. Then all of our tree stands, we go around and we check all of our straps, making sure that all the wraps its are good at and making sure the sculls didn't cut through anything or not through something. We make sure that all of our shooting lanes are trimmed. We make sure that the camera guy and the hunter can be on the same page, because a lot of times the you know, the hunter has got a view and he can make the shot, but the camera guy can't get on him. So there's some additional trimming that goes on there in a lot of these trees. And if you trim them one year, they come back price as bushie the next year. So it's the constant. Uh, it's really a constant, you know job where you're gonna go in there and maintain it. But really, right now I'm in desperation mode checking reconics cameras and we're looking at pictures on a nightly basis. I just did that today. I'm sitting here alongside the road because I'm in my farm in northern Missouri and I have terrible self service here, so I had to go to a spot reg at coverage. But I made I don't know how many cameras today, probably thirty visited thirty cameras, change all the flash cards, kind of looked at any of the pictures the first round, and I look at my cameras that year round because I want to try and see exactly, you know, when they said are antlers, what kind of shape the hard looks like. I want to check the buck to do ratio in the numbers, and whether they're betting how much food is available anybody that might be in the farm that's not supposed to be there. So they're kind of a security blanket as well. But that first round you go through and you start changing batteries and you and you know that may be full of ants, there might be spoder webbs in front of them, older the winds, and uh so there's there's quite a bit of maintenance there that goes on with the cameras. But then as I as I go through round two, round three, when I'm four and so on, you make sure that there's nothing in the way. I take a weat eater and I literally will go all the way down to bare dirt over some of the cameras work. I know it's going to be a community scrape. Historically it's one of our better spots, so I go ahead and make it easy for that buck to go in there and see where that you know that kind of that bare spot is because it's so often you'll see the weeds or full foot tall and they wouldn't hit that spot. So we're trying and direct these deer and our movement in front of the camera. So there's just a regiment of things that we go through here in preparation for the season, because the last thing you want to do is be out there doing all this stuff and be trying trying to hunt too, because we don't want to do any old disturbance. Uh then we absolutely just have to once the season get here. So I've seen an open September, so I'm gonna say about August thirty feet year. Over the next couple of days, we're just buttoning up, finishing the last few go to items and making sure that everything is ready to go. And then and then the farm will rest for a couple of weeks here we won't go inside, and uh we're gonna turn it on come September fift We're gonna start whacking and stacking a few dolls, and I'd like to do that on the perimeters. I try to keep the center of the farm, uh somewhat intrusion free, and I'll start my doll harvest on the outside. And I'm really looking for daylight walkers. When it comes to bucks or shooters, we got hit heavily in the last we get hit with the h D heavil in the last couple of years, so now trying to find a shooter is is really so I've been trying to find daylight. We'll kind of flowing in on those if we if and when we find them, and if we don't find a target deer, a target animal, then we'll work on the use and try and get a buck todoor ratio in check our mind is way way out of out of filter. So speaking of the shooter bucks, Terry, what's your how is your inventory your hit list looking right now after you've been checking those trail cameras. So far this summer not good. Last year I was desperately trying to find a four and a half year old deer, and I had a couple on the farm, but uh, you know, when you target one or two, it's just nearly impossible to get him in front of tree stand. And this year is the same way. Years ago, I would target five and a half year old deer with with a bottle and six seven and eight with a gun. But because of the size of my farm and and you know, the neighbors and all that other stuff, I wasn't able to sustain that. I wasn't able to do it. So now I dropped back to four and a half year old deer and some of them if they if I think they're going to blow into something, I'll let them go. If I don't think they're going to blow into something, If it's an eight point and he's always going to be an eight point, he might kick a nine hour or another point. But uh, he's a hundred thirty or hunting forty, and I don't think he's gonna do any better. I'll go ahead and harvest that particular animal. But I really don't have but maybe three shooters that I'm looking at right now, and the and the highest scoring one's probably in the mid fifties. But that's not uncommon right now because there's so many standing crop fields around me, a lot of solid beans and a lot of standing carn So my farm usually changes once the the adjacent landowners get their get their crops out, then I start seeing some new bucks pop up. Okay, that makes sense now. This this brings to mind a question that a couple of our our readers and listeners had posted on Facebook page when they mentioned when I mentioned that you're gonna be on the show, and several people have asked about your perspective on how the recovery from E h D has been in your neck of the woods. What does that look like at this point? Do you feel you're coming out of it or is it still impacting your herd? Well, it's funny that you ask that, because I could smell when I thought were too dead deer today, uh, in different locations, and I think that it's it's still here. I don't think we're remedied it. I think we're a long time getting back to where we were market. I knew that we saw the peak of the white tail hunting here. I'm gonna say in maybe ten, two thousand and nine and two thousand and ten, and then it has really been to decline ever since then. Not this past fall, but the previous fall is when I noticed it the worst. You know, when I would sit on a on a huge food pot or destination feed feel it was not uncommon to see twelve the fourteen bucks a setting. Well, a couple of years ago, two falls ago, I noticed that my my buck account was down. Well I'd be lucky to see five or six bucks, or maybe seven bucks, and it was literally cut in half. And that's where we have stayed, and that's let's remained. And even on my cameras, the buck numbers are way way down, and I just don't see it recovering very very quickly. I think this could be ten, fifteen, twenty years in some areas. There were areas in Illinois and we had a farm over their lease last year. It was just absolutely void of deer. It was one of the best looking pieces I've ever set foot on, and it was the worst piece I've ever hunted on. It's just they're they were all dead. So when that happened, it takes a long time to get back to where we were. And that's provided that their immune system they can they can beat the disease. So until the midge goes away, which I don't think it ever goes away, or their immune system gets to a level where they can find it off, that's that's where we're at. Now. There are ways of trying. We've got a supplemental feeding program from a company called Analogics that's targeting, uh, some of the supplements that they need within their system. It would be like a man over fifty taking you know, men one a day. You know where he needs, He's got certain needs that he goes through with iron and all these other things. Well, that's kind of what they've done with their supplement and uh, thus far, you know, we don't have any results because we just started started the supplemental program or I'm going to say in March of this this past march. So we're hoping that we'll be able to curtail it, and it's really about building a healthier herd. But they you know, they look at the copper, they look at selenium, manganese, iron, and all of these different minerals that you see throughout the country. And it varies from state to state. They've done a lot of uh scientific, you know, investigation from state to state and tried to figure out what the best solution is. And it varies as far as their mixtures are concerned as well. But we've been doing a supplemental feeding program that we're hoping to kind of help build a healthier heard. Good. That's good. Um. Now, as far as you know, you talk to some people, they don't hunt early season. They wait for the right they wait for it to get good. Um. So there's y ask some people it's a negative thing hunting early season. You ask some people it's a you know, they love hunting the early season. Um, what do you think are a couple of benefits of hunting early season? You know, I particularly like hunting. Obviously it's the most trying of times because you sit there and the mosquitoes and the bugs and all these little black flies and everything are trying to bite kid stick kid in each and all that stuff, and the woods are full of ticks and tiggers and their things, So it's it's kind of a challenge to do that time of year, but that's when I work on my shooting skills, and I really am aggressive when it comes to doe harvest. But yeah, and I realized not every area has got a buck to door race like ours, but so many of our bucks got taken out with the HD and it didn't affect that dose quite as heavily. So my numbers are way out of whack, and and the deer density is extremely high in this particular area. So I really really try to hone in them and sharpen those those archery skills. And I do that by harvesting does and you know we do. We take care of a lot of the meat and make sure that it goes to share the harvest program. Some of it will go ahead and take to a processor and get the freezers filled up right away. But we're very, very sortive and very aggressive on that early season. With that with the early season dough harvest. With that being said, it's one of the best times in the of the year. If you got a daylight walker and he's coming by a camera on a pretty regular basis, by got it, And a guy needs to be aggressive and jump in on him and try and harvest him those first two or three days of the season, because it's a really really start window. And if you've got a daylight walker and you know he's bed very very close, you know you gotta swip in there and not make any noise, make sure the ends correct, to make sure you've got the right access, and on and on and on. But uh, it is a perfect time of the year, the hardest of big mature deer. So that brings up another question, then, Terry Um, if you do have that situation um where you find a day walker or day walker on camera, how do you go about setting that straight? You mentioned a couple of the factors that imagine wind, weather or whatever, etcetera. But how do you go about planning that first one to three hunts. Are you going in there and just saying, Okay, this is the camera I've got, I'm gonna hunt the stand closest to that trail camera where I've got pictures of him when the conditions are right, or do you do you put together a longer strategy. Okay, over the course of the three days, I'm gonna move closer with observation stands or anything like that. You know, what does that plan look like? Once you know you have a daylight walker. Well, I like what you just said there. That's a really good point. And that's one of the ways to do it is to observe a night or two first in kind of walk where he's coming out. And then typically that time of year, when they get onto either a biblegic field or let's say a green soybean field, they don't move very far once they get into the middle of that thing. They just stand there and eat like an old cow, and they just don't go very far and then they turn and they may go back to their bed. So one of the things that you have to remember if you're getting daylight photos, he's beted very very close to that particular spot. They're not walking, you know, a half a mile to get there and and pop out before dark. That they're bedded right off the food typically that time of year when it's when it's extremely warm and they know they've got a green food source, very very close. If you're getting pictures at four thirty five thirty six or even seven. Uh, the chances are he's betted right there close. So I would probably observe at least one or to night and try and figure out exactly where he's popping up and then how far out into the field he's going. But then I'd mash in on him pretty quick because he's not going to do it very long. And then once the mass crop starts falling, if you get an acorn crop, he may disappear completely for another month or two and you may not team again. So that's the other reason I pile in on him pretty heavy, because the acorns haven't hit the ground yet. So if you've got a green food source, and and we've got a lot of biologic plannet right now, we've got some standing side beans as well, but we've got something that we find its extremely palatable this time of year, and that's biologic rashes. Man, they just tear them up, and we've got really, really good luck with them. So we'll sit over those, maybe watch them an evening or two. If we got a shooter that's coming out, and then we're piling on him pretty close and we'll get we'll get to that right stand the closest stand. But we're gonna make sure the winds right. We're gonna make sure that we have the right wind speed. Wind velocity is just as important as wind direction. If you've got a north wind at two to three mile an hour or you have a north wind at eight to ten mile an hour, huge difference, absolutely huge different small Those light, lighter winds are usually variable. The stiffer winds are usually a little more consistent. But if you got a light win that's variable and you know he's very close, pretty good chance you'll bump him out of his bed, or he may not show up at all. He may just lay there and not move. So you have to be cognitate of the wind speed along with that wind direction. Interesting point you bring up there, Terry, is there a wind speed that's getting too high? It sounds like there's that really low speed is dangerous. Middle ground. Maybe eight to ten is ideal because it consistent. Though is there a point where it becomes too much? Well, the hard kind of dictates that. And if you deal a win that's over thirty mile thirty five and even twenty five on our wind, the da to react really was skittish, and you you can see that in their reaction. But I will tell you this, I've and this is probably not wise, but I have a hunted in a lot of higher winds. As a matter of fact, that one of the only deer I saw one evening was too or a shooter, and uh it was I think the wind was gusting about fifty mile an hour and we were strapped in there as tide as we could get, but ended up killing the animal. And he was the only deal we saw that evening. So it's not uncommon for a maturity here to move when nothing else moves and it just will happen to wind was high enough with a none moved, but he did. So you know, it's it's kind of a double edged sword. You you don't want to sacrifice safety by all means. You got to make sure that your safety harness is attached. And a lot of times when it's windy like that, we'll put two on. I'll put two harnesses or to safety belts on just for for safe keeping. Will make sure that we're in a pretty dog on durable treaty, not a small trunk one one that's that you know, can withstand the thirty and forty mile and our wind speeds. But uh, it just doesn't get too windy for me, I will be honest, So we don't. We don't mind sitting in some windy weather as long as we're strapped in tight and we know it's safe. Good deal, Good deal. Now, Um, when it comes to early season hunting, are you guys hunting uh mornings at all? Or if not, when do you guys start hunting more? Good question? No, we're not hunting mornings, and a lot of that is because our camp, we let our cameras there again dictate the times that we hunt. But if you really watch and study photos, and we do, Mark and I collectively take about a million pictures a year, and I'm probably sitting on maybe a hundred and seventy eighty thousand, then I've looked at it ready this year. But if you watch those times, typically those big mature year or back in their beds, or you'll see the photos that four qualty five five am, that buddy come daylight. You just don't see many pictures of them. So rather than bump them out of out of an area, if we know he's coming out in the evening, because it's not uncommon to see them in a big bottom field where was a little bit cooler something, or a cool area, shady area. You'll see them pop out in the evenings. But what we don't want to do is run or bump them out of their bed for an evening hunt. So we put all of our marbles in the ask it for evenings and we just don't try not to do any intrusion and try not to bump of other beds in the morning because we feel as though we do more harm than good. Now as the season progresses and we get through the month of October. In November, that's when we start hunting mornings, and because the deer to go through a little bit of a change as well. The last ten days of October, and I'm specifically talking about the Midwest here. I know it varies when you get into the northeast and the in the southeast and the northwest, all of that kind of changes a little bit. But here in the Midwest and I'm talking Iowa, Illinois, Missouri, Kansas. Uh, we'd like to spend the last ten days in October in the afternoons and evening, the first ten days of November in the morning, and then the second ten days in November. Typically we go, we'll hunt all day. That mid day movement just get so much better in that second uh period of during November. The second sent through the y terry are you there? Hey, we got it. Sounds like you dropped off for just a second there. Last thing we heard you say is that that second part of November is when they really start moving all day. Yes, that we again, I'm going to reiterate. The first ten days in November is definitely mornings here in the Midwest, and then the tent through the second ten day period is typically midday stuff. That's one of those books uh guns have started cracking, and all of a sudden they start moving during those midday hours in lieu of that early morning. But those first ten days we like to try and catch them going back to bed. You know, they've been out roaming all night looking for those destrous goose are the first available astros does that have popped? And you'll see that they're a little bit later getting back in their bed. Then at first ten days in November, so that's where we try and head them off and intercept those bedrooms. And now you mentioned when when talked about the time we have when these deer starting to move during daylight. You mentioned how you're looking at your cameras to verify that. Can you elaborate lo bit on how specifically you're using these cameras during that first part of the year, Like where are these all on food sources that those first few weeks of the season, or you putting them on like you mentioned scrapes, or where are the where are these trail cameras at that time? Great question, and I will I'll add a line here that that the reconics cameras and and really the inception of trail cameras in general has changed or has been the biggest change that we've seen in whitetail hunting in the most recent of years. It's a it's a paradigm shift because it gives you a tool that you know, hunters just didn't have before. We worked on the Wildlife five years ago where we had a camera with a lank connection and we were actually laying down many DV footage. It was a lot of video footage and we were just mesmerized by this stuff. Well, with the inception of these cameras now there's so much easier to set up and they're easier to maintain and easier to look at. We've kind of switched everything over to the Reconics cameras and things have come full circle now everybody's going with the video. But with that being said, it's the single most importain thing that we have as far as the beneficial tool in trying to hunt whitetail and early season, you know, we may have had them on some of these supplemental feeders that I was talking about, uh you know where we're using the Analogics three sixty five product, and you'll keep your feeder or keep your cameras on the feeder so that you can watch and see the actual development, the antler development, what bucks have returned, what bucks have fell off, and you can't find. But as the season gets closer and we take we pick up all of our feeders. We don't want them out there, you know, because it's not legal number one, to hunt over feeder in uh in Missouri and all that. There's several states where it's not legal Iowa. Uh So we pick up all the feeders and bring them back in and then I shift and move all the cameras and put them all on scrapes and a lot of them are in and around those food plots that we have. We've got biologic maximum biologic winter ball than sugar beat biologic radishes. So these scrapes are in and around those fields where they're gonna be, uh, you know, coming to a green food source here real soon. And I'm saying probably anywhere through that month of October when they really start hitting the green food sort and they'll start hitting those scrapes. Uh. And it just continues to develop and get a little more intense as the season progresses. But we try to stay ahead of that rut and we move our cameras fairly early again. Uh, and I'll reiterate this. I went and it took a weed eater and I we eat an area because some of the weeds were three and four foot tall. And you don't number one, you don't want your camera to be clicking off pictures, so and the number two, you want to have that available there spot so a white tail and see it, and he's gonna walk over to it once he drops his velvet. That that loving and scraping stuffs right away. And we just want to have those those scrapes available for him to go to make it easy as you can for them. They're out of lazy. Now. Is there a particular date that you would say, maybe in October that's kind of like a light switch where the deers start finding a little bit more interest in the dose. They're up on their feet a little bit more. Not necessarily running activity yet, but they're they're kind of getting that interest. Yeah, i'd think here in the mid whilst that period from which Halloween has always been a good one, but anywhere from the twenty seventh of October, it really starts to crank it up. And it's so leather dependent, you know, white kills are not too indifferent from humans. They're gonna lay there until the temperature feels right, you know. And if it's still eighty five degrees at the end of October, and they're obviously not going to be walking onto that green food source during daylight hours, they're gonna wait till cools down. And it might be eleven and eleven thirty at night. But if you've got a nice little cool front and you're hitting some highs in the mid thirties or maybe in the fifties at that tail end of October, or we really have had great block twenty seven twenty and then all up through Halloween. It's just magical how that light switch turns on that that period. I love keying in on those cold fronts two at that time of year. It just it changes everything. Like you said, now related to that, when it comes to fronts moving and stuff, something I've heard you talk a lot about on your videos or TV show is the impact of barometric pressure. And this is something that I think a lot of people hear about but don't really clearly understand how that influences deer movement or impacts a deer. So I would love to hear if you could give us maybe a one oh one on how you look at pressure and changing pressure and how that impacts how you hunt and how dear move God, I love your questions. You guys are on it now. The barometer isn't the only thing. It's an indicator. And why can I use it as an indicator because typically at a falling barometer will be associated with a low pressure system that may be coming in a lot of pressure. Usually are going to be uh starting a counter clockwise rotation. When it comes to the air air movement, so a loan is usually associated with counterclockwise rotation. A rising barometer is typically when a front has passed through and you're gonna see a high pressure system. The high pressure system is typically associated with clockwise rotation. So, uh, we watched those barometers because normally they're gonna be indicative to those fronts prior to the front getting here or after the front has cleared out. But a we hunt them both. We hunt lower, then we hunt high. We hunt falling barometers, and we hunt rising barometer. Typically the movement is better with a rising barometer on a high pressure system after a low has pushed through. Not saying that the movement isn't good ahead of that low, but it's usually pretty good when that high ushers in cuting temperatures, you've got a really high sky, you've got clockwise rotation, a rising barometer, and nearly all the deer get up on their feet and move a low pressure system, you will see it will be rather random, but you may see the biggest deer in the woods might move ahead of that low, knowing there's something coming. He may he may just move it from one side of the ridge to the other. He might go grab a bite and then go lay down. But a low pressure system is not the worst time to hunt. That you may not see the numbers up there that you would see on a high pressure system after the lower has cleared out. But we used the barometer as an indicator. Uh, and we just have had better luck on highs with a rising barometer than we have with lows and a falling barometer. I'm gonna have to go back and re listen to this and take notes to make sure. I really I want to make sure. I want to make sure I process this because this is a good stuff. But I'm sorry if I go too quick. But can I talk about on a daily basis? And and again I said it early long we're students of the game, and we never stopped blaming, and we're always it's a chess match. When you ask checkers a chest. We love a good us match where if you want to get in a good chess match, try and tackle a big light tail that's six or seven years old and then try and figure him out. I mean, you literally seem dumber and dumber by the day because they always seem to win. So when you do beat one at his own game, it's a big deal. And particularly whenever you've got a camera over your shoulder. It's it's just not it's not easy to do. Last year, on hundred fifty eight days before I killed my first one. It's just it's like the impossible. It's like winning the lottery when you kill on the bow over your shoulder with a camera over your shoulder. It literally is a tough, tough deal. So Mark and I study this stuff on a daily basis and we try to to process as much information as we possibly can, and then we like to scare it with people and hopefully it helps somebody else. That's how big thing. We've learned it the hard way, and we've made all the mistakes and we just want to try and help somebody else to learn to kill a big deal or maybe not make the mistakes that we made growing up. Yeah, it's it's that chess match. I think that keeps us coming back, you know, season after season. Right, it's just an incredible challenge. But like you said, when it actually all comes together, holy smokes, that is an incredible feeling and accomplishment, that's for sure. Now tying into the same deal here we meant we talked about how the barometer and rising or falling pressure impacts dear. Another factor that people are constantly hypothesizing about is the moon. How the moon phase affects deer movement. How you know the rising and setting moon times affects dear movement. What are your thoughts on how the moon influences dear? And then can you give us a primer on you know what, what's the right moon phase in your opinion, or what's the you know I've meant I've heard about when you mentioned there's a rising, early rising moon you want to be hitting the food sources earlier. I'd love to hear more about you your thoughts in the moon well. And and that's why this is a chess match because number one, whether is first and foremost. Number two is that moon phase, and and all of these all of these triggers matter. So when you talk about a chess match, because when you're looking at a chess board, you have to think about the bishop, you have to think about the rook, you have to think about the ponds. You gotta think about the king, the queen, and so on and so forth, and go right on down the line. With white kill hunting, you have to think about every single parameter and then try and stack the odds in your favor. And that's really all you're doing is stacking the odds. You try to if you try to go in there with everything stacked in your favor the best you can. Sometimes you make the right decision, and sometimes you make the wrong one. But the moon is number two on our list of importance. Number one is weather. It trumps everything. If you've got a cold front and uh, you know, let's say it's a forty degree temperature differential, those deer are going to get up and move to a food source. If you've got a rising moon in the afternoon and evenings in the latter part of October, when they typically would be going to a green food source, and when the moon trades coincides with their normal feeding patterns, that is the optimum. So if you've got a rising moon and it would happen to be waxing full, you're gonna see more deer up on their feet. And when I stay a rising moon, and I'm talking about one that's coming up, it's not too in different from the sun. It rises in the east and it sets in the west. And if you've got a moon that's coming up at let's say three or three thirty in the afternoon, or maybe even two thirty four authority, all of a sudden you start seeing peaking up up over the horizon, and by five thirty in the evening it's already starting to park high in the sky. There. Well, all of a sudden, those deer it's almost like a biological clock. It just it kind of triggers something in there physiologically, it makes them get up and go to a food source. And conversely so so therefore, in the latter parts of October, you would love to have a rising moon. It's waxing pull all right, that's the optimum, and it has to coincide with weather. In the early part of November, like the front is ten days of November, you would love to have a setting moon that's hanging a little bit late in the sky. And a lot of times you drive to work and you'll see the moon still up and you'll be like, go on, I wonder, you know, I didn't never thought that it was still up. Or you just happen to be driving down the highway and you notice the moon. If that moon is setting to the rest and it's and it's still hanging high in the sky at about I'm gonna say eight eight thirty nine am in the morning the first night, the first ten days in November. That again is the optimum. It causes them to be on their feet just a little bit later than normal. It's almost like a false alarm where typically that already be back in their bed, but because the moon is still up in the sky, they haven't made it back to the bed yet. Therefore, or you want to be in that bedroom the first ten days in November because they've been out all night, that moon has been high in the sky. They might have bedded up off of a food source very very close. And then they're gonna wait to all those days make it back into their bedroom, and then they're gonna be checking door trails, uh and and be the last one to bed. It's not uncommon to see a big bucket at nine thirty ten, ten thirty km holligag and really will slow through the woods checking door trails. They approach ten days in November. So therefore you want that moon still kind of hanging high in the sky and and stay in your stand until after it's sept Sometimes it's another thirty minutes, another hour until the moon disappears and they still will be up on their feet. So we really really watched that moon face and U if it coincides with their normal feeding pattern and their normal betting pattern, you just can't beat it. Along with weather. I love this topic. This has been kind of my little pet project this past off season, is trying to better understand the moon and how that influences dear movement and stuff. So this is fascinating. I love this. UM. I would tell you this, we live and die by it. Mark and I. They're watching it for a long time. When we live and die by it, and you can almost set your watching. Uh, if you really watch that moon and you can be the pot. Now that's provided the weather is correct and you've got cool attempts and all that other stuff. But man, it's it's amazing to watch that moon phase. But it has to coincide with their normal fee to bed pattern as well. Just because the moon is rising like last year and was so upside down it wasn't even funny. That's part of the reason that everybody had so much trouble. It was rising when it should have been setting, and it was setting when it should have been rising. And it just didn't coincide with their normal feed to bed pattern and it was horrible, absolutely horrible. Uh So, no matter how good the weather was and all that other stuff, it was tough last year and the h D a couple of HD with a with a wrong moon. It was really really bad. Yeah, that was a perfect storm. Now, the natural foul up question of this then, is how, if at all, do you think the moon affects the timing of the rut. That's one of the popular theories out there. There's there's a couple of different camps on this, but where do you stand on if the moon moon phase impacts timing of that rut? Well, I think it does, and I think it varies from state to state, and we see that because we hunt so many different states. But I think the firearms season, when they come in and out in different states, I think it has somehow affected when that rep kicks in and when they do the majority they're breeding, when they locked down, and all of those other elements. I do also think that that moon phase still triggers it. Uh And it's usually seven to ten days after that moon wacks as full. That's whenever those dolls pop in. The estrus in a big way. And I'm saying the second moon, not the harvest moon, of the harvest is in October, but the second moon there in November when it pops, and it's usually seven to ten days after that is when those when it wacks us full. It's usually seven to ten days after that that those does all pop, and that's when everything gets locked down and you just don't see a shooter. Yea up. That is the infamous lockdown. Now he said, let me back up just a little bit. That when that interlocks is still in October, even though it's the harvest moon. Typically there's a few doors that pop. There's always some early doughs and those will be the first available Estras does. It is the single best time to kill a matual white tale because those bigger, those bigger box always trying to sniff out that first available Estras dove. And every year in the end of October there's always some giants killed because I believe there's a few doughs that pop early uh in the rest of the home of the top in November, but there's always a few available esters do there in October in those first the first fewer when those big deers, those big adult, mature dear I don't feel looking and they usually locked down with them for a few days. But it's a it's a tremendous time to kill a big deer. Wow. So you said waxing full in October late October, right, that's the key. I absolutely, absolutely yeah, because it's usually after after that wacks this full, it's about seven to ten days until they come into estris. Now, those bucks are usually ready that the dolls are not. So you'll see those bucks come onto a feed field and they'll be nudging around and you know, spawning a little bit. And uh if a younger buck gets a little bit too close to some of the dolls, and obviously a fight ensues. But it's it's always that the bucks are ready and the doors are not, so that moon might be full, and always a sudden you see all these giants stopping around on the field because they're ready to go, but yet she's not. So it's a little premature. But then seven to ten days after it wacks this full and she goes into estris, boom, all of a sudden, they disappear. You don't see him again for another week or so. Because they get locked down and they're with that dough, and and then and then you have that dry spell even on the cameras. Your cameras just absolutely good dead. Wow. I gotta figure out some way to get you and Mark to write a book about all these ren moon, barometer, temperature, weather factors. This is fascinating, fascinating stuff. UM. I love it. I'm just trying to keep up over here. I know this is this is good. UM. I want to take a quick step back though, Terry, back to early season real quick here. Uh, you know we're still related to weather here, I guess right in the early season, as you mentioned, your battling elements, whether it be bugs or in many cases hot temperatures. And you know, I've certainly experienced those temperatures impacting my ability to stay sent free. So I'm curious to hear about how you handle sent control during those first few weeks of the season given the average higher temperatures. Well, you know, we've we've been really, really consummate about practicing scent control for a long long time, and there's only so many things that you can do, but we're going to do them to the ins degree or to the best of our ability to try and make sure that we're as sent free as possible. And it's everything from our camera bags to you know, the boots were wearing, to your half, all of this thing at the gloves, your your release a, there's even your bowl for that matter. You've got to be so cautious in making sure that they're sprayed down and making sure that they're white clean, making sure that there isn't any residual smell on because the White Kills knows is the key to survival. And we're gonna show every day during this this other season we were a two good time today. Uh clothes, We're gonna make sure that they're all in the proper clothes wash. We use under armed spray to spread down each and every time before we had a field, we keep a spray bottle with as we're approaching the stand, we're gonna stray down again. So we're very very liberal and using that spray and we believe in it well practice it, but we make sure that everything is sent free from you know, using the they make hair and body wash now and conditioners and all that stuff, and and then all the clothes and detotents you can use that are all sent free. But we were really, really uh adamant about going through that regiment each and every day. And it's not about little lazy. I mean, you know, you can you can walk out there and you didn't get grass, and you can go to the click shop and get to walk in and get a bottle of water, a candy bar or whatever. Well, you're so contaminated when you walk out of there, it's not even funny. So we make sure that all of our stuff stay sent free, uh, and we just keep it outside or in a in a container and then we just absolutely really go to the inst degree to try and stay as sent free as possible. And it's a job. It's a it's a regiment, it's but it's it's part of what we do, and it's part of what a lot of guys do that practice it, and the ones that practice it to the instagree are usually the ones that are successful. Yeah, I tend to agree with you. I don't think you can ever do too much to try to control that scent. It's just so so important and related to that wind direction and how you're hunting wind direction. I'm curious you know that are you typically setting up so that the wind is in your favor, making sure obviously that you don't want your wind blowing towards where those deer going to be. Or do you factor in how the deer is trying to use the wind to his favor as he approaches the food source or whatever. How do you balance that if at all? I think we do a little bit of boat. And I say that because when we're hunting over a food source, like the latter part of October, you know, we're always going to have the wind in our face, and we just try to try to You're gonna give up a down wind side that can't be helped, but we always try to sit with it. We walk in with the wind in our face, and we'll sit with the wind in our face. As the season progresses, the start to you know, dive off into the timber, let's say the first ten days in November. If you're gonna try and get into the bedroom, Uh, then we're a little bit different. I may sit on top of a high ridge and let that we carry out over a really really deep valley, and it may not it may not hit the ground and tell the ridge on the other side. So we try to play with scumals particularly we're talking about low push or hot crusher. While ago, we're gonna sit high in the morning when the thumbals are gone up and can carry you in for a long way, to carry your sent for a long way. And then in the evenings we try to sit low. We try to sit, you know, down in the creek better, down in our bottom field because as the temperatures fall in the evenings, that tunnels are dropping. So we're not going to sit high on top of the ridge when our thermals are slotting down the hillside. That just doesn't work. So we're very cognizant about it. But it's a matter besides being sent free. Your tunals are so important. And in addition to all that, what are these the atonics. We've got a company called Ozonics that that's got a piece of equipment now that we're used on a daily basis, use it regularly, and we've had extremely extremely good results with these ozonics. Uh they create ozone and uh it'll it kind of fools. The white tails knows where you build this imaginary blanket and the ozone rider just drops to the ground and it is a situation where uh it works a little bit better when you have a constant wing speed and you have a high pressure in little low. But we just have tremendous lot with these ozonics, these ozone generators. Yeah, Dan and I actually have both been using ozans for a while too, and it's we're right there with you. We're really, really do believe that it makes a big difference, that's for sure. I'll tell you have to be students of the game, and you've gotta learn. There's a learning curve because I use it wrong the first few times that I put it out, and I finally figured it out. We've had communications with the manufacturers, reps and the owners and all that, and it's a constant, you know, a constant maintenance issue where you may be moving it if the wind direction is shifting a little bit. But once you find out the predominant wind direction and you can get except the whe you want it, then you had tremendous results. But there was a little bit of a learning curve, and we made all the wrong mistakes both And you know, I'm just hung into a tree a let of goal. Well, that's not the way you do it. When when the wind shifts a little bit, sometimes you may have to move it just lightly, but once you get it set right now we've had really really good luck. Little big Buck will walk right through it. Not like anything, not the wiser. Yeah, it's it's incredible. How I mean, like anything, there's nothing that's foolproof. You're never gonna be invisible to a deer's nose. But every little bit that can help, in my opinion, is is something I want to try. And so I really do feel like this is one of those pieces there are tools in our toolbox that can help us. Um, that's great, he stated on It's about stocking the odds, and that's really all you're doing is trying to put as many odds in your favor as you possibly can. And sometimes the morrowd you put in your favor, the better your success is. Yeah, so true, so true. Now we are coming up here pretty close on time, and I know you're busy checking trail cameras and you're out there on your farm. So I'm gonna try to wrap things up here in a quick second. Terror, but I have one last question then I think Dan does as well. We actually interviewed your son Matt a few weeks ago here on the podcast and During that interview, we asked him, if he was placed on a random new property somewhere in the Midwest to hunt for seven days, who would he rather have guide him and help him out on that hunt. Would he rather have you or Mark? He'd shows Mark. So I'm curious to what what do you think about that? How do you respond? What does that surprise me? Not really Mark? Mark and I have both very very analytical, but market an aggressive a sort of individual when it comes down to crunch time, buddy, he's gonna if he's got to move a stand, or if he's got to move a camera, or or if he's got to put panels on it in a tree, he's gonna do whatever it takes to harvest in the trial white tail. He's just, uh, consummate professional. He's he's good at what he does when it comes to that chess match. He's as good as it get when it comes to hunting big whitetail. So I probably have to agree with Matt. I hate too, but I have to agree with him. You're a pretty good sport. You're just gonna cut him out of the will, right. You just should have asked Matt how many dinner he's killed on Mark's farm, and how many deer he shot on my farm? And in that kiss, then would you take the kick to Yeah, but I don't know how long feedmat Yeah. I guess that's that's how it's supposed to go with parents and their kids. That's pretty cool. Well, I like that one. Dan. Do you want to wrap things up here with the final question for Terry? Yeah? And this is kind of if if you were to provide a message to all of the listeners out there on any one tactic or maybe a piece of advice when hunting. You know, this podcast is in relation to early season or or hunting in general. Is there a tactic or a piece of advice that you would share? You know what I'm gonna I'm gonna take this this brief moment to say safety first. I just don't think that it's it's preached enough. I don't think it's talked about enough. There's so many good harnesses out there, so many manufacturers that build good harnesses, and there's still so many fatalities and so many uh this, you know, uh injuries, disabling injuries each and every year. Uh. There's no reason for it. And we're fortunate in the fact that we're two guys hunting together. We always have a videographer with us, so if something would happen, we've got somebody that it can help us. But for the most vast majority of people are out there buy themselves. Sometimes monthing knows where they're at, where they're hunting. Uh, they have to practice safety first. I just can't stress the importance of that enough. With that being said, the second thing I'd like to talk about is UH game violations. There's are too many of those. The regulations are put into place for a reason. UH. Please stay in contact with your conservation agent whoever's in your area trying be there our eyes and ears, let them as much as we can. You know, every state is limited on the budget. We don't have near enough conservation officers out there to do the job. So many of them are are trying to cover two and three big gigantic counties and they just can't be everywhere one time. So you know, I would stress the factor and happy agent. You know, and obey the laws, obeata regulations, respect your neighbor, and respect the corey that you seek. That's Uh. Those few little things are what we live and die by. Each and every day, and we we are gonna always, you know, remain that way, and I hope that others will do the same. Yeah, that's good advice, very good. Yeah. I think some some really great reminders, very timely given the fact that so many people are gonna be hitting the woods here soon. So so thanks for that, Terry. And and that said, you know, I think this has been an awesome and awesome conversation. And you know, if our listeners want to learn more about what you're up to or the rest of the Jury Outdoors team, where can they go? Terry absolutely long on to our website at Drey Outdoors dot com. Uh, you can catch us on Facebook and Twitter and Instagram and all those things. Matts and that's the one that handles a lot of that, and Taylor does as well. Those are social media gurus, so you may get in contact with one of them, but you can always log on to Drey Outdoors dot com. Excellent. Will We will be sure to include those links in the blog when we post this podcast. So, Terry, I just want to say thank you so much for taking the time and chatting with us. I've I've learned a lot. I think our listeners have to and it's been a lot of fun. So thank you. You're quiet welcome. Thank you guys. Mark and I are students of the game and we're going to continue that way, and whatever we learn we're going to share with whoever wants to listen. It sounds like a good plan. Good luck this good luck this season, and you guys as well. I hope you will kill a monster this year. We hope so too. All Right, Terry, thanks again, have a good one. Thank you guys, take care. Wow, I hope you're able to judgest all that because Terry was just overflowing with great advice. I really enjoyed that chat. I hope you did too. That said, as always, if you did enjoy the show, we would really appreciate if you leave a rating or review on iTunes. It takes us a couple of minutes, but it makes a big difference. So thank you in advance for that, and a huge thank you to the people that have already left reviews. We really appreciate it. Speaking of thanks, we'd also like to thank our excellent partners who helped make this show possible. So big thanks to Sick of Gear, Trophy, Ridge Bear, Archery, Redneck Blinds, Carme Express Arrows, Hunt Soft Lacrosse, Boots, Big and J Longrange Attractants, and the White Tail Institute of North America. Also be sure to visit wird hunt dot com slash episode to view the show notes and links from today's episode. That said, thanks again wird Hunt Nation for being here with us today and until next week, and get to work preparing for opening day and stay weird Hunt