00:00:08 Speaker 1: This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You can't predict anything presented by on X. Hunt creators are the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the Hunt app from the iTunes or Google play store. Nor where you stand with on X. Okay, we're joined today by Dave Seminette. You prefer Seminett, I prefer Siminette. Yeah, who are many among many other things? You have your own you have your own solo stuff. Then you have your kind of solo stuff called dead Man Winner, and then you have you're not nearly as solo stuff Undertrampled by Turtles. Yeah about sums it up? Yeah, let's say you did it. You were gonna sum it up. How do you like when you're like sitting there talking to someone, They're like, what do you do? Yeah? I mean I I guess I would just say that I'm a songwriter, and then I have those different vehicles for doing it, you know. But Trampled by Turtles is, you know, my main gig, That's what I spend most of my time with. And then um, you know, all of us in that band have other other side projects, are other ways to uh to do whatever we do. So we give each other time to do this, and it gives me time to make music with other people and music on my own. Um, but most of it's trampled by turtles. I got a cautionary tale for you. Okay, there has nothing to do with what we're talking about right now. Well, I just wanted to do that intro, and then we're gonna do a couple of things and then we'll come back. Um, we're gonna talk about your fishing trip this weekend and like why you're in talent and stuff. I was at the gym there to day and there's this elderly woman there you outlifted. I already heard the story, which is why I'm laughing. The greatest story in the world. It's a great story. She's uh, she works her ass off this gym, and I heard her complaining, overheard her complaining to her trainer. She said, um, she goes, you know, men have gotten so sedentary, and she says, do you know there are men who cannot carry a sack of fertilizer? And then she goes, you need to know this, and then she said there are men with no toolkit. So it's like, watch out right. If you're a dude, that's this could happen to you that you find yourself incapable of carrying sacks fertilizer. I wanted to break in and be like, well, how big if it's like a hunter pounds sack? I mean you're being harsh, twenty pound sack? I mean come on? Yeah, oh man, that's great. You're gonna show up to your next um tinder date and there's just gonna be a sack of fertilizer next to the front door every time I walk in that Jim, I'm coming in there with a sack of fertilizer tool kit, one on each shoulder. Um uh else on top about you're honest, you wanted to update us on your how do you spell your dog's name? Am I n g U S? I want to hear about what's going on with you and this dog and the raccoons. Yeah, well, our buddy finally got some raccoons. It's been tough raccoon trapping, um, even for somebody that had a whole bunch of raccoons on his place, but he finally got one. The first one though, it didn't turn out very well for him. I thought I had been advised that you could leave a raccoon in a trap for a day or so. Clarify that you're talking about a live trap. Live trap, yeah, have a heart basically just a long rectangular box with a name like have heart. Yeah, and uh so, anyways, this first raccoon kind of small, smallest raccoon. By the time I got to him, he had perished, Or we should clarify. The guy that's catching the raccoons is has a does a lot of water foul nesting stuff on his place, and is controlling rack wounds. He believes that this will increase waterfowl reproduction. That's right, which by no means like makes any better what I'm doing to these raccoons. It's real, like, like I'm honestly moral dilemma, but it definitely tugs at my heart. Both directions doing like training mingus with these live raccoons, Well, this one was dead. So with the dead one, we did a little trail fifty yards or so, and then put the dead one up in a tree. Let mngus follow it. He went to the tree, saw the raccoon, barked at it, for fifteen minutes. We urged him on. The girls were there, my kids seven to nine, and uh, they cheered him on. He did well. I got a call the next morning another cone in the trap, so I went and picked it up. The next evening we did the same thing, except now we had a live raccoon in a trap, which we and we dragged the whole trap up a different trail, hung it up in the tree, and then repeated the process. I wanted to slip the raccoon run off and then he can track the raccoon well, because this is only his second time with the raccoon, right, so he's just we're just trying to make the connection and make sure that there is that connection. So we actually started with that raccoon in the trap on the ground at the base of the tree, and he sat there and barked and she snarled back and forth for five minutes, and then I hoisted it into the tree and we can we continued. So he's supposed to like get the idea that this animal is going to go to a tree and then go up into a tree. So the next morning we went out to Jake's farm and UH cut the raccoon loose. Why don't you go wear the hell out there? Just because he needed a big open field with a you know, with some big trees nearby. She drove all that way to do that. Well, I mean, I'm not can't do it in your backyard? Is like the world's divided into Jake's farm in my backyard. I know, but I mean just I don't know trying to your farm, and I don't everything else is my backyard. Think of a good spot around here that that would have been good for It's just a perfect setup. It's a dog safety thing too. Oh thousand places, you got one off the top of your head, just okay, okay, all fishing access sites, okay, well they might not have a nice mode field where you can like see where the raccoon is running right and so you can sort of control the situation. Okay, remember where we did where we did our company river access site clean up. I didn't make it to that played hooky. Oh yeah he went, Uh we had a company clean up where the whole damn company showed up to clean up a river access site and yeah, just decided to fish that day. I think that's bad fishing. Oh, dude. Al Right, So anyways, you drive hours away, one hour exactly. It's pretty common here in Montana to go for an hour long drive. Anyways, we started off with the raccoon in the trap again mingus they're barking at it, and we let the raccoon run, and we thought it was just gonna run across the field and right up into this cottonwood. You know, that's what we're expecting. But we didn't see in our mind's eye or just the way we were proceeding the place in the situation. We didn't see this, like the part that hadn't been cut yet, just all this tall grass where there's like a ditch running through it and whatever in the middle of this field, you know what I'm talking about, basically right there in front of the house. And uh so, the raccoons going towards the tree, and then besides, the hookah left into the grass is gonna get away. So we just cut Mangles loose at that point, and he did a good job, caught right up to it, and Jake was happy because he didn't really bark on the trail much at all. He only started barking once he got face to face with it, and so we repeated that maybe three times they'd be face to face for I don't know, a couple three minutes. We pulled Mangus off, let the raccoon get out, you know, three or four minutes, cut Ngus loose again and take them a little bit to figure out which way it went, because again in grass it is tall and thick, you can't see which way it went. And um, at one point the raccoon was actually attached to Mingus's head, which, as as a the dog owner, it definitely kind of scares you a little bit. You know, You're like, is that okay? And again like I'm lucky to have a good mentor, and he's like, yeah, it's all good. Like if it comes to it, your dog will kill that raccoon. Um, you have a raccoon's killed dogs, they do. He's the only thing he was worried about, which I've heard often is the deep water. Yeah, like there's deep water nearby, then they can actually get on the head like that and drown a dog. M Um. So eventually the raccoon did tree took Mingus a little bit, but eventually he got that he got to that tree and actually tried to climb the tree. Um came back to the tree multiple times, but never just sat there and barked at the tree, which would be what they called tree right, So we could see the raccoon in the tree, and he went around it a few times smelling it, but eventually was like, I can't put two and two together that that's where the raccoon is. Now I've lost its trail and he's sort of like faded away. Then we shot the raccoon out of the tree and was interesting as I thought there would be this big like dead raccoon mingus on top of it, just craziness, and there wasn't. He like went up to it, saw that it was dead, marked like two more times, and then pretty much turned around and was like, all right, what are we doing now? Once the raccoon was Dad is like no interest because Jake doesn't want raccoons either. What do you mean he doesn't want a lot of raccoons on its play now? He doesn't want toy we try to trap him there first. But yeah, so he's doing good. It's been fun. Uh when you get all when this dog is a great raccoon hunter and you start what do you can do? With all your raccoon hides because they're only worth a few bucks a piece. Right now, I didn't figure out what I'm gonna make out of him and then give everybody raccoon hats for Christmas. You're gonna go against try to go up against me and seth as the providers of fur garments around the office totally perhaps, like what are these raccoon heads instead? Um, I'm guessing there's gonna be quite a few. They get treated and don't get shot. You wanna watch how easily I could bring something full circle, But I'm not going to yet. Uh watch this Dave. Our guest was born in Germany, and you know what they do in Germany when they're training dogs. What they used to do is they would, uh make a raccoon go into a like a barrel or a cage. In Germany, I think this this outfit, this like used to be a way you test the metal of a dog. Is you'd have to have a dog and a raccoon like German wire hairs and whatnot. You make the dog and the raccoon fight it to the death in an enclosed area. It's like UFC for hunting. They'd fight it they'd fight to the death inside of thing, and that was like a thing. You'd go get a raccoon and your dog wasn't like a real dog until you until it did that. But there's a certain brutality to it. Man, Like you've crossed over into a really dangerous territory with what you're up to right now. Yes, I don't know if it's dangerous, but it's just crossed into like some questionable stuff. I feel. What's questionable about it? I just I think it's questionable with dealing with the with the live raccoons. I just feel like you could rile up someone's sensitivities. Oh, no doubt about it. The the I mean just the conversations that have been going on in my house over the last three days while this all has been going on. You know, it's interesting too with how the kids reacted differently between the when we train with the dead coon and then the live one. The dead one like gloves off, just like yeah, mants get in there and good boy, good boy, this that and the other, and then when it was alive, Kim it's like, well, we've named her be At, can we try feeding her? And I'm like, yeah, you can. But just remember Beatrice's life is, she's got about twelve more hours, you know. And uh so it was interesting seeing that they still cheered him on when we did the training with with the coon in the trap, but they definitely weren't quite like just like yeah in there, you know, they started to make a connection with that raccoon. It was interesting. My wife, she only joined in on the first session. Second session, She's like, nah, I had enough of that. I went out coon. I went out running raccoons a bit growing up, and I thought it was pretty interesting. But it was all at night, so it was hard to see what was going on. But I enjoyed going out with certain guys. This dude Carl I used to hang out with random. Yeah, it's interesting to watch them, you know, watch the dogs work, for sure. So David, tell me about telling me about your fishing trip this weekend. Yeah, yesterday, it was your first first fly fishing experience, right, I fished. I grew up fishing in Minnesota on lakes and have recently discovered trout fishing and there in the last few years. But I have just been using spinners and that's pretty common in that area. Right. Um, so I was pretty excited to have the opportunity to finally try a fly rod because I've always wanted to do it. And we went out on the yellow Stone with I don't know how many of us were there three there were three boats, there was um and it was a perfect day. It was beautiful, and I had a wonderful teacher, Sam, who showed me how to you know, almost how to not get stuck on everything. I threw my fly at and uh ended up catching a few fish. And I think, I'm, I'm, I'm you know, when I get home, I'm gonna go get a ride. And how man, I've yeah experience, you think, like if rate Sam like equally he's not here, Yeah, one to ten, ten being great, great guide, great, one being just awful, one being awful. Uh, even if he wasn't here, I think I still say a ten. Really Yeah, yeah, Hell, I needed a lot of you know, you pick up one of those rods and um, I don't know if any of you can remember before you did that, but it's a whole different motion, it's a whole different everything feeling everything. Um. So it was nice to have somebody who was who was pretty adamant about making sure at least had a good chance of catching the fish. Did he bust out the metronome? Did that work as a music? Felt like it was a little scripted, you know, but same you get you feel like you game gave a scripted like I was the first person to go, well, you know, I I go against the ten and two. I tell people eleven and one. If you're going to think about it that way, I think that's a more useful frame because it makes you keep the rod higher behind you. Um. But I mean, I've taught probably over a hundred people how to fly fish in my life. I've I've been teaching fly fishing since I was fourteen. I think, so it is a little scripted. I have certain things I like to say, and I think certain things that are helpful and some that are But I I still think Dave Sandbag and me, I still think he's secretly fly fished before and is like acting like this is the first time he picked it up faster than literally anyone I've ever seen. It's like a fly fishing shark. Yeah, I mean, I don't I don't know what you gain from this. How many how many instruments do you play? I really just wanted just the guitar. I mean, I can kind of play a few other ones, but I wouldn't say if you said, like a whole bunch of maybe just like really good you just had enough training to figure stuff out, stuff like figuring things out. Now. I'm generally not one of those people. I don't think, well, he took instruction well like he was. He was doing it very well, like pretty much right off the bat, and then ended up sticking to really nice drout that Literally, anybody who fishes the yellow Stone regularly would be like over the moon about catching How how did you have him rigged up? Weird fishing grasshoppers just single dry all day? Really, no little little teasers stay fingers, no, no, I droppers, No. It certainly doesn't make you any less snag prone to have all that stuff on there. And with two two folks who are relatively new to fly fishing, and they were they were eating the grasshopper right off the bat, and I mean that's kind of the one of the pinnacles of the fishing experience in my mind. So I'm like, let's go whole hog on that. We stopped a few times and I nimphed. I think I caught like one white fish doing that, but they're just coming up and smacking that grasshopp Yeah they were, Yeah, did you catch the fish, Meg? Yeah, I caught one twenty yards from the takeout, big brown trout, probably the biggest fish I caught, have caught it to date. What were we talking about the other day when we were fishing, having your your PB Oh, my pr PR personal record, no person, PEB personal beast, Peb's peanut butter and jelly, Steve, I don't know this is the thing to say, like my pr PR people say Pebmen use that a few acronyms. IVE never heard that. For runners. Megan's been saying that since she's fourteen years old. Yeah, running, Yeah, for running for fishing. Yeah, and you yesterday that I hadn't heard in quite a while. Was it l L D R? Yeah? And I was like, damn it, I know I didn't have one of those. I was just being polite, you know, letting him get off. Very sporting of you. Um I Uh. We fished this weekend where we went camping with our kids and our neighbors and their kids, and I had my first I had sworn I had vowed to never ride on a on a SUP. Suck man, s up dude, s up dude, to ever ride on a SUP stand up paddleboard. But uh, we're a little slow getting out the door on Friday, and I didn't bring my and I at the last minute was like, didn't bring my canoe. My kids had these little mini these a little mini old town kai X. I shoved two those in the back of the truck and my neighbor put in two SUPs and and we wind up at these lakes and you could see like there's nobody to get around the lake. You can't like walk the edge of the lake. I mean you could, but would be just the worst thing on the planet. And there's an inlet coming on the far side of this lake, and my kids wanted their little kayaks and they were being really selfish and rude, and so me and my neighbor had to get on his SUP and rode it over to the inlet. And holy smokes, that we catch fish. He was like had his fly rod and was swinging his little nymph through there and catching him. But I had a ziploc bag full of rotten nightcrawlers. My god. Then when they start to get all mushy and then you put him in a bag and it's like eight oh my god. Just you had like position yourself so the sack was down whin, but my guy was I getting them. I just cooler to get some of those out from the trip last weekend. My strategy. I just had six pounds of six pound floral tippet and I put a half of a rotten crawl around there and one split shot it would basically cast up into the creek and let it just wash down on natural into the lake. Yeah. We grilled a stack trout that night. So when you all exactly the same size, which made me suspiciously this long? Did you alter that because you were doing it with another guy on there? Does that make it better? Does that make it worse? No? I had to weigh out, like what's worse to not fish where you think you should be or to ride on a sup How do you rate this stuff now after you've done it? They don't handle in the wind very well because then like a hurricane force wind kicked up and had to come back over by myself to go get my sinkers. It is extremely challenging to fish off on one of those because you make a cast and then it spends a fish off. We have nine paddleboards, there's only two of you. Well, you need them for all different sorts of situations. You know what campgrounds they have those those racks, those welded racks to sit on that you and basically like they're like gravity supported, like gravity lock, so you can control the height. Um, my neighbor had this giant tote full of hardwood scraps from his shop and we just burned all those hardwood scraps down and filled one of those campground rings and then put that rack down there and just covered that rack. And expert fishing with the kids and everything just covered that rack and trout. It was good rainbows and we let some cots go. And then uh, there's this old dude camp by us by himself, and I got to feel bad for him, and I went over invited him for dinner, and he told me that he's got gout and don't eat seafood. No, I can't tell my kids go talk to that old man. See if you want to come to dinner. They wouldn't do it. So I was like, I'll go over there. Um, you're gonna when you leave here. You're on a road trip right now, Dave playing concerts audience, Yeah, if that. I had a two shows, one with another member of champled By Totals. We did a duo thing and Cheyenne a few nights ago, and then the one here down in Pine Creek, Um, and that was it. But I had some time around it, so it kind of decided to make it a little solo road trip, camping around. Drove out through the sand hills in Nebraska I've never seen before, so I was really good, cool experience to drive through that, and it kind of made my way down to Cheyenne and then up into through Shoshone and camped up their National Forest and still trying to figure out my route home, which starts today. What percent as a musician in this day and age, we're like selling albums isn't really a thing anymore? Um, well percent your income do you have to pull from touring, Let's say about ninety so right now, super unemployed? Right now you're just getting like brutalized by COVID. Respective. Yeah, the whole music business for sure, because everybody that's you know, there's the ones of us at play, but there's also the managers and booking agents and um even to a certain extent, the people that distribute recorded music all really depend on touring. That's the biggest way you publicize the release. So where we make our money. It's where every you know, everybody that works for us, our crew and all that make their money. So it's a lot of people that are trying to figure out what to do depending on how long this lasts. You know, UM, how long has it been that you were curious about wanting to take up hunting and do you view that this fall might be a great opportunity for you since you can't work. Well, I it wasn't really that long. I mean, I so two years ago. Now this followed me two years I went pheasant hunting for my first time, right, And that came about because there's uh at this outdoor radio program on the sports talk radio station in Minneapolis. Right, it's called Fan Outdoors on every Saturday and Saturday mornings. At my house, I was just had it on and become kind of a fan, and uh at one one episode they played some of our music and they subsequently reached out to me and asked if I'd ever want to be on the show. And so I did that. Um. And during that process they asked if I'd ever want to give pheasant hunting a try. And I mean, I grew up fishing and I was about it and camping and but I never thought one way or the other of hunting, and so I agreed to do it. Um. And it was the two gentlemen that took me out. Um Bob st Pierre, who's one of the guys at Peasants. Yeah, no, I know him, well, yeah, um, he's a he's a one of the hosts of the radio show. And uh um Billy Hilderbrand, who was a retired tournament bass fisherman and teacher or whatever. But they took me up to Billy's cabin in in central western Minnesota, kind of on the eastern edge of the prairie a little bit and had an amazing first pheasant hunt. You know, we had birds everywhere I got. I was able to take a couple of shots and it. Um. I was completely hooked after that first once. So since then get one I did. Yeah. Yeah, And I've been a few other times since and then have now gone up for grouse and woodcock a couple of times each and all through pretty much the generosity of these guys. You know, I'm using their dogs and um showing me the ropes. But generally in a in a normal year, I don't have a lot of time at home between touring to do it. So you know, last year I got out twice, I think, and um, this year is definitely looking a lot better for that. Does uh do Yanni's coon dog training stories speak to you as a as a person born in Germany? Or is the American as American as American who appreciates a good hunting dog? Uh? You know watching those dogs work in a in a pheasant uh? And a pheasant hunt was was you know obviously I've never seen that before and it was really one of my favorite parts. You know, I wouldn't say I'm in the market, but I'm leaning that way. Do you know the I was in a man I was gonna tie you something there as I'm not supposed to tell it. No, I can tell you. I don't see why you can't. I have I have a way I can tell it. Okay, I have reason to believe that our show, our TV the TV show, UM, it's highest viewer per that the highest viewer per Capital we get is in our own state. Okay, it's not surprising. I don't think so. Maggie's a big fan of Ears. Is it because she's from Minnesota? Well, it probably doesn't, ask I'm asking Meg. I turned my attention, I turned my I turned my gaze. I turned my gaze slightly, right, right, Yeah, I think so. I mean that was my first exposure. Right, So is it like it's not like State Pride because these guys are international, or is it? I think it's become State Pride for sure. So you associate, of course. I mean you sing a lot about Minnesota and there's a lot of things in there that I don't know speak to me. How long have you been a fan? I think I found you guys and my senior year of high school going into college. That makes me feel so you want to put a year on that, Like how did it come to be? Like? How did it come to beat? You saw him play? No, I had a really good friend that was a huge, huge fan. He's gonna be jealous, set him hang out with you and fish and stuff, But yeah, he introduced me to the music and then yeah, I just fell in love. And then we saw the first time I saw you was on the shores of Lake Superior Atmosphere opened another Minnesota ban Yeah, and then it was trampled when it is a fun mix of rap fans. And then what year was that? That was? What was that? I graduated college st I think fourteen, Yeah, yeah, somewhere around there. Um, do you hate as a musician? Do you hate Spotify? No? No, I mean it's kind of a complicated relationship. That's how that's how I became a fan of Ears. Really, it was just served to me on. It was served to me on just like the Discover weekly function. That's the thing is that it's it's so great for exposure that's hard to really be mad at him. You know there's right now, what's really being highlighted, at least in my world, is the lack of you know what a lot of people consider adequate payment for what they do to the to the musicians and to the songwriters. But um, it's just how people it's I mean, I listened to it all the time, you know, That's how I listen to music now. And I think in for for somebody who bases their u income on touring, it's a really helpful tool because it's that's so many more people would hear your music than would have if they had to go to a store and buy a record or a CD. You know, like how often do you take a chance on something you've never heard of? In that way? But now that touring is gone, Uh, there is a lot of people kind of bringing up the fact that they don't. They say that they seem to make a lot of money by paying musicians very little. But I don't know. It's it's one of those things. That's it's the way it is now, and it's a hard thing to change. It's hard to add a company to say, Okay, we'll make less money and pay you better when they don't really have to. There's nothing forcing them to do that. Um. You O. Man was in the military. He was, yeah, was he tripped off? He became a musician. Did you want to be a military It was actually very supportive. He didn't know. He actually specifically told me he didn't want me to do that, not that it was up to him, you know, but he he Uh, he was active for I don't know, most of my childhood. He was an officer. He wasn't in counterintelligence, so he would be gone for I remember one year, I think I was three years something, he lived in Korea for a whole entire year and he got kind of sick of that life, so went in the reserves for a while. And then I mean, that's why I was born in Germany, right, because he was stationed there for a bit um and then got out. And uh no, I don't think he totally enjoyed his experience there, so it never really he never promoted it anyway, so he was fine to see you become a musician. Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm sure everybody a little concerned at first when when you know, I didn't know what the hell I was gonna do. But I tried to go to college for a year and that didn't work out, and then started playing in bands. And I was living in Duluth, Minnesota at the time, and realized that's what I mean, as that's all I could think about doing. I couldn't think about another job or another career that sounded good to me at the time. So I decided to go for it. And no, but I had I definitely had the support of my family. I'm sure they were worried about it, but none of them ever had any money either. So when uh, when you're growing up trying to not grown up, but trying to break into become a musician. This all happened in Minnesota. Yeah, I mean I started playing there, but it didn't really become a full time opportunity for me until we started touring around. So I wouldn't have been able to just you know, quit my other job like I was able to if we would have just stayed and playing there. Um, But it was definitely the long way to do it. I mean, we just started touring on our own. We had no infrastructure and no booking age and nothing. We just call people and I beg for work pretty much, and you know, go to a town and there'll be five people there and hopefully six months later when it came back, there'll be twenty people. And um, eventually got to the point where we could sustain it. Karnce sent me an article that was I think in this article you had said something the effect of and in the music scene and delu with like people would already people would start to resent you if you could get to a position where you could charge a three dollar cover charge. They were already mad. They're rock and roll, rock and roll kind of punky, you know, do it yourself. Absolutely. Oh man. The first time we did charge charge a cover it was you know, I mean this is a small scale uh incident, but we got so much, so much slack for it that. But there's part of that that I really love about that place where it's it's uh, at least in the music scene in Duluth what I from what I remember and from what I assume still goes on, UM has that mentality that you have to be this you know, art for art's sake kind of creator, which UM a lot of places don't and a lot of spaces in working in music is is just so far apart from that that I like that there's that little pocket where it's like it's kind of like that, you know, everybody, everybody brings their own sound gear to the show, everybody makes their own flyers, everybody does their their own thing like that, and it's it's cool. What is the did you write? Winners? Like I've listened to this long ago, thousand times, but like I kind of understand what it's about, but I don't understand what it's about. Yeah, is it about what we're talking about? Yeah? Yeah, that's that's a pretty pretty accurate I think. I you know, I was talking to Sam about this on the on the River yesterday where we were talking about songwriting, and for me, I I've I've always had a hard time thinking of a specific concept in writing a song, you know, literally about it, And for me, I feel like it works more where I when I write, it's just kind of distilling maybe a you know, a certain time period of experience and this thing that um and then maybe make the connection of the reason behind it after the fact a little bit. And so sometimes songs are you know, maybe one versus referencing one period of time and another uh different. But for that song in particular, that was pretty specifically about the right time living in Bluth because you stay in there and you know how we feel about winners. Yeah, but there's a lot there's parts I don't understand loving. It's a loving But why does this say like nothing in the but a hammer, nothing in the cabin? What is it nothing but a hammer and a saw? Oh? You know it rhymed with the other and nail and a nail to drive it home. Uh. Well, you know there was a part in that song where I talked about sleeping on a couch, which I was. I was living on my friend's couch for this little period time. But you weren't study in law. That says you were. Were you trying? Were you lying to impress your most difference between the difference between lying and not telling the truth. No, Joey, I wouldn't hold you too. That's something to be trying to impress your mom. Your mom would hear that song and she'd like, I didn't know he was studying law. I was working real hard at that. You gotta throw in health insurance under steady health insurance. There's nothing more rock and roll than health insurance to the steady. I got a good question for you on can we just on the topic cover charges? Yeah, but can you weaven your question my question cause I'm still not satisfied with the answer. Please go ahead then, But what's it about? Nothing? I don't care to show about. I know what it's about. I know what it's about in my heart. That's what I'd like to hear. But was there a thing you said? You sat down, he said, damn it, I'm gonna write a song about No. Okay, No, I didn't. I never write songs on purpose anyway that it's just uh, it's kind of an abstract process for me. But it was a lot you know, once that one started to take form, I realized it wasn't really about this like early twenties of my life living in that town and and deciding that I wanted to to, uh, you know, make a go at playing music for my career. I guess if you want to call it that, and um and just some instances from that time that's stuck out, you know, if that's maybe about as specific as I can get. No, that's great, Okay, Like I said, I know what, I know what it's about my heart say that, well, that's the goal there, and it's it's like it's that it's that. Um, there's a lot of uncertain you know. Do you ever listen to the band Arcade Fire Like I like those guys. Yeah. Um, I don't know that I agree. I probably wouldn't agree with him on politically at all, but I like them and I feel that they have When I'm trying to describe what I like about them, is I feel that they are um like this sort of infectious. It's like exhilaration, but with changed with some very serious apprehension and the Winner's tune like has a lot to do with like being uncertain at an uncertain part of your life in a in a town, in a town that's aware of itself. Yeah, and looking back at it from about fifteen years later too, you know, because that was some harrowing ship what you're seeing in your twenties, man, you're late twenties and harrowing. Yeah. It was also some of the best times in my life in a really exciting way. When we started to tour, you know, the four of us in a van, and I had really not traveled much outside of the Midwest at all, and so coming to see the mountains for the first time and see the ocean for the first time and all of that. I mean, every day it's it's long and boring a lot of the times, but it was also this kind of in retrospect and through romantic lands. Now is this kind of grand adventure that I was able to have. At that time, we were sleeping on people's floors, there was no internet, so it's still like this mysterious process, you know, um and play music with. Some of my best friends are still some of my best friends. So it was pretty great. Go I feel like you have kind of tiptoed around I think one of your favorite arguments, which is Okay from Muskogee. Alright, it's like, what what did you What did you mean when you wrote Oki from Muskogee? What were you trying to say? There's been some some drama over that hasn't exactly Oh tell me more. Rue. Half of the country's like it is a conservative theme something. Yeah, it's just it just rhymed, man, Just you know that. No, it's like, we don't smoke marijuana. I think it was from a dude who smoked a lot of from his from what I've lived on a houseboat and lived on a houseboat in Lake Shasta. But I thought he was kind of making tongue in cheek in it a little bit. How many people have screwed up? How many people have screwed up that Springsteen is born in the USA? Yes, lived on a houseboat Lake Shasta. Um, yeah, it's born in the USA. That anti Vietnam song, yeah, you know Vietnam war song. He's like, but wait a minute, that's the song is like saying, like, oh but wait a minute, man, I was born in the USA. It's not souls to happen. Well, maybe that goes back to U. You know what it means in your heart? You know, I like as a songwriter, and um, that's what hits me about songs that I love is the fact that I can relate something and that like I get a feeling that I understand what's happening in there um of the song. And a lot of times it's man that that person went through this experience and they wrote about it in this way, uh that I would never think of doing. And that's you know, like Bob Dylan's Bow in my mind that way so many times, and some a lot of other writers. But to have somebody kind of take their own narrative and their own understand ending of a song and leave it at that, that's my favorite. If they're you know, sometimes when you find out what a certain line is actually about, it's kind of a letdown. I don't know if this is true. I've I've heard, I feel like from my brother let's be a good one for Spencer's fact checker. I heard that Sammy Hagar once said that his lyrics came from misunderstanding other people's lyrics. And then when you find out what they're actually saying. You're like, oh, ship, that's not what I thought it was. I'm going to write a song with what I thought it was in it it's even better. Yeah, but I don't know what he was listening to that made him think of I can't drive fifty five? Like what song did he think they were saying? I can't drive fifty five? Yeah, he's just got really bad hearing or something. But I'll tell you, I'll give you a hot tip if you want a good line for a song. It's what I used to think they're saying in a you tube and a U two song. I used think there's a U two song where he said the line a few broken bones and some loose change. It's not what he's saying. What song is? I don't know what that carry the cross exactly. You should write a song with the line and a few broken bones and some loose change, because that's rich. That's pretty good. You never had anything propproaching that, So I gotta give you like a producer credit. Yeah, I don't. I don't see you writing that down day. If we can wait, it's all up here. It's a few broken bones of the image that sets. Yeah, it's dark. Yeah, I like it. I do. I like your kind of origin story, your line of Um, you know, I didn't didn't sort of matter if there was money in it because nobody else in the family had money anyway. And like there's more pressure on kids too, Yeah, earn a high level of income if it if their parents are doing it all. You mean you meant family. You mean like in your like you didn't come like you grew up not wealthy. Yeah, right, yeah, I think he meant family like family musicians. There's a great um, great line from just Todd Schneider, favorite singer songwriter and Doug Gloves. When I close I don't know what Todd Snider looks like. When I close my eyes, I see Dug during Todd Schneider is a long haired, leaping gnome like he is just this lanky, looks like he could walk forever. But I don't get the impression he does. So he doesn't look like like Doug. During's built basically like big foot, shave shave a lot of weight and keep the height. Yeah, but he's got this line. It says, uh, having nothing is almost like having it all, And I just find it very fitting a lot of times. Yeah, it's like, well I don't have anything to lose, so why not try? Or it's I could see that as um kind of a simple life metaphor, right Like I look back, for instance, at the time we were just talking about in my life when there was there was no money, there wasn't a house, or kids are all all the stuff wonderful and otherwise that's comes since then, But it's an easier way. It's probably easier on your head that way too. You know we touched on when we were talking about sleeping in the back of the truck yesterday. It's like it's just simple and because of the simplicity, it gets you out more where it gets you going more. And I know it's fun to sit around romanticize and being broke, and like there's a lot of good stuff that comes out of being broke. And that was broke a long time, like broke to the point where you were defitely afraid to go into the hospital, right Like I remember waking up one time with paramedics standing over me. And I woke up with paramedics standing over me and ran off into the night, the only thing in my mind being this isn't gonna be cheap. That's the yeah, man, we laughed, but that's so. But like my dad had a quote he liked. I think he made it up. He said, I've been rich and I've been poor. It's better being rich. That's the thing now is I wouldn't I wouldn't choose to go back right now. I think if it happens at the right time of your life, there might be some lessons learned in there. I think everybody maybe would probably benefit for at least one year of poverty in their life. But I don't think poverty counts. Like I don't think that people who don't have children should be allowed to use the word poverty. It's not it's just something different. It's like broke, like you're broke. Yeah, But some people never even get that because I lived many years like below the federal poverty limit. But I would never as a magazine writer, I would never have described myself because because a lot of its self inflicted. You're not unless you're worried about feeding your kids or it's like it's like mostly self inflicted. It's like you also drink all the time, and you also like are always like doing like a two weeks backpacking trips hunting in Alaska. So it's like it just doesn't jibe with poverty, like you just don't have any money because you have to have chosen not to write. But it is different, kids, it's different. Then I'm like, okay, unleashed the word. I gotta tell you my cover cover story. It's not really a scam because I felt like it was very beneficial. But growing up in Missoula, there's always a lot of music around, and um uh, we also chose not to have a lot of money at that point, and um so what I would do is that go up to you know, typically at somebody in the band or of the band is sitting there working the door on the on the cover side of things like taking cash, and so I would figure out if the cover was going to the house or getting split by the house, and if it would be better off for the band in their best interest to sneak in if we bought like two T shirts. We'd figure out something. Right, it would be like what is the band getting And then I'd be like, cool, I'm gonna have five people here, We're gonna buy two T shirts. You put five people on the on the guest list and they'd be like done half the time. It's amazing. Yeah, it was great. Yeah, I would have said yesterday. Yeah, I mean, do you think those people a lot of thought put into that. It's really sweet, appreciate it could have been thinking about just making honest living and forking over my three bucks, but instead, well, that's that's amazing. Yeah, that's kind of that's a it's a heartwarming tale. Ye. How does that does that work for you? Because it would still work probably good because I kept thinking about that and I was like, oh man, could I just ask on that note, what is the best way to support artists musicians right now? Is it merch? Is it physical media? Like boy? That is a great question. Uh, yeah, it's it's merch, really physical me he included. But most most artists out there have a website, and most of those websites have a store, and so every little every T shirt or or stick or a record or whatever you buy off there, it all helps. Did you like that band Typhoon? I don't know the band tai foond Uh. They had a T shirt that I really want and it's out of stock and I always try to go buy it and I can never buy Itty bucks Man. I can't get one. I'm half about ready to write him in and see if I can buy his trying to check up the price. You the Bandtai Foon, How can you up your alley man? Yeah, I'll check him out. Tod Schneider's got a sticker that says Todd Schneider rules, and it hasn't been in stock for like five years. I keep checking. You know, my older brother, my older brother, Uh, he doesn't like bluegrass, and you guys have a strong bluegrass influence. You know what. His criticism of bluegrass is that it has too many notes. I agree with that. I feel like I listened to Level. Yeah there's a lot of notes. Yeah, I do think that, and you think that, Yeah, I do. I'm definitely more of uh like I feel like maybe it's because I'm just I've never been like schooled in my instrument or whatever, but um, I prefer a bit more space and and uh maybe more well placed notes than more notes, just for having more notes, if that makes sense. Do you know the musician Robert O'Keane, Yeah, I do his song blue Grass Whittle, where he made a bluegrass song by stringing together all the titles of bluegrass songs. That's a great bluegrass do you we're just trampled by turtle sit in like the bluegrass genre because it, I would imagine your guys style is probably like pooh pooed by some people in the bluegrass scenes, like oh, there's too much electric electric stuff for there's two it's too fast, or it's too much on the rock and roll spect it absolutely is yeah to get piste because you guys win Best Bluegrass Album and it's really not. I mean, I don't care what people call this band, right, if you want to call him, if we want calls bluegrass or not, I don't care. It doesn't matter. But to a lot of people, the word bluegrass is is very holy and specific thing, and it's in that circle. UM, and I got a lot of friends in that. We do a lot of festivals in that world, and um a lot of friends playing the bands in that world. But and it's not even the musicians themselves. It's like the fans and they have this thing where um, there's very tight parameters and it's very rule based kind of songs and um, and it's really heavily focused on you know, incredible technical skill. Um, and that's I don't that's not really my vibe, vibe and anything. Musically, I don't really care how great somebody is at their instrument if they can't play something that really invokes some kind of emotional reaction or you know. Um. But so I think yeah, and that in that traditional bluegrass world, I think a lot of them wouldn't even consider us a part of it, which is fine, you know, and we we dabble in it. Sometimes we're lucky enough for we can go we'll play a blue grass festival, like a bluegrass festival, you know, an Appalachia or something. But then we're also able to play other things like you know, we play Coachella and like rocky ear things as well, which I'd much rather be in that kind of muddy water than than have to clearly define, um, something that but it's very nature should grow and change as it as it goes along. I think it seems like to some bluegrass fans it's almost like bourbon, where if it didn't come from Kentucky, it doesn't matter. You know. Living in Missoula for a long time, there's a lot of people are really snobby about bluegrass and yeah, it's it's funny. It's funny to see how things get defined and I legitimized sometimes when music. Mostly that's none of the musicians that I know, even in the traditional bluegrass world, really share any of that perspective. It's people that have this thing that they believe is there's which is fine. They're allowed to have it, you know, and they're allowed to like whatever they like. But to ask, you know, to to like expect a band because they have a banjo in it to do this way this thing a certain way, excuse me. To me is is just kind of silly, you know, to have rules about who gets to have a banjo, yeah, or how they're supposed to play it. You know, like our banjo player for instances this is maybe too far into this whole, but plays with a like a guitar pick, which I mean is simple enough. He just learned how to play it that way and he's really good at it that way. Um. But in for instance, like in the blue grass community, that's super taboo to do that, which we didn't know when we started. We were in Duluth, you know, like there's no grass there and we were like trying we were trying to pretend we were from Appalachia anything. We're just writing our own songs and using those instruments, you know. And so we'd show up to play and he would get so much ship for that pick that it was like, what is this? The traditionalists use fingers or fingers like fingerpicks, so it's even even the the distinction between a piece of metal on your finger a piece of plastic in your fingers is enough. So I was, you know, honestly turned off by that pretty early on, and and I have softened my view on it a bit now, have gotten older, But I love some of the music, you know. Um, I just added, like finding a place for rules in in any kind of creative pursuit. It just seems counterintuitive to me, the abundance of notes notwithstanding abundance, and uh, what bluegrass manages to do though, is it? It's it's earthy. Yeah, it's like the traditional bluegrass music is sort of born of the earth, the old stuff like feels it's very honest. Yeah, I think that pop top forty pop country, whatever you call modern country, top top forty country, um fanes and earthiness. I agree with that. An old country too, you know, a country from the fifties or whatever. Those are people that lived in the country and wrote about their experience. That's the smells of alcohol and that same thing about the early bluegrass people. They were living in those halls and mining and they were writing songs about that and it felt like from the earth, you know, like what you said, which I really like it, like it grew out of the dirt, and it's it's a later interpretation or imitation of that. I think it has kind of less substance maybe, do you uh, you grew up around like hanging around outside at least if you weren't into the real dark arts of what was your you know, what was your exposure to nature? Well, my my dad and I, uh would you would camp a lot? And you know for one thing. But um, in Minnesota, there's this great lake culture, right and every not everybody obviously I don't, but a lot of people, especially back when I was a kid, when it was a little more affordable to do it, have cabins on lakes and this is pretty like right and a middle class thing that people were able to do without um needing. Now now it's a little harder to buy a place like that. But anyway, my grandparents had one, so I would, you know, grew up fishing on lakes since I can hold a rod really, And then later in my teenage years, my dad and I kind of got into backpack camping up in the Spirit National Forest and um hiking on the Spirit Hiking Trail on that kind of stuff, up and up and dooring the Minnesota, and then ice fishing as well, which I haven't done for a while now. You grew up around the ice hole a little bit. Do you feel that, um, do you feel that the natural world like like give something to music or do you think it's just totally separate. I don't think it can be separate at all. I don't. Maybe it depends on the music or the person making the music, because you know, there's a lot of people in music who don't spend a lot of time doing any of that. Um, But for me, yeah, absolutely, I just it's always just been the just the outdoors. And it's such a broad thing, I notice say, but it's always just been where I've gone, you know, whenever I have the opportunity to go somewhere, or the the need to get out of town or whatever, it's always you know, in a tent or the truck or now it's out in the field. Um, and it's kind of where I recharged my batteries. It always has been. It's interesting. I mean, you just point out this thing, like you don't need nature to make music. I do. Yeah. No, I'm just say, yeah, I agree. You know what you're pointing out. One does not, because that's like a little bit of a conundrum. Um where uh even like in raising kids, I you know, I would argue that I think it does kids good to have a very ah extreme version of a relationship to nature. But I see people raise really wonderful, loving general as kids in the middle of giant cities, right, who could give a rat's ass about nature? So I'm like, okay, I find it helpful. Is it the way to do it? It's one way to do it, you know your kids? Yeah, it is right, right, and those kids would probably be able to they could grow up anywhere and be fine. Like you said, but maybe that's your way of of showing whatever that thing is that you want to show your kids. Your way of doing it is out there. Yeah, I don't have another method, right, And somebody is like growing up in Paris or something. Their way of doing it has to be different. You know, I'm the same. I have two kids, have a nine year old daughter and a seven year old son, and my favorite times with them have been outside. You know, they both we've been fishing now. Um, they love the camp and it's where it's kind of where everything makes sense to both of us. Maybe that's where, like the Van Diagram crosses, that's a good point where where we are and there They're still young enough where we get along all the time really, but I'm hoping that trans it's into their teenage years where like for me when my when when I was sixteen or seventeen and I wanted nothing to do with my parents, I would still love to go camping with my dad and that was the time when we would actually talk and actually spend time together on a more of a level playing field. Maybe can you think of a actual sort of moment or an actual way or a song or something where an experience outdoors, like you know, was manifested somehow on the thing you made. Or is it all this background? That's a good question. No, I do think um it is I would say mostly background. But I think that you know, I definitely have like lines or references to it all over the place. Um But I think a lot of when I'm thinking about writing a song and I'm working on and I'm missing a line here or something like that, a lot of the times, like references in some way to the outdoors is kind of first thing that comes up, you know, like describing how the light is or how it sounds, or just things that you're a little more hyper aware of when you're outside, you know. Um. On my I put a solo record out in March, and I think I noticed more of that stuff a little bit more on the forefront and some of those songs. But I've also been so much more focused on on being in the outdoors now. I mean, for so long with touring full time, I let it. I had let a lot of that stuff go for maybe ten years. I didn't spend a lot of time out in the woods or um on the water or whatever. And it's really in the last three or four years has really been coming back to me, really like more powerfully than it really ever has in my life. So I think the references to that are getting a little more literal in there, you know. I was plugging that band Typhoon. There's a song it's called I think it's called the Lake. If you listen to it real careful, it's the like there's a there's are like this Chris the Lean moment in it where it's fourth of July and the singer and his sister are planned and she's trying to make a loon sound and they go down to a lake shore and he doesn't realize it, but he says a different bug must have bit my leg, but I never saw it. And it's about lime disease. You'd never know unless you listened to it like a kazillion times. It's about lime disease, but he never says lime disease in it, different bug must have been It sounds like they're they're from there in Oregon, but he talks about but there's like nature references, you know, It's like it's like real nature references that you wouldn't know if you didn't spend time in nature. And I think when I was talking about Top forty country, it's like I sometimes don't buy the references. It'd be like, you know, it's almost like you know when you watch really if you watch really bad, you know, like bad writers and they're trying to imagine like what a redneck family is like they'd be like, oh, um, have them fix something with duct tape? They like that, right, what rhymes with duct tape? And they're like, or you know a thing they do is, um, you know, have like a uh real strict violent parenting style. They like that, right, you know what I'm saying. But people like they don't know what they're talking about, Like they don't know. And I was watching the showing that long ago, and they had a scene where there was supposed to be some carpenters carpenters working, and you can tell that the writer, nor the director, nor anyone on that set had ever seen a carpenter work in the life. There's a whole room of people building a house. Not one of them was doing anything you would do in the process of building out. They had no idea. And I think there's this thing in top forty country where it's like they're like, oh, yeah, you'd have a truck, and I feel like you'd you'd it up your girlfriend, I imagine, and take her to the river in the truck. It seems like a thing they would enjoy. Yeah, And it's likely do you really know this, like, do you know this or do you feel that this is a thing in that world? To a lot of the most I would say, and not having any statistics in front of me, but most of those songs are written in office buildings by other people. There's like songwriting shops. People go nine to five it and write songs based on record sales and what they what somebody is telling them it's sells really well. I remember a couple of years ago somebody had put a video together of I think it was it was like nine of the top ten country songs at that moment and found almost the exact same line and every single one and cut it together so different artists all had the same basic chorus and the same basic because at that point that you know, somebody knew that that connecting with that in somebody's with sales records, And I think what you're saying is right. It's a lot of the like just let's just list off things they like or they're supposed to like. But what I like about it is it's like, of all the music right now, it's the music that's most references. It's the music that most references nature like references agriculture, right, it references labor in the outdoor, Like there's all these things that kind of like, but the delivery always feels like a little too because I like that as well. I wish there was more of that other stuff for it. Maybe because in raw like in like nickelback whatever, they're not. I don't know if they do they reference agriculture quickly. I don't know, Man, there's that is I mean, that's country music. It's supposed to be in the country, right, It's supposed to come from out of town people that live and and where it can grow up away from the city. But in reality, most of it comes from downtown Nashville, you know, Yeah, and from people that live in Nashville and don't farm, you know, So that's where it came from. Analysis Now, it's a style that you kind of sculpt yourself to fit, you know. Some of it starts to feel like a caricature of the rural lifestyle. I mean, there's the old joke like you play a country song backwards and you get the farm back, and you get your dog back and your truck back and your girlfriend back. But yeah, that that's why I like stuff like you guys do. It just feels a lot more, a lot more authentic and until people actually actually get out and get out and do it, it's not just based on demographics. I will say, when we started, you know, this band started as a as a as a side project. We're all playing in rock bands. I've never played in anything acoustic based, or folk music or blue grass or whatever. Um I mean I started. My first band was a punk band and was name of a Simple Junction. Simple Junction. Yeah. Obviously, band names aren't my strong suits. My same brother that doesn't like blue grass, he has a hobby where he just comes up with great names. A great great repeat offender. That's a cover band, Yeah, Steve, we did this in post production. Carl HANSI and I have a list of band names of ever when it counts Ginger Snapper, that means bands that play like like the VFW on Tuesday Nights or something that. Um. But when I was doing that, we when we started this band, it was just as something to explore. We all Simple Junction. Yeah, what does that even mean? You know, there's no proof that it ever existed. I don't think either, which is one of the nice things about being at age before Spotify or before YouTube, before anything. But we were a copy and stuff, you know, like I've never played a blue rass song before. Our mandolin player just bought a mandolin at a garage sale and we're like, well and I've never even heard the music before. So we at that time, right at the end of the time where you do this, we found music, We found like CDs of bluegrass music, and we started. We learned a few songs. It was just this kind of fun thing we did maybe once a month at a little bar um because there was nothing like that in Duluth, you know that we knew of anyway. Um, So we started. And then I think anytime you like do that at the first the first um, at least for me, I should say, the first thing you do is kind of copy somebody else. You know. When I started writing songs, I wanted to be Bob Dylan or something, you know, like right like that and then maybe use the same core structure and make it sound like it, maybe even outright steal stuff. Um. And we would do that with Tramplet. And then when we decided we got a little bit older and decided that we wanted this was going to be our band. Then we tried to go reel that back and you know, make our own music just with these instruments instead of the ones that we were used to. The mimicry thing that you're mentioning, like, I like how you're almost like mad or of fact about it. I think everybody does it. Yeah, I agree, and watching uh, when I was going through school and watching so many aspiring writers, um learn their learn their groove. Everybody's trying to copy someone. The good writers are just people like everyone tries to copy and no one can get it right. The good ones are just that they're facts simile. That the facts simile they're trying to produce is misses the mark but hits something interesting. It'd be like you're like shooting at like a buck, you know, like a forky and you miss it, but hit like a booner and then you go there. You're like, yeah, yeah, that's why I meant to do that whole time. Yeah, So I was like, oh, I'm gonna I was like, I was like, I'm gonna be like John McPhee and Ian Fraser. That's all right. Yeah, Well, I think Joan Didion tossed in right, and right anything like any of those people. Right, but you gotta I think everybody in any creative field starts with that because you all the reason you do it, because this stuff has had such an effect on you. You know, at least for me, I wanted to play music because that was the most important thing in my life. That's the thing that had made me uh you know, it had changed my life by listening to it. And so there's no other way to start, I don't think, rather rather than copying somebody else, and then eventually I think you kind of mixed all those little influences in and find your own style. So you did as a writer as well, and then it becomes your thing. And I think that every artist is just their distillation of all that stuff that's in them, all those experiences, all the people they read or listened to, and it boils down into this, you know, a little goog that's just their own thing. Um, it's very continuous, I think. So Trampled by Turtles was was coming on the scene, like uh as I had kind of made another life transition to like guiding, um, like white water and fly fishing outside a Glacier National Park, right and like national parks. You get a bunch of people from all over the country and all over the world to come in and work, and then plus the visitors and everything, and um, this was as a lot of outfits are. There's kind of like a communal living situation too with with guides and uh. And then there's all the park employees and stuff that are in the the exact same thing. So you get exposed to a lot of music. Um. And then certain music like really takes off right, and everybody's listening to the same thing, right, And so Trampled by Turtles had this amazing run um in these circles and you could hear tramped by Turtles all the time. And I'm I'm always the guy who's like, who who sings that? Hey? Who sings that? Again? Um. I just thought like when you start thinking about legacies, where you can have this thing that exists and means like polar can have salute opposite meaning too, like the same groups of people where um, you have a bunch of young folks out for the first time away from mom and dad. Um, there's a lot of partying going on. Uh. People are drinking too much. They got a lot of freedom. Uh, there's a lot of sex going on, there's drugs, there's uh just listening to Trampled by Turtles and uh like your legacy of writing, you have produced this, this content that means the entire emotional spectrum to people where it's like I broke up to this song, I fell in love to this song. I made a child to this song. You know. Uh, that's well, yeah, I don't know what to say to that, but that's great, you know, I hope so I guess, but um, I I guess I have that from music for me, and you know that's why I get attached to some stuff as well. But if you ever run into somebody who's like, I'm gonna punch that Davis right in my head next my girlfriend, that's happened. I did, we did. I did have a guy jump on stage in Seattle once and choked me while I was playing. Um but I don't know if that was what was this problem. I don't know. I never found out. You didn't get the context. No, I didn't. I really. The first thing I came to my mind too, was like, why why did you choose? Now? Help me understand that? Uh? No, I never taught I never saw him again. If you're out there, shoot me an email in the music world. Is it ye? You just adjusted your mike? Were you fixing to say something? I got a question back and ask it's not please don't maybe beg for it? What's up? Do you have a guess at how many shows you've played? No, I don't know. I mean annually during your busiest times, do you? I do know that, I mean during our busiest couple of years, which is probably uh, two thousand ten or two thousand and twelve maybe something like that, Um, about a hundred and fifty hundred sixty a year, and now we're at a pretty solid like seventy maybe, which still feels really busy. I don't know when we fit all the other ones in, but we were just kind of on the road all the time. That was before I had kids. You know, another guy in our band's got a couple of kids. And uh, definitely the urge to be home the older I get, the urged to be home is a lot stronger. Um. What's the drug scene like in bluegrass music with the with the old guys? Are they like alcoholics or what are they like the old guys? The old classic blue grass. A lot of those guys are they in the pharmaceuticals and stuff, you know, the ones that are so alive you're talking about like the legit blue like those guys around you know, don't I can. Dell mccourry is probably the only person from that period of time we actually played in like some of the original bluegrass bands. And he's eighty two or something like that. He's he's a wonderful man and who has had us play with his band before. He throws a great festival in Maryland from what I've seen him, And I mean his kids are his band. You know, it's a real traditional thing, um. And they're really great. Um. But I you know, pretty at least on the outside, pretty stand up, church going, you know, we mom's here, put the beer away kind of kind of crowd. Because you've got that song about codine. Yeah, well I didn't grow up in that crowd. You know. It's like a country song about code. There's drugs, That's finally an easy question. There's there's drugs in every scene, I mean and every you know, probably every office you go into. I don't think that's that's just a music thing anymore. So, Yeah, when in the music world when you get like, oh, you know, you getting interested in hunting. I don't want to go hunting, do you? Was there a temptation to be closeted about it because get in trouble. No, not at all. I I I've actually really enjoyed that conversation. But I will say that mine, it might be a little different if I was you know, I don't know, maybe if you've more urban band, you know, like we have a lot of pretty out outdoor active That's probably not the right way to say that, but people fans who are active in the outdoors. So I don't think it was a huge leap for for me to start talking publicly about hunting, right, Um, there's Oh, it wasn't totally unexpected. Yeah, it wasn't like what you know, Um, but yeah, in the music world, that's not I wouldn't say my experience in the music it's not very common activity for people to do. So it's been interesting conversations I've had with other musicians from from bands you know, much different than ours, And honestly, most of the response that I've gotten is curiosity and a lot of people, a lot of people want to give it a shot. I want to try it out. UM. I mean I've kind of gotten a few a few friends that are going to come out this year, UM that had never done it, or families have never done it, you know, they've maybe never even slept in a tent kind of kind of friends, you know. But when I talked about the activity to them, UM, I mean, you guys know more than anybody probably the different conceptions of hunting that exists in the public eye, right, and which is something I'm new to. But I had my own preconceptions about it before and now that I've done it. What was what? What was that? Um? I was definitely on the side of things that that saw it as UM. You know, I mean, you know, kind of like this red nicky activity chasing raccoons all around, driving raccoons. I was right, you know, uh no, But you know, I don't think I was never like anti hunting or whatever. I have uncle's not on family member that hunt and you know whatever, it's great, but it wasn't something that I was interested in until I had the offer to go, and so I took that. But there must have been that can't be it. It can't be like you never thought about it. Had no interest, but then got invited to go and went, yeah pretty much. Yeah, it never really covered you. It never really crossed my mind, you know, And until I started talking to Bob uh Saint Pierre, and you know, he brought it up, said he started to like his radio show. Oh yeah, I listen to it all the time. So then I caught you know why, I don't know if that's a lie. You must have been interested. Why the hell are you listening to the show good radio And it's a lot of it's a lot of fishing talk. And yet because you liked fishing and you have a fishing hunting or like very close because they are really close. Because um, but I don't know, man, there's like a rule I made, I didn't name it. Everyone who traps knows how to hunting fish, everyone who hunts knows how to fish. Everyone who fishes. I don't know what they know how to? Do? You know what I'm saying? Yeah I do. So they're they're like you were going to Oh you were not. You weren't going like down the ladder, You're going like up the ladder. Sure, Uh yeah, I'd say that. I mean, it doesn't need to listen to a morning show because you like the fish talk. Also, I also, honestly I like the outdoors talk. These guys are very um, you know, they this was my first experience with people that are that are hunters, right, and when they talk about hunting, they talk about the walk and the dogs and the weather and like the um, maybe a bit more of the romantic side of it that I had never really had a exposure too before. And it resonated with me because that's the same A lot of the stuff they were talking about is a lot of the things that I felt when I was taking a walk or whatever, but without the same goal in mine and um, they were really just you know, there's kind of the steward of the land conservationists perspective of hunting, um. And then the part of getting your own food, which I I mean, obviously I knew that's what happened when you hunt, but I've never really made that connection of how nice it would be to do that, um, even though I fished and it fish, you know, but um, maybe an extension of that or something. So I mean, when that's the stuff to me that drew me in when I started, when I went that first time, you know, I was out with this group of guys who had spend their whole lives doing this um and then I got to see it from their perspective, which then it just made sense to me. It to make complete sense to me once I did it, you know. And it was also fun as hell it when it's popped up out of that I've never experienced anything like that before, you know. It wasn't like anything I had done. When a when a pheasant jumped up out of the cover that a dog had just pointed and I saw that, you know, the first guy shoot one. It's like this, I'm in. This is so great. Wait till you see your coon. Dog doesn't get any better? Have a heart comes screaming out of there. Boy, I get some blood pumping. I have a heart. Yeah. Well it's you know, I'm room to explore. Now. It's just a year of a couple of years of first right now, it's just been pretty great. And you went woodcock hunting. I did, well, we were gross hunting, but they were legal at the same time and in the same wood. So and did you find some Yeah, that's something I'm I'm real interested. Yeah, I want to want to find some yeah that, you know, I've been pheasant hunting twice. And then I went in the gross woods and I was I thought, it was like, there's no way in hell I'm going to shoot something in these trees except trees. You know, like watching the bird fly up in that cover is so thick. Um. Well, when you do shoot, it looks like you hit a bunch of trees. Yeah, that's all. It was like, I definitely have shot a lot of trees now, but I was able to get a couple of growls in a couple of ocock. Really, yeah, you're like proficient. Well I don't know about that, but rough growls is not I mean, anybody can I should say anybody all rough growls, But hitting two rough growls is good. Thanks. I I uh, it took me maybe, and it always is right And the only time I've ever seen him come up and then right in front, and then you know somebody who didn't. I'm still in that phase right where walking through the woods and lifting a gun to my shoulder and getting all that stuff right is brand new even you know, so I still I still a lot of its conscious movement for me still. So it's you know, I'm a little behind the behind the jump on that. But I also don't want to to shoot my buddy, you know. So I'm still like a conscious gun safety mode as well, because I've just I mean, I took my gun safety Minnesota gun safety course while I was on tour, uh you know, in green room, So I was on the computer doing my gun safety course. So it's pretty brand new for those who want to know what happens in the green room. Doesn't get any more room Simon is taking his online go and see. I like that you just switch it to Simon. Well that's what I feel like it ought to be. Yeah, can we return something real quick. There's two things I didn't get you up top that I want to still touch on. Because you're talking about listening to the radio in Minnesota made me think of this. Uh you you found out why I don't like car talk already know why I don't like card talk. I'm still curious, uh refreshes and why you don't like card talk because us they the screen people, and then they have people on um in order to like express these old manny um sentiments about what they're doing. So i'd be like I was in My boyfriend was driving my boyfriend's car, right, your boyfriend's car and it just goes on or not yeah, which we did a pull I think last time we podcasted, and not. No, I didn't have anybody on my team either they hadn't heard of it or nobody was in it. You love it, but you're from Minnesota. So now he's gonna say you're out car talks from Massachusetts, though I don't. But I think I think Minnesota cher capital listen to more public rate on anybody on the planet. We cut all this outfil Yeah, what's the name of the street. What's the street that wait, wait, don't tell me, tell me in Chica, what's the downtown Minneapolis Mini ha ha Street or something? You're talking about Home companions companion, Yeah, that's supposed to take make wobbegun. That's a fictional Yeah, there's a street. Never never mind, it's just because you're not into the subject matter those Really you're into cars, of course, hugely into cars, just because you drive one every day like they're broken and when they're broken, I wish they weren't and I want to fix it. That doesn't make you into I was working on my car today, hugely in the cars. I find it surprising you don't, like I give those same two dudes. We're just talking trapping and fishing and hunting. You'd be like, that is the best radio show ever. My Boyfriend's trash, Briend's trash. I like all kinds of ship like, I like all kinds of Like. I just watched the thing about the Purfs, people that use the Rico law um to take down the organized crime ring, and how they and how the law came in the passage and how they used RICO too instead of doing these like individual prosecutions of these various gangsters were able to roll this whole concrete price fixing manipulation ring up. You know, Steve, he's very interested in concrete bidding process. It's like, no, I'm not, but I like that has nothing to do with what I like. M No, no no, no, I think it's just too out of your space. Is it the dynamic in the conversation that you don't enjoy, Like they like beat around the bush too much instead of actually getting to the issues. Yeah, they don't tell you. I don't learn about fixing cars, Like, oh, you've better taking to the mechanic. You know, stuff you should know that podcast. Yeah, I hate that you don't provided me with a great rebuttal. Cut all this out. You provided me with a great rebuttal. Is it? It's not actually about fixing cars. No, you don't learn about it. It's about the conversation. Did you check to see if it's on? Oh, we'll take you to a mechanic. It's totally about the Yeah, I feel like you guys, you haven't listened. They do. I mean stuff you should know. They eventually tell you, like what that podcast about saying, But like there's it's more about the conversation, the dynamic between the two and the way they go back and forth. Well, that's what makes talking about fixing cars entertaining. Dave, did you imagine it's what got David to pheasant hunting? Dave, act of loading the shotgun meticulously tell you, but take a show out of the box after I open it? Of course, break open the shotgun by pushing the lever. Dave, do you imagine how to videos go ahead? I had to say, okay, um, do you imagine that you would get into you like, would you get into big game hunting? Or would that be to kind of like it's too extreme? No, I totally would be into it. I've I've started to try to figure out a way to go deer hunting this falling out that I'm gonna be home this fall. Um at home. But yeah, I mean all of it. I'll try any of it, I guess, and just see what sticks, you know. And there's nothing like you wouldn't do. You'd go on a bear hunt. I don't know, fab maybe i'd go on a bear hunt. I never thought about it. Huh, you go on a bear hunt. I've been on a whole Pileum, do you like it? I go? Uh? All I meant was I think that there's a way that like when when someone as a grown up gets interested in hunting and fishing, there's like oftentimes there's these initial things that seem immediately palatable to someone. Yeah, I get that, And birds would be that. And there's a lot of people who wouldn't do other stuff, but they would, like they're comfortable, you know, catching trout and letting them go, and they'll shoot a bird, but that's about like as far as they're that's about as violent as they want to get. Yeah, I feel like I know people like that, but you don't feel that way. No, I don't think so. I mean, I guess, you know, i'd have to. I like to think anyway, that I would have to experience it to see if it's for me or not, you know, instead of trying to guess if i'd like it or not. You know what I mean, I don't. I don't have a um. If you're asking if it's like a some kind of moral um, you know, I can kill small animals but not big animals because they're big and furry or something like that, I don't have that. No, that was what I was asking. I get that, I understand that, and I know that that exists. But um, maybe I get out there and I wouldn't want to do it. I don't know. I've never tried it, you know, but I'm interested in it and I like to meet, so i'd like to. Dave's growing a garden too, so I feel like he's just he's now he's just words of the land. Yeah, yeah, the whole New Dave. You've taken up gardening. I did New New Gardener Gardener's Garden before, but it has been a long time. What what speaking do you do You feel in your head that there's a connection between gardening and and fishing and garden hunting and providing. Yeah, as far as providing your own food, making your own food in a certain way, I do see that connection and I like that activity. I'm not much of a romantic gardener and I gotta spend hours out there. I don't really get a lot of joy from the process of keeping it up. I do. I do like it, but it's not like I wouldn't say it's a hobby for me. It's simply just to get the food out of the ground. Maybe that's more of a farm like it's like transactional. Yeah, I think so. I mean I get it. I like the process of it, you know. But I I feel like the people I think of as gardeners are very much gardeners. Does that make sense, Like they're know, it's like an art form for them, and I don't have that with gardening for me, you know. But I do really enjoy going the food and and uh bring it inside. And what I've seen when those two paths crossed though, and boy did this guy reaps some freaking products. It was in It was in old town Fort Collins, Colorado, and the neighbor there was no yard. He might have had a little side yard with some grass, but pretty much the yard was this his garden, but it was run like a farm, and I think he I think he was a son of maybe potato farmers out of Ida something like. He was definitely came off of farm. But I mean he's the only guy I've ever seen any gardener for that matter that like when stuff got planted, there was the strings, you know, running down the whole thing, and this thing, I don't know it is maybe forty by forty ft or something like that, but I mean, just like everything packed in deep, and like people would walk by, they would definitely come and do the loop when they were walking their dogs. It was going for the neighborhood walk to walk by this guy's garden because when it was going off, it was just so impressive. And I feel like that guy he definitely wasn't like a gardener because that was like his thing, but he did it to such a level that you would have thought he was became a gardener. Yeah, just reaped. Yeah. I think I was thinking about a lot late, like why because I've always gone way out of my way to make sure to have some sort of garden and I think there's a big part of like forcing your will. I would never tell this to my garden, but there's like a thing about like forcing your will upon something like I almost have this sort of adverte like I have like this almost adversarial like this land wants to be grasped, but I'm gonna make it tomatoes. It's like I am waging, yes, like I am waging a sort of battle. It's not always loving. It's not always loving. It's sometimes is anger and like retribution, and like it's not loving. Parts of it are. Parts of it are um like I am the reaper and I am the sewer playing god. Our mornings are starting to like you can feel there a little bit cold, right, So I I made the decision to impose my will on my tomato planets because I'm starting to fear that the payout that I've been awaiting patiently until now, it's not going to happen. It's not gonna happen. So I went out there with my shears and just cut them way back, so they put all their energy into that's the theory, right, do you make me fruit? Now? Yeah? I am the sower. I am the I didn't the wrong order earlier. I am the sewer and I am the reaper, and I make the calls. Here. He got that little box that you can be that guy. To contrast that, I have a planner, like above ground planner, and I put a bunch of stuff in there, and no matter how I tried, the squash is taken over. It's like, screw you, Maggie. Like I'm killing everything else and I'm happy for the squash with man, am I sad for everything else in your garden? Oh yeah, So my spin ine is gone, I lettuce is going, and I'm just like every day like I'm kind of like resentful to the squash right now, even though it's like so happy that I gave it a spot, but it likes screw you. You know how we feel about winners. I was gonna ask about Minnesota winner being people like non residents of Minnesota, right always look at Minnesota being like such a polar, terrible place in the winter, and you know it's being someone from Minnesota. I love winter like it's like in my I was gonna ask if you liked it, because it's like something that I look forward to every year and everyone gets so sad about summer. But man, do I freaking just summer? There is is I'm sure that general favorite, but man, it's hot and humid and buggy, and it's my least favorite time to be out, you know, in the woods or whatever. But spring and fall and not in winters. I think winter is great. I'm always ready for it. I'm you know, I when it's on its way, I get super excited about it, and I'm always ready for it to be done. When it's done, I just like I like the progress of the season's I think I'm always really excited about the next one. My grandpa was a pathologist at one point, um in Minneapolis when he came out of Creighton Medical School, and and his first job was as a pathologist in Minneapolis. And and uh he described, um, Minneapolis summers is when the old Scandinavians die. Yeah, there's a certain pride there. But I mean, you guys pretty cold out here in the winter too, you know, I would say it's not definitely Yeah, it's maybe a different kind of culd too. I don't know. We're at this dude. Uh, there's this guy fished with for this. We have the fishing show called doss boat and this, And we fished with a guy I know from Michigan named Grant Galie, and he were at his house where he grew up. Like his mother. He was born in the house. His mother was born in the house, maybe his grandmo. They've been there here forever, like they got all these wooden crosses where they buried all these dogs over the years. Yeah, it looks like a like a dog arm ageddon, but it was spread out over a long time, like a like a big pet cemetery. He was showing me this old man across the road. Who's this lonely old man? And the guy had tilled up this patch of ground and planted all flowers and this patch of ground, and he expressed a grant that he felt as though, um, women would stop to admire these flowers, and that he would use it as in to talk to him. Did you say if it had worked. I don't know if it had worked. He had just there was this big patch of flowers and that's what he had expressed. This. The same dude told me these two other like a couple of other stories where um, he was telling me about these friends of his redown in Iowa and in Iowa. If you should hit a deer with your you can't blood track a deer onto someone else's property without permission. So his body hits a deer and the deer's bleeding like holy helmet, gets over a fence and he goes around to the guy and says, like, do you mind if I tracked my dear onto your property? And the guy won't let him do it, but he knows the deer's gotta be dead because how good he hit it. So he goes and gets uh game warden to come out and help him with the whole situation. And the game warden gets the landowner who won't let him go on his property, and they're having this little conference and they go over to the fence line where the blood trail vanished, and the game warden says to the landowner, he says, I'm gonna follow this blood trail, and this blood trader will better end at a dead deer and that dear better not be gutted. And the landowner turns him and says, um, let's just go to the barn already there it was a very nice buck dead in the dude's barn. Yeah, the guy got it, got it for him. I guess I have to take it back, right. I'm sure that's not even I mean, it can't be common, but it probably happens. It was a good story, man, he told me. He also told me, Um, we're standing and I'm like, no ship. Your mom was born in this house, you know. And he said the biggest party I have ever been to that I've ever even seen in my entire life was right here. And he said he said it was the parking at his party when his mom was out of town. He equated it to the county fair. This is the guy in Michigan, Dude. I'm gonna tell you the last story, he told me, Um, and then you're gonna have to get out your guitar. The last story he told me, it was there's some duty knows like I could be I might mess up. A part of the story was basically, a guy had a boat stored at a place Okay, and he doesn't pay his boat storage fee to the point where he owes four thousand dollars for storing the boat. But the boats more valuable the boat storage owner. Um, besides, he's gonna sell the boat, but it's to get his money back. But the boat's worth a lot more than four dollars. My friend comes in to catch and argument where the owner of the the original owner of the boat is saying, if you sell that boat, I get every dime over what I owe you, and my boy is saying the boats power was like nine tho. So the guys like, sure, sell the boat, get your four back, but the five is mine. And the argument gets so heated that the guy turns around and sells my body the boat for exactly the amount of the guy owed him. Sells it for four Yes, just as a must, just stick it to him. Yeah, and then he fished that boat for years. I haven't messed up any grand stories, but I might have messed that one up. But it's basically the groove of that story. Yeah, that's that's a great This guy has wonderful You should write songs all these things. I'm telling you, write a book. It sounds like you should write a song called um the boat deal, the boat and the flower bed the pet cemetery. That is the whole damn album. It's like a beautiful landscape. Okay, uh, can you get out your guitar now? Yeah? I want people to hear yeah, sing with me? No, yeah, a little I'm kicking. H What what you need to do if you're if you're up for it? Okay, how scruciating is this? I mean, I don't I don't care, man, because this is how what you gotta do. Man, this is music in the time of COVID. I don't mind. You have to first play a little teeny snippet of Maggie's favorite one of Megan's favorite tunes. Okay, right now, have you ever done snippets before? I know, I don't what you know what I did do snippets once? We got asked to play at a Minnesota Twins baseball game, and we would play thirty eight seconds or whatever whenever they have a picture change or they go to somewhere else. The point of us being there was to sing take me out to the ball game. But we did all these little and it would be a little little speaker there in a voice would come in and be like four seconds and we have to figure out how to stop the song, and anottle song with no rehearsal, because if we had no idea of the time, they wouldn't say you're playing for thirty five seconds. They just say you play until the guy gives you the warning. But the hook was that you were gonna do a great version of a great arousing rendition of take Me out to Them. And it was super fun. But I grew up a lifelong Twins fans, so it's kind of a little kid moment for me. You know. We got to we actually got to do the national anthem at one of the playoffs games there this year two, which is the scariest thing I've ever done in my life. I think maybe should do that. Oh my god. That's the problem with it is I'm not really physically able to sing that song, but I you know, went for it and it worked out okay, I think, But it was it's a lot of pressure on that song in that environment. You know. Um, you know the band's Silver Jews. I do. Yeah, he's got a great line, he said, is all my favorite singers couldn't sing. He's kind of a talkie singer. Uh yeah, I said it when he passed. Man, it was a great band, yeah, he kind of. Yeah, just not longer. I I mean on that band maybe five years or something. Band we were on the road with us, playing some of their music backstage, and like this is great American Waters, like American Water. I think it's one of the Yeah, that's cool. It's twenty best albums Country band like that. Okay, Midnight on the Interstate. Okay, I'm sorry, you gotta say. Can you say this one goes out to Maggie? All right, this one's from Maggie. You said this one goes out to Maggie. No late night night on the Interstate. And I didn't feel so great until I saw the city and I was younger and open like a child. Man. It's been a while since I felt that way. More and more hesitate because I don't know. Does that seem like a snippet? Oh? That was great snippet. Okay, the medley continues. All right, here's winners. I can remember it. There were dreams on a full moon night, black hole in the middle level light and feels's times, and we were feeling all right, and we were breaking down the wall a dirty little basement, intellect you guitar, sound of the river in the pines and the star. We drank a little too much here, we take it too far. Well, but most of us ride so much coming out there's nothing going in with your skirt above your knee and your murderous grin. I tell me that you're not leading. You're standing there so literal and free, writing pretty poems and ruining me. It took a little time of baby now see at the end is always near. And I was sleeping on a couch where the shivering dog practice in my speeches and steady and along. Nothing in the cover but a hammer and a saw and some nails to drive it home. So much coming out there's nothing going in. Yeah, I can write it down, but that would be a sin. And you know how I feel about sitting. But Charlie's on stage in the roof make laps. No one seems to word about the light and the gaps of the walls painted yellow in paper with mats. Nevermind us, It's time to move on. A pretty little city built on a hillside. It's music in the bars and fire in the sky. So we went to the beach and it was covered in ice, and I used to call it home so much coming out there's nothing going in. Yeah, I know that you feel like you're never gonna win all but the world won't forgive winner all right, made it through. Thank you, how awesome man. Thank you very much. Man, that was beautiful. Okay, So you didn't make any jingle off this performance tonight today this morning, I said, you know, how do people support you? Everybody just got a free song. Everybody just got a free song. So how do how do fans support you? Right now? If if a fan wants to support they can they can head over to my website at dead Man Winter dot com or trampled by Turtles dot com. Um, take a look at the store and see if there's anything you like. Um and and and you know what we're talking about with streaming before it helps too. So if you you know, whenever you throw that on there, it's it's all. It all adds up, you know. And then what what what are you most proud of right now? Like if people wanted to go check you out, what should they to get the most current snippet of what you're up to? What should people go listen to it? I put a solo record out just under my name, Dave Simonette Simonette, however you want to say it, um, yeah, that I released at the end of March, so I never really got to do anything with it. It never The told tour was canceled. Um oh yeah, I mean yeah, so that march didn't happened. It's called Redtail and you can check that out if you like. Do you did? You figure you just wait a few years and try again and re release it. It's kind of on pause right now. I think maybe I don't know. No, I mean, it's it's out if you can't take it back. But I only pick it up and tour it when you can tour it exactly. I hope to make up the tour. Yeah, so Redtail is a good thing for people to go listen to. What what what's the like? If people are interested and Trampled by Turtles? What's like? What's the like? The thing that you'd most eagerly point people to? I usually like the newest thing, So for me it'd be I our latest record, Life is Good on the Open Road, which came out a couple of years ago. Okay, so I should check that out, please do. Are you on social media? Can people find you on social media? Dave? Yeah, at Dead Band Winter and TBT dluth for Trampled by Turtles. Are you active on there? Yeah? Kind of you put hunting pictures on there? You good for you? Yeah? Thanks again for coming in. Yeah. Thanks. I appreciate the song. Its beautiful. I really appreciate all of it, fishing trip, everything. It's been a it's been a great couple of days here. We'll good come back. I will thank you.