00:00:08 Speaker 1: This is a me either podcast coming in you shirtless, severely, folk bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You can't predict anything. What's up, guys, I's going? Why don't feel like I'm not on? Am? I on? You? Hear me? Excellent? Good? How's Portland's doing tonight? Earlier? I don't know why I'll sick of this? Earlier I was thinking about how late night talk show dudes come out and they're like, ladies and gentlemen, we have a great show for you tonight. But I'm like, I don't know that. Um be like may me babe. Uh got a couple people want to say hi to out in the crowd. So Sarah, there's someone named Sarah here who like, here's a weird deal though. Um yeah, So your husband like didn't want to bring you, It was gonna bring your husband didn't want to bring you, was gonna bring some other guy. That guy's wife has a baby, and then he's like, I guess I'll bring Sarah. So it's the baby. The baby is Tommy, the dad is Brian, and they're presumably being together right now forming a bond. So that's great. It's good timing on their part for having a baby right, not in Hunting season? What is it? Oh you're timing? Not not in Hunts season? Baby, well done. There's a there's a dude out here, Ryan Kristen, who supposed he looks exactly like me? Where is he? Is it that true? Look at him? Do you look like me? All right? Are good? Buddy? Matt Elliott from Bench Made is here. He's a bass angler extraordinaire, So hi to him. And then, uh, guy, I know a bit Joe Feria, are you here all right? Okay? Um, a couple of things, got a couple things we gotta cover real quick. Did you guys listen to a recent episode where there's a dude that well, I want to do introductions because you'll see why. Go ahead, cal Well, that's not your If you're gonna do introductions, you introduce people. I'm gonna allow for introductions. Are we going to introduce each other? Are you? My name is Ryan Callahan, Thank you very much for coming on feeling. My name is Ben O'Brien. What my name is Janice patelis? Thank you about Jana. We had an episode recently where I want to find us to get it right. We had an episode Obnoxious Stimuli, and in it we're talking about a guy that wrote in. He was saying, how Yannas doesn't get any credit, And he wrote this poem about Janice that had the very awkward line in action how like an Angel and apprehension, how like a God, which I thought was the worst line in the world. Um, we got your back? Are you sitting on that day? It was a back on now just your first time, Steve. So it's called building suspense. So I thought it the worst line ever. And a and a listener wrote in to say that the man that wrote that poem plagiarized portions of it from Shakespeare. It's from Hamlet, and that says something about him, like, if you're gonna plagiarize, like generally, you don't do it from the world's most famous writer ever, because you're gonna get caught. And it's gonna say something about me that I sat through Shakespeare seminars in high school, college and graduate school, but did not pick up that that was from Shakespeare's finest work. But I do. When I retire from my current job, I want to write a book called In Defense of Not Loving the Bard, and it'll be like like a book length essay about how it's okay to just like Shakespeare. Um. He goes on to give a high coup. He writes a high coup for Janice, which is a solid high coup. It's this lavine, eagle keen of I and swift of kill power ring onward. That's a that's a high coup. Also another quick correction from noxious Stimuli. There's a guy who wrote in he describes himself as noxious stimuloss because he was a person who wrote a piece of hate mail that there was talking about how I suffered from narcissism and a d h D. And then our underwear is very expensive, which that part I can tell you he was not true, because mine wars nine bucks. But he was adding into So we we have a thing where we've crowd sourced things that we know make Turkey's gobble, and we have a new shirt coming out which is all the best things that make Turkey's gobble, from sonic booms to what else is down there, rumble strips, carridors card I don't know if that made the shirt. Car Horns probably made the shirt. Thundering throwing rocks and stalking rocks, that stop signs kicking roussy, old hunks and metal dry dude. So the dude rode in and he this is an interesting story where he and his wife refurbished an old cuckoo clock. You can see where this is going. And he's got horses and turkeys come in in the winter to feed on the horse feed and then to pick grain out of the horse ship. And one day he his new cuckoo clock gets done and he opens the door. The cuckoo clock goes off and four gobblers all hit it. Yep, so it was too late to make the shirt um on that. I heard another one that's knew that was. I think it was d M to me, I like using DM. I feel like I'm I'm young. Yeah, you know it does. I thought it was like I've always only creepy. She said, slide in on d MS. I thought that's where he goods. I have been getting that myself. I'm sliding in on your d M. Don't that's the I'm creeping in on your d M'm just sneaking right. No, you direct messages, that's what we're talking about. You're getting down low. These are totally different. Got lost because I left my chord. So I'm really distracted by might not have my chord with me that I plug this thing in with. So I missed you're saying, you'd like to say d MS. It makes you feel young. Yeah, and you know what those are, d MS Direct messages. There you go, I say, uh, I say a dude wrote in, or ten percent of the time I get to say a woman wrote in. Anyhoo, this fellow was saying that he was having a slow morning in turkey hunting and decided to pack himself a big chaw. So he brought out his tin and and got a gob. Yeah that's good. Uh. On the subject of turkeys, I heard a quote I thought you'd like, ye honest, and it was that when a deer sees a man, it thinks it's a stump. When a turkey sees a stump, that thinks it's a man. Like that. Yeah, it's good. I feel like a turkey's like a puffed up room. But that's just going around. They don't know what they're doing. Man, they're idiots. They're idiots. I'm not gonna defend turkeys right now. I want to talk about does anybody in here make their living or any of you, the people that all make their living catching Northern Pike meddals, do you know about this? That guy does? No, seriously, has anyone in here redeemed? Has anyone in here collected a bounty? You guys have collected your bounties on Northern Pike middals at least three four, five six. This is a fascinating business you guys got going on in the state. Who's gonna break this down for? I know everybody in here is a bounty hunter, but um, somebody needs to break this down. Who wants to start? Get him? Cal? It's an odd thing, is what I would start with. When you have a native fish species that has a bounty on its head? Um, what did real quick? He's good? Well, there's always one guy. What we're gonna get into this? And then we're gonna get into this. There's a whole lot that needs to be covered here. But basically, you girl up not Yeah, you grew up. So you grew up knowing the fish as a squaw fish, Yes, correct, Northern pike mental squaw fish has other names. Squawker, Yeah, I thought you need another one. Yeah, it was the the Columbia River. Dacey it's a minto. It's in the mental family. I now set the set the you know table, set the table. I know everybody's hip to this. Most folks are hip to this in this room. But um, basically have uh this pike Minnow it's a predator, like very aggressive eater. And they collecting large groups uh behind the dams, and then they will put a serious hurt on the steel head and salmon smolt as they stack up behind the dams in large holes too. But um, yeah, so the Bonneville, right, Bonneville, Yeah, they the power company. I want because we're telling you, guys, we're trying to put if you didn't detect, we're trying to throw a local spin on this whole thing. Mi, Mike just cut out again. Yeah no, we got you again now though, trying to throw a local spin on this. We gotta remember all those brothers in Ohio and whatnot. I don't know about this to go on until um there is a incentive two catch and kill the northern pikeman uh uh in an attempt to protect steel head and salmon. Then they put a bony on them. Yep, so I think it's two bucks of fish. Eight it's eight what right dollar amount? Though you catch one to five you get this month that's a six pack of fancy beer per fish. So this year, so the bounty program, the bounty the annual bounty program opens May one, runs through May. Then you have until November to turn in your vouchers, which you get upon catching the fish for payment. And this year more than one dozen anglers earned over twenty grand fishing and the Snake and Columbia River. The program like throwing a lot of hate. You guys are throwing a lot of hate. Had a little fish And I'm gonna get into this because there's there's more to it. I'm not I'm not disparaged of the program. I was given prompt to those guys that went out or gals that went out there and did it. Got it done? Yeah, because what we were unable to find out today, who's the most reputable person out in the crowd? These two guys right here? He's you guys to say you collected a bounty. Okay, do you have some exposure to contemporary pike middle fishing? Can you and like in a sentence, explain how what is the tactic? What is the approach? The most effective approach uh for catching them. Yeah, chicken liver or chicken liver and worms. So you're just classic bait fishing bomber, no bomber on the bottom. Okay, so you just it's like you're out fishing sun eas or blue gills or whatever. But it's pikee meddles every time of the year during wherever the Yeah, they congregate right, getting big big they pawed up. Yeah. Okay, so hold on real quick, I just want to make sure that the expert in the fifth row back here concurs you guys. Everybody's starting. Everybody's cool with the idea that people use liver and worms in basic bomber on the bottom, A couple of split shot kind of standard rick. Okay, good, Now, there's there's some weird parts of this that will get to So the program pays anglers five to eight bucks for pike meddals over nine inches long. As of October seventeenth, the top angler had made seventy one thousand, forty nine dollars this year. The next three spots so no, so he's number one, numbers two or three and four. These guys in that period made over fifty thousand bucks fishing Pike Meddals. Uh, there are a bunch in the top twenty. There are a bunch of guys who made anywhere from sixteen to thirty six. Last year, the top angler in the Northern Pike Middals Sport Reward Fishery pulled eighty four grand for five months work, down down from last the previous year in two thousand sixteen, a mug fished up one nineteen thousand and three hundred forty or the Pike Meddals five months of work. But here's where this gets weird. Is they to to get people even more fired up, they released one thousand tagged fish, which if you catch those you get five bucks. But that's like a funny deal because you're saying like you're saying, like to your kids, I'd be like, I want you kids to kill all the rats, and I'm gonna put a bunch more rats like and they're all gonna be in there, and if you catch those rats, and then I'm gonna pay you eight bucks forever your rat you catch. And I just let a lot more in there. But I'm hoping that that means that they are that the ones that are cutting loose. I'm having to think are sterilized. Maybe no, no, I will tell you, uh squat or uh pike minto ceviche is very good, especially those tagged ones. They're extra deletos. They yeah, because if you catch a tag when you get five hundred bucks, you buy shipload of lemons, shipload of beer, shipload of lemons, go east and sushi. They caught like five million of these things since they started the program. We were reading since five million. Oh so the thousand is nothing like getting of the program. Yeah, I got you. I could see it um real quick. On chasing hold on, I'm not going you have more. I'm not ready to go to chasing you. I was just thinking about it that there's I know a lot of five fishing guys, myself being one of them, that like, you're not making anywhere near that kind of money, busting your butt all summer long, rowing people down river. People that are you know, the people that really have fish on the brain. You can speak to this. They might consider coming out here and making money for four or five months. Yeah, man, you get a system down and be good. But I tell you, I mean they are a fun fish on the flyer rod like they especially in the spring when they're spawning, like they destroy flies. Super fun there, dude, the caliber of dudes were talking about here, Oh this is different deal. They're not at it for fun. Well that it might be enjoyable. What I'm saying, these are like top shelf anglers. A lot of days before I get the chaf and I want to hit a point I forgot because this is like I was hitting up Matt Elliott about this. Matt Elliot, who I mentioned earlier. Um, he's got a real act. He I don't say he's got astagrind. He brings up interesting point because Matt he likes to be in bass fishing contests, bass tournaments. Um so they he He's expressing his concern that people are taking the same level that they want to persecute smallmouth bass the same way they're persecuting the pike mento. He takes offense to the idea because a thing that they find with the pike middles, you know how they don't pay till the fish hits nine inches. A thing you run into there is that the once the pikemanto hits a certain size, he's more likely to have like he's more likely to become pasciferous, which means the fish is more likely to become a fish eater. So when he hits a certain size size threshold, his diet might switch defeating on salm like salmond and fry. Oftentimes when you're trying to like destroy a fit or like to remove nonnatives through mechanical means. If I got to interrupt man because the expert in the row five man, he is like the e in row five I have has raised his hand times. But we're like, we're messing up. We must be messing up the pike mittle thing really bad because fixing to have a connect. I would love to hear what it is because I just can't picture that what I'm saying is not correct. Go ahead, go ahead, just clarify it quick, quick and dirty please on the lamp right heel also not so much the sad much small the lamb right heel also so much the bottom walker word break harness for walleye stay and washing. Okay, so he's pointing out he's pointing out about gentlemen in the audience, is pointing out that they like to feed on lamp raids. Cool. Yeah, Matt Elliott was telling me washing have released the limits on the small mouth bass, the walleye, and the catfish. There's no limits. Get that. Trying to lay out, trying to lay out I'm trying to lay out a little exeology here. Now I do want to add that part of the reason for that nine inch rule is they are likely preyed upon below nine inches by other species too. Great, great, thank you stay with me if you will for a moment. Where are you saying something? Yes, Now, you guys are familiar with the infestation in the Mississippi and Ohio river rivers of the silver carp big head carp. So they come in there and they come in and they open up a commercial fishery just try to remove the fish, and they set a certain mesh size so you can you can run the large square mesh and you'll pull out the largest of the carp. The thing do you find when you're doing mechanical removal, so not poisoning, but doing mechanical removal of fish that you're trying to get rid of, is you don't you wind up not affecting the biomass, but you affect the makeup of the population. So someone might look and say a certain system is going to support x pounds of some species of fish. As you remove all those larger pike mentos, you wind up with the same poundage of pike mentos living in the system. You're just affecting sort of the demographics of the population. Matt Elliott's grief with the persecution of small mouth is that he was telling me how as a small mouth gets bigger, his diet actually switches to crayfish. But by removing the largest small mouth, you are selecting four or small mouth that are more likely to be eating cell Monnet's dragon. That's all I'm trying to get across. Man. If the gentleman for row five months to come up and explain the rest of it, that's fine, But I'm still trying to get to this chasing. Are we good on this? Yeah? I'm cool chafing, chafing. Uh, this this is last I canna say about chafing. But we covered a lot of tears from a guy who took bologney. We talked about this guy slice of blowney and put it in his gluteal crease in order to in order to he got chased so bad his buttocks that he couldn't move and took a sandwich apart, stuck a bologney slice. For those that are are just listening, Steve is rubbing his hands together as to as to mimic the gluteal crease, to mimic the actions of your your your buttocks rubbing. And he put a slice of blowney in there and walked out, walked back to his truck. This guy writes, and he's a chef and ship they use corn start. They use corn starch, of course in the commercial kitchen, but he also keeps a box of corn starch in the bathroom. He's apparently he's a healthy sized fella. And while he's cooking, he cooks, so he cooks with such gusto that he gets chafed while cooking. And when it happens, he will go in and uses corn starch, which he says. He's a great here, and he uses corn starts to treat his nether regions and alleviate is chafing. And he they tell he tells a humorous story about a new feller coming into work and he goes to thicken the sauce and knows that he's sickening with corn starch and goes into the bathroom and he can't find the corn starch, and you can see where that whole thing goes in there. But he says that, um, he says in closing, he's a good writer. He's like in closing, don't be afraid to bring a little storm corn starch with you in the field. It's old or less easy to carry. And in the pinch you can make a quick temper a batter, which is something we've never done. Okay, we gotta talk about another thing. What we talked about before. This is like, this is the part where we just talked about stuff we already talked about, but we add a little tit bit, a little corn starch. A little corn starch takes away the more Yanni, can you can you can you lay the groundwork on the I want to talk about the Florida panther thing because I feel like we we talked about Florida panthers. I feel like we we we we we created confusion that well, we just misrepresented the glades. And yeah, but like the first bit, they had a study in Florida, And when we had a correction, a guy that worked on the study rode in and clarified all this for us. The problem is when we get the stuff, it's just so hard to go and then research the next like five levels that you need to. You know, we don't have all these people on hand that are just you know, waiting to write an email before they even know we're gonna talk about it after we talk about um so, Yeah, we used it for one of our We did a game called two Lies and a Truth where we were telling stories on stage and people had to choose which one was the truth and the truth that night was um that there was a study in Florida where they had collared turn sixty three deer roughly something like that. It was in South Florida and they were just gonna check on like what was affecting the population there from habitats, predators, um what else were they looking for? Yeah, we can various things, but one of the main things was mortality. So you you get a death signal, yeah on your collar, like it doesn't move for typically I think it's forty eight hours or some of the time enable doesn't move. Then you rush out to try to ascertain what we're down. Yeah, I figure out who've done it? And um so, at a two hundred sixty three, how many were killed. Now, like most of them right over four years ended up being like two or forty were killed or something like that. Um, I mean not in a bunch of the numbers now, but mostly the highest the best predator was uh the panther cougar, the Florida panther. I think they killed a hundred and fifty something like that. Yeah, bobcats got like five. Um who else is got one? Humans only got one? And they were even told that they could shoot these collared bucks and even like the website page that I was reading even had a picture of a nice buck with a color ono and they're like, please shoot these guys if you see them, because it needs to be part of the data set. Yeah, well they're they're they're trying to say to people, was like, ignore the collar. So if if you wouldn't shoot it but it has a collar, don't If you would shoot it but it has a collar, do So I'm just saying, like, forget the collars exactly, which is tricky because I wouldn't want to shoot a deal with the collar because it would seem not mysterious to me. It would be like someone else was. It was like you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, you see what I was gonna say inappropriate fair nine year old. Yeah, it would be like if you were too and then found out someone else had UM. But we talked about this and someone also just a signed off. But someone brought up like, I'm not doing anything to that thing anyway. A Florida man in Oh no, but real quick, yeah, Florida man, Florida man, but real quick? Why is it cool? Like I wouldn't want to, I wouldn't want to shoot some of the with a collar, But why is it cool to shoot a duck with a band. It's just different. People get all excited to make necklaces out of it. You don't see it, dude with the necklace of a giant radio collar like like a run DMC necklace with a Jesus guy, I'm switching to handheld man. Why did my mic go mad? Oh? Oh no, we're gonna yeah. So what happened is you didn't gather that we're gonna take a meandering your process. We only got another two hours, so well we didn't know was that in the study area there was I think three different regions and units and one of them UM had no hunting at all. One of him was like a walking only area, and then one I think you could access through a TV. So, um, that took a lot of hunters out of the equation. Then it was a bunch of the area was buck only, and like two thirds of the two or sixty three deer were females, were those that were collars. So all of a sudden you bring the number of like possible deer to shoot way down. So really there's a fraction. Yeah, so I just said, so three deer. It was a fraction. You know, there were available four hunters to actually shoot. So and I called them the lowly Florida hunter because we're just thinking, man, how did like the panther just out hunt you that bad? But and then and then the writer was like kind of prefaced the whole the guy that rolled in preface the little thing being like kind of sticking up for his tribe. Yes, it's like, it's not Florida Florida hunters or cold blooded killers. Don't you make no mistakes. Given the opportunity, they would have got it done. That's right. What I when he finished with that thought was really interesting is how he said that, um, that zone which none of us I think from where we live consider like that you'd have sort of contentious wildlife issues in Florida, right, Like, I don't know, I just have an idea of Florida that's not that. But he just said, like, imagine if l A was in the middle of Idaho. He's like, there, it's Naples, and then it looks like a big city of Miami on on the other coast, right, and then you just got this crazy wildlife corridor in the middle. And so when you have like a management meeting in the public's invited, you just imagine. Man, it's like every single character of the United States is you know, different kinds of minds that are shown up there to give their opinion. It's pretty wild. Yeah, it's a country. Yeah, it's a fighting state when it comes wild. Because they had the they had their they won their bear season back and then lost their bear season. People fight over creators in Florida. But what are our paths of the Booma? Guys saying though, like to out hunt a cat, you better be doing some serious hunting. I mean, that's a deer every four days, right, about a deer every week, and you've got two hundred and fifty you have about two lions in Florida. It's a small population, but people too, just the way people work, Uh, a lot of people I think over ascribe, you know what I mean, Like like people don't want to have any competition. So I think that some people here, some people know that there's mountain lions out there, and they'll blame they're not like, damn cars kill all the deer, which kill a help a lot more deer in Florida, the mountain lions, but you kind of like pick the thing that seems most like you. So hey, So that I think that that people have a feeling that they do more damage than perhaps they do. But then this study really kind of throws that off because this study they are just steadily whittling away at these things. Someone brought up this idea and they wrote in about another piece of work that got done where there was some I don't know the details on it. I'm sure we'll hear about it, but someone in some biologists I believe working in Africa, we're looking at when you do a coloring study that you're kind of throwing it off because they argue this person was writing and argues that an animal that's wearing a collar is actually more likely to be killed by predators, more likely than his herd mates to be killed by predators. Janice has it he has a feeling why this is Yeah, I interpret it as I think he's he put this in the email, is that the one of the best defenses that hurt animals have is that when they are attacked, they're allowed to move as a mass and sort of distract predators coming in there, and the prayertor can't. It's harder for the prayer to isolate one single animal because they all kind of looked the same, they're moving the same. But when in his study that he was referencing, I think that they had painted the horns pink or red, and he was saying that he thought that because they were losing animals very quickly in their study, and he just felt like the feeders were able to get in there and go, oh, if I just keep chasing that one with the pink horns, eventually that one's gonna get tired. It's easy for me to stay on track. So you're saying, if you were like a smart wild beach, you might go and like put a sticker on your bro and run beside him during when the lions come around, put a little glitter on them or something like that. Find them out. My interpretation, not my interpretation, but I think an idea that I would like to add on that I can't tell you is right or wrong, but it feels right to me, would be that they might also see it and register it as not just that they can keep a track of a mad the confusion, register it as different. Perhaps wounded pointing out, yeah, pointing out that this guy took offense to the idea that when you put a collar on them, you make them more likely to get killed, even though he wasn't really able to only back it up a poaching thing on on top of real quick. This guy had the most genius idea of any poet I ever heard. He poaches a buck out of season or gets an extra buck, and then decides to freeze the whole damn thing to check it in next season. Yeah, buddy, but gets caught. Did he say how he got caught? Does it? I can't. I can't find out how he got caught. It was a twenty yes, freezer burn. It's like, you know, it's like this is like a real like a Michigan style it's a twenty point buck freezer are we talking about? I don't know. I don't know. I'm t curl it up. Yeah, they just let bedded down in this freezer for a year. How come no one's asking me how old he is? How old the buckets? No, the man is fifty six. You guys just asked me parts. I don't know. No one's saying no. One's like, uh, what was his last name? Still? What county they live in? Dob You don't know? The caliber freezes the thing? How many points? Wasn't? Well? Yeah, but you gotta understand in the Midwest, this is Indiana. When when when we're a little kid, if if a TV host named Fred Trost could hang his wedding ring on a point that was a point, That's why in Michigan you'd be like, do you hear Billy shot a thirteen pointer and you see the buckets like you know, like your hand right the size of that. But it would be like any little protuberance is it is a count? So they're calling it, but but it does. It's a it's a two white tail. So here here's the funny thing where ties into something you've been talking about lately he's been talking about ways in which you get in trouble for killing stuff. So this guy gets a hundred hours of community service five forty day is a probation and a seven dty one dollars and finding court costs, and then he has a paltry replacement fee of five hundred bucks, which is where the state puts a value. This is just the portion where the state says that dear is worth five bucks to the people of the state. Like what we have you know what we have invested in the animal. It's values five hundred bucks or five bucks one state over in Ohio, So that buck must have been orphaned. Like, no, there's no game management manager watching over him. Nothing. He was just kicked to the curve. They didn't have any money in doing one year old. No, it's it's he's saying something totally different. He was saying, like, why is it valued so low? Because in Ohio the replacement fee on the buck would be honest, knows what it is. He did the map, that's Ohio's replacement fee. Indiana's replacement FeAs five hundred bucks. Indiana has got a lot going on. They're busy, they got a lot they're turning out so many tucks. They drove the value down. Another guy froze the two. That's five hundred bucks for fun. It will be fine. Do you do you remember talking about I was really surprised and pleased about a particular snake that I heard had a a barbed pecker. Remember this, this is one of the two of them. Well, no, he was a double peckers. There was a snake and a snake. Guy was explaining that virtually all snakes have two packers. Someone what was explaining to me something interesting about ducks Where he's saying, most ducks only have a cloaca, which is like a uni hole. Right, like all commings and goings happened in and out of these male female holes that you line up. Three percent of birds have penises. Ducks have penises. Some of them are corkscrewed and maybe barbed. And the ducks can be longer than the duck itself eight to seventeen inches. Now I'm not gonna like add a lot to this. There was a dirty limerick. There was a dirty limerick I knew as a child that had to do with They had to do with an anatomy. Part that was threaded and it was and someone had to search high and low to find a compatible partner that they found them that they thought compatible. What I want being a left handed thread in the way of dirty it was just an old dirty limit. Again for the listeners, who are you who can't see us? Steve is making a corkscrew motion with his finger motion, and sexual explained this fact of duck anatomy um jumping in something I wanted to talk about freezing crab? What uh you have experienced the blue crabs? John? Can you can you walk through crab freezing for a fellow the road in? Yeah? I can, but through my father in law, be cause I personally haven't frozen the crabs myself, but I know how he didn't because I hooked him up with a new western uh back stealer. And so he the At first, the crabs are punching through the bags. They have point little edges all over him. So he likes to clean him first. He likes to clean out the lungs and the guts and sprays them all out. So nice, pretty clean crabs. But it still looks like a crab. But he hasn't totally no, no, no, yeah, And so he just he started putting parchment paper I believe in there on on the top and bottom that gave it just enough would flatten out the spiny parts and the bumps to not break the seal. Sorry paper plates. Um, So we ate them over the holiday. So they were frozen, you know, mid summer probably, and then we ate them over Christmas and they were fine. They tasted just like does he you guys, don't you guys don't boil them first? No, no, no, they were not not not pretty boiled. I wonder why, because like my trainings and crab have always been, when you're gonna to freeze crab, you always boil it like dungeoness ten minutes very salty water, then freeze only freeze the knuckles and then or we pick it in bag bag it. But then someone recently turned me on too picking it. And this is like like sportsmen sports women, everyone's always trying to do stuff in milk, soaking flames and milk this and that milk. But picked their dungeoness crab meat, put it in a jar in milk and freeze it. And I did, and I let the thing sit there for a calendar year on the why I threw in the word calendar. Yeah, like not just any year, brother, this is a calendar here. Um frozen for a whole year and it was good. It wasn't like brand new crab, but it was good frozen that way. Buttermilk five's got his hand up again, like half and half you're gonna pop your shoulder blade. Owt man this, calm calm down. I feel bad. I gotta make an a mission here. I'm from Maryland, the blue crab state, and I never frozen crab in my life. You say crab training. My crab training was to pick them and eat him and get drunk, because the only training I ever had. And if somebody says no needing to get a freezeful, to get a freezer involved in that situation. But we have a service to to to reply to the I can't tell the man. You can tell him that he wants he wants to freeze them. Your grandfather, and you want to spoil your grandchildren that love to eat crabs and they only come a couple of times a year, you will they're not old enough to drink beer. Yes, I like how there was zero division on the pick crab drink beer, not everybody's like, wait a minute, drink beer. You're going to pick up the crabs at the place to drink beer on the way back, and while you're picking them, it's all the same methodology. So you're saying it's cool, you're saying it's like, really bad if you're from Maryland to do this, we freeze them. I got no problem freezing them. I think it might have to be with how successful of a trapper you are. That's true, because if you go only get like onesies, twosies, if you're like stacking them up. Another freeze question and yeah, just feels like we've answered the bunch, but it comes up. Maybe this will be the last time. But but can you freeze thaw and then freeze meat? Yes you can, but you can't free starf free starf freeze freeze thought. I'm kidding. Yeah, I think you can go to town with with that whole business and you're not gonna I bet we could pepsi challenge the whole room. Nobody would tell us if how many times can can you what you just say? I said, we could pepsi challenge. That's interesting, that's interesting. Someone I forgot about this, well, I know but someone was like a pet. Like he was saying, when you're trying to test someone, let's say someone has a weird thing where they think that that something is better than something else, like the case I always used. My brother used to have a girlfriend who thought it was gross to reheat coffee from the day before. And then he was like, you can't tell, and she thought she could tell, and so he's he realized that what he thinks is she can detect the temperature differential between it coming off the coffee maker and it coming out of the microwave. So he took day old coffee and new coffee and made him be exactly the same temperature, at which point she couldn't pick it up. And someone was telling me, I even wrote this down somewhere because I've been wanting to mention it. He there's a thing called triangle testing. Like let's say you're telling me that you can tell a certain kind of beer, and I think there's no way you can pick that beer out of a crowd. Triangle testing is when you do two of a and one of and then the person has to come in And this is how they just professionally do this. The person has to come in and pick out be So you put out three tours the same, like, tell me which one is different, because that way you're eliminating it from being a chance that they're going to get it right right, So PEPSI challenge, go ahead, because that's what I usually think it is the best way to do it. So let's just say that we had, uh, two pieces of me that had been frozen thought frozen thought, and then one piece of meat that had been frozen thought. I just don't think anybody in the room could pick it out. Yeah. I think the word the resistance to free style freeze comes from which is inherently free staw, free staw unless you're eating it frozen. It comes from like food. It comes from restaurant people who are kind of like, you know, the word nazi gets abused these days, but like restaurant people are like the food safety nazis right, and so I think that they have all these like best practices and if you've got health inspectors and on and on and on. But I've been been doing it my whole damn life, probably not following the rules of a restaurant. No, not at all. But the reason where I use free stall freeze with game meat. And I know what you guys do is you bone something out and it's like you're in a hurry or wherever you're traveling or don't have time, and you bone something out and put it in gallon size zip block bags and kind of take them sharpie and sort of right on there what you think is in the bag. And then you later thought that bag out sorted out. I wonder what idiot body of yours wrote what was written on the bag, because it doesn't match up to what you feel has come out of the bag. Sort it all out, clean it all, get it and recipe ready pieces. Then I refreeze it, then I thought, and need it. I do that all the time, just for time's sake. You don't want to if you come in, you drop a deer off and you're going to do something else. You're not just gonna let it sit if you can try age it, or you're gonna age it somehow maybe, but freeze it all the time, and then fall it and freeze it again, and fall it, freeze again, and then you spend your whole life with people telling you can't do that. These people out here, y'all know, because of all this labeling thing. I just started keeping a hand grinder in the kitchen because I had so many instances being like, oh yeah, I'm gonna have steak. I'm gonna have and I opened it up and it finally falls out and I'm like, oh boy, I'm gonna have a burger tonight. I think in our case, I don't want to throw anybody under the bus because they're not our idiot friends, but they just have less experience looking at me and then writing down what it is. But it's uh, it's the camera guys. Yeah for sure. When I get when I hit a mislabeled bag, I don't think it's you. I think it's other people. Okay, yeah, yeah, he's he's asking that like as the prepare, the cook, the chef, however you want to put it, Like, when you're working with that piece of meat, do you notice a difference or does the person that's just putting it in their mouth and chewing on it notice a difference if it's been freeze frozendent thought or frozen thought multiple times. I know it because it lets off a lot more water. But um no, and you know what that would be. That's double blind the taste that the no double blind is when the person administering the test doesn't know either, that's double blind. That's nothing to do with what that guy's asking. The answer is go ahead, freeze tho, you're totally fine. Bear meat is delicious. Oh yeah, so bear meat trick gnosis um. There are those who believe there are those who believe that, and there's some you know, there's some evidence that supports this, that freezing it sterilizes it. The right amount of freeze sterilizes it, and that now prolonged exposure at lower tempts sterilize it. We're gonna do an article about this, which will have at the mediator dot com when it's ready, And it would be that you could take so it's like that it takes one sixty five to kill trick Anello spiralis or the various species of trick Anela larva kills it. But it might be that you could suevied bear meat for eight hours or what you know, a day at one forty and get it. So it might be possible with new technologies for future generations to eat raw rare and I'm not raw, to eat rare bear meat. Safely. But I hesitate to go and tell people to do something that I don't really know is right, having been afflicted. Um, but yeah, there's some there. It seems to be that. But then here's the deal too, is like like trick and nos as we say, trick Anela spiralis is a very common form. But it seems that northern varieties might be more freezing, that might be more resistant to freezing. Northern varieties of the trick an ella what have you can handle that more? Because I believe there I've been cases where people have contracted it from meat that had been frozen for a long time, and so southern varieties could kill them from freezing, there are northern varieties that can't. So it gets a little bit tricky. So I don't know if we're gonna beating rare bear me anytime soon, but I think it's on the horizon. There's hope, there's hope. I want to revisit the thing we talked about a bunch, which is the saga of Steve ken Drots Busted Deer Antler, because I've told the story so many times I would like someone else to tell the story, and then I'll tell the why I've now changed my mind about it. Cal you were there, just tell the story. Call. Yeah. So the quick and dirty on the story is you have this two guys that our buddies. One guy shoots a nice uh seek a deer stag um, it's got a broken time right, His buddy um that same season shoots a seek a deer stag um that upon keeping the stag, he finds a time embedded in the deer's neck. Yes, correct. Out of curiosity, he takes that time and is able to match it to Steve Kendrots seek a deer stag and it is a perfect match. Yes, that is the story. That's the story. And then we came into it and berated the man on this show. The man kept the time, so Steve's got the the deer that owned that once owned the time, and the man keeps the time that belongs to Steve's deer. And they were happy. They were happy, they were friends. Yeah, they were going on through life. And then we had come in and started the pot and we I thought that was an offensive idea, and I thought that Steve should get his time back, and we berated the man so much that he sends Steve the time, But now I feel like I was wrong because because this is all about guilt as he caught win that these people are talking about how bad he is that he didn't and then sends him the damn time. But then someone was like, it used to be that two people had a cool story, and two people could have guests come to their home. They could point at a shelf and say, see that, and then tell about it. But now only one guy has a cool story, only one because the guy don't even have the damn time. Yeah, no conversations. No one's gonna be like, hey, what's that all about? And oh, I'll tell you what that's all about. But not only one guy's got a good story. But a guy wrote in about something that was interesting. So he's at a party and a guy, he says, one of the guests at the party starts some and he uses quotes. He starts some quote ship at the party and his cousin who's the host of the party, goes to call in the situation down and the man who started the problem, uh punches him right into face, real hard, knocks him out. He leaves. The next morning. The guy, the guy that got punched, he's hungover, but he wakes up and realized he no longer has his tooth, and they go and scour all around the yard and can't find the tooth. A week later, everyone gets word that the man who punched him is sick and in the hospital. The eventually find out that he's got some sort of infection, and it turns out that this tooth is buried in this man's hand, causing a nasty infection makes him sick. And he pointed out that no one ever called him and gave him his tooth back. So he thinks that if that's how it goes with humans, so it should go with deer and deer hunters. On a related note, a person had this experience. His brother, his brother in law, gets a new bow. You know this story. His brother law gets a new bow and they go out on the rain and he's gonna like shoot the bow and I'm gonna get this right. How he does this, The string slips out of his grip because it's a wet string and smacks his hand and he doesn't think anything of it, but he has a lot of problems with his hand after that. Five years later, he's sitting in a hot tub and out of his hand comes the knocking point which he carried around, not the knock of an air of the arrow, but the little little metal point it's on like a traditional bowl where you put your the knock of the arrow onto the string just underneath it that holds it there. Yeah, the little metal ferrell that you pinch onto a string. He unknowingly carried in his hand for five years and then it popped out, and he sent me a picture of both his hand and the thing. So I believe him, you guys. Uh, so he believes about the hot tube. He might have been making that up for Yeah, he might have been doing something weird. Six chicks so yeah, a bunch of ladies is namby got a birthday tonight. No one today, nobody. Oh there you go. Good, we'll get We'll get back to you. You know, I get it. The dude um and his bow blew up on him. He was letting down, called this bowl in. I told him don't shoot it, because I felt very strongly that we're gonna get on this real big ball. And as he was letting his bow down, it explodes, no idea. Why Um, the string smashes his left hand. He's supporting the bow with and for at least a month, the guy would send me pictures of what looked like a perfect tattoo of the bowstring and the d loop on the web of his left hand. So I can see how that knock point would get in bed at have a little bit of energy to get in there is then we got a birthday tomorrow. Yeah, they got a lot of life left though, that'll be fine. I don't like reward. I don't like reward youth. Uh. I like to find people in the autumn of their existence and try to make and try to lavish the enjoyment on them. Oh, the get a couple of different questions. One, you guys have a new Oregon finally has a new established road kill law. That that's something I've really failed to understand it all, is how some states would have it be that you it seems to be like a god given right that if you were to run something over there, like you're driving your car and you run something over that there, there could be the possibility of an argument that you should not be able to eat that thing, and the Lord said it shall be delicious. It's just just like it's like, oh no, no, no, No, we know you'd like to go home and and and utilize it and eat it, but it's very important to us that you let it bloat on the side of the road, uh in a in a track, flies and smell bad, and it's just it's important us that that's what happens to that, dear. I have as a conscientious objector. I have violated road kill laws many times, and almost as did the other day. But it happened to be the dead deer was in my yard and I felt like I would be a suspect and he had been hit real good. But so Oregon has a new thing where you can go and if people can file and get a permit for road kill, and so since January they have I think since about a week ago. Um, you guys, state has issued one hundred and sixty seven permits for deer and elk. So that's pretty nice. We had to road kill sandwiches the other day. You eating road kill sandwiches? Yeah? Oh dirt, myth Dirt's dad Pop Dirt. He uh smack, you guys know him, saw somebody else smack a deer right next to their house and uh so he scooped it up Apparently it was tougher than hell um and they pressure cooked it, and uh, that's that's what eight. When we're ice fishing the other day, he's a he's a thrifty dude. Dude, we would usually limit like we would usually limit picking up deer too, that someone you saw someone hit it, or you like, are running somewhere real quick, and then you run there real quick and there's no dead deer. And then you're running back and there is and you do all the math in your head and you realize, are you on foot at this point? No, No, it would be dry and dry like you like, you're like I went to my buddies and then an hour later, you know, and you figure out the death of it went on. We had we got an interesting stories from two people are talking about like rules governing road kill, and then they're kind of related. I didn't catch one of these guys the state one of these guys is from. But motorist in front of a gentleman hits the deer. The deer is still alive in the road. That motorist gets out and drags the he's still living deer out of the road in departs. This guy happens to have a concealed carry permit. He calls the police and says, I have a deer here that a guy in front of me hit. It's still alive. I have a pistol with me. Um. I would like to keep the deer, and I would like to be able to shoot the deer because it's still alive. And they say, you cannot shoot that deer. We will have an officer out in thirty minutes. So rather than so, he goes out and strangles the deer because he doesn't want to break the law. What about The next logical step is that if you can't shoot it, strangle it. But that's where it's funny. So then an officer shows up and it's and he says, well, here's what happened, and the officer explains that he sure is glad that he strangled it, because they sure as hell wouldn't want to shoot it. A guy from Texas wrote in a about this where he comes across an accident where a deer has been hit and there's an officer there observing the wounded deer. He gets out and the officer explains that she does not feel right shooting the deer. And would he hands him the service pistol. Yeah, he wrote in about how strange he thought this was shot twice in the air. Pop hands him the service pistol, which he uses to dispatch the deer. One thing leads to another, and eventually he has it tucked into his pants as they're messing around, and it gets to a part of the interaction where he pulls the pistol out of his waistband and hands it back to the officer and then goes about his business with his deer. That's awful gangster of that guy. It's it's like very very gangster. Yeah. I mean, you know, my little sister is a cop. Right. I don't think that's a part of the gig. I don't think they cover that in school. Oh it's Texas cal Well. What was we talked recently another show? We talked about, uh, what the most valuable thing you learned? Like, what's the most valuable thing you learned from your father? And I remember you were looking for a little clarity as we discussed this, and you meant like in life in general, or like hunting, fishing, outdoor type things. And there's a there's a miss there because we should have talked about as well, like what would be the most valuable thing you learned from your mother? But I think that guys get so like the whole father son thing really can kind of take a person over. But what was the most valuable thing you learned from your mom? Hunting? Fishing, outdoors, cooking? You know, Yanna, you're taking this one. You had to throw the cooking in there. Just helpful vacuum really from my mother, you know, that's all she did. I'm kidding. Um, Well, with dads, you're like, yeah, hunting, fishing, and then mom is like hunting, fishing, cooking. So I just went on step farther and said vacuuming. Oh yeah. But the deal is, there's like a reality to it that all the guys like, and it's hard to unpack. You can't unpack all the nurture nature things that it just gets really complicated, But just a reality that at a time, you know, all the all the guys in my family participated in some way in our media area, like all the guy participated to some extent in hunting and fishing, and it just so happens that virtually none of the women in my family did not. Because I don't think it's because of native proclivity, but just because of you create like a cultural inertia. Yeah, and your mom did most of the while game cooking right, other than it was a deep fried. My mom cooked it right, and my dad deep fried everything, but he kept the deep frier in the garage, so like made it almost more like it was almost more like mechanicckng. You know, you like go to the damn like you had to go to the garage to cook it. So he had made it his own right, must be clear. My dad vacuum the hell out of the rug like it was a good vacuum. Yeah. Back up every night, man, I don't know. My mom would always tell me, like, you know, wash your hands, eat your vegetual stuff like that, so that was key. But beyond that, um, the same as you. My mom never never hunted. Never Uh she encouraged me to hunt. I don't know, you never meant my mom all Now I feel like doing a your mom was not encouraging, uh, encouragement. That would be a good when I'll give that to you. But my mom was accepting, not only accepting of the things that we did, but passionate about our passion, right, So there's a way to inject you know, it will be like this is my wife as well. There's a way to inject uh energy into something that you aren't passionate about by accepting it, promoting it, and understanding that. You know, all our wives, all our moms, understand that it's something that we are driven by. And they put no no blockades in front of us, no bearers in front of us. They take they help us push them down, right. So that's what my mom did for me, because although she wasn't out there like my dad was, she was pushing down every area I had to go out and hunt. Everything she could do for me to make sure I was prepared to go. Everything she could do to make sure it was cooked when I got back. She was always pushing down those barriers to help us go outside. So I appreciate that that's good my mom um. My mom was pretty thrifty and the early hunting clothes that we had, my mom would buy wool and sew us wool suits to wear out hunting. She they had a garden and she would uh can so we had a canning room full all the glass jars lined up. She would can dear meat in the jars if we when we had brought home squirrels, she would help us get all the squirrels parted out, and then she would cram them in a crock pot and pour in cream and mushroom soup and cook them for us. She would roast ducks for us. She would on rainy cold days, she would drive us around to check our muskrat traps in her car. And it was all of this kind of like it was. It wasn't glamorous, but it was all this like really supportive stuff where she recognized there was value in it. But to get a sense of so so I'm forty five, my dad was fifty when he had me. He was born in She was quite a bit younger than him, but they were there was like a different time, and to get a sense of how dudes interacted, like like how men interacted with women, my father interacted my mother would be that my mother would go and like an anecdote that explains sort of that relationship and how opportunities my mother would on Thanksgiving would like get a turk, not not shoot a turkey, but we would always cook a store about turk on Thanksgiving. So they're frozen in this big damn plastic bag, you know, and she would thaw the thing out in tub of water. She'd get the or the giblets out and boil the giblets and make all this stuff season the bird, stuff the bird, rolls the bird, do everything. That's all the work. Guys all day would do nothing to help, and then it would be done, and my dad would make this big show of carving the bird. It'd be like, now, now, little miss, we all know where your talents and uh, did you see this? Yeah, I will u cut its leg off because that that's beyond you. And like she would just allow this kind of stuff to happen. That's a perfect analogy for like how we think about our dads and our moms when it comes to hunting or anything outside really, you know, and traditionally it's true that we don't give him credit. Yeah, we build our fathers up as these great figures. And we talked about I talked about my dad all the time, like taking you out anything your mom, Like my mom would buy and stitch us will hunting clothes and she doesn't get to make it into a story. Sorry, moms. Road man, I gotta tell you I grew up a little different. We know, cal Hey tell counterfeits, Mike, is that on past tensing? Let me see your thing? Thanks? You get a hanging thing. I'll look at this. Yeah, friends, help, thank you? Selling all right here here here, Hello, I don't want to hello my friends. Hello. Alright. So my mom would be out like crawling around on her hands and knees catching grasshoppers so we could go fish time and fanatical fisher him. She super obsessive about fishing. Her mom. My grandma's the exact same way. Um, grandma never threw a fish back in the river in her entire life. Encouragement from that lady like you wanna believe I have a picture sheet? Uh? I wanted to learn how to fly fish at eighty nine years old. She called me up and was like, you need to drive up here and teach me how to fly fish. And I said, yeah, no problem, I'll be up you know in July. She said, Ryan, I'm eighty nine. You gotta come up here this weekend, which was an eight hour drive. But I did it. And she had an oxygen tank on her back and she had it turned off. This woman's got one long uh, so she could preserve her oxygen so she could prolong her fishing. Uh I was holding on to I was like, well, you gotta cast a little bit further. You gotta cast a little bit further. And she waded into the river and I had to grab her by basically her pants and her underwear, which was not the most comfortable thing for the grandson, UM, to prevent her from falling into the river. And uh I copped one big fish that day, and uh, I have this great picture that I think my mom got as I released this big brown trout into the river. Her face was like torture and her hands were out like this and she's going no. Uh So those women, uh were absolutely vital. And my enjoyment of the outdoors lots of encouragement, and some of my absolute first outdoor memories were because of those two gals. Yanni, you have to have a good one, Janni, because your least tolerant of your my jokes. Oh I got I got a lot to bring to the table for this one, Um. And to be clear, I hope nobody takes that damn. I was making a joke on a bad joke about the vacuum, So please yeah, you were doing me you all. I think you say you tell me that you know me better than nothing. The reaction I got there on that one. So you were like, you were uh parodying thank you you you were parodying uh Tucker Carlson impression. I don't know who that is. You gotta keep up on your current events. Go ahead, what's tell tell us about your mom? He's he's a hunter angler. Yeah, he's gotta have a lot more time to do that. I want what's interesting, because I want I went to an event. I went to an event one time at t RCP event and the m c s who are friends. Surprisingly it was m seed by Tucker Carlson and Rachel Maddow who are friends and both like the fish. I'm not joking. Go ahead, ni um. This is a tough one because you know how much I love my mom. Do a year my joke to Yanni. I one time did a year my joke Yanni, and he told me the next time I did that, I was gonna see a blinding flash of silver from his power ring and that would be the last thing I ever saw, not ever, just for the yeah, at that moment, it would go black after that uma when it comes to I'll make a brief when it comes to hunting and fishing, I really can't remember anything that she specifically would have taught me that would relate to the outdoors. I mean, she certainly she encouraged us, and she took us to boy Scouts and whatnot. But earlier, when we were hanging out, um, before the big crowd got here, um, somebody asked us about like what we learned from our our our dad's was that what the question was? Yeah, okay, And so I was saying about my dad at times it felt like he worked as like little child slaves, and but from that I got a good work ethic out of the deal. Right. Well, I think my mom was like definitely the yang to that yang where she didn't really like hammer on us that at all, but she just like whatever we did, no matter how bad we were, and we were bad at times, like really really bad, like drove her batty and and two tears often, I think, but she always accepted us and always loved us, and I think over the years it just taught she The biggest thing that she taught me to always just like to love, like no matter how bad someone can be or do something wrong, and just to always like just be like that's that's fine, and just continue to love and try to, you know, keep your heart open, not get down on people. And what's that got to do with hunting and fishing? What does it have to do with hunting and fishing? Keep your heart open, keep your heart open? Is Janice has headed down in two or three days, he's driving down for his mother's surprise birthday party Denver, Colorado. Is she gonna listen to this? You think? You know, there's the thing I wanted to like a long air we've made where you know, we're always talking about writers, and someone was he's written a couple of times about this. We're saying that we do Patrick McManus a great disservice by not celebrating Patrick mumanus. Another person wrote in where he was observing, how we use we mean the people on this year program, well use sometimes creek and sometimes creek. Now I want to combine these two things because Patrick McManus has the best working definition of what the difference between a creek and a creek is. He observed that if you can find a spare tire in it somewhere it's a creek. In the absence of tires, it becomes a creek, which I feel works well. So there we've taken care of the Patrick McManus problem, and I've explained how you can tell a creek from a creek. There's a question that that that we've wrestled with before. I want I want to get to it once is, uh, how do you get rid of hunting or fishing partner? And how do you do it? When do you do it? And have you done it? And he points to someone that the reason I bumped this question up in the list because I was reading something from someone who got kind of screwed real bad. Where they had There's a group of guys and they got some little uh public land hidie holes for ducks that they like to hunt, um that they aren't really well known, and they got some private land spots they like to hunt, and they got they took a buddy of theirs out and not only did the buddy then wound up guiding on those spots, but uses pictures from the day they took him to those spots on his website and he goes, he still wants to hunt with us, Should we let him but have you Yeah, how do you like? Have you ever had to go through the awkward and awkward breakup, an awkward hunting and fishing break up, No it's not you, it's me kind of thing. Yeah, No, I've never had too. I've always said pretty, you know, pretty good relationship with hunting partners. You never had to end one, never won. I've had some people that I thought it were dicks that I never would have partnered up with. Is generally avoided from the get go, from the get go. Yeah, you gotta be a good judge of character. I imagine I got nothing. Man, I've solved this through a couple of long walks. Uh and then there's just no more asking. They call that a disciplinary hike, and uh yeah, there's been a a couple of just real straightforward like listen, it's just it's not gonna work out. Yeah, that I can think of. I don't want to get into specific because I don't want to because none of them are dead. Um, but I've never done like I've never had. I've I've never been a situation where you had to be articulated, meaning that if it if it wasn't a good match, if the compatibility was bad. It would just you could. I think that both parties would feel it. I've never had where I'm like, man, I will never go somewhere with this guy again, and then had him still want to go somewhere, Like I think that that I'm maybe I'm not transparent about it, but I've had it, and we would even talk about we would even have a word for it, where me and my main crew we would say that someone had been o t CED, meaning they were out of the club, and it just people get OLTC. But you would never like notify someone. You just would stop inviting them. I thought maybe you throw them over a counter or something. No, not over the counter. All college days though, right, it's like big mixing pot of folks and you know you're at a party and everybody's like, oh I like to hunt. I like to hunt. I had a couple of ones there it was like whoa, hey, I didn't get the call, Like, yeah, it's interesting that you brought that up. You're always late, you never pay for gas, you have no spots, you are out of the club. But the fellow that wrote in, I mean he's very clear, just like no way. Yeah, that feels egregious. The times when I've when I've broken up with someone, it would become it would be where they're where there came to be a like an incongruity or like like a lack of consistency about how open I was being with where we're going, and then whether or not that would be like reciprocated where I would be like I would go like, I'll take you to go check out this spot, and then you'd be like, hey, you know how you guys were getting into some you know whatever the other day, Where were you guys exactly? And they wouldn't want to divulge. And that always I felt like like the minute you open it up and offer someone take someone or give someone a spot, that there's like a thing that there's like a understanding most people have that that would be reciprocated. I'm starting to think, now, did anybody ever break up with me and I didn't know it. I'm open to the idea that it's happened to me. We haven't hunting together lately. Right now, I think I have to finish it off with the fact to say that it's like a very as they call them, first world problems, or it's like a luxury problem to have to be thinking about getting rid of hunting partners, because I know a lot of people that don't can't find a single good hunting partner at all, you know, So I think talking about like picking the best ones is very luxury to be thinking that way. You know, a lot of people just came and find one to go out there. So you should just open your heart and keep loving the one that was good. That was good. Oh, that was good. I almost want to end. I almost want to end the show on that. But there's two more things I want to talk about. Uh. One thing it's interesting is there's an article that recently came out and it was about how wolves returning to Oregon in Washington, like what that would mean for deer hunters and what that means for deer. And an interesting study came out of University of Washington where in the press they found that in the it gets kind of interesting about mule deer and white tailed deer looks at multies and white tails. They find that they didn't put it this way. This is why I look at it would be no, no, I'm not, I'm not. That's not a loaded sentence that in the presence of wolves, mule deer become like more like mule deer, and in the presence of wolves, white tails become more like white tails, meaning that as mule deer face predation from wolves, they will sometimes shift their areas where they hang out by miles intend to go into rockier, steeper country then where they would like to be in the absence of wolves facebook predation by wolves. White tailed deer conversely get or white tail ish and want to go out into flatter, more open country. One of the things they attribute this too is you're familiar with I'll give you I'm gonna hit you boys with some trivia. What do you call the way a mule deer runs by his bounce, his bounce stopped, stopped, they stopped and stotting um gives them ability to jump and navigate through very broken, rough terrain. And it seems that for whatever reason, they find that they can evade wolves better up in the nasty stink. White tails want to get downward. They can run long distances, faster and seymour. And to put a little bit of a negative on it, they say that it mule deer and the presence of wolves move into areas where they're more likely to get preyed upon by mountain Lions and deer move white tails move into areas where they're more likely to get smacked by a car and then shot by a driver borrowing the service pistol of of reluctant officer. They also gave some some credence to a thing where and and they're looking at it. It's like hunters red like as wolves move in and colonize more and more areas all time, hunters get oftentimes get a sense of that there's been a great decline in game numbers, and they open up the question in here that maybe as much as anything, people are realizing that that where they go to traditionally find game isn't paying off. The assumption is that it's gone, when in fact it might be radically redistributed, and that they're not seeing. You know what, I got a thing for you. A friend of mine, former friend of mine. He didn't get ourtc. We just lost touch. The writer Chris off It, I wrote a book about his family, to which his family took great offense, and he said, you know what, write your home book. So I'm recapping. I'm recapping the work I thought I was pretty clear. I'm explaining something that someone worked on. He finds that where was I the redistribution of game. Yeah, that there's a redistribution of game, and they're finding more so than an overall decline. But where it gets interesting is that the recap of it, like it touches on the eye idea. How ranchers have found that even though cattle are not getting killed necessarily, in some cases, they are not gaining weight is fast because they're dealing with so much added stress. And so you might not see high mortality just from predation, but the fact of being displaced and added stress could open animals up to higher mortality from other causes. It's a little something, just just a short, short, little son short prief uh. Before we get into the last thing, I want to talk about. What is one um? What is one thing you cook? Talk about one thing you cook that you feel like everybody should know about. Hurt sam which is on Yeah, man, heart sandwiches. I stalk pile my hearts and my tongues. But like a medium rare heart sandwich that you know, the consistency of heart is perfect for a sandwich because you can cook and intact piece of meat. You don't have to like grind it up or slice it. And it's got bite, but no like pull to the bite. You know, it's not like a tough chunk of meat. You know that's pretty good man. That's like that's a great t shirt. It's got bite, but no pull to the bite. If if you know what that means, I will listen to what you have to say. It's true, it's got bite, there's no pull to the bite. Hurt sand dost sandos? How do you cook her? I met a guy that was big in the heart sandwich is one time. I think it was in the state of New Hampshire. He'd like to cook his in tomato juice in a crock pot. For whatever reason. Dudes with people with crock pots the whole cream and like you know people with crocot it comes with a can of soup. Yeah yeah yeah. So uh typically like my preparation right, like I'll get my heart out, cut it open, lay it out, clean her all up. I was gonna make an open heart sandwich joke. I thought that was heard sandwich. Your dad just had open heart sandwiches. It was a success. Uh, olive oil, salt and pepper, let its sit, you know, mix her up in a ball, let's sit and then uh like kapra say style like basil mozzarella, tomato uh mao, and garlic butter on the bun like facaccia bun. And then uh, throw that heart on the grill, hot grill, medium rare on the sandough, not sliced all thin. Because what's nice about the heart is you can literally, like if you wanted to, you can put the heart on top of your bun and cut out the outline of the bun, making it like a perfect meat to bread ratio. You're going a whole heart, no, not a hole. No, and it's a laid open Isn't that waste full of the remember the open your heart Joe open heart sandwich. But nights, I'm just trying to track make sure I'm yeah, well I'll make them. I got a pile of hearts. Uh, go ahead and get you guys ready, because I can hit mine, no, hit yours, hit heres. I'm still thinking my foodding that I wish everybody knew about all You cannot go because you'll have something great. Oh no, mind's not great. No, it's not great. Okay, go ahead, everybody, knew about it. No, if it's not great, go for it. They're gonna have to wait. Uh, I'm gonna do a lot dry agent lately. And because of that, the cuts in the on the highend leg that you might normally roast or you might normally put in a stew or something. I've been trying to, you know, smoke. We smoked in the office the other day, smoked the acoust der hind leg and just took the rounds and and everything just made steak. Just smoke and slice them thin. It was great. But I've discovered, especially on the elk, the eye of round is like this beautiful hidden tender loin that just sits inside of that back leg. So whether you age it or not, you ought to be searing, like probably reverse searing that I have around, just like it's a tender loin. Man, it's delicious. Don't forget about it. A lot of people forget about doing that. I love it around the eye of round. Someone was asking and I can't have found a good answer. They don't like when they age venison and you cut the rind off, they feel wasteful, Yeah, discarding the rind and there's I don't I discard it. It's also occurred to me I feel like someone to make a good contribution to wild game cuisine should notify the rest of us about a good use for the rind. Once it's trimmed off. Cow feels dog treats his That's a great when cow feels strongly that you shouldn't need it, right, I mean you feel like that. It's to go back to a point you made earlier. I I mean, I ate some in the office the other day. Just try it. That's me dealing with my own health. I'm not gonna recommend. Yeah, I know, I understand's got a lot of problems, guys. Yeah, he's working on them. But you know, white mold. We were white mold on salami and stuff like that all the time. So um, you know how he's dogging earlier on chefs and how pert snicky they are about food safety. A chef buddy mind if it's not black and fuzzy, he doesn't pay any attention to it. He doesn't like black fuzzy mold. But other than that, uh, did you know what's hanging to my garage? I have that? Yeah, I did see that. Yeah, I'm gonna I'm waiting for that thing to become all rind. When it's rind all the way through, I'm gonna cook it as it's just it's just a team has like hanging from a hook above his work bench. What is basically at this point a desiccated deer leg. No, it's it's all cleaned, all it's been eating except for the shank. But it looks as if like the dog snagged it off the highway and drug it into the house. I have a plane to what I'm gonna do with that thing. I just called Sean Brock's name. He's a good dude. I'm like, I didn't like this guy first. I'm starting like my one because this comes into where, uh my thing I wish everybody knew about is are you good on yours? I'm pretty good? Are you good? I'm good? Are we good together? Okay? Duck? It's like to take a puddle duck and pluck the duck and you cut off where you have the breast flay is boneless, and the back leg is bone in, and the back leg is connected to the breast flay by the skin. You can see how to do this in the mediator fishing game. Cookbook, which is available everywhere books are sold, and you take it and then you score the skin both ways so that you wind up with little centimeter squares of skin. Score it with a sharp knife. Then you turn your oven on four degrees, and once it's good and hot, you get a super hot skillet and lay the thing skin down on this lightly oiled super hot skillet. It's skin down on there until it's the skin pucker's up and all the little squares are puckered and crispy brown, and then you flipped it back, skin up and stick in your oven for six or eight minutes until it's very rare on the inside, cooked on the outside. Slice that son of a bit thin, serve it with chutney, and then let your children chew the drumstick that it's key that they're the way to eat duck. That's how you eat duck. And that's what I tell him. I'm like, that's how you eat duck. Your kids they love the bones. Why do they love the bones so much? My kids always say, I'm saying, we're what are they having tonight? Said? Helk me to the kind of the bones in it? And no, that does not help me, Like all they want on his ribs these days, or little duck legs too. I guess mine right now would be the one I wish everybody knew about would be. Um, it's I'm gonna start with turkey pot pie, which I use turkey drumsticks and thighs to make. But just is, see, this is seasonal. You're doing great, this is seasonal. Thank you, But just braisen down sighs and legs off of turkey. I still hear so many people talking about, oh, just pop the breast and you know, leave the rest out there. And man, you like to double your yield by taking out those you know, legs and thighs and then, uh, we've been doing now is free braising them. On the weekend, when I've got some time, I'll do just a whole crock pot full, cook them all day long, pick it all apart. My wife really likes it if I take all the tendons and the little extra stuff that didn't the jello that didn't quite melt down and disappear. All that stuff needs to speak go on, and then we package it in you know, half pound back seal bags super thin that way. And anytime I want to make a turkey pot pie, or we do um like Carneta's with them soft shell taco kind of deals. Um what else will make a quick like chicken noodle or not chicken turkey noodle soup? Um, just take some chicken stocks and noodles, some veggies throwing a package of that and got this awesome soup that um you know you get that super great wild dark meat flavor out of it. So um. Yeah, That's what I want everybody to know about, is that meat is awesome. You just gotta cook it right. And uh then if you want to go net next levels, make that turkey pop pie because that's a real crowd pleaser. Where can they find that one? Just joke? If they came up with you guess hip to this whole thing with lab grown cultured meat? Oh yeah yeah. People keep asking like, dude, if they come up with lab grown cultured meat, will you stop hunting? Look? What the hell? Like I did stop hunting? I didn't stop hunting when they came up with People didn't stop hunting when they came up with fire meat. No, why the hell would you quit for that? No? Negative, Feel free to boo everybody about that idea. It doesn't sound appetizing. No, I'm SKINNI sho of it, man, I'm skinnish to lab grown meat. And also it's like the whole thing about it is, it's what you're striving for in my mind, is like that that visceral hands on experience, you know, And that seems to me like running in the exact opposite direction. I do like, I don't care about I hope other people really did get to really love it, But no, man, I mean it doesn't have any bearing. Yeah. Oh, you know what's funny about that. My wife sent me an article. I'm gonna wrap We're gonna wrap it up in a second year. My wife sent me an article and it was someone some magazine has done an article about how all hipsters look the same. And there's a there's a picture. They use a picture of a hipster on it and the guy writes in he says, that's me in the picture, and I'm suing you guys, And then they go and do research on the image and it turns out it's not him. All right, So we got yanna. You you're gonna do, You're gonna do the things. Man. Um, We've got some presents for birthday gaps. Then we got quick a conclud conclud. I was thinking about like factory meets, you know, like meat to cultured meats, and anybody ever had like a stake um something like that stake um. But like, I feel like there's so much stuff worse already out there that you can get him McDonald's. That's that's that meat Mick ribb meet growing in the lab would be better for me than a Mick rib I just want to put that out there. They paint the grill marks out so like I don't have as much problem with that as I do. I think I feel like if you get McDonald's, you just have to eat it like in an alley, so you feel bad about what. I feel strongly about that. So I think, man, if they would be on the right track if you could literally like grow you could get like a kit and grow the meat like in your garden, right, Like I feel like you grow your own meat and then you at least have a sense of satisfaction of like, how's that burger? You like that? I used to be like che a pet style or on your counter growed out. But if if it's just like another series of somebody buying anonymous stuff that they have no connection to. It's like, what is this step forward or step back? What are you growing in your green house? We have tea bones in le filets. Yeah, I pulled that off the burger tree. You like that? Do you are? You asked? Oh, you got a concluder that you did that constantly? Was that your guys concluders? Yeah? I feel comfortable. I have a concluding question and then we'll see because that we get versions of this, but not this one. Is there every we always get asked like what animal we'd love to hunt? What animals hunt for the rest of our days? What animal have we not hunted yet? But what's the animal that you have not eaten yet that you would like to eat? Oh, that you're curious about? Yeah, we're working on a deal where we got a badger. Uh on the ground, sasqua, sasquash. Sasquash should have like nice backstraps, Yeah, probably nice eye Round two? Next I round try sasquats. We got a badger. We're gonna do a thing where we're gonna try to eat a badgers. So I can't I'll say that promotional purposes. Uh, well, I guess all of it. Um, I'm curious about it all. But I just had, uh was hanging out and ice fishing with a state trapper in Montana and uh, I had just been cooking up some Mounta Lion with a friend of mine and he was like, well, yeah, what do you think about Bobcat? And so well, I've never eaten Bobcat and he's like, well, it tastes like piss. So now I really why a Bobcat could somehow it tastes different than a Mounta lion. Mountlin is delicious um and an absolute treat to have in the freezer. Um. So now I've kind of feel like I need to try some Bobcat. And dude, do the Pepsi Challenge triangle test triangle test. Yeah, Uh, for me, it would be a this is a little bit tricky because there's a fish I really like, like black codon, But it would be a I want to find out what a black cob that I caught taste like. That is tricky, which is tricky, which is very tricky. But I'm striving for that. I'm and I'm hoping to hit that this summer. That's my concluder. Now, well, you got some chores you need to do. Yeah, two things. Two things. One you canna help me out though with the merch table. What do we what do we got left out there? Well? We have so we have the show only, the live show only, Steam Breathing Turkey, How to go to Deer Bandana, how to go to Janni's, how to go to Dear Bandanna Col's Smells Now Lady T shirt. I must comment that I, for the first time I saw a guy wearing one, and it is a little bit creepy because but in like the best way possible, because I think that someone might see that, and they might not. I think that that's something that someone shouted during a grizzly bear attack. It might have been something that they overheard in a dark alley somewhere, something somehow in Las Vegas late night. It's a confusing shirt. The young lady that was, the young lady that's running the merged table probably not a hunter. The look she had when she was reading the text of that shirt. I wish I could, I wish I could. Was very impressed. Yes, yeah, and she said, man, whoever would wear a shirt like this would be a sexy, beautiful human being. But hear the words I heard, big Open Heart. Yes, we also have uh th HC, the Hunting Collective. I was concerning to me that we're calling it Gosh, guys, this is the podcast that I have, and it's concerning that we're starting to call it th C. But if we're gonna call it t j C, I think we should start selling gummy bears. I heard real quick. Uh. What I heard from a guy is they don't understand this, but now we're talking about packing a full stadium of dip big. He said, there's a thing they do which means just so everybody's on board, which means that you take enough to fill up your whole upper gun and you're a whole lower gun because you can you can run like you can run an upper decker, which is which is or a horse shoe. You can run a horse shoe or upper decker. You can run a horse shoe lower decker. But when you run both, or shoot upper and lower decker, it becomes a full stadium. But apparently the youngsters these days are taking where they're running up the running the full stadium of gummy bears while doing tequila shots. Oh yeah, And a guy was talking about having this happen, and then all of sudden had to throw up and got so bogged up in his mouth that he threw up out his nose, so it's like, and he rode into the meteor website. For some reason, he wrote us about this. We're very for some very trusting. You wouldn't tell anybody about it? And do I have a problem, you know, I'd have to go revisit it. I don't think there was a problem, like I was pouring over my on X and then please don't tell anyone about this, all right, guys. Prof f