00:00:00 Speaker 1: Yeah. My name is Clay Nukeleman. This is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called The Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f HF Gear, American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. Um, hey, before we get started here, if you don't mind, I'm gonna change my boot in your I feel like I should go change. I feel under dressed. So I'm Brent. Why don't you describe what I'm putting on here? I'm speachless. Clay has pulled out a pair of gray crocs official Crocs because I can see the alligator on the side, and he has them in work mode. They are four wheel drive and they match his puffy jacket. They do match my gray puffy jacket and quite the ensemble. Now, wait a minute, are we do I need to hook money in? Are we going to fight for this? I would hook him in four wheel drive? Here we go. I just after last render, when you know, kind of dogged on the crocs and my kids bought these for me for Christmas, so they are they're highly convenient, the gift that keeps on giving a waterproof jelly. The man they are, especially when you're duck hunting, because I was this week. If you listen to the podcast, you heard me say that I have a goal to see how long I can be a water fowler, which I'm a new water fowler. How long I can be a water fowler and not actually own my own pair of waiters, some borrowing waiters. But it's come back to bite me when Sean Weaver is the guy you're barring him from because he duck hunts, you know, hundred days a year or whatever. And uh, the waiters that he let me borrow had a whole I learned that you can take crux with you so you can stay in the waiters the least amount of time possible. Let's let's talk about another thing, and that is that you were complaining about how they made your figure look. You're like, oh my gosh, I look huge in these. It's a true story, he did. They were giant. Looked big on camera. Yeah, they're giant. They were, Brent. I mean they were like eighteen inches wide at the knees. Well, I heard slim fit waiter. Okay, makes you look like ten pounds tremor. I'm really just looking forward to see a first light offers like a modern cut. I'll tell you what, Clay, I started off the season with six pairs of waiters and we're down. We're whittled down to two. Wow, it's pretty rough. He fly fishing waiters as what he's using. Yeah, I feel sorry for him because I think those are leaking. Now. Well, those big waiters you gave me, they looked pretty good. But listen to this hot tip, Austin. I'm gonna introduce everybody here in just a minute. Hot tip. These waiters were like soaked in the left foot and we hunted the day before and it's cold, and I mean it took me four hours to get warm once I got home. It was it was I was chilling cold. I think it's play some coffee to warm him up while we were hunting. Yeah, it worked. What I did the next day because they didn't dry out, is I put a ziplock bag over my foot. It worked. Great. You done that before. I carry a roll of trash bag really yeah, Lea. And the great thing about the trash bag is you can tie it off the ankle, shin the knee, crotch, and I've gone that out with him. Like, what's the old thing you used to do with the pillowcases? Put them around your feet when you're a little kid, hop around like a potato. Yeah, yeah, have you ever done that with like two legs? And the waiters and oh man, waiters, waiters a whole another story. Hey, once again, we have to we have like legitimate guests on the render all over. Brent and I are the only ones that are the regulars here, the curmudgeons. Yeah, so Brent, we're gonna have to really behave beyond our best game because we have I'm gonna go left to right to our left Max barta of meat eater. Max is Uh. Probably should introduce Sean first because Max works with Sean right right hand man, but you're left handed. Is that a slight to him? Keep moving? Um? Max is Uh photographer, producer, waterfowl hunter, twenty five years old, paternal twin um, and he eats a lot. He's trim man though, eats a lot. But read on his Instagram profile handle he can make he can make friends with the two before. And it's true, It's true. Thank you for having me Burger's Render. Max Barta. Max Barta sounds like a future president. It's a good name. That's funny you bring that about that yet, But maybe it's funny you bring that up because every time, every time we roll into a new group of people, we're trying to do something, trying to get somewhere and get something accomplished. Max slows us down. And I always say, don't worry. Max is just running for president. That's right, because I'm just talking to people, getting you know, him nice, trying to make him smile. You should say, for for for the record here, I'm Max Parta and I endorse this message. Yeah, okay, I'll say my name is Max Parta and I endorse this message. Representative Left Sean Wever of Meter Sean you you're you're an old pro on Burgers have not been on the render though, Nope, not been on the render. Sean drove. He drove to my house from Missouri. He was on his well, no, no, no, it was far for him because he drove from Utah to Missouri and then down to my house late one night to record those that session that we did. So that was a night, but it was worth it. It ended up being worth it for you. I mean it was you did really good. And so Sean works for meat either you you've worked for Meat Eater for less than less than a year. Yeah, but we are currently actually this is our last duck Hunt of the season, putting the final touches on the new show duck Lore. Yeah, she'll be part of the Meat Eater network. You can we tell people how many shows there are? Is that a secret? The first season will be six episodes, and we're also filming the second season in the same year, which will be six episodes, so they're twelve episodes. Twelve episodes, and we can we can say that that's what that's why we're here right now. That's why we will later disclose where we're at. Not yet though. All all Austin all entertainment is is just drama, drama and hooks. Okay, so you you you have a little drama like this is a secret location and then you but you tell them you're gonna tell it later. So we'll tell you where we're at later. Later, I meaning like when do we get to our next guest. No, it's great to have you shot. It's been awesome. Hunting with you. We're gonna talk to more about about our hunting to your left and Marie d Ramos and Marie. Great to see you, Clay, thank you for having me. Glad to be here. So Anne Marie is a commissioner and this is the reason we have to be on our best behavior, you two as well. Commissioner of a little organization they called the Arkansas Game and Fish Commission. And so we've been here, Sean and I and Max have been here hunting with Anne Marie for the last four days, five days, and uh, she's been hosting our team here at kind of the family, the Family Duck Club, which has been super fun. Great to have you, hey, glad to be here. We've had a great time the past few days, got our fair share of hunts in um got you on your very first god Wall shoot, which bravo. We're glad that you finally moved away from the Millard. Yeah. Yeah, although she shooting mallards is a lot of fun, I will say that. But yeah, we did have a good shoot on the first day, had a great hunt second day. And uh, anyway, I think we're going to get out there in the morning to before you guys head out. Yeah, we'll talk more about our We'll talk more about our hunt. How long you've been a commissioner, Emory, This is my third year, so it's a seven year term. It is seven year term into seven year term, that's right. And I served with six other commissioners from around the state. Yeah, and one non voting commissioner who is always the head of the Biology and Zoology Department for the University of Arkansas, doctor Stephen Bouprey. Got to get him a shout out snake man and try he is snake man. Yeah, snake man. Um, tell me describe how the commission works, like, do most states have a pointed commission? Do we know that? In your next The next guest I'm gonna introduce is Austin Booth, the director of the Game's Fish most states, but that is a secret. I'm not gonna tell you that until later. Well, I couldn't tell you exactly the number, but I do know. Uh, there's many states were actually, So let me go back to what the commission does. Essentially, where a governing body who oversees the rules and regulation for all fish and wildlife in the state of Arkansas. So a lot of responsibility on our shoulders. And in other states. I do know that some are still their rules and regulations are controlled by the legislature, correct Austin. But for the most part, each state has their fish and wildlife agencies who determine that. And so tell me, tell me what what would you say? Your main job is as a commissioner hearing, hearing from the public, listening to the public, balancing science and public opinion in order to make the best decisions possible for our sportsmen and women throughout the state to Arkansas, but primarily making regulations. Yes, well, and uh more than that, approving budget approvals. For instance, we just this last month approved for a boat ramp to be put in down in South Arkansas. So several of the things that we do in regards to you know, not just fish and wildlife, but infrastructure throughout the state. Yeah, awesome. Um, who are your favorite? Uh? I'm kidding, I can't favorite. I was gonna ask some awkward questions, are you gonna were you gonna ask who would be like my ideal dinner party or something something like that. But I was gonna ask who your other favorite commissioners were. But this was a joke all of them. We have a really great group of commissioners were we're all friends, we all work great together, and I feel really really lucky to to serve on this panel with the group that we're that we have. Yeah, you know, it is interesting. And I'm not an expert on government, nor an expert on the way other state agencies work, but there are there are government structure, state government structures where the legislature votes for wildlife regulations and laws, okay, And so that to me is a problem because then whether our dear season is this date to this date, or are bear season is this to this all of a sudden becomes a literal political issue that you vote on to the general public. And so people start to run on campaigns about wildlife, just like the New Jersey governor did when he said in a I mean it was like a this is part of my campaign platform. Did he get rid of bear season? Yeah? He did. He said We're gonna shut down bear hunting in New Jersey and he did it. And so because every and I said this in the podcast, any type of government, somebody's going to be have some reason why, you know, they don't like it. And I take it he had never been bear hunting. Yeah, no, no, no point being how being a commission seven people or eight people that are making wildlife decisions, it's usually really good. I mean, because these people are typically going to be people that are involved in wildlife management. And I would rather entrust that kind of stuff to seven people that have some founding in the state rather than the general public. So that's just my two bits on state government. Because my buddies up in Michigan, so we worked pretty closely in UH with Bear Hunting magazine, with the Wisconsin Bear Hunters Association and the Michigan Bear Hunters Association. Super strong state agencies that raise tons of money and basically they spend their life fighting anti hunting legislation and and that is and it's because they have that type of government that and so anyway, it's just a fight. So love it. And one of the many things that we have going for us in Arkansas is UH we have a great legislature. They strongly support the outdoors. They understand the economic benefit to Arkansas that you know, tourism brings all the out of state hunters coming here, out of state anglers. They know their communities just as well as we do, and they understand how in the natural state outdoors is is just in our veins, and having a commission that makes those decisions basically insulates us from outside political influence outside the state coming into the state. And so it's not so much that we have a problem with the legislature here, but it understood it kind of insulates us from out of state influence. And uh, couldn't be happier with the legislation that we have. I agree with that, Austin. Actually there's several legislative legislators who are hunters and anglers too, but they're not proud of I was within this Afrinat did you introduce that fund? Man? Hey, you you keep your chair, Butty, we we take twenty minutes on introductions. Okay, I'm not like you're not president yet. Okay, Okay, friendly reminder, Max would do that. You're such a nice guy. Is going to be left out. Wait till I get to this guy to Anne Marie's left, Austin, both the director of the Arkansas Games. You're like a regular of the burglaries. Now if regular means to then you're right. Good to have you man, Great to have you now. If I get crocs, will create from regular to emeritus. No place to go. But I feel like I need to go change into crocs. Well, I'm embarrassed. If my family was here, if my wife was here, I couldn't wear these. She don't like Well, I might have to defend her and you can't. She loves him, right, Yeah, you just look. I mean, if if let's say, something goes wrong between me and Austin, you know, and we go fist to cuff, he's gonna beat me to the ground because for a couple of reasons. I'm gonna go ahead and say it is the other reason the knuckle dragging marine, because I've heard that before. You know, I'm pretty worry. But you know, Austin, you've been duck hunting a lot, though I have. You have some good, good duck hunts. I've been on some great hunts this year. Yeah, we've got a lot of ducks in the state right now. It's here. Yes, Uh, we're loaded full with hunters, loaded full with ducks. Still down for the long term average, but duck hunters or ducks, ducks, ducks compared to where we were last month, a whole lot of ducks in the state right now. We just learned we were Sean and I were in a boat with Luke Naylor a couple of days ago, and he was describing to us the aerial counting. Yes. I just turned to Luke and I said, how many Mallard ducks are in Arkansas right now? And he just spouted off. I think he said five and thirty thousand five I've hunned thirty two thousand and then and I said, okay, how do you know that? And he described to us how they how they bring a cauldron and an airplane and they sprinkle like a weird concoction of of like guard blood and anti freeze, and just like, no, I don't know, Like, man, this is no there there. Can you describe how they count those? Do you know? It was? It was transsex where they fly random lines across the delta and uh, they get a count on that line and then extrapolate out over those different transsex over the square mileage of the delta. How many ducks that would be? That's amazing. And I asked him, I said, how how confident are you in that number? And he may have been joking, but he said, plus or minds a hundred fifty, but I don't. I don't think he was joking. Maybe he was, but he was Yeah. Yeah, so that's pretty amazing. Do other states do other states do? Like? Are we doing weekly counts during duck season? No, we do a handful throughout the season, but they're not weekly. Um and uh no, it's based on the splits. But there are other states that do them. But obviously this is Arkansas. We do it. We do it best for sure. It's uh, entirely based on places that are kind of epicenters. Right state would the Illinois the Illinois River Valley, I believe it gets flown every week. Um, the Missouri River in South Dakota gets from North Dakota week Dakota as well weekly. Um, just kind of depends where you're at. But places that are I guess historic migration routes and also epicenters of water Fowler's typically get flown. Yeah, that's that's really neat. To Austin's left, Brent reeves chick one and Neel like, good, good to have you brand. So Brent drove down from where he lives. So we are I haven't said where. I did say where we're at. We're in we're in Southeast Arkansas, and of Delta. I said we were at Amrie's family duck camp, which is true, but that is located in southeast Arkansas near Stuttguard. Yeah, stuck Guard, the duck capital of the world. Stuttgard close to where actually Brent used to used to hunt quite a minute just up the road. Yeah. Yeah, so you hunted ten fifteen miles from stutt Guard. Oh no, red ailes from here is probably what is it eight miles? Man miles? Yeah, yeah, not far hunting the same ducks, it looks I'm a question for Brent, just so I can have a baseline for your formal attire. You're wearing crocs this time. The last render, you had a zip tie on your overalls. Have you upgraded to a button? The button? This is a button. I was wearing those yesterday and I thought, Man, I'm glad they didn't come out in the rotation tomorrow. Do you have to cut off the zip tie every time? Oh? No, it's all the side, Okay, gotcha, Yeah, no, it's zip time. We were talking the other day a friend of mine. I don't know if I said this in the last render or not, but a friend of mine who I met during bear bating season last year. Corey Eisenhower brought me a mess of squirrels and I was talking to him on the phone. I hang up the phone and Alexis says, what what were you saying? I said, well, my friend Corey is gonna bring me some some squirrels. She said, did you say he was gonna bring you a mess of squirrels? My wife from Texas? I said, yeah, my friend Corey is bringing me a mess of squirrel She said, I swear, It's like I've been living on an eleven year episode of he Hall with no commercial. Sometimes she wonders how she got to where she's at. Every time I see her, I wonder how she got because she's such a wonderful woman. She has a taste for roughness. Oh my goodness, Sean, walk us through our our waterfowl hunts and let let me say, let me just tell people, I have been immersed into the Arkansas waterfowl world for the last a month and a half, more than any time in my entire life. Okay, I've quickly become very opinionated, very informed, very knowledgeable, and like all my other waterfowl friends, pretty much know what to do, very good duck color at the best. No, no, I have. Um, it's kind of interesting how this all came about, but it was I was bound to end up in Arkansas duck hunting just because it's I mean, I've lived so close to my whole life and it just wasn't something that we did, didn't have any connections here, and then to come here and to experience it, and more than just experience it, to see the culture of it. And then it's one thing to hear from somebody from Stuck Guard or somebody from down here like you three, how cool it is and the culture here. The real data point that I listened to that was like, hey, these folks ain't lying with Sean Weaver, who has been like Clay, this is the place for waterfowl culture. Even last summer when we started planning doing a hunt together, it kind of blew my mind a little bit. I was like, you live in Arkansas. We've got to get you into the Delta and do some duck hunting. We have to. And yeah, so this this week's hunts have been before we before we go there. So we went into Stuck Guarden, we went to Max's Prairie Wings, which is an event all of its own. Austin's eyes are rolling in the back of Max. Okay, Max tell us about going to Max's Prairie Wings. So Ever since I started water for hunting, we didn't have any like great waterfall stores up in North Dakota, and me and my dad, I was shopped on Max's Prayer Wings and this was ten named after the Max M A C K S and M A X. But yeah, anyway, so like growing up, me and my dad would always shop online at Max Perry Wings and I was so such a big fan of it because like every time a Max package showed up, I was like, I don't know what that's gonna be. It's gonna be decoys. So when we're up in the parking lot we're walking in, you were like, I've been waiting fifteen years for Yeah, he disappeared in the store. We didn't find him for like walked down every single while when we when I was like, I think all you bought was chapstick, though every dull. When I said it's time to go, he goes. I have not walked down every aisle yet. I was like, Okay, it was fun. Max brought the energy that I needed when I walked into Max. But so we went there and you know, there's just kind of a waterfowl episode, are you walking? Everybody's there all water Fowler's you know, you just you just kind of realize you're in this like hub of seriousness for this thing. Well, then we drive down the street just within sight to go see Jimbo ron Quest. Yeah, we actually had to get on the two lane road and back in, but yes, it's like right there. They told me we're gonna go by Jimbo shop. And I had only met him just un couple of days, but we were at a duck camp and they said we're gonna go to a shop. I am envisioning a wood shop where people make duck calls, like a small metal building maybe with a couple of yeah, maybe some ELPs, you know, some duck mounts maybe and a little bit of this and that. Man, it is a straight up like a beautiful facility, very I mean, the architecture of it's super cool. And it's the R and T World headquarters and you go in there and there's a I don't know if it's a restaurant, but there's a bar there and they were just guys hanging out. I mean, just crowded with people. Why didn't know anything like that existed? Like what I wanted to have was like the squirrel and Coon Club up in northwest Arkansas where everybody came in. I don't I just don't think we're as cool as the waterfow guys. But so I say all that to say, there's so much built down here around this culture, which is so cool. But I would come to your squirrel club, you'd come up there. I went, I'm here. I'm a squirrel hunter. Now you are and a squirrel hunter. Yeah, we went squirrel hunting the second day. Yeah, before before you get to the ducks, we got to talk about the squirrels priority. I think it. I think we'll come back to the squirrel about surel tell us about our tell us about our hunts, what about stuck? I think it is worth mentioning with the Max and R and T that it also demonstrated how small the waterfowl community can get and how you can be just one person to removed from pretty much everybody. Because we ran into several friends and and like, you know, someone that Max has known since he was a little kid um in R and T shop and I ran into a friend in Max and it just it gets small quick. But now our our hunts, you know, we started off here on Anne Marie's, which is was great, and kicked it off with a cypress hunt, which alone was like worth the big big reservoir basically a man made like that had big big cypress trees scattered all throughout it. Yep. And it was a god wall hole, yes, it was. You know what we gad wald Clay. So what we did, he had to we had to diversify his his duck harvest. He joke was that I had only killed Mallard's, which is a true store. I had only killed Millard's my whole waterfowl career, how days you know, and club at West Fork, Arkansas. Yeah, and so we killed, uh, we killed several goad walls, which broke my streak of Mallards. And so you know, the joke became that they gadballed me, because we know the Mallard is the king that's been established. But it was a great, it was. It was super fun. It actually was one of my well it's better than the rice hunt, but it was fun. I'd like to go back there. It was fun. What I liked about that hunt. It was basically Clay and I in one cluster of trees, the other Amory and Sean and the other camera guy in another cluster of trees, and it was kind of like Clay and I versus them, and we would shoot the ducks on left side. They would shoot the ducks on the right side. But it was just so much fun just to gab back and forth and just overall great time, which is pretty good. They learned a few things. Max, give me give me a quick estimate on his shale to duck ratio. I will say Clay likes to shoot. It doesn't matter if they're at fifteen yards or fifty yards. I have to plays on her for a minute here though, Are you wearing you got a double? I was getting to that point. Pair come in on the left side and dumped them both. Yeah, guess what we said, Sean. Clay turned over and he's like, did you guys shoot? I was like, why did those ducks fall so quick? Sean? Are you calling a double? Two ducks with two shots or two ducks with yaho for two Yeah, it does take a little bit of time. To understand when you're sky busting and when you're not. And that is still a little unclear to me. The very first shot of the day I think was Clay trying to skybust a duck. Is that right I'm trying to do I will I will say, yeah, that is correct. I will say I appreciate that. When Clay doesn't hit a duck, he turns to me and says, that was that sky bus? Was that too far? Was that too far? I not have done that, ye, which I respect that because I was trying to learn. Sure. Yeah, it's not like he's just willing Nelly burning boxes of shells. I just don't like to let opportunities slip through your fingers. Man. We really really threw Clay off though, Sean. When we started our gad Wall duck calls, he was like, why are you guys just going meet me? Oh? He got on me. He goes, that's not how my boys, So that's not how me and Jim called. Yeah, I'm not a fan of the goad Wall. They just got no hard in their call. You know, the mall. It's like they're stuck in traffic and in the in the in the gadwalls. Like, that's about what they sound like. I was like, I was like, Sean, you're never gonna call it god while with that trust me, I mean, you've never done Okay, So we have the gadwall. Shoot, maybe all let Amory tell about the next the next time at what y'all call them the Mayor's Field? Yeah, the Mayor's Field, Yeah, because it is h it's a field located across the street from the self proclaim mayor of this area's house. So yeah, pretty straightforward. Yeah, yeah, we could so pretty pretty straightforward on our on our naming of our duck holes. But uh yeah, we hunted hunted into rice field very very windy day. We had a north wind that was what like twenty miles per hour that leaves I mean, yeah, it was super duper windy. And we have a blind there on the corner. But I don't always like to hunt out of a blind. I feel like sometimes they can flare off of it. So actually we went about a hundred and fifty words west of where that blind is and set up all behind the trees were sitting on the ground, um and and we knew we knew there were a bunch of ducks in there, but we did. We scouted the day before we had seen just just mallards just piling in there. Yeah, they wanted in their backs. We got a beautiful watch the night before. It was a good scout. Yeah, so go in, uh, have our shoot, and we're done by nine o'clock. Had a even a futile light in the hole. So that was that was really cool. I think A cool thing to mention there is that we were hunting them like turkeys, sitting under the base of a tree, sitting on sitting on a little pad. Yeah. Yeah, it was fun um calling like that. We're calling in a lot of pairs. It wasn't like big groups mallards. Well, it's so late in the season that they are you know, paired up right now, so that's typically how you're going to see them. Yeah. So I don't think I scout busted any on that hunt. Now. They came right and they flowed it in. Did you shoot? Yeah? And and and the teal killed my limit of allars and the teal didn't you? Yeah? And the teal the teal shot was not something just to skip over, but what And so the third day we went to about meda ye, tell us about that, Shan, what is I don't know. Well, I think it's I think it's been in Shawn's dreams since he was a little boy, because he was all googly eyed from the moment that we stepped foot into the parking lot. Oh yeah, he's like Max at Prairie Wings, Max at his own store. Yeah. When you when you think of Arkansas duck hunting, obviously you think about flooded green timber. And when you think about places to hunt in Arkansas, you think about me to you do? I mean, ultimately, the reason a place like Stuck Guard has its reputation is places like by Meta And uh yeah, I've wanted to hunt there a long long time. It was really really excited to make it happen, was excited to just get to be out there. But ultimately the third day was pretty rough as far as hunting. Tell us, just give us a little rundown on the first day with your boat and stuff. Okay, yeah, goodness, Well, anyone that if you follow my Instagram and ultimately once you see duck lore come out, you'll find that I've had boat problems beyond all possibility this year. I mean it's been unbelievable. November, boat motor took a pretty much catastrophic failure. It took well over a month to get fixed. And then thought it was fixed. Had it run good for about a week maybe Max, Yeah, like I mean really it would seem as though and by me to this week we had another catastrophic failure. Went to go turn out of the chain, flooded tim or in the heat of the moment of trying to get back to where we're going, trying to be ye, running running up a cut. We're we've been bumping people out. No no, no, no, no no no. I was wearing actual boots, bully A few people know that's not true, that didn't happen. But so yeah, we're running up a channel and uh, we're going to cut out of it and shuts off. Go to turn the key and uh nothing like literally no power switched batteries. Do a computer reset TONI by motor and uh, she's toast. She's toast. So luckily we had Amory's boat out there, the Sea Witch and the Flying Squirrel. The flying squirrel to see which trying to think sean salvation would be a good and I gave and recent advice on naming stuff. You never want to name anything with more than two syllables, which made it complicated. Actually, you know, one syllable is better, but for a boat you can go to But anyway, because there was a couple that were thrown in and I was doing my syllable tests and I was like, no, that's not gonna stick, but you can name it that. It's not gonna stick. Gotta be two syllables, one or two syllables. Do you know what bullet stands for? Boat stands? No, bust out another thousand, that's not the only Yeah. At this point, I've got like four boats. And so the short version of this story is we we went ahead and just parked the boats and we were close enough to our hole that we walked into where we were going to hunt. And uh, and we didn't kill a duck that morning. So we had a buy me to and did not kill a duck. Saw a lot of ducks. Had had two ducks flying to the hole early and I could have taken shots on, but I fell like they're irresponsible, even though they're well within shooting range. It's just kind of low light. I had just loaded my gun. I guess I should have been more ready, but it felt like I just didn't. I felt like I was shooting into the abyss because down there in that green timber, it's dark in there. And when they hit the water, they just disappeared. They're all sudden, is not They're They're just part of the black, even though you know, even though it's leg and uh. And then when that happens right at legal shooting, like you think this is gonna happen a lot more, you know, you don't really take a chance. And then we had the whole day and I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you guys something about water fowlers that you may not even know about yourself. Because this bird comes in and uh, I mean he just flies right over the top of me, but above the canopy. I shoot at the bird twice boom boom, used two of my fifteen shells that I could have a boy meeting, so had thirteen left then and missed the bird. And then I go, did that sky bust that bird shot? And he was like absolutely and he was like Clay, that was a working bird, Okay. So it was a total misjudgment. I mean, I just thought this is my chance. There's just too chance. I shot at this bird above the canopy, missed it. Austin, this is what all water fellers do. You've done it. I mean, I just I guarantee you all of you've done it, prints done it. I don't know. The one bird that you sky bust is the one that you were gonna kill, even though a hundred and fifty other birds had done the exact same thing and didn't land the decos because Seawan's like that bird was working. Here's what's bad when that happens is when you've got somebody in party that does that. Then there's actually or one duck comes in by itself and somebody throws up and shoots, and there's right behind it, nine behind it, straight up. That's that is hard to understand when you're supposed to shooting. Oh yeah, it's terrible. It's very nuanced, and it's all about how you feel and what you are used to watching those birds do. And it changes day to day because some days you get that one or two here or there that do pop in and finish, and it's like that's all we're gonna get. The big flocks aren't gonna do it on certain days and so you gotta take those singles and pairs, and then there's other days where like your best strategy, if the birds are really working, really doing it, letting those singles or pairs peel out, keep moving land whatever, and let the back end keep finishing. But it all just changes on the day to day. You got a new guy with you, you better, you better, I mean, yeah, yeah, I need a short rope and stuff like that. Well like last week and we were hunt hunting the White River, had n't working in the timber for a little bit, but then eight o'clock rolls around. We're shooting them up on the dip, so not going full clay nucum and shooting them above the trees, but I mean on the ship, like they started to duck in but don't fully commit. And I had kind of a slottle morning, but killed six hours in the group and and then went to moistle unit that afternoon, and uh, shouldn't shoot him in the equal So only just a couple of miles from each other, but at different time of day. You know, calendar a year, it changes. So the second day and we can we can tell this story pretty quick. The second day we went back to buy me to I had to, Yeah, I had to. So we we walk in. It took us a while. We went to walking area, walked in, tried to find water, made a couple, made a big loop because we didn't find water, schools we thought we would. My legs are sore right now. Yeah, we were. I was trying to convince and bring less stuff. He wouldn't listen. And then but we finally find water and we get back in there. We found a nice hole where in a whole means usually where timbers fallen over. I wouldn't have known that, Like, why is there holes in timber? What's that mean? Usually where a tree has fallen over and there's an opening of the canopy with ducks and get down. They're wanting to get in these these these went through. Yeah, and basically we you know, called a few birds, nothing serious at all, and then we're done, like we're we decided we're leaving. And that's where you can tell me what happened. Well, I will say that that we walked around in that area until we found where we kind of jumped some birds and saw some birds works too, So there was birds kind of in that area and we're seeing something close ish, but nothing really like one to come decoy and and check out what's going on. Dead, calm and cloudy, which is like worst case scenario for duck hunting, especially in the timber especially and uh Morell was low. Yeah, I was. I was kind of at that point where, like acts, I was kind of at that point where it's like, you know what, it just isn't in the cards. Let's let's go home. I'll have to come back and get that Mallard. And it must have been our splashing as we turned to walk out, and feet kicking and we're just talking. I mean we're talking like normal voices and no one behind a tree or anything pulling a jet sled guns on the shoulder and Drake Mallard got too close, so he What happened, Austin is that we just kind of see some birds at the corner of the eye and they're kind of cutting up a little bit. But there Sean says they were in the canopy. They weren't. They were they were. He was shot and missed. It would have been sky busting. I'm gonna defend myself. Okay, they were Let's say they were in the top of the canopy. I I learned my lesson, though I did. I'll let you shoot first, because I just was like, are we shooting these ducks or not? Because I'm not gonna be the one that's gonna skybusting. So I had the gun up and when I heard you shot, I just unloaded. Shot three times and you you clipped one. Yeah, I clipped him. Broke, broke his wing, fell forty yards away, and he's off to the races. Yeah. Yeah. When I saw it, it it hit the water and just started swimming at man, I was gonna tackle it if it took it. I took off a run and as fast as I could after that duck. It was. It was anything but what like I guess I would consider, you know, success on a normal hunt, right, Like I I go just like any duck hunter does, but I want him fluttering hanging over deepoys. But ultimately I got that that one mount. Now now it's kind of like, uh, it's gonna have to be a little bit of a personal vendetta deal to come back and learn some stuff about this place, because it's unbelievable that the scale of it, it's hard to comprehend when you look at it on a map, you can go, oh, you know, that's ten miles there or whatever the heck it is. You know, but when you get out in that timber and realize how far two d yards or three hundred yards is in that kind of environment, whereas two hundred three yards in in South Dakota on a on a lake, or you know, even a mile on a lake in South Dakota, like ducks flare from a mile, like from gunshots and whatever else out here, you can have so many groups of hunters stuffed in a mile and like you have no clue what's going on a mile away, not a darn clue. And I can see how guys spend their whole lives learning that timber, I mean really like picking it apart acres. And as a camera guy on that hunt, I see everything in a whole different perspective. You guys were seen in as duck hunting, and I was sitting back here like this feels like a big game hunt. Like everyone was talking quiet, moving slow, and it was yeah, pretty much a spot in stock and like we said, like we just need to get that one mallard. And after the previous or the day before, all the troubles and getting skunked. It was like, we all want that, Mallard. We all have one goal and it's that Mallard. Yeah. That that was the things we could have gone. We could have stayed here and probably killed a lot of ducks. We went back. I wanted to stay here just for the record. Now, hey, that's a good place to start talking about this last podcast we talked about these green tree reservoirs really dug in deep Austin. Did we cover it? If somebody listened to that podcast, would they come away with the info that you feel like they would need to understand the problem, understand what's gonna be done, understand the challenges. Yes, yes, Yeah, there's a lot to it. It's uh or what would you like to even add to it or expound on? Like if you were listening to You're like, man, I'd like to talk more about that. Well, this render is appropriate for it because I mean, obviously these guys heard the first heard the first beer grease, than heard the second render. But now here seeing by me, to smelling by me, to watching the sunlight and the sunrise come through the trees, having the boat right in y'all understand it? And it's almost Arkansas spiritual connection to those red oaks with water on them and green heads coming through them. Having you guys here to talk about it first and then to see it, I think the most powerful connection, because it's not just a resource that we're conserving. It's something that's really important to the character of our state. If the Second Beer Grease was incomplete in any way, it's hearing these guys talk about what they've seen that's kind of made it complete. It was interesting being out there to see a lot of dead timber, and you know, I have no frame of reference, so I might have just gone out there and just been like, well, this is just what it looks like. One day we were there with somebody who had been there a lot, and he was like, man, he said, look at all these leaning trees. And I just thought leaning trees were normal, but he was like, those leaning trees are an indication of a root system that is compromised, and those trees aren't supposed to be leaning like that. And you just look through this forest and there's a lot of leaning trees, a lot of dead trees, and um, so I mean, you know the thing is real, you know. Yeah, Well, and we use the analogy wet feet a lot talking about the trees roots. Now that has limited persuasion with two men wearing crocs right now petive wet feet, not men and crocs. But anyways, um no, um, you know y'all saw all the boating, all the boating canals, all the dishes we have in there. Well due to increased rainfall this October November was the first time in three years that has been drying for for us to get in there, just to clean out those ditches, clean out the canals three years. Um. So we've got some challenges on our hands, and it's an important part of the state that's at risk. Uh. But we're gonna do what we can when we can. Yeah, A Marie, what do you think any anything, What what stood out to you and what we discussed or or or anything you'd like to add to it. I mean I think that, uh, our director Austin Booth put it put it all very well that, Um, it's an important part of our character here in Arkansas, having these green tree reservoirs. I mean, you don't get anything like it. It's funny because Sean and I were talking earlier, it's crazy that eight hours north of here, ducks land in dry fields and then you get down here and they're landing in water in yeah, and they're flying through they're flying through trees and landing in water. It's just unbelievable. So it's a big part of yes, our our state, our heritage, UM, the whole flyway in general, something that we can't stand to lose, and we have to do whatever we whatever it takes, and whatever is within our control. Two. I thought that was a good point that Austin made on the on the on the podcast, was that there's lots of reasons why. I mean, a system this complex, it's not just one. It's usually not just one issue. It's usually multiple things. And there's only so many things that you can cleanly touch and manipulate. There's some things that are just there. There's you know, there's issues with UM just other stuff that's hard to manage. So that point being, this is what we can do, this is what we're gonna do. There's other more longer term issues that we're gonna go with. You know. You know what Luke Naylor said that in your last podcast, he said wildlife management is a mixture of science and art all goes hand in hand. And if I if I could just add one thing to what I thought was, Um, I don't know. Poignant about the last podcast was that you have you know Bobby our chairman, who's talking about a generation prior to him, right the Rex Hancock here, so he's talking about the generation before him and Marie and I, you know, we're looking to Bobby his a generation before us, and we're making decisions about the generation after us right now, Uh, probably the generation after. Yeah. So it's just one snapshot of what you know duck hunting in Arkansas is it spans four generations just in the context of one decision, and that's what it means the state and that's why it's a good story to tell. But also wanted to be at it too for the long term because that's what it takes. Bobby talked about Rex Hancock in what he did up at the Cache River, and you know, I obviously heard the name Rex Hancock before, but I didn't know the whole story, and so that was really educational for me to hear, and honestly, uh really rings a bell with what we're going through right now and the decisions that we're having to make you know, Luke brought up that he introduced the phrase to me that I wouldn't have known humans dimension research, which I had to look that up. He said it in the podcast and I just shook my head like I knew what he was talking about. I went back home and look up what that meant. And humans dimension research is where is a field of study, academic study where we people try to understand how humans value natural resources. And so like talking about Rex Hancock and the multiple interests that went into the Cache River, I mean there was that was a big that was a big amount of energy being put into channelizing the cash. Mean that was the economy of Arkansas would have been at stakes. So there would have been farmers that would have been like, hey, we want barges running up and down the cash to take our crops to to market. There there would have been all this stuff. But somebody had to stand up for for wildlife, for wild places, for a way of life, and had to really like put some teeth into it, you know. And it was interesting that humans dimension research just that everybody values the land differently. When we toured a farm this week where the sky had basically just it was like I described it, it it was like Jurassic Park, but for ducks, just in terms of like all the things that they were doing, and we were driving through seeing ducks and there was it was just an incredible place. And I had the thought while we were there, like he's trying to turn this place back into a wetland essentially for ducks. Most most of the world is going the other direction like a wet and is not valuable to you unless you value waterfowl. So just the whole idea of that, when people look at a piece of land, nobody's thinking the same thing, why that land has value and how it should be used. And that's why we have to have these strong, strong opinions, strong science, strong conviction, perseverance, dedication. There's just a lot that goes into saving wildlife in It's true, yeah, it is, you know, on that note, talking about Rex Hancocks specifically, it was interesting bit for me in the podcast where it's mentioned how he's like this ordinary guy that you know, fights for this like fundamental ecological component in the area when you look at when you look at waterfowl over the last hundred years, you see this a lot where relatively speaking, nobody's so to speak, just average guys come along and impact great, great things to the resource. You know, Ding Darling wasn't a nobody, but now he's like considered the you know, father of the National Wildlife Refuge System. And ultimately he was a cartoonist that was like making fun of politics and ends up creating you know, okay, huge portion of the cash. It's National Wildlife Refuge. You know, Ding Darling's father, the National Wildlife Refuge System. And you have these guys that just come along like see this kind of like this is the hill I'll die on moment of their life of like they know it takes only one man, but it's it's one person sees there's fundamentally something wrong and they have to stand, you know, for what they believe. And and we owe those those singular people, we owe them a lot. Mr Bobby said he couldn't imagine this part of Arkansas if the whole ash River had been channelized, like how much it would have changed the flyaway, how much it would have changed the system. And just so yeah, those things are I've personally seen part of the stretch that was before it kind of got stopped. There's you know, small stretch of the cash it was, and it's uh, it like instantly makes you disheartened when you look at it, You're like, oh, this is what it would all been. It's a it's a line. You know. You know, so much of the last hundred and fifty years in this country we were trying to we're trying to get out of this place being a wilderness, you know, a place that was uninhabitable. I mean, like we talked about in the first one about how much of Arkansas literally would have been uninhabitable, I mean because of flooding. And then you know, so man has always been in this in this you know, struggle to make nature more consistent and more manageable. And uh, but some of this waterfowl stuff, we're one we need to go back the other direction. So anytime you're going against the current of kind of the modern trends, you know, it's it can be an uphill battle. John, what stood out anything stand out to you in the podcast? There's so many things. Um, all the water Fowler's have been like, Clay, this is the best Burgeries podcast you've ever done, And of course it goes love water Fowler. It was a great podcast. Very informational, entertaining, educational, the whole the whole band, maybe a little bit by us. I know a few people on there. Just a minute ago Anne Marie had mentioned the eight hours north of here ducks feeding in dry fields. Then here they're being in the timber. It really shows how well one how these birds adapt as they travel down the flyway and back up the flyway. But to also like how important it is to understand the whole system from start to finish. Yeah, you know, as I was producing this podcast the and just gathering information, the evidence is so clear of what needs to be done, it was almost like, well, this is a no brainer. There's no story here because this is what needs to be done. What is what's the challenge? Austin like why why? Yeah, what could what could make it fail? Well, I'm very sympathetic to that position because everybody in Arkansas, in this part of the state any ways, they live three hundred and five days a year waiting for the other sixty. That's not just duck hunters. That's that's gas stations, that's grocery stores, that's beds and breakfasts, that's restaurants, and so to look at a resource and think it's it's dying. There's a whole lot of reasons that you that you don't want to believe that. We're also not looking at kind of like what we talked about earlier. We don't we don't have the luxury of like single cause problems. It's really easy to sit here in two thousand twenty two and be like, yeah, this is a no brainer. But you go back five years ago, you go back teen years ago, fifteen twenty, twenty years ago, We've learned a great deal about red oak dormancy, learned a great deal about what standing water versus sheet flow does the trees. We've had a immense increase in the rainfall that we get. So we're at a luxury right here and right now of information that I'm that I'm not willing to look back on the years prior and fault guys for for not having and for fault then for not believing like, oh, this is gonna get better, This is gonna get better. You know, the drainage will be better, we won't get as much rain next year. But looking forward to what could make this all not work out, It's gonna come down to whether it's dry enough. When we need it to be dry to put the work in, and whether we have public support for the forest management and for the infrastructure that we need to put in. So how would public support, how would that like, what would some what would a group of people do that would cause that not to work. I'm just trying to understand that. Well, yeah, that's just raise caine that it just causes problems for us to do it. You know, for so many years people were used to, Okay, Balmada or hurricane, you know, opening weekend a duck season, there's going to be water in there, sticking with tradition. And now we can't guarantee that because we never know what the weather is gonna gonna hold for us, and that's something that's really difficult to grasp. That's the last thing. I know. It was said last time that none of us, you know, want that to happen. This is you know, we wish that we were not in this situation, but we are, and we have to adapt and change and do do what is necessary to save the resource. I think that Mother Nature's answer in systems is an answer to variability, and that really the only constant in life is change. The things change and you just can't deny that this has changed. You can't deny that the prairie pothole region has changed. You can't deny that there's all these man made factors, whether it's power plants or the spread of corn farther west and farther north, and changes of water quality, and go down the line of all the things that affect a duck, and all those things are happening in synchronization. While also then, like you throw the cherry on top, that you have a dying force, like to be frank, like there's a lot already going against Arkansas with those other things I mentioned. When when you start looking at Lake Socakawea in North Dakota last year on the Missouri River, a hundred some mile long reservoir didn't freeze till almost February, held a lot of ducks longer. Complex but complex. It's a very complex issue. But to come back to your point, like there's things you can an altar and you can change. Can I say something? I said something in a long time, So raise your hand proper, Max, And I endorsed this message before I listened to this podcast. I'll be honest with you, I didn't know there's a problem down here, and maybe that's me being out of state and not knowing about other state issues. Maybe that's just me having a closed mind and just worried about my own state, or just simply not listening to what people had to say. But I listened to the podcast and I was like, there's no way that's happened. No way, because like I I was at Clay Full Drama. I I just always thought this great, awesome area was always gonna stay great, and spending two days in the area, it was just like, yeah, I can definitely see the problem. I can definitely see the issues, and I think people need to open their ears and just work. Like Sean said, worry about the whole dang flyway from the breeding grounds all the way to the winter wintering grounds. So I'd had two things to that Max, y'all went to buy Meta and from a forest management perspective, in a public opportunity perspective, the goal with Biomeda is to keep it from becoming like other wildlife management areas that we have. So if y'all were in the woods and y'all had somebody pointing out, you know, dead or irreversibly dying red oaks with extreme basil swelling at Bio Meta. We can take it to some other places that are making six sick, just sick to your stuffing. I'm sure we're dying from the inside out. It's crazy, it's unbelievable. But if that's the rain cloud, that silver lining is like. You know, we announced some of our water level management changes on September three of of feedback has been fantastic. I never ever would have thought that we have the support that we've gotten since then because people are invested in the resource. We have a very unified commission. The hunters are starting to see the change in the resource. You know, we have lots of public meetings this summer trying to get people out in the woods when there's leaves on the trees to see what the trees look like in the summer when they're dead, uh or irreversibly dying. We're in a really good place right now as a state to recognize the problem that we've been talking about for a long time, but now one that we're ready to move out one. You know, I think I think this whole issue is just making basically making hard decisions for conservation in wildlife and habitat is something that is going to happen in more places than just waterfowl. I mean, it's just undeniable that something is happening with historic patterns of climate like weather has been wild, waterfall has been every like, this place is changing and and you know, whether it's just a little blip, I don't know, but in our in my lifetime, this place is changing. And I'm not saying this place hasn't. I'm talking about Planet Earth. Yeah, it's changing. So I think what you guys are facing, what State of Arkansas is facing, about making significant changes in the way we manage habitat that's gonna affect people is something that's gonna have to happen in the future. So I'd like to think that these decisions will be made maybe easier over time, as precedence is set for Hey, we just gotta suck it up, I mean, you know, I mean, we we have lived in the glory days of some species of wildlife in North America, and we're in the glory days of some of them right now. But there's gonna become there's you just can't get too used to something, you know, the earth, everything goes in cycles. It is. And I think some of the few that would be detractors, like talked about in the podcast, are aware of my cowboy boots file me to are are people that that saw the real, true bona fide glory days of Arkansas. You know, Arkansas's highest record dot harvest was two thousand one or to where it was like it was one million mallards right now, one million ducks harvested, one million mallards plus you know, another million ducks on top of that. That's in There's no state that ever ever has and ever you know, for a long time probably ever come anywhere near that. Again, things are just changing, and that's that's everywhere, right, Like we've got this hunter problem overall, like less waterfowl hunters as well, less people contributing to the resource. And and and I think we just need that. I guess that moment of uh, it's there, Yeah, it is there, it's there. Tell me what you mean by that awesome? Well, you know Amory will know what I mean, and so well Brent. But you know, I'm thirty five. I'm gonna say, Hell, Amory is that she's under alright? Alright, there we go. Uh And we're like at this like generational point in water fowling, where as our Kansans were like still young in the population group, but we're old enough to remember duck hunting what it was like even in the nineties, but we're young enough to like really see what it is now. And then behind us is this group of publicly and water fowlers, and they think that they're going out and having a great hunt because they're killing a wood duck limit. And there's nothing wrong with killing a wood duck limit. But if if we're like trying to benchmark the long term hunting quality of what an Arkansas g t R is, I'm glad you killed the limit of wood ducks, but that ain't anybody. And there's there's a whole lot more there's that's right, and and and like as that generation of Arkansas water fowlers grows, they're like starting to see, like, hey, what I've heard about about buying me the Hurricane Black River, you know, Black Swamp, uh, you know all these like icon and duck hunting places. Like there's something that's not here, and I want to fix it because I don't have it now. But I understand that I'm young enough for if we make a commitment now as our Kansas that maybe I'll be able to enjoy it when I'm fifty or sixty. And young people impact change. Yeah, like young people change. And because they got that that Instagram and that snapchat got that fire and you know, we did four we did four public meetings about our water level changes this year that we say the average age um of our publicly and water flowers are between two And that's pretty wild. That's pretty young. That's kind of new generation Skybusters. You're an old man skybuster, Clay. Uh, they're learning from the best. Wait did I see the video? But the but the crowd that we had at these public meetings consistent with that, that's great, it's really encouraged. That's super cool. Yeah. I won't name any names, but we were in stutt Guard. We had the public meeting at the RNT tap room, which all went to. That's where we had it at and there were there were some fine, red blooded American males that were ready to go out to buy me to that night and start and start digging up levies getting that water out of there. So yeah, I think uh, I was just just talking about Hunter recruitment. I think the biggest detriment waterfowl hunter recruitment is leaky waiters. You know you need to buy your own waiters. You had your opportunity at Max the other day, and then you thought about it. There's I have to Uh, we've been talking about. Austin mentioned these public meetings that we had. Those were incredible. They really were very um information. You were able to go some of them. I did. I was out of town for one of them, but I did go to the other three and UH, all very successful in people that really wanted to get out and figure out. Okay, this is something that I'm passionate about. What can I do to help? How do I understand this? How do I take this back and tell my friends? In fact, that's how Austin ended each of those meetings was the best thing you can do tonight is go out with the information that you learned here tonight and go tell somebody about it. And I think I really do because of Austin and our staff at the Arkansas Game and Fish Commission. That is why so far this has been successful, and I think that's why it will be successful for the future, is because of the educational aspects that were put in place leading up to it. I hope it is successful because I want to come back it will be I do. I have faith And while we're while we're on this is something that hasn't been touched, but we've talked about this kind off to the side. You know, we talked a lot about public land, but also this timber die off that we're seeing. We're actually dealing with that on our property as well, and we've had to take a step back. And actually, what I've learned in this process of game and fish is really what inspired us to go and look at our own woods and say, h we got some leaning tree is in there. You know, We've you know, we've got some floating acorns that we've seen during duck season from these white oaks, and what what can we what can we do to make our woods better? And so we've had to go in and do that. We actually left a big majority of our timber dry this year. And uh, it's something that you said something this week that I wouldn't have known the statistic, but the Arkansas's private land. That's right, Arkansas is privately owned. So but all all that to be said, yes, we're doing this on our property. But um, it benefits The more people that do realize this and that get involved in their in their own backyards and their own property, the more it benefits the whole state. Yeah, and so there's a lot of there's a lot of private duck clubs, private landowners, farmers that are getting this message to and doing stuff just like you guys here on your farm. So that's right, good, it's good. You know what else eats red oak acorns? Squirrels need them. So we're not just saving ducks, squirrels Austin squirrels great, make them great again. Hey, closers, any anything you guys want to say, because this is this is the last. I'm always a little bit sad when we closed down a series. You know, when we got done talking about Daniel Boone. We talked about Daniel Boone for like six weeks. We did find the Daniel Boone decoy, and we did on the on the decoy, I didn't know they had Sharpie's back then though it did say dB or molded flambeau plastic. Yeah, it's pretty amazing. My closing comment would be, thank you for doing this clay that I I do. I want to say that publicly, thank you for just taking an interest in this and not even being a waterfowl hunter, but wanting to learn more and wanting to learn more about what we do with the Arkansas Game and Fish coming into this and spreading the good news. So I wanted it hasn't It's something I needed needed to know, you know, and I know you're a big duck hunter. Now you got your own duck call. Yeah, para leaky waiters. But hopefully you'll get some new ones someday. This has been This has been an incredible week. It's been a lot of fun. It has It's been a lot of fun. Yes, Austin your turn. Sorry, I'm Austin's brains about I'm having a moment over here. First of all, for for my first closer, I've been the director since July. Amory's been here he said three years, right, yeah, alright. I'm a junior now, and this podcast is familiar with Luke. Luke's been working for this agency for fifteen years. There's a whole other cadre of guys behind Luke and me, guys and gals that have been beating this drum and putting in the hard work for years and years and years to get to the public to this point, to get this agency to the point. I want to close it out by thinking, you know, Chris Racy, Brad Corner, Rob Willie Buck Jackson, Garrick Dugger, Terrence Teal, Mark Cook, Terence Teals, the Waterfall guy. Yeah, so there's just this maiden name as goad Wall. There's a there's a there's just a ton of people that have been beating this drum for a long time. They've known that it's been the right thing to do, and it's easy for us to swoop into a podcast like this and talk about it in depth for a few hours, but they've been making it their life's work for years. So just remarkably grateful for them. The other thing is, did you say that do you have a duck call? Hand hand tuned by Jim. He didn't even have to tune it because it was already perfect. So, because I've listened to every single Burgaries podcast except for the Misty with a Mustache render all right, I remember that when people would come on your podcast in the early days, he used to make them give a mouth call or in nowhood, right, I mean it happened. I think it's only fitting that you give us your best duck call. I will go and get it right now and bring it over here. Do it? Do you know where it's Well, we'll just pause for a minute, Okay, okay, alright, alright, stages of yours. I believe in you. Okay. So, uh, we've gone and gotten. So we've gone and gotten the duck call that I got from Uh, I got it from Max. But Jim ron Quest tuned this himself. Yeah, I mean I've got I've got pictures of it. It has Jim Spit in it. I mean it actually probably does. So the other day I made a semi bet with Sean that I said, I bet I can blow a duck call that is better than what you think I would like. I didn't say I was gonna be good. I just said it's gonna be whatever your expectations are, I'm gonna exceed. That's exactly right. And so in Biometa. In in Biometa, I pulled this out and blew it for the first time ever. And it's not the first time I've blown a duck call. I had blown them before, but probably like eight or nine years ago, and never had any instruction, just kind of you know, I don't even know why I had a duck call, but I had one, and I blew it a little bit, and I understand the sequence. I mean, here's a cadence. Ye, okay, here it is. I'm gonna start off with a quack. Okay, can you do a duck? Can you do a g The quack was good. Here was my three criteria. He had to have a good quack. He had to have good fundamentals of how to hold and play and the stuff. But sometimes don't take some new guy to come in and teach the old guy's house. How he's still against my watch the video of you yesterday on Instagram and you were moving your hand. What are you doing? But you're curving your hand around then no, with your other hand. You've been like, it's a goose call. You don't do that. Okay, But I had a decent question. What do you think you exceeded my expectation. I believed in you the whole time. The whole time. You're like, who's going to know this? But I mean, can you do a gad wall call? Man? How do you do it in traffic? No? Just blow? Yeah, like a gazoo walls they got no heart. Again, gad wall doesn't have a soul. I mean, this is the passion of that what god wall? Every du to you? Again, that's no, it's I try to put an ounce of heart on it and they're like, nope, that's not again. Let me ask you a question. Can we hear grandfather Croc call hey, grandfather Crock here? Yeah? Yeah. Eight years ago, eight years ago, when we were sitting on a bear bait in Oklahoma, in this hundred and fifty pound bear walks out with a radio collar on. I said, shoot that when it's bended, and he said that bear, that's a baby. I'm like, no, it's got a it's bender. He's got a collar on it. I had. He's like, no, this length way we do it. I was like, this is a duck hunter coming into bear. Yeah. This bear had a radio collar on his neck. And he was like, man, that's the one you want to shoot. You wear that collar. He didn't hit with raw. Okay, is that good? Keep it going a little little type blue, little hard give us a feat and chatter. Oh that's good. It's pretty good, isn't it. Yeah? That's pure right, there. Yeah, he's expectations solid. He met my expectations, which is outstanding. Yeah, well, thank you all for being on the render Austin. Thanks thanks Ton you guys welcome back. If you're in northwest Arkansas, we're Donner Render. Just drop in, John Max, awesome have you guys. You guys are welcome any times. I guess I gotta talk with the main render crew to make sure that y'all met the standard. You know this, there'll be a lot of talk. They'll be like, well they did, okay. They kind of get like that, Yeah, because Josh out there just wishing he was spending and centing. Well, all right, guys, thanks so much for coming. Thank you. Times are coming great. I'm gonna put my cowboy books back on. Yeah. I might get in the fight before this is over. Who's who's the guy that who's the guy that does the sound at Media? Phil? Phil? I didn't you them this time? Actually, Hayden, Samak Hayden Sorry man, Hey, Sama texted me the other day and he's like, what's Brent eating candy on the rest room

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