00:00:02 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, your home for deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wire to Hunt Podcast. I'm your host, Mark Kenyon, and this is episode number thirty five. Tay in the show, Dan and I are discussing late season plans and problems. So here we go. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, and tay In. The show is just me and Dan sitting here in Michigan and Iowa, connected simply by a couple of sets of headphones to Mike's, the Internet, and a common addiction to hunting white tails. So, Dan, how the heck are you doing? I'm doing pretty good, Mark. I had one of these. I'm having one of those weeks though, and I'm sure everybody knows what I'm talking about. Where. Um, Yesterday I go down into my laundry room and there's a water dripping out of my ceiling and so I I'm like, what the hell is going on? So I go back up to my kitchen and notice that every time I run the faucet there's a hole in the line somewhere and it's been leaking down into behind the drywall on the ceiling um and going over top of my homes electrical box and getting the floor in my laundry room wet, so I had to take drywall off the ceiling and off the walls and get a fan in there and dry it all out, clean it all up, and fix the faucet. And then today at work, I had one of those days where I don't ever want to sound like I'm a violent person, but I wish I could take a hammer and smash my computer and maybe some hands of some coworkers. Maybe we might have to edit that out, because I think there's some people where I work that listen to this, but I think they understand, so well, yeah, let's smash the desk, especially desk desk. Oh Man, Well, sorry to hear that first and foremost. Imagine you probably can't divulge too much of of why all that stuff, but I'm sure many of us can relate to just how work can do that to you sometimes. Right. But the good thing is is I took a little I took a little moment of zen break and uh, I went to Google Maps like I always do, I spend you know, several hours a week on there, and just looked at the property and had a dreams about next year or you know, kind of planning already even though this season's out, over planning for uh next season a little bit. So yeah, thats right there, whitetail Therapy, It's it's the best right now. I understand you just got back from Indiana. It's true. That's true. I did, and you told me you were going to talk with me about it before we started recording, So now can we talk about it? Yeah, it's a pretty exciting story. So I didn't. I didn't want to talk to you about off the air because I really want to come out with this first and foremost the first place here on the Wired Hunt podcast. I had one of the most horrible hunts of my entire life. I thought you were gonna say, dude, I saw a giant. I wish, dude. I hunted, um now, not not for terribly long time. It was a three day trip. But over the course of three days, I saw a grand total of zero dear, not a single dear. And I mean I'm not talking just even within shooting range or you know, on my property. I didn't even see a deer two thousand yards away in the neighboring property. I didn't see a deer while driving around the roads in the morning or the evening after hunting, or during the middle of the day. I didn't even see a road kill deer. I didn't see a single living, breathing deer. Not one. Wow. Yeah, yeah, Did you have trail cameras up on that property? I did not. Now, my friend, my friend who was hunting this property before me, had cameras up um in the summer and September into October, and he had a good number of deer on the camera, numerous shooters, so some good bucks. And so I came in, you know, expecting with high hopes at least, you know. And I hunted in November and saw nothing but doze and a spike. And then I came back now and I thought, Okay, the standing corn that ruined my hunt last time, or what I thought was currying my hunt last time, that's gonna be down on to get here. Those deer are gonna moving out to feed in the cut corn field. It's gonna be great. And uh, Nope, I did not see anything. Um. And on top of that, the day I first day I got there, UM, I pulled in and this property too. There's a big there's a creek that runs right through the middle of property. And you know, when I was there in November, it was just like an ankle high creek. You're just crossing your and your knee boots. Um. And you really had you had to cross that to get to any of the property that was really huntable. Um, because on the road side of the creek was just a cut bean field. There was nothing there, nothing really to hunt. So I knew I was gonna have to cross that creek to get to the backside of the the property where all the action would be. So I, um, I, you know, set up. I got my portal stand hung up on my backpack, and I got my climbing sticks i'll strapped on, and I got my muzzleloader, and I got my UM. I brought up extra winter coat packed in my backpack, and I had all these things in my backpack probably weighed like sixty five pounds. And so already I'm just kind of irritated that I'm hiking in with this. And I start hiking in and I get to the creek, and the creek is in the creek anymore. It's just a full blown river. It's like thirty five yards across now and like raging. It looks like chocolate milk with just rothing boils and white water almost wrap as it seemed like there's so much water coursing through this now a river. Um I understood there, like wow, I mean, there's no way in the world I'm getting across that in my boots. Um So, I kind of as I stood there for probably five minutes, just like kind of silently cursing to myself and like, what in the world am I gonna do? So I kind of walked up and down trying to see if there's any you know, chance, like a big tree across that might that I might buil shimmy across. But even if there was, I don't know if I'd do it because it was like downright dangerous how heavy the flow was through that river. Um So, then I was okay, now, what in the world am I gonna do? Am I gonna there's no way to get across? So I either need to go buy a pair of waiters and see if I can wait across this. And even I tested the depth with like a stick and it was it was it might even been too deep. To wait across it was that. Um, I mean it was way up above the banks. Um. It sounds like what I could go by like a rubber raft and try to like, you know, raft across this thing. But then, I mean, can you imagine how ridiculous that would be if I tried to put a portal, tree stand, climbing sticks, my backpack, me and all my hunting gear and a little rubber raft and then try to raft across this raging, you know, fifty ft your fifty yard wide river and then see me, you know, colliding down the river, kidding, trees, tipping over, capsizing. It would have been what it would have happened. It would have been just me on the podcast today saying well, I'm sorry, but Mark Kenny is no longer with us. Yeah, and and I mean you'd probably be a great host all by yourself, But I just I wouldn't care for it that much. If this isn't the dallas Worth Show, I think you know, I would't That wouldn't even bother me. I think it just mostly be the fact I was dead. That might be the part that would be a downer for me. That would kind of suck. Yeah, it would suck. And you know, I don't have very good luck with creeks and rivers in the first place, as you know. You know, last time I tried to cross the river with you, I fell through the ice up to my shoulders. Maybe it should just like go out west or like to the plains in like Nebraska and Kansas where there's not a lot of rivers, just avoid all water sources. That might be my best bet. But um, I ended up being smart about this one, and uh, I decided to play it safe. I just sat that first night. Um, I kind of snuck into this one area on this one side of the creek that I that I was stuck on. Um that I could at least see into a larger section of timber across the creek. Um, So I cauntally see something. And I thought to myself, well, if I shoot something across the creek, there's no way I'm getting it tonight. So I'm like, I'll shoot it and I'm not gonna be able track or do anything. I'm gonna have to leave and figure out some way to get over there. Um. But that never happened because I never saw a thing. Um. But then that night I got to think about what my other options were and if they're the best thing to do would be see if you know, the best case scenario would be affect get permission to access my property from the backside through the neighbor because there's a road that runs in the backside of this block. So I ended up doing that, talk to this guy and he allowed me to do that. So I was able to access the property a second two days from the you know, the dry side of the property. Um. But things didn't improve from there, so it was just a rough, rough few days. Right. It's that time of year, man, You know it just as well as I do, and everybody listening it's just shuts down. And you know, that's what I want to talk about today, dan Is um is this late season time period, and we're gonna talk about it, you know, over the next couple of weeks, um leading here through the end of the season. But I thought we'd kick off this late season discussion for us this week, kind of talking through your plans and my plans, kind of what are our tactics and strategies are gonna be for this time of year, but then also talk about those implicit challenges and the problems that you know we've all um encountered during the late season, and that you know we might be anticipating this time of year, and you know, from my perspective, you know what you just said there, you know the fact that just shuts down. It can be the case in a lot of situations, and a lot of people encounter that. Um. But then on the other the flip side of the the coin, when you're in the right situation and you have the right variables in your favor, it can be some of the absolute best hunting in the world. I mean, I know some guys that specifically planned for the late season with their properties and how they hunt and everything, and there there's no better chance throughout the entire year of catching mature big buck on his feet than during the late season when you have the right things lined up. So it's one of those things very hot or cold, it's very hit or miss. Um, it's feast or famine. There's October low. Yeah, kind of that kind of deal. Um. So, so I thought, you know, we could kick it off here. You know, I outlined my Indiana trip there. Um it was rough, so I thought maybe to illustrate some of the points I want to make. I thought i'd start talking about that Indiana trip and what my thought process was for why I thought things might work out there, and then what I think ended up hurting me, and maybe that can transition us then from there into talking about your plans in Iowa, my plans in Michigan, and then we can bounce around talk through some of the different ideas, um and challenges. So what do you think, Mr Johnson's That sounds a good plan. Awesome. So you know, with Indiana, like I mentioned, um, the big thing I thought I had going for me was late season food. Now I think you'd agree. I think most of agree that that's probably the most important factor for late season success. That the deer are going to be where the food is. They've just come off of the rut, the most physically stressful time of the year for for Bucks most certainly, Um, I can't remember what the number is, but I'm pretty sure somewhere around Bucks lose somewhere around there that percentage of their body weight during the run. They get completely famished there as you know, they're running almost NonStop, they're chasing dose there um, you know, exerting a tremendous amount of energy. So when December rolls around, the rut kind of fades away these dear the most important thing on their minds is recouping that energy, bulking up on nutrition, getting food in their system to to recover from the rut and then to prepare for the winner. So with that being the case, deer focus their entire lives at this time of year around really high quality winter food sources. And because of that, from my perspective and most others, you know, you're hunting strategy this time of year needs to revolve around food, Identifying what those quality winter food sources are, identifying the ones that are actually being hit by deer at that time, and then finding a way to get in there and hunt those deer um. But there's there's so many other variables that play into that equation. But but food is the number one thing. And so in Indiana, I had that food. I had this massive corn field uh ja to my Indiana property that I thought for sure deer will be feeding. You know, corn is one of the best late season food sources because very hard, very high carbohydrates, which deer are looking for this time of year. That really is what it's like. The coal and the furnace for a deer that really gives them the calories and energy they need to handle the cold temperatures. So corn Field is great. Unfortunately, in my case, had lots of food, I had no deer. And I think there's two reasons why I wasn't seeing the deer. Well, there could be several um there just might not be any darned deer in the area, which based on my sightings, is somewhat indicative of the situation. But two things I think specifically hurt me. One was a lack of late season betting cover. So you need the food, but you also need the betting um. And betting is one of those things that decreases in you know, quantity, just as much as food does throughout the year. So you know, Dan, during the summer, when we're out there scouting, it's thick everywhere, right, The undergrowth is lush, There's tons of leaves, tons of cover, um, grass and shrubs and and everything. Deer are in thick, great secluded cover almost anywhere they go during the summer. But when you fast forward in December, I mean, if we walk through the woods that you know most guys are hunting, it's wide open, right, It's just open understory, and that's not the kind of cover that deer want to bet in during the late season, So they start shifting their betting habits to those few remaining places that are really thick and some properties have that and some properties don't. And this spot in Indiana, it does not have much of that. There's a couple of little spots with some good cover still at this point, but it's very isolated. And because of that, I don't think I had many deer relating to that cover. Um. Now, the second thing that was going against me was the weather. And this is a big thing that I think we'll talk about for our entire conversation today. But um I'm a big believer, and I'm a big believer this all year round. And you know, as you know, we talked about a lot um but weather, especially temperature and snow precipitation at this time of year, is a huge variable in deer activity, in movement during daylight. I love a good cold front, I love a good snowstorm. What I hate is warmer than average temperatures, and that's what we have right now in Indiana and in Michigan. I don't know maybe that's what you have in Iowa right now. But it's been warm and you know, these deer wearing their winter coats right now, and it's it's like, you know, you're me right now, it's fifty degrees here in Michigan. I'm not gonna walk around in a big puffy jacket and a winter hat because it's just uncomfortable. So the same thing those bucks and all those deer out there, they're doing the same thing. They're slowing down, they're not moving till it's cooler at night. There's just not that extra urgency to get moving during daylight. So, you know, at a high level, those are the two big things that I think we're hurting me in Indiana from from a late season timing standpoint. Um, Now, there's a whole set of other things that I want to talk about when it comes to what I think, you know, I could be looking for in Michigan moving forward, but you know, maybe to transitions from this. You know, here's what was going bad for me in Indiana. That was my plan in Indiana. Um, Dana, want to first now talk about what you have going on, you know, what what are your plans for Iowa? I know you've got permission from the wife to hunt a couple more weekends there in Iowa during the late season. So can you walk us through your plan and maybe or if any of the factors I just talked about, if those are things you're looking for, or if there's anything else, any other variables that are would be tossed into the equation for you. You know what are those? Yeah? Obviously whether is the big one um? Over the years I found you know, I may not even get into my tree stand until forty minutes, forty five minutes too, maybe an hour before the sun goes down, just knowing that the deer are not going to move until read at last light. This is just what I've seen it on my properties. You gotta find that food source um standing crops um. And as you know, I kind of have a little problem where I hunt because there's some other really good managed property around me that has standing standing crops all year round, and that those properties act like a sponge when the when the snow comes, it gets cold, they changed their bedding areas and and my properties kind of dry up a bit. Now as far as like a strategy is concerned, it all starts this week and I'm actually heading back home for a family Christmas and I'm gonna go out and I'm gonna see if there are any standing crops. I'm gonna do some scouting. UM. I took down all my trail cameras because of I've had issues in the past with people going onto the properties when the shotgun season starts, and that's the that's the really big obstacle, is the pressure from the shotgun. UM. There's multiple groups of guys. They don't coordinate, so they're in and out of there all the time, driving these gear out of the area and into these low pressure, heavily managed properties with standing food and they just don't come back until the spring. So as far as the strategy is concerned, I'll be hunting UM try to find that food source. To be honest with you, I'm not really looking for UM any particular buck. I'll be I'll be shooting. Does the first dough that walks by is gonna be getting a narrow um? Still, you know, debating if I actually want to lower my standards for a buck this year and maybe just you know, shoot the first thing that walks by, maybe a spike or I don't know, all these ideas are running through my head. But talk to me a little more about that. Are you Are you being serious, like you would really shoot the first buck you saw, or yeah, now if it's a spike, yes, maybe a button buck for sure. But I said to myself, you know, I tried to do the whole brown it's down thing the last day that this this my vacation, and I had a three and a half year old come by my stand who I believe in two years could be that next you know, Boone and Crockett giant. Damn your two deer. If it's an eight pointer and it comes by and it's a smaller buck, I don't know. Maybe I spoke too soon, but I haven't shot a deer in a couple of years. So two things happen. If it's a spike, I may shoot it. If it's a button buck, I will shoot it. Or if it's an dough I could still use my tags for uh, use my my any sex tag for a for a dough to So basically it's the first three doughs that come by are going to get an arrow. Um if I have my two my two dough tags already filled, which you know, this is all hypothetical, and a spike walks by, I'll probably shoot a spike. And this is purely just because he wants more venison. Yeah, that's that's a majority of it. Um. But I don't know, just like to hunt, I've I'm kind of coming to a crossroads this season. And I think me and you've talked about this a lot in from the from the filming aspect of it, and how how tedious it is at times to get into a tree, set up your camera equipment, tear it down, also tear your set down when you're when you're hunting. Like me, it's just another um thing that could possibly go wrong, and which brought me to the point of Okay, yes, I want to shoot mature deer, but I also want to just be a hunter as well. So I don't know, I'm going through this internal turmoil, which you know is kind of getting away from the the you know, the topic. But I don't know. I don't I I I really can't explain it right now. Well, uh, I think this is something we definitely need to, you know, continue to to talk about over the coming weeks, because I think it's something that probably a lot of guys go through UM. A lot of people I imagine make that shift eventually into wanting to target more mature deer or bigger deer, and they go at that for a few years, maybe two years or five years, or however long it is, and then at some point some people, you know, know they want to stick with that, and then other people, you know, encounter setbacks like you have recently, or different things that make you start questioning that and make you want to go back to just hunting UM. And it's understandable in a lot of ways. So I'm I'm interested to see you know where your minds at after this next weekend of hunting, that you get UM once you processed some of that stuff. So let's make sure to revisit that. And I think I think a lot of people will be interested to look into UM, into your mindset and that because I think it's something that so many people can relate to UM. So just it's just crazy because you know, these these mature bucks, and as you know and as everybody knows, are truly a different creature. And this year we had all these encounters with these with these three year olds that are and maybe one or two four year olds that were standing right in front of us. But we knew they were young, and we knew they could get to that next level. So I don't know, Man, I don't know. Now, Well, I guess, well, let's let's table that for a little bit, go out there, hunt, think about it, let us know how it goes, and let's talk about this little more detail next time. And I'm hopefully you've got a big buck on the ground that you can tell us about. Yeah, we don't even need to have a conversation because I shoot, you know, I shoot a mooner. And then I'm just like, yeah, I've been holding out for these guys all oh year, but I totally get it. I Mean, it's something that I've I've struggled with too, and even like this year in Michigan, I'm like, man, I just want to even though I had success already in Ohio, Like, man, I love to shoot a deer with my boat in Michigan really badly. And does that mean I do I change my standards? Do I just not shoot any buck to I give up on hunting bucks because there just isn't one to my standards? Or do I still I don't know, Um, It's something I'm sure a lot of people struggle with, so I'm glad you brought it up, though. Damn. I'll put it to you this way. Let's say that the government decided to stop all hunting all right today, there's no more hunting. It's illegal to go out and kill a deer. I would for fun and for excitement. I would still probably take vacation during this time that time of year and go sit in a tree stand. Yeah. That that's crazy to think, but you know, you know, in wacko world, that makes all the sense in the world. It's funny you mentioned that. Um. We're really going off on tangent here, but I'll just say this, Um, I thought about the exact same thing this past weekend. So I guess this is a relatable to because I'll tell this story. So I'm down there in Indiana hunting by myself, and then my my buddy Josh, he is hunting our property down Ohio because he still didn't he feel his tag. UM. So he's down there in Ohio and he's telling me about the deer he's seeing, and we're looking at trail camera pictures. Um. And even though I filled that tag, I literally thought about just going down there and sitting in a tree with my camera just to see these deer. Um, especially on that property where I've got you know, there's so many of these, you know, all the different stories that are going on in this property. My my hunting with Jawbreaker and Glenn, the buck I missed last year, and all these different big bucks. So I've been catching on trail camera I've been seeing and having counters with I want to be down there, and I want to see these deer and just watch them and capture them on film and and be able to talk about those stories. UM. That's what is so riveting for me. UM. So I really seriously considered just scrapping the Indiana hunt and just driving down the extra hour to Ohio and just sitting on a tree and and watching. UM. I came really close to doing it. I just realized I had to actually get back here to do this podcast and catch up on some other work. But if it wasn't for that, UM, I probably would have done that. And I still might go back down in January just to sit and I'll have my bow and I could shoot a dough if I saw one. UM. But yeah, there's not a whole lot. It's not really a dough hunting farm. There's not a whole lot of them. But um, I would just love to see a couple of these deer again because, um just fascinating animals, fascinating creatures. I love being out in the wild and seeing these animals and learning about them. Um. But but man, we are really going off in wild direction here. But let's get back to it. Let's get back to it. Let's get back to it. I agree. UM, So you just told us about your plans in Iowa, right, You're in goal of for food. You're going to uh kind of fare things out as you go, but hopefully come across a good food source and then you know, take advantage of whatever opportunities might come. Um. Now, one good thing here is we don't have snow. We we don't have a lot of snow on the ground. We don't have any snow on the ground right now. Now, A lot can happen in the next three weeks, um, because my first day back in the tree stand is going to be the very first weekend in January, and then the Friday night and Saturday night of the following weekend. So if there's no snow. It makes things even harder because there is there is still. We had a huge acorn crop this year and there's gonna be a ton of acorns all over the timber. What the snow does, um, is just helps concentrate these deer into the food sources, so into the egg fields. So I'm gonna have a lot of you know, kind of hoping and praying for basically terrible weather, um those last two weeks. And when I mean terrible weather, I'm talking in the negatives, negative numbers, UM, not really bad wind, because they'll sit down for twenty four hours even with terrible wind, um, so extremely cold temperatures and uh, maybe maybe some snow on the ground tail least cover everything that helps get things. You know, they'll they'll start grouping up more. You'll see more, dear, And if you can find that food source, man, that's where it's at. Yeah. I am right there with you, UM, And I think you know my maybe let me describe my perfect ideal late season set up and hunt, and I think maybe that will help us kind of talk through some of these issues, um. In addition to what you just did there, because a lot of everything ties right into that Um, but I mean setting the stage right, Like we talked about, these bucks have been hunted for the past two months or more, so these deer are on edge. They've been heavily pressured. Um, Like in your situation, you know, guys doing drives to the property. These deer are not like they used to be in early October. They're not going to handle additional hunting pressure well at all. So you know, there's very little room for air here. So the heavily pressured now, like we talked about, already, quality late season bedding cover is limited, so they're going to be spending time when they do betted in these limited areas of quality bedding cover. And then the most important thing, like you just talked about, is those food sources. And for the most part, you know, in some cases, like you talked about, there's gonna be lots of acorns and things, but more than any other time of the year, great food is a limited resource for deer. So like you said, you got to find those isolated food sources where you can. Um, you know where those deer are gonna eventually congregate and funnel two. So you've got less food less over lots of pressure. What really comes down to during the late season for me in my opinion, and you can tell me if you think differently, But I'm pretty sure on the same page here is it really comes down to almost um. You need to it needs to be a drone strike. You don't get a lot of opportunities during the late season, but when those couple right opportunities appear, you need to take advantage of it and take advantage of it perfectly. So I'm looking for a few things, these couple ideal conditions, and then when I see them, I'm gonna go in on a strike hard. UM. Now, what you're doing here depends on whether you have property you can manage the habitat or if you don't. UM. I'll give an example of a property that can manage and then we can talk about different things like a situation like yours where you don't actually manage the habitat. You need to just work with what nature gives you. UM. But on one of my Michigan properties that I hunt, I can plant food plots and do habitat improvements and whatnot. So what I do is I specifically plan some of my food plot plannings and some of my work on bedding cover to obtain that quality late season food and late season cover. So I've gone into a number of these spots that are other already good betting areas, and I've done a bunch of hinge cutting, which is you know, cutting a tree part way in half, small trees and then bending them down so they stay connected to the to the trunk, but the top of the tree is down horizontal with the ground. And what that does is it brings that cover of the tree top down to the ground level. But then that tree stays alive, produces new shoots, new leaves, and also opens up the canopy so more sunlight comes in this area, so you get more grassy cover, brush and stuff like that. So I've done that in this property and several areas over the past few years, and it's created these clusters of really thick additional cover that stays thick during the winter. So I've got good late season betting. And then I'm going and I'm like I mentioned, planning late season food plots that are going to be productive this time of the year. And my favorite food plot um for a guy like me who doesn't have a lot of land or a big equipment or anything something that you can plant in relatively small quantities um brassicas, so brassicas. There are things that rape kale, turnips um, that kind of thing that are these big leafy, kind of lettuce type greens um that deer just love during the late portions of winter. Really cool temperature is a good frost makes these leaves really kind of sugary and sweet to deer. And I'm very attractive. So what I'll do is, um. You know, we had the rut, I was hunting the rut, the gun season happens, I pull out of most of my good Michigan properties during the gun season, kind of let them become a sanctuary, and then once the late season comes around, now I'm gonna wait for these perfect conditions because I've got really good late season food and I've got really good late season bedding. So I know most likely where those deer bedded. I know most likely where those deer will be feeding. It's just a matter of now of catching those couple of nights when the big buck I'm hunting will actually move towards that food source during daylight. And so my whole strategy now revolves around picking those right couple of days. Because I'm a believer dan Um that if you're going in there, you're hunting a lot during the late season, you're gonna ruin your your situation because these deer are so on edge, they've been pressured all hunting season. You just can't all the things that you know, even though I preach it all the time. Right, we talked about low pressure all year, Um, but sometimes you can get away with something in October. You might make a mistake in October or blow a deer off of food source or something, and then still see him a couple of weeks later. Um, that you'll get some forgiveness. But in my opinion, I don't think you get that forgiveness in the middle in the middle of December, because they've been bumped and pushed and bothered for weeks and weeks and weeks. At this point, you know, if you screwed up one more time, for most of these deer, especially a big old deer, he's gonna say, forget this. I'm not dealing this right now. So I think you have to wait until the couple right situations to to risk that pressure. And so what I'm looking for a couple of things you talked about one frigid, nasty cold temperatures. You know, just like you said, you want that tone numb and cold, because that's really gonna get deer on their feet. And if you're hoping for some additional daily activity, those frigid cold days will be the ones where there's a chance that your big boy is gonna move a little bit before dark number two. Again, just like you said, snow, um, it's gonna cover up food sources like acorns. Like you said, it's also just gonna it's gonna cover up all sorts of different types of food sources that normally would be easily accessible. Now those deer need to search around a little bit more. They need to dig up things a little more. And with that cold and that snow, deer just want to get up and feed, um sooner it helps them. Getting moving around warms them up a little bit. So really, I'm waiting for a huge coal front or good snowstorm. When those two things hit, then I'm gonna think, okay, and now where's the very most likely spot there and had to feed? And then I'm gonna move in there and I'm gonna hunt it when those conditions are just right, and that's kind of what my whole late season revolves around, is waiting for those perfect conditions. When I get them, I'm gonna go in and I gonna hunt it, and it's gonna be kind of high risk, high reward. I'm either going to get that kill, or I'm gonna get an opportunity or come close, or it's just not gonna work out at all. Um. One of the things I would say, and I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this, Dan, because you know we've um. This is something we talked about during the early season two and we had slightly different viewpoints. Um. But during the late season, I again tend to avoid morning sits for the exact same reasons why I avoid Morning six during the early season, I avoid them during the late what's your opinion on that, Well, that's great if you are a food source hunter. UM. For me, I have had some good success in the mornings late season as far as um uh okay, So the past couple of years I have tried this tactic. Go into a betting area knowing I am like late in the day, knowing you're not gonna hunt it from the opposite side, so you find the food source and you find their betting area. You bumped the deer towards the food source. Okay, set up and then just like early season on a on a bump and dump, a running gun type set up there. They go back to a pattern. They're going back to a pattern, and yeah, there is some pressure, but dear, one thing I've noticed is that this only happens one time, typically with with a bed, but they get away. They go, Hey, that betting area was good. I'm safe there. I caught that problem. And then depending on the wind, you hunt it and when they come back to that betting area after feeding all night. Um, I've done that a couple of times um with some does and have been successful late season because of that. Yeah, the old bumping dump that that is something that I mean, I've heard of it time and time again. It can definitely work. That's uh. Would you agree though that, Like you said, it's usually like one shot, right. If you go in there and you don't pull it off that first time, you're especially when I mean with does, you might get away a little more. But if we're talking to mature deer, you get maybe one shot, maybe another one if you're lucky, but probably it's a right. It's a swinger mess type proposition, right. I mean, just like any bumping dump throughout the year running a gun set up throughout the year. If you're bumping a deer, and I don't care what time of year it is, you might be able to get away with it once, but you go in there again, uh within you know, a short period of time and bump them again. There you know, for the most part, they're done. Yeah, you're you're done. So you know, I think that I think that early mornings can be still good if you're in a transition, you know, if you're at a pinch point or or something leading back from a food source to uh um, you know, to a bed. But I also think not only are they going to the beds after dark or going to the food sources typically after dark, but they're also returning to the foods are to their beds way before light most times. So again, it's that cold, crappy weather that's going to to keep them on their feet longer. It's going to force them to eat more and uh so, so they're preparing for the winter, Yeah, definitely, So I think, uh like we're right in the same page there either way, whether you want to go in the morning or evening. You know, on average, most of the deer, especially the older deer, are going to be waiting until dark to move in the evenings and then be back to their beds during dark in the mornings, except on these days where these conditions, like we said, are conducive to that extra daylight movement. So I think either whether you like to hunt evenings or mornings during the late season, that's a like a surefire thing you need to keep in mind, is that this time of year, more often than not, it's gonna be after dark unless you wait for these right conditions. So you know, my recommendation, least for me. I know, you know, when you have time to hunt, a lot of guys you gotta hunt right. You just want to be out there and enjoying the outdoors and stuff, and say, take advantage of whatever opportunities you have. And I understand that, but if you have flexibility with when you can hunt, I would really, you know, recommend you try to make sure you're not wasting your hunts on those days when it's super warm and lousy, um, when there's a really low chance of seeing daily activity and a high chance of you know, educating deer. I would rather see you hold off on a few hunts and wait until the right conditions and then go in there when you've got a higher, higher odds of success. So if you have that flexibility, that's the way to do it. I would say. Um, you know another thing that I would keep in mind, um, is you know when you're moving into where you hunt. This is slightly off topic, but related to to the betting piece. Um, you know when these deer are moving into bed, whether it be before or after daylight in the morning during the late season. For the most part, most deer, especially of the does, are betting a lot closer to food. They're not as apt to travel long distances between food and betting if possible, if they have got if they've got quality cover, near quality food. They want to make the role as the world as small as possible this time of the year, bucks and does and so this is great if you can find out where that is, because then, like you said, these deer are back on those patterns, and they're tighter patterns usually than any other time because of those limiting factors. So, um, if you can find that little patch, you could be in the money, but you also have that super high risk of blowing it too, because the deer are much more concentrated. And so I know I've I've had this happen. Um. I thought if I found out where deer were feeding in the um in the afternoons, and I had seen several nights in a row a bunch of deer feeding out into this cut corn field. Um, I didn't know where they're betting. So one day I packed us some stuff and I was gonna head in and I was gonna try to hunt just the field edge. I was just trying to just to see what was going on. And I thought I could get to the edge of the field and observe. Well, I'm hiking in and I kind of crested over a slight hill. As I crested over that hill, I can see the edge of the field, and I can see where I want to hang my tree stand. And as soon as they get over the hill, like white tails burst out of the tall grass and brush behind behind my tree where I was gonna hang it up. They were betting not fifteen yards off the field. And um, that's something I've seen time and time again. These dear. You know, in situations where they can they want to bed close to that food. So you need a plan for that and identify whether or not you can get into the spot you want to hunt in the afternoon, um, without spooking deer. And you know, keep that in mind when you're accessing your stand too. If you're gonna go walking past an area that's close to a field edge where they might be betted, you need to compensate for that. UM. So just another you know, these are things that kind of a general rules that we talked about and follow throughout the entire season, right, I mean, early season's the same deal, um, But I just feel like it's exaggerate it. At this time of year, in my opinion, Um, everything becomes a little bit thinner ice that you're walking on. Um. And so I just think if at any time of a year that you're willing to be detail oriented, this is the time to do it. Um. Ironically, and unfortunately, it's also the time of the year that for most of us we become the least detail oriented, right because we've been hunting for two months, we're tired, we're maybe down on our luck, we're frustrated. Um. And so sometimes with those types of feelings, I guess we tend to get a little lazy, at least I do sometimes. Right, you're frustrated, sometimes you start glossing over the details. But you have to try to fight that because now is the time that those things are the very most important. So I think that's that for me. Their late season is all about battling fatigue, almost mental fatigue, hunting fatigue. It's all about, you know, maintaining that mental edge and then executing on when when you need to do it in the right way. Is keeping all the details in mind, executing it the right way at the right time without letting that fatigue and um exhaustion of the whole season the way you're down, Because if you can pull it off, it can be great hunting, but you can very easily blow things if you're if you're not really dotting your eyes and crossing your teeth. Yep. So one quick um tip and this bit is this is based off if your state allows it or not. But because the movement is you know, after dark a lot of times on this late season, I like to use a spotlight and I will go around two different areas that I can hunt, and I'll glass, and i'll spotlight the uh the fields after the sun you know, after dark and after the sun goes down. Get an idea of where they may be coming out at and then jump into the timber where you see these deer and then work your way back in, follow a trail if they're snow on the ground or um, you know, a low spot where your fingers or something like that, and then dump back in because typically they'll have some kind of a staging area or they'll they may stand up out of their bed and they won't go straight to the betting area. They may mill around an area for a little bit before um, you know, before the coast is clear, so to speak. So spotlight might be a good idea if your state allows it. If not, UM, tough luck. Yeah, No, that's a great point. UM. That's something about you know, I always talk about doing more often, UM and I never occasionally do it. But it's it's a great tactic. Another thing you could do too. And again this there's some inherent risk in this, you know, as we're talking about the need to you know, maintain as low pressure of environment as you can. UM. But if you're in an area if maybe maybe you have the right conditions and you headed into hunt and it didn't work out. But when you're walking in and out of your stands and stuff, really pay attention to tracks at this time of year two when when you have snow cover, because at no other time really do you get as good of an idea. UM is easily seen tracks at least as when there's snow and something. Depending on the snow cover and stuff, you'll be able to see those tracks better or worse. But if you can identify a particularly large track, now's a great time to to use that information. See where he's coming in and out of UM, you know, maybe pull a gym shocky and even try to track him. So that's UM. That's another thing to keep in mind, is you know, just like at any other time of year, using all that most recent information that you can come up with, whether it be a you know, scouting via your spotlight at night, or if you can find tracks, or if you've got trail cameras, you know, take all those pieces of the puzzle, put them together and add that to this to this whole plan, and piece those things together to find out the right time to strike in the right place. UM. And you know I've said it before, but I really feel like for me, it's I look at like a drone strike. You have to do that intel. You've got to get your UM, your information, and then once you have the best possible UM idea of where that target is, wait for the perfect conditions as best as you can, and then you know, go in there and kill them and perfect world works out. You know, more often than not it's not going to but sometimes it does. Um. You know, last year it worked out for me um in Michigan. And I've told the story before, so I won't go into detail with it, but you know, the six shooter I killed last December was one of those types of deals I I I would do this exact thing. I had the good food and the good cover on my main Michigan property. I said, okay, I'm not going to hunt at all until I get the right weather and right wind and right conditions. And I waited and waited, and finally I got this big snowstorm come through and the temperatures dropped down to the floor. I headed into my best late season food source that first night after that storm passed, and boom, I had an encounter a six shooter. Now didn't work out for me that night, but I almost did. Now fast forward four days later. Two things that happened. Number One, the wind. It had been windy the next couple of days after that storm still passed. Um, the wind finally died down. We now had like six inches of snow, freezing cold. And this is the first day after that wind settled. It had been blowing hard. Now it was down to almost nothing to three miles a really cool, really crisp, great weather for a hunt. Now I had seen six shooter back on one of my food near one of my food plots on this property, but I didn't get that that opportunity. Now, a couple of days later, I hear from a neighbor of the heat spotted a big buck on the opposite side of this property, on another farm I can hunt feeding in a cut corn field. So now I've got another piece of intel. All right, big bucks on this corn field. The wind just died down, Um, and my wind direction was perfect to sneak into the spot um and get away with what I thought would be a wind I could live with, but would be a wind any deer coming out to feed would think would be relatively in their favor. So that's what I did. I went straight and I got this piece of intel. I found a way to sneak and really carefully so that I wouldn't spook into deer, you know. As you know, I literally crawled on all fours along the side of this hill so I wouldn't expose myself to any deer that might be bedded in the timber inside. Because I was really confident that they weren't betting far from the food again in this case, and that that ended up being true. I crept on all four so I could get around this hillside and then just set you know, behind a tree on the ground. And it ended up working out kind of just to a degree as I thought, right, those deer were not betted too far within the food source. They got up out of their beds, moved into the field. Tons of dos piled into the cornfield feeding. Um. It was just one of those perfect nights with a deer on their feet, moving and getting on that food because it's that first day where really they feel comfortable and um, you know, as the story goes, eventually he did show up and I got the shot, so so on of those situations where you know, find the right spot, use whatever piece of intel you have, and then wait to the right moment. And uh, I think if you do that, you can have really good success during the late season. But you have to have that food almost in all cases. That's that's a really big factor. So I think, um, I think that might be the hinge that late season success swings on. Yeah, sounds good. What do you think are you? Did I remotivate you to get excited about late season huntingdon man? I know my property and it's gonna be tough. I mean, you can pump me up all you want. But you know, the last couple of years that I've sat in, um, you know, either the weather wasn't right, wasn't cold, or I had oh jeez, one day, one day, last day of the season. This wasn't last year, but the year before I had an encounter with you know, they're all grouped up. All these doughs came through first, and on my trail camera, I had, um, these these big deer coming through right at last light. And then um, let's see, it was a Thursday in the temperature the bottom just dropped right out and that that night. When I got in, I checked the trail camera and it was it got dark. And then I came back the next evening and I know when I checked my trail camera there daylight and daylight pictures of um tons of like I think it was there. There there all shooters this year, and they were shooters last year too, But um, I'm kind of glad I didn't. I didn't get an opportunity with them, if that makes sense. But they came by right at last light, and to be honest with you, they were just outside on my shooting range, so I didn't take the shot. And uh, that was really the only good in the past two or three years, the only really good late season UM hunts hunts I've had because I don't have those standing crops. The only hope that I have this year is that. And I hate to say this as a good thing, but there was a death in one of the farmers families, and when I left my vacation, they there was a guy out there saying he did not know it could be late, could even be this winner before they get the crops out of the field. So there is a chance that there's a cornfield still standing, and that might be an opportunity for me. Yeah, well, like you said, really unfortunate circumstances that created that, but a great hunting opportunity there. So you know, as I I think a lot of people probably relate to what you're talking about there, just about how you know it's really always tough this time of year for them and whatnot. And I, um, there's something I wrote recently that I think is is something to keep in mind. Um, it's something I can tell myself a lot too, because I'll get down about two. But even now, even when you know times are kind of tough, pickings are slim, there's a chance, right, there's a chance you can be out in the woods and you might get that shot. And three months from now, Dan, you and me are gonna be sitting here on the podcast talking about deer and the season is gonna be closed, and we would probably give anything to have a chance to go on a tree and shoot a deer. Right. We dream about that all year, So right now we have that chance. It might be a slim one, but we have it. So I'd encourage all the listeners out there to uh to take advantage of that and uh and who knows what will happen. That's a fact, Jack, that is So what do you think should we should we wrap things up here? I think first off, we need don't we need to announce the contest winner? Well, we do, but I don't know. I don't know. It doesn't seem like people want nozonics anyways, right, And there's not a whole lot of interest, is there? I don't think so. I can't believe how many people signed up for this. I think there's a lot of folks that are excited to get of an ozonics to try. So, so, Dan, you want to, uh tell us who's gonna win this thing? Well, let me pick right now. Okay, Um, can you do your best attempt at a drum roll? Yeah? Can you hear this? Oh that's pretty good? Yeah, and it is. Okay, we are looking at John stein howerd John stein Howard. I just randomly went through it, um, and he is the winner of the osonics. So I'll get ahold of John and uh let him know that he won. Now, next week, we're also going to be doing another giveaway, and that's for We're gonna have two winners next week and that's for two different sticking picks. So same thing as what we did with the osonics. Um, you gotta like the post, you gotta like, uh, the Facebook of Wired to Hunt the nine Finger chronicles. We're gonna be giving away to sticking picks. We're gonna pick two winners and so can first off, congratulation to John for winning the osonics, and then you know, two more winners next week, and then you know, who knows what we're gonna have the following week. We may have some more free stuff to give away, I think so. And uh, just for anyone that doesn't know what a sticking pick is, right, Dan, it's a it's a trail camera stand that you know, you can stick in the ground. There's a couple different models. I'm not sure which one you have, but it's a really cool way to to get your trail camera in locations that maybe there's not a tree at all or the right tree. Um, I've really come to love mine, So it's a great it's a great product. Teach your hands on. Yeah, I'm I'm I'm getting to the point now where I almost would rather have my camera on a stick and pick than on a tree. Yeah, they're they're pretty darn handy, So that's uh, that'll be another cool giveaway next week. So all right, John Steinhouer, alright, John Steinhauer, all right, John's the man. Well, Daniel'll be getting in touch with John and um, we'll have all this information on weird hunt dot com as well. That's weird Hunt dot Com slash episode thirty five this week. UM, so keeping out for more details. And I guess I'll wrap up the show here, call it, call it a day. So I hope you guys enjoyed the show. Um, you know this will be our topic over the next couple of weeks. We're gonna keep on talking about different things related to the late season, UM, and hopefully can help you guys kind of close out the year on a on a high note, put some venos in the freezer, and maybe even tag that big old buck you've been chasing. If you have enjoyed the show, you know, as we always say, if you could leave us a rating or review on iTunes, it would be incredible. UM. I can't tell you how much this helps us out. UM. We've already gotten way more reviews than almost any other podcast in the kind of similar category as us, and I think it's because you guys are take the time and effort to share your thoughts on the podcast, and UM, it's helping a lot, so I appreciate that. And UM, I can't talk a whole lot about what's coming, but there's just some really cool stuff coming for the podcast. UM, I'm super excited about secret. Um, Danny, you don't even know some of the stuff, so it's it's super tough secret. I'm supposed to be your right hand man, I know, but UM, basically, Danny, where we're moving you as a co host and it's just gonno no, But there's gonna be some cool stuff. UM. It just seems like there's a lot of great feedback coming in about the podcast and we're just gonna keep on doing more and getting you guys what you want and helping you guys out as much as we possibly can and telling these stories. So look for a lot of really neat stuff to come in two thousand and fifteen. And the only reason why it's possible is because of you guys, So thank you for that. Like I mentioned, weird Hunt dot Com slash Episode thirty five is where you will find the show notes and links from today and voting details Again about the giveaway that Dan talked about, and uh, anything else that we um, you know, think might be relevant to this conversation. I'll put links in there. As always, we also want to thank our partners who helped make this show possible and who keep the lights on in uh, in my house here at the Wired Hunt headquarters, so big, thank you too, Sick of Gear, Trophy, Ridge Bear Archery, Redneck Blinds, Carbon Express Arrows, Hunts, Soft Lacrosse Boots, Big and J long Range Attractings, and the White Tail Institute of North America that all said, thank you so much for joining us here today on the Wired Hunt Podcast. Take advantage of the late season. Take advantage of that chance, because not too long from now you're gonna be sitting on the couch wishing you could be hunting. But right now you can be, So get out there, hunt hard, and stay wired to hunt.