00:00:02 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm your host, Mark Kenyan, and this is episode number four seventeen, and today the show, I'm joined by Sam Soholt, the co founder of public Land Teas and well known for his public land bus adventures, and we're diving into ten very specific actions you can take today for conservation. All right, welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by First Light, and today we have got Sam so hold and Sam is most well known for his public land bus and public land van adventures. If you follow those at all on YouTube or social media or in the countless other media places he's shown up, you probably know what he's been up to. He also is one of the co owners of public Land Tease. And Sam's story is really cool because you know, Sam was just a regular hunter. He's just a guy like you or me who would love to chase deer and get outside and and hunt critters and enjoy the great outdoors. And after doing that for a whole lot of years, though, he realized that he wanted to do more. He realized that he could do more to help protect public lands and wildlife and healthy habitats, and so he decided, you know what, I'm gonna go from just being a person that goes out there and hunts and takes pictures and does this kind of stuff, and instead I'm gonna try to make a difference. And since that point he's been doing it. He's been living that mission and making a big difference. And so it seems to me that he is the perfect person to help us wrap up our month long conservation series because you know, we've talked about a lot. Talked to Randy about public lands. We talked to madd and Adam about private land management work that you can do in your own ground. We talked to Wit about a lot of different public and private land related conservation policies, regulations, laws that might be considered. Uh So we've kind of covered all of that stuff, and there's there's been a lot to talk about the question though that I think I had coming out of this, and maybe some of you guys too, is okay, now what you know, there's so many different things that were discussed. It's I think it's fair to say that could be overwhelming. There's so many different issues you could worry about, our things you could do or actions you could take. And I think what I wanted to try to do today here was to talk through some concrete ideas, give you, guys, ten specific ideas for how you could take action to help conservation efforts to do something good for the wildlife. We love chasing for the wild places, we love to spend time in uh and way that we can give back. And so what Sam and I have done as we've brainstormed kind of looking at our own experiences and then also looking back at the conversations we've had already this month about these topics with Randy Wit and Adam and Keith or Adam and Matt, and we've put together our top ten action items. So this is a bunch of different ideas. Some of these will be realistic for some of you, some of you not so much, So pick and choose, but my my encouragement to you is to give this a listen and see if there's one or two things here that is a good fit for you that you could try to take some action on and move that needle. I think we can all do it. I'm if nothing else, this is for me. I guess this is a great way I'm trying to remind myself. Okay, here some tangible things you can do to to do something that's going to help. Because it's it's easy to see the news or see something pop up online and think, damn, another bad thing happened in this place I care about, or another you know, public land thing that's gonna go down the tube, and it can seem so overwhelming or out of our hands, and sometimes it just feels really good to do something about it. And so today our hope is to give you a few ideas for how you could do that. So we're gonna dive into Sam's story a little bit, learn a little bit about this history, learn a little bit about what it was for him that took him from being a hunter to being a hunter advocate, conservationist, public land promoter and uh protector and all that kind of good stuff, and then we dive into these ten specific ideas. So I hope you enjoyed this one. I hope this is a helpful way to wrap up this series. I think it is. Uh, it definitely was helpful for me, and I'm excited for you guys to give it a listen and then for all of us to get after it. So with that, I appreciate you being here. Thank you for here, for tuning into this Conservation Month series. And now let's get to my conversation with Sam so Whole. All right, I've got with me on the line now Sam So hold Sam, welcome to the show. Hey, thanks for having me. It's been I feel like it's been a long time coming. Yeah. I just was thinking the very same thing, like, why hasn't this happened yet? It is? It is one and oversight on my part, and uh, I know we've talked in the past about making it happen and then logistics and different things ended up getting in the way. So I'm glad it all worked out. And thanks for making the time to do it. Yeah. Absolutely. I just you know, appreciate you having me on. And you know, during the spring, it's you know, it seems like a very good time to to sit down and do this before the craziness of that is the rest of the year. Yeah, that's that's definitely the truth. So you know, I I briefly introduced folks to you in the little introduction that I record before these conversations, but I got to hear it from the horse's mouth. You know, when when people ask you what you do, how do you answer that question? Because it's not as easy as someone who says, like I'm a doctor, or you know, I work on cars. You kind of have a complicated answer. What do you tell people? You know? For a long long time, I just told people that I was a photographer, freelance photographer, a videographer. Um, but I'm trying. I've been trying to figure out what a better a better explanation of what I do, and it would probably just be like content creators, slash public land and conservation advocate. Well that rolls off the tongue really nice. But but okay, I kid um way too long. But yeah, so it's been in the whatever quote unquote hunting industry for ten years now, and uh yeah, I started off as just doing mostly videography, kind of transitioned into a lot more photography, and then about four years ago, uh started down this journey of kind of transitioning and using everything that I had learned in photography and video to to really promote and raise awareness and raise money around conservation and help educate people on how they can get involved, and so it's yeah, what started as was you know, just a passion for the outdoors and the love for hunting and uh, you know, photography and videography was away from me to get paid to do those things. Transition into doing what I can and what we can as a company to to protect those resources so that future generations have those same opportunities. Yeah, yeah, I can definitely relate to that kind of transition. But was there any was there any one thing or moment or time period that was like the catalyst for that jump or was this just a slow evolution for you? Now, the big catalyst was the fall of two sixteen when it was a transition year for politics and there was a lot of legislation that was coming down the pipeline that was threatening our public land system. And to be completely honest, like I really had no idea, Like I didn't I was uneducated myself about all how all of that worked, all the finances and everything, and how potentially easily that could all disappear. And so there was this moment like when I started to learn about all this stuff that it just like, you know, it's like getting punched in the gut. I just felt like I needed to do my part to speak up and and talk about it. At least, you know, I have very small platform, but at least do something that would maybe help a few other people learn about it and speak up about it. And no, it just knew that collectively, like the hunting industry as a whole, there's a lot of people out there have been doing this for decades. But just you know, the more people that knew about it, the more people that would speak up, would help protect public lands and conservation going forward. And so yeah, it was. It was that fall of two thousand and sixteen. I just got all inspired and fired up, and it was I was coming off of a really good year on photography and videography and just was kind of looking for that next big project and this one, this one was. It was a combination of perfect timing and inspiration all at once. Yeah, And this sounds a lot like what I went through leading up to my book project. Same kind of deal where I realized, like, wow, this stuff is not as guaranteed as I thought, and uh, and I have so much to learn, like what can I do to help? And it's sent us both down that path, I guess. But what what I mean when people look at what you've done in those years, since there's been a lot, how would you describe like what that journey looked like for you? I mean, tell tell us about the public land bus and the van and everything since, Like, what have been the stand up moments for you? Now that you've taken this this detour for um, just hunting photography and videography to now, Uh, you know, content producer conservationist. There's your name, your content producer conservationist. Yeah, that's perfect. Um. Yeah, so you know, of course, you know got all fired up and you know, wanted to raise awareness about all these issues, and you know the most obvious solution to that is to purchase a school bus. And yeah, I mean it's just total makes total sense. And actually the school bus idea had been around for a while. Um, I was previous to my photography career. I had worked with my brother in his back country hunting store and he had kicked around the idea of getting the bus and using it as like a marketing vehicle for their company, or a mobile archery shop or you know, some different ideas. And uh, so that the school bus itself had kind of been floating around my brain and like all the possibilities of what you could do with that type of vehicle. But it wasn't until this this idea for this project came about that I was like, Oh, that's that's it. That's what you use a bus for. It's the it's a rolling billboard to raise awareness, like what the vehicle would get more attention than something that you know, basically every person in the country has written on a school bus at one point in time, like whether it be going to school or going to events? Are all these things like has all this nostalgia built into this vehicle? And so I was off and running. I was looking for busses on Craigslist and Facebook and uh, you know, like newspaper ads, anywhere I could look. And my my brother Josh found one on Craig's list out in Colorado, and I called on it and just you know offered. I was, you know, a bit of a barter. So I was trying to trade gear for it. Asked if he asked the guy hunted and fished, and I was like, well, what do you need to need? Coolers? You need guns, you need what you know, what are you looking for I think I finally just wore him down and he had it listed for fifty dollars and UH just was finally like, I'll just I'll take and so yeah, so I said, yep, that sounds good, drove down or it was out in Colorado for New Year's and drove down on New Year's Eve and bought the bus and and then um, yeah, proceeded to you know, basically plan the interior build and uh from there on out. But like, you know, bought the bus New Year's And then obviously in my photography career, I would go to Archer Trade Association show, the A t A Show and the Shot Show, and every year I would go talk to my former clients and talk to potential new clients. And I went to both of those shows with all just jacked up that I had just you know, bought this thirty seven foot piece of steel, and I was like, Hey, here's what I'm doing, here's the idea, here's what I'm gonna do with it, like and um, all of these companies were all fired up about it, and then not a single one of them came through on actually support for the for the bus project. So that which was which I think in the end was was even better because year one I just spent every dime I had basically ever made and put it into this bus idea and it started to get some traction towards the end of that first year. So um, yeah, I had the school bus, ripped the whole interior out of it, all the seats, pulled the flooring up, and then um, Memorial Day weekend of was the very first like actual thing that I did on the bus, which was a buddy and I painted the ceiling inside and then I laid the floor in the bus. And so I just got to work. And my parents had graciously allowed me to park the bus at their little lake cabin for the summer and sleep at the lake and wake up in the morning and make a pot of coffee and start working on the bus. Every day, so for you know, a little over two months, I would wake up, make a pot of coffee, walk out to the big yellow school bus in the driveway, and and just start working on stuff. And I just, uh, it was it was whatever, you know, start working at seven am and work till dark and then do it over again. Um. And so from Memorial Day weekend until August I believe it was August seven, was the day I hit the road. I transformed it from just your standard yellow school bus into what it is today, which it's kind of a makes I mean, it's a camper, but like without all of the like no running water, no toilet, um, just like bunk beds, bed storage, little kitchen area and uh yeah, just a big giant green and white bus that says public land bus on the side. Yeah. I can attest from when I saw it a handful of years ago that it it definitely turned out really cool. I mean it's it's uh every nomad hunter's dream of of a mobile office home hunting camp. It. Man, it turned up pretty sweet. What did you do from there? From like, it's one thing to transform a bus, it's another thing to use that as a tool to get attention on public lands and advocacy for them. So how did you go about figuring out how to do that? That seems like the trickler one almost, Yeah for sure. So the you know, obviously through my social channels like just continue to kind of like preach that message. But one of the connections that I made at I believe it was at a t a show. Um, a friend of mine introduced me to um an editor at outdoor Life, and then he introduced me to Andrew McKean, who was also at outdoor Life. And McKeen and I started talking back and forth about the project, and you know, he was working on getting sponsors for it and stuff, and that just didn't really work. And I was like, well, I'm doing this project regardless, and so we put together a deal where created four videos for this public land bus project. And to be totally honest, like by the of the first year, like I really wasn't getting at the end of that first fall that I had the bus it like you know, it was it was cool, and people liked it, and you know, like you know, it's kind of this whatever fun rig or whatever. But I was almost ready to be done with, you know, driving a school bus around the country. And then all of the videos and articles and everything for outdoor Life hit and that's when it really picked up the pace and like just the number of the just the amount of traction for lack of better terms, that that project got and kind of like escalated and and pushed it to the forefront. And like this now this bus has become a symbol for public Lands. It led to all sorts of other projects, including a whole series for on x maps, and a bunch of my former clients who were excited about it and didn't come through like jumped on board and wanted to be part of it and wanted to push it and wanted to help about it and wanted to talk about it. And so you know, this this initial project turned you know that my original goal was to have the bus for a year and that ended up turning into about three years UM and you know a lot of time spent the school bus driving around the country. But it it just took one, you know, it just took Andrew McKean believing in this whole idea and helping push it out there for me to to spread the word. Yeah, that's awesome. Now. I know you've you've talked about bust life and all those trips and the different things you've done since, you know, on a lot of different podcasts in different places. So I know you don't want to belabor that too much, but if you look back on those years from this vantage point, like what's the biggest what was the biggest takeaway for you? Just on like the adventure side, or the bus life side. Uh, you know, like what stands out now today as either something you would that you love the memory or you hate the memory of, or that you would tell people to think about if they ever consider something crazy like this, what would that be? You know? I think, like looking back at it all now, it like it's it's some of the best years of that I've had in my short life. And you know, I definitely do not regret doing it at all. I think the biggest shift in my own brain that I had to make was the the time and just the the the time it took to a one get from A to B, and then just the time that it took to like kind of let this whole thing organically grow. Um. And so you know, my brother put it a good ways, like just remember when you're driving that thing, like it's more like sailing, Like you're just you're not gonna get anywhere fast. You're just kind of letting the world pass you by, like you're not really passing the world, Like you're just kind of out there cruising doing this thing. And I think just through the course of like you know, many many road trips in the bus and just getting you know, like really soaking in each and every one of these experiences. It just it taught me to kind of slow down, and you know, everything in our life is so fast paced. I think the bus taught me is slowed down and just really see what was going around on around me more so than then. I mean even now, like I'll admit that I'm guilty of, you know, getting lost in my phone or whatever it might be. Those the time that I was focused on this project definitely helped me. Um, yeah, just see the world around me a little bit better. Yeah, yeah, I can see that for sure. So so what happened from there? You you moved on from the public Land bus eventually to the public Land van. Yes, and what's that next step? Yeah, so that was pretty exciting because it's, uh, you know, Josh and I have always been in the you know, hunting together and he owned the store and I was doing all the content stuff, and the transitioning from the bus to the van was an opportunity for us to do more stuff together. And so not only is it that, you know, going from a full size bus to a van, like you can drive a lot more places, but you can get there quicker, a little quieter, you know, there's a lot of positives to going from a forty ft vehicle down to a twenty one ft vehicle that has four wheel drive, but um, yeah, it was just it was kind of a way to continue the mission and continue the idea and behind you know, creating awareness around public lands and and um, all things conservation. And it gave us, Josh and I the opportunity to have this project together and build out kind of the the ultimate hunting van for lack of a better term. So it was it was since we've been you know, grew up in this whole thing together, it was kind of a cool way to um bring our paths back to the same road and uh and build the band together. And then you know, Josh and I have been owners of public landees together since its inception, when the bus project launched, and so to have him kind of come on full time and do this all together has been pretty cool. So the van is you know, same color scheme, a lot of the same elements that came from the bus. We we brought over into the into the van, the pine and the um, you know, some tin and some different stuff that we used in the bus to kind of like continue that message and create that awareness around all the things that we're trying to educate people on. Yeah, so, so on that education front, like, what have the other things been? What are some highlights of of what you guys have been pushing over these years both you know, I know you started with a lot around simply public lands and that was during the land transfer movement and everything. Since then, as things have evolved, I know you've talked about other things. You've talked about duck stamps, a lot um and more. What what are some of the where are the highlights there since? Yeah, so we when we started the company, obviously you're right, it was it was very surrounding that the land transfer legislation and all that type of stuff. But as we've evolved, like it, I think the most fun that we've had is creating some of these initiatives that leverage UM systems that are already in place to kind of bring awareness to like, like you said, like the duck stamp. We started the Stamp It Forward project, which is a way to UM basically raise a whole pile of money to purchase federal duck stamps, which by law of that money has to go towards habitat conservation, wetland purchase, extension of the National Refuge System and like that has been a very cool project. And then uh, you know are I don't know if you want me to talk about our most recent initiative right now, but um, we've we just continue to try to find new and creative ways in the conservation space to raise money to give back to all these organizations that fight to improve habitat, improve access and protect hunting heritage every single day. Yeah, you've been doing a really good job of it too. I mean it has been really fun to watch from Afar and see what you're doing and see the see the real impact you're having. Um. And that's that's that's the funny thing. I think when you get involved in this kind of stuff, it's easy to think so often like oh what can I do? Um? These problems seems so big and so above me? And so you know it's something that you watch on TV, you read about in the news. But I think for for a lot of us, you know, myself included, at times you can feel like, geez, what can little little all I do? And what's that been? I mean, what's this period been like for you? Now? That you've seen what you have been able to do. I mean, what have you learned about yourself for the I don't know, conservation as a as a calling, or or as the hunting community. I don't know what what on that front stands out to you. Yeah, I think that's been the biggest The biggest thing, one of the biggest things I've learned is is how much impact each individual person can have. So like our company public Land Tease, five dollars from every single item we sell, which is in the purchase price, five dollars from every item we sell is donated back to different conservation organizations or projects, and you know, so we couldn't do anything that we do without our customer base. So, like, the real hero of this whole story is people that have been following this journey and have chosen to support us, like through the purchase of merchandise, which then we turn and take that money and we we donate it back into into different causes, different projects, different organizations that need this critical funding to do all these things. Um and so I but when I when we first started this whole thing, like I was totally overwhelmed, Like I really didn't know much about how the system all worked, you know, is learning Like as I went UM really felt like I was like, man, is this are we actually going to be able to do anything? Like? Are there enough people that care about this stuff? Is there enough like our I mean, do I have a big enough platform to even like like change anything. And that's been the coolest thing to watch is the people that have been following along with everything that we're up to, the people that have chosen to donate, support, jump in share all this stuff, Like it only takes a few people to kind of get the ball rolling. And and as that ball grows, as that snowball just keeps moving and growing and growing and more people are sharing it and talking about whatever it is. It blows me away every single day to watch this collective community make a difference time and time again, whether it be UM, you know, raising money for a specific project or simply picking up the phone and calling or emailing about, you know, in favor of or against the specific bill UM you know, people just educating themselves on you know, or receiving whatever a newsletter or whatever it is from these organizations, all these different things, and people like jumping on board individually and watching that snowball into this massive wave of impact um as we go forward, and you know, I can't tell you how many times I've seen the sportsmen and women of this country rally together around issues and I mean really cause massive change in a hurry. Yeah. Yeah, man, It's been a heck of a five six year period now where we've we've been seeing some strong examples like that that have been really cool to to watch and to be a part of. And and like you said, it's that snowball effect is kind of crazy when you realize it's happening and you step in, like, whoa, there's something, there's a movement here, there's some fire here, and uh, when that happens, good things, good things tend to follow. So I think that's a perfect segue too to the larger reason why I thought you'd be the perfect I to talk to here, because it's this whole idea of like, what can you do that I wanted to talk about today because you know, this is this is week four of what I was calling Conservation Month here on the wire Tunt podcast is the spring. You know, there's not a whole lot of crazy stuff going on in the white tail world. It's a great time to step back and think about, you know, how do we ensure that the resources, the places, the critters that we care about so much are around in the future so that we we can still hunt, so that we can share this with our kids or grandkids someday. And we've talked public lands, We've talked private lands, We've talked policy and legislation and all these different ideas and concepts and debates. But through a lot of this stuff, and and you talked about it, and I felt it too, Like you can so many times feel like, Okay, yeah that makes sense. Okay, yeah that's a bad thing, or you know, that's a good thing. I'd love to see that move forward. But what in the world can I do today or what can I actually do here in Michigan or Montana or Maine or wherever it is. So my idea, if you're game for the SAM, is for us to layout ten specific ways, ten specific actions that folks could take, you know, today or over the next few weeks or this year that could actually make a positive difference for conservation. And this could be private land, it could be public land, it could be a lot of different things. Um, So I've got a handful of that of ideas. Do you have a handful that we could run through and see if we can come up with with ten real slid action will take aways today? Yeah, I think I'm totally game for that. All right? Do you wanna? I was thinking maybe we we just pitch one out, talk about it, and then go back and forth. You want to lead the way? Do you've got a great do you have a good opener for us? Well? Pressures on here because if it's a bad one, then I think I do because this, I mean obviously, this, this one is what I've been focusing all my all my efforts on for you know, the better part of like three or four months now. So, um, if people are looking at getting involved in conservation, like, hands down, the easiest way to do it is to join uh an organization and the you can you can stop me anytime, but that you can join an organization. And one of our our latest initiative is a way for people to get involved on a on a bigger level. So obviously one go out and join any organization, find a species you're passionate about. I can almost guarantee there's a conservation group that is dedicated to protecting that species. But our initiative that we just came out with a few weeks ago now is the Conservation Crossing Initiative, and it allows people to go to our website by a single T shirt and automatically be enrolled in an annual membership for five organizations, which include back Country Hunters and Anglers, Delta Waterfowl, National Wild Turkey Federation, the Mule They Foundation, and Pheasants Forever all at one time. It's bucks so um but yeah, so so that's I love it. I love the idea. I'm I'm looking forward to getting my T shirt here and the mail sometimes soon. I finally I finally signed up and and got in on it. Um, What's I mean? This is an obvious one, right, but it's also one that probably a lot of people pay lip service to more than they actually do. I mean, I've been guilty of that at times. I've always been a member of a couple. But there's so many great organizations out there that it's easy to forget this one or that one, and easy to forget how important it is for people to be doing that and sending in their money. I mean, as you've gone through this project, yourself. What have you learned about the importance of people just getting signed up and how much that helps these these organizations. Yeah, I think the cool part is understanding that when you become a member of one of these organizations, so typical typical annual membership to a conservation group is thirty five dollars. So, but that thirty five dollars, it goes a whole lot further than just getting you those benefits which every single group has, whether it be there you know, a magazine five or six times a year, or you know, you get the membership card and a decal, and a lot of times there's discounts to their partners and that type of stuff. But what these organizations are able to do is because they're so membership based. Let's say, let's take the National Wale Turkey Federation. It's spring, its spring Turkey season. So if you join the National Wald Turkey Federation, whether it be an individual you know, membership or through our conservation crossing program, n BTF can leverage those funds to work with partners or grants and all of these things to basically take that thirty five dollar donation and triple it, quadruple it or five exit based on people matching donations. So you know, the more members that each group has, the more the more money overall they can raise because they have these partners that are like, okay, if you get you know, a hundred thousand members, I will match up to X number of dollars for you know, like to add to the pot. And so I think that's been kind of the biggest eye opener to me, is like that thirty five dollars or that through conservation crossing, Like it goes so much further than that initial investment. Yeah, that's a great point. And you know, from a benefit standpoint for like the individual, maybe the biggest thing I found is is, yeah, the magazines are nice, and it's it's great to donate that money and help from a financial perspective. But what I've found might be the biggest benefit with this membership is just like the pipeline of information and opportunities that comes from joining one of these groups. So when whenever I hear folks wondering or emailing me or messaging me like hey, how how can I get involved? How can I do something? This is always the first thing I mentioned too, because by doing this one action becoming a member, you you do what you just described, you financially, you know, benefit these groups in a big way and they can then use those dollars and have exponential impacts. But then you get all this information that is so important and actually being able to do anything, like if you don't know the issues, if you don't know about this action or this you know, opportunity, or this piece of property that's threatened, Like if you can't be aware of those things, you can't do anything about it. And it's so hard to keep track of all this stuff, like any one of us is so busy in our everyday lives, Like how in the world can I keep track of every important issue when it comes to deer or pheasants or public lands or the rivers that I care about, or trout or turkeys or whatever it is. I mean, it's it's impossible to scan the web every day all day and read all those things and stay up on it. And so these organizations they do that for you, right, I mean, h v h A is a great example, and that they're you know, sending out their newsletters giving the information, or they're sharing stuff on social media, or you know, they have action alerts to get you going on specific things. And and many of these organizations do the same thing. Um, you know, it's the pipeline for all these other things, don't you think? Oh yeah, absolutely? And then I think in addition to that, like so you get all of this information that you can act on. But the other thing that it does is regardless of which organization you join, it immediately connects you to the local community because there's always a local chapter of whatever national chapter you're joining. So let's you know, if it's b h A, they'll send you an email with oh you could you know, here's the local chapter, here's the events that they have in your area, here's the people that are involved with that. And so anybody that joins one of these organizations UH is immediately connected to like minded people that live near them. So you know, maybe you don't go hunting together, and maybe you don't you know, like share you share your honey hoole spots or whatever, but it does put you in touch with people that you could go do a river clean up day, or you could go volunteer together and pull fence out and you know on some mulder project, or you could you know, go grab a beer together and talk about hunting tactics or you know, you name it. There's a million things that happen once you get plugged into that community that surrounds all of these different groups too. Yeah, so true and man for for new hunters. This is another one I get all the time. I'm a new hunter and I want to meet you know, I want to meet other people that do this kind of stuff because no one in my family or friends does. Right, I need a mentor or I just want to be around like minded people and I'm a new in town or something like. Right here, join one of these groups, connect with the local chapter branch, and bam, just like that, You're You're in. You're in right right, You've got an opportunity for mentorship. You've got an opportunity for new buddies that you know, maybe you do get a beer, you go hunting or fishing together, maybe you do actually have ways now to do some work on the ground. It's it's kind of like the super like the silver bullet for this kind of stuff, that this is the gateway that gets you into so many different things. I mean, right there, if you're not a member of you know, a handful of these you do it. That's it's such an easy way to get started, and so many of the good things come from it. Um Why why was it these five organizations that are part of the conservation crossing any particular reason or is it just that they were the ones willing to do this? What was what's the story there? No that Uh, we definitely picked them out intentionally, and it's a way. It was a way to kind of cover the masses, right, so, like not only species wise but country wise. So you have the Mucler Foundation and you know, Backcountry Owners and Anglers is primarily focused on a lot of Western type stuff. Even though there's local chapters nationwide, there's still a lot of Montana. So you have a couple of you have an advocacy public Land and Water group Backcountry Owners and Anglers, so you kind of cover that western um like western focus as well as the mule deer, which is you know, a Western big game animal and aspirational hunt for a lot of people that are in the East. And then you have National Wild Turkey Federation, which if I did the research last spring, and second to the white tailed deer, turkeys are the second most pursued species of game, so you have you know, literally millions of people that turkey hunt and uh so it only made sense to reach out to the n b TF as they are the foremost organization when it comes to turkey hunting, heritage, turkey habitat restoration, all those things. Um, you have Pheasants Forever, which we've collaborated within the past and worked on their build wildlife area campaigns. They do a lot of amazing habitat work and they have a really unique model when it comes to their conservation group where the local chapters have they get to choose where one of the locally raised funds go for projects, and so they have thousands and thousands of volunteers. And so we cover that upland side of things, which not only helps upland bird species, but every other species because most of what Pheasants Forever is doing on these landscapes is planning more grass, working on riparian areas, adding water sources, which not only you know, of course is going to help upland game species, but everything else. Um. And then delta waterfowl and we've collaborated with delta waterfowl in the past as well. But I mean, you can't have one of you can't have this massive collaboration without a organization that's focused on a migrating species um, and so we really try to kind of spread it out and cover as much ground and as much different influence as possible to really highlight like how important each group is individually, but more so like kind of that old analogy that you know, a high tide raises all ships type of thing that if you can kind of spread that wealth out and collaborate together, like it's going to help every single person, every single species across the board. Yeah, yeah, very true. You know another thing I kind of noticed, and I don't know if this was by design or not, but you know, when you look at something like mule deer or pheasants um or even turkeys, you're for you. For a handful of years now, I've been hearing rumblings about turkey populations declining in different parts of the country and some issues there um mule deer especially, but pheasants with with CRP declining in a lot of states and all the different things pressuring mule You're like, these are some species that needs some extra love right now too, and sometimes don't get as much attention as you know, I mean white tailed deer soak up a lot of attention in the room. So I love the fact that by looping in some of these other groups, it's it's given the love where there's a little bit extra needed, and uh, it makes it easy, you know. Sometimes it's oh, it's what do they call the opt in effect or the opt out effect? Like if you were to, you know, send someone, oh, I don't know, an email in which they are automatically if the button is already pressed, like to opt into becoming a member of something, or to sign up for a newsletter, you'll get way more people to sign up for that newsletter then if you sent them that same thing, but the button for it says, you know, you have to actually select the button to opt in versus select the button opt out. Like if you make it a default choice people, it just becomes easier for folks is to go along with it. And so in this case, you made it really easy for people to go along with something that's good. Excuse me, that's good and that is um you know, if you ed instead said, hey, pick however many conservation groups you want to join with the purchase of this shirt and make it a lot more challenging for people and make it a little bit more inconvenient, and people probably wouldn't sign up for, you know, some of these other species maybe that they don't you know, don't chase every day, or don't have experience with. So it was just a smart, well put together idea, and I love that it's happening. And um, you know, i'd say go out there, get the shirt, become a member, and then tack on some other memberships too. I mean, ah, there's so many great organizations out there. The National Deer Association, of course is a great one. Um, there's plenty of good places to send your your time and attention and funding you know, as as available. So I love it. It's a great one to start with. Sam, Yeah, awesome. So I think that the one I would pitch next is a is a very clear kind of next step from what you just suggested. You know, you said join the organization, and I'm going to say, do the next step after you join the organization, which is something you you mentioned a little bit, which is volunteering. So this year i'd encourage everyone, if you haven't before, volunteer for your first on the ground conservation project. And this is something that is, you know, a lot easier to do you if you're involved in one of these groups, because I think it comes back to what we talked about earlier. It's the knowing excuse me had had one too many lunchtime bubbly drinks. I guess what I'm trying to say here is knowing when those opportunities come up, like where can I volunteer? When can I volunteer? That's the hard part. A lot of people want to do something, but knowing like, Okay, this Saturday, there's a thing within an hour of me, I can go do it. That's the trick. So when you sign up, get ahold of a local branch or chapter or regional director or whoever it is, and just let them know that, Hey, I'm a member now i'd love to know about volunteer opportunities. UM. I think that's the easiest way because it's it's hard to otherwise track these things down. So just send out a note saying hey, I'd like to do something, and you're gonna be amazed, I think by how many opportunities there are to do it. I can tell you that I I reached out to our national Deer Association Regional director, or he used to be called the regional director. He's got some other fancy titled now about grassroots or something. His name is Josh Hilliard. You might know him. UM. And I asked him like, hey, what kind of things are available here in our home state right now? And he sent me a whole list of different opportunities for people in Michigan. And I'm sure there's something similar in in all sorts of different states. So, for example, in May fifteenth, there's a big river clean up being put on by Michigan's Chapter of back Country Hunters and Anglers. There's going to be volunteer opportunities at the Back forty property here in Michigan, put on by the National Deer Association. Of course, everyone listening to this knows all about the Back forty. Um. There's an organization called the muc SE Michigan United Conservation Uh. Jeez, I'm blanking on my acronyms here, but they've got this uh on the ground and on the water volunteer programs where they've got i mean, dozens of different habitat projects like this where you can go out and you know, help plant something or help put treason or help burn or help do different things on the ground to to actually make a difference. So this is one of those things that I think ties into what you said to Sam, the whole connecting with people thing, because if you go out and do one of these volunteer opportunities, there's another great opportunity to meet folks, to get tapped into the community, and who knows where that leads. So, um, so that's my second My second action is this year, try to actually go do one of those on the ground projects. If we all do that, there's a whole lot of good stuff happening out there. And and I guess, you know, if you don't want to do that, or if for some reason your schedule is crazy and you just can't commit to someone else's you know, calendar, plan a day on the property you hunt to go pick up trash or something like that. Like one on the ground thing, I think is a really great goal for all of us that a in them this year. Um that would be my first suggestion. Yeah, No, I like that a lot. And I you know, I've spent so much time kind of doing like these big, huge projects raising awareness that I haven't done as much like volunteer boots on the groundwork as I want, So like going forward, that's definitely gonna be high on my priority list of like really getting into these things and uh, you know, showing how awesome it is just to go out there and and do these boots on the ground activities. But yeah, I like that one a lot. Yeah, what are you going next? So I touched on a little bit earlier and he said that I talked a lot about duck stamps, and so I think that's I think that's a way I want to talk about the duck stamp and how that's a no brainer for anybody who is looking to be involved at a very simple level. Um, so for anybody that doesn't know what the federal duck stamp is, it is a if you water found hunt. By law, you have to purchase a federal duck stamp. And the cool thing about that is it was started in it's the Federal Migratory Bird Act, and by law of the purchase price of a federal duck stamp has to be allocated to improving or purchasing more wetlands, which obviously helps with migratory bird species, but also helps with soil erosion, water quality, flooding, um and and helps roughly seven hundred species overall, like through just improving or maintaining current wetlands or adding more wetlands. So the cool thing about the duck stamp, though, is it's you. I think my favorite thing about it is you don't have to be a member of something. You don't have to have a hunter safety card, you don't have to have a license before you buy it. There is the barrier to entry to purchasing this and having and knowing that almost of the money you just spent is going to conservation is is amazing, Like there's there's really nothing other There's no other like system put in place that that much money is designated to conservations. So it's just a very simple way for people that are looking for a way to get involved in conservation just to know that they did a major thing simply by either going to the post office and by a duck stamp or hopping on the US Fish and Wildlife Service website and buying one online. UM, the barrier to entry, the hurdles that you have to cross are so low to take that step. I think it's one of my favorite programs that we talk a lot about. And even if you I mean you said it, even if you don't duck hunt, it's it's still something you can and and it's worth doing, right, Yeah, I think especially if you don't duck hunt, I mean, if you're a waterfowl hunter, you have to buy one. So it's it's something that you know, like you don't really think about it. You're like, oh, it's just part of my tag. But if you're an if you're not a waterfowl hunter, it's just as important, if not more important, to purchase it. Because if we could get like collectively, anybody who goes and hunts anything to buy a duck stamp every year, like the funding for these massive tracks of wetlands, like the funding would not be a problem, and there would be more waterfowl and more birds and more animals than we would know what to do with. Yeah, you know, it's such a good idea. I wonder why there isn't something like this for other projects, other species, you know, Like why isn't there a public land stamp? It's super cool. Yeah. I think what it comes down to is the people in that hunt or fish. I think they feel they don't see it as an investment in the future. I think we have done a badge. Like feels like a tax, you know, it feels like a tax on this activity that we all do. And I think that's just poor edge, Like you know, the assist I'm doing a bad job on educating people about how important all of these things are. So it's, uh, it's the same reason that every time license prices and everything go up, it's you know, you hear a lot of griping about that, but every time I buy a hunting or fishing license, I just look at it as a concert ticket to the greatest show that I get to attend every single day. Yeah, yeah, I think that's I think that's spot on. And like there's a lot of taxes we can grape about and we want to, and it's it's that's fair. I mean, I get it, I've done it. I'm there. But if there's anything on the pay extra for, Like if there's anything in the world I'd be happy to pay a little extra for, it's this stuff. I mean, anyone who's listening to this has a love for the outdoors and hunting and wild things, and I don't know, you can't put a price tag on that stuff. As far as I'm concerned, I'll, you know, whatever I've got to do to to to pony up to keep this stuff around and and inaccessible and healthy, and gosh, I'd much rather spending money on that than an xbox or a new TV or whatever, a bunch of beer. I mean, this is this is money well spent. As much as I like, I couldn't agree more. Um So what else. Let's see what would be another good one. So here's here's one, and this is this is a much more This is much more of a commitment. The first couple of things we've talked here are pretty easy to tackle for anyone out there. It's a low lift. I mean, I think everyone could go and do those first three things today. My next suggestion is going to be one that is applicable to a much smaller portion of folks listening, and it was going to take a lot more thought. It's going to take some serious planning and some legal work and thinking. So take this with a grain of salt. But something that we've talked about over the last few weeks has just been this endless um cycle of developed right. I mean, every year, more and more wild places and open spaces are paved over, their subdivide and built up. Um, they disappear. I'm sure, Sam, there's places from your childhood that, like you can remember playing in or exploring that. Now we're a Walmart or a housing development or who knows what, right I mean, that's it's just happening. Um. There's actually a new feature that Google Earth just put out last week which allows you to go back almost thirty years. You can do like a time lapse feature of I Think anywhere in America, in anywhere in the world I think, and you can see how the aerial photography. Can look at the aerial photography of a place and see how it changes over the last thirty years. And if you go and and look at your favorite hunting spot, or look at some place that you care about, or look at anywhere randomly in America, if you zoom back to what it looked like in nineteen eight or whatever that first date is, and then you start fast forwarding through time, I can tell you what you're gonna see. You're gonna see more buildings, more roads, more pavement, and less and less green, less and less grasslands and forests and water and rivers and wetlands and and all that good stuff that we care about, Like, that's just the reality of what's happening. So I think that one of the big big things that we as hunters and anglers and outdoors people can do is is try to be one of those positive forces to slow that tide. There's a bunch of ways we can do it, um but one that has been discussed a little bit over the last couple of weeks is this idea of a conservation easement, and so conservation easement, if you miss those earlier episodes, these are there's a bunch of different ways this can happen, a bunch of different programs you can go through, but basically there are voluntary programs in which if you own land, if you've got a hunting camp or a back forward of your own um or or whatever, if you own land, you can voluntarily sell the develop mint rights to that property so that in the future it can't be developed. Basically, you are saying like, hey, this is a place that's really special to me, and I want to make sure that after I'm dead and gone, it's not gonna be turned into a shopping mall. I want to make sure that after I'm dead and gone, this is still wild. There's still deer out here, there's still pheasants out here, or whatever it is. Um, I want to keep it, you know, this wild special place that's been so important to me and my kids and whatever it is in your situation. So these programs allow you to enter a legal contract in which you maintain ownership of the property. You maintain all your same world rights that to do what you want to do there. It's not like you're giving free access to the property or anything. It's just basically saying like, hey, we're putting this regulation on this property that into perpetuity. Um. You know, there will be no development of this property, there will no be no subdivision of this property. There will not be any kind of um impacts to this that would remove the natural qualities of the property. And there's there's all such different little caveats you can throw in there. You can say, you know, I want to keep this ten acres available to still build or add onto my house or build a cabin or whatever. Like. There's you can set all these things ahead of time. But what it allows you to do is to make sure that the next people fifty years from now, maybe you don't know if they're gonna care about conservation. You don't know if they're gonna um care about the white tails or the ducks or whatever. But you since you own this place right now, you have this special opportunity to put your lasting kind of fingerprints on that wild space. And so you can do this. There's some government programs you can do these. There's some private land conservation trusts. UM. There's a lot of different ways to do it. UM. Sometimes you can be compensated and paid for this. They'll actually buy the rights, they'll buy this conservation easement. UM. You can also do this as a donation, like for example, Ducks Unlimited has a conservation easement program where you can donate the conservation asian excuse me, you can donate the conservation easement two du and then they kind of manage the monitoring of it and the some of the logistics of it. Uh. And it's it's just a really cool way to make sure that your special place stay special and conserved into the future. Not saying this is for everyone, I understand there's like a lot of logistics they have to go around this. But if you own land, my encouragement would be for you to look into it, do a little googling, read up on the conservation easement programs available where your property is. Uh. This is something that I'm going to start looking into, um and seeing if this is a good fit maybe for our family camp. Um. And I mean there's there's a lot to it, but I'm just gonna pitch you on learn more, do some reading, do some googling, see if this is a good fit, because I think it's a great way that us as hunters that that have a lot of land. I mean the number that I keep on bringing up is something like three fifties some million acres across the country are either owned or least or managed for hunting. Million plus acres of land are kind of underneath our influence of sorts. So that's a big footprint that we could have a lasting impact on. Uh. So there's my pitch, consider conservation easement. Um. And I think it's I just think it's one of those special kinds of ways we can make a long term impact that takes a little time but could last a long time. Um. What do you think about that one? Sam? I think that's awesome. You know, if it's always been a dream of mine to have a piece of property at some point. And I think, you know, if I ever actually make it happen and be able to go down that road, I think the conservation easement thing is is something I'll definitely look into, uh, you know, to protect it for the future, and like you said, like I would have, you know, set it up in a way where, you know, if I pass it on to my kids or their kids or however it works down the road, like make it so it's still available for them to you know, have areas where they can build a new cabin or whatever it might be, um but but protected in perpetuity so it's always going to be a wild place. That's that's really cool. Yeah, I mean talk about the worst nightmare. Can you imagine being like you have someplace that you've that you've loved and steward it and worked on and spend all this time building up, and then you pass away and if you were watching it from the grave, can I can just I mean, when I think about it myself, I think about our family hunting camp up in northern Michigan. We call it ken Rov and it's it's the forty acres that like formed me. It is foundational to I who I am, and the idea of fifty years from now, someone coming in there and who knows what the world's gonna look like in fifty years. But what if there was a big city kind of slowly easing its way towards there, and all of a sudden someday they said, you know, we're gonna we're gonna chop us all up into one acre lots and put houses there. I mean, I would be rolling over in my grave for two thousand years if that were to happen. So so this is this is just a great way to make sure something that doesn't UM. So there's there's my idea. What what's next for you saying, let's see, I'm gonna go back to something that's not quite so heavy lifting like you said, but this one is just go I'm sure you've talked about this before, but just go shopping and it's gonna sound weird, but more specifically for specifically, you know, if we're talking you know, a stimulus, all this stuff get the economy going. But more more specifically, go shopping for guns, ammo if you can find it, archery equipment, fishing gear, um anything with it kind of held in that space. And I'm sure you've talked about this before on the podcast, but anytime you buy a gun, you buy Ammo, you buy a bow, you buy arrows, all of those things have a federal excise tax on them which goes into the Pitman Robertson Fund and it's somewhere between ten and eleven depending on what the item is, and that is taxed at the manufacturer level, So I mean, obviously that cost is just passed down to the consumer, but it's a self inflicted tax from way back that goes into a fund, and then those funds can be applied for by state agencies, organizations, all of these people that are working on habitat access easements, all these different things, and every time you go out and purchase one of these things, that money goes in there, and then that money gets funneled to these projects to help improve habitat management, wildlife management, hunting heritage all across the country. So that's a pretty easy one. Most people that are listening to this probably like purchasing new guns, you know, new bows, Ammo, all that stuff, and you can you can rest a little easier knowing that you know, a chunk of that is going to protect the places and and you know, give back to the places that you want to protect. Yeah, this is what I call the significant other silver bullet. So you can say, you can you can tell your wife or or whatever that, hey, you know what, I had to buy that new gun because I care about conservation and this is a way to do that. Um right there. It's all about the story. And this gives you great story because it is a really great program and and Pittman Robbers Robertson. I mean, it's it's another example of of how, you know, we hunters have kind of agreed to self taxation of assorts. You know, back in the in the forties, when this stuff was all coming around thirties and forties, you know, it was it was folks at that time being willing to say, all right, you know, we'll get behind a piece of legislation like this because we care about this stuff and we're willing to pay a little extra. And um man, I'm glad that folks were willing to do it back then because it's I mean, it's paying for the lion's share of a lot of this management work that needs to be done. These programs on the ground. I mean a lot of that comes from these PR dollars. So so yeah, pat yourself on the backs, be easy, feel good about it. Um. And I guess if you're out there doing that, if you're shopping someplace that allows you to round up for conservation, which a lot of companies are doing these days, a lot of stories are doing. Um, go ahead and do that too. That's another one, right, yep, yep, that is another one, so perfect. I like it. I'm going shopping. Um all right, here's another one. And this is this one's gonna be easy to do. Uh, take a little bit of time just to think about it. But this is related to that same idea of how we're losing wild places, right, And this is related to one of the ideas that we talked about with Randy a couple of weeks ago, and we talked about this with Witt Fostburgh last week. And this is the thirty by thirty initiative. Sam, have you heard anything about that, read anything about thirty by thirty? Familiar with that? I am a little bit. I haven't done the deep dive into it because it's so fresh. Yep. So anyone who's listened to those other episodes already knows the basic gist, so I don't want to preach about too much, but basically, it's this top level goal that kind of started internationally within the scientific community and has been picked up now in America by by a variety different conservationists, environmental and conservation organizations, and now some politicians basically pitching that to prevent you know, the series of extinctions and declining wildlife populations that we've been seeing and that that are are absolutely happening across the world and even here in America, to prevent that from getting worse, we need to set a goal of conserving of our land and water by twenty So it's setting like a big audacious goal and something to work towards. And so uh, as you guys have heard me talk about, I'm really excited about kind of the opportunity this presents folks like us in the conservation community community to get on the offensive. So much of the time, you know, Sam, like with the whole land transfer movement and all that five years, it was defense, like these guys are trying to come and take away our land. They're trying to sell these places or transfer them and denude them and deteriorate them. So we gotta play defense. This is the opposite. This is like, hey, you know what, we stopped that. Now let's go out and make sure that more places have some form of conservation and protection on them to make sure that we don't lose more. Um So, who better to take a leadership position in this than us than hunters. I would rather like us. We should be in that conversation. The hunters and anglers should be part of this. Um you know, I know there's some concern around you know what if some folks within you know, different sides of the environmental movement have too much of us say on things and they're gonna make it this and that, and we're not gonna like it, or they're not gonna allow hunting, or they're not gonna whatever. I mean, there's all sorts of things you could say. So let's just be a part of the conversation and make sure that those things don't happen. So my suggestion, my action and for people is to number one, learn about this stuff some more. Go to hunt fish thirty dot com. That's this website that's been put together that features basically a a position statement from the hunting and fishing community that's been approved and signed off on by basically name any hunting or fishing conservation organization out there and they're on this list, And this position statement basically says, hey, we see thirty by thirty as a great opportunity. We the hunting and fishing community have been leaders in the conservation space for decades and we want to support this and see this as a great opportunity to protect more places. But we want to make sure our voice is hurt. So let's make sure we're thinking about some important things like maintaining hunting and fishing access in these newly conservative protected lands, um making sure there's clear ways to define what counts as conservator protected, and making sure things like private land conservation easements would be counted, because hey, there's a huge opportunity with those types of things. So my suggestion is one, go to the website hunt Phish thirty thirty dot com, read up on this stuff, and then number two, email your two senators and say, hey, I want to make sure you know about thirty by thirty and I want to make sure you're listening to hunting and Fishing position on it and copy and pay some stuff out of that website. That position statement I'm talking about really easy. All you gotta do is punching your centator's names, copying some information from that position statement, shoot it on out. I think this is one of those things that over the next you know, eight nine years, could be one of these big success stories we're talking about, just like you know, you and I Sam can talk about the success that we had, you know, as a community with the land transfer movement and you know, the whole Chavet's Bill and how we shut that down. All the different good things have come out of the public land awareness renaissance. Why don't we go and go on the offensive with that same energy and be able to look back, you know, onies and same man over that eight nine year period, look at all of the progress we made, look at how we made sure that there's gonna be more wild places around that we're not going to lose all these spots that we care about. That your old fishing hole isn't going to disappear, That that spot you learned duck hunt isn't going to be gone, That that patch of pines that I taught my son to turkey hunt, is going to be here down the road. Um. That stuff really gets me excited. And I think this is there's this momentum around this idea, in this goal. Let's latch onto it and be a part of it versus just watching someone else here it. Um that's my idea, Sam. Yeah, no, I I love that. And like you said, I mean just go on the offensive. I mean so like again, like so often, our whole industry community is reactive and not you know, not planning for the future. I mean they are to some extent, but again it's mostly like something happens and we have to you know, the world's on fire, we have to react to it. So um, yeah, no, I think that. I think that's great. So, like Mark said, go to that website, learn about that, and get involved. Yeah yeah, I think it's I think it's gonna be a really interesting thing to follow and be a part of. So stay tuned more on that. What are you go next? So, uh, this one is something that is pretty easy to do. Um, but I I'm gonna talk a little bit about it. And it's it's all of us are so involved these days on social media, whether it be Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, you name it. There's a million different platforms or you know, blogs, podcasts, all those things. I would encourage people to spend more time and effort posting about and talking about conservation issues. Now, I will warn you when you post about these things, when you talk about these things, you will get about zero engagement. And that's not as exciting as the big buck picture. Huh No, it's not. It's not. It's not as exciting, but as the big buck picture, it's not. It's it's not sexy conservation. It's not a sexy thing. Uh And so you know, I've seen it time and time again. The more I talk and preach about conservation like, the lower my engagement rate is. But I'm going to continue to do it. And I think that if we can get more people on board talking about it. You know, whether it be a volunteer weekend that you went and participated in, or you know, something that you just donated to, or you know, you went to a banquet and you did this, or you know it helped raise money for this project, whatever it might be, talk about it, Tell your friends, tell your buddies, because you never know who you might inspire to also do something like that. So I think just posting about these things that you can do in a positive light, like you're going to be posting something anyway, maybe splashing a little bit of conservation. It's a pretty easy way for everyone to get involved and to kind of keep that message moving forward. Yeah, now you've done this more than most. Do you have any suggestions on I don't know how to do it right, because there should you. I don't know whether that be the medium that you use like picture or video or written, or how you talk about this stuff or what you share is I don't know anything you've learned about telling these stories, sharing these things online that that's useful or helpful to do it in a better way. Yeah, I think the most important part is to just not be like trying it to be too preachy about it, because the last thing, you know, like he nobody likes just getting talked at um. But maybe just talk about like your involvement in it, Like if you're posting about it, just be like, oh, you know, I joined this organization and I went out and I you know, did a river clean up over the weekend, and you know, like collectively we hauled out you know, like thirty seven bags of trash or whatever, like anything like that just kind of always just posted in a positive light. I think that's probably the best way to do it without being like, oh, I did this, why aren't you all? You know, like, don't try to condemn anybody for for not speaking up about it. I guess it's probably the best way to go about that's good. Yeah, yeah, it's it's funny. There's there's this it's it's present in a lot of different communities. But there's this kind of like social proof for social momentum kind of thing that happens with this type of deal where if you if enough folks, like the public lands thing is a perfect example, Like during that whole period or on the land transfer movement, so many people started talking about public land and public land access issues that it all of a sudden became like the thing. It became like, if you're not tapped in on this, if you don't realize what's going on, if you're not you know, doing your part, you're missing out, Like you're you're outside of the of the community. Now, if you weren't kind of involved in that, there's a certain I mean, saying it's trendy is kind of negative, but I guess if you if some if being trendy could ever be good, I would say, like making conservation trendy is a damn good place to do it. Um. So, if enough of us are talking about like, yeah, I'm doing stuff, Yeah I did this. Yeah, I think this is an issue that I'm I'm keeping tabs and I think it's pretty interesting. If enough of us do that, the people that wouldn't normally get involved in these things will probably take notice, and all of a sudden, when it becomes the quote unquote like thing to do. Uh, then you're then you're talking about some real cool stuff happening. Um. Yeah, well it's the tipping point, right. It's just like it's it's like the video of that one weird dude dancing at the concert and if you haven't seen it, just go YouTube. You know, weird dude dancing at a concert. But like you know, it starts out with just one person at the in the video, there's one person that's dancing just crazy, and then you have one other guy that decides to go like I'm just gonna go, you know, get wild too, and just dance and like then all of a sudden you have a few more adopters and a few more adopters and the next thing, you know, there's hundreds of people that are just going nuts uh uh and and joining in all this stuff. So it takes a little while, but like if you, like you said, if you can get enough people talking about it, you can get enough people thinking it's trendy to be a conservationist and and preach about conservation and really you know, be passionate about it. Yeah, there's no there's no end to what we can do as a community in that space. Yeah. And social media definitely, for all of its downfalls, one thing that it has done that is pretty darn cool is it has made that kind of like community building or sharing just so much easier. Um, I mean, you could you can mobilize a group of like people, like minded people in a in a crazy way compared to what it would have taken twenty years ago. So you know, if there was one, I mean, we've seen it a handful of times with big issues or big bills, Like when there is a concerted thing that we're all going to double down on and you can get the word out there enough people start doing it, that snowball effect is can be assive. Um. And we've we've got that power at our fingertips now, So that's that's pretty cool. So if, yeah, I love it. If ever one of us started doing that, that absolutely makes a big difference. Yeah. Um yeah, I'm wondering here, what do I have? All Right, here's one, Um, this is gonna be another on the ground thing. Um. My challenge for folks listening within the deer hunting community is to take action on one non dear focused habitat project this year. Um. We talked a lot about this two episodes ago with Adam Keith and Matt die um. So there was tons of ideas mentioned in that one. My my challenge, my my hope is that every one of us that has a piece of ground that either released or we own it, um, and then we can do some kind of stuff. Let's all try to do one thing that's not solely dear focused. Um. It's it's obviously that we always want to do those projects that are gonna make the deer hunting better. For those of us that are nuts about white tails, it's I mean, I'm guilty of it a ton Like if I'm gonna do something, if I'm gonna put money and time and energy into it. Of course, I wanted to lead to you know, an awesome encounter with a great, big giant buck on November one. Um, I've got that beautiful green clover plot for that, right. But but you know, we have these places, we have these landscapes that we have the privilege to either own at least or to use, and uh, you know, there's there's a lot of power that we have on those places to to do good stuff for other critters out there. And unfortunately, there's a lot of stuff out there that is struggling compared to dear deer doing pretty darn great across the landscape. We've done an awesome job as deer hunters and managers of of managing them and providing you know, landscapes that they benefit from. But you know, talked about this throughout the whole Back forty project. Things like butterflies and bees are seriously struggling. Songbirds are declining rapidly across a lot of different places. Um, you know, rough grouse are in a bad, bad place across a lot of their landscape. There's all sorts of these other animals out there that could use, uh some help, that could use more wildlife habitat that you know. Shoot, pheasants across a lot of the Midwest now are declining because of more and more fence, and I was getting tore out more and more grasslands and CRP stuff being put into crops. I mean, there's so many examples of this kind of stuff. I know. I'm sure you've seen a sam um. So you know, if you can find one thing, it could be small, it could be just a test, it could be man you know, maybe this year, instead of planting five food plots, I'm gonna do four food plots, and one of those spots, that one acre that usually goes into straight clover, Maybe now let's try to manage that as an old field and promote native plants and weeds and different things like that that be great for pollinators and butterflies and bees and rabbits and all that stuff. Maybe, you know, instead of I don't know, maybe instead of investing a thousand bucks or five bucks in the new box blind, maybe you take five bucks and get a cheap chainsaw and some safety gear and do some kind of timber management. Cut a little d I Y project on a half acre that brings some sunlight to the ground. Um, look at those ideas. There's tons of stuff out there. Try something. My idea is one non deer project. See what it does on the landscape. It's it's probably gonna end up helping your deer hunting too. But if we can do this and and give some love to these other animals, these other landscapes, I think, I think everything that's connected benefits and um, I think that'd be a great place for us to spend a little time as as deer hunters and managers. So that's that's my next one. Yeah, no, that's that's perfect. I like that a lot. And like you said, uh, you might be focusing on something that is quote unquote not deer related, but it's almost guaranteed that it's going to help your your deer herd as well. So yeah, um, let's see here, I've got a little list. Now. This one is going to take a little bit more uh more people educating themselves on it. But this one is just vote for conservation. Um. You know, so much of what happens, you know, you kind of touched on stuff like the Farm Bill and CRP and and these major government programs. Um, a lot of that happens in Washington. The decisions that you know affect your local herd or your local flock or your local you know, like habitat improvement stuff is it comes from Washington, and it comes from you know, being educated about who's running for what seats and then you know, like kind of looking back on their track record or at least looking back at like what they have where they have positioned themselves, you know, on conservation issues. And so it's it's just you know, whether it be researching the voting records or you know, asking those questions, two different organizations that are keeping an eye on anybody that's you know, running for certain positions or whatever within the government. Educate yourselves on you know, who's going to be pro habitat conservation public lands uh, you know, or conservation easements or private land improvement. Uh. And and know who you should vote for in the election because that makes a huge difference. Um. Yeah, but that you know, it takes time. That one takes a lot of there's a lot there's not one great, you know, central location for all of that information, and unfortunately a lot of the organizations can't really like you know, tell you you know, um, right, or wrong, like who has voted for what because you know, because they have a nonprofit um status and so they're not able to really you know, you can't have a political view because they're they're supposed to be unbiased and objective about everything. So it's uh, yeah, that when you've got to take on for yourself and learn about who you're voting for and and and where they stand on all those issues. So it takes a little time, but believe me, it's it's worth it once you once you start to learn all that stuff. Yeah, Now here's the rub though, Sam, how do you personally go about like figuring out the balance? Because you know, I think something that plagues a lot of our plagues our political situation a lot of these times that it's hard to find candidates that are good on habitat and conservation and also good on hunting rights or firearm rights things like that that are important to what we do. Um. I mean, this is the thing that I'm constantly wrestling with, like how do I how do I do this right? How do I get the best of both worlds. It's like every year I'm constantly trying to figure this out and trying to read up on who's best on these different things and all that. I mean, how do you how do you manage that? How do you think about that? Oh? It's not easy. I think for me, what it boils down to is I have a list of priorities, you know, for whether it be for my my personal views and then like the much grander view when it comes to all things conservation related. And I think it's just trying to pick and choose what's going to fit that bill as best as I can. I'm never going to get right of the time, but I do know that, um, you know, for our country to continue to progress and do the right things, we need a balance of both sides of the aisle and people that are you know, maybe maybe the best thing is trying to find people who are willing to work with each other, uh and get them in office. And so you know, it's not also one sided one way or another, because I think, you know, as a as a country as a whole, we have, um, you know, people that lean really far one way and really far the other way, and there's a lot of us that are kind of in that more central, essentially minded common sense stuff. So I think it's just picking and choosing um as best you can on how all that fits into you know, both your personal and worldviews. Yeah, yeah, I'm right there with you on that one, and that's so so true. I wish we could get more of that middle ground represented um and get some working together happening. UM. You know, I would add on that, which is like vote, vote for conservation, vote for these things you care about. But then I would say my, my, my, yes, but or yes, and would be yes, do that and after the elections, regardless of who won, then pressure the hell out of whoever did win. Two represent the thing that still matters to you. So you know, if if the person who's good on I mean again, this isn't always the case. Sometimes there's people that are good on all things that we care about. But let's just say, hypothetically, like the person who's good on the environment but not good on guns or good on hunting rights, say that person wins in that case, they said, all right, let's get ahold that person and say yes please on that environment stuff, and yes please on that conservation public land stuff and say a great job at a boy, at a girl whatever, But then really raise a ruckus about like K but we we still need this and this, and we have these really important hunting rates. You gotta support that. You gotta support that. You can't be good on conservation but bad on this, so we gotta like the onus is on us to keep making a racket on that thing. Or on the flip side, if the person that's great on our firearm rights are great on hunting. If they win, but then they want to start doing some wonky stuff with our public lands, or they start promoting some bad stuff for wildlife, then same thing, like, hey, buddy, I voted for you, but you cannot wreck it by doing this bad stuff for the other things. Um. That pressure that those emails and those calls, even after the election, I think that can still make a difference too. So be the squeaky wheel vote and then be the squeaky wheel. Yeah. I like that a lot. Just hold all of those people accountable, um, and you know, potentially even sway their mind to you know, go down the path that we wanted to go down, because they are after all, elected officials elected by the people. Yeah. Yeah, it's uh, it's it's possible. I mean we've seen examples over the last five years of how we've been able to do it right. Shot. That's example A. So, um, there's definitely that that power we have, UM that takes us to number ten, And I'm gonna say my number ten is going to be this one. This is gonna be way different than most everything else we've said. I'm going to say that. And I've talked about this in the past before. But if we're looking for something, if you haven't done this yet, you gotta pick it up. You gotta read a Sand County Almanac. That's gonna be my last suggestion. I just think it's one of those it's short, it's an easy read, and it's one of those just foundational sets of ideas about conservation and protecting and conserving these places and animals. Uh, there's so much in there that Aldo Leopold talks about that resonates true still today. If you read that whole book through and don't feel inspired to take action on items one through nine, I don't know what will um so read that one. The first half of the book is kind of like little anecdotes and stories, and he might be like, oh, this is interesting stuff, but I don't get how it ties directly to conservation and the land ethic of stuff. But read that because the second half of the book gets into the real meat and potatoes of these ideas, and you're not close the book on that last page and be like wow, yeah, alright, we've got work to do. So that's that's my last one. Sam. Have you have you read a Sam kind of Almanac? I have not, Sam. No, just listen, wait wait, it is ordered perfect Okay, I literally just ordered it on Amazon. So good, good, good, you're gonna you're gonna you're gonna thank me for that one. You're gonna like that. I'll probably have it read by the time this podcast goes live. So yes, I've read it. Okay. Yeah, we'll edit this out and just say yeah, I've read it. Yeah, I have read it. Oh man, I think and it's it's a it's an easy quick read, but it's um man, it's just full of the good stuff. So I don't know, Sam, I know we each we each had more ideas, but I figure if we if we overload people, it's probably more than anything than anyone could handle. Um But I think there's some good stuff here we've got. I'll recap the list and my my idea here is like, obviously none of us can do all this stuff, but if but if each one of us maybe could do a couple of these things. We figure out what's the right fit for us, and what do we have the time for the or the money or the what's the right situation, whatever it is that works for you. If each one of us could tackle a couple of things, um, that's that's a really good step in the right direction for this this these places, these animals that we that we care about so much, that make you know, all the rest of the podcast topics. We've had all these conversations about how to hunt Donald buck on foot, or how to plant food plots that will lead to better our tree kills in November, or you know whatever it is that stuff that we love that gets us pumped up to be out there in the tree all day in November. Um, it's these little projects, these little emails and phone calls, reading these books, getting this information, all this stuff is what makes that possible. So a recap of our ten ideas. Our number one, join a conservation group or a bunch definitely check out the conservation crossing shirt and initiative number two, try to do your first volunteer project for a conservation group. Go out there and do a little something. Number three. Get a duck stamp. Buy some duck stamps. It's an easy way to send money directly to habitat work. Number four. If you own land, learn a little bit about conservation easements and see if that might be a good fit for your special place. Number five go shopping for hunting and firearms and Ammo and all that good stuff and feel good about it and tell your significant other that you're making a positive difference and not just spending your family's money. UH Number six, learn a little bit more about this thirty by thirty initiative. Go to hunt fish thirty thirty dot com to learn about that. UH Number seven. Talk more about this stuff on social media. Yeah, post your big buck pictures. Yeah, post your big fish pictures, but tossing a couple where you talk about the habit at work you did, or that volunteer project or some important issue that you care about. Number eight is if you own at least land and you can manage and do habit at work, let's try one non dear project this year. Consider that as an idea to add to your list. Number nine was vote for conservation, take the time to learn about these people and what they support, and and pay you attention to that in the ballot box, and then also be the squeaky wheel afterwards. And then the last number ten read a Sand County Almanac and get inspired by the wisdom of Eldo Leopold. Uh, that's what we got, Sam. What do you think, I'd say that's a pretty good list. Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm happy with it. I feel I feel like there's a good number of these things I can do myself right now. So I'm excited about that. Yeah, me too. And there's definitely some things in there that you know, I'm gonna try to you know, do and and use going forward. Man, this is uh, this is a good stuff. I'm glad. I'm glad that we could just get to talk about this stuff and uh and think about these things. And it's it's just, you know, it's sometimes easy to look at the news or see some documentary or whatever. And I mentioned earlier like feel overwhelmed. That's another thing. But it's also easy to see this barrage of bad news related to this animal going extinct or this amount of the landscape is gone, or this place is in danger, or this place got burned to the ground, or this lake has polluted. I mean, it could get depressing. It can get depressing. Um. And so I always go back to what Avan Shinnard often says, which is the best cure for depression is action. So whenever I start seeing that stuff and I'm like, damn, like, what are my kids going to be left with? That feeling always leads me to think, next, Okay, what can I do right now? Is there some little bit of action I can take? And that's I think that's the most important thing I can I can add to this conversation. I guess today is just the best cure for depressions. Action. So if you start bumming out about something you're seeing out there, um, do something. And Sam, you're a great example of someone doing that. Well thank you. But yeah, like you said, then you know, just take action. Pick one of those things on this list and just get after it. So if people, if people want to follow what you're doing, if they want to stay in touching up to date on your projects, those that are going right now or those in the future, where where should they go? Where can they tap into that? So, yeah, personal page mostly post Instagram is just at Sam Soholt, and then public land Tease pages are public land Tease dot com and the Instagram page is at public land Tease. And then we have, you know, starting to grow the content on the sohol Brothers YouTube channel. So, um yeah, that's pretty much where you can find everything that we're up to. We well, yeah, is there anything importantly we left off? Is there anything that you were dying to talk about that I've horribly mismanaged this conversation and missed him? No, man, I think uh, I think we covered it. I just really appreciate you letting me hop on and talk about everything that we're up to, all the initiatives and kind of the the journey that led to that point. And um yeah, I mean the goal is just to continue to figure out ways to do more of that. Yeah, well, I love it. I appreciate making the time to do this. And and also, like I mentioned a second ago, you are you are the example that people can look to of what can happen when folks make conservation cool and make it trendy and make it out there. Right, You've you've used your platform to share these initiatives, these stories, these experiences, these learnings you've had, and it's gotten a lot of people interested in it. So I mean, keep fighting the good fight, man, and uh, you know, I'm gonna gonna keep looking to you and being inspired and trying to do a few things myself. So thank you, Sam Well. I appreciate the kind words, but you know, a long way to go. But yeah, again, thank you, and that i'd say is a rap. All right, that's gonna do it. Appreciate you guys listening. Thank you for following along for this whole series. I hope you've learned a few things. I hope you've come away with some new ideas of of what you could do yourself when it comes to keeping these wild places and wild animals around so we can have a whole lot of great times in the future, good hunts, good memories, things that take our kids out there to enjoy, opportunities, to fill our freezer, all that good stuff. I want to make sure it's around for a long long time. So I'm excited that many of you are going to be doing the good work to help make that happen. And I'm gonna do my best to be right there alongside you. So thanks again and until next time, stay wired to Hunt.