00:00:00 Speaker 1: Oh hey there everybody, episode ninety nine and hunt in Collectives coming right at you. Here from Boza, Montana. We got a pretty interesting one to day. We were joined by a bunch of meat eaters, Steven ron Ella, uh, Kylie Archer. Who else Phil did we have in the room? Karine Schneider, Schneider Crann, Handy Racer. We finally confronted Steve about the feud. He apparently was unaware of the feud. Uh. We're both very possessive of Phil and we're trying to figure out who ultimately he is. Um. Yeah, can I just say that that was a dehumanizing conversation. Boy, it was rough. I didn't Steve took it, took it to a new level. Yeah. I was expecting some some backup, like maybe he would have brought me into his arms, and no, no, he he made He really dehumanized you in the in the shocking. You know, when parents get divorced and sometimes they have to get a court and fight over custody for their child. It was the opposite. Yeah. They were like they were like, neither of us, like one of you has to take him, and so I think I get you, Uh, but you'll you're gonna do that. We also we did a thing. You know, you have ideas sometimes and then they come to fruition and you're like it was a good or not, You don't really know. This is one of those times. We had all our metaors in here because we were gonna do a little blind taste test, a little pepsi challenge on UH plant based meat and wild game meets see if we could trick anybody. We had wild Game Cook extraordinary Rick Matteney put up a couple of brots of different kinds and a couple of burgers of different kinds. We blindfolded, at least Steve was blindfolded to see if they could taste the difference. So you'll will keep you in suspense, but the answer was pretty clear on this one. So it's a fun time with our crew. And then we had Rachel carry On Rich carries an author have the United Kingdom. She is you know, directly embroiled in the whole anti hunting, anti trophy hunting situation in the UK. For all UK listeners were finally getting to this. All three of you have been asking about it incessantly, So now tell your friends about the podcast. Tell your friends grow the podcast. I know. I looked, actually looked not to put bring too many numbers into I looked, how many people four thousand people in the UK listening to this podcast? Four thousand and three d yep, wow, that's third only to Canada the United States. That's crazy. So thanks, I'm impressed. Thanks over there, So all four thousand of you are gonna listen to this one and enjoy it. But it's it's in all seriousness. It's a it's a conversation that we want to have about what's going on over there because a lot of ways mirrors what might happen here eventually. So enjoy Rachel Carey coming up. But before we get all that, I'm gonna keep telling you about this New Zealand hunt because you know, why not? Why wouldn't you enter? It's kind of a big deal. Yeah, it's a huge deal for me. Uh Phil, as you think of any reasons you wouldn't enter this contest? Um, I do you get penalized for entering the count? Know? You just give up your email. It's worth, it's worth still worth, it's worth go to first like dot com. Scroll down, you're gonna see when a tar Hunt with Ben or Bran from the Hunting Collective. There you click on that, follow the prompts and you might just win a tar hunt New Zealm with me and you win a weather be rifle you went to bench, main knife, a full kid from first Light, all those things in this awesome giveaway. And as as Phil correctly stated, it's a huge deal. So go there check it out. I'm gonna keep telling you about it until all of you have done it because I want you to have a chance to win. I care about you, all right, only episode don't laugh and I said I care about you. Feel laugh. I do care about you, all right and joy episode Hey, everybody welcome episode number and the Hunting Collective. I've been and Brian feels over there, Phil, it's time we had to come to uh jeseus set to do this. Quiet over there, Phil, we just Steve. There's been a monthly, two months long feud between Steve show my show about Phil, Steve's now was not aware of the feud until just now. Well, I mean, I know that there's a lot of people that want Phil. Yeah, he's a he's a commodity, but I also know that he's just down there welled down there, feeling he used to hide behind that curtain and I and he was dead to me. I didn't give a I don't care. Why would you, right? Did you care? Back? Then let me ask you back to see how he was doing. I did care, but I didn't repeal the curtain back. But tell me more about the feud. I mean, I don't want to see what grotesque man was behind there. It was like he's back there, so I don't even want to know what he's doing. When people go into a little space and draw a curtain clothes, I don't want. I don't look, ye, I don't want to look. Now we're on the same page there, No, But you know, Phil has become a big part of this show, and then and then, uh, the listeners have become kind of protected of I mean, like a baby bird, like they don't want him to get out of the nest because you feel like you might get hurt. And and like a baby bird, you shoot up all of my food. And very similar to that here on the show, I treat you with great respect and reverence. We brought you out from the curtain into the light. Um. But a lot of people wrote in when he did this mini green and it was the first time people noticed that he wasn't doing an ad. He was being interviewed. He's being interviewed. He's being interviewed because he's sitting there and the third party. It's awkward for me to act like he's not there. That's right, that's right. So I'm more of a burden than anything. You have to feel like you have to include me. Yeah, Like, if you're driving down the road, let me to say, it's like the proximity is similar, almost like that you're driving down the road with someone in your car. It's true, but then not acknowledging that he's in your car. I do that often my wife friends. So I asked Phil a couple of questions about a product. Um, I'm not trying to like if you if you listen, all you gotta do is say to me, like, never talk to Phil again, and I'll go I'll make him go back behind the curtain. When all right. That's a lot of power that I have now. A lot of Phil's time, I treat him like we love we love Philip. He's a great part of the pocket. But there is there was a lot of We had a lot of emails from people, one that called him a trader because he wanted It started when he shaved his mustache off. That was a big issue, and then when he started to become a regular voice on other shows. Do you I kind of like, uh, box him up a little bit by calling him fill the engineer? Like I try to like keep him like a little bit less than a human. You like to try to really like sort of like you know, put a like to put like a cage around him. Yes, um, yep? Do you what do you call him? Philly engineer? Okay, there's a lot coming out around the tab. It was like that you were just calling him Phil like I'm not, I'm not like come on now, no, And we've we'll be like you know my mechanic right yeah, I don't. Yeah, we've we've dug into his life a little bit like the long guy. Yeah he's got did you know he has Steve Jors have a dog. Why would I care about that? Yeah, he's a dog and cat. His dog's name is Mango. It's just it's not interesting, not interesting next year? I mean, I don't what about the cat? I like, just so Phil realizes, uh, just so he's clear about a relationship. Please. I like to every time he mentions his children, I like to act surprise that he has them, oh, as a way of as a way of for him to to feel that there isn't a way for him to feel just lest he become familiar. Yes, you're not. Acknowledge is progeny to push him away. And I'm like, oh, Phil, I don't know you're married and head children every week? I do that. I thought you stayed in this room seven and never left, the son of a bitch. Well, Philly, what do you got to say? We'll give you the floor here to kind of just let it rip, buddy, I'm just happy to be here. Who who brought you some presents? A Phil? Oh? You did see anybody else bring your presents? Stay? Phil? You know I can't think of anyone in particular. You got some cheesecake via my birthday? Yeah, that was Kylie. She even sliced it for me. The desperate grasp on. Alright, well I'll bring you. I'm gonna shower you with gifts. Phil. You're married, Phil, can't wait? Three kids? All right? Well we're joined by Kylie Archer lay Hi Hi, uh Annie Racer. He and Karin the producer and Steven Ronelle. Of course we're here to do something we're waiting on where we're waiting in the wings for. We're calling it the Pepsi Challenge. But I feel like that might be trademarked, um, so I have to think of it that I might be taking a chance blinds A blind tastes you know, A double blind taste test is where you can't where your taste buzzes don't work. Know. It's where the where the administrator of the test doesn't even know it doesn't even know. We are we are, we are sing Our administrator is Rick Mattney, the Great cook while a game cooker. Rick Matty's out there right now trigger in um some fake, weird smelling, catfool looking substance and also wild game meat. So what he's gonna do. He's gonna bring in half a half of hamburger cheeseburger. Everybody here is good with cheese. I gotta check these days. And then the other half is gonna be plant based, lab lab grown or plant based plant based. He thought it was. I wish it was lab. I didn't, you know, for no reason, I didn't think about it hard enough. I wish it was a lab grown I'm interested in the eating of the labyrior meats. Would you do it? Oh? I never have, but I would love to have some. So let's let's quickly before. Okay, you know what I'm guilty of when I saw that, Uh, I guess I had lumped it out. Okay, go on, it doesn't matter what I thought. Yes it does. Yes, I thought you meant that it was like the lab meat. No, No, it's plant. It smells, it looks like it might have been made in the lab. But it's it's called beyond meat. And I lied to you also by telling you that I had lab meat, so you like, so you lied about lab meat thinking, Okay, I'm on board. Let's start over. I'm off to speed and the start. None of this matters to anybody but me. That's fine. Here it comes here, he comes, here, he comes Rick, Matt, He's it's called beyond meat to plant based burger grabbing mic real quick, Rick, and just describe the dish you have here we go. Yeah. Basically, what we have here is we have one of the Beyond Burger's sample set and then one with venison. Burger can't I can't tell looking at him. Yeah, we don't even need the sky and it looks really good. So you triggered these up. Yeah, so we smoked them in the pellet grill um and yeah we should have. They they're on for the same amount of time and we had the same amount of seasoning on both of them, so it should be a pretty even comparison. And we're in pretty much everybody that I've run this this idea by says, there's no way that we will confuse the two. There's no way that we would think that the plant based is actually wild game and vice versa. I don't want to lead the audience. I do. I ate one once, and what do you think? Was very surprised? Who else here? Who else here? I'm raising my hand and you can't see that. But yeah, I ate it unknowingly and did not know. I knew something wasn't quite right, but I was unaware that it wasn't me. I just thought it was a cook the ship, shitty burger. I thought it was like everybody said, like, I thought I was eating like just like cafeteria like burger. Yeah, that's why I thought it was. It reminded me of like when you were in a little kid and I'm gonna give you a hot lunch money and beg a burger. That's what I thought it was. It stays in that little metal pan with the water, and it's just it's like it's just like I don't mind, but I don't mind those burgers, oh lunch lunch school school lunch burgers. I thought I was eating like a meat loaf, like a chunk of meat. There was like other things in there, and I was like, what is it? And nobody in here is is against the plant based burger right to be against That's what I'm saying. Like you think that should it should be bad to shape things into at a burger a circle? And no, I think maybe as possible people might think they call it meat is an issue. Yeah, I'm joking, because it does. These get people riled up. They do. They get people riled up, and it makes like people who are like real proud of eating burgers and whatnot, they get upset about it. Yeah, but I don't get getting upset about it, like eat what you want. People are concerned about your opinion because you created a show called meat Eater. But listen, if let's say you cooked up a human baby, okay, and already you cook a human baby and you serve it to me the blind taste test, and I'm like, oh, that's good. I like that, and you're like, wa ha ha ha, it's a human baby. I would say, like, I'm not going to continue eating it, um, but it just doesn't appeal to me, right, But I can't help the fact that it tasted okay, And when I ate the thing, it just tasted like a food item to me. Okay, I didn't have like what about when you ate the baby? Did you know? That's I'm known from my bad analogies as a new father. We're gonna we're gonna move on. You're not invited to the christening or whatever we do we're doing. My analogy doesn't even make any sense. I'm trying to think. What I'm trying to say. I like, we got him, we got him fresh in the habitat. I'm trying to say this real quick, not dow. I'm done talking. I'm trying to say this. I'm trying to say, trying to say that there is Here's what I'm trying to say. There's an emotional side to eating, and there's like a purely physical side to eating um. Emotionally, I love like, I feel really good emotionally eating a deer burger that um that my friends got or I got, And it's kind of like in our circle and we all, you know, get stuff and grind it up and share stuff, and it's just like I feel very connected and alive and social, and there's like a pride um. And even if you gave me a burger made out of something else, moon dust, and it tasted ten times better, I wouldn't be like, well, I'm switching to moon dust burgers because I don't. It's not an interesting story to me, like deer burgers are. That's all I think any more to say, give me the damn burger. We're gonna blind Do we need a blindfold? Sense? I can't out he cooked him? Like well, I think if you pull out one of those quarters or halves and you look at I think you're gonna be Are the halves mismatched? Their mismatched halves? Can you tell? Rick? Do you think? I don't think so? Okay, I'm gonna look turn it, turn it away it turned. Don't don't turn the cup people without letting them see the we're gonna go. We're gonna go one at a time, and then we're gonna What I'd like you to do is take a few bites. Take a few test bites. Crin, you can go first, take a few test bites to that side. Think about it. Described the flavor and taste as you're eating. Now, she's eating it, paper towels. Phil Is phil is very concerned about greasiness on the mic. I'm just looking out for number one face full stage energies right now. Eat the second half of the burger you took. They gotta be paired up. She's doing it right. Okay, so she's still doing it. I'm not doing it right now. You can have that half and they're gonna give you another half. But I thought we were doing it one time. Yeah, we're doing it one at a time. I got you. Why don't want to look at him? I'm looking at him too, Colsely, not Karen. It's not your vault. You ate the first took two bites of the first burger. Why do you think you know? It doesn't taste like meat. Okay, that's it looks like meat. It looks good. The second burger, that's a juicy burger that you just took a bite of juice. Phil Phill the engineer, just try to do something super human like he like when got like napkins, just because it's such a human touch. It feels like I'll not be ignored. How many kids you have? Okay, I'd like to I'd like to hear your thoughts. You feel like the first burger you had? Okay, I try not to look um, but I want to know. I like, yeah, I glance like burger that I could not like my I just took. Just speaking, Steven Roll is taking his hood of his sweater. There's a lot of looking going on. He's taking it. He's taking his hoodie. Somebody filing right now. He's gone emo, he's taking the hoodie. If you film that for me, Kylie. He's taking the hoodie from his Meat Eater hoodie available at the meat eater dot com. And uh covered his eyes because he's taking this serious now. Karen believes she knows. So we're gonna we're gonna move to Steve now and have him do some tasting. So we're eating them in the same order. Yes, Okay, there, that's it. That's it. Yeah, what what is it. He's got it. I'm trying to trick. I'm seeing how good yard, I'm seeing how good yard giving he's going to. He's taking a bite. It's dripping all over his fast. But he doesn't know that because he can't see. He's gonna have to do It's a deer burger. He's gonna he's gonna have to uh get some stain remover later. That greece up. It's hard to come out. So so that's burger A remember that burger. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know. Let me see that one burger. Put that down on that paper towel, Stephen Burger. Now, Burger Bee's coming. Burger Bee's coming. Ye feel it, he's he's feeling it and Peal painting it, has pial painting it gingerly with his his hands. The Ronella's have giant, giant hands. He's eating it. Took a first fight. I mean, it's just not a fucking burger. I mean it's just not a burger. That's not even close. Yea, what is it though? It's like there's food filling you know what? Then put a blindfold on. I have one right here. I don't know what the hell it is. It's like it tastes like uh uh, I don't know, like it's got some kind of like synthetic binder holding some stuff together. Yeah, that sounds about right. What were re reading, Rick, the the ingredients in there was. I'm not saying you're right though. That's the famous what's it called, that's the famous beyond burg beyond burger. Well, I don't know if that is not. How about shy of all right, you're you're out, you're out. Don't look at the burgers yet you still have to well you already know, you already know your answer. I don't need to listen. I'm not toying around here. I was blind, alright, Kylie, go for it doesn't matter which one. Go ahead and get years too. And because I feel like this is a going the way we thought it would go. That's a beyond burger, that's what we personally. God bless him. I hope they have a wonderful everything. But come on, come on, I feel like I'm looking at it now and I can tell right away, even the even the ingredients like slip off the burger in a way that it's like a hockey puck. Mind. I thought I was nervous that I wouldn't be able to get it right. Yeah, no, immediately immediately, you can tell. But I was so nervous about that I wouldn't be able to get it right. That was having like existential crises heading into this. I was worried about our company because I'd be like, I'd be like, holy ship, oh that was a good burger, and I was like peop would be like like, ha be having a crisis. The midlife crisis reminds me of the time my old pathy cook me in nineties and ninety six. What you didn't know this was what you were doing. Would you still know? Like, maybe what we should do next time is we have a barbecue at work and we give there is no Yeah, if I was, we could check some people for sure. Let's say I was wasted. Okay, It's three in the morning and I'm pulling into a drive through and I'm like talking to someone an eating a burger on the way home, not driving they're driving there, so uh and and and maybe I would eat it without thinking about it too much. All right, Well, well I might be wrong, but it's the it's the impossible burgers that that's the one that tries to not only mimic the taste but also like texture and a burgers. I look watched this room and watched everyone drip grease all over their laps, and I kind of just wanted, it's fine to keep the mixing boards safe. I'll try one of out out there after the podcast. I didn't grease. I actually just got mayonnaise and mustard all over the microphone. That's what Phil was so worried about prior to this recording. He is so stressed that this. He's angry man. You thought it was going to rooting for it, wanted I'm just a little compute. Like once we started look and we were talking about this before, you're like everybody was certain that it wouldn't even be close. I thought it would be way closer. I was looking at it makes it is visceral. Let's put it. Let me put it in a plug for these guys though. Okay, Okay, I like it. Uh it's a balanced show. Yeah. If let's say let's say that, uh, um, let's say that my physician were to say to me, if you eat another meat burger, die you got alpha guer syndrome. Or someone said to me, um, or I was whatever. I had arrived at some conclusion that eating farm farm meat, commercially produced meat was horrible and like irresponsible, and I said to myself, Okay, I'm only gonna need a plant based diet. Um. I would absolutely throw this into the mix because it at least triggers the psychological feeling of having like a burger. It's it's closer to a burger than no burger. Well you're burgers, You're burger than like a veggie burger. But it is a veggie burger brand. No, I mean like something that's marketed as like a vel. This is beyond this is beyond meat. So it's it's market as a plant trying to close plant. It's more right, So listen, it's I like the honest reasoning I say. I was like, say, these companies are ideological and more than they are nutritional, like they're they're saying. So they are saying that you look how close. So the question, I guess, Steve and for everybody here is is it close enough? If they were to say you could save the world. This is what they pause it. This is what they're saying, you can possibly end animal agriculture. Do less have less impact on our world by eating this fac similar plant based thing. I'm not I don't buy into that, but I'm saying that's what they're saying, and that's the argument they're trying. I think what they're trying to do is inch close enough to the experience that they can then make the argument, well, it's close enough that if you can save the world, you'll still be happy. And that's what you gotta that's what you have to answer. And that's why I wanted to do with taste test because it's it's it's like, is it close enough for you to make that choice? And that's what they're asking of people. I think, well, I think the question you're really asking is if we chose to only eat this burger, we would save the world. I want to do a role play Annie, you be I'll be hyperbolic, but I'm me, and you're a person that says to me, I'm me, and you're a person that says to me, um, I loathe me as not the flavor, by loathe the idea of eating another creature. But man, do I miss having a good hamburger? Okay, what do you suggest? Say that? To me? Oh? Man? I loathe the idea of eating another creature, but man, I miss burger's interesting? What would you suggest I do? I'd say, you know, uh no, I'm role playing, so I don't need to say I'd say, uh, you know. At one time I was on Ben O'Brien's podcast and he served me a beyond burger. I would highly recommend you try one. If you miss that burger feeling, thank you perfectly, I'll try it. Subscribe. Well, would be interesting is we've all eaten meat. So if you take someone who's never eaten meat period, I don't think that they wouldn't have any idea. I think this sert like it's strangely, it's annoying to me that it serves a purpose. But it serves a purpose, you know. Let me put it this way. So a hell of a lot better than a portobello burger. Yeah, yeah, it is. That's a good ring did a good job well. I think he used mastered on seasoning. So I mean, like the flavor is not the issue I eat. I think, I mean sure to chew right into the real this compelling. It's it's really like an audio escape. This is yeah, this is really like this is an audio experience, not a podcast, you can really tell that we're having a delicious But I think I just think it's the consistency. And when I started watching videos these people eating lab based meat, it's the same thing that like, it's not the flavor is so much different. It's the feeling, the consistency, the grain of it, the lack of fat, a lot of different things like that. So like it's clear that these people are inching closer to something that, uh it's not the right word. Isn't the threat, but it certainly can be a replacement to eating a burger. I mean, that's simple. I think if you say, like you could eat this and save the world, I mean I feel like the messaging is probably a little bit more or nuance than that. I mean, I think that these companies are looking at the commercial meat industry and trying to find alternatives that I don't know, I guess there are some companies that are really trying to approach meat but like to come up with some kind of like so similarly of biting into a burger, while also kind of considering the impact that that large scale commercial Uh so, listen, this is what has this is what they say on their website, he's coming back. There's a man coming in with sausages. Wow, I forgot about aren't as tricky because they got the coding. It's true, I haven't yet are they visually confusing? But you know, I still can't tell on the burn now that I'm looking at the Burnell, it's the same situation. It's a similar situation. Yeah, the burgers looking awful, lot of like the massages. Don't look at him. You can tell. Well, Steve prepares to go back in uh Beyond Meat says, we believe there's a better way to feed the planet. Our mission should create the future of protein, delicious plant based burgers, beef sausage crumbles, and more. By shifting from animal to plant based meat, we can address global issues human health, climate change, constraints on natural resources, and animal welfare. They can't never get away from the animal welfare part of this ship. But um, that's their play. So that's that's a grandiose statement. That's not we'll give it a shot. That's a hey, we're gonna fix all your woes with this. And so that's why always say this is an ideology, not really just like a thing to eat. So Stephen. You see if we can trick you on number two, this might be worse than the first one. Sassages rats. He's reaching, reaching into the void. It's very similar, symbolic, very symbolic. He's about Patty. It's gonna be hard. I'm gonna kind of half look, half look, but not really. How is it prepared? Rick? While he's a munched down there? You could use that Mike care. Yeah, we kept to these pretty simple. It's just an artisan bun with some mustard and a Brot Worst. Yes. By the way, While Steve is chewing into the microphone, Rick the Great Rick Mattnee's here. You go on the metaor dot com, there's a bunch of really cool recipes. Rick comes to the office every once in a while, and every time he comes, I'm very happy. I'm blown away by what he cooks. So dot com Rick Matney recipes. Now East, I'm confusing. What are we compared what what are we comparing it to? Because you say brots, you don't mean like classically flavored brot worst? This what was the on the package? We looked at it original brot? Right, original brot? Yeah, that's an original brod Oh Okay, so because you know a lot of people use Brott and sausage like interchangeable, and so all right, that's you've beating the first one. Now Rick is gonna give you the second one. Okay. There's so much going on with a sausage, the flavoring in different grinds, right that that's confusing to me. But I've only had half. Okay, here's the other. Here is a choice B sausage B. I'm looking at it. You can't see it. He's taking it out of the bun, going straight for for it now, chewing it into the home. Daddy's going home. I'm done. Did he get it right? Yeah, Daddy's feeling that, going right back home, settling in. Yeah. Man, I knew it wasn't gonna be hard once I started looking smelling it. Tell us, tell us, let me get cleaned up. Because he said there was a lot going on. Um, that's a closer call, is it? Because again with a sausage, especially when I know that we're gonna be probably having homemades. Go ahead, Kylie, I don't like there's so many different ways people grind it. Yeah, and season it right that that Um, I could uh be at some whatever like, you know, some thing for my kids school, and you know, and you're kind of there, you're at a park and someone's grilling and you're kind of half yelling at your kid and have trying to chit chat with some guys, and you I could see, like I could see getting through the whole damn thing and never being like, wait a minute, what he's like? People, what do you have? I don't know, some sausages here. Here's what struck me. Here's what strikes me about this. And one of the reason I want to do this is what struck me about when I was thinking of at first. We do that sometimes it's hunters to people. Don't win, you've done it? What taking somebody? Have you done it? Taking somebody in, have him, Hey, here have this burger and they say, oh, that's a great burger and you say, no, ship, that's a neo guy. Oh yeah all the time. Yeah, you do that all the time. So people, the the evil plant based community people, I could probably do that to us on this without a comparison, just be like here eat this, yeah, but then then but yeah, then the minute you're done, you throw the bunt at him. But then you snap into that you snap into that sausage. Sausage, thank you? Just even like, yeah, the casing. But you know again, man, I would have eating it at a thing. If you know, if I was at my buddies, I might be like, the hell is that? But like, are just eating it and just thought it was That's what I'm saying. Something you bought it a grocery store somewhere. I don't know. All right, Phil, we're gonna make you eat a sauce. Is this gonna break your little board or you know? That's fine? God? That looks like a dog turn? What about? So I'm looking at it? Have some film? What are they casing these in? I have no idea. Let's look. Uh, let's look what they do? Yeah, not hog middle really even the casing, it doesn't look like you know what I do. If I was these guys a case in the ship they used to wrap you know, seaweed. So this is the broad They have a hot Italian that we didn't get. It's kosher, so that's good. Uh. Once you're looking at and eating it, then it's a whole different thing man, which in general most people do like color wise, how would you describe that? It's like yellowish looking like pale. Yeah again, God bless them rather, you know, they said that our belief is that the best way to get people to eat less meat is by giving them what they love, in this case, a juicy, delicious sausage without so many of the health, sustainability, and animal alfair downsides to a traditional animal base sausage. So this is a guilt free sausage made from products that cultivate the earth and screw up the soil. I want people know that I've I removed it from its stripped it from its context. I took it out of the bond. Yeah, you know, and just like I'm eating it now, h I take it back. I'd rather have their burger. Yeah, it's just a visual. The visual of the burger is not nearly as bad as the visualist sausage. Uh, it's bad. It looks it looks bad. I mean, I wonder if part of the problem is like a thing imitating something totally different, like you, I don't. I don't really think you can fool anyone. If it is an alternate product with an intention to try to accomplish X, Y and z UM, then that makes sense to me. But I think, yeah, I mean offering it as an alternate, as a as a separate thing, rather than in lieu of like they're trying triger difference. Who's that Columbani started doing the opposite where they're making uh, they're making vegetables out of meat. Were you talking about that earlier? Do They're like, they're like, you know, they could carrot meat. It's a guilt it's this carrot has a lot of guilt. It's not guilt free at all. It's a weird one. Man. I just think that I had never eat any of this stuff. Uh. I actually ate an impossible burger at Burger King one time, but I just felt like the original, like the actual Burger King whopper tastes like shit anyway. Like it's not quality meat anyway, it's not a comparison. And always found it strange that so now I think beyond meat is in dunkin Donuts. They were beyond meat sausage, sandwich and dunkin Donuts, And it always it seems ironic and a little bit funny to me that the first place they want to get into the market is fast food. But in their eyes, that's the best way to offset animal agriculture. By rushing these products, putting them in a saucer, sandwich and dunkin donuts where they sell five million of them a week or whatever. And it makes sense. But like on a nutritional taste flavor, in a situation like this, they're doing themselves no favors, Like there's just nothing that the com the comparison isn't really that. Yeah, it's like it's an idea that's in its infancy. But I mean in twenty years, man, in twenty years, it'll be it'll be like, uh well, probably much more close to being perfected. Um, you know, And I've I've often laughed and looked at like why is it that you Why do they want to make like a bake? And why do they want to make a hotdog? Why not just come up with new rather than trying to back things into things like why not be like what's the best thing that you can make with the stuff? Like we used to go to this vegan restaurant in Seattle, which I loved, and when you go in there, it wasn't that they were trying to make everything be like something else. It was just like really cool chefs, uh, really cool chefs that would make just things that were really good. Yeah, and the like what's the best thing to do with the produce that we have now? And they make things that were good and you eat it and you'd be totally satisfied, and it wasn't. They weren't like it's just like this and it's just like it's just like they're like, it's just really good, and I'm like, damn, that is good. I went like it started for me was I went to Berkeley with this animal rights activists, you know, as we tend to do here meat eater, and they acted like they were they're feeding me this like see see tastes good. Huh. I'm like, yeah, but why are you calling it this? Why can't you it's a steak and cheese sandwich. Why can't you say it's a jackfruit and cheese and be proud of that, like just label it what it is. And then they started to present this submersive argument like oh, hey, if if you're not really sure what meat is and what it isn't you'll accept different forms of it. I'm like, well, just as you said, just make a new thing just really good. Yeah, Like if you came up with a game, let's say you didn't like football because the violence, and you came up with a game where no one tackles anyone, no one pushes anyone, no one bumps into anyone. Football once she's called, you know, whizzball, run, run around. But it gives you the feeling of football without anybody getting hurt like that. That's flag football, that's not. Yeah, here's a question. Do you think that there's like an idea around people eating meat and what that means and so therefore, if it was a plant bait, like it was a Shoutaki mushroom and eggplant patty and that was the thing, do you think that that would go to a different market of folks. I'd be more inclined, I'd be more interested in eating it. Yeah, I would be too. And I think one one thing I would say on the other side of this coin is that when people go to Burger King and they see it as impossible burger its sparks in them more consciousness about what they're eating. Yeah, And so I would give them that. And so you've give them the credit of saying like, now the people that are eating an impossible are having these our processes of like what is the alternative is there something I can do better. I get that that's good. Um, And as Steve said, it's in its infancy, so maybe you know ten years from now it's a completely normal and healthy, productive thing for all of us to do. Because I'm more conscious that because I'm a hunter and so I know I want to make sure that that that stuff is there. But I also just know that the ingredients in these plant based things aren't without impact, Like they gotta be grown, they gotta be shipped, they've gotta be moved around to get to where they are there. So that part seems like, Um, that's where you get into the lab based idea, and then you can really say, man, it was growing in that peat just you did not leave there and you can say maybe there's less impact there man, and it gets freaky. Yeah. I'm looking forward to when you get into that because I'd like to come back and do that because because that will be actually like that gets where that gets there's a lot to unpack, So I don't know, like when you get when you do the lab thing we did the other day, and then we have there's a piece on the mediator dot com that I wrote a about it, and I started like not going, Yeah, I started to unpack it, right, and it's a it's when we talked about this last episode. It's something that it's coming. It's like one of the most invested in technologies, uh in Silicon Valley, Bill Gates, Richard Bronson, these people are jumping into this and um, the way they they can replicate these cells in the speed and which they can do, that just means that they can grow, you know, ten thousand pounds of meat from a single animal cell um. And it just when you start thinking. So here's I read a there's a think tank. There's a think tank out of London called rethink X, and they do they're big into studies of like what's the future. You know, we're gonna build a tunnel under l A. We're gonna what's the future that we're looking at? And they yeah, why the Jetsons had that ship and that was twenty years ago. Uh you know what I'm saying. And so what they said was eventually they feel that there would be molecular cookbooks and scientists food scientists could build food like they like we currently build apps. And it's a it's an idea called software as food for food as software where they would take flavor profiles from different molecules, put them in a peacher dish, add some accelerant. The next thing you know, you have whatever. In this case, they're not just growing meat on poultry and fish and a bunch of different things. And this is and they're saying by they said, by twenty thirty, this is gonna be seven seventy of the beef production of this country will be replaced by live ground meat. In the first chicken. I'd like to see that model. So I was it now rethink X it's a whole decade and there will be They think that in a decade there will have been a seventy percent reduction in domestic beef production. I find that hard to believe. I mean, I don't like, I'm not I don't want I was just looking at like, uh, purely analytically. Yeah, I have a really hard time picture in that from the numbers they said twenty years, Like twenty years is far enough away or I don't know, they're they're the basis of their study was really but there, I mean, really, there's a was the statement they said seventy but they said by there was a chance that gets completely replaced. So two and a half presidential cycles from now seventy percent production reduction and domestic beef production. We're fan we're fast movers. I mean when I read that in my my thoughts was years I was like, come on, man, no way, cow is not condos kind of guy. So I do wonder what that would mean for all that grazing land. We talked about that too, like what's that gonna mean for the value of that land if we remove that that value from it all the if seventy of the land that is, who's that is justified as undeveloped land because it's livestock grazing land? What is all that ship sell it offs at the cost your company closes just trophy homes. I guess maybe something like that. All the people who make a lot of money making this stuff will buy it all, but the lab based me, I mean, it's really let me trap. Probably not. Let's be honest, that guy that made all that money making those uh burgers haven't trapping his place. Yeah it's coming, man, it's a cool I think it's just a it's a weird time to be alive. I got a kid that's four days old. So I'm like, what's this kid gonna be? Yeah, we gotta think same. There was the atomic bomb that changed a couple of things. I like it though. I'm glad that this. Everybody that I talked to predicted this wouldn't be easy, and it was. It wasn't even also nervous almost, I was nervous for almost chickened off the last name Phil close this out, bud uh Well from behind the cope, you don't put me back behind the curtain. I would never like the fresh air. I'm gonna take you hunt. That's what I'm gonna do. That's true. That's the opposite of behind the curtain. Yeah, okay, that's it. That's ausoge is pretty nice. It was nearly it was. If you write a memoir, you can call behind the curtain. What's his last name? Nobody knows? The times of an engineer life and times the amager. All right, well, now we're going to go We're gonna excuse everybody from thanks for sticking in here. Now, the inside of our podcast suit is not kind of like a meaty sweaty. So the interview portion of the show is going to have Rachel Carrey out of the United Kingdom, Phil the United Kingdom. Yes, you've been there? I have? Yeah? Really yeah, he seems sound is something. It's you knew you've been out of here? Do they have do they have a curtain over there too? Uh? She's an author environmentalists from the UK. She has a book called Game and Gatherings. It's a cookbook, but moreover, she's kind of in the center of the controversy over there to band trophy imports. We're going to get into that with her. We also talked about women in the hunting industry and kind of how she likes to see herself and remain authentic in the world of social media and all the other media's out There. Was a great interview. I wish we could have been sitting in the same room, but it was over the phone. But Rachel was a great representative for not only her country, um, but everything else she stands for. So enjoy Rachel, Carrie, Hey Rachel, how's it going? Hey Ben? Thank you for having me? Good? Thank you. Yeah. So you're over Where are you? You're over the United Kingdom? Where are you exactly? Are you based over there? So? I am based in your which is in the North of England, hence the funny accent. So if you guys need at any time to bring in a chime later, that's fine. Yeah. Well I'm from the East Coast. I probably have a funny one to to to your ear or your guys ear. But I've I've spent some time over there. I love I love the culture, I love the people. Um, but, as I was saying before we hit records, man, I really just I've run into a lot of people that listen to our show, a lot of people that I know over in your neck of the woods, and starting to to read about what you're up to and what you do, and watching your social media, it seems like there's a heightened Uh, there's no need to miss words like just it's more heightened over there. Vegan versus meat, either that the upcoming or becoming trophy band band of trophy imports over there. It just seems like there's a heightened conversation around this, a little more vitriol than maybe there is in the United States. Although we we certainly have our moments. Um, do you feel that being over there? Yeah? I think so certainly. At the moment, I feel like I have my work cut kind of trying to counter a lot of what's I'm going on in the media at the moment. We seem to we seem to be in a time where there's a lot of kind of TV documentaries, there's a hell of a lot of marketing um going around at the moment about veganism and trying to encourage people to to turn vegan, and yeah, it seems to be coming from all directions at the moment um. So we certainly have, as hunters our work cut out to to kind of try and try and counter some of that. So it's something I've been invested in lately, doing bits of media interviews and trying to trying to basically get some fact to counter some of what the more extremist side of the arguments of putting out there. Yeah, I've seen seen some clubs, and I watch some things, and certainly was looking at your book Game and Gatherings that you've you've got out now, Um, how many recipes in that book? They look pretty good. There is fifty seven, thank you? Yeah, seven recipes. Yeah, So that's that's kind of where you sit. And I've had I had a couple of folks and friends that I know that live in Great Britain telling me that you've had a great impact UM on the conversation and lauding your your TV appearances, your book, UM, the impact you've had on social and other places. And maybe it's you know, everybody's asking why is that. You know you're well spoken, you know you're a great chef. UM, you're a woman, you have a strong voice. There's a lot of things I think going to that. Have you ever thought about why some folks think you're having this effect? Thank you? First of all, maybe maybe I hadn't thought about that. But the reason why I contact you, I had multiple people UM bring you, bring your name up in conversation and like said, two or three folks that live there. That's saying that you're you're having such a great impact. It's always really nice to get good feedback and you know, kudos, but it's not why I really the reason why I do what I do, UM, it comes from just a really genuine love of hunting and the natural world really, and I'm honestly such a big believer that if we didn't kind of look after these traditions and look after and try and bring new people through into looking after and managing wildlife that you know, one day we could we could lose it. You know, we value in the natural world and use of that. I'm a really big believer that, you know, it also brings conservation of it. So to me, it's a it's a labor of love. And I suppose being from Yorkshire, I just have a big mouth, so we're very We're very feisty. The girls from Yorkshire are quite feisty, so I suppose, you know, I was always taught from a very young age that you work hard and you really fight for what you believe in. So that's that's all I'm doing. Really. Yeah, they can say guys like me from the US coast, like the hero and voice and were be feisty too. Maybe that's what I have doing the same thing. But what do you how would you describe some of the more fraught moments you've had in this in this conversation. I know I've seen that there have been some death threats and different things um in many different arenas. For you, what do you think is the hardest part of doing what you're doing speaking out about eating meat and hunting and wild game. Honestly, probably not the answer you'd expect that. For me, the hardest part is the criticism from within hunting itself, from within our own kind of community. Um, what I found over the years to do the kind of media work that I do, and to put yourself out there to defend something which has become, unfortunately, especially in this country, as controversial as hunting, it is tough. You you do leave yourself open to I mean I have attacked on my personal appearance. You know, some really awful things. I wouldn't even like to eat them, if I'm honest with you. But I over the years found it very easy to delete and block. So that's the easy part. The hard part is when I think you think you've achieved something and someone from within the hunting community to kind of pulls it down, you know, like a little bit of inviting as in it it wasn't a good I'll give you a perfect example. So yesterday we had at the minute, as I mentioned earlier, we have a hell of a lot of celebrities, people in politics, people in the media, and a lot of journalists at the minute. Um really you know, putting misinformation out there about hunting and trying to encourage people to support trophy hunting bands. Yesterday a celebrity called Deborah Meaden, who, um, she does a TV show called dragons Den, so she's really quite well known over here. And she actually put a treat out there and she said, um, not remembering the words world, but she basically said, the trophy hunting argument is much more complex than people may think, so an outright van is probably not the best of things for wildlife. Now. I posted this tweet and I said, wow, you know, finally some senses being spoken. And then immediately after, you know, people started commenting and and it kind of came from the hunting and community and they're saying, oh, we don't like Debra Meden. You know, anything she says is meaningless basically based on her political beliefs. And I don't know if you guys saw that. I did a documentary on TLC with a with another British celebrity called Jody Marsh. Now Jody so she used to do topless modeling. We went through a week of really really hard work and again that TV program got aired two years ago and Jodi went from modeling naked for Peter basically too, she came hunting with me. I showed her my lifestyle. And after that she she did a U term on her views about hunting and hunters. So she has a huge vegan following, and she went to her following and she basically said, you know, I've been out there with my own eyes and seen this, um, and I actually really agree with what hunters do, and you know, I'm all for it. And again for people from the hunting community who perhaps didn't like her or didn't understand her way of life attacked her. So that's been that's those are the moments for me when I really kind of put my head in my hands and feel like giving up, you know, when it's no matter what you do just doesn't seem good enough. Yeah, and yeah, we're on the back foot. So any media that we can get right now, um, and any kind of public figures who we can get singing our tune for me is a win for hunting. So I just think it should be less critical of people's efforts, you know. Yeah, there's there's so many I get plenty, plenty of negativities around this show here, and it's all from the hunting community. UM, And that's okay. I I generally think that there's just too many inputs. Nowadays, there's just too many opinions. There's too many inputs. UM. When you're as passionate and generally with what you do and you feel, and if you know the experiences of you had, you know how hunting has made your life better and how it's pushed you to be a better person and care more about animals and care more about the world that you live in. UM. That could be an absolute that that drives you. But there's so many damn inputs. There's so many people that have something to say that it's tough, UM, And I wonder do you feel you know, do you have you tried at any point or thought it was necessary to look at kind of the culture over here and compare and contrast, UM, you know where we are. I just don't. I think hunting is more supportive here than it is there. It seems to me there's less vitriol and there's more talk about conservation. It has its moments, it's not perfect. There's many the same issues that you're dealing with, but it just seems more intense over there, especially given that trophy being Yeah, absolutely, I mean one of the big one of the biggest things against us. I think is you guys have public lands to hunt over, which is why you are you know, you're incredibly lucky with the wildlife models that you have so set up over there. They work both ways. They work for the wildlife, they work sustainable utilization by the people living and working and enjoying the wild and enjoying the natural resources that you have. Um, it's very much out there. Hunting is for everyone, I believe, you know, it's from old backgrounds or kind of working classes, whereas in England our model is completely different. So the land is privately owned for the most part, So you cannot in America like you can do over there, just you know, buy a tag and pain to wildlife conservation and help with managing it. It's over here. I think it's got a very kind of elitist element to it, or so people think. I don't know if you know how so we have very large country estates. Are our lands kind of split into estates where they have a very big country house. M Have you seen Guy Richie's new film The Gentleman? Yes, okay, so you you saw where the country estates they had to these huge houses that cost absolutely fors to manage and so peasant shooting and kind of shooting and beer parks used to very much the only for kind of people, you know, of the mannor bomb people who owned these houses and these big estates. So it's kind of seen as a bit of a closed club. I mean, my dad is a very big peasant shooter. Now he's a self made businessman. He built a business, you know, from things from the ground up. He's from quite a poor mining community. And he says, Rachel, when I was a lad, beyond the pheasant I ever saw was on the boundary estate and he said, it's because we were coaching them. We were basically stealing them. Um. But a lot of change since then. A lot of these big country houses are, you know, the open land up. It's a lot more accessible. There are more affordable ways to um to get into hunting and shooting over here. But it's still is perceived by many as being quite an upper class, elitist thing to do. So I think a lot of the struggles that we face with hunting of the head age being a class wall basically. I've had, like said, I've had have listeners this year right in and there's one who's written in a bunch of times. John Walks, he said exactly that. He went on. He sent me one of the more striking emails. I was getting ready for a show one time, reading a bunch of emails, and and he basically paireded what you just said in one of his lines. He just said, regardless of any honey issue you guys may have to face in the US A, please always remember how lucky you are in that you have a system that supports you. For the most part. In this solemn story, you can hunt our native deer in the UK if you're willing to pay. Of course, some places are more reasonable price wise, so it's still possible to fill a freezer. It's not all doom and gloom, but it's not what you have in America. UM. And it's it's a long email, but that's just one of the couple of paragraphs that struck me so. UM, you know, so profoundly like that. We we need to understand here are might As you said, our model of conservation supports what we do, supports us and supports wildlife. UM. So it's a great mix. And you know, the the more error, the aristocratic model that you're describing, um, is what we're kind of afraid of here in many ways, the public land being a democracy, everybody pays into what everybody gets to use it. Um have you? Have you? You've done a lot of talking with vegans. I watched a couple of clips from from TV shows where you were debating or talking to vegans, and then again a couple of clips from that TLC show you mentioned with the vegan. Um, what's you're feeling about that movement? Where where that is? And how it is to sit down? I've done this, how it is to sit down and talk with somebody that's so entrenched in that ideology. I'm a big believer in showing people. I think none of us could do what we do. None of us could truly be hunters if we didn't actually believe what we were doing, if we hadn't gone out there and seen you know just the kind of the beauty of hunting, the how natural hunt is, you know how much good it does for conservation. You cannot sit at a desk on a sofa on the TV program and or sit and talk to a journalist in an office and you can't put that into words. You have to show them. So I found the most effective way of doing that, and the most effective turnoment was for Jody marsh Show. So I what I often do to to um to try and make those conversations effective. I had, for example, a newspaper wanted to talk to me about hunting in Africa recently, and I said, if you're prepared to take for the flights, I will take you and we can look at hunting and conservation in Africa, but we cannot sit in England and you know, talk about that the recent one that you saw on this morning with the more militant vegan, those kind of conversations where you know, I don't know if you saw that interview, he was very angry. I did. I did. I was able to to some vegans and emy rights activists that were less angry. But when I saw that, I just you were very calm and collected and try to deliver your points. But it's such a sound bite battle. It just seems it seemed kind of sad in the way that he approached you, that guy was angry. He was, and I feel like people like him use the animal whits guys to kind of hide UM. I think if he wasn't an animal rights activist, would be maybe a football who the gun. You know, I don't like to judge people, but he's passed. He was. I mean, you know, people reform and I'm not saying he's the same person, but he I feel like he just placed that anger somewhere else. And I feel there's quite a few animal rights activists kind of videos that I've seen in the UK, and I do often wonder. I kind of look at them, and I think you can kind of tell that these people have never stepped foot foot in the countryside. So it always begs the question as to why they are trying to stop legitimate shooting or hunting or wildlife management taking place if they aren't really that invested in the countryside in the first place, because they don't spend time in it. It's difficult to I mean with regards are going back rambling on there, going back to Joey as an example, you do meet very angry activists. I suppose that's their cause. Anyway, It's not really much you can do about that other than try and keep it classy and hold your own And as I mentioned earlier, we don't get much media coverage for hunting, especially not in the UK, so you have to use each opportunity just to kind of get your own sound bites out and your own as much information as you can to counter some of what they say. Why do you why do you think the media, I mean, we find that here as well. We've talked about the last podcast with our last guest. But why do you think the media over there um ignores these narratives or at least perhaps up the other side, because it doesn't. It doesn't create Quite simply, it doesn't create clickbait, does it that they want? They want the sensationists. They want high emotions equals high profits if something's really emotives. If you know, if you've compared a headline of you know, local wildfowling group creates habitat and brings you near extinct duck back from the brink, not many people would click on that because in reality, so many people are removed from the countryside and land management that not many people would be interested in that. However, you know, hot blonde hunter slaughters ducks with a picture of you know, a young woman with a duck in a hat, that people are going to click on that, So you know, they're putting in my opinion, they're putting sound conservation models at risk for clickbates. Basically, they want these high emotional, sensational stories because that's what selves. One really worrying thing that is going on at the moment in the media is some our current Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, his girlfriend Carrie Simmons, is actually an animal rights activist. She's anti hunting and she's very vocal about it. And at the minute we are seeing quite a lot of conversations in government which seems to stink quite a lot of her own emotional opinions on wildlife management. So it's a scary time and you've got to ask yourself who's in control of the media. Um, And you know, if you have people placed in government with such agendas, then we don't stand the chance to get any sound, you know, good informative information. And it's a shame. Yeah, yeah, And I think that goes across across Europe. There's a lot I've seen a lot of threads um from folks I know over there. Similar what do you take folks here in the States that aren't aware of this trophy hunting import band take them through. I don't know if we have to cover from start to finish, but as well as you can encapsulate what what's happening now and what's load of this. Basically, death Or have launched a consultation into looking at the potential ban of imports and exports excuse my dog, imports and expots um into the UK. This would basically mean that our Scottish stred deer, which quite a few times I mean Scotland's beautiful. We have quite a few tourists from around the world who'd come into hunt. They wouldn't be able to export their trophies, um, not just in Scotland, UK wide, and we wouldn't be able to import trophies. Now it hasn't been made clear just as yet if what species this includes or if it's a total outright ban on all species. So we're going through the consultation stage at the minute. Death Wreath, who is our Department for the Environment, has basically asked for people for people's opinions online. They've now extended that for a month. The very scary part about that they had a meeting in Westminster last week and invited to that meeting were basically people against trophy hunting, but no one from the other side. I think it's quite a scary peek into where that one's going. So there's so much science international used for the conservation of nature. How u c N supports trophy hunting in many ways, there's there's so many you know, my friend Shane Mahoney has worked with them. We talked about this a lot. The community, community based conservation is something that has worked in a lot of places, not just Africa. And so that that seat at the table isn't being given and I wonder how, I wonder how in European you might be able to change that as you can suing too talk or is there are other texts you could take. Um, this is a really bad week to have to to have this conversation because it really has just been such a frustrating week. Um the i u c N report. I I kind of asked myself and what does the UK government just like wasting public funds? Because as you say, you know, the i c N is the largest environmental and conservation group in the world. It's made up of all of the conservation and environmental organizations. So you would think if they know they spent all of this time and money compiling this report with all the necessary experts, the science, the data that they needed. Um they even have WWF in their stating you know, hunting brought even black winers back from the brink. So you would think that someone in the UK kind of government would look at this and say, well, there you go. We can't we can't do a better job than that, really than that report. They just don't seem to be reading it. And this is the scariest part. We have people in such high positions in government just not reading it. I had a quick look on Carrie Simmons, Boris Johnson's girlfriend's Twitter earlier and I mean she's tweeting these news articles from media outlets I suppose would equate to being your version of CNN. So just would not trust I think these guys say. Yet, this is you know, someone who is in this position in government, who is tweeting the sensationalist headlines, you know, to her followers. And I've sat this week and thought what can I do about this? Um? You know, I I either sit and keep banging my head against foot wall, you know, what can we do about this? So we have a few things are past sleeves, you know, to try and kind of lobby to government, UM, but just to keep plugging away. And I think the biggest battle here and where it can be won or lost is investment in the media. UM. And they're obviously invest in a lot going back to be going back to veganism as well. In the same conversation today, a newspaper reported that Channel four, which is one of our big TV stations, is coming under investigation because they have aired i think for UM anti met taking programs documentaries this last few months. UM and they have just been whistled blown that they have previous to air in these TV documentaries. They have actually invested hugely into a vegan food manufacturers, so they've invested into a an alternative you know, these alternative meat burghers. So it's a battle of the media, I think. So whatever we can get out in the media without sinking to the level and using propaganda and misinformation, that is why the key is that costs. That costs money. So it's investing into that in the first place. That's so exhausting. I read that report from the i u C and most of it you start looking at one of the things that that struck me. And this has been the case for for decades decades since since conservancies were introduced in Africa. Really you're looking at habitat loss and fragment, fragmentation, conflict with the local people, UM, like the depletion of prey basis and illegal poaching and all these things that are threatening wildlife. UM, real issues that are threatening around wildlife, And i uc incomes out and says, listen, trophy hunting is not a threat. It's not a key threat to the survival of the rhino, elephant, the lion, all the species that were mentioned in that letter, UM just aren't. They're not. They're saying this isn't in threatening And then you turn around and read some of these articles you're talking about where it's like, well, we have to save the rhino from hunters, and it's just it's it's insane. I don't know what any other way to describe it other than insane. It's scary, and there's been so much of it this week. I work closely with a wildlife biologist, Adam Hart, and we have the same conversations week in week out. We kind of this week it feels like it's been a competition to see who can find the most ridiculous, ridiculously outrageously from an ante and it really does feel like that at the moment. It is scary times for the uk UM And yeah, I mean I speak to guys in the you know, the n r A has the Hunter's leadership for him over there, which I think is just such a fantastic scheme where they had people pay into obviously an arm that is set purely to to defend hunting, and we just don't seem to have that over here, you know, anything like it. I mean, you have myself, and we do have governing bodies, but we don't have anything with as much clouds as the n r A d. Yeah, scary times for all of us, really, when public opinion can sway so much. Yeah, when it becomes politicized, like it seems as you're saying, it seems to have become so intensely politicized. You know. When you're over here, you know, we have right and left, progressive and conservative, and and when you start to you know, gun rights has become a very conservative thing, and environmentalism is a very progressive thing. When you start to label each one of these groups with these ways of thinking, in these ideologies and these lines of thought, it gets dangerous because it becomes a political game who can who can get elected by pandering to whatever side. And it seems just from what you're saying that that it's really intensely connected to one type of thought, and these politicians can capitalize on it because most people tend to tend to lean towards the sensational and not the complex report from an international governing body of conservation. It's crazy. It feels like we've turned with social media. We we kind of turned into you remember the kids books where you just turned the pages and its pictures and very little words. It's like everyone, everyone has lost the ability to read. You know, I tweet you today and I said, you know again, I'm mentioning her again. That carries in and you know, she's she's she's kind of in my fights at the moment. Has been my biggest start. Aversar is your muse right now? It's getting your going? Yeah, yeah, I'm like, do you know do you not read? What is? You know? What is wrong with you? But yeah, when we are playing with something as complex and and it's important as wildlife conservation, we should not be using that, you know, as a political poem to play to the emotions of people and winds out. Um it's and I see it being used by politicians and celebrities. You know, it's who can cause the most outrage and really, um, you know who can get the most retweets from such an outrageous posts these days it's such a shame as well, it really is. Do you get more to like the core argument here and how you would try to and would shape it in the in the situation that you're in. You know, there's there's a consequentialist argument right ethically that says, well, collecting parts of an animal's body is no good. So even if it does good for animals, yeah, it consequentially is not It's not a good thing to go forward. And and I will admit I've always said this on this show that you know that it's not trophy hunting, especially community based conservation. The way it's set up in Africa is not the way um we set it up here, and it's not the most effective way to have conservation for wildlife, but it's the best way right now for Africa and there's no better way. Um. Tour is hum is too fickle. It just won't support financially what hunting has supported. So I guess a couple of questions. One, is there anyone over there actually coming up with a better idea to fund this conservation and to make sure um, this this wildlife is propagated. Is anybody coming back at you with like, hey, here's my idea? No I had, So I'll just keep it in the UK locally, um, where it's really quite simple. You know, we have six deer species over here. UM. Most of those are actually invasive species, so they are non native. UM in the UK, we have zero natural predators for dear, UM, so no bears nobles anymore. I'm sure you'll know. UM. And so the two people who have recently gone gone up against Joey R. Cart Armstrong, carb Stan whatever we calused himself. I asked him the question off air. I said, you know, I explained to him what you know, they have no natural predators, you know, explained about the if the population exploded and got out of control, it was actually detrimental to the deer, it was detrimental to other wildlife that shared that ecosystem. And I said, so, if you're a true animal of you know, what would you do with these deer if we didn't control the numbers and hunt them. Um. And he just looked at me this really big blank expression uh, and just kind of stared, really blanking, and I said, no, you know, you have to have an alternative solution, and he just kind of stuttered and said, UM, well, I haven't thought about that yet, which again is really quite dangerous to think that these people are so into banning something that works for the environs and for the wildlife. They're so hell bent on banning it, but they don't have a solution. And the same with I went on another daytime TV program to discuss there's a guy over here who hans veganism recognized as a philosophical belief. I don't know if you've seen that. I haven't, but I'm not surprised. Yes, So he and very oddly, his employer was one of the biggest animal rights activists groups in the UK, so he won't a case to have his veganism recognized philosophical belief. So I discussed this on TV with him, and I asked him the same question and I said, you know, what would you do if hunters didn't manage to do? What would you have us do? And he said, well, I would translocate them, so he would His answer was to move the problem around the country. Yeah, just put them on a boat. Yeah, that's fine. I talked to the Animal rights actives here and we're talking about he was really about bodily autonomy and the lack, you know, in reducing suffering incentient beings. And then at the same time I asked him me, and what do you do, um, you know, with bears that kill other bears, what do you do about predatory behavior in the natural world? And his his answer is basically eugenics, that we would capture them and reprogram them so they're nicer, And like he's he said it in him he had his own rhetoric built around at that point, but that's basically what he said. Um, it's similar to what you're saying. It just is it's these points aren't thought out. I wish they were, because I would love to have an intelligent discussion around this. I'm not saying I'm a percent right. I'm sure you would probably say the same thing. It's just you can't really have a conversation with somebody that hasn't thought it out very well. Yeah, exactly, I connect to me. Um, you know advising NASA on space trouble. You know, I have absolutely no idea about it. Why would I be then trying to influence government policy or you know, trying to have a say over the scientists on this matter. It's it's insanity, um, and it's is It's scary. It's scary. It best for me. You know, if I'm not gonna if I don't hunt, you know, I'm still going to survive. We live in a modern world. I'm still going to survive. I'd probably be a very, very miserable person, but the fact is I would survive. But my biggest motivation with all of this is not, you know, just to preserve my right and my natural need and want to hunt and and to have access to good quality food. It's really, it really is for wildlife and on a global scale. And I wish that was their motivation rather than their hatred or misunderstanding of hunters. I wish they would switch their motivation to be what's the best for wildlife and then we would all soon get along. I reckon hunting one of the best things. Yeah, yeah, it's weird that I guess. Here's a flat question for you, because I thought about this a lot. Um. Do you you if you were to a raise kind of the way vegans and animal its actors kind of treat us as hunters or look at us as hunters. Could you get along with them and like them and see their points of view? I mean, do you totally dismiss everything they say? No, I think we have quite a lot in common. Actually, Um, I used to be a vegetarian when I was younger, and the way I stopped being a vegetarian was basically my dad took me hunting, So I became a vegetarians. The advent of you know, these kind of behind the scenes of factory farms and animal white sactivism in the early night had really taken hold, and I'd go shopping with my mom and to be someone you know, with a table stall in the town center. Show me these horrific images of pigs in horrible factory farming conditions. So I turned vegetarian. Didn't work out for me health winse. I became quite an EMI when I was little, and my dad actually took me hunting rabbits. And I think it says in the introduction of my book, by the way, the squeaking in the background is my dog. You just say, I'm living who living the life? This is what I do. Yeah, So Dad took me hunting and it was that really that convinced me that you know, this is actually it doesn't have to be you can be a meeting to be ethical about it. So a lot of my conversation with vegans and vegetarians lately has been that and not all the same. You know, not every vegetarian or vegan is actually against hunting. And I think this is an important point to remember when we are communicating and you know, the dialogue that we're using the rec middle ground and was common ground to be found. And I do think that that's one of the most important things to remember. There are people on the fence, Yeah, like the gentleman you ran into during that morning show interview. Um, there's you know, I've tried that same tact, and I believe in it. I believe that you can talk to somebody that you vehemently disagree with and find common ground. And unfortunately or unfortunately for all of us, UM, I have a lot in common with vegans, UM a lot more than UM, maybe even maybe even some hunters in the way that I think. But there's a hard line I take when it becomes an angry ideological hatred that that spills over under wherever, especially what you've what it seems like you've gone through on social media and and you know, live on television things like that. I think it's um if it's a hard thing to get through. And I don't know when it'll end or if it'll just if we're just fighting the last battles here for hunting and for for meat eating and for wild game. Who knows, UM, But I think I think your book certainly will do will do good. But what are you do? You what do you see for the future? If you look twenty years in the future for the UK, what do you see? But I think first of all agree with you each side. There are some big and who are not not vegans, anti hunters, disposis could call them, um who are There's no middle grounds of these people. It's their way or the highway. You've got to understand in life you're going to have that that you're going to have that that you just can't give up because there is middle ground and there are people on the fence. It's those people we need to focus on. UM twenty years ten years, five years, it's scary to think it really is. I mean, we do have, we are fortunate to have fantastic, fantastically beautiful countryside in the UK and it is mainly looked after by people who found the land, who use the land for game shooting. And I just hope that it's still there in years to come, and I for one will be, you know, continuing my work to do my part to to fight that. It's scary times the trophy import export for me personally, to cut a long story short, in five to ten years time, I can see myself not being in the UK. But you're welcome here anytime. I thank you so much. I can honestly see that's where it comes from. If they get their own way, I can see a very barren, wildlife devoid UK if I'm honest to do where there is value that where where there is value in nature, in wildlife, there is conservation. It just there's so much evidence to support that now, you know. Yeah, and look and comparatively loving the natural world and um, I'll use the word love for the Second Amendment and I right to bear arms. Those are two things that I've kind of built my life around and two things I care a lot about and two things that professionally and personally I carry with me. And um, you guys don't have the right to bear arms in the way that we do. And like I said, like I was telling you before, and I've had my friend Ian Harrison on this program. He moved to the United States because they took away his right to own firearms and defend himself and his family. As a member of the military, he had to deliver his firearms to a police station and turn them over after the Dunblane masker, And the next week he picked up and moved here and is now the editor of Recoil magazine, which is one of the more popular gun magazines in this country. So if that's not a stark example of what you may go through in the future, I don't know what is. Yeah, I think, um, I think what you guys have about there Again, you are so incredibly lucky. Um Our going ownership actually states in our gun laws is a privilege and not a white um. So I think straight away on the back scoot anyway. Even even just going ownership in this UK s brand upon. So you can imagine gun owners who go out hunting as the anti say, you know, fluffy bunnies and poor defenseless animals, innocent animals. We're just we're very much on the back foot. I don't want to lay the blame anywhere, but I really really do feel that our governing organizations are shooting organizations should have done a lot of preventative work in the years running up to the times that we're in now. So, I mean, in two gallum and Bore, we saw the fox hunting band. I would hate for two thousand and twenty to be, you know, the trophy. We have a specialist group at the minute called Wild Justice who are trying to band given peasant shooting in the UK in any way that they can. It's coming from all sides. Um. I just hope that we can ride out the storm and yeah, or ride the storm to America. Ride the storm was yeah. I mean I think, Um, it's an interesting time. It seems like I've caught yet. It seems like there's just way to have you are you and I can hear in your voice it's it's a tough thing. It's it's something that I have not faced here in regards to my hunting. We do fight for our public lands. UM. But in general, the hunting community is in America is crowded around our public land to making sure we continue to have access to them. And we talk a lot on the show about our North American model conservation, how great it is, UM. And it's just if compelling is not the pressing to me to to hear about the situation that you're in. Yeah, I think a lot of people, I think we've just become such it so you know, not to go to kind of deep into, you know, the problems with society. But we just as we want, seem to be the kind of more self involved nowadays in social media, and it's there's a lot of virtue signaling going on. And I don't know, I think, UM, in my world, my job, I'm an environmental impact assessor, so I am a chartered member of the Institute of Environmental Management and Assessment. Blah blah blah. But that's you're blah blah blah, yeah, blah blah blah. Lots of lots of letters. But basically my my my job and my role is UM. It's all centered around understanding how human activities basically affect the environment. So for me personally, I can take that model and my expertise and I can kind of think about hunting in different countries based around that and basically on the different models that I use. So for me personally, I think that's why I get so invested in Yeah, I see the bigger picture, the overall picture. I see how you know, the ban on trophy hunting impatching to the UK might affect you know, Africa, you know, and it's yeah, for me, that's why I suppose I get so passionate and personal about it. You know, it's meanful lot, it's you know, it would have a great impact. People think too locally rather than thinking globally. You know, Vegans they think, you know, they're doing great by not eating meat, but then what are they doing? You know, how far were their avocados traveling, what's the environmentally impacted the food that they eating. It's just it's so so complex that everybody has um, you know, an impact somewhere. And Yeah, folks that listen to this year regularly will know that I'm always talking about this idea of you know that wildlife management, ecosystems, how we consume These are very complex ideas, always shifting, always moving, based on technology based on our own our own pliferation, and those that they're very hard to understand. People spend as you spend your entire life trying to understand them. Um. And some people feel like they can become an activist for an idea after meeting somebody on the street and watching a video or reading one or two articles, and then they become entrenched, and it's hard to get them out of it. Um And and that's just that's just sucks. It's it's hard to face someone like that when you obviously what you've done in your work is commit to understanding all these complex things. But I don't want to let you get out of here without learn a little bit more about you. Um. I would like to ask this question, and I think there's so many similar answers, but when do you remember, as as a child, when was the first time you really fell in love with the outdoors or when you when it first struck you that this is something you wanted to do. Oh, here comes my unconventional child cudget. Let's see, I want to learn all about it. So, um, not only am I a Yorkshire ago, I am the daughter of a Yorkshire scrap man. So it kind of qualifies me as being on the same in the same league as the sopranos. Um. So, my dad bought a started his business very humble, and many years ago bought a site which was set down in an old quarry, like a limestone quarry, and it was flanked by trees and bankings, and we actually lived in a part of cabin. Dad kind of he said, you know, our build a house eventually when he'd made his fortune, but we lived in a part of cabin at the time. And this site was just surrounded by agricultural lamps, so we had constant streams of rabbits and rats and all kinds of things. So as children, we spent a lot of our time just outside, no susan socks, you know, no help and safety back then, just running wild on the yard. Really, we were really lucky just to be quite fair as kids. Um and I just remember playing the trees and in the mud and with the animals, and we had terriers that we would use to control the rats on the yards, so we were always wetting. So I suppose in a way, from a very young age, hunting has just always been a part of a part of who I am. It's shifted over the years, and it's different forms, you know, going driven peasant to saying I still love ratting with my terriers. You can't ratting, yeah, but there's looks. So yeah, just I suppose all of my childhood memories in some way have hunting in them somewhere along the lines. And one thing I do remember as a kid is the very primal thing of that our yard was like an old trading post, so you had all manner of you know, you'd have farmers coming and wanting a bit of scrap metal to fix the tractor, so they'd bring Dad, you know, sack of potatoes and a few pheasants, you know. So food was also kind of very much involved in um in what we did as well. It was you know, you had we had an Indian guy who would bring his wife's absolutely amazing home cooked Indian food, and so I suppose from a very early age I was just yeah in them both. But Dad, yeah, it's I always had sperrits for the kid as well. So so that was Dad's way, I think because I was absolutely animal mad, animal obsessed, had loads of pets, and I think Dad come in to me basically to go hunting because it meant that I've got eight new pets spirits. Well, that's anyway, and your mother yourself, right, I am, Yes, I have a fourteen year old son. Um, Well that's a that's an interesting age I just had about our second son. I've got a three year old in a five day old. Um, I'll congratulate, thank you, thank you. I've not slept very well in very a few weeks. So when you think about raising your son, um, where you do and it kind of trying to help him to deal with always talked about and also maybe give him some threads of what you grew up with. Um, how do you kind of put that together in a parenting philosophy that you can tell folks? Well, I think it's important never to kind of push your own views because you know, overall individuals, Um, I think, without blowing my own trumpet, what I think, how I've kind of packaged what I do on social media in the media with my book. I think I packaged it well to sit in a modern space. I mean, it's one of the reasons I wrote my book because I wanted to put something out there that reflected, you know that not all shooters are kind of old men in dustry jackets, and I do get quite a lot of young people who follow me, and some of my son's friends follow me, so he he actually thinks it's really cool and he'll say, oh, you know, my friends have been watching you shoot, and it all like to have a guy at shooting. And so I suppose it's just keeping it relevant and being being modern about it really, you know, keeping it relevant to what kids are doing these days, and taking them out there, as I said, with aunties, and letting them experience that and learn for themselves, you know, from a very young age. I let Brandon just come out and I didn't tell him to do any of it, but he was, you know, taking the pheasants, and it's just a very I think kids are inquisitive about the natural world anywhere. I think we naturally have that within us. So I think if you exposed them to it, they excuse the pub They take to it like a ductor water. So yeah, yeah, now we've we've talked about that a lot here and I think that too, And I think as long as you give them the opportunity to do it, you know, and I always think of just telling my son that be yourself, you know, just be yourself. And if that's not if you don't share all my passions and you don't share exactly what I want to do, that's okay. As long as you're being yourself and you're and you've got your joy and you're holding onto it, that's all. That's that's totally fine with me. Um. So I think exactly. I think that's a great way to look at it. Now. You have game gathering to the cookbook and like I said, fifty fifty seven dishes in there, and a lot of it is um as a more European like feel the fork flavor to it. As I was looking through some of it, Um, how's that been impacted your career and how long did your work on them? Well? I started writing the book I think two years ago. I always make people laughing and say I can't actually cook, But for me it was something. I mean, I built a profile, um and had a lot to say, and I thought, what's the best? Um. You know, people gain followers on Instagram, and I'm not knocking any of those people, but they kind of used that following to negotiate deals to get free outdoor gear or you know, sponsorship deals, and I thought to myself, rather than using my profile to do about what can I do to tell a story about what I do in a universal language? And I think they're saying about food. You know, the way to people's hearts is through food. Um. It works. And the book. I don't know if you've read the introduction, the way that I wrote the book, and the way we put the book together. It's not aimed at just being for hunters. I've tried to make it a place for non hunters to kind of start their journey and understand going um, like I say, in a universal language of food. Um. Very oddly, it's taken my career obviously down a different path. This year. I've been invited to lots of food festivals and food demos and lots of ugly places, to the point where I've actually sat down and thought, I've become this foodie person and I've not really done much shooting. So I don't want to just be the one thing. But I just thought. I thought I had a responsibility to put my legacy out there, and I thought what better way than food and than with a cookbook. UM. So I hope that that's sort of thing that will be around for many years and we will be passed, you know, down to people's children, and they can I wrote the recipes in a way where the pointe simple that they can be tweaked. You know, people can add things and change things. So hopefully it was just a nice legacy to leave other than you know, using my following. I like it. I like it something I always we bring up here, and you just kind of touched on it. I think it's means something to end with. You know, you're not just one thing, right, And a lot of times on social media or in the in the public forum, people want us to be just one thing. They want to label you a certain way, especially for you, um being like you said, being a female in this industry, it seems like the hate is more intense, the love maybe is more intense. Um your position in the community, UM just being different than the traditional hunter, as you said earlier on like all that becomes this real complex soup of who you are to people, and I'm sure that's hard to manage. How do you how do you try to do that or how do you think about that? Because you can be stereotyped really easily. It is it's a really hard thing to manage. When I started started shooting, I it was before kind of Instagram and social media had really taken off, and I just spent literally hours and hours and hours under towers, shoots and plays on the range. I was just absolutely obsessed with shooting target shooting. And then I got into the game shooting. But I spent a lot of time honing my skills, so becoming the best shot that you know, I could possibly be. I shot competitively for a while, and I am me, I'm not going to go in the field and you know, not be myself. I'm still a female. I still enjoy dressing well, I still enjoy wearing makeup, but that doesn't detract at all from my ability as a shooter or a hunter on my dedication on knowledge or experience in the outdoors. What I did find in the UK um there weren't many women in the field, so it wasn't usual to see you a petite blonde, you know, shooting. And I did get met with a few founds and a bit of this and that on social media comments, and I found that most of these comments were the very kind of old guards um, you know, old English side by side shooters, you know, the very you know that I haven't quite got into the facts that women can vote now, and yeah, I can have jobs and stuff. So one thing I did to counsel act that I took myself to the British Side by Side Championships and I came eighth overall out of a hundred and sixty odd of these aforementioned shooters. So just show them that you can shoot. You know, I don't think I never expect special treatment in shooting, and hunting is one of the few things that men and women can do equally. Um, you know, there is no physical limitations, so I don't ever expect to be tread differently in the outdoors. And I suppose, going back to what I said earlier about the books, I think I feel like female hunters or hunters just for stock, because you know there are men out there doing as well. Get a bad rapp lately with kind of using using that demographic to sell products without doing the time in the outdoors kind of learning and learning how to shoot first, So that can be disappointing. And I think, you know the instance, someone sees a pretty blonde with the gun, they instantly assume that you know, she can't actually shoot, she's just posing. That can be disappointing, but you just have to stay through to yourself, have integrity and I try and you know, educate people to get out there and learn what you're doing, and you be respectful of game. Don't do it all for the social media kudof and the likes and all of that. Life would be so much better without social media. In some terms, that's so much worse than others. So it's very true. You take the bad and the good. Yeah, it's very true. I have been listen. I listen to a lot of podcasts myself and read a lot and and um and all walks you know, and there this is a big conversation with a lot of people, especially people that have have a celebrity and have attention on them. Um. I hear it all the time in these podcasts. People are thinking about this and like I said, there's so many inputs. You get so much inputs for so many people, and those people don't necessarily care about you. They don't necessarily have your best interest in mind. And that's a tough thing. Um always. But I really appreciate those words. I think here in the states, we've struggled with the huntress mentality across the board. UM, I think you know you're being at the will be able to see what you're doing and in your career, but also how you've spoken here. I think can can help some young women who are don't want to fall into the hunter's trap, but feel like maybe the industry is pushing them that way. UM, you know, can fight against that and try to be authentic and grow and not want that fame right away. UM. I think that's great advice. I do think the industry is a big part to blame. If I wantest to you, then I think if any brands you know would be listening to this, and I think more conversations need to be had surrounding this. I mean, it took me a good twelve years, um, and I got approached by I think six major shotgun manufacturers over those years, and you know, for me to be an ambassador, to be sponsible with their guns, and they're going to make me a really nice pair of guns, and you know, all of these really really you know, wonderful offers, but my integrity said, well, you know, I don't feel like a shop for long enough and deserve this. You know, there are probably females out there who are much more rounded, better, more experienced shooters out there. And I don't want to have a sponsorship based on the way that I look. I'd rather someone respect me for my ability and you know, being able to shoot in my experience and knowledge. And it took me twelve years and I bought my own gun. And I see girls now who have been shooting or even six months, and you know they get sponsored instantly, and you can't blame them. You know, if someone knocked on your door and said, hey, I want to give you something free, I'm going to cost you a lot of money. Yeah, of course you are. But I think there's a danger in this, and that danger is if it's clothing, fine, I don't have a problem with it. I look. You know, I would be the first to admit that I opened Instagram, see a beautiful woman wearing a dress and buy it because I think I'm going to look equal ease beautiful. It's a great admission. Yeah. But with things like shotguns that are such technical, you know that they are technical, they require knowledge, they require experience. Um, I think there has to be a conversation in the industry by these brands, because for people coming in, I mean myself and a lot of other people work hard to try and bring new blood into hunting. If they follow some of these accounts and see that they are sponsored, it kind of gives them a badge of um credibility almost Oh well, they must know what we're talking about, boret bonds of them, you know, UM. And I think it's dangerous because if that person is new and inexperienced and they put information out there that isn't correct, you know, that brand has then given them credibility to So it's definitely a conversation to be had in the industry. I think that's where that's where the change needs to come. People are tiring, tiring of it. I think so too. I think there's I think it's it's cyclical. It'll come back a little bit. I mean, I grew up with you know, American hunting heroes that were writers and that we're on TV and that that seemed to have been vetted and then we're you know, getting up there and hears a lot of them because they've been doing it forever and it's now it's so hard and there's nobody out there. Um, it's not like sports. There's nobody out there following your every move and um saying whether you're doing good or bad. So it's it's pretty easy to um gather following based on the way you look or what you say. Uh, and forget about the other parts, which the shooting and hunting craft, which and and really the environmental part of it as well, and understand the natural world, um, environmental knowledge and all those things. So you know, we talked about in the last and last episode environmental like you being something that's important for all of us to understand and how we learn about everything around us. So I really do think hopefully, um, we talked about it here all the time. I mean, I think our demographics, my demographs are this show is like guys and eight sent females. I don't want that to be that way, but it is. It is what it is. So hopefully that eight percent it is here and what you're saying, and can you know I can move forward in a way that that's um, that's helpful, I think. So I think you know that all of our focus should be on education and encouraging, you know, making sure that our traditions and hunting and the environment are looked after for generations to come. But I think, you know, new conversations need to be had and people need to Um. It's very telling of the world. You know, everyone wants to hang out at the finish line without actually running the race. These days, we live in such a fast paced world. So I just think we all need to slow down and go back to Yeah. Yeah, there's nothing better to slow down than go hunt, go in nature, go test yourself to shoot a clay, as you have done over many years. Well, Rachel, thanks, thanks so much for joining us. Keep doing what you're doing. You're on Instagram, Rachel Carrey hunting and the book is Game and Gatherings and um, like I said, nobody, uh, no publicists called me on this one. I've just been following you, been seeing what you're doing, and I've been hearing about this trophy band and hearing from our listeners about what's going on in the UK, and I wanted to give that some maritime and definitely give you some maritime because it's a great conversation. So thank you so much, Thank you so much for having me. And if Carrie Simmons is listening to this, you really need to learn how to read krs like Carry Simmons is your mus right now to get up in the morning, check that, check that Twitter account, check chet account, and go to battle coming for Carrie versus Carry. Thank you for having me. If you ever get her in a public form, you let me know. I'll be watching. Yeah. Now, you guys keep up the great work as well. You know it's it's all the joint effort what we all do. So just keep supporting one another. We will, all right, Rachel, Thanks, thank you, Ben, see you. That's it. That is all episode ninety nine in the books. Thanks to Rachel. Carrie calling in from all the way over Tottenham. I think that's how you say that. That's my favorite, um or my brother's favorite football club. You Tottenham. You revealed yet another layer of the come on you Spurs. Four thousand UK people will get that. Yeah, all four thousand UK listeners are going to get that. But that's what that's a higher number of that thought um And so thanks thanks to Rachel, Thanks to Stephen, Kylie, Karen and uh Phil Taylor last name Taylor? That's right, what's your middle name? Michael, Charles Charles perfect? So I'm not wow thank you so much after all this, Phil phill the engineer to keep him in a cage talk. Thank you for calling me by my name, my Christian name. I care about you. Okay, thanks, stay with me, don't leave me here in this room, small tiny room. All right, Well you'll bring any more fake meets in here, all over the table. I will not it all over to table. Phil was super nervous before we recorded this that we would ruin the podcast studio forever, and well, I don't know that we did that. But there was a lot of like condiments in places they shouldn't have been. For sure. Everybody's everybody's shirt that they were wearing had little dribbles of grease on it from the blindfolded meat eating. It's fine, O not recommended. Don't wear a blindfold when you're eating a hamburg um. But it was great. It's all fun. We're gonna keep covering that, you know, before we go on this one. This is I think a shorter episode, so I feel like we could ramble on a bit at the end here. Um, I wonder how many people are still listening. They probably go ahead and hit hit stop at this point, but we're working on you know I was working on with Krin the producer and Filled the engineer. Uh, kind of what we're going to try to explore this year on the Hunting Collective. It's like the best year ever. So what are we gonna do? You're gonna go to New Zealand for one, That's one. I had a lot of other ideas. Now Phil doesn't even know about this. This is the only thing I wrote in a word doc and I didn't show it to anybody, but number one, we're gonna take Phil Hunt. Phil is gonna come to Texas and Turkey out with me. There has no choice at this point he's doing and now we've announced it to everyone, so it has to you know. I was also thinking of and I do you know what you know? Oprah? I believe so yes, oh yes, Oprah and Steadman and Gail. Yeah, the next president family, Oh, the next president United States? Maybe the next eight years. She's probablyn't win. Um. She has the book club. Yes, it's probably the most famous book club. Yeah. I was looking at looking at that. You know, I'd like to read books, and I thought, why not create my own book club? What do you think about that? We had a lot of people right in there, like, Hey, every damn guest you have on has a book. I can't keep up with that. I mean, you've you've dropped so many names of books on this podcast. It's a big book podcast, Like it's already a large book club. But it's just not official yet. It's not official. So we're gonna we're gonna announce maybe in the next episode. I'll commit to it. Next episode, we're gonna give details of THC book Club. It's gonna it's gonna be good for you, trust me. But you just have to read, which assuming you would want to do um if and if you're a reader, you could be a winner, and the TC book Club you might get a car. I don't know that al right, whatever now I'm just rambling, but came up with that idea. I like it. THC book Club. Looking, we're looking for that an episode one hundred, wede it we made it. What do you have to say for yourself? In the years of BP, we never thought we would get this far, but well, I just want to say that you wouldn't have gotten the one hundred without me. I think that's obvious. That's that's clear, clearly obvious, all right, well, we had a great episode this time. We'll see it for episode one hundred. Episode one hundred, we're gonna give a lot of stuff away. We're gonna celebrate you, the listener. We're gonna we're announced some really cool stuff, contests, other things you're gonna give away. It's not just no Zealand around here. Tune in next week we'll see bye bye. The Hunting Collective with Ben O'Brien is a part of the Meat Eater podcast network. It is produced by Kringe Schneider and engineered by Phil Taylor. You can find it on iTunes, Stitcher, Spotify, the meat eater dot Com, or anywhere podcasts are downloadable Wherever you listen, leave a five star review and subscribe.

Save this episode