00:00:00 Speaker 1: Oh hey, it's another episode of The Hunting Collective. It's me Been O'Brien and today we got a good show, a real good show. We're to start it with. We're going through We went to the heart of Washington, d C. I think one of the more interesting conversations we've had on conservation here recently was with Wit Fosburgh and he's the President CEO of the Teddy Roosevelt Conservation Partnership better known as t r C p UM. Wit is he's a d C lifer, The man knows conservation. We talked a lot about kind of the inner workings of the conservation groups we saw love and we give a lot of our money and time to what really is the impact? What are they able to do and how are they able to do it? Um and a little bit of wits background and some of the things that he loves, UM and we did are we We launched a segment called Proved Me Wrong. We also have a segment in there as always called hot Spot Cool Dude, one of my favorites because it makes everybody nervous, and I like that we lead off the show with something totally different though than Wits conversation and that's a conversation on me Eater High Fashion, Baby High Fashion with three of the lovely ladies in the office. Katie Finch Ronnella the Life of One Stephen Ronnella. She's got a lot of good insights about Steve's fashion choices. Tracy Crane or VPS Social, she came from the fashion world before she joined our company, and then Maggie Smith. She's in post production and she's also been on an Instagram account called Hipster's and Bozeman, so she fits well and on this podcast, and she's one of the more fashionable folks you'll ever meet of any gender. She's cool as hell, so you're gonna love her now. I will admit that last episode we talked about including more ladies on the podcast and a legitimate fashion and then we had ladies on to talk about fashion. I admit that might be oxymoronic in nature, but I had fun doing it, and I think these are three incredibly funny voices that joined the podcast, and we had a good conversation about the action or lack thereof of the men and women in the Mediator office. So hopefully enjoy that. It could be the first of many or the last time we do it. That's all depending on your reaction, So you let me know at THHD at the Mediator dot com. Before we get to all that, we're gonna talk real quickly about First Light. I was up rolling around the mountains of eastern Oregon with a man, Kevin Harlander from First Light Lack a couple of weeks ago now, I guess it will be a couple of weeks ago. Now. Turkey season is coming to a close, and we were hunting turks man, and we got two good turkeys on the ground, two good times and one day and running really running and gunning. Um. And my favorite piece and Kevin I had talked about this a lot in the what was my favorite piece when doing That's the Men's Kiln hoodie. That's the Men's kiln hoodie. This thing is is like a midway Marino X material Marina five percent spandex. The sucker has a half zip on it and a hood It's great for both concealing yourself and turkeys are in your zone. You can pull that hoodie up, get your face mask up as well to cover your face, and you're almost completely concealed. It's awesome. It's lovely. Uh. It's one of my favorite pieces for that reason and the fact that it's breathable. I use it as a mid layer, but it can also be a perfect bass layer when you're out running around, running and gunning. It certainly breathes, it doesn't hold in your stink. It does all the things that Marino does. So look at the men's killing hoodie. I've pretty much worn it on every Turkey hunt this season. Have killed four birds, um, and it's done me well every single time. That's the men's killing hoodie. Look it up first Light dot Com. Now onto the show, let's go. I guess I grew up on in all the Road do the meadals always did what I told until I found out that my brand new clothes looking in sick in hand from the rich Kid's next and I grew up baths. I's like me. They have a thousand things in sad in my head I wish I ain't seen, and now I just wanted to real bad dream of being in lack. I'm coming apart of the scenes, but thank you Jack Daniel. No hey, everybody, welcome to the Hunting Collective. I'm Benjamin O'Brien. Um. It's we're gonna put this out on nineteen, So May is almost over. I'm sad Turkey season is almost over, very sad um But we have three lovely guests here on the show today. Tracy, we're gonna say everybody's titles. I feel like that's important. I like to be more mysterious. It's would be like a first name only Trace, Trace. I've had a lot of nicknames in my life. We could go down the nickname path a lot of what's your favorite nickname? We'll just go with that. Um I really good one from college was crazy train, Crazy train, Crazy train? Now why crazy train? Please tell? Do we really want to talk about that? Is that not descriptive enough? Well, listen, if you if you look at the mediator social accounts, that's Tracy, that's her handiwork. That's the brilliance that is not necessarily just mine. It's a very huge team effort. It's a crazy train over there, that's right. But I try to wrangle it as much as like it's out of control that we have Katie, Katie finch Ronella, you're married to one Stephen Ronella. Correct, and you're also the it's not going to give titles. That's boring kind of mediator, Yeah, and very important. Capacity agreed that we have Maggie peace, what's up, Maggie Mary Margaret full name, Mary Margaret's full name. That's very biblical. I like, and you're actually will say that that Maggie Mary Margaret over here was like the creative visionary behind the turkey video me dressed up like a turkey. I mean that was a lot of people's vision. I just helped put it together. Yeah, it was a crazy train, that one. And so you, but you spent lots of hours editing I'm the Man. There is a point where I was like, is this funny anymore? Because I can't tell it's midnight on a Saturday, weird looking beard, guys yelling I'm the Man for hours on end. So well, thanks for your your that's really I'm glad it was a smashing success. I mean it was good works. Now everybody at b J Ronney was yelling across parking lots and in restaurants I'm the man across I'm like, yes, that's thank you. That's my kid's favorite video. Whatever is it? Yeah? Yeah, well they might want to go back and watch it some more. You know, you get it over YouTube channel to check it out. Yeah, there is there like a special address for it. No, just go to the YouTube channel, our YouTube channel, just to try me to eat her on YouTube. Stevenilla haunts a unique turkey. That's right, that's the name of it. And perhaps it could be Ben's first Academy award. Right now, Maggie, tell us about this idea. I heard about this the other day. It's very interesting. Um why I just ran it by Steve. But we're going to do some meat eater oscars coming up when it comes awards season, So we're gonna have you nominated as a turkey cal is the Butcher. We got Jeffrey Carl's Jeffrey, so it's gonna be hard to beat Jeffrey. Oh yeah, I think black Tie that's a perfect compare work party and I would like to I just will like to ta like be in the turkey suit and every time there's another video tackle the person. Just keep making cameo, Just keep making cameos and then just run off the screen yelling I'm the man and run off. Hopefully you worked that out for you, will It would be an oscar Is to go down in the history books. Anyway, Vote for me, always vote for me. Whatever you're doing, vote for me. It's very important that I get voted all than whatever capacity. Now we're here today to do a lot of things. We're gonna we're gonna get to a very special segment of the show in a minute, but before I want to want to go over some reader emails. That's not reader. You don't read a podcast to you, you listen to It will be listener emails. And the first one is a poem. Oh cool, Yeah, I don't think any other podcasts get poems. It's a bad poem, because there's really nothing worse than bad poetry. Well, we're about to find out I had a first boyfriend a lot of bad poems. I don't feel like a man that writes poetry is going to keep a girlfriend. Very no, no, no, But if it's good, did Steve and Ronnell ever write you any poetry? Not poetry? No, but the love letters? It sounds like, Oh, I mean, what's the good of dating a writer? You can't? You can't. Yeah, I should write more love notes to my wife. You absolutely should. Sorry, honey, I've written some, but not not in the that's been a while. Do you keep them? Like? Have you kept them all? That's so sweet? You need to share those with your kids too, quote unquote love letters. Okay, I see where we're going. I'm sitting here in the dark by the candle lights. Alright. This is this is Uh. This is by a fellon named Bennett Jacobs. And he he just says, um. He was out turkey hunting. He was inspired for this little bit of poultry prose. He thought we would all enjoy it. I'll do my best, Bennett, to read it. Uh, And I practice a little bit. It's called gobbler in a tree. Gobbler, gobbler in a tree. Why do you insist on taunting me with your beard of flapping in the wind. You sent my head into a spin right up there in my front yard. Well, i'm a neath the landscaping, or I'm beneath landscaping. Hard What made you ascend the tall pine long before normal roosting time? Was it a yodi, a dog, a cat that made you act irrational as that? For here on the family farm in early May, they're still risk of harm another time, another place, you'd be catching a shot in your face. I realized in spring hormones surge without fail, and you're just another dude out chasing tail. At any rate, you'll get a pass. I just can't take a bird like that. I can't help but think as you sail away, perhaps you and I will meet again one day. Oh. I love that. At a certain point, I was going to say that would make a good children's book, but then we got to the faith in tail, face shooting in the face and chasing Well, there's a certain time of year where but that's a guy that I was. A good job turkey and a female turkey really love each other. Phil has a very good job. That Benet job. I mean, it is not an easy thing, not at all. And he did he rhymed tail with fail, you know. I mean I thought being under the landscaping hard was a little bit of a stretch. Yeah, it tripped me up, but you made a little But how do you How are you softly under the landscaping or hard? He was landscape from concrete. He just had to make make it work. But a for effort forever that's cool. Yeah, good for good for him for writing and taking the time. I mean, I really appreciate what he's doing now. Also How many people here watch Game of Thrones? Negative Nancy, Now, no Game of Thrones watching. Watched the first two seasons, but that's watching it, watching it, but I haven't watched anything else. How many seasons are there? There's eight, there's eight. You watched them along to Yeah, I watched them in college during finals. Terrible idea. So I stopped. Just have not God, I'm glad. I'm glad because this guy Scott wrote in. He said, if you're going to talk about Game Throns, please put in the show notes where it starts and stops so I can skip it. He said, I've read all the books that are out, but don't watch the show. Other than that, I really like the podcast spoilers spoiler. He's worried about the spoiler. You dead the books though, Yeah, oh I took that is that he oh, I took it as and he didn't want to hear about Games of Throne, And so that's why you wanted to skip it. Games of Throne just spin off games. It's a series of games about one throne, one game about a series of thrones. Now you can really doubt that. I don't watch the show. I want to watch it, but I am worried that I'm going to lose like months of my life. Yeah, I mean it's a commitment you will to big deal. Now, your husband, Steve is a devout hater of Sereal Cereal, of serial television, even in any drama and anyone. Yeah, this is it's very annoying. M hm. He likes certain content, mainly like documentaries and things that have a very clear beginning. And I say, okay, it doesn't. I can get on board with that. But you're missing out on so much content if you feel that way totally. But I guess he travels enough hunting and he's very like, right, just like that thing where you eat chicken when he's not at home, chicken is delicious. Kids are like so they're just guilty eating the chicken, like, finish it before dead, eat it all, bury the body in the backyard. Well, it's good to know. Yeah, he's not a big fan, but people did, like people were a fan of him not liking Game of Thrones or thrown Aims or whatever whatever crazy train over there calls it names. Coming to fruition here anyway, keep righting into th HC at the Mediator dot com. That's of course th HC at the Mediator dot com. That stands for the Hunting Collective if anybody's wondering. And now, well, you know what I forgot to say. The interview portion of this show, we're gonna have Witt Fosburgh, um who is. He's the man at TRCP, and we're going to be in d C talking in with some very interesting conversation come out of that. But we have a very we have a very important thing to discuss before we get to Wit, and that is high fashion. Oh not just fashion. We're talking now high fashion. I feel like high fashion. And what do you define as high fashion? Ben? Some of the fashion above the other fashion people in Colorado. It's hard. It's hard, it's concrete. But I got some I have some some music. Hold him for this segment. Hold on, this is professionally done. We're gonna it's gonna be up. We're gonna about four more minutes of this here. What I did for this music is just googled fashion music and that's what I got. So it work. This makes you think you're walking down the runway. You should give us a little a little round. I was in a runway video. I won't remember that one time. Yes, and you had a bang bang shot him up. Yeah. I wonder if this is this? Are we allowed to play this on the podcast? Oh it's got words? Oh that's a well known song, is it? I think it's like a certain amount of time you can progress? Definitely? Was there a certain amount usual? Well that was like seconds? Sweet Um, all right, welcome to High Fashion presented by the Hunting Collective. And this is me talking about high fashion with our three guests. And now Tracy is the most qualified here. Well, I don't know about that. I would say it's too bad that everybody can see what I'm sitting next to, because I would say very equal from like a CV standpoint, from a resume standpoint, Yeah, I've spent a lot of time in fashion, But I would say from a style standpoint, you and Maggie are the style icons in the office. Yesterday we were in a meeting and you were wearing shoes that had like bedazzled like a tiger and a heart with a sword through it. Yeah, weren't they dope? They were dope? And I was just like in this in this exact room in a meeting, like what what's that? That caught my eye? Fashion, high fashion, you have an eye for having Yeah, And I feel like the reason why I wanted to have this conversation. It's very important to me because I feel like the men in this office there's no fashion going on, like very little some some some like almost adverse to fashion. It all depends on how you define fashion, right Like, fashion is a way that you articulate your personality and kind of your persona through what you put on your body. Right, Like, you want other people to see you, yeah, totally, and if you care how other people see you as well. But I feel like even with those who claim they don't care, it's all part of a deliberate effort of like how you're presenting yourself. These are choices you're making. So I think the boys in this office can the guys in this office wouldn't all dress exactly the same if there wasn't an aesthetic totally that they were going for. The plaid shirt seems to be a winner. Oh yeah, and the beards, the bed Yeah totally. You're grooming is a key part of fashion. Okay, Well, Tracy t Bone crazy training, give us, give us your experience in fashion, and then like I liked how you define fashion um, but like kind of give us as overall picture of how you see fashion in the mediator office, like how people you know, how people are approaching it, how people are approaching fashion office. I feel there's two factions. I feel that there's the people in this room not including me, and then every other bum walking around. Well, look, the reality is women and men. For the most part, there are exceptions to this role. Look at fashion differently. Women definitely take a lot more enjoyment in it, and I feel like men typically focus on it as like a function, right, Like they don't typically enjoy shopping or finding new things, or trying new styles or trying trends. And again this is an over generalized statement, but I like women typically love that. We love to try new trends, We love to play around with new things, like to have fun with it. Men, it's like function. It's like you guys were talking the other day about how your pants need to be a certain length for flip flops. It's a function thing. And also I was like, well, when you find the right pant, you're buying like ten pairs of them and throwing them in your closets so you never have to think about it again, The idea if I had ten pairs of the same thing makes me begin to break out and hives, like you know, like I feel like I think like that all the time, Like if I could just this looks nice, if I just get four or five of these, Yeah, totally, totally, But then there's the whole trend around like the uniform or like right, the French way of thinking about fashion, and my understanding is there's like several really nice pieces, but like maybe two or three or four per season, and you just wear the ship out of totally and then you move on to sort of your next uniform. I would appreciate that, not necessarily having a bunch of the same thing, but like having a very limited and making it easy. Yes, it's interesting that you say that, because back in the day when I used to work in fashion and do marketing for a brand that spoke to women's, men's, and kids a bunch of different categories, the way we marketed to men was so vastly different. The idea of like making a list or like giving them that like fail proof, like this is what you wear and these are the outfits and this is how you style it. So literally, like a checklist was like really effective, Like that worked really well, and I feel like women like to have a little bit more fun with it overall. However, I used to know as editor who would shop and where she would shop. They would take pictures of the outfits, and then she would hang the outfits in her closet just as the picture looked, and then she would go in for the day and be like, I'm going where this look today, and she'd like pull it all out and the picture would be there, and she'd like get dressed just like that, and she'd like be on her marry way that. If I could do that, like ideal, I would be nice, Yeah, somebody like they're there, that's Tuesday, put that on. But shopping, I've learned it's better to go in like if you're like, oh I love that shirt, yeah, just have them style an outfit for you, yeah, and then buy the outfit and then it's like you don't have to think about it totally. She's one thing I don't I don't want to think about, and I do want to be like, but it looks put together, totally totally interesting. All right, mag you want to give us your fashion, like what you've been featured a couple times on The Hipsters of Bozeman. Shout out to those folks. You're in a safe you're in the trust tree in the nest. I'm a hipster too, don't worry hipsters. It's cool and so usually made it a goal to get on that page and got on there. I was like it on there, like right, I think, So two featured did you know photos were being taken a view at the time, No, I didn't. And one of them I'm standing like heels together like in this duck pose and it's just like the most awful fun But I don't believe there could be a bad photo of Thank you. So what you know, what you're putting together? Your on sounds? What are you thinking about here? Um? It kind of depends on the day, what I'm feeling, what's in the moon. I like to play with stuff, like Tracy said, like, I like to put stuff together and test it out and see what works. And I have a lot of old stuff for my grandma's and my great aunts that I've hung on to their like specialty pieces. But then I'm not afraid to go to Target and just like by inexpensive stuff because it's trendy right now, and then I'll sell stuff later on and just move through. I like to try out different things. Yeah, alright, I definitely failed in my fashion attempts, right like that part of the part of the fun never seen it. Um, let me hold on, let me go back to the music amount. I'm gonna need some inspiration for the next part. All right, Um back to now we're gonna talk about the more important topic is the Mediator crew and what they feel about their attire. And we're gonna start with Ronella. This is what this is really all about. We're trying to get it, like, who this man is, how does he function, what does he think about? We definitely have the expert in the road to help us. So this is all a big ruse to find out how the mind of Stephen Roanella really works. What he thinks when he goes into his closet. Now, I think in the last Mediator podcast that we did, Steve's just talk about only showering like a couple of times a week. That's correct, correct. Not a smelly guy though, right, So it actually works for him in the in a way that I don't think would be for other people. Remotely acceptable for Cal agreed with him. It was like, I'm you know, the least amount of showers the better. Yanni and I were kind of one, like we would shower every morning. It's there, you turn it on and just get in there. It's easy. Doesn't that a whole lot to my life? So that's where this I started thinking that really looking around and I've been rooming a lot with Cal lately on the road and where I will like maybe have a shirt pressed by the hotel staff to go like to an appearance where people are looking at me. Cal will yank. He'll pull He'll have like a duffel bag, and in the duffel bag will be the same shirt that he always put but he pulls it out, kind of like you're a magician would pull a scarf out of it. He just pulls it out, and I'm like, well, there's no he's gonna put that on. And then he puts it on. It's just the most wrinkled. It's like a tissue you found under the couch. He pulls it out, he puts it on and goes on and cows like the most popular person on the face of the earth. So I'm starting to question like how how I got should act. But so let's start with that idea. Start with that idea, and then we're gonna we're gonna go forward. But Katie, can you tell us just a little bit about Steve Rinella and like what how he he picks his wardrobe for the day. Oh, it's like what's laying next to the bed that he took off the night before and then he puts it back on. That's literally what happens. And you in the past, you've had to chide him into like wearing Oh, for sure, go and brush your hair, like I mean, he's not. You know, you guys see him every day he looks like he just rolled out of bed because he just rolled um. But occasionally, you know, like especially he does a lot of speaking events, so we've I've taken him to go and buy appropriate clothes for those events, but he doesn't really when he finds something, he just wants it to be very functional, like he's not. It drives me nuts that he can't just like find like a great pair of jeans that it's there his dress jeans and he can wear them for dress the occasions, and then he reserves them for that like he will put them on and they will have grease stains on them, you know, within days. He was very I spoke with him recently on the subject. He was very adamant about laundry being annoying and that like he would like your children just to wear like like less the same clothes more days in a row. Yes, he we actually we have such a disagreement about laundry. Um. We very much split up duties in the house. He does all of the cooking. I do not cook at all, Um, but laundry is something I actually kind of love to do. I kind of like mellow out and like, so now what I'm doing laundry And he won't let me do his laundry. He insists on doing his own. Law Drey to make a point about um washing all of the rags that we clean the house with with his laundry, because this is why I wanted to have this conversation, because he feels that it's all getting washed, and I'm like that that one cleaned the toilet, and he's like, but it's getting clean. It all comes out clean. So anyway, it's like and I, you know, like if I lose, and by losing, I don't have to do his laundry, then okay, I'll lose all day. But there was a certain sweater though that he wore at the office a couple of times that we very great love that sweater. I bought that sweater for him. Can you describe has a cowl neck? So sorry cow no cowl neck, a whole other look. Actually I should buy him. You're misrepresenting what you want him to be wearing. If people are thinking you're asking to put a cowl next sweater on, people be like, I understand why you only wants to wear a sweatshirt. I'm just picturing being like a black and white pattern that would be funny. Yeah, thank you're a shawl collar sweater. And I think he looks very handsome and that sweater, I mean he's striking. Um. But he was like, yeah, the guys were like bullying me about the sweater, so I think I'm going to get rid of this. We were getting them hard on it. Yeah, because he just does like he normally just wears kind of whatever. You know he's wearing that you never notice what it is. But then when you would just like it's like shock and all. You can't throw that into the page. You can't make like a Thursday decision. You girl throw a shawl next sweater on. But now Janice could wear that sweater and no one would blink. And that's the next next part of this is that you kind of have we don't have is married to Cal, but no one is married to Cal. So you guys can someday, Tracy, can you hopefully some day? Although he came on this podcast, he's never he's just saying that. I think he's saying that to drum up attention. If I say hard to get, you know, hard to real, hard to get as hard to get as possible. But yes, he calls didn't wanna get married? But Tracy, give us a quick review of Cal's style, Like we kind of know that, you know, Steve goes with a rolled out of bed like dirty rag situation. Cal's style, I would say, is like very like it's like effortless, but I actually feel like it's like effort going into the effortless look. I would agree with that. You know, I was going to say the same kind of right, but I feel like it's part of like how he's presenting himself and like it works very much for his personality, Like even the way that he talks and like he's a very like slow but like very deliberate speaker, and like how he presents himself, like it's very much all connected. You don't have like a finely tuned mustache like that if you're not thinking about what it is that you're putting on and how you're putting it together. I feel he has the soul of an eighty year old man totally. He sometimes puts he'll wear the pocket with like the shirt with the breast pocket and put his cell phone in that pocket. Yeah, and somehow something a young man would do, but that's somehow works for him. Like I feel like nobody would look at that and be like that's peculiar, Like all right, yeah, there you go. Yeah, you know, why would you put it? Like the fact that he wears his hat, Yes, I was going to bring kind of like up a little bit or his stocking hat, like he kind of wears it like Steve Zuzu from My Potic right, Like he like smaller, it's almost like a larger Yamica. It just covers the top of his head, which is a very hipster thing to do. Cal I'm just going to throw that. Yeah, he's got a little but it's kind of like an eight year old man that traveled back in time and was like, I could be a hipster. I don't get the sense that he puts effort into his clothes. I don't know if it's efforts probably the wrong word, but I feel like it is thought through, not like he's spending you know, five minutes in front of the mirror making sure that like you know, but it's just it works for what it is that he's trying to like communicate and emulate. I feel like I would say on a scale of like it's not really a scale, but I would say Janice, without being obnoxious about it, probably puts is more deliberate, Like Janice hangs up his sweaters, you just know that, totally, totally going into his closet. Totally. I would say it's nice then Ben, Oh, then caldn Steve. In terms of the four, yeah, totally. Who who's giving a ship the most most? Wouldn't you say that who looks the nicest? No, it's not, it's just like who puts the most effect into there? Absolutely it does the nicest. Yeah, I guess so. But I think there's an important factor in terms of putting Janice in Ben on the kind of top side of that list, and it has to do with fit, like the way that they their clothes fit like suits their body. They fit nicely. It's not oversized, it's not that has a big part to do with like how you look in terms of like are you do you look presented? Presentable? I guess if you will. That leads nicely into a story that Katie told me about Mr Ronella, an old pardy can you tell can you tell us that story? Yea. So we were in we were in Paris for our tenure winning anniversary. Um, not not a place Steve has particularly wanted to travel, but I was on a work treas but he was. He was, you know, being a good husband and knew that I wanted to go. So we went. And I wanted to go shopping one day just because because it's parents. Yes, so we go and I was like, we should get something for you and um he so we He was like, yeah, I'll get a sweater and he was arguing with the woman at the shop about what size sweater. The more tailored sweater, the smaller sweater definitely looked the bust to fit the way this swater was supposed to fit, and Steve just felt like it was way too tight and couldn't do it and there was no way, and he was like, this is it's not supposed to fit this way and she's like, I can guarantee you American, Like, yes, it is definitely. That would be the most popular Meat Eater episode ever. It was just it was just Steve arguing with a French shopkeeper. So he and he actually he has this swater. Now I don't know. Oh, I don't think you guys got this. It's it's gray. It has a little detailing on the shoulders. I've seen it. Is it a V neck or no, No, it's not a neck. It's got Yeah, I remember the sweater. It's also but it's always very wrinkly when you see it. Yeah, I always struck by that. Did he get that in France? That looks like something Steve would have gotten in Paris as he does that vortex? Sure, whenever we got that Wisconsin. You know. The weird thing too, is that he hangs up all of his T shirts. But all of his T shirts in our closet are hung up, and there's probably like wait, but he doesn't hang like that's the only thing he hangs up um that and he's got some like sport coats for Is there any way you can do a video of, like could you do a video of just like going down the shirts hanging up with this music. It's just it's so ironic that the T shirts are all hung up, but then the sweaters are in like a crumpled pile in. It drives me bananas. He also we realized when we moved. We've we've moved every two years for the last eight years. This last move, I realized that he has never dry cleaned, like certain clothes that he's bought and had for ten years have never been dry cleaned like ever, but he's worn interesting, it's gross. I mean, these are not clothes you can wash. These are like dry totally. Who's said Mitch Hedberg has that joke about if it's dry clean, only it's dirty totally. Alright, Well, we gotta move on to Janni's particularly so he is the eagle, the fashion icon of the office, I feel, and it's mostly just because he's this low bar elsewhere, but like he definitely the Katie made a point that if he often would wear the same kind of thing that Steve would wear as they do, as they do a lot. Yanni always looks like he thought it through. Yeah, I'm telling you it has to do with fit. It's also what he's pairing it with. It's the fact that it's like not wrinkly. Yeah right, Possibly do think Joanni presses jeans? You feel nobody presses a gene. If you're pressing your jeans, you should be spending your time doing something else. That is a tragedy. Yes, I agree with Like I'm going to stop khakis. Okay, yeah, terrible. All right, Well this has been real helpful. I feel to just get to the soul of our mediator, to get to what they're thinking. In the morning, I wanta um, I want to put you on the spot and take you to task for something. Now we're having we're having a conversation about fashion, and you have the ladies, us three ladies in here. That's interesting. Oh yeah, no, I knew that was coming, So talk to us about that decision. Well, I mean, Tracy used to work in fashion. You have all of the Steve Ornella knowledge that I wanted. And Maggie's awesome and has been. Yeah, I just I think it, you know, is worth clarifying. Oh for sure, No, I'm not. Uh yeah, I mean I'm screwed now. That'll be it for me. It's just thought this one out, alright, Cal that's an awkward ending. No, I um, I feel like you're the most fashionable regardless of gender. I would I would say that all these two ladies next to me, and for you as well. I feel like, here's this sad thing because um, this is you know, the bar is not high, right, like we are not working at Vogue for those that know what bogus do you know what bogus? It's an old ship. And also we live in Montana, we're fashion. It was very low. Totally totally. I'm trying. This is my attempt to try to bring up the fashion. And I feel like there's there's a dichotomy in the office where all of us like low hanging fruit guy, like we're just putting on whatever. And then when I see you guys, I'm like, oh, people must think they're going to work at a different office when they come to the door, like why are those three three people? I love it. It's like I love it. I wanted. It's like something I enjoy. Yeah. This is the thing, though, is that there is a curated look that every has that's here. It doesn't take more effort to be quote unquote more fashionable. It's a choice that everybody is choosing, right, So, I don't know. In some ways, I feel like the dudes here could step it up a little bit. That's what this is really about. But don't always look very nice. I have to say I take a lot of ship for that. Okay, they give you a hard time. I think that's yeah, my Brokay, here's the deal. My brother has worked for Abercromi and Fitch. Oh that's right, you told me that. That's why you were that old school Abercrombie T shirt. On Socialist somebody made a comment you can update your wardrobe, remember that. Yeah. I did not like high breast stripe in there. It was surprising because typically you wear a collar shirt. It's very unusual to see you in a new often work. I like this. I like to know. I feel like my grandfather wore suit and tie every day, three p suit and when he went and when he came to dinner, he would take off his vest in his jacket and put on a smoking jacket. He was awesome. And then he wore a fedora quite often. I like that, and like, how far have we come? Like wearing sweatpants and flip flops. This man was all it was hot. He was probably a hot a lot. I felt like sweat Sure, so we've come generation, we've come, just not like we've gone that's fashionist. I feel like gone, gone way down. Yeah, caring about it, well, thank god, I'm here to help turn the top. I will never forget when you first, both of you first came into the office and I was like, oh, thank god, I'm not going to be the only one getting crap from Steve. I will never forget him give me crap about my white Doc Martins. We just sat next to each other in the meeting and I had my foot up like this on my knee and he goes, It's like, so Steve, be like my Doc Martins. No, I wouldn't say I like them. That's the other thing. I mean, that's a whole other podcast. But like opinion on what fashion should look like like if Steve doesn't have a ton of opinions on like what I wear, but if he could dress me every day. I would wear probably what I was wearing in like the late nineties, like boot cut jeans and like it's like that's not where we're at today, but he has. And then the cowboy boots that he got our first you know, first present. It's like it's great, but I've warned those for fifteen years. We're going to evolve. Has a bit of a pushback when you wear like like fashionable like fashion. I mean, he's like, what's that. He's like, those are hideous that you're wearing high waisted jeans. He cannot get into, and I'm like, tuck it in, man, absolutely down. I'm so glad when it was like Paris Hilton right was like the crash and they're really low and my mom was just like, you cannot wear that stuff leaves out. Those are supposed to be coming back. They are going to guys, that's what fashion does. That say, you're talking about your Doc Martin's not to age myself, but like we were wearing Doc Martins when we were in middle school. Like, don't get rid of your stuff because it comes back in fashion. Like note to people who have like special items, keep them because it will be relevant. Like that's so special. The problem is I try to do that now with accessories, but in the whole, like I like to condole my closet every once in a while, like a clean out situation, like does this bring me joy? And off? That's very lovely. But you have a basement or like a place you could store stuff. If my mother had kept stuff that she like wore like, I would be wearing it now, you know, because it would mean something more than even just how CHICLD is wearing a wedding dress at work. Actually, I will say my favorite dress that I my favorite dress that I had that is very special, and and I will give it to Rosemary when she's older. It was my prom dress when I was sixteen. I got an a vintage store, so it's like it's just like a seventies son dress. It was my prom dress when I was sixteen. I wore it to Um, I wore it to our engagement party on Steve and I got, that's so cool. And then I just oh, I was gonna wear it if we did a ten year like vow renewal, but we I didn't do that, but I still love it and said, that's my grandma made all of my mom's and my aunt's dresses for dances, and my mom saved all of them so when we went to we had the opportunity to wear them. Oh yeah, I forgot what she said that I didn't say. Oh, so that there's that for you. That is so bored you guys, we can take this conversation. Why this is a revolution? First, we did Bachelor. It was it was? It was Bachelor. Ye, the Bachelorrette was Bachelor. I had Colden that was on the Bachelotte. Did Colton never get with Cassie? By the way, I don't know. I don't watch that crap. He was the Bachelorette your French sorry, the Bachelor. The Bachelor did the last five? Did she win? She made to the last five? And that's pretty that's pretty as whitney because they didn't like she didn't they didn't make much. She shack up with the Bachelor. No, no, that's like last like three. You mean, like, would you like to go to my special fantasy? Yeah, that's like last three. No, okay, yeah, she was one of the many things about that show wouldn't work in the real world. You said that to somebody, Hey, I don't think anything. I'm calling the police alarm bell. It looks like it. It looks a lot like a van from where I'm stay as you are, fantasy, you should drive it up the block. All right, we'll hold on a minute. That's how we're going to close it out. Great. I think we're gonna do take a way to do this again. I think we should do it again. I think we should bring have you guys be a panel and bring in other people. It's like what they're wearing and just judge them. That would have to be a version. Yeah, yeah for social you know toads. Yeah, all right, thanks, crazy train. Kay do you have any nicknames? Like not not any that I would It will go like k bone, what mag's mag Mag's was? What give us a nickname? I think this is my college friends call me Cougar short for cougar, cougar go for younger man. No, they would yell at story, and I don't want to. That's why I like nicknames because they always have a great story. So like you'd be walking across the quad and they'd be like, it's me and my other friend. We're all right. Now we're gonna make the most awkward transition the history of podcast. We're gonna travel to Washington, d C. Where we're talking to talking to with with from the TRCP about very important conservation issues in the United States. But he is a very fashionable man. That's what we should cover. That is he fashionable? You feel he wears like a lot of tweed type items, doesn't he yes, but he looks I mean not that I'm judging with by, but why what he's wearing. But he looks very put together? Think yeah, he does. He always wears like a suit and he's he's a mover and shaker about Washington, d C. Um, I like that. Let's let's real quickly pull up a picture of him. Let Tracy judge wit So you think that's like in the relationship. Well, you know it's cut this part. It's not loading, so it's a sign it's a little bit more of that here he is. Yeah, man, like a blazer. I don't know why it's not loading. He's like always wears a nice blazer and nice button down shirt. Love it. There's nothing better than a blazer, nice sport coat. Totally. He's got flowing locks. Really, hair is hair is so great, my dad. I think hair give the wind blows like his hair blowing locks like shoulder links. Here's another locks here here he is he just oh, I see, I don't know if I would call it flowing locks, but I can see why you say that because it's a little long and he's got some nice yeah feather feather a haircut. He has an actual haircut, just like it's like he doesn't cut all his hair off right like woman got done by his his is um daughters right right like some other people in the office. Uh all right, well wit fashion icon with Fosberg coming up right now. Thanks, thank you. I guess I grew up on an alder row. Hey he little Ben. How's it going, sir? Good you. Oh, it's good to be here. It's good to be in your home and Bethesda. Well, it's great to have you here. Yeah, you're overlooking the river. You got you show me that that? What was the c I A is listening to every word we say. I was gonna say if they're not listening when we record, they're listening afterwards, Big fans, big fans and collective over there. Shout out to everybody over at Langley. We appreciate you, um, but well thanks for having me in your home. We always like to start this by describing where we are, so you're the man to do it. So we're about two miles from the DC line, right on Potomac River, um in the town of Bethesda. All there was no real town around here, and it's all pretty much green swath all the way into the Georgetown and it's one of the cool things about this part of the world. And you're from around here, so you know this is that it's unbelievable park land. So we can walk right down and we get on the river, you get on the bike path and it's all open park land all the way into the city and access to the river, which is fantastic. Yeah, it's a little bit flood stage out there. Oh yeah, it's been basically a flight stage with the past year. Yeah. Well it's a beautiful Thanks for having me, Um. There's a lot of real serious things to talk about. But I was looking into your background and I saw that you were a member of Team USA and then World fly Fishing Championships Downhill since then you peaked seven just about Yeah, what's what's what it is to be in Team USA for the World fly Fishing championship. Well, I'd like to make it sound more grandiose than it is. Please do that. Well, I know, I know, and that's my general temptation. But since this can be fact checked event, it will be honest with you. Uh. That's the first time I've ever been held in you s and they wanted to have you know, the trial limited At that time I was working there would be the beneficiary of the any proceeds from the contest, so they wanted somebody from tu to be on the team. So my boss at that time, Charles Goffn, you know, basically tapped me to be in it. So there was no major tryout. Damnit, I thought, you're gonna have to No. No, there was no athletic tryouts around, no, no. But it was it was fun and I didn't totally embarrass myself, so that was good. Big fly fisherman, Oh yeah, of course. I was growing up. I grew up in the wood lotton up state, New York. Had a little trout stream that ran through a property, no neighbors. So my brother and I you know, started you know fishing at a very early age with a fly rod. Most of that time, there was a worm at the end of the fly rod. But it didn't matter at us either. Man. I grew up smoked trout. Yeah, and then we had a camp in the Adirondacks and you know, bass fishing up there as well as trout fishing, and you know, so something we did all the time. Yeah, Well, you you made your wife got a lot of I got a lot of secret facts here, I think, uh about you, but I'm not gonna throw them all at you. But you you've actually got into conservation. What was do you remember like a seminal point in your life and your career where you really I thought you could do this for a career. I thought you could do this for rest year life kind of because I have some of those moments I've talked to other folks about that you have. Yeah, so it was. It was actually when I was getting out of college and I went to Georgetown here in d C. And was a government international relations major, and I had sort of fancied myself I'd do it for a service school and you know, going abroad, and I was just so bad at languages that you know, that was out. So at the end of four years in college and realized I probably still knew more about you know, forests and woods and wildlife and hunting and fishing they did about general politics. So at that time got a job with National Audibo Society writing for them here in town and doing a little bit lobbying, and then went back and got a professional degree and environmental studies, and uh, it was just seemed pretty natural. It was the way I could try to sort of make my advocation my vocation. It was I always wonder about, you know, as as time goes on, people ask how did you get where you are? Right? And I don't know that anyone I've ever asked that question to, So, well, here's how like you kind of just flow along and take opportunities. But who was there a moment for you where you knew that you know, this is it, this is the thing. I just really enjoyed the issues and stuff that I could relate to personally, and that's important for me. I think I'd be pretty crappy at you know, being out there, you know, selling widgets, um, just because my heart wouldn't be into it. But when you sort of grow up hunting, fishing, you know, conservation of My dad worked for the Conservation Department New York State and uh, it just becomes meaningful to you. So if there was also as I figured out, I actually got a paycheck for doing some of this stuff, It's like I'm in. And then it was a matter of you know, how do I sort of plot out a career path to stay in this and actually make it a living wage? And uh, you know that it took quite a while before I figured that out. Yeah, yeah, you move around, you see his opportunities. You you suffer a little bit along the way, But as long as you sort of keep your eye in the prize, which is staying in this, being more effective, getting more of it personally, then uh, you're good. Yeah. I mean I always say when we have folks like yourself that actually work in the conservation space and actually make a difference, and you guys like me you just kind of talk and go hunting. Do you feel over time? You know, we my my feelings that policies have become more partisan. Our world is prome more divided. You know, I think that's from the outside looking in of DC. That's what I would be my guess is that how you've lived it in your in your conservation space. And absolutely, yeah, So when you know from like the eight to ninety three. I worked in the Senate for Tom dash List, the Democrat from South Dakota, A great guy, still a friend, uh And at that time, you know, it wasn't so much Democrats for Republicans. It was largely regional issues. I mean, it was the farm estates, you know, versus the earth and the states. You know, you know, things like that. So I spent literally as much time working with you Bob Dole's officer, Jim McClure, Republican from Idaho at that time. You know, there are offices is because we were a line on what we wanted for that region of the world. And you know, there were many times where you know, things you know, farm bills of a classic example, don't break down on you know, the party lines. And that stills to a certain degree true. But one of things appeal to me about these issues is that, you know, hunting, fishing, conservation, environmental stuff. You know, these are traditionally the non partisan issues when you think back to Roosevelt was a Republican. Richard Nixon, you know, couldn't have cared less about the environment, but he recognized politically it was a good issue for him. And at the time of you know, Watergate and you know race riots in Vietnam and everything else was bad that was going on in this country, he thought that was a way that could bring the country back together because everyone could agree on that. So that's when e PA was created, in Clean Water Act passed, and the Clean Air Act past. And I think that's short of spirit has always sort of been true even to this day. I mean, Congress has never been more broken than it is right now. But like in the last year, you know, we have gotten i think five major pieces of legislation through at a time when Congress isn't passing anything. Yeah, we actually watch c Span on this podcast when they were passing I mean there was no suspense none. I mean eight in the Senate and you know you have three D plus votes in the House, so I know it's and again that's the way it all to work. I mean, yeah, there are some people who are just anti conservation and they just don't like the stuff. But by and large, it doesn't matter what party you are. I mean, if you like to hunt fish, you know, that's when it brings us together. Yeah, that's it's the resource that that brings us together. Because we're all we're all managing it in one way or the other. Is it's it's super interesting to me and I want to get into because we're talking about before we record, I want to get into kind of what organizations like TRCP do and other similar you know, in comparison to a single species organization like Army A for ducks and limit or whatever. UM. But before we do that, I'd like to line out kind of where you see, in a very simple um, as simple as it can be, the two sides of the conservation issue right now, you know, the right and the left. That's how we characterize these groups and in UM in our parlance when it when it comes just to the the idea of conserving wildlife, conserving wild places, you know, and those and the opportunities to do so, like well, how do you line those up in your professional life? So within arguing and I think this is what you're asking. Yes, you know there is there's a broad diversity, and you have you know, National Wildlife Federation b h A. You know, groups like that to tend to be more on the left side. You have you know, Wild Cheap Foundation, Mule your Foundation, you know others that tend to be further on the right side. Um, that doesn't mean you know, any of them are wrong. I mean, I think that restive opinion is great. I mean, our challenges with sixty different partner organizations is making sure that you know, we don't let you know some of those ideology, you know, ideological you know, sort of stereotypes filter into working together on common issues of common concern. And S. Forty seven the Big Public Lands Bill, as a classic example. I mean pretty much everybody in our community supported that. I mean there were some groups that didn't, but you know, they mostly just sat on the sideline, didn't oppose it. But that one had everything something for everybody had the wilderness areas monuments were congressionly and designated. It had the basically right to hunting fish on public lands unless those lands are specifically closed land water Conservation fund I mean access. Who can disagree with access? So I mean I think that at the end of the day, Yeah, there are different personalities, there are different boards, there are different leanings of those organizations. But you know, it's I think I see it as our job as to try to bring them back together, you know, to work together on things that shouldn't be partisan at all and not let petty personal politics get the way of this stuff. And I think as a community is we're saying before to record again that that we have the power. We have this this legacy constituency that that I would call more right leaning and growing constituency that's either centrist or left or whatever. And if we can bring those ideas and ideologies together, what power we would have across the board politically, socially, culturally, whatever however you line it out. Yeah, man, you know, in theory, you know, forty plus million people in this country hunting fish, and you know that's you know, not a majority of any means, but that's a pretty significant block. And I think what makes us different than you're, you know, a lot of the other folks out there is that we actually get out in the field and we experience this stuff. We see what's happening, and we can speak to experience about the importance of being able to get into the back country or the loss of access close to home or a CWD and want us do into our deer hurts. I mean, those are things we can all see because we're out there experiencing that, you know, not daily, if we're lucky, were daily, but you know, very infrequently my case, and so, but it's I think that gives us an entirely different perspective on these issues. And some of these issues go all the way back to you know, sort of Roosevelt's time, when you know, he and John Murr were sort of debating, you know, conservation versus preservation, and yeah, there are certain areas you want to just lock them up and keep them the way they are now because you know, all we can do is screw them up. And Roosevelt talked about that with the Grand Canyon. There are other areas, you know, Gifford Pin shows his first forest Risk Director, you know, that need to be managed, and I mean we're seeing that a lot of our western forest right now, you know, pine beetle kill, things like that. We just have this you know, monoculture of dead and dying you know, force out there that needs to be managed, and your preservation is not an option you lock that up, it's just gonna blow up and burn someday. So I think that those are you know, sort of another part of the divide in the community is just that sort of historical divide about just you know what people like. Yeah, I mean, there's there's so many through lines. And we were another thing we were discussing while drinking beer before we hit record was it's just just like there's a lot of through lines in history that play out today. You know, when we talk about land transfer versus keeping it public, that's from the moment that we conceived of the group of folks you just mentioned at the turn of the century conceived of that idea. There was pushed back to that idea. We're talking about railroad tycoons and robber barons and people and you know, and at the turn of the century, we're pushing back on the ideas that we needed to preserve these things we needed to and the characters are a little bit different today, but it's the same kind of back and forth, almost identical. I mean, I think that is. Yeah, there are certain entities out their commercial entities that will favor immediate profit over the longest term, you know, sustainability for lack of better term, and Roosevelt fought it with the timber barons. And you know, Tim Egan's book The Big Burn is a great read for anybody to talk about sort of the depth of the hostility back in the nineteen over, the eighteen team, nineteen teens, nineteen oh something's you know, when the first public lands are being create aided and not being established that point there wasn't a strong consistency for it. Today there is. And in the nineties seventies, Bureau Land Management, which is the largest of the federal land managing agencies, went from a philosophy of getting rid of land to retaining land. And I think that relate sort marks the end of the old mentality of getting rid of public lands to embracing it. And you know for all sorts of purposes. Yeah, mining, grazing, those are legitimate interests on public lands, but so our wilderness and hiking and hunting and fishing. Yeah, well, so enter enter TRCP into this conversation. So layout for us kind of what TRCB is and what it does. Um, well, let's I think to do that. I mean, it's gonna go back to a little bit of the you know, the founding myth of the organization, which was this guy Jim Raine, who was Montana guy had a ranch up on the Missouri. You know, it was Howard Baker's chief of staff. When Baker sent a majority leader in the early eighties under Reagan and Jim had been a long time sent a staffer with big and written big chunks of the early environmental laws, and at that time there was really no difference between Republicans and Democrats and environmental stuff. And he begame became excuse me, It became frustrated that he thought that our voice, that collective, sensible center of the sportsmen's community was ginning to be lost. You had the gun community moving further right, you had the environmental community moving further left and getting aligned with different parties. And he thought that, you know, just in the sportsmen community, in his mind, had really just retreated. They were paying attention there a little, you know, duct problems or trout problems are bass problems. Weren't talking with each other, and you know, we're in jeopardy of losing a lot of the headway that we had made over the course of the twentieth century. So he would decide to create an organization that brought all those groups together to speaking a common voice on the big issues stuff that was too big for anyone group, um energy policy, public lands policy. So he did that and then today we've you know, grown to fifty nine normal partner groups. And all we focus on is federal policy. So, like you said, when you have somebody talks about, you know what Ducks and Limited does, it is pretty darn easy. They go in there and they protect or restore wetlands, and they're doing great things for Ducks. Turkey Federation unbelievable bringing back the turkeys. You know, Trial Limited does great job protecting restoring headworstreies. And for us, you know, it's you know, it's a lot less. You know, clear understand that that's that's lazy. I love that stuff and you get dirty you're in it. But you know, all the things that make that possible our federal policy. And you have the North American Wetless Conservation Act that pays for all those wetlands restorations. You have the Farm Bill that pays for pheasants forever to go out and work with landowners to you know, put lands into conservation. And uh, you know those are you know, we have Land and Water Conservation Fund that pays for access and protecting special places around the country. Farm Bill pays for restoring headwater streams. So there's a lot of things that people don't even realize that the federal government does, but are heatally important to It doesn't matter whether you're the Wild Cheap Foundation or you know, Trout Unlimited, and uh, you know that was the thing that you know, we try to work on is all those things that rise rise all boats. So if we're successful in getting better funding for the agencies, that means you know that all the you know, public lands users, including all the conservation groups, are successful. If we pull everyone together and get a good platform, you know, on farm bill years in advance before the new farm Bill, and really you know, try to enforce everyone's stick together and not scatter like a covey of quail when things get tough. You know, then we had rewarded with like we saw last fall, which was a really good farm bill for conservation. Not perfect, but basically we got pretty much everything that we wanted out of that bill in a time that is, you know, it's a tough times here. So I think that you know, we kind of I look at it as we do that sort of the dirty work that people don't really want, the sausage making in Washington that a lot of people don't care about, don't want to be involved with don't even want to about it, but it's really important that the guests done. Yeah, and that's why I really feel that my own understanding, and this the audience of this podcast and the media and incorporated as a whole. Their understanding exactly how you make the sausage, I think is important because I don't think you could give one full example of how you do each piece of legislation or how you influence policy as a whole. But let's let's just take like Land and Water Conservation Fund for an example. UM, that's been in the news. We talked about that a lot in recent months. UM, take us through in this last period of reauthorization, kind of how you guys worked on that piece of legislation and how you feel you were able to affect it and getting reauthorized. Yeah, just in case there was a new listener out there. Yes, Land of Water Conservation Fund. It was a fund that was created in nine five by active Congress and it was a deal. So when they opened up the Outer Continental Shelf to oil and gas development. The deal was that the oil and gas industry pays in nine million dollars annually into a fund that pays for natural resource conservation so you're using a non reliable resource and that pays into protecting renewable resources. And this worked great. The only problem is that it wasn't permanently reauthorized. It had to be reauthorized periodically along the way, most recently this past year, and it wasn't fully funded, so it wasn't guaranteed. Yeah, oil and gas industry has to pay into that fund every single year. Then Congress, whether benignly or accidentally or intentionally, you know, did not make that automatic appropriation. So every year Congress had to decide how much of that nine million were actually gonna use for what what we're supposed to be used for and how much we're gonna divert for other things that we want to play with. And one year, it's been one year and fifty years. So but anyway, in this and and there's as the sort of had this or resentment of public lands with some of the Western members of Congress, and uh, you know, Jason Chaffits and Mike Lee's and Ted Cruzes who you know, there became you know, some there was more con learn over the support for that fun you know existing. I mean, it's the authorization ran out, you know, three years ago and we managed to get a three year extension, and there was still a lot of debate whether you know, we were going to be able to extend that again. And if it doesn't have an authorization, Congress can still kick money into it, but it just makes it harder. And it's one more thing that you know, people who hate the stuff can look at and say, this program isn't even authorized, why are we putting money into it because of an appropriation game. We have the money, but what do we do with it? So what we had to do was, you know, I mean, the environmental community has been on this for a long time, but rightly or wrongly, this program has been perceived as something that's really good for like butterflies and you know, field mice someplace and these sort of you know, big acquisitions of pretty places, and there was sort of the disconnect that most of these places are great hunting of fishing places and have opened up a ton of access for our community. But we were not doing a very good job of making that story be told. So we've produced some reports and we really engaged the sportsman's community and a lot of our partners to weigh in as not just a detecting special places program, but a fundamental program of access because you know, we did that report last year with on X that documented nine and a half million acres out there public lands public can access, and this is one of those key tools we want to get access to those use it. You don't have to buy a hundred thousand acres. You can buy you know, fifty acres someplace that allows you to get an access to that national forest. But that funds that's coming from Land and Order Conservation Fund. So it's uh, I think is we were just part of a broader chorus of groups saying this made a ton of sense. I think another thing that really helped on that one was engaging the outdoor recreation industry and really making the case that this is about jobs too. You know, the outdoor recreation industry at eight eighty seven billion dollar year industry, which puts it, you know, second or third overall in the categories of this economy's two point two percent of g g DP. Me it's a big deal. But you know everyone looks as as are you guys just that's you're the fun industry. You know, that's not really serious jobs. But it is serious jobs and so we can make that case that not only doing the right thing for you know, wildlife and for access, you're doing the right thing for your local economy. And I think all those things came together. We had overwhelming support by the end of the day, and uh, it was a good success story. And so you're in your position as president CEO, you're burning the phone lines down, calling, calling other organizations, calling sometimes association like how are you. Yeah, there's a certain amount of that. I mean, you're making some last minute calls because you hear that so and so and and again. In Congress there's always a ton of horse trading. I mean, okay, fine, I'll support your LWCFF. You support my stupid ass project over here. And I think of a good acronym, you're stupid as right. So the yeah, I mean there's a certain amount of you know, just sort of solidifying you know, folks on in various offices. This is a good thing. But you know, by the time that thing was going down, you know, the heavy work had been done, and so there was not a ton of last minute movement, and there was some. But then we have a really good staff. You know, Steve Klins are coming to as director, and you know Andrew Wilkins or you know what, he is the house stuff for us, and Christy Plumber overseas, all that stuff. They were working a lot harder than I was. I guarantee that. And so let's let's hopefully everybody and we had Steve Klein on we were when we were live streaming, live streaming c span for probably the first and last time. Hey, maybe we'll see you never know, c spanking didn't get interesting again? Probably not. Um, So let's let's move away from that and then and talk about the farm bills specifically, because I think, as we were talking before, our company, Media and Corporate is based in Bozeman. Well, you're sitting a long way from Bozeman. Um, there's some confirmation bias I feel built into the Western aesthetic, build into the Western mindset, the aspirational mindset of go West, go hunting. Oh, you live in Texas, but you better go to Colorado and to chase Elk. So same thing with you. You live in Iowa, there's a lot of white tails, but if you really want to experience hunting, you gotta go to Montana and and Chase Meal Dere or whatever the case. There is I believe some confirmation bias around things like land or conservation because because you start to talk about access, it's not as simple as the just one word. But that's how it kind of shakes out in my mind. So let's talk about the farm Bill specifically, how you guys work on it, and then you know how you're able to improve it for for both the environment but then also for hunters anglers. So a little bit of background. The farm Bill is created back in the you know, the conservation you know, it's essentially a program that all the conservation stuff is created back in the eighties during the farm crisis, and they needed a way to pay farmers not to farm, and so they thought up, boy, let's let's pay them to you know, do conservation but just not farming. And uh, you know, it turned out to be really popular. Things like the conservation reserve program not only popular because it gave you know, farmers a paycheck when things are really tough, but also discovered that these places like grow peasant and white tails and like like crazy, and so a whole different constituency is sort of built up around those. But you know, that's just one program of many in the Farm Bill. So the Farm Bill is you know, five billion dollars, you know, anyway, which is you know, it's the largest conservation program in this country. You know, two thirds of the country or seven percent of the country is in private hands, and about half of that is in you know, either a farm or farm or forestry. And you know, so it is a huge swath of this country. And as honestly as we're you know, not necessarily in the west, but here in the east. You know, those are the lands of folks hunt on and they fish on. And if they don't fish on them, they benefit from the fact there are shelter belts there that produce clean water to go into the streams they do fish on. So and it's a very different program than a lot of others, you know what you think of a lot of the programs that Congress passes environment involving the environment, as things like the Clean Water Act the Clean Air Act, which are prohibitive. It tells you what you cannot do. You can't dump this crap into the stream, you can't spew this out of a smokestack. The Farm Bill is almost completely voluntary, so it's like I don't have to do this, but if you want to do this, we've got pretty good money for you to enroll in this program and help you do it. And we have a whole agency and RCS Natural Resource Conservation Service that is set up there to help you. And then groups like you know, Duxi, Limit Infestis Forever are also out there to go and help you, you know, get into these programs and have them be successful and have you out of good experience as a landowner. And so it's something that has really built on that initial you know vision of just trying to pay farmers not to produce to something that's way more important than that. So we come in every again, a guess reauthorized every five years, and it is a you know, sort of weird coalition of urban and rural that come together to pass it because food stamps are also included in the farm bill. And uh that was intentional because I think both the urban interests as well as rural interests figured they could not do this by themselves. They had to create that alliance. And so you have the you know, the food stamp program, which is the sumplemental nutrition program. You know that is you know, sort of guaranteed markets for far mers that certainly one supplies the other exactly, and but politically it means that you have this sort of weird, you know, urban center supporting the farm bill and this very rural center and that's why we've always passed him, and that's why they've always been bipartisan. But that that that speaks to like how our politics actually go. I mean, I've lived in the states like Illinois, where you live in Champagne or Peoria, all the all the political power sits in Chicago. So this may be an example where those two things can actually work. Togain absolutely everyone wins in this one. So so what we did was but there are a lot of competing interests in the farm bill. I mean obviously there's you know, the conservation title is just one title of you know, a bunch of different things. And uh, you know, our challenge had always been to you know, state united. So literally, you know, two plus years as we approached the two thousand eighteen you know, elapse of the farm Bill, Yeah, we pulled everybody together and basically got everybody and put out a white paper as to what our collective communities were for the farm bill. And then you know, we created a working group called the Agriculture and Wildlife Working Group, which probably has thirty different groups in it. You know, the usual suspects, the ducts and limited Devices, Forever Turkey Federation, but you know some of the you know, American Sport Fishing Association, Trout Limited because you know, all of those guys have a stake and well managed public and private lands. And then the challenge for us is, you know, take those broad ideas what we wanted, and then you know, stick with them as we got into nutcutting time, you know, for the Farm Bill, as it was coming to the end, and you know, and and part of it was, you know, for example, on the House side, you know Mike Conaway, who at that time was the chair of the House a Committee. You know, he put together a proposal that you know, cutting a big chunk of money out of the Farm Bill, and it has some important reforms and there are things to like about it, but in the bottom line, it was it took a bunch of money away from it. And you know, but by the end of the process, you know, we honored him. That are a big event a couple of weeks ago, you know, because he sort of changed tune mid course and realized that, you know, we could do more and we could have reforms of these programs, and now he's a huge champion of it. So part of our job is to you know, not destroy these people when they put out a bad proposal, but to just you know, work with them and see if we can't make it better, and you help them have it be their idea. At the end of the day. This seems idealistic. I love it. It worked. It worked. I love it. I need people need I need I know, I personally need examples like that. I need to hear that. I need to hear that articulated in a way that like we've we have very contentious issue, it's wide ranging, but we were able to have to win in this way, and I think it's important. No too, It wasn't just the fact that you have a bunch of lobbyists going there and talking to him. It was the fact that you know, these groups have members, and those members are in these members districts, and so when you know Howard Vincent Pheasants forever mobilizes their guys on behalf of the RP, it is really important. You know, same thing with the duxilemented guys in the wetlands programs, the easement programs, and you know, so it really goes to the point where you don't like federal policy, that's fine. But if you get you liked phasants forever and you've got a note from them saying okay, it's time to engage, listen to them and engage. Yeah, and that's that goes to you know, one of the points and wanted to talk to you is to be able to better to find how that works. You know, we have a lot we were talking before, We have a lot of people that give money these organizations. It's easy to celebrate the bigger ideas, right, so he's just to celebrate access and habits at but understanding exactly where not only where your money goes, well where your efforts go. You know, like you said, single issue organization is kind of easy. Oh, more nesting grounds, more ducks, healthier populations, those types of things. But understanding that the inner workings I think is important. Yeah. You know, so we're we have some lobbyists on staff. I think we have three registered lobbyists, which is actually not a ton um. So, but all we work on is, you know, federal policy. So you sort of ask girl, how can you do all that without lobbyists. So the majority of our staff are actually out in the field, So we have guys in all the Rocky mountains stay it is pretty much you know, in the Gulf Coast, you know, Northeast. And what they're really doing is they're organizing. So when they see something like a you know, threat to public lands, you know, they're going and mobilizing local businesses, local rod and gun clubs, you know, chapters of national organizations that may not be being attention to this stuff and getting them to weigh in on these federal issues. And you know, so it's you know, it's pretty diffuse, but it's all focused on a single goal, which is you know, better policy and both you know, it's the focus on Congress and you know, passing good stuff and preventing bad stuff. But just as importantly are the agencies that are then in charge of, you know, implementing the stuff on the ground. So over the next few years we'll have a big push to make sure that the programs in the Farm Bill are properly implemented. And that is you know, really unglamorous work and it's not something that we can do being in the field. But we can get because we have this broad network of partners, you know, the turkeys, the pheasants, the ducks, you know, name them. You know, we will get reports from them just saying we got a real problem without you know, the fact we haven't had a CRP sign up yet. And so then we'll mobilize our forces inside DC to start putting pressure on us d A to you know, do a sign up. I mean, that's just one example. But it doesn't work without the partner groups, and it doesn't work without the power in DC. You know, he's sort of how to you know, pull those levers. Yeah, I mean these things are far reaching. I mean, talking about the farm bill, the way people farm on the Mississippi River affects coastal regions in Florida. It affects the dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico. I mean it is you know, so when you talk about the Everglades and some of the issues going down there, like, to me, these connection points are important, right, this is my region, This is happening to me, but it's it's being affected long long ways away. So can you talk kind of about how managing the farm bill and getting people to do it right is better, you know, for the whole ecosystem or or several ecosystems. Yeah, the you know, the the impacts are you know, pretty I mean you mentioned a classic one, which is, you know, you know, the fact of what as farmer does with his you know, a few tiles a field in South Dakota. You know that no longer is sucking in that you know, dirty water and cleaning it up for I guess released in the tributary that then has been channelized to that dumps into the Mississippi River that then, you know, feeds all that you know, the crap goes downstream, you know, creates that dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico. It also, you know, sort of exasperates the flooding because nature has a way through wetlands of slowing that water down when it comes down heavy. So like we're seeing right now and that MSIs River drainage is largely a result of the fact that we have done a really poor job and protecting you know, those natural buffers along that river that should be you know, capturing that water and cleaning it and releasing it slowly over time. Instead we've tiled it. So it's going straight into the big River and it is blasting down there. So we got a big rain, that's what we're seeing. And I think that you people have to understand that. You know, programs like a farm bill, Yeah, they're going to be applied at one farm at a time, but collectively they make a huge difference whether you're a red fish fisherman, the gull our pheasant hunters South Dakota. Yeah, if Everglades, you know, look at those issues that's in our farm bill issue. But you know what happening further upstream in Florida is impacting the quality Everglades is impacting you know, a title blooms in the east and west coast of Florida. So I mean this stuff all runs downstream, and uh, you know, a little simple solutions local they help, but they're not the whole solution. There's got be a whole bunch of those little solutions. Yeah, And it's it's a nice dichotomy. And for we have a little a secret project that meta right now that we're working on that will release here um over the summer. That kind of goes to this, like, Okay, you're back sixty year, your back forty might feel insular to you and may feel as though like you're just raising big bucks, or you want more pheasants, or you want more of the immediacy of even if you're thinking about bio diversity just for your own purposes of hunting, every person who wants the American dream to have that back forty can make a difference on on that singular level. And then there's folks like you and t R c P who are making sure the broad swath of legislations in place to allow that to happen. I mean, that's the motto, you know, act locally, think globally man and it really, you know, it was you know, perfectly attuned to this stuff because you know, you can't do one without the other. Yeah, and so yeah, over this this super top secret project, now that I'm sure everybody is now very interested in that I made a top secret, we've been able to see that working with you know, having a piece of land, working with it, understanding what the options are for a new landowner, and how it can can contribute to pollinators and how contributed to the biodiversity of the landscape, and and how you can work with a co op of people around you, your neighbors and your neighboring landowners to to truly make a difference. I think there's for everyone listening who thinks this might this might be a little bit above above their pay grade, it's really not. If you, if you have a dream to own land, or you currently own land, you can make a difference, and you can do it through the Farm Bill and through c RP and other programs. Yeah, and they're you know, these are the centers are real. And you know, if you're the clever farmers out there, you know, sort of piggyback a bunch of them. You know. For example, there's another program in the Farm Bill, you know, the Voluntary Public Access Habitat Improvement Program, which pays landers open pays landowners open that land up to republic hunting and fishing. So you you may already have you know, you know, you know for land and c RP here you know, some sort of easeman on another section in your land. Now you have that on it too. All of a sudden, you're getting some pretty decent money for doing what's really right for the environment. And and you and me, oh, there's a lot of there's a lot of private landers that they buy land with the opportunity to know I can get this if I do these three programs, it basically pays for the property. I have to abide by these guidelines over my course of time. I own it is peace. But if I'm buying it for recreational purposes, these federal programs will basically pay pay its way and I'll get to go hunting. All I have to do is help manage the land, right you know, I think that's that's a big deal. Um. So I think speaking of that, I wanna I worry about issue fatigue with c w D. I worry that people are that that we're pointing the finger at this boogeyman and and continually talking about it in these conceptual ways. Um. I think everyone knows chronic waste disease. It's an issue in the Western States. It's the Eastern States. I grew up. I mean, I grew up in western Maryland. We had CBD like eight years ago and Green Ridge, um Stay Forest where I hunted, and they shut it. I think they shut deer hunting down for at least a year or two before when they could get testing. So it's it's been around. It's it's more prevalent now I think than ever it's increasingly so UM. So we won't bang that bang that drump too much. But from a policy level, where are we, So we're making a headway, I think. So We've got I think four different bills in Congress right now that would increase money for UM research. And that includes you know, the CDC work on the prions and you know, susceptibility of humans when things like that, but it's also just sort of know how is it spread? And then that research goes into things like can there be a live test develop for the captive industry that can tell them if an animal is sick or not so they don't have to you know, sort of kill them before they figure it out, which eventually will lead to a decent dead tests. So if you and I killed, you know, deer of someplace, we can either take it a local check station or even do it ourselves. Ideally you know really quickly whether those deer is diseased or not. So that's the research side of it. But that's all that's all based all that most of if not all that legislation based on funding or federal based fundings, all money, and then the other part of the money is that APHIS, which is the ahole Agriculture Health. I'm kind of butcher the acronym, but basically a department within the section of the Department of Agriculture that funds and stuff, and the old days they would fund just when this first popped up, there about fifteen million dollars twelve and fifteen we'll go out to the states to pay for testing and surveillance those states, so they knew if they would have it or not. You know, since you know, it's then that money died away and so that doesn't doesn't exist anymore. So we need to do is get that money back in another fifteen million and where we think we're gonna be able to do that this year. That will then go back to the states because right now those states don't have any money dedicated for doing this stuff. They're taking our license dollars, you know, or they're pitt and Robertson dollars that really should be going to have that restoration, you know, poaching management, you know, things like that, and they're having to do this because it's such a threat. So by giving them that extra money, then you know, at least will be able to document where they have a problem. In the states that really want to do a good job, you will have the resource to go do it. I mean, look at Illinois, which has you know, done a really good job of managing it, so it's less than one percent problems in the state and it's you know, and hunter has been a part of that. I mean, they've whacked populations hard in places where it was and that's what you need to do. Um but you know, Illinois is still a great place to hunt, and you know, the problems is so low that people don't really need to worry about it there. Look up at Wisconsin, where they basically botched their response. You know, Doug During can talk about more like this. Doug During is like throwing fire bombs. It's it's over problems. Send a bunch of counties up there, and they basically have so botched it that you know, I don't know what they're gonna do long term, but we need to get that sort of recognition out among all the various states, you know, and give them the resource to deal with it. So that and listen, we're part of the problem to the hunters. I mean, the state says we need to hit a deer or herd hard. We have to hit it hard. I mean, believe the biologists. They're not a bunch of quacks. This is not a plot by the insurance company. So don't take the bones and run them over to the next state. No, No, I mean, you know, do us right, and we can be a part of the solution here. If you you hit me, kill a buck out in Wisconsin, don't throw in the back of your pickup truck and drive it back to Virginia, okay, because that's how we're spreading the disease to I mean, obviously, the captive side is a real issue here, you know, moving around these live animals all the time, and that has to be taken. You know. I'd be very much in favor of a straight up moratorium on any interstate movement of live deer, and I think Congress want to do that. I don't know they're quite there yet, but I think that has to happen. We were inching closer to it though, aren't weally hope so, I mean, I think I think if there was a time, or if you would have said that some years ago, the people to strike it down. Look at the industry, like the profit look at the look at its cultural significance, kind of like in Texas. But now I just think because of our CDPD is it's forcing people to think, well, if I had to give this part of it up, you know, I'm sure if you talk to some folks in the breeders associations for for deer, they would not agree. But if we have to give this part of it up to help eliminate the spread a CPD, we we should and write should do it now? Well, and I think that, yeah, I don't think the breeders are ever going to be our side on this one because they have to make a lot of money with some jackasses want to pay twenty five bucks to kill a deer in a pen. But it's going to be the incentive to do the wrong thing. It's less them, it's more like Texas trophy hunters and or is it just like that where you can come and say, look, here's the science, here's the data. And I think that the you know, my I have a lot less concerned with these sort of profitable operations. You know. The bigger guys, you know, yeah, they have the money to do it right. They can do the double fencing, they can do the proper testing, you know, and we're talking right now, we're talking about in basically more terman interstate movement, and a lot of states prohibit the movement alive, dear in and out already, which I think all of them ought to do. So, I mean, listen, if Texas want to keep moving deer around internally, and that's their issue, I think actually they have probably a better control on it than a lot of states too. But in general, we can't let it have happened. Is this sort of the tail wag the dog, which is you know, these sort of barely capitalized marginal producers, they're cutting the corners, they're moving deer all around. You know, those are the guys that are opposed the real threat to our industry. Yeah. Ellen, As this threat grows, so does the advocacy for the response. Right. It's weird that we had I had the guys from Sports and Alliance on. They said, you know, as a as a as an industry or a community, we don't wait till the wolves at our door. We wait till it's in the bed with us. We wait till it's already it's already on. It is too late in some cases, the infectious is ease like this one. Yeah, exactly what we and we don't know where it's going to go, and I just think we have to be aggressive and tackling it, and the FEDS certainly have a role in terms of funding. What we also need to do is look at you know, the U. S Department BA Agriculture has a herd certification program that it certifies C two b D free herds half the unfit new infections. This past year we're in C two b D free hurts. I mean, it's a freaking joke. So we're trying to do is get the General Counting Office to actually go out or National Academy of Science go out and do a study of that herd certification program, which how that you possibly you know, I mean, the problem is that the current test, the current live test, can only tell you if an animal does have it. It can't tell you if it doesn't have it, because it may not have you know, established enough in the body of the animal to give you a true reading. So you know, it's just we don't have the science to do that, right. And the notion that we're certifying any herd as C t b D free, right, now is pretty ridiculous. Yeah, yeah, it's it's a chuckle like it's like, oh, we're good here, let's move on here, let's move on, guys. Um, well, let's as we're tackling these tougher subjects, let's move on to climate change. I feel like it's it's very similar to c w D in a a broad sense. It's like, as this becomes a bigger problem, as we see real tangible differences in wildlife habitat and wildlife populations and our resource being affected by what we can deduce to be climate changes, I think, and we were talking about this a little bit earlier, I think that everyone's a little more comfortable now talking about one talking about the issue but then acting on the issue. Um, so set us up from from your perspective where you sit, where climate change is, and kind of our ability to act on some of the things we're seeing. Well, I think that you know, our community tends to be on the front lines of seeing it. Yeah. So we see later duck migrations, we see moving out of the mountains. Later, we see you know, moose being eaten alive by checks because it's not getting cold enough anymore. Killed the ticks. Um. You know, there are a whole bunch of different examples. We see the allegible algal blooms in a lot of places. Um. So I think it's not a question of you know, isn't happening. It's happening. And I think that our community can speak, you know, in a voice that's very unique on this whole issue that we're out there, we're seeing it. Yeah, we're gonna drive cars and we're gonna heed our houses, but we gotta do something about this. And I think that if you look at solutions our community, you know, the hunting fishing community was very involved during the two thousand's r CP, you know, pulled together our various partners, ducks, pheasants, trout bass, and produced a couple of books called Season's End then Beyond Season's End that talked about, you know, what was impacts of climate change on hunting and fishing and then possible solutions and uh in around two thousand ten, you know, basically after the whole you know, cap and trade issue failed, in this issue really became you know, part of polarized in partisan. You know, a lot of our community just retreated from the issue, just didn't want to talk about it. They didn't want their boards didn't want them to talk about it, and so I think our community was unfortunately silent for many years, and I started I think they're starting to see a change in that more folks are talking about it. Um. I mean, the impacts are undeniable, and the longer we do nothing, the worst is going to get. But I also think that a lot of solutions are things that are really actually very good for our community. And we talked about before. If you do like active management on those diseased forest areas, you know, that is really important because those are going to blow up and just burn at some point. And if we can get rid of that wood and use it to something productive and replant and recreate those forests, I mean, that's great wildlife habitat, jobs for local communities, and it helps to the climate situation and what a beautiful like you know. And I do want to talk about kind of the Atlantic Flyway and so that because I'm from here, you live here, like this is something I care about. I know a lot of people on Maryland's eastern shore that are would call me up be like, hey, you know you have a voice, Why don't you talk about this, UM, what's really going on? And the beauty of this is there's an intersection of industry and environment right where even in our communities, like the waterfowl outfitting industry certainly cares about the number of ducks that are coming down their way, UM and what produces those ducks, while a healthy environment, healthy ecosystems, UM climates that are stable. And so let's can you talk a little bit. We'll we'll we'll frame it up with the Atlantic Flyway kind of talk through kind of how that, how that's been circulated. Yeah, and there again, there are people that know this issue a lot better than I do too, But I think I think you're so one you're saying, you know, that's the timing of migrations is much different than it has been historically, UM, which you know throws havoc into seasons and you know, even just you and me making hunting plans because you don't even know if the ducks are going to be there or the geese are going to be there at that time. Second, we've seen you know, a lot more difficulties and breeding up and especially the northern areas from there, prairie pottles that doesn't affect the Atlantic flyaway, but you know northern Canada and you know that is a direct relation. And that's just the climate is changing dramatically up there, and it's gonna become a lot more volatile, and you know, reproductive success is going to be a lot more reliable than it used to be. And so it's not the end of the world, but it's a clear warning sign that something bad is happening. And you would just you know, Maryland is down to you know, like one goose a day, and you know, which is just unthinkable a few years ago. I've I've got some like s os text messages and phone calls, voicemails from people that I know on the shore like do you understand like well, you know, oh you guys a meeting or doing the the pine beetle articles this Come over here and talk about this right now, because this is a real serious issue. It's a huge issue. And you know, the economy on the Eastern Shore is actually built up around warterfoll hunt. This is and uh festivals about what pole festivals you go to Havard of Grace, all the decoy making and the waterfowl festivals, and it's it's awesome and it's a great tradition and you know that is very much at risk right now. And so again, I just think this is an issue that we can't just sit on our hands and listen. It's not just one thing. Yes, development, it's you know, sure as climate, but it's a whole bunch of other issues as well. But you know, let's you know, let's take a holistic approach and do what we can and all of them. Yeah. Yeah, Like I said, I tend to think more broadly than than most folks, and I do. I really enjoy being able to discuss an issue where it does kind of the two ideologies kind of cross right, where where we can say that if you farm better, you're going to get a better environment. If you get a better environment, you get more game. So no matter what you're thinking in regards to your political leanings or your ideologies, this all comes together in a nice package. Same here, if if you take care of the environment and you live in the Eastern Shore and you love to hunt ducks, you will get a result. And again, I mean, you know, I agriculture has a huge role in here in terms of carbon sequestration, and uh, I think we have proven over time there are firm as are really clever, and you get them a sentuce to do the right thing, they're going to figure out how to do it as a community. They're the best at that, absolutely, I mean, the best of that. And you know, so let's say, okay, let's say goal a major goal of the you know, next farm bill ought to be, you know, carbon sequestration. How do we do that more? Then you know, let's give them a sentuce to do that stuff. And by the way, it's gonna be great for fishing wildlife too, and uh, you know, let's let's push on that. And that's not something scariest, not shutting down the American economy. No, And I think that all the dogmas, all the political dogmas, the things that are trotted out by both sides to kind of scare their constituencies into remaining in their corners, start to kind of be lessened by these conversations, Like you start saying, hey, I understand that you think that it's all about jobs in the economy, but this does that, all right, this can do that if we do it right, right, I think, if we create this, I mean, you know, America is a fundamentally optimistic nation. That's right, and uh, let's put let's use this as a challenge and figure out how we're going to address it, and you know, perucial holders into it and do it. And I think that our community, because we're not you know, sterie a type left or right, has a real opportunity to play a leading role in this. What's I'm gonna ask you a real tough question. Now, all the people. If I'm if I'm a regular guy here's listening to this, maybe I'm a member of b h A, I'm I'm I'm involved with the RCP at some level. I'm interested in these topics. What when it comes to climbs you, what the hell can I do well? I mean, you know, first of all, you know, I think that we have to show tell you what it is you can do. I mean, that's been part of the problem is that there is no concrete action in terms of federal policy right now because Congress has been so broken in this particular issue. Now that may be starting to change a little bit, but also read up and figure out there are a lot of things. You know, obviously, you can do things locally, and you can you know, support local initiatives that are you know, along these same lines. But I think that in terms of overall policy stuff, you know, just start saying that this is real, let's start doing something about it, because you know, honestly, are members of Congress have not been hearing that enough. They've been hearing it from you know, New York City and San Francisco folks, but they have not been hearing it from folks in the heartland. And I think that is, you know, where the real role that you know, it doesn't matter how wealthy you are. I mean, just say that, hey, this is I'm seeing changes, and you guys want to get off your asks and do something about this. I'm always I'm sure you can speak to this very well. I'm always shocked when you talk to congressman about how much they're not They don't read every letter, but they get ports on every everything that you say. Like if if you're in Minnesota and you're seeing less moose and you're worried about this and you understand, you know exactly what you say, forty forty two thicks. It was like nest out I saw was forty seven thousand ticks on individual you know moose that they're finding that are severely unbelievable, and and that's driven by climate change. These ticks are allowed to survive longer. Just stay longer because it's it's warmer. Um. If you're if you're a guy who traditionally hunted moose in Minnesota and this is happening, you can write into your Congress and say, hey, look I'm not I'm not in Minneapolis, I'm not in Chica. Go, but I'm here and i'm seeing it just as you would as you would think, like a smart wildlife biologist or a wildlife scientists would gather the data, gather the science, make hypothesis, but also speak to the person on the ground that's involved with the resource. You know, speak to your working on salmon, speak to the salmon fisherman that's there every day. Right. So I think then when you're when your buddy at the bar says that's all a hoax, and say, you know what, it's not a hoax, not a hoax. I'm seeing and I'm yeah, And yeah, we can disagree on how you go about it or whether we have to do something about at all. Yeah, but let's not pretend it's not happening. And it's a powerful combination. You can say, well, here's three reports that's have all the science and day that's say it's happening. But I have been around the resource every day. I'm telling you it's being affected by this. Combine that with the data and then it's a sound argument. When the farming community has been seeing that too, I mean, yeah, they're the ones that are out in the fields every day. They're seeing how the climate has been changing. Yeah, and I just you know, I would love it if they also got more vocal on this whole thing. Yeah. Um, well that's a good answer for that tough rush, and I think it hopefully everyone can, you know, take your guard down on this issue. I don't have my like I don't. I've never come at this with one idea or the other. I feel like I want health. Like somebody asked me, what, hey, Ben, what's your function as a hunter? And and less I don't do much angling, but if it as a hunter, what's your function? Like, Well, there's a lot of functions. But if if I were just to pick one and name and I would say that be you know, a champion in a steward of healthy ecosystems, like yea, probably more locally than than nationally. And so if somebody were to ask me that question, that's would be my answer. And as a function of that, I gotta I gotta be involved in these issues. I don't have to. I'm not chasing one ideology. I'm not trying to make it real or fake. I'm just looking at the evidence pragmatically and saying, hey, this is why I can make a difference. I feel totally agree. And I mean you you may not, like you know, AOC and the Green New Deal and you know, things like that, but I mean, I mean, listen, I applaud her for actually sort of renovating this whole conversation and create a sense of urgency you know about that and becoming with a big, audacious idea. Now I have no idea what Green New Deal is. I don't I don't know whether it includes you know, just you know sort of you know, technology and climate change or as Medicare for all or as you know, guaranteed tuition or college. And but at the same time, you know, I I love that audacious, you know, big thinking that you know, this is something we need to get our arms around. And we may disagree on the particulars, but I totally agree that, you know, we ought to be a part of that conversation. That's right. And then we're saying even before we start, it's like you can with something like the Green New Deal or any conceptual large piece of legislation, which I think is why S forty seven made me feel so warm and fuzzy because it was such a swat like there was some some stuff in there I didn't like, but but for piece of legislation that broad boy, it was damn good. Um. But you know, things like You're New Deal, they're so it's so varied in the subject matter, you're gonna find something you don't like in there. Yeah. And and generally the way you know, Congress works in the way as forty seven worked, as the really bad ideas on either end of the spectrum get jettisoned. Yeah, so you you whatever comes before the Congress is that that pretty much everybody could agree on. And and that's the way honestly at auto work. That's right, And you know the folks are in that on either side. You know, they got some work to do to make those you know, ideas more mainstream. Yeah, that's true. Well, we got. We gotta close out. I feel like we did great on climate change. We convinced everybody. Uh, we've gotta close out with a couple of segments. The first one is first time I'm gonna try this segment. I think you're perfectly set up to do it. And it's it's brought brought to us by Federal Premium ammunition. We certainly love their ammunition. I've been harping on killing a lot of turkeys with their TSS ammunition. Fact, I've killed four. If I had some time, I'd go. I'd go back home and try to kill one in Maryland if I could with that TSS. But what thanks Federal Premium. And this this segment is called proved me wrong, And it's where I'm gonna say something outlandish and you're gonna just prove me wrong. I'm gonna set you up for an easy one here. Um, it's the the West has better hunting and fishing opportunities than the East. Prove me wrong. I can be in my car here in Washington, d C. And be deer hunting and forty five minutes and you know the limited Virginia is to a day you don't need to have a special tags anything like that. I can go two hours out the Eastern Shore and assuming there are any geese and ducks there have the best waterfowl hunting in the world. And uh, you know, so I would just say that, Yeah, it's really cool to be out in those big open spaces out there. But in terms of the bio diversity around here, the number of animals unbelievable. I'm right. I don't want to be on your side because it proved to be wrong, but I agree with you. No. I think the funny thing about like we were talking about the glut of wildlife resources in the West, but when I moved from Maryland and moved around and found my way to Montana, and boy do I really regret what I didn't take advantage of as a kid in this in this area of the world. I mean part of what I was so cool about this country. It's just such diverse opportunities, and you know, no one is better than another, that's just they're so different that it's what makes it great. Yeah, that's why Steve Ornella is coming back here to seek hunt on the Eastern Shore. If you don't even like, if you don't, I've hunted. I'm gonna ask you here in a minute for some real specific information. But I've hunted, uh certain refuge for sika deer on on the Eastern shore a bunch of times, not a bunch of enough times to know. And like I move away and I think, oh my God, like ducks, geese, turkeys, white tails, squirrels, rabbits, I mean, cotton tails everywhere running around. Then you get into then oh, I guess there's a sika deer over there that I can go kill. In fact, it's delicious. It lives in the swamps. It roars. Give me a break. This is a fantastic like to live. There's no tornadoes here, there's no hurricanes, winners. It's a little human, a little cold, but boy, I love living here. You can be you where I grew up. You can you can be in the mountains, you know, the Appalachia. You can be to the you know, to the bay. You can be pretty much anywhere you want to be in Fish. So I did a terrible job of of being on the other side of that sucked. So I proved myself wrong that one the other the other segment, Um, this is my favorite segment. We'll see how this one goes with you. This brought to you by Yeddie. Thanks Eddie for doing all that you do for outdoors. And of course the Yetti Go Box is brand new. That's where you put all your stuff. You seal it up. It's water tight's airtight. I actually put the go box in my truck and I put all my medical gear and stuff in there, and I felt real fancy about it. My wife picked it up, was like, I need one of these. I was like, what for. She's like, don't worry about it. So that's the Yeddy Go Box. Picked that up Yeddie dot Com. This segment is called Hotspot Cool Dude. And this is where this is a segment where I asked you to give me a specific hunting location that for the public. You give away one of your hottest hunting spots or some of my or fishing spots in your case, maybe a fly fishing spot where you like to go. This is like a real democratic way to give out you're hunting and fishing spots to everybody that listens to this program. Now you can refuse people I'll do. I'll start with the fishing, which is right here in Washington d c and uh, you know, we have this unbelievable resources of the Potomac River and you'll have hit in the springtime, you know that March April May, you know you'll have herring, shad, three different species of shad, stripe, bass, variety of perch species coming up there. It is literally, if you hit it right, it is a fish every cast and twenty five bucks to run a little roboat at Fletcher's Boat House. Go out there a rock anchor, drop down and just catch fish as long as you want. You might catch every now and then you get snake. Apparently we're quite delicious. And then I think the d C out of state licenses twelve dollars. So this is you real blue collar, you know. But you know you'll find your senators out there doing it, and you know Latina houseworkers. It all speakin of English and it's just awesome. So that is a very good public fishing spot. In terms of hunting, I'm gonna give you one that is renowned to be a lousy hunting spot, and so that is you, you know, the outon Ducks, which is where I grew up hunting. Big mature was having cut since the eighteen eighties low deer densities, but the majority of I think boonde and Crockett bucks up there dive old age. So if you're willing to get out there and get up into the country, you can get some really nice giant squirrel or two hopping around. Well that's possible. I don't see those very often. No, you don't know, but no, that's uh. I mean, and it's incredibly beautiful and it's remote, and it's because it's so hard to hunt that is, you know, it gets very limited pressure. It is. I mean people think of depending on where you're out in the world. You think of New York, you don't think of those wild places, but boy they are are. It's a New York is a big state and there's a lot of wild places. Add six million acres. Yeah, so that's a big chunk of ground about you know a little bit more than half of that is you know, public land. Yeah, and so anywhere you can just you know, get that public land, go in do it. You got any specific spot you want to give people Becau's what this is all about. Like where exactly did they go Adirondack Mountains that state six million acres? See there there's a smart hot spot. That's a smart hotspot giver right there. That's a man who knows how to play politics. He's like, how gonna give you a hot spot? Six million acres? Six million? You'll find something that got ronics you can sell, figure where to go, you know, even folks on our mediator crew. I I was headed to South Dakota to hunt turks into Black Hills and I was going through the Custer National Forest, and I know that our own Janice Ptelis has had a lot of success killing turkeys there. So I texted my friend Janni the the lot of an Eagle. I text him, I say, hey, do you got any like pins? You can drop me in the Custer National Forest? So, well, what's he doing? He said, Well, anything between Ashton and Raddest is great. That's the whole goddamn National Forest. Even my good friend, the honest but tell Us wouldn't give me a hot spot. It's terrible, terrible, we treat each other terrible hunting space. Well, Wit, I really appreciate you have me in your home one. But also these conversations. I know these are tough issues, but tough issues that you traffic in every single day of your life. But I love the fact you guys are actually interested in this stuff. I'm super interested. And then I'll tell you that my dad listens to the podcast. He says he listened every episode. I'll have to test him at some point, but but he's told me the past. This brings great pride to me personally that like generationally, he's proud that that my generation or folks that are of my you know, in the mid thirties or younger, are care about this stuff. And I truly do. I think it's the backbone of what makes my life full outside of my family. Like it really it really does. Well. I had total great personal level. Yeah, that's true. But I think it's a country. This is what makes you know, this country great. And the rose all had that vision, you know, hundred and forty years ago, and the public lands bailable for anybody, hunting and fishing for everybody, not just the the rich folks, landed gentry. And I think it's you know, he saw it as part of the you know, the culture and the outdoor spirit that was America. And I think that's true today. Yeah, And if you have it, if you live with it every day and you have the opportunity to outside on fish and you love it, and it's it's part of your life. If if it was taken away from you, boy, you would you would you would understand what you've lost. Um, So I incourad. I always courage people. Just understand what you have. You know, we we do a really good job of that with our gun rights, and I support that wholeheartedly and I'm all for that. But I think we can think about our passions around the outdoors in the same way. We don't want to lose them. Totally agree. All right, Thanks what, thank you? That's it. That's all another episode of the podcast of the books. Thank you Wit, thank you Tracy, thank you Katie, thank you Maggie. Thanks to everybody for listening, having fun with us, and getting serious with us, all in the same podcast. I like to think that's what this show is all about, man, not taking ourselves too seriously, but knowing when we gotta get down to it. Quite a balance. But I think high fashion and high conservation may illustrate that better than anything else. So thanks and I hope everyone enjoys this one. So Hey, th HD at the met eater dot com is our email. I want you, guys, to keep sending in your audio clips of you reviewing the podcast, reviewing subject matter, or making comments. It's been awesome to listen to all of them. We are compiling them, we are picking our favorites, and we're going to begin here in just a minute airing a couple ever at the end of every episode, and so give you a chance to make your comments good or bad about the show. If you really hate me or hate what I'm doing, I want to hear that too, and I'll play that for everybody so everybody can get all the perspective they need to get. So far, everything's been positive and I do appreciate that. Um. Before we get to that, go to the meat Eator store the meat eator dot com click on store. We have a brand new awesome T shirt Aldo Freaking Leopold. He is a father of conservation. He wrote in my opinion this seminal work um in conservation and wildlife management in the outdoors, Sand County all a Sand County Almanac, and he's just a hero in conservation. I don't think a lot of people even know know what he looks like, but my brother, if you go to Instagram at Wheelhouse Art. That's at Wheelhouse Art on Instagram. My brother is an artist. He drew an awesome characterization of Aldo smoking a pipe and it says below it Aldo freaking Leopold and he is the man. So read his works know who he is. Go buy the t shirt at the meat eator dot com store. We would really appreciate it here at the Hunting Collective. And now, without further ado, we're gonna we're gonna send send you guys off, of course with a little old number seven. Before we get to that, two comments from two awesome listeners. Here they are and we'll see you next time on the Hunting Collector. Hey ben uh, this is Matt, the same guy that called you from his turkey blind a couple of weeks ago. Um. I didn't take a turkey that day, but I took a turkey this morning. My first ever not just wild turkey, I first ever kill of anything. And I shout out with a bow and arrow here in Minnesota. I just bought the bow in February here. Um. You know, I was inspired to get into hunting because I wanted to harvest mow meat. I wanted to be involved. I wanted to enjoy the public lands that we have, and folks like you and Steve and the Mediator crew and h podcast and all the guys out there on social really inspired me to do it. And uh man hooked for life want an incredible experience. Thanks for what you guys put out there. Keep it up and I can't wait for the next episode. Thanks man. All right, Benjamin, big fan of the podcast. Love what you're doing. I got a damn near died here for you. But it's not hunting related. Hope that's okay. I hope I still make the podcast. Here it goes. So I'm nine years old, Me and some buddies get together. We're riding our bikes and we come up with a great idea that we're gonna build a ramp and start jumping in. So our ramp is made out of bricks stacked up together and apply wood board laid on top. So we're jumping it for a couple of hours, and then my buddies mom comes out and says, hey, lunch is ready. So of course, cliche, I want to go one more time. I hit the ramp. Bricks fall out of the ramp as the plywood board bends it shoves the top layer of bricks out from the ramp. I land on one of the bricks stops my front tire on you know, on the dot. I flip over the handlebars, slide into the road. All the skin rips up off my left arm, and as I slide about a foot to two ft into the road, perfect timing, here comes a little Chrysler Sea bring so you know you hear a little and there goes my left arm. I pull it up and take a look at the damage. Looks like straight out of a Tom and Jerry episode. My arm has perfectly taken the shape of a U that would have fit both tires of the vehicle. The reason that the damn near died is the tire actually hit the back of my head, ripped my Atlanta braves hat off, and sucked it into the wheel well. Um, instead of running over my head, it actually hit my head hard enough to knock it out of the way before killing me. Anyway, I ask my damn near dad, I love what you're doing. Love THHC. Not the green stuff, but the audible stuff. I'm going Tennessee. Who is he got the drinking in heaven? And I know I can't stay here, do long, because I can't go a week without doing run oh without doing run breaking out right wrong, drinking in Heaven

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