00:00:00 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Tyler Jones and you're listening to the Element podcast. What's happening on My woods people? We are currently uh in and around in Maury, Texas, and we're driving you could probably tell, so there may be some some bumps and some noise and this and that going on. But Casey is my co pilot tonight. What's happening dude? Just deer driving. It's one of my favorite things to do, and pretty much when you're in the heart of the off season, there's not much else to do but drive around and just maybe daydream about being able to hunt a property one day. Yeah. Yeah, And we've got some respect or prospective properties going on, right are some prospects. Were actually fixing a view one on our right not far from here. Um, but if I think this one would work out, I just have to ask. But if it doesn't work out, we can go to Plan B, which is always the public land game, which is fun. Ye. Speaking of Plan B, we have a guest tonight. That is a good dude to be talking to this time of year. Is and I love the way you did that. The transition master T Jones over here, thank you. So we have Chris B. Who is a professional archer, which this is the time of year to start getting into archery and start learning how to shoot your bow better and figuring it out and practicing and that kind of thing. And that's what we've got today is an episode talks a lot about that talks about uh hunting deer as well. So we try to take all these these uh we're gonna try to take all these different concepts and we're gonna try to relate them all to the hunting world. So it's not uh, you know, so you don't sit there and think, oh, this is how you would shoot, you know, if you were a competition or something like that, but uh, you know, it's different in the woods. We're gonna try to make sure you know this is what you do in the woods. Anyway, before that, though, you and I got a few things to talk about, or at least I know I do, so you may be doing some listening. But I actually one thing that I plan on doing is getting a new rest soon. So I would say this, if anybody has any suggestions or thoughts about a new rest um and what I should get, I would love to hear them. I always love hearing everybody's takes on what kind of equipment I should use, because uh, nothing better than uh, you know, first person experience to help you out. That's been good over the last couple of years doing this thing. So no, I always I know a lot of guys that shoot the q A D Ultra rest and like it seems to come come standard on Matthews bows, so I think they might be part of it. But I kind of always wonder if it's one of those things where it's just just accepted, is like that's what you do, but is it really the best answer? You know, are there better answer for dropaways and the right and that's uh, you know doing research. Man, everything sees on that on that particular rest, and it's high dollar and I'm willing to pay high dollar for a rest if it's gonna make me shoot accurately. But I mean, how else do you really know? Then? By kind of what portom outs kind of funny because people are so passionate about archery equipment, is that it does not matter what it is. There's someone who hates it, someone who loves it, and a bunch of people in between every product, so like it's it's it's literally like there's so much information about it that it doesn't do you any good to have the information. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Man. So anyway, if you've got any thoughts about that, feel free to hit me up. Okaysey, I have a story for you. Do you this this? I have a couple of stories. Actually, this road right here is where I shot at my first archery buck, is it really and hit him in the bed zone. So hunted a little property down here that I got permission from on a guy, that old guy in town. Asked him if we can hunt, if I can hunt, and he was like, yeah, y'all go out there or whatever I mean, And buddy did. So. I started putting some corn out out here, and uh, and hung in this little opening. Didn't have a clue really what I was doing, you know, always just hunting feeders, going up and gun hunted. Starting to get into archery. My dad taught me how to shoot a little bit. And so anyway, put put a stand up in a tree on the edge of this opening. I don't even know if I knew where my wind was blowing. Uh, and uh, probably I don't know. It has at least thirty minutes affoard what time it is right now, so it's not too late, but it's golden hour. Um, I see a buck coming and I put my bi knows on him. It's a three point yes. I'm like, yes, sir, he was illegal. So he got to like five yards, came straight to the tree from like seventy yards out at like five yards, and um, you'll hear Chris talk about this in this episode. I'm sure, but I didn't didn't get my anchor point right, if you know what I mean, at a on a five yard deer and shot high and hit him in the dead zone. And we found one tiny spot of blood over the next day. So pretty disappointed, heart broken? Were you very? Very? I was sick. I mean that was one of those things I always wanted to do, was shoot a deer. And in East Texas, and uh, growing up around here, that was not like like if you didn't have land to hunt on, like, that was not an easy thing to get done, you know. But that property was right up here. Is that is it that deer that might be him right there? Yeah, it does look like it. He's solo and he's a big buddy. So anyway, Yeah, that's one story. My next story, and this has happened. Uh, let's see, was this last weekend, No, this is the weekend before maybe Anyway, Uh, my wife had a birthday and I hadn't talked about this year on the podcast Somebody but um, her and I decided to go down and if you are a podcast listener, will remember Jesse Griffith's who has a restaurant named I Do A in Austin, Texas. So we decided to take a trip down to Austin. You know, people that aren't from Texas or hadn't been here, you might think, oh, yeah, you know, just cool little you know town right down the road from where we're at. No, it takes about five hours to get there. But we ended up going down there to his his restaurant, and Jesse was not able to be there um that night, but made a gesture and paid for some of our food, which I thought was really cool. Uh we didn't know that was gonna happen until we went to pay the bill. So anyway, we had a blast the food. I'm not just saying this was spectacular, I mean it was incredible. Dude. We had these these base shrimp that were large for when had literally I don't know what they were cooked in, but it was like an appetizer. It was kind of an expensive appetizer, but it was worth it. And they were cooked in something that had it was almost like a like some kind of a thin, real thin, like a two fee of some kind or something. Oh my goodness. Me and Kaylie were just smiling. We're just like, what is this? Like I've never tasted anything like this, but it's incredible. And so anyway, the main part of this story, um, has happened before we actually went to the restaurant. Okay, I was signed up, which I wanted to do this because I had never done it and I thought this would be something that would like maybe help my old football body out. But I was signed up for a massage by Okay Lee, and so we went to get this place. I wish, Okay, you're about to find out why. Um we did a couple's massage. And so when she had kind of like uh pre ordered this thing or whatever online, like they ask, you know, do you want to uh do you prefer what sex of person does your massage? And I was like, I mean, I'm not too worried about it, but yeah, a female would be we'd be a lot less creepy and and make me more comfortable at least probably, you know. Um. So we get there and this was happening, you know, this first thing we do. We got to Austin. We get there, it's all kind of weird and not my kind of scene, you know, too much. And and anyway, they call us back and they go, oh, she introduces us to our masseuses, which are both men. Oh, awkward for both of you. Well I think I don't think she had a preference anyway. So anyway, they're both men. So we get in there and it's like super quiet, you know, and there are there are you know, it's like some Chinese music playing, like real soft, you know, and the background and uh and so he says a couple of words and he's got his muse voice going on, you know, and it's so and so I'm just like already kind of like tense, you know, and just not really digging this. And he goes to working on my back and dude, I don't see how it's possible to squeeze somebody as hard as this dude was squeezing me. Man, I'm talking nailing like every little spot in between my spine column, you know, and I'm like, I'm sitting there just trying to be tough. You know, I'm the dude. My wife hadn't said anything yet, you know, and so like I'm i gonna be tough. So like ten minutes in this thing, he starts hitting my neck and I can't take it, dude, and I'm like a little less pressure, please, a lot of you. So anyway, this guy also happens to have a stuffed up nose, which is really cool in a quiet room. Um, when you're you know, barely breathing out of your nose and it's making all kinds of weird noises and then you know, you gotta sniffle every like a couple of seconds. Um. Okay, so he starts, uh he eventually I get turned over on my back and uh he definitely he worked legs and worked up real high on me, uh several times, which was uncomfortable. There was not a moment of comfort during this whole thing, okay, you know. And so at one point he I'm I'm on my back and he gets up on top like by my head kind of right, and uh and and I've got my eyes closed because you're supposed to relax, you know, or and he starts working on my biceps and he's working down my biceps, and all of a sudden, he like takes his arms and it starts to like go down my arms with both of his arms, right, and I feel something touched top of my head first of all, And so I know he's getting like he's getting stretched out a little bit, and I can like feel his head very close to my head. Okay, so I cracked one of my eyes open and just barely. Dude, our faces were so close to each other and I just I just close my eye real quick and just trying not to breathe dude. So anyway, that was. That was towards the end, and that was kind of like the grand finale. I guess that's good. Yeah, so they got all up in my space. Man, there was not a moment of comfort that I had in that thing. Yeah. I have a massage toy not nearly as funny, but pretty funny that would go along with that. Yeah. We did a couple of massage one time too, and um, I didn't really care to like be next to Kessie while doing a couple of massage because I'm gonna not say words, and I'm not going to touch her and I'm not going to have my eyes open, right, So like, yeah, we'll just put us in different rooms. You know, I don't care. And uh so we did that and I got a hefty will endowed lady who was really good massage masseuse, and um, she did the same exact move except when she bent over, it was like I was suffocated in her bosom. It's terrible. It was like I had ear muffs on. Man, it was Yeah. So pretty much, maybe we should just like a requested at the beginning of the massages that they don't do that move whatever that's called. If you know what it's called, reach out to us, let us know, and we need to not have that hat. And yeah, definitely the bysset bosom choker. Yeah, it's not. No, it's not. Um so you went on a trip, uh this weekend? We didn't. There's a deer right there on the side of road. We went over there. Um so you went on a trip this weekend? How was that? Man? It was great? Man, it's talked about it really. Yeah. Higher Ground Ministries, which is like a nondum uh church retreat thing they do for many women across. Uh, well, they have two places in Texas in one place in New Mexico that they do it, and um, it's like man, just and so I'm gonna struggle to describe describe it because it's, you know, kind of one of those things. And it uh was very spiritually moving. It was very uh good at breaking you down, which sounds strange, but like us as men in particular, we're so bad about putting up these walls and being like trying to be strong and macho, and it's so hard to let your guard down. But when you do and you feel like you're around friends and you're around people who care about you, it's a lot easier. And that's kind of what this thing sets you up to. And then they m there's like twelve or thirteen different talks during this thing, kind of like many lessons or whatever, but it's really twelve or thirteen testimonies of guys and what God has done in their life and where they've came from. And and uh, there was a lot of man tears going on this weekend. Yeah, it was. It was. It was cool man. And know, I know that doesn't sound like fun. Um it might be type too fun like we've talked about a few times talking the podcast, but it really wasn't even about fun, you know. And to be honest, like heading into this thing, uh me as kind of a stir crazy outdoors kind of person. I was really worried about having to sit inside for two days straight and then come Sunday once we did our our church service there. Uh uh, I didn't even Like that's when I finally realized, like, hey, I didn't worry about being inside this whole weekend at all. The whole time I was here, you know, and that's when you know, like that conversations are good and the worship is good, and like God was there, you know, and that's that's cool, you know. And we were reading scripture that you know, whenever two or get two or more gathered, God has got us with them and you get that many people together for a common purpose and in singing praising God, and it's it's pretty moving, man. So that's what we had going on this weekend. Well that's cool, man, I you know, like that what you kind of struck a chord with me, which is actually a pun. But I uh, when you talk about like guys getting uh like calloused and such too. A lot of the things, um, a lot of things in the world, I guess. Um, like I tried to as a musician, as a songwriter more than anything really like, um, you know you have this uh you have to like have the ability like reach inside and pull out emotions from yourself or you're just writing lame music usually, you know. So um. So, like recently, I wrote a song that's gonna be on the next album that uh is very deep and about like some really tough moments in my life in the last like three years. And it's one of those things that, UM, I know when I sing in the studio, like there will be man tears, you know, because I know that because that happened on the last album, and I can just tell with this song that's gonna be that way. And it was like, I don't know, it's just um. You know when a guy like shoots a big buck that he's put a lot of working for and he and he cries, Um, you know, there's a bunch of like bottled up emotion that has come out in that moment, you know. Um. And it's kind of the same thing for me with music, Like there's been a lot that's like come to ahead all of a sudden in this moment where like you're finally in the studio to record the final version of this song, you know, and uh you want to put your heart and soul into it vocally, you know. So um, but yeah, like I I have to deal with that, and so I guess like as a as a bridge here, like I have really tried to kind of reach back out, especially this weekend with you gone, I didn't have nothing to do us high ground you got to go. It's uh no, but I I've been I reached out, uh you know into my my audience with my band the Tyler and the Tribe and um, and tried to like kind of open up to them emotionally about some things that have happened and a c m S went on this weekend and stuff and um, you know we did a song with Marion Morris and so like there's uh some emotions that have played into that. So if you're interested in knowing what I was talking about, you can go check out, uh, you know my Facebook video that I did live video um on that page. But uh, anyway, like I've been trying to like open up, just be transparent and honest and and that kind of thing, and it's not very easy to do in the public eye. Man. You know, UM, I guess the reason I'm doing that has been preparation for this next album. So, like as a kind of shameless plug here for the music. UM, you know, doing a Pledge music campaign, which is uh kind of like a funding campaign. But what you do is you plan, you pledge x amount of money. It doesn't cost you anything and too basically you get what you bought. Um, and if we don't fulfill the campaign, then you don't owe anything and you don't you know, none of this stuff is uh delivered. So but we've got a Pledge music campaign. I think the goals five thousand dollars, which won't cover the album, but um, I have a little extra money saved up for it, and uh that will help tremendously towards getting the album done. So if you are interested in music interest and seeing what kind of music I am coming up with, um, you know, go uh go check out that Pledge music campaign. Kind of a plug there, but I appreciate you guys for listening to that and allow me to kind of plug it. So I know we're running along with this intro. But uh, I just wanted to make a statement. I have spent a lot of money on tags this year already. Yeah, I've spent some and I'm going to spend more very soon. Yeah me too. I still buy uup so yeah, I know that's a brutal one. Yeah, so I gotta buy points this year for that and that we can do that until much later, I believe. Really, I thought it was still the same deadline, but just way cheaper. Maybe not. I need to check on that, make sure it's a It's usually first of June, I believe, so yeah, we should have we have time. We'll check on it. But anyway, um, I think it's about time wrap at this intro. We're gonna get to Chris By and man, just I know that, uh, this isn't the end of the podcast, but thank you guys for listening allowing us to uh have this platform, share this platform with you guys and share just our thoughts and new emotions and hopefully we don't get too emotional for you guys sometimes, but keep some tactics in there. It's part of it, you know, Like I feel like if you don't share the human element, like how how exciting is is this? You know, what, what what is life? You know? Like for real though, you know, like what's the point of doing all this? Yeah? I said this before and I can't remember what podcast it was. Um, but people are the most important thing on the earth, you know. So, uh, the relationships that we built with each other are very important to us. So anyway, let's get Crispy on the phone and listen to what this professional archer has to say. So on the phone, we have competitive archery shooter, vlogger and hunter cris B of the B season. What's happening, dude? Thanks for having me. Guys. Oh man, We're We're glad to have you for sure. What's good man? What's been happening in your world? Just been grinding? Yeah, she was like, it's just NonStop. But yeah, everything's great, everything's good. Uh. Competitions are gonna start ramping up here pretty soon for Outdoor coming in May, and it's just gonna be even crazier. So yeah, but it's all good. So you're still really involved in the competitive side of archery huh. Yeah. So, Um, I've shot since I've been you know, I started shooting bow when I was six years old. UM first to bow hunt. My dad bow hunted UM. But eventually I found tournaments through the local club organization and UM, I thought that was really cool. Went to a couple of state tournaments. I thought it was, you know, even more cool, and went to nationals and then you know, it's just snowball effect. From there, started going to national events and everything, and discovered um USA Archery and U said events and the United States Archery team and made that for several years. And when I was sixteen, UM there's a major tournament in Vegas every year. It's like Worlds. It's like the shoe. If you know anything about competation, our tree, you're there pretty much. UM. So I decided when I was sixteen to jump into the pro division UM and I did extremely well. I only dropped one point I shot, which I was like, yeah, So I cleaned it the first two days and I was only like the final fifteen people clean. I got all the pros and everything, and I really didn't have any clue what the heck was going on because I was But at the end of at the end of that second day, um WIT, which is my current sponsor, came up to me and be like, and I've had a little bit of relationship with them, but they were like, hey, you're doing really good, let's let's talk after type thing. So I ended up dropping one the third day or whatever. But that moment right there kind of kicked off my pro career and the shooting ever since. Uh, finally shot a nine hundred in Vegas and made the shoot off last year, so not this in Vegas, but last year Vegas. So that was super cool. And yeah, just grinding ever since. And I'm still a college student. I go to Michigan State University UM for advertising, So still going to college and doing hunts like you mentioned the season stuff, So yeah, that's kind of me in a nutshell right now. Cool man, that's good. So, uh, for the listener that may not know, um, you know, I'm asking for a friend here, but what is the nine? Sorry? Yeah? So in basic Vegas round, so that's like you see the yellow, the red, blue, the black, the yellow target, there's the three spot version and that's you shoot thirty arrows and out of those thirty arrows, if you shoot all tens, that's a three. So and that's at twenty yards indoors. So each day in Vegas, you shoot thirty arrows and by the end of the third day you shot a total of ninety arrows. And if you shot all and that's a nine. So it's not that it's extremely hard to shoot a nine hundred, like all the pros should be able to do it on any day of the week. The problem is is the pressure cooker of Vegas that makes it so hard to shoot the nine. So I mean, I think there was fifteen people out of several hundred, you know, all that shot a nine hundred the year I shot it, you know, and this year there was ten or twelve or so. Hm, so yeah, that's nine d so. So on that note, I'm going to kind of jump into something that I really wasn't wanting to get into yet, but we'll go ahead and do it. You know. Um, I'm not like much like in that perfect form archer category. Um, I don't know a ton about archery or shooting, even though shot a bow for about twelve years or so. Now, Um, after this podcast, I intend to strive to be better, you know. Yeah, yeah, but uh I'm shot pretty well on might tell dear, and like my dad and I if we shoot together, like he's worse than me on the target, you know, uh, not not much. But like my dad has seriously in the last ten years, he's watched every single dear he's shot fall and I'm talking like not run three yards down in the open and we're talking like die in like forty or sixty yards you know. So like he's just he's just a crack shot when it comes like down to the game time and just got that killer instinct. Yes, it's a lot of people call it killer killer instinct. Stink Dive called it. Just like being a gamer. Um. So like in the moment of truth, you know, you come through, Um, I mean do you experience that? Do you like believe in that? You know, what are your thoughts on that? Like during hunting, like just I mean even in competition, you know, like you reminded me when you're talking about in competition, just the pressure of Vegas. You know, like, um, there's just some people that can come through and shoot, and then like there's those guys that we'll never shoot a nine even though they could do it any day of the week, they just can't do it in Vegas because it's so much pressure. You know. Oh yeah, yeah, So yeah, I get what you're saying now. I mean, yeah, the top dogs that have been doing it forever have mastered the hat pressure and it's still a ongoing, never ending as many times as you've been to Vegas, that pressure is always there and it's always so hard to overcome it. But there are the guys that, you know, are it seems like they don't have a pulse, you know, like Jesse Broadwater for example. Uh, he just seems like Mikey Slasher. These are names that you know, if you're in the community, you know it. But uh, you know, those guys can just straight up pound, you know, under whatever amount of pressure. Um. And yeah, I mean in the hunting situations, same thing. You know, I've missed quite a few deer, you know which My high school buddies to make fun of me because they all deer hunt and stuff too, and they figure since I'm like a tournament archer and stuff that I smoke everything. But uh, you know that pressure happens, and and you know, you mess up every now and again. Um. Yeah, definitely, there's a there's a tournament kill mode. I guess you could say when you're on stage, you know, head to head match or something. There's guys that just love that stuff, and then there's guys that just absolutely crumble, you know, and and you know, just fall apart. So yeah, I'm see, I'm kind of like you mentioned this, there's guys that have like mastered that and therefore those guys probably have a lot of experience. You know. How is that what you're seeing? Like, how do you develop this trade? Is it just you have to be in that situation. Is a lot of times before you can you know, develop or high pressure situations. I think that's one thing for sure is being being in it as many times as you possibly can, you know, um, going to as many tournaments as you can, um, just you know, knowing that feeling, knowing how to deal with that feeling. Um, And then you know, like a lot of this is you know, who you are, just personality and you know, not everyone's you know competitive like that or or you know can handle it. But you know, definitely anything's obviously anything's achievable. And the more you go and the more you learn and just know how to deal with those situations is the better. So yeah, so how do you feel the crossover is do you think that being stone cold in tournament helps you a ton being stone cold in the woods, or do you think it's kind of inverse and it helps a little bit? Has it affected you since you've gotten so much in the tournament archery, you know from the stand. Yeah, So I definitely think that termin archery helps um, especially like I do a lot of self filming, and I've gotten my ratio is a lot better at getting to kill on film and not getting Uh. I don't think I've like missed an opportunity in a long time at getting one on film. Sow your well, No, I think it's how I think that tournament archery has taught me, you know, in those in those pressure moments, in that you know, eighty nine arrow or nine arrow, you know, focusing in and and knowing that you know, in tournament archery you look at it as every arrow counts as one arrow, and it's not as a commulative you know, all ninety arrows. You look at it as every single arrows its own arrow. So in hunting, you know, you probably you can think of it a similar way that this moment. Even though it's a high pressure situation, it's still you know, it's real time everything you know, you're you're in control of it, you know, so just slowing down, just thinking through everything, you know, making sure camera's good, everything, and then and then you focused in on you know, shooting the animal or whatever. But um, yeah percent think that if I was just one or the other, I wouldn't be as good. Yeah, yeah, that's cool, you know. And this past year is my first year doing any sale filming at all. Really. I uh, I had dabbled in a little bit of film stuf when I was in high school, but you know, it's like you're talking about like a little handicam just you know, just doing your thing because it's fun with your buddies or whatever. But since we started hanging out with Tyler, he's all about that film stuff and taught me into dudes you know, some of it, and we do a lot of it together. But the self filming for for me was super new this year, and it is astounding how bumfuzzled you can get whenever you know, you got animals around and you're just trying to figure out, like where's the record button. You know, it's something you've done a million times, but the pressure and it's it's a whole new pressure because I feel like I got a touch of game or two. When it comes to shooting animals, I've i've I used to have occupation where I got to shoot a lot at animals. So like pull the trigger. Being a trigger man for me is not that big of a deal. Of course, whenever you you have a target buck in the area, it's a different thing altogether. But but still, you know, like I feel like I'm pretty composed, but then you start through own electronics in the mid and trying to stuff up. Man, it is insane. So you know, why did you decide you wanted to sell film in the first place. That's a great question. Um. I was actually thinking about this the other day. UM. I used to film my dad every now and again. Um, we used to go on these like in Michigan. It's a big thing. Uh, there's like trophy hunts or whatever. It's like a big thousand acre ranch and you can go shoot wild pigs or whatever. And for his work, he used to go on a trip every year. And this is when I was like eight nine years old. So like before, I would would hunt or anything and I would carry I would carry it on video camera and just film everything because I didn't have anything else to do. And uh, that's actually where it really started. But in high school, I think junior year, UM, me and a couple of buddies thought it'd be a good idea to create an Instagram page and try to get some Hunts on film and stuff. And we're actually in a uh a entrepreneurial like marketing class and we had to create a business. So we created like a outdoor TV show business. So we actually played it all out and I think we got up to four thousand followers on Instagram and stuff and put together some hounds and we got uh three or four kills like that fall semester during school, and uh it was kind of cool. And I stuck with it and the other guys didn't. And I just you know worked at stealing you know, the video camera out of the family cover to you know, record baseball game. I'm not kidding, record baseball games. And I bought a thirty dollar real arm, you know whatever, and did that for a year and got like two films or two two hunts on film and worked my way up and bought my own stuff, and I mean now I'm upgraded. Uh, I guess you could say production quality stuff. But I just enjoy it. Like at first, I just love the con formation and uh, and just a huge excitement of knowing you shot the deer. But then you also got it on film you can watch forever. You know, there's a lot of kills on film that I haven't done anything with. You know, in the beginning stages, I just enjoyed having that memory, I guess you could say, um, but now I just love sharing it and you know, just the whole experience. Sure, man, It's just another one of those things where you you can just add another uh I guess edge to what you do and and put yourself under more pressure and it just prepares you for for more pressure in the future. Right, So she makes sense. So on that note, UM, I kind of had a question about you know, target is a big part of your life, right and uh, this is kind of a debate that I've had with my buddies, uh, you know, around and different people. But I'm sure you've shot a lot of flat targets and a lot of three d Uh. Do you feel like one or the other really does prepare you better for a hunting scenario? And why? It's a great question. Um, I definitely think shooting three D targets is you know, definitely more tailored towards hunting situation because it's an animal. But shooting a target definitely, um, you know obviously as scoring rings and stuff, but it shows how good you are, you know, even if you're not scoring. So it really you know, shows what you need to work on if you're working on form, if you're working on you know, basically trying to become a better archer to be a better hunter. You know. So shooting a paper target, I mean I shoot a paper target quite a bit with my hunting bow. Um actually i'd i'd probably say I shoot on a paper target with my hunting bow and then only like ten on a three D target. Um. So yeah, I mean, target is big for making sure you're you're you know, dialed in and and you you personally don't have anything you need to work on. So keeping like these bigger concepts in mine as we transition, Like I kind of want to talk about the details of good shooting habits, um, so kind of shooting form and stuff like that. So when you start creating habits out of form, what are we looking at first? Yeah, So there's a few you know, basic building blocks, you know stants, uh, your bow hand, your draw hand, you know, anchor point, you know, there's all that stuff. Um and assuming that you have the correct drawing and everything, you know, because that's a big thing too. Um. A lot of guys like to get speed out of their bows and they'll have the drawing three inches longer than they actually should. Um, even TV guys, which is obnoxious. But um so, I mean, you know there's big things. Uh. You know, I can narrow in on a few, so anchor points a huge thing. And you know, as we're hunting them, were white tail hunters and going in November in the Midwest, we like to wear a lot of clothes, so you know, an anchor point can get kind of muffled underneath you know, a face mask or you know, a high collar or something. So for me, it's always super important that I either um and wearing clothes that can keep my you know, job boned face exposed. If I'm using a trigger release to really you know anchor behind that you're correctly or you know, whatever your anchor point is. And I really really try not to shoot a face mask because even though you might be able to practice good with a face mask, practice with it. But when that hundred sixty and you know, target buck steps out and you all, you're all, you know, jacked up on adrenaline and you pull back and you and it feels foreign, like I'm for real and it feels foreign that there's a little thin piece of cloth in between you and you anchor a little bit different in your peep sites not lined up. I mean, that's that's real scenario right there, you know. So a big thing, you know, anchor point. Making sure that you know your anchor point in your hunting clothes. You know, I'll practice, I'll practice in all my hunting clothes at least a couple of times this season and make sure everything's good and you've got clearance and you're not gonna smack your arm because you've got some big poofy you know, code or something like that. Um so that on. Can you explain what you feel like? I mean, I know, I guess they can vary, But what is your anchor point look like? So mine? I shoot well for target. I shoot like back tension, handheld releases and stuff, but I really enjoy just a standard index trigger finger for for hunting. So I'll put my my first pointer finger knuckle right behind my ear, and then uh kind of run my thumb down my jaw bone so I can like feel the back of my jaw bone, and then I'll do a corner of the mouth on my string and then the tip of the nose on my string. So I have, you know, one to three points of contact. That's the main thing you're looking for. You know, anchor points can vary, and you know, various anchor points do work, But the most important thing is you have various points of contact. So whatever those points are, it's fine. But if you just have one point in contact, like let's say you're floating away from your face and you just touch touch the nose to the string, that would be one. So obviously that wouldn't be ideal. Um, two is okay, but three is best. Having something you know, like like your faith against your jaw bone, nose the string, and then like you're knuckling the back of your ear. You know, the more anchor point, you know, solid foundations, you have the better. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And you said a couple of things that I really like, and I wanted you to maybe expand upon a little bit. Let's start first with the nose on the string. And I just kind of have a quandary about that because I'm a nose of the string guy too. I've got a big old nose. It's pretty easy tona make happy sticks out there pretty far, all right? I Uh, I shoot a about a thirty one and a half inch actually a bow. And yeah, I thought you're staying drawing. No, not drawings at all. I'm not a big guy at all. I wish I'd be taking my ear off if that was the case. Yeah, no, yeah, yeah, A t A s so um. My nose is pretty easily contacted to the string because the angles are shallower, you know. But whenever I say, for instance, I've shot some of these newer bows that are the compact style, and I have a really tough time making that third point in contact with my nose. Uh, would you like if I was to go to something like that, that shorter a t A style bow, would you suggest trying to, I guess, move your face around to make that happen, or just do away with that traditional point of contact. I definitely wouldn't go away from it because having having a tip of nose on your string, even like the your nose is fine, um is or not fine is key? So a couple of things you can do. I mean, you' try to keep your head and you know, as as upright as you possibly can. Um. But I've seen guys, especially in the competition, with some of these long acxle axual bows, sometimes they'll have to slightly turn their chin if you're right handed to the left, so you know, slightly turn it to make it work. Um. My advice would be to definitely try to figure out how to keep that nose contact on the string, but you don't you also on the flip side, you also don't want to be burying your nose into the string so much that it's bending it, you know, because if that happens, then you're dealing with torque issues and and everything. And and if you continue to dig in as you keep holding like keep digging in, then every shot can be different. So um, what's perfect is there's slight nose contact. Um. And yeah, so like what you're saying, you're probably like the try acts or something. Is that what you're thinking? Yeah, So, um, you know that bows it is different, um, you know, and you definitely might have to adjust your anchor point a little bit, and you may have to bring your hand up on your face a little bit to allow that string to be higher because it is on a steeper angle, you know. Um, so yeah, I don't definitely don't go, you know, just throw it away. Try to figure out how to make it work. Um. And I mean if I can try to explain it. But there's so many resources on like YouTube, knock on archery. You know a lot of guys talk about it. Um, George Ryles, I don't know if you're familiar with him, like, he's a very so George Ryles is like the king of coaching in the tournament archery. He does a lot of uh series called Thing a Week with Last Chance Archery, so he searched like last Chance Archery on YouTube. He has a whole series that he dives. He dives pretty deep. But um, he's very articulate about how he explains things, and it's very easy. I I go hunt him every now and again. Want to meet to refresher. So that's cool. Good. Well, we'll be sure to link to that in our show notes for for listeners. Um. The other thing that I wanted to ask you about is, you know, there's all these uh fancy styles and releases, and I've never really experimented with much. I've messed with the back tension just to touch, just in a shop, just playing around, and of course didn't like it because I didn't have anybody actually coaching me. I was just playing with it. Um. And I still don't think i'd ever want to hunt with one. I know people do. And then there's the throne style and then the traditional you know, index finger trigger release, and that's what I like to hunt with as well. Um. And it's interesting to me you as a tournament archer also like to do that, and and my justification has always been, um, I have complete control of when the bow goes off with that style of release, and that's just why I like it. Now. I know it can lead to punching and stuff like that, but at least that's kind of my take on it. Why do you think that you really like that trigger style release? Yeah, I mean it's a similar thing, you know. UM. Mainly for me, I just like that it's on my wrist a hundred percent of a time, so I don't have to fumble around in my pocket. Yeah. I was out West a couple of years ago. And I lost my release through to my pocket, ran after a mule deer and it reached my pocket again and it was gone. So do you think you at that point time or do you just had a backup? I had a backup. I'm not I'm no amateur. When what you carry an extra release in your pocket? I thought about it and my backpack. Yeah, what a g is Yeah that's even heck, yeah, even the wrist trap. You always need a backup. I got one always, Okay, But I guess that's just not that's not gonna help me a lot in the moment. So that's yeah, in the tree stand, that's not good. That's a good point, man, good point. So continue on with your points. Sorry. Yeah, so trigger release? Um yeah, So basically deciding what to shoot as a bowl hunter, trigger back tension or thumbunt. Always see a lot of It's comical because a lot of guys see all the tournament archer shooting back tension and they're just a bowl hunter, which nothing wrong with that, and they want to pick up a back tension because they feel like it will make them shoot better. Um, that's kind of the wrong way to look at it. Um, it's not gonna make you shoot better necessarily, but if you know how to use it properly, it can make you shoot better. Um. It's just kind of a weird way to say it. But I'm trying to interpret what I'm trying to when I'm thinking. Um. But so, for example, like Levi Morrigan, Um, I think I watched a video on him once explaining it. Well, he shoots a back tension all the time, so he shoots in tournaments. It's basically an extension of his body, so he knows when that release is going off. He knows exactly, you know, what it is. So to him, it's essentially a trigger. You know, he can rotate through the shot and let it go off whenever he wants, And that's what you want out of a back tension. It's it's a rotation. It's basically a seed. You know, once it falls off the cliff, it goes off. And you do that in termin archery by pushing and pulling rotating your back shoulder and it's supposed to surprise you. So you just hold on the middle and pushing pull and push your pull and the shot goes off. Um. So actually I just watched this video the other day. That's why I keep having I'm going back to it. But Levi said, if you can't hold on the deer for a couple of seconds to pushing pull and let the shot go off, you probably shouldn't take that shot. So I thought that was very interesting because I also think it's very true. You know, and in those quick situations where you have to you know, punch the trigger or you know whatever, it's probably when the deer's leaving or turned around or alert or you know what I'm saying, or walking so and you know, I have hunting with the back tension before, and you know, I know my back tension very well. And that was fine with it, um. But one big thing was, you know, when they sell them with a strap, you can connect to it. But is that I just had in my pocket. So you know, if you if you should be able to if you're a good archer with good form, and you understand the thumb button, the trigger, and the back tension, you should be able to pick all of them up and shoot equally as good, you know, at least within a couple of points. Um. The biggest issue is when people pick something up and think it will automatically make them shoot better, and that's just the wrong way of looking at it. You need to you need to understand it, you need to use it correctly, and then it can you know, it can potentially make you shoot better. But the main thing, you know, you can use back tension and trigger. You can use back tension and a and a thumb button and you can use you know, back tension and actual back tension. So thank you mentioned the bow hand is being another critical part of your form earlier. Uh, can you kind of run through that and talk about correct form within your bow hand? Yeah, so pretty base. Um you're when you look at your hand, it's called the lifeline. It runs up the center of your palm um. Your bow grip should be on that line to slightly towards your thumb. On that line the center of the bow grip um and your knuckles should be at a forty degree angle. So that's like your standard let's start here type you know, bow grip and and a lot of people just run it like that. You don't want to be getting too far into, like, you know, any of the meat on your hand. You pretty much want that solid you know, right on that lifeline a little closer to the thumb. Um. You know, all in there is nice and solid, and that's where when you're not full drawn, you run a line straight from your hobow to your bow hand. You know that's where that's where you're in line and you know everything lines up so and you won't hit your arm or anything if you do that correctly. Um, So are you what do your fingers look like in that finger like in your bow hand. Um, I rest him right on the front of the bow. Um. So like with my hunting rig, I don't have a wrist trap or anything. I just kind of rest on the front. I don't death grip it. That's one big major thing that a lot of guys do, especially you know, new bow hunters and stuff, is the death grip at like a baseball bat. You don't want to do that like at all because you'll end up torking the bow, which will screw up the tune and in simple terms, not hit what you're aiming at. Um. So it's really important just to either have some sort of wrist wrap or something so you're confident that you're not going to drop your bow. But um, just rest your fingers right on the front of it. And when the bow goes off, just let it kind of float in your hand. You don't want to grab it right after off or either, because that's gonna be you know, then you'll anticipate the whole shot and I'll just go downhill from there. So just nice. I mean, archery is just a soft sport. You know, nothing nothing is forced, nothing is you know, you don't want to be punching anything. Um, everything is natural surprise, you know, basically nice and your lax front hand. Yeah, sometimes I want to punch things, but I think it's different than what you're talking about. So um, So what else is key, um for for a guy that may be sitting twenty plus feet up in a stand, um shooting at a white tail down on the ground. Yeah, So um, the first thing is when you so we talked about you know, anchor, your bow grip and everything, but now you're shooting at something, you know, at an angle downwards. So what a lot of guys do is they'll just drawback and point their point their ball arms straight down and not move your torso or anything else. So now you just jacked up your anchor point and everything because you didn't rotate down with it. So um, A good training tool to practice shooting out of a tree stand is to draw back at you know, plane just zero degrees and then rotate and bend at the hips and keep everything in line and bend down towards the animal, so you're essentially not moving anything from your belt line up. You know, you're just you're just bending down so that keeps you know, your elbow in line and and everything anchor point wise on your face. You know exactly how it was as if you're shooting flat, because what a lot of times will happen is people just you know, point straight down and then they'll miss high. It's hard. You know, the most likely place where people miss when they just do that as high because everything's jacked up and they're looking at the bottom of their peep or the top of their peep or something. So yeah, and I mean you can even sit in a chair. A good training to also, it's just sitting a chair and then just bend at your or bend at your waist, you know, just as far as you can, and just keep stretching because it can it can feel like a stretch, but you know, and even standing up you do it also, and you're standing up is even a little better because you can kind of use your hips and everything. So so do you shoot both ways when you're in a stand or do you prefer to shoot standing up? Or um? I prefer shooting sitting down actually, um two a couple of reasons. Um, you're not moving around as much when the deer is there, so you just sit down, grab your bow, or you're already sitting and just grab your bow, get the camera on it, and way less movement. Um. And you know, I mean that's really it. You just move around. In my head, why would I be wanting to move around standing and pacing around and stuff. Obviously, if the deer is off your right shoulder, you gotta stand up and turn around. But I try to set up. You know, seventy percent of my shots off my left shoulder. I can grab my bow while I'm sitting down. I have my camera arm, so I can you know, reach it while sitting down and everything. And I'm just ready to rock. Yeah. See I'm just I'm with you on that. I'd like to shoot sitting down a lot. Um. Okay, see thinks some crazy sometimes, but yeah, I kind of like that as well. Um, you know, for the for the average joe. That's like a just kind of a you know, working class dude. Yeah, you know what, is there a great way to start practicing these techniques throughout the summer then and to think that like by the fall these will become second nature or is this like a probably going to be like a several years process. I mean, I know it's never ending, but you know what I'm saying, I mean, it all depends, you know, if if someone puts in the work in the summer and and reaches out to their local club or their local pro shop and and have someone watch them and really have someone coach them along this process, because it's hard to do on your own. I mean, I have a coach, and I've had several coaches throughout my life too to help me shoot, you know, because it's a big self awareness thing. You know, am I actually doing this? You know, unless you look at a mirror video record yourself or something, it's hard to know if you're actually doing it. So, you know, I mean, you can get way better with some simple things over summer, no doubt. Um, But can you you know, become the world's best archer in the summer. Probably not, But you can definitely make leap leaps and bounds by just you know, even pulling out the bow three times a night or three times a week and shooting thirty arrows, so you're just fresh. You know, that's big, that's huge. You know a lot of guys will pick it up in you know, September fift when the openers October one, and sometimes it's terrible and they open up their bow and their broadhead broke their bowstring. You know, they gotta run into approach shop and get a new bowstring, and everything's jacked up now, you know. Yeah. So, and I mean that this can dive deep, you know, it can. We're hunters and it's a responsibility to be as accurate as we possibly can, you know, because we're dealing with living animals, you know, like it can it can go back to it's our responsibility to be as best as we can to shoot these things, right, Yeah, I just you know, and I think that, uh, you know, for me, when I played football, you didn't want to be in the middle of a game with like thousands of people watching you and try to like go, I gotta think about this little technique thing with my footwork while the balls in the air or whatever. You know, like you wanted that to be a second nature thing, and so like I think of it kind of the same way. Um. You know, you hope that you kind of run through scenarios throughout the summer and you work on your form and technique and that kind of thing so that when, like you said, that big one sixty comes in, you're not thinking about all the things, like you can almost naturally pull the bow and have your three anchor points and bend at the waist and that kind of thing, you know, without thinking about it. Yeah, and that, I mean, that's just huge. You shouldn't be you shouldn't be worrying about, you know, shooting when that time comes. You just need to be focused about in the moment the range on him and stuff. You know. Yeah, for sure. Man, So I want to talk arrows for a second. Can we do that alright? Cool? So I got a little story for you. Whenever I was you know, uh, a mid teenager, you know, fifteen or sixteen years old really getting to the bow hunting thing. You know, I had a hand me down boat, go to the to the pro shop and I show up with like the arrows that that you know, my friend had given me with the boat, and the guy the guys like, man, those aren't the right arrows, and he whips out these things that I swear are like the diameter of a softball bat, you know, like a giant aluminium arrows, and he's like, yeah, man, this is what you need to be shooting. And so for about a year or two I had these big old thick alunium shaft arrows. Well fast forward, you know, uh, two or fifteen years however long that's been since then, and uh uh pretty much from what I understand is there was a time whenever people saw tournament archers using thick shafted arrows, uh and decided that, well, that's what we need to be using it in hunting arrows. And that's really not the case, right. Well, I mean there was a time Eastern was making what was called aluminum shaft that was meant for hunting, and that was really before the whole carbon arrow boom. I guess you could say, yeah, I don't know exactly how many years ago it was, but um it was like the retro Camo and stuff went ahead. Yeah, yeah, I mean those are the cats pajamas Like back when those were the things. Seriously, everyone had them. So dude, that's just the expression we don't hear much in Texas. So I'm gonna start. Yeah, I've been hanging out with all those George boys. No, that's cool, that's cool. Yeah. So anyways, yeah, so yeah, I mean, actually, that tree arrow shaft is a very very popular indoor tournament archery aero shaft um today, like it's it's the premier one. Um, so that's when you said that. Um, but I mean, no one's using that now really unless they're super old school, and really there's nothing wrong with it, but they've been because they're aluminum, you know, I mean they're meant for there's a reason why they don't sell them anymore. And they switched everything to carbon, you know. I mean you have the the fmj's and stuff that are aluminum coated or aluminum then carbon, but the carbon keeps a blooming them straight. Um. So yeah, I mean that was a that was a thing people thought, those that deer and stuff. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I killed my first uh deer with one, I think, so they at least work, right, you know, it was cool cool, And that was the old cellophane fletchings. You know that you could see here and stuff. Good times. N yeah yeah wait before social media, but yeah, exactly man, goodness gracious but a so, can you talk a little bit about like what a tournament arrow versus a hunting arrow looks like and maybe touch on like what foc front of center does for a for a hunter. Yeah, so, um, termin archery, there's a couple forms of termin archery that required different arrows. Um. So indoor big thing is is trying to shoot as big as of an arrow as you can to try to cut lines. So that was a we were just talking about. So that diameters three, we go all the way up to like a twenty seven size zero, so quite a bit bigger um. So like indoors, a lot of guys will run twenty seven's or five season I actually shoot twenty five um. But yeah, so bigger arrows inside and then small small, small, small arrows outdoors. So when we shoot the USA Archery events, we shoot fifty um and we'll shoot and arrow that's called like the Eastern X ten pro tour for examples. And when I shoot, it's like smaller than a pencil, like super small, and that that runs the same like FMJ technology, except there's carbon on the outside and aluminum on the inside um, which yeah, it's pretty interesting. And then it's also like barreled, so on both of the ends it's skinnier than in the center. Whoa, Yeah, it's actually a really unique concept. But it cuts the wind essentially and just stabilizes, you know better, and we'll run tiny little fletchings to minimize on wind drag and everything is good because sometimes we'll shoot in twenty one wins and we'll have to aim off you know in the you know, in the nine ring or the eight ring at times to it just hit the middle. So yeah, that's kind of you know, and that goes with field rounds and which you shoot like a golf course style in the woods. Um multiple distances is and then for three d um, like competition three d um, there's a good variety of stuff because you are shooting a little bit of distance um, but it is known yardage and everything with very little wind um in most situations, so a lot of guys will run like a three diameter arrow um diameter. And then I mean some guys will run like the next time and super skinny I've shot a couple of three D tournaments like that, and that's definitely one of the faster options. Um. You know, three DS is a speed game two because the smaller your site tape is, the less you know your AERI will drop. You know. So the guys you know, like Levi Morrigan shooting his type style, there's different styles in in three D, so there's known yardage and then unknown yardage and lee line stuff shoots unknown, so he literally has to guess his yardage. UM. So having a fast bow for that especially helps. But the known yard side still helps, but it's not acent necessary because you can just range it and put it right on it. Yeah, yeah, that's so. And then foc I mean, honestly, I don't even pay attention to foc I shot. I shot a five hundred and fifty grain arrow this year, which was like a dangerous game arrow, and a lot of people made fun of me, but I don't really care. I just wanted something that was heavy and I wanted to try it out. So I ran a five millimeter FMJ with a hundred grade Helix broadhead out front, which is like just a two blade, solid, you know, piece of steel. Um, dual beveled and then seventy brass up front. So I was running a really heavy set up and I think I had like nine out of nine pass throughs, Like every everything I killed like stuck in the ground. Yeah. Yeah. And I shot a two hundred pound pig and interest zip right through it. So that was my setup this year. Um. Only downfall of that is is a little slower. Um. So I did have like two deer duck me completely. So yeah, Um, but I don't know. I think next year I'll definitely run a little lighter set up. Um, you know, I don't know. I just want to try, especially out West. I had Uh, I shot at a deer that ran completely out of the way before the arrow topic so like I literally hurt my ball and it was like I'm on it here. It literally could have Yeah, it was terrible. Yeah. I had an experience where I had a target book is like season that just straight up ducked my I mean duck fourteen inches and was just skimmed hair and it was just like one of those things where you Ever since then, I've been just trying to really figure out if it was more of a I need to change my point or shoot a faster set up or whatever. But so something that I've noticed that you have a lot of success with. And and maybe it's just the videos I've watched the viewers, and you might it might not be a motif, but it seems that everything you shoot doesn't know it's been hit, and it like walks off or kind of jogs off like twenty or thirty yards and then you see it fall as opposed to everything that I've shot usually runs off like a banshie, you know. And I have a hypothesis to why it is, but I want you to want you to tell me what you think first, okay, Um, I mean it could be a couple of things. Well, I'm trying to think through what I killed this year. The first two dose I killed, they ran quite a ways, um, about a hundred yards um. And then my out West stuff doesn't really count too much, um because that's different. And then the bucket shot in Michigan. Yeah, that one just really jumped up and died four yards away. And then my Iowa one did the same thing. Uh. And then that the moose hornbuck I think was he didn't run far right, Yeah, that that was my Michigan. One yeah, the old yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, oh no, the one horn you're saying, Um, I was talking about the old old buck. Yeah, oh yeah, that old buck. Yeah. So, I mean it could be a couple of things really with white tail hun it has to do with habitat in my opinion. Um, so yeah, we do um a lot of hinge cutting and and habitat work on a two acre farm that I permission on and um we had a guy out kind of help us, and my dad is actually really really big into it at our home property. For like the past eight or nine years, we've went from seeing like a six point every couple of weeks to shooting like a deer in Michigan. So you know, we we we went all out my dad's hobby now. So yeah, it's really cool. So on this new farm, you know, we did a lot of hinge cutting work and we probably hinge cut two or three hundred trees so far this summer or the spring. Um, So, I think it has a lot to do with how the deer is and when you shoot them. So you know, obviously that that moose horn buck that really old when I shot it was as calm as calm could be. You know, it was actually peeing on its glands when I shot it, so it had no idea what was going on. And I think that was just you know, there's not a lot of pressure on that farm. We try to hunt it really well, and I just center punched him, double lunged, and he really had no idea what was going on. Um, So he wasn't you know, besides feeling hurt and stuff. He just jumped up and was like, what the heck happened? And I've had that happened as several other bucks. Um. But in situations like those two doughs I shot. That's on a completely different farm that is high pressure and we can't do any work with the farmer won't let us or anything. So it's like it's like shooting a deer in a park and it doesn't feel comfortable. And it was on. Both of them were on high alert pretty much, and they just, you know, a bad out of hell got out of there. So you know, a few you know guys might say, well, my boat was super quiet and you know they didn't hear it coming, which is valid, um. But if they didn't hear it coming and they just had something zipped through them and they were high alert. I really think they would have ran up, ran back out of there, you know. Or you know, another thing is that if a book is just you know, days and confused in the November eleven, you know, he doesn't really know what's going on because he's five miles away from his home range and he just got shot. He really doesn't know what to do, you know. Yeah, so yeah, what what was what were you thinking? Well? My hypothesis was, after watching years, are really noticed it is that you're shooting that fixed blade broadhead. I shoot an expandable, a rage extreme, which is you know, a pretty uh aggressive expandable. At least that's what A shot the past two years. I didn't shoot a deer this year with my bow, so that's fun to talk about. But anyways, uh, and every time I've shot a deer with that, they you know, run off like crazy, alert or not. And I've kind of thought it was that slapping motion of those blades popping open. I don't I don't know if it's like they can feel that more or if it a sound thing, you know, I know, they kind of spark and make a little sound sometimes and I didn't. I didn't know if if maybe you thought maybe the fixed blade versus expandable might make a difference there. I mean, it definitely could be. I mean, unless we hook up some testers to a deer shoot it, we don't even be tough to do. Especially we're gonna get ahold of some college kid and just say like, here's your senior project. Hey, you know you know some of those man, you're still still doing it. That would be your your graduates duties, mand thesis or whatever. Masters advertising. I don't know if anybody would hire you if you shot people, but that would it would be a broadhead advertising campaign. There you go, perfect box. So yeah, back to what you said, I mean it could be definitely. I definitely know that that's you know two blade. When it zips through it it you know, it's pretty clean. It's like taking a knife and cutting a piece of paper. I mean there, it's not tearing or you know, making a big gash. It's just like it's surgical, you know. And that's what I like, especially especially if I hit like in the no zone, or if I hit you know somewhere, you know, I hit a deer out west in the neck, and if I hit a deer in the neck with the rage right there. I really think it would have died, but it didn't because of the two blade. And I think a lot of deer that are hit with just a sleek, little too blade, um, you know, not hit good, heal up in their fine. Yeah. It's kind of like a paper cut. You know, you get a paper cut on your finger, you put that flat back over and it heals up in a day or two. Um. You know, that's an analogy I always think of if you take a three blade or rage or you know, something big and you hit the deer like in the butt and and it and it's open infected and it could die like a month later, you know. Yeah yeah, so yeah, I mean your point maybe valid. I don't know. We'll have to hook it up and get some college students to do it perfect man. Let us know what the results are. Yeah, I'll post it. So. I know this is like real situational. But when you draw back on a deer and prepare to shoot it, can you kind of run us through your thought process? Maybe or you know, maybe you're just going to autopilot. I don't know, but what are you thinking? Uh? That's very situational, but um, part of me goes in autopilot, but part of me it tries to keep and autopilot. It can break it down into conscious and subconscious minds. I don't know, are you guys like familiar. It's I've really deep into your subconscious mind and your conscious mind because of archery, because archery is very very mental with the whole pressure situation and and so it's hunting um in moments like that. So your subconscious is everything, you know, like putting too toothpaste on your toothbrush and brushing your teeth in the morning, like you really don't have to think about that too much, or you know, like opening up your phone and unlocking it. Those are things you do hundreds and hundreds of times over and over again that you're subconscious engraved and you really don't need to think about it. Conscious mind is like driving downtown somewhere where you've never driven before, like your full attention, like trying to figure out what's going on. So yeah, definitely part of me wants my subconscious to take over, like my form aspect Like I'm really not thinking anything form aspect um, but you know, I definitely I got my I run my binoes and then my range finder on a little rope that's right perfect to grab up whenever I need. So I'm constantly range in range and range in moving the camera, range and range in making sure the camera's focus, range in, make sure it's recording ranging, you know, moving my site and then you know, I'll pull back and I really try to pick a spot on the deer um. And in my very first B season episode, I smoked a dough opening day, like thirty minutes of light, and I hit exactly where I was aiming, and that deer didn't really duck, like just perfect double along in the heart like center mots, you know, center up and down, just right in half um. Then I had another dough stroll through about an hour later, and I did the same thing at it, but it was slightly alert and that like thirty five yards and it ducked the crap out of my string and I ended up just like nicking the back, you know, And so I was like, huh, you know, I really thought about that, and I was like, I'm gonna just take this as a lesson, you know, to just really pay attention and you know, different situations of deer habit or whatever the deer is acting like or whatever you can tell, make sure you pay attention to that. So the very next day, Um, I hunted that afternoon. I don't know, I hunted that. It was the very next time. It was a very fortunate opening day. It was the very next time. And I had this doughe for real, I had this dough stroll out. We're on like dough patrol. It's like opening day, so, uh, dough strolls out at like pretty chill. It's like eating alfa or I forget what it was. It was eating something in the farmer's field. And Uh, I was like, I'm gonna aim like two inches below this deer and just see what happens. So I range it, plenty of time, camera on it, just like no problem pull back. I literally aimed like like my fiber optic pin. The top of it was just touching the belly and I shot and I wreaking. I hit that heart like inside out, and that deer ducked right into it and it ran like a hundred yards and died. So my thoughts were it was super quiet. Um it was kind of residential, legal but kind of residential, so there was a dog barking that it kept paying attention to, and so it was like slightly alert and it was out in the middle of the field. And pretty much anytime you shoot at a deer, it ducks at least like niche or you know, or a little bit. And it was a mature dough. So it's like a you know, four and a half year old bucked smart and I just went for it and it worked out. So you know, that was definitely big, you know, like success for me for feeling out of situation and following through and knowing that that deer probably is gonna duck. But um I shot a or my Michigan buck that that that old buck. I didn't um anim well for that one, because I knew he was king on his glands. He was just got done chasing a dough and he had no idea what was going on. So I just you know, held center and shot and when you I watched the video and slow motion, he does not move until that broadhead touches him. So you know, if I aimed two inches below that, I would have missed that dear, you know. So and this goes I'm kind of going on a tangent here. But the buddy I go hunting with Travis Johnson, he has a hypothesis of deer don't hear the boat? Do you hear the arrow flying at them? So what he's done before is and we've both done actually is do tests where I'll like stand behind a tree right next to the target and he'll shoot an arrow and we'll listen and we'll listen to it come down, and he'll have like four different variations of fletchings and broadheads and everything, and and it really makes a difference. Like if you shoot a broadhead with holes in it, like a two blade with holes all over it, or a three blade, and then you shoot some honking fletchings and you shoot it, it it sounds like a freaking freight train going down there. Yeah. And then if you shoot you know, like a sleek little you know, like my helix has no holes and ishes too blade and then run the smallest fledging as you possibly can, you know, it cuts it by. So, you know, the industry is kind of made bows being quiet as an advertising standpoint. You know, they're trying to sell bows and they're trying to figure out what how can we sell bows, you know, so you know, quieter, faster, stronger, whatever. So I mean for real, so, um, I think a big, big, big, big big thing is is the actual arrow going down to the deer they hear it because a deer's the reaction time is very very quick. So you know, an arrow coming at you, you'll see their air twitch and then they'll start to drop, you know, like three quarters of the way that the arrow is already there, you know. So I don't know for thought, that's that's what goes through. I believe in it. Man. Uh you know, I don't know if you you knew this or not, but um, the Romans actually put holes in their broad hits to scare their foes in war. Did you know that? But I know that? Yeah, so that like, you know, the Romans they had iron or brass broadheads on their arrows and they would actually put holes on one side. That way it would whistle going through the air too, and you know, much slower reaction time of course, but scared scared with so like it's a thing, Yeah exactly. It's like okay, so did you ever grew up playing with those whistle footballs? You know, and you like throw them in and they're like the scariest thing ever coming to the area. You don't know where it's gonna hit you. It's the same kind of thing, Yeah exactly. Stand in the dark and have your buddy chuckle, whiffle whatever. You don't know exactly what it feels like. Yeah exactly. And I'm right there with you. I think they hear it. I also think that I. Okay, so the buck that I missed two years ago, I had to grunt stop before he got out of my last shooting lane, and um, he's a public land, mature buck, you know, he's he's he he's on high alert anyways, and then I grunt stop him, and not only does he stop and look, but he actually looks up at our tree where I'm at, and I think that he actually saw my arrow in FLT. Uh. There's no way to know for sure, but I mean his line of sight, I mean, there's it's easy to think he actually saw the thing. You know, I saw you move when you shot or whatever. Yeah exactly. So I think that I think that the arrow makes a big difference in it. And and quite honestly, the other day I commented on one of your YouTube videos actually and asked you about some fleshings that that you had fleshed up on them that yeah, yeah, it was me. Actually yeah, I responded, right, yeah you did. I really appreciate Yeah. And for real, this is my biggest pet peeve. Is I hate when all of these big people on YouTube and like in the hunting industry and everything, and all these people are commenting and they just let him sit like, yeah, you should try to beget in the music the street. It's even worse. Oh I'm sure, I mean it's yeah. Anyways, keep going. Yeah, fall Chris Bey on all his his social platforms, He'll talk to you a bunch of messages. I really appreciate your reply because I've never seen that lighted flesh before. But when you said that, that's the thought that came to mind. I was like, man, that's like a freaking glowstick flying through the air. You know, is do you would see that or be spook from it? I guess you haven't any any bad things happen with it. But well, not really funny story with that is, um, they're not a sponsor or anything, but I did reach out to them and they sent me those on accident. Yeah, I just wanted the regular ones, and they sent me those and I'm like, I'm like, well, I might as well just give him a try, and uh, it pretty much saved me a couple of hours of fletching my arrows, so I was like, it's a win win, So literally just slip them on. And I've been made fun of a lot about using them, because I mean, it's not it's not normal, it's not what people usually do and and um, but at a video standpoint and as the ease of use, um, they're pretty dang great. They're technically it's it's called the nocturnal helios. It's like this plastic fletching that slips over the end of your arrow and there's a lighted knock on the end of it. And they're technically called a lighted lighted veins because there's a little clear part on the back side of the veins that it's actually illuminated. One that lighted knock is up. And I think that was major for my videos this year, um, because like lighted knocks, unless it's unless it's dim or like you know, right at dark, they don't really pop. But I think my videos really really really popped because of those fletchings. Like most of the time you can watch that arrows sink right into there, you know, and I mean they fly legit. I mean, you know, I know how to shoot, and I was shooting them out like eight yards and stacking them. So performance wise a plus um ease A plus ease of use A plus. Um. The only thing that I don't really like about them is exactly what we're talking about is they're a little noisy. Yah. You know, because there's six fletchings, so there's just by the nature of it, there's more surface area for you know, air to go by. Um. But you know, if I've managed it this year, if I'm going to use them next year, I don't know. Um. Yeah. So so I think, uh, I think the film that Casey commented on might have been the Iowa film that you released recently. Um. So you decided to shoot that buck on a walk and I was just wondering why you made that decision, and that was killed mode taken over. Yeah. So, oh gosh, let me just recap on that hunt real fast. So that was me and my dad putting in preference points and we had a killer piece of property lined up. Um, going into our fourth year and that fell through last minute. Um, so we were in a mat I know. So we were in a mad scramble to figure out some property and I know, the guys for a muddy outdoors kind of well um, and we reached out to them. It's like, hey, do you have any ground you know or whatever. So we ended up you know, just working with them on some stuff and got a pretty good piece. Um. It didn't have any agriculture on it or anything. Um, so we were pretty much just working with funnels and you know, trails and everything. So summertime we went and locked it and hung I think six three stands, six or seven three stands, and we just headed out there and you know primetime November, um, I think we got their November six and just hunted and had a couple of great opportunities. I had like a one sixty not on film coming behind me and smell me, and a couple I had one another yeah I know, I had another like hundred and fifty inch that just I saw for a couple of seconds and chasing Toby and and uh So I hunted for nine days and seven of those days were dark to dark like in the stand, so I was pretty dang exhausted by the time I saw the block on the ninth afternoon. Um so, yeah, that that buck was coming in and uh, I don't know, it was that fifteen yards and it was walking down the trail and I had my pin right on it and I just squeezed the trigger. That's really it. I was just like I killed Moe took over and I was like, well, I just did that. I didn't grunt. Did you put any lead on him at all or anything? No? And I actually hit him like liver. So I looking back out, I regret this the decision, like I wish I stopped it, and I think he would have stopped. Um. But you know I did the same thing. Yeah, I did the same thing. Uh uh self filming in and had a big deer on our place that was seven and a half year old ten point with a little bit of junk, and um, he came in the same thing fifteen yards man, and uh just like almost full broadside but just so slightly quartered to um and he was walking and I was just like, man, it's just it's just too easy, and basically put it on his shoulder and I hit uh maybe four inches back of where I really wanted to, but it was it was still double army. He died fifty yards, ran fifty yards and died. You know. It's one of those things where I just kind of wanted to see how much you thought you might have had to have put a lead on it to hit where you wanted to. Yeah, I mean I really I really should have been aiming like right at the crew to the shoulder, but I was just aiming center lungs and ended up hitting liver. You know. So yeah, if I could redo it, I definitely would have grunted him. But yeah, you know what it is. Yeah, yeah, I know. It's a great film. Go watch it if you listen. And um, what are you most excited about? Coming up this fall? So I'll be doing uh, just hunting in Michigan. Uh, and then I'll do my Nebraska Wyoming with Travis again, which will be great. Actually know what I'm at least know what I'm doing this time. Bucking the truck was awesome. That was Oh my gosh. I just had the craziest fall I feel like I'll ever have. I'm not even I don't even know if I'll be able to top this, but literally We drove all night for Michigan, showed up in Nebraska like two o'clock. Two hours later, we had a buck dead like it was just incredible and right next to the chevy. Oh, it's such just a crazy story. Yeah, I don't. Didn't y'all get stuck like midnight and hour and knock on a farmer's door or something, so, oh my gosh, there's so much on the way to the brows. Guy had a brilliant idea of stopping and checking the trail cameras in Iowa because it was like a half hour an hour out of the way. I think he added to the trip. Totally worth it, you know. So GPS, stupid iPhone. GPS was like turn right, you know, it's okay, just sent it, you know, right down this old back road and it just rained. And for anyone in the Midwest knows that b roads are you know, enter at your own risk roads and just rain, freaking muddier than mud. And we didn't make it ten ft and we were like looking at each other thinking like we can't turn around, we can't do anything. The only thing we can do is pray that will make it to the end of this road. Because it was only like a mile long, and we made it like three yards and we barely got off the crown of the road and it just sucked us in right to me. So it's literally eleven thirty at night and we don't see one light anywhere because it's in the middle of nowhere, Iowa and uh. I first thing I said, it was like, okay, well we can either like sit here and cry. I'm not kidda used this. Literally we had five days and we had literally like I invested, you know, my own money and tags and everything, and we only had five days to go to two states and fill five tags. Like we couldn't. We can't be dealing with this right now. So I was like, we have to go walk somewhere, like we have no other option and um. So we literally barely said any words to each other. We just laced our boots up and we started walking. We had to walk like I think it was close to two miles for like the first house and it was some farmer's house and the dog's barking and I'm more outgoing one, I guess you could say. And and Travis is like thirty something and I'm only twenty. So I'm knocking on this farmer's door and he walks out with his overalls unbuckled, and you could tell he like just woke up or whatever. And we literally talked to this guy for like fifteen minutes trying to convince him to come help us pull us out with a tractor. And we're like, we literally have no other option, Like we're gonna come bang on your door again in the morning because we have no other So he was like, well, I got a couple tractors. I guess that would work. And we're looking around and this is an Iowa farmer. He has like six tractors, you know, like you have one of those will work, you know, And so he ended up being super cool. We jumped on the actor with him. He pulled us out like it was nothing, and that was it. And now it's like one in the morning. We went ran around in the woods at like one in the morning until three in the morning, pulled all the cards and we kept driving in Nebraska. There you go, like we were literally on a mission. And it was, you know, a story that for sure I'll be able to tell forever. Dude, that's one of those like and I don't ever like to like distinguish between like the real hunters and you know, the posers or whatever. But like you know that you're living right when you're you're willing to like take a detour in the middle of the that to go chicks and s D cards, you know, like that's the good stuff, man. Yeah. Yeah, like, oh gosh, yeah, that was great. When we we when we we went back to Iowa. Um or actually when we were stuck in Iowa and we were talking on the farmer after he pulled us out and everything, we asked him if he if we owed him any money, you know, because we were like play saying that up. Well, I was ready to fork up whatever it was, you know, because I was so thankful. But he's like, just like ten bucks. I'm like, are you kidding me? It's like I just woke you up at eleven thirty at night, um so, And I'm like, like, let's give you like something else. He's like, no, it's really fine. And so I'm like, have you ever had antelope? He's like he looked at me kind of weird, and I'm like, we're literally headed to Nebraska, Wyoming to go hunt, like we're gonna shoot an antalope and he's like, no, like I haven't. So I was like, I'm gonna bring you back to the mantalope. So when we went back to Iowa, we brought him just a giant like half cooler of antelope and mule deer and and everything. So that was pretty cool that we're able to do that. Oh yeah, that's awesome, man, that's cool. That was as a really cool video. I know Casey was intrigued by the enclosed car wash. We don't have this in Texas. There's like the power washer. Well like yourself, you have like roll down doors. I suppose because it's so cold that you'll just make a snow machine probably whenever you go to the spraying the thing. But we don't have that Texas. It's not a thing. Yeah, well cool man. So how does how does the listener go and learn more about what Chris By is doing? Yeah, so I'm on YouTube just you know, search Cris b last name b E just like the Bumblebee. Have to do that every single time. Um, you know YouTube that I have a bunch of stuff. I do vlogs about my tournament archery, and then I have this B season series that um I'm falling in love with really so yeah, and then my Instagram Crispy Archery, and then in the separate account to be season so Man awesome. We'll link to all that below in the notes, so if you're listening, make sure and check that out. And Chris Man, we appreciate your time. I know you're a busy guy these days, so keep us involved in. Uh, let us know what you what you've been killing lately. I know you're doing the Turkey thing pretty soon, aren't you. Yeah, headed up to Virginia on Thursday. Hopefully you can get it done. Well. Well, good luck, man, appreciate time. Yeah, thanks guys, This is a lot of fun. Yeah. Great talking to you guys. Yeah you two dude, see you all right, see you later. By man, it's always good to have a young guy on that like he knows what he's talking about, you know, I know, at least for once, because it ain't us no kidding man, Like I don't know. I like talking to the guys that are our age because we can brow it up. But at the same time, like sometimes you know, guys that are age you don't have as many experiences as the old dudes, you know, yeah, I think there's a certain formula too. Um, you know, experience and knowledge and intelligence, and whenever you add them all up, you get something great. And if you just don't have enough time to get the experiences or enough money away from work to get the experiences, you know, if you can do things like what we just did, where you talk to a guy who knows this stuff, I mean, that's how you elevate yourself whenever maybe you can't be out there shooting all the time or being the field all the time. See, I was thinking about that the other day. I was like, man, I have just since we started doing this, I have learned so much, like I mean, especially like in the world of White Tales, you know, just like since I've started doing this, I have learned so many things from these people that have put me in good positions to kill, to kill deer. And I haven't always killed in those positions, but I've come close several times on some pretty hard public land here, you know. And and uh we closed the deal even and man, it's uh it's been a great ride so far. So it's like you said, all the time, we do this selfishly. You just we just happened to publish it for other people, you know, kind of like chris By. We enjoy sharing our experiences anyway. Uh I appreciate you guys listening, and God bless you guys. And remember this is your element living in m