00:00:08 Speaker 1: This is me eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, boat bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You can't predict anything presented by on X Hunt creators are the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the Hunt app from the iTunes or Google play store. Nor where you stand with on X. You're honest that you hear? What do you hear? What happened to Brand's boat? No, you haven't heard this. So I'm talking to Danny, my brother, and it's our good buddy Brandt waterfowl biologists. Danny says, oh yeah, Brandon Matt Carlson are out hunting and hunting moose in my boat. And he said, you'll know what aid, I said, my boat, And so what happened to Brand's boat? Him and Danny were fishing co hos on the river and he said they're just in the worst possible spot where there's this big tree across most of the river and he said, just ripping current through there and Brands. Danny said, he's glad he was nowhere near the tiller or nowhere near the center console for this, but Brands like rafts around in front of this big overhanging tree and somehow snag something and pulls out. You know that stupid dangerous little safety feature where you pull that ripped cord you're supposed to look at your life jacket. Yeah, I think it's more. I think it's like pepper spray, bear spray. It's almost like I'm more scared of bear spray than bears, And I'm almost more scared of those things than I am, just because if it's not clipped in, then you can't run the engine, which is what I can see where the story is. Somehow, I don't understand how he somehow uh pulls that thing out. Burn engine just stops, and Danny says, he turns, and here it comes this tree brands trying to get this little thing up and back in there and ship and his boat's gone. He said. It hit like they had a bunch of all their gear, everything they had with them. Danny said he had time to jump clear that boat. Well, he said, for a minute, he said, even as it was it was filling, you could kind of control how it was flooding by how you leaned and where he put your weight, But there was no stopping it. Did he climb out onto the tree. He climbed out on the tree, Danny. So the tree is like out of the water and then has a bowl in it and goes under you know, they always do this. It's like out of the water, then it's under the water, and then it's out of the water. Dan. Anywhere he hits he's in. He's gets in the spot where he can get out on the tree and leap the area. But he said, branches hanging on with waiters. He hasn't read the Meat Eater Guide the Wilderness Skills and Survival, because if he had, even though it hasn't been released yet in order now on Amazon, he'd hear a big mouthful about putting your belt on. Danny said, those waiters just ballooning out. Am I right that? He said he had to ditch the waiters to get out of there, So he don't remember that hanging on to the tree, hanging on the tree. By this time, the boat's gone like gone like under the tree underwater. It's stuck on the tree, still engine pinned. They got a buoy. They they're gonna go back and get it once the water games. They tied a buoy to it. If that's a thing you can claim on insurance. I asked him if he tied his wrote his name on the booty or anything, you know. He said, no, this is the booty tied to it underwater, pinned. They're waiting for the water to go down and try to get there, at least get the boat and engine. Engine is gonna be He said he didn't lose anything other than like a rod or two. All of his stuff. I thought Danny said he got it all back. No, that's where he found some of it, back aties and whatnot. But I don't think he found I thought he said all they lost were like a couple of rods. I think Brandt lost three or four rods. Danny lost road. How far were they from the put in? He up, so they just flag someone down and remember how they got out of there. I remember the name of the tributary that that tributaries up aways fish this river with him quite a few times over words. I don't remember how they got out of there. I don't know if he said not quite a few a few. Man. That's how those accidents go. Man, just from like happy fish and day into all of a sudden, it's just tear. Yeah, he said, you know that. He said it took him to figure out. He said that the engine just stopped, you know, and he turns, this isn't good. So they were like already close to that tag. They just come around it and he says, real fast current and they're going up and all of a sudden, just like the last thing in the world you want to happen. Yeah, he said, you can kind of forgot about that party, saying you could kind of run around for a minute. It was like and kind of like control where the wall, you know, when he said there was no and then he said, you know, he got off to the beach and then had to try to, you know, half help try to get Brand out of the water. I meant to give Brand a call and console him a little bit, and I didn't scare him off rivers. He's out. They were out. It's a good story, though it is. I'm glad they're both safe. We were on that river one time. This is a funny story about that river. We get to the takeout and we've been up. We're going up duck hunting and he's got my brother, Brands doesn't my brother has another river boat. It's got a go devil on it, you know, like it's like an eight ft aluminum flat bottom of the air cooled. It's like a it's a it's a Briggs and Stratton golf or lawnmower engine. Right. The powers is big long shaft and we're going up in the dark. Yeah, well I explain the Go Devil because I mean it's yeah, you can run it across wet grass. It's air cooled, and it's a big stainless steel shaft that goes back. They come different lengths, but you can get them. They go back shorter ones. I think it's got about a six ft shaft on it, yeah, roughly, But they're made so that when the boat is pushed over, say a log, that shaft is at such an angle and there's I guess what, I don't know if they call it a skag two on that shaft, but that is made so that the propeller will just bounce over said log as it comes across it. You know, so you can basically, like in the South, they run them a lot, and they literally run in inches of water that's sometimes closer to mud than it is water. Yeah, And the thing about being air cooled is like anybody's ever run a normal boat motor. It's cooled by the water, Like there's an intake that sucks up river water, lake water, ocean water, and that cool water coming in it's cycled through the engine. So you have to have some water just to cool the engine. But with an air cooled engine, um, you don't need to worry about that. Then you just you're as you're holding the tiller, you're doing holding the tiller is more like three dimensional. Is that the right word. It's more three dimensional. When you're holding the tiller. You're not only controlling like side yeah, where you're Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say. You're working on two axis. Is when you hold the tiller, you're working on side side up down, so you're digging it in lifting it out. Anyhow, I remember this dakes we're going up duck hunting and it was dark, dark ish and running through and I remember holding the that tiller and hitting going through a hole that had some salmon in it. The most of I don't know what most have been real thick and you can feel them hitting that shaft coming out, like the shaft going over the tops them. But anyways, we get down after we duck hunt, same place. Get down to that takeout and there's a dude down there pretending to be the world's dumbest tourist. Boy, golly, you can fish and hunt ducks in there, Holy smokes, let me see one of them ducks, right, mm hmm. And we're just like, you know, entertaining. I'm gonna amusing him. After a point, he opens up his jacket and pulls it out and it's a badge. It was the awarding let's see your licenses ship. Yeah, yeah, you'd be like, you think that's cool. Look at this bald eagle shot, you know or whatever. I don't know. Yeah, I thought that was some shrewd game warden. In Alaska, Um, they don't. They don't. It's troopers. So so like most dates, you got cops like regular you know, state police, county sheriff, various municipal agencies. In Alaska, it's like troopers, state troopers. There are state troopers who specialize in like a wildlife division. But their troopers they're kind of they can do whatever they I mean, any game ward can kind of like you know, any game warding can make an arrest for drugs or whatever, assist and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, in Alaska, it's like troopers. There's not the The enforcement Arm isn't part of the Fishing Game Agency. The Enforcement Arm is part of the state police agency. It was a trooper. Um. Youth Duck opens for US Saturday. Mm hmm. I will be taking my kid. We shot a bunch of ski last weekend, taking him out for ducks. We'll put our blind out tomorrow, a plan on it being very low pressure. Yeah. He was telling me about how his arm was sore and a little bit bruised up from all the skeet shooting he did. But I think he was being very careful to not like over emphasize it or spent too much time on it because he doesn't want to get downgraded back to the four tents. That something would just be like, yeah, well, you know, maybe we don't have to go yet. Like he's not letting it get in the way. He's like, even though my arm hurts, I'm gonna go shoot ducks. Yeah. I can't wait. Man, Um, I feel like the ducks aren't really acting like ducks yet. I don't like the good I'll they know what hits him on a youth duck opener. No, you don't even see him flying around, right They just kind of like, Oh I saw him stacking into a cut wheat field two days ago. Yeah. I just feel like they're just kind of like laying around the pond right now. Yeah, they're definitely not as active as they're like people at the beat a month from now is what it looks like. Yeah, I curious see how that goes. Uh. Finally, no quick thing to touch on. Two things. Some guys sent in a picture. I don't think this. I think it's made the news a little bit. Like this bear running around the collar on and the bear is like famously this bear is famously tame, And apparently it's so tame that someone managed to go off to the bear and put a trump sticker on his radio collar. Really this these whoever it is, these researchers are now trying to are they're now gunning for whoever was up like basically handling bear bear. Wow, that's crazy. Like he lured I don't know, I don't know how you pull that off. He lured it in with some food, put a bumper sticker on its radio collar. Oh ship, there's a five thousand dollar reward. Spencer's got the picture right there. That had to have been like that had to have been some drinking going on. Is it a crime? Okay, harass and wildlife? Maybe must be to put a bumper sticker on a bear. I don't know who's putting out what the state? Was it North Carolina? Who's offering the reward? I don't know. I'm reading about you get another five grand if you swop it out with one of these stickers. Yeah. I just have a feeling there is no bear anywhere carrying a Biden sticker. Uh, It's it's real quick before we get started. You like you finally publicly, It's it's come to this is the last will ever discuss it? You finally published the scroll Nuts article. You an't think about something this morning? At the gym they play that stupid show at the gym where do guys like argue. They try to make up like full on make believe shipped to argue about sports on ESPN. They full on like a producer, makes up a thing to argue about. They're there for fifteen minutes. I can't I can never tell what they're saying because the volumes off. But I can like read what's on the things. Apparently for fifteen minutes they're arguing about like does something How important is it that some team wins the third game of the season series and they get dressed up in suits to talk about this, which is the weirdest thing. These guys were as the High they were the fanciest ass suits to like argue about make believe sports stuff. And here we are the reason to bring this up. Here we are talking about squirrels biting the nuts off of squirrels and we're able to pull that off a T shirts. The differences to that, like, um, this is real animosity that we have for them. It's like they're inventing, uh a side of the argument to argue, but this is real though I'm sure they assign it so like they're like, okay, you you uh you act like it doesn't really matter if they win the third game, you know, and uh you over there you'll act like it really does matter. That's what I'm saying. When the cameras are off there, they're not like continuing this argument. It's not like not like this in real life. But I it kind of made me feel like I should get a really nice suit and come down here in a really swanky suit and talk about stupid stuff. Those wardrobes I believe are provided by you know, if that's what they if you watch the credits. Yeah, this is just mean guessing, but I'm guessing that there there's probably companies that are trying to get into those spots where you know, you could provide a suit or two to the guys that do what. That explains a lot, man, because it's pretty always got different little outfits. Oh yeah, they're cute little Barbie dolls like yeah, you gotta be right. I never thought of that. That That Actually actually feel better about it anyway. So you finally put the squirrel nuts thing to rest, me saying that, me saying that I've always heard that pine squirrels bite the nuts off off the squirrels. Lots of people have heard that, and your official thing now is what they do not do that. I'll give you credit in two places here. First place I'll give you credit is that this is a common belief. I was wrong about that. Found where it came where it might step from. Ye I, I had thought that everyone believed this because Steve believed it, and then they had heard Steve say it on the podcast right, and then he thought there could all be traced to that which I might do. Sometimes I was wrong, though we got we got emails from Pennsylvania, Kentucky, Wisconsin, Montana, everywhere in between, saying that no, my uncle told me this, my neighbor told me this, my haunting mentor told me to this. So it was like a fairly common belief that this happens. And you found reference in the old book, yes, nineteen fifty six, in the Singing Wilderness. This is the oldest written source that I could track down of it. The book was inspired by Lake Superiors beauty and it had a whole chapter was the author dedicated to red squirrels. It was written by Sigurd Olsen. Are you aware that I won the Secret f Olsen Nature Writing Award? You didn't know that this is good stuff though? Actually when I wanted, I was actually taking out his I was laurel Is that a word at his? Uh? I was. I was rewarded the reward award in his old Stompergrounds. I like it, and Olson Nature Writing Award. So when I saw that article, I felt a trade, I felt a kinship, but also betrayal. The cigarettes said that secret Secret said that this was I g U r D. He had a whole chapter dedicated to red squirrels. He's kind of like an elder Leopold who never got real famous, never got as famous, And it isn't isn't in his time, you know, But isn't he He didn't kind of like hit the mark. He didn't kind of hit the afterlife jack pot quite like Leopold Fair. Sure. Yeah, So he had a whole chapter dedicated to red squirrels. And in that chapter he said, I also know that owls like them as well as Martin's and that they can throw the fear of death into the larger gray squirrels should they invade through the convenient medium of castration. Damn right. So that that was what he said. And looked. That's the oldest written source I could find. So I talked to John Kaprowski. He is the dean at the Hobb School of Environment and Natural Resources at the University of Wyoming. Prior to that, he had written three books on squirrels. He's won awards for his work on squirrels. Have those books then won the Secret off Olds and Nature Writing Award? I don't know. I don't know, man, but if there's a dude that's written three books on squirrels, we might consider having him down. Oh absolutely, yeah, yeah, I would consider him like the authorities. I wish crib was here. He just moved to the Uh he he went from the University of Arizona. We're in contact. We're in contact, right, great, I think he'd be a good resource. A footal episode that's five five. So I talked to him, and then I also talked to Jonathan O'Dell, who's a small game biologist for the Arizona Game and Fish Department, who has be a tree squirrel Grand slam holder. That's right. So not only is he passionate about squirrels enough to work with them in his job, but he's also what he thinks he also shoots them. One of the first people to have North America's squirrel slam, which is killing all eight species. Eight. That's a lie, though. You can take it up with him, well eight, what about the del Marvao squirrel? You can't hunt the um Maybe it's like the eight huntable ones. Yeah. Sure, you need to fix up his language. You need to like fix up your language, because I bet he wouldn't say that if you're a squirrel man. Okay, So I talked to those two folks. They both said, this doesn't happen. That's not a reality. They've they've like watched mating bouts. They've you know, dedicated there seen squirrels have sex a hundred times. Oh yeah, he in the wild that John Kaprowski said that he has spent tens of thousands of hours in detailed behavioral studies watching red squirrels. Red squirrels, Yes, he said, this doesn't happen. But so another place that I'll give you credit, Steve, is that there is like good reason for believing this, right, Like red squirrels are pretty feisty, um. And then it's also common to kill like impotent squirrels that are males. Uh. But what you're really seeing there is when you think you kill the squirrel that had its nuts bitten off, is that for part of the year, when they're not doing the squirrel rut, when they're not breeding, they'll absorb their testies like up into you I don't think you'd say their abdomen, but they absorb it up into their body and then that that sack shrinks Okay, So oftentimes, oftentimes do you have some male squirrels running around that don't have visible tests, and then young of the year squirrels don't usually develop their tests until their first birthday. So you'll see a lot of male squirrels in the woods that appear to not have testicles. But it's not be as they got bit off. And you think secret Olson, who oh, you know what's you know? It's pretty good, I'll tell you in our squirrel myth, you think secret Olson. Uh shoots a great squirrel, inspects it's genitalium, sees that it's missing its scroll, and says to himself, there's only one thing that could explain this. A pine squirrel also known as the red squirrel, has eaten his testicles. I would also imagine that he was not like the source of this right, like he had heard his granddad and and so on. But now we're gonna put an end to that, you know, um, you know how it's often said, you're gonna tell me, But it is often said that Boone, Daniel Boone would hunt squirrels by barking them. Are you mere with this? I'm familiar in a way that like I've seen squirrel calls. It's a shot placement strategy. Oh, like shooting next to them so as not too so it's not too damaged to meat of the squirrel. You get a squirrel plastered against a tree, and you hit the tree, you shoot the tree, right word of squirrels, make a contact with it so that he is concussed. And he was probably doing this with a musket ball, right. No, he would have had a rifle. He would have had a rifle. He would had a Kentucky rifle, but not a shotgun. No, but he would have been shooting like a rifled flint lock. Okay, Well, the feller that claims to have done that with Boom, he even says like what river they're on, and what year it was, and the Boone loved eat squirrels and love to hunt squirrels and would bark the squirrels. Later historians looked and Boone wasn't even in that state that year. So it's like, did the guy, you know, do you mess it up or just lied about was it? John Philson? I don't know. Did he mess it up? Was he just being like he had heard something and wanted to attribute it. I think there's an endless amount. It's just bullshit. Just I'm not saying it's bullshit, but we're kids. We used to take all kinds of ball bearings, wrapping up a masking tape and shoot him off our sling shots, thinking that we would create a shotgun like effect if you hit a tree near a squirrel or bird. I think there's like an endless amount of fact checking can do with stuff like Boone and Crockett and huge Glass and all those folks that it's just like it's hard to even start down that wormhole because of just like never end hm. I like it though. I'm glad that you finally put some effort into that because it made some gravy. Well, I don't know, because I still when we're talking about strange human behaviors. Rick Smith, the camera man, there are seven billion people on this planet, So am I surprised that someone did that. No, now I'm like this, you're telling me somewhere at some point in time, a red squirrels never bit squirrel. It's not common. Jonathan Jonathan O'Dell, the squirrel slam holder, did say that he's like, like the squirrels get tangled up and they'll bite each other and they'll wrestle and it gets like violent. Um, He's like, they won't intentionally go for the testicles, but there's probably been instances where they get the testicles. Yeah, but that's a good time to sneak in there and kill a whole pile of them that you see all the time on like uh, Nature's Metal and those Graham accounts where squirrels will get their nuts hung up on like feeders and fences and stuff. I'm sure they eventually ripped them off. Well. And then somebody commented on your Instagram post, Stephen, they said, well, I don't know. We uh we live in the area that you said have a lot of gray squirrels. And then red squirrels moved in and all the gray squirrels disappeared, furthering that they do actually castrate them wether than just displace them. I saw that some guys, like someone white Tails displaced Mulder. They're biting all their nuts off. I was that guy. I wrote that, Alright, alright, what we're doing now. We're in honor of, or in celebration of, the the ninth season or ninth season, which is a five pack of episodes. There's more episodes coming up soon. Um of Meat Or is out on Netflix, available for viewing now. And so every time we launched episodes, if you get like a bunch of questions, and oftentimes you get a bunch of the same questions like people watching and certain things percolate through the collective brain and then we this this time around, me went and solicited those questions, and then we commissioned uh Spencer here to come in and ask those questions and to answer the questions. We have people who are very very close who were all present for all production. Seth, you didn't miss any of did your south? Nope? Not last year? I was there, Seth. Do you now that I have my own flashing beam? Um? Oh? When I gave Travis Barton the welder, Uh, this is the first fleshing beam he's stand he's ever worked on. He does a lot of decorative stuff. You gave him my stand. He wanted to see your stand to replicate it for my flashing beam. What do you think? Uh? You know how you're how the tensioner on your adjustable part. I told him to turn that into a hand crank so he didn't need to get out of Heck's head. Wrench to do it. That's a good idea. But then he thought, what if that bolt has sentimental value? So he's producing a whole new t bolt with a T grip on it, and you'll still have the sentimental bolt on your thing. It's not sentimental at all. Now I'm gonna have my own beam, and Seth's gonna mentor me. Yeah, what's the origin here? Beam? Did you make it? His old man made it? No, my old someone made My old man had it made by. I don't remember who. Someone actually might have been my buddy, Rusty Fetzer, his dad might have done it. I don't remember who welded up the stand. I think it was my buddy's dad. You know what. Travis Barton thinks that that he used in the construction of that stand. He thinks there's like a hex shaped daft. Yeah. He thinks that that's off an old chisel might be. Yeah, I don't remember who well did it. He also thinks it's very dirty. Oh it's covered and fat and blood, yeah, he comments. He commented on, well he might catch from that thing. I don't clean it. Yeah, okay, so where were we? Oh? Yeah, are you like happier intimidated. I'm getting into beaver fleshing, while I'm not intimidated yet because I still have to teach you how to do it. But it's it's good because, uh, you know what, how maybe as we catch thirty or that's daunting when he got thirty the freezer. So it's nice to know that you could do half of them, you know. And there's a part of a mentor mentee and the sort of trajectory of a mentor mentee relationship. Uh, there's sort of like a playbook of how those relationships work. There comes apart in the mentor mentee relationship when the mentee me yeah, actually turns against the mentor. Boy. It's just it's just like a thing that happens. And there's that study this, you can study this. Where where are we at in that relations I thought you were gonna say, where the mentee gets better and starts teaching the mentor stuff. No, he becomes like dismissive of probably like some kind of psychology about like they don't like to behold they don't like to feel beholden. So then they need to get to a point where they like they have like outshined or yeah, there's a part of that. There's a part where we will turn against one another. There's probably flashing different areas of the office. Yeah, from like seth perspective, Seth would be like, I taught him everything he knows, and now he acts like he came up with it. But no, no, no, Seith is saying I taught him everything he knows, but I didn't teach him everything I know. So he's gonna he's gonna hold back now, knowing that you're to turn on him. Stead if you go ahead, I was gonna saying, I'll keep some real hot tips that I won't share with you. He's gonna teach me his like signature stroke, and I'm gonna tell people that I made up that stree. The only problem is he went with you. You went with a different fleshing. Also, I went with an assable. Yeah, well I have to see how that is. I'm Seth. Seth uses the famous um Necker. Yeah, but I've been here. I was reading on little comments sections about the Necker ain't all that anymore. Maybe maybe it's not. I bought an assable made by it's made by like Dexter. Those fell has been in the beaver process and business for about a couple hundred years. Maybe they got something going on. I don't know. A question you get up in the morning. I got a question for Seth. You get up in This from a listener. This is from NIE's brain. You didn't do any heavy party and it's just a regular old morning. You get yourself a cup of coffee and you got your mindset on fleshing of beaver. Used to put on your apron and everything's there. I'll point out that this never happens. How many never ever happens. What's what's the length of time to take you just to knock one out? Very much heavily depends on the size. A big beaver takes a shipload of time. Like how much time I think I did the last time I kept track, I did one big beaver per hour on the board. That's like flesh and put on the board. Those guys in Minnesota that we're going to hang out, you know those guys in Minnesota we're going to hang out with this year? He says, it's uh. I think he says ten ten and ten tend to skin, tend to flesh, tend to get it on the board. Thirty minutes start to finish. I don't know about this adventure. They're just cutting me out of It's a dude I met in Uh, what's the hell's that town name? Some towns way up in northern Minnesota where guys that trap a lot of beavers. But Midge, they got the number one Ducks Unlimited College Chapter. Way the hell up in Midge. I met those kids and they gave me a Duck's Unlimited College Chapter hoodie up. Anyways, I met him. He's this guy likes Joe Beaver. It's not his name. His name is Mike. Actually, this guy's name is Joe Beaver, and I want to go out there. One of my problems so with with speed on flashing right now is my knife is dull and he won't let me sharpen it. Well, I'm afraid, yeah, especially how interested do you think people are in this conversation? I think fairly interested. Yeah. I don't want to war, especially since you like stretches beyond the podcast, right, there's videos of you guys fleshing Instagram posts. The problem with yonis questions. Seth never has waked, woken up and flashed the beaver. I've gotten that before he flashes beaver at night if you can jolim, if you could jol him. He likes to flash a round around five or six o'clock. I shoot my rifles in the morning, flushed the beavers in the evening. That's how it goes. He kind of gets in the mood mid afternoon, late afternoon. Sometimes. I was gonna say I was seeing him here in the office all times of the day. Well, mostly because I'll get the beavers out in the morning, let him fall, and then by evening they're ready to flash. That's a good explanation. So that's how that works. All right. Let's do a season nine question. First question, what was the full conversation like between Jesse and j T arguing over keeping that tanker redfish? Yehny, we showed it. I think we did a really good job of of of showing what it was that there wasn't much more to it at U. You know. JT is kind of like, yeah, you know, usually allowed him go, but if you want to keep it, please do. Jesse's like, yeah I do, and JT stuck a knife across its gills and now was the end of it. Yeah, I think that JT Uh, he's torn. JT. Van's he's torn like he's in different directions because he's a guide, so he wants you to have fun. He No, he recognizes that it's a good fishery that's well managed. But he's cognizant of not being abusive of that. And I think that that he lets far more gold than he keeps. He's leery of keeping him, killing him and throwing him in the cooper just for the sake of doing that. You know. Yeah, it's not something he promotes. Yeah, but when it's you know, I think that he he gets on board with keeping a fish. Um, if he knows that it's going to be treated well, respectfully and consumed quickly, then I think it makes him feel better. If you said, what I want to do is get it and then freeze it and then put in my freezer and then wait a year and then throw it out because it's freezer burned, I think the Jesse or I think the JT would be very, very not cool about it. All right, I know it wasn't JT style, but did you all consider wade fishing when you did the episode in Rockport? That is not not JTS style. You're saying it is JT style. He does like to do that, and I have done that with him. It wasn't warm while we were down there, so that probably played into it. But no, he'll get out and chase him on foot. If you want to have a hell of I don't have you seen that if people have seen his show, If you want to have a hell of a good day of fishing, go book what's he calls outfit. It's like JT. Van's Aunt Rockport, Texas. Yeah, I don't know if he has like a name of the outfit or it does either JT. Van's Aunt Rockport, Texas, Red Fish and Sea Trout. I would suggest going when he says you ought to go, because I've gone. When he says you I've gone, what he says is, you know, he guides all the damn time he takes Like I think he's like just one month a year or something. He doesn't guide, but he'll kind of tell you like we've gone out. When he was when he said, you know, we will find fish, but it's not like the best time of year. And then he went out when he said this is the time to go, and holy cow man, JT. Vans and dot com. That's where you can find them book trips. Were you there when it was supposed to be good? Dude, you have never seen fish like what we saw when we were filming that episode. I've never seen fish like that. We one time, we weren't even really filming anymore. Man. We're like kind of like got our most, We put some of it in. We kind of got everything we wanted to do done. We're heading out one day and like the wind it switched or something, and there's like this channel. He guys, this real flat stuff. It's just like channels and flats and you know, how do you describe it? Very intercoastal, Yeah, intercoastal like estuary type water. You know that's uh sandy, you know, shallow lots of grass poking up everywhere here and there, and just little braids and channels and islands and uh maze like I mean, you could get lost in there and a in a heartbeat and it opens up into little bays and you know, stuff that if you don't know how to get out of it, and then then the water drops out of the tide. Boy, you could be there for the tide cycle. And this dude knows like what the fish are doing. Man and heat. We're kind of done for day and heading out, and the wind had switched and so it's blowing water. I was like blowing water into these channels because it feels like to find current and the current can come from a variety of ways, like tide, wind, whatever. And we get into the spot and we pull over, and it was like, I'm not it was just every cast. I won't it was every cast, But to this point I actually had more fish than cast. At one point I was at eleven fish and ten casts because one of the times I has had my I took the fish off and had my grub in the water and a redfish grabbed it, so that put me eleven fish tent casts. I've never seen anything like it, man Like, And then you're out there with him and you think, you think, like, holy cow, this place is full of fish. But I think he's probably quite plausible that you go down and round a boat and not get ship either. Yeah, but he just knows, like what's going on, and this little spot right here right now, like or later in the day, this little spot, or they're not in this little spot, which must mean they're in this little spot, and it gives you the illusion that, like any moron could go in there and catch a bunch of fish. Right on the next episode, when you were chasing Neil guy and the guy told you to shoot again, did it go against your beliefs and that he thought and that he doubted that you had great shot placement the first time? Did you feel obligated to shoot again when he told you to No, but you're like, you're highly um impressionable in moments like that, and and uh so I think that same question pointed out like that you were. There's two So we had multiple guided trips in this episode. So we were guided by JT. Van's aunt. We were guided on that Neil guide deal and the Neil Gut deal was were like kind of like we we sort of through social connections New a Um. Social connections had a connection to to a ranch and the ranch does allow some guided hunting on there. And the guy that owns the place is like, coming out to hunt, I'd prefer that one of our guys when out and accompanied you guys. He knows what's up. Um. The guy was totally cool. The guy was not like obstructionists at all, very knowledgeable and those nil guy are famous for not dying when shot. And you have really thick, thick brush. It's like you get up high on something. It's just like this like eight, I don't know how tall. Just this very thick brush extends for you know, miles and miles and miles. And that guy was saying, you hit them wrong and they make it in there. He goes, once they get into that brush, I get a sinking feeling. They he's like they he reiterated, they don't bleed. Well, they have a very thick hide. Um. He just was paranoid about losing them. Yeah, I believe you even shot the heart. I shot the top of the heart right off and there was almost no blood. And this thing, dude, it got up and ran like so he so he had already set it up that like very very knowledgeable dude. He had already set it up like listen, man, these things getting the brush and they vanish. Yeah, he said, multiple times, shoot until you can't that you're either down or they're in the brush. Yeah. And he said you go and look and you don't find blood. He goes, I just like, you know, we do everything we can do. But he said, it's just so when he said do that, no, I didn't. I mean I was he was there. He was there to be helpful and was helpful and was totally cool. So he had no regrets about pumping two in him. No, plus things huge. I mean, I think if you were out hunting pronghorn or something and and you can see every which way for a million miles and you're hunting an animal that's famous for like not taking a hit very well, then I would have not done it. But when you got a guy to know he's devoted his life to the whole thing, and the guy says, shoot, I think he probably ought to shoot. Right. Do Steve write a journal day to day to narrate the show or does he just watch the footage and write something up after Ni keeps a journal just yanni ye sometimes uh seth helps, But yeah, during every day, we sort we keep a log that has just the major happenings of the day and what time that they happened. So that is sort of like a journal, so you kind of know what went down in the day. And then if there's something that happens, like an interesting conversation or a moment, let's just saying no, guy gets shot. You know, you write down that that twelve oh five, no guy got shot, and then there was a butt drink scene afterwards, and so on and so forth. Um, and also you you take note of conversations and whatnot even yeah, for sure, no especially good ones, you know, and because those are the ones that go really well when then we turn those notes into a document called producer notes, which we hand off to the editors. And it's sort of like a roadmap for the editors because they watched the footage. And even though you think as much as we roll that they would be able to watch the footage and have a great idea of what happened, but it's just not that way. I mean, what they see, as you know, of what actually happened, and so they need sort of like a roadmap and an outline to understand what went down over the course of a shoot is that it has always been or did it evolve to become this? No, I was trained to do that. In terms of the vo writing when the editor, so the editor gets it, we usually have a conversation yanio, layout, what's up. An editor still has a lot of freedom to kind of find what they want to find in there, but then the editor put in something called scratch v O because they sort of need to like create a bed for VO that doesn't mess up the pacing. And so by the time I write the actual v O, UM, you're typically aware of like what kind of chunk of time, what kind of chunk of time you're filling there and UM, And then it goes like through a thing called there's a we do a process that has a rough cut in the fine cut. But I'm usually like when it comes to actually like writing the stuff, I'm usually filling in UM, writing over the top of something that the editor knows ought to be addressed, and that's how that process goes. I'm actually curious on what you use for bags that you keep meeting when you when it's in your pack. Also, do you just put your backpack in the washing machine to get the blood out. I'll take the blood out. No, Yani'll take the blood out one because he's he's got a whole thing. Okay, I'll take the bag one. When we take an animal part in the field, UM, we use breathable game bags. So when a quarter, you know, a leg, backstrap, ribs, slab boned out meat, whatever it generally goes generally speaking, goes directly from the carcass to a bag, unless there's a nice nless there's no bugs around, and there's a nice place to hang it while you work. You know, you might have a little stop sticking off a tree and you can hang a quarter on there and let it do its thing and drink. Sometimes will make like a almost like a trellis, you know, out of some fallen logs and let it out because it is nice for this reason that to let some of the blood either drain off of it if it is super bloody, or even til the meat just kind of get like that air dry crust on it, you know, and before you put into the game bag. Yeah, that that's not And if it's the wintertime, you know, there's usually always a way to do it. Sometimes you're in a place where everything's just grubby and sandy, like when we're hunting orcx this here in New Mexico, there have been like no, I mean, it's just dust and sand and bugs, and it just goes into a breathable bag. I used to use the type of bag A lot of people use them. I think they're just inexpensive. It looks like cheese cloth called Alaska game bags. I think there's various companies that make them. But the thing the bottom is that the flies can lay eggs through the fabric ah and some dirt passes through them. But they're inexpensive and they're disposable. But now um we use them reusable, flyproof breathable bags. You might think of it as sort of a very lightweight souped up pillow case with a draw string on. It goes into those and then I keep in my pack at all times. I buy contractor bags by the box, so fifty or whatever, and I just keep a contractor bag in my bag, and the bottom of the very bottom of my backpack is always a contractor bag, which can be used for setting stuff on. You can make a poncho out of it, whatever. But when I put it in my pack, I lined my pack with the contractor bag, put the game bag in there, and then you don't want to leave it in there for you know, days on end, but for a couple hour hike or whatever. That's what I do, because I just get so sick cleaning my damn backpack all the time, So I line it with a contractor bag and then I get where I'm going, I promptly take the breathable game bag because that that's not breathable. Take the breathable game bag back out if one does get blooded over the pack, which is inevitable. Yeah. Well, and there's another system to which I use this year packing something some of my bull off the hill in Colorado and I ended up is using the Stone Glacier load cell, which it took me a while to understand that that's literally what it's meant for. It's it's basically their version of a game bag that but it fits perfectly in that on that load shelf right, you know we're talking about the actual bag. Yeah, like I used to even in the beginning, said load cell, I said shelf I got her cell. Yeah, And it basically looks like almost like a like a roll top drive bags. It's got a roll top on it, but it's not meant to be a waterproof bag, doesn't have tape, seems um, it's so that if blood is still coming out of your meat, it's meant to be able to leak out and for air to go you know, through the fabric. But it's like it's just the perfect shape that when you pack it full. It's plenty of meat to carry. It's gonna be heavy. I mean, you're gonna have sixty pounds of meat if you fill it to the brand, maybe more, but it just fits in that load shelf just perfectly. And you can also put the contractor bag with the game bag inside of it in that load shelf too, but they're The load sell off itself is coated in like this waterproof fabric, and then the fabric that's on the the backpacks inside that faces your back on the outside is also waterproof. So any blood that goes towards the backpack doesn't go through, it doesn't get to your gear, it doesn't really soak in. Sometimes the edges will get some blood. That happened to us in Colorado, and I think as long as you get to it, like the day over the next day, all I did was had like a bowl of soapy, warm water, and I found a scrub brush under the kitchen sink where we were staying, and I put ten minutes of elbow grease into it and then hit it with the hose and my pack was clean. If it was super soaked, I guess you could take it off and run it through the through the wash, but I ain't. The key is to get it to it quickly. Now I have also in the past which works Preace slack is. I think what you were talking about earlier is used hydrogen peroxide to cause the blood to kind of foam and bubble up, and then you just basically dumped that on their scrub it rints it off, dumps him on there, scrub it rints it off, and that'll help pull blood out of fabric. You know, it's interesting. We when we were caribou hunting this year, my boy got a one of those red legged flies in his against his ear drum. It was making him nauseous. I just flew in there. Yeah, it was like affecting his balance, making him nauseous. And uh, put hydrogen peroxide in their holy ship that thing come out of there in a hurry, like bubble him right out. Nice? Did he? Did your son know what was going on? WHOA? He didn't like it one bit. You just haven't have some peroxide, which we were at we're boning out me back at the bush pilot strip and a woman there. It was like I came running in with him and I was gonna try to get it out with water, and she's like, no hydrop prooxide in there, and one drop of that ship in that bug was out of there, you know, bubbled. That's a hot dislodge them in a hurry. Man. Was there panic from father and son there or just son? No? I don't wuldt to say panic. I mean I didn't think that we were going to never get it out of there. I was eager to get it out of there before we leave the subjects. Be careful with hydroen peroxide because I think you can leave it on fabrics too long. They could actually start to eat away. It's hard on the stitching at your fabric. Yeah. Um. The thing I found two is people think they got their pack clean and they didn't because you lay it out in sun and you're packed up smelling inn a minute rains. It's like you didn't get that clean and that's a bad smell. Man. Yeah. No, Stone Glaciers got a there's they have a real nice tutorial video. Um, if you need to know how to clean it back. Well, I notice you guys are only running one clip off your binys instead of one on each side. Damn straight, what's the reason for that? Paul Lewis, thanks for goofy for doing that. Oh he does. He's way wrong. Explain to me better what this listener is referring to do. Okay, I use everyone, I everyone I hang out with the like, this's the best one out there is there's a In the old days, just were your binoculars around your neck, okay, And then came the days of the then came, oh, we used to do vinyls around your neck. Then you go to the drug store and get surgical tubing and run surgical tubing around your back and clip it into the connection point where the vinyl harness where the where the next strap is, so that when you're creeping up on a deer or whatever you're those surgical tubing keeps your binyls from bouncing around. A little innovators over there at the renella, Well, no, we stild the idea, and we would also put a prussick. You'd have that surgical tubing tie into a piece of para cord and it would be like a little prussick not around that parachoid, so as you took layers on and off, you could SnCH up and down. We kind of stole that idea. Somehow, then came the vinal harness. No you forgetting, you're forgetting the uh, the elastic banned harness that everybody ran. Pair of suspenders, Yeah yeah, what was that company that first made those? I had one of those things, but yeah, I think it was. I mean everybody made him. Eventually louip Old would have one Bella's at him. But yeah, and they were better than just running the neck strap with the circle tubing. And then came I want to quick talk about the custom but I got sick of that back before I had a binal harns. I got sick of that feeling on my neck. I took an old pair of neoprene waiters and caught a very healthy chunk of neoprene and made a custom next strap so that I had neoprene waiter material. Then I stitched in my nylon webbing into that, and that was comfortable, very calm. And then I had the surgical tubing thing. But then then came the suspenders, whatever the hell they call those. I think a lot of hunters are still stuck on that evolution. Oh yeah, there's still these guys that much prefer the suspenders. I saw a bunch of dudes this weekend where them. Yeah, I think they the one. I think the thing that they have is that there is no lead and so they're there. They are more accessible, right if you're if you're hot in on a stock, you know, but as soon as the dust kicks up and it starts to rain or snow, man, I can't see anything through you. But there you go to climb over a barbed wire fence and it gets hung up because they still flop around. They do flop. But if you're out there mixing it up and stuff, just get a harness. Yeah, by it's like a little pouch. Is a little pouch we've got like I use them. Our camera guys like them so much. They started using bino pouches just to keep their gear in and then they started running around even in cities working on other projects. Like Mo would be in some restaurant film and no Reservations or parts unknown with a binal harness on. What is camera gear in it? FHF now makes a chest rig and the camera guys like those because you can fit oh manner garbage and a camera in it. Like when Mo Faulon discovered when he goes I can't believe I'm going through my whole life wasting that piece of real estate on my chest like it hasn't done me any good. Now it's like my storage area. But if you have a biny harness and don't uh clip them in, you'll be like nice Janice was jumping over a creek one time and his binos fell out of his binal harn us and they weren't clicked in. They weren't, No, because I was using a less thought out of lower quality, was using a magnet kind. No, it had to clip in the front. I'm not going to mention the brand, but there was no tether option at all. I couldn't even tell if you wanted to know. It was just a clip in the front. And now was the other thing. So you had to have that thing clipped. Remember those things they fell out twice, fell out into a rage and crick hunting bears and we looked and looked, and the best we can tell, they're in the ocean. It was it was a rag er man. Yeah, feeling around in the any little pools down below them. I mean, you could jump this thing almost and we're like palming around you feeling around in little pools, and then you go to the next pool and feel around and be like, what's gotta be in the next pool and the next pool and feel around. It's just why it was just wide enough and raging enough that we took our packs off and threw them across, and then like you know, people would kind of stand on the far side when you jump to grab your arm and pull you over. But it was raged enough that had you just cannonballed into it, you would have gone for a ride for sure. Him had he clipped in clipping one side it hangs. The way they're clipped in on an FHF system is coming off the shoulder straps to go up and over your shoulder into those um into like the adjustment section. There's a very thin but strong piece of um I don't know, webbing, webbing that's connected to a small clip and there's one on each side and then the you know, mail into that. I think it's male on your shoulder strap and the female end you attached to the binoculars themselves, and so binoculars have two attachment points. The harness has two attachment points and you clip them in. We do one for a bunch of reasons. One I usually think of is that there's often times when you want to share your binoculars with someone and instead of unclipped in two, you just unclipped one. Pass them over. But that seems like something unique to you, guys. It's how often are you out with something? The reason that does not by I'm gonna beat Paul Lewis his ass. So there's two a monitor, there's two a monitor. I don't care what kind of stuff they taught him in the cops. I'll take them. There's two amounting because like yeah, and he said, people are like, well, they must need too because there's two sides of the binoculars. But I always put my binoculars on a tripod. My kids always like, give me a bonocutors, give me a bocutors. Why go at clip clip It's only meant to keep you from losing it. But I feel like the sharing of binnaculars is something that's like sort of unique to when you're with cameramen that don't have binos, or when you and putting them on my tripod, I just don't need to do too. And when it is hanging there, I kind offer I like how it hangs. Is is there a preferred side, like if you're left handed hand right handed, right hand side. I would never do it on the left side. And all three of you were like this, I can't. I used to be, but I went back to two, you know, just because I like it better. I like when they're hanging a couple of times. You know, if you don't um, if you don't like button up your harness, you bend over. They could they can fall out. And if they're clipped on the right side, you know, they fall out and they just be clipped one and they do like the old swing around just when they fall out. Does that to you? Yeah, when they fall out, get hurt. When they fall out and there's two, they just pops out and they're still hanging right there. What's the next question? I thought that was a silly question, But I mean I like that. I don't mind unsnapping the two little clips and put them on my tripod. I go so far as to get rid of the other clip. I take it off the bno and I thread it out of the harness and put it in a place where I put all of them. Yeah, I have a nice drawer left cabinet all those things are sitting there. I had a little collection. I don't know, I should just take them back to f HF set when you were hunting in Wyoming? What hat was Janice wearing? I believe they must be talking about my stormy chromer. It's a good story about this stormy chromer. There is the game world. Yeah, well that was the one prior to that. But yeah, it's a stormy chromer. It's a I don't know something. Yeah, it's a Michigan hat. You see a lot of ranchers wearing a lot of the ranches where like the more like wooly version, which has like much deeper ear flaps that come all the way down. It kind of covers the nape of your neck. But yeah, I like it. It's made out of wool, it's uh warm, it's gotta like it's got a short brim, so I don't really get getting the way when I'm wanting to shoot my man. You really like that hat? Yeah, I've had a couple, but the first one I had one time, I was I think I saw the game one pulled over, so I pulled in behind him just the chat. See if I could work out some you know, game location info out of him, and he, uh, I must have. I was wearing the hat and he said, you know that next season you might want to get a new chromer because that one ain't quite a Hunter's Orange anymore. Um, but I mean it was five six years old, you know, and I think just being a dyed wool fabric, you know, it's Colorado's son. Beats it up and I'll point out that I don't let it just ride around on my dashboard. I looked it up and they are out of Michigan and their tagline is the original winter Cap. Don't about that. Beaver was the original winter cap? Alright. Someone says, I need to know what the detachable tripod gun mount was on the Wyoming Hunt Spartan. That's good bipod mount, very good bipod mountain. What how it works? Is that you in the old days, you'd get uh, the count the springs on them. Yeah, you want to mention the company's name. They make a great product. Harris Harris. I used to have those. Man, you get into it like an alder choked hell hole. Though those springs they are prone to some snagging. They're not good for thick brush anyways, and they're very stable though, and you'd like but stay. You put it on here and it's on there. The bipod for the most part, you know, you don't like take it out and off throughout the day. But the spartan bipod is like a very nice, good bipod. And what you do is you put like this attachment on the forearm and your firearm, and then you replace your front swivel study. Yeah. So the thing you use, like that little screw stud that you use to put your sling on, you take that out screw in the attachment point for the bipod, and then that plate, that attachment plate has another hole that you that accommodate your sling. Then you carry in your pocket and a holster in your pack or whatever. The bipod prongs and it's a magnetic fitting. It's very satisfying. No, it cas like like a imagine like a suction with flip at the end, not like that, not like it's like that's it. That's it almost too moist. Does he go with you on every hunt? Yeah? Well no, something just depends anything dry, open anything, any kind of open country stuff. Yeah, but I mean, if I was sitting you know, out of hunting in a deer blind. I don't imagine I would. Yeah, if I think there's gonna be shots over two yards, then I will definitely have it with me. They make a thing where you can put it on a tripod too, so you know, you can be standing. You don't always have to be prone. You can clip it into a tripod and be standing or whatever. It's a very nice product. Oh and you can do that with any tripod head like they just have like a quarter twenty attachment that. Yeah, it's I think it's called the dev Ross head or something. It's made for going on tripods and they make their own tripod. But you gotta have the whole head. It's just the head, it's not it's very simple, small little head that you can screw onto like Gordy to look into that. Alright, Why do you use zip ties instead of electrical tape to attach your tag to an animal? I have no idea. I have no idea. I've had great luck with them. I carry zip ties in my kit until that was like part of the episode. That's not what happened. It wasn't a zip TIESE know, it is what happened. Yeah, Like would have that happened if you had electrically came here of the details. No, that deer took a tumble when we were trying to do it. Yeah, kind of slid down the hill. I feel like the zip tie failed. That's right. The zip type broke off. It was a real steep slope and instead of like dragging the deer, the deer kind of was. It was one of those situations where instead of dragging deer, the deer is dragging you. Like once you got it out of its final resting place. Um, it was just going snow covered, very steep, icy hillside and I think and I and it slipped out of my hand. Yeah, and it slid down the hill a little bit through something in a rock or something busted the zip tie. And then we looked and looked for it in the dark and then came back and I was gonna, you know, I was gonna kind I was like figuring out, we're gonna try to contact Fishing Game. It had been validated, so we're like making a plan on how to contact the Fishing Game agency and say we have an untaked years He's like simply lost the tag and then went back in the daylight and scoured around and found the tag. But yeah, no real reason why, And that didn't change your mind either, Like you'll still be carrying zip ties this year. It wasn't until this gentleman, I'm assuming as a gentleman. There wasn't till this gentleman flagged in my head that I realized that I finally put it together that that might be better to use electric tape. Yeah, it's a tough one. I don't carry both usually in my little kit that you know that rides in my backpack along with me all the time. But I I just feel my head right now that I'd have more uses for the three or four zip ties that I usually pack in there than I would if I had a little mini roller electrical tape. I usually have a little mini roll of duct tape in there, which I could use keep it rapped around my cigarette lighters. Some states tags though, if you put tape on the would totally destroy them. Yeah, that's kind of the other thing about this. Yeah, when you go to peel the tape off, you're gonna screw your thing up, Especially now that more and more states are going where you print your tags at home. You're not gonna duct, take that on there and take it off again. You gotta put into a little baggy and then duct and then yeah, I have I've used everything from paracord tie it down there, taped it on their med tape, duct tape, black tape, zip ties. I don't know. It seems like a lot of tags actually have two holes that are just the right size to slip that change zip tie or paracord punched four zip tie. Um. I usually use a big pin when I live in Pennsylvania. You put the tag through the pin and then stick it through the ear like a safety pin, like a big safety pin. Bucks and does yeah, yeah, See for us, it's usually not a problem because if we if we butcher in the field, I mean, I usually forgot. That's my reason why I usually don't attach anything because legally you don't have to attach it until you're moving the carcass, and so usually everything's chopped up in quota and we usually find if you need to have evidence of sex, we find the bag that has a testy in it and then attached the tag to it inside the bag. Close the bag. You know. That's another argument for zip ties is on Antler. This game I zip tie my tag to the gambrel to the Achilles tendon of the animal. I think a lot of states should take to learn a lesson from Alaska. Alaska doesn't except for metal locking tags, which you need non residents need you validate your tag and keep it on your person. They don't make you go through the sort of like it seems silly that you need to fasten it to the thing. Anyways, if it's with the person who has the thing in their possession, why can't they just keep it all nice and clean in their pocket. Well, I think that, Yeah, what we're talking about here in five years is probably gonna be pretty archaic because pretty soon at all be on your phone. Has the crew ever thought about using drones to scout for deer? We talked about all the time, but it's becoming increasingly illegal. But we do talk about, Like the day we're having this conversation hunting moose and real thick willows, and I was like, man, no wonder Alaska made drones illegal because imagine you can fly drone up and find all the moose. And our camera guy was like, I think that, Like the resident just he I think that seems like and He does a lot of drone work for all all kinds of reasons, different kind of stuff from like real estate stuff to wildlife stuff. But um, he's like the resolution in the use that he goes. It just doesn't really work that way. I don't know that. I believe that it doesn't work that way, because there are cases of people finding elk and moose and stuff with drones, but it's it's illegal in twenty some states. Now. He's crazy to think that wouldn't work. Imagine antelope on that countryside and you fly that thing up and do a three sixty pan. You don't think you'd see the herd of twenty out a half mile. I should argue with them. I guess it all depends some of those like a lot of those when you're shooting like landscapes with the drone, A lot of those lenses are real wide, so when you look straight down, it's just like you don't know what you're looking at. You know, the animals are if you're hot, if you're too like, if you're I guess if you're low enough, you could see them, but at that point they're going to hear the thing. But the question was has have was have we ever done it? Have you ever thought about doing it? We've definitely talked about how it's illegal and if it ought to be, and how helpful would it be anyway, and in what cases have they been abused? So beyond thinking about it, we've like spent quite a bit of time discussing this subject. All of the states that the states that banned drones are the states where drones would actually be helpful open like places with a lot of open country. And we we never fly drones on hunt days. Yeah, like when we're out shooting these shows. All our drone stuff is like days that we're not going for that reason, just so there's never any confusion. Yeah, there's no regulations about flying a drone, like for say in Mexico, but there's no way you're gonna find like a couzier with a drone. I don't care, you're not gonna find one. Do you ever use tracking dogs to find injured game? I have not used a dog that is trained and kept for the sole purpose of finding game in order to find game. I'm not either, but I think I feel like we're gonna be seeing more and more of that. And I actually have a guy offered me one who lives near where we're hunting in Wisconsin and November and he has a drawer, or however you say those fancy dogs from Germany and uh so, yeah, we have a bad hit, then we'll try it out. Why didn't you try tracking your Colorado bull that night? Because the best hope was that the bull would lay down. And when you get a hit on something and you don't hear it like crash down and die or watch it crash down and die, um, you don't want to pressure it because if it is injured and runs off aways and it's not being pursued, your hope is that it lays down and dies. Once you get a sense that something is not immediately mortally wounded and you start pursuing it, you will be bumping it out of its bed. And if you bump it out of its bed and scare it, it will cover a distance in minutes that it might otherwise cover in many hours, And if it's not bleeding sufficiently to follow its progress, you will lose it while it's hauling ass away from you. When if it just lays down and dies, you have a good chance a better chance of finding it because you're at least in the right area and you haven't sent it off into the next county. So following it that once you get down and take a look and he's like, this isn't gonna go. Well, don't pressure it. Give it time regardless, you shouldn't really pursue anything for an hour mm hmm. And I wasn't there. You were there with I don't know two three guys with you. But um, what you gotta remember too, is that trail blood trailing, man, it is mentally and physically exhausting. If you're like really on a hard blood trail, two or three hours of that, I've seen it, man, people just start falling apart because you're just not used to putting that sort of effort with you. I don't know if it's your eyes and having to stare like that and look and the emotions that you're going through. But it's a lot of work. And so you know, you shot him towards the evening and you guys spent I'm guessing a couple three hours on it and then decided to bail. It means a smart move to do, because, like you're saying, you want to let him rest, but you get some rests to yourself, and then in the morning you're nice and fresh, and all of a sudden, those pin drops that you might have missed at night under a head lamp. The next morning you can see him and find them, and you know, we spent a few hours, but we didn't move a hundred yards. Yeah, it was because there's and there's also like all these little indicators you get. There's little indicators you get when you're on something that's got a bad hit where you either see things, either reconstruct things and realize that like, oh no, we're in good shape. It's gonna die, or you start putting the pieces of the puzzle together and you start getting a sense that it wasn't immortal um that is not mortally wounded, or there's a good strong likelihood that it's not mortally wounded. And that would go by kind of like how the blood, how much blood, the patterns that the blood falls, the coloration of the blood, what we might what might be with blood. Does the blood fall on its own or does it only get brushed off when it brushes against branches. When it brushes against branches, how high on the branch or low on the branch, is the blood, does it look oxygenated, does it have little chunks of muscle in it? What's the coloration of the hair where the hit was on the ground, what what were the sort of mannerisms or the movements of the animal post hit? And you get a sense that like yeah or nay. Mean, sometimes you'll see something you know might get hit by a bow and you'll start you go, poke your nose in there down the ten yards down the trail, and it looked like someone had two cans of red spray paint going through the woods, going out each side. And then I'm not too worried about everybody hanging around for three hours waiting, because you just know what's gonna be waiting for you. There. You've got something that's punched through both lungs and every time it's heartbeats, it's shooting out of its shooting out alands of blood out of each side. And then you're like, let's go. Someone else wants to know. Aren't you afraid that scavengers or insects will damage the carcass when you leave an animal? Ay like that? Absolutely not. Insects just rot from heat, just they got all the guts in them. That stuff generates a ton of heat, generates heat, like even when they're dead, they got so much that's like big guts of launch wet lawn trimmings in their stomachs. It just creates heat. They rot. The first place they rot is around the ball joints on their back hams and just spreads from there. Yeah. Man, and then and then not so much bugs right away, but but uh, bears, coyotes. Yeah, it's all everything, all this stuff. Man, it's hard. It can't be all like rigid about it. It's like all this stuff is like, well, there's this, but then there's that. Well there's this, but then there's that. There's this, but then there's that, and then you factor it out and try to make a call. It's never like I know exactly what needs to be done, boys, it's more like that. That's kind of what it sounds like. Someone writes, I want to hear you discuss the efficiency and ethics around using bows and muzzle loaders. Efficacy is over because you can't shoot them as far and they're less forgiving. So but efficacy efficacy is a hard thing to talk about because there's like I don't know, I guess like a rocket propelled grenade would have tremendous efficacy. You probably get like there's probably like military weapons, I suppose, like very very high caliber. I don't know, like truck mounted machine I don't know. There's like ways to get efficacy that borders over into a UM borders over into an overkill situation, or the efficacy is so high that not many people will be able to have the opportunity to go try hunting. Yeah, too many people are too good, and if everybody's filling their tags, then a lot less people are gonna get the opportunity to go hunting. Someone could say there's great efficacy and being able to use UM night vision high powered rifle. With night vision, you can get up, get close, they don't know you're there. You get great clean shot placement, great efficacy. We should allow people to hunt at night with night vision because it's better efficacy. UM. You know, at a point, you have a finite resource, and the ability to the ability for a bunch of people to go hunting relies on the fact that not everybody's gonna get one. It feels like you just answered this, but somebody asks, why doesn't Colorado let you use a scope? On your muzzle loader for that elk season. They're just trying to I think my guests, they're trying to widen the gulf. They're trying to widen the gulf between firearm and muzzle loader. Yeah. I mean they're trying to keep it a primitive weapon him, which is why muzzleloaders seasons were came out in the first place. I believe it's like they're a little bit better than a bow, but they're not a modern firearm. Right. It gives you a chance to have more seasons more. It's like you're creating opportunity. Someone else says after your Colorado hunt, are you still an advocate for muzzleloaders or are you less likely to support them? I have absolutely no problem with muzzloaders. Um, I have no problem with muzzleloader seasons. I actually appreciate, as much as it didn't work out for me, I appreciate Colorado's efforts to keep muzzleloaders as a sort of distinct weapon class. UM muzzleloader tech. If you have said, if it's there's muzzleloader technology out there, you know there's some very some phenomenal muzzleloaders. Man, there's guys that are getting three yard accuracy scope muzzleloaders. Ah, so yeah, I applauded. Pennsylvania has a muzzloader season where it has to be a flint lock. It's got to be like the hammer. There's a piece of flint that strikes a piece of steel and shoots a little spark into a hole which ignites the gunpowder. They go, yeah, I grew up doing that. It's fun. Did you ever kill a deer doing it? Yeah? But are did with musloder one. At one point I killed more deer the muzzloader than bow and rifle. But what about with a flint lock. Yeah, I've never even shot a inline muzzloader until I moved out here. Yeah, if I was ruler of the United States, all of game laws, I would make them all musloader seasons, like you know, flint log iron sights there. Loose powder. Yeah, we loose powder, and we'd melt down lead and make our own balls by loose powder. You know, indulge me for a minute, there, spencer, So if you went and looked at it, we really were talking about Daniel Boone. Daniel Boone hunting what he had a rifle that was spiral barrel, so it was rifled. He had a rifle that was rifled. He would take a powder horn and pour loose gunpowder gun powder down his barrel. Then you would take a patch of cloth and put bear grease on it and nestle a lead sphere into that greased piece of fabric and cram that down the barrel. And that's your ball, your wadding and your loose gunpowder, and you can pack that. And then the firing mechanism was a little piece of flint that would strike a little piece of metal and shoot a spark into a hole. Well, he'd prime it. So it's like there's a flash pan. There's a flash plan with like seven G or five G or whatever, like a finer gun powder. Yeah, like we used I think it was like like or two F in the barrel and three F in the pan. I think you're answer too low, or yeah, maybe three in the barrel four in the pan or something like that. Yeah, So when you hear it was just a flash in the pan, what you're saying is a flint hits the frizzen, causes a spark. The spark falls into the pan and ignites the powder in the pan, which goes through the touch hole and ignites the powder in the barrel. Lock go wrong a wrong time, and there's a lot of time and a lot of room for flinching. You gotta hold your bead because it goes like boom yeah, boom yeah yeah. Uh, I got a question about can I finish my point real quick? Though? Now what those things are is now you got like a little cake of powder did you just carry around in your pocket or a pellet even Yeah, So it's like and there's no bear, there's no greased piece of fabric. You got a conical shaped bullet. It's like shaped, it's like a bullet. It rest inside a piece of plastic, which is a sabbath. And then you can have powder that isn't even powder, it's like and then you have a primer that is like a little cap that you carry around and it's when you touch that trick, you know that's something just going off. I mean it's just going off, and you put a scope on top. If you go watch our Maryland SECA episode, you'll see us hunt with these setups. You're up there like when I see when I'm getting them, And that's not the feeling you get with old style muzzleloader, no at all. Is it a known fact that Moon did not measure his powder? I don't you. I don't think that they measured the powder, And just reading accounts of how people did, I think they free poured and eyebald, I don't think they were measuring there. I'm sure that at times, maybe during a shooting match or whatever, they would measure their powder. But you read many accounts of just like, I think it's just something you did all the time your whole life, the same way when you're putting salt on something you're cooking. I think they just open that horn up and knew what they were looking at. You measured like how many hundred grain charges until you just kind of like you could dump it out on the table and he'd be like, that's a hunter grains, that's a hunter grains, that's hunder grains in Freeport. Okay. Someone says, I totally respect the idea of not taking a different elk in Colorado, but why did you not spend the rest of the trip looking for the one that you wounded. It's a great question. Uh, needle in a haystack? Man um, Yeah, that's a great question. I don't even know what it would it be. I don't I don't know what it would have what doing, so what it would have begun to look like? Uh, to like stay out and try to find Yeah, good question, no answer. Yeah, I don't know if you'd be looking for a dead animal or looking for a live one that's you know, hold up somewhere with the wound on its you know, chest or shoulder. But yeah, that's a good question. I don't know. Someone says, Hello, Latvian Eagles slash long tang Yanni slash Latvian lover. I would love to know more details about the distance and specifics of the deer drive in Wyoming, because that ship happened quick and it looked like a real crack shot. I think that was my favorite part of season nine, seeing an executed deer drive in the back country like that. That was that was special. That might be the only one that ever gets executed ever anywhere. No, I'm sure there's a listener that has a whole they drive deer out of all the time, But no, that outfitter Stewart Peterson. He's been on that hillside on that mountain quite a few times. And if you could see the whole mountain. Well, I think we did a pretty good job in that diagram kind of showing where there was timber and where there wasn't. But the diagram is great when it was because its chili diagram. First, I was like, this is oddly specific, and then it goes back to showing like the hunting. I was like, oh, that's because they made it very specific totally. Yeah. No, I mean there was a very and we had glass this strip of timber numerous occasions in the prior, you know, five or six days looking for deer in there, and it did not look like much and it looked like it was just a strip of raggedy you know, wind blown I'm guessing fir trees, you know a lot of that stuff that they called the shin tangle um shintang, Yeah, because it's tangles your shins when you walk through it, just like grows lokes. It's just gotta be like trying to like grab onto the rocks because it's just like this these strip of timber was just on a basically a giant screen slide hillside. I mean that went on for you know, a thousand yards either direction and hundreds of yards up and down until you either made the ridge or you actually dropped down into it like the main timber, which would have been you know, below tree or at tree line. And uh, he just knew that they hole up in there, and that morning we had bumped deer that had headed that way, so you thought it was a pretty good chance to be deer in there. And again he had executed his drive prior to doing At that time, he told us a couple of stories about other hunters that had sat where he was sending me and where I went to. We had already spent a couple of day a sitting and looking at deer in the bowl below us, on a ridge across from us, so I had a pretty good familiar familiarity with when he was explained to me where to go, with what it looked like and what I was gonna see there. And I knew what he was talking about when he was talking about game shows that wrapped around that hill and where they went, because again I had been sitting above them for a couple of days. So it didn't happen much faster. I mean, there was enough time that the photographer and I walked to the spot that might have taken five to ten minutes we set up there. There was enough time for me to kind of, like I did, I set up like a long range shooting position. If they kind of came out low and got farther, I needed a better rest. And then I had a sort of a shorter range shooting position when I used my tripod and I had a V attached to the top of it where I was gonna shoot, you know, a hundred yards or less or whatever. Um. And I sort of explained that to the amor a few times, and we were like, all right, now it's time to wait. We'll see what happens. And it probably wasn't more than five or ten minutes. And you remember when a deer is pushed on a drive. They moved so quick through that country that the pusher is probably just standing at that deer's bed when you shoot, even though you might be a thousand yards away from it. I mean, that's how fast they moved from that spot to where where I was. There's a good chance that Stewart had just gotten into those beds and said, look at that, there was some deer bedded here, and then he probably heard me shoot. They left those just like we showed the diagram diagram. They left that little strip of timber and just wrapped ride around the horn of that ridge, and uh, didn't drop down, didn't really come up, and then came basically right underneath me. And as far as the crack shot goes, I saw him coming from a ways. Um, the photographer that with me is is he's a great photographer, but just hasn't done too much work with us yet. And so it was happening fast. That deer was coming, and it was in a lot of a lot of small trees. It's hard for him to pick up. But um, that deer was walking pretty slowly by the time he finally got over to me. And I think I shot him at like sixty or seventy yards. It was really a pretty easy shot on your mulee. It sounded like you were sawing through the brisket if so, have you ever tried sawing right next to it where the ribs attached. It's all cartilage, and it's way easier even on ilk w A A A A A y way easier, so much easier making a point there was that for me for either one of you who was so I know the guy I always talking about Yeah, it's easy to cut over there. But here's the thing, when you come up with your gutting decision. I'm going up the middle anyway. The hair is real short along the brisket, and so I out there and then I cut there with my saw, which is I don't I don't view it as very hard. And then you can just kind of open it up and it's like opening up center based in the middle, and you can get in there and cut the esophagus and and uh tracky and everything and and gut it and you can't go down to the side. But then the other thing is when I take the rib slabs off this way, there's symmetrical, but sure, especially if someone had skinned it all the way back, I might just go up the side like that. Yeah, I guess on a deer, I don't know. We might shave away that brisk getting throwed into the grind pile. But I don't know why it looked hard, because I think zipping through the brisket of a deer is usually pretty dang easy. I don't it's it's enough easy enough. I don't really think about it being a thing. How did you feel when you were looking for your tag and you came back and found that the guy had cut your deer clean in half? Did you see it as disrespectful to your kill? Absolutely not. These guys we're hunt with some guys Landing and Stuart Peterson Cricket Sky Outfitters, and these guys are like phenomenal hunters, very hard workers. But they are like there horsemen, they're packers if you like a big part of their jobs, they are packers. They know how to move things from point A to point B. What be at people or materials. On horses. He has a way to carry mule deer where you got a horse with a panier on each side, and he knows where to cut it so that that front half and back half way the same. When you're loading horses, it might not seem like this would be like an actual thing. A pound matters. The panniers on a pack saddle like they're balanced there, they're just they're setting there balanced. Um, there's some lashing and stuff, primarily like if they're out of balance, it's not going to ride. So he goes up to the third rib whatever the hell he is, because the deer off at the knees, grows up to the third or fourth rib. Whatever cuts the thing in a half knows how to tilt its head over to make up the difference, puts it into panier, and he knows that that mule here is now cutting two halves the way the exact same amount. I've never seen that before, and I thought my eyes were deceiving me in the episode, I thought someone else had killed the deer in the like time that they had last shown your mule deer. And then when they came back to it, because there was like two halves of mule here there. Yeah, we were trying to get I mean it was I would have liked to have taken part in that process. But as you saw, like where it had a snowstorm, it was very late at night. I was trying to find the deer tag, everything soaked. He just no. I thought it was genius, but I didn't know about that trick. You guys weren't familiar with that cutting them that way, so they weigh the same first I had seen it. No, then he cocks the head over the top of the the crossbars there and out of there. Yeah, if disrespect, if there could somehow be disrespect in getting something out cleanly, and effectively, Um I don't, I don't see it. And they leave the hide on just to protect they like they leave the hide on to protect the meat, which is pretty calm with horse people because you're not horse people. They're not always trying to find ways to make everything light, so they're able to do It's like making everything light and compact and transportable isn't like their primary focus. Like they know how to use the horses for what their best at. So a lot of horse guys leave hide on stuff because then you get home, skin the hide off and it's all clean underneath. They use it like in substitute of a game bag. Then they oftentimes aren't looking to turn things into like a thousand bags of stuff. Two is is fine. Those guys are good dudes, man. They know what they know their business very well. Someone wants to know, can you cook mule deer ribs the same as white tail ribs? You sure it wasn't the opposite? Well either way? Can you cook them the same way? The same question? Yeah, anything, anything, any kind of ribs, it doesn't matter. Someone's wondering how you got the meat home from Wyoming. I'd love to hear a little more about your post hunt slash post field dressing logistics. Yeah. Yeah, um, I did the same thing just recently on my Colorado l count. We've been flying traveling with empty Yeti Hopper coolers, but we drove to Wyoming. Yeah, oh, I forgot. We drove those deer home. Called him in a lie. You're right, you're right, you know what that question there was some There was some more to that question that Spencer skipped over. That was asking if we had checked him in on the flight, because I knew that you didn't fly from my own but I think this guy wants to know how we do it. So yeah, like those guys are saying on that particular one, they just went home, probably just about that way mine was quartered because we packed it off the mountain. But they probably just went into a cooler anyways, for flying or road trips, so for transporting, for transporting, yeah, I'm gonna get into the flying because this works pretty slick. But anyways, Tho's Yetie hoppers, soft sided coolers. We get the meat cold. If we can freeze it, we freeze it, but it's usually just like large muscle chunks, not fully processed. It doesn't look like it's gonna go right into my freezer. I'm just trying to get it cold. So literally, on my last hunt, I put the meat, came off the mountain, boned out. I took it to a process or cooler, and I said, how much its gonna take for me just to story here for a while? He said, He said X amount whatever it was per day. So it was in there for three or four days. The day before we left, I went and picked it up and just shoved giant chunks and meat into these yetie hoppers as full as I could get them and zip them shut. Now they're heavy, they're we're wait, so you have to pay for that on the flight home. Now you're forgetting a couple of steps here you okay, you hadn't gone into ziplocks Nope. And then you hadn't lined the hopper with a contractor bag nope. Okay. I had cooled clean, not bloody, just Mimi stepping in here. It had been setting on a wire rat getting air circulated around it like in a nice you know, meat cooler. One thing that's gonna get you in trouble. Yeah, oh, I learned this. This. I don't I hesitate to even tell people this. Some of from Alaska Airlines was telling me they can't. They won't ditch stuff based on smell. It has to be an overpowering odor. Okay. I was like, really, She's like, yeah, we can't. It's just like if something smells, we can't decide to get rid of it. Did you But what she said, we can do anything dripping blood, it's it's okay to not handle it. So I I like to line the hopper with a good contractor bag, put my meat in there, and then zip tie or electric tape that contractor bag shut. Because I've heard from multiple airline people that anything dripping bodily fluids definitely is okay to like find its way to like the dumpster. Yeah, And like I said, this is a particularly particular instance where I knew the meat was just extremely I don't want to say dried out, but like I said, it's been laying in a cooler with air going around it with a fan for three or four days, Like I just until you froze it and then thought it out. Then it would probably have juice or blood or whatever you want to call that stuff from the cells breaking down that it would leak. But um, when yes, if you strip the velvet off antlers, let it dry, because she said if someone touches that antler and gets that one in their hands, they don't have to handle it. It's good tip. But speaking of antlers in the head, this is gonna be a real conundrum because that same shop, I'm like, well, sorry they did. They did like the you know, skull cleaning, like a quick European amount, Like how much do that? You know, I'm thinking I'll just pay for it, no big deal, but they wanted three or fifty bucks to freedom ount of skull. Yes. I'm like, all right, I'll figure something out. You have got to be kid, what's the world coming to? It? Seems like that's going right. So I had I had pretty much ahead that had been set in the garage for four days now, and it was you know what kind of clean that I had pulled the eyeballs out and pulled some meat off of it, brains still in it. Um. Actually we had to pull the brains out because it's because of c w D. We didn't know if we had to. I think we actually checked and didn't have to for that. There are some places I don't want to make this confusing, But there are some places where you have to be very careful about transporting brain matter, bones, and different parts of animals across state lines and even from unit to unit in different states. So if you're gonna do that with any kind of meat, read the REGs closely. Um. So I thought that was gonna be the case. So we took we pulled the brain out, but I still had like this kind of semi wasn't rotten yet, but just a bloody, meaty head and had some dirt on it. And you can't just walk into the airport like that. So I took some shop towels, like basically a blue paper towel, kind of put it on there, wrapped a little bit of duct tape on there to hold that on there. And then I took a just a regular old grocery sack like, uh, you know, the small one if you just go and get a few things from the grocery, wrapped that around the head. Then I went balls to the wall with duct tape and covered the whole head and turned it into like a piece of art that just looks like a skull covered in duct tape. Now that was fine for that was contained right because you get garden holes or pipe insulation. Now, So then I went and got ah, it's perfect because they sell like I didn't know, eight and like ten ft chunks of garden holes and you cut about I don't know, four or five inches of garden holes and stick it onto the end of a time and then basically just you don't even have to tape the top part, the open part above the time, just to keep the garden holes onto the time. You take that up, and they want you to do that. So it's not sharp because if they put a head with times into the bottom of a um airplane and someone tosses a you know, a piece of luggage on top of it, could very well go right through it, right, So you're protecting other people's stuff by taping that. Or the plane goes down and all of a sudden that antler comes crashing up through the floor of the plane. Right, you get a time before you burn up. So anyways, yeah, I checked that and the guy had year old questions. Just like put a tag on it and stuck it in and then I it was interesting they loaded it. There was the very last piece of gear to go onto the plane. I say gear luggage she walked it over and handed it to the person. Didn't even ride the conveyor belt. They took care of my antlers very very well. That's great. Yeah, it's nice when people are like that, because you're always coming in with something like that. Your eyes a little bit like what am I? You know what am I running into flying home? My kids care? But we're coming in there like welcome, welcome. Well, their anchorage and Air Alaska Airlines they're used to that in those fairbanks. Yeah, you come in there with a polar bear, they're like, well, please wrap his claws and something. When we flew home from Sonora, you guys just carried those bucks on just a small Yeah. But I've seen I've seen people get turned away. I've seen people get turned away. I saw the other day, speaking of flying with stuff, I saw there a guy getting a major, major fight. He was fighting with the t s A guys so bad. He had speedloaders, so you had a hard case with his pistol stuff. He's some kind of competitive shooter, I could tell by all of his shirts and the guys he was with. And you're supposed to like when you fly with AMO, you supposed to fly with ammo in its original box or a container made for ammunition. He had a hard case with his pistol in it. He had all his ammo loaded into speedloaders and the t s A Guy's like no, and he's like, all right, fly all over you know the first thing you say to anybody's here talking about how much you fly all over place? Right? Alright, fly with this deer head everwhere I go, never before. But he lays that on him, and this guy is like not giving an inch. The dude gets so heated and all of a sudden, two cops come and one cop comes and stands back like to survey the situation, right, another cop goes out to engage with the dude. And it was the most genius piece of policing I've ever seen, because you could the cops like wants to to Here's a guy stand there like a pistol in an airport, right, are you know, over speedloaders and he's getting heated up. Yeah, and this guy can shoot good. So the policeman comes up and the policeman is like, the t s A dudes basically his colleague. They both work in the same airport. So you can see that he can't alienate the t s A Guy. And he comes up and explains that in my and in defending the t s A guy, you can tell he doesn't agree with the t s A Guy. But he said, we have a job of interpreting in a in a situation like this, we interpret the situation, we interpret the law, and it's for courts to figure that out later. But in the moment, we need to make a judgment call. This is the judgment call this man is made. Then the guy is still getting heated up. This this police guy takes the guy's speedloaders and says, I will get these held for you, and when you're coming through town again, I'll come and bring him to you. You let me know. Here's my business card. Dude, calm right down, didn't fly with his speed loaders. The cop like soothe everybody out. I even gave him like a nice job as he's walking away, because this dude was getting heated up. Man, and he came and just dissolved that ship, like dissolved that ship. That's great. Was there they were loaded, you said. He instead of having his pistol rounds and boxes, he had him and all these speed loaders and I don't know why it never occurred. The guy just to like, but you're screwed in the airport because you can't go take all the amber and throw into trash can. They're not gonna let that fly. But but I'm surprised if he had needed those speed loaders, like say, for the competition, that maybe he was flying too, that he would have kept those and just he was going I knew he was going home. He was headed home. No, it's a great bit of policing. Everybody saved face. No one was like yeah, everyway. Then I saw that same police guy again later in the airport. I almost went up said something to again. I started thinking, you think I was creepy in the making of all nine seasons? How many times has the camera crew scared off an animal you were hunting? Only once? All the animals all the time, What was it once? I'm joking. They spook a lot of them, but they spot a lot of them. It's real, like they spook a lot and spot a lot. Are they carrying bn oculars? They get into it, yeah, they they we got some camera guys have become like very enthusiastic about glassing, and everybody spoots a lot. They we spook him, we spot them, they hear them. It's just tough. It's there's a lot of complications. There's a lot of good that comes out of it, you know, a lot of eyeballs. Man, Yeah, you worry about missing something comes close by. What are you doing differently with the cinematography this season? It has a different feel, but in a good way. I'll let your Honi handle that one. Uh. The answer is nothing. Um. If you felt that way and and saw something, you know you can certainly, um send me an email to the info at meat Eater? Is it info? Do we have that spencer? You know? What do they send emails to? When they sent them to general email inbox? I don't know how this all get there? Well, how do you get untact? Just hit the contact stage on the website. A lot of good stuff coming. But I can tell you that you know, just about everybody that we worked with on that season has been working with us for quite a few years. And um, just through tweaks and and polishing. You know, it gets better and better, hopefully always changing, always upgrading and changing equipment. And then you'd like to think that people just get better at what they do. Yeah. I think people just get better, the editors get better. Everyone's just growing. There's the thing that happens to is that, um, the camera operators that you use a lot. This is probably isn't what this person is getting at, but the camera operators use a lot start to get a real sixth sense. They kind of understand, like they start to understand how animals like, they understand how the situations play out, how the interactions play out. Um, And just to exposure to it, I think get a sense of of also body language that people have, right, and and and and and they get like they kind of like meld into it in a better way and they sort of know you know, uh, for instance, like if the importance of kind of like tying in a person and an animal, right, So if you're like, oh, there's a year over there, right, that rather than showing the hunter and showing the deer, and showing the hunter and showing the deer, they kind of get where they position themselves to get the hunter and the deer and the same shot, right. And that just comes from exposure and seeing these things happen again and again, and also from the good relationship between the host or talent or guests or whoever, and the shooter where they start to really understand. You know, if you hunt with someone all the time, like a buddy, you just kind of know what they're thinking and doing. You know, like you're walking along grouse hunting and you don't say like, okay, we'll stay roughly this far apart and you know, and whatever, you just without talking, you just understand what each other is up to. Um, you don't just then wander off and leave the guy, you know. Uh So, just through that proximity, I think a lot comes out of that um that could lead perhaps to some of what they're talking, what they're noticing. And I imagine also just like equipment and getting better at your craft kind of scenes, what are your meals like and your snacks like before obtaining fresh meat? It just depends, man. Yeah, if we're hunting out of a like a house that we've rented or staying at someone's place. We were rarely based out of a hotel, so we usually like to base out a place where we can cook our own meals. And in that case, I mean, it's not too different than what you might be having at home for dinner. I mean, we usually have spaghetti night and we have taco night. You know, it's just pretty broack night. Well, I mean it's definitely stuff that that I can and and Seth can cook up quickly. Um. You know, after the long day a hunting, last thing, you wanted to spend a bunch of time in the kitchen, So stuff that we can whip up quickly. I was going over just with Chester and Molester last night. Yeah he's simple. Yeah, he tried to go too complicated one time. I know, I gotta go simple. People are tired. It's late, yep, and quick. We often bring we'll bring our own meat. We're talking about that. Yeah, if you're gonna travel with some empty yetie hoppers, you might as well pack in a couple of rows and stuff. But some trips we do all freeze dry like maybe instant oatmeal in the morning. All freeze drying for lunch, just like have a thing of mayo, have some cheese, have some salami and flatbread, very simple, bunch of granolas. Now on the Wyoming hunt, we had a full on cook Yeah, they were cooking outfit. There was an outfitted trip, so they did like outfitter meals, Yeah, which we weren't gonna do. But then I figured, you know, they'll give us more time to uh, you know, focus on the hunting, come home again tired. I mean because full meals, full meals. Yeah, because like that night you killed your buck. I mean you were in like four or five hours after dark. You know that someone like made all kinds of cool food. Oh yeah, well I think we put on during that trip. That's I think it's a game changer when someone else is cooking because we don't have to worry about it gives us a lot more time to do other things. What's it like to pack out an elk at elevations above ten thousand feet? And are there noticeable physical differences between elk at lower elevations and higher elevations. Man, they don't even have to be ten thousand feet. Man, if you come from sea level, uh, five thousand feet might be very arduous and a tough pack out. I still don't hear people. I can't think of a conversation where someone was factoring elevation above just distance you know you're talking about, like you might say, Man, by myself, I don't think it would. I think it would be irresponsible for me to kill elk more than a mile from my truck. I've never heard someone say, um, hunting by myself, it would be irresponsible for me to kill an more than a mile from my truck at said elevation, Like, I just don't. It's a real thing and it factors in, But I don't know that I hear people maybe they should pay attention to that because it's a major major issue. It is. But if if anything at ten thousand feet most places during archery elk season, um, and then as you get later it will be even more to your advantage. But uh, it's gonna be pretty cool. Like above town ten thousand feet, there's not a lot of days that are actually gonna you take care of your meat and get it hung on the north side of the tree that it couldn't hang there for two or three days and be just fine, giving you plenty of time to do the actual work. In terms of the difference of the animals, yeah, I don't know that a layman isn't gonna look and no, but there's no way there's not a difference and there's no way there's not a difference in fitness between some crazy elk and Colorado All living at ten eleven thousand feet and the elk living at two thousand feet. There's no way, there's not a difference in uh um that the ten thousand footel is not going to smoke the two thousand foote el can raise that ten thousand feet. I mean, how how did you know? There's no way it's gonna be just like anybody else. Like you live at high elevation, you learn how to perform at a high elevation. But I don't. You're not. I'm not gonna like dissect one and be like, look at this, see he's got a Did you learn anything watching Jesse Butcher the Neil guy, M yeah, quite a bit um cooking more than butchering. But the biggest thing I picked up from him butchering that I now do is, uh that clever rubber mallet. Man, Like I always knew about it, you know, and I've seen it, but like to really see someone who's good at a rubber mallet and a clever it's nice man. I started doing that even in my kitchen. Cleveland rubber mallett. It's just very ice feeling because a lot of people take Cleveland start just wailing away at stuff but when you put that blade right, you would want it and then give it a love tap with a rubber mallet. It's so precise. Well, I think too, I'm like messed up a clever too, because when you're whacking bones with a clever, that blade cannot withstand that those impacts. He end up like really dinging and like putting full on waves in your blade as Grandpa's old carbon. And it's probably not meant to do that. It's meant to be used a way Jesse was used that little love tap with a mallet. Dude, it's like just on a rousing deer ribs one even on just a home cutting board. I was like, so, I usually hacks on my ribs shorter, but I was like, oh, tell and you take that Cleveland lay it on and I shot Cleveland at mallet and it's just like satisfying. Man's just like so that that was one of the biggest things. But mostly I learned from him um cooking. I mean, he's just like a thousand times better of a cook than I am. When you're hunting in Wyoming and your guy don't do anything on the sabbath, what would have happened if you guys still had tags to fill. Oh, they wouldn't have cared if we'd gone hunting. We would have been hunting. Could have you used the horses? No, No, their horses rest on Sunday. Oh it's it's everybody. Well, no, they don't. If you're with those guys, then you want to go do something, They're not gonna care. If you said, hey, I want to go fish, and they'd be like, oh, go down. That's why we packed my buck out on foot and on our backs. What about the cook I can't remember what. I believe that their employees took the Sunday off to Yeah, I don't. I don't imagine that that. I don't imagine that they would say that we are going to take the day off, and we'd prefer that our horses take the day off. But then an employee others would be obligated to work. But then again, she's certainly made breakfast and dinner for us that day. Yeah, because I think like just eating, you know, I mean, yeah, yeah, somewhere I can't remember. Yeah, I can't really remember. Um. But no, they're very uh observing of their religion in a in a like kind of you know, an admirable, admirable, respectful way, and it would have been never been that we could have done whatever we want. No, and there's not you know, they're like quite up front about it. It was totally cool. I actually appreciated it. On the Wyomi hunt. How many horses were with you in camp? I don't know, man close to be like one human to one horse pack. They had pack animals and we got crew. We had a huge string because of all the gear and packing in pelican cases and ship. I don't think it was twenty, No, probably probably closer to fifteen ish. And I had to guess they probably each led us string of four or five and then plus all of us. Yeah, solid fifteen. There's a lot goes into that horse business man. My sister in law knows a lot about horses, and she knows more about horses than she can even begin to tell you, because it doesn't it's not even things that you know. I mean, like the same way when you're talking to people, you're making all these calculations and observations about their personality and stuff, and later you said, like I got you know, you can't be like I like him because you know this, this, this and this. You just don't think about it that way. But people that are around horses, man, they look at a horse and they just see something that I don't see. There there's a lot happening under the surface. And to keep all those horses moving in the same direction stuff without getting all worked up and piste off. It's it's it's something. They were hard working, dude. They would be up well before us and go to bed. Wait, I've just taken care of the horses. I mean there's a lot of horses take care of. Yeah, you gotta draw a license. Is the hunting that area? But I'm telling you, man um, I would without hesitation in terms of getting your money's worth and having someone work like, I would out hesitation recommend doing a guided hunt in terms of like someone that like wants to hunt hard and is willing to put in the time, and those guys are hard workers. Last question is probably the most common question the media got. When will there be part two? Soon? Early? Right soon, soon soon? Thank you, Spencer, good work, Spencer, seth thank you absolutely start thanking. I started thanking people an awkward way all the time. Thank you, honest, You're welcome, Thank you, good work. Any thank you Steve, thank you