00:00:08 Speaker 1: This is a me eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, folk bitten, and in my case, underwear listening. Un don't me to eat podcast. You can't predict that anything. All right, everybody, thanks for coming out. Ben's the man. I'm the man. Yeah. I figured that was either the start or the end of my career. Yeah. What, Oh, go ahead, I want to go, you know, I want to get startybody's clearing the air. It um. I'm onto everyone here. I know the truth. Man. You just tree hugging, rock kissing green decoys. There's some of you that might be here and you don't know what you are. I'm gonna tell you about what you are and how I've learned to see through it. First, I want to make sure everyone's clear on what you are. Ben, you want to take a stab at it? Yeah? What a b h a bad country hunters and anglers is green decoys. You're a bunch of environmentalists, let snobs, liberals, liberals, liberals masquerading as sportsman. Shame on you. Yeah, you don't need to add tum about what they are actors. They act like they like guns, they act like they like to hunt, act like they like to kill fish. They act like they just want to be left alone to hunt. That's right, but what's the truth. They're like a trojan horse. They're sneaking into the far right to eventually take down all hunting screen. I've seen the website. When I first saw it, him like, dude, how did I not see it? Man? I felt so naive. It was like because I always saw I was looking at it. I was like, h A, you know, I've been supporting VHA for a long time, and I always saw. I was like, it seemed to me like the hardest hitting hunting fishing dudes I knew about. And I used to look at a bit man, uh if I had to think, like, if you were going to take a membership and tally up hours spent per year out in the woods or in the mountains or in the swamps, there's no conservation group that would log the hours spent a field per member that that this one does. That was when I was stupid and naive. But then I started thinking about it, looking at it more carefully, and I got looking at some of the members, you know, looking at what they do. Got the reading about this person, she might even be here. Cindy states. Don't don't know. You gotta know the truth, don't. You don't know the truth about her. You don't know the truth about stops here, Cindy. She's a first off certified arborist. When I hear arborist, I know we're already talking about in the elitist we're talking about when I hear arborrests. You know, tree hugger were literally out hugging trees. You used to be an arbors cor That's why I know that world man, So i'd I was like, okay, you know, maybe there's something to this green decoy business. Someone out running chainsaws. And then uh, you know, I started to smell a fish. Turns out she got to she gets she started to pretend. I got a question. Do you think like she carries a whole bunch of Kleenex? Because when she's up in that tree cutting those limbs, she there must be tears with every single thing. How she started to hone her ability to live a lie. She's like, she's she started to infil like to infiltrate and learn how to live a lie. So she's like cutting trees, but she actually loves trees, and she's like, well, I can do this. So I'm gonna get into this thing and pretend how I like hunting. So she goes hunting. She goes hunting six years ago. I got some details here. She goes hunting six years ago, gets the super into it, you know, and she's so statistic. She's so statistic that she starts helping other people who want to get involved in hunting. She become is a a hunting ed instructor, which is like if you think about some shrewd ship right, because he's she's like Donny Brasco man. She's destoring it from the inside. So she becomes the hunting ed instructor. And the play there is that you help other people start hunting, right, and you make more and more hunters. And then she gets really smart and starts going into schools to teach archery. And she goes to four h to teach archery. Because imagine the elaborate, the elaborate play here, because you guys know General Patton was fighting for the Germans. I don't you know this, So that's like how this kind of stuff works. And I get there's another dude I start reading about, and I've emailed with a little bit and I started getting suspicious because he's a hunting guide. So the first thing that goes off my head. This guy Adam gall like hunts down in Colorado. He's got a hunting guide business that specializes and taken It's called Timber to Table Guide Service, where they specialize in taking out clients who want to learn about hunting, butchering, cooking, ground up, full on blood on your hands ship right, because that's how you win that war against hunting. It's like it's just became so obvious. He gets all involved in like a partnership with the Boone and Crockett Club where they go to colleges to help college kids learn about hunting and get involved in the conservation movement. Duh, you can see where it's going. I know. It's like, how did I not see that this is the end of hunting? Connect the dots people? And then it gets bad. The reason I bringing up to gets bad because it turns out that the b h A back country hunters and angers wounded up somehow my my brother and here's the weird hear, It gets real weird because me and my brother started trapping muskrats. Now it's ten to know that he was like the dedication to know at that age, he's like, here's how I'm gonna unraffle hunting as here's how I'm gonna destroy American hunting and fishing. At at nine whatever years of age he shot your first year of the bow when you were twelve? How did you know you were gonna I had to established my hunting bona fides if I was gonna have any chance, So to know, to have the clarity of mine that at twelve years of age you knew you were going to grow up and betray hunters and gun owners and to live. How old you know? You still haven't broke cover? He still he still hasn't broke cover. And like you might look at me like, okay, this, here's this guy, this elaborate, lifelong ruse opportunity is a hardcore hunter, lives on wild game meat wanners around the mountains by himself with Llamas. It's like he's so he's such a character actor and plays the role so well that he plays it by himself out in the damn mountains. It's like he's tricking. He's tricking, you know. Gray Jay's and to thinking he likes to hunt, but there are there's people watching on those ridgets, yeah, you know, and they get suspicious and they come on. They're like, well, let's just see and ensure enough. He comes behind and like, by god, he does like the hunt. Uh. And here's like the little kind of shrewd move that he does is uh near him. There's a there's a there's a federal agency that manages his chunk of land right and this, and they got a boat launch that cuts through this property. And a guy comes in and vandalizes the area. And so the guy in charge a manage in the land, not not out of any kind of ruthlessness or not out of being a bad guy, but it's just he hasn't make a decision where he's gonna have to shut down the boat launch because the vandalism problem. And so this is where my brother springs the trap and destroys hunting and fishing in America is he proposes this idea where why don't I get with b h A, why don't I get with bad country hunters and anglers? And we'll raise up some money and buy a gate with a key code on it so that when people do want to launch their boat to go hunting, fish. They'll just get a number and enter their number, and then we'll know who's been there and the person in charge of the administrates this land. It's like, well, you know what, that seems like a pretty reasonable thing. I don't have the budget for. He's like, I'll tell you what. I'll work with pH A will raise the money to pay for an electronic gate and the key code system. So they do that, and now all these you know, people that like the hunting fish can go do it. And that's how you get them. It's like you change the key code. It's just the green decoit. It's just so insidious. Man. I was blind and stupid, but now I see the truth. I'm still gonna carry on a night like a normal show, but I just don't want anyone to have any confusion about what this group is actually about. Uh So Land we're gonna do. We're gonna do a couple of things. Uh We're gonna cover some news and feedback. We're gonna talk about other stuff that's not that. We're gonna um play a game seeing through the Bullshit where you get to win something really cool. There was a game I wanted to play. Uh. Four of us are all staying in the same house, and we have. We've been showering with French lavender soap. I know because I was in there and next what's in there? And I wanted to play game where someone wears a blindfold and has to identify the two people who aren't staying in that house. But we're not gonna I don't want to play that game. I thought about it. Uh, we're nenna have a talk with a guy named Seth Trophy is here. Okay, we're gonna talking to him. I gotta talk to him real bad. We're gonna do birthday giveaways. We've got other business to take care of. But first we're gonna do interdut auctions, and I think that the first interruction I want to do is is land. Can you tell us how bad the b h A situation has gotten? Like the insidious plot? Like how many people have you got sucked into the insidious plot to destroy America? I mean, it's so bad. It's so bad. We got like people here right now. That's terrible, and we got thirty six thousand across the country. It is horrible. It's getting bad. It's horrible. It's like the Red scare Man every day. We're getting members every single day. We have thirty thousand at the start of the year and all of a sudden thirty six. It sends shivers up my spine to think you got thirty six thousand people out there, Uh, fighting for America's public lands. Freedom. We're fighting for freedom. Uh seriously give it, like like, tell people a little bit about what goes on here and who's all here and otway. So this is the biggest group of badass hunters in the country and angler to come together, right and like the traditional rendezvous, they come together once a year and they come together to share stories, come together to have a lot of fun. They come together to learn how to infiltrate even better. Yeah. So basically we've been we've been here since, we've been here since Tuesday. Many of us chapter training we've been doing. Uh, we've been learning how to infiltrate even better. And then we were today the little elk Calling contest outside. We have a brue fest last night with like what four thousand, five thousand people do. Now here's how bad it gets is that Elkholm that's like a pied piper thing where you lure children away. That's our sirens song. This is how bad it. Guess last night we had our brue fest. We had a Democratic mayor, mayor beater introduce a Republican governor. And guess what they were agreeing on stuff. It's called public lands. That's how good we're getting. You even got the you even got the politicians to buy in. Man, we got the politicians buy in. We're having a lot of funds. That's what we're doing. Steve, No, dude, so I got I'm gonna save Col's introduction for last. We talk about something. Ben O'Brien from Hunting Collective. Hey, I'm the man. I'm the man. We're only calling that th HC from here on out. That's what I'm handing out boys every week. It's green decoys. That's your new intro. My older brother Matt Ronella and the lovely laughing Eagle jannest who tell us, and then uh Ryan Cal Ryan old Cal Callahan. So here's a here's something we need to do. Is as normally I would It's normally when you go to a show, it's bad for him to pull out your phone, But in this case it's perfectly accepted to pull out your phone and Go to Google Play or go to iTunes and download and subscribe to Cal's new show, Cal's Weekend Review, which is your weekly round up of ship you ought to know about. It's a new show called Cal's We can review telling Cal he's not kidding. Pull out your phones because I need a job. Go to iTunes, go to Google Play, subscribe and download Col's week in Review. You think of this as your conservation. Cliff notes, Okay, you're gonna get everything you need to know from last week and this week, and you're gonna be able to regurgitate that stuff on demand. Yeah, so when do you fake hunters are talking to real hunters and you hit them with this ship, You're gonna sound legit and they're gonna get They're just gonna be like, just take my gun, and then, uh, you should have it. You obviously know this world better than I do. When you're done, and hold your phone up so we can see that you've done it, checked your works. Cal's Weekend Review weekly round up of everything you need to know about and a lot of stuff, the things you might even wish you didn't know about. Now now on the show, we're gonna get into some other stuff. On the show. We have a we have a little bit of a habit of something will come up and then we kind of beat it to death. Uh, and then eventually we've beating it so to death that we eventually decided to let it die. And there's a couple of those things that I want to like touch on for the last time and then we'll take our oath and not talk about it anymore. Some of these are too funny. We we we we had a we had a podcast where we're talking about how excruciating it is. Two there's there's a lot of Western hunters here, so when we're talking about how excruciating it is to like you see a dear way off. I thought you were gonna talk about chap Ass. Oh no, we retired. We retired chap Ass. We see have come down to wait, we gotta bring up cow has flip flop chap It's first first round out of the gate. Man, it's not flip flop season in Montana. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm coming around though. It's okay. The two chap Ass kres uh In the end that seems about the unanimous almost unanimous decision was um a product called body Glide so you guys have covered this. Yeah, no, dude, we covered it. Most people that rode in, like if you're gonna tally it up. There's a product called body Glide. But one guy, uh and I've mentioned this three times now, suggested that he would once had it so bad he took his sandwich apart and wedged a slice of bologney between his buttets. Between his buttets is how bad it got for him. But there's a consensus around products such as body Glide. I had some firefighters just two hours ago tell me about that they trust body glide. If a firefighter can trust it, so can you. Ah. But the thing we're talking about is we're talking about when you're telling someone where a deer is and they're like, well, where is the deer? And you kind of have this like and you do the you know when you see that rock and then there's a tree. You know, when you talk someone into it or talk someone onto it. And I was taught on a later show. I got to talk about how a guy who's he does he's j tax so he calls air strikes for a living in war zones, and he's like, when you're calling air strikes for a living from the ground and you're trying to direct firepower from on from the heavens. I like to a establish a unit of measurement, so I would say, Okay, go to the skyline and you see that prominent spruce tree at the highest point. Okay, everybody agrees on that spruce tree, that spruce tree, the width of that or the height of that spruce tree will now become a unit of measurement. Go down five. And he says, that's how you talk someone in on something out in the mountains. And I thought that was the final word. And then we get an email from a pilot. The pilot says, I heard Mr Ronnella say he was going to take the tip of using the quote unit of measure technique from J Tach. Now, being a pilot from a squadron that conducted close air support, this made my blood boiled. I had a genuine emotional reaction to it. Nothing kills tempo more in the close air support environment. When you hear the J tech come over the net and say the distance between X and Y will be used as a unit of measure. The frustration that the air crew have in the time after those words is enormous, so understand that there is some contention about establishing unit of measure. Another thing I want to touch on it we talked about. We spent a lot of time. Say something. If you've heard of us talk about the guy that got in trouble for killing the four under pound tuna and dumping into woods. Okay, that's good because the word gets out in the arresting officer listens to our description of what happened, and and right then to say, you guys did a great job explaining what happened. Here's a couple of fun details for you that you don't know about. One, the guy that caught the tune of that he sort to back up for him to be sharing this information. I don't know he sent it to me a I guess blue fin tuna season ends in Massachusetts and the guy catches a tune and boats at which is illegal, and then he's got a plan to sell the tuna, but instead drags the tunea it gets gets winded there after him or onto him and drags a tune out in the woods and gets a fifteen thousand dollar fine for killing the tuna out of season. And then for fun, they add on dump fines for dumping ship in the woods, And the best detail that comes out of it is that when he dragged it away, he actually tied it to his girlfriend's car. And it's like, there's a there's a rule in comedy about specificity and tying a tune into your car and dragging it away. It's funny, but it's not as funny it's tying a tune into your girlfriend's car and dragging it away. It's just like it just as a rule of comedy. But the guy, this guy is a glutton for punishment, so he gets in all this trouble. But he gets out. He's on frobation, and what does he do on probation. He's go He goes out to get vengeance on people who testified against him. So he goes to one of them and steals a bunch of his lobster pots and dumps him in the woods apparently. So now he's in jail for tampering with lobster gear and his second defense of illegal dumping, the first being a tuna. I asked Matt too. I asked Matt earlier if he could work up a moral to the story, and he really couldn't know. I just thought it was you can't compete with the truth on this. I mean he couldn't. It's the morals so clear that you can't make up a moral because it's already just so clear. What do you tell the girlfriend bagging a minute, gonna borrow your car? No, nothing's wrong with mine. No, that's not a four d pound tuna tied to the back of the car. Another thing, we recently shared a story and we recently shared an old story about a Wyoming man who caught a lake trout with a dude's finger in it. This happened in Idaho too. It's a better story because the characters in the story are better. Just back of two thousand twelve on Priests Lake, freest Lake, Idaho. There's a wake boarder who notices a curla queue form in the line. And what does he do but try to straighten the curlaque out as the boat takes off. There they all go, all four of them. Then some dudes are fishing. One of these dudes names is Calvin, and Calvin and his body catch four pound trout and they're cleaning and they sit there's something in the stomach and they were using crayfish, and they think, oh, it must be a crayfish. It's not. Calvin's body catches a fish for Calvin. Calvin has all the good quotes. One of his quotes is it was as fresh as if it was on my finger. Then he goes in the story I read, he goes on to say, I've caught a zillion fish, but never one with a human finger. And he points out that they felt so Apparently lucky would be the word that they went out and bought lottery tickets that day. There must be something about that shape that lake Trout really liked. Yeah, because Flathead Lake they fish for him with Johnsonville Brott's Superficially, after read about Yeah, after reading about all these fingers and Trout, if I saw Johnsonville Brotten the fish, I would like assume it. At the time the article I was looking at was written, there was a lot of uncertainty swirling around this whole thing. Because the guy they they fingerprint the finger they turned they know Joe. They turned the fish into the cops, and the cops pulled the finger out and fingerprinted and run through their database and it turns up the dude's name. I don't know why he'd been fingerprinted, but they a belongs to this guy. They go find him. Sure enough, it's his finger. He says he initially doesn't want it back, but then he starts to rethink it. Meanwhile, the police learned that he doesn't allow it back, but they keep it in their evidence freezer in case he changes his mind. At the time the article is written, the man who owns the finger had called his doctor to ask his opinion, but was awaiting a call back, so they caught that. They call these people in this like brief moment of uncertainty, which makes the news story more interesting. So here's my question. Is it his finger? That's why I got the email? Is it his finger? That's the reason someone brought these finger stories to my attention because we were talking too much about Steve Kendrolls. Dear An, there's a deer. Tell my god, we're talking about this too many times. There's a guy that shot a buck that was missing a time. His body shot a buck and the time is stuck in it. So the body kept the time, We ridiculed the body, and the buddy gave the time back to Steve's. Now Steve has the head and the time, and he says, if that's justice, whose finger is the fish carrying around? Does the guy with the fish you know, is he like screw you as my finger? It's like my fish. If you caught a fish that had a crayfish in it, you don't go find who owned the crayfish and it's not wildlife. You can sell it to him. They give him, give him the finger. Jokes are just easy to write the finger. Your wife might be glad we found that. I can only imagine. Uh, that's not what I meant. I think it was taking out of context. Uh, speaking of that idahole story, this is something that came into us. This is we're breaking this story an ambulance. A guy who he works on a NAMA I don't know what exactly, doesn't name us up in Polatello. This is a recent it was like an Idaho man breaking news here on Meteor podcast. They get a call to brothers gotten a big fight on New Year's Eve and apparently, like according to witnesses, as he learns the story, during the fight, one of them goes up like he's gonna kiss the other one. One of the brothers. It's somehow I don't want to get too much detail because it's a little bit hazy and email. But it just so happens that one of the brothers bites off the tongue of the other brother, and the brother that bites it off spits it onto the ground. The police come out, the ambulances come out. Everybody's going off to the hospital. They go in to recover the tongue and a cat ate the tongues. This is the first hand report out of Polkatello. Ah can I say like he gave him the tongue and we just move on his tongue jokes, his tongue jokes. I will not make um man. I'm just the man wrote in to talk about it. H quick hit from Matt. You don't remember growing up how there's a type of fence that we call a cyclone fence. That's that word is not widely used. They call him other stuff like what link We got taught in the other day about how I heard another person used cyclone fence and I was like, interesting that you just said cyclone fence. The guy from Louisa, Louisiana road, He goes, I never heard the word cyclone fence. But what we call a chain link fence. Chain link fence is a hurricane fence, my guests being that someone had one in a hurricane came and it was still there, and he names it that, and he said, when a Cajun gets wind of something that can still be standing after a hurricane, it moves to the top of the list of ship he wants to buy it. So he feels that that's how it achieved that name. Uh. We also had a recent conversation. We talked about the developing offensiveness of terms like sportsmen, fishermen, what else we have outdoorsmen, and struggling for a gender neutral term. And a guy wrote into question that I haven't even begun to grapple with. And it's a really interesting point. I'm not I'm just gonna say it and I'm not gonna comment on it because I haven't even untangled in my head. But he spells out for words sportsmen, fishermen, outdoors men. Woman, He's like, I don't get it. Uh, Okay, Like it's good, I haven't thought of Like what I haven't I don't know yet. A Canadian woman named Chloe came down to the US UH to visit and there's a bunch of turkeys hanging around and how she's renting, and she was thinking about how we're always talking about things that will make turkey's gobble, and she walked over on the porch of the house she's renting and rang a dinner bell and they gobbled, and the irony of that was not lost on her. So add that to the list dinner bells bring him running. A guy wrote in, we made a shirt that has all the things that will make a turkey shot gobble on it. Some of the things sonic booms, the more interesting sounds will make a turkey shot gobble. And a guy wrote in a complain about the shirt, saying it was like a graphic grip and grin photo because it says it makes it seem that that turkey hunting is so easy that people will think that turkey hunting is bad and they'll turn against turkey hunting. But there's a big difference between the number of turkeys you hear gobble and the number of turkeys you here that you shoot. It would be like how many people you can get to say hi to you and how many people have sex with you are like really different. Yeah, that's how you destroy turkey hunting? Um? What else? Oh? A couple more newsy things. Speaking of turkeys, a couple of guys wrote in about, uh, what is happening when turkeys spit and drum? Johnny anyone? Because I was wrong about this? I was, no, I was. I actually didn't. I didn't know till you told me. And it's funny that we also got emails about it. Do you know, Matt what the noises? Well, honestly I know now, but I'm asking if you know, I'll take a crack at it. But this could be completely wrong. I thought the spit was actually a spit like him going yep and the drums when he's fuffing up his feathers. Not correct on either front. No, first one. First of one, you know how hot it wasn't that suit suit man? So what you guys to know that it was Texas? It was hot, that's where you were dusting, right. I think someone that wrote in is here tonight that wrote him to ask this question. He he wanted us to do our best spitting drum, which is my favorite thing to do. But Yanni explain, that's how neutral. I don't even read. Man. It was a she that wrote in about um, what's going on there? Tell him spitting and drummond, it's all it's it's a vocalization. Is a vocalization? Oh? Who knew? A person wrote into Ask and they said they just started turkey hunting, and they said, when I'm close to a turkey, I don't understand, but I swear I'm hearing low thunder. Oh. A couple of years ago, I tracked the turkey through the woods for a half hour and shot him just based on that sound. That that was a gross basterdization of what he was. It's yeah, but he must be fanning out when he's doing that, because you know it's always yeah, But he's not. He's just rubbing his wings on the ground, rubbing wings on the ground, which you can hear sometimes. Yeah, you can hear those wings dragon. You hear that a lot. Hey, you guys, this is Is it all right? If I put it a little aside in here. So my turkey season hasn't been going great like I've got to, but I had. I was. I allowed hubrisk going into it. I was gonna try to get five Can you explain hubris? Like false confidence? You know? But I think that it's more than that, right a little. My cheese isn't based on incomplete knowledge of the situation, like you're just ignorant of But I think at all, in in Greek, in Greek tragedy, I think it's your hubris that leads to your downfall. Oh we're gonta have five because I was so cocky. But anyway, so I'd like to add that it's like a critical element of turkey hunting, I think. But if you don't have some huge during your hunt, it wouldn't be turkey hunting. Do you know how to experience? Then? I had? I had it the other morning. This is a major aside on my side. But when I had just slipped in there and I'd been there for five minutes in the dark, and my gun was set up right right, knew he was gonna fly down, and I'm already thinking about the text and the Instagram story, got it. And then about two hours later, I'm just you know, red faced and just wanting to dig a hole and called out into and bury myself. That's turkey hunting. But go on, I shot the king. Did you care about this? You saw it? This dude had three strands and his left, and his beard and the rest of them are all like it's like he had a mohawk or something. They're all shaved off, like I don't know if you got like it burned on the tank heater last winter or like just fighting. I watched him for an hour straight. He never unpuffed, not once, and uh, he was immune to my seduction. And he's out in the middle of antelope country, like a quarter mile from the nearest tree. So I was able to doing two which patch of trees he was going to go to. And when he came into roost, he had four or five hands. He had three gobblers with him. He didn't give a ship. There's like his little A lot of gobblers are get like defensive and stuff. Yeah, hearing boys, man, little wise guys. It's sent him off for corn, you know. And I freaking whack him. And then I whacked one of his buddies. Can you do when you talk? I was suggest like a like a more robust report. I don't want to overstate it, you know, um, but that dude, I opened both those birds up. His little buddy was plugged with green feed. He was completely empty. And this was like when he's going into roost for the night. He's going in empty stomach because all he cares about it lots like just lock strut, lock strut all day long, never a bite to eat. This thing has spurs on it like that. I'm gonna I promise to Steve's daughter Rosy, but I'm kind of reconsidering because i'd kind of like to six year old child. I kinda yeah, it gets sicker. I I was fancy about gluing him to the end of like popsicle sticks and then flicking people with him elbow. You know, Land, you got anything you need to add there? What am I gonna add to? Speaking for all turkeys. We've we've been talking a lot. You're good, Matt, Yeah, sorry about that. No, no, no, it was a great quick side point. It's best thing to happen. Um We've been talking a lot about cat human mountain lion human cat human conflicts, and then there's even an art like there's an ABC News article about the increase in cat human conflicts. Um. Now, if you go to ABC News for wildlife reporting, uh, it's like going to Michael Moore's website for gun reviews. But uh, uh, big story on cat human conflicts, and it goes into this deep history of how we came to have like why do we have these these burgening, like growing populations mountain lions expanding in the new train all the time and more and more mountain lions. And the story starts out on a kind of a like a factual note where it says that, you know, in the forties and fifties, we were running these bounty programs from mountainlins and paying people year round to kill mountainlins. And then we curtailed those systems, started regulating mountain lions as a big game species and introduced harvest quotas, closed seasons, all kinds of regulations around it, and we started doing a lot of conservation work to recover dear and elk populations. And as we improved dear and elk populations and stop paying, uh, you know, stop paying people to kill cats without any consideration of seasonality or bag limits, we you know, basically through this thing we called the North American model of wildlife conservations started growing mountain lion numbers. But here's the rub. It's like a positive article about how great it is that we have a bunch of cats around, But then they're like you can see the writers start to sweat. We're like, how can I turn this into an anti hunting article because I kind of dug a hole for myself, like regulated honeying. We got all these mountain lions, they kind of these hunters like kind of recovered deer and elk, and there's all this food on the landscape now. And so then they get to getting crafty and they're and they go on to say that, uh, in fact, they kind of forgot that. They're saying how good it is that we've got some mountain lions. And then they're like, oh, it's kind of a bummer that we have all these mountain lions. Because we have all these mountain lions is because hunters kill old mature mountain lions. And everyone knows that old mature mountain lion will kill all the other mountain lions around. So now that we kill the old mature mountain lions, uh, the little ones live and they go and spread around, and they're young and they go to strike out and colonize new areas, and that leads to conflicts of humans, and that just goes to show you how bad hunters are. Um and you start are getting lost in the logic of a little bit and then the real singer. In the end, they point out that, you know, California band mountain lion hunting, and they now have the lowest per capital rate of human mountain lion conflicts. And I got to think of myself, they also have the lowest per capital rate of people who have never encountered a treat. So, uh, excavators in southern Indiana found massid on bones. Well, before we leave the mountain lion thing. Uh, you guys probably talked about this because it was all over the news about this guy that killed the mountain lion. Yeah, but you know what, Yeah, I know it was a small one and all that he never went out. He was not like I am, the great man's the world's greatest man. He was. He was very, very, matter of very. But the reason I would bring this up because I want to give you. I want to give you an opportunity to um apologize to me publicly, okay, because as you were called, that's very I I took a lot of ship from you and Dan, our other brother, and all our friends growing up because I had a firm, heartfelt belief I wasn't too worried about prayers because I always felt like I could just grab him by the juggler and choke him out. That's not your turns out. That wasn't your plan. That wasn't your plan, your lying, No, your plan, No, no, your plan, your plan in the event of a grizzly attack, I'll remind you of your plan. Your plan was, that is, he explained to me, as you get him by the bottom teeth and by the top teeth and hold his mouth agape until he's tired and worn out and you walk way. I feel that was what was explained. That that was the that was the pepper spray equivalent. Dude, I'm out of this podcast. I can't. I there might be some truth to that, because there's a old Latvian folklore story called lodge Classes and literally the name lodge plass is and lots is is bear too. Plays is the verb to rip, lodge plass is the bear ripper. And aside from spreedy this which is another story we won't I won't get into all the Latvian folklore stories I know about the characters, but large Classes is like he's the man from Latvian folklore and he saved his mother from a bear by doing just that. I think he continue to pull until he ripped him, until he ripped. That gives me an idea for my popsicle stick flick them. So what's his name? And they would tell stories about him? Yes, they always end the same way. I think you just did. There's just one story. You know what he did that? Well, what did you do to that bear? Dad? Well, let me tell you. Excavators in southern Indiana found masodon bones on an old family farm. I was reading about this and uh. In the article the farmer cited the discovery as an example of just how much things have changed around here. Minnesota's governor. Minnesota's governor I always like to point out in the office once occupied by Jeff c. Ventura, UH, Governor Tim Walls just did an out about face UH to announce his opposition to wolf hunting. Um and like to paint his opposition to wolf unding. He's taken the call at sport hunting. Meanwhile, he just went out on a the Governor's turkey hunt, which is kind of a symbolic turkey hunt, and then turns around and expresses his disapproval around wolf hunting, and um, sport hunts a little thing you use when you want something to look bad. But I wonder if he felt that his governor's turkey hunt is subsistence hunting. I don't know. Um another governor story, your daver he stayed over in Washington just legalized hunters pink, which you know, we all know that this is gonna bring in legions of new hunters who you know, I don't, I don't hundreds of people that weren't participating due to the available palette of safety clothing. But in Washington to change the law, they have to bring it for the governor's signature. And you I just like have this image in my mind when your governor like running this big state, you know, and all these like huge companies are there and things going on, and then one day guys like, uh, you know, I hate to do this to you, but you're gonna have to say sign this bill here and he's like, what is this will? This is what this does allows people to wear uh pink while hunting. And he's like, oh, wonderful, let's get this. Let's get this executed. That's always like a bunch of old guys. They're standing there right, let's execute this. This will be made law now. Um, if you guys had to rate, uh, and I know it's not fair, except talking to a bunch of guys right now. Um, what do you think, like how effective is I think nine states? Washington? I think it's the ninth ninth state two allow blaze pain. If you had you can just like what do you think about it? And you could and stuff like this where I don't really care. I kind of have this thing where you could be like yeah, or you could be like yeah, or you could be like yeah, right. That would be sort of the range of my You just took all my answers then, so I'll be like yeah, yeah, yeah. How do you like do you feel it's gonna have an impact? No? No, I want to pull the women in the audience. What do you think pink out there? Give me a woo for pink. If you're more in pink, then you wouldn't orange or in the nine States. I don't. I don't have a problem with it. No, you're taking me wrong. I don't have a problem with it. I don't care. I just I don't care what color because I think in a lot of states hunters orange rules are necessary. I just feel like it's a uh, I just feel like it's talking about something that it isn't really gonna do anything. That's all, yeah, where what color you want? But just I just don't think if they're passing the bill thinking this is gonna grow hunter numbers, I think that's just like we gotta lick now we got them. I mean, with all the barriers, I don't think that's the one we should be working on. Right. You don't know that that's the one. There's been any the other ones. You could take that same time and energy and just like simplified like a page or two in the Big Game regulations, and that probably would have gotten more taking a pink take it a pink highlighter and highlighted all the bullshit. That would have done better. Or you would take that energy and clarify once and for all. If you're in a state where you have to have on an orange vest and you put a backpack on, are you now legal or illegal? That would be helpful to know. Uh. Speaking of big cats US fish and while the services put out there Jaguar Recovery Plan which is super are interesting and it's it's great that there. It's great that this is happening. And part of the jaguar recovery plan comes down to identifying habitat in the US. And the trouble was they assembled this thing is there, limiting their definition of the recovery unit two places that only had observation where observations have been made since nineteen sixty two. So the recovery unit winds up having this arbitrary northern border of I ten, which for the US just gives you like a fingernail clipping of the US as being jaguar area. And they're ruling out hard evidence that's pre nineteen sixty two, hard evidence of jaguar habitation in New Mexico, Western Texas, Central and northern Arizona. And then of course they're ruling out anecdotal evidence of jaguars in California, you in Louisiana. So I think it's great that they're thinking about this, and I would love to see jaguar recovery going on. I mean, it's kind of like jaguars in the US. We sometimes have one, maybe sometimes too for lucky, probably never any more than that. Uh, speaking of distractions, right, of all the stuff that needs to be done and to think that like we're making laws about what, like you know, making the color palette bigger for safety clothing. Um, what do you guys feel is jaguar recovery? Is it just too far out there and too radical that it's a distraction from other stuff we should be working on, or do you think it's like okay to sit around thinking about this every day? Like I do all parts matter? Mant cariboo, Like, like what were we gonna do about cariboo? I think all parts matter? And if they were here, I think we should try. Yeah, because that's what the thing is that you get into this bait, like like if you're gonna base good enough on present, you know what I mean, if you're gonna say, like, okay, environmentally, ecologically, wildlife, habitat, hunting opportunities baseline is right now, that's cool, like to hold the line. But if they had said that in nineteen forty that they were going to hold the line, we wouldn't be doing a third of the things that we're doing now. Haunting fishing is that much better now than it was in ninety and we've learned a lot since then, right, Like we're better at it, so That's where the struggle becomes because some people are so offended by the idea of thinking about jaguar recovery. But then it's like you say, any like how do you decide? Like when we look at like the landscape and go like, what are we striving for here? Um? Is it nineteen sixty two? There's eighteen sixty two. I don't really know the answer, man. The opportunity is so so huge because of the jaguar issue is an international issue, and Mexico is so diverse in wildlife. Like if we can use the jaguars trojan horse like our green decoys, um two, make some serious back and forth with old Mexico, we could we could have a lot a lot of positive effects on our side of the border as well. Yeah, I get what you're saying. Like the Apex thing where if you're looking at connectivity for jaguars was a real trickle down Yeah, absolutely trickle down benefits. I like Ryan's point. Another point I'd make though about things like this that it always kind of um interesting to me that that uh we stipulate these time points is like um, reference conditions, and we want to return it, like return to that time or that reference state, you know, and it kind of I think it kind of ignores, how um to some extent, the way population dynamics work. I mean, those sorts of things. The spatial distributions of animals and plants are always in flux. So to try to take some static point and make it that that's going to be the benchmark seems a little misdirected to me. Well, yeah, I mean I think it becomes especially misdirective when you look at people the rewilding movement of people who when they set their clock, they set their clock to the clsn sn Holo scene transition to the point where they're like, they were like, well, let's repopulate North America with camels, horses, the African lion because that's the closest approximation to the American lion that we had, and bringing packet erms elephants to try to, you know, replicate the I mean, I look at that and I think it's silly. But I look at someone saying that that we should recover jaguars, it doesn't feel silly. Like I don't know how to find the date, and I don't know that it is a date thing, right, Yeah, to me, it's more of a plausibil on the on the side of them being able to habitate where they're capable habitating, I guess yeah. But like the reference condition thing, maybe maybe I got uh skin in the game. Like if that was applied to turkeys, I wouldn't have shot the king King. It's a good point, man. If you said we're gonna set things back to nineteen seventy four, you just lost every turkey hunter in Michigan, and well definitely every turny under here, you know, because there were zero turkeys at that point. So I'm saying, toying with dates, You're right, it's a good point. Toying with dates is dangerous. Whatever the hell nineteen sixty two came from, I don't know, and the myriad of condition rat and she's like, well, this is the one thing that's just never the case that I'm aware of. But if you've ever seen a photo of a jaguar standing on snow, I would pay a lot of money to see that for real life. I just think that's like, it's the biggest, baddest thing in the Western hemisphere. That's like, that's the opportunity, right, that's the dream that's still like we can actually reach that, which I think is pretty awesome. Yeah, I would like to get him up to the point where there's a tag draw. Yeah, well now we see your decoy. You're like, yeah, we need more. You guys are missing the point the big dream here. More predators eat more game animals. The less game animals are out there, the less hunters we need, less opportunity land. He was telling us this thing about jaguars earlier in the green Room Secret plot less hunting through predation. What's the point of having that gun? There's nothing to shoot. Jaguar has got them all. No, but it is it's like you're asking for something tricky, and I realized that it's like the thing that like, the thing that I'm asking for and the thing that I'm sort of after in life is hard for a lot of people to understand because because i'm you look at it and you'd be like, oh, you know, we want mountain, we want mountains, we want honorable numbers of mountain lions and opening people's access to the resource. And you look at something like jaguars, and I think a lot of hunters be like, why would I want to invite competition, Why would we want to have another animal on the landscape that consumes game. But I would just look at it as like sort of increasing just the like increasing the species abundance you talking about. I was curious, like I'm I don't know this, so maybe some other people here don't either, But like how long ago would you have to go back before it's like a common occurrence to see him in the US? I think that if you I think if you went back to the nineteen fifties, you'd have there weren't just ones. It wasn't onesies twosies. If you go back to the hunters where they like see you one a week, no very I don't know if you see one a week, but they're very definitely here and probably a much wider distribution. Yeah, I mean, what you want to write like some of the best advocates for mountain lions or mountain lion hunters, so you know, at some point you can hunt on like jaguars, right, like you'd have like the Jaguar unlimited or whatever, you know, I mean maybe not on the foundation, you know, really, I you know, I mean that's like that's the way this thing works. Jaguar Limited sure, but that's the We've talked about that a lot, and that's the higher part of people to understand, is like what the people that wound up really pushing to get the mountain lion thing right? It was mountain lion hunt absolutely, like we want them here, we want hunable numbers here. We don't want this to go away. We're gonna ensure our access the resource, and we're gonna guarantee the resource and perpetuity and and they kind of drew up what the plan would look like. And have respect for those animals, yea, like nobody knows them better than those lion hunters. It's like that, I love my animals. That's what I want to shoot him. Here's going with you guys? Uh, how big is a spot? Meaning you take someone out to a spot when you okay you okay, yeah, you take someone it's listen, it's a great one. I recently had. I recently had a buddy who took someone to a spot and then just recently found out that they just hunted one creek over creaker. Yeah, listen, I was there. It's a crick Uh. There was tires all if yeah, if like the we said, like Patrick Man as if there's a tire in it, a crep, it's crep, like if you I know Callahan recently said to me that a lot of times I'd rather someone just didn't. I'd rather not go with someone somewhere. Were you telling me? This was this? Rammy telling me this? This was I think this is me. I'd rather not have somebody take me someplace. Yeah, there was you, because it might be uh freaking sweet place and in a few years I might discover it on my own. And now I have to cross off the map because somebody showed it, Like, don't even show me, because I'll eventually find it, and when I find it, I'm gonna dominate. Or if he if he gets drunk and slips up and tells you where it is, it's a fair game. So I don't take me there? But would you like to go get a beer? So what about the rule? What about the rule? Like if you don't take anybody else there, you can go there by yourself? That exist? That yeah? So okay, So so that's what I want to get you? Here? Is it? Yeah? Like okay? So so let's say that here's the table and this table is this table is whatever we want to imagine it as this table could be. It's it's a mile wide, it's ten miles wide, it's it's acre state game area, and someone takes you and you explore that over there, and then you say like, hey, we're gonna have it. We go and we have a great day, we shoot some ducks, and you're like, listen, um, I don't want you to go back to my spot. What does that mean? You don't ever actually say that, dude? Yes, yeah, yeah, but you established that before. You didn't even have to say it. It would be like it was. It's very onset. Do you understand. I feel like you're hunting with the wrong dudes, And at the end of the day you're like a love your brother. That was awesome. High five. By the way, you know you can't come back here, right? Yeah? Well, no, I don't think you put it that way. I think you put it like I think you put it like you're like, you know what, man, it's a sweet little spot. It's kind of it can get burned out pretty bad. Um, I'd love to hunt it again. But we should just be really careful. We should be real careful and not kind of blow it up because it's not good for anybody when you blow it up. We should just sit tight on it. If you put it like that, I'd be right back in there next day. You should have told me not to go back in there, dude. Like I asked Ni for some I just remember kind of hunt in general. I have somebody for some turkey hunting spots recently. And it's like thousands of acres of national forests where I was headed to and I said, Yanni, is there any spots? And this is thousands of acres and he goes and it's between two towns and he goes, well, somewhere between these two towns, you'll find something. And when I first read the text, I wrote back like, thanks man, you're such a good friend. And then I got there, I'm like, oh yeah, oh yeah, somewhere between the two towns, which means the entire national forest. Thanks you. What happened when you went there to turkeys? Right away? Right in between the two towns where he said they listen, I had a situation where I would hunt this spot for turkeys here, and I'd just just to help out my actual question, get get tighter, am it? It is a a singular spot and we would hunt this spot and I'd always ask about this other place that you can see. That means I'm wanted to really because because I wanted to get some people so people can understand. There's a road and the road forks, and we would always go to the right fork, and I would always ask about the left fork, and it was said that I do not hunt over there, but I know there's birds over there. Okay, now I'm getting clear picture. Now the next season, everybody schedules all jazzed up. I'm like, hey, are we hunting opening morning? No, I can't hunt opening morning. I already made commitments to go over here. And I was like, all right, well it cool if I go try that left fork. It's like, yep, have at it. I brought somebody from work under like I was like, hey, now, yeah, oh yeah, I'm not on your get to the right park and he's like you put on there and You're like, no, but I know there's birds there. And it was immediately apparent that this was a very poor decision. And then it was then hammered home upon me for let's say a decade, that that was a very poor decision and to just basically stayed there out of this county by going who's that poet? It was like you to the fork in the road road the wood. Yeah, two rolls the verge in the wood and Ryan Callahan killed the bird and the right fork man was mad that you went to the left fork, or that you took someone to the left took someone to the left fork. It's like, you don't. He's like, but do not ever. And I'm gonna go ahead and remind you this for every turkey season in perpetuity from here on out. Take anybody else anywhere near here. Meaning this, I'm holding my hands very wide apart this gener this like this region of the world. I'm like, well, there's turkeys eight hours north of here, so I guess I'll go there. Yeah. It's it's really hard. It's so there's no way to there's no way to explain it. Spot dynamics, I mean, probably the best way to void hurt feelings and just get very explicit. You get out the map and your circle and you go if I take well, first you have to guys, you have to agree ahead of time. It's like I'm about to put a circle on the map, and if I I'm not gonna tell you where the circle is gonna be. But if you if you really want to go hunting with me in my spot, then you won't go inside this circle without me. Yeah, it's almost like friendships. It's so and you're like this the circle is gonna roughly resemble the outline of the state of Montana. It's like friendships would be there. There's some things that are awkward, but it would really be helpful in friendships, Like if if someone took you to a spot and then you're driving home, you're like, my god, what I like to go back there again? If you could just be like, you know, you just took me do a spot, it's great. I am sitting here really kind of plotting and figuring about like what I could get away with before you felt that I screwed you? Would you mind telling me like like, can we get out the map and talk about your feelings? Should you see me here your feelings? Should you see me with my buddy? Like what exactly are we talking about? It? From blue to blaze red? Yeah, anybody's like if I saw you here, I'd be curious man, not mad. Curious. Curious. Pink or Blaze are sons like a it's like a hunting prenup. Yeah I saw you here. I'd be really pissed. It should be like it should be a layer that you can download on. Its great that that is a good on X piece man of something like. Yeah that this thing like a like a buffer zone app part of the app or everything like that layer is gonna cost you two bucks, but I strongly suggest you download. We had a guy to recently right in a thing you're coming by on Extra Miami. He wrote in and you know when you're reading history books about you know, like explorers, and you were dying to kind of know like where they went and how they're route, Like if you're reading about John Coulter and where he went and his big walk about um, he opens when he's reading history Western history, he opens up on X so he can get a better sense of like they went through this pass and they went down that river and he can kind of follow and it really brings history alive to be able to see those routes finagling through Well dirt myth who's running around here tonight. He's got a great story about he and his brother on a motorcycle trip through uh uh Chile. I believe that's what I said, Cambodia and starts to they get they get lost, and he he and his bro are talking with some folks in this tiny little town village and they lay a map out, a map of where it wasn't Cambodia, someplace in Cambodia, and uh, they're blown away because they've never seen their area contextualized on a map. And they were kind of like, we're that close to their r Yeah, yeah, stacked in there. Yeah. That was my favorite story about We went to hunt Dug during we're hunt down in Wisconsin, not on Dug during his place, but we're over in uh hunting with some other dudes, and Doug is kind of burned up that we'd go to all that way and hunt with another crew and we're hunting his town called Elroy, and Dougs talking about Elroy like it's like, oh my god, over in Elroy, you know, and like Elroy is like this other part of the state. It's kind of like they'd be like people you know, from Miles City thinking about Bozeman or something. Right, it's like, oh my god, those people over there in Elroy and going on on the one day, we decided to drive over and sea dog. It's like, we drive like a mile down the road and we're at Duck's house. Hey, hey, I need to help me with this. But um, some of the details about we haven't talked about. The most cynical approach to hunting somebody's um spot, not having them get mad at you because of a technicality, involves Danny, our brother in Fairbanks. Involves gross hunting. We'll leave some of the names out. Leave the names out. My understanding there was my brother was gonna take. My brother and his buddy are taking another guy hunting grouse. People are all surprised if people you can hunt rough people hunt rough grouse in Alaska. So they're going hunt rough grouse and there's a guy that's kind of he's a little bit of a snake in the grass and I've seen his first hand. I've seen this first hand with him. But they drive to the spot and all of a sudden, he changed his mind once they get to it, doesn't want to hunt anymore. Oh, something came up, something came up, and goes home and then he starts hunting that spot. The next day, they saw his car park there because He's like, well, you never took me to the spot. Remember we got there. We got there and I had to go home, and then he took it and then made it his spot, which is low blows like that Seinfeld episode where he's like, no, you owe me dinner, but I only had suit doesn't count. Here's one Um, why does it seem this is me thinking this, Why does it seem less wrong? Two slip across if someone's fence, say and pick a morrel, then it does to slip across their fence and kill a deer. You know what I'm saying. Like that, you'll t there's like a sort of like if you gotta like duck over onto someone's land real quick. It's kind of like what you're doing feels like it makes it more or less wrong. This is from bad when I was younger and we just went wherever we want degrees there, if you slip across the fence and steal his car, it's even worse. Yeah, exactly, Yeah, it's like you're right now that you put it that way, I realized's just like I went across the fence came back with his wife. That was a problem. It's you're right. It's just a value. It's not wild it's not like a wildlife thing. It's like what was the value of what? Yeah, you go and get a deer. It's just like a Ronnella family thing, like, oh, there's a mushroom. Oh no, it can't. I'll fudge the line for a morrel because my in my mind, I feel like a mushroom is ephemeral. And so if I see let's just say, you look and it's like a beautiful oyster mushroom or like a chicken of the woods, and it's just across the line you're driving on the road, and it's ephemeral, it's not gonna be there, and it's already been there, no one's picked it yet, and you just picture it's just gonna rock. It just seems different to scoot over and grab it. I would never do millionaires cross a fence and go like take game off someone else's property, But I would slip a little ways over perhaps to grab mushrooms. And if we're speaking in the context of now, when we were younger, you're basically saying, well, somebody would notice the deer, and that's why I wouldn't take the deer. Yeah, it's probably a little bit of that thrown in. Yeah, but I mean we're speaking. I'm just saying that you're weighing the severity of the punishment as you slip or jump or don't. Yeah. Now, I don't like, I just don't um. I have like I've gotten to the point where it's like you sort of have this like what what's there to lose kind of thing, And yeah, man, I can't get you to trespass at all anymore. Okay, I wanna it makes turkey hunting extra tongue the good old days. I had The other day, I was hunting with a new turkey hunter and you know, the first time hunter, and we're hunting, and we were standing on a fence line ron national forest, and I'm explaining how we're trying to bring up birds off call birds off private property on the national forest, and uh, that's not intuitive for some people. And I had to be like listen, I had. I was just feel like, this isn't even shady, like this isn't like a weird thing. This is just how the world works. Man. This is like if the owner was standing right there, I still I wouldn't like act like I was doing something else. I mean, this is just like we're just playing ball man, We're calling birds off that dude's property. And the reaction of the new hunter was like what that fits that little fits? No, it was it was it was more that that was sketchy. Yeah, it was more like like, well, the minute their car, like, I want to steal that car. The minute they drive off their property, I'll grab it. Ah. That's how she felt we were being She didn't realize this is just how. And I explained to her that the thing that wounded up being an effective. Thing that I explained to her is I was like, here's the thing right now, as residents of this state, we actually own that turkey. That landowner owns access to it and can control access to it. But right now our turkey is over there, which is true, which is true. So we just need to get it back over to the area where we have access to pick our thing that we own. U Um, the thing I want to get into real quick. If we talked about things like that. A lot of times I like to ask people like, what's the thing your most hot on right now? Cooking wise, what's the dish your most hot on? But I wanted to change it up, because there's a couple of things I've been wanting like that I ever heard about that been wanting to make. So I'm inviting you in whatever order to talk about, like what is the wild game dish you most want to make but haven't gotten around to yet. If you need to think about it, I'll start. A guy explained to me recently, you don't even make corn fee. He said, there's a thing called Appalachian cuse. Like when you make corfee, like take goose thighs or duck thighs or even like like beaver thigh and heure it like with a dry rub and then clean the dry rub off, and then you just simmer it in fat until it's tender, just like the same way if you centered something in water to crock pot, will eventually get tender tender when you simmer it in fat, and then you store it in the fat. And he was saying that when he was this guy was something when he was a kid, his grandpa would make venison meatball and then he would cook the meatballs always done or sorry, like sausage breakfast sausage balls. Did you cook venison breakfast sausage? You cook all the balls and then you get them all done and you pack them in a jar, and then he would pour a lard over it and just start like that. And he called the Appalachian corn feet and store breakfast sausages, and he said it was the perfect camp food because they're all cooked and you just dredge them out of their thromb on a pan reheat them. I've been wanting to make Appalachian corn feet, and the only I want to make as if you heard of a duck press. Yeah, Like it's the thing you do where you cook a duck. Um, you cook it away until the till the meats perfect. Hold duck. You cook it until the meat is perfect on the breast, and then they'll cut the breasts off, so you cut the breast officers still rare, and then they cook the duck the rest of the way. And then the duck presses it can trap and that just comes down. It's like this giant hand crank on it and it squishes that to squeeze every last god forsaken drip of fat and blood and goo and anything that will ever come out of there out of there. And and and that is a sauce with which you serve. The duck is pretty damn interesting, man. So Appalachian caln fee and a duck press are two things I like to be more involved with. Mine would be like a redo with something I screwed up a few years ago. I pit roasted a bunch of animal hams, Like, like, how you do a pit roasted hog? Yeah? Yea dark a hole with skits deer, and burned cotton wood in it all night and then put that antelope and I think we put it wrapped him in tinfoil the hams, and then put wet, wired, wet burlap ram and buried him. And I should have known that that was not a good idea because because what reason is that not a good It's just so freaking dry, man, Like, there's just no people were this. We had a big PERI people were eating it, and like if they were inhaled as they were taking a bite, they'd like get antalope dust and and start choking like they had antalope silicosis. It's like, I would love to do that again, but just large the ship out of that, because I think it would be delicious if you did that. Smoke some fish with conwood and how metallic. It tasted, but yeah, but I think it's when you put in the ground out are you really smoking? It's more just like who else like to share? So I'm in h you talked duck, so I should allowed ducks. Last night, Ryan Bustle, he's just sitting right over here. You made this like duck crackman, so like pork, you know, pork, h like cheat your own exactly. It was absolutely delicious and so it was something new that I haven't done with duck before. Now this whole press thing, I don't there. It's actually a contraption or is it something else that you use? You should go look up duck presses because they're actually recorny like brass, really expensive antique duck press. I mean you can also use your truck, but like two cast iron skillets in the truck. But yeah, like a duck press is a thing, man, It's like a mechanical thing. But this duck Crackman last night was like it was delicious, so wild duck skin absolutely and like little teeny pieces, like little teeny pieces and putting that on top of something else, you know, like that was I didn't get to see what you put it on top of I just got to see like that little teeny piece, And ever since I had that last night, I can't wait till this next fall. Yeah, So eat the duck meat, take the pluck skin to make crack ones. We took one time a wild pig and made. One thing we did that was interesting is we made our own sausage casings. We took all that bit I don't know, twenty ft of intestined out of there, and you had to turn it inside out and scrape every last square inch that thing and just scrape and scrape and scrape, and eventually get it down to where it's right. Then turned it back inside out and flush it all out. And holy sh it, does that make you appreciate? So does it really look like hog gut? That dude when we were done with it. When we were done with it, it was no different than any brought you ever had. It was just a labor intensive process to scrape it down. When you got in your hand, it's like an umbilical cord and you scrape it until it's thin, until it thin thin, and it's it's it's tempted. But we made like we made the odds. We made it we made the cracklings. Yeah, we made the cracklings. It was really good. But I never thought I'm not ready to drop this. I never thought to try it with Um, I'm not. I'm not wanting to let that quite stand the way, speaking of all those topics that we sort of covered numerous times, and he's gonna let him, you know, let him be. Yeah, this seems like, yeah, he's always make trying to make me look like a Unich on stage. I no, Um, it's to my benefit, it's some I realized. Uh, And I like you to go your own path in life. It's to my great benefit that you did not have children, because um, you have that much more love to pour upon my kid. I texted you about this then. I was telling you right now in front of everybody, that I was very grateful like the I was watching videos of you with my kids and just like the wonderful dynamic that you've created with them of just being very much like on equal ground with them in conversation. No, no, I'm not. No, you take this the wrong way. I'm not dogging. I'm expressed it the wrong way. There's the way that people they got a way they talk to kids. In the way they act with kids. And it's nice when someone can just be with them and like hang out with them and not be like, you know, to intellectually. Yeah, no, just like like kids listen, you know I'm talking that ship. Yeah, because they're like there's a dolls and the kids just don't want to hang with and whatever. And it's because they talked to him in some like weird way as opposed to like just get Oh yeah, they overdo it. I'm the crazy man, you know, like, yeah, like, oh it's crazy uncle man again. Look what's this? I pulled your nose off. Look but to my fingers, you know, like that suit yea, let me give my turkey suit on anyway, I'd like to eat some turkey liver pat. That's what I was going to say to you. Yanni just made so you're we could do this because your thing that you'd like to make, Yanni made it. Oh yeah, so we could make you want to make. Ben's already made. We're making up from that whole spot. Turkey cord on blue. Yeah, you turkey cord on blue. I got a problem though, you make wild turkey cord on blue. I've been thinking I wanted to make that. I gotta it's delicious. I got a big problem, though, and I feel like it's easily solved. But what I do is take a wild game and then I put non wild game inside the wild game and roll it up. Is that is this, sue? Is that an issue? I feel guilty? You. Yeah, you need to get some like a wild bore um maybe like a deer hammer's access to your hamd and like cut it real thing. It's normally isn't it normally ham It's normally hamd like poor cam. Yeah, that's what I put in it because my kid likes it and my wife likes it. But then I feel gil tea. But I think it's a weight thing. An he smoked salty hand would probably work. When you're eating deer burger that you cut in with ten percent pork fat, is it not? It's still deer burger now if it was pork. But then I'm like, is a wild game or not? I don't know. It's something different now, but ten percent I regard as wild game. If you wait out the turkey in the ham it's still wild game. It only becomes I don't know at what point. I think maybe around forty percent that it becomes like you can't tell if it's wild game. Any I felt that you might chide me for this because I was over at your house one time when you weren't there and your kids were was his wife there? His wife was there. Yeah, we were eating dinner, the whole families eating dinner together, and we were it's my boss here. We're eating dinner, and they there was a chicken item in the dinner, and your and your child a Rosy looked at me and goes, don't tell dad. I was like, don't tell dad what? She just like held the chicken up. So I felt that you might chide me in the way that you would chide them for eating chicken. No, No, that is that I'm into the court on blue deal. It's so funny that because I thought about making it, and I had the same reluctance you've made it at Ham, But like, what about I honestly had the same thought. But what about like a another option to be like some thinly sliced smoked bear Ham. We'll do that, Yanni and I are gonna kill a bear on bruin there. I like it. You know what I'm gonna cook this year for the first time ever. Yeah, you haven't gone yet, real jack about it. It's just gonna be a thick, simple steak, little salt and pepper, little olive oil, maybe char up lemon on the grill, pitch that on top. It's gonna be big horn cheap as soon as this Montana draw comes out. Because you're feeling good about your point oh seven percent chance pulling that tag. I was super panicked at the office and then we were at the deadline and I hadn't put any thought into it. So I just kind of shotguns in some numbers into the system and paid my money, and for some reason, I'm feeling really good about it. Did you do If you did a U tag, if you did a big horn you tag, you have reason to be optimistic. I'd be pumped. Did you do you tag? I think I don't, like I said, man, it was just like, I mean, yeah, yeah, I was. I couldn't figure out where you were going with that. I was like that I do that kind of like every day, So you want to have it would be like if you were talking about sexual positions and Ryan's like, yeah, there's this one I want try, or the man gets on top and the woman was laying on her back. Okay, go ahead, go ahead. You sound like a man who's been around. Uh, we need to go ahead. We want to move on to see him through the bullshit. Oh that kind of go ahead. No, no, go on with the thing you want to make. Oh you're did at court on blue and you want to make the liver. But we just had to lift the turkey liver. Pat a, can you walk through jacque Pepine? Can you walk through your Jacque Pepine liver recipe again? Jack? You have a yolking there. No, no, what do you mean when you said that again? You've already done it? Yes, I did it last year too. Oh just hear them real fast. You take a turkey liver. Take a turkey turky liver. I usually soak it in cold water for a few days, rents out the water a bunch. It's every time you do that, it seems to be some blood that's leaving the turkey liver. I trim it up. I found that they way the recipes for a half pound of livers. The tricky liver is usually coming in and right about five ounces, so you're just over half of what the recipe calls for by just half the recipe, and then you bring it up to temple. I think like maybe a half a cup of water. There's a bai leaf in there. Ah, it's maybe like a pinch of time. It's real simple. There's not much else in there. You bring it up to temp as soon as it boils, you cover it, you turn it off, You let it sit for like two or three minutes. You just barely want to cook it. Um, you take it out of there, you take it all out of the water, you take the baileafal you put into a food processor? Is selling food process? Yeah? More generally you're just talking dirty to me right now, man, Um, And you got like basically seasoned liver mush at that point. And then I believe for that even halved you go with I want to say, it's ten or twelve tae spoons of butter. So at that point again, yeah, you're kind of you're threading that line, but it's so good man wild game anymore. But yeah, you drop them in two tablespoons at a time. You keep going, and then I think you the last thing is like a tablespoon of coniac brandy whiskey, whatever you want um season with salt and pepper, put into a ramicking, cover it and throw it in the fridge overnight, and the next day you have Oh it's good, it's good. They're the butter like the wild game or not thing. It's wild game because when you taste it, it's like it's turkey liver. Man. Yeah, it's like a really good turkey liver. And it's also like, it's just cool to bill to use the turkey's livery because I think the vast majority of turkey livers that come out of turkeys out a wild turkeys in this country are not getting turned into pet terry anything else for that matter. Listen, you didn't turned into magpie or crowpoop. I cubed up a turkey liver, like draft a turkey cubed up turkey ever, put it on skewers, salt, pepper, olive oil, put it over charcoal, and by anyone's account, overcooked it. And that liver was absolutely phenomenal. Yeah, this is a week ago, and I have no idea what happened to that liver during that process, but it was very, very good good. There was a little creek wash in there too. Add that to your recipe Washington Creek. Uh, how are we going to determine who we're gonna who's gonna come up to play? See him through the bullshit? Should we talk about what they get to win when they come up? So seeing seeing through the seeing through the bullshit is our collaboration with with vortex optics because they he'll be cut through. They help you see through the bullshit, tell them, tell them how what they're gonna win what you may or may not. Came out with a revised version of a laser range finder. It's called the new one is called the Razor h D four thousand, and it is a bad mo fall one thousand yards and I believe I can't quite remember which I think out to a thousand you can get um up to the it reads in tenth of a yard. Increments exactly what that's for? Like, I don't dial my skulk in the tenth of a yard, but some there might be some people out there that do. But like it's how precisely top of the high or bottom of the eye. Yeah, Um, all the modes you could ever want. It's super easy to use, very intuitive piece of equipment. Um, I've ranged a bunch of trees where this turkey that I'm trying to kill is supposed to walk by, and it's been great for that. I haven't ranged the turkey himself yet, but it's it's coming. So how I'm gonna pick um the person is gonna get to play? Is I'm gonna have Land give me some numbers, and I'm gonna have broken the room kind of into some sections. So can I just go for it and get our person up here? Okay? Already numbers? No, no, right now, I'm gonna ask Land to pick a number between one and six, three, three, okay, so it's we got the seats broken up in sort of sections. So one to three, section three, someone between here and the back row back there. Now, pick a number between one and uh eighteen fifteen, so fifteen rows back from right here, and now a number between one and twelve, seven and seven? Is it? Bring them up? All right? Oh? Does everybody feel good about that? We're really worried. Guys will be like, that's rigged. That's his buddy. We know that guy. I don't know this guy's coming up here. Pretty cocky. It's your honest wife, kid me, all right, come on out? Okay, So here's how the game works. The game works. But we're gonna you guys can have like a big reunion. He's on the board. Oh, he's on the board. Okay, we're gonna tell you no help from the audience whatsoever. Man, we've had audiences blow our game a bunch, and don't leave after this. We've got more things we gotta take care of. We're gonna tell you three things, three stories. One of the stories is true. Okay, you gotta identify the true story to win the prize. You win the prize, we'll probably give it to go. No, let's just late, but maybe first. What's your name, young man, Eddie Nickolas, Eddie Nikkins. Oh, the writer, Oh, the writer, Eddie Nickins. No ship, we never met. Really, this isn't gonna work. We can't have like a writer. All right, we'll try it anyway. The story is the worst I can tell you three stories. Oh, man, this is never gonna work. Go ahead, you go first, Dot me to go my story first, alright, Eddie. The government of Sweden may have accidentally just created the next best hunting dog. They to make a better service dog using what is it called crisper technology. Crisper technology decided to splice in some raccoon jeans because raccoons are known for the dexterity into a small face dog to make a dog that could actually use its pause a little bit better, maybe actually open up doors to and open them up to help people get through doors. Right. Well, Louisiana Kennel gets word of this. He's like, well, service dogs whatever, I'm thinking of hunting applications. You know, a dog that could climb trees, pulled squirrels off the limbs, running out of holes, on other arboreal animals, I'm gonna try to import him. He's having issues because he has fishing wildlife. He's like, no, no, no, you can't import these genetically modified pets. That's the story. That's the story there, g MPs. Everyone knows that after Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon Church, was killed by a mob hung by a mob, that most of his followers followed Brigham Young, who took his followers to Zion. Very few people know that there was actually a power struggle upon Joseph Smith's death, and another man with the strange name of James Jesse Strange took some number of followers up to Lake Michigan where they took the pirating and he would later die in a shootout next to a woodpile on a dock on Beaver Island in Lake Michigan. Matt, all right, Eddie, I'm so enthralled that the rule was only one of these can be truth, only one. And now that these two jokers are done, I'm gonna spit some truth thatcher. So look him in the eyes, and he look him right in the eyes. So the there uh this, this group of researchers UM have been they do like range grass improvement, and they research and they've been kicking around in the Eurasian step and they found this biotype of orchard grass which is a it's a it's a really good uh pasture grass that's that's been imported in the US. It's used a lot in food plots, um for deer um. And they found this really productive biotype that um they want to import into the US. UM and they want to they want to use it in seed mixes and pastures and in food plots. But um, they have to run through a bunch of aphist stuff, a bunch of apist testing. Well, I'm trying to get my facts straight people. Um, they have to run so aphis Yeah, Animal Plant Help Inspection Service, the the regulatory body that that governs these introductions. They had to do a bunch of testing first, and they were doing some um feeding trials with with uh what they were doing some feeding trials with captive deer, and they found that that uh, they that this biotype causes lethargy and servants. Which is they caused type Yeah, it causes lethargy and servants, which the fancy way of saying it causes deer to be sleepy. So now, like fishing game in Wisconsin, a couple of states are all up in arms and they don't want to be released because they had this video at this apist facility, these deer like walking around all their heads down the stooper. There's one laying out in the middle of a field in the middle of the freaking day. And I think it's gonna make hunting too easy another way, So let's get recap. Yeah, give us a quicklycap. Ryan, You got your sleepy dear seed product gonna be available at the big are near you. You got the first legal battle of its type with a genetically modified pet turned the hopeful squirrel dog and you have a religious offshoot wood pile demise. Do you want to use the audience to help you? No, no you can't. He's nickins, he don't need anything, and only one can be three unfortunately. Yeah. Well I'm from the South, proud to say so, North Carolina. Right, Yeah, so I'm not real big on them. My Mormon knowledge is kind of kind of thin. I'm ruling I'm ruling that out. Yeah, yeah, the uh. I'm intrigued by the biotype story, and I'm gonna have to go with that because I think, you know, from the South, if I was gonna across a raccoon with with a dog, I'd be more interested in that fort to Penis than I would being it's in it's tree climbing the build. So I got no choice but to go with the one that's really I think it's a lie too. But it's gonna number three over here. Someone not pick the truth. Oh that's happened before, it has James Jesse Strange. I messed a couple of parts. He was accused of policy. It was just shoot out. He was executed. But that's but that's what threw me. Oh you know the story. But you know what I which I thought I had. I thought I had all the facts. Well for playing today, Eddie, you still get it? There he war tech graze that we need to have. We got something we gotta do. It's real important. We need to have tell him who's got to come up? Cal They got a new chapter? Oh yeah, we had. We had vote on new chapters this year. We do every year as as a board. Um, and we need a quick review of the Illinois chapter, Seth Rokey, can you come up still in the room? Illinois members, Illinois whole chapter up here brand Illinois members up is the entirety of the Illinois chapter. Do you kidding me? Really? Yeah? Well, okay, Seth, they're very selective in Illinois. Do you wanna do you mind? Do you want to address everyone and say what you gotta say? They're about what you got going on? Yeah, I just had a quick question for pole Um while we're here. This is pou yah yah ya. Congradulations awesome, So well done, gradulations stay married a long time. We got a chapter they make it in. Oh yeah that was the review. Yeah, I mean you guys are still in so the only two members of the Illinois chapter just got engaged on the stage you tonight, Bi. Congratulations. They just told me they're gonna immediately get busy and growing that chapter. And we got we got a concluder from old Lamb Tawny. You got a time for a concluder. Oh yeah, my timer ran out at ninety nine minutes. So we're good now. So we got uh, we're in Idaho, and so I wanna talk about like an Idaho son, Ted shu Blood. You know Ted schu Blood I name, but no unfortunately. So he was a editor of Field and Stream. So it's a very revered person here in Idaho, and it's something that we've named an award after. And actually uh anthw Locata who was here, he's won that award. Anthon Clauda screaming name, Yeah, there you go. Are you here tonight? Then there was like how hearing? And what we do is since he was like this is how are you in here? How's sleeping? But like we made this award after because he was just a great writer and like to Field the Stream. We give this a word out to the greatest communicator in the world for conservation, the person that's like doing the most and Steven Ronella. We're giving you this award tonight after right here, yeah, right, all right, guys, thank you very much. This is a great honor. Well played. People got engaged. We've got an award. Uh, you know, I don't. I don't know if I have a speech, man, um, try to make a quick speech. I really don't. I've been uh yeah, it's it's been. I've been. It's been a real blessing to start out. And I had like a set of things that I wanted to talk about and it started to talk about them in magazines and books and have just been able to as media has changed and matured and or the opposite of matured. UM, have been like fortunate enough to be like continue talking about a set of ideas and watching my own thoughts about them evolve over time. And it's been nice to uh, you know, wind up in a situation where I take something that's very fun and funny and full of love and full of great people and also something that I know is is brings positive things to the world and brings positive things to other people, and to mix that all up and do it like you know, material written material, or things that you communicate that convey that that that I try to like help people realize that they love the things that they love. I grew up, Uh, you know, we grew up with all the things that we we didn't recognize that we love them. There's all these things we liked, and we just felt that they fell from outer space and it was like we were glad they were there, but didn't give a whole lot of thought to how they came to be there. Um, didn't give a lot of thought to like thanking that they are there, ensuring that they're there for future people. And that's just a sense a feeling that grew over time. And so I've been able to like work that into my work and if nothing else, I'd like to encourage, hopefully encourage people who love to be outdoors and to hunting fish to recognize that what we're talking about is that you love these things. You need to treat them like something you love. So to have the opportunity to do that again and again through time and then be uh get some recognition for it from you guys, um, it's really special. So thank you very much man, Yeah, thank you, and thank you again for everybody that came out tonight. Thank you, everybody, I thank you,

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