00:00:05 Speaker 1: Uncle Pete just laid the fish next to her on a flat surface and put a yard stick between them. I just feel like bass guys and while guys butt heads, what activity were most people doing when an unprovoked attack occurred? A windsurfing dude looks like Burt Reynolds, trout and baby dealers. Good morning to generate anglers, and welcome to Bent, the fishing podcast that always sends a friend to check ice thickness before getting out of the heated trout. I'm Joe Surmelli and I made and set back and yeah, man, that is it two or early to start with a Yeah? Man, no, it's never too early to start with that is what you would do. Man, it is, it is, and I have I have. I feel like now that I brought it up, shout out to my old buddy Frank Heater, who is likely not listening. I'm almost certain he's not. Um. Yeah, Like years ago, we ventured out to a local pond that nobody had been fishing and stood there and debated who was going to go check, and eventually we landed on him. There might have been money involved, and he walked all the way out to the Middle Sands issue made like two full turns of the auger and it just punched. And he just looks up with concern and goes about an inch and a half as the ice spider cracked in every direction and I just said, well, you should probably come back, man, And he didn't survive, and then we knew we couldn't ice fish there that day, so that worked out, you know. Yeah. I mean, unless you're like when we're talking about ice fishing on the East coast, unless you're up pretty like northerly, it's kind of a ice fishing tends to be. Uh, maybe we'll get a couple of weeks of really good ice down where you are. I mean, it's it's not even that, it's just no, it's certainly not a guarantee directly where I live. And remember I leave in like a weird zone. Um, we haven't really had good ice right here in a few years now. And if you're ever watching the Weather Channel and hear them say, because you lived here, you knew this. The rain snow line is going to fall right along the corridor between Philly and New York. That's where I live, directly on the corridors. So right now at the time of this recording. UM. Safe ice, so I'm told, is a is a few hours north, probably about two hours north. All we have here is skim ice I don't know, maybe maybe a half an inch, but looking at the long term temps, that could change quickly. And I heard your old stomping grounds in far northeast p a uh there there they have good ice at least on some of the smaller water, but that's only as of recently this season. It hasn't been that way for months or anything like that. Yeah, it was always like you would never really know how your ice fishing plans would pan out. Maybe you could get a covert tube. It seems like as late the lake would never just freeze all the way solid, especially the bigger waters like like Lake Wall and Paul Pack up there. I've I've done some ice fishing on Round Valley Reservoir in Jersey too, and every time I've done that, you are you are stuck in one cove. It's not nearly frozen all the way over. Um, But I don't know. I might be making a little run up up to your old stomping grounds very soon. Up to Wayne County. There's also loose talk with some buds about a little soare uh to Lake George in New York. The funny thing is that I gotta say what I really want is good, true local ice because when you get it right, and you know what I'm talking about, the fishing tends to be pretty damn good. Because the fish around here where I live have been largely unpressured since the fall. It's not a smooth transition like in the Midwest where you just go from fall open water to boom. Now we're on the ice. Um, So the fish here haven't really been been beat on. So if it does lock up, your your over unpressured fish. Um. And there's just not a ton of ice guys in my immediate area, but there are I know plenty in Bozeman. You never have to worry about local waters not locking up, which is what has allowed you to do a thing recently. What is the thing you've done? Last week? It was, Wally, what have you done? Now? Well, how about we play a clip dude a butter Wow? That's wow? Yes, sir, you one up me. That's what you did? You want up me? On a species, I recently said, I've never caught a bourbon, but I'm very intrigued by them, and lo and behold over the weekend, here comes a text from Hayden with a bourbon, and a lot of folks have reached out to me about that, having not caught one. So now here we are together, let's talk fight. I know nothing about them other than they're a freshwater cod. How was the brawl? So when I sent you that initial text with like the picture of the bourbon, had described them to you as a sporty catfish, and that's kind of exactly how I think about him. I felt like reeling up a channel cat through the ice. Man. It had like those kind of like half runs, you know what I mean, Like those little kind of like bulldog e things. It's not like a rainbow or or like a lake or where like strip line and like just go. It was very much a coming up going down, coming up, going down, you know. So that's what I'm looking for, right, because so many things through the ice, right, they do tend to come up quicker, like even large mouth and things, whether it's on the tip up line or a jig or whatever. I feel like a lot of times in that colder water, like the hit will be strong, but then the fish doesn't give you a ton unless you're talking about big fish like a lake or something. So that's what I was driving out, like did they make you work for it? Yeah, they definitely do. And it was interesting. You know, I want to like shout out thirteen fishing real quick, because the reservoir that we were in has a bunch of trouting it. I had the rather I used for bourbon, and I had the rod that I wanted to use for trout, and I had ended up deciding that me and my buddy we were going to sleep out on the ice and try and get that real like late night bite. And the rod that I wanted to use for bourbon was just a little bit too long to be comfortable like in the shanty set up that we had going. So I ended up using the rod that I wanted to use for trout, which was a lighter rod. I was really surprised, like the backbone that that thing had coupled with like the sensitivity, because the way that we were doing it is he was on one side of the shanty just like pulp pounding with like a big heavy jig to kind of bring him around, and I was dead stick in a chunk of a chunk of sucker meat and just watching the rod tip um, I saw the bite, really faint bite got on the rod, blasted this fish. And when I set the hook immediately, I was like you know, you when when when your ice fish and trout you at the hook, but they tend to come up with it. Now like a bourbon that's like six pounds or so, I mean, that thing stays kind of tight. But man, I popped this hook into this thing and followed them all the way up. You know, I'll probably post a video of the fight on the Instagram so y'all can see that in action if you're curious. I'm going to make one of those little safe stories there. But yeah, right on, Well, did I tell you what, even even like saltwater cod, you know, like there are a cold water fish do when you sting one deep on a jig or something. Yeah, they don't. They don't want to come up right away, like you know, you know you got something there. So that's cool, man. And since we're talking ice and you were just talking thirteen fishing, let's keep that party train rolling. We're going to jump into smooth moves our segment where we let captains and guides bitch about ridiculous things clients have done. Though today we haven't a captain nor a guide, but young Ben Schumann, one of the members of thirteen Fishings ice team. Why why did you? Oh my god? So joining us for smooth moves today is Ben Schuman? Now you are you are not a guide? Correct? No, I am not. You are not, but you are part of the thirteen Fishing Team, which we brought you here. And now what they've told us is that you are you are one of their ice guys. Specifically, is that accurate? Yes? Yea Minnesotan. Minnesotan, Okay, sounds good. Now what what they've also told me is that you are one half of what they referred to as the Bourbon Brothers. The Bourbon Brothers. I wish I was part of that. Why would they Why would they say that? I figured because I was looking at your your Instagram and some of your other stuff and I didn't see a lot of bourbon. Why why would they say that? So? Probably because so Sam More. Samore's really popular videographer and basically him and a buddy tyler of mine. I don't know if he's filmed a couple of videos of catching a bunch of bourbon and maybe, like Reid thought, I was I was with them on that or something. But all right, well thank you for coming on, Ben nixs the bourbon questions. No, man, just just kidding um. But so I read now tell me what this is because you were recently hyping this on social media. You are also one half CEO of the bass Mobile. Yeah, what is the bass Mobile? So basically I worked for Ketchko and they sent my buddy Tyl and I out on the road. Last this is Tyler Brick right, Yeah, who is also one of thirteen guys. Yes, got you on the border brothers. Your last name was Mortar. That's very that's true. So I'm sorry that bass mobile. So basically, catch COO sent us out in the Basstmobile. They created this and they sent us out on the road last year for about I think it was like five months, and we just went like all over the country and just went to like fairs, kids, school rules, We went to like fishing events, and basically our main thing was to try and rescue people from the indoors and just people get people excited about fishing. It was like a takeover where you like you literally run in and snatch them and throw them in the basket mobile and get them outside. No, that's a good idea, but I mean probably getting a little trouble trying to do that. But in some states, you know, maybe not so much. No, that's cool though, man, So okay, so then we've clarified. Now if you're if you're not a bourbon brother, because you're a hardcore bourbon angler, Like, do you have a thing on the ice that is like your favorite your go to My favorite thing to fish for on the ice is probably i'd say definitely crapp ease or you didn't say walleyes. So I like that. No, honestly, like a lot of people will get bad. They won't. I won't bring it. I'm not a big walleye guy. Yeah, I'm sorry. Like, man, why if I'm not in Canada, there's no point in fishing for walleyes? Is it like? Is it like? Is it like a number of things? It's just like, well, just just so darn. That's how I feel when I go back to Uh. I mean, obviously they're like hallowed grounds for trout in Pennsylvania, but living in Montana, now when I go back to the East Coast, I have no desire to fish for trout. Is it like a similar thing, It's just you've experienced it. It's such a level that it's just it's not comparable. I don't know, man, I've just always been like a bass guy, and I just feel like bass guys and walleye guys butt heads. So I'm like, I just kind of stick to my bath basically. Yeah, just like the picture you got earlier. Yeah, right, right right. So, I mean I've seen some of these giant crop ease on your social media, and I think that's interesting. I feel like I've all like the most popular ice targets if you break down the country. I know, I know a lot of people um crappy fish through the ice, but I feel like it takes a back seat to your yellow perch and walleye and lake trout. Um, what's what's what's different? Because even though we're here for a smooth moves like we're gonna learn something, damnit and pump you for some information. So like for the guy that that's looking for the slab croppies through the ice, and you certainly catch them like in a nutshell I'm sure you could write a book, But what's different about that approach verse jigging perch or Walleye or something like that. Wal what what's different? I'm just trying to think of like like things that I could really like highlight that's different from what about like structure. You know, I know a lot of folks. Basically when I'm like searching for crappys, I'm looking for places that have like sandy or muddy bottoms and then with with crappy fish, and I feel like you just get into a basin. And what I like to do when I'm with Buddy is whether it's a group of guys are just like myself and one other dude, drill a bunch of hole as like as many as you can and just start hopping around in that basin. And and basically what I mean, I guess if people don't really know what a basin is, it's just a pocket of deep water, uh in a lake. So if there's like a drop off or something and it's just like a it's a it's a It's kind of hard to explain, honestly, But if people like looked up like basin and no, no, no, no, no, we got we got the basin. But I think I think it's like it's not a lazy man's ice fishery, Like you need to drill and move around down and then I imagine like even with open wood crappy, you find one or two found the pile, right yeah. Yeah, And and sometimes it's it is hard because the fisher get finicky. The pressure will be weird and and the fish will either be running from you and they'll hear you drilling up on top of the ice and they're gone. You'll have days like that, well you'll you'll be drilling and you're not gonna catch anything all day. Yeah. Yeah, I've never done pies, but I've had a similar experience with white perch up in New Hampshire. Same deal. It's like you were either it was total feast or famine and by day you would attract them all or you drill and mark some and then they were just they would just disappear. That's the thing. One one week they're on a feeding frenzy. They'll bite whatever you throw down there, and then you go out there the next day and you're you're getting skunked. Yeah, but generally speaking that's way more exciting to you than walleye fishing. Yeah, I mean the thing is with like walleye fishing, like you'll go out, like I guess I've never really like went out and did like a hardcore like targeting walleye when I'm ice fishing, so like, I feel like just every once in a while you'll get like your rattle reel to go off when you're sleeping in a house or something like, oh yeah, well that's that's pretty cool. But I'm like, what Hayden. Hayden just caught his first walleye through the ice. He's been talking about it for a week and a half, so yeah, you know, it's the best part about that. I'm like, my buddy's Sam Lunger and took some photos of me like just cheesing with his wallene holding up a thirteen fish and rig. But that wall is about ten and a half twelve inches long. It's not even like it's not even like a stud wall eye. It's like one of the ones that you look at you going, that's perfect eater, you know. Yeah, yeah, it can be fun, like catching those wallyne stuff to the ice, but I feel like it doesn't get fun until you start catching the big ones. Yeah. Yeah, so we know a little bit about who you are what you do, man, but we brought you here for smooth moves. So as we said, you're you're not a guy, but you uh, you spend a hell of a lot of time on the water, so it doesn't have to be ice, can be open water, whatever. But basically, man like hit us with the most ridiculous, funny insane could have happened to you, could have happened to somebody else. Story, Um from from all this time you get to spend on the water and out there on the road. Yea, So there was I guess I could probably go over a couple of things that have had from to me over the years. But last year, I think it was last year or maybe the year before, Tyler Brick and I actually we went out onto this lake and it was right about that time where it's like kind of if you whether you should drive out or not. It's kind of like, what's not what do they say it's not if they say about a foot? I mean, I don't know. It's different in in everybody's eyes, because you'll see guys going out there when they should not be driving out like people are crazy, man. But basically we get to this lake and you could literally see where a vehicle had gone through, and I'm sitting there thinking like this is just stupid, Like what the hell is wrong with us? Like I don't know if ice fishermen just have something wrong with them, we're just crazy, like yeah, But basically, we get to this lake and see like somebody went through, and so I'm like, all right, like we're gonna drive out, We're gonna try to make it work. And so I just told her. I was like, I'm getting out of the vehicle and I'm just gonna watch what happens, because like if he goes through, then I gotta be like sitting there ready to call somebody to come and freaking rescue us. So I get out of the car. I think I think scissors that or something like it was his vehicle, man. So I was like, I was like, dude, just leave, leave your window rolled down, keep the seat. He felt unbuckled, and he'll be good. But basically I'm like, all right, just just gun it, like you'll be fine. And I think We're like one of the only vehicles that was going out there. So I'm like gosh, dude, this is is risky. But so he went down and he hammered it and his back end started dropping into the into the water breaking through. And I'm just sitting there like and it wasn't like that deep of water, but still like you're in a into a panic because if you if you drop into the water, water, like you don't have long to to live. We'll hit you so fast once you hit that cold water. And and I'm just sitting there freaking out, and I've got all these like scenarios going through my head, like oh my god, like I'm gonna have to call Tyler's parents and and let him know like we went through the ice or he went through the ice, and I'm just sitting there freaking out, like holy hell, he was just hammered on it and four wheel drive and somehow just popped out of there and somehow he had to get back. That's what I was gonna say. So wait, so, so the way I envisioned this right, tell me if I'm wrong. You have the thinner ice on the shallower edge of the lake, and you guys knew that if you could just get kind of over that obstacle, the ice out in the middle was probably okay, right, Yeah, the ice out in the middle was pretty good. Right, But then that was my question. It's like, well, great, he gunned and got out, now he's got to come back. Yeah. And so like with the entrance to this lake, it's pretty small. So like what he broke through was more than half of the path that you're supposed to drive on. And so we're sitting there like on the edge here is like a bunch of like brush and and I don't like cat tails and stuff, and I'm like, there's no freaking way he's getting back, Like I don't know he's getting how he's getting his vehicle out of there. But then he just went out, turned around and he just gunned it and shot through just these piles of just brush and stuff and somehow got got his vehicle through there. So he so he didn't come like through the path you're supposed to. He just went like totally into the woods. Oh yeah, he was basically like off roading. But thank god he's got a So thank god he had that. And well man, that that never would have happened with our partners, Chevy Silverado. You could edit that out. No, no, no, no, no, no, it's all good man. So well, here's a question though, So, so he popped out, he got through, Did you guys go out and fish and then worry about getting back later or was it sketchy enough where you were like it was it was sketchy enough. Well, the dumb thing was we were waiting for buddies that had a four wheeler and I was like, I think we could probably make it, and he does that, and then after like he broke through, he's like, now we're getting off, and then we went out fishing after that, so got okay. So basically that was completely unnecessary to even risk it, right, Oh, yeah, completely unnecessary. Here's my wor here's my question is how far away was the spot that you were intending to fish? Oh? Probably about a mile? The things that we will do in order not to walk a mile. Yeah, oh I know, I know, man, it's ridiculous. Well, yeah, that all turned out well though, that's what matters. Yes, yes, but it was it was scary, man, not gonna lie, It was a scary one. Have you ever seen a truck go go completely through while you've been out there? I haven't seen a truck go through, but like when I've been driving out on the ice, I've seen like trucks in in the water like that that had gone through. I always think about that. I mean, having it happen is one thing. Hopefully everybody comes out of that safely, But then there's sort of the like what's the protocol on the aftermath? And the only thing I can I can I can relate it to is driving on sand out here. Right. I've buried a couple of trucks because I got too close to the water's edge and you get that real sugary sand if you hit it too hard, you know, bog the back end down. Yeah, and man, it cost me a lot of money to get the right tow truck out there before get my truck out. So you see these pictures all the time of these trucks that went through. But like then what you know what I mean, I have heard that like the fines on that are ridiculous, exactly ridiculous because it's your choice to drive out onto this lake. Yes, if you go through, you got to figure it out, and you're getting fines for polluting the lake and right stuff. Yeah, I h The only experience that I have with this is uh, my buddy Chester and uh Chester Chester and myself, like there were two chesters of me and we were out hunting a farm in South Dakota and the uh, the farmer's daughter as it were. Apparently she took her truck through some spring ice and like got like okay, but if I remember right, you know, the story ended up with I think like ten thousand dollars or or something something like that between like fines and calling the record because the guy wanted to just use some of his farm equipment and pull the truck out. But I think apparently they make you use a specific service or like you know, some folks are pre qualified to do that sort of thing. Yeah, I'm pretty sure, like once once your cargoes through and everything I think said and done, I'm pretty sure it's over ten dollars you've gotta pay something like that. Well that's why you gotta check the thickness of the ice. Yeah, glad that one turned out, okay, Ben, it was cool having you here, man. I also want to just mentioned the people that when we first signed on here, I noticed a bush light apple can behind you, sir. That is that stuff not fantastic, dude, It is just fantastic. I absolutely love it, like especially in the summers when it's actually nice out in Minnesota. Is that like your one can you're hanging on too for later because like by the case and then you can't find it anywhere. Bush Light Apple regular bush light not so much anyway, great beer choice, great story. Look for Ben on Instagram. It's Ben Outdoors, USA, right, yes, sir, Instagram. And um, next time you, you know, put a four wheel or a truck through the ice or something, we'll link back up and get that story too. That sounds good to me. Cropp ease through the ice, now, see if we'd get solid local ice. I have two spots where I could bang on some crop ease and hardly anyone uh fishes for them there and open water let alone if it ice is up. And the last time I was able to get out and drill directly over a few of the submerged trees that I know were in these ponds. Dude, like you find out very quickly there are many more big cropp ease in there than you realized. Just casting from the bank. That's that's fun stuff. Yeah. I don't know if you remember this, Joe, but the first time It was about a year ago, the first time we ever tried to link up to do any sort of fishing in our long and storied history of misconnections. Uh. We we were going to go to a crappy pond that I knew of. It happened to be like like a croppy pond my buddy Molly Curran and her family own, and man, there are some slab croppy in there. I have much more experience catching bigger cropp ease in like small ponds than I big legs, like I've done it down south and stuff like that. But around here it can be this like puddle ditch and they'll be giant crop eas in it. Yeah. Well and then again, I mean, like I tried, I wanted to take you this year that I know, I know, Well, that was one of the things we discussed during here your COVID laced Christmas visit. Um doing a little ice fishing for croppies. Of course, Um they're now going back. There was zero ice out here at Christmas, so completely impossible. Which also Christmas feels like it was five months ago already. Yeah maybe you feel that way, I don't know, but you know, it feels very recent. Me losing to you in fish News last week. It still stings, and I find it unacceptable. So let's remedy that right now. Fish. That escalated quickly, if I'm a quick follow up to last week's bent helpline question, which was in a nutshell, can your kid that doesn't need a license keep up limit of fish? Um? And I I had said not that I was aware of, at least locally, but I did also say that's something that may vary state by state. UM, so maybe you should check that out in your state. And we got a bunch of notes about it that we're just sort of people weighing in on how it works where they live. UM, and I was correct, and that it does vary. It's admittedly not something that I ever really worried about, because growing up you didn't need a license to fish saltwater here at all. You still really don't in Jersey. Uh. And both as a kid and now with my own kids, nobody was ever overly concerned about keeping limits of anything except maybe trout. So I apologize for not naming everyone specifically, but to give you guys some examples. UM, we had two listeners from Wyoming reach Out and they said out there, resident kids can keep a limit, but if you come in with your kid from out of state, only the licensed angler within the state can keep a limit, which makes sense. So that was interesting. Yeah, it does make sense. Now, we had another listener from Quebec right in and tell us the way it works there is that kids don't need a license until they're twelve, I believe, But you can only keep the limit of the license holder. Yeah, so see, I didn't know that we're learning together. Then someone else wrote in and said they actually posed this question to a West Virginia d n R officer after the show, and he said, in West Virginia, resident kids are allowed to keep their limit if they are actively fishing, right, So, like we mentioned in last week's episode, if your kids in the woods are flipping rocks or climbing a tree, he or she is not really fishing. Now, granted, that would be a very hard thing to prove, right unless an officer and authority was like observing, you know, with binos for a while or whatever. But still that's the rule in West Virginia. I would bet that's the rule in other states as well, probably, But I think the most interesting note came in from listener Garrett Guthrie, who wrote, I completely agree with you two's verdict about a kid's limit, but I cringed at the thought of their seventy five gills in the same cooler representing three limits. In my state, Illinois, limits need to be separated by a physical means. In Evans case, Evan is the guy who submitted the question. He is one dent in the right keeping seventy five gills, but he's flirting with disaster keeping them all together. And you know, John, until Garrett brought this up, I'd never even considered it, you know, And I'm going to openly admit that I hadn't either. And and this may be a state by state deal to you know what. You know, what's interesting like and it's got to be like a fish specific thing because you think about any Instagram post you've seen of like a duck outfitter. Do you ever see those limits separated or is it in one big Yeah? I mean I could take that. I can also point to the kill shots at Marina's where there's thirty five fish hang it on a board nailed up with the charter. Yeah. Yeah, But I what I do think I'm actually glad that Garrett brought this up. I think it's a good example of a rule that many of us may not be aware of that theoretically could lead you to trouble if if you're unaware of it. Um, you know again, like thinking back, I had my trout stringer and my dad had had his when I was growing up. But when we got back to the car, they all went in the same cooler. Man, you know what I mean? Like you never thought anything of that. You know, I do a ton of saltwater fishing. It all goes in the same fish box while you're out there and you figure it out later. Um. Now, I've never heard of anyone getting pinched for that locally. But it it doesn't mean it's not the rule, right, So I'm gonna look into that because now I'm curious. But you know, if I took my son crappie fishing, say, and we legit each caught a limit, I would have put them in the same cooler, especially if we were on a boat, right, Because have you ever been on a boat where you know, each guy brings his own cooler for this purpose to separate limits. I've never seen. That doesn't mean it's not the rule, but I've never seen that, so I was interested by Garrett Snow. Yeah, when when I was growing up, you know, trout fishing, my dad and I also each had our separate stringer. I think that was mostly just so my dad could flex on me when we were walking out or yeah. Man, yeah, the chain stringers so it jangled when you lifted him out of the water. Everybody knew how many were on there. It took at least four to make it rattle, you know. Yeah. Well anyway, hey, Garrett, thank you for making us more aware of this. Also, here's where we make you aware that this is a competition. Joe and I do not know like that. Yes, Joe and I do not know which news story the other guy grabbed. And at the end of all this, our audio engineer, the wonderful, the beloved, the butter but whimsical, admirable Phil Taylor, will reach his limit of bullshit regarding one story and declare the other guy the winner. Joe, it is your lead. It is so. I was already pretty convinced right that Google and my phone we're listening. But now I know, right, big brother had to have been listening to our chat with Ben about about his boy's truck that nearly ended up going through the ice. Because this story popped up and it actually answers questions we had hinted at in this week's smooth Moves. So how wonderful. And this comes from Madison dot com and it's a profile piece of Mr Don Herman. Now, Herman is a lifelong member of the Otter Street Fishing Club up on Lake Winnebago. Now I don't I don't think I need to explain that the Winnebago is a major ice fishing destination, right and while there are plenty of anglers out there chasing perch and walleye already, um, you know, when when sturgeon season opens up in February, they've got some big tournaments coming up, traffic is only going to increase. But as I understand it, thus far this season, the the ice on Winnebago has been a bit jankie. So according to this story, you need sixteen inches to safely drive a car or truck out. And at the time the story was written, which was only a few days ago last week, late last week, Herman was finding thirteen inches in one spot and as little as eight relatively close by. And what he is is he's kind of a hired gun, sort of voluntary hired gun ice safety officer. And what he does is he drives around in his a TV and monitors and when necessary, uh, installs metal bridges over expansion cracks and stuff. Yeah, And he'll move these these structures and bridges as necessary, and he even uses old Christmas trees to mark them to sort of create like a sort of a buoy system kind of like boats would find on the Intracoastal Waterway, which is is very cool and useful because so many people fish there. Uh. In fact, in the story, year old angler Jason Math was quoted on the day the news team was there to hang out with Herman, and he very much appreciates his services because, as he put it, the ice is rough. This crack, which was the one Herman was was bridging during the story, said it opened from two inches last night to about a foot today. Right, Yeah, so pretty pretty cool service. Now, as as I understand it, um Herman's ice safety work, he's all voluntary, but he also has a side gig geared toward folks that don't take ice safety as seriously. This is directly from the story. His business, which is called sunk question Mark Dive and Ice Service, retrieves cars, trucks, snowmobiles, and ice shacks that have plunged through the ice and into the depths of a lake or river. In warmer months, he has pulled out sunken boats, cars that have slid down boat ramps, and crashed planes and helicopters. He's waiting to remove a tractor from thirty ft of water in Lake Lucerne near Watoma, and we'll use a tow truck that weighs about four thousand pounds, significantly less than most. Herman typically does about twenty jobs each winter within a two hour radius of Oshkosh, although one year he pulled more than seventy vehicles out of the drinks of Wisconsin. In another year, he pulled a car out of a hundred and twenty five ft of water and green Lake. Now, how much do you think Herman charges per hour for this service? This is the tie back to Ben's story. I remember it being what I thought of is astronomically expensive. Um, the whole ordeal would cost you just a ship ton of money. Okay, So I do not know take Okay, so we said it was like ten thousand dollars we thought to get one out after fines. I have no idea how much of those fines were. I imagine it's pretty expensive. Let's say five hundred bucks an hour, one thousand dollars an hour, and that's not including any fines or anything else that that you rack up because of of your your your little mishap there with your truck or car snowmobile going through Herman gets one thousand dollars an hour and says a job can take three or to four hours or more depending on the circumstances. Good insurance may or may not cover the expense, right, no kidding, It all depends on the policy. Now, dude, I mean a thousand bucks an hour, I am in the wrong business. That's like, that's like baring sea crabbing rates right there. Um, But you know, yeah, but we we talked with Ben about the fines and the salvage for losing the truck through the ice. There you go, right, So it'll cost you and and no doubt people will pay because as I mentioned, we were talking to Ben, I talked about getting my truck stuck in the sand one time, and I was like twenty four years old, scared shitless because the tide was coming in. That dude came out in his record and was like, hey man, three under bucks to pull you fifteen feet and you're so like, oh, I'm like yeah, three hundred bucks. Fine, just please, just please God get me out of here right now. So, like, those are great businesses, uh, to be in. I'm also certain some of you listening in Wisconsin no of Don Herman because his nickname is Hollywood Herman. He has apparently done well posting videos of his recoveries on Facebook, in which he simultaneously gives ice condition updates. So like, imagine you're the sucker he's like all the way in. Not good. He's just winching your ship out of the lake and he's like, oh we got eighteen inches. Uh yeah, that's funny. I like that. He also apparently frequently appears um in local news reports. He also owns two bars, The Fountain and Blazers, both of which I'm sure it could be featured and that's my bar. So he sounds like a good guy to know, especially if you're worried about losing your your shanty or your snowmobile. Because like then maybe you get like the family and friends discount, you know, maybe maybe then it is only five hundred bucks an hour. Who knows. Yeah, yeah, gee whiz man. I don't know if I ever told you this, but when I first moved out to Montana, my buddy chet Riddle and I we were like looking to uh, we were looking to go shoot our rifles somewhere to site him in. And it was the springtime, and I'd heard it called mud season, but I didn't really understand what that meant until we were about five. I was up a back road in his uh, in his truck, and the mud is getting superior and superier, and he's kind of like doing that thing where he's like whipping the steering wheel back and forth, and both of us are like, yeah, we're in control. Next thing, you know, we're like on the side of the road and we have two wheels dipped into this crack that must have been six ft deep where water. Had just remember seeing pictures of this, he posted, Yeah, yeah. I just remember him down low beneath me, me up high in like those in the in the passenger seat, and just looking down at him and him going, we're we are so it's funny. It was about six to get his car out. Though it was like that. It's funny because the sand gig was actually not the worst that ever was. I did something very similar ironically while hunting in Jersey. Shout out to Collier's Mills if anybody knows where that is in Jersey, the hunting the hunting grounds there, um and it's saith. I can't tell the whole story because it's way too long and and and it'll just take up too much time. But it was in the days of brick ericson Zack Morris cell phones. I had like one dot or bar or whatever they had. The story involves my mom and then the tow truck getting stuck trying to get me. It's crazy ship. We don't have time for that. But it's a terrible feeling. It's a terrible feeling when you know, like there's nothing. When I got stuck on the beach, you know, ten different guys tried to get me out, just like popping me forward with their trucks wasn't happening. And you hit that point where you're like, this is a bad deal and either I'm losing my truck or I'm paying dearly for this, you know. Yeah. Yeah, And to that end, I'm actually thinking about getting a winch for my truck. But man, they just look so I think it's cooler than a than a rod vault. If that helps you out, well, please enter your password. You have one unheard message which I got got about two gowns of Primo brown shout Eggs sale. You know where to find me. End of message, Delete press seven, save deleted. Alright, Joe, So for fish news this week. Uh, this story comes from USA Today. As if it didn't already have enough going for it, Florida is once again the shark bite capital of the world. That's right, folks from Unchecked, Black Bears, two dudes on bath salts, and once again sharks. The most challenging thing about visiting Florida is avoiding not getting bit by something. Is it really Florida? Florida's like overtaken Australian junk. Yeah. While there was a dip due to pandemic shutdowns and marine recreation opportunities in sharks had a banner year in Florida had the most attacks not only in the US but worldwide. Mm. Now, Joe, I'm sure you've noticed. I've given you no real nitty gritty facts, just general statements, so it's like every other news we've done. Thank you. I have a surprise for you, Joe. We're going to unpack the nitty gritty together in this very special edition of Fish News. It's time for Hayden's Jaws Pop Quiz Retribution, Shark and Shark Attack Trivia Challenge Quiz Show. Hayden's Jaws Pop Quiz Retribution, Shark and Shark Attack Trivia Challenge quiz show, otherwise known as an easy way out of having to do real research about something. Okay, I'll play your game. I'll play. That's not all night. I did real research and in fact, I formulated a game show around it. So you tell me what is the easy way out? Joe? Okay, come all right, I shall do my best. I'm not I'm not fully sure what this quiz is yet or what this is about, but I just I just I just told you what the quiz was. Man. It's Hayden's Jaws Pop Quiz Retribution, Shark and Shark Attack Trivia Challenge Quiz Show. Hayden's Jaws Pop Quiz Retribution, Shark and Shark Attack Trivia Challenge quiz shows you keep relling, Okay. I feel like that very clearly lines it out if not being a bit verbose. All right, yeah, come on, yeah, So Joe, you keep score of the you know what, I'll keep scoring board. Yeah, alright. So Question one, according to the International Shark Attack File, approximately, how many known species of sharks are there? Is it A one, B two hundred, C five hundred, or D eight hundred D eight hundred That is incorrect? The answer was C five hundred. There are five hundred and thirty eight known species of sharks. Okay, but that's fine, Huh. I personally know three hundred more that have yet to be discovered by science. I didn't. Yeah, no, you don't, okay, So moving on. Uh. Of those five hundred and thirty eight species, how many have been confirmed to have bitten a human unprovoked ten or more times? Is the answer A thirteen, B C or D one hundred and twenty three that is correct? The answer is A thirteen. Those species are the lemon shark, blue shark, black shark. We'll get there. These are descending order, by the way, black tip brief, oceanic, white tip, bronze whaler, spinner, hammerhead, wabigoon, sand tiger, black tip, bull tiger, and white. Because when I researched something similar for the Conway Bowman quiz, I think I think you missed mako. Nope, not a ton of more times unprovoked. Okay, all right, give you a check there, all right, all right? How many attacks were reported in Florida in is it go ahead? Is it a B fifty? See a dight one or D three million? Just in one calendar year. See. The problem with this is, like, I don't care what you think. The problem with somebody gets like nipped by a freaking bonnet head while they're in the waiting pool at the resort, Like that counts fifty b H. The answer is a. Again, there were twenty eight confirmed attacks in Florida, accounting for over half of the unprovoked shark attacks in US waters and more than a third of unprovoked shark attacks worldwide. Okay, there's a pattern here. I'm always fifty percent right because so far it's always been the lowest two. It's one of the lowest two, and I'm just I'm just going from there. I don't think you understand what right means well, in my head, that's how I have worked it out, and that's what I'm telling myself and in everybody else's head. You are still wrong. Next question, what activity were most people doing when an unprovoked attack occurred? A windsurfing? Here, the that is not it's not even an option. A snorkeling be surfing, see swimming in low light conditions or d free diving see swimming in low light conditions. Wrong again, Joe, The answer is be surfing. Apparently, flailing around on a surfboard draws the attention of water dwelling apex predators and of shark attack victims were doing just that when they were bit. So half the people that were bit in Florida last year, we're all on a surfboard. Um, I'm not sure it breaks down like that. You know, Florida could be outside of the average. Um, but presumably if you're gonna apply that statistic and broad strokes. Okay, alright, fascinating. Um, you know here's something else that's like interesting and on like that same kind of tip. I keep using the term unprovoked attacks, and the the differentiator obviously is like if you're feeding sharks or like harass them while you're diving or um unhooking a shark like those things are not listed in there. And interestingly, a an example of a provoked attack would also be spear fishing is considered a provoked attack. Yeah, I thought that was interesting. Anyhow, next question you're gonna get wrong, and they're like questions, No, no, we're coming to the end. You probably got this one right. What type of shark was implicated in the greatest number of attacks all time? Is it a the bull shark, b tiger shark, see black tip shark or d white shark the greatest number of attacks of all time in all history in the parameters of this research. Yeah, God, once again, it's like a bite or an attack, like a massive attack, Like a bull shark doesn't tend to nip you like it. You know, it grabs your leg and goes to town like freaking the cousin Eddie's dog. I'm just going through the mental process here. I keep saying attack, but like it's listed as bite black tip. That is wrong, Joe, If you had paid attention to my sloppy quiz writing, I noted that the sharks that I was listing previously in like the thirteen um sharks that had bit folks ten or more times. I noted that that was in a sending order, the last of which was the white sharks. So the answer was d white sharks are responsible for three hundred and fifty four confirmed unprovoked attacks, fifty seven of which were fatal. You're doing horribly, Yeah, but like, dude, how could you said that there were There's been so many quote attacks in Florida just over the last few years, none of them were white sharks, So how can that be right? I think that that's why um Florida becoming the the shark attack capital of the world is a good news story. I do not believe that great whites have unprovoking lee attacked more people than bull sharks and little black tips and things like that. Well, you're gonna have to take that up with the International Shark Attack File and you can find them, I think at Florida State. I will send them an email, or it might be Atlantic Florida University. It's it's one of those schools down in Florida. Okay, So last question, Joe, last question, and this is not a multiple choice, what was the name of the original animatronic shark in the movie Jaws. Bruce. Bruce is correct, Joe, you were two for six, which means you have a thirty three quiz. Shitty quiz I gave you. That's about one specific film you had to watch. I'm not an expert on sharks. Stats. You say you like sharks all the time. Man, I love sharks are apparently only statistics. I don't like maths. Well, Joe, uh, you know, statistics don't seem to like you either. This place has been extremely awkward. And speaking of awkward, we got an awkward photo submission that might look familiar to a few of you. If you like me, gravitate to website and social media accounts full of stupid, useless shit. Phil, you learn nothing. Well, that's not true. Despite your somewhat concerning performance during the shark quiz, Joseph Mellie, you still win this week. I'm thinking in order to create some healthy competition over there in Wisconsin, I'll actually be starting my own ice recovery service as well, except I'll just charge a thousand dollars an hour to pull drunk freshman out of snow drifts and toilet bowls and Madison and please start referring to me as Hollywood fill from now on. Thank you, when did you take a picture the lab? We have not had an awkward moment in a minute. And uh, we have to thank longtime listener David Burgess for this one. It's transcendent in a way because he tells us it was. It was featured back in the day on this site, Awkward Family Photos. Now, obviously I'm a fan of that site, and Awkward Moments in Angling was modeled after it, But Awkward Family Photos is pretty o g Like that ship has been around since two thousand nine, long before all these similar Insta and and Facebook pages popped up. Like I'm a big fan of of weird ship at the thrift Store, but Awkward Family Photos it was kind of well ahead of its time, you know. Yeah. What's crazier though, is that all these years later, the person with the photo, and more importantly, the person who can give us permission to use the photo, is in fact a bent listener. What are the odds they're slim? There's slim, Hayden. But I'm glad it happened because what we've got right, it's a grip and grin of David's Uncle Pete. Now this is retro, right, this was taken in and to dive right into it. Here Uncle Pete stands in front of some classic eighties wood paneling, probably seventies wood paneling. It's probably been around even longer, which I have been really like. I'm a big fan, which is why I haven't taken down the same paneling that I It's the same paneling behind Uncle Pete in my finished basement. It's it's like pe green though it's terrific um and minimal water damage. So I've just left it because I think it's pretty cool. Anyhow. Uncle Pete, right, he's trim, he's a good looking feller. He's totally rocking a vintage porn mustache like Allah John Holmes, and I don't know, he might have had away with ladies because his outfit. To me, it's like straight out of urban cowboy. I could almost see you wearing this outfit now for like a night on the town in Montana. I could picture it in my mind, so could I. Man. Uncle Pete is wearing a To describe it fully, Uncle Pete is wearing a crisp blood red button down cowboy shirt with sharp contrasting black buttons, and that's tucked into some tight black jeans. And while the belt buckle was obscured, I wanted I can. I can only make out like a little bit of its design, but it's epic. Yeah. So it's it's very hard to describe, but it's got that Native American like woven blanket look worked into like geometrical shapes like I've seen that design. I've seen this before. It's like I can't really place them, yeah, exactly. It's just very Southwestern, shall we say, And it's it's super cool anyway. In Uncle Pete's left hand right is a large rainbow trout and he's dangling it horizontally by the gills. And it is long dead, like it is long dead. It's it's it's I is pure white, um, and the fish is very blotchy, like you know how the color sorts to it'll it'll fade in some spots but not in others. When a fish has just been laying on its side in the cooler for a good long while. Um, that's where this trout clearly has been. Okay, yeah, now in in stunning relief, uh, in uncle Pete's right arm is a very healthy, very much alive baby girl. Uncle Pete is supporting her around the middle, uh, under the arms, like like as if you were carrying in a bag of flower and uh, that's that's a that's a that's an approved hold. By the way, just grab him, you'll see. And she looks like surprised, you know. Shot overall between the outfit, the steeds of Uncle Pete and like the dead trout and the stunned baby, there's a lot going on here. But clearly this is a kind of like a size comparison, you know, the troud he's almost exactly the same length as the child. Yes, it's a yeah, And I'm gonna say the baby's you know, a few months old, maybe as I don't know, four or five months old, maybe six, I don't know. So it's if that tells you anything, if you can picture a baby, this is a large trout. It is the same length. Um, and I just I had to laugh because, like, you know, mom is off to the side. You go and don't let that fish touch that baby, Like that's what my wife would have been saying, you know, um, but I don't know, man, Like this is an album cover. If I've ever seen one. This could this could easily you know, be to swap in for the Bent playlist. Um, but before we tell you some specifics that we do know about this shot, I want some rapid fire Hayden roast. This is the thing you started last awkward where where you're just like you were very good at these. We'll even up the antie Phil throw ten seconds on the clock. We'll do it. We'll do it like that, all right, Are you ready? Rapid fire roast? Okay? Yeah. And before we get going here, I just want to say this is not necessarily something that brings me joy. This is just part of my job description. And I apologize, full full shit. Yes, it's on the clock, Yes, and begin. Dude looks like a Tinder profile picture from the mid eighties. Dude looks like Burt Reynolds Trout and baby dealer. Dude, it looks like neither of these things he's holding belonged to him. Dudes look like he's part of some baby in Trout smuggling breaking bad prequel. Dude looks like he's involved in some sort of fish baby hostage situation. Dude looks like Joe Dirt caused playing a Southwestern Tiger Woods. Dude looks like the spirit that visits bachelor's when they're thinking about settling down. That is the best one, right there was that all of them, that's all of them. That was the best one. I was gonna give it to Burt Reynolds Baby and Trout Dealer, but the last one, Bravo, well done, well done. I love this. I love this new element of awkward moments anyway. So look, here's here's the clincher. Uh. David told us he couldn't get much info on the catch, but the baby in question is his cousin Amy, and Amy says there's also a photo from the same photo shoot where Uncle Pete just laid the fish next to her on a flat surface and put a yard stick between, so the size comparison theory is correct. Um and David says. Amy didn't remember anything about how the fish was caught or where, but she knew her dad was pretty damn proud of it. So proud. She said that that dad took a whole bunch of photos of her with this fish in many different poses in scenarios, all of which ended up in her official baby album. Uh. And that my friends that is how you do it. That was fun, David, thank you for sending that along. Uh, new parents, but yeah, yeah, it's it's all Yeah man, new Parents, pose your inference with dead fish and send those shots to Bent at the meatiator dot com. Best of luck making them more awkward than this shot. But you know, we've been known to be surprised. So thanks to David for sending that. And I think Joe, I think we ought to give him a slightly bigger shout out me too. Agreed. Yes, some of you may have seen his artwork if you file the Degenerate Angler or Bent podcast hashtags or the Mediator hashtag for that matter, because he's devoted like a lot of his life. Uh it seems to drawing characters slash pop art of every single person involved with Meat Eater. Yeah he has. I'm not sure if if if if David's like looking for a gig or a merge deal or what, But I mean he has. I can't, I can't even name him all. He's drawn me as the Misfits skull. He's drawn you and I fishing together while Phil looks on from a tuggy sandbox. Uh, he's drawn his interpretation of Lance v, Bob the garbage Man, Steve Yanny Cow all those guys. The list just goes on and on um. But his attention to detail is incredible, you know, Yeah, it's wild. I noticed that in that picture that he posted of us, like on like the in the canoe or whatever. Yeah, he has gone so far as to draw the headphones that we use in the studio, like the actual ones. I don't even know how he knows we're using those headphones. He named the tuggy the pt Cruiser. You know, detail, I think I think David is actually Steve Ronella in like a bank right right. Yeah. Anyway, speaking of attention to detail, we we've got a question here in the bent helpline regarding a detail of your tackle storage. Many of you might not even consider, what do you laughing at? Martini? You're not an idiot, You're not a gambloony hell are? You're a fisherman? Best, what's your emergency? So our question this week comes via email from Ted Pelleck. I think that's how you say it, pe l e h uh. He says he's a long time listener, first time emailer. So lucky you, Ted, because your question your question made it man. Now, this is a question, right that I have heard, uh been. It's been kicked around a lot, right, There's been articles written about it, and I'm really not sure there's a definitive answer. So I think the best we can do is sort of weigh in and give our opinion and maybe a few tips. But but here's what Ted writes. He says, I have a few different bulk spools of name brand line that I've had above the work bench since sometime during the Bush Cheney administration. The economical in parentheses cheap side of me says, the line quote seems fine, and I should continue respooling my reels from those spools each year, just as I have been. The spooky side of me says, to throw that ship away and my freshly minted line so I don't end up in a self inflicted blind fit of homicidal rage because I snapped off a great fish or birds nested three reels in just one hour of fishing. All that was to tee up My question is how old is too old for line? Well, there is not a quick answer to that, because what is step one? What must be figured out first? Well, the first thing is addressing the birds nesting man like that can be well, I mean, I I want to get that out of the way, because that's like an easy solution. Um, without knowing the pound test, and I assume, like you're talking about something for like bass or like whatever, you know, I'm going to assume we're working with like ten pound tests. Do you think that's like a fair assumption. Sure, we'll call it ten pound tests. Um, you could stretch that line out as you're spooling it, and it probably won't bird's nest. And I'll tell you what, if it's gonna break, you'll find out real quick doing that. So well, that's true. Line stretching is a whole other other issue, and it's important and a lot of guys don't do it. But we'll we'll save that for later. When I was gonna say, the most important thing to figure out right off the bat is what kind of line are we talking about? Because that answer is going to be different for monofilament, flora carbon, or braided line. Right, Um, so you know how old is too old? All of that depends on environment. Right, So with flora carbon and h monofilament, nothing will degrade those faster than than UV light. So if you've ever read anything about this, right, like that is like the number one thing that will degrade those materials. Yeah, I mean, I know that's true for monofilament. I don't think that's true for floral carbon. I think it's less so for floral carbon, but still because because UV light can penetrate through both of them. As I understand it, I've always been told, yes, mono will degrade the quickest, right, Uh, flora carbon less So, but I mean the fact that these are stored above a workbench already, you know. I think I think if you if you have a bulk spool line that's been sitting out on deck all summer or for repeated summer, but most people aren't doing that. It's in a garage or a basement or something like that, right. Um Temperature also factors into it, though less, so I keep all my line out in my garage, right and it's never call it super extreme out there, but over time, over years and years, if you're going from nineties in the summer to ten degrees in the winter, you know for years on end that that that does matter. I think I can shortcut this a lot by saying that I'm pretty religious with changing any mono or flor Oh. The only the only bulk spools I have are stuff that I'd used to fill offshore reels, and I bury them away in like the darkest corner of the garage, no light penetration, you know what I mean? Yeah, Yeah, My answer is like pretty simple. Man, If it's floral, it's fine. If it's mono, I would replace it, unless it's like twenty pound mono or something like that, in which case I wonder how much damage it's like received from being in a garage. The other thing to consider again is like UV light exposure. If there's no light by your work bench, I'm not sure how worried I would be, but I don't think I would chance it. Yeah, no, I And that's the bottom line. I mean. It also depends on on on what you're fishing for. I mean, if you're messing around with channel cats or something and it's like kind of low drag and you've got some old mono kicking around, I mean, really, you spend enough time with with this stuff, you can almost feel when mono is past its prime, it will have more memory, it will coil up and Mono these days is so cheap compared to modern flora and braid like it's it's it's dirt cheap, you know. Yeah, sorry, I don't mean to cut you off, but to like kind of wrap up my shirt on it. Yea. Um. The time when I find this to be like most pertinent is actually in my h is in my tippet spools when I'm fly fishing. Um, you know, I carry Mono and Flora tipping the flooras for nymph in the monos for you know, dry fly fishing. You kind of want everything to hang out on the surface. Um. I replace my Mono tippets spools from seven X to three X every year probably, Yeah, I replace my tip it to my three X every two or three years, just because it doesn't degrade nearly as fast. Um. So that that's again I guess indicative of my feelings on if it's lighter and Mono replace it often, heavier and Mono replace it less often. Twenty years like bush chain administration, that's a lot of times. That's a lot of time. I I would I would ditch it just because that's an extreme amount of time. But I mean I even keep some spools in my garage that are maybe I don't know, eight years old bulk spools. Am I gonna fill a reel with with eight year old mono? No? But for me, it comes in handy, like I'll use it to throw a few wraps on a reel to back my new braid, you know what I mean. So I don't necessarily toss it. But am I gonna put it out front front and enter at the top end of a real you know? No, probably not braid. People are gonna cringe at this. I've had reels that have had the same braid on it for five years. I'll reverse it, you know what I mean, flip it around. Um, But I don't know. I'm not a tournament angler. It's sort of like you pick your battles. I care more about the braid on my saltwater outfits on a tuna jigging rod rod. Yeah, it's I mean, it's partially crows and also partially just the size of the fish you're catching. I don't want my braid to break when I'm fighting a yellow fin, you know. Um, for stuff that I'm flicking, you know, for small mouth here in the river, I'm slightly less concerned about having older braid on there. So I think you know, when in doubt, man, just go out and and buy some new stuff, especially if it's motto. Not only is Mono cheap, I also think that new Mono is even slightly better than old Mono and it's still inexpensive. So twenty years that that's that's a long time, no matter why what kind of line it is, that's a long time. Mhm. Final thought. If you want to be really crazy about this, I have known some offshore captains who are buying these spools that are are hundreds and hundreds of dollars, that will store them in a chest freezer, no light, constant cold temperature, and uh there you go. So you know, hey, go buy some expensive line, throw it in the chest freezer with the tater tots and it will last even longer. Anyhow, great question, Ted, Thank you so much for sending it in, And if you have a question of a similar ilk feel free to send it to Bent at the meat eater dot com. Or alternatively, I mean, you could send in a voice memo with your question and maybe we'll answer it right here on the bent helpline. So that's it for this week. Remember if you're not sure how thick the ice is, take the key of soul, not the silverado uh and if nothing else, the soul is much cheaper to place. If you do end up on the ice in your keya, please take a photo and tag it Degenerate Angler and or Bent podcast on the Instagram. We'd appreciate that. Please do also keep those helpline questions, bar nominations, awkward photos, and sale bin items coming to Bent at the mediator dot com. We can't do what we do without you, No, we cannot. We also can't ice fish with you guys if you don't send us the exact GPS coordinates of where you're catching all your fish, So go ahead and upload them to our new app called this spots now TI