00:00:06 Speaker 1: I think at this point, having hung out with you for a while, that I could do word associations and be like desk lamp, and you'd be like Steelhead, Honda Accord, Steelhead. Everything reminds you of Steelhead. I wouldn't feel quite comfortable like Steelhead. Fishing somewhere where there isn't graffiti. I'm your bridges and stuff are shopping cards in the river. I'm Joe sur Melly. I caught a snakehead. It was ten pounds. Why doesn't everybody like snakeheads? It's like toys for tots, only it's scrap led for Bob the garbage man and maybe Kenny the Benny if he gets out of the rehabs to him. Good morning to generate anglers and welcome to Ben the fishing podcast that believes that Thanksgiving is just deployed by big Turkey Farma to offload more of their dry, disgusting godzilla birds, which anglers will eat while scoffing at farm ray salmon. I'm Joe Surmelli. I'm hating sama. Is that a turkey farming joke? It could be. I don't know. I don't know anyway, So you know, on this week's show here, we're gonna we're gonna have a little We're gonna have a little fun with some some questionable choices in waiting. Right, we're gonna talk Thanksgiving Eve, watering holes, um, and shady black Friday gear deals. But first, Hayden, what sir did you do for Thanksgiving? Well? I was hoping to head back east, as you know. In fact, you and I were talking about linking up and doing a little fishing, but I ended up just kicking around Bozeman. Yeah, i'd say you did, because you're not here, you're not working. We did a wild game friends giving out here and then went out and did some fishing. Yep, and it was a good time was had by all. There You go into anything good? Uh Nope, Nope, not at all. We we hosted, We hosted, which is fine, right, But between hosting and now, you know, I have little kids the days of some kind of like dawn patrol mission, Thanksgiving more and long over, or at least I should say they're on hiatus for a while. Um. You know, I can't just like bail and walk into a hot meal like I used to. It just doesn't work anymore. I actually I get more excited about getting outside, um the following days right after Thanksgiving, but the actual day is it's a it's a bit mellow for me, Like, you know, it's just my parents were over, which is nice, but it's not like a big extravaganza capped off like in the old days by your mom and aunts all like running to Kmart at midnight for the Black Friday sale, you know what I mean. Um, speaking of which, speaking of Black Friday, you're perpetually broke as shit, so i'd imagine you're probably gonna seize the opportunity to knock out some you know, discount Black Friday holiday shopping. Yes, maybe am broke a ship, Joe, that's I know. I had no idea Boson was going to cause him basically the same as New York City. I mean a little surprise. Yeah. Well, I mean mostly it's because I'm like terribly responsible and by all sorts of gear. But that's not really here North there. I do intend to take advantage of some Black Friday sales though these days, you know, at least per tv uh, they start in September and you never actually have to go to a store. That's true. You start hearing about Black Friday in September. Yeah, exactly exactly, which reminds me that Meat Eaters Black Friday sale just kicked off a few days ago. So if anybody listening is looking to save a little on first light year meat Eater gear f HF and so on and so forth, head on over to the meat eater dot com and check that out. Yeah, you absolutely should do that. And in other shopping news. Um, while it's it's not marked down for Black Friday, I'm afraid I am pretty pumped to announce that you can now purchase select rods and reels from our sponsors thirteen Fishing directly on the Meat Eater website, which is pretty cool. Um. And many of those selections were picked by me. Um, and there are there are a lot of the rods and reels that you've seen me used in the last two seasons of B Side Fishing. Um. Now, if you if you're crazy broke like Hayden broke, like Mega broke, right I did? I do also have a recommendation for a less reputable dealer of fishing. Weares um you're okay with buying secondhand man like you got issue with that? I don't think so, but it depends on what it is. But I mean it's yeah, okay, well what about an item that perhaps fell off one truck and ended up on another. Uh what, never mind, never mind, forget I said that. Uh anyhow, Look, we recently got a message. It's it is sketchy, isn't it. We recently got a message from our dear friend and striper chunking expert, Bob the garbage Man Britona out a newski and I assumed it would be a fishing report because it's still peaked striper season out here. Um, but I think this was actually intended for you, man, Like he specifically left me a note that said, like even you could afford this ship, and he might even be willing to extend you some further discounts. It's bad when even like Bob the garbage Man is taking pity on you. Yes, yes, it is. Anyway, getting into the holiday spirit, I figured i'd i'd pay, asked the deals and savings onto our listeners. Bob seems to be uh we'll say, he's he's quite the rush right to unload this stuff, so you guys might might want to act fast. Uh, And he's selling a bunch of well just listen, just take a listen. This is above the garbage man Bartana no a Newski, president of Bob's Discount Tackle Emporium or whatever, which is located in the rented ride of moving truck park behind Lucky Wayne's mother's row home. Anyway, he's need to buy ship for the sorry excuse for a stripe of fisherman in your life. And let me tell you everything. I got his price to move, but one day only by any NASCAR commemorative plate, get too free. Drill a hole in him, attach a big travel hook, and your mouke husband won't know. They ain't the same bunk of spoons. Every lazy sack of shit troller he idolizes on the internets is pulling around the harbor. Use heard of the tickle me Elmo? We got the tickle a momo. It's just a piece of broom handle with two google eyes super lute on it. Stick it in a glass case. Tell your boyfriend it's a limit edition plug from some Rhode Island tool shed. He'll think you spend more than the two dollars I'm asking. And everybody's happy, especially him, because he don't actually fish anyway. Well, so if you need something for the mini mooks in your life, I got a float of official Disney ball caps. They got Tom and Jerry on them as some ship. I take twenty bucks apiece just to get rid of them. Finally, remember another, says Mary Christmers. Look scrap lead undo the Hanuka bush. So if you got any, bring it down when you stop by the store. It's like toys for tots, only it's scraped lead for Bob the garbage man and maybe Kenny the Benny if he gets out of the rehab soon. For every pound we receive, I'll probably donate at least fifty of that to a near show underwater environment. So come on down and climb into our rented truck late at night. If we ain't here, come back later. But do not do not knock on the door because Wayne's mother is sick. It sleeps like twenty two hours a day. Jesus man, I actually kind of regret sharing that. Um, you know, if you if you ever to like take him up on some of those like really exciting deals there, make sure you bring a buddy and let at least a couple of people know exactly where you are and what time to call the cops if you're not back you know anyhow, Um, speaking of deals, right, I thought I thought an honor of Black Friday and uh and shopping, we could play a little game. What's that all right? Well everyone knows, right. I think you can really get some really good deals out of infomercials if you if you call like while they're playing, right, good deals scams six and one half exactly, sham wow, sham not wow. Whatever. Well, this idea came to me. So I was half asleep on the couch not long ago, trying to get over that cold I had when I sounded like assid on this show. Um, and you know when you're sick, and I passed it on the couch, Yeah yeah, yeah whatever, ZINGI zon me, zing me anyway, you know when you're just sick and you're like pass that on the couch and like you're kind of in and out of it. I passed that and like woke up and there was some infomercial on. Now in between, like drifting off to dreamland, I would just catch little snippets of them describing what they were selling. And I got to thinking, right, there are so many well known cult classic infomercials for fishing gear, like every angler knows them and and makes fun of them. Right, so would you be able? I thought to recognize them by just a quick SoundBite. I think I see where you're going with this, Yes you do. So here we go, right and honor Black Friday. I created a little game for you to play. Okay, we're gonna test your metal. I'm gonna see you up a couple of clips. Well we'll pepper something throughout the show here, and you're gonna guess is it fishing gear or exercise equipment that they're trying to sell you based just on this one clip? All right, they're all one or the other. Nice, I like it all right? Here here comes clip number one three of this random directional action. It goes out down sideways all over the place. We think, man, what's being sold there? Fishy stuff or exercise equipment. It's either like one of those like Darta round soft plastics, or it's like some sort of like core stability thing. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get I'm gonna guess that's fishing it is? And yeah, you were you were right. You got that one, My friend that right, there's the classic banjo minnow right, exactly what I thought it was. There, You go, banjo man, Try and find a good deal over Thanksgiving weekend on that one, my friend. You know what I'm saying, it could be a hard one. Well, speaking of Thanksgiving, you know what Thanksgiving always reminds me of? What is that? Steelhead? I think at this point, having hung out with you for a while, that I could do word associations and be like desk Lamp and you'd be like steel Head, be like Honda Accord, steel Head. Everything, everything reminds you of Steelhead. I actually do have a steel that story about a Honda record. Hey man, look, I should never give you ship for talking about snakeheads. Oh I'm Ji surmey. I caught a snake head. It was ten pounds. Why doesn't everybody like snakeheads? I can't help what I'm into. Okay, okay, okay, I'm just busting your chops anyway, Steelhead, what about them? Tell us something? No, you're you're You're right? I do. I do talk about steel it all the time. Also, snakeheads are coolest shit. In fact, I went back and I watched rewatched season two episode two of b side and I really want to get a snakehead now. Um, it will make it happen this year. This year it's winter two. Sorry, I don't know what year it is anymore. Yeah, either way, sucks getting old man. Anyhow, Before you derailed me, I was going to, oh so smoothly segue into your we're guest Joe Uh Steelhead Guide Pat Keim, Oh got you? Got you? Fair enough? My bad, Pat Steelhead Pat Yes in this week's edition of Smooth Moves. Why joining us today for Smooth Moves on old buddy of mine from Milwaukee, one of my favorite cities. By the way, Pat Keam of Pat keem Guide Services here, Pat how Art, thou my friend, I'm pretty good man. How are you guys? Good? We are good? And um, I'm actually glad you and Hayden our meeting because you're kindred spirits in the Great Lakes steel scene. And I gotta say this is no joke. So we fished together a few years ago, um, and I was blown away by the steelhead fishing basically in Milwaukee proper. It's like it's like urban steel. And even then it was like the fishing was kind of slow. You know, like, you know, we did great, but by your standards, it was slow. I know that. Yeah it was like four or five fish, five or six fish, but we had just the one day to do it. But like good, I mean, yeah, four or five fish these days obviously is like okay, that was a great day. But like we're still seeing like ten to like twelve fish days and then some some instances in the spring we'll see fifteen plus sometimes out of the same wall. Well what I what I thought was so cool about it being that close to downtown was you know a lot of these still had places across the Great Lakes. It's like you have these these little sort of one horse kind of towns with this bar in this restaurant and they have their own vibe going. But to be able to do that and then hang out in Milwaukee that just has so much great like food and bars and culture and other cool stuff to see and hang out, it's a very different setting. I loved it. Oh yeah, I mean I I wouldn't feel quite comfortable like steel head fishing somewhere where there isn't graffiti on your bridges or shopping carts in in the in the river. And now the new thing in the river is all the weird scooters that we have around. There's electronic ones where you can just like kind of take them on the app. Yeah, there's got to be some razor scooters I have. I know a few rivers oddly where it's like they're full of razor scooters. Yeah, I've seen razor scooters, but these are like ones you can like use an app on your phone, like kind of like Bubbler bikes, but it's it's an electric scooter and all over the rivers. It's funny, and they're called birds, so it's like it was a bird in the rivers. No way. Well it's so what's cool is when I met you, you were just like, you know, man around town like we You were just a local dude that fished. And since then you have kicked off officially your own guide service, which I think is very cool and unique, and because you know Milwaukee so well, like I think you should expand that beyond foot guiding, like you could just do like General General General Milwaukee Tours, so like Steelhead And then I'm going to show you the Bronze fond I'm gonna take you for the Bloody all with the half of chicken in it and then like you make more money that way. It's actually I mean, I'm kind of glad that you said that. So new idea. So you've only how many Remind me how long you've officially been a guide for hire. Hasn't been that many seasons? Right this this season two? Okay, so season two, this is very new. Um, and you you it's all on foot. You don't you don't do any boat guiding, so you are just taking people to all the fisheries. What how far outside the city do you go? You stay pretty close right, Um? Yeah, we really don't leave. Um, it's still considered the city. It's uh, it's a small the village of Glendale, which is still Milwaukee. Anywhere anywhere further north of that, I'm the Milwaukee River. There's not any sort of number of opportunities on fish whatsoever. It might be one, if you're lucky, you should brand these as Milwauking waiting tours Milwauking. That's good. Anyway, let's get down to it. Man, So you've only been gotten for two seasons. But we talked a little bit about this. Um, you know, great legs steel foot guiding in the city. I knew you would have something. So the floor is yours for smooth moves man hit us all right, Um, let's see. So I've been thinking this already a few times. I wanted to start by saying that these two specific customers of mine were incredible customers and great dudes to fish with and great juds to hang out with. Good start. I'm not so much roasted him, but I just because I know that they'll probably hear it, and they'll know that it's then when they hear it. But this is during chinook this year. Um, it was mid September, getting towards the end, but we had already been seeing some some chinook ground. It was still super slow, um, but we were catching fish and it was very hard because it was so hot outside and the water was so hot that these fish would only eat right at sunner eyes and they wouldn't even need it at at sundown. It was like just when they feel the water real small window. Yeah. So when when we first got there, like I wanted to get them a big fish, and they're standing there, we're like talking whatever, and I say, hey, listen, do not take your your eye off of that bobber for any reason. Don't look away from it, because if the second, the half a second that you do, it's going under and you're gonna miss it. Um. Not thirty seconds later, I'm staring over um the one guy's shoulder, and um, the other guy cracked a joke and he looks over at him to respond to that, and over his shoulder, that float just goes down and I screamed too, I'm just like bober bober, and he like almost falls over, like going to get his other hand in the rod and he it happened so fast that he didn't even get to see the bobber come back up. I did, but he it just went down right back up and that quick of a hit. Yeah. Yeah, So right after that happened the same dude. Um, he looked down at his feet to shovel up, shovel over to the next rock like boulder. Whatever happened again happened a second time, and he missed the fish. Um. He never got to see the bobber go under or come back up again. This all happened within sixty seconds, and it maybe it just didn't quite take me as seriously as he thought. You know, I'm like, dude, this is gonna because it happens to us all the time, Like we'll look away for a split second, bobbers under set the hook because you know, we were there quick enough. Or sometimes it'll it'll take the bober under while you're not looking, and it'll take it so hard it will load the rod. Yeah, yeah, that didn't happen, unfortunately, but I wish it did, but that um it did not, unfortunately. So and then we fished the rest of that day, which is day one, for another six hours. They never even got so much as another nibble. So I'm like, don't look away from the bobber ever, but they too. We hopped in the river as like, please be on time. It's the same deal. We're only going to have this window in the morning to get you know, one or two bober downs right away, maybe four or five before lucky we get in the river. They didn't look away from their bobbers this time. They got hooked up to catch a fish. Blah blah blah. Sun comes up and that whole we were in just got it, just got blanketed in sunlight. It was like out of all the holes in the stretcher of fishing, that was the first one to get it, and I was like, come on, So the in the spot that we're fishing at is um as far as waiting goes to get upstream or really like to get downstream anywhere for that matter, it's uh, you got you have to get up on the bank. And the bank is covered and broken concrete from old like you know, old ship because it's an old shipping channel. So all those old concrete shipping docks are there, but they're busted up and turned into you know, bank rip wrap and laying around couple of scooters and like I mentioned, those uh, those old concrete you know docks um up in this spot. There are still flat pieces of it that are embedded in the bank that you can stand on, you know, it's nice to level. Some of them are on an angle. So this one specific one that he's standing on is it's on a just a slight pitch and the bottom corner of it is submerged in the water. So he's standing there fishing and I look over and I see that his feet, both of his feet, he's pretty much standing like you know, feet together, and he's hanging ten right off the end of this And so I turned and I see that, and I look at him and like, hey, buddy, uh, make sure that you know where your feet are right now? And he's like looking at me and he's kind of telling a story. I was like, make sure you know where your feet are. Not not more than maybe two minutes later, I was like looking upstream at the other guys, see what he was doing. I just hear this crash and a splash. He's in. He's in. Yeah, he went down and um he didn't go like all the way in and and unfortunately it happened so fast I didn't actually get to turn my head quick enough to see it, like how like how much he fell in? But he was just like almost looking at me immediately, like for like, oh my god, how pissed Izzy? Or so you aren't watching your clients the way you wanted them to watch their floats, is what you're saying. He was watching sports clients. I was trying to watch. And that's funny you say that, because like by fish personally, I don't fish too bobbers too, because that's the exact reason why. Because one's gonna go under, you're gonna be looking at the other one. So this guy went under because I was looking at the other one. I told him, you know so, but he's like clown his way back up real quick, and and I was like, are you okay. He's like, yeah, I'm fine, I'm fine. I'm fine, I'm okay. And I was like, I just told everybody whoever falls in is always fine, because he, honestly, God had that expression on his face, so like I meant to do that. I totally meant to do that, but no, I just kind of shook my head and I was like, you know, I just don't want anybody get hurt. Safety is my first priority because I think of safety, think of bat Key. That team is number one safety guy. This is a story about a bunch of people missing, a bunch of things happening. Man. But you know what's funny myself, they're not looking, You're not looking, but nobody's looking. But you know what, though, man like you caught him fish that day, and I any any guy I've ever talked to, it's like some really bad ship can happen to your clients as long as they got their picture and they hooked up. That same guy would sue you had he not caught fish that day. He totally would have, and I had to mention that this is why I haven't. Pat's my dude, Man. I love Pat. He's like he's like the quintessential Great Lakes steel guide, you know what I mean? Yeah, that dude, And I don't mean this in like a bad way. He has that certain type of crazy all Great Lakes steelhead guys. Yes, it's a vibe that we're not going to do anything illegal or shady, but we're gonna do a couple of things that might feel that way. Yeah, dude, that's very well said. It's it's totally a thing in those fisheries, you always feel like you're about to be on the wrong end of an ass kicking, you know what I mean. Like, there's actually I almost like hate to bring it up, but there's a pretty famous video from the Salmon River a couple of seasons ago where a certain person was convinced someone else was somehow fishing on his or her property. I won't even say that the gender. Yeah, I know exactly what video you're talking about, and we should definitely stop right there because it's just brutal. It's just brutal. Um. But anyway, speaking of being on the wrong side of and ass kicking. Um, I think that's exactly where you might find yourself from this installment of fish News. But first right challenge. Ahead of the challenge, tell me, Hayden, is this clip from a fishing gear or exercise equipment infomercial? But we don't have that kind of time, so we need a device that gives us maximum payoff with minimum input. Well, they're appealing to being lazy, which uh speaks to a certain subset of Angler. But I'll tell you what. It definitely speaks to folks buying workout equipment off the off the television. So I'm gonna say that's work out two for two. Man. That's the health Rider, which I've never heard of. The health Rider. Dude, you need to look it up. Do you have a health rider tattoo? Like? Yeah? Um, yeah, dude. So in doing this, I found this randomly and it's like a country western It's like a very western dude in a very western Montana setting selling this thing. And I don't know who the target market was, but obviously didn't work out because um, we've never heard of it. So there you go. But two for two good for you? Yeah, Well you know, uh, We've actually messed this up a little. Uh. We didn't give Phil his in for fish news. Yes, we kind of threw off the rhythm there. Sorry, you are indeed right, Phil, it's time for fish news. Fish news. That escalated quickly. Hey, I bet I know what you're not doing on Black Friday, sitting down to watch the final episode of b Side Fishing season two. But that's okay, Okay, you'll you'll get to it later. I'm not mad at you, but that does, of course drop today at one pm Eastern eleven Mountain on The Meat Eater's YouTube channel. Um, and we're closing and out back in Virginia, this time on the James River. Kind of chasing a mixed bag, but the main focus is those famed James River Blue Cats, which I love a lot. I love the James I love. Yeah. And I'm joined by a friend of the show and good personal friend of me me personally, Oliver and I uh and you know, if you know anything about Oliver, big bash dreams, Um, you know, big baits for big fish kind of dude, that's what he does so well. Uh and I'll let you know he flexes that a little bit in here in a surprising way, even though this is a primarily a catfish deal. But for the most part, Oliver put down his swim bait rods and um soaked some bloody chunks and we had a smashing good time, minus some very relatable angling hiccups, which you will see, so very relatable angling hiccups. Man. Yeah, you know, if there's one thing that speaks to me, it's it's giant cats. Man. I just love the hell out of that. And you know, some people don't really get it. And I think that this particular episode of B Side shows kind of all the highs and lows of giant catfish of many things, especially because people think giant catfishing is uh, it's kind of like a Simpleton way of fishing, Like you just huck some bait out there and and there's a lot more to it than that. Um. But yeah, did I know. I know you've told me you have a thing for big cats, and that's something you haven't really done. I know you chase a lot of channels, but um, at some point down the road, man, but I gotta take you somewhere with like monsters. Yeah, I mean, you know, I have done plenty of cat fishing, and I guess what I would consider a big cat fish. I mean, right, it's all like species specific. But I've tagged with my share of like twenty plus pound channel cats. And you know, if you now, if you're like using using what I drew up using plus, that's twenty plus, that's a giant ass channel Cat's huge channel cat. And I have I have caught channel cats that I thought were legitimately in like record contention at least like the Pennsylvania state record. In fact, one time I was gonna keep and I was going to submit it for a record, and I asked my buddy. I was like, hey, man, look up real quick, what's the catfish record in Pennsylvania. And he goes, uh, I said, what's a channel cat record in Pennsylvania. He goes, oh, it's like fifty pounds or something like that. He literally looked it up on the show. It's the wrong catfish. Yeah, yeah, he looked up flatheads. Ye. I have a picture of that of fish. I'll send it to you the but yeah, man, um, I was super excited to see, uh the cat fishing And man, I think you guys just I don't know to me, that's what it's kind of all about the way you guys portrayed. Yeah, I mean, truth be told. Man like I can get just as excited about chunking monster cats as I can like chasing stripers or pike catfish don't get enough love in my opinion. Um you know, I know, so they got they got a little more love out of me and v side. Anyway, let's get to it. Grab a turkey sandwich, leftover turkey sandwich settled in and remember this is a competition. Hayden and I do not know which story the other guys bringing to the table. And at the end, our stovetop loving audio engineer Phil will judge us and Declara winner. You're laughing. Do you eat stovetop, Hayden? Or is that like you can't be sure? The sage Top Mountain Sage Phills just got to do something with all that left over white bread. Okay, there you go like that anyway, it is actually my lead this week. So here we go. Let's do some news. Shout out to Bent listener Joe it is I'm gonna butcher it. It's either Steinder Stein Winder. Is it Winder or Winder? Joe Stein winder for this one and winder sidewinder Stein Winder. Um good guy. I like him. Maybe maybe I'd have found this on my own, maybe not. But he presented it on a silver platter via the Bent email inbox, and I thank him for that because it's a dandy. Okay, Now this actually comes from Yahoo Finance headline A sport fishing boat pollutes as much as one under sixty two school buses will boat businesses survive regulation? So this is happening in California. Compelling compelling journalism. So this is happening in California, and the sport fishing boats being referred to, um, you know here are predominantly large party boat style boats and long range style fishing boats that can accommodate a bunch of anglers. Of course, this style of boat is not unique California. They exist pretty much everywhere that you find saltwater, and um, what's happening is not only affecting these fishing boats, but also the whale watching fleets of the same size, typically same kind of boats. In some places, they're fishing one day, whale watching the next. Very common. Right. So, according to the story, California air Pollution regulators have already clamped down on emissions from big rig trucks, buses, and cargo ships. They have now set their sites on the sport fishing and whale watching industry because they say they're aging boats with ag diesel powered engines are responsible for what officials say is an outsize amount of dangerous pollution that lingers over the States, marinas and bays. The California Air Resources Board is meeting to consider a measure that will require sport fishing, whale watching and other excursion boat owners to install the newest and cleanest diesel engines and potentially also a filter to resust exhaust pipe emissions. Now, before I go on here, I can attest that that wherever you find party boats and whale watching boats, the fleet is often made up of very old vessels. Right. These are fifty two on foot boats. Most were custom built at some point or or bought used by the current operators. And yeah, a lot of the party boats you you fish on were built in the seventies or eighties, maybe even earlier in some places. These were boats that were meant to last a long time. You don't kind of like get a new one every couple of seasons, right, um, and it's fair to say that that when a lot of these boats were built or per just it was a much more booming time for the party boat industry than it is now in many parts of the country. And many of these party boat businesses were started decades ago, and the operation stays within one family, which leads to the obvious issue here. This is right from the story. The boat owners are mostly mom and pop businesses that cater to blue collar anglers and families. They say that they don't have the finances, unlike other big businesses, to meet the proposed regulations, and that many may be forced to close up shop. Right. It's super interesting, man, Like this is one industry where it's half a lot of it like is lifestyle and passion. Right. You know, a lot of these folks grew up this way doing this thing. You know, their their daddies were commercial fishermen or charter captains, and like, this is what they've committed to doing. The overhead is so crazy high. Oh yeah, I'm gonna get into that because that's that's the big that's a big part of Sorry no no, no, no, no no no, but no, that's that's what no, no, no. So so here's a quote. Right, I'm terrified I'm supposed to learn a new trade now, said Jeff Jessup, forty six, part owner of three fishing boats uh and a landing in San Pedro, who has been in the business like you were just saying, since he was a teenager working as a deckhand. He says, I thought this was my future and my retirement. So I'm not gonna get super detailed on the fight happening here, but basically you have quote business experts arguing that environmental regulations have had very little to do with cutting the overall number of jobs in the economy. Instead, they say that regulations often shift jobs from one industry to another, like, as an example, away from petroleum industries towards clean energy businesses. Right, And that's all well and good, but you can't apply that to every single industry that regulations like this will affect, Right, so, it says, is purther story. In the case of mom and pop businesses such as boat operators, environmental regulations often force the industry to consolidate to a smaller number of better funded companies willing to pay for the environmental upgrades. The thing is right. This is such a small niche business already that in many instances it's very hard to envision that consolidation. Right. Um. Yeah, The story says that many of the wood and fiberglass boat in California's fleet they couldn't even accommodate the new cleaner diesel engines if they wanted to, nor the diesel filters like those boats are just they're not going to fit those engines. So how do you fix that? Right? You're only option in many cases is to upgrade to a newer metal boat that's gonna cost two to five million dollars. Right, And the representatives from the Air Resource boorder telling captains, well, if you just jack your prices by forty bucks, you'll cover it. Jack your prices forty dollars, and our math says you'll be fine. Um, you'll be able to get a new boat with cleaner engines. So the Air Resources Board Yeah, yeah, I mean, but but that's the disconnect, and I'll get into that in a second. Yeah. The Air Resources Board also estimates that in San Pedro area alone, sport fishing and whale watching boats generate one of all emissions, and say the proposed regulation is estimated to avoid and how they get these numbers so specific? I don't know, But five and thirty one premature deaths, one hundred and sixty one hospital admissions, and two hundred and thirty six hospital visits over the next decade or so. How do you figure that out? I don't know, man, I feel like there are like five one premature death it's a hundred and sixty one hospital admissions and every five minutes. I think just as a result of people going fishing. That's you probably right. Now, here's the final twist to this, right, quoting the story again. The state agency is considering considering similar emissions regulations for commercial fishing operations which operate more than one thousand boats in the state. If it passes, though that program won't take effect until twenty thirty five. The Air Resources Board plans to give commercial fishing boat owners extra time to comply because agency officials say the businesses don't have the same ability to pass on the cost of new engines and boats to their customers. That seems like the opposite of what you would think, now, I will it does, I will say, though, I'm assuming that they're talking about mom and pop commercial operations like the big corporation, you know, yeah, exactly, but still but still so, if these regulations pass, it will require all the boats in the fishing fleet to be up to code in three but boat owners who have financial difficulties meeting the deadline may request postponing compliance until as late as four And guess what, I'm betting the vast majority of will ask for the tension right, Hey, hey man, now here's the thing, dude. Two years is a pretty unreasonable amount of time to buy a new two to five million dollar boat. Now ten years, ten years, I think that everybody can afford a new two to five million dollar boate. I think that's plenty of time to save. That Does that include from now? Can I get a five million dollars seventy two ft Viking? I mean, I think it's economically. It's another shout out for you, by the way, Viking, if you're listening, I just keep I'm just gonna keep dropping you until you give me the damn boat. Oh my god. Anyway, So, look, so this is a really shitty situation, and and I'm not saying there aren't two sides. I'm all for cleaner air and better tomorrow, as are you right? There's no argument there, But I also feel like you don't have any yet, right. But I also feel like I have a better understanding of how the party boat business works than a lot of these quote experts and researchers, and I'm certain the boat owners feel the same way. Like you have to consider how my prices have already been hiked just to accommodate rising fuel costs just that alone, Like when I was a kid, it costs like forty bucks a person to go fluke fishing on a party boat. Now I think it's closer to a hundred. And then now you factor in, you know, regulation changes within certain fisheries. To use fluke as an example, again, they have to be so big to keep anymore, like a keeper fluke. Now, if I caught it when I was eight years old, the whole dock would have been like, holy sh it, did you see that fluke that kid Joey caught over on sea dock? Like it's a massive fluke, right, And it's very difficult to catch keepers and your limit of them, So for a lot of people, it doesn't pay to go on a party boat to catch them anymore, you know, what I'm saying, Like I was just out last week and our TALG season just open here there were ten party boats out with very few people on any of them, and years ago they had have been packed. But for many people, I think that a party boat is no longer like the ch option. I mean, for a lot of people, a hundred hundred fifty bucks, like that's that's not cheap anymore. Um. And frankly, I question how many even stay in business already. I question how they make even enough to keep the boats running, let alone turn a significant profit. So for these boats in California, So it's a pretty crushing blow man, you know. Yeah, yeah, I couldn't imagine kind of just having that like that burden just sort of like thrust upon you. Um, even even if it's for these like objectively good reasons. The problem that I like, I often that's the problem, isn't it. Like it's not a bad reason. The core reason yeah, yeah, yeah, the core reason is good. That the thing is is like, as folks, we see problems, and because the problem exists, we also assume a perfect solution exists. And I feel like that's where a lot of folks get hung up is like in looking for these perfect solutions that don't exist. Yeah, I don't really know what to do with the information that you just gave me about this, like, because it seems the number one thing that we have to do as folks is work to better our environment because you know, you get one on the flip side of that, it's like, can you justify all this like collateral damage? Um, you know, to make up for how we like Stubb since the Industrial Revolution? You know, and I mean you're you're going deep, but even on just a lesser level, it just pains me. Even though I don't know the full story on the commercial ops, it just seems like another way to kick Mom and Pop in the ass, Like why them first? I mean, like these businesses are struggling so hard already, and like you said, it's an entertainment industry. They're not a party. But it's not a necessity. You know. Let me ask you this though, like how how in this particular scenario, how don't you kick like a Mom and Pop in the ass. It's very difficult, you know. It's it's it's like with like long you know, own an operator truck drivers. You know, it's like, how don't you kick them in the ass. Is it like a grant situation? Yeah, and we're not going to figure that out right now. But it also it's just another way listeners, this podcast is going to go on until Joe and are stopping. I'm gonna go make another charming sandwich. We'll be here for a while. Yeah, right on. So, uh, you know, sad story. It's it's just another blow to fishing. You know, we already deal with so much of that with regulations that get thrust upon us that aren't thrust upon commercial guys, and back and forth. I hope this figures its way out, and uh, at least they buy ten years to figure it out, not have to have it done by twenty three. So hey, Joe man, let's let's let's let's move on here. Let's move into a way that recreational fishing and commercial fishing might be helping save the environment. That transition. I like, it's good alright. So um, I know I've been on the international beat for the last couple to three weeks here, but now I'm bringing it back to I guess Montana terms, you know, right down the right down the road from where I am. Unlike a lot of stories I've been bringing to the table. This is sort of like a the story that requires a little bit of context and unpacking, and I'm going to break this ship down into like a where what when kind of organizations say yeah, do it. I also wanted to say that down the road in Montana could be like three hours away, right, it's differ is It's about that? So, speaking of let's start with where. Um. Okay, So this story comes from Lena Beck writing for The Counter and I apologize if I mispronounced your first name. There. Um. So, there's this big gass lake out here called Flathead Lake, and it's like two hundred square miles or something. I think it's the biggest lake in the state. Uh, you know, to contextualize, bigger than the Lake Tahoe. Um. Now, Flathead Lake straddles an important boundary, the boundary between the state of Montana and the Flathead Reservation, home of the Confederate Sailish and Kotney tribes. This is important and we're gonna get to why later on. Anyhow, Flathead Lake basically forever has been a stronghold for what I think of is one of the defining species of the American West and that's the bull trout So that's our what if you're not journalism class, throw it back. If if you're not familiar, bull troutter basically like a giant I mean, I know you are familiar. Job is for listeners, bultrotter basically a giant badass char And incidentally they actually look a little bit like lakers Um. They're super cool and they're also super protected. In fact, there are only a handful of fishery is outside of Canada where you can legally target them. Yeah, and I mean all the places I've been, I've yet to go on a on a bully trip like a legit you're allowed to fish for them. Here, Bully trip still on my bucket list. Yeah. So we got our where, we got our what Now let's talk about when? And there are actually like three winds in this story. You got nineteen o five, one and a couple of dates more or less more or less in the last two decades, which I'm gonna lump together here mostly for sentence structure. Let's start from the beginning. In nineteen o five, Montana officials made the dumbass decision to put non native fish into Flathead Lake among them the lake trout. The lake trout took to their new environment the best out of all these non native species that were introduced, And for a long time it wasn't a big deal. And in fact, it was like pretty rare that you caught one. But they were just kind of this omnipresent. Uh. Folks reference them or reference them, refer to them as macinal. So I'm going to use that word in here a couple of times, and it is half the battle, okay. So, and then in so it's it's been fine for like seventy five years. Then in mices shrimp were introduced into the lake. Um. The idea was that they'd be a great food resource for the cocon ey salmon, another non native fish that inhabited the Flathead Right. Well, this backfired spectacularly. Uh. Cocon Ey salmon almost exclusively eat zoo plankton and weren't super interested in the shrimp at all. Um Mices shrimp also eat zooplankton, and eventually the shrimp population grew to such numbers that they out competed the cocony By uh, there were no more cocon e in Flathead Lake, which, in the context of this story, like is kind of unimportant. The important thing is that there are were a lot of shrimp kicking around. Uh So the cocony weren't about them, but you know who did love to eat them? Who's that the lake trout, specifically juvenile lake trout. And because the shrimp were so abundant, the lake trout population exploded. But these little shrimp can only sustain a laker for so long. Eventually the lakers had to eat other bigger things. Do you see where this is going, Joe, I see where this is going because this this happens all over the country. Lakers are a great idea until they're not and they start eating all the native fish and things like that. Yep, they started eating all the native fish and things like that, and particularly uh trout. They were estimated to be about a thousand left in Flathead Lake. M hmm brittle, Yeah, pretty much extirpated. Anyhow, So back to the fact that Flathead is on both res Land and Montana state Land, it became obvious to both sides that this ship was a major problem. So around two thousand they came together and decided that they needed to tackle this situation. From what I could tell, the Confederated SAILORSH and Kutiney tribes. From here out, I'm going to refer to them as c s KT and the state. That's an acronym. Bro Okay that that started out on the same foot. Opting for an angular centric solution to the problem, the c s KAT started a program called mac Days mack and short from Mackinaw and at the inaugural events, like nine hundred mcinal were caught. Now the number is close to sixty thousand caught annually at these events. It's a lot of yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a lot. Despite this call, the c s KT noticed that the population was only expanding to the point that by the mid two thousand's they realized that an angler approach wasn't going to be sufficient. The state disagreed and continued to push for an angler based approach to management um. But long story short, eventually the state came around and saw what the c s k T had seen all along, that a different approach was absolutely necessary. Well, yeah, man, and this sort of thing has happened in a lot of places with lakers. Dare I bring up snakeheads? After being berated about my snakehead obsession earlier in this podcast, But I mean, same deal. It's like, hey, no limit, catch all you want, catch all you don't do, But that often doesn't work to fix the problem. Like you can open the limits. You could say, you know, kill all you want. Um. Sometimes, you know, the hunter Angler sort of approached conservation. It isn't always the be all end all. It's not always the answer. It's just it's gonna happen that way. It could be part of it, It could always be part of it in most circumstances, but sometimes it's just too big of a problem. So what the c s k T did was developed a commercial fishing program. See kids, commercial fishing isn't always the devil, and it can in fact help of fishery. Anyhow, They basically net a ship ton of these things and sell them to restaurants, grocery stores, and private buyers. It's about five and a half times more effective than the MAC days alone. The MAC days alone represent about four thousand pounds of fish removed annually, where the commercial fishery represents closer to pounds. Right, So, I mean, are they pretty confident do they do? They think this is really going to solve um? The problem you get rid of the lakers and flathead once and for all. They confident in that sort of Um, they think that this is going to Their goal is in to get rid of them altogether, because you know, short of like poisoning a body of water, it's basically impossible. Um. They do think that this is going to reduce the population of lakers by like se, which, based upon their projections, will get the bull shop popular lation to bounce back to around, which is an infinitely more tenable situation and would constitute like a huge conservation success story. Anyhow, that's pretty much my fish news story. It's not exactly like a current event, but it highlights how complex our fisheries can be and how much impact our own meddling has in the survival of our native fish. You know, whether it's to increase sport fisheries or you know, a lot of times to see fish introduced to grass carp you know, aid some sort of perceived problem. Um. It also demonstrates like the importance of including native folks in the management of their own land. You know a lot of times, you know, we like to come in and decide what needs to be done, but ultimately we we can learn a lot by deferring uh a certain amount of our opinion to maybe the people that it impacts the most. And I think we can learn a lot from that great example of a lot of things that sort of get bad rap and have a lot of infighting working um together here and I certainly hope this is the solution, even though it's it's sort of harsh. It's a it's a quicker, more harsh way to get rid of all these fish. The bullstrot are more important. And I think in a case where you're not fighting about um and I'm not knocking it, but we've done stories here about like chubs and minnows that were native that went away and then there were there were fights to bring those back. Bullstrots are pretty special fish. I mean, by my own admission, it's something I have not gone to chase yet. UM. So I hope to see that works. So I don't know, we'll we'll defer to Phil to see what worked in our favor this week. Phil, Um, you know, I have to put down the bulls. The turkey on white bread and the bull stoked up for a second and then after that, I don't know, it's it's uh. I think I think you and I deserve to go have a drink in honor of Thanksgiving weekend. Are we going to a bar? We are Hey's Holes. Despite the big divorce parents energy coming from my mom and dad in the late nineties. It may shock you to learn that I have never had stovetop stuffing. I had my fair share of the journo's pizza and Hamburger helper, but I don't think I've had a loaf of white bread in my house. Since those events are unrelated. That's just kind of how the timing worked out. I don't know what to tell you anyway. The winner this week is the Lake Trout. Congrats, I'm winning the big Fishy lottery, and I hope you had a lovely Thanksgiving. So, Hayden, before we scurry the show along, keep moving forward here, how about another clip? All right? Let's do it all right? Great? Round three? Is this a clip from a phishing infomercial or exercise infomercial? But it failed at first, but then it began to work. Once at work, I knew I was onto something. I put my job. Well, um, somebody talking about how they quit their job for this immediately makes me think it was fishing related. Uh, it's a tough one that I've tried to make him increasingly more difficult. The VHS like static. It makes you think it was low budget to begin with. So this dude quit his job to pursue this. It didn't have a lot of money making his infomercial I'm gonna go fishing again. Oh man, good, I'm proud of you. Three for three, that's the flying Man that is flying Laura in Ventnor Alex Langer talking about what he did to get the Flying Lawer off the ground. But it's not flying that high today, to be honest with you. So you know, I always thought it was a great lure. I still have some great lords. The tube that it falls backwards like you throw it against the dock and it falls backwards under the dock. I actually had, actually had Hank actually had Hank Parker himself once tell me that the Flying Lore is real good, and I believe him. Anyway, Those were fun So all right, Uh, it's it's kind of time to bring the show home here, and I think there's there's nothing that says home for the holiday is quite like getting wasted with your dumbass high school friends at the local bar you've been sneaking into since you were sitting through a pecalc. You sat through a pcalc. Right, you are grossly overestimating how good of a student I was, Man, I was. I was protelling what it came to math, I was terrible, all right, all right, that look that may be the case, but let's go have a drink and we can talk about where it all went wrong. Um, it's time for one of my favorite segments, and this week we have a great one coming to us from the Silver State. It's time for it. That's my bar best god damn bartender from kim Buck to to Portland, Maine, a port and argument for that matter. Now, I've always associated Thanksgiving weekend. Uh it's kind of a drinking weekend, right, but I will admit that. Um yeah, back in the day, I never really did the Thanksgiving Eve bar crawl because I was usually fishing Thanksgiving morning and I didn't want to get all banged up. Um what about you? You like there's that a party night or or get some sleep night? Uh, we'll see. Here's the thing, man, I hate everybody that I went to high school with, so all right, like I's not trying to run into him bar. That is that is very fair. I can sort of identify with that. Yes, for sure, that's that's a good call. Um, Okay, there you go. Anyway, it's also a big travel weekend of course. Um. And maybe you have family three hours northeast of Las Vegas. They'll probably not because I think only five or six families live there. Yeah, you know, so the odds are unlikely. But regardless, about three hours northeast of Vegas, you will find the town of posh Nevada, which is the closest town to the bar we're featuring, which is the Eagle Valley Resort. And this nomination comes to us from listener Ben Parks. And here's what he says. Eagle Valley Resort might as well have a sign out front that says degenerate anglers welcome. I've never actually looked for a definition of the word resort, but I'm pretty sure this ain't it. The bar dog will greet you, the locals will scallet you, and the mixture of cigarette smoke and the smell of stale beer will transport you back to the nineteen seventies when your dad lets you Sometimes tag along with him to the bar, located about three hours north northeast of Las Vegas and just a few miles from the Nevada Utah border, is the best fishing bar I've ever found in Nevada. While there must be at least three more fishing bars in Nevada, I haven't found them yet. With Eagle Valley Reservoir a few miles upstream and Echo Canyon Reservoir eight miles downstream, you have too to all caps fishing options around here. And in parentheses, he says, us Nevada's get excited about fishing options, not many, Okay, Well, so they might not have a ton of fishing options out there in the desert, although Pyramid Lakes in Nevada, right it is. And I gotta tell you, man, like I've never really, I've only desert fished a little bit. I've always wanted to fish around Vegas or film something there. But um, he's right, like, there's not a there's not a ton of options. I don't spend that much time in the desert. And even with the options that there are, Ben doesn't exactly sell us on those. Uh No, Now it continues after you've spent a day soaking power bait for stocker rainbows or throwing lures for the unimpressive large mouths and crappy or drowning meal worms on the very short ice season, so one could imagine you can head to the resort for a cold one part general store for the necessities. Fourth of July colored power bait with sparkles is crushing them today. It's the best part right there, part bar in part casino with video poker and slot machines, parenthesy, what else would you expect from a tiny bar and nowhere Nevada. A few crusty trout and bass bounce on the walls, along with various dilapidated mounted critters. It all really sets them beyond meter. To my sister in law is an aspiring I'm reading this for the first time. My sister in law is an aspiring rustic interior decorator. Yeah, so I gotta say right, it was such a nice touch on the fourth of July covered power bait that like really sets the vibe of the area. Okay. Also, I've used that before, truth and it works. Um, I'm pretty sure the glitter it's infused with is biodegradable at least I think. Um. Anyway, it's probably not no anyway moving along, the more remote the place is, the more needs it has to fulfill. R V spots, yep, rented cabin, yup fishing supplies, beer, butter, milk, eggs, replacement mantles for your ancient Coleman landard, yep, Cell service, Nope. Your kids can slam billiard balls around on the table until one of them smashes a finger. You can work your way to the bathrooms through the undulations that you know means there were at least three phases of construction in parentheses brother in law's aspiring rustic architect. Or you can drink your beer in silence as you stare at the sign behind the bar that says we don't call nine one one with a barrel end view of a three fifty seven no ship. Your phone isn't gonna work here anyway. This dude must be young, because I we got to remind him that there are such thing as landlines, and I bet you this relic of a bar might have one, right, I still have one. The only people that call our spam and my my mother, well, you don't know why we keep it landline or not. Man, you know that the lone sheriff of that county is already in there anyhow, and he has probably more inclined to help hide the bodies rather than do yes. It reminds me of the scene in The Vacation when the sheriff is the mechanic that rips Clark griswold Off on bald tires um. Anyway, well, I can't say I think that we're gonna rush out to fish there after that exciting overview of the angling opportunities. This does sound like an absolutely killer bar. I would drink there with bells on. Ben. Thank you for sending that one along. And if you've got a fishy dive you want shouted out, send your nomination and description to us at bent at the meat Eater dot com. So that's it for this week. And let's be honest, most of you are probably out doing fun things on Black Friday. You had a day off, so if you caught up after the holiday, I guess I could say probably happy Cyber Monday to most of you at this point. We hope everybody had a wonderful Thanksgiving and that you're getting on the water or in the field. This weekend with family or just the good people you choose to surround yourself with. And you should tell all those people about the Bent podcast. Maybe ask them to send a bar nomination or an awkward photo or elban item to Bent at the meat Eater dot com. You should definitely ask that, and you should also definitely keep using those Bent podcast and Degenerate Angler hashtags on Instagram. And speaking of Instagram, let's close out with a final infomercial clip just for you, the listeners. Okay, we're gonna we're gonna close out with one. Feel free to comment on my Friday Bent post on Instagram and let me know if you think this is a hokey fishing product or terrible exercise equipment being pushed. Either way, no matter which one it is, Bonus points if you can name the product. If it just doesn't work for you, we've got a six month money back guarantee. That's right. You can try this thing out for six months, and if you don't like it at any point, you can send it back to us and we'll give you a refunds Desta