00:00:14 Speaker 1: My name is Clay and Nukeleman. This is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called The Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f HF Gear, American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. It's been a long run since I've seen you guys on the Bear Grease Render. It's true. Yeah, this is a this is a monumental day for us. We have the poor life of the city, the the the o G original Gangster Bear Grease Render crew here today. I have to my left my lovely wife, Missy Nukam. Welcome back, Misty. Good to be here supporting her first, like Parka, actually Clay's first. Like when I'm really cold, I put on Clay's really really big puffy one. So you guys, the last time we saw I saw you was before I went to Alaska in September, because you guys did a render without me on when I was in Alaska. And then the next time we did a render. Um I believe no, no, we did multiple renders, and I've been traveling and so you guys have been out of the out of the picture for a little while. It's like our vacation time. You remember when I asked Artie Stewart, if poachers are jealous, I'm gonna do do. Does the Render crew get jealous? No, not, Brent, Okay, I think it's envious or envy. Jealousy is when you are concerned that someone's gonna steal what you have, and envyous when you want what some else has. It's a good distinction. That is a good distinction. Gary and I were just talking about the Render you had with all the folks from back home. That was a pretty good That was incredible. Feedback from the Render with Scott Andy, Steve Phillips, Randy Steppe, coy House, Gary Nukem, Yeah, that was a good one. That was a really good I really enjoyed the one with James Lawrence and yes, that was I would have Gerald Brewer on this podcast every week. Feed drive up here. I have so many good Jail Brewer stories. We need to He got a head of hair like a movie star. So missies to my left and then Brent Reeves, Who's who's I've got. We've got a little dialogue to have together, Brent, Welcome, Thank you to your left, Josh Lambridge Pillmaker, Josh. Good to be back to see you back in the saddle. Great to see you. To Josh's left, Isaac Neil, I'm just happy to be invited to the user of the Burgers podcast. Got a nice mustache right now too. My wife said, uh, why don't you shave your beard and do a mustache? And I said, yes, ma'am. Did she mean a food mancho Okay, so I had not shaved because she might not have that's a different thing. So I haven't shaved in eleven years at all, like anything at all. And so I shaved, and as I was going, I was thinking, just like, you know, the cop mustache, the dad mustache, just topp And then I started shaving. I was like, well, I don't know, so I just kind of stopped. It wasn't even like the bottom of the jaw foo man choose, just like That's when it occurred to me. And I was like, well, i'll just find out, Like she's getting home in an hour. And so she came home and she's like, yeah, that's that's good, that's acceptable. Okay, Okay, we need to probably come back to talking about facial hair and that. Yeah after, just after you introduce our last person, because we need to talk about your most recent mediator video. Okay, So, into Isaac's left is Gary Believer Nukem, who your name came up on the podcast this week unannounced. You heard that. I wasn't sure if you had approved of that or not. That was okay, okay, I wouldn't pretty notorious with that with my buddies over the years. Good, well, good as I did it, I was like, I think it'd be cool with this. So, uh, Brent Reeves, your career kind of is that a forking road? I guess so is your freedom? Uh? So, how how did you feel, um now that your coversman busted? Has it been efficiently busted? Well? I mean I've called you out NonStop on this podcast for being an undercover agent or man. You can say anything. You can say a rooster dip snuff, but if you don't see a snuff can under his wing is still ain't true. So am I right? I'm still piecing all that together in my brain. I I feel like the big difference is Clay is saying I saw the snuff can yeah, yeah, I saw the snuff. Can well it remains to be seen. Okay, okay, just keeping right if that's what you're doing. I never stopped. Okay, that's in opinion. I never started perfectly doing wrong. I mean, everybody makes a mistake it right now? Then well wait, can I just can I just say, did you check his hat for a wire? Yeah? Maybe, Britain, I think you're the one where in the wire take your shirt off? Yeah? And that was that on this podcast. I don't know. I think it's the last one. I want to say the full story of that one is on the next because we're doing a full three episodes with our t It's uh, I think that story is on the next one, but I can't. But I think I told you all about those anyway. Yeah, I don't remember that part. Okay. There's a story of Urt being accused of wearing a wire. Okay, he does. He has a very wise moved in a in a script change. Humans have scripts of how they interact with one another. He does a script change. So you guys actually just let the black panther out of the bag. Hey, let me say something. I was about to challenge Brent to do the same thing to prove it, thinking that I heard on the podcast, but I just heard you say it, and next week when everyone hears what RTI Stewart does the script change. I think it'd be worthwhile to think Misty almost challenged Brent to do the same thing, and I think I'll make it boy laugh, especially because Brient would have no idea what I'm talking about, and for me to just say that, So Brent Brett used to work undercover for you know people, quote unquote, And I mean, what a great cover would it be to say I used to work undercover, but don't anymore, and then to stay this long inside of it. So you used to do undercover narcotics for how long a period of your life? About sixteen years? Sixteen years, that's a long time. It was a long time. How long did you What was the longest you ever stayed undercover? Uh? Probably I'm gonnaant to guess about four or five months at a time. We usually could get it done in that length of time. Yeah, it was. It was drug stuff. So yeah, you're not. I mean you're not. Once you build a once you build a case, you get two or three buys on somebody, it took longer to get in than it did to actually do it, so and what I I should probably explain it took longer. Liking the podcast, Artie talked about developing the social stuff. Well, there wasn't any money exchanging hands and when when you're hunting illegal turkeys, but with the idea that somebody's gonna get paid if they get one sliver of Okay, I think I can trust this guy. Dead presidents will get you into some place that you normally couldn't go. And I mean, you know money, you're flash enough money, you know, I've I've even I think I told the tale on here. One time I had an informant that went up knocked on the door, and it's all recording, right, and the guy comes out and he says his name wasn't Bob, but I'll say, He'll say, Bob, I know you're working for the police, but you get that money in your hand, so I'm gonna sell it to you. So a lot of the motivation for that because the money man. But I mean it's like what goods might do you when you're in jail. Well he I mean he said I know. When he said I know, he was just he was gambling. He was gambling and he wasn't, but he wanted him to know that. You know, I know in the past you have been an informant, but this person also had a drug problem and this guy knew it. So up until the time he was working for us, he was probably buying from this guy. Okay, I understand. I was thinking it was you you went to the door. It was an informant one for you that particular time. Was was an informant that did it. Yeah, but you know, you moved into a play a lot of the techniques and stuff that he was using. I did the same thing. You moved into a place and you worked there, and you hang out in the places where those places those folks are, and you know, you develop a rapport with them. Now, it was it was easy because I never once had any inclination of like or affection for any of the folks that I was dealing with. And it's it's easy to see how because you're just that perfect. Well, he they wasn't killing turkeys, you know they were. Yeah, they were spreading cocaine and meth and feed amine and Harry, we don't know whatever it was that we were targeting. That's what they were putting in the community. So it was I got a lot of satisfaction from doing it. Yeah, so you never had that, like they talked in this podcast about that phenomenon where you actually, you know, develop closeness to you never had that int r Twe did some undercovered narcotic work. This was on the podcast, and he said he hated it just because it was so rough, like buying drugs, you know, there's it was just rough people all the way around, and and in the poaching rings he was in, it was a lot of rough people, but it was a different crowd of people, and he was involved in something that he was passionate about. So it's not like a narcotics guy is going to be passionate about hopefully not passionate about narc automn wanting to get the illegal sale of him off the ground, you see what I'm saying. So there, it was just a different it was a different world. Well I don't, you know, I don't that's kind of not true. It was absolutely my goal every day I went to work to get as much as I could off the street. We remember one year in particular, we got an award from then Governor Huckabee. For every one dollar of money that we spent out of our budget, we got three dollars worth of drugs for a year off the street at the end of the year. When we tell you that what we spent, Yeah, absolutely well. And I wasn't saying that you guys didn't like doing what you're doing. I was just saying you weren't like arties passionate about turkey hunting. He stopped in turkey poachers, you guys, that That was my point. I understand what you're saying. Yeah, it was. It was interesting. It was it was hard, It was scary at times. It was probably the best part of my career and the worst part from my home life. But it was. It was eventful. Can you tell us the story of when your life was threatened or you were scared, or there was something like your cover was busted? Anything entertain Did you ever have your cover busting? No? Um, I didn't. And then we were really careful about that. We worked in we tried. That's reason not moved, you know, different places. Was once you get known in the area, once the bust out it comes when you make all the cases that you can make in an area and you get and you arrest everybody. It was just like r T. Then you gotta go to court for the ones that don't want them plead guilty, you know, and make a deal. And I don't want anybody to think that I ain't making a deal, you know, if you're selling meth and feed amine or cocaine or anything like that. The schedule the drugs that follow in the category of what they call us a class y, which in Arkansas was punishable from ten to forty to life in prison. They wasn't taking who wasn't getting somebody that was selling you know, ounces and pounds of meth and feed amine and giving them five years in the penitentiary and you know, probation they were pleading to, you know, twenty five years, thirty years in prison. You can go on the court, you know. I had there was one guy in particular then in uh South Arkansas and Union County, and I had bought from him hand to hand, I don't know, five or six times. And that was one that it took about not about three months to do, I guess. And I finally got to deal with him direct and he was gonna they were going to do the discredit the officer thing, you know what art he was saying, And that's that's what they that's really the only game. When they got you know, photo and video evidence and a hand to hand by from a police officer, and they offered him, the prosecutor offered him twenty five years uh indepenitentiary to plead guilt, and he's like no, he said, no, I'm taking I'm going to court. And he went to court and they charged him with two counts and he got forty five years on on each one of them. Yeah, he's in prison now. Really. Yeah. I wonder if he listens to this podcast. I hope so, Hey, Robert, that's why it's pretty interesting, man. I just can't believe that you can do at and live. Yeah, and I would think that somebody would be after you today. You know. You know, it was more or less, and we put a lot of folks in prison. Uh, but a lot of them had the mindset that their job was to sale drugs and our job was to catch them. If they got away with it, we lost, and if we called them, we won. And they let it pretty well let it go with that. You know, there's been a few threats, but nothing was ever carried out, nothing that we even took serious. And we went to great links to keep our home addresses and our families out of them, out of the deal of reports anything that could be you know, found under discovery laws. And this is also before Facebook. Yeah, you know. I had a couple of people mentioned to me. They said, hey, how how can you tell all this stuff and not be hurting law enforcement operations maybe going on right now. And to be honest with you, I don't have a real good answer for that. Well, I can answer that the technology is well beyond anything they're not sending in people like that. Sure, but the old poach coach with the VCRs and all of that, No, I don't need it anywhere they don't need it. There's those other ways, and I mean I won't get specifics about it, um, but no, there's other ways to do it. Have anything to do with hiding cameras and overalls, could be you never enough pocket watches, pocket watches. It reminds me look at that pocket Prince Pool. That was pocket watch. That was good. It's got a clear top on it, beautiful pocket watch. Well that that is what So the what God has started on all. This was when I did the series on Loud and Charlie Edwards and just as the story unfolded, like it was like real journalism. I really don't think of myself as a journalist, but that's what that was, misty, real journalist. As the story unfolded, a man came to came to me and said, hey, I know a law enforcement guy came to me and said I know the guy and how to contact him of who worked undercover to try to get lou down Charlie and so I go and talk to Russ Arthur And that's kind of when this whole undercover interests popped up. And so Isaac and I were interviewing Chip Gross in Ohio for the Lewis Wetzel podcast, which was requested by Steve ronnella. Lewis Wetzel's a serial killer, and Gross and the Louis Del Charlie Edwards stuff had just come out, and I say, hey, we just did a big thing about these turkey poaching outlaws in Arkansas. Chip Growth says, well, guess what. I'm a former Ohio game warden and I wrote a book about Artie Stewart, who's still alive retired and and that's how all the started and so and and I drove up to Ohio on like the October, drove there by myself and met with RT and talked to him for like three hours, and it was it was really interesting. Just RT is an interesting guy. You know, you only get so you're you're getting the cherry picked parts of these of these interviews. You know, it was. I mean, you know, and you guys have heard the whole whole story. But I've had some people say that they don't like this dark stuff. But the America is fascinated with crime. The number one podcast in the world is Crime Junkie. Did you know that Isaac was the one to the producer of Burger's podcast. I just listened to it. The story that we were talking about earlier. That was the one my dad sent me that that was the podcast I listened to, okay earlier. What you're gonna say, Mr, I'm not fascinated with it, and I'm not. I don't judge people who are. I'm just saying for me personally, I can't. I remember reading reading Crime and Punishment and and not being able to sleep, having not like I actually had to stop reading the book I was I was pregnant with bear, and it could have I don't know I had something to do with that. I don't, but I remember reading just I just can't handle that delving into the dark parts of people's like that level a guy on Instagram the other day I said, the only way we really appreciate the light just to understand the darkness. Yeah, that was pretty good, And yeah I said something like that, but there's a touch of that that's really true. It sounds like a funny jobber, but but to me, it's interesting in this country of law and order that we live in, Like in our society obeying laws, the rule of law is deeply inside of all of us and you pop out and don't know it, but you're born into a society that is fixated on laws. I mean, even when you think about the politics of the country, politics is all about you know, this much government or that much government. It's all about balance. If you if you look at traffic in this country versus traffic in other countries, you see the rule of law. You see, like if you travel to that's where I've seen the rule of law is just watching how people obey stoplights when no one's watching when there's no polace around, when it's past, you know time. And then you go to other countries in the midst of rush hour and people are like, there's no regard for the law whatsoever. And that's that is uniquely right. And and so when we look at the North American model of wildlife conservation and we see it as the most the most successful animal husbandry effort of humans ever, it has been based upon a group of people that were, for the most part, willing to obey the law, which is so wild because there was no law until the turn of the twentieth century. In the nineteen hundreds, it was there was market hunting. So these the Europeans that came over here, unregulated hunting, no rules, no law. The market dictated like how many deer you could kill? How many of this you could kill? And then wildlife populations plummeted. Roosevelt, Boone and Crockett Club, all these guys came in and said, hey, we gotta manage these things, we gotta we gotta put laws in. All these state game agencies started popping up out of nowhere around the nineteen hundred. They instituted game laws. There was a generation of people that despised it because they were like, what, this is just like Europe because the mentality was that had come from Europe where the peasants, normal people, non rich people didn't have access to wildlife. And then we come over here and they're like, hey, this is gonna become just like Europe. And Roosevelt was like, no, just trust me, this is all gonna be good. And then we just like work through this journey to get to like, let's just say that as arbitrary time. But like about the time Dad started bow hunting and and dear population started rising, Turkey population started rising, it was like, hey, we all pretty much need to obey the law and and and from that, you know, some didn't, but for the most part, people obey the law, and that's such a critical thing. So to me, that's why it's interesting. It's not just like crime. Um. But I also think it's interesting to me because I have spent the better part of my life really trying to follow the rules. So when I see someone that just absolutely doesn't follow the rules, I'm just like, who is this guy? And I got that from Gary Nukle. Really you you you said you always just kind of enjoyed just looking at people who were a little bit crazy. Yeah. Yeah, would you describe it like that? Yeah, absolutely, it's entertaining. I mean I didn't I didn't like it, but it was so opposite of the way I was raised. It was like entertainment. See how crazy some of these people were. What do you think about this uh series so far? You know, I think it's excellent. I enjoy crime and punishment, you know, Uh, I'm attracted to it, and I think a lot of it just has to do the way I was Did you just say that you're attracted to crime? Well, you know, I like to what I like to watch what's going on afterre and this is this is no exception. It's very good, very good. I do have one complaint though, Okay, let's hear you know. I mean, you got you got a pretty good gig going here. But the music when you start this podcast, it sounds like it's on a record where the needles going back and forth. I mean, what's I mean? No, I don't know what. We don't deserve the crisp music. Yeah, that's polish purpose. What what you're referring to is the is the music and the render it goes and then it it comes in full. Yeah you don't like that. No, I don't like that. But you're saying that's intentional. Man, you gotta be kidding. I'm not even joking about what's good about it. I don't know Phil Taylor did it? Phil? You know what I'm talking. You know what. It's a good effect. It's an effect. It's just a little spice of life. Yeah, because it catches you off guard. It's it's like a script change. You think you're gonna come in and hear this, but then you you're like, wait a minute, it sounds it kicks in. We'll see the smart people figure that out. But when you got a i Q sixty, you're like, so that's the only in a lot of your audience the first time you caught that. I mean, you know how you saying, Clay's audience is a little like some of it. Any audience does. So anyway, I'd like Taylor to is it Taylor till Taylor? Bill Taylor get that text, man, He'll keep it. What what stood out to you? Was there any part of it that you just you liked? I mean stories of you know, the individual stories, some of them. I just really enjoyed. You know, I listened to that three times and uh, I just liked every bit of it. Period. But on the way up here, I thought, you know, I'm like to come up with something that's my favorite thing, and you know what I'm gonna say, And it's pretty close to the truth when you said, boys, get the popcorn. Now, you know, whenever he watched the VHS tape, Yeah, the judge in jury is gonna watch the take, man get the popcorn. Now. I enjoyed it, you know, just all of it. I mean the whole thing, and um, it was just really intriguing to me, and I think, um, it was one of my favorite overall. I mean, it doesn't probably stack up with Daniel Boone or some of the others. It's historically, you know, you get into some really cool stuff, but the entertainment wise, it was up there pretty high for me. Yeah, Josh, what was your favorite part of what you've heard so far? I think I think I'm just fascinated with the psychology of being an undercover agent and just having to like constantly live a lie in such a way that your lie becomes your reality. And I think that's I can't quite wrap my mind around that. How that affects the way you think and the way that you see life, how you connect with people that you genuinely have relationship with, and then just the fact of of building relationships with people that you're going to have to arrest, you know what I mean, that's it's got to throw you into termo what it takes a very unique individual to be able to do that. Um, you know, I think I think the average person couldn't couldn't do that. And so just listening to him talk and that's even how he would talk to you and just kind of be like, is that the truth? Did I tell you the truth? You know what I mean? It was just like it's like wow, I can't I can't imagine what that's like, just having that dichotomy inside so long that the dichotomy disappears, And I wonder sometimes like like do you do you are you able to differentiate between what's reality and what's not? Um, it's pretty fascinating. But I also also like like hearing him say, you know, I recognize what this has done to my family and and you know, it put a lot of strain on my relationships and you know, I regret that, you know, I think the work that I did was good, but I regret the the you know, what it did to my family. I think, I think that takes a It takes a an honest uh. It takes a self evaluative person to be able to to look at that and admit that with with um, with humility, and so I think that, you know, I don't know what his life is like now, but I think he probably you know, spends a lot more time investing in things that are valuable in his life. Yeah. I think that idea of an undercover agent getting close to somebody is something that you typically wouldn't think about. And the main reason I thought about it was because of lou down Charlie. Typically we have a really easy, easy time like just say, talking about a criminal, just very derogatively, just like criminals. Of course, anybody would you know, go in undercover and would be thrilled to turn these guys, which is a true story, but it's a little more nuanced than that. And that's the whole thing about Louis Dell and Charlie. That was the whole story, The whole part of that series that was so interesting is that these were actually too many people, really likable people, but also these outlaws, and so I think that's and and then you know, ARTI is just a random agent that kind of picked out of the hat. And I go to him and I say, hey, were you ever really close to somebody that you had respect for? And he's, you know, yep, sure was. There was this one guy. So and then I talked to Matthew Sharps, Dr. Matthew Sharps, who says, this is really common. So that's an interesting thing. And that's where you can't take the human out of the equation, and human beings being susceptible to relationship, susceptible to liking someone, susceptible to seeing something good in someone even if even if there's some bad stuff. So I mean, I think that's a good I was honestly surprised. The other way, I felt like I was a little bit surprised that he only had a closer relationship with one person, Like I feel like when you're around people, and this probably speaks to the character of the people that he was around, and that we're making a career out of proaching, But just like I feel like I can start to empathize with or you know, have a have a person to person relationship with just about anybody if I've given enough time around them. But I think that's kind of remarkable that there was really only one that he was like, Man, I feel bad for this guy the rest of him. No feeling actually took out part of what he said because it was so hard. Uh. At one point when I said what about these other guys, and he just said they're despicable people. I mean like yeah, uh and uh, and I mean you try, just like when he they asked the defense lawyer asked if he smoked dope with a guy and he said, yeah, I did. I believed Art when he said they were despicable people because he also was like Target number two was actually a pretty good guy, just caught up in a bad part of his life. And oh man, I I can't spill the beans too much because there are no beans. Josh, there's no beans. But I would love to talk to Target number two. I know who he is, where he lives. Oh, I mean I don't know, like the address of his house is he is he one of our relatives. I know where the guys at, and I think he actually I think that he's actually a really good, good guy. Now, I would suspicion that he would talk to you. I bet you he's one of these guys that says, hey, man, I got kind of trapped up and in a man I regret it, and I got a wonderful family, and I got a great job and I look back on that period and you know, I mean, who knows. That's my instinct too, And uh, I'm actually trying to reach out to the guy right now. That would be awesome if you could have one thing that I'd like to comment on what just said. I know Misty has a comment on that too, But uh, you know, to be a law enforcement guy, you gotta have a certain makeup, you know. I mean, you gotta want to do it. It's like his little kids, you know. I want to be a cowboy. I want to be a policeman. I want to be there, you know. I mean it's like and a lot of these guys end up doing it, you know. Uh, So our society is kind of geared to where we can fill all spaces. You know, there's so but to be a cop, I don't know what it is, but to be an undercover guy it would be really interesting to see what the makeup is of these undercover guys. I would think adrenaline junkie, you know. I mean, you're stepping into a high every day. Every day when you wake up, You're just going to you know, I can die to day, you know. I mean, so somehow you come like that, I would have to absolutely say that that's right and to the point that you sacrifice everything else, Yeah, very much so. And it was it was all encompassing. I missed funerals, I missed visitations because somebody called and I had to go, and when I didn't have to, but I wanted to, and I didn't want to go because I didn't want to be with my family. I wanted to go because there was somebody else to catch and I needed and I thought that I needed to go do that, and it it all, it all came full circle to me one morning. It was on a Saturday, and I had taken um my son to eat breakfast. We're gonna eat breakfast a little cafe and we were sitting there eating and he was know. During this time, my brother and I we still had had the guide service going, and we had labradors at home. This is all gonna make sense in a minute. And we were sitting at the table eating breakfast, and I was facing the door, obviously, and my son was backwards to the door, and he's five or six years old. And a truck goes by that had a yellow lab and a black lab in it, and I said, Hunter, there goes a truck with two labs in it, and without turning around, he looked at me and said, myth labs. Oh, And that was the That was a pretty hard thing to but that was his first thought. And we had labradors at home, and his first thought because that's all he heard me talk about, you know, and you know where's Daddy at He's working a myth lab. You know, at that time there was only four or five of the south of Little Rock that were myth lab certified to take down myth labs. And you had had these this DA training and we went to Quantico and had all his training to be able to dismantle them because they were so hazardous and we were averaging, you know, sometimes five or six a month, and we were going everywhere and it was just a real time consuming thing. And it was at the height of the myth and fed a mean plague, and you know in Arkansas and this part of the country. So I mean that was he should that should have never been his first thought, and that was his first thought. So it came pretty well full circle there. And yet I still did it for another six or seven years before I could drive to be successful at what you were doing. It was it sounds like it might be more than the adrenaline high, the addiction. You know, I got a had a I enjoy testifying in court. I enjoyed a challenge. I loved it when they wouldn't. I love going to court because I wanted people to know what we were doing and what these folks were doing, and it was a challenge to me and I never you know, there were a lot of officers that didn't like defense attorneys. I absolutely love them, and I'd like, man, do your job. If you can get me, if you can beat me, beat me. I never lost because I put so much into it, and I wasn't by myself, our whole crew, we never lost a case it went to court because we knew the challenges and stuff that they were looking for, and that was it was vital important to me to go beyond what we needed to do to ensure that when we laid it out there on a piece of paper, if they had any sense, they would say, look, there's no yeah, we're not gonna go to court. Another reason I like testifying in court. It was the only time that I knew in a room that I was sitting in that when I was talking, everybody was listening to me. I had a lot of similarities there between you undercover guys in in War heat Rose. I mean, you know, you've got a family at home, but you're you want to go back to Afghanistan, and I mean you want to be a sniper. You know, you got you got this, You're focused, so uh, you know a lot of kutos of these guys. I mean it's just it's pretty cool what they're doing and the sacrifices and in the benefit that comes from it for our society. Yeah, Brett, what stood out to you as a favorite part being being in knowing that game, Like, was there a party just that you enjoyed. I knew what he was gonna say when you asked him was it worth it? M because it wasn't worth it to me either at the time. It was, But when you asked him, and he said, no, it's it wasn't. But that that's what stood out the most to me. A lot. There was a lot of similarities. He was telling stories and all the stuff that he talked about gathering in cases and making the case and being with those folks and having to be in the places that he was. You know the thing, uh, it stood out about the cover almost being blown. Yeah, that happened. That happened. We had been invited by a a law enforcement or sheriff of a county in South Arkansas that was suspect to us to begin with, but he he had invited us to come work on a problem of meth and fetamine ring down there in that area. And we went down there, but we were didn't tell him we were coming. And we went in this this bar that uh, and we were there was three of us in there working, and of course he had no clue that we were down there, correct. And who do we see walking the door where there an iron and a half walks in and walks behind the bar, fixes itself a drink and then walks back out. And everybody in there was in the athan fhetamine trade. M do you think he was on the inside of it. I didn't say that he's no longer alive. He's no, he was no longer a sheriff shortly after that. But we'll call it. We'll call him target number three. All he had to do was to look where he was at, because he knew all of us. All he had to done was looked at where we were sitting, because we, I mean we were all looking at each other, like, what's what's going on? You know? I was because there's no windows in that place, and I was looking to crawl that one because that could have ruined a whole bunch of stuff. But luckily it didn't. He never looked at us, He didn't see us, never knew we were there. But so I can I empathize with that. I don't know what he's how that that feels. I also know how it feels. He wouldn't. I'm very proud of the stuff that I did, but I wouldn't do it again. And even though I miss it, I wouldn't do it any more. You're safe, Yeah, Dad? What do you say? The chances are that brand is actually an UNDERCOVERA But I think it's real high. I think him stripped. No, I don't want him to do. That's what I'm saying. Has Clay talked about that yet? That's on the third episode. I just told you all about that. Um miss Nokem, what stood out to you? What was your favorite part? Well, I thought, I mean it really is. I do. I don't like getting in on the dark side of people's inner conscious but I do enjoy like crime and law and order and chose, you know, I enjoy what I don't enjoy, you know, criminal activity. But but like like Josh was saying, the psychology of what he was doing, I don't think I could do it. I don't think I really don't think. We were talking to of our daughters last night. I was telling her a story about a situation that I got in where someone was asking me questions and I knew to answer them would actually reveal some information about a different person that would diminish their reputation in the eyes of the person I was talking to. So I didn't answer fully. I answered honestly, but I didn't answer fully. I didn't tell the whole story, and and I said when I walked away, I kind of felt sick because I felt like I had lied to them, even though I didn't lie. I teld you know, I was like really careful to tell the truth. But I think I would be a hot mess in a situation where I was every single day having to portray myself differently than like who I I would just be so incredibly difficult. I thought it was crazy, all the close calls he came to, like when he was talking about the people overhearing from the other room, the guys, Yes, that is crazy. And that's just the ones that he knew about, right, Oh, and that's just the ones on this case. Right. This was a small part of his full career. Who knows, you know how many times I walk around a corner and somebody walked out of store or something. You know that, Hey, I know that guy. Well, I was just thinking about like the idea of the poach coach. Like I'm a pretty curious person, and I can't imagine sitting in the back of the van and not just like looking around. You know, it's a cool thing, and you're just like, yeah, like, I feel like there are so many inox. Have you ever looked at my console and looked at all that stuff? Just there's more stuff in my console? You could you could live for six years, like if you died, like in a ten thousand years, if they find your truck console, they can piece together your whole live Yeah. Yeah, And Isaac's been going through it while I was in the gas station. I'm formulating an anthropological sort of theory. This must have been a religious ceremony here. No, but just like it's a turkey vest, like he had a full lawn recorder in that, like all it takes this one buddy to be like, what are you carrying there? Boom over? Well, And that's what the third episode a lot is about, because so I told these stories, like I told the whole story of Operation Red Button Part two. The first episode was kind of an overview of just under undercover work in general, but there was so many small stories that were still left that were just intriguing all on their own, that the third episode is going to be a lot of just like real unique, you know, clipped out stories of when wild stuff happened and he got out of stuff because that's what's so interesting to me. And he was just he was It takes a lot of confidence. And Artist said that, and and after I interviewed him, and after I've done spent so much time on this. I see what he means, Like you can't hesitate when when someone does something, you just have to react, and most people will bow to confidence. I mean unfortunately or fortunately I don't know. But like if if you say you're Art Steward, I know you. You were my archery coach back at that that college and he's just like, you got me mixed up with somebody? Was that guy good looking and rich? And he's like, well he was good looking, it wasn't rich. Well it wasn't me because I'm good looking and rich. I mean, just just not miss a beat, just like this is who I am. Yeah, all the good an arcs I've ever worked with all head sense as of humor, and we're just in the gift of gab. Yeah, you can just go with the flow, talk your way through anything kind of like that would be though, that to constantly deceive people, I think would be such a difficult, a difficult thing, like to go back to your family and to have a habit of deceiving people all day long and then have to go back to your family and be hard. Have you ever done this? Uh? I'll often pick up a word or phrase in my vocabulary ironically, Like I heard somebody call somebody guy one time, and I felt like it was the most disingenuous thing I've ever heard, Like, yeah, no problem, guy, and I'm like, that sounds weird. So I started would say, well it is now because I started saying it ironically, and then at some point in time I just woke up and realized that it had crept into my lexicon. And now I say guy and I think in the same way. In the same way, you have these guys who like creep into this lifestyle and then they wake up some day and they're like, am I bob am I? You know, like, I don't know that would be a weird experience because it's not a a there's not like a turning point. It's just a series of decisions and a series of experiences. And then all of a sudden you're like, man, I'm in pretty deep. I've been doing this for fifteen months. Yeah, am I into poaching? Now? Am I a poacher? Now? I want to come clean about an actual fear I have. I have a fear that I'll also want to hear what you think Elon Musk could should Twitter go ahead, We'll talk about that at the end. That's a spoiler alert. Missy has some great advice for Elon Musk, so he'll hear it. I have a major fear that one day I will be called on to do undercover work. This is like, actually has come up in my my thought life a lot, like what if I'm called on to do undercover work and I have to break the law to do it, Like if the US government flies a chopper in here in the dark exactly knocks on our door, and the like rambo, what if they have what if they have like an activation word like like pineapple, and like all of a sudden you turn into some different Okay, carry on. My concern is and every time I hear Britt talk about his undercover work, I'm always concerned that this is going to happen to him as well, that I will be asked to do illegal things but never tell anyone, and there's only one person that knows and exactly, and there's only one person that knows, and that person is either dirty or it gets killed, and so no one knows that I'm actually innocent, that I'm just following orders. This is a really specific fear. It is it is it's it's because I think I've I've seen too many talk about this. So that movie about this, Uh, we talked about it. We talked about it. Yeah, yeah, Yeah, it's a very specific fear because it has shown up in movies and what happens if that person like their families like, wait, you've lived this double life and you're like, no, actually, I didn't live this double life when I was with you. I was honest. And when it's just interesting, like what happens, well urt RT. And this wasn't on the podcast. It was just too much. But one time r T was with the guys in Ohio and they planned to spur the moment trip way deep into West Virginia and he wasn't supposed to cross state lines or that wasn't a part of the plan because you're going into another jurisdiction all this. And he calls his boss and it's like, hey, they want to go to West Virginia and I kind of I have to go with him. And he was like okay, and and and so only the boss was in RT were the only ones who knew he was over there, and and he said it was a it was kind of a it was more to the story. But it was an unnerving thing to be in West Virginia and he didn't even know where it was. Um, this is the exact scenario that I would be afraid. And if his boss is dirty or dies, he's tub yes, if he gets a restid West Virginia. Well, I mean, in all fairness, there are any number of ways that he could be in trouble, not just actually was surprised at how much he said that he was concerned about the legal ramifications of what he was doing. The murder plot, well, yeah, the murder plot, but but just in general, like he was constantly walking the line of him going him getting in trouble for what he was doing. Like he like hasn't been on the podcast yet about when they robbed the gas station. M h yeah, and and he needed to video that and declare that he didn't know that that was going to happen because if it went to court, they might say this guy's critically put him in jail. So like, because I asked him, I said, is there legal ramifications for you? And he said, oh, every day, he said, I had to really watch myself everything I did to make sure so you know, there's a lot at risk. There's a psychological study that where they they basically told people to do something mean, I mean, this is the real short version of it, you know what I'm talking about. And and they found that people were willing to go very far doing terrible things as long as someone in charge told him to do it. The study was that they had they were told they were uh being paid to do a study. They thought they were not the subject. They thought they were just participating in it, and the subject was answering questions and every time they got a question wrong, they had to administer a shock. Every time they got it wrong, it would go up and to the point that's what they were told. That what they were told, to the point where the fake subject is complaining of like heart pain or like please stop, I don't want to do this anymore. And and the test they just came to it, yeah, kept nailing it, and they found that people were as long as they felt authorized, and that they were willing to go a lot further than than what you would be comfortable with. I'd like to read you to you guys a email that I got and I'm not gonna say the name, so it's it's gonna be fun. But I got this email. I shared this with RT and he he was really thrilled about this. But this guy says, I was recently listening to episode seventy eight of the Bargaryse podcast Secret Agent Man, and found myself overwhelmed with emotion and even moved to tears. My father is under is a retired undercover narcotics agent. For nearly the first half of my life, I hardly saw him and certainly didn't know him. I grew up feeling fatherless all the while. My father was home most nights and even took me to school in the morning, but that was the extent of our relationship. I knew of his career and idolized him for for it, making up that he was a superhero and his duty was more important than my life. Coming of age, I soon began to resent in neglect, resent his neglect and lack of relationship, And when when he retired, he came home and pretended as if he had always been home, and my resentment grew you with me. Almost two decades later, after years of therapy, I've learned to accept him and no he did the best he could with no malice des the abandonment I felt. Coming back to Clay's interview with RT, I found myself in tears listening to ARTI's interpersonal struggle with coming to terms with his double life, even lamenting if given the choice, he wouldn't take make the same decision. This prompted me to ask my own father about his experience, something that's borderline taboo. And my family and he he shares what he wants to, but we don't ask questions unprompted. Asking him if he struggled with coming home after being an undercover agent took an immense amount of courage. His response was similar to urt s, and we were able to have the most honest conversation we've ever had. For the first time, he accepted his life was his work and not us, and he wasn't around for me and my siblings. He accepted how difficult he was to live with and how hard it was to live a double life, similar to Artie's experience mentioned in the interview. At the end of the conversation, I was able to tell him with all honesty how proud I was to be his son, something I've never expressed nor felt until very recent I never expected the hunting podcast would mend a lifelong wound I've carried for over thirty years. Wow, man, that's a big deal. Yeah, I thought so, really really great, great feedback. Interesting. You know, sometimes sometimes people have a calling that's um so important. You know that it that the bad that it creates. You know, they've off said it, you know. Uh so you know, where would we be without these undercover guys. You know, it's pretty important that we've got people that have the courage to do that. So anyway, um sacrifice to the family at times. Yeah, yeah, everything, everything does come with a cost. I mean, but you know, the thing about it is is that you could have any kind of job and you know, same thing. It happens all the time, you know, if you're a workaholic, same thing. Yeah, but the motive is different, you know, the undercover guys helping our society, the workaholics helping its checking a camp. Isaac, did you have a favorite part? I didn't specifically ask you yet what stood out to you? Man? I think I think I said the big things the idea of like just the happenstance of how many times he could have been found out and wasn't, And then the idea of just morphing into someone else. That's I think kind of an insidious and scary concept. And then like what does it look like to detox from that, Like when you're done, Like, how do you like remember the old RT? I think that's pretty fascinating. Um. I was struck in this by how cavalier and quick to trust the targets were. Yeah. Um, I just feel like I would be really cag if I was like operating in this large criminal activity and then like you meet a new guy and you're like, what are you doing Thursday? But it's that I can see how that would seem that way. I think there's a way to think about it though, that these guys probably didn't think what they were doing was that bad. Probably that's what that's what we learned. We talked about Louis Dell and Charlie from everybody, it's like it just in there, in that part of the world, and that time it was just like this really wasn't that big of a deal. That's what they thought. And then and then at that time there weren't undercover agents. Yeah, I mean that in Ohio, so like this was like what years was it? Nine? And ninety six. Because when all this went down, Misty, do you uh so everybody knows that Elon Musk has bought Twitter. Misty, what what advice would you have for him? Missy? How many people do you think you've hired in your lifetime? How many people have I hired? I mean right now I have people. Misty knows what it's like to run a big company, Fire Global Company, know this that what's the problem here is that Clay and I are driving to Chep's basketball game, and just the two of us in the car, I just started spouting out what I you know, what I feel like Elon Musk is doing. And I have a little mercy towards him because he reminds me a lot of some of my students. Was a principal for nine years of our Our school had at that time se male population. That's a big practically a boys school, and it wasn't designed to be that way, but that that's what we got. And the way Elon Musk is behaving right now reminds me a little bit of a lot of boys who have been sent to my office. And I was just telling him Clay, like I kind of I have the same field for Elon Musk that I have for the boys that get sent to my office, like you know you you see of his income, of Twitter's income is dependent on advertising dollars, and he's kind of self destructing right now where all of that money is being pulled. And there's this part of Elon must it's like, hey, guys, don't leave, you could trust me. He writes this letter to all that donors saying, give me a chance, let me prove to you. But then the other part of Elon Musk is like, has this crowd of people cheering for him, and he's like I kind of like that attention, and so he like impulsively does things to respond on to that crowd, and it's it's just total self destruction. So what I want to tell him is, Elon, lock yourself in a room, get a couple of advisors that you really trust. Slow this down. Let's slow this down a little bit. And they're losing four million dollars a day. What he said, it's like, don't say the company's going bankrupt, don't just maybe don't be don't get on Twitter right now. It's I don't have really deep I don't have deep things. It's just just just kind of a general feeling of like, ah, buddy, yeah, just come on, guy, you got this because, like you see, he kind of wants to be When I when I acquired Bare Hunting Magazine in the Midsummer point third team, I'll never forget the same thing. I was advised change a thing for at least a year, like, don't even let people know hands, Yes, Clyde Nukele, did you keep it that way for a year? Pretty much? He did? He did. I had I had an editor that was working that stayed on the magazine for two years. He was doing a job that I actually did his job, but he was getting the credit for just like I kept his face into magazine. I pretty much kept things the same. That's what I would if Ellen were here, which you know, he might be on the Burglary's Render one day. Um Bill Clinton too, I want Bill Clinton, Elon Musk, Gary nuclem Uh, who else? Who else could be in there? I have advice for all these people. Please include me on this room. I mean I would need all of you. We'd have to get three more mikes. Can you work that down? I said, I'll just sit out, just take pictures out of I have real strong feelings about Ellen, and I would say, let the guy do whatever he thinks is right. I mean, you look at his net worth. Have you ever looked at his net work? Do you see how much it's declined end in the last couple week. Hey, he's taking that risk in the end, he'll get it back. Misty said that he has uh and maybe other people have said I just heard Misty said. I get most of my information from life from Misty. It's true. I think I told him not to change anything about h Ellen has a like like Alex Hanald who climbs free climbs, and he has this incredible ability to deal with danger, like an unusual amount lack of ability to have fear risk averse risk. No, no, no, it's the opposite. It's Elon Musk. She like, Hey, if he doesn't go south, it's no big deal. It's it's really like a phenomenon on teenage boys where they have risk taking behavior that they don't have the the ability to. They don't have developed a fully developed prefrontal cortex, and so they and not just teenage. It should be good by twenty one, but I don't know. He might have done some things. You know, the brain is is a dynamic thing, and so people take they take risk without calculating the cost. It's it's why a lot of people end up just aging out of out of crime and drug use because they get that prefrontal cortex. It's an amazing thing. It helps you kind of calculate risk. So I just think his and that's been successful for him, Like that's that has been a massive point of success for him. So he takes bigger and bigger risk. The problem is at some point in Gosh, I hope everything's okay with Alex Handld too, because I kind of like him. At some point Clinton, Alex Handld, Elon Musk, Alex Handld is gonna die from climbing. It makes me so nervous that one day he's going to take a risk that he can't. It's it's like he's going to take the one just too far. Yeah, But I think the people like that, and this may pour it over to Elon Musk as well. It's like I can't not. Yeah, Like there's something inside of me that drives me to do this. But when you look at all and it's it's to be nipp icky. It's free soloing. Um, the free climbing. Free climbing is like there's aid climbing, which was like traditional alpinism, where are you're using all the gear to get out free climb. Free climbing is when you just climb. You know you can use safety gear, but you use your body to get up the rock. And then free soloing is no safety gear climbing climbing. I just think that it's it's like a risk like these guys who take these big risks can be very successful and then and though that risk taking behavior, it's We had a separate conversation that I won't quote here, but where I was I was saying like sometimes sometimes life rewards those risk takers huge and and he has been rewarded to hugely, and it's clear he's there's no way he could do what he's doing. He really very much reminds me of some students I've had in my in my office who are brilliant, who have a very sharp minds. Emerald in South Africa reminds me a lot of when I bought Izzie off Craigslist. It was a big gamble fired big took everything I had cut to me. He said I was crazy but paid off big and look at you now, yeah, like I mean, now, hey, Dad, tell us about I meant to do this right at the beginning. This is the most exciting thing. So you were a little bit younger than Bill Clinton. How much younger? Two years? So he was a sophomore. When he was a senior, he went to Hot Springs High Right, My sister graduated with him. So Sandy, she was in the class with him. Over the years, has gone to high school reunions. Even when he was right, he would invite his high school senior class too. The Governor's mansion than the d C. When he had a big event, he invited his senior class to come. Yeah. So you what do you remember about Clinton in high school? Well, you know, in high schoo cool. It's it's uh, it's it's really interesting to me to look at high school because it's all like peer groups. Everybody's developing inside and you're looking at the cool guys, the hoods, you know, different groups of people, and he he had if you're my major, we had we had hoodlums in hoods. Yeah, probably use that term when he when he was talking about Louis Dell Up on the sky left that a couple of hoodlums coming. These guys. These guys smoked, you know in my so anyway, Bill was. I didn't know Bill. I mean, you know, we would speak maybe in the hallway. Hello, we're like his friends. No, no, no, not even close. He wasn't my kind of guy. Man. He was too smart. I mean he played you know, he playing the band. He was just a neat guy, dressed neat. Everybody liked him. He went to church. Uh, you know, he was just he wouldn't into an elite group of your high school, but you know he he was. He was just kind of a neat guy to be so smart, you know, and you would have wrecked you. You really think you would have recognized that even if he hadn't become president. Yeah, yeah, if you just said, how you remember Bill Clinton being a successful state farm agent. I never thought much about yea, really, I mean when did he start coming into Arkansas politics? And you're like, hey, I went to HH school that yeah, lieutenant governor. Probably in the seventies. So once you graduate high school sixty so ten years later you're like Bill Clinton. Yeah, yeah, you know, which wasn't surprising. He didn't surprise me. Governor didn't surprise me. Yeah, President surprised me. Do you know. I I remember when he was running, so I would have been like twelve or thirteen years old, and I remember walking out of the house with you. You were taking us to school, and you were dressed up in your suit and tide going to the bank, and I just I just remembered the moment when you you laughed and you said you said, old Bill Clinton is probably gonna be president. Like I could just tell you were you were like excited and kind of surprised, and and I'll never forget that for some reason, because I was like, huh, Bill Clinton's gonna be president. I guess that's a big deal. And uh and slick slick Willie is that what? Yeah, slick Willie, did you ever see him? Not in hele h No, No, But you know what, I don't. I don't that they had it probably isn't true, but I mean, you know, it could have gone either way. But well, if I something happens to me in the next couple of weeks, it's either some of it was either target number one or two, heard this podcast or the Clinton's yep, but um, nice guy in high school. Yeah, very nice guy, very intelligent. And then what I said about you, uh, staying clean and sober. True story, true story, unless you want to come out now. No, I'm not coming out. I mean I was a good dad and trying to that was all a lie man. No, No, it was kind of unusual too, because when I when I moved to this small town that I live in now, a lot of the guys my age didn't didn't drink and do crazy stuff in high school. And I thought, what I mean, in Hot Springs it was just like, you know, it was you know, it was different. It was very different in Hot SPS like and that would have been in our world, a big city, yeah, Hot Spring, Yeah yeah, which would have been a town like thirty thousand, which was like a metropolis. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, Billy Billy boy, and then uh, your mother knew his mother, and we're kind of lifelong acquaintances in the town that in Springs. Is that about right? Probably? I mean, she she knew, she knew. I don't know how close they were. Yeah, I wish you didn't talk. I remember I remember Emmeline saying that she I mean, I remember her telling stories of seeing ms Clinton like in town and them talking them like you know, and and probably she was highlighting that because at the time, you know, he was president. So but yeah, interesting. And my sister, Um, she's a pretty good looking girl. I would I'd call her before she had take off the DC. Be careful while you're up there. Uh my goodness. M hmm. You can. You can cut this true story. It's a nerue story. Well you never know. You never know. We were in Washington, d C. Yesterday. We were missing and I were in Washington, d C. Yesterday. You heard it here. First, he's about to announce his candidacy for office. Somebody that saw that g Q video that I did. People wouldn't notice the g Q video, but the breakdown, the breakdown videos that you've been seeing on meat Eator Meetators Instagram is a spoof off of GQ doing a breakdown of movies and stuff. And somebody said when they saw me with a like a suit on, that they thought I was running for a governor or, you know, they thought I was running for political office. And so, but no, that's not true. I have one other thought for you. Close this thing down. I didn't like it. Uh, under your under Louis Dill and Charlie and I can't remember how it worked in but I didn't like it that the guy couldn't kill a turkey. I mean, you're like going, Okay, I'm gonna send you out to where you can possibly get killed, but you can't kill a turkey. They can kill you, but you can't kill a turkey. And I'm going, you know, I think there's something wrong with that. I mean, you wouldn't want to just say, go kill all the birds in the world, but I mean, you know, shoot the bird so well. I don't like that. I think he had They had the liberty to be able to do that, but I think just the better part of discretion and for building the case. Like if they showed up in the court and they said target number one killed fifty and I killed forty nine, you know, saggeration, no, no, no, and I'm the undercover agent. So I think I think they felt the freedom too, but they just tried not to. But is that true, Brent, That's correct? You know that that was one of the biggest challenge you always think about the challenges is having an alter alternative, uh no, identity and life and everything but they didn't have any rules and we did that. That was the hard part. Yeah, I mean him shooting a twenty two so he could miss. I'm like going, hey man, you got the wrong guy. Go get Misty to go undercover doing this. So anyway, very good? Ye is that because I can't shoot another thing. I was real curious about the sentences. I mean, that's that intrigues me. You know, Okay, this guy got six months, this guy got six years. They didn't go to jail. If you want to hear about that, good luck, because there is nothing about this on the end of I looked it up, and you know what I found was Bear Grease Surrender is about I mean the Bear Grease podcast was like bam bam bam bambat Operation Red Buttons. Yeah. I spent I spent an hour looking for it. I finally found one listing on eBay of a September issue of Turkey Call. It was just a title and it had every article listed and one of the article titles was Operation Redbud And there was no photos, there was none, nothing online. And I was like, I've got a buddy who is big into the history of the n WTF Nathaniel Maddox, the guy that I was like, hey, man, do you have the September issue of the Turkey Call? And he's like, yeah, I got this right here on the back of my toilet. So he went down to his office yesterday or the next day and took pictures of the one article. So in the bust they called the editor for the Turkey Call up to Ohio that day of flew up there because the n WTF had provided a ton of money to the Ohio tipline, which is how this whole thing got started. So the NWTF was helping to fund the tip line that was like, hey, so and so was killing whatever and they get a reward from the n w TF. So the editor was actually there at the busts and wrote an article on it. Interesting, none of this is online. Yeah, yeah, So I tasked Isaac because what I wanted to do at the end of the podcast was to go target number one. Spent you know, so much time in jail and how to do this and lost is this? And sadly, I'm afraid we'd be a little disappointed if we knew what. I think that's the reason why, or partially I bet they got off. I don't know, there's a lot I've heard. I have heard people like off the record, and I can't even remember exactly who told me this. But when you're when you're a the judge and you hear a wildlife case, sometimes it doesn't translate too as significant. Achromemost like, yeah, but that's not a real crime. And I'm not saying it's a judge's fault, but I'm just saying the system is not geared to just fry people for wildlife crimes. And uh and you know, to those of us on this side of it that love wildlife wanted, like are playing this game, this conservation game, Like we see how serious it is. But when they're the next guy is a guy that murdered somebody, it's like it's a little bit you know, I kind of agree with that, but you know, you you need your law strong enough to stop other people from participating and where And it's like, how do you price your product? Well, price it as high as you can until it quits selling, and back off a little bit, you know. So when Louis Dell and Charlie and Stony Edwards, Charlie's son told me this when Louis Dell or he's the one that brought it to my attention. When Louis Dell and Charlie were doing what they were doing back in the eighties and nineties, literally it was like a misdemeanor ticket, like if you killed the turkey, got caught killing turkey, which they did a couple of times, pay a three fine, go to the courthouse, pay the money, go back and kill another one. You know. Charlie said, well, it's cost me about forty cents a bird because he got caught one time, but all the ones he killed, he divided the amount of birds he'd killed to the ticket, and so it literally was like a game. It wasn't the punishment today, it's not like that they are taking vehicles. And RT did say that one of the guys had his vehicle taken away, put a lean on his house till the fines were paid. You know, there was some significant stuff. But yeah, that's the yeah, because it's basically he risked his life. Yeah, I mean that that he risked his life forty yeah. Yeah, well, you know, in the end, you know what I want to say is that, you know, we're all massively supportive of law enforcement. What these guys are doing. That's sacrifice that there that they're that they're given to to protect our wildlife and our right to hunt and are basically the integrity of the whole system. So when you go out and don't commit a crime and have a good hunt and take an animal, that is as much a part of the whole system is our t going undercover and busting these guys. And you know, it's like to me, it's like one big thing. We gotta have it. So thanks Print for being after Clay all these years busted. Well, it's great to have the Render crew back together. Pleasure to speak with you all of you. Um hey met either Metior Black Friday sales almost done. Hey, we haven't addressed that. It's almost Thanksgiving. People are listening to this on the day that comes out. Tomorrow's Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving, Enjoy your family, be thankful. Andy Brown says, Thanksgiving Day, he's a great day to hunt always. It's the opener for the South Sentner Ducks in Missouri. Say that again, it's the opener for the South Swner Ducks Missouri. Okay, Hey, yesterday afternoon would have been a good day to hunt. I saw more deer driving from the highways. Let me to my house. At deer everywhere. It was a good day to hunt. He killed one yesterday. I killed the duck yesterday. And one of my uh good friends from Rock I visited with him this week and he's a great hunter, and uh, he said, he talked about you. He said, yeah, I'd like to make clay sometime. And he said, by the way, Monday, I forget what day this was, he said, is the red moon. He said that should be the best day of the old year to hunt, the red moon, Monday or Tuesday of this last week blood moon. Yeah, yeah, it was pretty too. It was. It was pretty amazing. The kids and I went out and looked at it and we had a really good view of it, and it was it was beautiful. Yeah, it's snow ridiculous talking about yeah tonight so much. Thank you for listening to the Burgaris Podcast.

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