00:00:14 Speaker 1: My name is Clay Nukelem and this is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called The Bear Grease Render where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f HF Gear, American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. I think fly fishing is really pretty to watch. Fly fishing is captivating. You guys are missing out. It is really pretty, Like I feel like you're it's beautiful because I can't tell you how many times I've heard you say. You know what I'm really drawn to is people have a passion for something. I have an idea entity and I talk about fly fishing all the time on this show, and you just blow over it like it's not even a wrong passion. You're attracted to people have passion. It's really cute when people like fly fishing. I think it's really cute. Whatever. That's why people say they can't do it. Josh no, no, no, Josh no. I I respect you're passionate for fly fishing. Absolutely. Does that mean that I want to talk about it all the time. I want to hear you talking about it. Let you talk about fly fishing as much as you want in my car driving on. What would you say about fly fishing? Would just say you had the floor? Yes, what would you say? I would talk about? First of all, the places that fly fishing takes you is one of the things that I like about it. I like that the beautiful locations, environments that you get to. One of the things that I love about fly fishing is, especially trout fishing, is being in cold water when it's a hundred degrees and you're standing and forty eight degree water. It's like you're tasting the extremes at one time. It's amazing. It's amazing. And then watching i mean ideally a nice dry fly cast where it lands out there so delicately, and then seeing a monster brown trout just go up there and slurp that thing in there, and you react and set the hook and that fish just goes crazy. But you're usually fishing fighting that fish on a very fine tackle, so you know, the fights on for at least ten minutes. Really can be with a big one. I mean, it's a it's a it's a compelling. Yeah, how much more time you can have the whole podcast. Welcome to the base podcast, Welcome to the Beargrease Podcast. You just heard the poetic voice of Josh Lambridge, filmmaker. Never been accused of that. Good have you? Thank you, thank you, thank you. Brent Reeves always looking sharp? These are good? Oh he cut his paint. He cut not with that new media to not Oh did you really? Yeah? I think is it is sharp right there? Just barely tested, just like a like a like a draft life floating across the White River. If it would hit it any harder, it would Okay, my lad, But thanks sharp, I'll be darn to your left. Isaac Neilucer, assistant producer of I, commented on Isaac's the tire when he walked down. I was really proud of him. It really looks like a redneck I just got. I got so ashamed and embarrassed of no the tattoos I had to cover on. I scheduled the laser tattoo remove tattoos, just just to paint a picture. I got some nice boot cut jeans on a pair of cowboy boots. Yeah. And how would you describe your shirt? Camo hat um? This is like a it's vague, it's kind of vague Hawaiian. That's good Willie Nelson kind of like red neck, kind of hippie. Yeah yeah. And then Isaac's got hair down to his navel. To Isaac's left, you don't have to exaggerate. To Isaac's left, my lovely wife, Missy Newcomb Hello, Missy, thank you for joining us. Thanks so much, Clay, it's so great to be It's really a big deal. I don't know if y'all realize what a big deal this misty. This is a very busy woman. I mean, she's like scheduling these things in like negotiating with other people about this time. Do you have her people, your people, call her people. I can't. I don't even talk to her. I talked to her people. But it's like, what's great is we live in this like isolated world of social media where you're a big deal, right and she's your wife, but like in the real world where things actually happened, you're Missy Newcombs. We were trying to film at what context you're making and there's people knocking on the door, and play's looking at the wing. There's a delivery truck out here. I wonder what that is. They leave we start filming again. Isaac's like, there comes another truck, another guy, there's a there's a bigger delivery truck places. We gotta take a break. I gotta missy. I don't know what's going on here. It turns out there was a wedding. The uh so, missy, thank you for taking time about your schedule. And then Gary Knucom, whose schedule is just wide open since about and good to have you dad, thank you, thanks for coming up. Yeah, Gary Nucom is the most prepper, preppy dressed of us. All it looks like he's going golfing. I mean, it's you know, a little embarrassing, but it's all right, uh that he's going golfing all the I'm kidding. He's a renaissance man. Yeah, so great man. And then who else that's that's us because it's a fly fishing. Yeah, that was just like a little bonus. We're going to cut that out, cut out circle, Josh in case, Josh Lambert, Hey, I was in the Pacific Northwest this last week and people were they started talking about the land bridge that people walked like, you know that they said, you know, they theorized that the first anyway, and I was like, oh, I know all about the land Bridge. My friends mustache looks like do you know that? I was born in the Pacific Northwest. Also, I knew you had some ties there. I actually was trying to figure that out of Washington almost accidentally. You're raised in Michigan, which you are, So I assume you're of European descent just based upon what I know about you. Did your family come over the land Bridge? Just went backwards patterns and migration of I actually had a shattering life moment a couple of months ago. My mom got suckered into one of those twenty three and me kind of things that my German heritage came in through Canada, really immigrated to Canada and then moved into Michigan. Those We've got some pretty fun family stories surrounding Tree and Me. I mean really, it's it's pretty pretty fun. Not so like, uh steal the vibe of having fun away. But Josh and I are really good friends and have been for decades. Josh, tell them tell him a little bit about your dad. So my mom and dad got married in nineteen and seventy five, and my dad was nineteen my mom was twenty two. And uh, just a couple of months after my parents got married. They were very happily married. My dad had a framing crew and he'd come home and he'd say, man, I'm really tired. And this was in Michigan, and uh he'd come home fall asleep in the bathtub. I mean just at nineteen twenty years old. Well, he went to the doctor and found out. Your mom was like, what's yeah, what's what's going on? Seems like, you know, you're in the prime of your life. They did did some blood work and found out that he had some very like extremely low hemoglobin levels. Come to find out, he had a very rare disease called a plastic anemia and the only cure was a bone marrow transplant, which was there were two research centers in the United States that we're doing research on bone marrowge transplants, one of which was in Seattle. And so my parents actually they called and said, if you want a bone arrow transplant, be here on Monday. And it was a Friday. So my parents literally packed up in two days and moved to Seattle. And uh, my dad had experimental chemotherapy and a bone arrow trans transplant. His sister was a donor and uh, right after his his I was born while they were there. Three weeks later we left and went back to Michigan and uh my dad got home and one of the things he loved to do was water ski and uh, he just begged my mom. He said, man, I feel really good. I really want to go water skin and she said, I don't want you to eat. So he's twenty years old. He decided to do it. Catches a cold. What a plastic in emia does is it it destroys your you. You you can't produce white blood cells anymore, so you have a very compromised I mean since system. And uh, he caught a cold. It turned in pneumonia. Um ended up in the hospital. The doctor said the family needs to come down here and say you're goodbyes. A couple of days later, he's better and uh he he uh seemed to make a rebound there. A couple of weeks later, he got sick, turned to pneumonia. Same scenario, come down, say you're goodbyes. He's not gonna make it. And uh, my mom, actually I found some going through some old stuff from my dad. I actually found a journal with my mom's and my mom prayed and she said, Lord, by my anniversary, make me a widow or make me a wife. Either heal him or take him, because this up and down is too much for me. And he actually passed away four days before their first anniversary. And uh So I was raised by a single mom till I was almost twelve and h but I tell you what I have, Treuman. We've talked about my mom on this podcast before. She's an incredible woman, strong, determined, hard working. I learned an incredible work ethic from my mom, the hostess with the mostess, and uh man, it's it's shaped who I am to this day. And I'm real, I'm real grateful for for what my mom invested in me as a child. Awesome. I've always loved that story. You know, I was really impacted. And I don't want to jump ahead too fast, but I was really impacted by Mark Kenyon's story about his lucky streak, about how he killed the deer, got the job and then met us and and and got together with his wife. Tell you what, that's pretty good life. How does that connect to you? This is what you're talking about. I'm just talking about them having a having a godly woman in your life, and a good strong woman is a pretty awesome thing. Those are the things that really matter. Yeah, well, okay, now we know a little bit more about Josh and I like the fly fish and he likes the fly fish. It turns out this episode is all about Josh. Is it is it from me to talk about the time deb Summers saved your life? Oh? Wow? Yeah? I mean, is that taking it too far off the rails? Because she did save your life? I get a call one time, Josh and saved my life once. I don't even remember what happened, but we were the Spillmaker, Josh and Christie and I were together. Clay was, do you want me to tell how I got there? I definitely wanted you to tell this story. Okay. That's why I started to tell the story. I was hoping he would take it away from me. I was going to the Jasper out Festival. I was going to the Aspera Elk Festival and probably like Jasper, Arkansas two thousand ten or something, and I was man in a booth for the Arkansas Black Bear Association, which was an organization that I ran and everything, and man, I woke up real early, had to be over there by like seven, It's like a two or three hour drive, and just woke up real early, went over there, and on the way there, I remember where I was at. I could take you on the road there before you get to Jasper. When I looked out the window and could see this big vista, and I remember just thinking, I feel absolutely terrible. Like it was just like I just was like, I feel like I'm about to die. But I had committed to be here, and I was just like, I'm gonna go. So I went, and I get to the Jasper Elk Festival and set up my little booth, get everything set up. Yeah, and just and in in in about you know, eight eight thirty, people start showing up. I'm standing out in the middle of the road. They have the square blocked off. I'm standing out in the middle of the road talking to some friends that I knew from Russelle, Arkansas. And they're real sweet couple and they hadn't seen me in a long time. I just greeted him, just like hey, and see you guys a long time. I gave him a hug, and I'm talking to him and I just go I feel absolutely terrible. And the next thing I know is nothing. So I went down, and so Connie calls memblance and well, okay, and then and I'm with this. This is this is an important piece of the story. Connie calls me. I've never met Connie. And Connie she gets my phone and she says, she just looks for my name. So I've never met her. She calls me though, and I'm with Josh and Christie and they said, hey, that's right over there by where where dead. The story is not over yet, I know. I know. That's why I'm this. I'm trying to tell it. He and Clay they want to take him to the hospital and he won't. He doesn't want to go there like wiping me down. And I go, I come to and I go, I'm okay, I'm okay. I just just give me back to my booth. And so I stand up and they're like, whoa, you know, everybody's like grabbing me. I'm like, I'm okay, I'm okay, don't worry, it's okay. And I say, I'm just gonna walk back to the booth and sit down. And so I go to walking through this big crowd of people and I mean, just next thing, I know, I'm in an ambulance. I hit the ground again, and that is when Connie called you so okay. So that's when Connie called the two times passed out. Josh and Christie are with me. They get on the phone while I'm on the phone with them. Are they called Deb, who is about fifteen minutes away. I don't know how it happened, but in my the way I remember it. I am on the phone with Clay on the same inter interchanged. Connie gets the phone to Clay and I'm saying, Clay, let him take you to the hospital. And I'm in an ambulance. He's in an ambulance and he won't go to the hospital. And I don't know what's going on except for Clay just passed out two times, and all of a sudden, the crowd parts, like like the Red Sea and the cloud crowd parts, and Deb Summers has figured out a way to get this Josh's mom has figured out a way to get her car in the no parking zone and has gotten the entire crowd moved. In my mind, Dead picked. I don't I wasn't there, so I don't remember it, but in my mind I can hear Dead picking up, like showing up like a in like sixty seconds, showing up, parting the crowd, getting her car parked illegally, picking Clay up like like a groom would pick up his bride. That's how I happen to. Like when I got to the house, you know, it was like how far away is it from this? Probably thirty minutes When I got to the house, dead had I mean Clay was eating. He was he had like a feast in front of him and was laying velvet. It was hilarious. It was yes, the whole nine yards and that is classic dab And And to this day, what she did is they took they put me in an ambulance and they're like, sir, we're gonna take you the hospital. And I was like, I will not consent going to the hospital. I'm not going. We didn't have health and charance. Yeah. I was like, I'm not going to the hospital. And are like, sir, are you sure? Like yes, And they made me sign this paper before I got out of the ambulance. So I got out of the ambulance and I was like, I'm gonna walk to my booth. I get to my booth and sit down and everybody's like checking on me and stuff. And then Deb walks up and she doesn't even say Hi. She just goes Clay nukelem you getting my van right now? She stuck her figure out. That's what That's what I remember saying, you're getting my van right now? And I just said yes, ma'am, and I went and got in. She opened up the side door of the minivan and she had stuff in there and food and drinks, and she was like, lean that chair back and you sit there, and and so and we went to her house and just had a great afternoon. Turns out I had her lickosis tick born. It's the most common tickboard illness. And this part of Arkansas brought over by the by the working dogs from Vietnam. They got it in the jungles of the age. Newcomer, may you may have brought it back? We know, Do you have any ticks on you when you came back? No? They so all the service dogs that came in from Vietnam, most of them were channeled through Fort Chaffee, and they brought these dogs back. And if you look at a heat map of kios As, somebody will fact check me on this and they'll learn that. I'm right. If you look at a heat map of Koss in the United States of America, there there's like a like a sun spot about a hundred miles in any direction from Fort Chaffee Fort Smith, Arkansas. Yeah, and it's and it's that's what they say. That's why I was told by a veterinarian who I believe was was telling public service announcement. If you have flu like symptoms in the summer and you are outdoors a lot, you should. It took forever to get an accurate diagnosis of what was going on, and once we did it, I mean we were able to move forward. But that that was a tough summer, was I mean six it was bad. I mean like couldn't stand up without passing out type of bad sickness. They gave you antibiotics. Yeah, it's just it's just standard treatment. But pretty much Rocky Mountain spotted fever lines disease or Lecki osis and now alpha get big ones. Yeah. It's bad news, man, bad news. Uh, I had Rocky Mountains spotted fever. A guy walked in my office and and he is a friend of mine. He just started telling a story about getting a tick related disease, and how he felt. He just went on I one, two, three, four or five things happened. Then I got up, got my car, drove to the clinic, went in. I gave me this, this and this, and so I mean, like three days later, one happens, two happens, three happens. I think, okay, I'm going to the clinic. Like, not until after he told you. I mean it was just like, look bad luck, which we're gonna talk about that luck that he came into your office. Yeah, yeah, because I might light there day or two thinking, you know. And twenty five years ago, people didn't pay as much attention to tickboard illness as they do now. I think there was a time period when doctors were just like letting people die for having tickboarn illness. It's a specific it's a specific test they got a test for because my brother had it, and when he was finally diagnosed, I came in from Missouri turkey hunting one year. So man, I'm I feel like terrible, you know, I feel like I've been a by coat and crept off a cliff. Is terrible. And he says, you get summers come by, he said, and now I wish you had. He said, you sound like you got man, you need to go and they did that specific tests or enough. That's what I had was like what Gary had Rocky Mountain spotted fever and it was tetracycline for breakfast for and suffer for a week or two and then it was gone. Clay got we got a nacurate diagnosis because someone he was with and in in the woods, he was doing work with and that guy got a diagnosis and that's when we called the doctrines that is it possible that this is what he's in with And it was like game changer. But but for I don't know how long he would have And I mean it was it was really bad. You get cured with medicine or is it just I think it just down I think, you know, I think it's different for somebody because I hear about people with limes disease and that seems like a little that longer term. It was much longer term than what you had. So I think this is a good point to get into what I really wanted to talk about today, which is which is a pretty serious It was a pretty pretty unique time for the bar Grease podcast because we're going to institute a We're gonna institute something that has been my heart for a long time and I believe that this will persist through time and be really important. We're gonna institute the barg Rease Hall of Fame, usual Bargrease Hall of Fame, and I'm gonna get a plaque of some sort made, and like you know how you can make plaques that have room for more. Yeah, so you get a big plaque. And it starts off with just small things. So here's what. We've got some business, like actual business to take care of, and that is to talk about. And basically, I'm gonna pronounce who is already in the Bargrease Hall of Fame and then a bunch of oh yeah, but then we're gonna vote on someone. Okay, are y'all with me? And so I think that it is a given of who would be and I want to get your your So I'm gonna make a list of people and basically I'm gonna ask for your your yea or your nay, and they will be officially put into the Bargreas Hall of Fame. Uh, what do you call it? If you do something from before retroactive, retroactive grandfather lodge Caster and skill it right here if you don't mind. And by the way, it's called a perpetual plaque, not an everlasting plau perpetual planque Okay, thank you, Okay, let me see that bone. That's big, very okay. I would like to officially make the proposal to the group that we induct number one is just an order of importance. Nope, no, just what we've done before. So from here on out, if we have someone that's eligible, will will induct them like right after, like right when we It's a parent. Do you see what I'm saying? So I would like to nominate for induction into the Burgaras Hall of Fame. Daniel Boone, hold on, we're gonna do this in one Daniel Boone. Yeah. Can I get a Can I get a second? Another? One? Third? Okay, Daniel Boone, Warner, Glenn, Roy Clark. So it's all or none, that's right. This is all is a batch Roy Clark, James Lawrence, I mean, George mcjunkin, and Frederick Gerstalker definitely six. I'm on board, okay. So Frederick Gershaker would have been in or what all in favors, say I, all the nays say nay, It's official. Daniel Boone, W James Lawrence and Frederick Gershaker and George mcjunkin are now officially in the Burgheras Hall of Fame from here on out. How often will There's no there's no schedule. But what I want to do right now is I would lie to nominate. So this is how we'll usually do it. Point of clarification, Yes, do living inductees get a benefit like a gift certificate to Golden Corral or something they should? Okay, well, well yeah, at the next render, Okay, I would like to nominate for the Beargrease Hall of Fame orally province. I feel like there's some there's some. I feel like an inductee into the Beargrease Hall of Fame has characteristics that would be evident and seen by all, but often intangible and indescribable because it's not one thing that these men did. It is connected to character. It's connected to longevity, it's connected to connection to the land, it's connection to connected to grit. It's connect it too. Humility. You don't you don't come banging on the lodge caster and kill it. Asking to be in the Hall of fame. These men didn't ask would be distasteful. So I have to embody the values of the Bear Grease podcast. I feel like Orally Province, I mean, just the guy. He's there are in public commentary in support and it would anybody like to make a speech in support of this? Yeah, I think he embodies everything that a lot of people aspire to be. He did something great and if you'd never know unless you ask him, Yeah, and then then it was probably like pulling teeth, you know. It wasn't like he went into some big, long, elaborate story about how he killed that dear. He's just slipping along the bluff and looking down there and there he would's right. Yeah, that's a second second from Brent reads. All right, all in favor, say all opposed saying nay, what just happened? Just kidding you never recant that. Okay, Ori Lee Province is now inducted into the Burgers Hall of Fame. So now there's seven inductors here, So we'll just start from there. Okay, Yeah, we'll we'll get it written down so to dive in. There's no room in here. Yeah, we're running low in wall space. Yeah, yeah, we're running low. We'll find a place, We'll find a place. Well, I think that to start off our conversation about this podcast called the Unusual White Tail Streak of ore Lye Province, we need to we need to sing our song. So were lucky for you guys, we have an original ballad written about Orally Province that I'd like to sing. I'd like to ask Josh and Misty to accompany me on it. So I wrote this song just this week. I just felt inspired to write a song about or Province because I like the guy so much. So this is what I came up with. Mr Nucome on the banjo, Josh on the guitar, Brent Reeves on the lodge caster, and skillet with a fair poem on the eve of the Great Depression in June of ninet, I on the mountain. He was born shucking corn. Issues were a warning. His mama, Morn, became a man at age sixteen when is daddy died, the family cried and his brothers went to war or Province. Wasn't ozon man fright to meet? In the cast iron pan Love the Finland Bill Monroe Skidding Logs of Timberfall, the thunder roll in n got a good horse, no relorse, cutting cross ties thirty five cents apiece will starve a man callous's hands. But he loved the land, working in the timber. He longed for the cold days of November. Back to the chorus, everybody or province was an ooz ark man, right, damn met and the castine fan. That's right, love the fiddle and Bill Monroe skidding Lord Timberfall, the thunder Road in nineteen sixty five, the north wind blue, the storm clouds grew in the beast hunger again the bluffs, that's right, or he came a slipping when the shan rang out a great buck went to tripping, he went and got huge. They found twenty eight points that would hang a wed and ring. That's a good that's a good line. But that wouldn't be the last. When not two weeks had passed, his muzzle sang another blast. Back to the course. Everybody or it brozz wasn't thosehark man come onlazac right damn and the cast iron fan, love the fiddlin Bill Monroe skin Logs of Timberfall, the thunder Road, Laugh first, some would say it's luck, but I would say, well, shucks, he's a bloff hunting man. He saw a drop time, but shot nine times, blurred the lines, and the big buck fail. He carried eighteen points a ger and fed limestone bread and and ozark legend was far all right, all right, yeah, hey, just for the world to know. I recognize that I'm not a great singer. So but I I just the passion is just too strong to keep it all in a joyful note. Just I just gotta let her go. So yeah, the Ballad of an ozark Man, there's some good lyrics, and it tells the story, tells the story. It should tell the story. What promise was an ozark Man. They're meeting the cast iron pan a good songs should play a little movie and you hit when you're listening to it. That ship my favorite versus uh. He went and got Eugene and they found twenty eight points that would hang a wedding ring. Because the deer actually only officially scored twenty six points score able points, but by wedding ring on it, it'll score it will score twenty eight. Because that's what or Province always said. He called a twenty eight point buck. Now the difference is Boon and Crockett recognizes anything over one inch one inch. Well, but listen to this. This is where it gets it gets real and gets gets there quick. Is that I and this is getting serious quick to the dream that I had in two thousand and seven and the pictures right over on that wall. I'll put the picture on Instagram. I had a dream that I killed a twenty four point buck with a bow, and that year I killed a buck that by Boone and Crockett standards had twenty one points, but by hanging a ring it has twenty four points. And that you just have to deal with that. If you don't believe it, do you feel like God is not um Boone and Crockett certified? Is that what you're saying that? That's not what I'm saying. I've just said these are the facts. These are the facts. What did y'all think of the Orally Province story about Well? I think that I love this story because I remember when it happened. You took ship with you on that on that trip, and I think from I mean probably the reason I loved it is a little different than the reason all the hunters are, but it's it's like a personal connection to the story and what that that produced. How old was Sheep when you took him, it was he was was the only eleven. I mean I know almost the exact day. It was, March of nineteen. He looks so little in that picture. Yeah, a lot happens went from eleven. Yeah, yeah, well, he um, he's he's. I remember that year at school they were learning about World War two and they said something about about when it ended, and Sheep right new new immediately he was like forty five, I think, and he and he was like I know it, and he argued with someone about when it ended. But he knew the story because of sitting in that room. He was just sitting through And to me, I just thought, this is a great way, like what a wonderful tradition to hear oral history, and that it made, you know, it really demonstrated the value of oral history and of having young people make connections with older people and hear their stories because it helps them piece together the world. Because, like you said at the end, time is moves faster than you realize, and that Sheep will have you know that history in his life and He'll be able to tell that history to a generation, you know, Lord will in a generation that is a lot has the same spread in terms of on the other end than him. And that's how we know our people, That's how we know our stories, that's how we know our history. I just think it's so valuable and that was such a special experience for our family. Yeah, right right, yea, Misty, I totally, I totally agree with you. There's something that I've always since I was a little I was fortunate enough to know all my great grandparents on my mother's side, and uh, one of my great grandfathers emigrated from Europe and he would tell me he was seventeen and nineteen fifteen, and he would tell me stories of when he came to the US through Ellis Island and I remember that came through the Lambridge, and I remember how impacting those stories were, and listening to Mr Ory, it had that same flavor and it's like you latch onto those things and and you know the simplicity with which he lived his life. And you know, I was thinking about um as he was talking. In my mind the phrase simplicity is stability, you know, to think about they had nothing. But they were stable, you know, and there's there's a stability that comes with a simple life that Mr Orry was able to communicate and uh yeah, just a beautiful it's a beautiful thing to listen to, that oral history. My grandfather was born in nineteen thirty, you know, my mom's side. He told me the difference in the depression was that they didn't know they was in one until the everybody she outed, hooray, we're out of it, and they're like, well, this is like last Wednesday. So they were eating what they grew, what they hunted, you know, what they raised and everything, and it just wouldn't know the bank was, you know, in the kitchen cabinet where they if they got money for selling something hids or furs or or vegetables or whatever, you know, they put it them in a can and a coffee can and in the cabinet. Other than that, you know, they didn't know what was going on. And it's very similar to what I loved when he said we had plenty of eat. Yeah everybody did. That may have been you know in my grandfather's case, and you know, they were catching postums and rendering them out, I mean, feeding them out and then eating them. But it was also whatever. But he he said, oh, we had plenty of eat. Yeah, like that was silly. Yeah, yeah, it was like, that's a dumb question. It was a non event, Dad, What do you think about it? Well? He reminded me of Roy. Was it Roy Clark from Tennessee? Yeah, you know, I kept taking both of their lives and kind of like going, they're so similar, you know, uh, and the way they talk. I mean, I just I just love that dialect. It's just it's just beautiful to listen to. Of course he had a simple life, but to kill what he killed, you know, basically a week or two. You know, it's just it's just pretty phenomenal. And so it I spent my whole time thinking about luck. What is luck? I mean, you know, so I kind of focused on what did you think the underlying behind it? Um, what do I think about? Yeah, take us into your thoughts on that. Well, I don't think it's luck, man. I mean, I think I've got a friend that just I called him before I got up here. I got a friend. It's hit thirteen holding once on the course thirteen Jimmy Sears. You know, Jimmy and I called Jimmy. I said, Jimmy, it was it nine third time many? He said thirteen? And I said did you did you have any streaks where you did two or three in a row. He said, no, I never did more than one in a year. Of course, he's my age were the same mage, so he've been playing golf a lot of years. And so I said, well, you played two hundred twenty times a year. There's usually in an average of four part three's on an eighteen whole course. I first said, Jimmy, you had six hundred shots a year at a hole in one and three? Yeah? And he said you're you're saying only a part three Yeah. I mean you're not gonna get up holding one on a part four part five. He said, no, there's like four. He said, I had about four hundred, eight hundred shots a year to make those. And his good buddy, who's also a good buddy of mine, is not that good of a golfer. And he said, he said one or two just blind luck. You know, he's not a good golfer, and he's still because he played a lot. But Jimmy placed two hundred and twenty times a year. So I mean, if he wasn't good, he probably would have had three or four holding ones. But he's really really he's one of the top senior golfers in state Arkansas in my opinion. So related to just so so oory, he's he's in the woods a lot. He's he's good with his gun. Holy cow, shooting a running buff you gotta be kidding. Nine times. He must have had an a R fifteen shooting had nine rounds. I don't know how he loaded. That's just what he told me. You know, I would have never probably shot at the deer. I would have gone, Wow, what a buck? You know what I mean? So he had to where with alda I mean back in the day, you had to shoot it because you couldn't take a picture of it with yours. So where Jimmy is really good with a club and a ball, you know, or he's good with a gun. He knows how to hont he's in the woods a lot. He's doing all this stuff. He created his own. Look now, once that that opportunity, that's the key thing is opportunity. He had. He saw an opportunity, he took advantage of the opportunity, and he was skilled and ready. I mean, he I would never have hit the deer. I would have been in a panic. I wouldn't have even had time to I mean, you know what I'm saying. There's an old saying in golf, and it's I've seen it attributed to the fifteen different people. But the more you practice, the luck you're you'll get. Yeah, yeah, I know you've heard that, which means the more you do something, I mean, it's a better chance. So you know what, I what I came up with, and I a lot of this. I don't know, it's not original thinking, probably, but you know, luck is it's kind of like the definition you I heard you say, the definition of love. It's it's almost like a little story I read where a guy said he was in New York City and sixty years old. He had a business he wanted to sell it, and he heard a guy say, Mr Buffett. And this guy goes ching ching Buffett, New York City, and he said, I walked over and I said, are you Warren Buffett? And the guy said yeah, he said, I got a business I'm trying to sell. I think I think you'd like to hear the deal. Eventually he sells he sells the guy Warren Buffett this business. I mean, so that that was luck he heard he heard the name just skill involved in then he had he had the wherewithal to say, here's an opportunity, I'll never have it again. And he took advantage of it and in the capacity to pitch something, and he had a product. You know, it was really really good, you know. So, uh, there was a little luck that that deer came by me, no question. But still he was there, he was equipped, he was ready, he took advantage of it. I'm gonna I'm gonna play Devil's advocate. I'm gonna completely disagree with Kerry because I think that could be said if our province had killed those deer when he was sixty. But according to when he said he was born, he was twenty eight years old, thirty eight years old. How many years have you hunted? Well, you know, I mean you're in the woods, you're in the woods a lot, right, deer have you killed? And I mean you're hunting the same territory, and our deer numbers are greater than what they were back then, So there had to be something because I mean, they're skilled hunters that we know who hunt hard, who won't ever even see it, dear that big. That was the only part of it that if you were, if you were making a case to a to an unbiased jury not from this planet, that didn't understand luck or anything, as you would say, this man was very prepared, He was very diligent, he was very skilled. He put in his time. But the size of these deer was wild, especially when you understand age structures of white tails. Because let's just say those were six and a half year old deer, five and a half year old deer, which is an old deer. The chance of that could have translated into just like a nice eight point I mean, I think one of the oldest dear ever killed is about a hundred and fift eight point over there, with a big, old heavy basses, and he was just a brute and just an old I felt like he was an old deer, but he just had like a little little scrubby seat of horns. And the fact that twice he killed an older age class deer that carried that kind of stuff. What that's what was wild. Now if he had had just because I tried to make this analogy inside the podcast, was that that year, he may killed two five and a half year old deer that were hundred and thirty five in eight points, which would have been more common. Gary. I grew with what Josh is saying, except for one thing. Or he was looking for a deer. You know, the guy that sold his business to warn Buffett just heard the name Buffett. I mean, you know, if he had just been walking around with his gun just looking and go, oh, there's a big deer. You know, he was looking for deer. So I more agree with you than some of the stuff I'm saying. So, in fact, was he was looking for that name was Jimmy. I think the question are you Jimmy? I think the question isn't was it luck? I think the greater question is what is luck? You know what I mean? Because there was there was some kind of favor there the question. I used the term luck. Isaac and I talked about this before I used it. I don't really I might use the term luck just so people understand what I'm talking about. I really don't believe in luck. I mean I I use that term because we all can identify. When I say luck, You're like, oh, I know what you're talking about. But that was my The whole point of my thing is is what is luck? And and is there because and I try to make it clear, is that there's actually there's when you root it down to the very foundational position, there's two there's a split in the road when you start to define luck and its origin. And one is this naturalistic approach that it's just chance, and then the other would be a supernatural why in the road of there's something outside of this place, orchestrating things to happen to people that are beyond their control for a specific reason. I mean, that is my definition providence. That's the difference between providence and luck. Really, okay, do you have the definition of providence? I wouldn't even really have caught that. I take Isaac so much more serious with this outfit on Jim Shorts and the protective care of a god or of nature as a spiritual power, God or nature as providing protective or spiritual care, timely preparation for future eventualities. Okay, providence Yeah, so okay, So really that's what I was. That's what we were talking about. It was luck or providence, yeah, not province. And so that's that's why the title works Providence. Now he wishes he would have gone with it, and well, I didn't. Text n always has like really deep, catchy titles for stuff that I don't get for like a minute or two, and then after the deadline, Well it's after I immediately respond back, I don't get it, and then I realized it's really good. There's there's two styles. It's either that or just like empirically bad. And you go like, not that, but that inspired the actual Yeah, I'm not I'm not a median guy. I'm like one extreme or the other. But I think you're talking you kind of actually got three things. You don't just have luck and providence. You've also got this real strong and Gary's bringing that in, and several of your the guys who talked are bringing that in. Also merit that this is just this there's luck totally strikes me as a false dichotomy. Yeah, there's there's three different things that you're really exampling. Here was this Luck? Was this? I think we should go back and just erase the podcast. Okay, we can make it look like an accident. Where's episode sixty two? Our account got hacked? Luck? Providence? Or was this is this a result of hard work. Total just yeah, is this he because of his hard work? He was there and then and so it was married. And I think that that is the narrative that fits best inside of the American psyche. That's that's kind of more how we think about the world. It's because of his hard work this happened. That's that's our that's our you know, rugged individualistic value system is that people get what they they read, what they saw, and he did good things and he's reaping the benefit of it. And so that's this like third thing over here, And I think what you're what you're talking about with like that that buck right there, the one, the biggest one you ever killed, you know, that was that was not merit. That was there was something way more to it than that. And so you're seeing it through that lens. And I think there's other cultures who would definitely not ever think that, They would never put merit in there as a piece of the this is why this happened. They would always see it as providence. But I think the above it's fundamentally both because if you had had that dream, but you had never out of bow right, like that's nothing right, you have had the dream if he never shot a bow. Oh no, wed come it. We got a real Schrodingers buck, put on my calvoy boots and all of a sudden, I've got a million dollar words. No, but seriously, like a great example is like if ore Province was born twenty years earlier, like what stuck at? What? Like neon words? When you were interviewing, He's like, I walked miles a day. You guys, you ever walked twenty or regularly? Like I, I can do that, but it is brutal. And so it's like he fundamentally put in some work, right, but if he was born twenty years earlier, it wouldn't have mattered if you walked twenty or twenty five miles a day because there were no deer. Literally, it wouldn't have mattered to lick. And so like I, I cannot separate the two. I think that there's providence. Yeah, I I don't subscribe to the idea of blind luck. Um, but I wouldn't. That's not a mountain I die on. I think there's providence and then I think there's merit. And I think that he had both of those things going. And that's kind of what I was saying when I said, sometimes people want to just grab hold of one thing or the other just like it's all chance. Yeah, it's all chance. There's no there's nothing but chance in the universe. YEA or or someone say the other side of it, which would be like every miniscule thing that the Brent's chair just squeaked because you know X, Y and C. Yeah. Yeah, So so it's like there's there's like have every deer that I've killed have I felt like it was like life changing, monumental it was Brent's chair. No, did that, dear change in my life? There's no one on this earth that will ever convince me otherwise it really did. And uh and so was that dear important? Was that dear did something from another place? Yeah? I think we need to talk about that, dear a little bit more. I think we needed and I think we need to talk about especially if you're gonna put the picture on Instagram. There's some side text on the picture there that we probably need to explain. And I will say, when you brought that deer back, Ava, Josh's youngest daughter was here. Oh yeah, Josh's and would they were tiny pictures, they were big old fat cheek babies. And they both We've got pictures of both of those two, Bear and Ava standing over there in their pj's and and their little fat cheeks are just sitting there smiling. I did not have any idea represented all give us a story. Well, he kind of told you. Well, I was just saying, I think, I mean, I think that that you know, you're you're kind of bringing that in, and I thought the way you brought that in at the end was sort of underwhelming. It was kind of a big, huge deal that I thought. I mean, maybe it's because of the impact it's had on us, but I thought it was a little bit like I didn't do a good job. Well, I'm not saying I just didn't want them. I didn't want to I didn't want to want to make it. I didn't want to make but I wanted to throw it out there like this, and you drew it out and July, I think it says July two thousand and seven. I'll look at it. And I saw the buck, and I woke up and I drew pictures of it. In the buck that I drew has really long curved brown times. It's got a burr point and it's got kickers. And if you look at that buck and look the buck I killed, they look a lot alike. And I wrote, I wrote a note on the sketch. I said, do not throw away Misty. There is no comma, so he is talking. I knew what would happen is I drew it. And then I didn't really have a place to put the sketch, or or at the time I didn't, and so I just knew it was just gonna be like laying around, like on my bedstand, would write down incredible the important phone numbers are confirmation numbers and just set them down and then be like, why did you throw that away? And it's like it was literally on ash And so anyway, I framed the sketch and then there's a cut out. There's a picture of the deer in this little frame. But and writing about that, it's one of the things that jump started your It was the only thing I never even I never even thought about writing an article or going into the outdoor industry at all. I just killed a big deer and I was like, man, it would be pretty cool to write a story about it. Because because there was an angle that I had on the story from a tactical sense, I actually really used a lot. I mean I hunted the deer fifteen mornings. At the time, I could only hunt in the morning, and so I hunted a hunted mornings the only time, the only days I didn't hunt was I went down to your deer camp, Dad, So I killed the deer on October. I spent three mornings at your deer camp, so fifth basically fifteen straight more and I hunted for that deer and uh and killed him on the eighteenth. This was before we had trail cameras and stuff, so I had I had seen the deer with my own eyes one time in the spot and ended up hunting there. And I rattled him in on on a ball me windy like seventy two degree morning on October eighteen. But you had the dream win July two thousand seven, killed in October two thousand seven. And the and the thing is, it's like, you know, like you can you can say, I'm not trying to make the dichotomy here, but like to illustrate the point that it's both is like a few hundred fifteen straight mornings, you know what I mean, Like you didn't go out October one and like plug it and go. There was some work involved, dad, did you uh, I know, I think I know the answer to this. But did you ever see that deer or you know? Yeah, I at the time my dad had related to your dream. But all, oh, well, I videoed the deer in late August, but you didn't see the dream. I never knew the deer was alive until well months handlers wouldn't have looked like that in July of two thousand seven. Well, that you're right. And the next thing is the first time I saw the deer was actually the first time I saw that dere was like September the eighth or nine of two thousand seven. So let's get the timeline you have. I think it's helpful for listeners. July, you have the you have the dream. August. I remember waking up and it was a big rot morning and I was going out to get hot. That's all I remember. I was going to work, yeah, August. So that's not helpful for the timeline. Just just what I see I remember waking up. Just a little color commentary, and we just need yes or no, sir, just fair details, just for the listeners to have alright, so yeah, alright, so July, I used to work with these two hands dream alright, songs aug August. You see the deer. Does the deer look like the deer you saw in the dream in August? Oh? I never made the connection. Okay, you you kill the deer. I never made the connection until like long after I even killed the deer. Like it wasn't like I was impressive in other ways. It wasn't. I don't think that's a compliment. I mean I don't remember how long, but but I mean it wasn't like I shot the deer and I was like, who's the deer in the dream? Like it was some time after I was like, man, I drew a picture. I mean it was that, you know, like I almost didn't draw the picture. It wasn't like I was like, I'm gonna kill a deer this year. It was just like I had a dream, was really clear, vivid impact, like it was significant when you woke up. Yeah, yeah, I remember more about I remember more about the dream, dude, because I remember you talking to me about it because I was like what this and but don't throw away missy. So it was sometime after that I realized that. But I think that's your next song title, Don't throw away Misty a good valid right there, ballad of the I call that buck Dagger. Yeah, yeah, Hey, I got something to say about what most Shepherd was saying about getting loaded up and going over to see it. Like I'm not here to say like technology is the downfall of human civilization or whatever, but like it made me like it immediately took me to the floating tote in Elderado Springs, Missouri, where we'd go check in our dear and everybody go post up there the floating tote. You pull in in your truck and all of a sudden everybody would come over start looking over the bed. You just couldn't if you got anything halfway decent, you couldn't wait to get down there and just just talk about it and see what everybody had saying. Moe's dad would have just looked on Facebook, yeah, hey, or's house yeah, or or or would have texted them and say I killed a big deer, congrats. There's just something magical about like being there in person, like that community connection of like going over and seeing it and feeling feeling proud about it. It's describing social capital social capital, it's I mean, he's what he's talking about is the networks that people form and how those those create identity, they create resources. When you when economists look at the world and they look at human capital, they look at economic resources to evaluate nations, to evaluate communities. But these other the social scientists came up with this other term in the mid late nineties called social capital, and it's how people are connected to each other. And they I mean, it actually came up earlier than that, but it got popularized in the mid nineties. But that that those connections actually provide a resource to that community that is as valuable as the economic connections. And you they look at this in terms of marriage, they look at this in terms of voting patterns, the way they evaluate whether there's social capital in the community, and it's it's been in pretty much steady decline since the Middle Park. I mean, that's fascinating that that nails it with what Isaac sam Social capital is like having gold coins. Social media is like he's a credit card. Social media is like those chocolate gold coins. Okay, there's something they're a little hit. I never saw ore province without a pair of overalls on that didn't make it in the song. I tried to find overalls that didn't happen. I felt it, you felt his overall? Yeah, I felt like this man was yeah for real, Like I don't know that he was like brand, what kind of footwear did he wear? Tevas? He was a Tiva man. He's more of a chacos. I saw him just wear kind of like, uh, just brown leather lace up boots. I couldn't tell you that. Yeah, I couldn't tell you the brand. Here's here's another question on that. On the front of social media, I feel like, because today it's so prevalent, I had this like in congruence in my mind of like only wanting to shoot big deer because I want to post them on social media so I can get validation in that way, right, And so like shooting big deer is tied to my self worth, and so like feeling weird and decided to grow your hair out, I'm looking for social validation or external validation in any way. But like this idea, Like when I listened to it, it didn't sound like there was some disappointment that he peaked early as a hunter or something like that. It's like the end goal was not like killing the biggest deer, but it was just going and killing dear and enjoying being in the woods and enjoying hunting. And like when I listened to that, I go, like, man, that's really cool to have like killed two arguably world class dear in the span of two weeks early on in your hunting career. Yeah, and and not to like care resentment or a grudge about Like, yeah, they didn't then they were they were meat hunting. They they wanted they liked killing big deer. But like he would have killed a basket irak eight point just as fast as he would have killed one of those other deer. And I think that would have been really common back in those that period of time. James Lawrence killed his biggest deer in the sixties, wasn't it. Yeah, the first deer every kid. So you know, you look at that um and there weren't as many hunters. Those big deer were out there because they weren't getting hunted as much. And you know Lawrence's family, they were hunting over here where the deer sign was, and and James was going where where the uneducated guy would go. He was doing stupid stuff. It kills this huge buck. And a lot of times you'll see stories where a little ind just to have your old kids killed a hundred nine point buck, you know whatever. Buck. Well, the reason that happened is because his uncle's said, hey, look, kid, don't know what he's doing. Put him down there where old used for years and never saw a deer. Let's get the goods stands for us guys that know how to kill him. Well, they send him down there. Guess what, he kills the big buck because the big bucks don't run where I hunt. I guarantee you I know they don't. I don't want to. I don't want to kill a big buck. You gotta sit. It's too hard. I mean, I want to sit where a bunch of activities going on, well, like tying right into that, like they just and tying into luck. They just had what was the guy's name, Dustin Huff Mediator podcast, and they got down a rabbit hole of talking about how many people kill big deer the first time they sit somewhere. He killed the record for is it American United States? It's the United States biggest typical And it was the first time he sat in that stand, and it was just like, oh, that, I guess that makes sense. That educated buck is gonna get white. There's the second step to that that you never hear is that no one else is sitting that stand either in a long time, so that buck is there because if you don't hunt there, you're gonna hunt a scraper rub over here. And that buck is smart and says, you know where the people go, I'm over here. Welly. I talked with the the the white tailed deer biologists for the State of Arkansas to get some of the data on that reintroduction of deer um, and I spoke with him and he he he said the same thing he said in the nineteen sixties, they were they were actually more dear in the nineteen sixties then probably I thought there would have been thirty deer per square miles. Actually a decent amount of deer, and in some places there were thirty deer per square mile, maybe not that deep in the mountains where or he was out because it's just rough, full canopy stuff. But he said the same thing, he said, they're just weren't a lot of people out there hunting, And so there were there were bucks that were getting old, and so yeah, there's there's something to be said there. And I guarantee you and I haven't looked at the weather and patterns during that time, but I have followed the mountain Man big buck contests for about twenty plus years, and on years like this year, I guarantee you probably guarantee you, probably guarantee you that the deer are gonna be of less quality on a really dry, droughty year because the nutrition of these animals coming into the to the to the to the summer nutrition they have, but new antler growth is also connected to how they did last fall. There's a lot of things connect to antler growth, but connecting problems nutrition when the deer was in the womb. Yeah, it's connected to a lot of stuff, but it is seasonal. Like on a dry year, like there's usually a mountain Man, usually there's like one deer that might net Boone and Crockett. And that's a four county area northwest Arkansas. Maybe one two deer net boone and Crockett. Uh. The year that I killed my big buck in two thousand seven, proud of you, there were thank you, there were two deer that netted boone and Crockett that hung on the wall because I took my buck to the Mountain Man Big Buck contest. Absolutely. Yeah, in nineteen sixty those deer weren't near as smart as they are now right now. You know, these deer just said, Okay, I'm gonna walk below this buff bluff. You know this is a cool way to walk. Well, they're not gonna do that today. And if you go to the same mountains, you know, if you go the same area, you're probably not gonna find that bigger buck in there that deer would have gotten if he were living in the last teen years. He got killed when he was too Yeah, you know, he got killed. He about three or four years old. You know, there's a lot of people that hunt in that part of the world now for sure. Yeah, so luck you know, I still don't really understand the look part. But he was a little lucky. But well, and you know Most Shepherd who is today one of the best deer hunters I know for that part of the world, just big woods, deep public land hunting, and Most never killed a hundred and seventy deer. And he's killed a lot of deer and a lot of old deer and that is just luck of the draw on like mo is hunting as big and old a deer as there are out there and killing them and they usually have about hundred thirty you know, the odd one is going to be up in the one fifties. And that's just pretty standard. Um, and there are these outliers that do happen, and um yeah, that's pretty unique, pretty unique. But I think I think what I was getting at is that our understanding of how the world works influences our decisions, you know. But I I do believe that we bank on street whatever you want to call it. I'm gonna call it luck, just because just we bank on unmerited favor coming to us. I mean. And actually, the human I thought about this since the podcast. Let's erase this podcast and do it again, Isaac. The human human metabolism is built up on the potential for fortuitous streaks of luck. We literally, like are designed to gorge ourselves at times, and our bodies store fat for when the next day and the day after that and the day after that we can't find a fruit tree full of fruit, or we don't make a kill. And that's the reason that the majority of Americans are obese is because we get lucky every day when it comes to food. Luck. Do you see what I'm saying, Because sometimes it's like how do we how do we? Uh? We're just not designed to have a gourmet mill every single meal of every single day of our life. We're built to have some good fortune at times and some lean times at times, and it all kind of evens out in the end. Here's another interesting thing that I thought of while Tony Peterson was talking about is this idea of placebos, because he was talking about psyching yourself up doing some good point. A placebo has a measurable effect, which is crazy for everybody who doesn't know. A placebo is like a man, those cowboy's just changed. It's no, no, no, no, no no no, they changed your life. I've been the same guy the whole time, like tattoo guy knew before by the whole time, you just were casting aspersions on me because of my parents. A placebo is like a I don't know how to define it. It's a control and so like it has a measurable effect. So you can be given a non medication and it makes you better, even a sugar instead and get better still and what's crazier than that is it is also a measurable effect if you know, it's a placebo, which is like mind boggling. I don't know what the to what degree it is, but it's just like the human brain has, or the human body or the human spirit or whatever it is, has an amazing ability to impact real outcomes. That's good. That's good is one day didst this year? I did it this year. I posted on social media, felt cute, might kill a big deer? Later what did I do? Killed a big one? Thirty minutes later, I killed a gross one sixty one point. Do a story about yours one day they may induct me. Yeah, he's got a lot of years of proven character to I thought it was interesting, Like when I go like hunting, or if I go fishing, and I'd like, there's this sense of catching a big fish. I always try to think, well, I'm not going to catch a big fish, yes, or I'm not going to kill a deer today, and there's almost yeah, there's almost the sense of if I do, it's this bonus. Yeah, I'm gonna have a good time. I won't be disappointed. Yeah. Yeah, man, I never stepped to the plate. I don't think I ain't just needed out of the part. Really really every time, I'm very much more just one crash of expectation. I'm always high expectations and high results. Yeah, I'm definitely in the Josh Spielmaker camp of mitigating expectations. You've heard of the Casey treeve says that my what is it call on your gravestone will be managed expectations. Excellent. Well, I really enjoyed this podcast, and for for people that would have been fallowing along on the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast, they would have heard the full interview. So actually it would be like a bonus episode if you wanted to hear it unedited full version. I talked to Mr Roy for an hour and a half, so on this podcast there's twenty one minutes, so there's actually a lot more, and it's, uh, it's just it's it's totally unedited, so it's us like talking about the weather, us, you know, kind of doing stuff. But it was it was good. There was a lot on it. His wife came on and talked and told how she puts up corn and how she cooks deer meat, and she told about her grandchildren. You know, my favorite parts of these podcasts. My favorite part of that whole episode was the very begins, well close to the beginning, when you hear the screen door open and Mr Roy goes, Hi, Clara, how are you doing? And I talked to him, and then his wife comes in and she says, oh, excuse the house. I just was good to vacuum. Yeah, I didn't want to do it. And then you a sandwich of floor. Yeah, well it just it just it just kind of I don't know, if you've been there, you just know those people and it, uh, it kind of tells the story. And uh yeah, they they he was a relic of a man, and I continue to be amazing. Tried to make the point on the podcast that every general ation has a touch point with a much older generation that they think are like the real deal. Yeah, And when I look at our province and Lew and Nuka, my grandfather and uh and guys that aren't here anymore, I'm like, man, they were the real old timers. Like when I look at Dad, like, Dad's not an old timer. I mean, like, you know, to me, you're seventy five, and it's but it's because we're seventy four. Because we're pretty close in age, give them the year. But to my to my kids, they'll talk about their granddad and be like, godly, he was born in like seventeen seventy three, you know. But the my point is is that everybody. I actually talked to Brooks Blevins about this one time, the Ozark historian, academic guy, Dr. Brooks Blevins, and he said, every single generation has, for a period of time the oldest possible people that they could interact with. And those guys always have something very different in a very different life experience than you, and so they're really intriguing. But there was a time when Oriy Province was like on the pop culture cutting edge of time when he was eighteen years old and and the old timers to him, we're born in the eighteen thirties. That was my point. Inside of that, it's kind of mind boggling. And Daniel Boone, Daniel Boone would have one time just been like the dude driving down the road driving a you know, twenty nineteen Chevy Silverado four world drive with a couple of mules in the back. You know, he would just would have been like a normal guy, and he would have interacted with people. People was a stock trail with a stock trailer in the back, No trailer. That's where I'm headed. Um point being, you can't imagine Daniel Boone looking back in the history of going man, the old timers. But he is just like us, Just like us. Daniel Boone was like two people back, three people back. I mean, he's not that far. Lincoln is not that far back from us. Really, you know, you go back to Jesus Christ twenty people. I mean I figured it before. When you're a kid, we probably talked about it. You know, you just go back. I had an old buddy that was in his nineties and I'm thinking, okay, he's born here, you know, if he knew somebody back, you know, and you just she start tumbling that back and I mean it's really Lincoln. They are about the same age. You know, you get a picture. Yeah, for real. The last the last widow of a Civil War veteran died in what what Yeah, she got married when she was young and he was older, and then she lived to a hundred and one. Wow. But then your pipe and smoke it. Isaac's one day gonna run bear grease like they know, because she was still drawing his pension, which was like seven dollars or something like that, Confederate dollars. Man, I hope not. I'm just crypto crypt I don't I don't buy it, Isaac. So what year did they get married? At age seventeen? Married ninety three year old widow or James Boland? She was she was digging for that money she married him, not during this gold digger. That's fascinating. We need to do in December six. Wow, Marshfield, Missouri? Are you from by Springfield? That's unfortunate that there weren't some conversations there. Look, wow, that was a great place. Queen a Shield. Would you be interested in getting back tattoo of the Burgharis Hall of Fame members? There's there's a perpetual flash. I'll take it under consideration every time. If you got the tattoos and I was like, man, Isaac, your part, we might contract. Would you have to have something removed to put it on there? No? No, no, no, I got plenty of realistic I think he should maybe legs, you know they're full misty well, I mean he could remove stuff the backs of the legs, you know, just keep that. You could just keep one list. Yeah. One. You could have it drawn like a scroll. Yeah awesome, and I could be holding it like this, Yeah, full size, bigger, fantastic. I love There's so podcast is just hit home for me, This one did. I liked it aside from all the white Tail tactic stuff we talked about, which I I mean, the main part that really hit home was Ori stuff, but the having Mark Kenyon and Tony Peterson. Those guys are good, man, they really are. Their colleagues minded mediaor hunted with them, They're uh, they're really good. And I did mention that this fall you'll get to see me and Mark Kenyon hunting public land in Arkansas, big mountain country on a back country mule type hunt, which is pretty cool because that's kind of the way I mean, as you know, same part of the world or he was in and uh so yeah, you can check that out. Dad. Closing thoughts just very interesting. Enjoyed it. I'm still looking for some luck to come my way. Oh well, that's all. Keep the wild places wild. M

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