00:00:05 Speaker 1: What did it look like? It was red red suit. It had on the lapels like on lapel, the stitching was white, so it stood out against that white cowboy boots yea, and red pants. Had a big white belt with a belt buckled size of a student Baker hubcap. And he had an embroidered coon on the on the left lapel. Yep, coon face right there. On this episode of the Bargaras podcast, we're diving deep into Southern culture and identity to get a view from the captain's chair of Jerry Clower's mind. Does that name ring a bell? Jerry was thrust into national fame in the nineteen seventies when a story he told about coon hunting topped the country music charts. I'm interested in those odd places where rural culture and specifically hunting, touches the mainstream. Old Wilson Rawl's bridge the gap with this book where the red fern rows, and Jerry did it with comedy about hunting varmouts. He's been gone for a long time, but I was able to go meet up with his old neighbor in East Fork, Mississippi and a Mitt County, and he'll give us a behind the scenes look into who Jerry was, and some of it will surprise you, and believe it or not, Old Brent Reeves met Jerry Clower and saw his famed gold Cadillac that Brent swears was as long as the battleship. Trust me, boys, you're not gonna want to miss this one. It was beyond my comprehension that somebody in my family didn't know him, because the stories that he told were stories that I could identify with as far as how he grew up. My name is Clay Nukelem and this is the Bear Grease Podcast, where will expe lord things forgotten but relevant, search for insight and unlikely places, and where we'll tell the story of Americans who lived their lives close to the land, presented by f HF gear, American made, purpose built hunting and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. First of all, I want you to know that I come from right four Liberty, Mississippi. Now that's twelve miles west of McCombe, Mississippi, sixty five miles due northeast of Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and a hundred and sixteen miles due north of New Orleans, Louisiana. It was that that I first saw the light of day out of a nick Countess September nine hundred and twenty six. I was born there. If you recognize that voice, many assumptions could be made about you and your history. You're likely over the age of thirty, have some tie to the Southern United States, are a fan of old country music, and I could likely guess your political leanings. Throughout any culture in the world, there are insiders who represent a sector of the population. These people are significant and carry the values of their people, but their interpretation of those values is amplified through time. My friend Steve Ronella recently said that if you can ice fish in your state, that state isn't in the South, and I completely agree with that from a geopolitical boundary standpoint, But I'd like to add a second layer of analysis. If your family listened to Jerry Clower, you're likely culturally Southern, and I'll make a definitive statement. If you don't know who Jerry Clower is, you aren't Southern. I'm sorry, or you've been locked at a chicken coop your whole life. We've been talking about hunting raccoons with hounds and exploring the cultural impact of the book Where the Red Fern Grows. We've pontificated on that time. Coon Hunting did a tomahawk dunk on mainstream culture and they loved it. I'm looking for patterns on how to positively portray rural life to a sector of the population that may not understand it. Wilson Rawls did it with his book, and we'll see that the brilliant humorist Jerry Clower did it by telling a human story. You see, Jerry was catapulted into the national spotlight in nineteen seventy one because of a short tale he told about a coon hunt in Mississippi. The story was so intriguing producers from New York City traveled to meet him with, in Jerry's words, a pocket full of money, and the following contract launched the forty five year old fertilizer salesman into immediate stardom. Jerry wasn't a musician, but recorded seven full length recordings through m c A Records, producing two gold albums and a platinum record, and he became a member of the Grand Old Opry, wrote four books and hosted multiple television shows. Jerry's first album made more than ten million dollars in the first ten months and stayed in country's top twenty on the chart for thirty weeks. Author Willie Morris said Clower's comic art demonstrates the richness of the spoken language in the South and all its inwardness, nuance, and sweet. He described it as extravagant Southern talk. Jerry would become known as the mouth of the South, and in a time of racial upheaval, he was outspoken in his support of racial integration and support of our Frican Americans. Jerry has been gone since n but I traveled to East Fort, Mississippi, in a Mitt County to meet with Jerry's longtime neighbor and fellow East Fort Baptist Church member, Mr John Newman, who will help us unraveled Jerry's life and comedy. Mr John is a clean shaven, handsome feller in his early seventies with a headful of white hair, mid lenked side burns, and a worn pair of leather boots. But most importantly, he knew Jerry well and loved him like a brother. So Jerry. He was born in nineteen twenty six. He passed away in nine at the age of seventy one. What do we know about his early life that probably had some impact on just who he was. Tell me about his early history just as a kid, Jerry was born doing some real hard times in the history of the country. Depressions were pretty common. We went through two of them, went through a couple of World wars. Jerry and brother's Sonny, both served in World War Two, and his mother told me that one of the saddest stories that she could relate to in regard to her children and that at one time both of them boys were missing. They didn't know where they were, but she prayed that God would look out for him bring him back home safely, and it did. But Jerry was brought up in some pretty tough times. His mother was a sole provider. They didn't have a lot of the luxuries of life, just like a lot of people, a lot of us that were lived in this part of the country that grew up in the south during some pretty tough times. Jerry said that his county was so poor people couldn't afford to sin, and that he ate so much slick shiny boiled ochre that when he was a boy, he couldn't keep his socks up. Once, when asked if he hadn't been poor, if he would have achieved what he did, he said, quote no, because I probably would have been arrogant and I wouldn't have had a coon dog. He was a joy to be around. He loved everybody. He never let his fame or his fortune go to his head. Many times, uh different occasions, he would call me up asked me what I was doing. This was after he had moved back into the East four community. He did said, John, come on over, We're gonna put on some coffee. I want to tell you about where I been, who I saw, but ever where he went, anybody that he had in contact with, and genuine a lot of people. He knew people all over the country, politicians, athletes, people from every walk of life, business characters, so many people that he knew. He had a he had an influence on. Now tell me how you knew Jerry. I knew Jerry when I was just a small child. Jerry was a few years older than me at the time. He lived in Yazoo City and became a fertilizer salesman day for Mississippi Chemical Corporation, and it was just by coincidence and an accident. As Jerry has told me before, and as he related in some of his stories, he kind of backed into show business. But he was all he's a big talker. He was a good salesman. He had a lovable style character. If you met him, you never forgot him. And I think he was on a sales pitch over in Texas and somebody asked him to Jerry, what to tell him that you've got you need to use that you older Michael record. So so Jerry was selling fertilizer. He started using just some stories just to kind of loosen people up. That's right, I mean, just just like sales pitch and somebody heard it and said you are so funny and the guy the guy said, hey, I want to record you tell one of these stories, and he did. In nineteen seventy one, at the unlikely age of forty five, the fertilizer salesman recorded his first comedy album titled Jerry Klower from Yazoo City, Mississippi Talking with Lemon Label out of Texas. The album was a series of stories of Jerry just talking. Each was titled like a song on an album, and they sold over eight thousand records for five dollars each, and some radio stations started playing it. Then he got the attention he needed. The next day, I got a telephone call from New York City, said Mr Klawa, I'm vice president of a major record company. You have some talents, and the next time you're in this vicinity, would you drop by, we'd like to talk to you. I said, I ain't never gonna be in that vicinity. I said, Man, you don't leave Yeah City, Missippi, and just dropped by New York. If y'all want to see Man, you're gonna have to send for man. Two days later the telephone, the Decca label would sign Jerry to a recording contract. The album would later become one of his two gold record albums, selling over five hundred thousand copies in just one month. A gold record is one that sells over a half million albums. If you remember Robert Morgan's quote from our Boon series about how most great artists, explorers and writers do the best work of their life in their thirties, you'll see that that must not apply to fertilizer salesman. Well, that's what's so interesting is that he he didn't get into it until you know, he wasn't born into it. I mean he was, it was later in his life. That's very rare, I would say it is usually people have show business in their targets. From a young kid, that's something they pursue. That was he backed into it. It wasn't what he was trying to it. And then so he this guy recorded this record or recorded him telling some country story. Do you know what story it was, by chance that he told originally? Yeah? I think it was knocked him out, John, Oh really it was the coer. Okay, here in lies the reason we're talking about Jerry Clower. His all time most popular story was about raccoon honey with hounds. Very interesting. We'll hear more about this story later. I've heard it said that he was he was a humorist, not necessarily a comedian, which you know, to me, you know, to say, to say someone's a comedian just means that they're funny, which I think he would, you know, qualify for that. But the way he described himself as he said, I don't tell funny stories. I tell stories funny And That's what I'm so struck by. As I've listened to so much of his stuff is that the stories are often just kind of it's it's the normal life of it that sometimes is what's so interesting. But he has this cast of characters that he always goes through. So almost all his stories, all his all his routines, have this cast of characters. Can you name most of them? Well, that was my sale. There's Eugene Rdal Ray Noll Burnell, M L. New Gene, Eugene, Uncle Versey, ain't pet old man zays that was my great grandpa, Mr Versey. Quite a few of those characters, and so were those real people. Some of them were that I know of, and he used their real names or not. In some instances he did tell me what you know about some of those characters and some of the some of the things that he talked about, well, one in particular to my great grandfather, The story Mr John is about to tell is the real story that Jerry titled The New Chandelier, and you can listen to it on any streaming platform. It was included on Jerry Clower's greatest hit album. The Magnolia Electric Association had just begun to establish rural electric service here in our county. That was back into late forties. All you had to do was sign up, be willing to pay for the poll to be put up in electricity run from that pole to your house, and they took care of everything else. So they had notified our church that while they were in the community, they would be glad to provide our church with electrical service. So the church had a business meeting monthly business meeting, and it was brought up said hey man, look at here, here's a golden opportunity for us to have electricity lights at our church, and we need to think about this. It was brought up and voted on that we go ahead and let them put up to power polls and have electricity. And the moderator, which was a pastor, said is there any amendments or is there any discussion before we vote, and my great grandpa said, yeah, he had something he would like to share. But before that, one of the ladies in the church said she thought it would be a marvelous idea for the church to go ahead and get a chandelier since we was gonna have electricity. As the amendment was brought up, my great grandpa stood up and said he was against that. The moderator said, is there any discussion and our conversy that better said, Sir, I'd like to speak. I want all of you to know that if we're gonna buy a chandelier, there ain't nobody in our church. You got enough education that when we order it from seas and Roebucket, they could spell it. Then if we ordered the chandelier and it got here, there's nobody in our church it knows how to play it. And what I'm concerned about is we don't need to spend this money on no chandelier as bad as we need lights in the church. So that actually happened, happened, I'll be there. But then technology wasn't like it yesterday. Most people have never been no further than fifty or sixty miles now. They wasn't exposed to education like we are today, didn't have access to uh advancements in technology. And he didn't know he was speaking his heartfelt convictions. He honestly did not know. In this story, Jerry told it almost exactly as it happened, but he told it funny. And because many of the stories were true or almost true, they were relatable and showed the character of the people all the while poking a little fun at the stereotypes. But because Jerry was at the wheel, because he was one of us, it was okay. It made us feel okay about being Southern and strangely, maybe even a little bit proud of our quirks. You know, the South seems to be known for these big characters like storytelling, and maybe if you're deeply embedded, and it's hard to see that, maybe in other places it's not as it's not as prominent. But was Jerry surrounded by people that were like him? And I know nobody else made it in show business, but was he impacted Probably by people that taught him how to tell stories and be funny. I think a lot of that just came to him naturally. He associated with a lot of people that were of the same character makeup that he was. I guess in regard to that, they just did not have the people orientation to be able to express themselves and connect with people the way he did. Yeah, but I don't think that Jerry ever realized until he got into show business the impact that he did have on people. Yeah. I think there are three components to Jerry Clour. Number One, he was undoubtedly gifted at collecting stories and delivering them in unreplicatable, funny and compelling ways. However, number two, no man is an island, and I believe he would have learned components of his storytelling when he was a boy by listening to others in rural Mississippi. I'm sure he collected dialects and picked up on where to put the emphasis. He learned how to use sound effects and put it all together to create this unique style. And that brings up number three. Jerry Clower's style affected the way the South would and still does tell stories. Up until researching this podcast, it had been a while since I listened to Jerry years actually, and some of his stuff I had never heard. Coming back into his comedy, I clearly saw his cadence style, dialect, mannerisms echo through the way that people now tell stories. He helped interpret for us what was funny. You know a lot of people that are comedians are extremely intelligent number one, and are extremely socially aware. For him to be able to find the nuance of funny stuff inside of his every day culture, the stuff that other people were like walking right past, I mean, just shows what alert aware intelligent guy he was. Would you agree with that? I would Jerry. He had a way of relating to people. He was a very comical person. But to me, knowing him as well as I did, he appeared to me to be a lot more ease in a in a private climate. We've been to his house on numerous occasions, and he was a lot more comical because I think he was a lot more at ease with people that he knew and in a setting that he was familiar with, or his church, So he was more funny when he was with people. Yes, definitely, definitely. One thing that, uh, I've always been quite proud of. My wife had got her master's degree over William Carey Cottage and Jerry gave her this plaque and recognition of it and it's from the Knock Him Out John Foundation. He gave this to my wife. When he gave this to her, he told her how proud he was of her, and he looked at me and he said, you know, it's a miracle that you were able to accomplish make the Dean's List, these honors that you have received. It was a miracle. And with what you have to put up with at home and you. He was making reference to me, and I said, Jerry, let me tell you what a miracle is. I said, I can't sing, and I know that. And I said I know you can't either, because I don't sit with you before in church and other services. And you can't sing. I said, you couldn't carry a tune in the bucket. And I doubt if you know the difference between a guitar and a piano. Yet you have been inducted into the Grand Old Opery. That's what you call a miracle. And he grabbed me around the neck with his right hand and with his Bible clanched in his left hand, and he looked up in the heavens and tears run down his face and he said, John, ain't God good? Ain't God good? So it was a real moment for him. It was just even while you were trying to be funny and just and said, you know, making a joke about him not being able to sing, but being in the Grand Old Opery, it impacted him just in that moment. He was just grateful. It's moments like this with no cameras or recorders that you can see inside of someone. Jerry grew up dirt poor. He didn't hit the big time until he was in his mid forties. He truly appreciated what had happened in his life. I think it hit him hard on October nineteen seventy three when he was inducted into the Grand Old Opery. Now, if you're familiar with country music, there's no need to qualify that statement. But if you're not, this is a big deal. The Grand Old Opery is a weekly country music concert show held in Nashville, Tennessee, that started in the nineteen and has played almost every Saturday night for the last one hundred years. It's the longest running broadcast in US history. It's been called the home of American music and country's most famous stage. The Opery in ducts certain people as members who are people of influencing country music, but usually they're musicians, but Jerry was one of the rare inductees that wasn't. Members are required to perform at the opera a certain amount of times each year, and in its history, the Opery has inducted over two five members. You guys know Old Brent Reeves. He is Bear Greece's goodwill ambassador of the South and our chief corn bread contesseur. He grew up in the heyday of Jerry Clower's career, when listening to the Grand Old Opery was one of the highlights of the week. And wildly Brent got to meet Jerry. Can you imagine a young Brent Reeves meeting Jerry Clower? And I had to laugh when I heard what Jerry called him. We had what was known. I'm not even sure if he's still there. But there was an event center and it was called the Bradley County Cultural Center, cultural hub of the universe as far as far as the cultural love of Bradley cow exactly. And this is in warn Hearts at War in high school and it was on the campus of the high school there, and it was an auditorium and for our junior year fundraiser we got Jerry Clower that booked him to come and put on the show that would have been about the peak of his I mean, inside the peak of his career. Yeah, And I have no clue what it cost us to get him. But when he left, he handed the check back and said give me back to the school. He came from his home. He drove up there himself in the biggest, longest Cadillac I ever saw by himself. He had. All he wanted was a place to change, to change into his that suit that he wore, that signature. What did it look like? He was red red suit. It had on the lapels like on wappel, the stitching was white, so it stood out against that. And he had an embroidered un on the on the left lapel. Yep, coon face right there. And I got to meet him and he was so nice. Now, how did you meet him? Since it was our class and it was like ten or twelve of us that were selected to go over and help set everything up and to be there to help them since it was our project, our fundraiser. So I got out of class early that day to go over there and help him. Plus I wanted to meet him. I mean, this is somebody who I had seen on television and heard these stories. My uh we had the records old operation. Oh yeah, the whole the big it was a big deal. And uh I heard him on the Grand Old Library when my dad, and I've told you this before, my dad and I were go hunting at night. Of course we were running. He was chasing codies then with the pack dogs. But when until the race got going. We listened to the Grand Old Opery on a m radio in his truck and a lots sometimes, you know, Saturday nights. Yeah, Jerry Claren to be there, and so I've been listening to those stories my whole life. And this was you know guy that was in my radio. It was in he was in our community, you know, the community that the culture I guess that I grew up and so it was it was a big deal him him coming there, and I remember it being packed full of folks. Now, so was it open to the public. Yeah, they sold tickets, sold tickets sold sponsored by your class, sponsored raised money. I got you. And that's what it was. So you you said he pulled up in a Cadillac. You saw his Cadillac? What color was it? Gold? I'm telling you it was long as a battleship. It was huge. I heard that he had a gold Cadillac, so I'm just conn Yeah, yeah, well that's what he was driving. And like I said, he came by himself. He had a dressing room. They brought in some you know, some cold drinks to drink, and uh, I think somebody brought flowers and stuff. But he took time to talk to anybody that wanted to talk to. When I shook his hand and I was a junior in high school, he said, boy, that's a man's handshake. That's nice. He said, you were pretty boy, and uh that's what he said. Are you serious? Yeah? Absolutely, And we talked. Gonna forget that one. We were a pretty boy, He said, you were a pretty boy. And of course you know manners yesterday and no, sir, he remarked about that. And we just talked to him. You know, I tried to talk about I just assumed he had a pan full of coon dogs at home. I mean, but you know, obviously he didn't. And uh, he just had one embroidered pel of his red sports coach, which every man probably should have. You had on white cowboy boots, yeah, and red pants, had a big white belt with a belt buckled size of a student Baker hubcap, big fancy shirt. You know, Pearl snaps on it in that in that red signal. Jack, do you remember the thing? What did he do when he stood up? Was he the only act of the night? He was the act? He was? He was? How long did he speak? I would imagine about an hour Jerry Clower has famous stories, and he kind of he the greatest hits I would assume was what he he talked about. Of course he did the one about knock him Out John, you know about you know, shoot up in here amost this one of us has got to have some relief, you know when when he got up there with the wildcats. Of Jerry's entire career, his story called Knock Him Out John is his most famous. As always. The story starts out at Route four Liberty, Mississippi, and then he begins to give very specific geographic detail of where this town is, twelve miles west of McCole, Mississippi, sixty five miles due northeast of Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and a hundred and sixteen miles due north of New Orleans, Louisiana. It's so detailed you're drawn in with great curiosity of why this matters and place did matter to Jerry, just like it mattered to Wilson Ross. Then he proceeds to tell what they've done during the day before they went coon hunting that night this particular day, we wasn't too busy. All we had done is just cut down a few fence rolls, sutton shells from corn and went to mill, drew up some water because that was wash day. Help get the si back. What rooted out from under the net wire fence sharp and two sticks or stovewood, real sharp and pegged them down over the bottom wire of the fence where the hole couldn't root out the more and had a rat killing. If I'm lying, I'm dying. Jerry had a knack for using intricate detail of obscure activities to peak the interests of the listeners. He went on, well, this particular day, after we got through the rat killing, I walked out on the front porch and I hollowed, and them dogs come out from mother house barking. They knew he was going coon hunt. And I hollered again in my neighbor where across the Saint to patch. Hollered back, and that meant I'll meet you halfway. We met in the middle of that sage patch, and he had his dogs, Old Brommn Queen and Spot, and I had Tory and Little Red and old Trailer. And we went out into the swamps and we started hunting. Oh, we was having such a fine time. Caught four great Biggins. He and the neighbor then run into the landowner Mr Barron, who had gotten rich by selling cotton for a dollar of bell during the First World Wars. Incredible detail. And with those riches he bought some good coon dogs. Along with him was John Eubanks, who was known for being a professional tree calmer and loved knocking coons out of trees. Both of these guys were real people in Jerry's life. He had some world renowned dogs and we hollered three or four times and they started hunh and we listened and directly old brummy old Brammer didn't bark it nothing but a coon. He had a deep boys, babe. And when he cut out on in it was a coon. Don't worry about no blossom on No bobcat Rum was running a coon and an old trailer and old high ball and then famous dogs and Mr Barns got in there with him, and old John you Banks and Hallahoo speak to and my brother's son of Haho look fun and all it was beautiful. Shortly the dog's falling treed on I quote, the biggest sweet gum tree in the Amant River swamps, and the group goes to the barking dog. John, you bags didn't like shooting a coon out, and he only liked to knock him out of the tree for the dogs to sword out. So John proceeds to climb the tree with a sharp stick in his hand. Knock him out, John, It won't be long. And John worked his way on up to the top of the tree. And what a bacon. And he reached around in his overhauls and got that sharp stick, and he drawed back and he punched the coon. But it wasn't a coon. It was a lynx. We call him souped up wild cats and the can And then Jerry says, that thing attacked John up in the top of that tree. Jerry often purposefully mispronounced words, as was the custom of the people in his region. What's the matter with John? Knock him out? John? The things killing me? And John knew that. Mr Barron told her the pistol it is about to shoot snakes with. And he kept holing, who shoot this thing? Have mercy? This thing killing me? Shoot this thing? And Mr Barron said, John, I can't shoot up in now, I might hit you. John said, well, just shoot up in here amongst us, one of us got the house from relief. M Jerry's colorful sound effects, the details about the dogs, the surprise of the wild cat in the tree, and the absolute distress of John fighting that lynx created an unforgettable story. Now, something I don't have the answer to is why Jerry called it a lynx, which is a northern cat that never ranged into the American South ever, kind of like the black panther. Anyway, you gotta listen to the whole story. You can search for it online and it's called a coon hunting story. And Jerry's comedy skits, he he had multiple, multiple skits that talked about coon hunting and multiple skits that talked about quail hunting. Was he was he a big hunter or was he was that just kind of a part of his his background that he was part of It was part of his background. He was big quail hunter, big coon hunter, big fisherman. I had headed to him Comb one day and I passed by his house and he was standing at his mailbox, and I turned and went back. I said, Jerry, what in the world you doing standing out you in this heat? He was wiping his forehead with the hankers for your sweating. And I said, Man, it's hot out here. What you do in this heat? He said, Well, John, I'm gonna tell you the truth. He said, Bass Pro Shop in Jackson, Mississippi, call me and wanted me to come up there and pick out something on the showroom floor. Said there was one stipulation. I said, what was that, Jerry? He said it had to be a bass boat. So he said, I went up picked me out a bass boat, and they on their way down here and now to deliver it. And I was afraid that if they missed my driveway and wound up over at your house, I'd have trouble getting my boat back. Darn were the coon dogs that Jerry talked about? Where they real coon dogs that he had? Bromy and high Ball? And now the man that actually owned high Ball lived about a mouth across his pasture. He owned Highball, and uh he was uh a dog was known all over the country. Back when that dog was living. Most folks might not could have told you who to share for the county was. They might not knew who the tax successor was, but they knew about high Ball. Now what kind of dog was high Ball? I think high Ball was a red bone hound. I believe. But there were several other dogs that had some notoriety too. One of them was Rowdy that was owned by my uncle. But uh old Spot and Bromy. But back there in that particular time of history in our community, that was a big source of recreation and they coon hunted and the dogs for hides. Right right setting pass some hides and you probably heard there is talk about flagging. The conductor down on the train asked him did he want to buy some possum hatch possum meat? That's what he asked. If he wanted to buy a possum to eat? Yeah, he flags him. He flags down, the conductor of the train stops the train. The conductor gets out and says, what kind of catastrophe has happened that you've stopped the train? And the guy says, well, I just wondered if you wanted to buy a possum from us, And the conductor said, are you crazy? You stop the train just to ask us if we wanted to buy a possum And the guy said yeah. And then the conductor goes, well, it's crazy that you've done this, but since you have, I like possum, so how much you want for the possum. And then and then he said, man said, you idiot. Do you mean to tell me that you have done stopped a hundred car banana train seeing if we wanted to buy a possum. You must be an idiot. But I like possum and int as much as we have stopped. What do you want for? Marcelle said, we ain't caught him yet. I just want to see if you want he want. Jerry's stories were a combination of fact and fiction, but some of the stories were entirely true. This story is titled Marcel's Talking Chainsaw. It's on the Greatest Hits album. So this is a this is a story. This is one of Jerry Clower's bits that he told over and it was one of his more famous pieces. Yeah, tell me where he got that? The real story behind that one. Marcelle had been to the puckwood Yard and he come back by the beer joint and he wanted to get him one of the big knee high billy washers and the moon high. And he went to the front door and knocked on the door, and the man what running the beer joints? Said, boy, get away from that door, said you ain't got no bedness send you. And Marshall told him, said, well, I ain't onna calls no trouble, said, I just want a big soda pop and a moon pie. Now why did he run them him off? Because this is a real story. This is the shell wasn't old enough to go in there. Okay, He told him to get away from that door. Marcel went back, truck, pulled out that my color chainsaw, fired it up and come back and stuck it snout of it in that door, and it ripped that brace and bracket and the hinges off the door, and that screen tangled up through that chain as it went around that bar. And folks, give marcella beer joint. And that happened. That that happens. It's like that. That happened just before you crossed the amy A County line. That beer joint was right there on the lift. So Jerry just told the story pretty much like it happened. That's right, except for the brand of the chainsaw. Tell me, how didn't he did not? I don't think he remembered what the brand of the chainsaw was. But mcculor was the first name that came to his mind, and he said my color. And when he did, it's like he told me, said, man, folks started buying mcculor chain saw. Didn't even know how to crank him. You know what's so funny about that? And so I was born in the nineteen seventy nine. The first chain I remember my dad having would have been in the mid eighties, and it was a mccaullaugh chainsas, which I don't even think mccaulluugh's business. I don't think that you told me mccullus sent Because of that skit and how big it was, McCullough sent some chainsaws to the family and kind of helped him out some Follhilers and gold carts. I believe it was probably Daring sent it to Jerry clod thanks for plugging mccullor chainsaws. But Jerry could advertise. At one time he was spokesperson for Christler Corporation. I think at one time he was spokesperson for Lincoln. But man that the promotional items that companies would give him, just hoping it would make it into one of his stories. He cared a lot of weight. He just he was influential wherever he went. Mr John remembered a funny story about Jerry. Jerry was always pulling pranks. He was a prankster. But he pulled up at church one Sunday morning. He was the first one there, and I got there just within a minute or so after he did it, and he got out of his car and he made a quick dash for the church steps. I knew then, and knowing Jerry like I did, I knew that he was up to something. And he had on his bright red coat and his designer jeans, and he ran up to the church steps and he put his foot up on next to the bottom step, and he pulled his riches leg up above his cowboy boot so I would be sure and see the new boots that he had on. But I walked right by him. I didn't shake hands with him, I didn't speak, didn't say good morning, Jerry, how you doing. I never acknowledged that he was there, walked right past him. And he ran up behind me and grabbed me around the neck and he said, John, you know you've seen them boots. You're just jealous because you ain't got a pair like him. I want to discuss with Brent Jerry's impact on the South. What do you think that impact of Jerry Clower was on the people of the South, you know, because he kind of rose up from the ashes in a sense of poverty and unlikely character. I mean, became famous when he was in his forties. He was a fertilizer salesman. Yeah, and he became he became famous in his forties, which is highly unusual. I mean usually by that time people are kind of their trajectory is semi set. And he until he passes away when he was seventy one, he just has this incredible career, becomes a member of the Grand Old Opery Rights, multiple books, records, multiple records, has number one hits on country radio, which he wasn't even music, but they were playing his his skits on the radio, and his his style, his mannerisms. They were very familiar to people in the South, but very unfamiliar to Oh is that funny? Could that be? On the national stage of comedy. What do you think the impact of Jerry Clower was on the South? I can relate, you know. We talked about Wilson Rawls, you know, and I told you about I could relate to Billy in the story. But the tales that Jerry Clower put himself in. Some of it based on truth and some of it just played up because he had a great imagination. But I could identify with that. It was to the point to where when we saw I saw him on television he would host a country music show that came on on Sunday afternoons. It was beyond my comprehension that somebody in my family didn't know him, because the stories that he told were stories that I could identify with. As far as how he grew up our bird hunting, you know, having a dog that you know try and coons. He talked about that, and shelling peas and mules, and going barefooted, and being hot and being so hot that in the summertime that you wouldn't button up the sides on your overalls, and eating eating so much bold ochre that he couldn't keep the socks exactly. These were all things that talked about I had either done or scene done. I mean, it was just you weren't seeing that anywhere else. So you're this kid being raised in southern Arkansas, which I will note, even for the South, there are different kind of cultures inside the South. Like I'm from the South, being from Arkansas, but we lived in the highlands, which is quite different in you know, where you grew up in southeastern Arkansas, where Jerry Clowd lived from, you would have basically been the same agriculture, same influence of the river Bottoms Delta, and just a couple hours away. Really yeah, he just lived on the other side of the Mississippi River. Yeah, so you would have had even probably a stronger connection to some of that than a lot of people. I would hear stories, you know, we would hear the funny stories, and then my dad would tell one and it would have the same type. Characters are the same. He would talk about a wagon, you know, Jay Clara might tell a story about riding the town in a wagon, and then my dad would tell a story about him riding in a wagon. So it was easy to transfer, you know, my kinship, I guess to the stuff that he was talking about, regardless of the subject. And you know, like I said, a lot of that stuff he was making up, but it all, it all went back to the stories I've heard all my life and the things that I had witnessed with my own eyes. And you know what I think it did is I think it validated poor poverty stricken people in the South. Because you think about the media of that time, the country music scene would have been focused in some ways on the South. I mean not entirely, but there have been famous people, you know, Dolly Partoner and Loretta Lynn and all these people, but the mainstream influencers of the time certainly would not have been from you know, a guy like Jerry Clower. And so for him to rise up and to tell our stories, you know, quote unquote our stories talking about our people, and him being so funny and so likable, you know, you wouldn't listen to Jerry Clower and just instinctively say this man is intelligent, but highly intelligent man, and and that made us that that validated us. I read I read an article one time talking about Jerry Cloud that when he was on the Grand Old Offering, he was of all the folks on there wearing overalls and and playing music and talking about being from the country. He was the only guy on there that had a degree in agriculture to every member of the Grand Old Offery, so he had grown up living. He lived what he portrayed, you know, I mean it was I think you can see it's easy to see truth in that and that it will connect with somebody, even though you may not know his background, but you can tell when someone is genuine. And it all kept it off when I got to meet him in person. But he was a genuine person. And what you saw on television and what I saw on television, now what I listened to on radio, that was it was him. Speaking of Jerry's college education, he started off at a community college but ended up playing football at Mississippi State. Jerry was a pretty big old boy, Jerry said. The first college football game he ever went to in his life he played in it is that right? So he he played for? What school? Did he play for down here? I think Jerry went to UH. I don't know if he went to Southwest Junior College, but he went to Mississippi State. But but when he went to high school, yeah, we had consolidated high school. Did they have a football team here? I don't think they did? So he how did that work? Because that's what I thought. I thought he didn't play high school football, but he ended up in college football just he was just that good of an athlete that he just went and tried out for the football team having never played and made it played for Mississippi State. I'll be done. In Jerry's humor. You'll often hear sports analogies used. I want to dig deeper into jerry He's humor and why it was funny. First of all, he would start off with an intriguing story that you know that had to have happened or been made up or partials of both of those things connected. And he would give an inordinate amount of detail, usually in the beginning, like he would say yeah, he would tell, he would give his address and say, I'm from East Fork, Mississippi, a hundred and sixty five miles from Baton Rouge. I mean, just give you all this, and you're you're just intrigued because of the tone of his voice and the ways describing it. But you're just like, you have no idea why this is relevant, but you're like doing geography in your head, you know, like figuring out where he's at. And then he starts talking. Then he you know, I've heard it said that comedy. The more specific you can be inside of comedy, the funnier it is, the more you can relate to it. And so he just gives these random details all over it and then his accent was just I listened to it today and it's it's almost an artifact. You know, he's he's been gone about twenty four years, Jerry Clowder has he died, and so you know, his accent in the way that he structured his sentences very unique and probably unique even to that part of Mississippi. When you listen back to it, you hear sentence structures and completely improper usage of words, but that made perfect sense to them and was correct. And so the accent was intriguing. The details were intriguing, The hooks were perfect, the names and the stories and the places where he over exaggerated stuff that you knew he was over exaggerating would be super funny. But he often too hitted country people against city people sometimes and usually the guy from the country would not always end up looking to be the smartest, but he was usually right. And it was usually the hook and that or the at home or however you the phrase would be, is that guy used common sense. The country guy used common sense above you know, a college degree or something. You know. It was like, um, I've always kind of parried it with like the Andy Griffith Show, a show that I have seen all of them hundreds of times and they never get older. Me. Those stories when I hear Jerry Clouds, they never even I know, I know the punch lines coming, I know what's fixing to happen. I could do his whole act myself, just about you know. But they're still funny. And I think it's it's probably a mixture of nostalgia of listening to it and thinking back, you know, with me and my dad was down on the pot Leitch road, the Timber Company road, waiting for the dogs to trike the last time I heard that, or one time that I heard this story, And so there's it's just there's just a lot of meat in it. It's just a lot of good, wholesome storytelling. So there's a book written by Jerry Clower called Stories from Home, and what it is it's an interview. It's a transcribed interview that they did with Jerry Clower, and he talked about a intentional decision that he made when he got into comedy to keep it clean. And there were people in Hollywood that advised him like, hey, you're gonna have to be more risk a if you want to be successful in this sphere. And he just he said he didn't believe him, and he he made that decision that he was gonna he was gonna try to keep it in bounds, you know. And he he teetered on the edge sometimes of you know, jokes that might not be appropriate for kids. Every now and then he'd say something that would kind of be, you know, on the edge. But but it was always like, you know, stuff you would let your kids listen to. Now, I respected him for having, uh, just having a value system that he stuck to his whole life. You know. I can't speak enough about Jerry's character. I'm impressed by stuff like that. And in the book Stories from Home, Jerry said, quote, I stayed with m c A Records and got to where I liked it. At first, they said, Jerry, unless you put a little risk a or vulgar stuff on your records, you ain't never gonna be known nationally. But I defied them. I have never used risk a material end of quote. I've read about his positions on race relations in the South and and kind of his story with that. He was really ahead of his time. He was in a pretty pretty profound way. He was What do you think about that? Jerry was as I said, he was a devout Christian. He readd every word of the Bible to be true, and he accepted the fact that God accepted everybody, regardless of race or anything else. And Jerry was ahead of his time back then, because a lot of people were pretty objective to integrate. You didn't want to mangle with black people, and for whatever reason, did not associate with him that much. But Jerry did and he respected everybody. And I think that's why everybody respected him, because he didn't cut any ice with anybody. Race color didn't mean anything to him. He loved everybody. Jerry's ideas on race grew over time, which speaks to his ability to change. In his book, he said he grew up with some of the stereotypical mind frames of the time, but when he came back from the war, he said this quote, after I became a Christian, my convictions got to pricking my conscience. I would have to compromise my Christian convictions if I believe some of the things that I had been taught as a child. End of quote. Here's another story. It's in reference to the nineteen sixty three bombing of the sixteenth Street Baptist Church, a black church by the KKK. Jerry said, quote, I was in Birmingham selling for Dalizer after they bombed that church. They bombed and killed three precious little black children. The following Monday, I was driving through Birmingham and I had the radio on and this guy was a disc jockey and he was black, and he was trying to rally all the black children. He said, just say, I'm somebody. I stopped at a red light by a school bus and a little black boy was looking out the window at me. I let the window down and I said, I know you are somebody's son. And if I could get this scoundrel that bombed you just because you're black, I would end of quote. I think this shows Jerry's heart. He also had a famous quote where he said, it's still a mystery to me how godly people can tie their income, give to the poor, read the Bible, pray, love folks, and let God run every fiber of their being, except how they treat black people. End of quote. That was big stuff coming from a white comedian in the South in the nineteen seventies. It was Jerry's connection to place that made his words carry weight. He grew up in segregation, and his ideas on race relations changed after he was an adult. As we closed down, I want to explore the power of place. Well, what I learned from where the Red Fern grows from Sean Tutan literature expert, that connection to place, it's really intriguing to people, even if they're not connected to that place. So seeing Billy Coleman's connection to the Ozarks in a genuine way was intriguing because you could look through his eyes and see that landscape and his life in the shapes of his life, and if even if it's different from you and you've never been there and never gonna go there. I think that's what they did with Jerry Cloud too, is that they saw the rural, poverty stricken South in a lovable, nice way. They probably already had that image of it. You know, you look back at cartoons and held billies and they're you know, wearing one strap overalls and they're barefoot, and they've got those crazy looking hats and smoking a corn cob pipe and and all of that. So they saw that, they saw that part of it immediately. And but then he puts those very vivid stories about the characters in there, and they're good people then maybe dressed that way, but there's there's always a redeeming quality about most of them, ye know so, And you can identify that with whether you get to be there or get to be there or not. Here's John with a couple more stories about Jerry. I know one time I went over to jails and I took my coon dog. He followed me over. I went over on the horse. We got in jail yard and a rabbit, a big rabbit, run out of one of his home lane Flyer Bay It's and my dog took off a treatment. He had a real deep bow. Oh you could hear him on my way. Who who who? He was just barking trailing that rabbit and they was going in flower beds and out and Jake and I was holding it the dog, trying to stop him because I I knew Miss Homeling didn't want that dog in the yard. And about that time Jerry come to the door. Jerry Hollard, what are you doing? I said, I'm trying to catch his dad gum dog. I said, don't you hear him? He said, yeah, I do. He said, man, leave a dog alone. He said, anything got a voice like that ought to be singing in the church choir. Jerry came over one time. I forgot what the occasion was, but he at the time we had a circle driver. He pulled up in his car and he got out, and he had on a pair of sandals, and he had on a pair of cutoff pants and a real loud color how Walia type shirt. That coon dog of mine looked up and seeing Jerry, and he done like his shin. He twisted his head all that thing was, and he went and got under my pickup truck and wouldn't come out. And I told Jerry that we was gonna have to go down to Liberty and talk with my attorney because he had Runt, the best potential young dog he ever had, and that if he wanted to settle this out of court, we could. He was gonna have to promise me some puppish off the next jip, and he knew it was gonna drop a litter of puppish. But I mean, we was off time pulling stuff like that. What Jerry say when he told him about the litigation, he laved, he laughed. Jerry toured right up until his passing in n and had plans for more records. He gathered his content from people in his community and Mr John, his neighbor, told him a story that Jerry was very intrigued by. He even told him that he was gonna put it on his next record. Unfortunately, Jerry never made that record, and we'll never hear Jerry tell the story, but we can hear it from Mr John, and if you listen, I think you can hear Jerry's voice telling it. One of those was a fellow that lived here in the community. He was a lot older than Jerry. He he lived to be I guess on up in his late nineties. But as he began to get older, he reached the poet in life where his family encouraged him to go ahead and buy him a car. You know, he'd have his own transportation. He could get out and go. He didn't have to get nobody to take him where he wanted to go. He'd have his own wheels. So he bought him a sixty two Chevrolet Biscayne, and he got him some driver's license. But he could get out and go where he wanted to. But they knew he was gonna have to have a tag car. Tag in some insurance and that they would have trouble getting him to differentiate between the liability and the collision, the comprehension and all that. He just wouldn't understand it, and he would create an argument because he felt like it he didn't need all that junk if it was his car. They just told him said, well, Uncle Tom said, if you've got insurance and you ever involved in an accident, the insurance will buy you another car. That was just a simple way to get him understand and bypassed the comprehension, the liability, collision and everything else through the Guard Automobile insurance. So he went to town every Saturday morning, but a stop sign didn't mean nothing to him because he had always went in that direction and he felt like people ought to respect him because that was the road he had always traveled and he wasn't gonna stop for nobody. So it happened he ran stop signed one Saturday morning and a fella from Baton Rouge running to him, hit him, turned his car bottom side up, told Uncle Tom I wanted didn't kill him, so they called the law. He wouldn't. He wouldn't go to the hospital in the amlets. He just set by his car, and the state trooper came out and investigated the accidental. He knew Uncle Tom, and he just didn't know how he was gonna get across to him that he was in the fault. So he went up to him and he said. Uncle Tom said, uh, I've investigated the accident, and said it's pretty conclusive as to what happened. And he said, I'd like to have your version of what happened here. Uncle Tom said, well, I said, I was headed over to my comb. We're gonna get me a hair cut, gonna get some groceries, and said, I come down this road all time, everybody knows it. And then this idiot from Baton Rouge comes flying through him and he hits me, tears my car up, and so that's what happened in the state trooper said he didn't know how he was gonna explain that to Uncle Tom, but he said. Uncle Tom said, I'm gonna I'm gonna have to tell you now. I said, uh, I've investigated accident. He said, uh, it's my dea to inform you, and I'm gonna have to give you a citation. And Uncle Tom said, well, son, I appreciated it. Mighty nice of you know, said I don't know nothing about it. Forward said I never did like a Chrysler product, and said I ain't never rode in or drove or citation. And if it's all right what everybody was involved, I'd rather have another chival leg u But Jerry rolled when I told him. He said, that's going in my n that's going in my next album. And and that was the last night and he ever was at home to talk a long time. In the foreword of the book Stories from Home, Willie Morris says, quote, all our distinguished American humorists have been serious people, their hearts as rueful as they are married. I'm funny because I'm sad. It was attributed to Mark Twain, and I'm sad because I'm funny. Jerry Clour is an artist of deep values, values which yet exists in our civilization. Hard work, loyalty, honesty, community, family, friendship, generosity, love, and with all a vibrant aversion to the hypocritical, the bogus, and the unpitying, not to mention an instinctual distaste for cynical barber's dilatory hitchhikers, and all souls of greed. He understands the world because he assiduously lived it. End of quote. Jerry Clower was a complex and brilliant man, deeply connected to place, sure in his identity, loyal to his people, but also intolerant of his errors. He gave voice to the South and dignity to a group of people coming out of a rough time, people often misunderstood by the nation. He was deeply connected to the land as a hunter and fisherman, and attributed his time in the Coon Woods to building the fabric of his character, a throwback to the ideology that Daniel Boone's legacy ushered into the American psyche. Like I said from the beginning of our series on Where the Red Fern Grows, I'm fascinated when hunting touches pop culture and positive ways. Just like Wilson Rawls, Jerry wrapped up our way of life and put it in a human story, and people loved it. As we look to the future of hunting and rural life, I think we have a pattern here. We've got to have a deep love of the land, it's wildness and its critters, but we've also got to love the people that live from its bounty. Wildness only makes sense to people that don't know it firsthand when it's wrapped in the life of a human. So we, like Jerry, have to become better storytellers, storytellers of the human experience, because stories carry our culture. Thanks so much for listening to Bear Greefs. You can listen to all Jerry's albums on all the major streaming platforms and you're sure to get a laugh out of it. Please share our podcast with your in laws and you're crazy hill billy neighbors this week. We'll talk to you next time on the Bear Greece Render.