00:00:01 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to the Whitetail Woods, presented by First Light, creating proven versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. 00:00:19 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on the show, I'm running Bobby Kendall of the Whitetail Group through a series of very specific deer hunting scenarios to see exactly how we'd handle them. All right, Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by First Light. I'm your host, Mark Kenyan. In today, we are kicking off are what would You Do series, which is something we've done every August for the last three or four years now, I believe, And here's the basic gist of it. We put a great deer hunter through a gauntlet of very specific hunting challenges and scenarios. I will paint picture of some kind of set of circumstances and then ask this hunter how they would think about it, what they would do, and why they would do it. That is what we're gonna do today and for the rest of this month. I'm gonna tell you a little bit about our guest coming up here in just a moment. But before we do that, before we get into the meat and potatoes to today's show, I got to give you a quick couple quick updates. Number one, we have another Working for Wildlife tour event coming up here in August. So that is going to be August twelve in Missouri, just outside of Saint Louis, Missouri. We've got an event in collaboration with backcountry hunters and anglers. We're gonna get out there on some public land near the Mississippi River, I believe, and do some habitat improvement for wildlife. So, man, if you do any public land hunting, if you do any hike and fish and anything out there out on these places, you know that it's important to help steward these landscapes, protect these landscapes, make sure that they are healthy and thriving ecosystems so that the critters that we want to hunt are there and in healthy populations. And that's what we're trying to do on this tours, get out there and give back to these places that man, they give us so much. So I'm really excited to get there on August twelfth. Meet a bunch of you, hopefully. I know we have a lot of listeners in Missouri, Kansas, that whole region, so we'd love to meet some of you, share some stories, take some pictures, sign books, whatever it is, and get out there doing some good work. So August twelfth, you can learn more about this specific event on the back Country Hunters and Anglers event web page. You'll find this event listed there in their event section and you can register at that link. Then there's going to be a social storytelling event thing that goes on afterwards, so looking forward to that. I want to make sure everyone new that that's coming up. Also, we've got a sale going on with First Light and all of our brands. If you happen to be listening to this on the day that it comes out, just that day, August third, If you are listening on August third, twenty twenty three, our season opener sale is still running. So this is everything on the Mediator store, First Light, Phelps, FHF all of it up to forty percent off. There's some great swag, including the white tail rope hat that I've worn a bunch over the last year. I've gotten lots and lots and lots of questions about when that hat's going to be going on sale, Well, it is now available finally, and it's on sale. I think ten percent off is what I think I saw. Regardless. Heading over to the Mediator store or the First Light website or any one of the brand websites, you will see all the details about what's on sale. Lots of great options, including the brand new source of vest or Origin pant from First Light. I haven't talked about the Origin pant yet, but it is like a super almost feels like an incredibly comfortable jogger or sweatpant, but it is built with hunting in mind. It uses that same fabric from the Origin hoodie, which I know a lot of us use in love. But it's designed as like a transitional piece to where when you're heading out to the stand or even if it's a piece that you're using, you know, when going from deer camp to the property or whatever it is. It's a very versatile piece. I end up wearing it all the time, just a camp, scouting, hiking around in between hunts. So check that out and everything else at first Light dot com or the Mediator's store. And that is my last plug. Other than the fact that we got to talk about our guest, and our guest today is Bobby Kendall. Bobby was on the show earlier this year for the first time this spring during our Habitat month. He's one of the founders of the Whitetail Group, which is a company that is doing a whole bunch of different things, but they're most known, I think for their recreational properties that they are developing and showcasing and selling for the elite whitetail hunter. They're designing properties for the elite hunting experience, is what they say. And after watching many, many, many hours of their YouTube videos in which they break down how they would hunt properties, how they would design properties, how they would manipulate and change them, I've gotten to know Bobby's approach to hunting pretty darn well, and I'm a fan of it. I'm a fan of his detail oriented approach. I'm a fan of the way he stacks odds and weighs probabilities and tries to make really smart, thoughtful decisions. It's very much in line with how I try to approach to your hunting, and Bobby probably just does it better. So that's why I wanted to have him on the show today to really break that side of things down more because last time we mostly talked about habitat this time I want to talk primarily about hunting. And as I mentioned at the top, this is our what would you Do? Series? So what I'm going to do here Bobby is present him a specific scenario, a couple habitat and then the rest hunting, and then we're gonna have Bobby break down what he would do, how he would do it, why he would do with the things he's thinking about everything, so that we can get a very clear look inside of the brain of a tremendously successful white tail hunter. Bobby gets done year in, year out, and he does it in a way that I think a lot of folks can learn from. So that is our game plan for today. I'm excited for it. I hope you are too. Let's get to it all right, So with me on the show today, We've got Bobby Kendall. Welcome to the show, Bobby, thanks for having me again. Yeah, I'm glad to get you back today to talk deer hunting, not just deer management, not just deer land, but really dig into the hunting side of things, which I know you love the property aspect and we had a great conversation to spring on that topic. But it's almost August we're talking, and I don't know about you, but like the itch is very very strong right now to get out there and get hunted. 00:07:06 Speaker 3: It is real. 00:07:07 Speaker 2: Yes, So what I've got for you today is this thing we call the what would you do? Gauntlet? So basically what that means is, I'm gonna give you a bunch of tough, specific hypothetical situations, mostly hunting. We'll do a couple of habitat things kick things off, and basically what I need you to do is walk me through how you would handle that situation and what you're thinking. You can paint, you know, an imaginary picture if you want. If I don't give you enough details, you can add your own details to help you make your answer makes sense and we'll kind of see how you do things. So is that something you're up for? 00:07:44 Speaker 3: Yes? That sounds good. 00:07:46 Speaker 2: All right, Well, then we're just gonna get right into it in the interest of time here because the first one I've got here is related to habitat. Like I mentioned, in this scenario, I want you to imagine a situation where you have gotten access to pretty sweet property, but it's a lease, and let's say this is the only place you can hunt this year. It is going to be a situation where you have access as a lease and they're going to give you a five year term on it. So you've got some time with it. You've got time to figure it out. It's it's, you know, something you want to invest in a little bit. The situation, though, is that you are not allowed to make major habitat changes. You can't do major plantings, you can't do major cuttings. We're talking light touch kind of stuff here. In that situation, with those stipulations, what would be the two most important things that you could do to improve your hunting experience out there in this five year term? 00:08:42 Speaker 3: Okay, now, is this place in the Midwest? Yeah, like a typical farm with aag and stuff. 00:08:47 Speaker 2: Yep, we'll say this is there in Illinois. 00:08:49 Speaker 3: So you know, in the real world, my last couple of seasons I have spent on a permission piece that it was exactly a situation I couldn't do. So you know, you kind of go back to the basics, right, And that's even when you can do a bunch of happitat manipulation it it really you have to go back to the basics. Really good strategy with nothing done is better than all kinds of things done with no strategy. So you know, I guess also in this situation, have I run cameras yet? Do I know if there's a big deer there? Or am I completely at the beginning stages of it. 00:09:27 Speaker 2: Let's stay this at this point, you are in the beginning. You can do all those things, but this is like your first this is your first season out there. You've picked it up maybe in the summer, so you've got some summer scouty under your belt, and that's it. 00:09:38 Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, So the first thing I'm gonna do is I'm gonna put cameras out. Hopefully the farm isn't bean so I can really get the cameras out and start seeing things. If it's in corn, that can be tough when it's not under your control because a lot of edges get grown up and it's really hard to put cameras out in that situation. I'll wait until scrapes are popping up, and I'll walk the perimeter or the backpack of cameras and a hedge hedge trimmer, battery heads trimmer, and I'll put I'll find the scrapes, and I'll put a camera on every scrape on the edge, and I'll clear it with a hedge trimmer, is usually what I do, because you're kinda it's just kind of your button heads with nature if you're if you're trying to run cameras earlier and that a lot of times and core unless you got some pinches and stuff as far as the habitat goes, like, one of the first things I'm gonna do is ask the landowner if if can I plan any food plots, and would you mind if I talk to the farmer If you're not out any money or it doesn't affect you, would you mind if I talk to your farm tenant and to try and find out if I can buy back some crops, Because even on my own farms, I try and work with the farmer as much as possible because it's just so much easier. They do a better job. So once they do that, I'm gonna reach out to the farmer because I'm gonna want standing crops on the farm and I'm going to My strategy with that is you know, I'll be like, I'll pay you whatever it is to make you whole. And if it's corn, I'll always offer to go in there after the season and mow that corn down because that's the one thing they don't want to deal with, and that'll usually get you in the doors and maybe even offer a little bit more than what they would have got from the crop. So that I want to get my standing crops. I want to find out what deer are there right off the bat if there is nowhere to plant food plot, I'll just I'll also ask the farmer, hey, do you mind if I oversee some green into that area that you're letting me keep. And again I will by letting him know you are somewhat competent. It goes a long way. If I say, hey, can I oversee some winter rye in here? I know it's going to come up in the spring. I will come back in the spring and I'll spray it for you. Usually, you know, if you're acting that competent, they'll let you. And then or I'll ask if I can oversee Somebraskas because Nebraskas really won't come back and make too much of a mess on them. And a lot of times, I'd say more often than not, you know, you'll get something done with a farmer like that. So at that point, I you know, that address is you know, trying to figure out what deer are there and then getting some food going. 00:12:23 Speaker 2: So let's shift to a slightly different situation then if you were in a situation where you did just buy a farm, so rather than being on a lease they don't have a lot of control over, now you do have full control. You just landed a dream farm. The problem is you couldn't close until late August, so you're not able to actually set foot on this farm and do anything till let's say August twenty fifth, maybe opening day in this state. Let's say you're in Iowa, opening day is October first, so you're maybe five weeks out from opening day. In that situation, do you try to to make some kind of last minute changes, plant some food plots, pushing some you know, I don't know, pushing a creek crossing, do any cuttings anything like that, or is it too late? And at this point you just want to play it very very light touch, just hunt it and wait till the next season to do any kind of real work. 00:13:22 Speaker 3: So a lot of times, backing up from that, I've negotiated in in the front side the right for early access to prep and stuff. So a lot sometimes I will be at that point, but I'll have I'll have a little bit more time. But if I don't, I'll still go to the farmers because that you know that that that'll work, that whole conversation will work right up until the harvest. So I'd still do that, you know, And and both situations as far as like habitat work and stuff like, I wouldn't worry about that all because I just hunt the way the farm in a way I wasn't putting pressure on it, because that's the number one thing. Nothing works with None of the habitat stuff works without without a strategy as far as your presence and pressure. So so yeah, you know, I don't think i'd be going in and doing crete crossings and that type of thing, but I'd be getting my cameras out figuring what's out there. I'd be trying to figure out the farmers who what they would let me, what I could do with them. And it just depends, you know, if you got if you're going in that late and it's you got some cattle pasture or something that was prepped and it was mowed down, you know, down pretty good. You could spray it, no till it or you know, spray it and work it up in a week or two, a couple of weeks, and and so it would kind of depend on the situation, I guess, but you know, I just I would I think the big things would be working with the farmer to try and get some some last minute crops and and finding out what's there quick. There's a lot of. 00:14:59 Speaker 2: Change that time of year, you know, yep, but nothing major. You wouldn't be bringing in the dozers. You wouldn't be uh trying to change the world overnight. 00:15:09 Speaker 3: Well, you know in my situation, because I have like a business that has all that, and I could go in and hit it hot, like I may do that because yeah, you know, I do not think that that heavy equipment affects deer like you would think it is. Like I would think going in there and tiptoeing around and scouting and stuff would have more impact than bringing a bulldozer there and clearing a one boot bot. The only reason I say that is because I've seen it a hundred times when I leave a camera out and I've got guys walking back and forth with chainsaws and skitterers going by all day and then boom, here comes a five plus year old deer in daylight by the same camera. It's like, the is the craziest thing. And I've seen that over and over and over again. 00:15:58 Speaker 2: They really get used to that farm equipment kind of pressure. Doesn't even nearly as concerned of that. 00:16:04 Speaker 3: Yeah, So as far, I guess maybe the root of your question is do you think it would affect the deer that you're gonna hunt? And I do not think that it would, especially if it's a big maturitier, because a big maturitier spent his whole life there, and it's it's harder than people think to to run a deer like that out of their core. 00:16:23 Speaker 2: Right there for a reason. 00:16:25 Speaker 3: Good example, here's a great example. I got a farm this year that I'm hunting permission with a friend of mine that bought it, and he was like, you know, go over there, you know, see what you think needs done or whatever. And there's there's one spot that I feel like would greatly bring him to bow range. And I said, I'll go up there with the skids deer, and I'll just I'll push out a plot and I might even plant it the same day I'm in there with the skids deer. So yeah, I would do that type of thing. I don't think it would hurt your hunting, is what I'm saying. 00:17:00 Speaker 2: Is there a cut off date? Would there be any date that'd be too late to do something like that? Like if I changed the date to September fifteenth or something that works shape. 00:17:10 Speaker 3: Now, I probably wouldn't want to do it anymore once we got like within maybe a week or five days of the season. And it depends is if it's a one day going there heavy hit it and do it all in a day, or if it's a week long, drawn out thing. That'd be two different things. But what I wouldn't want to do is do it so close to the season that I might push him to the neighbor for a few days and then have him kill him. 00:17:39 Speaker 2: Yep, I fellow, Okay, one last habitat question here in this one, I'm going to send you to New York. So right where you are, right now, right upstate New York. I think, let's say you've got is a food plot question. And we're going to imagine two different versions of this food plot question. One of them will be a situation in which you do own the land and you can make big changes. One of these is a situation where you do not own the land and you can't make major changes. So the CIN scenario is this, You've got access to this big property, relatively big. We'll say. Let me take you back the word big. We're gonna say it's one hundred and twenty acre farm. Some people consider that big. Some people do not consider that big. It is mostly timber, swamp timber mixed kind of situation of which there's one opening on the side of it. So you've got an eight acre rectangular field that is surrounded by the rest of this swampy timber. Okay, that eight acre field, like I mentioned, is planted in some you know, agricultural food source. The situation is this, there is a big, giant buck that you have noticed that's coming in and out of this big chunk of timber. Let's say you know that from history. The problem here, though, is that because of how large this food sources, and because of the kind of terrain features and whatnot, there's no real rhyme or reason, at least not a consistent rhyme or reason to how this buck is entering or exiting this field. What would you do to try to make a large food source hunt setup like that work better given this scenario, Option A is first, let's talk about you can't replant it, you can't change the shape of it, you can't cut a bunch of trees down around, so you have to kind of do some light touch things on this. And then option B would be the full white tail group. You know, arsenal is at your disposal to re design this setup. So there's your situation. How big is the field that's eight acres. 00:19:41 Speaker 3: Rectangle rectangle, and is it what's playing in that? 00:19:47 Speaker 2: Let's yeah, let's say it's let's say it's beans. Because I want something that's like not providing a lot of cover. I want to open big open fields. We'll say it's beans right now as the as it stands right now. So in the situation where you don't own it, some farmer plan those beans. In the situation where you do onw it, you can change it to whatever you want. 00:20:06 Speaker 3: Yeah, So first thing, I look at access and dominant winds, and I would just really quickly be like, I want to be in this area of the field, right, and then I'd go to that area and I'd try and find an huntable tree, and then I would if I am I allowed to oversee do I got to talk to the farmer again. 00:20:25 Speaker 2: You can talk to the farmer, yeah. 00:20:27 Speaker 3: So I would. I would be like, hey, man, would you mind if I overseeded some braska is in here? They won't. I mean, most of them understand cover cropping and understands a good thing. So let's say he lets me do that, and we do this. Well, that's the next question of the develop farms. But I'm gonna set my stand and then I'm gonna overseed within bow range, ingreen of rye and turn ups, keep it super simple. And then I'm gonna go around and I'm going to cut every scrape branch off of that tree three except for the ones that are in bow range. So I'm gonna just do everything and I can possibly do to make that deer, you know, come there to me, depending on how wide the field is. If it's rectangle, you know. I mean back in the day, I remember literally taking dead falls with my golf cart and like leaning over so I don't touch the ground, and I'm not this crazy anymore because I don't think that you need to be. But and like literally like hooking onto a dead ball and skidding it out in the plot and laying this like dead stick out there, you know, ten twenty twenty feet just something that they'll walk around. So like it can be that primitive because you can manipulate like super primitively or easily. But those two things there are gonna if you up your odds, You're gonna up your odds that a doe is going to be in front of you because of the green, which ups your odds at a buck's gonna be there. And if you eliminate scrape branches, you're gonna up your odds that if it's October and he's going to go to a scrape, but he's obviously going to go to you. And at the same time, you're going to make that scrape more powerful because it's going to get more set and it's just gonna snowball. 00:22:13 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:22:26 Speaker 2: Now, real quick clarifying question. You talked about the overseaing thing quite a lot. Can you just give a little bit more detail on when you want to do that? With beans versus when you'd want to do that with corn. 00:22:39 Speaker 3: Yeah, so beans, you want to do when the leaves are yellowing. As soon as they start to yellow. You want to get that seed onto the ground before the leaves drop, so that a bunch of the seed doesn't lay on top of the leaves. Some of them will be covered. But I'll usually double the rate if you want to really do it right, I'd put two bags awry per and probably you know, eight or ten pounds of turnips, pretty heavy. And sometimes I'll literally just whatever I got left over from food plas sas and oats and rye and turnips and rash and rape and what. I'll just put it all out there because some of it doesn't have as good as seed to soil. But you've got the leftover seed and some of it's going to grow. So the heaver you put it on, you know, the better. You've got to count that some of them aren't going to germinate because of the because of the leaves falling on and stuff. But it's awesome if you've never done it. I mean, you get a carpet of green again, probability and stuff. All of deer hunting to me is like probability in math. In order to get an acre of green and an acre of beans, you end up with two acres, which says it's just harder to hunt because it's bigger. But when you put it in the same spot, your chances are fifty percent better technically, I mean, there's a lot more to it than that. 00:23:56 Speaker 2: But sure, what about the corn situation, when would you put on the corn? 00:24:02 Speaker 3: You know, so the corn is kind of the same deal. You want it to be browning down. Corn works really well, like if you're planning it yourself, if you can, if you know you're gonna overseed or at least overseed an area, if you can run those corn rows north and south, the sun will get in them better and you'll get your better germination. So and with a corn you use a leaf blower, spread spreader. You know, it's kind of a pain, but it's worth it. And you know the other thing about corn, and this is kind of getting away from that situation, but a lot of times I'll go in in a mow my first quarter acre area, like September twenty fifth, and then that puts corn on the ground in front for opening week. But it also is early enough that same day I'll overseaed it and then i'll get the carpet of green and the corn there, and that's like the hub. And then I'll just start mowing as the season, I'll I'll mow a little more, a little more, and a big tip on that corn is when you after I get done mowing it, Let's say for the first time in the quarter acre, I'll drive through the corn. I'll lift my mower up. I don't want to sling corn anymore. I'll drive out of the corn in a couple of directions where I think he's gonna come from. But I'll make that road when it comes into the corn like. I won't make it come straight at me, because then when he walks in the field and puts his head down he's eating, he's gonna be looking straight down, you know, or he's gonna be not broadside. So even if I got to have it come in and then loop a little bit or something and come in from the side, or jay it at the last second, I'll shape it to where when he walks in and he's in bow range his broadside and not mow it, you know what I mean? 00:25:47 Speaker 2: Yeah, yep, Okay, let's shift more into two hunting stuff here. From this situation, Let's imagine we're approaching the time frame now where you've got, you know, let's say we're September and all your work has done across all your properties, you know, leading in the hunting season. You're set, Your plots are planted, your box blinds are up, your tree stands are hung, cameras are set wherever you want them. You're just kind of monitoring and waiting for opening day. Then all of a sudden, a new mega giant shows up like a It would be your biggest buck ever. It'll be two hundred and twenty inches in your you know, eyeball estimation. You're very excited to see this buck pop up. He's popped up on a smaller one of your properties, and you have no history with him, random buck, but he's like showing up. It's not like a one time thing. He's kind of popping up here and there. You've got a little time leading to the season now, and all of a sudden you're realizing, holy smokes, this is the deer that I want. What do you do in that type of situation to go from zero to sixty and trying to put together a plan and kind of tighten the noose on this deer that is brand new, very exciting. How you gon lear in the situation quickly. 00:27:02 Speaker 3: I'm gonna go over there with a lot of cell camps and I'm gonna load that place up. I'm gonna take one day. I'm gonna go over there in my tractor preferably if not tractor ranger. I'm gonna bomb around everywhere, you know, because if I'm gonna anticipate that, I'm gonna run them out of there. But that's okay. The way I'm gonna run them out of there is a lot better than just like slipping around everywhere. And if I got to slip around, it's fine. You know. Sometimes I'll even get on the phone or something something like, you know, just obnoxiously not a threatening something sneaking up on them, which is what they're wired to defend against. You know, I'm gonna load it up with cameras. I'm gonna put cameras in places that I anticipate that. But if it's September, you know, I'm gonna obviously be trying to put a camera on every single scrape. If it is, uh, kind of backing up this in my not be this situation, but in the whenever. Obviously the best scouting time is in the winter before green up. Whenever I'm on a farm that time of year and I find scrapes, I'm pinning them. It's like I call it like a scrape mat. I mean, it does not make sense that time of year. You might not even know the deer, you might not have history on it. But the following year having those can like be a complete game changer and all of a sudden make total sense. So if I know where any of those scrapes are gonna pop up, I'm gonna put cameras out there if there's if there's spots that I anticipate, I wouldn't put a camera necessarily in September, but I would, you know, in October a little later, I might put one there. I'm just gonna try and do everything I can think that I might have to do in one day in one shot. I'm gonna bring you know, some stands, you know, I'm gonna hang them in some obvious spots, and I'm just gonna try and hit it hard one day and then wait and see what happens. 00:29:00 Speaker 2: I like it. So, okay, you've laid out the groundwork for this situation then, and let's let's kind of continue down this imaginary path. Let's say you did this day of scouting, this this heavy duty day a laying everything out there, getting all your cameras, getting your stands out, all that kind of stuff. Now I want to talk about picking your shots. And I'll preface this situation by saying I've got a magic X question for you. So before answering the question, you know, give folks a reminder of what your magic X theory is and then walk me through how you would apply that. So let's let's imagine this scenario. Let's imagine that you have a different job than you have now, and so you are in a nine to five kind of career, so you don't have a lot of time to get flexible with and so in this situation, you usually just have a week of vacation to really use for your hardcore hunt. And that's usually a rut hunt. It's usually going to be that first week of November, let's say, So that's when you took your week of vacation. So you've got this mega giant you're after, You've got a week of vacation scheduled to get after him. You're getting closer to that time period. You're monitoring all these different things, the weather, your cameras, whatnot. You see in the long term forecast that your scheduled week is looking like it's going to be pretty warm. It's not looking ideal. But at the same time, right now, in late October, let's say like October, I don't know, twenties, low twenties, You've got a Magic X day coming up. So in this situation, do you cancel your vacation and scramble things at work to move your vacation up a week and a half so you can hunt the magic X in late October? Or do you know that you know the rut's the rut, and I got to make it happen here, you know, with my planned vacation. What's more important the rut in November or that Magic X day that's coming up in the early twenties. 00:31:01 Speaker 3: There's so much to talk about here, So there's two there's two paths to answer that question. If it's a guy who is just going hunting, like he's just he's not fanatic, he's not running camera, he's not doing boo pot. He doesn't have target deer, he's just going and hunting. If it's that guy, you want to you want to be going, probably in the rut, because all that stuff kind of goes out the window when I say rut. That's another term that starts in September, and that's what the whole quarter of the year is. So, but that time of the rut where you're most likely to see a deer, it's just that it's the most predictable, that's the most unpredictable. It's it's the easiest to just go out and pick a spot and sit there and possibly shoot a nice dear if you are in tune with it, and you're paying and you're following a deer and your and your GOP you know, cameras out and you know what a deer is doing. Hands down, there's not even a comparison that you would be better off in October. And if I haven't gotten my target deer killed by you know, November first or second, I just man, I just I got to get mentally strong, because I just get it's just so frustrating in the rut. I've killed a lot of big deer in that first ten days, but it just gets more frustrating. So yeah, in October, so magic X day. So I use the the Weather Underground. I'll show you he real quick, maybe on the phone so people can understand it a little bit better. But I use the Weather Underground, not the app, but I use the the website on the phone, and then I anchor it to my homepage and I'm trying to pull it up here. But it just shows a really big display and any app that shows the pressure line will work, but it just shows it really really nice and big and clear. But essentially what the magic X is. And it's more pronounced that time of year than it is in the summer. But when you have a high pressure front come in, you'll see the black line on that app particularly, but that's the high pressure and it'll look like that. And then at the same time you have temperatures dropping, so the temperature line is dropping, you know, humidity is usually dropping, cloud cover is dropping, so it literally kind of makes an X on the graph and you can see it instantly. And those days in October they trump everything. I mean, you know, if you have a big deer on camera and it's not just late October. It becomes more powerful in late October. But whenever it whenever it happens is really good. Like I think two years ago it was a really good stretch like October sixteenth to the nineteenth, and then within the last couple of years there was a really good stretch like the sixth to the tenth or something like that. It doesn't really matter. But you know, there's all these different things that affect deer movement, and when you line them all up, like their mindset in the end of October, they're just so much more rambunctious and rammy. So if you get a magic X day in the end of October, yeah, it's better. But I would take a magic X day high pressure front in the beginning of October. I'd be more excited to go to the woods on that day than I would on a mediocre day in the end of October. So those those high pressure fronts are key in October. If you are watching a deer and you know what he's doing, I mean it is so I mean, it's it's it feels like it's the code, you know what I mean, Like unpressured deer doing what deer should do. He's going to be out marking territory and hitting scrapes in October on those nights. 00:35:10 Speaker 2: You know, So what about another weather scenario in which we get the opposite situation. Let's say it's opening day. So I don't know how you feel, but I feel really great on opening day. I'm very excited, the deer been unpressured. I always feel like that's a really exceptional opportunity. I like to take big swings on opening day if it's smart to do so. But let's say Opening Day coincides with the opposite of a magic X day. Let's say it's going to be like seventy six and a low barometer in southeast winds and a dark moon. In that situation, are you still going to take a big swing at your target buck on opening day because it's opening day? Or are you playing it very differently? What would you do? 00:35:54 Speaker 3: No, I'll probably got to go home because it's opening day. But I'm definitely not going to do anything too aggressive. I'm probably not gonna bomb in where he's been at night. You know, I just you know, I I used to hunt every single day, no matter what, and now I'm just those days are so powerful that it's just not worth. It's you're gonna do more harm than good most of the time, you know, by bombing in there too early on the days that aren't good. 00:36:26 Speaker 2: You know, do you hunt even in his area or do you completely leave that property alone, hunt somewhere else and just try to kill a dough or something. 00:36:36 Speaker 3: If I was gonnahunt his area, I'd probably hunt somewhere where I could see a long way and just maybe maybe see if I could see him. But you know, it depends that. There can in Illinois, and this changes everywhere you're at, but there can be, like it seems like, and this is kind of like a gut feeling, it does seem like an Illinois there can be like a one two three day window in the very October first where they where they can still move on warmer days because they're more in that summer mindset. But it changes very quickly, you know. I'd say by the fourth or fifth or sixth, it's kind of that game's kind of over. So yeah, you know, if obviously, if my cameras are still telling me the day before, in the two days before that that he's out there in daylight and on warm days, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna go in there and get after after him. You know. But and that's a point I like to make, like out of a friend last year who had this giant deer and he's like, I'm like, what are you doing. He's like, he's coming out here and he's crossing the road and everybody's seeing him, and I'm like, what are you doing. He's like, well, I'm not going to go in there until November. What And he's like yeah, He's like, I just don't want to pressure him. I'm like, dude, here's here is a tip. When you have a big deer and he is wanting to die, you have got to go hunt him because he is not going to be there. I mean it just when they're giving you opportunity, you better seize it. You know, you can get aggressive with a big old deer and not not run him out like you think, but you know you got to get after it because before you know what, you're gonna be like, uh, he's gone. 00:38:12 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So continue with that. What if you have that situation where you've got a buck daylighting, maybe you get them on camera two days out of three leading up to a day, you can hunt. But the situation is like we're talking about where it's hot. The conditions seem lousy, but he showed up a couple times before. And let's say, like the wind is not bulletproof. It's kind of one of those days. It's like, well, you know, I could do it maybe, but it's a little bit risky. And I've been in a situation like this where like, man, he's been daylight, he might not ever do it again, or this might be my one chance, and do you take the swing? Would you take a swing on that kind of situation despite the if he conditions, because that daylight photo is so rare and you got to take advantage of these moments. 00:39:00 Speaker 3: You know, if I'm if I'm from out of town and I'm there, I probably would. But if I'm if I live there earlier, live nearby, like I I do, I do tend to hunt very conservatively. I call it like hunting defensively instead of offensively. A lot of people are like looking for the magic thing to do, and usually it's things they need just to not do. You know what I mean, less is so much more, And I I got this kind of big macro approached the whole hunting season, and it's it's a tortoise in the hair game. I treat my farm like glass house, I you know, because once you once you do ruin it, you you've you've ruined it, you know, So I don't I don't get too rammy. I guess if that answer your question, you know, I don't know. I just I just try and treat it like a glasshouse and not make mistakes. You know. It's very methodical and it's slow, and just the mental side of hunting is like most of the time, and you kind of as you mature as a hunter, you are able to just relax and be okay with it. But I remember man just getting so wound up. And most of the time that's the way you're gonna feel, because it's not usually like when you finally got it, like I'm gonna kill this year. Usually it's over within a day or two, you know what I mean. So a lot of times it should feel kind of like what is going on? You know, what, where is he He's gone this or that, and it's just kind of like you just gotta trust the process and the season and all your philosophies because there's just light switch moments throughout the season. Every year they happen, and when you're in one of the lows, I'm just like, something will happen here minute, Like last year. I mean, I shot a huge deer last year. I had pictures of him in the summer. I didn't think he was I thought he was like a lot smaller than they ended up being. They weren't good pictures. There was some other people hunting the farm. I had some equipment go missing. I was like, you know, whatever, screw this. I left a camera by accident on the on the piece next door, and I didn't even have any cameras over there. And all of a sudden I got a picture of him, Like and I wasn't even hunting really in October because I didn't really have anything at shoot, And all of a sudden, like November fourth, I get a picture of him right in the camera. I'm like, oh my, I'm like, wow, I misjudged him by a lot and like and and then boom, two days later, I shoot a Meggage giant and it's like it's just a lights. It's just that's the way deer season goes. And I think everybody can relate to that. You know, it's never you're on a high the whole time. You're just going from big deer to big deer to big deer. It's usually like, you. 00:41:57 Speaker 2: Know, a lot of lows question marks, and then a couple high points. So you kind of alluded to an answer to this next question I have. But I'm curious about, like a little bit about how you're utilizing your cell cameras and these days, I think there's a temptation to kind of chase cell picks. I think a lot of people are kind of chasing pictures. So let's let's imagine this is like, you know, mid October ish kind of time period, and you've got this methodical, you know, macerel strategy like you just talked about for hunting. So let's let's say later October because things are a little more exciting then, and so you have a plan in place, like you've been hunting all October, You've been hunting smart. You're going into the evening hunt and you're sitting in a spot that you think is dynamite. You've got solid reason to be hunting in this area because of history, because of the wind, because of the terrain set up, because of your plot, set up, whatever it is. But just before you, you know, head down the road, you get your upload from yesterday's cell cameras. Let's say, and you all of a sudden see a daylight picture of your target buck or a target buck. Some are completely different conditions, aren't bad there? But he was there yesterday. Do you chase that cell cam pick because he was there daylight yesterday evening, or do you stick to your original plan that you spend all day thinking through and you feel really confident about despite this picture. 00:43:24 Speaker 3: How far are you talking? 00:43:27 Speaker 2: How far are these two properties separate? Are these two places let's say they are different deer, Like these are different No, let's not say they're different deer. Let's say this is within the same property. So hypothetically you could see this same buck in either spot. But let's say this is like a three hundred acres maybe, and they're not right next to each other somewhere in that three hundred acres but not super duper close. 00:43:52 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, it would depend on when that picture was. If it was like if it was like because I look at that picture and try and figure out where he was bedded when I got the like, if it was earlier, the evening the day before, So it meant I try and figure out, like, Okay, where was he coming from or going to in this picture or was it a random picture at the end at the middle of the night, Because I mean, they can cover some ground, and if it's October, they're fairly patternable in my opinion, except for when you get into like I call it the boomerang phase, like October twenty seven, twenty eight, twenty nine. It's like what happens in that date is like you'll it seems like when a bunch of deer within that older age class separate in September, you know, seems like you'll get one whose core is here and one whose core is here, and one whose core is here, and they might overlap a little bit in October, but they're really territorial and they're that's what they're doing. They're in a territory marking mindset. And so all of a sudden, in what I call the boomerang phase, you'll see this deer womb loop up here, and you'll see this deer loop down here, and you'll see this dear loop up here. And I mean, if you pay attention, it's it's like it's every year on the twenty seventh, they'll get a picture and I'll text it to Toby and be like boomerang phase. So it just kind of depends on some things. But I try and I try and stick to the plan because they can cover a ton of ground in ten minutes, and if he's been doing something in October, he's probably gonna your higher odds that he's going to keep doing that than all of a sudden change. And so, you know, a lot of these questions. It might help if I kind of gave my overall picture of deer season, because I kind of fairly simplified. That might help lock some of this stuff together. So in so my approach is there's three things that affect big deer to move, and there's more things in that, but they all kind of group into these things. One is date or phase. And I also call that mindset because that's all that really is the deer do that they're mine. Set is wired the same every year to the date because of the you know, the photo period or whever, So the date phaser mindset, that's a predictable thing. So like I can use my my philosophies and stuff and say, Okay, it's October twenty seven. This is the mindset of these deer. They're getting gonna be rammier in their territory marketing, so I can use that to make wise decisions. So date phaser mindset. And then, and that goes back to your thing about the cameras, October is different because they're pretty much in the same mindset the whole month. It's a ramp up, but it's a territory marking mindset. You'll see him mess with those, but it's really more of a territory like they'll come out. People be like, oh, they're chasing dose, but really what he did was he came out, he curled his lips, he pushed her, and he's showing dominance. It's still that mindset. And then, like a light switch on Halloween, changes to a dough So it's a territory cruising mindset where on a high pressure magic text thing. In the end of October, he's cruising, going scrape to scrape to scrape sometimes every food pot and the whole on the whole farm. And then like a light switch, it becomes a dough mindset mindset. Now he's cruising trying to find a hot dough. So that's like a light switch event that happens, and now all of a sudden, he's using his nose to navigate because he has to. So then your strategy. You know that a lot of things changed in So there's date phase or mindsets, and I always try and be in front of the deer. I don't once, especially once October thirty first rolls around, the cameras somewhat go out the window. I mean, they definitely still give you information, but I'm trying to be ahead of that deer. That big deer I shot last year was like November fifth or something. I went to a tree stand I left in case that deer blew up, which he did, and I shot on my first time in because I knew he was in that date the year before, and I knew what he was doing, so I was ahead of him. I wasn't really worrying that I got his picture on the neighboring piece. I was. I was hunting, you know, out in front of the deer, predicting his next move. So date phase or mindset, that's one thing that I look at. The other thing is Moon get everybody fired up about the moon. I am a huge believer the week leading up to the full moon is more powerful for evening sets. The week after is more powerful for morning sets. I just I understand that there's all kinds of studies. I but I can feel the difference. And I've run so many cameras, I've been in the woods so many years, and so many dates, and so many of those moon phases, and i can just feel the difference. It gives you a little bit of an edge. And when you couple it with a high pressure front in the end of October, so you know, in the third thing, so you got moon fase, which is predictable, we got date phase or mindset, which is predictable. The last thing is the environment, which is not predictable. And that goes to the magic X day. If you keep it as simple as a magic X day, that X represents cold weather, it represents you know, high pressure. You know, they accompany each other. So whatever people think is the most powerful part of that day, that day that starts out gloomy, damp, dreary, humid, and by prime time is bluebird fifteen degrees cooler, a lot drier air. That is the best day in the world to do hunt. I mean, it's just fire. It's just I literally go to my tree stand like this on that day. And so when you get all three of those things to line up, you have a crazy powerful day. If you don't have if you don't have a good moon phase, but you have good environment and it's not a good day it's early October, it's still good because of the environmental. It just when you take all three of those things and you wind them up together, those are the best days in the woods. So those three concepts, the date, the phase which equals mindset, the moon phase, and the environmental that's kind of like the premises of everything. So, you know, but back to that original question about you know what was the question again? 00:50:32 Speaker 2: Heck, I don't even remember now. 00:50:46 Speaker 3: It was something about like your trail cams, you know. 00:50:49 Speaker 2: Oh yeah it was you know, if you if you got a self picture of a shooter buck in daylight the evening before in a different place than your planned location, as you're about to go to that planned location, would you stick with the plan or chase that daylight photo that happened yesterday. 00:51:07 Speaker 3: Yeah, so if it's October, I'm going to go to where he's been on camera, even if it's at night working scrapes, because I know his mindset is marking territory. So I'm going to stick to that plan. I'm not going to get rammy and bounce around. He shouldn't be crazy far away in October anyway. If it's in the date, that again being ahead of him, predicting him date phase or mindset. If it's end of October and you're in that that you know, boomerang ish type phase, I could see him being on the other side of the farm. But a lot of times that's that is that is a that is a march that night, and he's right back. So I would kind of use my philosophies and stay calm and just be like, I'm going to go in there. If he comes, he comes, If not, he lives another day, but sooner or later he's you know, gonna get a crack at him. 00:52:03 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:52:04 Speaker 3: That's the other thing. I don't ever get too rammy to to get like, I literally say, this is a whole season. I just got to make base hit plays. In other words, not do something stupid, which isn't inevitable. You know, things a lot, So that's just part of it. 00:52:22 Speaker 2: What what what does it take to get you Rammy? Is it? Is it all three of those factors lining up? Is that the only situation we're be like, Okay, I gotta get really aggressive because magic acts time of year and the cold front ran the moon. 00:52:38 Speaker 3: Yeah, so so if it's as October goes, I'll get more aggressive because he's on that pattern, you know, in the end of the month. Like if I yeah, if I get all three of those things, like this year we have a perfect we got a phone move in the end of October. So and I'll look at the exact dates. But and if I'm somebody who's like trying to plan when I'm coming in October, I'm going to plan the week before the full moon because in that week period you're gonna have one high pressure sit and it's going to be one of the most powerful nights of the whole season. Is a target deer that you're on this year, it falls on the twenty eighth, so the week of like the twenty third to the twenty seventh. I mean, if you have if you've got a big deer on camera in October doing something at night, and that's another whole rabbit hole is like people say, oh, I got this year, but he's nocturnal. Well, he's nocturnal because that's what they do. They're wired to do that. But but then randomly you get a daylight pisser, and it's because you know, there's a rhyme or reason usually to it. And so all those things I'm seeing him do at night, I'm not going to get discouraged that he's doing at night. I'm just going to pay attention to where he's entering the field at night because that's probably where he's going to enter it in the daylight, which scrapes he's hitting, you know, all those things, you know, possibly wind directions. Maybe you find that he's entering the field in a different spot in a different wind direction or something like that, which might be because he's betting in a different spot on a different wind direction. Which I've seen some crazy things happen with all these walls and stuff we build. When we're doing building projects and farms, I've had situations where my camera's telling me one hundred percent, like when he goes bed to feed, he has to go buy my camera because he can't not. And I've seen I had this giant deer in Marshall County there was this bluff and a cornfield and in the summer I had a couple of these random like some days he'd be pictured, he'd be betted in the bottom in the corn and some days he betted on the hilltop and uh, and I'm like, huh, that's kind of weird. And then there was a few days like in the middle of the day in the summer, eleven o'clock, two o'clock, I get a picture of him randomly walking through the gap. And then one day I had him go through and then a few hours later went back through again. And I went back to weather underground history and every single one of those was on a wind change. Those midday moves, it was on a wind change, like to the hour he got up and left one betting area and went to the other one base based off the wind. And the day he moved twice there was two wind changes. And you know, you don't get that kind of intel unless you literally have a unless you get one hundred percent you know, camera intel. So you know, some of that's been interesting to see, to see when your camera locations go up crazy. But yeah, that week this year of the twenty third of the twenty seventh is when I'd be planning my my hunt out west. Back to the original original question. If I'm going somewhere and I and I can, I only got a week to plan or whatever. I'm going to plan it around the week leading to the full moon in October. And the reason is the week leading to the full moon is because that's the best evening and October is conducive to evening hunting prank mostly, So that's what I'm gonna pick. And I'm going to look for that magic X day, and i mean try it. If you're listening this year, watch that week leading up to the twenty eighth, you know, watch for a magic X Day. I've got a video on my YouTube stuff that will help you get that set up and figure out exactly you know what that is. And if you have a target deer and you feel like you're on a deer and whatever he's doing, go sit that that night, that magic X night lead in that week right there, or if you can't hunt, watch your cameras on that day. It's really powerful. It's probably the most powerful day of the whole dear season, is the Magic X day leading up to the full moon in the month of October. 00:57:01 Speaker 2: All right, well, I'm gone from my home based properties until the twenty eighth, so and try to get it done that night. I guess, yeah, I can't, can't be there for those days leading up to it. 00:57:13 Speaker 3: And here's another thing about the day of the full moon. Just something I've seen over the years. You don't see a lot of deer generally, but you'll but I've seen and I've got pictures of some big ones like right at last light like more more often than coincidentally interesting, And I don't know the whole moon conversation. You know, it's like there's this culture of like gall the moon. But you know, I can I know for I can feel it in me. I know for a fact. It makes a difference with big, mature deer that require very specific triggers to move in daylight. But when they are triggered, they're just out there walking around. I mean, it's not like they're like some type of a like unicorn, the magnetic pull of the moon is forcing them. It's not really like that. It's just like, okay, they're up. But you know, like Lee Lakowski, he is the same way. I mean, he believed. He believes in the moon. I had him tell me last year. On a warm day, he was like he was somebody said, oh, it's a warm day. He's like, they're like, probably not much going on. He's like, yeah, unless you have a water hole on a green source. And we're like really, and he's like yeah. He goes, what's the moon doing. He goes, I'll have a big one on camera to thirty today. He sends this picture, a big one at two thirty five, like right on, so you got got that, and yeah, guy like Ben Rising, you got Mark Druriy And all of them are like they they feel that they like can they're in there and it can feel the mindsets of these deer and they're all like, yes, it makes a difference. So I don't know where the disconnect is between the science and the guys that are shooting these big deer. You know, but I don't know if it's because it's skewed because there's less percentage of mature deer that I don't know what it is. 00:59:14 Speaker 2: You know, well, and to your point you made earlier, and I know, like one of your larger kind of theories of hunting is like you're stacking all these little, tiny odds, and even if the moon is only like a two percent thing, maybe that doesn't show up as statistically significant in a larger study, But a two percent bump for a specific mature buck to move on a day stacked with all these other things can be a huge difference for a hunter. 00:59:38 Speaker 3: So and so now working theory off of those three principles, one being the moon on a year in the morning. So on a year that the moon is full at the end of October, like this year, I'm probably not going to do too much morning hunting leading up to that because that's the grand finale and it's in the end of October, so my hunting chances are just gonna get higher and higher and higher. If that full moon is like the eighteenth or the twentieth, I am gonna plan on morning hunting some that week after, because that moon does give a slight edge to movement after it in the mornings in October can be really good. But the thing is, you have the whole month to play the game of the tortoise and the air in the glasshouse, so it's not worth potentially going out and ruining it here when you still got more time. But if the moon is peaks out here in helping me, and now I've got this window here, I might Now I'll probably hunt some morning after the high pressure fronts on scrapes because he's going to be doing the same thing. He's going to be marking terror mindset. He is going to be marking territory on that phone because that's what he's wired to do. And now I've got two things in my favor. I've got a magic X day the morning after the high pressure front, and I've got that moon phase. So i have two things helping me and mornings and the end of October can be really good. There's no denying that. It's just you have to balance the risk reward, which is something I'm always thinking about, is the risk work reward. And at that point, in my eyes, because of that moon, the risk becomes worth the reward because now you're running out of time before his mindset changes. 01:01:35 Speaker 2: Yeah, I follow you, Okay, so new well, not new scenario. Let's just move forward a week. So let's stick with what that calendar looks like this year. So full moon October twenty eighth, you're hunting, though it's now October, sorry, November first, and your seven day forecast for that period is a hot rut. So this is what a lot of us experienced last year. And I don't know where you were at from November one through seven, but it was hot and kind of miserable in Ohio and Nebraska. How is that? So let's say you've got that, You've got seven days of like seventy to eighty degree temperatures from November one through seven, and this is about a week following the full moon. What do you do in that situation? What kind of set ups? What's your plan given that? 01:02:17 Speaker 3: So the first thing that you're going to notice is everybody's going to be saying the deer are lockdown earlier this year, which is not true. It's just the perceiving that because there's going to be a lack of deer movement, so they're going to be attributing it to lockdown, but it's really not. You know, lockdown is kind of that date that everything else pendulates on. So like sometimes I got friends in other areas that trying to you know, we're trying to figure something out, and we'll try and figure out when lockdown is. We'll be like well, when do you see like nothing but button bucks and fauns. And then we'll try and backdate and correlate it today's I know from that, So like boomerang phase, you know, lockdown in Illinois is like the fourteen is epicenter of it. So like if I count days back to the twenty eighth, I do the same thing for my friend somewhere else that that his lockdown is the twentieth, you know, so he'd be a weekly So so, so the first thing is it's gonna be slow. No, it's going to be slow. Their mindset is going to still be the same. The light switches changed, and now they're in a dough mindset. They want to find a girlfriend. So now we're gonna think like a deer and what their mindset is, what they're trying to do, and we're gonna try and get out ahead of them. The cameras kind of go away, you know, they don't go away. Scrapes are you know, they're stopping to hit scrapes like a light switch because their mindset has changed. The biggest I mean, and and and now we're in a time that some of that stuff can go out the window because if if there's a hot dough. I mean, now now is the time. Now comes the grind. Now is like here we go, this is this is the here we go. So the things that you have in your favor are that is the best time of the year to hunt when you have poor conditions like that, So that time of year, I guess I would probably ignore those conditions. Now there is the mental side of this if you are the one that gets I know, guys that sit all day every day, they don't. I mean, they're hardcore. I'm hardcore, but I can sit all day no problem when I know it's the right day. When it's not the right day, it's extremely hard for me to sit all day. Those are I'm probably gonna still hunt those days. I'm not gonna hunt all day. I'm not going to get two and I'm not going to go into those stands that are hung course that I would never go into other than those few day windows. And I'm going to mentally conserve until it's right because I'd rather put in five all day sits from November seventh to the you know twelfth, then burn myself out and then only do half day sits in those in those days. So there's some, there's some. There's some mental battles there and stuff I personally would not get too rammy, yet I would so. And here's, in my opinion, the biggest key to hunting that part of the rut or you know the rut as people know it. You know, deer looking for dose that if you reverse engineer it from a deer's nose. They're using their nose to find dose. A lot of people say, you know, buck, deer walk into the wind, you know, quartered into the wind all the time. I don't think they do that. I've seen them walking in the wind in their back when their mindset is just food. They're not using their nose if they're not highly pressured and they have to walk around like they can't. I mean, it's almost impossible they're just walking into the wind all the time. But when that light switch changes and they're looking for a dough, they're using their nose. So I'm looking to hunt dough betting areas on the downwind side of those dough betting areas. And that's where some manipulation can get really good, because when you can create thickets, not the whole wood lot, but when you can go in and hingecut, you know, places that are engineered around access a huntable tree, and you put that little puff quarter acre whatever on a south azing point in the woods or whatever. When you put it in the right spot and it's upwind and it becomes thick enough where they can't see a dough editing it, they have to use their nose. You can create what is essentially like kill food plots. They're betting areas with strategy. So now you're sitting on the downwind side of a game of Connect the dots, and when he gets Rammy and wants to go find dose, he's liable to hit every single one of those you know, dough betting areas on your farm in one in one walk, and when he comes to one that he can't see with his eyes, he's coming to the downwind side of it. So always in the ruck, always thinking like a deer, and the way that they use their nose, you know that, and hunting food sources obviously where those are going to be at. But you know, I just I've literally committed to try my hardest when November one rolls around to not get in a box line anymore. Like I want to be able to see and hear. They are going to spend more hours of their daylight time in cover in the woods, navigating looking for does. Then they're going to spend out there on a food source. Not to say I won't on it in the evening, but you want your eye in the October box line is key tool. You got light and variable winds, you got thermals, they will screw you more often. I mean, it is so important to have sanfree blinds in October. If possible November, I will literally have tree stand hung above my line and I'll be in it because I want my eyes. I want my ears. I want to feel the like energy of the woods. I don't call much, you know, but when I can feel it all of a sudden, that a light switch. We've all seen it happen, like something is going on today. There's bucks everywhere just like what I feel. That is when I might you know, call or whatever. So you know, I don't want to be in a box line in the in the rut in that time of the year when they're looking for dose, and I want to always be where dose are because that's where they're going and I want to be on the downwind side of where those doughs are are in the woods. Pinch Points are great, especially when you can engineer one of those thickets in a pinch point with good access and a huntble tree. 01:09:14 Speaker 2: Yeah, let's expand on some of the setup discussion you've got going here with the rut. Let's say that's this time period rut time period first week or two of November. Let's say it's Illinois somewhere, you know, but it's an all timber piece. You're hunting zero ad. You're at least that you can hunt. You just got a big block of timber. Let's call it like a rectangular hundred and let's say it's got rolling topography, mixed hardwoods and a small creek that's kind of winding right down the middle. So it's pretty simple the picture right in that scenario. Can you walk me through a hypothetical ideal rut stand setup or two? Given that simple scenario, how you would try to hunt something like that? 01:10:00 Speaker 3: So like a farm that I'm going I'm gonna go scout and hang stuff for like that week or something, I already know the layout to it, Well. 01:10:09 Speaker 2: You can you can do either one. Basically, what I'm interested is like how would you hunt a proper like that for someone who's got just timber. 01:10:16 Speaker 3: If I already know the farm, you know, I'm I'm gonna have an idea where the dough betting areas are, and I'm just gonna hunt those if they're thick. You know, I'm gonna I'm gonna set up on the downwind side of that cover. If I've got like, ah, you know, I'm not gonna be low in those bottoms because the wind is gonna be wonky and stuff. If I got ridge ridgetops intersect their killer you know, old fences in the woods. But just always always thinking about the nose. Thing. Like we've done a lot of consolets for people where they bring as to a spot that we already are looking at on the map of it's obvious and they got to stand there and we're like and they're like, we just don't ever see any big deer out of here. We get pictures of them, we just don't see many big ones. And we're like, because your stand is on the wrong side of the spot, you're hunting the spot with the wind, good for you, But he's got no reason to be here because he's on the other side of all all this cover, you know what I mean, So so always always thinking about the wind in their nose and as a macro like looking at the farm like if I got this wind, what what spots is he going to want to be at? Looking for those based off the wind, you know? Yeah, I mean that's that That is like powerful ruts, you know, because I used to as you evolved for as a deer hunter, it's just like you know, pinch points, funnels, you know, and that's all great because you're touching them, kind of be bopping around to those spots. But that's more predictable, you know what I mean, hunting the downward side of things. 01:12:08 Speaker 2: Yeah, here's another one that a lot of people face during this time period. And you know, within the deer hunting community these days, there is a there's a lot of buzz and trendiness around being really mobile, bouncing around a lot, moving around a lot, and I would say, from the outside looking in, it seems like you might be more. You know, you've got very well planned out locations. You have a lot of preset stands, box blinds, You've manipulated terrain to have you know, things happening in specific places for specific reasons that you know about. So I'm going to make the assumption that you might be more of a hey, i'm sticking it out here kind of guy. But I want to lay out the scenario and see what you would do. Let's say you're hunting during the rut you're on, you know, one of these properties you've hunted in the past, and you see a shooter buck cruising out side of range during the rut. You see a mature buck that you want to shoot doing something outside of range from where you are, and then you see a younger buck do the same thing later. Let's say this is the morning of a cold November day. Do you move to chase a buck siding like that that day or the next day or something, or do you stick to whatever it is you're doing despite an observation you know that's confirmed by at least two bucks doing the same thing. 01:13:27 Speaker 3: Yeah, so, believe it or not. A lot of the farms, like we develop and stuff a lot of them by the time they're developed, their their soul. So it's either like a farm that I I own and not much has been done. So I'm kind of hunting in old school anyway. So yeah, actually, believe it or not. More of my hunting is pretty mobile. I mean, if if I have obviously we build stuff for those magical days in October and are pretty obvious, I mean, because you're those setups are you were trying to set them up around you know, the wind direction and the thermals. You know, so and that's a big thing is setting up your setups so with especially in October, I'm always looking at this struck the terrain and where the thermals are gonna go because they will overpower the wind in October almost every evening. I mean, so it's really important to have your wind direction lined up with the thermals. But that being said, in October, yeah, I'm trying to be in box line because they hedge the wind, they up odds usually they're in those setups. But I got a I got about ten or a dozen novacs in my and I make sure they're all back in my house hanging up on the wall when I go into the season because more often than not, and actually I've gotten to the point, especially on like permission pieces and leases and stuff, I don't even pre hang stuff anymore because I just it feels like, oh ways, I'm you know, run, I'm running and gunning and moving and I'm in some crazy little four inch tree and so yeah, I actually believe or not. I run. I run and gun a lot, I think partially because a lot of those the fully developed stuff is already sold or we get people the right to hunt it while they're under contract and stuff like that. So I love running, gun and I love all the mobile you know, I'm not a saddle hunter. I bought one, i haven't used it yet. I love a lot of the stuff that these guys are doing. Like I've you know, I've got just utilizing a lot of the lightweight stuff and the you know, the the am steel or whatever, and the stuff is really cool and it's all that stuff is all layers a strategy, you know, being mobile. I think being mobile is being able to get in crooked trees. And that's so key because, like I was saying, it's better to be in the wrong tree in the right spot and the right tree and the wrong spot. And I won't sacrifice that for. 01:16:05 Speaker 2: Ten feet. 01:16:06 Speaker 3: I mean, I'll get in a four inch tree and bring cedar branches up in there and be eight feet off the ground before I'll be in the perfect tree if it's if I feel like it's off by fifteen d you know, so being mobiles, it's just. 01:16:21 Speaker 2: So would you chase that observation then you see that shooter buck and a younger buck, you know, fifty yards out of range? Do you move for that afternoon or for the next morning. 01:16:30 Speaker 3: You know, I would try, and I wouldn't just play the game of you know, he goes there, I go there, he goes there, because that you know, that doesn't generally pan out. I would try and get in the mindset of what he was doing and why he was there. You know, if it's the beginning of November especially, and and he's in there, I'm just pumped he's in the area. I mean, you know that that's half the battle. I mean, you got to you got to count your blessings when you have a big deal, because that's the hardest thing about killing Big Year is having a big deer at hunt. So when you it's like every time I'm on when I'm like, I'm so lucky that's gonna be the last one, you know, because it is it's like it's just so you know, it's like it's just surreal. You know, so I wouldn't chase him just to chase him. I would try and figure out why he's there. If it's November, I would definitely not be chasing him unless there was a specific strategic reason to be chasing him, because you know the next day he's bound to be somewhere. I mean, you know, I would. I'd rather sit for five days in a row and not see him in a spot that I know he has to eventually go. I don't even care if he's a mile away. Eventually he's gonna be there, and I'm gonna I'm gonna use probability to kill him. When you go bouncing around and you you know, and you you are hunting multiple deer, I'm gonna go hunt this deer and I'm gonna go this farm, hunt this dear night that just killed your odds. I when I get on deer, I focus on that deer, and I do not. I don't go and start hunting another deer. I odds and probability will always work in your favor. 01:18:17 Speaker 2: Yeah, it makes sense. Certainly has seemed to work pretty well for you based on that wall in your in your house or wherever that is, your barn, I've seen this picture of the beautiful high vaulted ceilings, the wood, the wood paneling, and a whole little, bigger accent. 01:18:32 Speaker 4: There. 01:18:34 Speaker 2: Something's working. 01:18:35 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's you know, it's still a struggle. There's I tell people that everything works, all the strategies work. They just don't work all the time. Everything works. There is no right or wrong in deer hunting. All there is is is probability and strategy and and you know, numbers and stacking. 01:18:55 Speaker 2: Off figuring out what works in your circumstances and for your goals and and all that kind of stuff. So, Bob, you made it through. You survived though. What would you do? Gauntlet? But there's one last quick face here. There's a set of rapid fire questions that I got to run you through to try to close the sucker out. Okay, so I'm going to give you a quick question and you can only answer with one ant with one word answer. Okay, it's gonna be a yes or no or this or that. Okay, no explanation allowed. All Right, here we go. Would you take a fifty yard shot at a white tail with your bow? Yes or no? In my younger years, if you could only have one of these tools to use for all your hunts for the rest of your life. You can only pick one. Would you take a set of radomy antlers or grunt tube gun expandable or fixed Blaye broadheads? 01:19:49 Speaker 3: No doubt? 01:19:50 Speaker 2: Should you stop a buck with some kind of sound before shooting if he's walking? 01:19:56 Speaker 3: Situational? 01:19:59 Speaker 2: If you could only pick one food plot crop to use for all your food plots for the rest of the time, only one seed type, what would you pick? 01:20:07 Speaker 3: Porn? 01:20:09 Speaker 2: Which state has better hunters? North Carolina, New York or Illinois? They're all different, true, And here's your last one. This one you can this one you can expand on just a little bit. Let's say that I rule the world and I have control over your hunting rights and privileges, and I'm going to tell you that I'm going to take away your hunting license for the rest of your life if you cannot kill a mature buck this year. So you got to kill mature buck this year in order to preserve your hunting rights for the rest of your life. But here's the trick. I'm only giving you one day to get that mature buck killed. So a what I need to do is tell me what date on the calendar you're gonna pick this year to kill your mature buck, and then paint me a picture of the stand site you would pick for that day that you think would give you the absolute best chance to kill mature buck on that date to save the rest of your hunts for the rest of your life. 01:21:09 Speaker 3: Well, if if I could pick the high pressure day leading up to the full moon, it was a twenty fifth of October, that's the day, hands down, I would pick, and I would hunt the scrape on the food source that the big deer has been going to. Hands down. If I had to pick a random date, I would pick November eleventh, if I just had to pick a random. 01:21:36 Speaker 2: Day, going for that best chance to catch a cruiser. 01:21:41 Speaker 3: Just because it's yeah, yeah, yeah, now a maturitier, the most maturedier in the woods. And I'm going a little rabbit hole here. My theory and philosophy is that you have a bell curve of doze that come in and it peeks out around November fourteen or whatever in Illinois. The most mature dominant deer in the woods, he's got to search for it when the bell curve is down here. And then when he loses her and gets another one. There's more options and more options, so he can be harder to kill in the time that's the best for a big buck in general. And then the post lockdown cruise phase like November sixth, seventeenth, seventeenth, eighteenth, nineteenth, I think can be the best time in the actual dose seeking rut phase to kill the biggest dear in the woods. No. Number seventeen twenty. 01:22:38 Speaker 2: Well, I like you playing, Bobby. I think you get it done. I feel confident that you'd be able to keep on hunting. You get your buck and you keep your hunting rights. 01:22:46 Speaker 3: And then there's early muzzleloader in Kansas, which is probably the most deadly thing in the country, and or late season in Iowa that you can bohunt on the late muzzle or tag and that is also just insanely deadly. So there's just so much fun to have out. 01:23:02 Speaker 2: It's like, sure is, Yeah, you're You're Kansas Ranch. I've seen the video of that place you guys are working on. That looks like an insane place for that early Kansas muzzloder. 01:23:12 Speaker 3: Someday, yeah, yeah, So I'm actually getting married on on I think opening day of Kansas early Muzzloder, so I will not be out there. 01:23:23 Speaker 2: So well, congrats on the marriage. Sorry about the bad luck with the timing. 01:23:31 Speaker 3: That's all you. 01:23:32 Speaker 2: Uh you pass you pass the test swimmingly, Bobby, So congrats on that. And uh, you want to give folks a real quick rundown of where they can learn about your guys properties, where they can see your videos all that kind of stuff. 01:23:45 Speaker 3: Yep. So we don't do a whole ton of things on Instagram and and Facebook daily and stuff, but we have like a really good long format YouTube series where we document these farms as we develop them and stuff. So YouTube is a great place. We do have Facebook too, And then we have a website you know that. You know, we sell locks Blnes. We do consulting on helping people set their farms up. We have a big logging logging division and all that information on our website. We got lots of farms for sale on there. Good luck, awesome. 01:24:20 Speaker 2: Yeah, hey, thank you Bobby for doing Let's really enjoyed it and keep up the work with the videos. I really enjoy them. The in depth breakdowns the farms and everything is very it's entertaining and that's very informational too, so for a white tail nerd, it's some of the best. 01:24:36 Speaker 3: We try and do you know, there's no one size fits all, like to farms, you know, it's like there's not It's like I try and keep it interesting and situational and like just always doing something outside the box and trying things, and there's like I said, there's no right and wrong answers. 01:24:54 Speaker 2: Yep, it's good stuff, all right, Bobby, Well, thanks to this, good luck this season and looking forward to keeping up on Hot all goes. Thanks you too, all right, and that is a wrap. Thanks for tuning in. Appreciate you being a part of this community in this podcast. Stuff's only going up from here, guys. The ramp up into the season is coming in hot and heavy. I'm stoked for it. We've got four more episodes of this what would You Do series with some great hunters lined up, so we're gonna get some really good insights here over the month of August and then when we kick off the season in September. For a lot of us, it's just gonna be more and more of these deep dives into strategy with some of the best hunters in the world breaking down how they do, what they do and what we can learn from it. I am excited. Hope you are two, and until next time, stay Wired to Hunt.