00:00:01 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, home of the modern whitetail hunter, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm your host, Mark Kenyan, and this week on the show, I'm joined by four hunters who've decided it's time to embrace being an okay hunter and all the fun, fumbles and failures that come along with it. All right, welcome to the wire Hunt podcast, brought to you by First Light. Today in the show, we're gonna answer the question is it okay to be a just okay hunter? I think there's something we said, there's this idea and I think a reality of source that we're probably not all going to be a Mark Jury or and in fault or uh John Dudley, and maybe there's something to be said, Maybe there's a benefit to embracing that reality. Two accepting that reality to a degree in finding how we can be our own kind of hunter. That's the discussion we're gonna have here today. And I'm joined by four guys, four guys who have started a podcast in the community called The okayst Hunter, and they're all about embracing this idea, embracing the fact that We're not all going to be the best hunters in the world. We're not all going to kill giant bucks every single year, and let's not kill ourselves trying to do that or trying to compare what we're doing to other people. Let's enjoy our hunt, Let's hunt our own hunt, and let's celebrate that. That's the message these guys are sharing. This is the message that I, you know, I think I needed to hear. This is something that if you've been listening to the podcast over the last six months, you've kind of heard me going through some of my own kind of I don't know, debates and internal dialogues around what I personally want out of hunting and what my goals are and why I'm doing what I'm doing. Um And if you've listened for a long time, you know that I've always been a very goal oriented person, very achievement focused, very driven, always you know, pushing to be the very best deer hunter I possibly can be, and and just striving and striving and pushing and pushing, and you know, not wanting to cut in the corners and preaching the importance of not cutting corners and doing everything you possibly can and sometimes that's a great thing. I think that's a really good thing and stuff I stand by. But sometimes that maybe you can go too far. Sometimes maybe you can get to a point where you're so stressed about what you achieve or uh get when it comes to hunting, or you're putting so much pressure on yourself, or you're so focused on the outcome that you lose sight of your community and your friends and your family and the fun of hunting. If any of that stuff starts happening, I think maybe we've got a problem. And that's something that I've experienced personally myself. So talking to these guys, I got to think, and maybe it is okay to be okay sometimes maybe there's something that we said about actually having fun while you're hunting or going to breakfast with your buddies. Uh yeah, maybe it will decrease your chances of feeling a tag a little bit, But does that really matter? Those are some of the questions we're gonna answer here today. I'm joined by Eric Clark, Derek Melcoor, Tyler Meaden and Greg Tubs. These guys are fun group. They've got a great perspective I think on this, and as I mentioned, I think it's a much needed perspective as so much within our white tail hunting community is so focused on killing big bucks and you know, sharing your pictures online and people bragging about their big deer, people trashing other people about their small deer or whatever it is. There's just a whole lot of craziness I feel like these days, and um, maybe this is just the antidote that we need. So I'm excited about this one. I really enjoyed the chat. I hope there's some of you out here that can benefit from this one. To um, I certainly did so. Without any further ado, let's get to my chat with Eric, Derek Tyler and Greg and I hope you guys enjoy it. Thanks for listening, all right with me on the show. Now, I've got a very full house. We've got Eric, Derek Tyler, and Greg the okayst Hunter crew coming to us from the bar and the basement to the studio of the Okas Hunter whatever you wanna call it. These guys are already having a good time. It seems that. Welcome to this show, guys, Thank you, thank you. Cheers of a Yeah, I wish I was I wish I was partaking. But like I said, it's it's three o'clock in the afternoon here I'm recording, and I just had a coffee, So I don't know if mixing coffee with beer immediately is a good idea. I don't know if you guys have tried that. But you're you're already pulling some rookie numbers there. You gotta think ahead about this and coffee, man, you gotta throw a little whiskey in there. That's a good point. That's a that's a proven commodity. You make a very good point. So so you guys obviously know how to have a good time. But what I want to talk to you guys about and you can each kind of individually give me your own take on this. But you know, when I recorded the previous introduction to this, I share with everybody about how I've I've had a little bit of a transformation in how I view my hunting and how I approach my hunting. And this is something that I've kind of been going through over the last six months to a year, um, and I've kind of coming around to rethinking my goals, the why and the how of of how I hunt, and so I say all that, because what I'm starting to appreciate more seems to be very in line with the theme of the brand. You guys have started the Okayest Hunter, And I guess maybe this is a question for whoever wants to talk the loudest. I guess, but why why the okay stunner? Why did you guys launch this brand, this movement, this idea? Why is it okay to just be okay at hunting? They're all pointing at me. This is Eric, this is Derek's wheelhouse, Rdier. I'm on the spot. So you know, really, at some point along the way, um, I had been uh a victim of but you know, I I took some shots at being shamed, you know, for posting a do fund that I got with my bow. It was a ten yard shop from the ground. It was very exciting. I happened to be because here my daughter was born. Don't make me do math on the White Hunt podcast. But I'm thirty six now, so I think it was or No. Thirty two thirty two, and so that was my first year at the Bow and I posted it and people were just dog piling on me. And then I felt this pit of my stomach, like, wow, you know, maybe I should be better by now, or why did I post that? Or what you know, I maybe I do suck. This is awful. And then somewhere along the way, shortly after I saw the same thing happened to a child. A kid posted a picture of like a button buck or something and or like a spike and they just got you know, uh, just a couple of people just happened to say you should have let it go or something like that. And I bought the domain name like ten minutes later, and I'm a bit of a domain name horder, but it was, it was that was the kind of um the spark that lit the fire, and and so we kind of lead with you know, no dear shame, no buck shame. We built a started to build this community, started to hear from others that felt similarly and started to share their spike buck photos with us that had never seen the light of day before. And it opened up our eyes to say, wow, there's a lot of people here that you know, are have experienced something with it like this, are are are afraid too, and that's probably not good for hunting as a collective. UM. So that was that was it. I mean that to answer your question, that was the start of it and it's evolved quite a bit from there, but that was the kickoff. So when you say an okay hunter the okayest hunter, what how would you define an okay hunter? How? How would you guys define yourselves even celebrate the failures. There's there a lot of teachable moments there and like learn to laugh at yourself. And if we think back to time before social media, no one cared. You know, you just went out and you had shot deer and you had fun. And I think it's trying to harken back to get getting back to our roots. Is is why we got into the stuff, like be a kid about it on Christmas morning, As our friend down south says Jared, Nor would you know, should ever gets your pea hot um? One way to put it? And it's this laughter that we're having right now, like that that need there needs to be more of that going on. So we we leverage humor a lot. But everyone's at a different stage in their hunting journey and that should be celebrated to you don't know what someone else is going through. Um, you know a lot of us here raising families or some of us are focusing on our careers or um, maybe you're trying something new for the first time or whatever it is. So it's just be cognizant of others and you know, I'll jump in and so that the where people are on their hunting journey. It's it's really hard to know that when you see one picture on social media that someone posts, you know, I look at myself. I've gone through a real evolution as a hunter. This is Tyler, by the way, I probably introduced myself. So yeah, you know, I started hunting when I was twelve. UM. Was really blessed to have like this amazing property. We saw all these dear you know, I'm sitting there as a twelve year old and trying to you know, wait for a certain like size of buck. And this is before social media. Like this is how I started hunting, very spoiled, very judge of other hunters, and then like I started to evolve. I got into bow hunting about eight years ago, UM and started to sit there And I'm sitting there as I'm hunting and thinking about these deer that are walking by and what people might be saying if I posted that, what would they comment, but what what they think, and that's just not healthy. Right, I'm passing up opportunities to make memories. But why am I? Why am I doing this? And then, um, now I have, you know, two young kids, so the amount of time that I actually get to hunt is minimal. So you know, right now, like I'm just looking to put some meat in the freezer, right, It's that That's what it's about for me as I look out the next couple of years and until my my daughters get a little bit older and I can start taking them out with me and maybe get a little bit more time in the field. So it's you know, I look at it as you know, I've I've really evolved and gone more from someone who's trying to hunt a certain age class of buck to uh, you know, more of an okayus hunter or someone who's almost at the beginning stages. UM. And I look at myself, and then I look at other people on social media and where they might be at, and the whole thing is it's really interesting and I've you know, Eric, Eric pitched the idea to me UM a few years ago, was that maybe and I was having all these thoughts and feelings about it, and I was like, I'm all in, let's go, you know. And it started as hey, um and buck shaming, and it's now for me, it's more about how do we make hunters feel comfortable in the community, no matter where they're at and their hunting journey. And I'll jump in on that. This is Derek Um. I kind of look at it a little bit different way now than kind of when I got started with you guys just over a year ago, and going off with Tyler said like, you don't know where someone started their journey hunting, and they may have had the best of public land and hunting came super easy. They got a whole pilot deer when they're fifteen years old, and that kid might look at another kid who's fifteen who grew up with no one showing him the ropes, and he's hunting the piece of crap public land down the road because it's all he's got, and hunting is two totally different things for those two people. And instead of seeing okay, this hunter is like okay, is it not a great hunter? I see it as like it's okay no matter what kind of hunter you are, So like, whether you're that probably public land hunter the probably land like it's okay. As long as it's legal, it's okay. And celebrate it, like what they said, like your journey, their journey. Embrace where you are in it, and it's okay for other people to be where they are. What about you, what's your story? Greg? My story? Um, basically started hunting as as a young guy too, you know, twelve years old, had my hunter safety succeeded on a turkey right away in the spring with that multiple deer had you know, witnessed the worst cases of buck fever. Ever, as I'm watching giant ten pointers jumped through fence rose and you know, I I love that stuff, and I I had to take a break, you know, got into tech school and went went off and started a career, and I took a pretty long break from deer hunting, did a bit of duck and continued down with turkey. But I always enjoyed it no matter what. And I hunted with people of all different skill levels, and you know, they all treated me pretty much the same. You know, we're all respectful of each other. And it's the same with this group. I'm not the best hunter here. I've not killed the most and biggest deer. But I really enjoy it. I enjoy the camaraderie and like these guys that said it, it's okay to be okay, it's okay to celebrate it. And everybody's journey is different. Yeah. You know what's interesting is like listening to all of your stories and in in from my own experience and talking to other people and stuff. One thing that seems to stand out so much is just the the impact of comparison comparing what we are doing or where we have done, or what we've quote unquote achieved or got or whatever, comparing that to others. Uh. And you know, I don't know if this is something that is just and mean it is human nature. I guess I was gonna say, I don't know if this is human nature, but this is human nature. But I think it's human nature that has been it has been amplified by technology and social media. Right. I mean, if you were to look back twenty five years ago, there would be a little bit of like, you know, a little bit that dick measuring contest your muffs of the kid like that kind of thing. At the bar, right coupe, people put out a picture from their wallet and they say, I got this big buckets, Like locally that in a group of like twenty people, maybe you'd be like telling stories and comparing this or that or whatever. There's a little bit of that kind of thing going on. But now we aren't just pulling out a picture from the wallet and showing two guys at a table. It's you're talking to thousands of people on Instagram, or you're talking on a podcast to people, or you are sharing something on Facebook that can go viral or be posted on some message board or some forum or some Facebook group, and so many people see this thing, and so many people that don't even know you personally. So previously you were only sharing your experiences and and kind of going back and forth the people you had a relationship within a history with and who cared about you. But now this stuff is being shared across the world to a bunch of random people that have no connection to you, no understanding of you. Uh. And also there's no I mean, all the downsides that come with general social media trolling as well. So all of these things I think have amplified this idea of not living, not just being able to live your own experience, but your experience in part being what am I trying to say? That your experience inevitably is always going to be in some way compared to others. Like that's the kind of human thing we all we can't help but look what we have in comparison to others. But now that sample size is huge and full of a bunch of a holes, And I think that is is this crazy new sensation that we're dealing with. It is really really profoundly impacted hunting in the last ten, fifteen year or something like that. Yeah, it's competitive human nature. You know, everybody wants to either do better for themselves or maybe prove that they're better then you know, the next guy. And some people taking another step further and they brag about it, you know, they put it out there and either they get shamed for it or a pet on the back. And I think a lot of times on social media there's there's times when this is happening and it's not even inherently bad, like someone's not trying to shame you or like patrol you. But like when when a young person or a newer hunter, or anyone for that matter, shoots a six pointer and someone says, oh, Hey, nice buck would have been a beauty in a year or two. Like, that's a nice comment. They're trying to be nice, they're not trying to shame them. But to that person who maybe just took their biggest or first year, it doesn't feel like a congratulations. It doesn't feel like a pat on the knock because it's got that compared to a nice job. But I'm gonna kick you in the ass on the way up, Like, well, what's worse as the people you know themselves that say not not the biggest, but so they're already doing themselves. They're already going on defense before they even get it out. And and it's like, well, if it was big enough for you to shoot, then celebrate it and respect the animal by the way to some degree, because now you're doing that animal disservice, you're doing yourself a disservice. And the folks that don't even share at all, it's like because they don't even want to deal with it, it's not even worth the anxiety that's going to come with that. So there's always a keyboard cowboys somewhere, Eric. I mean, they're like they're like protecting themselves, right, You're forecasting the the the what's going to come down the hill from the worst part is they're protecting themselves from other hunters, people who are supposed to be one of the same community, right, Like that's what they're protecting themselves from. What we're going to forever have to deal with that. We're trying to change it, We're trying, we're trying to help. So what do you think that if we were to point the finger at the source of this problem, this kind of virus inside the community, Um, is this is this stemming from like the media? Is this because the mainstream hunting media has perpetrated or perpetuated an idea of what you're supposed to do, and they make it look so easy and they make it look like big bucks are everywhere? And is it that? Is it like this uh pornogrification of hunting or is it is it instead at the social media aspect and just like like people like just regular people being trolls and all that? Is it the com is it the comparison thing and everyone trying to be cooler on social media? Like, if you guys were to try to trace this back to its source, do you have a theory on that or is it really a combination of all the above and something else too. Yeah, I say yes out of the gate. But the I think the the core issue is ego and human nature what she talked about. I read a book human you know, the Laws of Human Nature by Robert Green, and it's very long book about human nature, but you can start to see some common themes that root back to the beginning of time. And I've also read the book Ego as the Enemy about too many times. Yeah, and so that is the main theme, that there's ego in hunting, the ego and everything, but ego and hunting it in itself is particularly particularly rampant among this type of you know, people are really visceral about hunting. We have really strong opinions because it's tied to our heritage and our family eyes, and so different opinions clash really loudly in our in our space. Um, I'll say, social media isn't it's just magnified what's always been there. That's it's just bringing it's just shining a light on something that's the human at that's always been there. And to your point about the hunting industry and these uh, you know, grip and grins and the and the pros doing certain things on on TV. You know, it's unfortunate that, you know, the platform that they have and have had for some time, UM doesn't allow for showing mistakes because the reach that it has. And you know, if you're on cable television and someone just happened to scroll through and stop and they see you, you know, uh, wounding an animal and making a joke about it or something like that, that show is gonna get shut down. So even though they're making those mistakes, they're just not showing them at all. UM. So something for us is is a little bit of contrast. Is again, well that's our focal point. We're we're focusing on the I dropped the thing down the tree stem at play plank. Oh, I forgot my release, I tripped into this thing. I you know, all the common mistakes that even the best hunters have made have made, which is something we call okay as moments. Even if you're not like a complete okais hunter byr like definition, you've still done some stuff that you can laugh at. That piste you off in the moment um years later, it's a great story to tell. UM. So I think to your point, the answer is yes to those things. I think ego is the is the core of it, and then a lot of that has just perpetuate out these other systemic problems. But we ought not to be the head butting the neck off within our own community. And i'll ddd I think you know, for me, as I look at I think it can be a lack of perspective from from people. Right, you've hunted in the same county, on the same farm or the same piece of public and whether it's good or whether it's bad. We don't understand that people are in different circumstances, right. Um, you could have a hunter who's in up in northern Wisconsin big woods, you know, low population to deer hunting and or low population of deer numbers, and you know they're what they define as success or someone in a CWDS. It's gonna have different decisions to make them exactly. You know, their definition of a shooter buck is different than you know my definition of a shooter bucket. I'm hunting in Buffalo County, Wisconsin. I'm curious if if something I experienced recently is something you guys have experienced that kind of led you to where you are now with this um where I had fallen. I've gone so deep down this wormhole we're talking about, where I've been so obsessed with trying to achieve these goals and looked at it like a mission that I had to spare no expense and no like if I took an ounce of time off, I felt bad because I wasn't giving it everything I possibly could and if I wasn't doing everything perfect, I was awful on all these things. And I made, you know, this hunting thing into well, I guess, I guess I'm in a unique situation. I was gonna say, I've made it into my job, but it is my job, so maybe my maybe my story doesn't really work, but um, but what I'm trying to say is that I had gone so deep into putting all this pressure on myself and and whether I wanted to admit it or not, I was comparing myself to other people or judging myself negatively because I wasn't like other people. YadA, YadA, YadA YadA. All of that led me to going on a lot of outings or trips or having a lot of moments where I was not having fun hunting anymore. I was losing the fun of this thing, and that was what I think helped jolt me out of this. Is is kind of realizing that and realizing this's not it's not worth losing the fun of this thing which that has been so transformational in my life in a good way. Uh. Have anyone of you guys had anything and you could have come to in a different way it might have lost is fun because of the negativity in the community or anything like that. But have you guys have ever had a moment where you started to worry about losing the fund? And is that part of what jolted you into this, uh new way looking things? Anyone's that resonate? I think that didn't jolt us into this, that this helped us shed that skin. Okay as Tunner as a brand that we're working in and building and so forth, and spending time on and seeing and talking to folks helped us realize that, you know, uh, Ryan Holiday again on the reference stillness is a key talks about being present and being in the moment and appreciating that. And I found myself like getting mad at deer like by the end of like, which probably wasn't terrible because I'm like really motivated to kill the thing, um, you know. But but I was like, well this is wrong, Like I'm I'm taking the joy out of it because I wasn't getting the results that I wanted even after the effort. It's like studying for a test, taking the tests and still doing bad. It was like, but deer hunting isn't a test. Maybe it is to some degree. You can test yourself into certain scenaries and measure things, but there's no guarantees. There's no like guaranteed outcome. You can put it all the effort in the world. I mean, Derek, you hunted your ass off last season. What do you get? Yeah? Like right, so, but you know, and that's just how it goes. But that's that's the joy of it is the process. And again when you start to really enjoy that process and all, like the preparation, it's like tailgating for a baseball game. Half the fun isn't sitting in the stands. I get a home run, don't go around. That's a great part. But half the fun is like getting ready, buying the Bronts, like cooking all with your friends, playing bag toss, playing catch, you know, walking the stadium, having some peanuts, getting some nachos, like all of that stuff can be replaced with hunting terminology. And we're in a very similar situation. And if it happened to strike, go home run, if we happen to see a deer and actually make a connection on it, that's just bonus. It should always be bonus. So Mark and I can relate to what you what you experienced, do it to a degree, obviously not to your degree. You know, I would say seen, I think I shot my first buck with a bowie. Yeah, I think sixteen. And byen I was like, you know, pressing so hard during the season, it wasn't fun anymore, and it it sucked. You know. I got the end of the season, I was burned out and didn't have a deer to show up for it, and I was miserable. I was glad that the season was over instead of missing it. It's hard, it is, it's so hard in the family, and you know, and that's when like the next year, the next summer, as when you know, I met Eric and we started talking about this and it was like, this is this is what I need personally as a hunter so that I can go out be okay with making mistakes, be okay with not shooting the biggest buck, be okay with maybe not feeling my take, which is probably worth more of the norm than anything else. Um. And you know that that opened up, as Eric said, it shed it, shed the skin and made it okay for me personally. Um, and I enjoyed hunting much more since we've started this. We all get served a piece of humble pie with a side of tag soup every year. So and Mark, I know you said, you're kind of in the process of, you know, like this realization of trying to make hunting back like fun and the way you you know, remembered it. And this is kind of what happened to me. I take white tailed deer hunting more seriously that I absolutely should, and anyone knows me, like that's all I really think about. And do I give Gregg is an outman like hes ducks, like he loves all this stuff. I do that because I'm trying to like occupy a little tiny bit in my life away from deer, because I'm always thinking about it. I drag a boat on the boat every once in a while. We tried to go chase salmon and Charlton Lake, Michigan. So about five years ago I started I started hunting and realizing that I was like feeling the pressure to kill one, not for myself, but just because like I felt pressure to produce because people think of me as like a deer hunting guy, So like, holy crap, what the hell am I doing? Like I'm trying to kill this deer, like so I can get a kill, like because that's what I'm supposed to do. And what helped me kind of get past because it really was bad feeling like it was terrible realization. But I had a good buddy who was a fishing friend, and he asked to me, He's like, dude, can I start bo hunting with you? And I was like that would be awesome. So the process of like taking him through and kind of teaching them and letting him have like all those okayst moments totally like reinvigorated why I do it and like what I enjoy about it. And now Adam is probably crazier than I ever was about it. But like just kind of stepping back and taking my own like you know, pressure and drive out of it hoping someone gets started just totally changed the way I looked at something I've been doing my whole life. Yeah, that's a great that's a great point. And that's that's something I've I've experienced to the last few years, just how how much fun it is to to not only help other people and teach with other people, but just experience it with other people. Again, I mean, I think for a lot of us, and I might be speaking just in my own case, but I think for a lot of people, we come into hunting in some kind of community fashion. Right. There's deer camp, so there's family, friends, or there's a body that takes you out whatever, and so a lot of people's hunting journeys start with that kind of camaraderie. And that's a big part of why we love it. That's a big part of why I loved it was going up to my family deer camp and being up there with my dad and grandpa and uncles and the guys, and I mean, that was so great. But for me at least, and I think this is a relatively common trend for some people. The deeper you get into it, the more hardcore you get. Once once I got to like this terminator mode I was in, it was like, well, I can't afford to go to the deer camp because the deer hunting is there isn't that good anymore. So I need to be on a solo mission to Iowa to hunt seven days straight. And even though my other friends are gonna stop midday to eat lunch uh and get together for breakfast or whatever and bs, I need to be out there every hour of the day. So I'm going to spend all my time in the tree YadA, YadA, YadA. So now all of a sudden, I went from what used to be a community camaraderie kind of thing to all of a sudden, now I'm like a solo assassin that doesn't have time for anybody else, and I lost that. Um So, just trying to reclaim like the community fun part of it is some thing that I realized is such a huge thing too. Yeah. It's like, you know, doar things like trying to solve a puzzle, endless puzzle, and the more pieces you find that the more fun it becomes, the harder it seems to get. It's like perfecting a golf swing. You know, you could probably leve in a golf course and I've never done it before. And I could. I learned pretty quick how to get a ball down the what's it called, don't off the green and down the fairway. But you know, at some point you get you get so good that you know eventually the you get in the red zone, right like, it gets harder to move the ball across the next goal post because there's it's compressed. Um, it's really hard. And one of the things that I think I wrote about on our our website and maybe the swing put in your show notes or something, but we have an article called okay as hunter becoming okay or maybe this is a little bit of you, but we mentioned uh an MM and m M a champion, you know Frank Shamrock that talked about a system that he used to train as fighters called plus minus equals and what oh Amanta was like, have so when that's better than you that you can look up to as a as a mentor, like that person can mentor you have someone that's not as good as you that you can teach because by teaching someone to do something, you are and stilling something in your mind in a way that like is really walking in that information. And have someone that's equal to you that you can spar with. And obviously in the context of fighting, you can imagine if you always gotten rang with someone better and you get your as kicked all the time, you have no confidence. If you only fought with someone that's not as good as you, you'd have too much, you'd probably cocky, you'd beat the crap out of some of all the time. And having that person that's equal to you to spar with, like, really is that building that sparring, that sharpening of you know, steal versus steel. And in deer hunting, I'm sure we all have someone that we could look up to that like, wow, while they're really doing their their style matches my style, their their terrain and where they're at is kind of where I'm at this look similar. I can learn from that person. I think we as hunters all have something we can teach someone else. Even if you just hunted for a single day in your life, you probably learned something with your unique perspective on the world that you could teach someone else. Um And obviously having someone that you can spar with, I greg you and I are you know for I don't know. I think you're better than me, but I think we're equal in some ways, you know, um, one hand washes the other man. I mean, not everybody is gonna be always even evenly matched, yes, but be humble. And wherever you know, you and I go hunting, I try to help you out in any way I can, and you'll look at whatever I'm doing and go, hey, maybe you should do it this way and just take it as constructive criticism and work together. So yeah, I think Mark that you know, getting to be okay is definitely okay. And Derek's plain about teaching someone else read invigorating him. That's a that's a very tactical way to say. Let's see if this jostles at Louis, Let's see if this kind of brings me back to my roots. What do you guys think of What do you think the scale of this, of this feeling? Like if we if we were described this feeling or this set of concerns or whatever, this this thing that you guys have, this theme you've kind of developed your group around and that I'm tapping into here as we discussed this, what's the scale of that across our community? I mean, I think there's one side of me that says, gosh, there's gotta be a lot of this. And there's another part where, you know, I remember I don't know, ten years ago or something when I was just getting really, really really into it, and I remember scrolling through Facebook or Instagram during the hunting season, and it seemed like every single person on the internet was an expert deer hunter, and everybody was killing the biggest buck of their dreams, and everyone was so good and I was the only person that could possibly be struggling. I think sometimes for people who can field that way when they look online, Um, do you think there's a lot of people that feel this way? Or there are a lot of people that are crushing it that like going super hardcore and aren't can earned about it this kind of stuff and just want to keep on killing big bucks. And yeah, it could be some guy that does concrete for living and he's often winners, so he's got all the time in the world, and maybe it's a you know, some people have built the life that they want to live, and if and if you've been fortunate to do that time in the wood to something that not all of us can afford. Um, I think the okayest hunters of the of the hunting community outnumbered the experts by and large. Yeah, that's true. With everything you want to do a math problem, I'll still two thirds of them, two thirds of us hunters are probably okay, and the the other third are you know, upper echelon hunters. They because they have the time, or they have the property or all. How many people watch football versus playing the NFL. You know, there there's a lot of people that play in the NFL, but boy, oh boy, there's way more fans that you know, just love the love being in it. One thing, one thing I've noticed, and I always take this as a pretty good gauge, um, just my experience. I'm always parking in public parking lots and hunt in public land all the time. That's all I on. And the camaraderie and the parking lot. Like you talk about camaraderie with your family, the hunting community, but like the people who share the land with you are your community too. And when I was younger, man, I remember opening days in Wisconsin. Somebody would be pulling out a buck and guys would be kicking dirt, smashing rocks. Can't believe that guy got oh, just pissed that this. You know, somebody else got their deer. And what I've noticed in the last five years and credit I would yeah, their dear right, they had it on camera over the corn pile at midnight. That was his buck. And UM. I remember being younger and just going, what the hell is wrong with these people? Like why can't they be happy the dear dead, like be just say good job and like move on, try to go find a new your deer. The last five or six years, I have talked to more people in parking lots that were friendly than I ever had before. And I would credit a lot of that what the hunting public guys are doing, because they they put out when they talk to people, they don't skip that part of their video. They put it in there, and I think that's helping build the community and a lot of more people are open to other hunters and building camaraderie with the people they're sharing land with. That's a very good thing, Yeah, I think. Um, like, uh, there are over eight hundred thousand uh your hunting licenses sold last year in the state of Wisconsin between gun bow crossbow. UM. I would guess the majority or those are okayst hunters and the small minority, you know, percent are expert hunters. If you compare that to the numbers harvested, you're gonna probably find that out. And there's there's people hunting for content to like literally people that go out with camera crews and they hunt for content. And I don't think that's inherently bad necessarily, Like if it gets someone into Hunt England, they stick with it. Great. Um, that's probably not too many. But you know, some of those people are like literally changing shirts and making separate pictures, are getting third people in and changing the scenery. Like that's a whole different issue. But like to your point about what we're seeing on social media, that's no different than the you know, fake millionaires that go rented a car Lamborghini and hold a couple of bills in front and say you want to get rich, Like you know, that's similar, like you want to kill big deer. You know. Um, it's uh, there's there's always going to be that kind of stuff going on, So just be careful of what you're looking at on the internet or know that like, hey, maybe that person hunts full time hunting public. That's that's their gig there in the woods more than most people. You know, they can afford it. That's what they do. So here's a question, a little devil's advocate kind of question. I suppose, Um, I've always looked at hunting as and again this certain people would this would resonate with some people wouldn't. But for me, I have always had a theory that human beings, most human beings, needs something to push them. They need a challenge, they need a goal, they need something to be working towards. And inherently we enjoy ourselves more when we are growing as human beings, when we're pushing past an obstacle, when we are being challenged to learn new things, to try new things, to struggle and to get through it. And so I have looked at hunting as being like a really really good avenue for that kind of personal growth. Like that for me has been like the iron that has sharpened iron. For me, I thought, man, hunting is this activity that I can do that is not just fun, but it's actually making me a better, more fulfilled person because I have this thing I have to work hard at and I have to constantly get better at it, and I have to push through these things. And so I've looked at it like a personal growth tool as well that it's served that function at least. And and as I I've just been like kind of going through this evolution myself, I've had like some self talk. I'm thinking through all this, and I'm thinking, Okay, does this mean that I relax my goals? Does this mean I settle? Does this mean I'm not striving for whatever it was in the past? And is that okay? Am I just am I getting lazy? Is this like a fancy way of just being lazier? Or is this just an excuse? Am I making excuses for myself for not doing as good as I could it have, or for not trying as hard as I could have, or for you know what I'm saying, like these are these are like some questions in the back of my mind that I'm just exploring with myself. And I'm curious, what do you say to that If someone out there is listening and they're saying, like, Okay, yeah, a lot of these things resonate with me. But at the same time, man, I also hear other people who are reminding me that, man, if you want to achieve something special or that means something to you, you have to work hard. You have to be willing to push through the tough times. Um, And maybe these things do matter to people. So I'm curious, you know, across that large sweeping set of ideas, does any of that make sense? Do you guys have thoughts on that? And where you know where the okay hunter might be able to land in this mix? Yeah? I think so. A mentor of mind, Uh, he did didn't exercise with me. He drew four circles on a piece of paper, and each circle represented a thing I was working on right, different objectives and projects that had going on my life. And he said, you know, you can move these four balls or circles down the field, right. Uh, you know, you kick this one and kick that on and and kick this one. Can You'll get there? You can, It can happen. You can certainly do it. But you could focus on one or two of them, and you could do it a lot faster. And once you get one of those all the way down the field to the goal post, which you're trying to do, maybe it's shoot you. Maybe that's one of those goals. Um. But these other competing things that are also important in my life matter also, So focus on prioritizing whatever one is the most important at this stage in life that you have the most resources and capabilities to do and accomplish, then who's to say you can't. Life is long in five years, ten years, fifteen years, go back and do that other ball, that other thing. So for me right now and I consider family, well, that is the most important thing. My kids are gonna be young once and I don't want to be the dad that couldn't go to this or couldn't go to that because what I had to go chase that deer, Like I'm not gonna have that conversation with them when they're older, when they're not going to know their dad. So I'm gonna be a dad first and foremost. And guess what, when they're older, they can come with me when they're in college and off living their own lives. Like I am now that all the time in the world to go do that other goal and kill that big deer, you know. So it's just it's a matter of perspective, priorities and how you prioritize them. And it's not to say that I can't work as hard as I possibly can at something. Um. I agree with the sentiment that you know, we like to be pushed and that brings out the best in us. But it depends on what that thing is. And it doesn't mean that you can't do it later. You can always get to it later. And maybe by doing the first thing, um, you have more time, energy and resources. If I'm folks on building a business, maybe I'm building a life that I want, and I'll be able to fund um a hunt in other states and go chase bigger deer than I've ever could have done if I just kept trying to do it now. And but the other stuff die in the mine. So that that's a unique perspective that I like to offer. And I'll add I just think I think it's you know, you gotta do what makes you happy, right, So if you're burning out chasing deer and it's gonna make you happy to quote unquote settle forty deer, then do what do what makes you happy? You know? For me, you know, I'm thinking about um, well, this last this past season, Um, my daughter was born November, so I got to bow hunt a total of maybe five days and I did not go out uh at all during gun season. And so like just perspective, right, I wasn't gonna yeah, I wasn't going to sacrifice any of that time, and so I knew if any deer walked by with that had antlers, I was probably going to draw back on it. And I knew that didn't any of this one. Yes, let's not talk about talk. Yeah, I think we running out of time. I like that, So you know this next year. I don't know this coming season on how much time I want to have, but Derek's point, in five years, I might have more time where I can I can push myself a little bit more. You know, before I had kids, I've spent a ton of time in the ton of time in the stand right unsuccessfully most of the time. But I spent a ton of time in the stand and tried to push my health. But right now I know I can't do that, and it's gonna make me happy to spend time with my girls than it is for me to sit there and grind in entry stand. Yeah, Greg, did you have a thought there? Well, I mean I could just share my experience from last year. I mean we know what I was chasing. Yeah, Yeah, I had an opportunity that just didn't quite pan out. It was public, so there was other guys I'm fairly confident, were very certain that they knew that deer was in there, and that area was getting more and more pressure by the week as the season progressed, and I got to the point where every time I turned around, I was finding another cell cam, another scent drag, another bag, another plastic bag land there from whatever snack they were eating. And you know, no matter what I did, like, the sign was getting less and less going through certain areas, and then I did have to settle. I decided it was just time to leave that area and go somewhere else, to another area that I felt confident in, and I took a buck there instead. Was it the monster that I was after? No, but I made a hell of a memory going in there, stand on my back, do what I do what I do, and followed the sign in hung and killed that right away. It went well, so it was okay to be okay. Then, Yeah, it was a lot of fun driving to Pennsylvania to hunt. And I got a text from Greg and it was a picture of it. Here was like, holy crap, he did it? You know, I subject we get so used to like I get to talk to these guys every week about hunting, and stuff we love and usually you're you know your bodies, they're kind of like minded like you are. So like most of my friends I talked about hunting are very driven to get a big buck um. But talking with one of my co workers, who yeah, I'm a hunter, you know, and oh got another hunter. I can talk to him. We have cafeteria dude together, so I get to spend some time with him, and he's explained to me, you know, the hunting. You know, he goes out for Wisconsin gun season. Awesome, I'm like, you soaking it in, Like what do you do? What do you hunt? You know? He finds a spot to sit on the ground, he's I'm going to the library this week. I check out a couple of my favorite books. I just sit out there and read, Oh do you get a deer? Sometimes I like but like that's what enjoyed. But that's that's that's a tradition. That's okay, that's okay. Like some guys have huge goals. I know all of us we have goals every season and what we'd like to do. Some people their goals just to get out and enjoy nature. Because that's not what he does. That's like the whole perspective thing, like you don't know what his situation is, he has no money, he doesn't understand how I think about your hunting is not let me pick out a good bookstand because I just don't do that. I think it's a great idea, I like for something else. But that was like really eye opening, Like talking to him, it's like holy, not no, not at all. I think everybody stores I think I think I think it was Tyler who said it first. Whoever was hard to keep tracking you guys over there, But but someone just brought up the fact that you know, it might be settling for one person, but if it's fun, it's fun. And I think that is is becoming like my my, like north Star is aiming towards what's fun and trying to avoid what's not. And if if a goal is no longer a fun goal to chase them, what's the point of, you know, sharpening your acts to chase something that's that's actually not fulfilling for you at all. But I mean, I think this is this is something that I'm just seeing more and more. I think that this is I think this is a growing trend in our community because you know, While everyone talks about how hunter numbers are down relatively have been, have been going down over the last fifteen years, whatever it is. People talk a lot about how we're losing hunters. That's true, but I think that the number of people that are taking it really, really seriously is growing pretty substantially. So the number of people who you know, like you, Derek or me, who who who like your life revolves around White Hails and you everything goes into it and you don't go to the library to grab a book to sit in the ground on no opening day. Right, there's a whole lot more people that are spending lots of money to get their saddles and their sticks dialed in, and they've got everything taped up, and they know every little patch and corner of public land where there could be a big bucket. They've got their cell cameras all over the place. Like the number of people that go that far with it, that group as is growing. But I do think that that group where there's a lot of growing interest and excitement, there's also this growing pressure and stress that people are putting on themselves because they think, if I've invested this much time, if I've invested this much energy. If I am a part of this community that values this thing, I have to be getting this thing. And I can tell you just like within my own little personal circle of like good hunting buddies. I have so many good hunting buddies who we all claim to love this thing. We all you know, we're group because we love this thing. There's so many times during the hunting season where people are complaining about I hate this, Why am I doing this? I should ut golfing? Uh, you know I'm gonna take up ice fish in a month and a half early now, um, Because everyone's just driving themselves crazy worrying about you know, doing something wrong or messing up the hunt, or somebody else screwing up their hunt, or how come everyone else is getting it. There's just so many stories and examples and people I can think of and myself, including certain examples where we're just we're sucking the fun out of it by virtue of pressure, too much goals, too much stress, too much whatever. Comparison, there's all these different like vultures sitting on the power line looking down at our carcass on the ground, just waiting to come in and take a bite. Um, and I guess my question then, is if the solution is to if the solution is to embracing an okay hunter mindset, whether you're a really good hunter or you're not. Just I think there's an idea here of like an okay hunter mindset. What's the key to doing that? Like, what's the key? What's how can I become a successful quote unquote okayst hunter? That being someone who's you know, embracing the idea of having fun, embracing the mistakes, embracing the balance, embracing the good and the bad, all that kind of stuff. What have you guys found, both with yourselves personally and maybe hearing from other people in your community with kind of chasing this new goal of how we approach hunting? How do we do that better? Uh? You know to two things come to mind, and it is cheesy as it's gonna sound. There's two hashtags that we use. One of them is my tag my hunt, and at that rate, it's I bought the tag with my money. It's literally my hunt, so I'm gonna do what I want with it, and therefore I should think the same towards others. It's their tag and it's their hunt, and if we stop focusing on what other people are doing with their tag, we can then focus on what we're doing with ours to make ourselves feel more fulfilled. And if that spreads enough and people focus inward rather than outward, and that like, if that were to scale, that was like something that could actually scale more people would stop ridiculing others and there'll be less fear of being ridiculed, and it would alleviate some of that pressure. Would be a bit of a relief valve. Um two then you know it kind of I don't fix some of that issue, I suppose. And the other one has never never passed And that's a stark contrast to two people saying let it walk. But what we're really trying to say is never passed on doing what makes you happy, or never passed on making a memory, or never pass on a chance of fili your freezer. You know. Again, tying this into your hunt and focusing inward UM can really help a lot. And and I think Tyler, you made one of the you know, like posts of stop caring what you know about people you don't know, judge your hunt or I don't know how you worded it, but um you know, why do we care about people we don't know judging our hunts, Like it just doesn't matter. Why why should that matter? And I think to that point, they're not judging your hunt, the my tag, my hunt, like when you see a picture on Facebook, your d um the kill, the outcome, and one hunters always say, it's not about the outcome, it's about the hunt. People don't know what your hunt was, they don't know your story was, they don't know what that dear did. They've got you so excited right there, just judging the kill might take my hunt, like you don't know someone else's hunt. Don't judge it, don't judge it based on the kill. Yeah, I'll I'll jump in Dondico greg S, you know, talk about relieving the pressure. I think, you know, we use humor a lot in our messaging because laughter, laughter is a good care for some of the frustrations that happened during hunting season. Yeah, we try to be really really relatable because this stuff happens to everything you see on our social it's like something that has happened to us. It's very relable. And we started to realize like, well, gosh, we're not the only one to dealing with this stuff, so that relatability is really carried on. But Greg, Nathan get a couple of points here, Yeah, I know. I got one other point and another hashtag to add to the call it number three hashtag is shoot deer. If you haven't had a whole lot of experience shooting deer, you haven't had a whole lot of experience tracking deer. You want to get good at that, you need to shoot deer. I mean I went on a long dry spell of not killing anything with my bowl, and all of a sudden, as a service technician out in the field, I had one customer that had a doll problem. There was a suburban area, and that really helped me, hone my shooting skills. How how to how to shoot deer, you know, how to wait for them to move a certain way and when I can draw, and how high I should set my tree stand in certain situations. And you know, there's a lot of learning that went on there. And I went on a really awesome, you know, tirade of just knocking deer down. So take that advantage, you know, or take advantage of that and shoot him when you can. If you have a dough tag, Why are you not using it? Yeah, I think there's a lot of people who I was gonna say, I think there's a lot of people who because of what's portrayed on the media or seen on social media, it's it's easy to think like that. It's you know, even when you're just starting, you have to be holding out for a big buck or whatever. And because of that, like you just said, Greg, Uh, you pass up on so many opportunities to learn, so many opportunities to get better because you think you have to hold out. I mean I had this exact problem. First off, as a kid growing up, I thought I had to shoot a buck for my first year. So I passed up on a thousand does as a kid, uh, and never shot anything until I was like eighteen or nineteen because I wanted that first year to be a buck. That was my first problem. And then I killed that first buck, second buck, and I think after killing my third buck. Ever, at that point, I had consumed enough hunting media and seen enough stuff out there that I thought, Okay, I can't shoot year and a half old bucks anymore. I can only shoot three year older bucks. I have to shoot big bucks now. So I only killed three deer, and now I'm trying to shoot him a relatively mature buck, and and thinking that that was what I had to do, and I probably had a whole lot more learning I could have done. I had a whole lot of could have grown from and enjoyed, had a whole lot of fun if I had, you know, enjoyed those introductory years more versus immediately trying to jump to somewhat you know, expert level status because I thought that's what you had to do. I think I don't think I'm alone in them. Managing expectations a big thing that I think a lot of tough with all the you know, YouTube and in the hunting videos, one thing I always think about. And Greg knows he's going to know the guy when I mentioned it. But he and I went down to public in Illinois and we're doing some hunting and we ran into a guy just outside of one of the parking lots. We got out, we started scouting. There's another car in the parking lot, but it was midday, so we were pretty sure maybe this guy was walking around. We only made it if that from the truck and we ran into the guy. I thought, good, we can talk to him, see if he's going in or out so we don't mess him up. So we go over and he was a first deer hunter, just started. And the guy had the crispy boots, brand new, first set up, brand new Matthews V three. Like, this guy has done some serious research and watched all the right things. Like I think about him all the time, and I'm like, I wonder how that season went for invested this much and like put, I'm sure this guy he had to have three grand wordth of equipment just on him, right, And he's like, I never hunted before, And I was like, I hope he finds some sort of fun or happiness and the hunt, because boy, that would be a really crappy way to realize you don't like hunting after doing right after buying what he thought, you know. So true, And I don't think that guy's alone in that. I think there's probably a lot of people that have taken that same path, and it's just great to see that excitement. But but there's there's a whole lot more to it than having just the right gear, that's for sure. So what about let's lean into a little bit more about Like if I were to if we were to generalize a lot of what I feel like you guys are talking about here, it's it's like focusing on the fun, removing the stress or finding that pressure release valve or whatever, because those might be like the two conflicting um energies that are kind of streaming through hunting as like personally your personal hunting journey and then like the community. Right, there's like the fun side and then there's like this pressure or stress that goes along with it, and we can kind of go leaning more into the stress side, or we can lean more into the fun side. I'm curious if you guys have any other like tactical advice for how to do this, Like an example being, one thing that I've always thought that would make me a lot happier during hunting season would be to remove Facebook and Instagram from my phone and everything during hunting season so that I would never know what anybody else was doing. I would never have anything to compare against. I would never have any reason to feel like I'm not doing that great because I would never see any of the other stuff, and I would never worry about having to post a picture and someone dogging me about whatever, like that's like a tactical thing somebody could do that might just be a pressure release valve to kind of remove yourself from that negativity. I can't do that, but um, I'm curious if there's any things that you guys do or have thought about that have helped you kind of lean into the fund side of being an Okay hunter or release whatever pressure or stress there might have been in the past for you guys, or maybe it's something totally different. Honestly, it's our our community. For me, it's it's knowing that. Um here's here's a terrible example, which is I'm notorious for doing it, so I apologize for for doing this, but we listen to this. So we're going tomorrow morning at five o'clock. We're leaving with my three kids, my my kid's grandparents, and it's going to be a fun trip on a Disney cruise And what is great about that? Yeah? But hear me out. So we went to this a couple of years back when we just had just our daughter and my wife was pregnant with our son. So now we're like, you know, outnumbered, we're playing you know, his own cover, Tom Man a man. But the point is going on that trip versus something like a Royal Caribbean or whatever. We're gonna be around other parents that are going to be we don't just say suffering. Also, there's gonna be other screaming kids. There's gonna be things built into this experience, like changing stations at every turn. There's gonna be ways for moms to do like what they do with pumping and stuff with their bodies. And there's gonna be someone's going to hand a kid and ice cream cone when they're screaming and having a total mountdown. So when you're doing something that's surrounded by a way that can accommodate the lifestyle choices you're making, and think about our community of okay as Hunter. We have a community. We literally have an okay as Hunter crew. We have like a hundred people that have like bowed to be brand uh accolades and or accolytes. Whatever what's for here doesn't thank you yes, So you know, having that support system gives us the bree thing room to feel like we can take that pressure off. So it's it's not necessarily completely tactical, but I put on a dad butt shirt the other day and I'm not super proud of my dad body because I took a lot of pride in my fitness and my physique and I have that is not a thing right now. And I put on my bush like well, you know, but I put the shirt on that way behind ethical and suddenly I feel like it's okay, Hey, I'm wearing this dad bought shirt. I'm part of a community now. Like there's an other guy and they're like cheers that dad bud bro. Like yeah, it's okay. I've left one community, I've joined another one. To have a support system is important and and our community provides that, you know, So I think that's critical. I think, you know, I know people that aren't on social media at all and they never were, so like they don't have to deal with that hard switch of trying to leave it behind that that's a big friction point that would be difficult to do if you get some joy out of that. So that's my two cents on the topic. I would I would agree. I think it's I think it's community and and having a message that's out there right that's different from maybe mainstream and what we see a lot of whether it's YouTube shows on other hunting shows, um, you know what's on it. Instagram with the grip and grin, with the you know, huge bucks. You know, just understanding that there's all the messages out there and having that out, having that visible for for new hunters or wherever people are in their hunting journey to see. I think that's the that's the release point for me personally, and I hope it is for other people too, because I don't think it's realistic to ask people to delete Facebook and Instagram. I mean there's yeah, Well, dude, I'm telling you, I'm gonna differ with you because it's my career. And I deleted the Facebook app and the Twitter app off my phone. So I haven't been able to take Instagram off, but just taking Facebook and Twitter off on my phone. So if I still need to do something for work, I can get on my computer and do it. But by removing the apps on my phone, I have been still maintain my job and keep my career, but dramatically improved my mental well being because the impulse stuff like the you're you know, you've got ten minutes randomly or two minutes in a line, and you flip up and Facebook and start scrolling like I was able to eliminate that, and that has been super tangible. And and I guess that Instagram would be great. That's the next one in my list. But I'm telling you it is doable and it has helped me. So for whatever that's worth. Yeah, that is good, Greg, What about you? What about me? What about Bob? Baby steps? No? I think surrounding yourself with good people. I mean there's a group before of us where we you know, we had our whole group chat going all fall and you know, kind of feel bad for the one guy that couldn't make it out and I'm posting pictures of being in the stand and he's just I can tell his gears got to be grinding a little bit. And it's not to poke at him, but you know, maybe he can live a little vicariously through my pictures or something. You took the words out out of my mouth. I'm not out there, but I hope someone. I hope you're Yeah, so you got the right attitude for it. Not everybody will have that same attitude. Um, but and I enjoy and sharing what's going on. It's not to be bragging about it or anything. It's just, hey, this is what's happening out here, and but having the right people in your core circle. That's probably one of the biggest things. Yeah, for sure, sharing the okayest moments with you guys, like when I stuff up bad because normally I don't share that stuff myself. I don't tell my my other I think buddies were like hardcore, I don't. I don't tell him that I messed up, dropped the climate stick twenty ft and dinged off everyone. I'm not telling. But when we get together our group text, I'm I guess what I just it feels good and let go of that stuff and know you're not getting judged. It feels good. Ye imagine having to admit those things to tens of thousands of people every day on YouTuber podcast. That's that's a lot of fun. Um. So the relatability door opens up and suddenly people start like sharing their stories with you, you know, And that's that's where it's like, oh, well, this isn't that bad, you know it's that or it's they look at and go, you know what you're you guys aren't for me, Okay, we're not for you. That's fine. Well, there's certainly there's certainly a lot of people that do like that kind of thing, because you know, I basically have been living the okayst hunter at least results side of things since I started this whole thing, Like I've been making more mistakes than anyone and talking about it. And I always joked that, Uh, a guy walked up to me. Not a guy, a friend who's also in the white tail world who said that me, said that I had cornered the market on failure in the deer hunting industry. So I've kind of made a kind of made a name of this thing, and somehow people have stuck with me. So there as there must be something to what you guys are saying. Uh, but I want to I want to do something. I want to do like a a little bit like an on air exercise of sorts. Here, Um, let's let's do something. I don't know if it will work, but we're gonna work through this as like a group project out loud. We're gonna think through this idea. Let's say do anything, and just the rest of the group carries me. I want to I want to write the ten commandments for being an Okay, it's hunter. So for someone listening right now, who's thinking, Yeah, you know what, this resonates with me. I want to lean more into this approach to hunting. If we could think of like ten commandments, ten rules, ten words or phrases to live by. Let's let me hear what you guys have, and I'm gonna take a note to keep track of what our ten are. And if if Eric has an idea and Greg you think it's horrible, please call him out and tell him how horrible the idea is so we can narrow down the ten best ideas. I'm to kick us off with the first thing. And I think that it's important to not take yourself too seriously. I like that, don't take yourself too seriously. You just already made way too much pressure on yourself. Remember why you started? Number two, Remember why you started? Keep them coming. Guess I'm liking this. I'm writing them down too. I would say, ever pass and making memories what it's all about. Never passed on making memories. Shooter buck is in the eye of the beholder. I like it. Shooter Bucks in the eye of the beholder. Right, that's four of ten. The way there, Congratulate people you don't know, Like everybody says a good job of your body, but like make a habit out of congratulating anyone and everyone just to build the community aspect. Yes, it's gonna be way better for the community. Do you'll enjoy it, They'll enjoy it. Everybody will be happy. I don't know why it is, but it seems to be it takes a lot more energy to be hateful and in a disresector, disrespectful jerk than it does just to be nice and come over and talk to somebody. You never know, you might make a new friend. I mean, don't you ever wonder, like, who are these people to have the time and energy to talk trash on social media? Some people have really admitted basement is underwear. Yeah no, if some people literally admitted that, they just honestly, it's like that's seen in a dark night. Some people just like to watch the roll burn. Some people literally just want to stir the pot. And they're not even they're not even like actually upset. They're just poking you to get you upset. I don't get people like that. It's weird. I'm like, man, you're jerk. Gosh, that's five out of ten you're asking the wrong crew. No, no, no, we'll come up with something and it just funnel me in the right direction. But something along the lines of like bring a buddy, or like bring some of us mentor somebody everything well not even it's always better when you have somebody to share it with, it is. I mean, they're you're successful, you're not successful. It's always better. You came with me on that one hunt. I mean you and I were on a bunch of honts together this year. Um, Illinois in here close to home. You guys are with me in spirit when I was thrown by all those bucks. You know, you were calling us Stuart. But that was fun. That was so fun. Yeah, We're on our way down to Illinois and Eric's Collins. I'm like, why is it? Why are you calling dude? There's a buck down here? What do I do? Seriously? Go after him? Go after him? Um? Yeah, I think along the lines of go with friends, because friends are always going to be there for you. You know. Point in case I shot that dough, you were there with me. It had been a bit of a drag getting it out by myself. It wasn't terrible, but we were always in there. So I think always be learning is important you know, the moment you think you know it all, you should probably stopped your hunting. Yes, you got to just keep an open mind overall, and I think enjoy that. I think I would add like, always be learning and embrace that, like, don't feel bad that you don't know at all. Actually get a kick out of the fact you've got more to learn, Right Mark, Mark, I think you got it just talking with Eric and like here in his mindset. But the okay as Hunter isn't just like a bunch of groups of bad hunters. Like everyone who I feel like listens and like is along with us on the jersey. Everybody wants to get better, Like there's no way that. Yeah, I want everybody everyone they're here because they want to learn something. They want to get better, right, Like the okay It's Hunter is not just a bunch of jackasses walking around the ones Like people want to get better. Every having that goal is like an important part and people's goals just differ. Can I throw one in? I'm not I'm not part of the official crew, but let me say if this had passed the test, if you want to, I think, don't say anything. If you can't say, well, what's what's the old phrase like if you've got nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all. I mean it goes back to the congratulating people you don't know. But like, hey, if you have a thought on someone else's buck online, you don't think that they waited long enough for you think it's too small or whatever. You think the shot placement wasn't great, Keep that to yourself, Like we don't need any more negativity out there, right, Like if lead by example, yep, Yeah, I think it goes back to every situation is different. You don't know what happened there. Yeah, So I would say my mindfulness of the hunting journey, like if that's the thing, you know, and and that's for yourself and for others, like you know again taking that fresh cup yourself, maybe your hunting journey has changed, You're in a different course for a little bit, Like it's okay, it's okay. Never pass up a chance to hunt with family, m that's important. Like you mentioned Iowa thing before Mark, and I kind of related to that, Like you get a chance to go hunt somewhere really good, but if you have a chance to hunt with family, I think that's far more importantly. Chasing a big deer because you don't know when the next time you'll be able to enjoy that moment. Like it's okay to make mistakes. That's like that, like celebrate failures literally. Now we're twelve. Now we're twelve guys. Yeah, er, can't I get a shot of bourbon for that? This is this is good stuff. This is good stuff. So let me let me read back the the eleven that I captured. Okay, and then if you want to cut any one of these from the list, you can. But this is this is what we have and this is this is a really nice way of uh getting a synopsis of our conversation here to day. Number one of our ten commandments to being an okay hunter. Don't take yourself too seriously. Number two. Remember where you started. Number three. Never passed on making memories. Number four. Remember that a shooter buck is in the eye of the beholder. Number five. Congratulate people you don't know. Number six. Bring a buddy. Number seven. Always be learning and enjoy that. Number eight. If you don't have anything nice to say, keep it to yourself. Number nine. Be mindful of the hunting journey and how everyone's is different and number ten, never pass up on time with family, and an extra credit was celebrate failure. What do you think? Is that a pretty list? We got the ok eleven, not the ten commands crossed out. That's a true eleven point right there. That's pretty good stuff. Uh huh so, uh so, guys, this is uh, this is a bid fun Is there anything that we haven't touched on that you have a burning desire to get out there? Is there something that you really wanted to talk about that we haven't yet, or do you feel like we've got a sense of of how to really embrace the the okay side of the Hunter in each of us. I think we captured the essence really well, and if we wanted to go on, you know more, maybe that's great for another go around at some other point where we could get some hot button topics that have been boiling up. But I don't think that's a good fit for how we just wrap this thing up right now? So then, uh don't where can folks go to to tap into what you guys are doing? Where can folks find more of your content? Everywhere? But no, you can Okay, it's Hunter dot com and that's okay, A y e s t because I say it fast. Uh. You know, we have okayst Hunter podcast dot com as well, but you know, really you're going to see us on TikTok heavy, Instagram, heavy, Facebook. We have um a couple of groups on Facebook, the Shooter Buck Club. We have the Okay so on our crew that people can join if they want to really kind of get close to the community and have that camaraderie and there's some benefit to being in that community. But you know, we're on giffy. If you if you go on your iPhone or Facebook and you type in Okay's Hunter as a gift, you're gonna find some and Derek's spitting out some sort of tree nut or something weird. Yeah, swinging on a vine. You know we're really uh yeah, so we're we're I think fairly omnipresent across the digital Twitter to Twitter. We're proud of Twitter, Twitter, awesome, Instagram podcast. There you are, there you are now. Well, thank you guys, Eric Derrek, Greg Tyler. This is this is just what I needed tonight. So thank you, thank you, Thanks for having us. Cheers. I appreciate it and that is a rap. Appreciate you being here. Thanks for tuning in. I enjoyed this one. I appreciate you joining me. You know, it's gonna be an interesting year. I'm gonna be looking at a whole a whole lot of different things within my hunting life. Right, a few weeks ago, we talked about how I'm re examining how I shoot. This week we're talking about how I'm going to re examine somewhat of how I approached my season, and and the goals and stresses and and all that around of it. Um, I don't know a lot of change for me, interesting stuff. Hopefully this is something you can relate, to learn something from, or just laugh at. I don't know what it is, but I appreciate you being here with me through it all. So until next time, thank you, and stay wired to hunt.