00:00:02 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm your host, Mark Kenyan, and this is episode number three eighty and today in the show, we're discussing year two of our efforts to transform the Meat eaterback forty into a wildlife paradise and the roller coaster first hunt on the property this year that led to my dad's very first dear with the bow. All right, welcome to the Wired Hunt podcast, brought to you by on X. Today is a good day. We've got a great podcast for you today, a story that I am just really really excited to share. Um, we're coming off of one of the best most memorable hunts of my life and probably at least to some degree, uh, our guests on the podcast here as well, definitely one of them that the third member might think this is an oky story. I don't know. Um, well, here's what we have with you today in the show. We've got my father, David Kenyon back on the show. Dad, thank you for being on the podcast again. Dave Pleasure and then also, shoot, you know what I was gonna try to check this with you before we start our core. But we have Justin and I'm gonna pronounce your name wrong. Is it Michell? Michelle? Michelle? Dang it Justin Michelle. Sorry, I bost your name Justin. Everyone does. For years, like before we actually worked together or did anything, I always pronounced it my cow and then and then someone recently was like, no, that's very wrong, and everything I had I think Spencer had to ask three times. So so so for everyone listening. Justin Um is one of the cameramen for the Back forty TV show. So Justin and my dad spent a lot of time and myself, all three of us spent a lot of time together last week hunting on the Back forty. It was the first hunt of the year out there, and we had a heck of a hunt. As as I tease in the very beginning, you kind of get to hear the ending before you hear the beginning. But it was a successful hunt. It was an awesome hunt. But I want you guys all to understand how we got here. So I want to tell two stories that eventually become intertwined and lead us to the culmination of last week. One story is the story of the Back forty, how that started this project and where that's led us to now in year two, all the things and hopes and goals and dreams we had in the beginning, all the changes we had to make this year based off of what we learned last year and everything that that kind of came to fruition for us um inter October. And then the second story I want to explore a little bit is my dad's story and what led him to this hunt in this past week, because I think there's some interesting things we can learn from both of those stories, and those stories come together in a really cool way, and we'll come together in a really cool way in uh episode four of season two of The Back Forty, which for all of us listening now, that first episode of the season will come out on November one, I believe, or at least sometime in early November, and then Dad's Hunt will be episode four, which will probably be towards the end of November. So you're gonna get a sneak peek as far as the story right now. So I guess what I would like you two to do, if you're willing, is jumping at any point I'm going to kind of set the stage here with with a little bit of a recap on the back forty. But if you guys have any questions, or if you guys need to clarify something, or if you think I'm totally off based on something and you want to call bs, you can do jump in and say that. Um, you know, Dad, you got to see the farm last year a couple of times. You got to hunt it last year, Justin, you weren't here last year, but obviously this summer you got to be part of a lot of that work, um in August and now this hunt. So you guys both have a different perspective and I think that can help kind of color what I'm trying to share too. So that is the game plan. Dad, Are you on board for that? Justin? Justin? Are you on board for that? For sure? Let's do it all right, So let's set the stage from the beginning. For anyone who's new about what this whole back forty things. The back forty is a project that we started over at Meat Eater in which we wanted to find and eventually purchase a small property, kind of unremarkable, nondescript property. Uh and see if we could transform this little piece of ground into something really special. Could we take a small farm In this case, we found a sixty four acre farm that was about half old fields, half timber and swamp. Could we change the thing that had not been managed in the past. Can we change this thing and transform it into a great deer hunting property and a great general holistic ecosystem for everything? Can we manage not just for big deer, but can we manage for bees and butterflies and birds and small mammals and turkeys and native plant life and good soil. Could we try to do the right thing for everything and still have our cake to write, have our deer, our big deer, our fun hunting. Can you do it all? That was the question. That's what we've tried to do and tried to learn about what does that mean and how you can be a good steward while also having something that you can harvest from the land as well. And that led us to finding this little place last year, purchasing it, started to do some work. We did some initial habitatent provements last year, but it was all very last minute. Um. We just got started in August. Basically, we got to put in a few small food plots. Um we got. I tried to plant some plot screens, basically some tall sorghum, which I hoped was going to break up these wide open fields. But a lot of that stuff did not work out very well. Um. To further illustrate what we're working with here, just a little bit in case you aren't familiar with all this, the sixty four acres, as it mentioned about half timber and swamp half old fields. Uh, the old fields mostly last year, we're just this invasive mayor's tail weed and a little bit of golden rod. Then you had this big swamp in the middle, and that was really the the hub of the wheel of this property. That was the thing that I was most excited about and that I thought would be, um, the saving grace of this property, because at least in places like southern Michigan they have a lot of hunters. I've come to find that you really need something like that, some kind of really great security cover to keep at least the occasional older deer around. So whenever I find a deep swamp, I know there was at least a chance that some good deer could be in there. Um, while in otherwise open timber or ad country, it's just it's just tougher to find him around me at least. So that's what I thought we had. I had searched out a property that had that kind of feature while also being in an area that generally, from everything I could find out from any research I did, from talking to neighbors that generally seemed to be in a good neighborhood, so surrounded by folks that we're thinking somewhat similarly to how we were, which was trying to manage for wildlife, trying to manage for more deer or older deer, or a better managed balanced deer her that's what we're hoping to accomplish, and and I tried to find a place where that seemed to be on the minds of other people too. So that is what we had last year. Um, you know, the hunting season did not go the way I was hoping it would. Um. A lot of the habitat improvements that tried to make, as I just described, didn't come in. The food plots were you know, not as impactful as they thought they might be. They came in pretty thin and sparse. Um. I think we probably I only had an acre and a half of food total. Maybe the screens that I tried to plant basically failed completely, and so these fields were just wide open. That mayor's tale lost his leaves once the fall arrived, and it was just just barren, kind of a desert for wildlife. And because of that, very little deer traffic in those things in those areas during daylight, and it led to some relatively uneventful hunting. UM. I saw some deer the first couple of nights, and then it quickly quickly decreased, had a bunch of dud hunts, hunted during the rut and saw very little deer activity. Kind of got lucky on the fourth day of our rut hunt and uh, there was a big mature buck in the area, not very big antler wise, but a big bodied but sure deer the wide eight. I called him and I did get a crack at him. But that was the only decent buck we saw a season, the only mature buck we saw season. UM, so at a high level of frustrating, disappointing. And Dad, you came out, you got to have this hunt, and I know you were really excited to come out on the back forty I've been kind of hyping up this property we had and we were trying to improve, and I wanted to get you this great opportunity to to get a crack at a buck with your crossbow. And it didn't really pan out the way or hoping, did it. No, no, what not, not as much as we had hoped, obviously, And because of all the work that you had done, even though I know it just started in August, um, you've still done an awful lot of work to prepare the property and all the working on the food plots, etcetera. And then just just you know that the excitement of being out there. I was looking forward to seeing a lot of deer, and um just saw a couple and passed on that five um, um, And that was pretty much it from the time we wash. You know it will elaborate on this more, but most of your hunting has been up in northern Michigan, where we just don't see very many deers. So I had these high hopes of bringing you down to the southern part of the state, at least farther south than we traditionally do, and being in a higher deer density area, you'd you'd have an exciting hunt and to didn't pan out, so it was it was one of many disappointments last year. Um, justin you watched the back forty I'm assuming maybe you didn't, but I'm assuming you watched the back forty uh last year from from from what? Yeah, from Afar from Afar? What were what were your thoughts on the on the whole idea, the gist of what we tried to do, and then what you saw after year one? Was it was it surprising? Does it? Was it kind of what you expected from a year one of this kind of thing. I don't know, do you have any thoughts from that first year? Yeah? I mean I I love the idea of it because I thought that what it what it did was, um created a situation that so many people have, you know, like not everyone has the luxury of getting three four pieces or leases and things like yeah, but um, you know, sixty three acres is not out of the questions. So and it's and it's not like you adopted even a piece that was already established well enough that you could sort of piggyback on it, you know. It was like it really was super stripped down, which I guess in a sense gave you, uh, you know, you could do whatever you wanted. I never quite understood why. And I was going to ask you as you were going through that, like what did you think failed as far as like what what were the causes of the plots and everything just not taken off like it did this year. Okay, so there's a few things I can point to, and then there's still some unknowns. Um. I think you know, one thing that I knew going into is that these old fields, I just didn't know if they would stay thick into the hunting season, and and then if they did not, you know, would it hold any wild life at all? And so I tried to plant that screening cover. I knew that getting some kind of visual barriers to break up these fields, to have some structure, I knew that was gonna be really important. So I tried to plant those things. But I tried to plant them in a no till way. And and this is because we've been trying to adopt this regenerative agriculture practice when planting food plots and crops on the farm, where you try to avoid disturbing the soil um for a whole bunch of different reasons. By not plowing the soil, you can keep more nutrient uh mic microbial life going in the soils. There's a lot of things that you keep in the ground that you want in the ground by not plowing it up. So early last year, I guess early summer um when I knew I needed to plant the screening cover, I was trying to say, Okay, how do I plant this stuff no till when I don't have a no till drill. We didn't have a drill. We later got a drill um, but I didn't have one at that point. So I had heard of approach called throwing mo Basically, the idea was that you could um broadcast seed over an area and then mow all the brush that was there over top of it. And if you could do that right around a rain, you would get the seed on top of the soil, and then the grass and brush would fall on top of the seed, and then it would form a layer of mulch that would hold moisture tight to that seed on the ground and get you germination. That's the idea, and and this works. People say this works, and it's a productive way to plant no till food plots. If you don't have the equipment, Um, it just didn't work well for us. I it didn't work. So there were a few places we've got some grow, but there was a lot that simply didn't come up at all. So because of that, I didn't have the cover we wanted. I came in and actually tried to plant screens again the first week of August, and I actually did try to lightly work the soil and get something planted there, and I had a little growth, but it wasn't, you know, just enough time. So that gave us no structure, no visual barriers across the fields. And then, as I described earlier, the cover that wasn't there, the Mayor's tail, it essentially becomes like a bean stock with no leaves, no beans, nothing on it. So it was it was the worst kind of old field you could ask for. So you had just a wide open barren field, which I think was just a much more of a detriment that I, you know, was imagining it would be. I didn't think it would be that bad, but it was. So that was a big thing. As far as the food plots, I don't know what I did wrong last year, but it was my first time ever using a no till drill. It was my first time using a mix quite like that, and for some reason the crops didn't come in as full as I thought they would have. I think one thing I have learned. I've been using uh A Genesis three by RTP Outdoors, which is a drill you can pull behind your UTV and it's it's great. I love it. Um what I've learned, and I think this is the privately the case with any drill that's just the first time I've ever used a drill, is that making one pass it's really easy. I thought I'll just go over everything once and then that would cover it all. But you kind of forget that it's easy to miss a row, or it's easy to miss a spot, or even when you have these kind of evenly spaced rows, there's a lot of space in between. Still um, and I probably should have done like almost like a checkerboard pattern. Maybe should have done a bunch of runs up one way and then come across and criss cross him or something, just to completely fill it out better. I didn't do that. So in short, I underseated last year. So between underseating and maybe not knowing exactly how to set the seed right properly or different things. I was just sort of figuring out. And then finally, UM, I just for some reason did not get good germination of the Brassicas within our plot mix. So I had a lot of oats and wheat, but the Brassicas didn't take at all almost so I had some good early early season attracting UH food, but then nothing for the rest of the season. And so for all those reasons UH and the fact that I just didn't have a lot planted again last minute trying to get something in the ground quick, I was worried about also making the plots too big, because I was worried about being able to get in and out of the farm without spooking deer. So I thought, if I keep the plots really tiny, and you know, if I keep narrow and in these little low spots, we might be able to sneak around without deer seeing us and spooking all the time. UM. I thought that was I thought that would be okay, And I have something little, these little ice cream shops right out around the property, and there'd be enough deer in the area using the swamp and traveling back and forth and I didn't need a ton of food in the farm. That's what my thought was. But as the season progressed, I realized that wasn't the case. Um. We just did not have a lot of deer spending time in the farm, not a lot of deer passing through. UM. Other than one or two hunts, almost every set was like one deer, two dear, no dear. It was very very very slow um. Which led me to this year the spring thinking, okay, probably the two very most important things we need to do are related to these old fields, and that is number one. Thicken them ups, find some way to turn this waste land into some place that wildlife actually want to spend in daylight. So that was number one, and the number two dramatically increase the quantity and quality of the food. Those are the two very most important things I saw that would be able to transform this to to at least be a viable place to see, you know, see a lot of deer in turkeys and other critters. So that is that was where my head was at as wrapped up UM, which leads we had a lot of high hopes. We had big plans, a lot of big products. When we wanted to try, and then COVID hit and all of our spring plans, all of our spring guests, all of our spring projects basically got canceled and put on the back burner and just just really changed a lot of what we're gonna do. So I kind of just threw together a couple of little things I could do by myself or with a couple local people that could help me with things. Um but I was able to do a couple of things that didn't make a difference. One thing I was able to do to address these old fields was I wanted to get some new base of grassy cover out there, so we frosted switch grass. The way I did this is I first applied an herbicide treatment too large swaths of these old fields that would kill off the mayor's tail and stop anything else like that from growing up and give the switch grass a chance to grow. That worked, I frosted the switch grass. Frost seeding, for those that are familiar, is basically going in and just broadcasting, so so spreading seed on top of the ground during the early early spring when they're still freezing and thawing happening, So when you're still gonna get hard frost and then thaws and freeze and thoughts. When that happens, the ground expands and contracts, expands and contracts, and it slowly settles the seed down into the ground by virtue of that effect. So that's what I did, and this had to one expected benefit. One unexpected benefit they expected was that the herbicide treatment knocked out the mayor's tale and it allowed the sum of the switch grass to get to get going. The second thing, which I guess I knew in theory but I wasn't thinking about, is that not only did it remove the mayor's tail to help the switch grass, but even in places where the switch grass didn't come in great, what it did do is it opened up possibilities for all the other seeds that were already in the seed bank. So what came up across all these old fields was a vastly more diverse, thick, lush blanket of different types of vegetation. So we got all sorts of different types of grasses as well as my switch grass. That planet, we got a number of different big bushy everything from golden rod to oh gosh, I'm blanking on some of the different things I've seen out there now. But if you were to go and look at what these old fields looked like last summer versus the end of this summer, It's it's like the difference between looking at a monoculture soybean field and looking at a wildflower garden where there's just all these different types of things. Uh speaking. You know, it's funny, Mark because when you say that, I'm sorry for interrupting, but yeah, you just really called out the way I felt about it this year. I couldn't believe the difference. Um. And you know, I kind of forgot about how mono culture everything was last year, but when I saw it this year, it was just just um uh, so green and so full and so rich. Um. It was hard for me to remember what it was like last year. Just dramatically different. And what made me really think about that was when you mentioned the golden rods. There's wildflowers everywhere throughout the property, just incredible. Yeah, a lot of it's just a lot more vegetation at different heights, at different widths. Um. It's it's just we've seen a tremendous amount of bird life, butterflies, bugs, um. We we flushed a woodcock last week. Do you remember that justin Uh, that was pretty cool. Yeah, I was there with you too. It's it's really hard for me to believe, hard for me to believe that this change occurred in one year. It's just dramatic. And I remember I asked you that mark, you know, I said, it's hard for me to believe that this could happen in one year and that the change be so pervasive and so broad across the property. Um, it feels like you should have been worked on this for three or four years to see that kind of result. Well, I'd love to take credit for it all myself, but but I also think that a lot of this, a lot of this goes back to just the power of mother nature. Right Sometimes if we just if we get some of if we clear a few obstacles all the way, mother nature can do amazing things if we let it do what it naturally wants to do. And I think in a lot of ways, that's what we've tried to do here. And so by removing one invasive species, which is this mayor's tale that came in here and the reason why it came in here because the farm used to be you know, farmed over and over and over and over and over and over and over again the same way. And then when it stopped, when they stopped farming it like that, the very first thing that's able to take a foothold is this invasive weed May's tale and a few other things like it. So so that's what took over this farm and took over these fields. But but naturally nature doesn't want that. Nature does not want a monoculture. There's no monoculture in the real world unless humans put it there or influenced it in some way. Nature wants diversity. And so what I did is we use a little human intervention to knock out that monoculture, and then mother Nature came right back in and filled it in with all the good stuff that that she wanted to and that ends up being great for all the deer and birds and and everything. Um So, a little bit of what I'm finding is that you can press certain buttons, you can make an influence here or there, but it but it kind of comes down to finding ways to not fight nature but kind of open up. It's like, rather than trying to build a damn and damn up a river, I'd rather work with the river and maybe put a put a log here that moves the current a little more to the left. Or maybe I'm gonna put a boulder in the river over here so it flows a little more to the right. Or maybe if there's a dam in the river over here, I'm to open up a couple of holes in it and and try to find ways to to do what Mother Nature wants to do. But but maybe just influence it help us in certain ways. Um. But when it's when it's kind of like give and take and you try to harness the power of what's already going on, that seems to be when you see the most success. And and maybe that's what's going on here. Um. And and that certainly has been the case with those old fields. I also did do a little bit of seating of some pockets of wildflowers, so I did some of that myself, but a lot of it naturally seated all over the place. So that was the case where I tried to help it along. But but nature did a whole lot more than I did there. Mark, how much do you think the resident depopulation that you put in made an impact on just the diversity and the flowering plants in particular. Obviously we're impacted by that to some extent. Did that have any impact do you think or not? You know, I have no way to to be able to quantify that, because, yeah, I forgot to mention we we brought in to honey bee hives onto the property, which which they're definitely helping with pollinating. There's something like a hundred thousand bees between those two hives, so there's a lot of new pollinators on the landscape. I just don't know how to put any kind of figure behind that and tell you if it makes a noticeable difference. But I do know that, I mean, there are certainly farmers out there who bring in honey bee hives at certain parts of the year to make sure their crops get pollinated well enough. Um, And we do know across a large parts of the country we're having significant reductions in pollinators species and honey bees and other bugs like that. There's some real issues with with bugs out there, very important bugs that are doing important things for our crops and our plant life. So I think you certainly could say that they must have helped some I just don't know. I don't know how to how to put a value on it, but some of it didn't certainly didn't hurt, that's for sure. Well it's interesting you use that like that damn or that a river flow analogy. Um, but because I was thinking, man, uh, you know, I climbed and was like crawling through so much of that stuff filming that. I mean, I saw I don't know what was there last year. But it's like when you go in and you do your part to get rid of that monoculture. Um, it's like everything that should be there ended up there this year, you know what I mean, It's like there. I mean, I don't know how far ahead you want to get, but uh, man, so many deer, so many insects, tons of not to want coyotes, but I mean, everything just seemed to be in place this year, you know what I mean. Yeah, Yeah, it's a it's a jungle and uh and that's what all these critters wanted. So it was cool to see that happen. And it was cool to see that some of that switch grass did come in. So we've got a base of grass us with this diversity of other things around it. We planned some of those wildflowers. I also did try planting those sorghum screens again. And what I took from last year is that, you know what I want to practice for gender culture in a lot of ways. We want to experiment with it and learn about it, but I don't know how to make it work with these screens. I really need this screening cover in these old fields. We needed that vertical visual barrier to keep these things from being tennantcro open fields and instead be compartmentalized and have this diversity of of height and security for deer and other animals. So I decided that we were going to lightly disk a few spots to get that in. It's a compromise I had to make um and I think for the greater the I don't know what, but it worked. It made a big difference. It made a big difference. I mean you could just see again, jumping ahead a little bit, when we fat in that blind looking out over the food plot and looking to the left and looking at the right, you could see those screens on all four sides of us right, and you could see why it made the deer feel comfortable. It was funny because when we're up on the tree stand, you know, I can see them across there, but It wasn't until I got on the ground again and looked around me after you know, the next day and that sort of thing, and then realized just how tall those were. Those had to be eight ten ft tass screens. Um. It provided a lot of cover and protection for the deer. Yeah, So for people at home, try to envision this. Imagine you had six fields that last year. Essentially we're like dried soybean fields. If you've ever been in soybean field after the leaves fall off, they're just those little gray stocks, um, And that's that's it. That's kind of what the fields are like last year. Now this year, imagine those six old fields, which total about thirty two acres of our property, so about half. Now imagine those fields. Now have you know, hip to chest height, to shoulder height in some case tall weeds and bushes and grasses and all this different stuff that's everywhere. And then in each one of these fields, some of them more, some of them less. We have long strips. Sometimes it was a straight line. Sometimes it's a half circle of this crop sorghum, which essentially it looks like corn, but it's grown to twelve fourteen foot tall. So you have these walls and these half circles of what looks like corn, which is totally creating these big barriers. Essentially, it's like a jungle of trees in this area that now is spread out in different pockets across these fields. So instead of being a why don't get right open bean field? Essentially, now you almost have a crp field mixed with forest kind of created in a haphazard way in one year, um you get that kind of effect at least, so all of a sudden, deer can walk out there instead of feeling they're in the open ten acres, they can be in a little area of a half acre and they don't realize that there's all this other stuff around them because they're enclosed, and they feel a lot more comfortable. That the ideas that hypothetically they feel a lot more comfortable coming out there. That was the hope coming into this hunting season. So we did the screens, we did the herbicide treatment, we planned the switch grass, we planted the wildflowers. In August, we came in and we planted trees. We planted pockets of trees across the property, across all these old fields. We mowed out little areas, maybe I don't know, ten yards by ten yards wide, little circles, and we would plant three or four or five evergreen trees in each one of these pockets. And I tried to choose areas where there's little rises in the topography that might be the kind of spot that someday a few deer might want to bed where this winter I did see some deer beds um places where where wildlife would naturally want to be if they had the cover they needed there. And that's where I planted these pockets of evergreens. We planned some white pines, some white cedar, some spruce um, a few things like that. So the idea here is that these grasses that we planted, the sorghum we planted, the all the native stuff that came up. That all helps right now, but a long term solution to get more, you know, long term cover and structure out there that we don't need to continuously be replanting like we will with the sorghum trees. Eventually, in year one, year, two year, three down the road, those are gonna grow out, They're gonna fill out, they're gonna become these little islands of a different type of cover out there, where deer can bed, where rabbits can hide, where birds can nest. You again have a different type of cover out there. So we keep adding diversity. So we went from this same blank canvas too, now a canvas that has splotches of all these different things all over the place. And that's what nature wants. That's what deer one, that's what turkeys want. They want edge, they want diversity, they want security. With the trees, we add a new bit of that. And this year it's not gonna do a ton for us because they're young trees, the three ft four foot tall trees, they're spaced out. But a couple of years from now, whoever's hunting and enjoying this place, I think it's going to see a lot of activity going from tree pocket to tree pocket and little bedding areas, a couple of does here and there, bucks checking these spots, um sign posting on these spots. I think it's goll be very cool down the road. So that's another thing we did. We then went on and worked on version two of the food plots. Version two of the food plots was trying to address all those issues. I listened out to you earlier. So I tried to plant um a little thicker than I did last year. I tried to um not only UM make sure I am a mixed right, but also I wanted to cover off and kind of give myself a safety valve on that so that even if I underseated with the drill too much, I was gonna go over top of it and broadcast a mix of brassicas as well. So basically that that late season food source that we didn't get last year. I was a little worried that by drilling it in there with the oats and wheat and all that stuff, maybe it was it was wasn't getting the right soil depth or for whatever reason wasn't coming up well within that mix. So I I drilled in a mix from drop time seed. It was it was called the fall reload, which was a mixture of brassicas and oats and clovers and triggic ically and I don't know all all sorts of different things rape and turnips. Drilled that in and then we went over top of it all and just broadcast more brassica's to spread out all over to fill in any gaps we might have had UM just to cover off on any mistakes when it came to my seating. So I did that, and maybe most importantly, I significantly increased the size of these food plots. We went from about an acre and a half of plots last year to somewhere around three three and a half acres this year, so essentially three x or close to three x the quantity of food on the property. And we also changed the design of the food plots a little bit. Last year, I kind of plopped them down a few places, and I was worried about them being too big. And this year I kind of learned after seeing how some deer used the property last year, I learned how the deer wanted to travel, and I discovered that there are some some spots that I wanted to hunt last year, but the wind would be blowing to where deer want to go too, and so they come into our food plots. But because of where I put those plots, when they did come into them, they'd eventually get into my wind. Uh. This year I rechanged that. I changed the directions and these plots moved. I went more from like a square shape for those plots too long linear shaped plots um kind of like a highway of green stretching across a couple of different places. This is an idea that Jeff Sturg just really pounded home with me and with a lot of people took his idea and implemented that here. Um. So that's what we did from the food plot perspective. The last thing we did, and this was done in the spring. I forgot to mention this, but we did some improvements to the area we called the honey Hoole. This honey hole is this ridge that runs along one part of the property that last year we found out had a native prairie remnant native prairie ecosystem in there. So it's a part of the property where there is still the native grassland species that we had a hundred years ago, two years ago before we farmed everything down. We have a little pocket of this stuff. It's big blue stump grass, little blue stump grass, a bunch of other species that I can't remember the names of. But we had in the colleges come out and he told us that this was a really special, rare place that we we should really try to nurture. Um. He recommended to do that we should cut down all the trees and the brush in there, and we should burn it. Now. That kind of concerned me though, because this area was full of cedar trees and automolive and buck thorn and just thick, nasty bushes and great looking deer habitat. So one of the big questions last year is can we do the thing that that our ecologist Dan is recommending we do to to nurture this native prairie while still keeping the good deer habitat in there. That was the question. The way I tried to answer this year was to do a little bit of both. I tried to remove some of the autumn olive and buck thorne by going in there early this spring and cutting down a bunch of that and then applying an herbicide to the trunk of those cut trees to keep them from coming back. So I cut out pockets of it. I didn't cut it all out, but I cut out pockets. So instead of a big wine open ridge of just grass, it was coves and little bays and some strips and some openings. But then other ompenings or other spots where there's still were cedars, there still were bushes, so again diversity. And then we did go in there and do a prescribed fire. In May April April, I guess April or May somewhere in there, we did a prescribed burn with the help of Dan and burned it, which essentially takes all the old stuff, the dead thatch that was out there, removes any leaf, litter, dead grass, anything was on top of the soil. So it opens up everything to new sunlight. It that heat kind of reinvigorates the soil and the nutrient life in there and kind of makes everything more fertile. It brings in a thicker, more diverse growth the next summer after the burn. And and that's what we saw when we came back in later in the year and took a look at the honey Hoole after the burn. You know, justin you were there with me when we walked in there. Not only was there tons of grass and flowers and all sorts of different things in there now, but there was still deer beds everywhere, dear turds everywhere. I mean, the place was littered with deer sign So we we improved and helped nurture along that native prairie, but we made it maybe even better for deer um, which was again a really nice um illustration or example of something that we're trying to do, trying to do both of these things, you know, So that was what we did from a habitate perspective. Do you feel like I missed anything justin that you saw or that's worth bringing it up? Well, I it was interesting to me that as we were going through that after the burn and after the regrowth that I mean that that big blue stem was chest and head high. I mean, it looked so rich. And you know what we noticed too, was like that was definitely something that you wanted to kind of nurture back you know, from a state that you know, like you said, when the farm came through a kind of like jarred everything backwards. But you know, we noticed when we were sitting in that blind the first night that that big blue stem now has like started to seat itself outside of the honey hole where it was originally burned. Yeah, exactly, which is awesome to see. It's it's going to continue to expand its footprint. And that's another example of just kind of help my other nature along and let her do her thing. And uh, I think we're starting to see that too. So from a habitat perspective. That's what we did. Um. We also made some hunting changes. Primarily the biggest things we did UM in August was trying to better set up the property for our guest hunters last year. Um, everything came together kind of last minute. So I did some scouting. I kind of prepped some trees to hunt with a saddle, but I didn't really have anything very well set up for our guests, people that weren't going to hunt from a saddle or portable trees. Damn. So like for my hunt with you, Dad, I just have some ground blends that had to pop up at the last minute. UM, And you know, I think for both of us it was hard to see from those it was bad not great positioning. Um. Would you agree that those ground blinds setups were okay but certainly not nearly as ideal as the setup we had this time around? Oh no, comparison, Yeah, absolutely great. What we had this time was phenomenal. Yeah. So so what we had this time was we decided to get three big tower blinds. UM. The ones we got are called Landmark blinds. They're from a company called River's Edge, and basically it's it's like a box blind up on a tower, but instead of being made from wood or fiberglass or anything like that, this is just like a metal frame with waterproof canvas exterior. Um which was relatively easy. I mean, it was the challenge to put together a little bit. And I gotta tell you that we had some guys from the company come and help us, a guy in particular, Jake your Godsend, thank you for your help. He came and helped us put together some of these um uh. But what they're not crazy heavy, they're not crazy hard to move around. It ended up being a pretty cool thing that we were able to do with myself and Tony Peterson. We were put up one of them by ourselves, and then Justin and Charlie other cameraman helped us with a couple more. So. We have these three ten foot tall towers with a box blind on top that we set up in three different fields overlooking some of these food plots. Each one of these I put next to a betting area. So every one of these setups is next to a food plot that's right on the edge of one of our best betting airs in the farm. And one of them was set up just outside the honey hoole as you alluded to justin. One of them was set up in field number four, right by where you and I hunted last year dead and then one of them was in field three on the west side of the property, so we have one east wind spot. Um and yeah, I was hoping for something to give people a better view as far as distance, that would give people better shot opportunities, that would, um, you know, just just be much better position for for you, Dad, or for our hunt winners coming out later this year, or a new hunter that's coming out this year. Um, I'm hoping for more comfortable, more productive sets for those people. And uh. And and that led us to the first hunt to to test on all these things, which just happened last week. UM. So that's the story in the habitat stuff. Dad, Do you have any questions as far as habitat or anything else you want to bring up as far as what you saw or things you were curious about, Um, anything as far as the farm and the changes we made or things like that. Well, you know, all I would say is just reiterating the things that you've already brought up. I was really surprised at the difference. And I didn't spend a lot of time um at the farm you know last year, a couple of days, but just the just the difference in the on the cover, particularly the star gum and you know, the food plot layouts. I mean it was it was like being on a I guess it was frontant purposes. I was hunting on a completely different property, um, and just the difference was so dramatic to me. I was really surprised. Um. And back to those uh, those uh elevated minds. The other thing I really liked about those is the flexibility had in the windows, right setting those up and opening and closing. And we had a couple of several times where we just had a you know, an inch inch and a half crack basically in the back around the side, just enough that you be kind of looking through it and get an idea for dear coming through. I think it's just the whole setup was a lot more um conducive to really being stealth and really having not just a comfortable set, but also being well positioned when you did see there. Yeah. Yeah, the windows, I really do like those. You essentially have sliding canvas. I don't know it means it's just the canvas exterior, but they're almost like how you can slide curtains, But these curtains could go either horizontally or vertically, so you can slide them left and right, or you could slide them up and down and essentially customize whatever size or shape opening you want. If you want vertical windows, you can make them. If you want horizontal windows, you can make them. I really like that. Um. Okay, So that brings us to the beginning of hunting season. Um. This hunt was exciting for me for two reasons. Particularly exciting for me for two reasons. One was on the selfish side, and that was I wanted to see the results of everything we did. As I just described. You know, I put a lot of work, and we all put in a lot of work this spring and summer, whether it be the camera guys like you justin, whether it be the guests that came out and helped me. Um. You know, there was a lot of time and sweat and energy putting this. So big thank you to people like Doug During, Dan j Jo, Tony Peterson, Dan's a Um, Rob Hobby, Nick George, all the various folks over the course of the year that have lended a hand, thank you. UM. So all of that just had me so interested and excited to to see, Okay, can you actually change something in a year and see a big difference the way I was hoping you could. So the first hunt obviously is the real litmus test of that. So I was excited for that. But number two, I was really excited because I was trying to I wanted to fulfill a promise or fulfill a hope that I had that we started last year, which is helping you Dad have a really special hunt. UM. And you know, as some folks have heard and some of our prior podcasts um last year's episode. UM, you know, you've dealt with a variety of challenges over the course of your hunting life that have made things tougher than some other people. And you haven't one or be some stuff you've dealt with or the places you've hunted. You know, our deer camp up north, you wan't say a lot, dear. There's a number of things that have just kind of made it tougher for you to have a good chance at a buck or a deer of any kind with your bow. And I thought, man, we're gonna get my dad down here in the back forty and we're gonna get him that first dear with the bow. We're gonna get you your biggest buck ever. And last year was just a flop. So I thought, maybe this is the year we could do it. Uh. And so many of the changes I made, I was actually thinking specifically about this hunt, so really setting up these blinds and food plots and locations, thinking about, okay, on October five, where do I need to have this tower blind? So my dad's gonna get a good crack in a buck. Um. So all that was leading up to this point. Um, So that's where my head was a dead. Would you be willing at all to talk to me a little bit about or talk to us a little bit about where your head was a leading up to this um and kind of talk about some of the challenges you dealt woods leading up to this um with getting into archery and bow hunting. Um. I think getting a little history there would be helpful to kind of color color this whole week. Sure. Sure, yeah, So, Um, you know, as you know, Mark, we've hunted for a long time as a family, right Grandpa had me out in the woods hunting when I was four or five years old. Like I had you out in the woods when we were four or five years old. The difference was we always rifle hunted, so we really did very little bow hunting when I grew up, very low. Grandpa had a straight bow, but I don't think I ever saw him shoot it. For us, it was just and and we we were for us November fift through was hunting Seasan. That's when we went up and when we got the cabin, and you know, we had the you know, it was it was a religious right. We went up there, you know, the day before maybe two days before opening day, and we stayed an entire week if we could, or came up the following weekend and and Thanksgiving weekend and um as you know, um, you know our cabin up north. Uh we had a lot of deer for a number of deer, never big deer years ago, but that kind of for whatever reason, um, the number of deer leveled off quite a bit ten fifteen years ago. And uh so you know, we still went up as a family, we still did our hunt, but we had really low expectations about you know, the number of deer. We're gonna see and the number of antlers we're gonna see, and everyone's you know, occasionally every year or two we'd get a deer between the four or five of us that went up, but just not not the numbers and the quantity. So you know, that's part of what I was so excited about. And and not that I don't love to hunt it up at the cabin, because I really do, but it's for to some extent, its for different reasons. You know, I'd love to see a big buck of mature deer walk out in front of me, but I don't typically expect that. Um So, yeah, back to your your point about you know some of the challenges. Um So, I've always rifle hunted my entire life, and as as you know, and we've talked about before. Um you know, I I have a low vision, visually paired. So for me, basically what my vision is without correction is what you can see at two hundred feet I see at twenty um. And you know, I have a telescope, a small telescope of my glasses that gives me a magnified vision of whatever is I'm looking at. But it's really hard to use something like that in the woods. Right, it just doesn't work well at all. And as you and I talked about Mark, you know, you asked me sometime over the week, you said, what, Dad, why do you why do you why aren't you wearing your glasses with the telescope when we go out in the woods. And what I explained was, Um, I used to do that. It used to build out all the time. And I've spooked a lot of deer because of this, because there's a you know, going between the glasses, um, the binoculars and then ultimately your scope on your for on a cross bow. Uh, there's this too much movement. It's too difficult to do all that, be able to see the deer, see the movement, see the you know, whatever it is you're you're trying to determine as a deer or not, and um, and just not spook. So UM, I tried something different the last couple of hunts where I just have left the classes behind. And uh so I'm particularly blind in that case. But the advantage is it minimizes the amount of movement and the blind so that I'm basically working between the binoculars and the scope and use the binoculars for the most part, because that gives me the ability to be able to see the deer. So you know, those are some challenges that I've had. I guess the other thing is because you and I, UM, and I can't recall whether it's your idea or my idea or both. You know, we got into bow hunting back in the early two thousand's, right and one, and bought a couple of compound bows and uh, you know you took to that right away, and that was that was really your passion pretty quickly. UM. And I was always kind of a casual hunter with the bowl, Um, go out behind the house or up a ken roban or whatever. But you know, I'm honest and it would say that I've never had the certainly the level of proficiency and the level of skill that you have. UM. And you know that's kind of compounded by for me, it's quite honestly, UM, it's really difficult for me to see target. So UM, that's why ten years ago or so, maybe eight years ago, I moved over to a crossbow, not so much because of the cross bow itself, but because you could use the scope. For me, that gives me the ability to be able to you know, see the animal and make sure that I can get a good bearing on it. So you know, those are some of the things that uh uh, you know. I just say in general, everybody has something. Some of us have physical elements, some of us have other kinds of challenges that we work with in life. And um, so I don't consider that to be any different than anybody else. I just have to work on them in different ways. And that's how I did it did hunting. Has has you make it sound really easy when you say all that I think I'm getting it. You make it sound really easy. Um, but I don't think it has been. Has it been tough? Have you had times when you thought why am I doing this? Or can I do this? Or have you done things and thought, you know, this is never gonna come together? Because because I know that the vision I We've said this a thousand times. I never can really know what it is that you're seeing and experiencing, but I can I know it can't be easy. Um, how have you How is that I'm having a horrible time coming up with the right question. You're dad, but maybe you're you're my dad and you get me. Do you do you get what I'm trying to say, how how have you dealt with that? Yeah, well, you know, quite honestly, I was quite a bit of time, a good part of that period of time, where I went hunting fully expecting that I wasn't gonna see a deer, expecting I wasn't gonna shoot anything. And that does you know, at first, you kind of work your way through that, and but after a while that does get a little discouraging. So I think you know when um uh all that really began to change four or five, six years ago, and a lot of that was because of humor. I mean, I think you've certainly taught me a lot, But I think also we've had the opportunity to do a lot of these things together, right, and uh, I think I think the just being able to get out of the woods have the opportunity to really, um uh sit and have the opportunity and I guess maybe just not take it. So when I say not take it so seriously, I don't mean I don't mean not trying to be the best hunter you can be, but not not take it as a personal affront. If you don't see a deer or shoot a deer in the woods, Um, I had to kind of get over that, is what I'm saying, because that was definitely a challenge because the number of deer. I mean, how many times have you been You and I have been in the woods together and we tell the story about you know, the two or three deer out of ahead of us yards you see them clear as day and I can't see them. I mean, I have a lot of stories like that, and uh, but to some extent, I just had to get over it, right and say, if I don't see him, fine, Um. You know, the biggest challenge is not that you don't see the deer. It's it's knowing that there's probably dear that I should have seen or could have seen but didn't and then lost the opportunity to take a shot. That's actually I think a little more um frustrating from me than the ladder. And I've kind of adapted over the years, and like I said, that's why I hunt um entirely with binoculars now and I scan much more than I ever did before, which I know is a little frustrating for you sometimes, Mark, because you know that's that's certainly a risk that I'm going to be spotted and there's more movement than normally would you would have on the woods. But for me, if I can't see them, it kind of doesn't matter whether it's dare in front of me, right, So that's kind of the technique that I that I use. Yeah, Like I tell you, there's There's been a lot of things throughout life, UM, that I've noticed growing up with you, and in a consistent thing is that that you have always taken the situation head on and never complained about things. You never said woe was me, or you never would let it really get to you or make you give up. You would simply adapt and make the best of situations and then learn how to to enjoy whatever it was. And I think that's something that you've illustrated in a really clear way with hunting. For me, growing up, I I had the tendency, as anyone listening to the show knows too, to get overly wrapped up in the results and to get so mission focused. I'm very achievement oriented, as you know, UM, and you're a great example of you are that way too in many cases. But there are also other parts of your life where you've gotten really good at enjoying things just for the process or just for the activity itself. Results be damned. And and that's a really important reminder for a lot of us to not give up, to not uh quit something just because it doesn't come easy for you, but but to to to push through, to persevere, to to find the joy in it. Still. Um, yeah, that's go ahead say something. Yeah, well I was going to say that. I think I think you can also overcome an awful lot if you just um, focus and and try not to get frustrated. I think that's uh um. And as you say to persevere, um, there's we're we are capable of as human beings of much more than we sometimes give ourselves credit for. And um, and you can overcome lots of different disabilities and challenges and issues m through sheer force of will and hum. And there's some things you can write. I mean, if you deer's out ahead of me fifty yards or a hundred years, you know, and I can't see it. I can't see it. But as as we tell the story about the hunt, you know, there's there's some things that happened in that that you know, if if it had been five years ago, ten years ago, Um, I don't think I would have had a chance to to shoot or kill that deer. Um, But because of strategies and techniques and then the uh, what I've learned over the years is you know, by darn, I'm going to do whatever it takes to to accomplish this task. And if I don't, I'm not going to kick myself. I mean, this is not about about me being um less than or not capable of it's it's it's life and we all have those challenges. But that doesn't mean I'm gonna let up, and it doesn't mean that I'm not going to strive and right to be better at whatever I'm doing and do my best to be the very best that I can be at whatever the task is. And that's that's kind of the and that's the way we've lived our lives, Mark, and I think you certainly do too. And I think that's a perfect setup then to move into this hunt. So we did all these things, we did this work. Um, we had this history that kind of was leading us to this hunt, Dad, where you and I had hunted together and we've had our challenges and you've had your challenges, and I've wanted to, you know, be able to share some hunts with you again in a place where we could see some deer and where you might have a different kind of opportunity. All brings us to here, to season two of the back Ford. The first ton of the year, we made all these changes, put a bunch of trail cameras out, and at the end of the summer I started checking them, and I start checking them through September, and so prior to our first day of hunting, I pulled up all the trail camera pictures and I showed you all the bucks that have been showing up on the back Fording and people that last year, you'll know that for the first couple of months, like August and September, there was hardly any bucks at all, hardly any deer at all that the hunting season. There was a couple. There was the wide eight that I killed, but there was not a lot of action. Basically one mature buck, two mature bucks storry, but one that just so a couple of times dead. What did you think when I started taking you through the one, two, three, four, or five, six, seven, eight, nine different possible mature bucks that had been moving in and out of the property. I got pumped. I really got pumped. I really got excited, just the sheer number and the size, and then just the beautiful deer um and what was the count mark fifteen I think at one count of relatively mature deer that we've seen very irregularly across all the the sell cams and and tro cams that you had around property. I mean, I was I couldn't believe what I saw. Yeah, and I don't. I don't remember what the exact numbers, but there's at least eight that I showed you in the beginning, and that was three or four year old bucks I thought were three or four year old bucks. So they're three or sorry, three or older. So there was a handful of two year olds and stuff on there that I don't think I did show you at all. So, yes, at a high level, a night and day difference as far as the number of deer, both bucks and dozes, and the property, a night and day difference, as far as how many bucks in the quality of bucks that are hanging out and hanging around consistently. It wasn't like it was a one time showing. We are seeing these deer show up on camera over and over and over again. That's what I was, just a resident population, a big mature duct box. I mean that was surprising to me. Yeah, so that I'll lead us to hunt number one. I was very excited. You were very excited, justin where you excited. What were you thinking at this point? I was excited. I I mean, your dad, I'm gonna back up here, um, man, Like, uh, he is amazing because you know, despite the fact that he was you know, we've addressed the issue that you know of his vision, but man, I feel like he had such a refreshing way of seeing things that I might be doing in a mundane way that was super inspiring to me. So even even going through those trail camp pictures, you know, like, I mean like I've been to ken Rove and now and I've heard the stories and I've seen the buck wall, and I mean he, like Dave was just so dang pumped to see deer and that was super fresh for me, you know. So, I mean he is like Christmas morning. Every time you flipped to a new deer. It was amazing because I kind of knew what was coming and you were like, what is that the last one? You want to see another? And Yeah, he was. He was just riding the roller coaster. It was amazing. Yeah. Well, and you know, some of it was just the contrast from last year too. Just it was so neat to to see the fruits of your labor, mark and the labor of everybody else that went into this. I mean, yes, I was really excited to see all these really big year but I was just really excited that that you've been so successful. And again I think you mentioned at a minument a good mark, But I guess to me, these weren't passing through deer. They were residents on the property. You saw him in the mornings, you saw him at night, you saw him a week later. They were staying in that area, which I think to me indicated that there's a lot they want in that property. They aren't just passing through. So yeah, it was I was really excited, I admit it, and that probably set me up a little bit for the first time in a good and a bad way. All right. So it's night number one. We're very excited. We saw a bunch of bucks on trail camera. Um, all this work had been put into the property, were set up in this tower blind that is right on the edge of the honey hole. So we have like the best betting air and the property with a beautiful little green food plot right next to it, and then our tower blind on the down wind side of all that, there's a oak tree just on the edge of the honey hoole. It's trapping acorns. Um. I have a camera in their cell camera that was telling us that deer had been in there a lot and coming out. I had another camera about a hundred yards behind us down wind of us. Were not quite down within us, but but down into the south of us that have been getting a lot of bucks going that way. So a new we were in between the two, and all that told me that this should be a really really good spot. This should be a good night. We got all settled in there. Um it looked beautiful. I mean it really. It looked like the way things are supposed to look when you're gonna have a hunt. Right Like you're sitting there like, oh, yeah, this looks this looks good, right, just said what just add deer exactly? And uh, and dad, you wanna you want to walk us through the the rest of the hunt in the deer setings because justin madding, justin made a great point. You were like a kid in the candy store every time we saw something. Yeah, so I was really excited, obviously, and I was overlooking this this food pot. The other thing I don't think you mentioned it, Mark, is that there was another food plot a little bit to the it would have been the north right, um that we kind of overlooked him. We were watching the main food plot. Going back to the elevator blinds and the way these these windows work and stuff. The visibility, the ability to be able to see across this food plot was just incredible. It was amazing. And we thought we'd see deer coming out of the hunting hole into the food plot. Um, maybe from the left from the field or to the left that might come in, or as Mark indicated, from the back. I don't think Mark, that we expected the deer to come from where they came from, did we? Did? You? I knew that some would you know? Last year I saw some deer were going to that plot. Um, I didn't. I didn't expect the vast or all of the deer to come out there though. That didn't set that Yeah, yeah, that to me, I was just really surprised by that. But anyway, so we went through the night really excited. Um the sun. So we're facing west pretty much due west, maybe a little bit um northwest, but so we were seeing the sunset as it came down. It was just a beautiful day. And uh, we get to maybe six o'clock or so, you know, the long shadows were forming across kind of the witching hour and uh um and you know, I think it was you Mark that saw it first. There was a deer that came from to this food plot to the north. It's just adjacent to the one we were really overlooking, and came from the left from the west out into this food plot, just feeding. Um. And I can't remember Mark, that was a that was a dough. The first year I think we saw was justin first of it was the year and a half? All bluck, that was the year and a half? Was that the one? Oh, that's probably the one. Wasn't that one? Wasn't It wasn't It was a spike um And you know, let's let's uh, let's hit pause here because there's one thing that happened before the deer showed up that's important to point out. Before the deer came out, we had a little conversation. We said, okay, Dad, what are what are the what are the goals or standards for the hunt tonight? What do you want to shoot? And so walk me through what you decide you wanted to do for night number one and through the rest of the hunt. Because right for me, right I target mature bucks. That's like my thing. But given everything we talked about, that's not necessarily your thing. What was your plan? Yeah, so as I thought, it was perfectly logical, right, a very logical approach. We have um five nights to hunt at that point, and I said, well, you know, since we have so much time, we've got this all planned out. We've got to three different places we can hunt throughout the property. You know, I'm going to go after a two or three year old deer tonight and and go after a mature buck for me anyway, typically mature buck, and um, you know, I'm gonna be a little pick here and then maybe it'll be a little less picky tomorrow and then the last couple of days of the hunt. But I hadn't shot anything by then, then I'll know I'll break my standards down and shoot anything that's legal at that point. And so that's especially what I said, right, Mark. Yeah, and I think you said you even more specifically said you wanted to shoot one of those targed buck the first night. Um, that's one of those those big eight ones. Um. Yeah, I think you called up the heavy eight. That was the one that was trying. Well, he was the one you really wanted, was the heavy eight. But then there was another like six or seven other like nice three year old or older bucks that have been shown up. Yeah, I believe me, I was going to be a real picky. I wouldn't taken any of them. Yeah, they're all they're all nice, dear. Um, that felt really doable that first night as well. It did. It did, especially after seeing all the trail camp pictures. Yeah. So okay, So as you stated, that first deer stepped out in the neighboring field, it was a year and a half old spike or four or something in You're excited, we're seeing deer. And you could see it well too, right with your ban oculars on that Yeah, I could see it well from the boculars. Right. It was still probably seventy five hundred yards away. It was ways away, but I could see it Um, the lighting was good, you know, he was down feeding. Um, he walked a little bit. And then a few minutes later Mark said, oh, there's another or another deer coming again. I can't remember if that was you know. Um. By the time we're done, we saw so many deer. It was, I mean, it was. It was one of the most exciting hunts of my life. Even though even though ultimately, uh you know, it didn't work out. It was the most exciting hunt of my life. I think I'm short of the other night. So just because of the number of deer we saw. Yeah. So eventually, at one point there was four different Bucks in the food plot, which had you ever seen four Bucks at once ever before? No, I haven't, so four Bucks, and they were both all they were fighting. So it's two pairs of two sparring with each other in the food plot, which which is really cool. You've never seen a dear fight before? No, I had it. Um, So there was a whole lot of first happening that was it was so it was I had leading into this hunt anxiety around. I just wanted to give you a show, like a really good time. I wanted this to be like what you dreamed it would be. So when those bucks. For when the first buck came out in the second buck, and I saw how excited you were, and then a third one and the fourth one. You're saying, I've never seen this, and you were so excited right there. I was like, yes, I did it, Like we did it. This is this is it, this is awesome. They were deering the property. You were really excited about doing something, seeing something you've never seen before. It was it was that was a super cool moment. Um. So the bucks are fighting, some does come out. It's awesome. And I'm telling you all a long kid. That's a year and a half old spike. That's a year and a half old. Four pointer. That's a year and a half old. Six pointer. That's a year and a half old seven pointer. Um. But they're all just year and a half and they're doing the thing. They're doing the thing. And then eventually some of them start kind of walking our way, so going from field five towards us in field six. Um, and how about so this is all happening, we're watching it. We're excited. Um. But they then start coming into our plot and I'm gonna let you take it from here. Dead the four pointer and the seven pointer. Two year and a half olds step into our side of the fence row. So there's a tree line between these two food plots. They step on to our side. Um, take it from there. Yeah, So the southern pointer came in and he's probably would just say thirty five years mark years. Well you're really you're really, you're really fast forward it here. I was going to give a little more in between. So, um, so they're all over in the tree line and oh man, they're coming in. They're coming in. Him like, yeah, he's at seventy yards. Um, just that year and a half old, though, and then he keeps walking closer and and then I see you pull your crossbow up, and I'm like, all right, uh, well he's coming in. It's your hunting daddy. Do whatever you want, but just just a year and a half old, um. And then uh, and then I'll let you take a fair Things progressed so quickly there they did. And of course I didn't know appropriate deer hunting etiquette with my son, so you know, I brought up the brought up the crossbow, and of course all the conversation we had had at the beginning of the night, I just totally forgot quite honestly, I got pumped. I got popped. Steer coming across the field and I brought up a crossbow and uh, you know, put the scope on that that southern point right now. He was moving, not not real fast, but he was moving a bit. And um, he came across the field and or the food pot, and I think, you know, I definitely had a case of deer fever fever going and as he was coming across, he turned a little bit towards us, and I think at that point so I neither one of you anything noticed if I turned or I took my safety off. But at that point I decided. I didn't verbalize it, apparently, but I decided I was going to take this deer. There was a lot of chatter going on in Dave's Yeah, there's a lot of oh shoot, uh should I do? Oh shoot? You know, trusting, a whole lot of chatter. It was just I just whatever reason, when I saw that deer, I got to that point, I just said I'm gonna do it. I just did share. It wasn't my inside voice, it was my outside voice. I was like, oh crap, I don't know what he's about to do, but I gotta try and do this camera. Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry about that, buddy. Well anyway, you know, um, I think at that point it was shaking pretty good and excited and just determined to take this deer and put it put it on the deer um Again. I don't think Mark had any idea I was going to shoot. I did the c you know, I wasn't. The deer just jumped in the air and ran back towards the towards the woodline at the far end of the food plot. And and quite honestly, I didn't know if I'd hit him or not. I think get a good view as the as the bolt came out of the cross bowl and didn't know. Mark almost immediately said, Dad, I think it went over his back. You know, I think you think you missed it, sure that we probably missed it. And I'm kind of thinking my back when how do you know you didn't shoot it? Uh? You know? Then I thought, you know, you probably right and I'm probably wrong. But and then of course the adrenaline starts winding down and thinking, oh crap. Now, the good news is I'd much rather miss a deer than wounded deer. Um. So on the one hand, um, you know, I'm feeling really disappointed that I probably missed the steer. But the other part of me is saying, well, yeah, but you know, I'd rather do that than take a bad shot and have an animal that's eventually going to die out in the woods, etcetera, etcetera. Um, and so you know, kind of did the adrenaline crash, right, So this is this is the proverbial roller coaster, you know, the adrenaline Russia and the adrenaline crash. And as we're sitting there talking about it, etcetera, and I'm thinking about the events that occurred, etcetera. Now it's getting closer to what would you guys say, six you know, maybe twenty minutes before, maybe a little bit more than that, maybe half an hour before last night. And suddenly Mark says, our deer. And sure enough, here comes another deer coming from that same food pot to the to the north, um and the same path that the other deer took. And uh again, um again Mark, I don't remember if that was the one of the dope, because we did see a couple of dough in that batch. But but there are another four bucks that came across with that too, right. Yeah, this was right at last light, with like ten minutes left a daylight or fifteen minutes of daylight. And yeah, another four bucks came across the way heading towards us. And then two of these bucks were shooters. Um. One was like a tight and tall I think eight or nine pointer, and the other one was the buck we're calling little dropping, a beautiful ten pointer with a kind of a drop time coming off of his main beam. Uh, real nice buck. And they they were coming in but kind of hung up at about eighty yards, just on the edge of the kind of connecting point between the two plots, and they hung up there. It's kind of looking around and weren't really happy of the situation. Um, And it should be pointing out that after you shot at that buck, it spooked a whole bunch of does and other young bucks. And then he does behind us. So for like a half hour forty minutes we had does blowing behind us and all sorts of crap. So there was some commotion there. So I don't know what, but those bucks came and just didn't quite like the situation, but they didn't spook. They just stopped and then fed right there until dark and that was and that was the night. Just going back to emotionally, for me, it was one of the neatest experiences of the best hunt I've ever had, just because of the ups and downs on the number of deer we saw right and just the way they came in, and I mean, it was just really exciting. So I had a ball, even though I shot Mr Deer, I had a ball. And it's just amazing to me that those uh, you know, four or five six deer that came in after the shot still came in and even though they didn't come quite into our food pot. Um. You know, they didn't seem like they were terribly bothered. They didn't seem spooked at all. I like your optimism. Um, they were a little bothered. They were definitely they were definitely on edge, um, but not so much that they didn't leave. But they were head up staring at direction for a while, and just you know, they were something was off, but not so much that they left. So you're very happy and you're very upbeat right now because of how it all ended. But we need to talk about how you felt that night, because when the night ended, and we filmed all the crap way to film, and we went and we looked for your bolt, and we double checked, and we watched the footage to make sure we didn't see a hit. And we went and searched and search for any blood, made sure there was no blood, made sure all that stuff. So it took a long time. We finally got back to the truck, Um, and you and I were driving home. Um, you weren't all fuzzy, smiley happy. Best hunt in my life that night. And I think it's worth talking about this because a lot of people have missed dear, A lot of people will miss dear. This is something that we all kind of have to deal with at one point or another. UM, talk to me about that. How how are we processing? How are you thinking about it? You were You're pretty low at the moment. Yeah, you know, UM, I think it was really when Justin went back and went through frame by frame and saw the boat go over the deer's back. That's when I realized, because you know, uh, that was still holding out some hope that maybe, you know, we had gotten a good hit, and and that he just you know, he's back behind the food plot and that back in the hunting hole right waiting for us to pick him up. So once once I heard that from from Justin again, you know, I'm kind of looking at the bright side. I'm glad I didn't wound the deer. I'd rather miss him than wound him. But yeah, Mark, and I'm thinking, um, you know, shoot especially with all the talk, especially with all the preparation. Um, you know, I still missed the deer. Now, I know some of that was was a little bit of buck fever, but you know, I take that very seriously, and I'm not frivolous, and uh you know, I don't shoot wild. I'm very intentional about shooting any animal right because we were taught that as kids. You know, you respect nature and respect the animals. You're if you're going to shoot them, you shoot to kill. And uh so, yeah, I was discouraged Monday night, and you know, thinking about so I had to tell you this, Mark. I actually you know I told Mom later on, I said, when you know, so, you're seriously Monday night, I was almost thinking about saying, hey, Mark, you know, maybe maybe we ought to call it and you know, you can go hunt for the next three or four days and um, then you have a chance of getting one of these big deer. I don't want to miss another deer out there, and I don't want to you know, uh, you know, provide a bad perspective for you and the group. But as we talked about it in the way back and as I thought about it more that night and then on Tuesday, of course, well, I guess a couple of things. One is, we did a lot of shooting on Tuesday, and um, that was really helpful for me. Not that I hadn't practiced quite a bit before, but but there was just I think just m taking that time in the in the in the having had that experience on Monday night with the hunt, um really forced me, I think to do a couple of things. One was to to really look at my technique. We did sit in the crossbow and we I think we found that the sighting wasn't quite right. Whether that I can't blame the miss on that, but um, it's certainly impacted my confidence. Um when I saw that, you know that the that the wasn't cited in properly to the extent that it should have been either. So I think, you know, doing what we did on Tuesday to to practice and and sit it in again and do some of the other things we did. And I I also kind of stepped back and looked at my technique and evaluating my technique a little bit more and came up with some little small things that I think, um improved my confidence and improved the you know, my grouping as well. And um, and I just I think decided on Tuesday that I'm going to be a lot more deliberate when I shoot a deer next. And secondly, I'm going to apply some of these uh these uh things that that we've talked about and that I was trying to practice on Tuesday. So yeah, And then but having said that, I think, um, I was so excited about the number of deer that we had seen and the fact that even after the misshot, we had a large number, including a couple of more mature deer come into into the shooting area, that I wanted to go back to the honey hall. And when we debated back and forth, and you know, UM, so I let's you take it from their mark because you can provide your perspective. Yeah, I want to I want to talk a little bit more about what's going on here um, because again it was a real inflection point in the whole hunt. UM, and I think maybe even for your future hunts to some degree. UM. A lot of new hunters get it into this and they right away think that, you know, they can. They're watching people on TV shoot big mature bucks or shoot deer, and they think they should be able to go out there right away and do it just like they washed, or just like they heard on the podcast, or just like they've seen the magazines. And you can learn a lot from listening to a podcast or watching a show, or you know, having a buddy walking through the woods and talk to you about stuff. But there's some things you can only truly learn and grow from by way of experience. And one of those things is shots at deer. And I think that this is something where you were put in a position that you haven't been in very often, and that every time you have this experience, you're gonna get a little better at. And there was a lot of stuff that happened that you know, you hadn't lined up on a deer with the crossbow and ever, or who knows when, I don't know when you've been able to line up on a dealer with a cross. But this is something you have not been able to do very often, So it shouldn't have been a surprise to you at anyone that a lot of things would happen that would be new or surprising, buck fever or whatever. Um. So that was something we talked about that night. Another thing we talked about is something that I've had to do when I've missed here, and I've missed plenty over the years, and that is after it happens that night, I'm gonna I'm gonna feel the pain. I'm gonna kick myself, I'm gonna beat myself up, I'm gonna feel how crappy it feels to have missed a deer and to have let myself down in that way. And I'm gonna let myself have that. But the next day, when I wake up, now it's done. What happened, happened, The water's under the bridge. I can't change that. All I can change. All I have control over now is what I do next, how I grow from it, how I learned from it, how I move forward. And so everything from day two on is all about growing from it. How do we make sure that doesn't happen again. And so I basically said, all right, tonight, it's shitty, It's okay. You can be mad, go to sleep, lose a little sleep, whatever it is. Feel it fully experienced that emotion right now. But tomorrow it's done and over with. We're gonna make sure that thing is started in amazing and you're gonna shoot and shoot and shoot and shoot until you feel confident again. We're gonna double check all your equipment to make sure everything's consistent, everything's the same. We ended up changing your broadheads. We did a few other things to make sure that everything was as dialed as we possibly could and get you to a place where you felt confident with both your gear and just your mental state, which I think is is is important to do both of those things. And so and so that's what we did. And we decided to go back to the same place the next night because we did see a lot of dear. Uh, we did spook some dear, but other deer still came back, and there was a lot of other deer on camera that weren't there that night that maybe could move through um. And it wasn't the best place of anywhere in the farm. I think that was our best spot in general, as far as cameras and historical data could tell us. And so I went back in on day two. In my head, I'll tell you, Dad, Um, you were you had all your emotions going on from night number one. I had a sort of a different set of emotions. Um, you really threw me off when you shot that deer. I'll tell you that first. Uh, you scared the crap on of me. Literally, I haven't seen the footage, but I have a good verbal I go or something. I made some kind of verbal noise when you shot because it scared me so much because I didn't know you're gonna do that. Um, but then you know it just it. I saw my plan coming together exactly how I thought it was gonna come together, and then this changed it, and my all, like my specific some dreams for what I thought was gonna happen in the big box coming for you, all that like kind of shattered down around me. And so my selfish side in my head was thinking, oh, ship, this is screwing everything up. Uh, what are we gonna do? This could blow up the whole area. How are we going to make up for this? Tomorrow is tomorrow gonna be horrible. Um. You know I got I got negative in my head too, and so I kind of had to go through a similar mental talk kind of situation as you had to do your own thing. I had my own thing where I had to say, Okay, that happened, what happened, happened, that's hunting things happen. How do we carry on the next day and so and so. Eventually we made the decision we made, and I think we can move through hunt number two pretty quick because we went in there and I was moderately optimistic. It was mostly just hopeful. Um, you seem to be very optimistic. Um. But in the back of my head I was thinking, well, we did. We did spook some deer. We did have to walk all over the food plot looking for the bolt and everything and for blood. Um. We certainly made an impact. My hope was just that there was enough other targets in the area and you weren't quite as picky that night that we could get away with it. Um. But in short, it was a rough night. We only saw three deer total, um one day and two year and a half old bucks and um very slow and definitely had that feeling like, oh no, um, look how different it was from night number one to number night number two. Dramatic difference. And uh, the weather was changing, getting hotter and hotter and hotter. Weather was looking bad. The deer settings were looking bad. And by the end of night number two, which is technically night number three of the trip because we also hunted one day up at ken Raven Um, so we're now fifty done with our trip down to the last three days, and um, now I'm starting to think, oh boy, are we in trouble here a little bit? Um? What do you think in justin or dead? Any thoughts after night number two different than that? Well, I wasn't going to be picked about the deer. I think I mentioned that to you too, So I was gonna if there was a legal um three on a side, I was going to take it that night number two, No number two. You said you're holding for two year old. Yeah, I'm talking about number three. So by the time we went to night number three, I wasn't gonna be picky. Okay, so you're fast forward a little bit, but I was. I wanted to get justice thoughts or your thoughts still just night number two, any thoughts after that, justin anything or your where was your head? I had? I still had high hopes. I know, I knew that we had buggered things a bit on night one. Uh, I was like you though, I know, we were like fifty fifty on what we should do. We had a fresh blind that seems like it would produce, but um, you know, I think we calculated that that that was the best setting night number two and uh, I mean I was glad to see dear and we saw you know, that first dough popped out pretty early, and so I was like, oh, man, like this really could this really could go well still? And uh yeah, as as it got darker, more and more air, we're out of my balloon. As I'm sure it did both you guys too. But man, I like, just knowing the property now and seeing the activity, I still had I still had high hopes that like we could pull it off. And obviously establishing that Dave's standards aren't uh that it's a moving target. Like I knew that we would come across something that it would make him happy. Yes, Um, I think that I think that I still felt my mind told me what you're telling me, justin that we would have an opportunity, and that things that happened. But a little bit of my gut, a little bit my soul was starting to see little reminders of last year, and I was like that. I was like, oh, please, don't let night number one just being anomaly. Don't let it have been this like crazy, amazing fluke of a night. And then very quickly or the other thing I thought, Especially by part way through hunt number three, I'm thinking, my gosh, these are the most on edge deer I've ever seen. I mean, Michigan deer in general are very very affected by hunting pressure, and they're very, very edgy, and there I feel like you can't make many mistakes at all with them. But from night number one to nine number two and part of three, I was thinking, my goodness, this thing went from full of deer to empty in twenty four hours. These guys are just on eggshells. If that's the case. Um, So I had this little whisper of negativity in the back of my mind that was like back all over again. And yeah, well, and and like you said before, Mark, I mean, it kept getting warmer, right, So each day we were five degrees warmer than the previous day and uh, yeah, I mean that's true. Yeah, which brings us all to the last to nine number three. Um, we decide to go back to the area that you and I had hunted last year, So this is field number four. But now instead of being a ground blind down at the bottom of the hill on the edge of the timber looking out, now we're on a hill looking back towards the timber up high, and we have the betting areas in front of us, and to the side of us. We have tall sorghum on three sides, and we have this beautiful lush green food plot that runs along our west and south. Uh right, yeah, west and south and uh again, great view from up there, right, and uh certainly seemed like there should be deer coming out of this neighboring timber, which historically had Um. So I think we had decent hopes. And you had said that night, right, you were readjusting your expectations again, right. I think I think what you said was a nice year in Affle. They'll take him now, right, right, exactly, you know. Mark. The other thing I would say is I think that was the best example of kind of bringing together all the different habitat improvements and and things that you had done are really set up that that space kind of came all together at that location. From what I could see, you know, I had four plantings of sorghum almost on each side of us. That provided that that that that barrier and that protection. The food plot was beautiful, I mean, that came in so well. It was just lush and um. And then as you said, you know, we're looking back towards the woods where the blind was that we sat in last year, and that also was really thick and looked like an ideal place for gear to come out of their beds and into the field and an ultimately into the food plot, and looked a perfect setup. And we had a strong wind coming from the west, but we had the strong wind, I think even on the first night we had a pretty strong wind. Um. But it was again perfect direction. Um. It seemed like a beautiful setup, and and it kind of the culmination of all the work that you guys have done in the and the on the property from what I could tell, looked like it all came together at that location. And so you know, maybe I'm the eternal optimist, but I was really excited about Wednesday night too, um with a little you know, a little bit of humility coming out of Tuesday night, you know, unlike um. You know, I guess I could have really been discouraged about Tuesday night and only seeing three deer. But one thing that I was really encouraged about coming out of that, the silver lining was we didn't blow out one of these other really good locations other one of the you know, the other two elevated blinds. And you had told me that, you know, next we probably go after the location that we had seen the deer last year at. So I was pretty excited about that. And then the first hour passed and we saw zero deer. Yeah. And then the second hour and we saw zero deer. In the third hour past and we saw zero deer. And uh. And this is when my my whisper really became a loud whisper. This became like a Dave Kenny in the blind whisper that's more of like, hey, what about that one thing we did or yeah, this is the um but all the things you shouldn't do in the blind. It's so funny being an adult and sitting with your dad again after you used to sit with him when you were a little kid, and like all those things come rushing back to you when you're an adult and you're sitting in the blind. Why did I ever listen to him? I'm gonna put together a collage after this projects done, of all your facial expressions of very noise that your dad made in the blind. You have no idea how hard justin. I was trying to be nice during those moments, so bad that it started to wear off on me, and I would have the same expression that you would. You were so appalled at everything. The good news is I was oblivious to it all. That was the perk with growing up with dad. You never you never knew the bad looks I was giving him. Oh God. The problem here is that I am so and we we wouldn't joke that night because we're sitting there and I'm so focused. I'm glassing NonStop. I'm really trying to see a deer. I'm thinking in my head. Dad keeps lifting his binoculars up and down all the time, and the sun shining, and if a deer side, he's going to see us right away. And I want this hunt to come together so badly, and so I'm like, I have to be watching the woods. I need to see these deer when they're fifteen yards in the wood still and tell everyone to stop moving because if those if these deer pop out there and spot us. So I'm thinking that glassing the whole town doing that YouTube, are laughing and telling recipe stories and talking about different different food you want to make. I'm finally like, what are you guys doing over here? You're like a couple of housewives exchanging the latest fish fry. Were we were making the best out of a dud hunting situation. You're walking away with something, you know. Finally we get to the point where Mark's about ready to do clothes right, Yeah, and and yes, And I want to finish my thought thro though, which is that I get too intent sometimes and I need to relax a little bit. And Dad, you do a great job of the opposite that stay nice and relaxed and happy and so at times. At times it wears on me, but I'm very glad that you do it, and I'm glad that you are your own person out there and having a good time. And I'm glad that Justin got to document that interesting father son dynamic. I almost brought a bought a pressure cooker today. Dude, I don't want to buy Mark for Christmas set of earplugs. Better at it. Hey. Now, we eventually got you two uh children focused and dialed in on what we're trying to do. And it does get to an hour until dark and we still haven't seen a deer, and we do a little, uh, a little dialogue session where we're on time at our left and this has gonna be what it's gonna happen, and still no dear. And then it gets to thirty minutes of daylight left and still no dear. And I remember staying at that point, I was feeling pretty down in my head, um, thinking man, zero dear tonight, um, and there was gonna degrees the next day or something, and I was feeling pretty bummed. But then I was kept on reminding myself and then I said it out loud to you. Did I don't know if you remember, but I said, I've had so many hunts like this where it looks horrible and it's seeming like it's going to be a complete Remember that, Mark, I remember that, and it can all change. It all changes in a second, just in a flip of a switch. It happens, and it might have been thirty seconds. Yeah, I mean I don't know how long was after saying that, but very soon after saying that, Um, what happened. So you said that, Dad, there's a bucket coming out of the woods, and that deer came out. And again I didn't see it, so you have to fill in that gap markers. I didn't see it come out of the woods. I didn't see it come across the field. Well, I didn't see it till it came into the food pot. So justin, yeah, I'd like to mention I stopped talking about recipes long enough to point out that there was a hitting a scrape on the edge of the woodline. Yes, oh, you saw first up. Yeah. I thought it was smart. Oh no, I forgot that. Justin. Justin got two gold stars for doing this. He got the spot there. Uh, and so he spotted it. I pull up and see him right away there and it was his antlers are up in the tree working a scrape. And right away I said, nice year and a half a seven pointer, that is what I thought. And um, and basically seeing him and thinking myself, man, that's that's that's a dear you shoot basically, that's that's a shooter dead. Um. And so the deer then starts walking our way. I mean, he came out of the timber in front of us and just a little bit to the west, and then he you know, you tell exactly where he was when he was coming right to that food plot, straight up wind of us, right to where you're beautiful clear shot into the food plot would be. And I'm just thinking, oh my gosh, this is exactly like we wanted to write it up. And actually I think I told you. I told you this, but I told you just before the hunt and after the hunt. But when I was setting up this blind with Tony in the summer, I even said, I bet you this is gonna be where my dad kills one. We're gonna go right back to the same place we went last year. He's gonna come out of this timber, he's gonna walk across up towards his food plot, and he's going to get a shot. And I kind of acted it all out, um, And it didn't come exactly the route I thought he would take. But he comes walking in and I just remember thinking, we can't screw this up. So the deer's walking and I'm like, I'm whispering, tell you gotta get turned dead, shoot out the window and trying to ask, just like, are you on him? Can you see him? And the deer stops at like fifty yards and kind of stares in our direction. And this was that moment where it's like, Okay, is this happening or not? That was the moment of truth. And I was just heart running a million miles a minute. And then he put his head down and kept walking and the brush and grass is so tall all you can see was the tips of his antlers almost over most of that stuff. Um, but he's coming right in and basically from there it was from there it was all on you. Um. So, now walk me through what you were thinking when when you heard there was a buck and I said, that's a it's a nice year and a half old seven pointer. Now walking me through your mind, is this is all happening? So you know it's funny. I I unlike Monday night, I was very calm that night on Wednesday night, so I didn't I know buck favor. What adrenaline I had was apparently not so much that you know the big thing that happened, though, Mark, because you said that's coming in the food pot. You now, by this time, we're probably ten minutes from from last life, right, I mean, it's getting dark. We're still ten minutes from shooting light. But I'm looking out in the food pot. I can't see it. It's and it's mostly I think, because it's so it's you know that everything's looking kind of the same color of of gray and um, and I'm thinking to myself, oh crap, you know here that this nice dare finally come out. It's coming to the food pot. It's right in front of me. You arranged it, I think at three or four yards, um, and I can't see it. And so I brought up my crossbow, uh, scoped in the general area where I thought the deer was, and thank god, I can see the deer through the skull and uh, um, you know, I and I did the obligatory market I think to take a shot. Justin got out of and I, uh, you know, brought the crossbow up and used a couple of the techniques that that I had kind of uh learned and perfected a little bit on Tuesday and the shooting that we did, and it just went one to three. I mean, I didn't have any any of them Buck Favor that I had on Monday night, just put right behind his shoulder and pulled the trigger and he immediately I think you immediately, Mark, and I knew that I had him because you could you know, obviously hear the sound and but you knew right away, Mark, right you said, you got a good shot. And he ran eight yards right in the middle of the food pot and dropped and we could see him at the top of the hill. What do you think about that? You know, it's It's the funniest thing. It was just such it was so surreal, I think, I think that, well, I was so excited to see that he came in when he did, but I was so intentional, intentionally focused on making sure I didn't miss this deer that you know, it was surreal to pull the pull the triggers, see the bolt go through him and then have him run up and drop that it was kind of like, oh, I just shot a deer. It wasn't until you know, a few minutes later that it just just hit me hard that that it actually, you know, got it done, and he's there and he's not you know, he's not running into the woods with a bolt, you know, over his back. So yeah, it was great, and we ended up had a bunch of deer pile out in the next five minutes after that. Yeah, that was the other thing. That's funny, just like Monday night, right, So shoot the deer and that seems to be the trigger that brings a bunch of other deer out. I guess we gotta learned that for next time. Yeah. Yeah, so a bunch of deer and even saw the deer you missed on nine number one. He came back. It was twenty yards behind us. Um. But but yeah, it was amazing. I mean, I was so so excited for you and thrill that it all worked out and it was it was super cool. The only thing, the only thing I regret a little bit, not regret, but it just is the nature of the beast of what we were doing is that I felt like you never really got to celebrate it fully because we had to film this thing that we had to go and walk over here and film this thing that we had to go walk over there, and there was just so much work around it to film this show that I don't think you ever I mean I know you eventually did, but there was a lot of rigamar role that had to be layered into it for you to just get to enjoy your moment. So from I don't know, do you did you get to enjoy the moments? Did you get to soak it in enough? Oh? Yeah, you know, I think when I really did, because again I don't quite know how to describe the emotions that I was feeling at the time because it was in stark contrast to Sunday night or Monday night. Um, it was I was unbelievable, I guess it would be the best way to describe it. It was almost like somebody needed to pinch me and say, you really did shoot the deer. Um. It wasn't until Justin did his you know, uh uh portrait pictures with me and the deer that I really kind of sank in. And then when you and I got it, uh, you know, it was a surreal experience. And seeing how the sausages made Is us really that thing that the filming of the show. Yeah, yeah, the whole filming of the show and all the process you guys go through, and you know that the retakes and you know, all the other things Um, it was. It was really quite the experience and I just yeah, I mean I that was kind of this in interesting again. I think it kind of had the long the long boil with the celebration of shooting the deer. Um, you know, when I talked to mom on the way home, that was part of it. Talking to my friends on on Thursday about it, going back out there on Thursday and maybe to some extent, just seeing where we shot the deer, seeing the blind walking through it all again, was it really got me pumped again and and really excited about what happened. So yeah, it was. It was phenomenal. The whole thing was just great. Any thoughts for you just know how that all went down. Yeah, Dave went from being like giddy on night one to like being stone stone cold, and he shot shot that deer, and I thought you and I were gonna lose it, like we were. We were both shaken, and Dave's just putting his crossbow away like just say the sandwich, like yeah, I I you know, I felt like I mean, we all rode the roller coaster together, you know, like seeing what happened on Monday and having high hopes and obviously like I know you had plans, your plans for your dad. Um, but it was cool to see Um. I mean, I don't think he could have been happier. Man. And like he said, like it as much as a process it is to film this stuff and whatnot, it in a way he did get to relive it so many times. I mean it does get to be stretched out. I mean, you know, the next day at your house and and and uh, you know it it's kind of you know when I shoot a deer, it's like I go, I get you know, thirty minutes and then go drop it off process or whatever and like it. So it did have a cool sense, I mean for the story and the way it went down, and and hearing the history that you guys have at Ken Rovan and Man, it was just like the perfect culmination to to those two that week. Yeah, it was. It was awesome. It was It was really cool to see how much just to see you having a good time out their dad, to be all the after everything that you've you know, to to be a son for a moment here, for after everything that you've done for me and all the things you introduced me to and and and and how you raised me to be the person I am now and to give me these opportunities that I have now and to hunt and to do the things I love. Um, But knowing that you know you hadn't been able to have some of these experiences that I now get to have a lot, I just so badly wanted you to get that reward that I knew you deserved, and to see you get your first deer with a bow and your biggest buck yet, and and to have these kinds of fun sightings and see a bunch of deer and see a bunch of bucks and sea bucks fighting, and see your biggest buck and all that stuff. It was it was like a dream come true for me too. So UM, I just no one deserves it more. And I was just really really happy for you. And um, you have all my life inspired me with how you push through tough things and and achieve incredible things despite whatever obstacle might be in the in front of you. This is just another perfect example of that, UM, where a credit thing happened and you dealt with it, and you pushed through it and you kept a good attitude and a smile on your face. And here we are a couple of day years later and you're cool as a cucumber. You learned, you adapted, you push through, and you uh, you did a great thing. So it was just a terrific moment. As a son, it was a terrific learning experience. Um, you continue to inspire me and many others, I think too. And uh put a hell of a shot in that buck too. So it was just really cool all the way around. And I don't know, Dad, I think it used to Let you wrap it up here if you have any final thoughts on the experience or any final takeaways from what you learned or I don't know anything this whole journey you've been on as a as a bow hunter, in the ups and downs and where all this has taken you, um, or any thoughts for other people that have struggled as new hunters or hunters who have dealt with anything. Um, I don't know. What's What are your parting words for folks listening to this story? Well, you know, I guess what I would say. Work. First of all, thank you, and it was an amazing trip and I really just just incredible. It was the best hunting experience of my entire life. And thank you justin for being a part of that as well, and just being a really good uh comrade in arms. And you know all the times you're probably back there giggling at the old man with the cross ball. But you know, I think Mark, for me personally, this has had such a big personal impact in that UM. And I've always loved to deer hunt, but for all the things we talked about before, I've never been very good at it. I've always had a sense of, you know, I'm kind of I'm just going through the motions, right, I'm not going to see a deer even if it walks right out in front of me. Um. You know, over the last four or five six years, UM, that's changed a bit, um to a great extent because of you and UM and that really is neat. Thank you. You You've you've real ignited, um my passion for bow hunting in particular, but just hunting in general at a level that it hasn't been in a long time. And that's really neat. It's exciting. I mean, I bow hunted and I've been out in the woods every year for I don't know, forty five years whatever, but uh, but i haven't had so much fun. And I'm not nearly. Have never been as excited as I am about the sport right now. That's awesome. Well, I see more exciting hunts like this in your future, Dad. I know we were already spit Ball must some new ideas for next year. So hopefully we can keep keep them coming, and we'll have more podcasts like this next year and the year after that, and before we know it, you're gonna be yelling at me for making too much noise in the blind that will be Remember, remember there's only one prophecy that always comes true, Mark and ask me your children treat you the same way. Everett will be out in the woods one of these days and he'll be saying, Dad, don't make me too much noise. Dad, let me go first. Dad, Can I have your ball? I need to shoot that dear. Yeah, I don't think you're too far off. He was already sneaking around today with his little pretend deer hunting rifle and I was trying to work, and he was trying to hunt, and he was sneaking up when he was grunting at a buck and I was, I think, talking to his mom, and he turned at me and he literally goes there's a deer buck, so he's he's well on his way. That he's well on his and uh, I guess with that, guys, thank you both for not only being a part of awesome hunt, but for now sticking around here tonight talking all about it and reliving it. It was an awesome experience, an awesome hunt. I can't wait for all of you listening to get to see it. Uh. The episode is going to be on season two of the Back forty, which should be airing this November. UM, so take a look over on the meat Either YouTube channel keeping that out here in the coming weeks. We'll have the first episode coming out very soon, and you can also watch season one. They're in the Mediator YouTube channel right now, which has that first hunt with my dad and I and the hunt when I killed the Wide eight and that background I talked about in the beginning. You can watch them that too. So with that, I guess we'll wrap it up. Thank you all for listening, Thanks for being a part of this community, for tuning in. Best of luck on your hunts. Get your family members out there, whether it's your son or daughter, wife, father, mother, whatever it is. Uh. These kinds of things that my dad and I got to share our um. You know, you just you can't put a price tag on it. It's it's special stuff. Go out there and create those memories of your own, and until next time, stay wired to Hunts.