00:00:02 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, your home for deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm your host, Mark Kenyan, and this episode number two ordered in nine one. Joining me today is accomplished public land deer hunter Joe Elsinger to break down how he patterns locations instead of bucks and the tools he uses to analyze deer movements and correlation with weather related factors. All right, welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, brought to you by on X and today, as I just mentioned, we've got Joe Elsinger, also commonly known as the Professor, and we call him that because he is a thinker. He is uh, he's an analyzer. He's he's a detail oriented problem solver I think would be a good way to put it when it comes to chasing mature bucks. And he's doing this on public land in the Big Woods of Wisconsin and up in Iowa. He's been the show a couple of times before. He's proven to be a fan favorite guest, just a really good educator. I think something about the way he communicates makes it easily take in, but a powerful stuff. So episode number one fifty in particular, is a must listen if you have an artist. Checked that one out, as it covers Joe's kind of total all around hunting strategy. But today we're focusing on one particular topic, which is patterning deer, or or I guess at least at least that's what I thought we were going to talk about when I started this conversation with it, because I thought, Okay, let's dive deep into patterning deer. But what I quickly discovered was that's that's not really what Joe is focusing on. Rather, he's all about patterning specific locations, and then he's using a really detailed kind of process of collecting and analyzing data to help him do that help him understand when to hunt certain spots throughout the year and in different prime places to be all throughout the year. So it's not just about when to kill this bucket, when's the best day to go in after him, it's what's the best place to be no matter what time of year it is. And man, it's just a really interesting way of thinking about this um and it's different than what most other people talk about, and really the way I talk about this stuff too, So this is kind of a new idea for me that I'm definitely gonna be taken to heart this year. So that's what we'renna be talking about. We're also going to be discussing the tools he's created to analyze all sorts of data like this. He's got a really interesting set of analyzes he runs on trail camera data. So we're gonna talk about that. We're gonna talk about the lessons he's learned and the trends he's uncovered when he's studying all these different types of deer settings and photos and then comparing them to changes and things like temperature and pressure and the moon and much more. So, Man, I'll tell you what. If you enjoy geeking out over deer, today's episode is for you. That's said. Before we get to it, we are going to take a really quick break and then we will get to our chat with Joe. Alright, So with me now back on the show for I think the third time, maybe, is Joe Elsinger really to call you the professor? Joe, thanks for thanks for coming back. Thank you. It's happy to be here. Since since the professor name was applied to you on the podcast A couple of years ago. Do you have anyone yet that makes jokes about like tweet vests and pipes and glasses everything. I think I've gotten a couple of those comments. Yeah, and that's definitely not me. Anyone who's hung out with me, that's definitely not me. So yeah, maybe another twenty years. That's good, Glenn, it's given you a hard time. Thank you Andy May for that one. I think. Yeah. Yeah, Well, I'm glad you are back with us because because each time I've gotten a chat with you, it's just been super interesting for me, and we've we've always gotten great feedback. People have found your insights really helpful. And today I'm sure we're gonna we're gonna get the same kind of thing. But I'm excited and I kind of want to just jump right into it. Joe Hope, you don't mind me avoiding four play and just going right to the main event, because we got a cool topic today of patterning deer and correlating deer activity to other outside factors. And this idea came about because I don't know, a month or two ago, me and Dan we're doing a podcast just the two of us, and we were talking about um, how I how both of us really are looking at annual patterns and looking through trial camera data and stuff. And I happened to bring up the fact that I, excuse me, I had made kind of uh, pretty rudimentary spreadsheet in which I was tracking all the daylight pictures and daylight observations I had of a certain buck and then a certain number of other variables weather related things. UM. So I was talking about that to damn, and then a bunch of people asked me to share that spreadsheet. So I shared a picture of it on Instagram, and I think maybe that's what you saw, because then you reached out to me and said, hey, um, you know I do the same thing. You might remember we talked about it a little bit a couple of years ago, but you you, you shared with me this document and you just take things to a whole new level as far as tracking deer movement and all the different, um correlating variables, and just the document itself kind of blew my mind. The level of analysis you put in here trying to understand what different things impact dear movement, how you're tracking these things. Um, the level of detail on analysis is just it's it's fascinating and I think it would really help people. There's a lot of folks know, uh, to pay attention like, oh yeah, I think you know, cold friends will make dear move more, or I think such and such thing, and there's lots of different theories. Um. Not a lot of people I know actually go about tracking it in a way that can be quantified. Um. But I guess if you go by the by the what's the word um not nickname is a fancier word for nickname blanket on right now. But if people call you the professor, you should probably quantify your work and you do that. Yeah, I'm an engineer by trade, so that's my disclaimers. I'm a numbers guy. I'm a nerd. I'm happy to admit that I'm a nerd. So it's definitely not for everybody, but yeah, thanks, um, yeah you are a spot on and how that? How that? Um? Why I passed it on to you. So, as I mentioned to you before we started recording, I was a little I'm a little behind on your podcast, which I love. Um, I've you know, listen to every single one, but I'm a couple of months behind here. A few weeks ago I finally got to that podcast where you were talking about track that spreadsheet with or You're you know how you've been tracking observations with Dan, and yeah, that's exactly what I was like, you know what, I think I need to send that to Mark. So I'm glad. Yeah, it's it's spurred this bigger conversation. So so what I want to do here, Joe is is talk in detail about kind of you know, we we spoke briefly about patterning deer a couple of years ago, but now I want to go really deep into everything you're thinking about when it comes to understanding dear movement, maybe understanding specific deer and all of these things you're tracking and monitoring and trying to make decisions based off of. So to kick it off, I think I first want to lay some groundwork, lay some gets, some definitions, some some foundations out here. So when I say something like pattern a deer, when you think about patterning a deer, what does that mean to you? Yeah, so it's interesting, Um it used to mean, um, probably what the first thing that pops into the head of everybody else You used to look at individual deer And I still do don't get me wrong. But now I have kind of UM that's actually pretty very hard. Everybody knows it's very very hard to pattern individual deer um bucks have individual personalities. Some are easier to pattern. They may have a very small core area, UM it's not necessarily easy to kill. And other ones have huge core areas and they seem to drift around and many many different betting areas across thousands of acres and everything in between. So patterning an individual deer, you know, yeah, I've done it, Um, I've killed a compauty or that I can say I went to a spot to kill them, and I've killed them. But you're going to fail more often than you succeed. UM. So now I really look um at locations and I try to identify, um, the optimal times for locations UM. And so I'm really patterning locations UM. And I found that's actually more outful to me then when I was just going around and trying to figure out, Okay, this deer's here and he's going to be over there tomorrow and then and then you know over there, uh, you know, two days from now, UM, trying to figure that out. Now I look at individual locations and I keep track of the bucks in the area. But I can particularly betting areas because I hunt UM. You know, the refresher from some of the things that I've set a previous podcast. I hunt majority, vast majority of public land UM and uh, you know, even the private land hunts generally shared with UM, and I don't. I used toime more private land. I'm very little, but I you know, no exclusive access property. So all the deer are getting pressured UM. So it's really you have to dial into the betting UM to have success, especially with the chair bus UM. And that's what I do. So I'm trying to figure out when certain betting areas are used UM. And I've learned a lot about that over the last few years UM primary by using observations while unning, but primarily UM setting trail cameras in bedding or in travel routes right next to betting UM off fall. I used to think having a trail camera for four weeks straight and not touching it UM was a long time. Now I think that's actually short. That kind of shows how I've evolved in my thought process. And now I'll put them out in July, August, September. I've got a few cameras out already to get need to get a few more out in the next month or two, and they're going to stay there until the winter. Some of them I won't pick up till next spring. And I get these long, big chunks of data UM, and so I can sift through it and I look at wind, temperature, barometric pressure, UM and all these all these factors, UM. And I've learned that betting areas, there's really strong correlations between some of these things and when certain betting areas are being used and and there'll being is by certain books. Certainly because I'm targeting buck betting. I'm sure buck betting UM that that really has helped my efficiency UM in targeting these these spots. So you know, I may have three or four months worth at the dead off of one camera, and uh, you know there's strong correlations. And hey, this betting area is used with you know, strong west winds, not light winds, you know, UM, you know, colder than average temperatures UM, things like that at certain times of the year. You know, maybe it's mostly during the rut, or maybe it's mostly in the early season. UM. I found betting that's primarily used in hot weather primarily used in you know, cool weather, UM, windy weather, calm weather, stable weather, um, bad unpleasant rainy weather. UM. It's just really kind of eye opening to me. And then you're able to just be that much more efficient with your hunts then at any given time of the year, you know, the highest optimal, the optimal I'm to be in any given area. Yeah, that's the goal. And it you know, it's it's never don't get me wrong. I'm still far from perfection, like, but I've come a long ways. Um. Now I think you know, give me six eight clean hunts at times that I can pick and you know I can get an opportunity here too in just that many hunts on public land. Granted this is Iowa. We have a very good population with share box, but still you know it's public land. UM. And I would point out, Um, I've done us. I'm doing more and more of this research and up in uh northern Wisconsin too, um, in public land up there, so it's a completely different environment. But UM, it helps me kind of um confirm a lot of these things that it's not just an Iowa thing. You know that I'm able to do this. I'm binding very strong trends in Wisconsin as well in big woods habitat swamps and Tamarack swamps and you know, uh around clear cuts and oak blatts and that kind of thing. So um, yeah, it's it's very interesting to me anyway. I'm you know, I love um that side of things. It's not for everybody. I know. I've talked to people about it, and some you know, it sucks all fun out of it. This is intended to take the fun out of it. If it's not fun to think about this, then okay, just go hunting. But if you do like to really try to stack the deck in your favor and play the odds, you know, that's what I That's what I love. It's it's funny. Speaking of Iowa, I gotta call out. I gotta call out Dan, who's not with us here today, but he's not here to defend himself, so so sorry. In advanced Dan, I'm going to call you out. But last last time or two times ago that you were on the show, Joe, Um, you were talking about this idea of how you run your cameras, and then at the end of the episode you gave both Dan and I a piece of advice and your piece of advice for Dan was don't check your cameras so often you go and so often check them, check them, check them. And he said, oh, he's okay, I'll take your advice. And then I can confirm that he has not been taking your advice. He keeps talking about going there checking him. I've been listed. So yeah, if I remember right, last year he left one camera out like all fall. He forgot to check it or maybe you forgot where it was or something. Yeah, I don't know. And then he was super excited about that, you know, like what he learned off that, And I was like, oh my god, yeah, he realizes it now, I don't know. Yeah, it's so. And that's the thing, like, yes, there are some most of most of you know, I'm not targeting food sources. I'm targeting betting. You can hang cameras on the edge of the food sources and it's a lot lower impact to check them in In many circumstances, I'm still lary of regular checking anything near where I'm hunting. But um, and now, of course you have wireless cameras, and that's a whole another um. You know, it gives a whole another um. People that want to use them. You know, that really pens up a lot of options for monitoring. But still, if you're intruding on betting, mature bucks will notice it, they will move accordingly. They may still be in the area, they might only move across the ridge, but they will know you're there, and they will, you know, make sure that they're not you know, they don't have much risk from you. So um, it's uh. You know, you can hang cameras and check them frequently in near food sources. Sometimes that's certainly true. But where I'm putting them, I couldn't go in and check. I would blow every you know, I'd blow deer out of Sometimes they're where I want to hunt, and I go in there and do a hunt and that's it. But I've seen when in circumstances like that, Um, I've seen the impact where like you know, I'll get say three or four mature buck sightings in daylight over the course of a week, and then I'll have been in there, or more often, because it's a public land, I'll see a hunter on camera, you know, whether it's a squirrel hunter or another bow hunter or whatever coming through, and um, it'll be several days they'll be just very minimal activity and then I'll pick up again. So, um, I see that all the time, even during the rut. I mean a lot of people who bucks are everywhere in the rut. Yeah, they definitely move a lot more, but they're still very intentional about where they move. Um and um that you can disturb an area and there'll be a decrease in what you'll see in front of there in these these high impact areas. You know, it's one thing if you're just walking along the field edge, but it's another thing if you're walking in a bedding area wanted yards from a field, or like a northern Wisconsin it's a it's it's huge up there. I'll I'll hunting swamp island where I'll have a camera and then like for a week, I won't get a deer, you know. So um, it's it's interesting. So so in this kind of situation, if you're trying to pattern a location, before we get into all the variables you're looking at and all the data and stuff, let's first just cover let's check the box on how you get the data, which is pictures. Right. Can you just walk me through a little bit more detail of when you're trying to patter on a location, UM, you know what you're thinking about as far as where you're gonna put a camera. How many cameras do you put out? Do you have like any kind of system in place, like if you wanted to learn this betting area, do you put several cameras around it? Or what's your thought process once you're you're starting. So, I mean, now I have a lot of cameras. I by my standards, I used to think ten cameras is a lot. Now I probably have like fifteen. And you know, I just bought a couple of years and for a number of years now and now I've built up a larger quantity, but still it's not many. And um, I know some people just carpet an area with cameras. Um I've never done that. Um, partly because I don't have that many cameras. I don't have. Occasional I'll drop in a couple of post pretty close together if I really can't figure out an area. But you do have to have a baseline knowledge of how mature bucks move across um the land. And I know I've talked about this before, Like you've got to achieve that cameras don't even necessarily tell you all that. You've got to kind of learned that the hard way by a lot of hunting and a lot of time invested in observing them. UM. And then you you know, I can go in and I can pick out you know, if I think bucks betting in an area, I can pick out two or three most likely travel routes in and out of that um, you know, and then sometimes it's one or two that seemed to be clearly favored. UM. And it's really interesting. I've gotten to the point of UM and anybody else can to UM. You can predict like, oh, they'll come in this way, you know, to bed in the morning, and they'll leave that way in the evening. Um. You know, in the morning jay hook they usually do jay hook um, and in the evening they usually get up and just leave straight going to oot or does whoever their destination is. So UM, it's often two different directions. They don't come and go. And I see that on camera too. UM when I'm setting a camera, like on an access route into bedding, I know. Okay, well, I don't always know ahead of time. Sometimes they surprise me, but usually I get mostly morning activity or even activity, even though the dearer there all day, they don't come and go on that camera. You know. There it's the heavily favor either morning or evening. And if my cameras in the bedding, I'll get a lot of midday movement. Um. Bucks are up and moving mid day more than you'd believe. They don't move very far usually, especially on public land and stuff, but they do get up. They have to get up biologically, Um, they have to stand up. They cannot lay on the ground for twelve hours straight, from what I understand, or they'll die. So they have to get up, brows, relieve themselves and be back down. UM. So I'll get them doing that all the time. If my camera is literally right, you know, say watch a cluster of beds or right between a couple of beds. So another reason deer get up and move. And this is another big indicator of peed in on its temperature. UM. As a temperature changes over the course of the day, deer will move. Say it's hot weather, they will move to the coolest spot. It's kind of temperature based bedding. And that's um. There's actually some really strong trends there. Um. You know they will seek cool when it's hot, and they will seek warmer areas when it's cold, and you know, getting out of the elements, they'll seek the thermal cover. Um, and that will change over the day. You know, they may be I've I've pot cameras over over individual beds, and I'll get deer consistently, Like they'll bed there up until ten am, and then they'll get up and leave because it gets too sunlit and warm in the say the summer months, and they'll they'll be moving to a more shaded, cooler area. So UM, yeah, that's that's Uh. In all those little you know, there's no one thing that oh you know you can use this and all of a sudden you get killed big bucks. There's all these little layers you can put together, and um, it's fascinating. I don't I'm not even I'm definitely not an expert um on it, but I've started to kind of grasp the overall um picture. They still surprise me. Um surprised me a lot. But yeah, that's so I'm taking what I'm doing here. Um. You know, I'll leave a camera. Say last year, I had roughly a dozen cameras sprinkled across three or four counties in Iowa. And you know ten thousand acres of public land up in Wisconsin. UM. Yeah, it's not each less cameras up in Wisconsin. But um and pull them, pull the cards and literally UM. So I this me, being a nerd over the years, I used to in a spreadsheet format, enter the date, enter the time, Enter my estimate at each class of the book. UM. To me, that's very important because different age class of bucks act differently. Um. In Iowa once they hit four years old, I think they really start to act differently. Up in Wisconsin. I see that change more along the three year old. And I think I think, you know, like Michigan it might be similar. It's where there's more hunting pressure and there you know, it's just less older deer. So there's UM, they get just to a certain age, a certain level of experience, and you know now they're not in junior high anymore, nor a high school. You know now they're collegiate level um in terms of staying alive. Um. And so I just make a list of the deer and it was a two year old, three year old, four year old my estimate? Do I get it right? Every time, definitely not. But most of the time I think I know about what how old a deer is? UM, and then UM I used to manually enter like it was in the morning, it was you know, the temperature at the time they movement. I would look it up and I would enter, you know, fifty five degrees UM. And that got old as I started to get more data. So actually before you before you say that's the dumbass way that I'm still doing it, and I, yeah, have some help, Yeah, yeah, absolutely, UM. And that's UM up until so I started doing this UM hardcore in about two thousand and thirteen, like really like looking at observations and trying to find trends related to weather, UM, time of year, that kind of thing. UM. Here in about twenty fifteen sixteen, I figured out a way to extract weather data from the Noah website. It's a government website, UM, and they have locations all across the US UM, and I just about guarantee hunters are within you know, miles of a Noah weather station that logs this data UM, and you can you can download it in a spreadsheet format. And now it's without getting too complex, just using a simple v look up feature in xl UM. I type in the date and time for the presiding and it tells me temperature, precipitation, current, past and future precipitation, wind speed, wind direction, sea level pressure. Um what else I'm looking at it right now? Um yeah, sunrise, sunset, moon clock position, moon percent illuminated all those fundal details to me anyway, So UM yeah, it took in half an hour here, an hour there over the course a number e years to build that. But now literally all of the time it takes with data entry for entering the time of the date, and um, you know there is some set up you know it's based on um, you know, location specifics. You have to bring in the data for your you know, whatever towns closest to you, usually their airports or or just weather stations in in small towns. And uh now, I um, you know, I have this enormous amount of data Like last year, for example, I have almost five data points from two year old and older bucks in Iowa, and I have almost that number of data points from two year old and older bucks up in Wisconsin. You know, between say August and December of of last falls, so for the whole fall, and I can look at the trends. You know, I look at UM not just locations specific, but I want to look at UM just trends overall over the over the course of the rut. UM like when did a peak? UM, what influences the peaks? And we can really dive into that. UM. I've learned some interesting things. But so so first off, to develop something like this, UM, you go and you download the weather data from the Noah website for a specific location, and it gives you the whole and I'm I'm assuming you pick a date range, so maybe October one through January one or whatever it is. It gives you a spreadsheet with all of the data for every single day. You create a tab in your spreadsheet, paste that into the tab on your spreadsheet, and then you have another tab of that spreadsheet, which is where you're putting all of your observations, so the dates and the times of the observation. And then through some fancy spreadsheet magic, you connect to those two so that spits out the data. It connects between your dately you put in there, and then what the actual weather is. UM. I do not remember how to use Excel that well, so I couldn't do that myself. UM, but I'm sure there's there's tutorials online um or maybe maybe there's even a way to get a template out there for people. I don't know, but yeah, there's all kinds of tutorials you can. UM. I'm kind of hesitant to just blast out my my my spreadsheet to everybody. I've given it to a few people, but UM, you know there's like you so and I. You know, say November one at noon and you had a buck run past your caturil camera, you enter that date and now without instead of having to manually look up, oh, the temperature was fifty eight degrees and all automatically poop it was fifty eight degrees and this was a barometric pressure and was it raining or not? Um, you know, um those kind of things. So um again, the weather Web weather website is the UM it's www dot n C, d C, dot n O A A dot go. And then you go to the local climate climate toological data and it's free. Anybody can do it and you can search by your location and download the weather and it's usually recorded in fifteen minute or our intervals UM for your location, so you know it documents what the weather was and for everyone else's reference. I'm pretty sure UM Underground and all the other websites. I guess WonderGround doesn't even have historical data anymore. I'm not sure. I don't think they do UM, but they all get it from this Noah website. I think everybody does UM. I don't think I like that's to go to place to get UM weather data. So so in your spreadsheets you have a whole bunch of different metrics or variables tracked. Are these hand selected because you think that they have some kind of impact or is this just everything Noah has and you just allow it all to populate. Yeah, it's not everything Noah has. Noah has tracks so much it's it's ridiculous. Um. They have like heating degree days and cooling degree days, which might be you know, might be interested you if you're a hunter and doing a lot of food plots. That's a measure of a lot of UM farmer's day attention to you know, how warm or cool versus average it is. And then I just started hand picking things. UM. So it's things that I think are indicators. Now I've looked into some of them, and some of them don't end up being much of an indicator. Um, but it's uh, it's really interesting. I mean I can run it through. You know, I look at day of the week. I look at a M versus PM versus mid day, and I just defined midday a little arbitrarily is between ten am and two pm. Um. Um, A couple of things. I look at that our location specific I try to I've just started, uh looking at what direction bucks are headed on camera. So sometimes, um, when I'm hanging a camera right in a bedding area and there's a bunch of beds around, it can be confusing to me, like where they're coming from, where they're going to. And I've started to find trends. So I I enter, say a buck's heading from left to right on camera, you know, and I can remember what direction that camera was pointed. So I'll enter left, right, left, right, and it will say, oh, in the morning, bucks are coming from the left, and the evening they're in the afternoon they're coming from the right. And then I can that uh, you know, that tells me a lot more than um, you know, just so oh they're you know, they're betting over there, you know, and then they're switching to betting over here, so UM sky conditions. I look at sky conditions. It's another stat from Noah overcast versus clear or versus parley cloudy UM. And then I really dive into temperature. In my opinion, temperature is the number one external factor you know, outside like the rut um, time of year, like weather factor, it's temperature UM, without a doubt, there's nothing else that comes close actually um so in terms of where a deer is and why he's moving UM A certain to certain places. UM. So I look at temperature like departure from average, meaning I look at the average temperature that time of year, and is it you know, average, or is a ten degrees hotter ten degrees cooler UM. I look at two hour temperature change, which is kind of an arbitrary number, but UM is that you know, the temperature has a big impact on UM. When a buckets up and moves to another bed during the middle of the day, if it's warming up or cooling off. So I've learned that UM. Then I look at precipitation UM. Both when it's like at the time of the photo, but I also want to know like what it's going to do and then what it was doing before for a few hours before and after because um, so so what I found both in Wisconsin and down here, and I've I've heard you talk about it, Mark if for To, others talk about it UM, and it sounds like you know, in Michigan, there's a theory that you know, older box are prefer to move in the rain. What I've found so far is, at least no Wisconsin, they dear don't move so much in the rain. It's distinct drop. However, they do really like to move right before and right after the rain. UM. And I think there are just a lot of time it's adjusting bedding to new locations, UM to UH to seek shelter or leaving and maybe going to feed UM in preparation for the rain or after the rain. So that's what I found. UM. Wind direction, I look at that's very locational thing. So UM it's is. But I've also I've looked at all my observations altogether for an entire fall. It's actually very eye opening just what average wind digressive wind directions are. And this is data goes back over several years, but basically a third of the time the wind is south or southwest, a third of the time the wind is where northwest or north and then the remaining third of the time you're left with west, which actually, isn't that a straight west wind isn't that common for this part of the country or some easterly um So, so it's very split up. You usually get a southerly wind or a northerly wind, you know, and occasionally something else. UM. I look at barometric pressure, barometric pressure or something that I've really dove into. I thought I was going to find actually more than more than I end up finding. UM. So I look at pressure change. UM. But I also look at just like overall pressure. Um. And there's no denying. Do you really like a high barometer? You get above for this part of the country thirty point two five thirty point three, and there's definitely um. Deer on their feet more in daylight. Um And I should have lead with this, but you know, I'm really looking at daylight photos only. I pretty much ignored nighttime photos because well it's just you know, I'm looking at times I can hide and deer, you know, um do move a lot at night. But I really want to know what's making them get on their feet during the day. So UM, if that helps anybody along. I'm really only I'm really only looking at daylight photos from you know, during hunting hours, half an hour before daylight, half an hour after dark. UM. Do you track your observations to like what you see with your own eyes? Yes, yep, yep, I do, UM, And that's actually so that's it's good, UM, But it's kind of tricky and you and I hesitate to let tell anyone to compare it to your trail camera observations because of your UM, the size of your what you're observing, and because with a trail camera you're watching you know, something fifty feet or maybe at most a hundred feet in front of that camera, UM, and you know, a narrow window, whereas if you're sitting on stand, UM, you could maybe record things in bow range, you know, like because that's a fairly small area. But if you're sitting on stand and you know, in one stand you might in dense cover you might only be able to see forty yards or thirty yards, and another stand, if you can see across fields, you might be watching deer four yards away. So that doesn't really tell you know, if they're they're moving over there. That doesn't really tell you anything about your spot, you know. Um, so, um, just what you're what you're looking at has a big impact there. You need to append that observation to where the deer's location was, not to understand location. Yeah, back to press, so pressure they deer like a high barometer. But it's not. It's it's uh, it's not as big of a trend as I thought it might be. I compare it to like average barometric pressure for the year, which um, I know Mark Drury way back and a couple of his podcasts that they had talked about that given into that, and it's true. You know, average barometric pressure might be around thirty inches of mercury in early season, and that goes up to you know, say thirty point one or or or maybe a little more by November. And um, you know, so, so departure from average is important. It's not just um, you know, thirty point three inches of mercury is screaming high in September October, but it's not. It's high, but it's not as high come mid November. Um, when there's an atmosphere cools, pressure on average gets still higher. Um. And then of course I dive into the moon, which is everyone's favorite theory. Um. And that so I look at two different things. I look at both, you know, phase of the moon, so um, you know, new moon, full moon, and then also what I call I probably spent way too much time that this by itself, I probably have spent more time on than any other thing because everybody else has to write, um, moon clock position, so I call it moon clock position, but you know, red moon, whatever you want to call it. If a moon's overhead or underfoot, to me, if it's directly overhead in my mind, that's twelve o'clock. Directly underfoot, that's six o'clock. If it's rising, it's nine o'clock. If it's setting at three o'clock. So that's how I break it down. Yeah. So um, it's just you know, yeah, it's a you know, and it's not the right way. It's just the way I do it, and I can visualize in my head. Um, anyway, what have I found. I have found absolutely no correlation with moonblock position and deer movement. So um, and that's out of and and I will say I used to be one that I did think there was a slight correlation. I just that was my qualitative observations from sitting on stand man, I thought I saw a lot of deer when you know the moon was overhead and underfoot or rising and setting. But if it's there, it's such a slight trend, and it's so overshadowed by whether whether whether whether weather information or whether you know whatever the weather is at the moment um. Um, I've about written it off. Um moon face. I looked at that, like do they prefer a full moon or new moon? And once again I have not found hardly anything. I've found only one thing that seems to be in associated with like moon face, and that is for whatever reasons um so so. I also I don't just track each observation, but then I graph him on a plot him on a big graph um over the course of the fall, so October, November, December, um, and to see when peak activity is. Uh so you know, I'm I'm getting a whole bunch of deer early November. Obviously that's peak movement. That's the rout um that shouldn't surprise anybody. But um, cold fronts, there's usually a spike in activity. There's no cold fronts always, as everybody knows, has a big impact on deer, and the bigger the cold front, the better. And I'll dive into that later. I'll finish talking about the moon. Um, the moon. Um. Around that full moon, the running moon, quote unquote, I am seeing a spike in activity. It's not huge, but it seems to every single time there's a full moon anywhere from you know, mid to late October to mid November. Whenever that full moon falls, I'm seeing over you know, in a three to five day window around that full moon, mature bucks seem to be a little more on their feet more during daylight. Why. I have absolutely no idea. I know there's been you know, telemetry studies that have not found anything. Um. However, I will say, um, I think those telemetry studies are pretty limited because of how they measure data. A lot of them I've noticed measure like miles per day. Well, that's not nearly precise enough. You need to dial into either like during daylight and for weather events you need to dial into one hour or two hour increments. Did you have any uh, you know, uh clarity on like what a weather event has on an animal a twenty four hour you know, put it this way, I'm not surprised they're not finding any correlation because if you're measuring distance over twenty four hour period, they're getting up, they're going to eat, they're coming back, you know, and they're doing that every single day, whatever the weather is. But exactly when they're doing it, well, that hasn't that is impacted by you know, environmental factors. That it's literally that little change is what really matters to those hunters. So if if a buck moved half an hour early, that might not show up on their on their big studies, but that sure as heck makes a huge difference for us as the hunter. That's exactly I'm hoping these telemetry studies get better, and I know there are a lot of them are limited I believe by battery life and those collars. They can't be you know, strapping nine bowl batteries onto those deer. So you know, the more the more data points, more pings. You know, if they're doing it every fifteen minutes or every hour or three times a day, that has a big impact on how often they do it. So I understand it's not it's not everybody's fault, but I'm hoping people start to measure these researchers start to measure UM in much more frequent intervals, and the sky's a limit on what we'll learn about here. So so with all this stuff, all this stuff that you're looking at, I mean, you listed fifteen different variables or more that you're looking at. You kind of mentioned a few that seem to have a big impact, some others don't. When you're actually heading out to hunt, or you're sitting at home before your weekend hunts or whatever, and you're thinking through, what's your game plan is going to be? Which one of these actually factor into your decisions? Like is there a top five lists or anything like that that are the real heavy heaters that you really focus your time and energy around. Yeah, so, uh, number one's temperature. Um, I've really learned to that. You know, deer favor cool areas when it's warm out and warm areas when it's cold out. Um. They still security's top priorities. So you know, they're only in certain areas that they feel safe, but within those UM, Like I have a theory, UM, I'm not sure that deer move less when it's hot out. I think they just move in different spots, and most tunners aren't watching those spots. So that's part of the reason why everybody, oh, it's a cold front deer moving like crazy. I actually think nobody bothers to watch the warm weather spots um. And a couple of reasons. They're one, they're they're not necessarily where deer spend a lot of the time in the fall. You know, in the fall it's usually cooler. The cold days out number the warm days on average. UM. And also the cool spots are usually heavier cover, lower down by water. UM. And people you know, you can't see cold front deer out in a field feeding and you can see him from half a mile away. Um. When it's hot weather, they're seeking shade, they're seeking uh, you know, cool north slopes in hill country, which is a lot of what I hunt. And you can't see very far in a lot of these areas. So people think, oh, they're not moving. Well, I've I've got deer up and walking around and it's eighty five degrees you know, with humidity. I'm getting them on camera. They're you know, they're probably not running around and running heavily, but um, they do move UM, but it's usually like UM. So that really has improved my less than if I'm hunting and it's less than optimal weather, you know, warm weather or whatever. UM. And I used to think. I still don't like sitting on standard sweating. I'll still call it less than optimal. I just don't like doing it, but UM, I will do it. And I've killed a couple of bucks now here with you know, warmer than average temperatures in spots you're looking, you know, shade, cool, north slopes, water, um, often combinations of all those UM and Uh, I'm getting into the deer. That's where they are, and they're getting out, and they're moving in daylight. They're not maybe moving very far, and they're you know, they're not walking out into fields if it's bright sunshine, especially you know, if they've grown their winter coat. UM. Eighty degrees in September is a lot different than eighty degrees in November. After a deer it's grown it's winter coat. So as you know, it has a huge impact by time of year or two. So temperature, UM. You know, if it's really cold out, I like the extreams because that really concentrates the deer. UM. You know, I can't say I like counting and super hot weather but if it's super hot, the deer really stack up well, UM in some of these spots, if it's super cold out there flipping, you know, they're getting out of the wind, so they're getting on the lee of the leeward slopes. They're getting down further on the leewards the slopes, UM, so they're completely out of the wind instead of up close to the top. They might get a little down lower, but they'll try to. They'll seek shuns, sunshine, they will um, you know, they'll get if it gets really cool, then they'll get up and move a lot more frequently because they have to UM. And of course as it gets colder, they need more calories, so they are hitting, they are putting the feedback on more. There's no denying that. So um, the temperature is definitely number one. UM. Sorry, But to clarify, are you saying absolute temperature or temperature change or are you loving that altogether? So well, yeah, so all the all the above. So both temperature in relation to UM average temperature for that time of year. So say it's October one and it is sixty degrees out and your average temperature is say seventy degrees dear, going to you know, be moving uh somewhat more. They'll probably be hitting the food a little more, but they'll be really seeking the kind of the warmer area is they're they're not going to be in the areas necessarily that um, they would be um if it was uh, you know, say eighty degrees um. And just like in November. Say, and this is kind of one of my the lightbulb team on a couple of years ago. UM. And this was northern Wisconsin hunt. Um. So not not an Iowa hunt, the Big Woods hunt. Um. It was I was up there early early November for at hunt and we're hunting around the edge of the swamp. Um. And I could hear deer chasing out in the swamp. And I didn't see a deer the whole day that first day. And the second day, I was like, well, I'm gonna go um you know. And I was right up to the edge of the swamp. You know, I really thought I was in it. Lots of time there nothing but I could hear crashing out in the swamp. And the next day I got up um and I started to just sneak out into this island. And long story short, I didn't kill a buck, but I had a ton of action. And as soon as I started walking in the swamp, you know, it was one of those days. The temperature was nudge and eighty degrees in early November, and as soon as I went onto the swamp, it just felt a lot cooler. And the rout was going full bore out in that swamp, and there was nothing out um outside of that because it was hotter um. And it wasn't that I was outside the curious. I was in the thick stuff, but I wasn't down into into that water, and those deer were running from island to island down the swamp, you know, because it was warmer and and uh and correspondingly, actually um, I founded that same area um. The year after that, it was actually snow and so it was colder than average. It was spitting snow, miserable weather. I went out and sat um the same spot that I sat a year ago, a year before that, except it was instead of seventy eight degrees, it was thirty eight degrees. And I didn't see a deer out in that swamp all day long. I sat there all day long, um. And then I'd had a camera there and I looked and yeah, there's they were out there that was a hot weather spot. They were out, you know, running around in the islands and you know, and uh from island to island Chason does. When it was um really hot out but as as a temperature plunged, there was significantly less movement out there. And then I think they were out around the perimeter of the swamp more on drier areas because it was cold and they didn't want to walk around in the water. So Um, there's a little stuff like that. So it's both departure from average temperature and then also change of temperature. And that's really location specific like is it heating up or is it cooling down? Um? And uh are they seeking warmth or are they seeking you know cool so um Yeah that m yeah for for um location specific, it's definitely wind direction. Um. Deer use the wind. Um, There's no no doubt about it. Now they aren't always just walking into the wind or walking with the wind. They're back um, although I have seen like up north it seems like dear favor walking with the wind. They're back more often, but it's not a strong trend. But it's every location, um, and it's I think it's because of wind based betting. I'll see a lot more deer with certain wind directions. So um, that's one of my favorite ways to filter spots. You know, it's a it's an easy way. It's like, oh, this spot, two thirds of movement was on southerly winds. So you're hunting with a southerly wind, you have to even if it doesn't seem to work right for you as a hunter, you have to figure out a way to hunt it effectively with that kind of wind because if it's a sutherly wind spot and you're hunting with the north wind, you are wasting your time. So um, that's a big one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So and I used to I think back of a lot of hunts that I'd had, and I would hunt before I even really understood like the windward leeward slope deer definitely most of the time favor leward slopes. UM. Never say always or never, but um wind slopes absolutely. Um. So a windward slope UM a ridge. Imagine a ridge and the wind is blowing across it, so it's blowing from one side to the other. So the side of that ridge that the wind is hitting is the windward slope and the side away from the wind, so the wind's kind of blowing over the top of your head if you're out, you know, out of the wind on a ridge that's the leeward slope. So, um, there's many different theories. I really haven't made up my mind for exactly why, um the wind, you know, the deer travel on the leeward side. Um. Dan Infault has a good theory. I think there's something too, you know about a thermal tunnel. Um. I think there might be other things, um yeah going on there too, not just that. Um. You know, deer basically can smell the whole will ridge up wind of them, and then you know they also can smell and also see often the down the ridge below them, So they have the eyesight and the and the scent than their nose protecting them. Um. Anyway, so dear favorite leeward slopes, and I would hunt windward slopes and I'd have a rotten lock and there'd be deer sign everywhere, and why I'm not seeing deer there? And then you know, after a little while, and I've learned it from the hunting beast, which is a great thing for pete. I don't hang out there a whole lot anymore, only because I have no time left in my day, in my life, it seems like to spend on there. But um, it's a great resource for hunters to learn more about you know, um hunting and competitive environments, public land and stuff. Um. But you know, the wind direction is huge, and that's really you know, I have I have spots you know for west wind I have spots for north winds and southwest winds. Um. That's how I filter my setups, um, based on where the deer are. Would you agree that if we're looking at patterning deer, not by specific bucks, but for patterning areas locations, is it my assumption would be that wind direction and time of year are probably the most impactful variables that would tell you when a given spot would be good versus when it's not. Is that right with you? For if I'm looking locations, so those are the two biggest maybe yeah, and well and temperature and temperature, like I I have really learned, like, um, there's cold weather spots and there's hot weather spots. So that's the that's the big three. And so you're saying it's not just that deer will move more in general first, just like they'd be moving. I guess my assumption is going to be that you're gonna say temperature would just change dear movement everywhere, but then wind direction in time of year would say, okay, well this little betting air picks up with those conditions. But you're saying, actually, there's going to be specific locations that are when it's cold deer for the spot, I guess, kind of like the swamp example. Yep, yep, yep. And I've got other examples. I've got, Um, I've got I've got a really killer bed location picked out on public land here in Iowa, and I have not killed a buck there yet. I'm just waiting, um for the right buck to be in the area. Um. I've hunted it a couple of times. But it's a hot weather bed and buck consistently bed there when it's over seventy degrees in October and November. Um, and uh, it's it's you. You can't find it if if it's colder than average. I've had a camera there now watching this area for three years in a row all fall. Um. I drop it out there late summer and I picked it up in the winter and in the cold weather, there's rarely a deer in that area. Hot weather, it's I mean it's a strong percentage. Yeah. Um, it's right above a big spring, so there's a big spring coming out of the hillside and it's um about halfway down a north slope, so it's in dense shade, and it's right above water, so they can get a drink. And it's also cooler like that cool water. You go there and you just notice it's five to ten degrees cooler than if you were at the top of the hill. Um. It's harder than heck to hunt because it's you know, kind of in a hole. But I think I think I can hunt one side of it with a south wind, which of course they favor. With a south wind not so much, I think, because the wind kind of swirls. I think it's mostly the south wind is hot, you know, associated with hot weather. So um. You know. So it's that's the big three. It's time of year, temperature, wind direction, so um to me and everything else Like I used to think, you know, it's pressure, but pressure pressure doesn't dictate where a deer is. It might dictate how much they're interested in food. UM, so they might get up little earlier, UM if it's a good high pressure system. But it's not a big UM. It's not quite the driver that I thought it was. And people should keep in mind, you know, pressure and temperature UM and wind or and wind speed actually all they all go hand in hand. That they get too complicated. But you know, when you have screaming hard winds, your temper, your brometer is probably moving because that's you know, wind is air molecules going from one spot to another. And the reason they're doing that is probably because between a low pressure system and a high pressure system, you know, so so that they're correlated. You know. UM. Wind speeds another one UM, not just wind direction, the wind speed UM. The harder the wind, the lower the deer getting the hills. In my experience, UM, especially with cold winds, but in general all winds, I see them drop down at elevation UM. And if it's you know, it's a really screaming cold wind, they may be down in those valleys. UM temper early to seek shelter. So I've I've got a spot or two that if I know, I'm a big cold front during the rut with at least twenty mile in our wind gus, I'm getting down there and the rutted on down down in the valleys, and I could be up on the ridge and freezing my butt off and I wouldn't see a thing. So um, stuff like that. So, if I'm trying to implement a tracking system kind of like you have here, um, and I'm starting to think about patterning locations in this kind of way, what are some key things to make sure I'm doing or I mean there's the basics, track a bunch of data, put it in here. Is there anything or any mistakes you hear people commonly make when they talk about how they're trying to track dear movement activity or any anything you haven't mentioned to just kind of tie up the tracking part of this. Yeah, I guess that, in my opinion, the most common mistake is trying to just follow around it into visual deer. Like if you it's okay to try to go after an individual deer, but you need to fill the approach of that instead of trying to, um, you know, uh, just draw a line on a map for where he's where he's going. And I know there's some tools that have been marketed for that it's really you need to look at like where is he frequenting? And then look at those spots and why are he frequenting? UM? You know, in what conditions is he frequenting them? UM? Instead of UM looking at it from the you know, I guess trying to just project out a line on a map or where the deer is going to go. UM, you look at like, well, a majority of the time he's over you know, on this ridge system. UM. When you know, when it's you know, late October and it's cold weather, and then when it was warm weather, I would get him over here, you know, more down in this bottom you know that's UM. I find a lot more UM value in so UM. If you try to target started to interrupt your strength thought there, If you were trying to target a specific buck, would you change anything that you're doing here from a tracking system? Would you add any variables? Would you ignore any of them? Uh? Anything you did? Just That's that's where UM and I and I do. You know. I I try to keep tabs on on individual boks. I rarely go after one all by itself, you know, but it's usually like, oh, there's a couple of bucks in this area, that I want to go after. UM, I think the you may want to bring in um more data sources, so that's where it comes into. Okay, well, maybe you want to move a few more cameras into the area. UM. The challenge with this, you know, I am playing the long game, and I know in the majority of the country, hunters don't especially in public land, hunters don't have the benefit of being able to follow a deer when he's three and four and five years old. And I mean most three year old bucks get killed in Iowa two I'm publicly and okay it's not you know, some get through, but most of them will die. Um and uh so uh if what I'm doing is playing a long game for next year, you know, I'm really not looking at this year's all my cameras. Um, It's I have a few cameras that I have in more easy to access and maybe a couple that I check more frequently, but the vast majority I hunt hang and I literally I will not check them until the season's over at least I'm done hunting and I'm I'm picking stuff up. So, UM, if you're looking after an individual buck, you know, if you you know you watch closely those good up and coming three year olds. A lot of times those patterns change a little bit, but there's still somewhat similar. Um. They definitely get more nocturnal and more secretive when they hit four UM, but their areas of and are the same. Sometimes they do even shift home ranges UM. But gather as much dead as you can. UM. You know, the more options you have after a bucket, the better. You don't want to just pin your hopes on just one location you're probably going to fail. UM. But especially like once again, I'm targeting betting, UM, you know I'm going to hunt that spot once. UM. Occasionally I might hunt a spot twice, but it's really rare. That's ninety percent of my public land skills have been first time since for that location for that year. UM. And that trend to expect to continue. So and I used to hunt spots many more times, and I just wouldn't have this success. UM. So now I've just basically almost quit hunting spots more than once UM, unless it's kind of special circumstances. And I really think I got in and out clean um. And the cleaner your entry and act the exit by all means, you know, there are some you can hunt repeatedly, but it's a very rare spot, I think, um, dear will Semellia, I was gonna ask going back a little bit, um, pivoting away from individual bucks back to locations. Um. You mentioned you're typically targeting betting areas, but are there any other types of places you try to pattern? Like? Do you also set you know, fall like five months long trail camera sets over typical funnels or anything like that that you want to see what's happening year after year and you can get an annual pattern off anything other than betting areas. Yeah, Um, yeah, that's it's usually a shorter window because bucks it's all about betting outside of the rut, and even during the rut it's still all about betting, but sometimes it's not just about their betting, it's about their dough betting. So um. Usually the travel routes that I'm targeting still connect to betting areas, they doe betting areas and such. But I do put cameras um like um on good really good funnels. Um. Not usually the super obvious funnels, mostly because in public land other people are always hunting them. Um. The classic inside corners and stuff. I just I just don't see fully mature bucks using them regularly on public land. Yeah, they may occasionally, and you can occasionally kill one, but I have a lot of higher odds getting into the more um, the harder to c funnels. Like you've got a really long ridge system, and on the leeward side there's this great big ditch and basically all the deer bottlenecked into a ditch crossing, you know, a third of the way down from the top, or maybe there's a fence line, you know, and a tree fell across the fence line, and so that's that crossing on the leeward side. UM. So I'm looking for things like that, and I'll put a camera and say, you know, maybe there's betting up the ridge and bending down the ridge, so I know, deer coming back back and forth through and I'll monitor that. So it's not always you know too, it's got to do with betting, but it's it's sometimes it's uh bucks behavior chasing dose um and seeking dose after you know, around the betting areas. So yeah, I do, UM, I do that as well, UM and I do. I don't have much luck trying to determine trends for deer coming out and food sources. Um. So you know, I have occasionally, occasionally do have cameras watching food sources, but I don't usually you I don't usually look at that data that close. Um, just because deer have to eat, so they come out and eat. Um. And they may they may be more likely to come out during the day if it's optimal conditions, then they're betting closer by. But um, I have a lot better luck looking at betting trends than if they're coming out and eating a food source. You know, usually they're they're going to come out and eat every night. Maybe maybe you can find a trend er. Oh you came out in daylight and it was a big cold, that kind of thing. But um. And also, um, you actually end up with kind of too much data when you're looking at food sources because if they're on camera every single day, Okay, they're on camera every single day, what are you gonna do about it? Kind of thing? Um. Whereas betting, Oh, you know, he was using this betting area for four days out of a seven day window, and then he wasn't there for two weeks and then he was back. Um. That tells me a lot more so I interrupted you when you were talking. There's some steaks people made. Did you finish up what you wanted to cover? As far as where do you if you did hut by the moon? Hunting by the moon, I'll come out and say it. A lot of people I know on the beast are probably mad about that. But I don't know. I just I I A lot of people have had success doing it, but man, I just um, after looking at a couple of thousand data points, I just have not found any correlation between where the moon is and when they're moving. Um. It's and I'm not to say maybe it does exist, but the weather is in order of magnitude more important. UM, if he's going to get up that and and things like hunting pressure, you know, and that important. I've I've talked about all this stuff. This like hunting pressure. If you're looking at big three, UM like that probably comes first. Honestly, with a mature box. Once he's reached that age, he will not move if he doesn't feel UM safe. So UM. For example, in Iowa, UM we have an early muzzleloader season which runs third week of October. Some just as the ruts starting the heat up or second week October. I guess usually something like that, Um, depends on how the calendar lays out. UM. And I've learned, you know, there's certain areas that muzzleloader hunter hunters will frequent and I won't get anything on my cameras in that time period and for a little while after towards and then dear, I'll start showing back up um and others that Actually I see pressure betting even here. Uh you know, I over right now we don't have quite the pressure that say, uh you deal with in Michigan, certainly not in public land there, UM, but I see pressure betting meeting um. When there's a bunch of people in the woods, certain areas, deer really frequent because humans just do not get in there. It's just too nasty or you have to cross water something like that. They really um you know, and when pete humans aren't in the woods, you may not see as many deer or mature buck sightings in those areas. So UM, it's been eye opening to me. I have a couple of spots that I like to hunt during that early muscle or season because human, no other human other than me gets anywhere near there, and uh I have um uh, you know, and or maybe they do get someone near there, but they still can't see it. They're not hunting it, and dear no, they can move just that extra two hundred yards or hundred yards and be completely secure after the humans stick up the woods for a few days. An interesting thing is I'm hearing you talk about all this is I follow a lot of this data. Similarly, I pay attention to a lot of these things, and I really think there's something to it. But we're kind of using it in slightly different ways. It seems like, correct me if I'm wrong here. I'm curious to hear if you think about it in the same way I do. Sometimes. Um, So, it sounds like most of the time you're looking at this data to help you know where to hunt, like when to hunt which spot, and you're finding that a certain wind direction or a certain temperature will lead to the deer movement or the deer being better than a certain location coming to a certain location. I've always thought more so of looking at this kind of data to tell me when the chances of the very best or when's the very best chance that I'm mature buck will get up moved during daylight, and then when I get those special days, then I target like my sweet spots, like the spots where I think are like the highest odds for other reasons though. Um yeah, so I'm probably missing the boat a little bit. Maybe, but maybe is what I do in your box of tricks too? Is that how you're thinking about as well? Yeah, um, there are, yeah, there are those optimal days, but I've I've kind of learned, um, there's optimal. Yeah. We definitely are looking at it a little differently, you know, because I I see optimal days for optimal spots, you know, and maybe you're just stopping at the optimal days period and then you're going to go try to find a spot. Um. So everything ties back to like location for me. Um and uh yeah, so that I guess I try to complete that loop um so um. And I maybe my thinking has uh you know, just kind of can evolved a little bit from that because I did used to be like, oh man, there's a cold front hit next week, you know, get in the woods. You know, this is the time to hunt my best stand. Um you know, quote unquote best. Well, now I'm like, what is my best stand? I have a best stand. Every every single day that I want to hunt, I have a best stand. I like that. So yeah, so that's uh and I think that really did help help me, um, start to think like that. And I guess it does depend on how many options you have, right, So someone who has ten dad acres a public land can probably have a whole bunch of different options. Instead for whatever reason, you just hunt fifteen acres you own or something, all of a sudden you're limited. Yeah, and that and that, um, you know, like just to be like clear, I um, it's there's a lot of blanket statements made and I have a certain strategy and it's not for everybody, and I I do like and Iowa doesn't have much public land period. That's part of the reason I love to go up into Wisconsin because then I can I can really walk all day and still be on public land. In Iowa, that ain't happening. You know, thousand acre parcels humongous. You know, most of time it's too undern acre parcel um, so you're really limited. And even I know, you know, um, Michigan is even more partialized from listening to you know, a sixty acre parcel is a big parcel there southern problems, and then you go out east and you have a ten acreup parcel. That's a big parcel, you know. So it's crazy how different that that requires your strategy to be different. You know you maybe you don't have a thousand acres or ten thousand acres um, maybe you have one, you know, twenty acre parcel. I encourage you to get more options. More is better, but um, you may be limited. You know, you may be limited to where you can hunt. You can just go and hunt, and you have to find a different strategy to fit that. This, Like I've I've kind of developed this to fit my strategy of I have ten times as many spots as I can hunt as I have time to hunt any fall. So, um, how do I figure out what are the best? You know, I've scouted my butt off for years to find a bunch of really good spots and I don't have time to hunt them. So okay, well I have to filter out and try to figure out what you know and I and I know I'm a little bit I'm wired, wired a little bit different because um, I'm I'm just fanatical about efficiency, you know, Like I'm not a good spot is not good enough for me. I want the best spot. I want to find the best spot because you know it's gonna be better than the good spot. So um, and I'm always thinking like that. Over the course of you know, twenty years upon public Land, I've I've you know, started to I don't think I've just changed my thinking. Now. What I'm curious about is if you could now tie a big, nice bowl on this for me by walking me through an example or two about how you something from your data set that you've tracked over a year or two or however many years, and then implemented that into a hunt, um, and how you picked the optimal spot for the optimal time, and and what that all looks like. I'd love to better understand your whole thought process as you go through that and then execute the hunt. Yeah. Um, so let's see. It's it's ingrained. It's been ingrained into most of my Uh. Well, first of all, um, i haven't hunted a whole lot the last two years. I've killed a couple of bucks. Um. But um, you know, I've been going I'm working full time and going back to school and two little kids, and you know, last year I hunted seven times total, and it wore me out. It was pretty pathetic. UM. But the good news is my school is getting done. I'll be done with that and I'll be able to hit the woods a little harder here this fall. So I'm happy that it's happy to announce that. But UM anyway, UM, like even last year, I killed a buck UM and it was it was October. It was right on that full moon. UM, so I was expecting UM, I was expecting more pre rod activity because of the full moon. UM. There there's a spot that is it's a trial corridor UM, and it's used to a high frequency for southerly south and southeast winds for betting. So it's kind of a warmer weather betting. And it happened to be UM at that day. I think it was south south or southeast wind UM. And uh I knew that from turro camera sitting there for the lab for from the fall previous UM. And so bucks preferred to bed there when it was a little warmer than average. UM. And uh they did. They usually betted there when uh, you know the pre pre I was hunting heating up. So in the October twentie thirty, the pre rod usually heating up. But it's not linear, you know, as everybody knows who's hunted that time period. It's really um on off hot cold. You're either seeing nothing or you're seeing some really good action. There doesn't seem to be much in the middle. UM. I love the pre rod. That's my favorite time to hunt. Um that the last half of October really um so UM. And I knew that buck was in the area. UM and you know, I still remember he you know, he came in and I wish i'd gotten a camera, and I, in general, I don't have any interest in recording and videoing my hunts. But I shot him and he ran and he tipped over right in front of the rising full moon, you know. So it was coming up over the horizon just a few minutes before um the uh the closing time, you know. UM. So that's one example. UM, I've a few years let's see, UM a few years before that. I like, that's that's a good example because it was a it was a good um a number of years ago. UM. I used to think that deer didn't like to move in the um when the moon was full. And I also didn't like to think all right, I didn't think that dear really um um moved as much when it was warm out until I figured out, hey, they're really moving differently. Maybe they're moving slightly less, but like they're moving differently, and you can get on deer when it's warm out. So um, it was definitely eye opening. You know, it's like, hey, I can have success. It was you know, seventy degrees as a daytime high in late October, which is a little warmer than average for this part of the country. And um, you know, there was a big four year old, you know, twenty two inch wide nine pointer you know, up um and he was up well before dark um and then came wandering in. So um. It's it's really ingrained. And just about every single you know, one of my hunts has has that background. Um. Let's see that. I can't remember what I killed the year before I shot something, but it was another story like that. They all kind of lending together. Yeah, yeah, that um. That example I shared a couple of years ago up in Wisconsin where you know, all of a sudden, the rut was on full boar. It was hot out and there was on full boar in the islands out in the swamp, whereas there was no activity out around the perimeter the swamp, you know. And it wasn't that there was hunting pressure right there. It was just they were out where it was cold cool. Um. And that's been really eye opening. So UM, two or three years ago, I shot a two years that was another really good example. UM. I showed this is a late season hunt, and it was a muzzloader hunt. It wasn't a bow hunt, but we had a real cold snap and the temperature was about um, how about negative five degrees or something like that daytime high. UM. And I knew deer Um, I knew. I knew there was a couple of betting areas that we're more open. They were facing the south, Um they were the bucks still fell secure, they betted in them. UM. And I actually, um, you know, saw him from a distance and uh shot him there. Uh you know, I was on the far side of the valley, watching the sunlit side of the valley and there was nothing, no activity on my side of the valley because I was and it was cold, I was I was freezing um in on the shaded side of the valley. The sun was kind of behind me, you know. Uh, shining on that southerly facing slope and you know there he was, um and uh, you know picked him off, and it was it was I wouldn't have been there if it wasn't for the brew of cold weather we were having. And there was a stiff wind, so there's a pretty screaming windshell too. So um yeah, it's it's really you know, it's all conditional like that. So I feel like this is a great I mean, like my big takeaway for me personally is you know, it's good to be smart with the timing of your hunts and you don't want to overhunt things and you want to be targeted. Of course. Um, that doesn't mean though that you shouldn't hunt a lot. If you have a lot of locations to hunt, you can find ways to pattern specific locations to know the right spot to hunt, regardless of whether you have the stereotypical dynamite weather big cold front and high pressure, or maybe you've got hot weather and it's windy. But if you happen to have been tracking all these different locations, you'll start to see these patterns laid up with certain maybe on the hot days are over here on the cool great coal friends, are over here and all of a sudden, you maybe all of a sudden double your opportunities because you're not just paying attention to those spots that are great for coal friends that we all key in on. Um, yeah, it's not you know, I'm not saying don't hunt, you know, like that's another like, oh, you know, if you're not in the woods, you don't kill it. That's all right, But that's right. But I always add to that. You know, if you're not in the woods, you can't kill one. But if you hunt the wrong spot at the right spot at the wrong time, you're not going to kill on either. So um, like go hunt, hunt observation sets. That just gives you more data. You learn so much more are you know? Now, I don't have that much time, so I don't hunt observation sets. But that's not because I don't think it's effective. It's just I don't have much time. I strongly encourage people who go sit in a tree where they can see a long ways and you know, just watch what deer are doing. That gives you more information on stuff we're talking about right now. Um. But the important thing is when you figure out preferred conditions for a spot, stay the heck out of that spot until you have those conditions you know, on somewhere else. So one other follow up on this idea of if if I'm going to start tracking locations, um, that means we're setting cameras for you know, much longer maybe than the average person is putting them out there. So if I'm running a camera and put out there in August, I'm not gonna go pick it up till late January. Maybe. You know, that's that's a lot of time to put the camera out there for. Is there anything you've done differently for those cameras, whether it be how you set them up, or the batteries you use, or anything, any little set up tips that we should be thinking about if we're gonna start putting a bunch out for this purpose. Yeah. Um, so with cold weather cold water operate, if you're going to leave it there until the cold weather, Um, you kind of have to use lithium batteries. I've learned that the hard way. Um, you know how the standard batteries just they crope pretty fast, and cold weather lithium batteries are temperature they aren't affected by temperature. Um, you also need a good camera. Um, and that you know there's pros and cons. You're leaving there a long time, so you're worried about somebody walking off with it. But um, you know, I I like, you know, my Bushnell Trophy cam is my workhorse. UM. I just have had really good results with that. Browning are fairly good. There's a few other brands that I think are pretty much garbage that I won't mention. UM. And uh, anyway you leave it. UM. I like to put them up high. I've lost and like two years ago, I think I had my very first camera stole on public land. So it's going to happen, but it's actually very rare. UM. I put them up high. UM. I put a climbing stick and get them up their ten foot off the ground. Angled down, you actually cover more area. I've learned if you angle it just the right amount and get it up that high instead of hanging it, you know, three and a half feet off the ground like some people do, and you can your detection area can get a little bigger. Um. And man, it's very you know, I've lost a couple of cameras now and that's it. Um to theft UM. I've had a few male function. UM. I've this is completely my fault. I forgot to turn on UM, and my buddy, who was probably gonna listen to this, I forgot to turn it on, and I, you know, get up and walk off. And then three months later I walk up, you know, and it's still on set up mode. And you want to hurt yourself when you do that, let me tell you. Yeah, so guilty as charge. Most of us probably have done that. Yeah. It's a brutal feeling. Yeah yeah, So UM, use a camera that you have faith in, UM and work your way up. Like I would like, just be gnawed with worry. If I had gone straight from checking a camera every two weeks, which I used to do, you know, eight ten years ago. UM too, you know, I would check it more frequently even than that before that to four months, you know, But then I started leaving him a month than I started leaving him a month and a half, two months and now UM, and I have very few failures, you know, Like last year, I think I had one camera that failed um part way through UM out of a dozen plus. So, UM, it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen very often. UM. You just kind of have to figure out what works for you. UM. I will say, in the summer, it's much tougher to figure out optimal camera placement. So even though I do get some cameras out you know this time of year, it's only in spots that I'm really really confident I know exactly where to put it. Um. I really prefer to wait until like late August into September, um, because the vegetation is dying down. It's so much easier to get in place because otherwise, yeah, you get it up this and then you're gonna have ten thousand pictures of a leaf blown back and forth in front of your camera, you know. I know. So I used to run more cameras in the summer than I do now. Actually I get a few out, but they're only in spots where like either there's just not much vegetation or you know, I just know this is exactly how I need to put it, um, because I've gotten burned a lot on the summertime cameras, and it's harder on your cameras. Ants and um, you know, uh, spiders building cobwebs over your you know, um, over your sensor and stuff like that. Your or your lens or something like that. I've seen it all so um yeah, so um, you know I've minimized how much I hang in the in the summer. Um. Yeah. One other thing, so um you know talk about like optimal weather, Um, I will I will say, you know, I've I've looked at weather so much here um as everybody knows, like cold fronts are good. Um, but it's not just that um optimal. Whether the worst weather you can have for a fall is like dead average the whole fall, um. You I've learned. I really want swings, like I want warmer than average, and then I want colder than average. I want and I want those to last a little while. If those only last a day or two each, it seems like the deer get not confused, but they don't have time to establish any kind of a pattern. And it's really it just seems tougher hunting. So ideally there would be like one great big weather system every week, you know. In my mind, like if I could plan out the perfect weather for a fall, you know, and it would get well warm, significantly warmer than average, and then you'd have a twenty five degree temperature drop and then it would get warmer than average, and then you have a twenty five degree temperature drop every you know, five to seven days. So I thought I'd throw that out there, like that's perfect. You can have too turbulent a weather if it's all back and forth and the winds you know, from the south one day in the north the next day, and south and north you see sawing that, Um, that isn't optimal and nor is like south winds for you know, two weeks straight. Um, it's it's definitely Um. It just seems dear kind of settle into a routine after you know, when you get at least two three days of consistent weather, whether whether it's warm or cold, and then you can get a break in a weather system and you can you can restart those trends. So I thought, I throw that's something I've observed. That's a great point. Those swings are pretty key. So, uh, Joe, I know you need to run. We've taken a bunch of your time here, and uh, I want to be respectful of that. So maybe we can get you on again, because there's always more and more wish you could talk about with you. Uh, but it's always a pleasure and uh problem thank you for doing this, Jo, no problem, So thanks Mark, best to let this season. Let's uh, let's stay in touch. And I'm very curious to see how I might be able to start doing a little bit more of this because I think you're you're on do You're really onto something here about kind of expanding the types of places that we're tracking and not just dear not just the best weather, but also how alternate weather patterns can lead dear to certain spots and maybe we're not paying attention to so intriguing and good stuff, and that is it. I hope all of you fellow dear geeks out there enjoyed this one as much as I did. Um after talking to Joe, I actually went and started compiling a new data set for the number one buck I'm after here in Michigan, this dear have been calling. Tran just logged all of his daytime activity. I've got fifteen different days worth of dailight activity that I'm now going to be cross referencing to all this different kind of data that we talked about. So needless to say, I'm I'm excited and uh just can't wait for the season to get here. So thanks for listening, and you can check out more by heading over to the meat Eater dot com, which is where all the new podcasts are going, where my new articles are going, where future new videos are going, as well as all the rest of the mediat networks great podcasts and contributors. You can see articles from the Baritone himself, spend some new hearth. You can check out our podcast with Steve ron Ellen, Ryan Callahan and Ben O'Brien and April Vokey. Um, all sorts of good stuff out there, and uh, I think you'll find a little bit of something no matter what kind of person you are. So with all that said, thank you for listening, and until next time, stay wired to hunt.

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