00:00:02 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm your host, Mark Kenyan. In this episode number turn in seventy four and to date, we've got an expert slate of guests for you, including Tony Peterson, Ben O'Brien, Spencer New Hearth, and we're going around the table to get you prepped just in time for spring. On all things turkey hunting. Today we are taking a hard left turn off the usual path of white tails and talking about our favorite two footed, two winged big dragon and joining me to talk turkeys are kind of once a year turkey episode. To my left, I have our baritone from another mother, Spencer New Hearth. Spencer, thanks. I'm in Montana, by the way, we're at the Mediator headquarters, so I've got a whole little people around me to pick and choose from, and I picked three three folks talk turkeys. Next in the line was Ben talk to me, Ben, Well, I'm glad to be on. I just feel like you're in your description of turkeys and it's just your disdain for everything but white Tails. I'm just not I don't know if I'm happy to be here or not. We'll see. I have no disdain for anything but whiteout. I just really really love white tails. Can you can you give us like a dirty second? Uh? Intro though to what it is you do, because we actually haven't had had you on the show yet. I haven't heard about your podcast yet. Yeah, I've been boycotting the show for a while. She've been asking me to come on. I'm glad you finally caved. I finally caved. No, I have a program called the Hunting Collective that's also a part of the Meat Eater Network. Um, the director of Hunting here at the Flagship, and um, that's what I do. Excellent. Next we got Tony Peterson. Tony, welcome back. Thanks for having me man. And you're doing some podcasting now, right, I am. I was the one guy left who wasn't doing it, so I'm doing it. And I'm doing two of them, which means which makes me like the person who gets two puppies and things they can train them. Because it was not not not the best decision I've made. I should have spaced them out, but I didn't, So here I am What are they about? Uh? The one that the one that we started with is a sporting dog talk and it's just my love of bird dogs And I don't know if you're paying attention in this office. My favorite meat eater so far as moose. I've been sneaking out to pet that dog a lot sents of pictures to my daughter. And then I've got another one called Hunt for Real, which is just do it yourself hunting stuff that I you know, not not white tail specific, not bow hunting specific, but just the kind of hunting I want to talk about. I like it. I always enjoy talking hunt with you, So I'm interested here hunt you do you want to talk about? It should be good. Uh turkeys Turkey tour, Ben, You're doing this turkey tour, which got me thinking that now would be a great time for us to talk about turkeys all this group, because we're least some of us are gonna be turkey hunting together soon hopefully. What is this that you're doing? Well, you know, I like to kill turkey's mark, as you know, and most of them I shoot right in their faces. Uh yeah, all of them. I don't I like to have ever missed turkey. Oh yeah, so you don't shoot all of them in the face, So I said most. If you heard me talking, I said most, But yeah, all the ones that die I get shot fair enough. So this it started when I was hunting. I had a turkeys with a bow a lot, and I realized that quite often, unlike you know, some states like South Dakota have archery only seasons are are times of the year, but most of the time, like you can choose your weapon when it comes to turkeys. And I realized a couple of years ago that I I have a better chance to shoot him than with a shotgun then with a bow. And then I also realized that around the same time I had this like turkey an epiphany, that my wife would say that she liked to buy chicken a lot because we've never had enough white meat. And so I it was like to this three years ago I set out if I was like, if I was like, I can kill ten turkeys in a year, I feel like that would cover our white meat needs. There was like a calculation behind that that yeah, no, I had. It was and it's I'm not going to repeat it because now I really want to know that now we have to hear the fella rode in. It was like, you're way wrong, and here's why he was right, and he was right. But I just feel though, if you just think about the meat that you get off a turkey, right, if you if you would eat through one turkey roughly a month, you'd be good to go, right, so at least you kind of have it used to say twelve, but I don't think I'll ever get to twelve. So I think if I can get the double digits, that'd be just fine. So it's it's a utility that I need. The white meat, right, So I got last year, I smoked a couple of breasts and sliced it for lunch meat and vaccine it and it lasted for I mean two weeks, was still really good. So you can replace your lunch meat and take you can replace any really an white meat intake that you have. My wife's used to buy chicken. Now what about the dark beat? Oh, the dark meat is good too, Okay, yeah, yeah, I want to make sure you're not hating me and tell us we're just talking about all our legs and thighs ideas um turkeys, you guys, about our legs and thighs our turkey legs and thighs. So that's how it started. And I'm trying to been trying to kill ten turkeys for the last two seasons and I have yet to accomplish that. I think I killed six one year and then four the next year, so ten total in two years. But this year I've got it laid out to where I might be able to hit my ten. So two questions. Number one, is it true that several of us in the office yesterday saw you put on a full body turkey suit. Yes, that's true, okay. And the number two, where are you going to be going this year to try to pull off the ten turkey? I might wear the suit. That would be something I like to kill turkey. Well, being a turkey, I like to be an innovator, you know, I like to innovate. Um be the decoy turkey version. I can see the look on the turkey's face when the decoy pulls out a shotgunt um. No. We're gonna start in Texas. We're doing a nice hunt with the boys at YEDI down there in Texas. I got a couple of places by Atlanto River that we're gonna go run around trying to kill some birds. So you can kill four there, right, So that's that's one of the only hunting reasons to like Texas. The rest of them, like the rest of it is this bleak. They've got the whole numbers thing figured out too. But you can kill four is a nonresident there. So if I'm ever so lucky to kill four there, then we're gonna come back to Montana. We're going to set off. You, Spencer and I are gonna set off for South Dakota, the Black Hills. I'm excited about that. Yeah, a little public land. I heard, like you said Newburgh was gonna be there, man, I heard that the crew like tripled in size. Who's who's doing this? How is it that this is your Turkey tour? But you're asking Spencer about who's on the train. We're trying to bring people in. We're trying to be an open We're open here at the which I love. Yeah, at the Turkey Tour. We're open to all commerce, Tony, Like, you're welcome to come, listeners, listen whatever, We'll trap the pins. We don't care. We want everybody to be hunting turks. But I feel like this, like other people have now co opted that that particular stop right. So Sam Soholt and I are the resident South Dakotans. We've killed a number of turkey there, so we're gonna be kind of your guide like Ben mark Uh. There's also going to be the hunting public guys there. I'm not sure specifically who. I assume Zack and Jake Um and then Randy Newburgh. So the crew didn't even like turkeys, though I don't know he tried to. He he thought he had to do a turkey hunting trip somewhere for some reason. He tried to pawn it off on me once. He's like turkeys, do you like him? Yeah? Well, and he's always said he one in hunt with me, so maybe he did. As it's why so he doesn't like turkeys, but he'll trap muskrats. I guess so I don't. It's a hard to understand individual. Anyway, that sounds like that's gonna be a good time. It will be a really good time. So good. I'll just go to the stop number two on your tour and then we're gonna we're like thinking about Wyoming. That's still possibility. The guys from weather Be have some areas down there, right, So we're gonna drive from there and we're gonna drive down to the beach at Rendezvous, which is in Boise. So we're gonna roll through Wyoming and see if we can't snake a bird out of there. Then we're gonna go do the rendezvous and then roll up through Idaho, do a couple of days of hunting, and then roll to Oregon do a hunt, and then go back to Montana do a hunt, and then that would be the end. Is this gonna be all consecutive days? Those will Yeah, Texas is next week? Got you? So? So how many days in one fell swoop of turkey on? You can do? Sevent I feel like you you laid it out, like, oh, you just naturally drive, you know, just a little ways and you're at this other place. But there's like ten hour Johnson there and yeah. The great thing is you could be turkey hunting along the way. Right, you stop, you get a sandwich, look for turkey, I wrote, hunt. Yeah, of course I do. I'm trying to get this is a this is utility, bro. I don't have time to be I don't want time fair chase or anything like that. Very busy, you're gonna shoot some white ones and if you want to get ten two keys. Yeah, I feel like I can get it done. But it's gonna be a long it's a long shot. Let's just be honest. What do you think your odds are, honestly like to get ten? If you had to put, if I if I was five bucks, big big, you're big, You're big, Michigan boys really good deep. Uh. If I had to say, I would say very low, very low. Maybe maybe ten percent, maybe one in ten chance I could. Yeah, I think it's gonna get you better than that. I just think all those different states. You know, truck breaks down, you miss one of the states, and other than Texas, all public lands too, and none of them you know, I'll have you, I'll have Spencer as a guide on South Dakota, but most of them will just be running the gun and finding spots where birds are and and going going for it. So I feel like you're gonna need to kill four in Texas to have a chance. The rest is pretty It's it's gonna be tough. It's gonna be tough four in Texas. So I'll probably spend a little extra time in Texas just to make sure those four in the bag. But I could kill more than one in Montana too, So if I get done the tour and I'm just one or two short, then I can because it's broken down into region. In Montana, right there's only one, one, one or two areas that are draw but the rest of them are over the counter. So I I feel like I'll give myself a little leeway. Um, yeah, that's it's gonna be a hell of a trip. So you're shooting for ten turkeys? Yeah, Spencer? How many where are you hunting turkeys this year? And how many do you think you're gonna get? So I got a few tags in Montana. Um, And then I think I have five tags in South Dakota, but turkey tags actually six year. You should try to kill five in South Dakota. I know, I can't. What I still have my I still a resident there. You're still a resident, so you gotta you get your non resident turkey Montana turkey. Yes, So I have a few tags in Montana as a non resident. And then in South Dakota, I think I have six tags, but like three of them three of them are areas that I have never hunted in like not even ben just because there was some leftover tags and it's my last time being a resident there, I figured I would load up on tags, So I think i'll maybe feel half of those, like three out of six in South Dakota and then Montana. This is all foreign to me, so maybe one out of the two tags that I have here to Turkey and plans. I got some plans. I'm only shooting for five. I'm gonna I'm gonna buy my three tags for Nebraska see if I can see if I can knock out three down there in public land and hunting home in Minnesota, and then kind of bought a random tag down in Iowa because I want to scout some public land down there for deer, so that'll be a shotgun deal. But I'm if everything goes perfectly for me, I'll get halfway to the ten turkey goal, and that that'd make me happy because I'd also be done turkey hunting by the time the good fishing starts there. Yeah, and I feel like I'll probably take an interlude for bear season at some point. But if you're shooting for ten and you get six, you feel real good about life. You're happy with six score is in your tests? Absolutely? Have you ever met me? We've talked about this many times, Mark Kenyan. I very much feel that I shoot for average because I don't want anybody to think that I'm real good at anything. Yesterday bends like you know, I piss excellence. I'm like, no, I feel like you're more of the type that ships adequate. That's very true. I strive to be just good enough not to impress anybody. What are your Turkey plans? I mean I have the most unexciting plans compared to the whole group, So I brought the right people in because I'm born. We only get one tag in Michigan, so I've got that, and then in South Dakota. Yeah, and then I lost my Hio spots. So I usually Turkey on Ohio. But that's not happening now for sure. Um So the only other thing would be if I try to slip into Montana hunt. Oh. Yeah, I am going to Ohio for a child's birthday party, and I was thinking that maybe while I was there, I would sneak out. You're going all the way to Ohio for a child's birthday party? Yeah? I like this child I'm a child. No, it's a child of my brother, so I like it. Definitely got to clarify that I really like this child. This child is cool. Context I met him on the internet. So we've got We've got multiple turkey seasons in Michigan. You have to pick a certain bracket like many states do. And I'm always finding myself debating, like do I want the early season? Do I want to wait in the late seasons? It's a later bracket, Like you can get the whole month of May if you get the late tag. If you do the early tag, you only get two weeks, and sometimes it's not a bunch of weeks, like two weekends. You don't get like three weekends on either side, so you're more limited. I always used to like that early season. I just felt like there were certain things going that made it better for me. Um, But I am curious what the consensus is in this group. What part of the spring do you think is the best for turkey hunting early, Let's say like early being sometime early April. Will say mid season is like late April, early May, late seasons anything past that date? Do you, Tony, do you have something that jumps out like, what do you think the best Turkey ning is. If I'm on private land, I like to get out there right away. I love the early season birds. A lot of times on public land, by the time May rolls around, those parking lots will clear out a little bit. Those birds are roman they're eating bugs, leafed out, they got a lot of food, they're covering ground, and the pressure is way down. So it's just it just depends a situational But generally that would be my decision, or that would be my my preference. I guess, yeah, I'm right, I'm right there with you. Yeah, I think that, Like I've had most of my success in our earlier early seasons. As soon as I can possibly get out there, even if I have to battle some shitty weather, you know, to do it, I feel like that's you know, for sure, on private lands public lands, I'm usually just taking when I can get a type of type of guy. But if I had, if I had to pick, I would I would go away, Spencer. My preference would probably be like, uh me in April, I don't want to. Are you many pressured Turkey areas so people aren't a concern, but weather can be like the beginning of April. It would not be uncommon to have a big snowstorm in South Dakota or something, and I don't want to have to worry about that. So, uh, mid April is probably my favorite time. The turkeys are uneducated, Uh, they're excited because the weather is nice as well. That's probably my favorite time of year to be out. Yeah, that's always why I picked the early tag for Michigan, which opens usually April, which is as early as we can get. I always felt like they have been pressured yet, just seems like they're more susceptible to calls, just a little more gullable to everything. But I am definitely not like the expert turkey guy. I find myself to be a competent turkey guy. I get my turkey every year, but I'm not the guy that goes around and kills ten um. So what I don't really know is when do you think like the best like gabbling is where turkey is the most talkative. Is it early too? I mean it just really depends. There's so many factors. You know, I've seen I've seen turkeys that won't gobble because well in Texas, I've seen turkey's just won't ever gobble or rarely do because not because pressure of hunters, but professors of coyotes. Coyotes affect that. So I feel like you've got to really know the birds you're like, just like white tails or anything else, you have to know the birds you're hunting, like what what will cause them too, because if they're unpressured, there's no hunters, there's no predators. They feel comfortable, I mean, get after them as soon as they possibly as soon as the sun comes out. They're normally lighten it up well, And that's if you're asking when are you gonna hear the most gobbling first light? When are you gonna run into the bird that you can call in and kill? A lot of times that's the middle of the day stuff, you know, I mean, especially if it's real early season stuff where they're you know, they seem to go from super flocked up two smaller flocks and then throughout the day they might peel off and go cruising or something. So if you want to hear lots of birds and see all that activity out in the fields first light, but a lot of times you're just looking for the one bird that will work. But what about time of year for best gobbling time of year, you're more gobbling early. Yeah, I mean, but you'll hear you know, it's the same thing. That's like, you'll hear a ton of gobbling at sunrise, but if you hear, if you get a bird to fire up at ten o'clock in the morning, you kill him. And late season you hear way fewer birds gobbling, But if you get one that's wants to talk to you, that bird you can talk him in. You know. Do you think that's like the late rut buck that you get those big old cruisers like November, and they're a little more acceptable because I know there's still a hot door around and and they're the only ones left doing that. Is that kind of what you think of those late season turkeys are doing like there's an old guy that knows it can still be had. I think it's because the hens aren't concentrated anymore. I think there's so much more food available and there's nesting, you know, so they're they gotta just try harder to find any lady that's ready or that might be ready. So I think they're just covering more ground and more susceptible to those you know if that's what mean, It really depends. I mean, I learned so much about turkey movement hunting this franch in Texas where like said, turkeys did gobble. It was it was like pattern a white tail. I mean, I would I knew I had two birds when I when I ended up killing that, I knew no dead they dead meat. Uh. I handed him for four days and I had him that he did not never gobblet one time. He had two hands with him the first day, but then he would split. He would fly down with his hands. They would walk over to a feeder do their Texas turkey thing, and then they the hands will drop down into the bottom and he would leave him and go cruise. Right. He had his little he had like a route that he would cruise. He would go up this little food plot, strut around a little bit, gobble maybe once maybe and the sun if the sun came out, and he felt real comfortable and warm and happy, and then he would come back around, hit this road and just peck his way back on the road, eating bugs, doing his thing, get back to his hands and then stay with them in the afternoon and then fly up to the roost. And so there was two birds that were doing kind of the same thing off the same group, and because they would only got but like I only heard him every gob once or twice the two of them. You just had to pattern him. So I got I got to where I just would sit on the road because I knew I'd wait till he flew down. I'd watch him because I wasn't gonna kill him on the feeder. I'm saying, I'm not doing that. I'm gonna I'm gonna let them do what they do. They drop down on the bottom, and I just go get ahead of him and get on the road between the food plot and where I knew he was headed. It took me three days by end up killing him, and it was a completely silent affair. I'm just sitting there up against the tree, had a little brush in front of me, look over and he's just walking down the road doing what he was doing, and I just swung up and shot him. So he didn't call him in. Does anyone else feel like it's a little I was talking to Donny Vincent once about it, and he described this like so simply but like perfectly for me too. When it comes like turkey hunting, you kind of want him to do the thing like I kind of like, if I'm gonna kill a turkey, I want him to do the thing I wanted to be Goblin's head off, tearing into me like my blood's pumping, and I shoot him that way? Does that the way you kill him? Was that just as satisfying? Or do you kind of like I kind of would have been more fun if he could have been gobblin and I was calling and he was gabbling and I was calling. I don't not look at it that way. I mean, it was cool because it was even more exciting to me because I had to do some work. And I feel like you, like you ask a lot of turkeys what a turkey's doing, they don't know. They don't know because the equation is normally here bird and roost, go to where bird is set up, call, bird comes in or not, bird goes away, I find another bird, or get around in that same bird. So you're not really understanding its movements or where it wants to go because then it's so susceptible to your calls at that time. So when you get in a situation where you have to actually learn its movements and understand like what it wants to do and where it might be at a certain time of day, rather than just manipulating its movements and makes see if it works. I think that's a little more. It was more exciting to me in that way because I really had to. I mean, turkeys are not They're not, dear man, that they see you and if you move like they're not something you can still hunt. They're not something you can just set up on and hope they walk under a tree. You know, it's it's not something that's not because that's not how you hunt them. So to be able to do that was more exciting for me. But I could see I mean I love that more than any more than anything in the in the woods, seeing a turkey strut, you know. So I could see somebody being a little like if one just I had one, I shot four bird. I don't have four birds. Last year, two of them didn't gobble and I didn't call him in. One was in the pouring down rain in Florida. We were just nobody would sit, So I was like, I'll just go sit rather than sit to lodge, I'm just gonna sit in the sit in the blind. I'd rather just be wet in there than be drying. And I just had a bird come around the corner with two hands pouring down rain, Like I didn't I watch my pattern go through the rain when I shot, and I just had a decoy on and he just turned the corner, saw the decoy, and slowly, just as a wet, cold, miserable bird would be, just kind of slowly made his way over. I went to the decoy and I shot him. So, speaking of the rain and stuff, um, I'm always trying to and you allude to his a little bit, but you have you, guys, seen any somewhat consistent connections between certain conditions and gobling, like when X happens, gobling is really great, like cold front comes through a great goblin or this kind of weather, this kind of anything is do you guys seen anything like rules like that that you've identified, Peach weather Man, I want the sun out in the morning and not a lot of wind, a lot of rain, anything like that. I wanted to be nice, nice spring weather. That seems to be the best. Yeah, you get a lot of wind or a like a random snowstorm that rolls through in in April, or a ton of rain that typically shuts down goblin. Like U s earlier about time of year, I would say there are much more important factors, like what the weather is doing that day, how much pressure they've had, that kind of thing, because I think nasty weather can really shut down turkeys. Yeah, I was talking about that burn in Texas that was patternable. He was only pasterable because nobody hunted him. There's a ranch where like they just love to hear they didn't care about turkeys, and so I was like one of the only guys who cared about hunting turkeys. And this is you know, I've watched that bird through spotting scopes do the same thing based almost every day, Like he would make little variances based on like if you saw some food somewhere that he wanted to go. But he starts to learn that that's that they are habitual in that in spring. But they're always getting bumped off of their route. You know, they're always getting somewhere different and they're all you know, so you learn that about them. But yeah, I mean when the sun comes out, I I always get your turkey hunting and there's like a cloud and the sun comes from behind the cloud, like you just picture that gob would be like, oh yeah, yeah, and that's what you know, that's what that gobbles about sometimes, just like yep, let's do this, you know, feeling good. So I think that's sometimes, you know, the best reaction. Yeah, I've certainly seen the same thing. But I've seen that with the rain. One thing that I remember reading a long time ago and saw it to be truth. I think there's lots of times when the steady rain you'll get these birds often go out to the middle fields. Um. So that's like one thing I feel like pretty consistently have seen. So if it's raining, I'll go obviously because you know you're gonna be able to see him. Yeah, have you guys found any other like what do you do when it's raining or what do you do when it's snowing and shuts things down in that kind of way? Do you guys have a go to for that kind of unique circumstance? But so two years ago I killed a turkey in a blizzard in the Black Hills where we'll be um and I wrote about that story for Field and Stream. But it's a blizzard roll then it was really nasty, uh, And it was like I only had a few days in the Black Hills, and prior to that it was like seventy degrees and beautiful, um, and so I felt pretty good about where I was going to find these turkeys because I had seen them there before and they were not talking, they were not there. Um. It just had to shut them down, basically. So I got in my pickup and I drove and drove and drove, and I finally, Uh, the snow was like super fresh because it was constantly coming down, and I cut some turkey tracks across your driving specifically to do that, to try to tracks just like sea turkeys anything, because the Black Hills are a lot of national forest um and so like basically I threw my turkey hunting plan out of the window and gotten my pickup because I only had a few days. Uh and and basically road hunting, that's not what it ended up being. I cut some tracks and found some turkeys on a bit of public ground. But uh, if it's super snowy or the weather is really nasty, I don't know if there's much you can do out there to like Killy Gobbler, So yeah, if you man, if you got a lot of ground, though, I killed the bird in the Black Hills in the blizzard, and it was basically what you said we were on in this bird that he would roost above this you know, it was a pretty big creek and as the damn river, and he would roost above it. And then he I hunted for two days where he would just always fly to the different side if I was on one side river, so much would fly to the other side if I was on the other side. And it was it was flying up to roost and flying down from roost. That happened to me four straight times where he just did the exact topsit thing of what I've who was wanting him to do and had planned he might do. And so I just remember it started snowing, and I thought, well, I gotta get up and trying to find a bird hunkered away somewhere. If I could find a gobbler hunkered away trying to stay warm and some kind of like right Parian corridor, a bunch of like tall grass, I can find one like, then I can crawl him up. It was windy and cold, I can crawl him up. He's not going anywhere, and he's gonna want to stay tight. So I ended up finding a bird just on this like back side of this this old lady's house, and there was a ridge behind it that went all the way down to this river, and there was two or three gobblers just kind of tucked up in this little behind this little bank, this little clay bank. And I saw him from the road over the lady's house. Said, hey, you mind, fine? She said sure. So she's like, yeah, there are there there all the time. I was like, okay, good. So so I parked my truck and went around and crawled up the hill and crawled right up to him and shot on. It was a big gobbler's one of the bigges scholars ever shot. And that works someplace in the Black Hills because there's a ton of public ground. There's a ton of people who will allow you to hunt because there's not like a ton of hunting pressure, and so it's not a common to even find private ground. If there was a snowstorm in a bunch the turkeys hunkered down in some feed lot or whatever, that you would be able to get permission. I'm not saying that works everywhere, because it doesn't, but Black Hills are kind of an exception to that. Rule if it wasn't that case, I don't know what you define a snowstorm Turkey. If you have like a least property or a small properties, like you know, you're not going to get a trade around. Yeah, so you know, the rain thinks pretty easy, I think. I mean, you get out to the fields, and I don't I don't know if they're doing that because they feel safer out there, you know, because they're some of their senses are a little bit dull if you're in a rain. But you know, they may be eating worms. Who knows, right. But one thing that I see a lot of people they don't hunt in the wind. And I'll never forget. I used to go down to northern Missouri, where where I grew up in southeastern Minnesota. The first like big out of state hunt ever did was just driving northern Missouri and camp on public land and one of the first birds I ever killed down there. Um, it was super windy. You know, we're camping in a ten It was like thirty mile pro hour sustained winds and we had to hunt, nothing else to do. So I went out in the morning and I was I just remember walking along through the spot and I got behind this hill and it was like quiet, just to hit that little micro climate is probably not the right word, but it was just down wind. You were out of the wind. And I looked up in the trees and there was turkeys roosted all over. I could see them silhouette. I just sat down started calling that first light. Big Tom flew down dumped him, and I was like hmmm. And so I started paying attention to if it's windy the night before, where are they going to roost? And so like, you go to some places in Texas or somewhere, there might just be a roost right where that's the roost. But a lot of places you go to the you know, drift less area in southeastern Minnesota and it's bluffs or you know a lot of places. I've seen it in Oklahoma. I've seen it in Nebraska. If the wind's coming in a certain way in the evening, they're going to roost according to that, And you can play off of that a little bit and so not then you're not taking yourself out of the game and saying I'm not gonna hunt. You can at least start with some kind of strategy and they you know, they may not be gobbling as much. But if you can get if you can get in on them, which you usually can if it's windy, then you can be set up where that bird that might not work in a traditional situation because it's windy, he might go, well it's worth it, you know, or it gets light out he sees your decoy hundred fifty yards away. So there's something to that. So you're saying that they tend to roost in areas like back under a ridge or something kind of shelter to get shelter, right, Is that what you're saying. I see it a lot if they if it's available to you know, sometimes train doesn't do it. But it's the same thing. Like you know, you just sometimes if you're if you're hunting elk early season or you're hunting white tails or something, you walk into a place and it's a little cooler and you can feel it. You know, they're a where ever those animals live out there, they know all those little microclimates. Or the deer that if it's hot, he goes in beds in the in the corn field where you know, where you can catch the wind just right in the soil is cool or whatever, and they know all that stuff, and like like Ben said about we a lot of times we don't really know what's going on out there, you know. It's part of it's we're not watching their day to day patterns in the circuit they're making, and we're just kind of like dipping into their world hoping, hoping it plays out our way. Then we dip out. And the more you more time you spend out there, you see stuff like that happen. You go, that's not an accident what they're doing. Oh yeah, yeah, I learned that then Iowa a couple years ago too. I mean, you just like we're hunting John Dudley's place, and you just could get up on a bluff and watch these turkeys do their thing like and watch him come out. When it was nice. It would if it was sunny, right off, they would fly down all the roofs and go strut right and then they would get in some kind of bottom or some river bottom, and they would feed in there and they would feed up. They were feeding up into a direction where they know they would hit this top food plot, and when the afternoon would come, the gobbler would be out there by himself strutting right, he would leave his hands and go out and do a little show, and then they would drop back down and kind of work their way back to where they started. And we killed some birds just doing that, you know. But it was also just you learn them like a lot of turkeys hunters just don't do. You don't learn like you. It would be hard to consistently kill whitetail if you if you couldn't, if if you had no idea what they did, that it would be imposcess. The greatest silver statement I've ever heard. If you're just like, I'll just go what I'll do is I'll just go sit in a tree close to where I think they are, and then I'll grunt and rattle and then I'll kill him. Like you would never one you would ever learn anything right, and two you would never do you would It would be terrible. I'm gonna say this, that's not an untried practice. Like I mean, there are people out there who are doing exactly what you just described there, yep, And they might every once in a while you might get yourself with a nice buck, but it's not going to be consistent. But I think that's what turkey hunters missed. So often is that there is this. You know, all birds all I find. All birds are different. That's what makes turkey hunts are damn fun. You know you've run into you may. I have had stretches where it's like this is too easy. I mean when I was living in Illinois, I every opening day, I'd take that first season, just like you, the first season. I'd get my tag, and I like, first season, that's what I want. I give my first season tag, and I never hunted more in an hour or two. You know, this is a little bit of light scouting and find a bird and have a nice day and bamp done. You know, so you get in those grooves where it's like this is easy. Then you get to like a swamp bird in Louisiana that just like lives in mangled mess of nothing and will not do what you need him to do. And then you think like this is impossible. You know, you go somewhere like in Texas where they won't gobble, and you're just like I see him. When they're gobbling, it seems like they're everywhere. When they're quiet, it seems like there's no turkeys. So it's just a different deal. It's funny. How the expectation of things changes your experienced so much like I don't hear deer making noises all the time, but I know there's deer around. But the same to your point, when I don't hear turkeys and like, godd damn it, they're just because you go into your elk is the other one, Like it's just an expectation, dude. I love walking around the hard woods and looking for scratching and looking for like, Okay, what's he scratching at? Like what's what's he getting at here? You know, and looking for exactly what they're doing. What tree are they under right now? What are they doing this tree? But why are they doing this route? Why are they scratching here? This is where they're comfortable. If they're here scratching, they would have to be where they're comfortable or where they're you know. There's always seems to be like these midday hideaways that these turkeys have. Most turkeys have where they go when there, they don't want to strut, they're not after a hand. They kind of just want to be safe and sound. So it seems like I've seen that with turkeys all over the country that they kind of act like that. So, speaking of these other things that you're seeing all across the country, you guys have hunted some more diverse places for turkeys than I have. Um, you're talking about roosting locations and how when do might affect roosting locations you have always obviously there's like your kind of generic big kind of horizontal, big roosting type branches on certain trees that you tend to think of that will be a great roosting spot. I've also heard sometimes that turkeys will like to roost overstanding water, where they can be overstanding water but then then fly down to something dry relatively nearby. Um, have you guys seen any other typical kind of If I see that, I'm thinking that could be a good roosting spot. Um, that stands out that you look for keyan on so called the good ones mark. I was gonna say over water. Well, you know what I wonder about the over water thing is that because in some places the only the best place to fly off will be around where there's a low spot of stay any water. Yeah, I mean it seems yeah, I mean it's not they don't like looking down at fish. I mean they do it because they have a fly off spot. Yeah, but I also think it's there's a safety I heard too, like the predator can approach from only one one side, you would think, right without making a bunch of noise. I don't know that's that's probably not as prevalenced what you're talking about, but it could be. But I've seen, you know, I've watched birds. I mean we had were there in Mexico and those birds were flying a hundred feet in the air. I didn't get to see it, but you guys are talking about it. I mean they just they flew off plane cliff. So we were me and our media to CEO Kevin Slim. We're sitting down waiting for Steve and you were with him. Steven, Mark and Cal are coming off this ridge. We're gonna all meet up and go to a different spot chase CU's deer. And we looked up in the air. Got a video of It's not very good because they're so high up in the air. We looked up in the air like, what's that like, buzzers, what's what's I mean, I'm talking a hundred feet in the air. I mean it was high. There's these turkeys who must have flown off of how one of these high ridges and we're soaring in the wind like like they were, and in a flock like almost in a flying v just soaring in the wind. And they landed on this ridge and they just watched them walk up like normal. I've never seen like that in my light wild and they were I mean gliding, I mean floating in the air, not as you normally see them dropping at a fast pace like they were just making their way over to that ridge. And I've never seen anything like it. Why usually envision turkeys, you know, just like they were thrown off a cliff and they're just kind of stumbling through the air. But I said, yeah, that's what turkeys. They're just I feel like turkeys sometimes aren't that hard to figure out, you know. They they fly with the wind their backs, like they like the places where they're not in the wind right when they roust. You think they come off the tree with the wind to their back. No, they fly up to the roost A lot of times the wind they're back. So I've seen them like posture on a ridge and like wait till the winds right go up and fly in. I've seen that, um so I've seen a lot of things, but seen him. They like Tony was saying earlier, they like to be out of the wind. They like to be out of the elements. So if they can get in a big tree branch and in a tall oak or something with a big canopy, they like that. Like they like to be at to have a ridge at the to block the wind. Sometimes they like to be in a place where the sun first hits um. You know like that. You know, you know what I think is, you know, we keep talking about or you keep talking about, they're the pattern or their behavior that we're just not paying attention to. If you start hunting them in the fall, when you take the breeding instinct out and it's just survival food and you know, Lazarins repeat, you see how patternable turkeys are, and it's it's incredible what they're you know, the scratching you're talking about scouting. If you find a place they like to go eat today at ten o'clock in the morning, they go there tomorrow. And the only difference in the spring is that they get the breeding thing, that randomness, and so it's like elk. When you talk to somebody who's consistent on elk. You know, you have that X factor, right, But for the most part, to to hedge their bets, they're like, Okay, what do they need now? Is it sanctuary? Is it food? It as the water? Is it what? What's everything they need? And then you just throw that X factor in. Turkeys are the same. We just don't give them as much credit, but it's the same thing going on out there. And Sam soul old Head probably the best description for turkeys I've ever heard. He said that they are rumbas with feathers, because like they get out there and they're like gold at a ways and they hit a fence and they're like just turn around, and then they go somewhere else and they hit like a creek that they don't want to fly over, so then they go another direction. So like turkeys, yeah, they're they're patternable to an extent, but like in the woods, it just seems so random. They look lost. It's not random, it's not man well, sometimes it seems that way. But that's why as turkey hunters you feel really good. I call it a bird in South Dakota over a freaking river and we I was just calling to him just to see what he would do. I was not thinking, he's not gonna fly over that to come over here, and he did, and the dude I was with shot him and I was like, wow, that means does that mean I'm good? He's willing to do that? Just but you could have another bird and you could call just the same notes and he's not even interesting, you know. So it's just that's the great thing about turkeys, Like one is gonna act totally different than the other, and like then those interactions are patternable, right, But every once in a while you get a bird, it's like, what's he doing? He wouldn't be doing that? He how was he drunk? And you would ask about like like if you could identify a tree, you would be good roosting just by looking at it. And that'd be tough without seeing a bunch of sign around it, Like the turkey crap is an obvious one, and I think it's like j turkey crap is uh male and just like piles of it as a female or whatever. That's one thing you can look for. And if turkeys use that area often there will be so much sign that you cannot possibly miss it, Like there'll be feathers, uh they'll be you know, areas where they were scratching or dusting and stuff like that. So and I come from South Dakota where there's a lot of fractured habitat um And what I'm getting at is you could look at aerial topography or you could drive by a property from miles away and look at and be like that has You're in it for sure, no doubt about it. There's white tail that lived there. But that's not always a case with turkeys. It would be challenging in a lot of Midwestern states where there's like the fractured habitat to know that every draw or whatever is going to have turkeys just because it looks good. So so what I'm saying is a lot of times you have to see them there or something, or see the overwhelming them on a sign to know that there's turkeys in that area. Yeah, there's some places, like I've seen it in Florida with less in Florida, but in Texas for sure. Like Tony was saying, there's like a roost trip and you're like, oh, well, that's awesome, that's great. That's my favorite. Although it's my favorite and my least favorite because it's only if you're hunting. It's good. If there's other hunters around, it's like they're all I definitely have seen, like in a handful of places that I have like consistently hunted year after year, that there certainly are like consistent locations, Like I always know there's a chance that we're going to hear birds roosted in that little pocket, and if they're not there, they're probably gonna be over this swamp right there, And like I've always wondered and tried to start identifying why, what's the why around that? But sometimes they did a little wonky. Well, let's say it's good to think about different turkeys in different places and try to, like, is there similarities I've seen, like slews almost always seem to have slews a big overhanging branches. Some for some reason it seemed to always have turkeys. I've seen that in Louisiana, I've seen it in Texas places like that. Are there any speaking of that kind of regional peculiarities, Have you guys seen any really stand out differences in behavior or even necessary tactics that you guys have found from one region to another, Like does something stand out like, oh gosh, if you're hunting in the South for turkeys, you really gotta do x or they seem to be so different in why way? Is there anything that stands out from your experiences? The turkey purists will say that like Easterns are the hardest to kill, They're the hardest to talk to you, uh, the hardest to a fool. But I don't think that's the case. South Dakota has Easterns, Riels, and miriam So I've hunted all three. I've killed all three. I think there's way more dependent on like the topography and the amount of pressure that they have, the amount of turkeys around. All those kinds of things I think are much more important than if you are in Ohio or Wyoming, or what subspecies of turkey it is, you know what I think about that. So when people say Eastern birds, we think of the subspecies, but I think we're conflating the subspecies with the region. And I think the reason that people say that so much is because there's just been you know, just like down South in some places, there's been turkey hunting going on a lot longer. So if you go hunt a place that turkeys haven't been hunted, they're stupid, they're just easy, and you get that accumulated pressure, and you get more people who have grown up around turkey hunting and done it more. It's just I think that's what people are generally referring to. But then when you say that, then everybody's like, oh, the Easterns are the hardest to kill, and it's like, well, go hunt some Miriams have been pounded on for six weeks, like they're not easier rios or it doesn't matter. And so I think, at least in my experience, I think it's just pressure, not only like pressure from this year, but the pressure from the last four decades on general population. Yeah, I had I had that point too. I thought I was really excited to say it. Thanks for I had build up in my mind like wait till I say this, these guys are gonna be shocked, And that was exactly my point. No, I I agree. I've seen Eastern birds be easier than could possibly be the subspecies I've seen, like I've had a lot of really dumb Merriam experiences, and I just feel like that's not because that they have white tips, that's because they live in a place where not a lot of people turkcount if you go to the South, I've had more trouble killing birds in the South than anywhere that I've hunted. And I believe it's because there's more people hunting them. And then it's not because those Eastern birds down there are you know, I've seen I've seen Eastern birds in places where they're not hunted do some really stupid things. And I've seen a lot of Miriam's an open country just walking the plagure, like what are you doing? Man, Like why are you going over there? And they just don't. That's where you get like the puffed up room thing. But I think when they're they're stressed and their pressure, they become different like any animal, right, Yeah, you know what the best part about any subspecies that you're gonna hunt is there's Jake's and every one of them. Yeah, so it doesn't matter. That's about like regional things too. And one thing I've noticed in South Dakota there's not a lot of bobcats. They're they're pretty rare. If you like, a lot of guys who hunt their whole lives in that area rarely see one. But the places where guys get trail camp pictures of them. The place where I've seen them in person are the absolute best turkey habitat, and there's the most turkeys. There is the best turkey hunting. And so I don't know how much you can apply that to other areas, but I have found in South Dakota, where there's not very many bobcats that where they are or where guys are aware of them is also just stellar turkey hunting. And I'm guessing it's because bobcats nail turkeys, um eat a lot of them. So there's a reason for that obviously, because eat have sex with Yes, thank you for that. So we all needed that clarifications thinking about the audience here, Yeah, so so, but you're saying one, one might assume that an opposite relationship might be present if if bobcats are nailing by nailing, I say, eating many turkeys, that in that instance you would see lower turkey populations or your typical predator prey up and down, up and down, up and down. I can't stop thinking about it. Can you imagine how violent? And oh my god? Yeah, that's non consensual, you know, so I can see that you're going absolutely so anyways, I think there's still a few bobcats. Like they pick the ideal places where they're gonna go for the hoops. Yeah, that happens to be where there are a bunch of turkeys. So, like I said, I know how much of that you can apply to other areas, but maybe if you are in an area that rarely has bobcats seen, or like your state just has some bobcats. Uh, what I found is that where they like to hang out is also the best yawning. So you should go scout bobcats sign for your turkey spots. Sure if if you have an easier time finding that. I would love to find someone who would just dedicate their next turkey season to the Spencer New Heart approach, like base your entire season around. There are no bobcats on Florida, some of them no turkeys either either. And then maybe if if someone really did spend that much time scouting bobcats, they might actually document the um the rare but majestic scene of a bobcat nailing a turkey, Like, oh, bobcats nailing turkeys? See it all the time you need. As soon as I started hunting bobcats instead of turkey, that's okay. I want to hit a few more like key things, almost rapid fire. Um, you talked about this a little bit already, but the part of the day you talk about, you're gonna hear more gobbling or early probably, But then you mentioned many cases that very killable birds, a late morning bird. You had to pick though, if I forced you to say, you only pick this our window or two hour window, this part of the day. Which part of the day do you pick? Tony tending noon tendon. He keeps taking all my answers, Mark, what do we do? I got start sending then first come on. Yeah, tend to say, yeah, I I like that window, and that's probably when I've killed my most turkeys. But I like being there when they're on the roost yet and just knowing where they're at because I don't have a ton of patients for turkey hunting, and so if I'm out there before sunrise and I know there's a bunch of turkeys in this one draw, that will keep me busy, I'm satisfied hunting and that killing one, whereas if you're other midday you're kind of blind. Um, that's a tougher hunt for me. Yeah, I've definitely experienced what you guys are talking about. It always seems like there's that lots of goblin first thing in the morning, and then they come down and then if they're not coming to you then and if you can't move, like for example, one of the properties I hunt a lot, they roost on the neighbors and they come down unless they come right to me, which happens like one on ten times. Maybe then they're gonna take off the apposle direction and I have to wait like two or three hours, but I know eventually they'll circle back and buy ten thirties something will circle back through. Um. So, so while I know that to be true, and those dudes seem to be killable birds, there's something about that on the roost first thing the more like I love that so much. Like that those that our experience, whether or not you kill something is is my favorite thing about turkey hunting. I feel like there's very few other things in hunting then involved that type of approach though, Like can you imagine if you're hearing white tails and they were just laying in the tree like there they are, right, We're gonna get down, We're gonna get under the tree right near where he is, and when he jumps down, I'll make a noise and they'll come on. We'll nail him, and we'll nail It'll just nail him real good. I just don't think it's that's very unique to turkey hunting. So I love it. I love it for that reason because it is unique. You're not doing that with I think it's like the verse flush. Yeah, that's kind of but that that, like that first gobble, the first gobble of the morning, like that is like a chill inducing moment every time for me. That hasn't gotten old for me yet. You're walking out there and you're just waiting and waiting there. I'd like to make it adendom. I would like to be out in the Do I get to be out in the woods at first light and then only hunt from tender noon? Or do I not? You had to pick? Do I have to go out at ten? Oh? Man? Yeah, if that's the case, I'm going out first light. You are, okay, So it's three to one, you lose, Tony. But I mean, if I could, if I could go, if I could go and like wash the turkeys and then only hunting from tender noon, Like, the most successful time period is gonna be tending if you want to kill one. You know why that window is so good because that's when the bobcats are nappy, they're so tired. There's time off. Man, this is the best turkey on in podcast we've ever done. Um okay, ideal decoy set up? What do you run like? I know there's lots of different variations, but if you had to pick, like the most tried and sure that's going to work the most often? What is it? Ben? Sorry, I gotta give Ben because something really smart And I'll be like that again. It very much depends on like the time of year. But if I'm like early season, it's like the first hit in the ground, I'll probably just go with a jake and a hand and just depending on what the top the topography is or what the field looks like or what the piece of woods looks like all and then like, how do you like to position them? Heads up, heads down, angle towards you like? I want specifics? You want specifics. I've I've done a lot of different positions. Um, I've done almost done it and almost a position you keep your composure, I've done it a lot of positions with a lot of different variations animals. I'm to have a child, it's mind, um, it's I've done. I've done the laying down hen and I had a lot of success with that, with a jake face and like facing off tours where the birds are coming from, kind of that challenge I've had a lot of success with, like I'll do it if I do it, if I have a fan on, I'll face the fan away from where I think the turkeys are gonna come from, because like a lot of times, and then I'll try to make sure as the wind blows, if I got a thing that will move that it'll turn to the way where they can see the profile of the turkey's face. I think it's like subordinate birds will oftentimes turn away from a gobbler and kind of show them their side. So I try to do that sometimes, but it's such so many ways to approach it. But Spencer, Yeah, I think the safest bed it's just a single hen or a hen into jake. But more often than not, I run a single hend that's facing me the way for Tom sees it comes in. Tom wants to be facing the hen and they can't see me drawing my bow or bringing up my shotgun whatever that is, and hens doing what general standing up? Yes, well, and I use a decoy that it's hard to um have variety with. I use the Montana decoy because I like to like throw to my backpack and go in somewhere not be sure where I've set up. So with that it's pretty much always just standing up, um and head up. I think the one that I use the most is like a hen feeding head down and then a jake behind her head up. Um has been but then I've also ran kind of like you said, Ben, with a full struck gobbler. And I like to face the fan tours where I think they're to come from, not because for the reasons you describe, but just because I feel it's more noticeable, Like I just wanted to see that big fan and like catch their attention with it. Um. That's a big part of point though too, that's a big part of it. But any like you're just thinking of I want that goblet or to be thinking that's a subordinate. Yeah, that's interesting because especially if he's with a with with another because I've had a lot of I've had a lot of times, like Spencer said, where I just wish I had a hen out there. I get out there, this bird comes in, he just locks up, like I don't want to know if I'm into that right now. I don't want to fight. And so there's a lot of times I wish I just ran There's I would say that most times I think that my decoys have screwed up my setup is when I wish I just had a hand, I had a strutter out or something like that, or even a jake sometimes did uh did Ben take your ideas? So I I think I think from more from a bull hunting perspective, and I think you can do I think you can get away with different stuff if you're only shotgun hunting. But for me, the early season stuff starts with as many decoys I want to carry, usually that's four, and it will be a quarters strut, jake over, a laid down hand, and then probably a feeding hand and upright, always kind of working in the same direction. You know, you think about turkeys when you watch them, they're kind of always moving in the same direction. You see people put them out face and it just looks unnatural. And so I'm thinking, if I'm in the morning, I'm like, Okay, they're coming out of the woods, probably if I'm in a field edge or something, so they're all going one way, or in the evening I might reverse it. I don't know if that matters, but I use I use David Smith's and throughout the season, I'll pay it down, so I'll eventually go to just the Jake decoy and the lay down hand, hopefully in some place where she's visible, you know. And so so why are you paying it down at that point, because I've had like you're talking about birds flaring or you know where you just wish you had that single hand. I don't know why this is, but I have better luck with more decoys early and throughout the season as I and I end up pairing down, if it's by about May tenth, I'm down to a single hand. I don't like that Jake anymore. They're not fighting as much. There's no pecking order thing going on, and so it just seems I seem to get more effective early with a lot of decoys and later with fewer, and in in certain situations, I don't use a strutter a lot, but if I've been able to scout and I've seen that bird that has a bunch of hands with him and he's a stud. If you can figure out where that bird likes to be and put out a strutter, he'll come. And so that's a situational thing. But that's not something I use season long. That's like April early April, and so it just it just depends. But I like as a bow hunter, I like really realistic decoys. Then get away of changes. If I'm shotgun hunting, I think you should get into like having confidence decoys, like start bringing a dull white tail with you and put up, you know, an m or like a heron or something like that, the water follow approach. I've actually put turkey decoys. I know, what's up with him today? What would you say? A blue heron? Yeah? You here, bends over next to me, texted Ronella, like, man, you screwed up on this. His turkey hunting strategies bizarre. Here's what I do. I get a blue heron once I figure out the bobcat density of a region, a commission of blue hair. Here's what I like to do. I've determined there are a lot of bobcats around, So what the first thing I do is, So, did you have anything else? I was just before Spencer derailed us with heron No, I'll let it go. But yeah, so they're all confidence equation. Now I'm picturing I'm picturing him and like going out through a field of blue heron legs and sticking out of cannot wait. I can't wait for the south to go down. That's gonna be so. So then let's hear what your bizarre calling strategies, Like, what's your calling strategy first in the morning on the roofst how's it transition during that late morning period we talked about? And then do you call in the evenings? Uh? So we're run out of time, so I'm just gonna make it quick. But like I try to not overcall. I think that's a mistake you can make. Um. And that's what I did early in turgey hunting. Um. And as I become a more successful turkey hunter, my calling has gotten less ben Yeah, I mean I would agree with that as far as like times of the day I keep going back to. It's hard to answer that, just just to know, like I try to stay real silent off the roost, like I like to let them zero calling, not zero, but I like to really read them off the roost if they're if they're just lightening up on the roost. A lot of birds will light it up in the rust, but a lot of birds that have a lot of predators around will light it up on the roost and fly down and shut the f up, you know. So, so I like to be quiet for that reason around roost time, let him fly off, kind of read them a little bit, what are they gonna do, and try to be more responsive in that way. During the midday, I'm gonna like let it fly a little bit harder, try to get somebody's attention, and the same thing kind of in the In the evening, I'm gonna hopefully be in a spot where I know they're kind of coming to me, so I'm gonna let them be a little vocal before I get fired up. But I mean, it just really depends, you know. Yeah, I feel like I've always thought cut to your point. I was just like you, Spencer. Early on, I used to call call Call every time the gaveled, I want to call back, and it was so much fun um. But then I realized, yeah, oftentimes the best, the most effective call was sometimes the playing hard to get no call, so you let him when you're there, but then you you pull back and they're thinking no, like they should be coming to me. They should be coming to me, and I should be hearing them. And then that doesn't happen, and the gablers like, what the hell, I gotta go figure out where she want And then sometimes you get the half hour later you come strolling in. So I've always kind of taken the approach that I find him on the roost. I like to try to just at least no make enough noise to know that they know him there, so I want to I'll help you help, and then I get a responsible Okay, he knows him here, Now I'm gonna stop. And then I usually play just like you did, and then the same deal late morning, then try to get something attention. A lot of times I'll get up and just start roaming at that point to trying to strike one up or here, one of the distance and make a move on it. The evenings I struggle with like just because they're not talking by me, at least very little talking. And then to your point, I've always tried to just hopefully kind of know where they're headed, get in between their roam around, make noise hopefully something strikes up. But I don't know, Tony, I feel like you're the liar. Well, tell tell us what we're doing wrong. I'm I'm a caller man. I you know, the thing about the early part of the day is you're you're almost always talking to somebody and so you're you're just gauging the conversation on how he's responding. And it's easy if they're if they're on the roost, they're going to respond a lot, and so it doesn't You could call a lot and get in response, but it's not doing any good. You're you're taking that temperature the rest of the day after you get like that like nine o'clock lull or whatever. I'm a caller man, and part of it is because I'm trying to get hens piste off, and so we're always like, oh, I gotta get that gird, that gobbler to go. But a lot of times, you know, if they're traveling with that little flock of hens or something, that there'll be one dominant hen in there, and I'm trying to like I'm cutting to her hard and going a couple of different calls at a time, usually a mouth call in a like Slate calls a lot, and I can cut, just cut and yelp and yelp and yelp. And this this came from my fall hunting, where the conventional wisdom is, hey, be super quiet, be cautious, and to get him. I kind of think a lot of times like they need some encouragement. And if you're good at it, where they're like, there's something going on I don't want to miss. Or if you can get that Hen where she's like I don't want this this chick talk and smack to me, you can get them to swing closer. And if the Hens comes seventy five yards that Tom might come right in. And so I don't I'm not real shy. Yeah I'm. Everybody says, well, I'm either I'm called shy or I just let it rip. I mean, I'm I've been with a lot of guys that just sit in a blind with him. You're like, let's go, man, let's go. You can't this bird is fired up, like he's coming, Let's give him a show like let's And I've been other guys like shut the funk up there like it not. What I do is I call every five minutes. Yeah, yeah, we get it, like just like all real like all real thork is just an every five minutes. So I it's hard to know kind of what the right thing to do is. But I've I've I've had the most successes personally reading the bird first. Right, So if I'm on a bird and he's on the roosts and he's hammering, and the hens fly down first, and he waits to fly down, and he doesn't immediately strut like he just kind of follows to them into the timber or something like, okay, but if he flies down first and hits the strut, then it's on. So that I'm going, I'm going to work, but it just it starts that way. But in the like, if you're in the middle of the day, you just like be loud, to be proud something like you know you mentioned evening, same thing. What do you got to lose if you if you have birds that aren't vocal, you can you can kill birds in the evening. They're gonna be traveling, that's the thing, so they might not be sounded off, but they got a destination in mind. You can if you if you get after him a lot of times you can get them to go yeah, yeah, did you sit? Yeah? I like to sit on that path right just kind of get know that man, they roosed here a lot, even if they're not being real vocal right now, like I'm gonna get in between where I know I think they're headed and just stay silent, but be a little bit more vocal and just you know, seem desperate, seem you know, it seems like you got something real to say to to the birds. All Right, I gotta leave at the airport. Um so we're gonna wrap this up real fast, but I want to I want to end with two final like rapid fire things. First off, Ben, turkey vestor no turkey best turkey vest Turkey vestor turkey no turkey backpack, Spencer backpack absolutely no turkey vest. It's like the pencil protector of the turkey. Ye Like, look at that, Neube. I love my turkey best. I want to hear. I want to hear everyone's turkey yelp. Mouth turkey yelp right now, and we'll pick who's got the best natural mouth turkey yelp. Ben, what do you go? I feel like my microphone could be faulty. I don't know. Let's see what you got hold on. Now, there's a lot of pressure you guys right on that. Yep, yep, yep. Come on, I'm not gonna let you nothing chide me into this. No, nothing, absolutely not really, Tony. I have twin seven year olds. We turkey call all the time. Okay, that's a harbor seal. Yeah, I don't. I don't like the eye contact with me. I got word real fast, all right, And Spencer, what's your best bob cat call? That was like Mark Wins. That was good Mark two years again. Mark, let's go a little he's looking at me now as he looking like it's weird. You don't need a turkey vest because you don't even need a call. So there you go. That's why you stupped using him. I did. I was not aware that the turkey vest was. I love my turkey vest, dude. I've stand by that sucker and we're proud. Do you do you run the turkey vest with the built in butt head? No? No, okay, okay, I wouldn't be against it, though I carried up with a Fannie pack. Yeah. I could see Ben rocket past at the same time, I would if I could, like a little fanny pack. I keep my little scratch pad in the two night to have turkey tour fannie packs. We're in South Dakota where south code. You're gonna hear this like crinkling, sound like what's been he's eating crackers are get out? He likes to say, I have all those calories during turkey. Yeah, No, I love my best. What I do is I have my best. It's got all my calls, my shells. I just go into my garage, I get it out of the bin and I'll throw it in the truck and I go. We know how they work. And on that note, let's wrap this up. Thanks guys for taking time to talk turkeys. Thanks man, And that's gonna do it for us today. So thanks for listening. I hope you guys enjoyed this one. I had a hoot, We laughed a lot, We covered some really good content. I think when it comes to turkey hunting, and with turkey season opening up for a lot of us anytime now, it's a very exciting time of year. I can't wait for those first gobbles. I actually just the other day saw some turkeys across the road from my house and took my son on the front porch and tried doing some yelping at him and stuff, and that just got my blood pumping. I can't wait take him out in the woods. So hopefully you guys have some great experiences coming up soon. I will stop rambling. I will thank you one more time for being listeners of the Wired Hime podcast, and until next time, stay wired to hunt. H m hm