00:00:00 Speaker 1: Oh hey, everybody, it's episode ninety coming there right at you. You're from Bowsman, Montana. You're doing that voice you do when you're stressed out. Stressed out, man, there's too much going on anyway, it's uh to like yesterday is my birthday. Happy birthday to me, Phil. Yeah, episode ninety. I'm happy for you. I don't feel it. M M. I'll try hiding next time. Anyway, this is a great episode. You're gonna love it. We have Joe J. D Farinado Metiators community manager man behind the emails. UM. On the other end of the the emails that, we have Maggie Smith from our production team. She killed her first year, and Joe shepherd her in that experience and I like to hear first time hunters relate, and she relates a pretty cool moment with her in the bucks. She killed before she pulled the trigger, so look forward to that. And then we have Bill and Andy from the Tailgate podcast. Andy Anderson being one of my favorite photographers of all time. UM a bit of a legend in that space, and those guys have their own podcast talking about marketing in the outdoors. But for me, it's a little bit bigger conversation than just marketing and selling people products. It's about how we market hunting to everyone. So I enjoyed those dudes, and I hope peopill too. But before we get to that, Phil, do you shop on Black Friday? You know what I do? Oh wow, what do you do? What do you do? Do you get up early? You wait in line on iPhone? So two years now I have waited in line at Target after Thanksgiving to get those those stocking stuffer deals. I've got to two children and say you've bought two children at Target. That seems odd. Yeah, well you get him on Black Friday. It's like that seems like child trafficing now, episode ninety enjoy. I guess I grew up on an alder road to the medal. I always did what I told until I found out that my brand new glow the games that in hand from the rich kid's next door, and I grew up fast, Like it's like grew what I mean? They have a thousand things inside of my head I wish I ain't seen, and now I just wanted to a real bad dream of being a lack. I'm coming a part of the scenes, but thank you Jack, Daniels. Hey, everybody welcomed episode number ninety. Is that right, Phil ninety? That's what you told me. I told you that we were talking about a SMR. Maggie, Uh, what is that? A smarts audio sensory Look it up, hold on something something that's great. But like for some people, it's kind of like a I don't know, it's like a stimulant in your brain. Yeah, you know sometimes you hear certain sounds or that like kind of give you goose bumps, a little bit autonomous sensory meridian response, Oh, I got it totally wrong. Has an experience characterized by a static like or tingling sensation on the skin that typically begins on the scalp and moves down two back and neck and upper spone. Is that what we're talking about? Yeah? Is that it? That's you listen to some sort of like Uh, it's kind of like a fetish thing but with with like less sexual. Uh. Sounds pretty sexual to me. A lot of people. There's it's crazy if you there's so many different kinds of people get turned on auditorially. Mm hmm. I'm gonna go by different sounds like a lot of people. Sometimes people whispering or eating or eating a certain food. It's like, oh, it's like this. So what would be to a SMR for hunting, Like a bold action rifle going back, or like an arrow, like dry firing a bow. Dry firing would just make it. What are the sounds that we would do in the outdoors, like just like a bugle from likeway bugle, turkey gobble, that would get me. I would listen to that all bit anything a sm or This is not something I intended to talk about, but I think this is a good subject. So please write in th h it's meeting dot com with your a SMR hunting video ideas. Because Maggie was telling me up in the production space here at Meat Eater. It's been on the board. We've been tossing the idea around. It's been on the board. It's on the ideas board. We'll see if it gets any tracks. If you guys, if enough of you right in about it and just make it a thing, I'll forward them all to Ranella and it could happen. You never really know, it could happen. It started as a joke, but now it's getting legs. So yeah, it's getting it's getting ridiculous. Uh, hey, Joe, Ben, how you doing, Buddy good? A little you know, caught off guard with that previous conversation. But I'll be all right. You were you, you were you fine. You jumped right in. Try to well, welcome we got We got a couple of things to get to and then we're gonna get to the story of Maggie's first dear. Mm hmm, yeah, excited. Yeah, you didn't have I didn't feel like you had enough photos on your phone, like and you were when you were telling the story in the office where you could show photos. You have photos now on your on your phone. Joe has a bunch of photos. That's a hunter. You gotta have photos on your phone to illustrate. Otherwise it didn't happen, or it didn't happen, you gotta have it. And so Joe get did you send him? Sent her some of my favorites. Okay, I haven't been able to go through all of them because I was taking all the photos. I was kind of hogging the story to make it my story. Joe's got a lot, like he's got a lot of issue. We're gonna have to work through some of the shoes with this hunt because I hunted with Joe the day after that you got and he was just he couldn't stop talking about it. Is a little bit I was a little bit concerned about his mental state. He's like, I could have shut the buck twenty times, and I just really, I just I was like, dude, that's like, dude, it's fine, it's okay. That's us hunters shared the experience. And so before we get to that, we got a couple of dilemmas, and then we gotta get to not so a sharp moment. What do we do first? Film dilemmas are not so sharp moment. I want to hear about this. This dilemma you speak, Okay, this is a good dilemma. This this is a real good Joe. You forwarded this to me from the meat eater Inbox. Joe is the keeper of the meat Eater Inbox. If you did not know how many emails you got left to go through there, Joe today, now I only have a Yeah, that's not bad. I got seventy one in the t sc in box. So if you haven't heard back from me, just wait, um, here's this is a guy wrote in what's this guy's name? Why are Why are people's names always hard to pronounce? Phil? That's just you, man, It's not me. This is his name. First name is Darrel trying to pronounce it? Yeah, okay, I'm gonna go with Radish Jack. You try, Maggie rat, I say, Rabbis Jack, you try? What is it? What's that at the very bottom of the email there, Darryll yep uh ra Zach right, Zack. I'm sure Darrell's into this. Sorry, sorry Daryl, that was Daryl Radisac. I'd go with you that right in your face, Phil, he thought I couldn't do it. I feel like we might need to throw some sort of accent in there though. Yeah, something like that. Maybe, Darryl, you were right and tell us where you're at. He's a former wildlife former chief of wildlife for the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency. That's a big deal. Oh yeah, you sent me this, so this guy said to give you an idea of the issue. There's a video that he sent that was filmed of a kid in Tennessee, pretty young looking fellow that shot a buck. On the YouTube's it's a nice buck. It's a really nice buck. Um and he it's at the eight minute mark. There's a point that he asked us to watch. I went and watched it. He starts by saying, to give you an idea. This the issue. This was filmed if you get days ago during the Tennessee muzzler season. There's a legal requirement for all hunters to be wearing blaze orange if you are not hunting your own property. This boy was not. He seems like an amazing kid and giving thanks to God and to the landowner they gave and permission. Here's the problem, what do you do with this dear? I was the chief of Wildlife for the state of Tennessee and my puzzle as to what should be done. One could argue in favor of officers discretion and simply give the kid a warning for not having his arm joy and simply give the kid another chance. However, this being such a big deer, it will probably place well in the record books. But is this dear eligible for the record books since since it is technically harvested illegally, it will receive a lot of uh slack if it If it is allowed. Right now, everyone on the internet forums is keeping quiet because they don't want to be that guy and he goes on, I'm interested to hear what you guys would do. What the hell do you do about that? I think, Man, I don't want to fly off the handlefield, but I think you should probably do. You want to explain what happened at that eight minute marks, said an example. Yeah, I mean we could just watch through the eight minute mark. I mean the kids. Obviously there's different cuts of the different parts of the hunt, and at the eight minute market, the kid is clearly not wearing his orange in the tree stand. Is he wearing orange prior? Is he only at the deer at this point? Oh, so it's clear when he's hunting this deer, he's not wearing his orange. He's wearing an orange hat, but not an orange vest at the point where he shoots this deer. And so there's different other there's other shots of the hunt where he is wearing orange vest, but at the point that they showed before he kills the deer, which he just did, and he starts freaking out. Is that what I sounded like, Joe, No, not at all. You're still so calm. So he shoots the deer. I got my orange right here, don't worry. So he knew he turns, he shoots the deer, turns the camera to himself, and then then and admits it, basically admits the violation right there. Um, it would be if he didn't include that. I mean he obviously edited the video where someone did. They could have not included that and it would have been just fine. Or he could have just scrapped the video, which is if I was in his shoes, That's probably what I would have done as a non hunter. How how often do you think this happens where it's just not it's not documented like this guy documented his hunt, Like probably all the time, right people, Yeah, probably listen. I was in a situation earlier this year where I forgot well, I forgot my range twice this year. I forgot orange on a hunt with Sam Longren when we were bear hunting, and I just didn't. I just put my rifle in the truck. I was like, I'm not, I forgot my range and I walk around with a rifle. So I just put my rifle back in the truck and he put his orangeoy and took his rifle and we went hunt. I mean, we drove an hour and a half and I just didn't hunt that day because I screwed up and didn't have my orange, and so as as someone who feels pretty strongly about those types of things, I would kind of fall on along the lines of like make an example of this kid, um as much as I feel what Darrell is feeling about, you know, it's like just seems like a nice kid. He does after he coves up to the deer, he says a little prairie thinks the landowner. As Darryl said, he seems like a really good, really honest um kid. But man, it's were increasingly violations are showing up on social media in places, and that's something. Get him, Joe. He had his orange with him though. That's the thing where where I'm kind of stuck. It's like he had it with him, he just wasn't wearing it was like Hayne in the tree. It's like the deer came in at a time where like he was just like taking off a jacket and taking off the orange or something, and he That's kind of what it seemed like to me, like he just had would be like a fine or like a like some sort of strict warning, but to take the animal away sounds I mean, that's that's pretty rough. I don't know, but I mean, as as I said, there's like the two sides of it. One side, this is going to become a famous probably famous dear even more famous now that we're talking about it. Um so kind of aside with you, Ben, because also like social media, the more stuff is pervasive on there, then it's like, oh, that's okay, Like that's that's fine. If he just did this in the in the the warden happened to catch him in some other way, you know, maybe right if he is out spot stock hunting bears in Montana and it happen to have his orange in his pack, not on his not on his body, and he was like, do you have orange that's in my pack? Put it on? Yeah, Like I don't want to see that again. It's hard because he already I mean the videos out there. I mean he put it out there, and that's like drawing attention to his I mean here he is. You know, he's losing it for this is so hard. Oh you and if you're got any like I got my horns right here, don't worry. He starts putting on his vest as a hat. I mean, it's it's he knows right, he knows right, andybody still put it on the internet. Right, So there's just like I would lean this way, but I'm I'm almost in this situation like who am I to judge? I being someone who has filmed hunting and being around a bunch of people who make their careers that way, we know, like, we just know that any anything that we do could be the end. There's people out there looking for it and would happen happily applaud while we were taken down for something just like this. So I come from that angle where it's like, if you're gonna do this, you gotta you gotta think everything you post online is a press release, Everything you post online is something very serious and like and and you know, using firearms is like it's not like a you know, that's like a very serious thing and safety should be you know, really really important. Yeah, and so it's just a thing that we have to think about. But when this this, when Darryl says, hell of an ethical dilemma, He's right, And I'm sure wildlife officers and d n R agents and all these folks have to think about this all the time. Um, Yeah, I don't envy the person that has to. I don't know. I don't envy either, I don't know. All right, Well, good luck to the YouTuber, Um Darrel, you do what you gotta do. Manum, I'll bow out of of giving like a direct verdict because who the hell am I? But you don't want to be the judge Jerry and executioner? Then not at all, not at all? All right, Well, we gotta get to a not to a sharp moment, right, Phil. We've had a lot. We've had a lot of poems. We've had a lot of Last time we had boy, we had breasts. We have balls. This one happen and both of them involved very sharp things. Ye play the jingle Phil, not so sharp bowman. All right, this one comes from our new winner. His name is Brandt Pearson. Killed that one, Phil, Awesome way to go, thanks man, Brant put it on the Wall of fame. On the Wall of Fame brand Pearson, He says, about four years ago, I was hunting late afternoon for ELK. I managed to come across a small legal bull and I took off after him. I happened to catch up, but got totally busted as I shot the bull took off running, and I just knew that my shot was a little far back. I found the blood trail and trailed him for about an hour. After dark, I bumped the bull out of his bed and decided to go back out and rally my friends to find him first thing in the morning. If you hunt long enough, Joe, you've had the situation. I'm sure I've had it. Every you hunt long enough, you've had it, he says. In my group of friends, it is customary to all carry small shots of liquor to celebrate any of our successes when we have meat on the ground. We do this no matter if it's morning or night. But we aren't alcoholics, so don't judge. And he says, laugh out loud. Phil's eating fucking yogurt. Don't eat. Don't eat yogurt during not to sharp moments. Phil, it's breakfast, man, unbelievable, Uh, I happened to grab to travel shots of fireball. Who's yeah, my friend Zane and I of course your friend is named Zane. No, no friend named Zane is going to stop you from drinking fire Alcoholicsane brands just putting down fireball in the mountains. My friends is sane, and I down them as we hugged and celebrated. When we finally found the bull back to the shot placement. After we finished the cinnamon whiskey, I began to cut the bull open. Yes, I did nick the gut. At first I was muscling through the stench of rotten belly, but over a few minutes it was getting to me. By now, two other friends had joined as well as my oldest daughter. They were laughing at me as I slowly started the gag Can you give me a gag noise? Like live right now that? Oh good Jesus, don't throw up your yogurt. Apparently my gag reflex started to evoke my friend Zane's gag reflex as well. You know that goes. He and I still had the taste cinnamon whiskey in our mouths. The taste and smell doesn't mix well and with rotten guts. I guess I ran one direction to throw up and he ran the other. This lasted approximately five minutes. As we were doing a vomiting version of dueling banjos. We had that that image is never not funny of people, just a bit of the chain puke reaction like it was a It was a bit of a family guy in the office. It's so hilarious. We had a crowd between he and I that laughed as hard as I've ever seen anyone laugh. Needless, say, my daughter and friends won't ever let me live it down, and I cannot drink cinnamon whiskey anymore yuck. Or my friend, I wouldn't let you live it down either, Brant Brant Pearson play the jingle Phil not so sharp Boeman. So you don't have all right brand? Thanks to work sharp, You're gonna get yourself a work sharp field sharpener for all your you're terrible cinnamon vomit that you spewed upon the landscape. So four years ago doesn't make me want to drink fireball. That's a perfect transition to your hunting. It's such a similar experience. Actually, So, Matt, you're you're now a little bit famous for being on a season, uh, the last season of Meet Eater on Netflix. Just a little bit. I think it's the best episode. I finished the last of all the episodes, uh last night, But I think your episode is the is the best. I truly do believe that. Um, so you could tell us, like, go there watch that Netflix episode do we know what it's called. It's the Turkey Hunting episode Trouble. Go watch that. That's that was your first hunting experience. Correct? Damn to be you have your first hunting experience with Yanni and Steve would be filmed for Netflix and and I don't want to spoil it, but you didn't get a turkey to have that be your like first hunting experience. Is that's not normal? Number one and maybe possibly traumatic at levels. It's a lot, right, people are millions of people are now going to watch you on your first hunting experience. Yeah, that's yeah. I'm a bit of a mind mind fuck. Yeah. Okay, well, now we're gonna get to where it turns about. And that's thanks to one Joe. What's your middle name? Ferinado? What's your middle name? Daniel? Daniel? Like that Joe dan Um Like people call me j d freently never heard it, but I like it. Like, so, Maggie, tell us, tell us about this one. This is last weekend? Correct? Yeah, Well Joe invited me to go out for my first deer hunt. Um. The we were left on Friday night to go to the brakes and it was a muddy, windy yeah, so like the Missouri Brakes being this unforgiving wild landscape that I would say I personally have wanted to go and hunt and kill eMule, deer, elk or what doesn't really matter on for my whole life. If you put like my dream scenario hunts, it would that would be one of them. So you get so lucky as to be accompanied by J. D. Farinato over here up north to the brakes. It was muddy cold, muddy, windy cold. We couldn't get to the spot I wanted to camp. Actually blew a shock out on my truck um and then we ended up setting up camp with a seek outside TP on a very open, exposed like high point where it wasn't muddy, to just listen to the tent, just get beat by the wind all night long. And I was already nervous, and then that happening a little bit of a rough night of sleep for sure, just nerves and then wind just ripping, ripping through the brakes. But yeah, we got up early the next day. And now do you have any expectations of like the kind of deer you wanted to shoot? Nerves about rifle like take there's a lot of I'm sure a lot of people that are either going to take first time hunters or even could be first time hunters assumed themselves listening to this, So it would be nice to get your emotional stage. Yeah, I mean, nerves kind of about all of it was. We went to the shooting range on Tuesday before we left on Friday, and that was the second time I ever shot a rifle, So that was, you know, going out there. Then on Saturday morning, man, you know it was I felt, you know, had practice, but not as trained and confident maybe as I wanted to be um, So that was a nerve wracking thing. And then just everything. I mean, it's so new to me. It's not a camping trip. It's totally different. Your brains just always moving in a million directions when you think, I don't know, I don't know what the scenario is going to be. Oh, Man and Joe, how are you feeling? As the mentor slash guide Slash think it did a good job of hiding I was feeling awful, feeling I was feeling. On the way, I got terribly sick. I had to pull over and vomit um. So it was just turning into a wonderful, wonderful trip so far, and that was I was feeling really bad because like I knew, no one slept in the tent and it was just turning into a less than perfect ex Arians for her first time. Um, when when stuff like that starts to happen, do you think like, oh, let's just turn it around, or you you still try to keep a positive attitude like it's okay, well I'll fight through this and we'll make it great. I try and say super positive. I'm very much look on the bright side type of guy. I'd agree with that for sure, But you got to that's what that's what honey is all about. Your calmness then made all of my nerves a lot more. Hunting is honey is all about overcoming those things, right, because there's everybody. There's a lot of times, I mean, Joe and I have wanted a couple times this year where it's like we should probably go home, it's snowing, it's you know, like you can choose a lot of times. I do choose that because I'd like, like I owe my family that it's not time as possible. But the more successful hunters, the ones like nope, screw it. I'm here to get I'm here to do this, and I'm not leaving. I'm not leaving. Still it's done. I feel like discomfort and hunting kind of go hand in hand and hardships and just weird things happen because you're out in these like unpredictable places with a lot like it's the as Steven would say, the arena of consequence. So everything you do as consequences, yea, and so likely profound. I heard that on the Netflix show Meat Eat or last night watching it, I was having a whiskey immediate or whiskey um anyway. So you guys, uh seeing seeing deer like right off the bat or was there some some dead zone. It's all on an antalope at first. So the place I wanted to get to was was pretty far in down this dirt road that we couldn't get down because it turned into just a mud road. And uh, I was very impressed by Joe's driving, by the way, was outstanding in that mud. I was kind I was really surprised you didn't get stuck, But I was keeping that cool to me, and they're like, yeah, I got this. I had my eyes closed in the back and was holding onto the handle, one hand on the wheel, just like, yeah, no problem, no problem at all. Yeah, he was. He was texting and watching, watching exactly for me a cup. So we ended up having to hike from the main highway back towards where I wanted to be, and uh, I knew it was gonna be probably you know, a couple of miles before we would start seeing anything. And we got in. There's lots of antelope run around on the super open, flat prairie looking stuff. And then we got a couple of miles in and it started turning into this, you know, all that more iconic breaks, bad land style country with lots of cuts and stuff in the terrain, and then we started seeing some deer. It was beautiful out there. That sunrise was you know, the sunrise around the mountains is pretty, but being able to see for forever was like, hey, Phil, can you add in some of those like remy warrants sound effects of like birds and stuff right now? Then? What happened? I feel like I'm there. I think it had like nine thirty, Yeah, nine thirty. I was kind of explaining to Maggie as we kind of as you start to crest Ridges, and stuff. You move very slow and don't just go right up to top and skyline yourself because you'll blow animals out. And just kind of look as you're going up. Move really slow and make sure there's nothing on that uma. Or you do what I do. You do go very slowly right to the crest of a hill and then you pop up real quick. But I peeked my head up over like right as I was explaining that, and I was like, because they're situations like this where there's a giant deer standing on that slope over there. Yeah, and that was that was unexpected. This is a big, big giant, but it's a fat, big fat buck. Like it's a nice, nice mule deer buck. It's nice. He's just stud. He's a stud. How far away is you when you when you you creeped up and you popped up, he was there, popped He was probably six hundred yards. Oh okay, so you got a little bit of you gotta cut the distance. And I listened to a lot of Remmy's podcast podcast on iTunes, keep Going Joe nice plug Ye the best at the in the company. Yeah, So I poked my head up and I could see this year and there's a few doughs and a couple of smaller bucks too, And I told Maggie. I was like, we want to pick up and take a look. And she slowly worked her way up. She's like, I can't see him, can't see him. I gave her my by nose and she started looking and she got really excited, just turned around like what do you think of that? And she's just like, wide eyed, I'll take it, just like I'll take that one, put that one in the bag for him, and that I don't want that one, but I do want that one. So I kinda made a plan. They were working up this straw and uh, I was like, well, just well come back down. We'll move around, so we're completely out of sight. While we're moving the you know, majority of the distance, we should be able to get into a spot where we're probably within three hundred yards without really having to put a lot of effort into the stock. And she was like, okay, let's do it. I'm just gonna follow you exactly, do exactly what you tell me to do. And we did great. We got into that spot and started watching these deer and they were moving towards us, so when we got to them there about two eighty and uh point number one where I could have shot that deer. This is all the whole story. I was like, I could have show him there, but uh, and I thought they were gonna work in perfectly. So I got Maggie all set up ready to go, waiting for that you know, hundred and fifty yard shot, and uh, this buck did exactly what big mule deer bucks like to do, grabbed his dose and switched directions and ran off sound effects. I thought, no, no, he ran away. I was just like, well, that's that's no fun. Why do you do that? Honestly, in that moment, I was a little like heartbroken, heartbroken, but also like, honestly a little sigh of relief because I didn't feel as prepared in that moment because we kind of just saw him. It was so fast we were setting up, and I was like, never been prone prone position before. It was totally brand new. So I mean I was sad, but also like whoa wow. That that moment was probably the funniest moment of the hunt too, because there was a forky standing pretty close to us, well within range, and you were like, shoot him, So I can shoot that looked at and I wasn't really even thinking about telling her to shoot it or anything. And uh, I look over at her just because I wanted to make sure that, you know, if she wasn't gonna be picky on the hunt, like you know, she could shoot this dear first year, it'd be an awesome experience. I look over at do you want to do you want to shoot that dear? And she looks back at me and she's like, not today, maybe maybe tomorrow, like last hour. I was like, alright, alright, I like it. I like it is. There is there an official definition of a forky. I'm guessing it's like a smaller two point two points at four point total two two for us two for US. I ran into a guy that called it a sling shot deer because you could make a slingshot out of either side. I like that definitely could make a sling shot. He's got a couple of sling shots. I'm like, what a couple of sling shots? This deer has sling shots. I'm not gonna hunt it is he is, he fighting back, he deserves to live. It's just imagining like a completely wild deer. But that like has decked out slingshots. He's learned to reason and build things. Another deer jumps up and start shooting with that's I'm glad you guys are into it, because that's what I'm like to have a child's mind. So I'm like, oh, that's hilarious. I think we all have child continue. Uh So, yeah, that deer ran off, and at that point, you know, yea trophy hunter, Yeah, watched him go away. We waited for that for ky to get out of sight so we didn't spook it and run it down into the other ones and push them all out. And we ended up having to go back around to where we initially saw the deer because they moved down this draw and uh I saw this buck bed down like really deep in this coolie and it's like, all right, we'll just we'll go all the way back around and we'll work in on him and we'll see if we could see him. And that took, you know, probably twenty five ish minutes to get back around into a spot where we could really start trying to find him and make a plan to make a stock. And I don't know, I don't really know what was going through Maggie's head here because I was just one track mind, was like this deer needs to come home with us, Like I don't care who shoots it, Like we're not letting this deer get away. And uh so I was just kind of one track mind going and Maggie was doing great following me. I'd look back every once in a while to make sure she was still there. Of course, didn't get consumed by the mud. Yeah, and that pressure though, it's like everything that you know, just like to me, it was just like out like drained out of my head. I was like, I don't don't even know what to do anymore. Like it was like a could not Yeah, I was going through a lot. It's like me and if I'm playing pick up basketball and somebody passes me the ball and I'm wide open, I'm like, I don't know, so I pass it back to this person. They clearly gave it to me for some reason, and I know I'm not going to get it into the hoop no matter what I do. It was like I had a personal little discussion with myself just mind to be quiet, body, just go like keep doing it, like you know, Joe is going to be right there, You're totally fine. He's like, I can shoot it. If you don't want to shoot it, shoot it, okay, if you can't do it, I got I'm right there. It's funny though, how you know stuff and then your brain just all of a sudden is just like freaks out on you. It's like, I think every hunter goes through that. And if you stop going through that, like you start, I get a little bit calm. But then when I mess up, I start that. And I had this meal dere I shot at recently. I missed it a bunch of times, and I'm like, totally calm, not even nervous, like, oh here we go, see you boom? What yeah, anybody that happened boom? But anybody? And then I started freaking out of like, what is happening here? I like, and then you lose it. Um, So you can even a false sense of security in regards of this stuff can be can be a killer totally. And I wanted to didn't. I didn't want to let my nerves show too much. But you did a great job of that. She seemed calm and collected the whole time, which was so you felt good. Flicked off the safety you got a good shot. No rush, no rush. We sat there for like an hour and a half. Yeah, we sat on that deer for a long time. So when we when we finally moved in on him, it took some time to to find him because he had dropped down lower in this coolie and I caught antler tips a couple of times, and he was moving around and from where we were the first time when we sat up, we were about a hundred and twenty yards and I was like, well, let's sneak around here. See we get closer, see if we get a better view of this whole whole coolie here. And She's like, okay, we and we moved in and we get her laid down on this flat spot and I could see the antler tips of this buck and it was eighty four yards away, just passed out, dead asleep. It was like perfect doing that jerk asleep, like falling asleep and jerking up. Honestly, that's what Phil is doing right now. This was that worst moment. Oyah, I'll play the jingle. But yeah, so we get her all set up and the whole time laying there, you know how impatient I am setting on bucks We had a similar situation earlier, and I was grateful for the amount of time knowing that he had bedded down and was like, that's sleeping for me. It was across that process. It in your mind, right, this is gonna happen at some point. Yes, And I couldn't have had it better. Like I didn't feel rushed, like with the turkey, it was like you didn't know he was coming, and so I still felt rushed and didn't feel like prepared. I didn't know where he was and like this was like got my actual eyes on him. Then I got the scope, no one right where he was. That's a big thing with ethics, right we tell people to be thoughtful, or you want to be thoughtful about the situation, but when something comes up in your not expecting, you don't have time to be like listen, is he always thirty? You just don't have that time. So you're as much as you want to be thoughtful and ethical in those situations, like you just gotta do it. Yeah, And Turkey was hunting turkeys was the only thing I knew at this point. So this was totally different, different scene, totally totally different. Now the shot comes, give us, give us the dope. Maggie, Well, I spooked him, made him jerk awake. Yeah. It was the funniest thing because I was moving around trying to find her a position where she could get the cross hairs on the deer while it was laying down, just so she could be comfortable know where she's aiming and everything, and we just couldn't make that happen because the way he was laying we had to wait for him to stand up, and uh, I'm but I'm moving around for the last hour and a half finding different in the past he didn't like. And I finally just go, okay, Maggie, you're gonna have to wait for him to stand up until you could even put the cross hairs on him. And when he stands up, you're just gonna pick that point right behind the shoulder and squeeze the trigger. And she's like, okay, sounds good, and she goes to a just the scarf on her head and just that hand movement, that deer like whips his head over, just like bingo, gotcha. I was like, Okay, that's stupid. I've been crawling around this whole time. But I leaned and I was like he saw you he's getting up. Oh man, he's staring right at us, perfectly broadside. And I said, okay, he's up, and I put my fingers in my ear. I was like, whenever you're ready, and just stare at the deer. I was like, okay, it should happen any time now, any any second. And it just wasn't happening. And I leaned in and I whispered. I was like, can you see him. She's like she's just nodding her. She's like yeah. I was like, okay, whenever you're ready, Yeah, you said, if you feel But I couldn't see even when he stood up their sage obstructing his his body, which was a dilemma in my head for me still, I was like, my note, I want to place my shot correctly, and but also looking at him, it was like we also had a moment. Are you going to call him back? Well, he's in my sid so I can go visit him, as opposed to like not having him. No, I feel like he knew. That was like a I don't know. I couldn't have asked for a better scenario like him looking at me. I don't know. It's like we had a moment like he knew and then I felt comfortable after Joe said that that's really cool. That's there's like things like that is is veteran hunters that you just don't I just don't think of. You don't want to be you're not desensitized to it. But there's there's a functionality, and like, I gotta get that thing. If you're just not you're not thinking in those ways. And so I wanted good, clean, safe shot, so perfect double one shot. Dud didn't take a step right down, right down, which I was so grateful sport, just because I could not see that spot that I wanted to. All Right, So here's a question I have most new hunters I've taken, like, it's the walking up to the animal that is the most emotional. Is that that for you? I've had a couple where like the animals still twitching and it's like shoot, get you to get those kind of moments like where was that? Where did that land? For you? Honestly, the most emotional part was like looking through the scope and having him stare at me. That was that was the most emotional part, I think for me, And that's the part I keep reliving. I relived it quite a bit, but honestly couldn't would have had it any other way because I liked that he knew more so than just like picking him off when he was just hanging out going about his business. He was like, yeah, I don't know if that makes sense, but it was like that that acknowledgement from him was calming. That makes a lot of sense. Have you eaten any of this book yet? Now we're processing him tonight, Set's helping, Joe's helping, so flip flop pleasure, j D Fair and not him could be done well, Like you'll be able to um further process this when you're eating him, right, even when you're like to like go through the transformation process of him being on his feet and being able to look him in the eye and kind of have that moment with him and then like watch the transformation from he's a quarter on on your pack, he's in the truck, now he's a hamburger that you helped grind, and then now you're eating him, Like I'm sure, I'm sure you'll think of those all those moments that's all kind of intertwined and and it'll be powerful. So we'll have to hear back from you when you get to experience that. Well, thank you. I think that's a very important What do you think, Joe, I think that is a very very important part of it. Um. I'm excited to help her process it and take those steps and eat. Well. Congrats Mary Mag's you. You're awesome. Couldn't be more grateful for the community here. Look out for the next episode of Get Toasted. You're editing it right now. She's a creative mind behind it. Ronell is just kind of like Annie and he's also the creative mind behind it. Any magg you're like, who makes Steve look good? What I'm saying good? Think you didn't listen to this? All right? Now we're gonna get to the great and powerful one of the best photographers on planet Earth, Andy Anderson. Enjoy that. Thank you. I guess I grew up on an older road. All right. Hey guys, Hey, how are you Guys have a podcast about marketing and the outdoors and that to me having been a marketer, uh and a content creator and all these things. And you guys also have some great guests, including Simon Roosevelt, Tom mcquain and go on. You can go on from there. That's all you really need to know. You don't need to do it any other guys that you have those two right, you can start with us introduce yourselves for us. Um. Yeah, Bill roding Um. I have a about twenty five years in the advertising industry, working uh to a large extent on the automotive side of things. I've done a lot of work in the general outdoor space like Patagonia on North Face and Nike and all those brands. But you haven't doing it for along while. Still love it. Yeah. My name is Andy Anderson. I'm a photographer, been a photographer about thirty years. Um. I UM started as a fishing photographer many many many moons ago UM and kind of got a little disenfranchise with it visually, so I became a commercial photographer and that's kind of what I do now. And um and I love the outdoors. That's me man, yeah. Man. One of the I was just watching last night knowing that you're coming in the film Andy that it was during my time at Yetti. That was like a Yetti Orvis film. So if you if you want to know about Andy, that's a good thing to go watch. About seven minutes. Good um it talks about your creativity and your storytelling and it for my money. And I've thought this for years. You may be the best, if not one of the best, out there telling stories through images. So we just start like that. And you, um, when you reached out to me about the Tailgate podcast. Um, and you guys, this is pretty new, right you got five your five episodes in two months in wow. All right, Well, welcome to the weird, wild world of podcast podcast talking to it on microphone with their hands. Yeah, where do I look? People like, I don't want to look at and just look at philis fills everybody's comfort blankets. He's got nice hair. Yeah, hopefully it stays that way. Enjoy what you have it. But Phil is really the looker um of the show. One thing I do think when I'm when I'm thinking about like what you guys have chosen to do, you know, being in marketing forever and you have being I really would say more of a storyteller than photographer. I mean, if anybody want to wants to look up Andy's images, I was just looking at him last night and Anderson Photo dot Com. Um, you can kind of see some of what I would just call straight out art and capturing people's emotions in their lives and what they're all about through just just an image. UM. So I definitely want to talk about that before we get to anything else. And how would you describe, like your style of photographer, the way that you approach these gosh um Instagram filters, A lot of Instagram filters, um. Um, Well, I do a lot of reading, you know, I do. I'm very curious, um And I've often said, you know, the young photographers, you know, the curiosity of the engine to your creativity. Right. If you're not curious, you're not gonna be creative no matter what it is, right, And I think that, Um, I try to have a lot of things that influence my you know, my photography. I don't literally look at a bunch of other photographers. I look at a lot of art paintings and stuff because that's really it was a very deliberate attempt to do something with light and you know, color, and to me, that's just it was very intentional when the painter did that, So to me, I understand that. I look at that. So that's a great tool for me. Um. As far as approach, I mean, other than that, UM, I live in a very very small town in Idaho. Um, and I've kind of been left to my own devices, not a lot of other extraneous you know. I think a lot of problems with photographers in big cities, and it's it's inevitable to happen, is that photographers are always looking at together guy down the road and seeing how successful he is, and well, I'm gonna do what he's doing, right, So the work becomes very homogenized, you know, like, for instance, in Austin, you have Dan Winner. Now there's nobody else that does it better than Dan Winner, right, And there are some people that try to you know, copy that. And I think that because they see that he's successful instead of just marching into their own drum. Right. And for me, living in a small town in Idaho, I've had that's that's kind of what I didn't have anything else, right, So I just I I kind of embraced what was around me visually and just kind of went from there. Yeah, that's more like a micro influence rather than exactly see what's all out there, right, So I like that, and it made a lot of mistakes in your in your website, it's ten things about Andy One of them says, did you drink wine with ice? Absolutely? What's up with that? So you we're getting the hard question. Yeah, there we go. So um, about twenty years ago, I was I was the first staff photographer Men's Journal, um, and one of the tasks that I got tasked it was a shooting. It was hemingways anniversary. So I went up to catch him and photographed Jack Hemmyway and we spent two or three days on the river and every night we come back to his house. And he spent a lot of time in Spain, and uh in Idaho. There's a huge basque influence, you know in Idaho. So he started, he said, you want a glass of wine? He started putting ice in and like, what the hell is this ship? Right? And he goes, we'll try it. And it's called a coolie mocho, right, which is coking in wine or sangria. But you know, I've always kind of liked it with ice, um since then, So that's kind of how it started. Well that's a good way, like Hemingway. Yeah, Hemingway told me this. Yeah, I can do it. I mean it's Andy's breakfast. Yeah. Yeah, we should have had wine with ice that's the meat eater branded. Uh, that's a good idea marketing. It doesn't have an off switch. It just it just doesn't stop. It doesn't. He's always thinking, Uh, there's jobs. Um, I think that what another thing that people should know. And when they started look at your photography, they'll know you've traveled around the world, probably twice, and you've met some of the most interesting people. So I can't we can't go any further without getting like a couple of your top stories of your travels and crazy ship that's happened, or I've got I've got a few, but one of the more infamous ones that I've had, I was in Cuba before you were allowed to go to Cuba. Um and uh, I was shooting. I was. I went down there to photograph baseball players. You know, the Cuban baseball players had left after the revolution that came back to Cuba. And while we were there, Um, there was this there was this whole culture of like transvestites that lived down there and they always were on embassy row, right. So I had a fixer that was with me, a Cuban fixer, and we drive around taking pictures at night, like on the Malican and stuff like that. And I saw these two people and they were transvestites, and I said, well, god, that would be interesting just a photograph of me, because I think I just think they're interesting, right, And um, so we got them. Um, we got him in the car. We drove around, and we took them out of their area that they were supposed to be in, because apparently in Cuba, if you don't have papers to be in one area, you're you're you're illegal, right. So, and knowing that this is probably something was going to happen that night, and this was the last night I was going to be in Cuba. Um, I was prepared, so I stuck an other card in my pocket in case I got stopped. So what happened is we get the people out, we're photographing him a shoot about five frames, and the police cars pulls up, you know, and it's like, okay, how am I going to talk myself out of this one? Right? And the guy comes up to me and he goes, what are you guys doing? I said, well, I was just getting ready to take a picture. And while he was coming up, I had thrown the other card in there and he saw it, but he goes, uh, no, you need to come with us to the police station. Yeah, And to my head, in my head, I'm like my wife that I've been married to for forty years, was like, how am I going to explain to this one tourahograph? Right? So um, we get down to the police station. I'm just you know, freaking out, and my producer and my fixer and my system we're kind of like, what's goal is going on here? So we sat there for about an hour and finally the fixer went in and talked to somebody and go, well, they said you can take off. So that was kind of one thing that happened. So nothing had really happened, but I was freaking out. Um. Yeah, there's a there's a singular moment there when you're in the back of the police that like, yeah, poll see you, Yeah, exactly what are gonna do? Um? And I guess, um, Well, let's talk about the one that I had. Another I did a story for um Men's Journal. This is another Men's Journal story, but it was I was shooting the Robbie Gordon um in the bab one thousand. So I was with Red Bull. They had droven us down there are driven us down there to do it, and we so we had to ride with him in a minivans. So a long story short, I get in a helicopter and we're shooting all these you know, Robbie going across the desert in the Baja, and um, so I had I had already shot a bunch of pictures and I had given him to the Red Bull guys and my assistant because we can only put one person in the helicopter, and um and I gave him all this exposed film that I had shot. So, long story short, and landed Baja. They can't fly at dark, so I have to. I hopped in it. I got a taxi, hailed a taxi, and I drove four miles at eight o'clock in the evening back to in Sonata, were the start of the uh the one thousand was. So I get there and show up and get the finish line and nothing's really going on. So I go back to my room. Next morning, I get woke up and he goes. One guy from Red Bull goes, uh, hey, listen, they broke into the minivan and they took all everything. I go, so in my head, I'm just waking up and said well, camera gear, I can replace that. Wait a minute, all the film, right, and the film's way more important than the camera gear. If you're not losing camera gear, you're not working, right, Yeah, just not, you're not working. Um. So I go out to the minivan and it's like, well, nobody broke into it. They left it unlocked. So this is on a Sunday afternoon and in Sonata. So my assistant Matthew Turley uh went in there because he he and he had knows, you know, Spanish fluently, and I said, let's go in and talk to these guys and see if we can figure out what, you know, get our money back or get our stuff back or do something. And they were like, unless you pay us money, we're not gonna help you. So, um, long story short, I never got my amergear and Red Bull had to end up redoing the whole thing, the whole thing off the bottle Like I'm looking down and I was looking last night to it. Just all the portraits that you've taken over the years, like some of the most compelling images that I've ever seen. I remember seeing some of this when I was working at Jim Harrison shot you did of him just head down smoking a cigarette and that's I think the first image I've ever seen of yours. And I said, who the hell did that? And they started rolling the guys that Yet he started rolling out all these other photos and stuff that they used of years in the past, and like that is unbelievable. Can you talk about that photo? That's a great story general, like any portraits, but that's the one man. So that was for Town and Country magazine. That was and the story was about Livingston and all the writers in Livingston. So we had, you know, we had photographed Carl Hyacin uh mcgwain Peacock and uh Harrison or Harrison was the one that we wanted to photograph, but we kept getting told by his fixer in Livingstone, Hey, you can't. You can't photograph him, can't photograph him. And Amanda fourteeny which is married to Walter Kern, she was writing the story, so she was with me and she's a really nice human being. So I started doing some reach and I go, Amanda, what what kind of wine does he like? Because he's a big wine drink, all right, So we went we went to Livingston. We bought the most expensive bottle of wine that he likes, right, So we finally got in conach with it, got in touch with him. The fixer had gone. We called his house and it's a bright sunny day and we go up there and I have a picture I can show you later. I'll send it to you, Ben. But we put Amanda fourteeny and so he's sitting outside in the sun and just bright sunlight. And my son was assisting me at the time, which is now a photographer, Zack Anderson, and I'm looking at this. I go, man, how are we going to pull this off? So I had I have a portable north light studio that I traveled with for portraits. So I told Zachar I says, get the portable studio up. So it's an eight by eight cube. So we set it up. He set it up for me and we go over there and Amanda sitting on his lap and you know, just you know, he loves pretty women, and uh, he starts melting and I give him a bottle. I give him a bottle of wine, and I said, you know, Mr Harrison, would you mind if I take your photograph? She goes, oh, no problem. And that's how I got the photograph. Man and it's like if you look at it, you can almost just see like he has his hands up spoken. Yeah, pull it on a cigarette. Um, I don't think I shot more. I don't think I shot more in ten frames. I mean you just see that dude's life. How old was he at that point? This was two years before he died. Yeah, yeah, and so that Yeah, you just got to his life in that image. Yeah, there's the landscape of his life. Yeah, his skin, his face, Like, I'll send you a print of that. Yeah, please, man, I would happily hang that up. You get eat by ten glossy me too. Who's that guy? That's Mr Magoo. Yeah, here's the pictures of your family and Jim Harrison and the other guy. He requires a bit of an ego. It's a photo of himself to be put behind any photo of Jim mar himself. It's it's weird. Yeah, I feel like I feel like I talked about this theF all day. But I'm just I'm kind of I become a little bit of a a marketing nerd, but just like interested in messaging and interested in the things that we say and why we say them, and being intentional in our speech and things like that, and Um, as you guys both obviously know from your podcast, Um, we got an issue with that. I think when I started this show some ninety episodes ago, we talked about that at length. Hunting I think has pretty bad pr agency as a community. We really just don't have one in the public opinion. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So we've talked about that a lot in a lot of different ways. But when you guys from your perspective, you know, Bill and where you've been, like, how do you think about like our words and images and our stories and collectively what we say have said, what we might I'd say, I know that's a big question. Um, great question. It's a really great question. Well, you know, we you know, taking a step back when we first decided to do this podcast, you know, in and I would spend just a lot of time when you know, we'd other you know, we'd be fishing or hunting, sitting on and then we called the Tailgate podcast because we kind of hang out in your truck afterwards and kind of bullshit about advertising. We you know what, it would always just turn to to what you know, hunting and angling brands are doing. And I think it originally came in, you know, we came into this knowing that we we've always felt that brands could do more and should do more. They always go to this, you know, the the tropes, the cliches and the trends, and you know, I don't want to offend anybody. We're not trying to anybody. We're trying to help. We're not trying to like, you know, call people out. But it's just we just think brands can and can do more, and they can show up in different places, they can try different strategies, talk to new audiences, you know, for growth, and we've certainly uh you know, worked with folks to really pull the numbers to look just so we can back up you know, our claims here. But you know, as you know, while the angland world is growing, the hunting world is shrinking. And if you look at and and we've said this so many times as well, the hunting and angling world is is in and of itself, a very creative industry. It's all about stories, it's about adventure. It's just beautiful places and it's just it's just built for just really great storytelling. But we just keep telling the same stories over and over and over you know, and you know, you go to a fly fishing film festival, it's you know, three of the films. You've been in the industry enough. And I say this humbly. I mean because I've done this myself in the past for a car commercial. But you know, if I hear it's not the destination is the journey or it's not the journey's destination, like I mean, it's yeah, there's something time and again. Yeah, there's some things that I've seen folks get celebrated for in our industry as like innovative thinkers. I'm like, wait a minute, that's not into It's just like a normal thing that a guy might do. And I think that really denotes some of the issues here. It's like, well, you're talking about the meat yep, yep, yep. Decas conservation right absolutely, but how is that how you go? How is that innovative? This is what we do. So that's a good point and and so we we we we've you know, and I'll just say it. You know, a lot of the work and a lot of the money that brands are putting into this right now, they're just advertising the category like they're doing the best thing for their competitors right now by marketing it. So we just really want to inspire brands just to try new things, be more courageous in terms of really having a point of view, uh, defining a really unique voice out there in the marketplace, you know, just really get you know, just better storytelling. Again, we we say that humbly. It's not like we're coming and saying like, you know, thank God, We're here to show you guys how to do it, you know, but but you know, but we we we just get very excited about the potential of what these brands can do. And I think that it's important to say, like I've worked at a pretty big brand myself in the marketing category, I think it's important to like to categorize and really define why brand marketing is important, why brand messaging is important, why it matters to folks like me or to somebody listening. And there's a ton We could go through that for a while. We probably should, but I think it starts by saying that there was a time in hunting. It's not so much now with the prolifaration of social media, but there was a time in hunting where, um, if you wanted to be an influencer. Before that term existed, you had to be funded by brands. You know, we think about, um the stories of folks like Lee and Tiffany Lakowski and some of the bigger names and Hunting that have since risen to some some sort of stardom they were originally sponsored by, Like Hey, you know, True Girl really likes you. Sent Lock really like, sure, we're gonna They're gonna pump you out there and make you part of their marketing. So there's a big part of our industry where UM brands were kind of the way to be known. Like if a brand liked you, all of a sudden, you've had a chance to be known. Um it's not so much that way anymore. I think with just with YouTube and different platforms that are democratic in the way. But there it was a time many decades where that's kind of what it was. Um. There was a few editorial voices out there print magazines and some TV shows. UM. Now there's an abundant sun, which is great, I think, right right, But that's that's where I mean, brands have real power. I worked at one where we spent millions of dollars on films and photography and content um to ingratiate people to the outdoors, and and that was I mean, we still wanted to sound coolers, but you know, I just tended to forget that when I was doing or at least try to block that out so we could create good content. So I think when you guys, when you talk about these things, that's kind of, you know, a nice place to start your your your previous brand. I mean that you just put really meaningful work out there in the world, and it really it was smart. It was yeah, it was smart, it was intentional. I still think that the Father's Day campaign was still one of my favorite pieces of advertising, you know ever, And but yeah, I think we were trying to just bring a lot of the and we've been very long. I feel like we've been very, very lucky and really fortunate to just have touched a lot of really great brands. If it gotten exposure to everything from Super Bowl commercials to documentary films to Hollywood, all the good stuff. And and we just would love to just bottle some of that and bring it back into hanging an angling world because we're just that's what we'd rather be working on anyway. But we're just most passionate about and and uh, you know some brands that I think are doing really really well. So we don't want to come in and say, you know, it's just a waste land of just wrap out there. But there's a lot of polished noise out there. I mean, we we're joking about with this with Tom Rosenbau on our podcast. But everyone has access to really great camera gear and audio equipment and all that kind stuff, which I think is great into your point about kind of democratizing, you know, the ability to go out and make things and put it out there in the world, but without an idea or a lot of point of view, it's just a lot of really polished noise. And I think what that does is that can really model the message. And I think, you know, it's uh, I think it's just you know, I think it's time to just try ourselves to try to just keep pushing what's possible to help. Well, So what are the common like, what are some of the common failures you feel like from from a messaging standpoint that you've seen, because we you know, I think there's a lot of eye roll situations industry, a lot of kill porn I think is Uh, I think we're moved past that, right. I think you know what I love about what's happening now in our sport, in these categories that the young people like yourself are getting involved in it, you know, And and I would I've said this many times. I mean, you guys are much more educated than we were, uh, much more aware where you weren't. Your food wants to come from. So you're messaging, you're looking for you were looking for serious storytelling, you know. I think you've moved past this, this kill porn, and I think that the majority of the people in this country and you're not doing any favors to anybody's false It is a false expectation. And I think that let's move past that. You can still talk about the in between moment in between moments and still get your message apart you know across right, would You're not a great bill? I absolutely agree. And I think that you know an exercise that we were talking about this too, you know, an exercise that you know I did at a past brand. We actually took all the all the work out there in the outdoor category, just like just blanket of the wall and big wall GUYE and and everything was black and white, the solo you know, so journal who you know, kick Nature's ass and it's all about the wind and it's just everyone trying to be really hard. And then you mirror that with or so you look at when how just normal people are posting and talking and sharing their experiences in the outdoors and it's group group settings, it's fun. It is those more in between moments, and when brands really tap into that, it's just people just it punches through that logic gate for them and they just see that they have that irrational kind of loving connection to your brand. Yeah. And you know, I worked on the God Made a Farmer commercial for the Super Bowl, so it was one of the photographers that worked on that. And I guess my point to that they stepped outside the traditional way of telling stories in a way that was really kind of innovative and different. And I think that think about what that could be done into the hunting and fishing world, right, maybe talk about some of Ted true Blood stuff or something like that, you know, I mean, you mean, come on, I mean, this is you know, those are the guys that opened up the doors for us and um, and just think about it in a more creative way. That's you know, that's that's what gets me excited. Yeah, well, I think every we we talked about this in terms of like where it's hunting going and how can we get more people in. I mean there's a lot of like more tangible on the ground ways, but in this kind of storytelling being intangible, every every person with a social media account has a chance. All ten to eleven million hunters out there have a chance to be a storyteller. So if you're thinking, like I don't work in a brand, it doesn't really matter. Just these are personal brands. These are ways to tell stories to people and ways to think about communication because like it or not. Um, we were just talking about earlier in the podcast, a young man who put up a YouTube video where he wasn't wearing orange when he shot a deer, and um, and we're and we had a wildlife officer right in like what should I do? It's a bit of a he looks it seems like a nice kid. Should I write taken or not? I'm like, well, he made a choice, he told the story, he made a choice to put that on YouTube, and he needs to be more thoughtful about what he puts out there and so he should be punished for that opinion. So a lot of this goes back to that, like the accountability, accountability, how you store and just learning it and uh and being a good represent you know what. First of all, don't post crime. There's that. Like the other thing is we talked about this all the time, Bill, I mean, I think if if social media went away, I think you'd lose half to half the people stop maybe they stop hunting, which to me, it's kind of sad for me, right Yeah, Um, I don't like that. We talk about motivations right too in this podcast a lot intrinsic and extrinsic motivations like are you what are you doing it for? Why are you doing there? Why are you posting that? Um? Social media is a big video game. You get points for doing ship people like and not for doing things people don't like, and that is royally screwed up our motivations. Yeah, that's a good point. And so there's it's it's I don't know if we'll ever be able to come back from it, but we got to learn how to manage it. That's a really good mo point. And so if you guys, you know, like when you're talking about storytelling and branding and thinking through these things. That's I think some of the medicine for that what ails us in that way. And I think it's just you know, you having a knowing who you are, having that strong unique point of view out there, and just easing that as a guide for everything. I think that's where a lot of brands, I think, you know, getting probably someons more provocative than I intended to be. A lot of honey and angling brands fall short. Is they think they know who they are, but you know, really oublishing that really unique point of view, establishing a really unique voice, using that as your filtering guy for what we would do, what we would not do. And that's a good exercise to do too. I've done that with a lot of brands, and you just try to find the edges of the company of the brand. But I think that the other thing to to to go back to your question too, is is it's a strategy and insights and you know, again to my research on my point about just you know, advertising the category, but when you there are a lot of sweeping declarations that are used to build brands today, which and that just you know, a it just it creates more noise. It doesn't really have that sort of deeper trigger. And you know, so consumers make that inductive leap in the brain and go, holy shit, I've never thought of It's like, are you stand let me be a better example. You stand up comedy, stand up comedy, sit your observational comedy is it's it's an insight about something. They articulate a really unexpected way of looking at it, and it fundamentally changed the way you look at that thing forever. And that for me is just great branding and that you need to think about what is uh, what is a really great insight about something. The fact that we're busy today, we don't get the hunt as much as we want. That's a sweeping declaration, you know. But the fact that women here know a lot. You know, No, you can't be a mom and be pretty. No you can't, you can't. You know, you can't go out and leave your kid at home. You know, there's you know you can't. You know, there's so many limitations of women. And we I was in a focus group with the woman we were talking about the ship. A cathartic meltdown when we're talking about this because it really meant meant something here. And I said, but you know what if this brand is really just all about yes and really just really hitting you know all the yes yes is in your life, and so I think it's just it's just trying to find that really deeper insight that you know is unique and it's ownable differentiate you. And then you build just a strategy. How do we bring this to life? How do we just you know, uh, you know, tell the story about this in various mediums. Such a rich environment. I mean it's so rich visually in stories. Yeah, the places like this stuff has taken you, it's taken me, taking all of us. It's like, come on, I feel the reason why I wanted to do this the first And I'm like, this thing is awesome. Yeah, what are your people not? Why is it not growing? Like? How could that possibly be? Um, well, it's our messaging. I think it's just the the the elitist sort of vineer to this business or or there's it's there is a learning curve to it. It's not nearly as bad, you know as I think people think, but it's it's I think it's overly aspirational and I saw this a lot in this the general outdoor world, but it's overly aspirational. People can't relate to it. You know. Again, not everyone's able to go on a on a on a month long sheet hunt, you know. And um, not everyone's you know, gonna be able to fish the Madison, you know, and not everyone's double hauling, you know, you know on these big wide western rivers and these beautiful and that's okay, it's okay, and and it's good to to to sell like the dream like that, and it's just beautiful imagery for for marketing, but but it's not reality. You're baking that kind of messaging in every corner of your brand, whether it's on social, whether it's in you know, write down an email, blast, aw you answer the phone. You're just gonna turn people off. And in the younger generation they don't. You know. Again, that probably sound like, uh, you know, everyone's a screwge here, But I think there there are a lot of people that just want to cut to the front of the line. We'll talk about we should talk about influences, ambassadors, but there a lot of people I just want to cut the front of line without really going through that, and so I think as a result, brands, you know, I'm not doing themselves any favor, They're not doing any favors. So I think we're we're we're just you know, I think there's there's there's a tremendous opportunity in this industry to just eight not only just in some corners of the brand, just being more accurate representation what it's like, but also just make sure that you're you're accessible and approachable so people like can see themselves and we can't really get excited about wanting to be part of it. Yeah, so I think a good that's a good point about influencers and ambassadors like those. I ran a whole team of those folks that Eddie and we had to make a lot of those things. And to your point, I think we made like three sheet films, three damn sheet films at a company that sells coolers out of like maybe seven hunting films that we made. You know, we certainly that was certainly a misstep. I mean, we got away with a lot because what you're doing because we could and we're pioneers, and yeah, we had some money. We're doing things because it was different and new, it could be this, it could be nonrepresentative of of really most people, and we it was. It was laser focused on a certain idea anyway. But when you talk about influencers and Bassard's like, this is the thing that we are, we're children with toys. When it comes to like, oh, we oh, I have fun, eighty thousand followers, what do I do? I'd like some money? Money is good. I think I'd like to go hunting. I'd like And then a brand step sends like now I am again to the point I made earlier. Now you're legit because I give you here's this piece of paper or here I'll put your picture on my website. That makes you legit. Now you get to sell my product, which in turn makes you more gives you more credibility within within the industry or in the community. And that's a huge problem. Like that is a big time problem. It's it's it's an egg and the chicken, not the chicken the egg. When it comes to that stuff, um to that, Hell, I don't know. I mean, I think, like I said, I just think we're we're so it's we're so new at this, right, we're so new at being well everybody likes say authentic, but we're so new at knowing shit and and telling that story in the right way. I think it's starting, the boats starting to get right. It's it's it's it's starting to happen. Well, I think what's good is the industry starting to suddenly self police itself. Now there's a you know, I saw this happen in the general outdoor world where there were a lot of these hater blogs and hater fees which were just ushered in an arrow self hate. And you know, I hate to see the hunting world destroy itself from within because that's going out. And I know there's a couple out there right now somebody sent me the other day which are just just depressing. But um, you know, I I think that it well, it's tough. I mean, who who has the right to determine whether or not their point of view is the right way? And I think a lot of you know, some folks will say, well, I have the bigger audience, or I have the most money throw out there, I can outshout everybody, so my point of view is right. And I think a lot of big brands have been doing that, big organizations have done that. But I think if if if, And it's just me personally now tooing in and I you know, I think share this belief, but I think it's okay, just do it how you want to do it. Now there's just some things that are actually just playing stupid and illegal and just dumb. And I'm glad some of these influences out there in jail now for poaching and all that. And I think that's just symptomatic of a you know, you know, this industry have an O show win and it makes people make some really crappy decisions. But um, but I think that, well, the authenticity has got to come back, man, because I feel like that just I agree. It wasn't like it was it ever there though it was there with some people don't think it was. I think there was before social media was there, Definitely, people were just doing their own thing. Yeah, when I hunted with a lot of like I came out, you hunted a long time before ever social media. It was way better, exactly, And I have to worry about that. Ship. Um, I hunted with a lot of out there writers and stuff coming up. That was the game I broke in an American Hunter magazine at the end Ra and then went Pigeons Hunting Magazine, and like, that's a different world than the one I sit in now, or like the marketing brand world. And that world had a lot of a lot of folks who were experts quote unquote. They had columns and these magazines, and I would be privileged enough to be in a field with them. I would say it was the fifty fifty of folks who knew what they were talking about. Um, I probably a falling into that trap myself young in my career, and even now we're like, well, you're you work for a magazine, you have editor at your title. You better write a how to article right now, Like, well I don't know how to do that, We'll look it up. Well that can't be. That can't be the way we disseminate information to each other. And so I think very much in the same way, social media has kind of gone down that track, and it's the reverse. Right, if you look a certain way, if you talk a certain way, if you play the game right, if you play the arcade game right and you get enough points, so true, then you get power. Yeah, well that fucking doesn't mean anything, just just you know, the degree and just but it's hard, but take to take the time to you know, I was just I call it just kind of that that mental homework where just take the time to sit down and think, what do I think about this? What do I think about that? Just have an informed opinion. So at the very least, and we we had a guest on where we didn't necessarily agree with their opinion, but they clearly took the time to think about it, and that's okay. And I'm like, you know what, I don't agree with that, but I at least respect fact you used to taking the time to think about that. And the civil discourse is good for sure. Yeah, yeah, I just just last episode had a a black professor from Vermont who wrote a book called Black Faces and White Places, and like that to me is a very challenging thing. I always like to say, like it's taking my ideas to the gym and making sure I can articulate what I believe. It's someone who has no idea who I am, where I come from, really probably couldn't relate to me in many ways at all, But I gotta find a way to relate to them in some ways. That's an analogous of where we are in a hunting community, we have to find a way and that's why I think you got what you guys say is useful. We have to find a way to relate to people that we've never related to before, or it's been quite a long time since we've related to them. And because the ten is large, right and at the end of the day, there there are a lot of people who are on the sidelines with a crapload of money, who want we're going to be just as passionate as we all were growing up and coming up here. Uh, they just aren't represented, their marginalized. But when they're in, it's just, you know, if there's an economic benefit, and that's a big part of what we're about as well. It's just trying to help these brands. Listen, you don't have to change who you are. You don't have to be all things all people, but just be who you are. But there's ways you can should reach some of these you know, other audiences out there bringing in because it's just you know, it's just gonna you know, for me, the deeper why I got we got involved. For me, it was and I think maybe Ben you can agree with this, but um, the more people we have included that we include into our sport, the more eyes we have on issues that are facing us conservation wise public lands. And that's what really keeps me up at night, like how do we get more people interested in what we do so they become advocates of what we're trying to protect? And I think that's to me the most important thing. Why. I'm just trying to help a category that I really I started as a photographer in and then I really love I love it, you know, and you know, and I just wanted we're just trying to help the place We're not We're not thinking we're experts, but you know, I've been doing this a long time. I've shot outside the category. I've done you know, big campaigns that have nothing to do with fishing and hunting, and we just want to come back to it because we love it so much and just bring some of the sensibilities that we have. But the stential is unbelievable. I mean just in terms from a from a girl standpoint, just from what's possible, just from a communication standpoint, I think I think this industry has barely scratched the service. I mean, there are a few. There are a few ways this industry talks to itself. It's through editorial podcasts, film film festivals and you know, you know, print things, your previous you know employer. Yeah, they broke the ground a little bit. Yeah. No, I was in the rooms. I was like, we should do films or like what do you mean by that? And we stumbled through it, and you on the inside like pan that we waste a lot of money. Um, but we hit on something right, And I think part of that what yet he hit on? And what I just I think about a lot nowadays is that there's like when you have an ethos or when you have something you love, and like I always say, hunting and riches my life, why wouldn't I want to I have this thing that's important to me, Why wouldn't I want to be an evangelist for it? In any way? I poly can like and everybody around me feels the same way. And so we're all like scratching and clawing up a pretty steep slope to try to get it back to where it's relevant again. Um, And there's a lot of ways to do that. But like YETI we just took like this ethos of like I want to be outside this thing is is good for me, And there's all these people out there, yourself included Andy, that like that exemplify that and that are that. And rather than tell people what this can do for you, let's show them what it can do for you through the stories of these people in these places and these these characters that transcend not only what they do or who they are, but they transcend how story is written. And so then you get to get to a point where like, well, wow, okay, Wyman Menser's a photographer in Texas. Amazing, like an amazing man, amazing photographer and one of my favorite humans. I'm amazing photographer, known him for a decade or so now and like an amazing human. Like, so if we can tell his story, his story is kind of a weird one in regards to hunting and trapping because he started out that's living, but the other way right, well, well let's not be scared of that story, because there's something we can learn in that um And if we're trying to come with this from just like we want to say, we're all adventurers, we all climb mountains, and we all we're hard. Yeah, we're hard. Look at me, this is my heavy metal face. So we sell plastic boxes. You know, it's like, what are we really going to do here? Um? And so guys like that. I could go down the list. That was a great love about Edie Yeddie was just a love of of of craft to everything, like every from a catalog to the product, Like every craft are just baked into everything. I think that was another thing, but it was in their DNA. I'm saying they literally like yeah, grabbed it and knew where they needed to go with great direction and you guys just took and wint with it. And and that's where we love to see brands get to that. It's just really understand what is good writing, what is great photography, what is great filmmaking, what is just great um? You know, just great coms plain just be beautiful. It's got to tell something and it's gotta lead to something and any other thing too is I see I see so many dead ends in the marketing in England world in terms of marketing. I'll watch a film, I don't know what I do next, or I don't know what to think about that, or I don't know what to take away and I think if there's a way to kind of connect the dots a little bit more. I think bring people into this kind of world of your brand. I think there's you know a lot of the major marketers in the fortunate one realm or are they're spending a crap lot of money to start doing that and really figure out what is the And I hate to use a buzzword this early in the mornings at my ten o'clock, but you know they're building is just robust ecosystems and they're connecting everything. So when you bring a consumer in, there's always more and they can get more and then go deeper into your story. And I think that hunting angling. You come in and you come out, and I think there's ways you can just pull people in a lot more sure, And I think that at some level like their strategies. Right. So I think the influence thing is really interesting to me. One because people call me that and I think that's stupid, But I don't feel like that at all. I feel like that you're a voice some sage advice and you know that can relate to people other people in the category, right, And so there's but there's this how do we get to that and a lot of the hate that's out there, I think it is pointed towards this idea of what is what is the hurdle? And I agree with a lot of that, Like I'm not going to go out there and have a hate blogs or whatever, but I do agree with like there there should be a threshold. There once was a threshold, and now again we're just in this new place where if you play the arcade game right and you get enough numbers, then you wield some sort of power, regardless of it's that power is authentic to the thing that you do, and a lot of us are getting lost in that, and a lot of brands are driving that, you know, like getting down the wrong path and it turns lots of people off perfectly. You got a brand new Hunters we just had earlier on this podcast. We had um one of our production folks in here who just shot her first year, right, and she is talking about having this moment with this deer and before she killed it and that was like the things she's remembering. And as I'm sitting there thinking about that, I'm like, this is what this is the kind of story that is important, right, And there's a lot of brands are like, oh hot lady, hot chick, make it hotter. Yeah, like it's her third hunt, but she's now an ambassador influencer for our brand, and that happens not just when females, that happens across the board. And so for there to be pushback, yeah, no, I've been I've been oiled up for weeks. I was like, I think I did my first traps on my thirst trap. Yeah, look at I think this body happens up Mountain Fit. I'm not do you guys have any extra Phil has been photographed before wearing like Daisy Duke jeans. That's true. I went out out for Halloween. When you say all out, I mean all yeah. It was you were hanging all out. It was offensive to the people. Uh. But there is there is a version of this where there should be pushed back to that. I totally understand, and people should be gut checking influence right like yep, oh hey wait you said this. Do you know what the you're talking about? And so I think I'm tred dear unless you're wearing orange, yeah that guy, And so I think it brands, you don't try to be hard because it's not about being hard, being authentic and honest. It's like fun. And I don't think you're ever going to be yourself on on social media because you're just curating yourself Like in your life. You don't get to curate the moments. You just go through. When people interact with people, they pick that up right. Social media is a curation however you decide to it. So when you understanding that it's a decision making process, you must treat it like that. You must think, like, what do I want to do? What can I do if I find myself with a bunch of people listening to what I say? Holy sh it, Now, I can't just take a bunch of money, like, well, drop my bow, I'll pick it up. Drop my arrows, drop my uset and arrows. I'm not fit. I'm there's this thing that goes on. Um. And I've got a lot of friends who have lots of followers, and I give them ship all the time and they give me ship all the time, Like we're we're gut checking each other on like you know, um, is this what you really ought to be doing? And I think that's the way to handle it. Agree. In social media, people can strip away the like, you know, holding up spawned out salmon if you've walked across the salmon, walking across the beds, yeah, you know is probably not a good idea. And holding by the gills is probably bad idea. Yeah, and there and there is a thing that happens to that where there's a person who's got the hate blog and they're like, it would be like if a TV critic was only washing the Jersey Shore, Like Okay, I mean I can find TV that sucks, but there's a lot of TV out there that doesn't suck. Um. And so it's up to you know, the social media consumer and in the brand space that the consumer themselves to kind of like up their game. And so everybody that's listening here that buy shit, I think twice before you buy something and somebody tells you to do it, and try to come up with a better way. And I think to transparency, uh you know, if you are if it's a paid post, just be honest about it's okay. People are gonna give you a plenty of you know, plenty of runaway there. But you know, I think there's I think greater transparent. I know you're supposed to put ads on there, but you know, not not a lot of folks do it. Yeah yeah, I mean we've their folks are you know, a larger brand like us that has a lot of like people surrounding it. I mean we get at Tampa in that way, have s is looking looking at it like, hey, what are you doing? What are you doing it? What's the relationship? Um, so you got to know those things. But I but at the end of the day, you know, you try to bring this back to folks that are listening that I've never sat in, like the marketing chair or the storytelling chair. Um, this is about as an important conversation you can have just because of where we are. There's a there's eleven million. I mean, hunting peaked in the eighties. Ever since then, we've been just kind of riding this precipitous slide. And um, well, you know the the dark I like to we're used word coloring of America. It's changed, right, So we're not talking to the people that are not white, right, So we're not we're not we're not including those people into our sport. We should we should be welcoming everybody, right in fact, even taking this long for you know, you know, for unquote you know, women to have more of a voice, you know, and and but that women I think are struggling with that now, like and we as a community or struggling like not tokenizing doing things where it's like not pandering and generalizing motivations, be like she's a woman, she looks cool. Look, it's a woman doing things men do. Like I'm so glad we're past that ship. Yeah, I'm so glad we're pasted. So now we're in this zone where we're trying to like it's all the same, but now we're trying to fight against just because you're a woman you're doing it, or because you're a black guy and you're doing it, do you deserve the attention or are you legit female or a legit guy? Um, And we'll fight through that for a time. We'll get over that, we'll get onto the next problem, but we are definitely there. In the last podcast we talked about that, like what the hell do we do with this? This is a very nervous time because we want females come in, we want people of all shapes and sizes to come in, but we don't we want to like as in brands do this all the time, Like, here's a person who happens to be black and is an angler. Let's do a film about them, and let's not really think it through. Right that happens look beautiful, but there's no story. What's what's the phrase like value broadcasting, whatever it is, it's just like it's just virtua, thank you, virtuasing or just you know, value washing and consumers and will call bullshit. I think that's the thing. Just brands and you get consumers a lot more credit, they will they will call bullshit on you with with that, So just be be be just really intentional and be be honest about a brand called bullshit on themselves everyone. I would call bullshit on myself. For the last podcast where I was congratulating myself for being brave to talk to the black lady, but hunting, I was like, yeah, God, I'm real brave. Yeah yeah, what a courageous individual, right, I am the best. I am virtuous And that to me, like, after I listen back to some of it, I'm Jesus. But if you can laugh at yourself, you're but you're also you know, you're aware of that, you know, and you're honest with yourself. So that's important. Yeah, boy, but it was probably just me filling top because I was like, I don't know what to do with this in my hand. Perfect And I'm so glad our podcasts are perfect at well. I mean you when you've reached perfection, it's good to acknowledge, right exactly, Well, we're not there yet, perfect mind, perfect body, this, this, this, these velvet pipes that I have. Yeah, that's good. I think that all of this, I'm this is the thing that I'm into. I don't like people know me that, Like we were talking about before, when I'm not gonna be like, yeah, the thirty at six versus the three o eight. I I understand what that means. And I know that's like the traditional way that hunters communicate with each other, like it used to be that, you know, back when I broke in, it was kind of like do you know how to people get into cars? Yeah? Man, it's like do you know how to write this? And like no, well then you can't. I'm like, what if I just do When I first broke in, I'm like, well, can I write a profile about this person? Can I go to Louisiana hang out with the Gator hunter? Guys and write a story about them. Like that's kind of where I always came to it. But there was an establishment early on in my career that was like, well, sure, but you also have to do this, you know, you gotta write the bullet profile. And you know, I'm like, yeah, yeah, I know, I want to know that stuff. I'm not saying I'm I'm sure king that kind of like almost responsibility the hunter and know that ship. But but there's other conversations that just traditionally weren't had because there was you up watching you know, DVDs of probably probably tapes of of like fifteen bucks in one hour, and that's what it was, right, Um, I'm like, why can't I have sixteen bucks? What you know, maybe seventeen bucks? Um? And that's what it was to me. It was like, this is this is it. If you want to be a famous hunter man, you gotta or a woman, you have to kill lots of big bucks. And that that was that work works the young. There was a kid growing up I used to watch Bill Dance and the hunting, you know, the fishing hole and all that stuff. So as a kid, you know, I grew up bass fishing and I used to watch Bill dan Show, and I actually, in my head, I used to go, there's got to be a schooa man Danner hooking these fish up to these fishing ruds, because it's never like that for me, Right, it's never like that for me. Oh my dad, we went, we've hunted for three days with zero bucks? Right, yeah? And then you gotta like, then it gets into like what is repeated? Right within those fifteen clips? What is repeated? Okay, the big bucks are repeated, but also the celebrations are repeated also, like and so I started to then, and I've seen this in other young folks. It's like I started to worry about what my celebration might be like someone who was ever filming me, because I saw, you know, a lot of people doing different things, and so all that excuse it a little bit executed it for decades. And now we're I think we've adjusted a little bit to social media a little bit better than when I was first looking at it. Um, I think we're more thoughtful than we were. Six. We're past a really bad chilly phase. I hope, you know, I mean, you know, you look at half the you know older, it's getting better any shows, whereas people whispering in a blind going I'm here with my boot boo, I'm putting on my It was like they were like reading. Okay, that's why I like that goes back to what you guys are doing, Like brands matter, like they've mattered and hunting for all of all of it all the time that those connections have been made, and they have had major influence on who and what is talked about and who is popular before people come commit you agree, and you know, and brand for a lot of folks, advertising is the first entry point for a lot of people into this realm. And I think that brands, you know, do have a responsibility to really be intentional, really be thoughtful about what they're putting out there, because before they start even going to books, before they start going to the films, you know, they see advertising and they have a relate tous I want to be that do that and uh and advertising, you know, and you certainly are are ground zero for that. But you know, advertising says how you should act, how you should think, what you should wear. Do you have a beard, you not have a beard? You know, what kind of brand do you need in your hat? Like people watch that, you know. I remember working on artiquets, nimblebiles, and just we used to watch people read catalogs and watch how deep they would get into. They could tell whether they're canning an engine, they could tell just the different seat, you know, profile they would get into those in the minutia there. And I think a lot of people, you know, you do that with advertising, So I think, you know, just the more intensionally are, the better. We have a lot of diversity here immediately, with the diversity of facial hair. We have a lot of white dudes with different types. One has a mustache. I like that. Two or three of us have beards. It's a diverse place. Sure, Phil's cleanly shaven. Yeah, you guys don't know about somewhere. I didn't know you were aware of the stash. Oh no, I'm sorry, I'm a fan. Kept it skippy skippy micweek stash. Did you just like take hartly like? Is it like? Did you dip it in? No? I think a lot of Ben's listeners would have appreciated that, but I was happy to just let it wash down the singing. Don't don't answer him. You didn't just like burn it and open a worm hole in the spacetime continue, Man, I should have thought this through. Hey see idea. So it's like, just you didn't really tell me. Yeah, we had one guy right in and it called Philip Murderer. It's a pet, right because you know you can't named Gary. Gary was your must It was a terrible mustache. Man, it really was all right. Well, you guys got to get out of here. But but thank you so much for coming in and um check out the Telgate podcast. I'm sure it's thanks for having thanks for having really appreciate it. Yah know, it's a great conversation and having been in the industry, like, it's not just an insular thing we do. If we were work in this place, man, it means a lot of a lot of people, so it's important. All right, thanks, thank I guess I grew up. That's it. That's all another hunting collective coming at you, number ninety. We're into December, the years almost over. The hunting big game hunting year is come and do a close because we are h you'll see this week we're in Nebraska hunting white tails in public land with our muzzleloaders. But after that, Phil, I'm having a kid. I know. I don't think we haven't talked about it, that we talked about that. I'm bringing it up now because we're gonna have to do something during the time where my child is born, where I'm not podcasting Star Wars podcast fired h we gotta do something. This podcast is great, so thanks to Andy and Bill and Joe and Maggie. But we're gonna have to do something. So maybe we can do like the best of UM, or we can just play on a loop Barry Gilbert threatening to leave any Any of those two options would be just fine with me. So if you want to, if you want to write into th HC at the media dot Com with some strategies of what we might do during my time off to rear my child, bring much old into this world, whatever you might, whatever people say, UM, I would appreciate that because I need some ideas. We're gonna have like maybe two or three weeks we're abably off of work and probably don't want to come in here sitting this room with you, Phil, even though I'm starting to become fond of you. Hey, thank you. Yeah, I'm breaking you're breaking in UM anything else you got anything else you want to sing me? Happy birthday or uh not particularly Um, I'm just excited. I'm excited for you. It's your birthday, You're having a kid, You're going home this Uh yeah, man, it's pretty soon. It's gonna be a big deal, visiting family, celebrating the holidays. I'm looking forward to buying lots of consumer products during the month of December, which is what I normally do and what you should be doing according to most things Saying and all that. So anyway, that's it. Buy some consumer products by too long, because I can't go a week without doing run, oh without absolute run bringing out run absolutely wrong, drinking in Heaven, don't sitting at the Boston would stop the row root being the lagging hold on out Barros shoes all down, my one

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