00:00:12 Speaker 1: I guess I grew up on an older role. Hey, everybody welcomed Episode one thirty two. I am Ben O'Brien. I am coming to you from re quarantine. I'm back in quarantine, Phil. How do you feel about that? I mean, there's a lot the office is a lot more quiet, and it's been pleasant. Um, it also smells a lot better. I don't know if that's just a coincidence or I was thinking that you might make that joke that's inappropriate. I'm here all alone and for for clarity. I have had some some symptoms, you know, like a headache, sore throat, and I figured it was better for me to stay home and not be patient zero at the mediator offices than it was to possibly in fact all my good friends over there. So, um, you're welcome, Phil, You're welcome. Thanks. I guess yeah, I'm watching now for you, buddy. Um. We also have Sam Longer and say what's up? Sam? How would he? Or what's up? What up? Well? We have the Great Land Tawny all the way from Sula, Montana and say, hey Land, Hey the Great I think that's a little bit too far, but good to be here. How about the tech savvy, Land Tawny, he's done better than most. Didn't take long. Didn't take long for that comment to come out. I wish I wish you were on the same room. But we'll do it. We'll do our best we can over Squadcast, not a sponsor. Hopefully it lasts for us, but we got a lot of very important things to get to today. We're gonna save all your great emails and you're not so sharp moments for next week because we've got a very important thing. And I will admit before we get started that we haven't talked very much on the show about the Great American Outdoors Act. And that was that is not it was not on purpose. That was not something that we were avoiding. Um, and we're gonna wreck to five the fact that we have not covered that in detail on the show up until now with this conversation with Land and a couple of things you're gonna hear about in a minute, and we're gonna announce a pretty cool contest that we've got going for all of you. But before that, Land, UM, give us an update. What was the weekend? How you feeling? Where's where's your head at? Uh Man? I got out on our public lands and public waters. This weekend, I was on Bureau of Land Management land, I was on Forest Service land, floated the river with my kids. Uh, my daughter's men is freaking awesome. Um And I just wish we would have caught more fish, but got the head straight. I think this weekend or found some solace And now you know, we're back at it, and momentum continues to build in the House for this great American outdoors. Actual I'm spoke about that. How many co sponsors do they have now land, We're a hundred and seventy three, I believe. Wow, that's great to hear. That's good. That is good news, great news. Yeah, we're gonna talk in detail here about you know, why the issue of public lands and waters has become so bipartisan. Um And and I will tell you in preview that Senator Heinrich said directly that this group, our group b h A, has had a huge impact on how the Congress thinks about and acts towards public lands. Something that used to be a very partisan issue is now not so much. But we also are not going to rest in our laurels. We want to kind of get an update on where this legislation is and what we need to do to get it across the finish line. So, Land, can you give us just a quick update on on where we are with the legislation of Sam talked a little bit about its importance. Yeah, so I'll start with the importance. So the Great American Outdoors Acting buying two amazing things. The first is the Land and Water Conservation Fund. It's the number one access tool that we have in this country. It's been around since nineteen sixty four, been used in every single county in America all the way from soccer fields and swimming pools to fishing access sites. Two large kind of purchases or conservation for access. So what we have there is uh dedicated and full funding the Land of Water Contrivation Fund, making do on the promise that we uh that the Congress kind of made the American people back in sixty four some nine hullion dollars a year, which is pretty rad and then we have this backlog of maintenance that's being addressed. So there's about one point uh one point nine billion dollars a year for five years that comes in for the for maintenance. So ultimately it's about nine point five billion years over five or nine point five billion dollars over five years to like help you know, maintain national parks, buer of land management for service US fish and wilife service these lands that really we have not funded correctly and so now they need a big investment, I would say. And so that's the combination of the two bills. UM. Super excited that these two things are came together, came through clean in the Senate, happened pretty quickly. We got a vote of seventy three to twenty five in the Senate, which is just awesome because it just shows the bipartisan fashion. That's overwhelming majority, which is great. And now that we have moved into the House, it is the exactly the same bill, which is absolutely important. If we get amendments added to this UM through this process, I think it probably stinks the whole thing. So we have to keep it clean, which so far is being done. And we've got I think I said a hundred and seventies three co sponsors. I misspoke. I just looked at my notes, and we have another three come in today, so we're a hundred and seventies six, most recent being UH Congressman Upton from Michigan Republican, which is awesome. So the idea is that we're probably gonna have a vote either the week of the twentie of July or the week of so they're gonna be on fourth of July, recess and then they're gonna come back. Got some other business to do. But that is really Mr Poyer, who is the majority leader UH in the House, has said that we will schedule time those last two weeks. So we're looking for, you know, um try to get to the eighty people UM as coach sponsors, which would make that a supermajority, which would make sure that this thing passed. Also, it could be done under suspension, which means that you can suspend the rules and we wouldn't have to worry about amendments and we could go right to the floor. So that is kind of a lot that I just said, But I guess the overall just as we're in a pretty good place right now, and the only reason is because people all across this country have stepped up and now is the time to continue to voice your opinion to make sure that we can get this thing over the finish line. Yeah, I love it, and I and I do know that, you know, there's been a lot of language around this bill landmark legislation once in a lifetime package. There's a lot of things that we've said that I really want people to understand why it is that this is so important, you know why we Ryan Callahan called it once in a lifetime on our website in the piece of Sam Road. I mean, why is it that land that this is once in a lifetime. Why why should we be so heightened around this thing getting through? Yeah, I think I would really look at the land of Water Conservation Fund. There is that you know this, you know, nine million dollars a year, Think about what we can do for accessing, about what we can do for conservation with that money, and to me, you know, that's something that we pay forward for generations to come. It would take an Act of Congress to repeal that, which you know, I think would be very tough to do so. Back in nineteen sixty four when they originally you know, set this up, that was the idea, but Congress has not been fully funding uh Land Water Conservation Fund nine million. It enjoys around four hundred a year on average, and so this will be more than double that and to me, you know, again far into the future, this is paying for you know, opportunities for our kids to get out, for their kids to get out. It's giving us parks and pools within these large scale conservation in places. And I would say that just around here in Missoula, my hometown, like I can't throw a rock very far without hitting a land of water Conservation Fund project. And you know the idea of what that can do for every country in America, that's just like it's a historic and what they did and stix before with a story, but they should have made it dedicated funding and they didn't do that. And so that's what we're doing, um, you know, as of people right now. And I think you know that by itself is absolutely historic. Yeah, and Sam, you've been covering this for mediator dot com. You've written I opered the three or four articles above this as this kind of was first introduced and then it's kind of made its way through Congress and has landed where it does today. Like where what's your perspective and where we are right now and what we need to do because I know we've talked about internally in the office that we really need to keep the peditive metal right now with this. Yeah, my my perspective been is just you know, overwhelming enthusiasm. You know, I worked under Land for five years and got to listen to him talk about you know, fully funding and reauthorizing LBCF. I got to hear him talk about that on a on a daily basis. So frankly, I'm I'm I'm stoked for his staff to uh, you know, give them something, you know, give him a new drum to beat. Um. But jokes aside like this is, this is a huge deal, and um, you know I I as as many of us experience every weekend like we we just you know, even here in Montana, we don't have enough trailheads and fishing access points. There's so many places, you know what. We've got salmon fly hatches going on right now. And I was just warning one of our co workers about going to a particular river that he'd be able to walk downstream from boat to boat if he wanted to, So, you know, more places for people to recreate. I think we're going to see a growth in outdoor recreation and engagement, you know, following this pandemic. Um and that this does exactly that it. It provides places for for people to go, more boat launches, more trailheads, more parks, and you know, and that helps us. That helps a social distance as well, because so many of those places get really packed up. Um, and you know, land has been mentioned. I've been covering this for for our website for quite a while, but that means I've also had UM, I've also had a lot of the questions directed towards me and and and many of them are very good, and and I I sometimes struggle to to know how to respond. And um, you know one that I think is particularly worth noting, and I'd love to hear your take on is is two. In some people's mind, the two elements of this act kind of exists in opposition to one another. On one hand, we're we're saying we're gonna be getting all this money to buy more public lands. That's what the LWCF does, by and large. It provides for land acquisition. But you know, the other element acknowledges the fact that we are have not been financially capable of properly man managing all the public lands that we already have. And you know, there there's a vocal insurrection in the in the House, there's some twenty representatives who are dead set against this, who are are are making that point very loudly right now, And I just love to hear your perspective on on on on whether or not there even is any conflict between those two elements of this act or or how how do you respond when when people ask you that question. Yeah, that's a great sound. And you know, I think what's awesome is that people are diving deep into this, you know, I think this is uh, the education around land a lot of controvertion fund has been absolutely just amazing over the last I'd stay five six years, and you know, people on the ground know more and more about every day. I guess I'd answer it probably in two ways. The first one is is that you know you've already referenced, you know, like even Montana doesn't have enough access. Um, there are folks all across this country, private landowners that are ready to do deals. They want to make sure if their land stays the way it is and then provide access and perpetuity of the people of America. And this bill really provides certainty for that. And you know, without that certainty, maybe that gets subdivided, maybe that gets told with somebody's not gonna open it up access wise, And so these opportunities are really on the table now and we need to take advantage of those because in the future, who knows that they will be there. So that's the first place I would say, And those those primarily conservation easements that you're you're referencing there absolutely and like you know, and I think that, um, you know, when you look at when you look at like maybe some of these larger purchases, uh, you know, again like without this, without this opportunity again, who gets those? And you know here in Montana very famously, you know, the Wilkes brothers are now the largest landowner of Montana and they have more money than you know, anybody in America almost, and so they're just buying anything that they can. And so like that gets privatized, the animals get privatized. You and I don't have access to that, the public doesn't have access to that, and we all lose. And so to me, again, this is about taking advantage of opportunities. That's the first way I would say it, um. And the pressures are probably even higher now than ever have been. The second piece is this this argument that gets brought up time and time again, and whether that's you know, by Congressman or you know, Mr Mr Lee in the Senate is famous for doing this, saying, hey, we don't have enough money to take care of what we have already. And to me, you know, part of that answer is correct. But the reason that answer is correct is because Congress has been systematically defunding our public lands. And so right now, like think about think about like that that Toyota you bought, Sam, and every year you gotta be doing an oil change, you gotta be getting the tune ups and like that, you know, a certain amount of miles, gotta do something. You're investing in your truck all the time. We have not done a good job of doing those regular kind of oil changes and and tune ups that we need to. And so now we have to invest in this nine point five billion dollars. It's like buying a brand new engine. And so that is where we've kind of been, like, that's where we've gotten to this point where we have to invest that much money. But going forward, hopefully the momentum that we have from I guess the education and the engagement of the grassroots, then we will help Congress fund our public lands in a better way. You know, when you starve the body and of course gets sick and then you want to throw that baby out. And to me, that's been systematic by Congress and by people that do not like public lands, that want to privatize them for them for themselves. So when people say that we don't we can't take care of what we already have, I call hogwash on that and and really say we haven't invested like we should because of you know, public lands. You know, whether that's the eighties seven billion dollars that the outdoor economy provides, whether that's where Land and Water Conservation Fund in particular, that's like a three to one match, like this is an investment that goes forward that can help us in our economy and the health of our people, like in perpetuity. And so to me, that argument is pretty hollow. That's a that's a that's a great response. I appreciate that, and and thank you for putting it in terms of my truck. Um, you know, I only got that thing because I thought yours was so cool. Yeah, I know that that really that really makes it resonate and UM. That's something I've been trying to translate efficiently to our audience who's been asking questions and you know and continuing with those uh, with those tricky questions. UM. You know many people have also asked, like, you know, yes, this is this is great. We we need this funding. We need we need to uh fix potholes and national parks and restrooms and national national forests. UM. But you know, some people are also concerned about the source of that funding. You know, it's coming from almost directly from the destruction of of of certain public lands. UM. And And how how comfortable are you with with with the fact that that this is all funded through oil and natural gas UM extraction on public lands. And do you do you think that this this bill promotes those efforts or will in any way expand them. UM. I've heard a lot of people, uh express a lot of concern that this UM promotes a future that is that is further tied to or oil and natural gas. That's a great question. So you know, I think that let's go back to the original promise in nineteen sixty four. So as offshore you know, development, especially in the Gulf of Mexico is starting to be a much more robust you know, Congress got together and they said, you know, we're taken away from one resource, let's give back to another as we're doing that. And I think, you know, again, when you look at the history of the Land and Water Conservation Fund, that has happened, and so the idea that then that has spurred more development. You know, I I think that development is already happening, and we should do our best to mitigate kind of the imput impacts from that development and then again pay it forward. You know. I think that's what the original promise was in sixty four, and I think that's what's being talked about today is really trying to pay it forward so that development is going to happen. Um. You know, this legislation, I don't think like increases those efforts. Uh. And what we're trying to do is make sure that we get what's you know what I think it's promised to the American people. Yeah, that's great. Thank you for answering those And I think it's important that we all continue to, uh, you know, have clear eyes with this as we move forward, UM, and and acknowledge these concerns that people have because you know, some very uh, some very prominent congressmen or sharing some of these concerns, and I think the more we can do as a conservation community to allay those, um, we'll just make this easier for everyone to swallow and be a more unifying piece of legislation. Yeah, I guess Sam. The only other thing I would say is like, pay attention to who these congressmen are, because these congressmen that are speaking up are also the same congressmen that you know think that public lands should be privatized. And so you know, this is like some of the arguments that are coming up with while I think have some merrit and we need to discuss them, like they're prophetizing those because they ultimately don't like public LANs. They ultimately think that this awesome legacy that we enjoy here in the United States of America and that we're very close to the fourth of July and you know, celebrating our independence and there's nothing more American. I don't think in our public lands. They ultimately do not believe in our public lands. And and to me, you know that showed in that Senate vote. You know, when you have like people like Senator Cruz, Senator Mike Lee, Senator Ran Paul, like those folks fundamentally talked about all the time they're dislike for public lands, and so always like like, when you hear those messages, remember who they're coming from. Absolutely, And I'm highly aware of who is who is standing as opposition to this. But you know, I still receive of these questions on nearly a daily basis. So I'm trying to figure out good ways to respond to people who are generally inclined to support public lands. And I think most, you know, the vast majority of hunters and anglers in this country are but you know, we get a lot of cross wise messaging and all facts of all the factors of life anymore I appreciate for sure, And I mean this, this is one thing that you know we should cover here that you know that's that's key, is that this this legislation establishes the National Parks and public Lands Legacy fund um. And for anybody, you know, we live at the you know, just north of one of the most beautiful national parks in this country, probably the most beautiful, the Jewel of the West, which is Yelso National Park, and this fund would direct nine point five million dollars and non taxpayer moneies. UM, I believe there's a mineral seat. Mineral seats, correct me if I'm wrong. And I also believe that's over. Like there's over five years that this is gonna happen, and it's gonna address repairs to these national parks other public lands. As we've said, so, I mean, there's just things about this that to me, UM, if we really love and care about these places that we should support, there there's never gonna be Uh, there's never gonna be no opposition to this. But as you'll hear in a moment from Senator Heinrich and and Representative Stivers from Ohio, this is becoming a thing where UM, that pushback is is in its own echo chamber. UM that that the Congress, the Senate that we've already seen with the vote, the Senate has has been emboldened to make this a bi camera by partisan issue, which is is the thing that anybody feel will know because of my politics and because of what I talked about, than anything that's bipartisan. I love to dance around um and and shout from the rooftop. So that's that's part of part of why I wanted to do this entire episode and why I wanted to you know, talk about this issue. And we have you mentioned this land, um, and we should we should return to it really quickly. The House will put this up for vote and then it will go to the President, then it will be signed to the law. We think the House vote. Are you thinking the end of July roughly is what we're thinking right now. Yeah, we're thinking like that week of the twenty of the week, you know. And the President has come out like he came out of there in a spring right before COVID hit, and if COVID hadn't happened, I think this thing will be done right now. Um. But he came out and said, you know, get get full and dedicated funding for the land of Water Controveration Fund on my desk, and I will sign it. And so all indications are that he will will sign it. And uh, again we can party like it's yeah, and and we want to we want this to happen before the election, well well before the election, um, because we don't want we don't want this issue to lag into that quagmire. And the fact that our president is behind it and will sign it. We want that sucker on his desk as soon as possible. So for those of you that have not been active in this yet, have not made any phone calls, have not um talked to your representations wherever you're from, land, can you kind of give people what they can do right now to help us get this thing across um, to really pressure the House to get it, get it through and get that majority totally. So I think, um, there's a couple of things people can do. I think the most important thing you can do is make a phone call. And you know, I think some white people are intimidated by that, but really, you call this switchboard which is two O two two two four three one two one, You give them your zip code and then they connect you to that office and it's very simply. You can ask them to become a co sponsor of the Great American Outdoors Act and make sure it gets past with no amendments. And that's they're really gonna talk to a stafford that's keeping score. And you know, we've been talking a lot to congressional members and you know they are keeping scorer. They call it a hot list, and they get that list at the end of the day every day and they're getting their phones blown up right now and that needs to continue. So again that number is two O two two to four three one two one, and telephone or telephone calls definitely I think rate higher than emails. But another way to get this done is through email. And so through email you can. We have a take action center at back on Trailers and anglers. Just go to our website which is Backcountry Hunters dot org. There's a take action center there. We make it very easy for you. Um, you can tailor make it if you want, but there's a kind of a ready cookie cutter piece in there that you can send. Um, do that, and then I know that you've got this new contest that you talked about, and I mean I think I think that awareness around land a load of conservation fund is just vitally important right now as well. Yeah, I mean this is just you know, this is this is uh, this is basically a telephone That's what we're putting on right now. Absolutely on the damn phones and call your people. I wanted to do a little something for all of you that are listening. And because Phil will know that when when I asked people to do something for a prize, they get on it. Hundreds of you. They thousands of you drew pictures of Phil based on his voice, and they're there. There better be more phone calls to senators and representatives right now than there were drawings of me. There was a lot of drawings of you, and they were really good. Yeah. One of the things that I was so happy about when I got back to the office was that I could once again see the pictures of Phil because they are still still and they are still now pacing over your death right still there. I was just marveling at them a moment ago. That's great work. And so now we have built We've build up this confidence in our audience. We you got you over a quarantine before my re quarantine. The current you guys have have drawn hand turkeys on my desk is an actuable hand turkey that one of our great listeners made, alc Aycock, made a hand turkey out of fly fishing material and put it in like a custom would frame. And so I am definitely going to create a thc Hall of Fame at the office and annoy all my coworkers with adding to it, making it as gaudy as possible and so um so to in turn, we want to announce the Great American LWCF Challenge. And this is because I know you all are creative sons of bitches and you will absolutely do whatever we ask to win prizes. That's part of it. But the other part of it is I know you're conservationist and you care about this message, and if you haven't acted yet and for some reason you don't have a phone, you can do this and maybe win something. So I'm phil, are you tracking me so far? I need to explain what exactly we're gonna do. Yeah, I mean, I may. I think I see where you're going. But continue, Are you inspired yet? Have I said? Have we said enough? Is Land said off? As Sam said, get you to call absolutely. I mean as if hanging and around Ryan Callahan didn't do it, this definitely did. Yeah. Well, if um, can you start growing your mustache back and maybe only shave it off when this passes the bill pass? Well we'll talk about that after the show, but I'm more than happy to call my rep. Alright, alright, Well that's enough for me. All right, Well, if you guys, if anybody on the phone. If you ever been to LWCF coalition website. I was surfing around there the other day and they have a map of everywhere that the LWCF had funds have gone, um at least all that they have tracked. Is there any place else land that you know that people can find all of the sites that have received LWC in recent years. I think that is that's the most comprehensive and and so I would send people there. Some states have done a good job on their own, like state agency websites doing this, but I would go to that that LWCF dot org um and that their coalition page is just absolutely awesome and it's pretty user friendly. Yeah, so if you if you go to their website, they have a map of l w CF there, So you can just search LBC Coalition map of l a w CF. It will pull up an interactive map. You can go to your state. You can find the sites where um LBC of dollars have gone. Now, this is important because it's the big key part of the contest. You gotta do some investigative work out there where it's not going to give you stuff for nothing. You gotta find places in your state, your region, your local area where lbacy F has made an impact. And then what you're gonna do. The first thing you're gonna do is is traveled by bus, by car, by hot air balloon. I don't really care how you get there. You go to that one of these sites. It could be a pool, a park, a wildlife refuge, a piece of BLM ground. It doesn't matter where you go. Just go there. And then when you get there, you're gonna The first thing you're gonna do is have a good time. You're gonna recreate. You're gonna swim, You're gonna fish, You're gonna hike, whatever you do, have a good time. And then at some point during your good time, you're gonna make some art. You're gonna make a music video, a creative image. You're gonna do some sort of dance. You're gonna write a poem and recite it to us. You're gonna create some sort of media that makes me and Phil and Sam and land I think you're one of the most awesome conservationists ever. Obto Leopold has nothing on you. We're gonna vote on the best piece of art created on an LVCF funded site. Does that all make sense, Phil and track anybody. I got you. I think it's a great idea. That's all I need to hear. Land, what do you feel about this idea? Well, I think it's awesome and I'm thinking of my own head like I'm ineligible, Like I I think I want to go do this with my kids. Yes, I want you to do it, uh, Senator Martin Heinrich. I think promised that he would do it. If he didn't, I'm promising for him right now. I know he's you know, he's a busy man. But that's all you really need to do. Have fun with it. The most creative entry will win be a vote on this podcast. This is not a social media contest, but I'm sure if you create some awesome art you'll want to put it on social media. If you do, tag me, tag Lanton, tag b h J. Let make sure we see this um. But the only way to win is to send your submission to t A C at the Mediator dot com. As always, this is a podcast contest. Because you listen, you have a chance to win the th HC at the Mediator dot com. You have two weeks to do this. You have two weeks to do this so on episode one thirty four, we will announce the winner and hopefully all of you can join in on something that's fun. Um. Actually, I just made a mistake, Phil, it made a mistake. There's multiple winners, Man, we have three different whoa I know, it's amazing. We have three different eyes to give out here. For the for the most creative entry, we got a first like kit pair of pants based on their out of war piece. Well, i'll work with you select it. I have my suggestions, but we'll work with you. We have a Nemo one person, Spike Pant the second prize, second most creative, and for the third most creative, Vortex Diamondback h D fifteen my fifties six binos. So we got some work to do. Lands on him? Did I love? I love that package set up, and I was gonna do it anyways. But now I'm gonna get after it with my kids. Yeah, you get after it. I'm gonna get after it. I'm gonna make Phil go with me somewhere, and we're gonna make the most awkward social distance music video. Maybe maybe a dancer team. What do you feel like? What do you feel about it? Can't wait? Man? Looking forward? To it, Sam, you got any idea for what me and Phil could do? Oh? I mean I'm loving music video hip hop dance number that would really do it. And and you know, just a note to the to the audience. I just I'm just personally very aware of how much your your your drawings of Phil warmed Ben's heart previously. So I don't want to interfere with anybody's artistic process here, But if you were thinking about doing a visual art piece including um, your uh personal you know, mental image of Phil, and how much you would be enjoying being in that public place with you, I mean, that's just you know, one step closer to Ben's heart than than anything else I can think of. Um, but that that's just my two cents music video for you guys. To be certain, Ben, how about we haven't we? Uh? How about we recreate the dirty dancing dance on like a lake side somewhere. Are you holding? Are you holding me up? Yeah? Oh yeah, for sure? He has the swazzy look, Ben, come on, just get a haircut nice. And the first thing to flash through my head is like Ben couldn't hold up Phil, but can Phil hold up? Then? Of course probably I'm looking at those guns right now. It's pretty nice. All right. Well, I I'm certain I don't have COVID, but I'm gonna get tested. So Phil, as soon as i'm clear, I'm coming, I'm coming for you, and we're gonna do something extremely creative. Okay, good luck, Yes, looking forward to it. Thanks. Bill just sent me r I P about my COVID test. Alright, but anyway, you have to again, if you just rewind, if you want to hear this all again. This is important to me. Again, it's important to all of us that we raise awareness for this really cool um piece of legislation. Not really cool, it's monumental, it's landmark. It's something that we might not see again in this generation or maybe even the next. So um, we're gonna have fun with this. We're gonna be as silly and it's as crazy as we need to be. But it stands to reason that the more we talk about this, the more that we pushed this wherever we can, the better chances we have of being able to look back a year from now and saying, hey, we helped make this happen. Um. And I can tell you from what you're about to hear from our congressman, this is making a difference, which is warms my heart. Anything else Lantani, I guess I just fall up what you just said. I mean, like, you know, a lot of people don't think their voice counts in this country anymore, and it absolutely doesn't if you don't use it. And this is an example of your voice actually accounting, like thinking about all the things that are going on this country right now, and the Senate passes this and now we're moving on to the House like this is vitally important because you all have made a difference and like to me, Um, you know where we got the finish line in sight and stid of put the pedal down and so we can celebrate again like it's I love it. Well to help us at on here, I wanted to make sure that we had a bipartisan show of support for this legislation, and we wanted to highlight some individuals that are absolutely helping us, UM on the floor get this done. We've already mentioned the Senator Martin Heinrich, the Great State of New Mexico, a friend of b h A, a friend of meat eaters and all around legitimate outdoorsman hunter angler. Everything I chatted with him and then Republicans Steve Stivers from the fifteenth District in Ohio. UM, And again we wanted to make sure we talked to both sides of the aisle about why this was important. And as you listen to these two interviews, UM, remember that these two and the time has Land said that's divided at the time, it's very partisan. Here are two individuals that are united around around this legislation, around what it means. So I think it's a it's really good to listen closely to what they have to say and how they how kind of mirrors each other. And so rather than just called the congressional switchboard, we called actual congressman. And so now listen to those folks. First center Heinrich and the AFTERHAMI year Congressman Steve Stivers. Enjoy cenator Heinrich, How are you, sir? I'm doing well. Light at the end of the tunnel here. How are things in New Mexico? Thanks in New Mexico are great. Unfortunately I am sitting at my desk in Washington at the moment, but I'm looking forward to getting back for a couple of weeks. Over at the fourth July and U hoping to see the house move with Great American Outdoors in that work session, So I plan on heading over to the house floor exercising my old house privileges. Well, I'd love to talk to you about hunting and fishing. Um, we get a lot of trade, a lot of stories, and I know Steve Ronella was just down in New Mexico and we were talking at ORCS, but we do need to to get serious and talk about the Great American Outdoors Act. And I think the the easiest question, and I think I know what your answer is going to be, but I want everybody to hear it, is why do you believe in this legislation and and what do you think it's going to do for Americans that love to recreate outside? Honestly, I think I think this is the biggest UH conservation accomplishment. And it's obviously not thinks not dry until it's done, it's not done. But of anything I've worked on in my entire career, much of it's been incremental, or it's been very specific to a certain area in a certain state or a certain national forest. And this is a systemic effort to improve not only our ability to protect landscapes UM, but also to do the kind of access programs that you can really only fund through land and water conservation funds. So this is the biggest systemic conservation um effort that I've been a part of, and it's frankly, I think it's of the scale of that we haven't seen for many, many decades. Did you feel you know, the Land Word Conservation Fund is kind of this at the center of this legislation in many ways, as with the maintenance backlog addressing that. Can you just talk about LWCF. I know people that listen to this show and that that are members of backcount owners and anglers will have a good idea of it, but I'd love to just kind of hear your explanation of of LWCF. Yes, So LWCF Land and Water Conservation Fund was set up in the early sixties, around when offshore oil and gas development was first really getting started, and the idea was very simple. It was to say, this is a non renewable resource and we're taking something, so we should dedicate part of that to giving back to the outdoors and to spend those dollars in ways that create public lands and public waters and access to the places in the outdoors that we that we love. And um, it was an incredible idea. It's been an incredibly successful program. Um. It ranges from buying properties that become national parks or uh new wildlife refuges to buying soccer fields in small towns. Yeah, specifically in your state, New Mexico. What what have you seen the lp c F two and what do you hope that it might you know, might do in the future when it gets fully funded. Boy, I'll give you a couple of incredible examples in New Mexico. And uh, the one I always think back to is the Bias Caldera because Bias Caldera is a big volcanic caldera in the northern part of the state. It is um A lot of people call it New Mexico's Yellowstone because it's the same kind of collapsed super volcano. And then you have these high elevation rolling meadows surrounded by by volcanic peaks, and it's home to one of the biggest elkirds in the state. It's home to hot springs as well as cold water fisheries. It's just a really special place. And as early as the nineteen teens. There were New Mexico senators who wanted to make it a national park um. I was part of a group that actually passed legislation to make it a National Park Service preserve to preserve the hunting and fishing as well as to have the um you know, the marquee of having the Park Service manage it never would have been possible without the Land and Water Conservation Fund. And then we have examples like this Abinosa Wilderness that were literally landlocked. Uh. You know, a similar situation of what you might think of with the crazy mountains in Montana, no real public access, not even a walk in eastment from thirty years ago. And we were able to get the public back into that landscape using using Land and Water Conservation Fund dollars. So it really is an amazingly important program for your average kid who just wants to be able to go play stickball someplace, to somebody who relies on these public lands to fill their freezer and and feed their family. Yeah, it's so it's so vast the impact of this bill. We're asking our listeners in this episode to go find a place near them, you know, Well, we're gonna provide a map that the Land and Water Conservation Fund Coalition that has on their website and ask people to go out find a place that's been funded or impacted by LBCF and go recreate there, take a photo, do something really cool, and you know, and and to get this idea that this is so ubiquitous it is everywhere. In fact, my son there's a dinosaur parking Bowsman that my son loves to play at and there's a big sign right in front that says this is funded by LWCF. So it's a good point that you make that that there's so many things from swimming pools to parks, you know, outside of the things you and I love to do outside in hunting and fishing. Yeah, now it's a continuum. And when you give kids the opportunity to fall in love with the outdoors, then they grew up. And you know, I I myself, I was an adult onset hunter. I didn't start really getting serious and relying on hunting and fishing to fill the freezer until I was late twenties, early thirties probably, And but I had that love from places that were close to me when I was a kid. And I really think that every kid across this country needs to have that opportunity if we're going to have a generation that wants to steward these places when we're all gone. Yeah, incredibly important, and it it has become you know, in the vote in the Senate there was seventy three a's and twenty five days, so there was it's it's I think probably in this political climate, you would agree that this issue has become bipartisan. Uh do you guys talk about that within Congress? But how this issue is seems to be a unifying issue. It seems to be bipartisan. I you know, by the votes and the actions, it is bipartisan. And it wasn't always so much that way. If you went back to public lands were more partisan, and I mean I viscerally had a negative reaction to that when I got to Congress and saw how, um, public lands were really a battle for various think tanks on the left and right in Washington, d c. And to me, it was like, I don't care what part of the political spectrum you're on in New Mexico, you use these places that they're the places that your family goes to on the weekends, and um, you know, there was really I think a concerted effort and sportsmen were a critical part of it over the last ten years to regain that American center because there's nothing more democratic, in my view, been public lands. It doesn't matter how thicker thin your wallet is. You get to go out and use these places. Um. You know, whether you're a bird watcher or whether you want to put an elk in your freezer, it doesn't matter. They're yours, They're your birthright. And uh we as a result, I think we've really regained a strong bipartisan coalition that that represents where America is today. From hunting and fishing groups to many other user groups all came together to make this possible and to give people like me the political momentum to work with my colleagues on the other side of the aisle to get this over the finish line. Yeah, well, we've We've always appreciated you coming to the rendezvous and been being a part of content like this and helping us really understand what we can do. Um And so you know, other than calling congressional switchboard and talking about this, as we mentioned, you know, we do we. I was just talking to Lantani. He's been on with us and we were just saying, we want to get this over the finish line. We know everyone's very confident. I'm assuming you're confident as well, but you know, kind of give us a you know, take a temperature of where you are right now with us as we go to the House vote and then signature by President Trump. You know, I feel really good about the prospects for the House vote, but I'm also very paranoid because I've been in Washington, d C. Long enough to know that things can go sideways for completely unexpected reasons having nothing to do with the issue at hand or that you're trying to get past. And so I think just keeping everyone focused on the importance of this uh continuing to reinforce for all of those members, you know, whether you're in southwestern Idaho or northeastern New Mexico or anywhere in between. Like just keeping the calls coming in and really giving people the motivation to know that this is a part of history that they can be part of and be proud of long after they've on their service in in Washington. Yeah, it's been good to see, even within the hunting industry, for all the conservation organizations to be behind this from the Sheep Foundation to b h A all the way to the the Boone and Crockett Club. Everybody's expressed their support. So it's good too, good to see that coalition in a sense come together and be able to really affect and make your job easier. So no question, I wish, I wish we could trade what we're doing this well, actually we'll we'll take some time for that. What are you doing this fall? What big hunts? Anything you're excited to tell people about. Um? Well, I I did not do too well in in my draw in UH in New Mexico. Uh So for the first time, I am planning a trip uh to Alaska for for Cariboo, a bit of a father's son trip and so um yeah, I'm really excited about it. That's great. Yeah, well I didn't do so well, but it's nice to know that even senators have problems in the tag drawl, so just like the rest of us. Um but I'm glad you got here going north with your son and and that you're they're supporting what we love here at this show. And everybody at Meat Eater always wants me to say thank you to you for all that you do for us and for supporting our lifestyle and and and all the conservations out there that are fighting to get this through. So Senators, thank you so much. Thank you guys, because you really have changed the dynamic. It's so much easier to to do these things in a bipartisan way. And I think because you represent people from such a diversity of states, it really has changed the dynamic on the ground in Congress. And I'm I'm grateful to all the folks who follow you because they're part of that. Yeah, it's it's been huge for us to see to see from the east to the South, to the north, to you know, to your home state in New Mexico, that we've been able to you know, just tell people that this this stuff matters and you can make a difference in a time where most people don't feel that in other aspects of our culture and society. So exactly right, this is a good a good moment, a good moment for this bill. I'm happy that we're pushing it and we're going to continue to kind of get the word out and talking to everybody we can. Great. Thanks for having me, Ben, Thank you, Senator Representative Stuyvers. How are you today, sir, Hey I'm great. How are you guys doing. We're not doing too bad here in Montana. I'm here with Sam Longer in my colleague. We are doing a podcast and covering the Great American Outdoors Act. We're excited that it's gotten its way to the House, but we are still pushing hard to make sure he gets all the way to the president's death. So I wanted to catch up with you and talk a little bit about the legislation. UM, I guess we'll give you it. We'll start with an easy one. Why why did you um co sponsor the bill? Or why did you sponsor the bill and put it into the House. Well, one of the reasons I'm one of the original co sponsors is the Land and Water Conservation Fund. It works. It's a great public private partnership it that allows for conservation, allows people to use our public lands and get access to the great outdoors. And I'm lucky in my district have some really cool places like the Wayne National Forest and the Hockey Hills that are amazing. I was a boy scout growing up, so the outdoors have always had a really important place in my heart and in my life, and so I wanted to make sure that everybody has access to the great outdoors. And you know, we have in our natural parks that twenty billion dollar maintenance backlog right now. Uh, there's all kinds of things that need to get done, and so I thought it was really important that we have permanent funding for the Land and Water Conservation Fund because it works. And um so I'm excited to be one of the original co sponsors. Just yesterday, the Republican leader Ken and McCarthy announced his endorsement of the bill, which is a big deal. And earlier in Luis Skinny Hoyer announced that he would bring the bill up for a vote near the end of July. Originally we were hoping that we might actually get the bill on a suspension vote. It'll it sounds like from what the Majority leader Stinny Hoyer announce he's gonna bring it up under a rule vote. That's okay. You know, it still passes. In fact, under a rule it's easier to pass. Only needs two eighteen votes versus two hundred ninety votes, and I feel confident that we'll have over three votes on this bill. So we're working hard every day. I'm texting and calling my colleagues to get more co sponsors every day, and I feel really good about our chances to get this done. And uh, you know, right now, given COVID nineteen and everything that's going on, people are yearning for the great outdoors and it's uh, it's an incredible economic boon for our economy too. If you just look at my district, UM, people spent one point three seven billion dollars last year on outdoor recreation. Uh, that's a big deal. And you know last year a million Ohioans purchased either hunting licenses or fishing licenses, So we've got a lot of hunters and anglers in Ohio. Yeah, well that's that's really We just want to partly say thank you for pushing so hard at this, you know, all the way from Montana. This means it's something to every American that likes to go outside. As you mentioned, why do you think this is such a bipartisan effort this can be in such a polar polarized time. We're now looking at, um a great piece of legislation that's by Cameron and bipartisans. Have you talked about that with your colleagues, have you guys discussed that or why do you think, Um, you're so confident. Yeah, I have, And I think it's Yeah, I think it's the fact that, uh, like I said, so many people already understand and appreciate great outdoors and they're so many people that are yearning to be outdoors given what we're all trying to cope with on the coronavirus and everything else, that it's something like this that that can bring people together in the House and the Senate Republicans and Democrats, and I think it's something that's great for every American. So it's pretty easy. Yeah, thank thank you, Steve. We really appreciate you carrying the water there for us. We've been publishing a lot about this this bill, and we're just really excited about it. You know, we've been fans of LWCF for a long time and it's great to see money actually going towards restoring some of these these parks and places. Um. And you know, you kind of already answered my question a little bit here about why now, But I'd also love to hear you talk about kind of the job's aspect of this, because I've I've heard a lot of optimism expressed that in a time of what is it now national unemployment, Like what what do you think this legislation could do to address that issue? I think it can um encourage and and help people understand that they can go enjoy the great outdoors. People are this summer with you know a lot of public pools closed. Things are not back to normal yet. Um. You know, the camps that my daughter and son we're gonna go to got canceled this summer. So I think we're gonna be going to the Wayne National Force and the Hockey Hills this summer. The Hockey Hill State Parks just open back up, and so we're gonna be enjoying the great outdoors ourselves. And I think a lot of people can do that. And when they do that, like I said, last year, people spent one point three seven billion dollars in my district alone. I expect that number will actually be hired this year. Uh. And you know, we've got great UM folks that support that in my district. Hilaris makes a lot of side by side UM motorsport vehicles and that people can joy UM in the Wayne National Forest. We've got Rocky Boots, which is a boot manufacturer in Nelsonville, Ohio, and my district. So not only does it support jobs of the people at these venues, but it supports jobs because people you know, might go get a new set of boots to go when they go out hiking or something like that. So it supports a bunch of jobs. And the RV and and motorsports uh uh sectors to which I think are really important. A lot of people that enjoy the back country enjoy it in uh in the in in motorized vehicles. Yeah. Absolutely, um that and that's that's great to hear. We'd all love to see more people getting back to work. I know it's true some hard times going on across the country. Uh. You know, one thing I'd love to discuss with you is that there's uh, you know, a vocal minority emerging in uh in the House that is in uh, pretty serious opposition to this bill. I know it's it's not a whole heck of a lot of representatives. And you said that you thought you'd probably have three votes. That's amazing to hear. But you know, I imagine you've had conversations with some of those congressmen, and I just love to love to hear about what what how those conversations have gone and uh, you know what what we can we can all do as a community to address some of those concerns. Yeah. So there are some folks in the areas Louisiana, the off shore areas that wants some of the UM offshore drilling revenue share change with their states. Uh those are you know. So it's it's states from the Gulf Coast mostly that I've heard some concerns about. And we can work through some of those issues. Uh, you know, we have some Um I think there may be a way to get to an answer that makes those folks happy, uh, and still get the done because it's really important. Yeah, there are there ways that you envisioned that it doesn't get done. I know we're all we're confident here, but we've been talking with Lantani from back count of hunters and anglers and some other folks, and we're just trying to make sure people understand that we're not across the finish line yet. UM. Some ways to go. UM. I know your confidence level is high, but what's the concern if any well, the other concerns. The other other concern out there is, you know, we've got some folks who I think are worried that, um, this will lead to kind of a land graph, but the LWCS has always been a willing buy or willing seller markets. I think we can address those concerns too. I'm not concerned. Uh, you know, people start out with some issues, but I feel confident will get well over three uh supporters of this build before it makes it through the House. You know, there was a solid vote in the Senate that was great to see and uh, you know, we can certainly figure that out here in the House. And I feel confident we'll get this thing done. It. You know, like any bill, it takes work. But luckily a bunch of us who are working on this aren't scared of work. The President supports this bill and it is looking forward to signing it, so I know that that that will be helpful to some folks here. And and you know, it's always good to know that you don't face any kind of veto threat. You've got a president that actually wants to help out and sign a bill. That's great. And there's other you know, other things that we Before we let you go, I want to talk about in the veterans world. UM at b h A where I'm sitting on the board in Sam's a former employee b h A. We care about that organization a lot, and they have an armed Forces initiative that they're working on right now to get veterans in the outdoors. And I know you yourself have been hard on the one of the champions of veterans issues. You are, yourself spent thirty years in the Ohio Army National Guard. So I just wanted to give you a chance to talk about, you know, your passion for veterans and a little bit of what you feel like the outdoors can do for for those folks. Well, I've gotten a chance to serve with a lot of amazing people both in my time in the National Guard when I deployed the Operation Racky Freedom as an Italian commander, and you know, unfortunately, I've had soldiers that served under me that have faced things like post traumatic stress and mental illness as a result of their service. And you know, I've seen the great outdoors serve as an amazing therapy for our veterans that have post traumatic stress. You know, gaining access to that kind of recreation really is therapeutic. And um, I've seen a ton of programs, uh that that helped make sure that those soldiers, sailors, airmond Marines have sort of mission oriented tasks that allow them to uh get back to who they were and uh and just being in the outdoors, as I said, is very therapeutic to them. So I've really um seen that as one of the positive things. And I'm so excited that so many folks are working to help our veterans that need it get access to the great outdoors because it does make a huge, huge difference, um in their symptoms of depression and post traumatic stress. You know, we lose twenty two veterans a day to suicide, and if we can even stop some of that, uh, it'll be a big, big deal. That's huge. And we really appreciate all the way from out here Montana. We appreciate your support on Great American Outdoors Act and everything that you do represented stiverers. Thank you so much, and UM appreciate you have a good day out there in Ohio. Thank you too. Take care guys, All right, thank you so much. Thanks. That's it. That's all another episode in the books. How you feeling, Philly? Feeling good? Good? Yeah, Yeah, it's it's really uh, it's kind of crazy. That this thing is actually happening, which part the fact that I'm getting tested for COVID or the fact that that h no, that was only a matter of time. I'm talking about the great American outdoors act man. Yeah, I will say in all seriousness, you know, we try a kid about as much as we can. I am fine, hopefully. Um, I'm just worried about everybody around me. So I don't wanna. I don't want to be patient zero. I don't want to get anyone sick, including my family or anyone around me. So I am. I missed Jari Faarat his wedding over the weekend. I'm missing a week or so in the office, but it is u important to to understand what's going on around us and make sure we're making the best decisges possible. So I'm trying to do the best I can for that, and hopefully next week or the week after I'll be back in the office. We'll be back to normal, as normal as we can be during times of COVID um. And so don't miss me too bad, Phil, am I supposed to respond to that, You know, what's just funt of that at all? Phil, hold On, I feel I feel are we going downhill our relationship are Do you feel like you're just more disconnected than ever? What I do know, everything's everything's great. I don't know what you're talking about. I think it's just the whole you know, working from home and then coming back, but then you know, we still have guests that are remote. It's just it's just different, different times, different times. It is different times, um for sure, but thanks for thanks to you, Thanks to you for sticking with me feel throughout this. I really you've been by my side, you know, and without fail, and so that means a lot. It's been my pleasure. Don't get emotional. I can see that. I can see you might be getting emotional. Do not do it, Okay, I'm I'm I'm laughing, So the tears don't come out. That's it, that's what you're all right. Well, thank you to Senator Heinrich, thank you to Representative Steve Stivers from Ohio. Thank you to Lantani, thank you to Sam Longer, and thanks to everybody's been a part of talking about and analyzing and pushing forward this legislation. We don't often talk about important legislation here, but this is one that I think and we all think, um that that really needs to be highlighted for the reasons we've already said, so we won't labor that. So again, if if you have questions about this, there's many many resources where you can go. The LWCF Coalition is one. Back your back country hunters and English is one. The Mediator dot com is he had another. UM get educated wherever you can listen to whatever credible source that you can find. But again, getting educated and thinking about this is important. So again the Great American LWCF Challenge, I want to go over one more time so everybody has a chance to hear it again. It's really a five step process. The first step is you're gonna travel to an LWCF funded site. You can find that on the LWCF Coalition website. You can find their map of LWCF sites there. It's easy to find. Trust me UM. Travel to a site could be a pool park, a wildlife refuge, piece bl on ground, doesn't matter, you go there. The second thing you do, you have a good time, recreate, enjoy that piece of property, enjoy that land um for what it's meant to be enjoyed for. Then you're gonna during the visit, you're going to create something a music video, an image, a drawing, a dance, a poem, any other ideas Phil for what people could do. Let's see, how about a short film? Is that too long? Uh No, a short film is not too long by definition for three to five minutes. I want. I want character arcs. I want twists, surprising twists, the I want I want professional level cinematography. UM should be easy, yes, perfect. Phil has very few Phil often doesn't make your quest of you out there and listener land, so when I when he speaks, you should listen. You know what we like, man, We like poems with like music, We like drawing anything, anything that's creative that expresses your your love for Phil and White Claw and your hate for peas. Natural line could be in there. Whatever, it doesn't matter. You could bring a natural line with you to the place. UM. Anything that makes us laugh, that makes us think about conservation, public fans works for us. UM. Again, you have a couple of weeks to do this. Hopefully you're listening to this. On June twenty nine, two weeks from today, we will get together, have a couple of white claws. Hopefully I'll be cleared of any illness, and we'll get together with our crew and do some laughing and some voting on what you guys turned in and to close it all out, if you want to be considered, you're sending it to me a th HC at the Mediator dot com th HC at the media dot com. Thanks to first like Nemo and Vortex for being involved and giving away awesome prizes for everybody out there. This is a big deal to me, big deals with a lot of people, and I'm hoping that you all can can jump on board with us and and um have a little fun. So that's it. That's all I have to say, and we'll be back next week. With my friends Ryan and Hillary Lampers, we were up in three Forks where they live, talking about their Hunt Harvest Health platform, what they do, who they are, how they handle their marriage a hunter and a non hunter together, um, how we can maybe do that better with our spouses and then film maybe once you become a hunter, this might help you learn how to deal with it. Yeah, I mean I so, I just got done editing that episode, and I really enjoyed that conversation because it's not really something I have ever had to think about. But it also made me think that I will never be able to be a hunter because I feel I feel guilty leaving my family to go to the grocery store. So Brian Lampers leaves for twenty days at a time, comes and maybe comes back with an animal, maybe not. Um, so it's a sacrifice. Fill. Everybody's at this point that the community pressure is on youth Phil because everybody wants you to go hunting. I get a message a day frankly for people encouraging me to get you out there. Yeah, well you better get on that. This is all this is your responsibility. I'm just you know, I'm just waiting for things to happen to me. I'm not being very, very very proactive. Um, that's true. Is your number changed? What was your number before earlier this? Well, I think my number has changed. I think it was too and then maybe I brought it up to a four or four and a half of well calling air calling. Know you're listening. If you need to send Phil, I know you send him a book about how to poop in the woods. If you need to thank you, a letter of encouragement or anything like that, please do Why right, everybody, I am doing my best to stick with you through some weirdness, but we will see you next week. Please. I will be refreshing my h C at the media dot Com email all week and over the weekend hoping to see what are some awesome entries for our great American ELMCF contest. It's gonna be a fun ride. I'm excited. I know you are, to Phil correct. I love a good contest. You know. At first, I was kind of I was getting kind of sick of the contest ben to be honest, because I mean, it was just so much content. It was hard to to sit around and judge people because I hated saying anything negative. I wanted to support everybody. So I was glad the contests were over. But now I'm glad. I I want more. I'm I'm ready for a new wave of of user content. Well, I mean, I am. I want to be And I've said this maybe I don't know if I've ever said it on the show, but I'm trying to be the Oprah of Hunting book clubs lots of contests. That's what I want. I just want that to be our brand. And um, I'll do anything to make it happen. Yeah, well, they already pay you as much as Oprah got paid, so that's true. That's true, all right, But I can we give away a car next time you think we're really all right, that's fine, all right, everybody, We will see you next week. Enjoy the contest. Say bye, philm goodbye. You know, because I can't go a week without doing rung without rung up drank

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