00:00:12 Speaker 1: I guess I grew up on an all day row. Hey everybody, it's episode one thirty one. Phil is mouthing the number of the episode because I always forget. But here we are. It's a wonderful Monday. You'll be listening to this on Tuesday. But it's Monday. It's the day after Father's Day. Phil, How was your Father's Day? Buddy? Oh? It was? It was nice. It was nice. Um, I heard Bozeman got rain? Did Boseman get rain? Yesterday? A little bit? I mean the sprits. Where were you. I'm a little bit outside of town. We didn't get any rain. Oh neither did die? Okay, okay, you live in the hills. Yeah, what's your kids get you? Uh uh? They got me like a like a backyard patio bar. That's really that's telling Phil. It's it's supposed to be like like a tiki bar made out of bamboo and have it doesn't have like thatch wood or anything, but it has kind of like you know, it's like this slated wood. It's nice. That's gonna be fun. You're an alcoholic, do it outside, do it outside, Keep this outside. I'm not gonna lie. That thought went through my head, um, but you know I appreciate it. Well, that's good. Uh. I just got a card in a cool picture frame which I'll put him put on my desk. Uh. And then I just kind of drank all day, did some yardwork. It was It's very suburban of me, and I liked it. I liked it, so don't judge. Um, Phil got a nice haircut. Hey, thanks man. Shout out to where'd you go? Har a salon in Boze in Montana? Alright, not a sponsor, but they did a great job in your hair. Yeah. Um, Joe's getting married, getting married Saturday on Saturday. It's happening, happening. Wow, he's a little dry mouth right now because he had a little impromptu bachelor party this weekend. Drink a lot. I spent my Father's Day throwing up while driving. Yeah, that's that's hounds safe. That's the most well. I was the passenger in the Okay and I kept having my buddy tie pull over. It was like, tie, it's coming up again, pull over, buddy. One of these weeks we'll have a full recap of Joe's wedding. But Joe, are you nervous? No, I'm not nervous, You're not nervous. Excited, you're excited. Yeah, you're gonna have some fun. I'm not gonna drink as much as I did this with the social distance at this wedding. If you want to, it's available. It's available, it's available, just walk. It's all outside. There's proper precautions well for those who feel like it is necessary from here at THHD. Congratulations on your pending nuptials. You can count them. It's gonna be the ground of applause. Philip put a sound effect in there or something that was good enough. He's getting, but you liked. As a wedding gift, We're gonna give you five percent off th HC merch in the Mediator store. Hold on, I just got an email. Um, we can only offer three three you can get take it. You can wear a shirt, probably won't a cup hot, A lot of ship, yeah, we got a lot of ship. Um, all right, well we gotta get a lot of things we have, Uh, Carter Mark Carter that guy, what a wonderful guy. Um, we're gonna talk a little bit about Cancel culture before we get to him. We're not gonna give it's a long interview. So we're gonna try to work through some of these emails and then get to him. But trust me, I feel that it's one of the best interviews we've ever done, and so please stick around for it. We're not gonna give a whole We're not gonna preface it with much other than like it will stand alone, and you should. You should spend the time roughly what is it? Two hours? Did you look at it, Phil? Two hours? Thought it was pushing three. It was a long time. We spent about twenty minutes, bullshit, and prior to we we did spend a lot of time. So it's been two hour conversation. Hopefully you enjoy it. I know you will listen to the whole thing. Please listen to the entire thing. But we got a lot of emails to get to. But before we do that, I guess what's back? Phil? I know, but I'm going to pretend that I don't. What what's back? Man? Is it like doll? Something dull like dole? Moments not so sharp? Up, Oh my god, I'm excited. It's back. Play the jingle sharp, not so sharp moments sharp so you don't have to, alright, work sharp, not so Sharp Moments is back, thanks again to Work Sharp Work Sharp has a pretty cool series of videos on the website now teaching me how to sharpen knives. You're gonna need that at some point, trust me. But this is we were gonna have a debate about this Notzo Sharp moment. This came in unfettered on and we did not ask for it. People have been sending in Notzo Sharp moments. People have been doing dumb shit, uh since we last checked in with no Sharp Moments, and you've all been sending them to me. So I've logged them in a folder so we have some. But this is your chance. If you're listening to this now and you have a not a Sharp moment. We're going to do this for the rest of the year, all through the fall. So if you do something stupid, write it down, be creative and send it in to us. But you have to tell the truth, Phil right, you should. You can't make it up. No, we're not gonna know this one, and I'm about to read I read it a little bit ago and discuss with Joe. You have your doubts. I have my doubts about whether it's true or not, and if it is true, it's not so sharp to the maximum, like it's the least sharp thing I've ever heard, which is maybe we're sending the bar high though for the first, the first moment of the kind of I just want to skip to the end because everything else just anyway, I digress. I should read it to you. This is from Ashley. I don't know if I won't even say her last name for her sake, don't Ashley. And it's spelled a s H L E I g H. You know, right when you said and it's spelled like, yeah, I knew you were going to say that. Now I'm very upset. Now you're upset enough, you've upset pail Ashley. Actually, he would prefer you to spell your name like a normal act. Actually, now that was the first clue that something was amiss when I saw the spelling of Ashley. But anyway, it's already fake. She her name is Ashley. She's not a hunter, but she respects and admires hunters. She doesn't mind getting her hands dirty if her boyfriend who does hunt needs an extra set of hands. A huge fan of the podcast and the show and everything else that we do. And she listens on her drive. So so right now she does like to go fishing and camping and go outside exploring. You're gonna need to know that for what comes next. I'm gonna do my best work through this. Do we have it like a background music? No? Nothing, we need it with this one. I just mean there's more pressure on you to put a lot of life into deliver it. Okay, actually says I've got five kids, and I try to raise them right, and it's still a love of the outdoors every chance I get. I'm also stubborn as an ox, and I've been fortunate enough to have my middle son inherit that particular trait from me. I'm a big fan of letting my kids learn the hard way, provided it safe to do so. So, of course, when my middle son was eight, he decided he didn't have to listen to me anymore because he was going to walk out into the woods and live on his own. Do you ever have that notion when you're a young man, Phil, not at all a coward, You're just gonna go Christopher mccandal list and just live in a van uh. I naturally decided to let him play. Playing a three day camping trip including choosing what to pack, but he could only pack what he could carry. Kid had no real money, but I'm determined that he has to learn how hard you have to work to get things you need. So he earned monopoly money by doing chores for other family members over the course of a few weeks, and I had a mass the selection of hiking and camping give for him to purchase before our trip out. Picking this up, Phil feeling comfortab al right, well, hang on, he could only take what he could purchase, and I would only pack my own bag with similar items. We were driven two hours out and dropped off at the trail head in the morning, with a rendezvous point and pick up time established. So far, pretty sharp, it seems great. Pretty sharp? Yeah, learning left going well. About five miles in, I realized I lost my phone and thus our map and our ability to call for early extraction should something go wrong. Now I just want to make a guy. As I was reading and I'm like, well, this is this is the time where you turned around and go back out. You're not that fireing five miles in? What are you doing five miles in? Anyway? Get some exercise? Uh? Okay. At this point all I could do is keep track of what turns we were making and head for the lake. I don't know what like this is, but hopefully it's an easy one to find and try to catch some dinner. We we found a good spot by the lake, but I had failed to realize that the path we had turned down led to a lake in a recent burn area, not the lake that was several miles in the opposite direction, surrounded by all the berry bushes and shade trees we could have asked for. So now you're at the wrong lake. There's no shade, no food to be had. So she said, I call a break to rest and go relieve myself. Normally this story would go in that direction. That would have all be all to do with relieving one classic, classic classic. When I returned my son returned to my son, I find that he has burned every one of our matches trying to start a fire with a stick. Tired, hungry, and irritated, I realized, if we're going to make it to the other lake, we need to eat something. All we had packed were life straws, fishing poles, and survival tabs. Because the kid decided he could make it on his own, and I conceded that we could survive on the tabs as well as hopefully catching some fish, gathering berries and Morrel's I got to pull out to survival tabs only the and that he had eaten all of them during the hike. And while I was answering nature's call, Now I've got a handful morales, no berries, and a fishing pole, and realize we're not going to hike to the other lake without any food. So I set out to fish. I'm fishing for hours, not catching a damn thing, getting hunger every minute. A random hiker came along, asking if we minded if he set up camp near us, and if we had any water, as he had made the bright decision himself to hike out ten miles to camp for two days, and it only brought a leader of water. Where are you like in the dumbest piece of timber ever? Who water filter? Anybody? You're buy a lake lord? And mighty gets worse, though it gets worse. Together we made a fairly decent ragtag group of idiots in the woods. Well leash yourself away, self aware, That's exactly what I was that matter. There's no way you can type that out and not not make that mention. We had two lifetraals, so I traded a LifeStraw for a handed fishing, and he and the guest wound up catching the only three fish that were caught that weekend. My son managed to decapitate a garter snake with his machete, so we cleaned that and ate that as well. If you can even call that eating, they ate a gardener snake, okay. On the hike out, we passed a couple hiking in and I asked if they happened to have a goranola bar despair, and they gave me a pack of cliff blocks, which I devoured and of course promptly let me let me pause here. Cliff blocks. Do you guys know what those are? Yeah, they're chewy, little energy blocks, little energy blocks. So I actually devoured them, and of course, as she says, of course, I don't know why this would be, and of course promptly regurgitated them into a puddle of still perfectly formed gummies and water, the only other thing that was in my stomach. She forgets the garter snake. I'm not I'm not one to waste, so I rinse those suckers. Off and ate them again. Dramatic pause. You guys a picture in this Ashley's got problems all on our ford, just puking into the dirt and then just scooping them up. The great news is they stayed down the second time. This is thank god. It gets worse. This is go home Ashley with a g in an h By the trailhead we found three McDonald's chicken nuggets on the ground. Yes, you want to guess what happens next, and I should you not. They were the best thing I had ever eaten up to that moment in my life. Oh. I mean, I can imagine like like a beam of light coming down from the clouds shining on the chicken nuggets. Moral of the story is, can't wait for this one. Don't let your eight year old plan a camping trip. It's a not so sharp decision, Phil where not so sharp moment? So you don't have season Well that's a good way to start season two. I hope that's not true. It's I mean, it sounds believable. That sounds believable. When I first read, I'm like, dah, there's no There's so much detail in there, and I think that's that's true, and I'm sorry Ashley. I'm sorry too. I'm sorry to this unnamed eight year old boy who had learned what I wanted valuable lesson. He learned, if you pick it up, you can eat it depends on how much you chewed. It sounded like she he was doing great. He's like, I got this snake gonna eat it. Oh yeah, he was having a hard time starting to fire. But he sounded like a trooper. Yeah, he ate a guard station. He made a probably lifelong friend, and that gentleman that they met in the woods. All right, well, that's that's a high bar for season two of Not So Sharp Moments. Please write us at th AC at the media dot com. Let us know all the stupid things you're doing outside. Please uh not too long, not too short, just right and be creative, but be truthful. Okay, now we got a bunch of more really fun emails to read. This one is another one of my favorites. Now, I gotta say, man, like the THHC email account is the thing that keeps me going, Joe, that just keeps me really because of the mediator account is what keeps me down. Well, that shows you the hopefully like the fact that way less people listen to this podcast keeps it insulated. That's the point. That's the we don't want. If you're out there and you're new listening, you know whatever, whatever, keeps listening if you want. But we're trying to keep this thing small. And I'm not sure about this. Uh, this marketing campaign going crap. You know, last week we talked about our liberal hunter friend Chad Chad Liberal Hunters. Was it c J. No, it was Chad. I it was Chad Chad. Oh. I love Chad's most chats. Anyway, this guy that Martin Resnick writes in he says, uh, I'll try to jump through this a little bit for time's sake. Uh adnt On, said Hunter, longtime listener. He says, I've done all the things dope city folks do with too much money and no experience. I bought slick mashing camera systems, read bad information on the Internet, and I haven't killed ship save a rabbit. I love that line keep going, so it's fine. I get it. I'm unintentionally the butt of almost every Hunting Personalities jokes, except, of course, yours. I love that you try to reach public lands, communists like me, and after years of listening to your show, I don't doubt your good intentions. But at the same time, I'm still I'm still a demographic and my ratio of dollars spent it first, like the Big Game kills is undefined seeing you as you can't divide by zero, but also embarrassingly, since the numerator here is, it's so high. So I have never quite been able to shake the feeling that maybe, just maybe there's a vague whiff of pandering to people like me without genuine acceptance, so he thinks we're pandering to him. I agree. This shows about pandering to everybody, Like if you're out there, we'll just don't listen too much because then you know, we'll get too big. Uh. For me, the show is kind of like mayonnaise. Once I get past the vaguely suspicious odor, it's delicious. Man. This guy, we're on the same women. This is you, Phil, I've been thinking for me, you don't have first Light, though I won't allow you to have that. You gotta pay for it, that is, and now here's where it goes. That is, until episode one thirty, when you finally gave us liberals the ship talking trolling we deserve. I actually feel more part of the community and not just part of a valuable audience. A little mockery is the most valuable kind of recognition. It is nice to know that THHD believes that people like me are relevant enough to tease, but can be counted on to to not simply go away if we get huffey and offended. Thank you, I mean it. I don't have a little Liberal Hunter Facebook page, and I have made some friends locally who can help me out. But finding partners and mentors really is not easy when you come from way outside the culture. Uh. He also says, uh, he hoped to win the New Zealand Hunt with me, but he didn't, so he could on the plane right over there and he could explain to me that I'm not a stoic and that Ryan Holiday is deeply misguided. But anyway, he's got like some jas like jabbing. You like this guy. We made a joke about liberals. Now he's like, I'm in him and I would get along. I feel like me and him an East Coast liberal guy. But he's obviously not liberal because he made the joke that Martin, if you were liberal you'd be offended. Yeah, he'd be offended and running away. He's obviously not liberal. Stop faking it, liberal bastard, get it together. Um Tofu never caused a pandemic. This. Let me show you this film. This is a billboard by Peter Tofu never caused the pandemic. That never caused the pandemic. Tofu is on it. Wow. I mean I'm trying to think about like how affective how I mean, let's let's like put a site how stupid that billboard is for a second, but like, how how effective do you think that like messaging like that is? Well some people drove Yeah, well it's like do you know what the takeaway from like this global pandemic is no more meat we should like? Is that kind of I mean, I wonder how many people honestly think that Probably like a decent amount. I don't know. Man uh Amanda Atkinson wrote in she wanted to show us this because I certainly if I if I, if I'd have seen it, I'd have pulled over, of course taking a picture and probably made some sort of starting post at it on the internet. But she said, I love listening to THC. Since you have discussed veganism, factory farms, animal writs, meat substitutes, etcetera. I thought i'd share this billboard that I saw the other day on my way home from worked. I live in central Indiana, which is really, I feel like the target region for Peter. What's Peter doing in Indiana? None of the people are there, that's all our people there. Get out, Get out there, Get out of there. The first time I saw it, I had to do a double take, like, what the fuck did I just read what I thought I read. There are so many things I could say about the message here, and I find it particularly hilarious because I'm a registered dietitian who hunts and eats meat. I don't know if you can see who sponsored the billboard in the picture we did, it's Peter. But like I said, I could make a ton of comments on how messed up this message is. For instance, yeah, TOFO never caused the pandemic, But tell me the last time that any sort of wild game did either. Could you imagine the backlash that would probably be caused if Cabela's, For some irony, there is a Cabella's at the exit just south where this billboard is put up. A billboard that said venison never caused the pandemic with a picture of a white tail and try it in November, not to mention the overall fear of animal products that they are trying to instill in people. As a registered dietitian, I spend my days treating people who struggle with eating disorders, trying to help them heal from food guilt, slash fear. So when I see ship like this, it just makes me crazy. That's a that's what she wrote. I like her. I really like her too. I want to be her friend. What's her name? Her name is Amanda, Amanda Uh, that's with three H. And I did google this marketing campaign from Peter and it looks like they have these billboards up in California. BIGX sprised there Iowa. And of course the article that comes up when you Google this is also filled with flawed logic and guilt trips. She included the link for us, which I will click now, but I imagine what it says, reality check, reality check, phil Tofu never caused the pandemic? Was the last the last pandemic? People would say, it was like nineteen eighteen. How yes, I'm sure I'm found I don't think tofu was being I mean, like, how long has tofu been a product? I well, I don't know. I don't know that. I think since since we were lower were little lower hominism when we became they looked that up Joe like, so of course has been around like when. Yeah, I don't know. Peter will be happy when the US meat shortage is solved, but not by the reopening of slaughterhouses by millions of individuals decisions to ditch meat altogether. After all, eating animals and slaughtering them in filthy, wet markets and on factory farms. I love how they made They made that leap. They're like, you know, those wet markets, in those factory farms, small town rural America. You were really wrong, Phil. It's probably very old, isn't it. It's incredibly old. Wow, over two thousand years ago. Well, well, I'm on Peter's side. I just turned Phil. That was easy. Um. I love. This is my favorite, maybe one of my favorite sentences of all time. After all, eating animals and slaughtering them and filthy wet markets and one factory farms gave us this pandemic and lots of other viruses. Including avian flu, swine flu, mirrors, and stars. So, so hey, you know what are saying here is on THC. Never let a good crisis go to waste. Congratulations Peter, you did your best and your marketing to idiots. Back to your point, Phil, anybody who drives by this and goes yeah is an idiot I feel. Do you agree? Yeah? Uh, misinformed. I'm gonna be polite. Thanks for being You're always the voice of reason. Phil. All right, well listen, Um, I got a I had a bunch of other emails I wanted to read, but we're just we have such a long interview this week is such an important one that we're not gonna get into that. But listen, you're what's your about to listen to it? As I said earlier, is a very important conversation. His name is Mark Carter. He's a snowboarder, professional snowboarder. He's made many and many of the most famous snowboarding films out there. As a man who loves adventure, he's a man who loves regendered bagriculture, and he's a solid Earth I would say rancher from ten Sleep Wyoming. Um, But there's another side of this story. And this is a story that he's he's not told in the public sphere in this way to this point, so stick in for all of that. One of my favorites. We had a good time hunting, so you're gonna hear about that right now. Enjoy Mark Carter, Mark Carter, How are you, sir? How great? Welcome to the Meat Eater studio. Hey, how's it? Thanks for having me? You know, I tell since this is only an ear situation, it's only listening, uh engagement. Could you describe the studio for people in your best pros, like just this is your first time in here is first time. It's very cure rated. There's some some nice photography which I really enjoying. I really like the essence of the community within this building. They all have a little picture and then lots of some horns smoking something. That's that's cool. You don't know where do you do anything about that? Joe, I have no idea where that comes from. It looks like that's smoke, but it's it's art. No, it's art, not like definitely the buffler there and yeah, it's it's it's comfortable. I feel feel comfortable. I feel so comfortable within these walls. Thank you, I could say anything that's right. Now, here's what we're gonna gonna have to start with a disclaimer. We just spent you know, a couple of days in hunting camp, and you guys, now, hunting camp goes, Things get said, jokes are maybe we laugh, it's not all appropriate for the air. And so the challenge over the next however long we record, is to keep keep the two worlds separate. Yes, yes, yeah, I think so they can trickle a little, but I think the humor but there's you know, just uh, we're telling stories. We're telling stories, telling got lots of stories here. Um, Joe fair natus here Joe. Wait, we just got back from bear camp. We're still smelly all the way around. Didn't see a bear, No bears. The story of Joe's basic stories that he took us to his hot spot where where he killed his bear, the hottest of spots. Would you like, how would you say in Fuego fire spot, like, how would you describe this spot? Like you in your mind there were bears, so like hundreds of bears, herds of them not not heard. I wouldn't say that in my mind. It was like it was a prime spot, good country everywhere. Everywhere we went, you were able to move fairly easily throughout the country. It was a spot where I was like, we'll go there. We might not, you know, get a bear, but at least we'll have an opportunity. That's what I was thinking. Yeah, I think I think you might be lying. I think you said to me, we're gonna get it, like we're gonna see some bears. I may have said that. I was very kind. I was under impression we're going to see bears. Smart was very calm. Mark drove here from ten Sleep, Wyoming. I did see a bear. Hey, man, it was good. It was good. It was good. We're just gonna give you ship throughout this whole. I just wanted to hang out with you guys. Man. Yeah, we we did some hanging. That's usually why I'm here, Ben to take the ship. That's right. There's long walks and just nice naps in the beautiful mountain wildflowers. So yeah, like we Joe's hotspot didn't We didn't see any bears, but we didn't see what you got salt wolves yesterday. It's a highlight of the highlight those wolves. How many wolves was it five. There was five of them. That's you don't see five wolves together. They just like they moved like ghosts, right. It was so cool. They just kind of passed and buy some elk. Yeah, those elk, I mean they were aware. But that was about the only predator we saw. Just to reiterate, we didn't see any bears, see any bears wolves though. When Joe's hotspot did hot spot hot spot black predator like a black bear. That's true, that's true. That was close. There was the big black wolf, yeah, the white one, and then like three little great ones. That's cool, that's cool. We saw a lot of elk. How many think we saw firehead. I don't think we saw five. That's that's ridiculous. That's a hundred maybe eight eight, I think, Okay, i's a way maybe less, maybe less than that, but I mean some times sometimes two right now, so you might be close. Yeah, that's how I tend to tell stories. We saw ten wolves, hundred and sixty elk. It's like Hollywood saw lots of deer, lots of meal, deers of deer. I saw a fox. The fox is legit, you know, like a black tail on the black face. The ground white spatches. We saw a lot of grouse, a lot of grouse, great grouse spot. So good hunt. We were saying around the fire last night, Mark and I looked, the best hunts are the ones where you absolutely enjoy yourself even though you were miserably unsuccessful. That is the key, I think, you know, just not having expectations is you know, I kind of always go into any situation just no expectations, like what is it, what's it going to give me? Like what's it gonna offer? And you just take what it gives you and enjoy it. And it's like, you know, just getting to hang out with you guys and talk, smack and laugh. I think it's such an important thing to you know, It's like everybody's kind of been locked down, so like to get out with some with some good guys and for a walk and laugh and just be social. This is the first time I hunted with somebody that wasn't from Montana for months. Yeah, I felt good. I felt good. I'm not gonna lie it felt good. It felt real good. Um what else I mean? Like, like I said, we only hunted, We hunted a day and a half basically, but the like nowadays for me especially, I know for YouTube Mark you. We're going to get into all that you do, because I discovered over the last day and a half that you do more than anyone I've almost ever known. Do lote yet do some things and some things. We're gonna talk about all the things a little bit here and there, but you know, the limited time we get out the country that we live in and some of the most beautiful country in the world. I mean, we were looking at we were inundated everywhere we went with beautiful parks and meadows, grats, green grass, bright green startures, grass and big ridges, snow covered peaks and all kinds of stuff. It was easy on the ice, it was easy, really easy on the good energy to you know, like I think certain certain areas, certain mountains, you definitely like feel the energy of the of the place you're in. And that place was very inviting. It was never like even walking it dark, you know, I was like, well, I knew we were in sunny Bears, so bears. I was like, got Joe with us, you know, let him leave the charge. Yeah, he gar hold us. Anyway, the most beautiful gar hole. That's what we're gonna calls beautiful. That's what we're gonna call this episode the most beautiful gar hole. But it was good for I am a habitat for bears that didn't have bears, And that's like the moral of the of this podcast really, especially since I moved to Montana's. We don't always kill ship, but we have a good time. It's called hunting. It's called hunting. They all kill him, not ever. I think it's experienced man like honestly for me, and anything that I do in my endeavors is his experience. You know. It's like it would have been great to elevate the experience with maybe like getting on something and hunting and obviously that's exhilarating, but just being out there and walking around and just you know, really getting with the pace of of of nature and slowing it down and no no cell phones, just like focused on the task at hand, and um just talking talking about real things. Uh, it's super important. That's those are the things I remember. I mean, like, there's been so many like amazing events in my life and not to like, wow, I'm the man, but like I have a lot of exhiliary things, just like from my job in my career, but like the things I really remember, the things that really matter, And it was those experiences with those people that I've traveled the world with or been in these amazing places. And it's not even about like the biggest mountains or the most amazing days like getting footage or whatever. It's just about like that experience with those people. We've all got to like share that, and yeah, it's really important. I'll tell you, Like, over the last couple of days we're talking about life, telling stories. You've heard a lot of my a lot of my stories, yeah, Sheila Guffrey, everybody, I've heard about everybody you know. You know a lot about me now the deep dark corners of my life. And I heard a lot of your stories. And like when you get to we get to talking about things and lining up on ideas. We lately we've kind of this this show is kind of circled around some things like hunting for the experience, regenet of agriculture, how we eat, how we moved through the world, how we philosophically look at like our interaction with nature, and like most most of what you have said and how you talk and how you speak, and the things that are important to you in the priorities for your life and how you shape your worldview. This. We didn't pick it out this way. I just wanted to talk to you because I knew you were interesting dude. But like, listen to you talk. I think everybody that listen to this show me personally. I'm sure Joe as well. So the way that you approach things is to me important for people to hear. Yeah, you know, I just tryda. I think an open mind is really important in approaching things. An open mind, um, and just letting things happen, you know. I I just think I really try to never force anything. I think it's just like work hard, but um, be open to like what your surroundings are. And I think just like I bring that from the mountains and like what I do in the winter and navigating, and it's like can be a pretty hazardous environment and you can never force things and never just like have expectations and you know, because it's such an emotional up and down because it's all based upon mother nature. And so when I kind of try to proach approach everything like that with just open and like listening to what's going around me and then try to respond rather than react. And you know, sometimes keeping the emotions out of it and just kind of like reacting or responding to situations. And man, I think you just just be kind, be good to people. Know, and you like you seem like you do a lot. Like you seem like you're not afraid to jump in both feet into whatever. I mean, we'll get into all the things. You I can't even remember all the things you're like, oh yeah, I'll deal with these folks. And these folks he told me that you had a motel intensely, Yeah, a little motel the carter in Yeah, my mom. Yeah, it's so it's one of those things that I'm in business with everyone in my family. They're like, whoa you know you do you can test your patients when you're in business with maybe one person. But um, I love my family, don't get me wrong. Like it's great and it's it's an amazing experience. I've always grown up working next to my family. But um, yeah, my mom we bought this motel like ten years ago, intensely, and she she wanted to do it, and I was like, hey, I'm down with like all vests and whatever, you know, handyman work, I can do it. Like, let's do this more. And then I in the beginning, I cleaned some rooms, you know, like we're pretty short staffed, and she's a go getter, like every day, all day work. And now my sister manages the place. So it's like a family of family affair for sure. But in the beginning cleaning rooms. But I was so bad at it that like she wouldn't let me do it anymore. Like I was all right cleaning, but like making bed She's like, no, you're done, And I was like, poor me, you know, something to be bad at, yeah, something to be bad at. But it was like it was good because I don't I don't really want to like make beds. Well. Like another thing that you know, as we talk about like how you shape how you think about things, that approach things, because like you're a successful man, um done a lot, doing a lot growing up. You grew up tensely wyoming. Yes are ranch, yes, sir, roughly roughly purchased by your grandfather, yep, yep. So it's been with my brothers kids, its four generations. Yeah, pretty pretty amazing place there on the on the western slope of the Biggers. Tell Us describe that thing because I know you you have. I'm sure have a lot of affinity. Yeah, I mean tensely. You know. That's my comfort zone. That's where I was born and raised on that ranch, you know, and I think, you know, I give so much of my uh the way I was shaped in my character from just growing up on on a ranch. And obviously, see my dad was a pretty hard ass and he worked as hard and he had sons so he had like help, you know, and I get it, Like I get it now. I was like, I don't want to dig that hole. Like he's like, you dig the hole. So he taught us from a very young age. We were always shorthanded to work hard. But that really molded a lot of things. You know, you're always like dad, Dad, You're such a dick. But it really was amazing growing up that way because now I look back and I'm like, oh no, he was just he understood life was going to be and he was just getting me ready. He was like take a beating, um. But just growing up I think that close to nature. We didn't have TV, you know, outside was like my my my creative space. That was like everything to me, you know, grabbing a little twenty two and run down the creek. I fished every day. We had like this beautiful tensed creek ran right through the property. And then you know, all the ranch was connected all the way up the slope at the Big Horn. So I grew up just kind of running wild like a kyo. And you know, if we if we stood, if we were around the house, like there was always every morning you had to get up early, like no matter what, if there was anything going on. Like Dad was like, it didn't even matter if you're getting up, like let's go, you know. And and so that's still kind of green in my head. I have anxiety if I sleep past seven, that's fine. But I think just growing up within the dirt and just being part of that, it was it just really molded what I wanted to do. You know. At a young age, I was like, I want to be a mountain man. I had no idea. I saw like Davy Crockett. I was like, I want to be a mountain man. But like it's funny because now I like look at my life and I've like molded it to be. I'm not like a mountain man, but I am like kind of a mountain man in my career and everything that I've chosen to like you know, put my energy into. But you know, and I think my my career longevity within snowboarding has been because there is a balance because I spend my winters in Jackson Hole and then I spend my summers intenseleep, and and that really gives me this balance because Jackson is a wonderful place, but it's not really like it's not tense sleep, you know, it's not people aren't like, you know, struggling to survive and working every day and like super blue collar. There is within that, but it's kind of a little hidden behind the scenes in Jackson, but intensely puts up front. So I always made it a point to come home every summer and help my family and like ingrain myself within that community and just man, people work hard to survive, like and um, when when you're working hard to survive, you really don't have time for a lot other things like you know, unnecessary banter or whatever. But it's like that, really, I was always made it a point to be accepted by that community every time I came back, and I'll be like, oh, look at Carter over here, like you know, doing this thing traveling being a pro snowboarder, you know, And I was like I didn't even know like until like recently, like nobody really understood like what pro snowboarding was. I was kind of like, yeah, you know, I'm doing my thing, Like well, well, coming from there, that wasn't even like an option, Like nobody went out and um like chased that like unattainable dream. It was kind of an unattable thing. But I was like at a young age, I was like, well, why would I put my energy into something I don't want to do, because you know, I'm supposed to conform to this like mold, I'm gonna go like put all my energy into something that I want to do. And I think it just came with like not being afraid to fail, you know. I think that's what holds people back because like, man, I know what it is fail, you know, snowboarding, Like you learn that I'm not the best snowboarder in the world, like by any means, but I can, I like know how to wreck really good. You gotta learn how to wreck. So when you have the confidence, you're like, okay, if I like you have something lined up you want to hit or ride a line, You're like, okay if I wreck here, like I'm gonna be okay, Like I got that. Well you have then you have the confidence to just kind of go for it. And I think it's just I kind of trust. Try to take that into life. Is like, man, Like, all the failures that I've had have really, I mean those were all blessing in some way, shape or form, because you learn from that and I think just moving forward. And you know something my dad told me when I was about eighteen, and he was hard on us. You know, there wasn't a lot of like how are you feeling today? What do you guys want to do? Is like, you know he was he was running a big ranch and he was by himself. You know, he had his boys, and so we were expected to pull our weight. We worked hard. I mean, cattle battles like these moving you know, six had of cattle with you know, my dad on a horse that was bucking the whole day because he was always riding ranks stuff. And then my brother, my little brother or my big brother, and I just like getting it done and there and there was no other option than to get the job done. There wasn't like well, didn't work. Well, I guess we'll just try to know. There was like, dude, we gotta get this done. Like when when you're responsible for livestock and animals that and and I you know it's so important, like there's no quitting, so you just to find a solution. And I think that. Uh my dad like back to that. When I was eighteen, He's like, I dropped out of college because I thought I was gonna be like yeah, I call that's what everybody told you. And I got to like, well, I got a football scholarship and I was like, sweet, maybe i'll maybe I'll And it wasn't a big football scholars whatever. Give me excuse I thought I was. I thought it was pretty cool, you know. I was like I'm gonna do this and I was like I don't even know who I was then, but I dropped out. I mean I lasted like a semester and I just did not I wanted to fish and yeah, and he just told me, he's like Mark, if you know how to work hard, you'll always be okay. And I was like, damn, all right. Well I took so much like comfort and security and I was like, no matter what I do like if I fail, like I'll just get some other job and I'll work and I'll build it back up. And it was just like they gave me this real security to just kind of go for it. And I always had like the backing of the ranch, you know, like if I failed, like I could always come back to the ranch and and work and like make a living or whatever life that may be. But so it really like I, I, you know, give the ranch and my dad and my mom a lot of credit for that, like ingraining, that worth work ethic and like just kind of like go, you know, go for it. And and in the beginning they weren't like super supportive. My mom always was that's what I was gonna ask, but my dad was like what's your dad say? But that's just like what's your deal? Like you working, because I mean that's how they based like success. You know, you work hard and you know, and it's not necessarily bank accountant in in my opinion, I think it's really like what's your quality of life? And like you only need so much and I think when you you like taking on all these things, I've just learned to like just take on what I can handle, Like don't overextend myself. I'm real careful about not like over extending myself. And then I start getting stressed or like too many obligations. I'll just like pull pull back and be like yo, like this is what I can do, this is the amount of energy I have, and this is what I'm going to focus on. And man, I can't I can't complain. Man, I love my life. When did your dad turn? Like when did it? Like is there a time where he was like I get it now or like I see what you're doing? At least like there was you know, I was about you know, and I was a late bloomer because most people in the whole like trajectory of pro snowboarder, especially during that time was like you know, if you weren't like sponsored by eighteen and grinding and like you know, coming up in the ranks or whatever. It's just it was a totally different world than you're kind of old like by the time you were thirty, you're kind of like late twenties are washed up snowboard Like it was kind of done so that the template was different. And I dropped in late because during high school I was focused. I was intensely I was focused on high school. I was focused on football. I didn't I wasn't even snowboarding because our little resort that I had learned at Metal Arc it was shut down. So I kind of like lost my path and I needed purpose. So football was like took that that that place, and um, you know, I was like, I did the college and then I worked for a year and I was like, man, I just wanted to snowboarding, Like what am I doing? So I didn't even started pursuing this till I was like twenty one, and I actually moved to Bozeman. Um when I was twenty. Yeah, I moved to Bozeman. So my dad, my dad, my grandfather, UM had that he grew up. My dad grew up in Bridger Canyon. That lit, Yeah, you a little shack up there, and so him and his ten brothers and sisters grew up in Bridger Canny. So he always had these stories about Bridger Canny. And my grandpa did a bunch of logging up there and just the hunting and like the bears and just like it sounded like the wild West. And so when I decided, I was like, yo, I'm gonna I'm gonna work for a year on the ranch hard right after college. And then I'm gonna just dip out and go snowboard for a whole season and just see, you know, like eat ramen and just be poor and be a dirt bag and live on the floor and make it happen. And I was like trying to pick places to come and I was like, well, bos Man Man, I can find some comfort because my dad had been here. I was like, oh, it's kind of close intensely, like I can do that. That's a big move. So I came up. I started riding here and I spent I ended up spending two I never spent a summer, but I spent two winners writing Bridger, just kind of like getting and I hadn't snowboarded and like four or five years, so all my gear was like outdated. And I was going to there's a shop here in Bosman called World Boards, and I would go in there and like when I had enough money, I'd buy like some bindings and I got boots and I got like upgraded my my kid. I was like, man, the technology is kind of come long ways sick. And then my buddy Dan and Justin they came up from Jackson, and they were like, hey, you should come to Jackson the spring, like after you leave Bozeman. I mean I literally lived on an air mattress and I could move in my grand damn. I could throw all my gear in my grand dawn and like an hour and beyond the road. Like that was my life. And so I planned on going back to tent sleep, and then I met I ended up in Jackson and I just spent a couple of days there. I was like, dude, what have I been doing? Like I grew up in Wyoming in my whole life, I had heard about Jackson, but I didn't even know this like mountain existed. These mountains existed because I never went over there because it was like, you know, we didn't travel a lot as a kid. You know, it was like I'd go to these small resorts in in in Wyoming. So we ended up in Jackson. Man, I was I was woked. I was like, I'm coming back next year. They gave me a job and that was what really honed like my my big boy skills for for snowboarding. Well, because like snowboarding the way you were swilling. Joe knows all about snowboarding or bows more than I know. I love snowboarding. I love the mountains. Anything in the mountains is what I do. I love it too, But like I'm not I don't know that. I don't know the game. I don't know the culture. Um are you you're not aiming for gold medals? You're not aiming for are you could? Like it seems to me that you're charting your own path like what you do now if you you know, if you google Mark Carter, snowbody, you're defind films and like art, snowboarding arts, amazing Rex. Yeah, just like you know, it's very it's it's like it's it's freedom to be out there and navigate these giants safely and like look at because every snowboarder, like I have an amazing group of people I ride with and just like this this this whole community around the world that you can go anywhere and find these amazing guys and like being tapped into that that like special, you know, pro Like I have a lot of contacts, which is cool. I get to like ride with these heroes of mine. But everybody looks at the mountains different and it's like this very creative way, in free way to just to move, you know, and and and it's like this like going out in the mountains in the in the winter when when we're filming and we have these objectives in this purpose, Like I have such a sense of purpose in winter to explore and and and find new zones, to ride new new lines, new jumps, whatever we're doing, and document that. And I think that's what really is like the special part about it. I don't have anybody telling me what I need to be doing. I mean there's certain things times I have obligations of sponsors that you know, they need some assets. But I've really created this home path of mine that I get a ride with the people that I want to ride with him, which is one of the most important things. Being with the people that I trust and I no care about me and I know we're going to put their dent into what we're doing because it's dangerous and like they have positive attitudes and so it's really cool to be able to like pick my crew from the filmers to the photographers to the riders. I mean so iportant. Everybody needs to be moving um safely and smoothly, and like everybody needs to be thinking as we're navigating because it's like, you know, when conditions let us, we're going to really like walk that line a little bit, you know. I mean, we don't make any decisions like people would look at it you're crazy. But there's a lot of calculation that goes into like these objectives and the things we're writing, because you know, all the content that usually comes out is just like the best. You know. It's like, you know, I don't know how many hours of of of filming and working we do for like, you know, five minutes of film. We're only putting out the best. But um, yeah, it's it's very special. Man. What about injuries. I've definitely, you know, had some injuries, and it's always one of those things where a lot of the times you're just riding through injuries, not I mean there's injuries and hurt Like injuries are like kind of you're mobilized. It's like I did an a c L like years ago, and that was that was like that was an injury. You know, I was down for six or seven months, but that was right at the end of winter, so it was no big deal. But yeah, you take a beating, you know, like holding on like I get tendonitis, so I you know, I gotta work on like you know, just sledting all winter. My hands going numb, which super sweet, especially when trying to sleep. That's awesome. Uh. They have these amazing like like little massage guns and stuff these days. Can you use Yeah, you can just use them on your whole body. It's great, it's great. But uh, I think it's maintenance, you know. I think a lot of it comes down to nutrition, taking care of yourself. I don't party like you know, I like a good tequila once in a while, but I want to wake up just like early, ready to go. And I think putting a lot of that thought into um continuing this especially you know, I'm getting older, and not that I feel older, but it's like I am aware that your body definitely if you're not upkeeping, then stuff's gonna fall off. So it's like staying strong, eating healthy, you know, I think that's that's super important. And moving, I mean you certainly move and and you would think for me, right being a doing what you do, snowboarding all winner filming, it being part of that, the production process, doing all that that and having a ranch that would eat up all of your time, you wouldn't have time for anything else. But we already mentioned the motel, and then you also have Carter Country Meats. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so yeah, the ranch. You know, we just kind of, you know about six or seven years or seven, she's seven years ago. Uh. You know, I've been to Jackson for ten plus years and people always asking you, like, hey, like how do I get your beef? And I was like, that's a good question, man, I don't know how do I get my beef? A lot of jokes there. I love those jokes. I've definitely fed a lot of the Jackson community my beef. Yeah, you know, always people always come up and saying that I love your meat, and I love like that's great, that's a very it's a rewarding I can't wait to have your meat. You can't wait to feed you. Thank you. But so, you know, seven years ago, we we my brother and I We're like, man, we gotta do something different, you know, because this commodity thing is like you're at the mercy of the market ups and downs. Can we take a step back real quick. I think it's important that the things as important thing before we kind of because I want to talk about the ranch more end talk about car couch means obviously, but explain take us through what a rancher is in your mind, and like what a rancher means to the landscape, because we like this isn't a vital thing. Let me just say, like we've talked about genderabout of culture, you and I the other day when we're hiking, we're talking about that, talking about just like relationships to the land, relationships to the folks that control that land at some level. And I think it's very important because we all don't we haven't had a rancher on this podcast and some time, but we're always talking about these issues that are either parallel to ancillerty two are directly related to ranchers, what they do, how it affects hunters, how it affects how we eat, how it affects our food system, blah blah blah. And so I think it's important just to hear you kind of just just go nuts on. I think, I mean, some of the most dedicated, committed people that I've ever been around, you know, hard working, honest, they care more about the land and the animals. I mean, that's their responsibility, you know, in life that's their whole purpose is for those animals in that land to do well. They're the true stewards of the land. They have their their hands in the dirt, they bleed, they sweat over that land, you know, I means their survival. They have no other options, you know. And it's a real sense of community. Like ranchers. I've never like ranchers really help each other. And in spring everybody brands you help your neighbor, not because you're like looking for a hand out or a check. You just that's expected. You know. You you help your neighbors. You you have their back because you know, like when you're in a pinch, they're gonna help you. And I think that sense of community within that that world is so it gives people in such a hard lifestyle a sense of security knowing that you have a little backup, you know. And I think they get a bad rap, you know, from time to time. I and I and I don't think it's it's it's like a malicious thing. I think people just don't understand it. And I think if you've ever ingrained yourself into that that culture and the end, just seeing how they treat the land, I think you would really understand. And it's just like educating more than anything for people. But I mean, I've watched these guys, you know, cry and bleed over this land like my family. And at the at the end of the day, they're feeding people. You know, it's like feeding people to survive. And I a tremendous respect for those people, you know, and the farmers, and because at the end of the day, you know, the commodity markets kind of it's kind of the shitter, you know, and it's like people are really trying to survive, and you know, what would you do to survive? You know, like you're not gonna you know, like I think they get a bad rap and away of people think that they're just out there to let their animals over graze. And I was like, at the end of the day, man, like, if your animals aren't doing good and fat and happy, if your animals aren't happy, you're not gonna do good. Your calves are gonna come and wigh in light. And so it's you've got to really have your finger on the pulse of what the land is doing and what the animals are doing and how they reacting like happy animals. And I mean it never ends with a rancher. There's no like, oh I get the day off. No, man, Like I watched my brother and he's a very forward thinker r C. And he just has so many ideas. But what I've watched him, my dad, my grandpa build, and my dad add to and my brother just like it's say, he's like he's like the honing stone, right, he's just put that perfect edge on the ranch. All the fields are beautiful, like, no mono cropping, all natural grasses. The cows are happy, like everything is just in in flow. And I think when you have that flow, it's a beautiful thing, you know, but it's comes at a cost, you know, Like and that was one of those things for ranchers, you know, the ranch always comes for Yeah, Like it's not like your family. It's not your wife, it's not your kids, it's the ranch because you have all those mouths to feed you. It's your responsibility for all those animals to not suffer and do well. So if there's eneor train wrecks like you you have, like it could be your your anniversary. Man, you could be at dinner and there's a ship show going on the ranch. Like I know, what my brother is gonna pick like he has to. That's just responsibility. But um, it breaks my heart to to see the commodity market and and a lot of these guys starving just because you know, there's people lining their pockets and you know, the guys that hold the cow that's whole life get paid a miniscule amount of the guys that are you know, but you're in the processing plants, like it's a it's a crazy unfair imbalance, and yeah, it has to change, you know. It's like the food system is so broke, and it see it seems like that like you you spend this time. I've talked to other ranchers and kind of pick this up and so it's like my version of what I'm hearing is like you you developed this empathy and this compassion for the animals and the land, and it's connected. But then on the other side, there's there's another side of the coin where you have to make money that they are literally your cash cows. But you have this empathy for their situation and the land that they need and the land that you need, and you have this value system. But at the other side there's this you know, devil on your shoulder, saying you have to make money. This is the way you do have to live. You do. And I think, you know, if you can incentivize people to uh do this regenerative ranching and practices, and it would be lucrative. I mean, we're talking like changing changing the system essentially, and there's people doing it. But I mean, if if you're a rancher and you're selling commodity right now, your cows are worth nothing. So it's like, you know, kind of like sourcing regionally. Delivering locally is like the template. My brother has this crazy you know, he has so many ideas and he's really like working on this. You know, he he loses sleep over this at night because you know, our businesses, you know, we sell direct to the customer. We do a little wholesale and and the business is good, you know, but it's not all about us. It's like, you know, we'll be okay. But I want to like see my neighbors do well. I want to see the whole community, Like how do you change everything? Like you need to see everybody that's going out there and losing sleep and stressing over finances and losing their ass and still having the work seven days a week, like you you have to like there there has to be a point where those guys are being rewarded and like being able to survive. It's not like they're asking for a lot. You know, there's a gap there. And I think you're probably your brother and you generationally are probably in a position where over the over your grandfather's life and your dad's life, things change so rapidly, our food systems change. The way we're like ranchers related to the food system have with their place changed rapidly. Now there is and we've talked about this on the show last week with Diana Rupp and Rob Wolf and the other other shows where we talk about impossible Burgers and what they want to do with the landscape. We we kind of cover all of that, but here we are like, you're an actual rancher. You're not some intellectual dude living in Boston or or some you know, theorists at n y U or you don't work at you know, in Hong Kong for impossible Burger, Like you're on the land, you see this ship, you know what's going on, and so there has to be generationally for you that I feel like it's a huge opportunity because things are changing, things can change, things will change, there's new ideas. It's a it's a huge opportunity. And and it's like I think our generation and these people informed. I mean, it's our responsibility. I truly think that. And um, I think the food system is so broken. I think everybody should be able to eat healthy. I don't think it should be like this thing of of class and it's expensive to eat healthy, you know, and there's all this dogshit at the bottom of the shelf that you know, if you don't make enough money, like that's what you're eating, and that there's so the underlying problems there. And I think it's like it has to be simple though, you know, and and it is simple, but you know, it's like always easier said than well. It's like we've this in our conversation about this kind of stuff. There's these large scale solutions that's what impossible. Burger plant based meats are like, hey, we're gonna wipe out out animal agriculture altogether through this through technology, through progression, through taking away basically taking a system that isn't working and instead of improving upon it, making it more local as you suggest in other folks that have backed for genderve agriculture suggests we're going to erase it from being, We're going to replace it with what essentially is a monoculture. Would have to be some sort of monoculture, And like what happens to the natural lands, you know, like that there's there's there's existential cost and all that, and I think, you know, we aren't God, and we can't just make these decisions. You know, it's like really digging in and seeing how nature provides. In nature, the system works, and I think that's what you really have to start looking at all, Like the whole book is there, we just got to read it. And I think people are, you know, are are beginning to be more open to that and like asking about where your food is coming from and and being more open to like cattle maybe aren't so bad on the land, you know, like this nutrient cycling and sequestering carbon and all these things that like everybody's been fighting over. But it's like, you know, it's it's it's it's a divisional thing, but it's like we all want the same thing at the end of the day, Like we want earth to survive and thrive. We want our race to survive and thrive. And you know, don't overthink it. You know it works. You know, listen to her, you know. And that's always been something that I've I've you know, finger on the pulse of of the earth and whatever I've made doing, I listened to it. I listened to like what's going on around me. I'm not trying to force it or like project anything onto it. And I think that is so important. Man. Are you ever like you ever scared for the community that you came from, like fear for for their future all the time? Man, I see it. You see people like it's hard times, man. And I'm not saying it's just the ranching community. I think everybody's having hard times right now. And you know, if you see your neighbor like struggling, like help him, you know, Like it's been such a weird thing with you know, and the masks and not seeing people smiles and just seeing people's terrified eyes. Like that's something I really realized and like, man, that's not that's not normal for humans. Like we need that, we need that love and compassion and embracement. And I think it's just you know, it's like maybe a little hippie dibbie, but she's gotta like spread love, you know, like give people that because that's that's what truly needs to be done right now, you know. Yeah, and it's good to see that you that you guys are thinking of solutions and you know, like what Carter Country meets. We need to explain kind of what that is and and then talking about is it is that scalable? Is that a part of a solution for your community, ranching community. I believe that it's you know, what we're creating Carter Country me is. You know, we have a we have an amazing you know, I'm in the big Horn basin there's twenty thousand head of cattle. Not saying my cows are any better than my neighbors, Like they all eat the same thing, you know, and we we provide a great product, this beef. You know, we've we've we were just selling direct to consumer now, which I mean obviously it was a perfect time to launch our online store during this pandemic. We literally like like we've been going wholesale for like six years and then you know, we had a really good team together now and we were able to go online direct and it was a perfect time. But the whole idea behind this is creating a template that we can place in other communities, other ranching communities, and and it basically is just like giving the rancher selling direct consumer, giving the rancher a premium for his product guaranteed, like buying our neighbors cows, processing them locally and then giving them to the people. And I think if we could take that, you know, so we didn't have to worry about come out a d and he could just like, oh, well, I know I'm getting this next year, not like wondering if he's gonna get paid. You know. It's like really and my brothers like the wizard behind all of this, and he could go way more in depth than I can. But the overall gist is just like creating a template that's gonna work, not just intensely, it's gonna work everywhere, you know. And I mean it's it's a lot of work in progress. But we have great companies we work with um Yet he's been huge for us. You know. We we did a collaboration with them, shipping in their coolers, and I can't I can't speak highly enough of how they've really stepped up and supported us and and backed us, and I mean open more doors for me in my career than I can even explain just across the board. And I think it's bridging that gap and like not you know, not telling somebody what to do, but just like showing them maybe how I do it, and like what works, because you're not gonna like yell at somebody and convince him to do something, you know, it's like show him. Well, it's like, you know, the ranch commun it's it's it's a service community. They're servicing the food system right there, creating this food and they're they're thinking, I'm gonna get value for this product I'm creating. They're not marred. I've never been a rancher. Like I'm great at marketing. I don't have time. They don't have time. They don't have time. Man. It's it's been a perfect storm with my brother and myself because he always stayed on the ranch, created an amazing family with his wife Andrea and his three little boys, and he stayed there and it has been their grinding since I've been off, you know, traveler and galibant the world rich people stuff. Uh No, I'm just kidding kind of, but we'll get into some of that. I get, you know, I've been able to really bridge the gap with um his knowledge of an authentic rancher, my knowledge of growing up on a ranch and understanding but then also bringing like my world of of insanely good marketing in the snowboarding industry and action sports and like putting these two worlds together, and like that's why, Like I look at my team that or our team that we've built for card Crunchy Meats, and it's like Sean black Well, he was my ext team manager that Arbor, who was an amazing marketing like he built Arbor up like over the past five years and super successful. Tina Goff who's behind the scenes, she worked at Arbor. She's all of our like numbers and like crunching and like distribution. Uh Nate Singer who we met through another one of my sponsors, who's our our butcher who's consulted on on everything that we do beef wise, like super talented from Wyoming. Met him in Denver, Asher Coles, who's like he's Sean. They have a marketing agency, black Holes, and and it's like he's a photographer videographer editor, and so like bringing those worlds together has just like this perfect storm of like marketing and and it looks clean and it's just like we complement each other. Well that's good. I mean, I was just pulling up your website. Your brother says on here. Our goal is to create a new food model that incorporates our regecative land and ranching practices with sustainable delivery options to deliver the highest quality beef directly to your doorstep. Yeah, and bad and and and the thing is it's expensive. You know, it's like expensive to do this, Like people need need to understand that it's expensive to create food. And like the meat is expensive. I'm not gonna lie, Like it's expensive, and that's the problem. So it's like how do we lower those costs but yet still be able to survive? You know? And I think that's the model. And um, that goes against what we've you know, in your in your dad's lifetime, my dad's lifetime, what we built with processed food, and and that the processed food economy was like economy of scale, How much how much of this can we create? How quickly can we get it out there? And how many people will eat it, and then it's got to be if if, if they're going to eat it at this scale, it's got to be the cost has to be driven down so more people will buy it. And here we are, and that goes against what you're talking about, which is I have to work hard for this. I have to make I want to make this quality. And what more, what's more important to be a quality environment than our food system? The most important. I could have this chair, I could sit and cold fall a parble. I'm sitting in it, and I would be upset, but I just get a new one. But if I'm eating something that is not like we have not invested into it and put everything we can into it. Listen, you only have one problem when you're hungry, and I mean that's just that, that's it. And so I think, yeah, I don't I don't know what the solutions are. But searching, you know, and having our c On the other end, man like his his mind, it's always going it's like yeah, but it's good. It's good. Listen, to come from like you said, come from a ranching family, come from a ranch community, and kind of be able to see see more, to see more than just tensely more than just as to look and see the culture and see how the society is moving and see how you know, our economy is moving and be able to move within it and still make a good business. It is pretty amazing given where you are. Right, it's been good, man, it's been good, you know, and it's uh, it's rewarding to see, you know, and I mean feeding people quality food and like it just feels really good, you know. And we we do a bunch of like, you know, anytime we can help donation to foundation that we believe in. Man, we'd like get on that, like help people, like everybody's hungry, you know. And so it just boils down to being good, being kind, respectful, you know, I don't know. I mean it runs through how many business has you involved into You'll never be able to count. I'm involved in a lot of business, see like there Like like so I'm an approach CBD water. You gave us your feeding us some sort of what was they giving you, like a gel thing out of a pack? Hanawan? They make this amazing like botanical supplement. Hanawan is amazing and they source all their and they source all their ingredients from like India and Bhutan. My friend Joel is like, he's an amazing I mean, it's really league ad product. And I've just like curated my sponsors through things I can really talk about and it's not for the paycheck. It's like what do I believe in? You know, like because I think it reflects in like my priorities and things that that I want my life. And I'm like, heck, man, I want to bacon sponsor. How do I do that? I got one man, Tender Belly, Like I met these guys, I met these sponsors. I was like, man, they make the best. So like Tender Belly, I'm not involved, but like those guys, you know, the north Face has been with me since I've been on the north Face Global team for oh Man twelve years. Ish Um Arbor Snowboards um involved in another company, uh protect and it's this amazing um sunscreen company that's that's that's coming out. Yeah, so Mark Keeley's involved in that, and so like those guys kind of brought me in. I'm really excited about that. Good dudes, Um, I mean there's just kind of a big list. Dude, like trigger, what do you do? How do you do it? What are you doing? Do you slow down a little bit? Maybe? Know? You know what what I'm what I'm good at is saying no and I'll just check out And how did you come hang out with us? One of the what a lot of stuff going on, you know, one of the excuses of being like a rancher. It's like the greatest thing with all like everybody trying to get ahold of me. I'm like, man, I'm just I'm busy. Man, I'm ranching, and so like everybody, they're not pissed. They know I'm like playing Xbox or something. And even if I'm not ranching, I'll just be like, yeah, I'm busy, man, Like I don't trail with cows or something like. They're like, okay, yeah, we understand, Carter. You must just like get it before every morning and just work so hard. I'm like, yeah, hell yeah I do. I'm in my stretch stretchy pants. Is like had to go shoot my bow a little bit. I don't know, dude. It's like I think it's important to to make the calls and what I do, and I think I've been really good at you know, I've gotten better at it and saying no, and just understanding my capabilities and my bandwidth, so I'm not like just just killing my battery. Have to recharge and like for me, isolation and nature is so important in me recharging my battery. And I've always been like a kid like that. I'm like, uh, you know, introvert, but extrovert. I think it's called it amnivert or something. I just heard something that make that up right now, let's go with it. But it's I really love you Google that please, I really love being around people on it. But a man, I need my like solitude and and just being out there. I'll go walk around the desert all day by myself and grip my dirt bike out there. I might have got that from my brother too. He's pretty smart to learn lots of words and ship. I was like crepuscular, pucular. I like to make things up. This is from time to time as well as long as you say with confidence, like people like what are you gonna? Sound great? You're gonna it's all it's all confidence. But yeah, man, but I think like called the Guthrie. Oh boy, if I can't really know, I can't. I wish I could have gu three on um Yeah, So I just want to say this to you, and I think like part of why I want people to get to know you before I got to actually know the last couple of days, because I knew kind of from so many people that knew you, and so many people that that spoke about your energy and like what you bring to the table. And then you start to see, you start to see and hear and feel your energy and passion for stuff, and then you take it a step further, like all the relationships you have with all these really important, really influential people across the board, man, and you've turned that equation into a life. All these all these absolutely incredible people are fucking sucking up your energy and doing cool stuff. You're doing it together, You're doing it. You know, you have stories of of sailing the world with Ian Walsh, right, Travis Rice, Travis Rice, but Ian Yeah, Ian to Ian's a good homie. Yeah, you've got good justin timber Lakes at homie. Yeah, j T, j T. We gotta get him shooting the ball. Shout out, Um, he's probably listening, that's JD. But that's one thing I was picking up as you're telling all these stories. It's not you're not name dropping. It's just your life. You've taken your energy the way you do things and and and impacted you know, countless people that are are themselves quite impactful. I mean, yeah, I don't don't. I'm not gonna take credit for any of those guys. I would expect you to play. I'm like, wow, man, I like, uh, I have nothing's happening, and I have an extraordinary, extraordinary group of people, um names and unnamed, you know, and I'm I'm very fortunate to surround myself. And you know, it's a choice, you know, like I don't have time for for bullshit. I don't have time for people that are going to dream me and suck my energy. Um, I really want to about be around people that care and and because I'm a loving person man, like I really like, if you're my friend, I want to give my all, like I'll do anything for you, Like I'm I'm yes, yes, sir, yes, let's do this until it's no. You know, I'm hinding intensely branching. But um, I think it's really important when you surround yourself with and if you surround yourself with negativity, then you know, that's what you're going to project. And I think I really try to be around positive people. And I mean not that it's all the time, and I try to uplift people as well, but man, negativity is just a cancer. Like that ship kills me when people are just negative. I'm like, man, this is beautiful, like you're breathing, we're outside, Like your priorities are all off, man, because like living the present and enjoy what we have. This is an amazing ride. And it could be just like gone so quick, man. And I've seen it, like people just gone and there's no rhyme or reason. You're just gone, dude. It's like get busy living, you know, dude, I would tell you. And that's it's a common thread of people don't hear that it's successful, not only successful in the way that like what they do, but how they live and how they move through the world and how they constructed their life. Right. And we we had Matt best On and Omara Vila. I know you kind of know of those guys, you know what they what they're about, right, And I like, and I was we were talking about this in other episodes. I was I came into that kind of wanting to construct this narrative about the gun culture and social media and get these guys to talk about and it's these are issues that we need to talk about. But there's there that they're incredibly successful people that have triumphed in ways that you have to. And they said what you said, like, hey, positivity, man like, take anything, any challenge, and turn it into something that will drive you forward. And culturally we're struggling with that, man Like, as a country, we're struggling with that. Yeah, I agree. I think you know, the earlier you can learn how to take a beating, the better because that's life. Like, it's the most unpredictable thing and cruel thing, but it's how you respond to it. Well, yeah, respond and how you come out of a situation. It's not like you know, you can be in these like really horrible situations you're like, oh life on this is like this is so bad, But don't let that affect you on the outcome, you know, like that's your choice, Like you can control that, you can control your emotions, um and and it's just being conscious of that. And like, really, self reflection is a huge thing for me, and like looking at yourself and being like, well, what am I doing? Like listening I and that just comes back to being open, like I don't know, I don't think it's good to read comments because it's so much negativity projected and I'm just like that I don't have like I'm not going to live let that live in my head like an off time for that, you know, And I think just kill people with kindness, you know. It's just like it's de de escalates, Like people don't even like it's so easy to react on anger as well, like yeah, I just get piste and yell back. But if you're just like, hey man, like you need to hug or something, and first, like some rancher, you're like all gnarly. Like my brother was like, hey man, you need a hug, and you would not expect that, but like you watch it just people are like, oh, maybe that should be nicer. We're just in bear camp and you can't like it's it's it's the time that we're in. You can't help but talk about there's a lot of times where you know, I know you didn't post black square. I post the black Square. But the point is kind of there's times when there's news. There's always bad news. Right, there's always things that kind of are out there that you can pick up one you can they can be part of your life's narrative, or they can just be like out happening in the ether. But now I just feel like there's so much going on, there's so much intensity around these this negativity that we're talking about in bear Camp. We're hanging around in the most beautiful meadow in the world talking about this stuff. Because one, it's important and relevant, but it's it's also an interesting thing to try to solve in your own personal life. But then for people around we care. We care about people, We care about what's going on. You care when you see people hurting and you know, responding in these ways, and you know it's social media for me, isn't the platform to talk about that, you know, because you know it's just it's godless, you know, social media is so I don't know, I've just really it just I haven't been into it late. Honestly, it's like worse than the news now because it's like a really a lot of negative and I think the more you feed into that negative energy and and and it's easy for me to say living in Wyoming and being able to go walk outside and like put my feet in the dirt and just really see the beauty in this world. But uh, I think that's the disconnection is is people aren't taking their shoes off and putting their feet in the dirt. You know, you're standing on cement, You're ungrounded. There's a lot of things that are going on that are feeding this and people like, I mean, people have a right to be pissed, like funk man Like, there's some things going on that But I always try to put myself in somebody else's shoes and see why why are you? Why are you acting this way? And and I never have an opinion on something that I know nothing about. So for me to even say anything that I know nothing about, I mean, that's just disingenuous. So I just try to talk my truth and talk about things that I know because I'm not I'm not from the city. I've been in the city. I know ship about the city. Man, Like, all I know is like they have pretty good food. What about all those hipsters and bosm. I'm like, they have good foods, man, and the best they have the best restaurants, man. And I love I love diversity, man like I love diversity. I love seeing all every walk of life. That's why I love traveling in like airports like Amsterdam Airport. Man, Like you should sit there and you see every everybody on this in this planet, but there's one common factors, like we're all walking on two legs, dude, we're all like the same tribe here. And like the unity thing. I know it's so hard, but I I would love to see more unity with them, just like people seeing each other for what we are and not like did these division and in your tribe and my tribe. It's like I bet if we were all hungry together, we would all sit down at the table and we'd all eat and we could all find common ground to talk about something. And I think, you know, breaking bread with someone that it taught is a totally different view of yours. But not like in a way of I want to change your mind. I want to know your mind. Like I'm gonna give you my mind and you give me yours, and I just help me understand. And I think that's just how you learn. Don't ever go in with expectations and assumptions man Like, assumptions are generalizations. Assumptions are the most dangerous thing, and I think that's like the precursor to discrimination. Yeah, you can't, like, you can't generalize, dude, because we're so like multi I mean, there's so many multifacets to the human race and just everything. It's like everybody's different. Everybody has the mind and the soul, and it's just like to to call people one thing and that's what you aren't put them in a box. I was like ugly man day dress. Well, you and your family like you. If there's anybody in the world who could have wanted to be a victim or or grow up angry and frustrated about their situation, it's a third generation rancher, intensely wyoming running cattle acres because it's a system that's not it's breaking down for you. Yeah, and I mean, but I mean, honestly, dude, I am. I mean, I don't want to sound like a victim at all, but because I mean I was born into that ranch. I didn't work for that ranch. My dad and my grandpa did. And I was like that generation risk there was I wouldn't have given to me. We earned it. But I don't feel like I've even come close to earning that ranch. I mean we really nobody earned owns anything in the world, Like if you really look at it, like stand back, we're all here renting ship. Like we don't own nothing. Like you can have a big ranch and all this stuff, we're here renting it because you're temporary. Man. Every buddy, our buddy Dug Durren has a T shirt. It's not as it's our turn that it's exactly right. It's right, it's exactly right. And I think when people are like mine, that's mine, I'm like for now, you know. But I mean I feel like extremely privileged to even have grown up working as hard as I did. But I mean I grew up with opportunity, man, Like I had that security of that ranch no matter how hard it was. Maybe it was a burden like given you know, I was like, ah, sho, do I want to ranch? But I wasn't someone there was like I got nothing else, man, I got the street and I got these shoes. So for me to speak upon that, it's really hard for me because I don't know what that's like because I did have a lot of a lot of like opportunities through that and and and still to this day. But I just recognized them, and I anytime I saw an opportunity, I recognized it and I was like, I'm going to do everything that I can to like make this thing, to capitalize on that. Man, Yeah, you plant those seeds. What do you think about your brother's kids and you don't have a good kids? I gotta slap them around from timetimes? What's uncle? What's Uncle? Mark? Look, dude, I'm cool, I know it. So like I'm like the dude that rolls up and sits at the kids table, Like I'd rather sit the kid's table and go jump on the trampoline talk some ship with the kids. Like that's that's my jam, you know, like all the uncles. You know, I'm I'm still like single and I don't have a I've kind of devoted my life to snowboarding at this point, and it's, uh, it's easier that way. And maybe I'm um, um, you know, I I'm kind of selfish too in a way. I'm I'm honest, but I love being an uncle and I love my sister's kids, both my sister's kids, um, And it's really cool to like go out and work with the kids because I grew up working next to my family, you know, and that's a that's a very special thing when you can bleed, just get dipped and ship with your family, you know, work hard and understand what it takes you builds like this bond that you just unbreakable. And um to do that with my nephews and stuff now is so rad. Like I take my uh my sister's kids, Carter and Kendrick and Elizabeth, her daughter, and I'll take them down like when my dad is like loading a bunch of his crazy cows and Brandon and stuff, and they're just with me, and they're like old enough now. Carter's Liz is like seventeen, Carter's fifteen, Kendas like thirteen, but their hands because they grew up around cattle, they understand how livestock move and work. And and then I'm just like standing in the cradle like shorting all these cows and we're working. I was like, this is awesome, man, But this is what it feels like to have kids. I guess like kids that you like taught something, you know, they worked on because they're just it's really it's it's really rewarding. Yeah, and then they think I'm pretty cool at least I think they do. Maybe I'm just like I think, look at this guy, look and then look at this selfie. But beyond that, like I've really, I've really tried to open their minds to like the rest of the of the world, because Tensive is an amazing spot. Don't get me wrong, but it's like it's like anywhere you grow up. It's like it's one place, you know. I'm like, man, like, think outside the box. I've traveled the world, and and I'll bring him to like the my movie premieres or whatever, to just see him experience this other side because it's a hundred and eighty degrees of difference and to just like maybe spark something in them to make them like feel what I felt and just be like, man, really, if you put your mind to something like you can you can kind of do anything. The mind and perseverance and sacrifice and just hard work. That's a powerful thing. And not giving up. But that's what the ranch taught me. It's just you can't, like you can't give up. Like, where's the solution? My brother always says, He's like, I'm not looking I'm looking for solutions here, all right, man, Like, what's the solution. Okay, this is it. Let's let's move forward. That didn't work, We're gonna do this. And then it just helps you think outside of the box. And I don't know, just I guess easier said than done, you know, Like you know, those those kids, they're they're around, So what's their generation going to go through? Like what, man, what are they going to have to deal with? Oh? Man, I can't even imagine. I can't even imagine, you know, because we do live and I don't want to bring all the negativity on this on this time we live in because we live in the best time to I mean they say we live in the best time to be alive economically. Um, like there's you're not looking over your shoulder, like most people aren't looking over their shoulder, like wondering if the boogeyman is gonna come get them, you know, and you can push a button and get anything you can order Amazon. I think it would be simpler to just be a hunter gatherer. But I see all these outside things that I can't understand within the younger generation of like social media and having all of that stress of the information overload to like navigate that like as a fourteen year old kid. Like, dude, I remember it was hard enough to navigate when I was at that age or even you know what her age, teenagers, young kids, But now they have all this information overload and load, and I think of it is negative. So how do you stay positive if you aren't just going outside and being present in nature and like turning all that off and you're not getting a dose of that, man, And and the majority of people are just looking at their iPhones and computers and like that's where everything is. Like everything is so easy, but it's not easy. Man, there's a price all that ship. I don't know, dude, Like I wouldn't want to be a kid, you know, And that's why I like struggle. Like I would love to have kids. You know, I gotta have a wife first, but you know I would love I mean, it's a beautiful thing. It's like the best thing that a person can do. That's what my dad always says. The best thing person could do is like you have children, you watch them, you watch them grow and learn. But like right now, man, I don't see how it kind of plays out. You know, give me give me a little time here, man, there is a I like you say that there's a price to pay, because we don't think of it that way. We don't think of like all the progress and technology. We think of it as only progress. We think of it is only something that's moving us forward, that's making things easier. But there that it has a price, It has an exit mostly an existential price, but a physical price. I mean people are in blue blue glass, blue light glasses because they're looking at screens too much. That's the like a physical price to pay. But but the existential mental price that you pay from like immersing yourself in a world that isn't real is immense, man, it's got to be. There's there's a give and take, man, Like there there's a balance with everything, and I just see it really not balanced right now, you know, like in certain places there it is balanced and you see those people happy. You know. I think I think less is more, you know, like I think if you if you feed into the monster, the machine, it just wants it just wants to consume m you. It wants you to consume all of everything it's spewing out and just eating up and and buy and you need something new, and like, oh this thing is kind of getting a whole throat out. It's like we're talking about our old people, man like elderly, Like we live in a society where we like they just like let them just like put them in a nursing home. Man, I'm like, whoa, that's crazy to me. These are the the why is this? This is wisdom? There's so like lived life experience, Like those people should be living side by side these kids and teaching them, teaching us, you know. And so like we talked about our kids growing up, and if we're not leading by example and we're putting our parents in a home, like what are they seeing? They're seeing that that's okay, So why would they respect you? You know? And I think there's a huge respect division right now, and I think it has a lot of not like it's actions, man like actions like what we're doing, you know. And um, I have a huge respect for communities that like there are communities that take care of their family, lived together, like grandma lives with the the kids. Man Like, that's so cool. Yeah, I think that's so needed. That's what we need. We need sense of community and purpose. I feel strong about that too. I was telling you breakfast today shot out the Phase Cafe and Literal that place, blowing it and did some stuff like talk about somebody who just just it does her. She just does her. I never met her before. She's like, I just kind of like cook feel I'm just like I just throw some on the plate. Did I love her? It was like Phase Choice. She's like, face Choice, what does that? Whatever I want? And I was like, I love that. You're just like I want Phase Choice to give me that. I want you to have a good I was impressed. I was impressed. I was eating thinking about that waffle I was eating. Now I totally lost my track. Yeah, well I told my dad my dad's retired, and I was like, man, you know, I think what I want and I want I want to be very clear, is for you spend all your money living the way you want to live, in the way that you've earned to live. However many years you have left time being you know the big factor for everybody, And then come stay with me, Just come on and then come stay with me, but but only when you're done doing and if you if you want to come live with me, and that's what you want out of the next twenty years of your life, and that is also something that I want because it's just second. And it's also just you gotta pay it back, man, how much? And that's one thing I think about when we can talk about the culture, Like I feel enfranchised. I feel like I owe a debt to not only my family, but my country and the people around me, my community, the hunting community. I have a debt to the hunting community for what the people in and have done for me. So I feel indebt. And that's why I gotta work for that, you know. So there's there's part of that. I would hate to have to meet someone that doesn't feel that that the field that was disenfranchised, that doesn't feel a debt, that feels like they've been screwed over and left behind, you know that. That's that's real, I agree, And it happens all the time. Man. It's you put yourself in their shoes and understand that, you know. Yeah, it's tough, I mean, and and and part of it is to see for me to see I don't have anything to pass. I'm like, I'm building something to pass down to my kids, you know, and I don't but to see a ranch that will just as like kind of like the beating heart of like your people. Man, that's cool, beautiful place. Man, I love it. I gotta come down country. We don't get much company down to sixty. I've never been to Jackson either. I've gotta get down there. Jackson's cool. There's a lot of people in Jackson. We'll take your snowboarding. I've done that one like oncewice. I think gonna be pretty, but I'll do anything like well, it's always hate to like teach people to snowboard too. It's like I'm not like a teacher. I'm pretty patient. I know, like one thing, like the best thing to do. Like like a boyfriend wants to teach a girlfriend how to snowboard. I'm like, you listen, dude, get her a lesson and do not teach her because you're just get pissed. Give her, get her lesson, get her like up, or give somebody a lesson. But I actually took Dudley John Dudley snowboard. We had a great time. But that guy is crazy talent. So he's an athlete. Dude, he's like this monster. He's like huge, he's like you know, and it was so funny. It was like stump and and Trevor and and Dudley. We went up to Brighton because he was this like trigger event and and I was like, man, I want to snowboard. I was like, all right, we'll set you up. So I got I got him like this huge board from good Or. It was like a Gooch pro model from Arbor. I was like, what's your biggest board? And so I got this board. The first round it was so funny because the seat set up a stance and it was super it was super narrow, and I was like, oh boy. I was like, your stance is waiting there and he he really is like, oh my legs are so tired, like this is this isn't good. And I was like, man, let's just wine your stands. And by like a couple runs me where he was. I was like kind of blown away. But then he you know, obviously kind of gave me the archery, taught me the archery game, built me a bow, and like that guy, I can't I can't thank him enough for for what he's done and why he just does for people. Man, Like he's such as built a whole thing. Man, He's like he's such a he just builds custom bows for other people and sends him around. Was like yeah, yeah, I mean I hate to ask for anything, but I really like to get into that. You know, like like we were talking about camp that he's a guy where there's such a void in the archery space. There's such you know, Joe's worked as a bow tech. There's a there's a void of I want to get into archery and guys like you and me and everybody that wants to promote it to say like, go do it. And then somebody goes there to local like not I'm not knocking local bow shops or pro shops, but the but it's hard. It's hard to get someone to to take the time with you that it. I mean, it takes a lot of timid dating to go in like it's it's like a humbling experience like learning something new. And that's why I really love it. But you go into like okay, imagine go in there. You're like, I'm the cook, I'm the coop guy. Hit guys out in the lineup, like trying to like what's the flushing? Is that cool? If I have water wings on? Man, it's just cool. It's just when they're like, don't do that, what's the lineup. What, Oh, it's my wave right smack uh. But yeah, man, it's like, did you think about surfing and golf and things like that. If you're bad at golf, the thing you might the thing that you might do is, you know, hit somebody with the boy, you know, hit the guy in a golf car with a ball or something, right, hit a ball and somebody else, Yeah, or get too drunk and just pass out by the bye. I feel like I have some ideas for golf to make it way cooler. We'll get into that sloating ball or something like that target shooting while you're going, you know, on the green. Um. But that those things have no like they have consequences. The only consequences are more of like a personal thing like in archery, the consequences of not being I felt this consequences all the time, even as somebody's hunting my whole life. I feel them all the time, Like you didn't prepare for that. You fucked up. Oh man, you suck and now that animal is limping around. It's the worst feeling in the world because you do know it's your fault, like you could have done more. And archeries like that, Yeah, I think you apply yourself. It's like the respect for the animals you're hunting and like putting, like being proficient with that bow, you know. And I think that just comes with practice and you know, discipline and like shooting a lot, getting like and don't not taking something like don't do something you know you can't do, Like there's no guessing like maybe maybe I got here twenty yards, which I think I got him feel yeah, And that's that's that's that's the thing that Dudley has that like he has. The part of him that is a service to everyone is that like, hey, there is a process here, there is a way, there is this, there is a craft, and you can't just you can't just want to do it. You have to put put yourself into it and apply yourself. Man and his school and knock online is so rad. Like that helped me ass Like I don't watch you too, but I like watched all the there's so many little little things with you. I mean, you gotta learn energy and the like how energy is applied and you know how things move through air. You know, like all the things you kind of have to learn to understand of it. So if it makes it cool and then on the other end of it, if you're really good, you can get some meat. But like an angle, be pursuit and don't have any expectations. Do not do not. But I think you've we've talked about kind of we've swept through like all the badass ship but we got to talk about the one. Like it's not prominently that the one thing in your life that completely sucked, but it's a thing that I think, Ah, I'm glad we can talk about it because not a lot of people can talk about it. Yeah, I mean it was a defining moment, man, Like it was a defining moment, you know, like, yeah, a lot of people I don't know. You know, I have I have three felonies, you know, hanging out with a felon. I'm a felon. Man, I'm a felon. I got uh we got cross ways, you know, it was it was a it was a crazy, crazy time of my life. You know, got cross ways with the federal government and they spanked us pretty hard. You know. It was a Yeah, I mean a little backstory was you know, growing up hunting my whole life, you know, Um, that was that was my passion, like my whole family's passion, my grandpa, like everybody this was, you know, and really like growing up respecting the animals and understanding how the whole system works and being being a poor rancher, you know. And then so when I was about twenty years old, and we were great elk hunters, you know, I shot my my first elk when I was twelve years old and it was old moment and just hunted all the way through high school. Loved hunting, guns, everything that was my That was my passion. Man, that was my life. And then I started pursuing the snowburn thing, still ranching, doing some other things. And my brother he graduated college, so he came back to the ranch and I mean the ranch, Like, dude, you ain't make any money, like he was poor, and so we're an opportunities, like hey, I'm gonna I'm gonna be an outfitter, Like we're good at hunting, like let's let's do some outfitting on the ranch, and like the elk that we had amazing elk hunting, like let's do this. And so obviously I was like, man, that sounds like a pretty good idea, Like I can make a little cash in in the in the fall, and so we started out. You know, he was the outfitter and I got my guide license and and the first couple of years, you know, it's pretty tough, like because it's a draw, you know, and so we'd have a couple hunters, and like it was like it just wasn't you know, it needed to be more. Well then, you know, obviously he met this these guys from Oregon and they were like, hey, guys, like, well, can we buy your landowner tags? Like we'll pay you and then we'll just come out and we'll do the hunt. And like they're gonna pay him. It wasn't crazy. I don't even know how much money it was, but I was getting like I'll cut a grand fall cash to go work for like you know, a month guiding. And then they'd have a few guys come out and and so the deal was if they didn't draw, they could use one of our landowner tags because since we had all that land and if nobody knows about landowner tax, it's like in Wyoming that you cannot sell your land under tax, and we need that, you know. But like growing up in a small community like we grew up, and it wasn't Like I'm not gonna say it wasn't done. It wasn't done. You know, like people subsidize their ranch and certain things like during those times too, maybe Southern landowner tax. So but we had become an outfitter and we're like, well, let's try to do it almost by the book. So we'll we'll do these hunts and website and we'll do a few land under tags. So that's what we did. We were were you know, I think you know over because it was your brother, it was my brother and myself. Well my dad wasn't even involved. My dad was like it was his ranch. But so my dad, you know, he'd come up to hunting camp the ground. He he didn't know what was going on. My brother was like the outfitter. He dealt with it. I was the guy and I did a lot of cooking. Arc did mostly guiding as well. So we had this kind of like this idea that like the land attacks, it was like kind of a misdemeanor and like, I'm not gonna say I never broke the law. We weren't super concerned about it. Just in the environment we were in. You had to comparison to it, like having a couple of beers on the way home from work, because how you thought, Yeah, yeah, it wasn't like it wasn't like a huge deal, Like it wasn't something that was really on my mind. But I knew I was breaking the law. But like in that environment, like as we were, we kind of I wouldn't say lived in a lawless land, but I mean my growing up, my deputy, the deputy sheriff was our football coach. So we were we got had a lot of reins man Like, it wasn't like this super regulated area where they're like, you're breaking the law, You're going to jail. And there was like, man, I you know, I did my share of drinking and getting into trouble as a kid, but there was a lot of just like understanding that these ranch kids are kind of wild and like, well just let him go, you know, like kind of good old boy, let him do his thing. Not that that's any excuse for what we did, but that's how we got in there. I was gonna make it clear to nobody's asking for excuses, just like what's your mindset? Well that was it wasn't a big deal. So this wasn't a big deal. In my mind, but I didn't know it was against law. How much against the law. That was something I did not know. So we go through, you know, we were probably a guide. You know, we guided these dudes for like four or five years, and then they had some friends come out and you know, if they couldn't make the hunt. And granted some of these guys were drawing tags, it wasn't just all land under stuff. I think over the course of eight years, maybe I don't know how the numbers, but it was it was less than eight tags got used, I think. Um. And so in like two thousand and ten, you know, I'm at the top of my my career. I'm traveling the world, I'm riding. I'm like, I'm like, but there was this weird thing in my life. I was like, I wasn't I was happy, but I was like a little unfulfilled, and I was really burnt out on like guiding hunters. I was really burnt out on, Like that wasn't mine anymore. That wasn't for me. That was like hunting seasons coming and now it was for It was like I gotta go guide these guys, like okay, whatever, because they can be kind of you know difficult, and then the client servicing I'm not, like, I'm not a client service guy. So in about two I'll never forget. It was like in in June. June. I mean, yeah, I woke up one morning and there's like six or four federal agents in my my front door, and I was like, whoa, what do we do? And my brother he was out in any inkling and all that. No, I'm like, but I saw a game of fish. I was like, oh, like, what do we do? Like we did something? Like something, something's really bad. I just had this Like it was six and six am. So my brother said, he's out on the tractor at six am out like in the few old he sees like four suburbans, maybe four or five suburbans coming down the road bumper to bumper. Black come in and he has like this ditch in his driveway and he said, these things hit this thing so hard, like they're bouncing like they jumped. And then all these dude jump out with you know, like federal agents guns drawn, boom all over his property and he's way out in the field and he's just starts cruising over in his tractor. He's like, what is going on? Here. It was like a full on raid, Like they had sixty They had sixty agents across the nation. Like they rated every hunter we had ever hunted with. So it was a coordinated Yeah, I was a coordinated effort. They had their you know, they had it dialed. So they came in hot Um and they sat down with me and they're like, what do you know about these you know, start talking to me. I can't remember exactly what the conversation was, but the guys that came in were nice to me. Like, these dudes were pretty nice, you know. And they started to ask me questions and and I was like, yeah, man, like we have this hunting outfitting. He's like showing me pictures. So basically had a website and these animals that were legal they were on our website. So that's how much we knew. Yeah, so we had the website up, we had the animal the legal animals some of them were on there. And they're like, you know, what about about those guys? And I was like, oh, yeah, you know, I was so freaked out. I didn't know what to say, you know, like I kind of admitted to some stuff, but I knew that I just kind of played dumb a little bit too. I was like, I don't know, because I didn't. I knew we were fucked. Like it's some capacity here. So they do their thing and they take my cell phone and they take some stuff from me. And then I was like, whoa, that was crazy. I called my brother, I'm like, dude, what is going on? He's like, and he tells me his story. These guys come in. They dude like he just had two babies in his house, and they walk all over and they take all the and they could do anything they want, right, And they walked over his carpet with muddy boots and took his laptop, took everything, cameras, everything, And I was like, man, I don't know what's going on. Like they told us what's going on. It was illegal hunting, and but I didn't know how much of what the capacity was. And then and then they mentioned felony, and I was like, what do you mean felony? Man? Like, what's like a felon? Like you're talking about me being a felon? Okay, that's crazy. And uh So it went off for like a year and I didn't even know whether to get a lawyer or not. I was like, am I in trouble? Did they just continue to contact? You know, it was kind of silence, but I knew something was like going bad, And like r C lawyered up. I didn't lawyer up. I didn't really know, Like if I was in trouble, I didn't know, but they're building a case. And then and I was like I had these sponsors, dude, and like I didn't tell anybody because nobody knew. But I had this in the back of my head, you know, I was. I was. I knew something was coming down the pipe. Like I wasn't dumb, Like I'm pretty wise. Like do you remember the days during that where you're like getting up in the morning. Man, I didn't sleep and didn't sleep. There was two years where I didn't sleep, you know, I was, but I I it was. It was an amazing experience in the way that I just, man, I had no control, Like I had lost all control of my life. But all I could control was my emotion how I racted, and so I just kind of like went on living man Like. It took me a long time to settle into that. So we go for like a year, you know, I'm killing it at life. I think and then what are you like, would you was there a guilt there? Do you think? Do you think like you? Because you know, like I said, you know you did something wrong. There's nobody out there that hasn't done something. There was there was never an animal that was shot without a tag. That's all I can say. Everything at a tag. And there was less animal shot because the way we were hunting was like, dude, if you had an opportunity at a mature animal, and if you didn't, you know, if you blew that chance. Like there was a lot of guys went home empty handed, but we did. You know, I think we did get some beautiful animals. Um. But so that went on and I just like it was trying to live my life and trying to be normal. I was dating a really amazing person, and you know it was like there was a lot of stress, you know, but on our relationship or whatever. And but well then it was like August the next year, Yeah, we get indicted. I get a letter like they're like indictment, You've got to be at the federal court and this is this is the deal, all right, And I was like, okay, so we did this land order. I know there's some tags. That's just a bad deal. Like I don't, I have no idea what's going to happen. We go into court and they and they indicted my dad too, which was really it was that really hurt because he he wasn't involved in the hunting operation, you know, but like one one day he had come down like we've gotten this beautiful bull, and he was there and he would helped his pack pack it out, so I guess he was involved, you know, and he got a photo with the animal, like you know, he's like take a photo of you know. So anyways, he's involved. He's an accessory. We go to federal court and they're like they just start reading, like we stand up and they just start reading these charges off man. And so what it was all said and done are my brother and myself were indicted on eleven felonies a piece. My dad was indicted on three. I was seeing fifty five years in prison, are seeing each we're facing fifty five years in prison and four point five million dollars and finds a piece and I was like it wasn't even real, man, Like I remember cutting a check that was one. I was like, I should probably get a lawyer before this indictment. So I kind of check for twenty just like my whole savings. To this lawyer. I was like, here you go, man like, I don't know what's going to happen. He's like, you're this is not good. You guys are looking you guys are gonna go to prison. I was like, man like, I'm going to prison for this, like this is crazy. Not like I had no idea that this was a felony. So they indict us on To be clear, the felony comes in Lacey Act violation. Yeah, yeah, so it was those guys taken these illegal and so a couple of the hunters, a couple of the hunters had taken animals back across state lines, violating the Lacy Act. And that's where that's where the fans became involved, because if they had never crossed in the state lines, it wouldn't have been a felony. So that's where it got really cloudy. And I was like, well like yeah, man, like we are in trouble. I'm facing fifty five years in prison, and so like that was that was the game, man Like. I lived at that and then but the thing was like, once that came out then and then it was public knowledge. Then the media got ahold of it, and then they started writing things about it. You know, it's a huge poaching ring like all these things. And I don't know how you define poaching, like maybe I did. Maybe that's what it was. Maybe that's the definition illegal animal taken. Um I I didn't feel like it was, but yeah I did that, and the media butchered us, man, Like it was like this Casper Star Tribune. They were relentless up Joe. I mean it was. It was relentless. And I had a bit of a name in snowboarding, so I mean they were like, look at this guy and then some asshole in snowboarding, like least in the snowboarding media, and then it just blew up. And so I get a call from like one of my huge sponsors. They're like, yo, dude, what is going on? Like I don't know, man, Like, you know, I did some things and I'm in a lot of trouble. Like that's all I can tell you. Like I'm I'm going to continue to do the snowbaring thing, like with or without you guys, Like I understand that, um, this does not look good in on paper, it is horrible, horrible, um. And so that was something I had to navigate and that was a very humbling. I mean I was so vulnerable. I mean I just had my hands out. And then so throughout the next year, you know, I did everything I could, man like if if they asked me for something like the prosecutors that, I was like, man, what do you guys need for me? Like, I will tell you everything, like there's I have nothing to hide, an open book here. And my whole family was that way. So we sat down and we went through this whole process for a year of what they were gonna do with us. And I'm still trying to like juggle my my professional career where it's like I can see it falling apart. My relationship at home is falling apart. Everything is falling apart around me, and I'm and I just kept thinking to myself. I was like, man, I like it may be really prioritize and live in the press because I didn't know if I had a future, because I really thought like I was going to do some prisons. You think, yeah, did you talk lawyer And he was basically like, You're like, I would be really surprised if you don't do time, and I just like it was really hard for me to get comprehend that because I had never I had I didn't have a record, like I've never done anything to be in jail. I've never gotten thrown in jail. I had some minor and fractions as a kid is drinking, but um, it's like, so to go from nothing to like the worst I was, I was it was like my mind did not compute what was happening. Like I was kind of not in denial, but I was like I was just really optimistic. Man, I'm like, I'm not gonna get felonies, dude, I'm just gonna like keep doing this like life's good. But it made me really prioritize my family because during this whole process, they were really trying to turn us against each other, like they're like your brother said. I was like, no, he didn't like that, you know, But I get it. I get why they do that in too, like some bad guys they turn them against each other. But I mean, maybe it's just me and it's my introspect. But like I didn't feel like I was a bad guy. I didn't feel like we were bad guys. You know, I didn't like we you know, it was what it was. Um, that was the most interesting point you said to me. You're like I felt they were doing they were using the tactics that you would want them to use, you want them to you, And you felt like, I'm a good guy, but maybe the bad guys feel that the problem, you know. I mean it's just I mean, poor Mia, It's just just a selfish outlook on it. But um, it was. It was crazy, dude. Like I didn't sleep, but it really got me to this place of of of of calm and patience and just like letting things go and things are gonna happen and there's nothing I can do to control this, and I just let it go. Man. I was like, here we go, Like I'm along for the ride on this one. Man. I was like getting on a plane in turbulent weather flying to South America is like, dude, you have no control, just like sit back and just like take it. And so that's what I did, and I took it, took it. And I think the hardest part was watching the local the local media, the Whirland News, like these guys that that I had all these accomplishments in my career that was like pretty um exceptable, exceptional for that area, like a snowboard coming out, and they would never do anything in the in the paper about me, like I'd reached out and like kind man, it would be cool to do local things. Never reached out. But the minute I am in trouble and this negative news man, they were all up on that and they just just hammered it weakly about my dad and my That was hard to seeing my dad, like I had a thick skin, but like he's like sixty three years old and like grewing up in this community. And they're like, you're a felon, you're a poacher, you're like doing all this stuff, and like yeah, we're charged with that, and I understand, like that's what it looks like. But that was really hard to watch. And then you know, just navigating that, watching him, watching it hurt him, watching it hurt my mother. And that's just the people around me. But like there's one thing, man, like I learned who my friends were. Like people distanced themselves. Man, Like I had contracts coming down the pipe, like I was about to sign with the snowboard company and they were like, yeah, that budget tapped. I understand, I understand, but there were the companies that stook by, like stood behind me. They knew my integrity. People are gonna make mistakes, man Like, people are gonna make mistakes, and as long as you are are accountable for yourself and you admit and you'd move on like everybody else should too. It's like forgiveness is a beautiful thing in the human nature, and I think we're losing that. But so we went through this year of just hell. Man, Like I'm traveling the world and like trying to produce video parts. I have this dangerous job where my mind is not in it. My girlfriend's leaving me, Like I have these opportunities that I can't even like I can't even go after because I'm like so mentally like scrambled and and and then I'm in Japan. I'm like on this amazing trip in Japan with like my best friend and one of my best friends from Norway, where we're snowboarding and doing this project that winner. Everybody's backing me. I know this thing is coming down the pipe, and so we're like going back and forth with the with the FEDS, and like I would sit down with these guys. Like I was driving from tents or from Jackson to Casper to go meet with these guys because trials were coming up for all the other uh the other hunters and all this crazy ship was going on. It wasn't just my life, man, They turned like a lot of people's lives upside down. And and I mean maybe, I mean we deserved it, like we I broke the law man, like it was what it was. And I'm in Japan and I still think that there's a chance and I'm not getting any felonies because felonies to me are like, man, I I'm like thinking all these like things in my head. I'm like, I'm not gonna ever be able to have a gun again, something that I loved so dearly. It's something I grew up with. It's a tool for a rancher. And I'm in Japan doing this project and I just never forget. I was right in the elevator one morning and I get the email from my lawyer and he's like, here's the police bargain, dude, And it was like three felonies, Like all the I got, I was getting three felonies. Um uh, seventy five thousand dollar donations, the Whinman game and fish and um yeah. Then I had to go to court. Then I had to go get sentenced, and I was like, wow, I guess this is this is this is what's happening. Man, there's no like you don't once a plea bargam there, like here you go. What was the felonies? Uh, conspiracy to traffic in illegal wildlife, trafficking in illegal wildlife, and falsifying government documents because I signed my name to a landowner tag one time, and so I didn't understand the falsifying, but I get it, like it's on the tag and it says if you sign this illegally, that's a felony. I committed that felony. Dude, I signed that ship. You know I didn't. Who reads a fine print? I tell you what I read fine print? Now, so then you know my brother is sentence. He plead the same thing. My dad got like a plea with one felony and like I don't remember exactly his his donation finds. So then and I'm like, okay, well at least we got that over. Okay, We're gonna move on. Like now we go to court. Our next step. And that was the thing. It is like I found out I got felonies and my girlfriend left me like within like two weeks. And I don't blame her for leaving me. Dude, I was a dick. I was so stressed out, like I was trying to like juggle all these things. Sponsors were leaving like it was what it was. I was just I was just like way in the storm. I came back from Japan, I had like some crazy sickness that I was just an apartment with no TV. Like every shot I showed up, she was gone. Everything was turned off and I got sick and laid in my bed for three days with like almost died. Well there was a quote that Joe was just showing me that. So it was like this ruin of my life up to this point because I had obviously felt that way at that point. I did at that point, man, And that was when I went to the dude I and when when they rated us, I just earned thirty. That was my thirtieth birthday. It was right before my thirty Like hey man, like dude, it's something like they say thirty, like something changes in your life. Like either way, I was like thirty suck. But it changed, man, Like it changed me and I wouldn't take it back, you know, like I wouldn't like that experience and that those hardships like molded everything that I am right now. And so we go to court and that's the scariest thing, Like we got a chyenne man. Like, here we are in court getting sentenced. I'm still facing fifteen years maximum fifteen years and seven fifty thou dollars in fines. I'm like, dude, like, I hope the judge is cool. And so I go up there and you're going into that and you don't you have now I'm still like they got me by the balls. I got nothing, dude, I have no control of the lawyers. Like, dude, like you, I hope we can get you out. And I've just given it all up, you know. I'm like, man, like my life, I've lived an amazing life. If this is what's happening, Like this is what it is, dude. But I can't, like I understand when people get backed into a corner, you know, I understand like that feeling of helplessness and you maybe want to just like act out a little bit towards like whatever is pushing. You want to push back, dude, you want to push back. But I didn't push back. You know. I went and I stood in front of the judge and and uh, you know I I think one of the quotes was, you know, it's ruined all my life and that was like a quote from the court. And my whole family's already like my whole family and my friends that showed up, Louie and Justin and Dowell and Johnny. They showed up like you do. They didn't have to show up. They showed up in my behalf and my family's behalf. And you know, she she looked at this and I was like, you know, she told me, she's like, I've never I've never seeing anyone facing what you're facing with the record you have in the life you've lived. But at that point you have a plea bargain, you know, like it's done. But she's just like, this is what your sentences and she just like, dude, she didn't give me ship. You know, she was like she understood a little bit, I think, and she had empathy for the situation, not that she was like, you didn't break the law, and she's like, you broke you broke the law. Mr Carter like this is this is the consequences. And I was like, oh, I accepted anything you give me. This is it. And I got three years unsupervised probation because she was empathetic towards my my job and traveling in all this career, and so that was like a huge relief. I was like, oh my god, I'm not going to prison, dude, but I'm like it wasn't. And then I realized, like, my my anxiety wasn't about me going to prison. It was about my brother, Like what are they going to do to him? And dude, he they got up there and uh do they sentenced him to like a year and a half in prison, and like his wife's there and like crying. I was like this this heavy moment, and I was like all right, like okay, a year and a half, Like what's my solution here? Like hopefully that doesn't happen. And walking out of that court room was very sobering. It was in this way of like, Okay, I think you're going to jail. I'm not going to jail, which I'd rather be going to jail. You have the family, but we're done now, we're moving forward. We're like we know what's going to happen. I have to some control. I'm like okay, man, like let's like we'll figure this out. Like you know, I was evening I quit the snowboarding, like I'll come back to the ranch, like whatever I gotta do to like hell my family and like make us work. Thank god he didn't have to do a year and a half. They want to do some ship and he did end up having to do like two months in federal, which was crazy, but he was like, man, that was a great that was that was that was an experience, man Like that was something that I needed, you know. And I don't know the reasoning behind everything that went down. I always felt like, you know, I think when you're always in a situation like yeah, you feel like poor me, poor me, and like they're going at me so hard, and like I just but I just it was what it was, and I just like to take your licking. Here you go, man, first, wreck like wreck, get up, Like are you going to let this define you as a person? Are you gonna like hold resentment against the the people? And it was my choice. It was our choice, man, Like I accepted the choice that we had made to get us in this position. That was us, man, it wasn't them. They didn't have we put them in that position to hammer us. You know, they did go by the law, we did break the law. It was what it was. But I think you're always in that position. You're like, poor me. But I got over that, and I like, you know, Arcy did his prison time. But after that, I really prioritized my life in a way of like, am I snowboarding for money? Because I lost everything? Man? Like I didn't have ship, I had like one sponsor left. And I was like, am I doing this for money? Or am I doing it because I love snowboarding. I love being in the mountains. This is my life, this is this is what I do. And Goose gave me some amazing advice. He's like, man, don't worry about what everybody else is doing. He's like, just focus on your own program. And man, I I quit traveling the world. I focused on being home. I focused on being in Jackson and not leaving Jackson and just like making that my home and saving money because I didn't have the budget to travel anymore. Man I have like, dude, I go to Alaska twenty g s to like burn on helicopters, which is so like it's crazy, check me out. I'm rich, check out. But I didn't appreciate it, man, until I lost all that stuff. And it was the best thing that ever happened in my career was losing all that and then really appreciating everything I've curated up back to this point, like getting the sponsors. People that signed me understood my past, and I was always been transparent about like yo, like I gotta check her past, Like this is the deal. Understanding being in a position of being a judgment like people like they see your record, man, Like you see three felonings on somebody's record and you're like, what did this? Dude? Dude, Like you can't have guns, you can't vote, Like I'm not even a citizen, you know, but I think the gun thing hurts me more than anything. You know that, Like that hurts my soul, just not being able to like do something I love. You know, Well, let let me just say this, like you're the first person I've ever met, and I have to think about this and make sure I'm not being hyperbolic. I'm at this moment, You're the first person I've ever met that had their their Second Amendment rights stripped away. And I earned it. I earned it, you know I did that. That was me. But it hurts. And more than it hurting me, it's like watching how it affects our ranch, you know, like like watching like if you ever have been around a big ranch and a lot of livestock, like things need put down and and and shot. And to not have that tool as a ranchers like a doctor not having a scalpel, and the things I see my brother have to do. Um it, man, it kills me. That hurts my heart because like those he cares about his animals more than anybody I know and like to look something in the eye and cut its throat with a knife. Dude, that's personal. Man, Like that hurts. And for one instance, like he had this pig he loved, man, he loved this pig, Peaches. It was Peach's mom. We have Peaches two or three now, but Peach's mom. She was she was just like a family pet. Lived under the little shelter out there under the by the house. And he had a bunch of little piglets, cute little piglets, a bunch of strang is in the winter, and uh, all them little piglets were under there is cold. Well you get a heat lamp in there, and somehow a bunch of some straw got pushed up against that lamp started on fire, and that fire started and he's like he didn't you know, he had to go out there. He saved a couple of the piglets, but he had to like sit there and watch that pig burn and hear it burned. Something that he loved burned because he couldn't put a bullet in, you know, and like, man, that was tough. Yeah, I mean I don't have all that to say, Yeah, but I mean it's just like I just I one. Here's one thing I will say is that that this story, you can't find a lot of people that are willing to talk like you're talking right now, man, Like so you got a lot of courage, even in this moment in front of a microphone with headphones on, to talk about it. So like it's it's so folks that are listening to this, you take what you want from Marx lived it, so it doesn't matter. But like, at some level there's I don't think I could find another person that's willing to sit here say I got a felony and this is what the story was, and this is how I feel, and this is how I got up off the mat. Yeah, well it's it's been something that I've been ashamed of. You know. It's like it's like the elephant in the room right, Like people are like, what about Carter? Like, but it is what it is, man Like, that's look at where your life is, man, I mean, look at where you are. And that's the thing about this experiences. I wouldn't take it back. It is as hard as messed up as it was, Like I would not take that back because I wouldn't be where I am. I don't even think i'd be at pro snowboarder. Dude. This experience lit a fire in me like I've never I never felt. I was like, oh, priorities my life and got my ship together and like went after it because I was like, dude, it can be over. Like boom, I have my freedom. Like I had all these problems before this, and then there was one problem I was worried about, and that was my freedom. Man Like, when you have your freedom stripped, when you're like I don't I'm not free to roam anymore. Like, man, I was like, this is crazy, and I was like, get busy living, and dude, I chased it, but I did it on my terms. I was like, I'm not listening to anybody. I have thicker skin now from digging a beating from those newspapers constantly, constantly, constantly seeing that back and forth, and I just look at those I mean they painted you in like a bad light, and a lot of them man like, well this is the media. But we talked about the media. And then the largest poaching case and like they even used a quote in this one. Um you get down here from one of the uh investigators and he's like he says, I don't worry, but statistically it's a pretty dangerous job. Everybody we deal with has a gun. And it's like it's just they're trying to paint you in a way. That's this man they painted us. And uh, yeah, I appreciate you know, being on this, on this this platform, be able to talk about because I honestly I've never talked about it. Yeah you know, well listen, like I said, I think when when there's there's a symptom, which a lot of times is very justified. Like the way you're apportioning it to me is is understandable anything. You know your family, you know the people that you are, and when you're telling me this story, I know that you know in your heart, like, these are good people and they did a thing they shouldn't have done. And to to to be constantly forced to rationalize good people being punished in the way that they were is I know that's a tough thing. And I know you have you want to, you have to say we deserved it because you broke the law I did. But it's not that simple. There's layers. There's layers to it, and I think that's something that I've seen through other folks I've known that have had issues UM and the public's fear. People want to they want to knock you down, they want to take you down, and and and again, I would say, look, if I do something wrong, I'll I hope I approach it the way you did and say, hey, I knew with this is wrong, and I did it anyway, and now I have to face the consequences and learn from it. You know, hopefully the consequences are leveled. We need to be held accountable, you know, I think it's important. But I think we need to hold our peers accountable, like our friends accountable, and I think nothing ever changes when somebody you don't respect or care about is like attacking you, but when your friends are like speaking to you with honestly, like yo, dude, that was kind of messed up, Like you shouldn't do that, ship like calling you out, like whether it be in your work environment or your personal environment. Like I really respect somebody that comes up to me. It's like, dude, you like that's how to that's out of line? Man, Like, I'm just gonna call you out on that, and then you're gonna be like think about that because you respect that person. I think there needs to be more of that and not afraid to like a cross that line, because I think that's a line that needs to be crossed. If somebody's out of line, man, like, they need to put the core ten of my lifestyle, like respecting wildlife, respecting the land, and anybody crosses that line and they're gonna hear it, right and they need to. But as long as they like acknowledge and are accountable, I mean, man, there's room for forgiveness too. That's the beautiful thing about humans. Well you've earned it, Like you're sponsored by the north Face, sponsored by Yettie, You're sponsored by these companies that have everything to lose by bringing a felon onto their team. And listen, I was there, I worked there. I understand those relationships. Those relationships. It's it's either it's a zero some game. It's very much either it's all good for the company, or it's not going to happen, it doesn't continue. I mean, man, it was like it was crazy, the hate, Like you couldn't read the comments, like people just like, oh, they should all be killed, Like I mean crazy, Like don't read the comments because it's just this this no consequence for your actions, like if you say that online, this cowardly platform where there's no consequences. And I think that's the problem today is people can just say things Like where I grew up, man, like if you said something to somebody like there was consequences, there was no running from it, like you had to stand toe to toe and you're like did you say that? And that just doesn't happen anymore. Like, man, I had, you know, a couple of projects come out, and I had people calling my sponsors, government agencies calling my sponsors telling them after I had paid my dues done everything that they wanted me to do. I got these guys calling my sponsors and telling them how bad of a guy I am and getting cut from sponsors because these guys that I just bowed down to and did any everything they wanted me to do, I still had the power and control over my career and that that pissed me off. I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, We're not done here, Like we're still We're gonna still gonna do this, like I have no leverage and there was nothing I could do, but I just took it. Man. I just watched these sponsors fall off. There's like there, oh, there go some more revenue. Awesome, thank you, thank you? What more do you want for me? You know? Did you feel at any moment that that maybe this was it redeemable, like maybe you couldn't get it back? Was there everybody like a low moment where you're like, dude, that I may never I got I guess if I didn't. It got to where I didn't care if I got all that back. I just wanted to continue to live the life that I believed in and that was where I found freedom. And then it all came kind of back around. You know, I just I gave up the paychecks. I gave up like carrying, chasing whatever the industry told me I needed to do. Because I was a controversial subject within the snowboard industry. Everybody's kind of like Carter over, Carter over here. You was some poaching redneck from from Wyoming, And of course they would like generalize me into that, into that box. They didn't know that, you know, my past, you know, and I think that's a dangerous thing. So when all these things are going down in our society and all these things, like I can really like I can kind of relate to some things. You know. I know what it's like to be stripped of your freedoms. I know what it's like to be just no control, just zero control. But it's like how you respond to this, Like are you are am I gonna make this my identity gonna Am I gonna be a victim here? Or am I just be like I'm gonna use that ship as fuel. Man, I'm gonna like stand up, I'm gonna work my ass off, I'm gonna like my My mentality was like I want to anybody that hated and like called me and tried to like hold me down, I'm gonna show them in like five years that like they were all wrong here. I am like everybody's like card Cardridge, temporary man, like snowboard industry. I was already like an underdog with like my background. Nobody has a rancher in snowboarding. Like it wasn't cool, dude, Like it was not cool. They're like this, dude, let's this cook over here. And I was like, listen, I grew up in the mountains. I grew up in the nature, Like this is this is my this is my ship, and I'm gonna show you guys, this is my ship and I live it every day. I live in the dirt, I live in the mounds, I live in the winter, and um yeah, man, I just trying to like keep that, keep that going. Look Like, in a lot of ways, our society functions on stories, right, and and as somebody who writes stories and thinks about stories and how to tell stories, you don't tell a story that doesn't have it doesn't have a triumph, and it doesn't have an ultimate challenge, doesn't have a protagonist and an antagonist. You don't tell a good story. You don't tell a flat, happy story to people to compel them. You don't turn on Netflix and watch somebody's happy life. You watch people go through ship and be imperfect and come out of it. And that's what makes life compelling, right, I mean, man, like that that uh, that's suffering and just that hurt and like that's so it sucks at the time, but man, that's the best thing for you. That builds character. I got a lot of character. I was gonna say, yeah, you're not You're not gonna meeting like, but my dad, like, you know, I think it comes back to the ranch. Man. Like, it wasn't my first beating. Maybe it was like that and it was like traumatic, but it was not my first beating. I was like, okay, so what we do. But I mean it prioritized my family and made me appreciate everything I have. I was like, listen, I could lose all this ship tomorrow. As long as I do lose my freedom and as long as I have my family, it's gonna be all good. You know. So everything passed that's been a bonus. So it's like it's a good dude. Well, it's like after taking all that time trying to battle just to understand, like I am I going to have freedom and then like maybe achieving the ultimate freedom afterwards, knowing that, like here's the real priority, Like I had to I had to face certain prison. That's a weird thought, dude. I was just saying, like, I know, I've been hanging out with you, dude, You're normal, dude, you're good dude, Like, and you were facing prison time from the federal government. Man, you know, and they're passed, man, they're pissed. And look again, I know how it is in our commutey and the hunting community. People people are rightly stripped of things when they do things wrong. They're right at least. So if I, you know, if I did if I did what you did, I'd be stripped of a lot of things right and rightly rightfully so and as as you were. Um, but there's there's there's always a butt to People don't deserve to get a race from the plan. No, we can move on. Like if people are like I say, accountable and and understand, like they admit their guilt, they stand up and they stand there like that's what I did, man like, well, why not forgive like I want to? Here you are right now sitting here in this one how many years? How many years of going by? Not that? Man? It's like I think I had sentenced in two thousand and twelve, eight years, eight years. Man sucks not having guns bullshit, And that's you have to get a presidential pardon, correct too? I think so? I mean, I just you know, I don't know, man, Like I can't even vote, dude, I can't talk to the president. You just feel like that's it. Man, that's well. I I've accepted it, you know, and if like something changed, that would be amazing. I would love to see my my my old man is my brother get our guns back? But dude, like honestly archery, like being able to hunt like that was the first time when Dudley took me out last spring with that new bow he built me and took me to Oklahoma and I hunted hogs with him, and I shot a bore like I didn't realize how much I missed that and how much that meant to me. And and he never judged me, he didn't look at me like I was just like this, like tarnished human being. He's just like, oh yeah, man, you're cool. Like it's just you know, it was like to go and get back into hunting and be out there. It was like such kind of like a rejuvenating thing for me. Was that something you were kind of worried about, dude, I was so worried about that, Like even after your your rights came back and you could go hunting again. Where was it something you just avoided because judgment? Man, Like, who wants to be judged, let ed? Especially in the hunting community. I mean, this is like a controversial topic, and I'm sure there's a lot of people are like that guy sucks. There's a lot of people can get mad at me. But I get and I get that. I like, I've had I've had experiences and when we were talking about this, we were hunting. Man, It's just like people, I hate to generalize like this, but like there is this there is a portion of people that want to knock folks down and keep them down and and listen, I get the anger. I get that I'm doing it the right way and this guy didn't. How we just should never celebrate him again. I get that feeling. But I met you and I know you what I'm talking to you, and I'm seeing you sit across from me, like bearing everything for for what you know want. There's nothing for you to game from sitting here talking to me. There's nothing and so but yet you're doing it right, and so that show's character. Yeah, I mean I got lots of it. I can look at it like no matter what you've done, or what I've done, or definitely what Joe has done for gar holding us this week, like we're not going to judge him for kicking rocks kicking rocks. But but I think like when you can look at somebody and they can say to you, listen, man, this is my story, this is my life, this is what I did. I fucked up. It's it's awful. But then you can laugh with them and learn about their life and their successes and the other things in their life that balance out the ship. What's more, what's more like human? What's more man, It's it's relatable And I agree, I agree. I mean everybody's faced their hardships, whatever degree that maybe, but it's like stand up man, like, don't let them keep you down. They want to keep you down. It's the easiest thing to do. Like, but people I understand, man, Like people are pissed. People are pissed, Like what's going on? People want to like they want to they don't know what to do. They're like lost, man, It's like, you know what you could do is just like be kind, put yourself in other people's shoes, think about what they're thinking, why they think that way, Respect one another, you know, like help your neighbor. Like if somebody doesn't you know, if there's a complete opposite so diverse in this world, like help them if you don't think they'd like you, that's more of the reason to go up and be like, hey man, how do you don smile? How are you doing? Dade Man? Like, yeah, it doesn't cost a penny to be nice, dude, I don't know. Well for you to go through all that, you know, and again it's like going through it as a turn. You went through it, happen, you did something wrong, you got pinched, took it, you took it. Here you go and then come out on the other edge of page. Duds come out on the other end like hey, positivity is the way and not like funk the government, you know, like, hey, man, I don't hear you're saying that, what are you gonna do? Man? It's positivity, you know, And like I generalizing things like is dangerous, Like there's bad there's bad eggs and every carton. But to say one carton is bad just because of what they are, like, that's that's not right. And I think there's great people in the government. You know, there's people that care in the government. Are there people that don't care? And are all there some duds? Yeah, lots of them. But like, man, we're all human, dude, Like whatever pistons you are. It's just like seeing each other as humans. You know. I'm just like acknowledging that we're all on the same team. Dude. Yeah, I mean, listen, no matter what it's it, no matter what else it is, no wonder what else is your like life and story is what you just told is powerful, like it no matter what it is other than that, it's powerful people if you really listen to it and take it in. Mark sitting here just bearing all this and laying all this out there, man, But which Peaches had a better end? Yeah? Yeah, she has a bad deal. A bad deal. But I mean that's one thing to back about to the ranch. It's like, man, like nothing new about death. My death is that's the only guarantee. Like we're all gonna die, like animals die, like being on the ranch, like understanding that, and that's really like what made me. I don't want to die, man, but I ain't afraid of it. I do not fear that, you know, I will like do things. I don't ever make any decisions based upon is it dangerous. It was like, yeah, it's dangerous. It kind of makes it fun. But I don't have a death wish and I don't want to die. But I mean I'm not gonna like go around scared of dying because dude, hopefully happens quick like lights out, and I mean it is what it is, you know. Yeah, man, I don't know. Like I said this, this is one of those times where you know, it's not that I can say other than thanks for sharing that stuff, hey, man, pleasure, thanks for choosing this, thanks for choosing this place, and thanks for taking me bear hunting any time, dude, you come about. You still have a bear tag for this one too. We know that I'd love to come back, man, get some meat. You're welcome any time, man, because it is Uh, don't have to be bears either, could be anything, do something, something will happen, Something will happened. But yeah, we had fucking blast. That was blast. That's good. That's fun, like when you can. We just hiked and sat around. We met a little older couple that were so nice to us. They were asked us all kinds of crazy questions. Hey, there was an older guy who was a hunter, like quote unquote hunter had hunted before with guys and things, and then his wife it was completely and utterly clueless to what was going on, and she's like, how do you get a bear out? If you how do you shoot it with a bow more than one. I love when people are interested in something they know nothing about, and I think that's how that's how we should be. Man. We just like, you know, answer them with a smile. Don't look at him like this pretentious look like you're dumb, Like, hey, oh yeah you're interested. Here you go. That's the first step, like understanding. She wants to understand man and appreciate it. And I'll tell you what, man, flat out totally honest, looking the eye you appreciate for lices is in infections. Joe would agree when you look at when you've seen death a lot like you appreciate that life and especially like the existential, like your social life and the way you're seeing in your industry and how hard you work to gain a stand and having that you know just wrecked for for you know, for reasons that you caused. It's it's a good anyway. Like I'm glad you told that story. I'm glad you came here. We had a good time. Man, I appreciate I know you're busy, dude, you got a lot going on. All I wanted from you is to get some meat. Now I get some of that Carter Country beef, will make it happen. Man, that's all happened. Carter Country meats all right, Thanks bro, hell, Yes, that's it. That's all another episode in the books. Thanks for hanging with us a little longer than normal. But um, like an incredibly powerful story all the way around from our Carter Um. It was emotional, man. After I wanted to give that dude to hug after we recorded, because it took some courage for him to sit down and go into that detail that story. Um, it's not man, I'll let me just say it this way. I'm glad that he came here. I'm glad that he opened up. I'm glad that he told his side of the story, and I'm glad that we're all able to take that in and learn from it. I think of all the things we've done a hundred thirty one episodes, I think his story is the most unique and the most impactful that I have heard. And really, when I started this podcast, I just wanted to share people stories and perspective so we could all get the idea of what this collective hunting community is all about. And I think what Mark is able to do is so unique because you're not gonna find Phil and Joe. You're not gonna find someone just to tell you their story about how they their convicted felon and the convicted poacher. Most people that have that happened to them, they either get punished or they get off and then they never talk about it again because it ain't great pr especially for somebody like Mark, who's who's out in the public sphere. So it's a it's a rare occurrence to get somebody like that that's brave enough to sit down and just rip out a story like that. I just I want to repeat this because I think it's important. It's something that it's like looking into a mirror, like what people around you. I've had friends, I've had friends, very close friends. In fact, it was one of my very best friend's birthday yesterday. He's dead. He's been dead for I think six or seven years now. Uh he died of an overdose heroin. And but he was like my brother growing up. And he's not around anymore. And he did some terribly irredeemable ship on his way out the door, stealing, fighting, all kinds of things during his addiction, and uh boy, some some stuff that society probably wouldn't give him a break for. And so now I'm left like he's not here anymore, and I'm left to kind of decide whether I'm going to forgive him or what it means that he's gone. And and those are the things he did in his last days, months, years on the earth. And so there's just just take a look in the mirror, think about it, and then when you're moving around the world, whether you're on the internet or you're not, think about it. Think about what people deserve, think about your own imperfections, think about the imperfections of the people around you, and hopefully that will allow you to have compassion for just about anyone in the right situation. Again, there are certain people that just do things that are flat out evil and they don't deserve it, but there are plenty more people that do. So that's it. You see you next week. Say bye, philm goodbye because I can't go a week without doing rong drank