00:00:00 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Tyler Jones and you're listening to the Element podcast. What's happening on my woods people? Today we're sitting there sweating it out again. It is uh, pretty brutal day, but it's nothing like yesterday as far as community goes. I feel like it's so much better last night. Um my guitar. I had a guitar in the case that was sitting the back of my truck in my house. And when I woke up this morning, the right at daybreak, dude, it was sweating. That case was sweating harder than I've ever seen anything sweat. I think it had so much water on it. Dude, just from being human, It's almost like sketchy, that's your guitar case is sweating that much like this was the guitar case. I mean, I'm sure I haven't looked at it, but it's closed up, so she'd be good. I feel like I put guns in cases that are closed up for like a year and that look and they're real rusted. Guitar has come that about every week, so yeah, we deal. Uh, and the strings really is all that would I would worry about rusting, which I can just replace those pretty easily. Yeah, it's been it's been warm here and uh, you and I've been sweating out trying to get into elk shape. Oh man, it's funny because I went to Elk Country and got out of shape while I was there. Yeah, it's kind of what it's like. Uh, it's like I helped her. I actually wrote part of an article for a guy recently and it was one of the questions, you know, I was talking about like things you do to mentally and physically get through like rutcation, and I was like, well, really, you know, I just worked really hard about nine months out of the year and then like for three months, I just eat duplex cookies. Oh yeah, you know, drink and like water burger and just sweet teas and cokes and whatever else can keep me awake with caffeine, and you know, and it's like that's what that's just, that's just kind of what it ends up being. Like. You go to Deer Country, you get out of shape. You go to Elk Country, you get out of elk shape. Yeah, I mean it's just what you do eat real good. Something about man that cold, whether you want to eat real good. Yeah, yeah, that's definitely definitely a big part of it. And I'm not afraid to eat some carbs, which I don't really like. I don't feel like I like gain a lot of weight or anything. I just get like soft as far as like, I'm just not like I'm not a beast anymore, you know what I mean. I don't know if I ever am a beast anymore. But oh man, anyway, yeah, I mean, speaking of going to the Old Country, we're not far out from going to Old country. Um so pretty excited about, uh shooting something because we've been shooting a little bit in the mornings too together and it's like man shoots target and I haven't even really dealed the sights in yet. Tyler and I have decided that we lock each other's arrows better, so but we like our our arrows some last season and swapped them between our two boats, which is kind of a funny thing to do. Don't do that unless you really know someone what you're doing, because you might blow up a boat in right are. It worked pretty good, But yeah, the l counts getting close. I'm getting pumped. You have all your gear? I need to go down the list. I'm getting real close to have it all my gear. I think got I mean pack shelter. Uh ordered arrows yesterday, Uh from day six actually, so who I got those from? It might be a podcast coming from them pretty soon. But and then broadheads and so have some broadheads to buy. But I mean generally, I've got everything I need. I think, what about you? I mean, water system is a big one. Now, I don't feel like we don't have yet. Well I've got my strapion and that's like my my go to. And I looked at the the Sawyers at um as an albino spider. I looked at the Sawyers at Walmart the day and their thirty bucks for the big one. So the big one they yeah, the one that Trent talked about on the back Country series. Yeah, I didn't know that. That's pretty good. Yeah, well that's not a big burden. And I was thinking more like seventy The Sawyers are like thirty bucks. They're not that bad, is I mean, it's every little bit adds up. But like that's pretty good for water for the whole trip. And I think that comes with a couple of like dirty bags and stuff too, So that I mean, I the shelter is one thing I got you know, really, I don't know. There's just there's just several little gear things obviously that we kind of both have needed on the trip and on a little bit behind you because it's a long vacation. And speaking of gear, we're actually doing a gear giveaway. We are speaking of the back Country series, right, So like with all this, we are pretty much celebrating the fact that we have had a hundred thousand downloads guys, and thank you all so much for listening, for all those downloads, for putting up with us whenever we don't really know what we're saying on podcasts, but our guests, dude and all that. Thank you all very much for downloading, and thank you for the growth that we've had the past year. It's been really awesome and we're very appreciative of it. And to show that, um, we are giving away some stuff and thinks okay, so uh. The big prize is a set of Vortex tim By forty two diamond back binoculars, which is the binoculars that I've used for a couple of seasons. Tyler's gotta pay for this season, and we're giving away a brand new pair. You don't even gotta get the used ones. How many friends are we going to have that one that asked for those like kind of on the side. You know, I've already had too, so I don't know, But hey, what do you think about choosing me? You need to give me a review first. We are for real fair, So the way you win is by giving us a iTunes slash Apple podcast review and a lot of you done that in the past and we really appreciate that. And guess what, you're not out of the running. You can still win because we choose from anyone who's ever given us a review, so it's not a time period or whatever. So guys, head over there, give us a five star review, tell us something cool you like, kill us something that you'd like to hear more of on the podcast. Uh, And I think we decided that we're gonna end this thing when we get back from the helo. Yeah, we're gonna choose somebody probably on the way home from the HeLa hunt between naps. That's gonna be, yeah, exactly. Uh. So that's gonna be, like, you know, probably late September, So you need to like try to get your review in by mid September. So if you can't do that. I'm sorry. Yeah. And also along with that, we're giving away other stuff too. It's not just the binoculars, giving away some on ex premium memberships, some cool swag. And then also if and we're well on the way to this, so this might happen. Uh if you guys, y'all, if you're in the sale, as we like to say, if y'all, Um, if y'all get us to a hundred downloads during this promotion, which I think it started at one, Uh, we will give away a trick camera as will in this whole deal. So pretty sweet. Actually, one of my favorite cameras that we run is gonna be the excess trick. We're gonna give away one of those. Uh. So uh, go over there, give us some review guys and reviews guys, and uh we will get you some cool stuff. Yeah for sure. Um. You know what, man, I can't hardly do it anymore, but I want to open these tags up. Man. I have been receiving tags in the mail, which some of my favorite things to receive. Love that you got these these are good ones. Uh. You know one of them is Kansas, so it's always good if we can draw there. Um and we find it there quite a bit. It's fine. Um. The other happens to be from the Iowa Department of Natural Resources. Oh you're a white tail freak. I am man dean RS dude, Like that's when you know you're in good deer countries. I think it's the Deer Natural Resources or something. But I got me an Iowa tag in the mail yesterday and I'm it's real, guys, Like, I'm really going, how many years have you all been listening to us? Like say, oh, we're going to Nowa next year? You know? Well, I'm pretty sure episode four was called Hello Iowa. Yeah, and that was when we one of the first four a lot, but four was with Fasburg, so it was early. It's early though, It's like seven, right, so it's early. But anyways, that was like when the podcast started and we were scouting for your supposed trip that year, and there we are finally drawing. I'm glad we did, though, but yeah, I know we learned a ton. There was enough there that, like, even two years later, I think it's gonna be We're gonna learned stuff. And the cool thing about that too, is like that's the trip we met Zack Farnball and all them on and made you know, relationship with those guys, like we got bros up there and all kinds of stuff and they're all tight lip. Now I don't know what the deal is. They're like, oh, well, you know, there's a lot of deer when when you draw, come on up here in uh you know, just let me know. I'll give you some spots, you know or whatever. And I don't want spots and you know that I'm kind of exaggerating there now. Now now it's like, hey, I do this tag like, oh that's great man, Like, yeah it is left. No, they're they're cool man, most of them. But if we're getting pretty pumped about all these white tail hunts and um, we've been talking a lot about our hunting system and how we go in, especially on public land. How how long have you heard me complain about my wide stand claimking on bushes? Right? I think in the review you like do a little like funny like go through these trees and get stuck because your standing the review of your stand, yeah, one of the element evails. We actually talked about both of our stands. I think, right, we've done so Anyways, Um, you're gonna be heading up to Iowa. I don't know if I'm gonna get to go with you every time you go. It depends on how when you kill first the first day, that would be good. Um, and uh, we gotta hunts all over the country, and I think being light, being mobile is gonna be a super big thing. So actually today we're talking to someone who might have some insight to that for sure. We've got Drew Walter of Wild Edge and uh, Drew is just a cool guy that I've kind of met through social media and and seeing his product his steps for a long you know, for a long time, you and I have kind of salivated over having something a lot easier to maneuver with and and uh a lot lighter, right and and those seemed to be that way. I've never put my hands on him or anything. But we've got Drew um to talk about the whole everything that a saddle hunter or that somebody who's a potential saddle hunter might have a question about. Hopefully, and we're gonna go through There's gonna be some stupid questions that some of you guys that are saddle hunters are like, Oh, these guys don't know anything, but I think that that will be helpful for a lot of people. And not everybody has five hundred bucks to invest into a saddle system or something like that. So you know, it's it's something that is trendy and it's catching on fast. But at the same time, like there's a lot of people still out there that are just kind of uh, don't have the green card from their wife to let them go ahead and buy that, you know. So um then that's me actually, So I mean but when you vibe, you know, a nice pack and all these things were getting for the Elk hunt and this and that, you know, you kind of gotta pick you pick your battles. Yeah, we talked about this the other day. We had a guy that was like commented on the on the video, was like talking about the fact that I was wearing sick when I shot Nameless. Uh, but I was shooting a bow that was like twelve years old. Now, Like, dude, you just can't, like you can't have a brand new everything every year, you know what I mean, Like I have something that's twelve years old because I've been buying a sicker system for like the last four years, you know, and so like yeah, I'm wearing Sica, but I bought. You know, I've either bought or had Christmas presents or whatever given to me over the last four or five years, so that I have that nice stuff, you know. So and what this bro didn't know is that actually on your lowers you had on the michelin Man natural gears. Don't even pants at the time, did you not at all? I thought you had those equinox some equinox from our buddy Anthony. Yeah, so those weren't even bought. So, I mean that's the idea I had. Like these uh yeah, he calls them the michelin Man pants. They're like gigantic, they are. They're gigantic, but it's a nice like outer, you know, and it's a natural gear, which is a good camera in my opinion, especially when you're talking some of the places that we've hunted in the Midwest. And um, yeah, I mean that's just it. Like sometimes like you need new arrows every couple of years usually for shooting some stuff, right, So like, uh, that's a hundred and something bucks, you know, plus broadheads and everything else. I mean you're talking about like I mean, if you're making good money and that's that's one thing. But if you're just an old blue collar guy like you and me and struggling between jobs, I mean, you can only do so much every year. So the good thing, did you um kill that deer nameless? I did with that twelve year old bo quickly? Yeah? How about that? Quickly? He did? He quickly died and there was a massive blood trail and and though it didn't pass through uh, it went through both lungs. So it's a pretty pretty crazy The goal was accomplished. That's right, a little woodsman ship and you follow the blood trail and you're there, you know what I mean? Did so? Uh? I mean, and that's that's the that is man, that's the goal. And so like obviously you know we're all these things, all these ideas that we're just thrown out there, come down to this. We're about to interview Drew with wild Edge, so that you have an opportunity to see if a you want to spend that money um to kind of this year, I guess, spend the money so that your system looks a little bit different this year and ultimately is more effective hopefully, right. And so you're also making decision on whether like this gear is going to help you, uh and and uh make its value. I guess so, um, I guess. With that said, let's go ahead and get Drew on the podcast and chatted up with him. Sounds good. Alright, So now on the podcast we've got Drew Walter of Wild Edge Ink what's happening? And Drew just living and dream Boys? Are you doing? Man? Trying to do the same sweating it out this morning already? Man, I know we kind of talked about this off air, but the humidity has been ridiculous and uh, we gottaus. We've been working out in the mornings, which is technically better than an evening workout around here in Texas in the this time of year. But we've been uh we've been getting ready for ELK, which I think you're kind of doing the same. Huh. Yeah, I'd say I'm a little behind him and getting ready for planning on going YEA. Well yeah, I mean I've seen you on social and stuff. You look like a pretty fit guy like you probably don't have trouble getting up and down the mountains too much, do you. Yeah, I think I'll be all right. Yeah. I used to be big into bodybuilding, and lifting weights, but started business and that kind of drifted away from I did the same thing, man, for a long time. I kind of did the amateur bodybuilding thing and thought I was gonna do it, and then you meet somebody and marry her, and then uh, that kind of goes away. Kids, family business. Yeah, yeah, for sure. You know nowadays they've got those. I was. I was in Colorado this summer and in the convenient stores they've got these little miniature oxygen packs that you can buy and just carry the mountain with you. I'm like, I don't care how fit I am. One of those might be nice, you know, for a pack out or something. You can just hit that thing and roll. One of my buddies that went out West, he said the same exact thing. He brought a couple of them. He actually went the doctor and got prescription for one, and he said it was a life saver. He said, when he was bent over trying to catch his breath, you just take a hit of that, and he said, you'd wake right up. Like how long does that last you? How many hits can you take off of that thing? I don't know. I'll just keep throwing hay bills and I figured I won't need YEA. I was actually talking about this with my wife the other night because Casey talks about, you know, elevation and everything and how like, oh when you when we were from you know, four feet elevation, so those flat Landers, like when we go into Colorado, it's a different ballgame in elevation. And I'm like, I was telling her, I was like, I just have never noticed that, and she goes, I think it's because you have asthma, and I was like, that might be it, Like I've never I just can't breathe at any elevation, you know what I mean. So it's like whatever, I mean, it put me at at you know, I've never been you know, hunting elk at twelve tho feet or anything, you know, but our mule there. But I think there's a there might be something to it. So anyway, I've been training as hard as I can to overcome any asthmatic symptoms anyway. So, um, well, so you have you been doing any like whitetail stuff or is the business kind of interfering with your scouting in summer trail cameras or whatever? Is that not something you do? Oh dude, I'm so far behind. I was just talking to my buddy this morning and saying, I got one camera out and I got my food plot planted, and that's about it. I usually I'm way ahead of this what I am right now, But it's just this year has been insane. How big is the property you hunt? I have? I mainly hunt pretty much all public land. I have a couple of small pieces of private land that I've haunted my entire life. Um, that's you know, the biggest pieces fifty acres, Yeah, is that kind of you know, a couple of little five acre pieces, two acre pieces, And I found sometimes those little tiny pieces are the best spot. Oh yeah, man, we've we've kind of noticed that too. Man. It's uh, if the habitats ride and the pressure and everything, man, it can be a pretty awesome little fine. And it doesn't seem like like when somebody's like, yeah, I'll give you access to eighty or one sixty year or whatever, it might be like that seems like a big commitment on their part. But when they're like, oh, yeah, I got two acres over here, you know, it's like no big deal. If you just stomp around on it, you probably won't kill anything anyway, you know. But usually the bigger the property is, the more competition you have with hunters, and the more stress puts on a deer. And it's just you find those little pieces of people don't even look at. So I do a lot of access by kayak because you know, most guys don't have the ambition to launch a kayak battle two miles to on a nasty hell hole. Do you do that on public and private? Or is that usually just on the public places? You have to do that? That's all public. I live right next to Connecticut River, so there's a bunch of US streams and uh like the Sad River, little swamps and just nasty, nasty holes that uh they're bow hunting only zones for public land and they're just completely overlooked. And that's kind of how I started got really in saddle hunting, because I'm not gonna put the metal tree stand on a kayak and carry a tree stand and you know, big metal piece of equipment through the frags. The whole point is you can't hunt this. I start on the ground, but when you're in the frag, you can't see five feet in front of you, so you have to get at least eight ten feet off the ground, and the tree may only be fifteen feet tall. You said, I think frag or something like that. I don't know what that is. Frag mighty. It's an invasive species of a plant that spread all basically all over to England, and it gets so thick and it can get like, you know, eight ten feet tall that you can barely walk through it, and like you can barely see your hand in front of your face. Yeah. Does it make good deer habitat though? Uh, good cover, But most of the time it's you know, it's flooded or um. But it's usually it's on the edges of them what turns into like nasty briers and just thick, thick, low lying prickers and stuff. So it's uh, it's I mean you can see the trails in the frag on a satellite map, like you can see the deer trails are so heavy. That's cool. So what's that country like up there? I mean you're hunting in Connecticut, Connecticut mostly right? So, like, is the public and private all kind of the same or or they look different? No public land up here is you need a written permission, slip to hunt on private land, um from the landowner. UM. Public land same as anywhere else you can walk on. But there's also see public land that is designated either you know, rifle and bow or bow hunting only is some of the best properties. And then we have our town. Is that a very rural town, so we have a ton of open space and nature conservancy which the town buys up all these properties so it can't be developed to keep it rural. Like we have one gas station in one tiny little market and that's it. Um. So what the town buys up these pieces of land and then they allow residents to walk in on April two and pick which property want to hunt. And there's only a certain round of people allowed hunt that property. So it's public land. You have dog walkers and bikers and all kinds of people on the property, but it's owned by the town. Yeah. I do a lot of hunting that way. And yeah, any public land I can get my hands on. So like from a from a habitat standpoint, I mean, what's the difference something. I mean I guess that private's developed into like agricultural producing or like cattle country or whatever. Yeah, it's uh, so we have you know, there's there's a lot of small farms around here, so cattle farms, but you know, we don't have The only egg we have around here is hay fields. So the hardest part is like you can't there's really no such thing around here. It's glassing for deer. Yeah, I mean, Anne, there's like you know, there's some corn fields and stuff, but around here, while I'm at a mainly hunting, you can't if you can see a hundred yards, that's that's a miracle. So you know, you really there's no classing from a vehicle or any of that. So it's it's a lot of hardwoods um, big oak ridges, pines um, and just stick nasty swamps. And we're right on the right on the Kanneaque River. So basically my backyard just goes for a quarter mile and drops straight down to the river. It's you know a lot of river bottom lands. And yeah, we have variety everything, but not much agg ground here at all. That sounds so, I mean so similar to what we kind of deal with here, where a lot of bermuda for hay production and cattle and uh we actually we used to be a lot bigger dairy country than we are now, but with the way that the dairy market is going, um, it's a lot of big dairies now more than it is small. So it's all turned into like tons of hate production, which you know, deer can can nose around and find something sometimes in it. But it's there's it's there's no glassing in the you know, there's no velvet scouting or whatever that you hear about. You know, it's uh in the same thing like creek bottoms and just nasty thick. We got lots of cedars and oaks and hickores and in hardwood type stuff. So it's it's is very interesting and exciting that we get to talk to you about this because we don't get to relate to a lot of people sometimes that but are pretty hard cool people. They stay thick, and they think thick is like, you know, you gotta kind of push through it and it's just not wide open. When I stay thick, it's like the prickers and briars you stop, you yeah, like you cannot move. Uh yeah, I know, I know about what that feels like. It's not fun. The other day we're actually sitting the trail came around public and uh, I hit it off down this thing that I thought was a deer trail, and it just fizzled out and then push through for probably five yards and then I turned around, looked at Tyler and said, ah, you know what, it just ain't worth it. We just turned around and found something else side, and it's just it's just too thick to even go through. And we found that the deer do use that stuff, but there are even places where they don't even like to go to. But uh, whatever you talk about a swamp um, I feel like that's a regional term that we all use, but it might mean something somewhere else. When you think about swamp, are you talking about a place that actually has water in it? Or is that like a creek bottom or something. Yeah, well when I say swamp, it's yeah, so it's uh it has water in it. It's just a nasty, nasty hole of you know, swampy water that can be up to your anticle and all of a sudden you step the wrong direction, you go up to your up to your chest and water so just nasty, nasty. You know, you're jumping around on the clumps of trees and just just to try to get through it. And that's like another reason it's so hard to find sheds. It's like, you know, they could just be anywery basically, only should you find around here the ones you step on. Yeah, yeah, just one. There's like swamps, Like I always say, that's like when I see a piece of property and it's all hard woods and then there's a swamp. That's the first thing I key in on. But then you talked about like swamps that are down by the river, river bottle swamps that are just a whole different world. Yeah. Yeah. Did you traditionally did you? I mean, like, have you grown up hunting this this kind of country in this area or is this something? Yeah? Okay, yeah, and so like did you I mean traditionally like in a cultural sense? Did you guys? Uh? I mean did you see how did you guys hunt when it goes there? Did you all do party hunting with shotguns? I know a lot of people in like thicker country will do that kind of thing, or dogs or or is it mostly just tree stand hunting or what? Um? I was kind of I was different growing up. My dad was he was a serious bow hunter. He didn't kill a deer of the rifle until like two years ago. Um, he is always a strictly bowl hunter, and he was like, traditionally you don't set the tree stand up, sit and wait, but I have a problem sitting still. So I killed more deer on the ground than I have out of a tree just still hunting. So I was always you know, the traditional set of tree stand. I'd sit in it and then you know, i'd just get aunty, all right, see a deer and I get down to take my boots off and no really stalking on my socks. And then and then I go back and move the tree stand if I was unsuccessful to the spot. So I was always always moving so and then and then obviously every gun season we had the big parties of we did deer drives and so both season was always super super serious for me. And then gun season comes around and that's the time to just you know, screw off with your bodies and just do a big deer drive and get as many deer in the freezer as you can. Yeah, do y'all, uh hunt antler a lot. And then the gun seasons kind of when you transition over into you know, getting meat. Um, yeah, so I guess it's all involved when I was younger, I killed every single thing I ever walked by, UM, because that's a lot of you can you can kill unlimited dose here wo and then for every three does you kill, you can get another earn a buck tech so you can you can. I would kill fifty deer year when I was younger, but then that got into you know, other obligations, not having time to what's your gears? So we do all our butchering ourselves. So early season I'll usually whack a couple of does, get them in the freezer, give them the landowners and um family and everything, and it's usually but like the last couple of years with the business, I've been so busy, you know, my family finally gets like October like, Drew, can you please kill some deer? So that's so like still hunting. That's a UM that's with a boat you're talking about, Craig, Yeah, And so you're just like with a rifle, like there's no way I can sit in a tree. I get so hansy. But with a bow, especially recrew incompound. Explain kind of like high level what that looks like, what that process looks like? What about UM? So my favorite favorite time in the whole entire season, the hunters this rain. So any time it's raining, all my buddies around here, no, I'm I'm hunting while they're at home. Um because obviously for the obvious reasons, it's quiet. Um, your sense getting washed away. So that's the time I poke around. But like still hunting to me is uh, either I know a spot where I know dear bed and now I can creep up on him if the wind's right and the conditions are good. But then there's also mobili hunting where I'm going into a piece property that I kind of know or I'm totally unfamiliar with, and I'll have a couple of steps in my pack. I'll have my saddle around my waist and my bow and the lines in line, and I'm just I'm scouting. I'm hunting, still hunting as I'm scouting essentially, And if I find a good spot, you know, I have a couple of hours before dark, I'll set up and then always remember that spot for coming back in the dark in the morning. So it's kind of a little bit of scouting and hunting still hunting at the same time. If you're you know, going into a predetermined spot where you know dear bedding. Uh, how long does it take you to kind of penetrate that area. I feel like you have to go super slow and probably do like some short range glassing and stuff like that, trying to pick out deer that are bedded. Yeah, it all depends on the properties. So I have a lot to a lot of the town and public properties. If I'm walking a walking trail, there is obviously known for people walking every day, I'll cruise. I'll just walk just like I'm just a dude walking that's totally oblivious to nature and just walk and it's amazing. So in the dark when I'm doing that, I'll be walking down a walking trail, and then you know, I'll use my a lot of guys walking in the dark, but I'll use a super high looming flash light and when I'll scan for eyes, and when I see eyes, I'll just hold that light right on that deer's eyes and just blow them up and walk right by them. Sometimes you walk right by him at twenty yards to keep it on him as you walk by, and you keep going. They have no idea what happened. Um. Then other times it could take me an hour or two hours, you could get to my stand and I'm only walking a hundred yards. So that's places where people the deer aren't you expecting people to be there? Yeah, that's cool. I like that. Man. It's uh one of those kind of like deer condition to humans. So I'm gonna stick with that. The deer, no, they know the difference between a threat and a non threat. So a guy walking is not a threat. But if you're creeping down the trail and they're used to people just blown by, that's a that's different. Yeah, you need to get some just tennis shoes and Nike shorts and cut off and just run down the trail, you know, maybe some headphones or whatever. Right, I'll even take my my bikes sometimes and just cruise. Yeah, that's cool. I've I've actually thought about that. Like, it's kind of amazing how quiet you can be on a bicycle if you've got like decent terrain, you know, or whatever. And like some of the public places around here, you'll have closed roads or whatever through it, and uh, man, you can creep along and sneak up on some stuff like that. I haven't done it a ton, but I've done it a few times, and it's it's crazy what you can drive up on right. Another tactic I use a lot is I'll just put a turkey call in my mouth and I'll walk and you know walk co feaks or scratching the leaves or all h just act like a squirrel. Like the woods. The woods are loud, so if the leaves are super crunchy and it's calm out, I'll just you know, tap my feet, walk, scratch around the leaves. Stop walk, tap my feet, you know. So it's like if they hear that's like, oh, it's just a squirrel or a turkey. Yeah, that's cool, man. So kind of that that whole like antsie kind of uh personality trait that you have there is kind of probably helped you develop, uh the style of hunting that I guess you're kind of known for now and the business that you've alluded to several times, which is wild Edge, and you have created something that case and I've been very interested in for some time now. Um and um that is the step system that you use. And I think that's really, um a cool thing because I can remember last year one of the last days of the season here in Texas. I think it was early January. We went in to a few different spots um trying to get on deer kind of lateness season, we didn't. All our spots at this point have been just pretty much blown out by either of us or other hunters, and so we're kind of looking for new stuff. We're kind of stalking through and you know, I'm carrying ten pounds of sticks um that are gonna get me, you know, anywhere from you know, probably fourteen to sixteen seventeen feet in the tree, depending on limbs and stuff that I can use, and and uh, it starts to wear on you. And also you know, having that big aluminum stand on your back with a little bit straps, you know, and everything else we carry camera gear and all that. It's just it's it's uh, it's definitely um intriguing to look at your system there. So can you kind of explain how how you came into those steps, how you figured out that was something that you want to start producing. Yeah, so it's actually I didn't I didn't come up with the steps. It was a man named Jim step He's a Vietnam Vet, and uh, he lost his legging in them, and he basically invented the step ladder. Jim's last name is steps t PP. He invented the step layer use machinist fabricator Walter Um just so he could climb a tree, but instead of using all alternate steps, he could put both feet on a single step, put the next step up, bring his good leg up, put and stand again both feet on one step. Um. He made a super compact and the design of step has not changed since he invented it. And I grew up hunting with instance. I was like fourteen UM, and we still hunt together to the day. And uh, when I got done traveling for work, I was getting little stick of traveling all over and got out of the army. And then he basically said take the business and run. So that's how wild they started. And then that evolved into UM saddle hunting, and our saddle and all our other products were basically founded on just the fundamentals of making everything simple. So simplicity of I'm not pulling, you know, sticks up the tree with ropes and I'm not you know, just I always wanted everything and super simple, and I found a way to always do things easier. UM. So if I come to a project I'm like, I can think, I know how to do it. What's the easier way to do it? What's a smarter way? So that's kind of how everything evolved, all our products, just focusing on the hunt and not trying to make climbing a tree complicated. Yeah, yeah, that's uh, that's kind of a neat way of looking at it, because man, we do make it so complicated sometimes with the big sticks and heavy tree standing and stuff. Did did the uh did the steps come along before the saddles or did they kind of come along about the same time. Uh? Yeah, when I started the business, Um, that's pretty much. So two when I I started saddle hunting seriously, And that's basically just because like I said before, and I found these spots along the river that access by kayak, There's no way in hell I'd be able to haul a tree stand in there. Um, and I only had to get you know, ten twelve feet off the ground. So I bought an old Arborus saddle and started using that that for a couple of years, and then developed relationship with arrow Hunter and now I use all arrow Hunter saddles, and uh, arrow Hunter is making our new saddle coming out this fall, cool man, So do you feel like, um, do you prefer a saddle in every situation over a tree stander? Or there times when you still like to have the metal tree stand. I don't use any tree stands anymore the last couple of years. It's like, you know, we have a lot of properties of family that my family hunts with me and friends and um relatives that come here to hunt. So I'm Mr Guide around here. So you guys want to hunt, you guys want hunting me, then you're using the saddle. Because even even in sets that I have that the steps day all year for a couple of years, trees that are always hunted, this saddle, just to me makes so much more sense. You have complete mobility three six year round the tree. And so many people look at it and they overthink and they think it's harder to shoot. It's easier to shoot out of a saddle and more natural than shooting out a tree stand because you're maintaining your key form as you're shooting, you're leaning out of it's tree. You're not worried about bending at the waist and all that. And you know everyone, everyone spends all summer shooting on level ground at a target, will you getting a tree stan. It's a whole different world where saddle hunting, just to me, feels so much more natural. You're controlling all your movement by your feet and your hips and your upper body and your hands are totally free. You're not worried about stepping off the platform. It's safer because you're attached to tree the entire way up and once you get up to the top, you're attaching your tether and then unhooking your lines in line, and you're just it's a safer, more convenient way, and you wear the saddle in, you wear it out. It's not a tree scent of stays in the woods, and it's super quiet, so it's you. It's not for everybody, um it definitely it's a little bit of learning curve. But to me and everyone. I've had buddies show up and the night before to go hunting. The next morning they never saddle hunted. I throw them in a tree the night before and they shooting at a target in the dark, you know, with truck lights, and the next morning they're killing deer out of saddle man. That's cool. That's that quiet aspect is another thing I was going to mention as well, because you know we did, uh two years ago we hunted a hunting a buck on public and kind of got blinded by just a nice buck, which doesn't always happen to us on trail camera here. And uh, you know, we were crossing a creek to to access the stand side, so we the creek was probably like forty ft across, so we had to have like a little tiny kayak and doing that in the dark with trying to balance like a fourteen pounds stand on the front or back and your bag and trying not to get wet, and man, it was it was a circus act in the mornings, you know, So just having a just having a saddle around your waist, oh yeah, your kayak and it's just And the other thing is you're not when your tree stand hunting. You gotta remember your safety harness and your teather tree stand, your sticks whatever meant that are climbing with the saddle. It is your safety harness, it's your tree stand, and it's your lines in the belt, so you cannot forget it. Yeah, for us, you're not be going in a tree so there's no there's none of that h I forgot my Safe'll be all right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's cool. What about so, so explain the steps because there's a lot of people that probably are listening. They're wondering what we're talking about with the steps. Explain how they look, how they work. So the steps are basically triangular piece if we look at it, with two points of contact at the top down to a pick end which is a v at the bottom. They all stack together in a bag um. So you could have eight steps that are literally, you know, the size of a six pack of beer, and they're the carry bag that they slip into and stack on top of each other and goes right around your shoulders. So as you're climbing, each step has a rope on it. As you're climbing, you pull one step out, both feet are on a step, and then you put the next one up and carry on going up the tree. So they're super simple, wicked strong. So one end of the step has a splice rope on it, probably a proply and rope, and you go around the tree and then you tie a simple little hitch um you find your tension, pull the step up and cam it over, kind of like a cam buckle, You pull that step up against the true get as tight as you can, and then you know, just you can feel where it's gonna cam over, go over center and lock in and then it's just sucked into the tree. So we've hung four wheelers by steps. There's picture online and me staying on the four wheeler held by one step off the ground. Wow. I picked up the front end of my mini excavator, the whole front end three feet off the ground of one step. They're super strong, super lightweight, compact. Each stepway is just under a pound. Wow. So you're you're getting how many feet for eight steps? Uh? You know I always tell people that just it all depends on the climber. Obviously I'm a monkey, so I could take eight steps and get twenty ft no problem all day. But that's kind of but it's probably not the safest thing to do. Yeah, I just like I said, you know, figure two two and a half feet apart a comfortable step, So feet was super comfortable climb and you're only carrying eight pounds and it's a tiny little bag. Is that like an ideal hot in a lot of situations for you as far as just bow hunting, like, do you like to be twenty ft or did you rather be lower? Yeah, so's a lot of guys that seems these days are so caught up on getting I have a couple of stands that stay all season there nosebleeds stands. But of my stands, especially when I'm mobile hunting, I'm twelve ft off the ground would be high for me because I do a lot of traditional bow hunting, So it's I don't want to be too high. And I've never really found the need because saddle hunting, you're not just standing on the tree. You're you can hide behind the tree, so you can hide behind the tree with the ear coming, and um, there's really no need for me to get super super high. Yeah, yeah, I got you. So let's talk about the kind of tree that you can use that step on. Uh, I got two different kind of ideas. But how small the tree will the step actually work on? Really? Anything over you know, eight ten inches? They can work on super small tree. So like when I trail cameras, I'll put them on you know, trees the side of my leg and uh, I'll get them ten towell feet off the ground and put the camera against the step, which creates a perfect angle and then so that the camera will be ten twelve feet up in the air. And then I'll carry one step in with me when I go to check the camera so I can get it at the camera. Um. So I've gotten so many more pictures of you know, mature deer never looking at the camera, so just walking right under it. And obviously other people can't see it too. But in other trees, I mean, we sell eight foot ropes. You can get around a monster tree, like you can't figure arms around to the six foot ropes, or for any tree you can basically wrap your arms around. Um. But we'll make any custom rope that a customer needs. And you know, like every every tree is different. Um, you can essentially climb any tree. I've climbed metal telephone poles um with the steps. But you know, like a pine with wicked, thick bark, you're gonna want to get that thing super tight and cam it, you know, suck into the bark. But like when I'm when I'm mobile hunting, and I'm gonna go up the tree and then a couple of hours I'm the right back down, I'm not worried about getting them super tight. The only step and worry about geting super super tight is my platform. So yeah, I was worried about that because we have, um the are we you know, we hunt in the Midwest a good bit too. And uh, last year we had some pretty pretty difficult situations with some cotton woods because a their giant and be their their bark is so rugged that you know, it's soft and big and thick and you know, so jagged that it's really hard to make a step kind of get in there and grab a bite because it's so ferried. You know, is there a way or a specific scenario where with the tree, like, let's just say a cotton wood in specifically, like, is there a way to make the step work very good on that bark? Yeah, So what you're gonna want to do is the biggest key of the step is making sure that both standoff when you go to candlem over, are gonna hit have equal pressure when you camming over. If one has more pressure, that one will dig in the other one ball. So it's super easy to steal with your ansool and I got pressure and then um, some trees. If you want to step super solid, I tell you guys, you gotta put a little testoster on into it. They'll put that step up above your head, like at your chest and just drop your body into it. And I mean you can get them super strong. Yeah. I mean, my my little sister hunts with me and she puts up her own stands. She gets them strong. There's sixty year old women that are climbing with these steps. And you know Jim Steps, he's up there in the seventies. He's still putting around trees. I mean it's I'm not saying you need brute force, but there's like that technique to find the right tension and came it over. So the steps aren't something you just take out the box and he's running the woods and you're just blasted up trees. You definitely need to practice a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You talked about the top steph Is that just another one of the steps or I think I've seen a product that you I have. It's kind of like the the top piece or something like that. Right, Yeah, So, uh, we have the perch, which is a platform basically a bigger step that attaches luminum um. It's under a pound. It attaches right to a step. So if you want a bigger platform or sadd hunting. Some staddle hunting the term is either have a ring of steps or a platform. So there's a lot of guys that get that want basically a bigger platform that's just like the basic tree stand, but obviously half the size to stand on, where guys like me, I'm more of a ring of step guy, So I'll put a step on each side of the tree and using my step as like a stirrup, because I don't want to just stand on a platform. I use put my heels in the step, or like when I have to take the hard shot, like as a right he's shoting to the right, I can pivot my hips and stick my toe into this step just like a stirrup as well, and I can move around. So to me, it's just easier. But that's all personal preference. So yeah, the purchase adds a little bit more room that you can stand on. How big are the steps? Because you're talking to a guy here that wears a size fourteen, and so like when you put a thousand, you know, Graham thin slit boot on, it looks hideous. I mean it's like I'm a clown up there, you know what? I mean yeah. So, well, the thing is when you're when you're climbing, you're both your feet are so as your climb is standing on one step, you're just basically standing on the step with your feet kind of out of the forty five standing on your heels. Um. But I mean the step is seven seven inches wide, so if you're putting the steps up just in a straight ladder, you're just putting like the front of your just like the ball of your foot, your toe, like the front of your foot on the step and climbing. Um. So it's it's super comfortable. It's like a lot of guys will stagger the steps, but I put them straight up in the lines that when I'm climbing up, I'm not searching for a step. I'm just blowing her up the tree. I got you. So, um, do you have most your weight in the saddle all the time or are you swapping back and forth where you're you're putting quite a bit of weight on your legs and then kind of you know vice versa every thirty minutes or so. Pretty much picture sitting in a hammock and then just having your feet dangle and you're just like pushing yourself around with your feet. Your feet have well there's your feet should not have much pressure on them at at all, so you're all your weight is cradled right there. So that's the point of well will saddle to hold all its weight there and then the whole point of the bridge bridge lane so you can create your comfort. There's guys there's they call leaners and sitters. So the guys that are UM leaners are just basically standing on platform and kind of leaning back at like a forty five where me, I'm a sitter. So I will I'll max out and I'll lean the way off the tree. So I'll basically just be you know, I'm three or four feet away from the tree and just my feet are just there to direct my body. There's literally no way on my feet. So okay. So the perch is just for for the city, the standard kind of guy, right, it's purchased for anybody. UM it basically it creates a bigger platform so that you can go all the way around the tree, so you can push against the side of the perch, the back of the perch. It's a it's just a bigger platform. UM, just a little bit of added comfort that's really all it is. But I mean, like I said, guys, platform guys, and they bringing step guys, whether that be screwing steps, bolts, you name it. I found the best platform in the whole entire world is a big branch. One step on one side, and the big branch because you have unlimited space too, you know, run your feet up that limb. It's along that line. Is there like a specific tree you're looking for, It's like, man, that is a saddle tree. Uh No that I mean the whole point of saddle hunting and the use of the steps is that any tree will work. Yeah. So if I'm finding the spot and going all right, closest trees right here, that's that's the tree I'm going in. I don't care the shape, the size, I don't care what it is. I'm gonna get up that tree. That's the whole advantage tree. Are you doing anything for like concealment purposes or But I can just feel like if you're sitting there the way you are, uh, and your body is three or four feet away from this tree, you look like a really big brown blob that's pretty far away from the tree. Well, the thing is you look like a limb because your feet are against a tree when you're shooting out from the tree instead of like we posted a picture like of our shadows. So it was a guy with my buddy sitting in his tree stand which was just coming straight off the tree at a nine, and then his big blob sitting in it, and then a picture of me in a saddle with the shadow and all you see my body just looks like a big, big limb coming off the tree. And the whole point of um, you know, obviously the perfect perfect set up if you're gonna hut most of the times of the trees to have you know, cover around you up in the branches. But when you're running gun and mobile hunting, it's just it's just whatever tree. But you use that tree to high so the deer coming at you from the north, you come to the south end of the tree and hide behind it. And so like when I'm filming, most of the time I'm watching the deer through my camera offside the tree, and I can't see the deer because the trees between me and them. So talk about like the shooting and filming and all that, like how does that? How does that work? When you're in a saddle set up. Um, it adds up, I said, it adds a little bit of complication to it. Just they do weird and in just things around the tree to get a shot. You also remember about the camera. But I always put the camera like down by my hip so that, um, it's right there. And if I had to, I could put my boat over the camera arm and shoot, so it's right there. I mean, it doesn't add much complication, but anything filming wise always adds somewhat of complication to it. Do you have the standard like camera arm it's like, you know, two twenty sections that pivot around or is it like a smaller condensed version. Um I have. I've built my own camera arms that attached the tree with a step. So it's a it's aluminium way as a pound and a half has h two pivoting sections in one solid section and I just put it against the tree, put a step, put the step on the other side of the tree, and use that rope and suck it right to the tree. Um. Matt from out on a limb just developed a new camera arm that I'll be using called the Assassin Reach. Um. That is freaking awesome. It's a super small, lightweight. You can fit the whole arm right in your pocket, a luminum, it's a it's a pretty sweet deal. So that's what I'll be using now. That's cool. Yeah, we were we were actually last year, we were at a t A and we were trying to like find somebody who was making the short camera arm for like saddle hunting and stuff like that, and we couldn't find anybody. So it's kind of cool to hear that news man. Yeah, it's it's a game change through what he did, for sure. So how do you let's talk about the shot from a saddle? Okay, because that's that's the that's the end we're all trying to get to, right, is to shoot the deer. Yeah, and you've kind of already explained it, like in general, you're always trying to hide behind the trunk from the deer. That's what you're that's what you're trying to do. But how where are you trying to get your shot? Is it kind of like that standard forty five off your left if you're right handed shooter, or what does that shot look like? I wouldn't say I'm always trying to hide behind a tree I'm just saying like, that's just an advantage. Okay, So you know I'm not saying every time deer coming, I'm like, hide in behind a tree. Look a squirrel, no meal, just watching it. But if the deer is being a little, you know, a little jerk, then I take it in in a different stecument, like, okay, I gotta It'll be more cautious. Or if I'm only eight ten ft off the ground, you guarantee I'm hiding behind that tree. Um So, But to the answer your question, it's as a righty shooter, holding your bow on your left hand, you the easiest shot is shooting your whole left, so hunder a degrees to your left. The hard shot is shooting to the right. So you can either go around the tree to shoot to the right, or you can spin your body around and put your back against the tree. You can bring your boat over your bridge and kind of shoot to the right that way. Um So, anybody can get a saddle and as a right he shoot to the left. That's a breeze. It's the whole point, Like, shooting is natural, but the thing you need to learn is how to contort your body and how to move your body using your hips and your feet to get to those hard shots, so that right the righty shooting shooting to the right, coming over the bridge. Like that just sounds like like how do you get your hips around? I mean, are you're just like kind of you're basically like pushing with your left foot against the tree and like your rights dangling or whatever. So a saddle has your bridge loop to come off your hips, your left and your right, and then has a bridge a piece of rope that's connecting those two points. And then you have that rope is connected to a carabaner which is connected to your tether or your sling wine going around the tree, just holding to the tree so that bridge. As you turn your hips, that bridge will slide, so slide through that carabean um. So it's super easy to just roll your hips and your saddle stays exactly where you're supposed to, and then your feet are doing are basically just stabilizing your body so you don't lose control and spin around. So sounds a little complicated, but it's it's super easy. So I mean, if you're looking, if you're say you're on the opposite side of a deer of a tree as a deer is coming down the trail and the deer comes uh, kind of under you pretty close range off to your right to where you can't really can't really see the deer to get a shot until he's you know, say, almost at a ninety Are you better off just like kicking around to the left and shoot him after he passages by you? Or how does I mean? What what do you? What do you do in that situation? So if he was on the right side and I was facing the tree, so he was on my hard side taking straight down, I would turn. If I'm staring at the tree, I would turn to the left and I turned my entire body and shoot him right there instead of trying to go over the bridge, because that creates a lot more motion, and it's hard because you have a bow with an arrow at the end of the broad So like when I'm hunting with my recurve, that's to bring the recurve around your bridge is an arrow on it, you know, recurve that's five long. It's it's hard. So I would most likely go to the left. Yeah, you're in my body and should basically just be like pushing off the tree at you're like for real ninja at that point in time when you're doing that, I mean you're like hanging off the tree shooting at you. That's yeah, definitely feel like one. That's cool. Well, uh, in that scenario or in in a lot of these scenarios. I'm just thinking about, like standing flat footed here in the driveway like we were an hour ago, Tyler and I were shooting. Um, it's pretty hard to pull up and just have a perfect you know, level bubble and everything right off the bat. Do you feel like in a saddle that is something you have to pay more attention to, is the cant of your bow and and all that not. I wouldn't say so. I mean it comes natural. Yeah, It's just it comes natural. And the more you praise, it's just like you canna have a treesting, you gotta practice right. But shooting those saddle just you ask anybody that saddle hunts, they say it feels completely natural, more natural than a tree stand, especially those close shots. Yeah, because you're able to go off the tree like you're standing on level ground right instead of bending hard and her form. I wouldn't say I ever look at my level on my bow, but got you know. So I mean, so okay, so same situation here, Like the deer is coming down a trail towards your tree, is gonna end up going off your right. Do you ever follow? Do you ever like follow the deer? Uh? And kind of like swing around as it's coming past you on the right and kind of try to gain that advantage shooting on the left side of the trunk. You know what I mean, Like, do you have that ability? If I had time, I would, you know, play it out. Okay, if he's gonna come, it looks like he's gonna come to the right side of the tree. But right now I'm not going to swing around and get ready because if then he goes to less out of the tree, I'm gonna have to move again. So you know, i'd play it out. If he was just coming in, he was just had no care in the world, but was going around what was going on, I'd make a quick move and make it happen. But I mean, sometimes you can play it out and get ready, but really you're not moving a ton, So it's just knowing how to move around the tree with your feet and where to put your bowl. Really, I feel like that's what settle hunters would call the squirrel strategy. There always go on the other side of the tree and sneaky. So um, what about dudes who are built like me and maybe a more exaggerated version where you have a ton of upper body weight compared to your lower body. I just feel like it's a disaster weighting to happen because you'd end up upside down. How does that not happen? I don't know because I'm not a big dude, but I mean a trade shows, we've had guys that are three fifty plus, I mean big hoss ethics archery. He's he's on the pole in Iowa. He's three sixty seven something like that, and he was jumping around on that pole. I mean he was moving around like he was hunting that. Uh. When we were in Alabama a couple of weekends ago, I mean, same thing, big big dudes where you know they're looking at them. No way. Did you have to look real hard to find big dudes in Alabama walking around in there? It was yeah, okay, what about two dudes? All right? So Tyler and I hunt is a pair quite often. Uh usually in a cameraman hunter situation is are we gonna be in the same tree. Are we gonna be in different trees next to each other? No, same same tree. We do all the time filming buddies. I mean, when we first started, we have one camera, so obviously one guy would be filming, one guy to be hunting, so we'd have true saddles, or we have a tree stand, I'd be in the saddle, or but now it's no tree stand. So it's and like when my buddies coming from town that I grew up with, and I've a long time, I just hopped in the tree with them, just a just a hunt with them. And you have two guys. Are all be the truth of my sister? All the time? We have two guys. And sometimes we have two guys in there and we'll each have a boat. Yeah, so what's the configuration? Lie, Are you know, on the same plane or is the one guy higher than the other or what I say? It all depends on the spot. But a lot of times, like a bigger tree will be on the same plane. Um, if I'm filming, I'll get above him. Um. But you know, I guess it really all depends. But we've we've done it at all, and it's put the caravan on the right side usually or is there I mean, definitely give the shooter the his strong side for sure. Um, but i'd see most of the time I'm if I'm just filming, I'm above him. Um. Or if we're just hunting together and we both our bows, and I'll put my buddy whose less experience and saddle on the left side so it has a good side, and then I'll take the hard side. Do you hook into the same tether? No, each have your on Okay, all right? So what okay? So if you're hunting above him, is it ever weird? Like do you feel like like your butts in his face, your feet are all up on his you know, his gear and stuff just super super easy to make the hunt fun because you start dropping stuff on and kick and parking space. I mean, yeah, your boots together and spread some mud over him. Yeah, it just feels like you might be stepping on like his grunt call and stuff like that, hanging from the tree, you know. I mean, I've had trees where we're both sharing, you know, my left foot and my buddy's right foot. We're sharing the same step, you know. So it's it's cute and you know, a smaller tree, the more movement. Obviously you're making that tree move. Yeah, it's not like you're true thing where you just spin around a little sirt on the platform when you're hanging off the tree. If there's a small tree, I'll be careful because you know a little adjuster in that tree is freaking moving right. Yeah, on a still day, that could be. I could see it as being an issue for sure. Yeah, what do you do with your stuff? Like your pack and you know, just food and stuff. You pretty much your pack and all this stuff in it, Like where are you hanging that? Yeah, so I hang my pack right against a tree, so I'll hang with a So my step was always attached my camera, so I have a step right there, so I'll clip my bag right to that. Or if I don't have that convenience, I'll just take my backpack and strapped around the tree with the waist belt and chest belt and so my bag is right there. So if I need, you know, my water bottles right there, in my grunt callets right there, or you know, cargo pockets are essential when you're hunting out the saddle because you lose your normal pockets because they're in the saddle, your back pockets because you're sitting, so cargo pockets are essential. Um you know, ankle pockets, you name it, or a'll wear like a chest pouch um or like even a pocket in your chest is super essential. Something I look for every time I'm wearing a jacket. You could say twenty saddle hunters to have the same equipment and tell them we go climb a tree. They're all going to do it a different way. That kind of the cool part. There's, like, you know, there's no standard. It's you have. You have a climbing system, a saddle and one or two ropes, and your backpack in your belt, I mean, and whatever else you bring. So the way I cashed my bag totally different. Or if i have a tree with a crotch and I'll just stuff my bag right in there. It's I'm always super simple when it comes to that stuff. So I'll either do it on the fly or I'm always trying to figure out what's the simplest way. Do I really need this giant backpack? Do I really need all these extra gadgets? So in general, when you're talking about extra gadgets and just like all the stuff you gotta bring. You've probably done a little math on this or you have an idea. But if you just think back to your old tree stand days versus like the setup you have. Now, what's the weight difference in what you're carrying in? Well you gotta I mean you figure what's the lightest tree stand is like nine, but mine's think thirteen. Most of them are at twelve. And so you take uh, like figure our saddle, it weighs two pounds and you're not carrying it. That saddle is born around your way, so you don't. You can just exclate that because it doesn't even matter when it replaces your your safety harness so exactly, and then I carry it with that saddle. A lot of guys will carry two A so carry lines in line to climb the tree, and uh sling liner tether to attach your bridge to the tree. I that's just too much for me, So I'll take one rope. They'll have like mechanical prus sic gun like the cong duck or just a normal prustick or a blake hitch on that one rope that's my lines in line to climb up. I have an actually carabineer that's around my bridge. When I get to where I want attach my sling line, I just hook that carabean right to a step, so I'm attached to the tree, detached my lines and line that becomes my sling line. So I literally have a saddle, one rope, two or three carabineers, which are ounces loon carabineers, my backpack. The only reason I have a backpack is for a water bottle of my camera gear. I have a drunk call and the range finder my butt. That's it. Yeah, so you know you're talking. You take away that thirteen pound tree stand, and then I have my set of steps, which the most I'll carry when I'm over hunting is six or eight, So there's six or eight pounds. Yeah. Wow. So you go from pounds carrying a tree stand and anything else can drastically drop it down to you know you're told to set up is around eight pounds pounds, and then that's the kind of the thing you can't factor as well as the bulk, right, I mean, I'm not. I'm not like my sister had eight t so she's and this is you know, they're drilling holes in her toothbrush. I mean there's guys that saddle hunt that they are so worried about weight, where it's like me, the difference in a couple of pounds, that's that's nothing to me. I really don't care. I'd rather simple and comfortable then shaving off two pounds, especially when and I like compact, so if I'm caring four or five steps, that's literally you know, eight inches by seven inches in a little bag. Yeah, I'm glad you said that too, because that's kind of how Tyler and I look at things. Like, man, Tyler is a former college football player. I work construction, Like we can tough some stuff out. You know, a couple of pounds is not that big of a deal. I'm not trying to be a tough guy or anything, but like, honestly, I'm obvioste of that because if it makes me more comfortable when I get where I'm going, I'm all about it. You know, Like I'm gonna pack the extra heavy sleeping bag in to go hunt on a wilderness hunt because I want to be warm. I don't want to make it through the night. I want to I like sleep through the night. You know, that's a different thing, and it's the same way with with deer hunting, like they make lighter stands or whatever. And honestly, I've got a pretty good sized platform stand because I kind of like the big platform. But something we complain about all the time is that, man, the thing is a good four inches wider than my shoulders on each side, and that nothing sounds more unnatural in the woods than metal. Oh yeah, and it's clanking. Every time you walk through something that clanks. So I'm usually crawling and I'll get to a spot where it's like, I'm thinking, how the hell am I gonna get through that? And I find a way because it's just my body. I don't have metal on my back, which and when I when I get to the tree, everything's super quiet. Nothing can make noise because I'm not ratchets, strap thing or everything is. When I start my climb, I never come back down until I'm done hunting. Everything is on my body right there. I'm not pulling anything up off the ground. My bows even on my body. When I get to the top, I cast my each other, I take my backpack off, it hangs on my saddle, and then I take the camera gear out, my bows hanging, then my hang my bowl on the other side of my saddle, you know, get everything tweaked without much motion or extra effort. Yeah, man, it makes so much sense. I count I mean the one I think one thing that's also kind of a reservation for a lot of guys. Uh, I mean, I know it is for me in casey just being blue collar or whatever you want to call us. But um, you know, this is the price of the whole system. And what I mean what is your system? Like, what's about around about price for you know, eight eight steps and the saddle, Like what are you looking to spend to get into that eight steps? You're looking at bucks, um, hundred thirty bucks and then for a saddle you're looking at two anywhere from sixty nine. So it's an investment, should say, with everything you need to climb and hunt out of saddle, you're talking five or bucks. Yeah you know that. But that five bucks if you're mobile hunting, that's all you need. And that saddle is gonna last you for the rest of your entire Life's not You're not gonna wear out a tree stand, and it's it's all in one, like says safety, harness lines and belt and your tree stand. So it's an investment that it's a birthday in the long run. Yeah, I guess that makes you don't need you don't need thirty tree stands exactly. Yeah, that's the that's the that's the thing when you start totaling in how many tree stands you buy through the years and leave somewhere and forget about or a tree falls and breaks it or whatever. You don't deal with that, even if you're buying, uh, you know, sixty dollar tree stands or something. Yeah, it's gonna end. It's like all those those twenty three dollar you know, Dick Sporting, those Walmart tree stands you can buy that you leave in the woods, and then a couple of years later, you know, I've had tree stands that you look at you like, dude, that thing doesn't look health Yeah, that need to stop on that platform. And those tables just bust. It's like where the saddle. It goes in with you and it comes out with you. Then going with you, come out with you. It's it's your lifeline. So it's protective. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's cool. Now that's cool man. I think it's it's something that's definitely worth taking a look at. I mean, I don't know. I feel like if a fella did his research, she could definitely justify and figure out why it's a good idea. You know, the only thing, the only person who doesn't really need a saddle be the one who hunts from the ground. So and you can wear saddle while doing that, right. So, I mean there's the beauty about today is there's a wealth of information. I mean, you go to um like our Facebook page, saddle up. You go there and you can find anything everyone to know about saddle hunting. YouTube. Um. You know, there's just a wealth of information out there. Um. You know, anyone, anyone that saddle hunts is more than happy to help out a newcomer. Yeah, and that's a that's a big point man and Tyler. I've been talking about this the last couple of weeks, Like we live in such a cool age where every bit of information, mostly that you would want to know about something is at your fingertips, right and you can figure out new ways to do things Like I didn't know saddles existed before the Internet. I didn't even know it was a thing. You know, nobody on TV hunting them because I don't know, they just like to sit in the tree stands and get sponsored by folks. But like, uh, it's such a cool thing that, like you know that these things exist and there's people in Connecticut that are doing it. It's like, hey, actually where they hunts a lot like where we hunt. Maybe we should try that out, you know. And it's just something and this and it kind of goes along with a direct consumer market thing to like we're we have such a cool opportunity to not have to deal with you know, like corporations trying to say the thing is the best thing to do when we can really just go out and purchase a product on our own and decide if we like it or not. You know, it's it's kind of cool how you can how you can make all that. And then it's also kind of the American dream on your part, where you've developed a product that's gonna work and people want it. So unless you do what you love to do, it's cool. Man. Yeah, it's a wealth of information out there and it's instant information from too, which is a cool part. I don't know how the deer survive. We are to be killing them all the time. It's the it's the lack of woodsmanship that most people don't understand. Yeah, and when you you say that, I automatically flashback to not knowing anything except the pre sicts not you started listening off other nots. I was like, oh, I don't know what those are. To look those up? So did you improve my ship? My? My biggest thing is I always tell people don't overcomplicate it. Yeah, you know, you may look at something like saddle hunting, what in the world you know, don't overthink it it is. It's like tying your shoes. Yeah. Yeah, well it's good, good advice, man. Good. I think that's a good way to probably wrap this thing up. Drery. We appreciate all this uh knowledge man, and and what you're trying to do for the deer hunting community. And I guess the last thing I do is give the opportunity just to send some of the listeners to see what's going on with the wild edge man. Yeah. No, I appreciate you guys having me on and anyone can find us while the Drink dot Com our Facebook paid while Drink Instagram YouTube, um, and if you're answering the saddle hunting just check out the Facebook page Saddle Up Cool man, Well, reach out to also on Instagram, Facebook. We'd love to answer any questions you know, for sure, Man, I'll link to all that in the show notes. So if you're listening, go check it out. Drew. We appreciate it, man. Good luck this year. I hope you get to put in some preseason work and uh I can take a little break from business at some point this year. Well, thanks for having me on. Guys appreciate it. Yes, sir, Well, I know I had a bunch of like just stupid questions probably, but Drew was it was game for it all man. He gets some good answers and I like it. I like guys that are like practical and you know, make their comment and I mean he's just like a natural on the podcast. Yeah, for sure, we'll have to have him back on to talk other things like just like Northeastern hunting and that kind of thing a little more. So. Yeah, for sure. He's he's a cool dude, and he comes he's kind of like us, comes by honest and worked hard his whole life and he's a veteran you know, and appreciate that and the that he uh kind of seems like he's a dreamer. But he's a guy who like, uh takes hold of what he's after, you know what I mean, Like he wanted to do this thing with wild edge, and he's doing it. It's really awes I think that, you know, after talking to him, I'm gonna go check out their social a little bit and uh look at really how the system works is I've never like, really you know me, I like to fiddle with stuff. I've never put my hands on the saddle very much. I talked to it, got a t a who had one on. I didn't really want to like put my hands on it. I would like to put my hands on one real quick. But I think I think they're neat man. I think it would be practical for what we do. I think they're cool. Yeah, for sure. I mean it's it's something you and I've looked at for several years. And like I said at the beginning this podcast, you know, it's one of those things like you're building the system, uh, and it's always going to change, you know, here and there. But some years you gotta have the twelve year old bow, some years you gotta have the twelve year old stand, and so like hopefully this year maybe we can up our stand game a little bit. Yeah, you know that would be cool too, because a lot of times you and I are talking about, especially with owl hunt, like not really being there a whole lot to like have spots picked out, uh, and maybe not even understanding really how dear you use the landscape up there? I mean, dear dear, But they're going to do different stuff in different places. Um, it would be cool to have everything you need with you comfortably walking around with a bow in your hand and suddenly saying, you know what, this is where I need to be. It's raging in here and I haven't seen a foot human foot print print and you know a half mile like this is where it need to be. Yeah, and you don't like, you know how the big mile back? You know that that's the public land thing. Big deal, My all go three miles you know if you if you've got eight pounds worth of stuff with you, a big deal. That's the thing. And we were talking. We were actually did a ton of map scouting yesterday. It was one of those days where it was you know, nine thousand degrees and nine thousand percent humanity, and we were like, you know what I think today, let's just map scout, and so we did, and we plugged it in on the TV, you know, at HTMI cable and went to town, uh, looking at all our dots and making some new ones. And we talked about spot yesterday that was like about a mile and a half back um in Iowa there, and I was like, man, you know, that's just that's a haul back in there, you know, in all honesty and not that I'm not willing to do it, but it's like, well, you could kill one forty you know, relatively easy in Iowa, you know what I mean, like half from the truck, you know what I mean? Yeah, where it is a half mile from the truck, because there's a lot of deer and there's a lot of great habitat within you know, range of a truck or of a parking lot half mile. So anyway, uh yeah, we were like, man, should we I mean, you can make it easier with a kayak, But then how do you launch a kayak because parking lots in a weird spot, you know, and just all these different things, and if you had like an eight pound system, uh, it wouldn't really be nearly as bad of a walk as you do when you have twenty four pounds or whatever, like straight up your camera arm and camera way more than what your tree stand does. And that it's pretty cool. Man, it's pretty cool. But I can't wait for white Tail season right now. We were shooting the bows earlier and all you kept saying like, man, I'm just ready to shoot something for real and not this plastic stuff. I just get this like vision every once in a while where I can like almost just feel it, like I'm like, I'm there. You know. It's like it's like early November and there's a deer that I'm shooting that instead of a target. And because you watch The Lion King last night and y'all think, can you feel the hunt tonight? I think that's it. Man. Plus those those animals look really really extremely real. Every time I see an animal, a four legged creature, like find the crease, like that's where I put it. Yeah, almost say that on that black squirrel we just saw. I did. I said, I'm gonna put the beat of the shotgun on your head below you have the tree. No, but like it's it's kind of bad, like even the family dogs and stuff. I'm like right there, and you know I don't actually want to kill them, but I'm thinking a dog is a good thing because especially like that big lab main laws have. He's the size of a deer. He's on thirty pounds, he's big, and it's like, Okay, that's about the right size, you know, and you just kind of find the spot, you know whatever angle then you're like, I couldn't make that shower. It's funny. It's well, he's about the same size as the deer around you know, bug around here. Whatever. Yeah, though it would be like smaller than it's crazy. Well cool man, Uh I guess last thing I would kind of say, here's uh oh. We did put out an ELM and Eval video in case you haven't seen it. It's of a trail camera really nice trome if you're looking for like a nice tro camera. Um we did the best camera that we've ever used, and we did a review over it, which is the excess left too, and uh so go check that out if you're like looking up your game and you don't want to buy like a bunch of sixty dollar cameras that hardly work. Uh this this camera is awesome. So it's something that like if you have private property or whatever, like it's a great opportunity for you to uh really kind of monitor your herd really well. I feel like I can have tons of options, So yeah, check that out, um, as well as I'm gonna keep trying to put together some videos of the trip that I was on here over the next couple of weeks, and then we'll have a PLC that uh at the time that this is released, you guys will be able to view that new PLC. It's not crazy cool, but there was a really cool like kyoty encounter we had like three yards or whatever. Um, So there was a couple of cool things going on and just like us generally talking about our strategies and uh thoughts and as we're and also as we're kind of like scouting a new property and hanging trail cameras here in Texas. So anyway, just some interesting things that might be going on there. And then also don't forget the gear review or the the podcast review where we're doing Gear giveaway for thank you for all of you so appreciate the hundred thousand downloads. Guys, UM give us a review and you'll have you'll be in the running for all Then the Gear we're giving away, So just don't forget that. I know you remember it from the beginning of the podcast. Anyway, casey, any thing else, man, dude, I just hope everyone's trail cameras are lighting up with big velvety bucks. Um. And I hope those bucks actually stick around for the season, because a lot of times they don't. So anyways, it's a lot of funny pictures. But don't get your hopes too high, except get your hopes real high, because this season is gonna be awesome. That's it, man, I mean, and honestly, like somebody's getting trail camera pictures of bucks right now. They're gonna be the ones you shooting November about. That's right. Somebody's taking a picture of it somewhere that's excited. That's the best part about like we talked about it, that's the best part about hunting is like the mystique of like having something come in that you've never seen any November seven, you know whatever. So anyway, I hope you guys are having a great summer. And uh, we appreciate all the support we've had with the Bad Country series and just this one and all the growth that we've seen Thank you guys for spreading the word and remember this is your element living in