00:00:08 Speaker 1: This is me eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You can't predict anything presented by on X. Hunt creators are the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the Hunt app from the iTunes or Google play store. Nor where you stand with on X. I'll tell you what I'm cooking right now. If you want to know my new um invention. Yes, it's you take the two legs off a turkey, okay, thighs and drumsticks. You stick them in a big old pot like a lock crusade dutch op and type pot, and then uh, capping with water, just covering with water. You know order this is going. But then you put in a whole ton of garlic, don't do anything to it, just peel it, any quartering onion, put it a whole ton of hoistened sauce, bullion, salt, pepper, and a whole ton of ginger. Oh, then putting your oven at two seventy five all day long. And oh you know the fact that I used to kind of think that adding all kinds of junk to your braising liquid didn't matter. It was stupid. I mean I used to like put my pants and I was a little kid too, Like people change over time, but uh, some people that was indefensible position. You cannot make up for it later. So how are you serving that stuff? Well, the problem is you pulled out and you think you're gonna make something with it, but you just eat it all like that. That's all right, Yeah, I just eat it all like that. The minute you can tear it apart with a fork, I think you're going like street tacos. Well that was the intention, or you put it on sandos, make barbecue sandwiches and stuff like that. God's just good like that tonight? I got it right now. I just pulled out of my oven. What do I think about doing? Is um just setting that whole thing down on the tabletop. Oh yeah, just be like digging. Watch the bones so good. I did the the old street taco last night with turkey legs. Why were you on the street No kitchen taco, kitchen taco, backyard taco. But you cook the legs, legs and thighs pulled it. You know what else? I got in there with my thing? What I haven't sampled you as I threw a hunk of bear scrap in there, just a scrap of bear meat, just to see just when you made your tacos, would you put on them as far as like fictions fixings, Yeah, some avocado, some um, a little bit of lime, um, some onion, some taco sauce, um, sour cream, not even real fancy. If you really want to please your woman, Seth, what I would do is pick the meat. Yeah okay, lightly tossed it with some oil and kind of fluff it up so it looks like a little bird's nest. Stick it under your broiler, then put it on your taco. That's what I usually. I didn't do it last night because it's been lazy, but usually I payan fry it then. Oh yeah, um the uh chew picabra seasoning, the green taco seasoning which brought these kids thinks too spicy. That's right. Every kid on the planet thinks that's too spicy. Mine, don't kids have no problem with tough little kids. You get that stuff into the air in the kitchen, it'll definitely put you down. Um, but really, oh yeah, absolutely, just you're just like inhaling it. Free floating particles can picture that, um, I tossed elk shank and that stuff, threw it on the grill, got it all looking nice, and then through that and the suvie for like a long time, twelve plus hours, and then pulled it out once. My My test for a shank and the suvie is to try to find where the tendon is coming out all clear. And if you can poke that tendon and it just kind of splits apart and forms around your finger, then the elk shank's done. Now do you always grill pre suvie? Well, you know, I told you had the antelope neck in there too, and I didn't grill it prior to I just threw it in the bag. And and I'm wondering and if that's why it took that, because when you charter something, it's supposed to create like the what is that my yard process, which is uh, you know, it's starting to break down. Not familiar with it. Um, So I'm wondering if growing the shank accelerated the shank breaking down that much faster than the antelope neck that had already been in there for twenty four hours, and the shank got done faster than the antalope neck anyway, pulled the shank out, uh, pulled all that meat and dusted at real heavy with the chio picabra green taco. And I'm still working our way through our spice kit by the way, and it's kind of like welling alphabetical son of a gun. That's good. Um. And put some of that way goo bee fat in the skillet and crisped it up that way. That makes a mean kitchen taco. Yeah. Actually, Maggie came over and filmed in the garage a gun set up video that we did, and so I got a feed her kitchen tacos and she enjoyed. She approved good. Yeah, all right, that's good stuff. Um, so let's talk about my my draw. I drew them out and go tag real quick, um, not real quicklation. Steve just got word today and I was unsuccessful. I just got word today. How many years did you put in? Well, I was putting in before they even came out with bonus points. Approximately what year did you start more than half your life? No? Yeah? Better? Not only um was he good at math, but just like has a real way of making it feel profound. You're right, half my life, yeah, Drew, But check this out. My brother moved to this state. Granted he never moved way, he just stayed put. He moved to this state right when I did. Okay, In that in that time, he drew Mountain, goat Moose. There's like, I should give you a little background. There's three tags that are real hard to draw. Here. I mean there's all kinds of special units. But in the state of Montana there's three Moose, sheep and gold are like real hard to draw. In most days all over the West, moose, sheep and go hard to draw U. And the time that I've been putting in so so, he drew goat moose, big horn, go again. Okay, and I drew finally go. And when he draw, when he dream out and go the first time he had to go, wait seven years to start all drawn again and waited seven years draw another damn go take. Yeah. I think he's quite applying now, right. He's taking himself barely. Even when he drew his last go tag, he barely even went yea, he half asked it. But he's doing that not because he's kind of over it, but because I think he thinks he feels like he should take himself out of the running, right, really he told you that. I don't know. So he's just bored of it. He's like what it was like. He was like, I'm gonna get it elk, then I'll go get him out. He wanted to get it out. But I'm saying he don't think he's participating anymore in the draws. He's still applying for sheep again. I thought the story was he yanked himself out because he's already already done it. So did he get the second go? No, he didn't really care. He got his once in a lifetime tags taken care of. If you don't care, I guess, don't apply. I'm chexting them right now in case people are wondering what happened to the host. But they're not. They're not once in a lifetime in Montana, obviously for most people. They are. You can you can talk to that point. Yeah, I'm gonna have to have a long life, a long, long, ppable life, so now. But but the point being, you're you're all upset about how you've been putting in and never drew. But they didn't start doing that. They didn't start doing bonus points until until later. Well. Yeah, and and to the state of Montana. So what year did you really put were you really putting in before I was? Were you really putting in back? And you're wrong, You honestly did put in years. Yeah. I mean I've been putting in since I was able to apply, right, unless my dad was just totally screwing with me lying yeah, he's like a son. I didn't give you any allowance because I put you in for a goat u. Um. Yeah, but yeah, I mean the whole bonus point thing. I just hate that that's even a part of the conversation. We've already talked about that. It's the worst thing Montana's ever done to people, other than let nonresidents apply. You know, they should be ashamed the whole state. Um. You weren't saying that tune when you were living in Idaho and still applying over here, were you. Yeah? I mean, honestly, here's where I screwed myself a little bit too. I was so disgusted and heartbroken and ashamed to call myself Montana. Uh, due to the fact that we instituted a bonus point program that's not even really a bonus point um that I refused to even purchase them. A few years, which you know only hurts myself. Why is it not at true? What you were so upset you quit drawing? No, I had applied, but I wouldn't get the bonus point. Huh yeah makes zero? Can you real quick explain to people what a bonus point is the case they're curious, and then to explain why you would, um, why you would do that to yourself? And then three why it's not a bonus point? You know what they call it that? And for what system you prepare? Uh? Order again, I'm gonna go from from top to bottom. What system I prefer? What is it we're talking about? Um? So, a bonus point is basically a uh something that instead of putting your name in the hat once, you put your name in the hat twice. If you have a bonus point, yeah, go for it. I hate it so much. I mean it's just stupid. Let's say you have a uh let's say the interest in the resource outweighs the source and you have, um you have You've determined that you can kill ten mountain goats out of a mountain range without damaging the population. But there's a hundred people that are like, I'll go, well, you gotta pick ten of them. So they picked ten of them by having a drawing, and now all hundred of those people sending an application, they send ten of them a tag. What happens the other ninety people, They say to them, but here's a consolation prize. You get a bonus point. So the next year, we do the same thing all over if you pay an extra two dollars give me. If you give us two dollars dollars or ten dollars or fifty years next year and we do this all over again, you'll get an extra point, meaning your name will be in the hat two times next year because you're a loyal customer. Ten years goes by. This guy is like, I still have a drawing in these damn tags. You're like, well, I guess what, buddy, your name goes in the hat now ten times because you've tried ten times. And that keeps some whipper snapper who hasn't been with the program and hasn't been participating from coming in and gobbling up tag out from under a guy who should be getting some preferential treatment for the fact that he's a return customer. Doesn't Montana square them, not at first. Now they square them, so when I send my stuff in, I'm in there like fos, which I love the fact that you guys are like so excited about it, right because it's like, oh gosh, free here tomorrow. Okay, So, now, what's what's wrong with the system? You think it should be the young waper snappers come in and have the same rights as as a repeat die hard sticking to it, long time supporter conservationist conservationist. What I think is, once you draw a tag, you should be done if you are successful, so it's more of a once in a lifetime thing and then that just accomplishes. Okay, but that's not what we're talking about. Um. That was question number four on this topic. I believe, um. Yeah, And and I think this idea of like accruing points when everybody else is on the same points system and then everybody's points gets squared at the same time, and it's just adds a bunch of bureauq cradic crap to this system. The whole the systems bureaucratic. Yeah. By definition, it's put on by a bureau and then folks like me who just like to think about hunting in the outside and enjoying life have you started thinking about math in regards to you don't get to write down how many times you ought to be in there. Um. We were on a conversation today, right Sam Longern, And uh, he's like, yeah, it's the first year that I really gotten the nitty gritty And I started comparing all the units and all the bet and I found out that this one gives me a one point nine percent chance of rying. And that's the unit where I drew the tag. It's like, oh boy, that first you made me hate moose hunting, and then you got a moose tag that great. Um, dude, To be honest with you, cow this is like, I mean, it's in the best possible way, but the criticism you're given is like it just sounds like, um, what's the word I'm looking for, oldge whining. Oh listen, I'm not gonna stand up there and say I'm the I'm the smart guy in the room for not buying into the system. Like, uh, everybody else, who'd I can walk off the bridge? They saw somebody else walk off the bridge. Um, hey, there's a lot of stages. Yeah, there's states they don't do it like they don't do it in Alaska, which is a great state to you know, do through the permit, Idaho, New Mexico, Wyoming, goats and Buffalo. Still, yeah, Montana for bison. My approach on it. They don't do bonus points for bison. No, it's as far as I know, it's all everyone in the same chance, which is a lottery, which is what pure lottery, which is what you prefer. Yeah, everyone's got the same chance. And you think the minute, let's say it is pure lottery, it's pure lottery. You think the minute someone goes in and reads the provided pamphlet, and the provided pamphlet gives you the percentage chances you'd have of drawing a tag, that not only ruins the draw but it ruins the hunting for that species. No, it doesn't. I just don't like having that stuff forced upon me. And I've run into so many people in the hunting industry where it's like that's their brand, and it's like statistics and then the inches and then then and just you just want to go hunting, man, I just want to go hunting. That's why I pay attention to the drugs. That's a great way to get a lot of extra opportunity. Is looking at that little charge you if you're on the mark or not. You know, it's a it's an in good faith sense of entitlement too. It's like, well, I'm I'm a good guy and I help lots of people learn how to hunt, and I had faithfully apply every time, even though I think the system is god awful and terrible and Montana ruined it for no good reason halfway through my life. Um, I should just get one of those tags here one of these days. And it's just not what what is the why do they why do they do it? Like? What is the what? What? What? What's to gain from doing the system? They make more revenue somehow, Yeah they're they were making more revenue. Yeah. I bet One thing it does is it creates dudes like me who are damned, you're not gonna miss a year because you gotta get them points. Yeah, it's like frequent flyer mentality. Yeah, you start being like, good thing, I'm flying somewhere. I'll get more frequent flyer status than true point system. You know, so we have a bonus point. But you know there's lots of one of the questions Colorado right where it's like, no, if the whole state. If you get X amount of points, you will draw this tag. Not necessarily if you get an x amount, but that you have more than anybody else. The only way it's true preference. If I have tann and you have nine, I would draw before you do. Yeah, yeah, the max point holders and and that stuff always bummed me out too, because I was like, so you're just telling me, do not apply to all of these opportunities. Explain point creepy. Then we gotta get to going. Here's what let me do that. Let this ladies and gentlemen, you asked him, We answered a special question. Episode First, we're gonna spend three hours have people air their grievance. Is about the fact that I put in the time and effort and money and drew a goat take. I'd be lying if I wasn't thinking, I'm like, man, I hope that song Jeane loves jezz Bell? Who is that jealous? An avalanche sweep Steve Off like right about when he's bought ready to touch that round off and then his kids are gonna be so bummed about hunting they'll never put in for a special draw tag that'll increase my odds that's his long play. Someone had to be compete with them. Ornella kids explain Point Creep just just just because times in the Colorado and I don't know what other states have true preference Wyoming, Wyoming, maybe Arizona true preference. Yeah, I'll explain it. But yeah, Arizona I think is more of a bonus system because I think you always have an actual chance. But in Colorado it's true preference, um, surprisingly only for deer and elk, not for the other ones. Yeah, um there, it's more like a bonus point. But the preference point basically means that, um, if there are you know, ten applicants that all have the max points, which means they've been applying every year since the program started that and it might be I think these days it's getting up near thirty, isn't it close to thirty years have been doing it. So those people that have max points will draw first before the people that have one point less than them, and so on down the line it goes. And so in Point Creep there's so few tags and some of these units of these people with all these points want that every year it takes one more point to draw it, meaning that the max max point hold. Their pool never gets it doesn't get satisfied. Yeah, so the guys are twenty five points. This year there was twenty of them. They're not cleared off the docket, that's right. So the next year it takes twenty six The minimum times you've explained is I never really understood it. Yeah, the minimum just keeps going up every year. It used to be because you're not like, oh now, like you're sitting on nineteen points, You're like, oh now, all the twenty point guys are gone because they got their ship. They're not gone. And it's gonna come down to how big that pool of people is. Because if it is what I'm explaining, like ten tags and twenty people in the max bonus point pool, sure it'll only take two years to pull them out and it would drop down to the next one. Right, So every other year you kind of reset a little bit. But I think some of those there's people that have there's hundreds of people that have max bonus points. So it depends on where this point, yeah, max preference points, So it depends on where they're putting their energy, and you know where they're applying. I'd like folks to know Um, folks out there sitting who are thinking like cal who are like, jeez, Louise, really that there's a couple of states dry desert states, dry desert states that they just have low populations, low wildlife populations, and high populations of people. So you go like Arizona and you have like the Phoenix area right Salt Lake City or in Utah, so you got like big population centers, dry climate, not tons of egg necessarily, that's not tons of farming that supports high wildlife numbers. Anyhow, there's some states out there where a lot of hunting opportunities are tied to drawing permits like that. You could you could feasibly be a resident one of these states and not really draw and have a year where you don't get a good opportunity to hunt big game. No, that can happen for the most part that we're talking about is like elite group of hard player type stuff, meaning UM, most states of there's all kind of stuff you can hunt. You go down to the gas station, you buy your permits. We're to be talking about UH states to allocate either like a certain species which are not abundant species UM, and they'll allocate hunts that way, or certain areas where a state will carve off a little chunk of of itself and be like, this is gonna be an area where we're gonna really limit how many people can hunt there, and uh um, and try to like grow extra big specimens of animals in this area and create like this really amazing experience. And so we're gonna do a permit draw allocation here. But this is not what it takes to do all this, And there are plenty of people that hunt their asses off every year that don't do these permit draws. But once you get into them, I find it's fun just for its own sake. I view it as something even more than a means to an end, just like Cal hates um, Like I actually like I. I take enjoyment in it. It feels like it feels like gambling, but I don't like to gamble. Yeah, so be if Trump wins, I win four bucks. Hard player. When Steve says hard player, this is a group of hard players, elite group of hard players, like a craps table, I didn't say this is a group or there may be one or two at the craps table that you'd call an athlete, whereas the rest you're just sitting there smoking and they're like rolling dice. Yeah, yeah, it's a system. Yeah, you can become a guy that counts cards, not the count cards and crap. What's the what's the craps what's the craps version what I'm trying to say, you know the odds. Yeah, you could be like a real an elite hard player and and get a lot of value out of the system. Or you could be a guy who just sits down and wants to have a free drink and lose some money and and and wind up coming away feel a little burned open. Steve slides down a mountain. But I'll point out this is the after all these years, Okay, this this is the first I've been applying since let's say Extra Safe because I didn't do it, and no, I didn't apply as non resident or you know, this is the first time I drew one of these things in all these years. Okay, It's not like I'm not like the guy cleaning up in the pit. Boss is like calling up to the up floor to have washed me through the camera. Like I'm just a dude, man, I'm a dude grinding it out, and I would think that you would be happy do one last quick thing. Tell uh seth, tell tell everyone what Rick Smith's observation was the other day. My favorite sentence of all time. Oh he uh. He says, how can it be cold outside when my balls are still claiming? Yes? Great question. Um. I modified it to be like sweaty, but that's what he was getting at. And it's like, it's like, I was like, you know, right, that is a really good question. I don't understand it either. Cal. I'm sure it was a little um sarcastic too. But in your little in the email he sent back, when you're when you were all pissy about not drawing anything, you're also telling all of us out of state or to pack our bags and go home to increase your odes. I should amend that because you don't have to apply. It should be a birthright. Yeah, I've never seen anyone say that on a social media post. During this quarantine thing, I was laughing. I was like, go, you'd build a wall around the state. Yeah, put people back to work, Mr Trump, build that m pro wall just not down there. Yeah, whether waste on that waste on that walling material. I got a way shorter border. Okay, question, do you spike by spikes? He's saying spikes. Do you know that there was a there was an ice fishing bait called spikes in Michigan? You know what? Do you get? Um? Raise? You haven't? You know what a spike is? Ice fishing? Yeah, a waxy A wax worm is like a you know, little larva. The hell it from? I knew it once once upon a time. A waxworm. A spike is one of those that has a tail on it, or mousies. Yeah, we call the mousies mouse's and spikes. It look like it's like with a little mouse. It looks like a little it's a maggot with a tail, and you'd call it a spike or a mousey. But this guy when he says do spikes always stay spikes? He's talking to spike bucks. So a buck that throws two pencil antlers, do they always stay spikes? Is it beneficial to kill them over a big buck because of poorer jeans? Uh? No? And no, no, they do not always stay spikes. And the next year they'll grow a different angler. And two, it's been proven conclusively that if a buck that's a spike that does not indicate his destiny as a buck. That's right. He will not always be like a little dank back. He's got just a much chance, just like a little small second grade kid. You can't say, oh, you'll always be, you know, a little small kid. Yeah, I found a spike elk Antler on the ground here yesterday, did you really? Yeah, it's a nice one too, are really cool? Yeah, they're cool. Oh, probably fourteen inches yeah. Um. The uh, the reason that some units have spike like spike specific tags is, uh, they find that it increases the health of the herd over time. But it's based off of the fact that you're taking an animal out of the group that's kind of voted nature has voted it most likely to die anyway. It's in that age class of not making it out of the the learning curve yet m m. Yeah. And it allows you way to kill. It gives you a way to kill younger bulls at all, killing too many younger bulls because it's like you'd be that you know that you might only have x percentage out of the population are going to be that way anyway, Yeah, that they're even gonna be eligible to be hunted. Yeah, if you ever get the opportunity to look over a big elk herd, try to pick out all the spikes. Yeah, I'm talking. A lot of guys have drawn spike tags and they're thinking they're just gonna be waiting around through spikes. But you're reviewing your mind. Man, It's like you go a long time without having to spike in front of you. You know, it's not like there is everywhere a lot of places they're protected. You can't shoot them. Yeah. Who highlighted best advice for hunting public lands and pressured areas? Question mark? Did I do that? Oh? I did? It seems like a very broad Well I was gonna narrow it down to a tip. I'll give a tip. I think everyone should offer a tip. It doesn't need to be broadly applicable, but just a tip that comes to mind. Hunting public lands and pressured areas my tip, and it's not applicable to all situations, but it's a way of thinking. Is there are ways those not ideal to be in a high pressured area with a lot of other hunters competing with you. Um, but my tip is ask yourself, think about are there ways that I could make this pressure work for me. Um, I've seen that happen like places where when all hell breaks loose on opening day. I have a feeling that these deer are gonna blank right and make it work for you and have it make it be part of your plan. Yeah, yeah, I like that. The pressure were used to duck hunt in a spot every year, open day of duck season, the Mouskegan Marsh. Your success relied on there being tons of people in the marsh. You got good shooting all day long if you hunt it over to stream channels and stuff because people's bump birds all day and then tend in the morning, everybody decided to go home, and it really heats up because everybody gets in the riverboat and gets out in the main channel to drive the riverboat back, and they put all the ducks back up in the air again, and it was like you needed it to be high pressure, which leads me to my hot tip go ahead, would be get up earlier or get up later. So you either beat everyone out there by getting up really early, or you sleep in and you get out there about ten am and wait for them to get out of there. Wait for them to get out uh and you may catch some animals moving because they know the schedule of the bulk of the hunting population. So my tip would be too, there's a lot of surveys out there, like collar like where they're collaring animals in high pressured areas. Just see what you're doing. And uh, oftentimes those surveys revealed that like say a big white tail buck is hanging out hundred fifty yard hundred hunter fifty yards from the parking lot because everyone's walking right past it. You know, Yeah, we had that. We had uh, the turkey Master, Mike Chamberlain Mayor, they had this turkey that couldn't be killed. He would even send people out and tell them because they were studying how this turkey couldn't be killed. He'd send people out and say, here's what the turkey has. Go try to get him. They won't be able to get him. Eventually, a guy gets in the fight with his wife, drives down the road, parks at the parking area at the state where the check station, walks over the hill of the pout and kills that turkey. There's overlooked areas, overlooked spot. No one was hunting the parking lot. A guy that I hunted elk with when I was just starting out our tree hunting. Real goofy dude, really real fun guy. Um, but that was his thing. Like you would drive up to the parking lot at the trailhead or whatever his spot was on the side of the road, you know, slam corridors, be talking. And then the second his boot went from gravel to dirt, his body went into creep mode and he had his cow call in his mouth it was I need wait and listen. And he hunted from I mean from basically the truck door on like the the second he pivoted from away from the truck door, he was hunting. And and that has definitely served me well. But not just to blow pass all the stuff that everybody else must be. Yeah, yeah, my tip would be to uh, no that country better than everybody else walking a lot, criss cross it, no every little draw at what every little ridge top looks like, and just really commit the landscape to your memory, not just in hunting season. Probably sure, well, yeah, that's probably not the time I'd be walking around it. Uh, That's the time I'd be hunting it, you know. But I think, yeah, enough people don't like just no their landscape well enough so that they can be standing anywhere on their pressured land and just know exactly what it looks like on the other side of the ridge or two ridges over, which leads to knowing places like no matter how much pressure a unit is getting, there's it's still gonna be places that aren't getting hunted just because of the way the landscape lays out, or where the trails lead or the roads leads. So look for spots to go into where you're bushwhacking, you know, don't use trails, and and find places to access country that's not getting accessed easily by a bunch of other hunters. Well, joe ye, who's right? Sometimes, Oh man, it just is hard. I think like staying optimistic, which is hard too, is that that's just hard. It's hard. That's the reality. Absolutely, Okay. Strategy for when turkeys are calling back but not coming in, which I feel like it is that that's called turkey hunting. That's most days, that's turkey hunting. That's what turkey hunting is. It's you hear a bird call and then lowland, then lo and behold it does not come in. Um, we we walked away from some birds this year, um and called and then they there are three of them. They turned and decided now was the time to come. They like ran back right back into our exact same spots that we have been calling from. Oh you left the spot yep, So birds were across this draw. It was way too wide open going to come in to do anything. So I was like, well, let's just set up and call. We call and call, and they're chatting and kind of shutting up for a while, and then looked to call again and then they're like, oh, this just is not gonna happen, So get up, walk up on top of the ridge, which was only about seventy five yards probably call again, and then you know, it was just the response was like, well, now we're coming. They gobbled back and look and I could see these three black dots just kind of like charging far away. Yeah. Is their mood changes? Yeah, and just and ran right back up into our same previous butt divots in the grass. And three minutes later that tom was right there with a m because they felt you were leaving, I guess yeah, or maybe they could hear us better because we got up a little bit higher. I do not know, but it that's sure change their tune coincidence to you know, absolutely decide to come sometimes I don't know. I like I like to change angles on them when they're when they're doing that, if possible. Well, after you left me in around Miszool last week, I listened to some birds gobble for an hour are over on private and I wasn't gonna suck him over, so I just walked away. At that point, you can't swing around on him. But had they been doing the same thing, I was able to go over there. I would have just you know, come at him from degrees the other direction, you know, try to get in front of him. If whatever the way they're moving, I think if you can, if you if you determine to that bird is moving like you just out cruising, which still due man, it was like late morning mill of the day they moved one. You think that you get all excited because he's traveling around Goblin. So we're like, well, this bird is good as debt because he's obviously out looking for hands, you know. But it's like he's he is, but he's doing something different to which I'll never fully understand. But that does not necessarily mean he's going to come in. But sometimes if you can get ahead of him, it can change. We called him one this year. This thing was just God when God, when God, when God, when we were behind it. Eventually it's slowed down and started messing around long enough for us to pass him up. And then he came right in when it was kind of more not following them, chasing them, but came in, um Man. I don't know different angles getting in their zone more. I think that there's I've talked about this a bunch. I don't know if it's true or not, but it feels true to me, is that there's like, uh, there's a proximity where they sort of can't they don't want to ignore you. You know they're gonna do something, maybe you get maybe they're gonna spook or not. But like you get into a certain ring around them, they just perceived their area differently. And I've had I can think of a few times in my life where they're just gobbling and gobling and you're calling their gobling gobling and nothing, and then you somehow creep into some where it just can't ignore you. And also and then they'll like pop over right because you got so close they can't ignore you. Uh. Also we this this just the other day. We just came back the next day. Yep, I had a bird. It was just seemed like unworkable. And came back the next day and just kind of took what we learned from the day before, walked away from him, could have stayed out and ha asked him, walked away from him with the plane like, let's come back in the morning. Came back in the morning. Um, and it just was different. I don't different mood, so I'm different happening the next day, like had him just totally in our area, hanging out, got him. And the day before he was like the impossible turkey, you know, like the one like nightmares are made up right, It's just like But then the next morning, for whatever reason, he's like read it roll I like uh, I like uh making noises that turkeys would make other than calling, like scratching the duff, making it sound like there's turkeys there, you know, because like you hear turkeys in the woods walking around and doing ship without them making a sound, so like make it sound like a turkey. They made a lot of scratching noise and weird little sounds. Vocal weird little vocalizations. Yeah, so that like the back can fourth. That can get pretty exhausting. Like I call, then you call, are you called? And I call. I had two birds this weekend where this was going on and on and on. It was in the evening, and I was getting pretty paranoid that they were just gonna turn and head for their roost wherever that was because I hadn't found it, um And this was taken a long time, And eventually they gobbled again and I just hit him like three times in a row with a yelpylp yelp, yelpylp, yelpilp yelp, And all of a sudden, they were right in the spot where I couldn't shoot them, but like three yards away. The Tom's totally strutted up and I'm like, oh, ninety degrees over my left shoulder. Yeah, try changing your calls, up, your call sequence up, give them something different. I'm also developing this theory about turkeys. I've been developing it for a while. It's not fully developed, um is. I think there's something going on where you got like if you imagine a turkey, you picture that all he's thinking about is sowing his seed. What she's thinking about and that he views everything is being a prelude to him sowing his seed. But I don't know however they're wired. I'm starting to feel that turkeys find some value, they get some satisfaction out of just studying and gobbling, like that is to them an okay way to spend a day. Do you know what I mean? Like, I don't think like when you when you get a turkey and he comes in and he's seventy five yards away and he's just gobling and having a hell of a time a goblin and strutting and he doesn't come in, you won't be like, oh I messed it up. Oh I spooked him out of six times, Like he doesn't know what happened. He's just like just doing his thing that he to him, that was a totally normal interaction. He gobbled a bunch, he strutted all around, he like did his thing, and the hen never came. Yeah, he walked off and it was like he's like he walked off happy, and it's like it's not like you blew because then you want to be like, oh I blew it, shut this and should that. But the turkey is probably that was great. That's my mental conversation every time. It's like, oh I got too close. Oh I give this too far. If I'd only called that one more like after I called made him gobble like eighty five times. If I'd only called that one more time, he would have come in. You know, it's like no, in his mind, he was a great morning. He there's a there's a hand over there by God, like I buy it. I just didn't go over there. I'd throw another tip out there that the purest won't like the purest callers, he can always try sneaking in and bush whacking them too. That's how That's how sound happened me the other day. But I mean that's how I killed my first couple of turkeys. And I had no confidence in raise your hand. If you didn't kill your first turkey by bushwhacking, no hands are Oh. That was our strategy and it still works. Busha him especially, spot and stock him. Yeah, binoculars and be like, dude, the minute he goes down that ditch, run totally man. And we had a lot of success like that. It's not nearly as fun their day. This kind of weird thing to happened where the other day I wound up, We got set up in the morning, and I wound up having a turkey. I'm not joking because I range found it like I wound up with a turkey closer to me in a tree than my decoy straight up above the basis, neck sticking out, and I was like you, I didn't. I didn't. If I'd been there with my kid, I you probably would have been able to talking me into it. But I didn't shoot them down out of the tree. But legal to do it here. My understanding is, I don't know my kid would have been putting an enormous amount of pressure on you know, you shoot squirrels out of tree, Get that bird out of that tree. I didn't do it. Someone else grab one. Are broken socks considered better or worse than the traditional flip flop. I'm not recommending burken stocks, but it'll be better than a traditional flip flop for sure. For if like a hunting sort of application, Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah. If I had to hunt my regular flippies, or I could wear burks, which I don't own, I'd go burks like the hip time with the corks flip flops aren't very quiet because of the flip and the flop, and Burks are not going to expect the gun. They through the woods and they're gonna be like, is he gonna do? I don't recommend hunting either of them, but know what he's saying, if if you have to go with the Burkes. Uh, why do Red rock Crab get such a bad rap compared to Dungeoness Crab? You know, I don't know. I don't know. Our kids were picking them up left and right last summer. Remember, I don't know that the yield is less, the shells are harder to crack and pick um, but that they're perfectly great. I was at that Willows Restaurant, which is like this world famous restaurant on Lummy Island and Puget Sound, um, and they get all their stuff from around there, you know, and they make this crazy stuff. It's really good. You kind of got to go there and spend the night and eat there, and it takes all damn night to eat there. He does a lot of stuff, the Rock Crab, Yeah, I love them. When we were grabbing and Jesse Griffithshore likes him. Remember that we're of stones are rocks stones, that's a way different crab. Or did we get some rocks with Jesse? Are you talking about Jesse? Are you talking about Jesseffs? We're trying to get stones because he he did red rock. But with Jesse we were we got stones, we were after stones, but no, we're after blues. To the one you can just keep the claws yelled up. I think they're great. I think that. Um. There's also thing that happens where people have notions that they picked up from people that had notions, and they picked up those notions from people that had notions and none of the notions matter. It's sort of like how antelope don't taste good? How muled you're not as good as white tail? No no, no, no, no no no no no. We've just dumb stuff people say, like trafficking and dump stuff. I like stuff you don't. I mean, you don't even have to trap those things. You just wait around and grab them grab. There is something to be said for an easy to pick crab. Though. Here's a great question, what are your thoughts on the notion of Pleistocene rewilding. I think it is a complete waste of time. It's fun to think about I'm not interested Plistocene rewilding. Uh, free folks at home, is that you would um either re You would either through genetic wizardry, um bring back right like clone from whatever ship melting out of the perma frost. That you would clone extinct ice age mammals from the Plistocene um fauna and and cut them back loose. And some people are like, oh the hell with that. What you do is you just go get the closest approximation it's still running around and cut that loose. So with that thinking, you'd say, like, man is are gone, but let's go get some African elephants and cut those loose on the Great Plains. And they used to have horses here during the plies of scenes, So we'll go get horses from Siberia or Mongolian, cut those loose and on down the line, and you put all the jump back to make it look like it looked a long time ago. Uh. I think it's a distraction. You have fun distractions. Fun distraction. I think that we should spend our efforts. Uh. If if you're gonna make the goal, it comes down to like if you're gonna make the goal, like the goal is to look like X. I just don't think you need to go back thirteen thousand years and have that be the goal. Yeah, I mean so of a huge argument for this rewilding right is to limit the amount of greenhouse gases that are being released out of the perma frost. And that's because you're in a lot of these areas you have this in approachment of trees, willows brush that um was not there when all this place to scene fauna was out there, because they actively deforested the area. So like bison, wooly mammoth, the horses, uh, the different bovine species, they would be hell on trees just like you see, if you have any of those animals in your area, or the current approximations of them, they'd rub up on trees and they kill trees like elephants and drafts and whatnot. You know, elk and elk or hell on small trees too, and they do it to a certain degree. Um. Anyway, you expose that ground and it gets a deeper frost, and that's what's keeping the the perma frost. Yeah, I've read that. I've read that argument for for rewilding the tundra, for rewilding. Then there was a movement to rewild the Great Plains, and that's just for for funzies, just people have Yeah, probably they had like little summits about it, little conventions, and it was that you'd bring in like woll the American lion has gone, so we'll get an African lion. The wooly rhino has gone. We'll just get a regular rhino, maybe a zebra, I don't know now, and just started calling stuff loose. So it looked like you did a long time ago. It's beyond fancy, Like these people the right whole damn books about this rewilding. Yeah, but I guess that I'm all into rewilding. I don't know they need to rewild till like a time we didn't understand. I think you just like in my mind, like if we're gonna be like, what's the benchmark, Like the benchmark would be in my mind, the time of European contact. Yeah, I guess if there was a purpose though, like a contemporary example at as Anthony Lacotta and I are hiking on this region Sonora, and as you guys know, and for those who don't like there's cactus and big things with needles and nettles and really thick brush everywhere. Um, but it's pretty darn open on this ridge because and there's cow crap everywhere, like domestic cattle crap everywhere. And Lakada says, he's like, man, I'd love to see this place without the cattle and see what would be like so you'd be back to But I was like, man, looking at this place, I would almost guarantee you there's no possible way we could walk on this ridge of line if there were no cattle, because those cattle are the reason that this area is opening up, opened up enough for us to cruise through here. And it's probably to a degree, you know, letting in enough sunlight to grow grass and stuff like that. And if you went back to the mid hundreds or whatever to be as far back as you have to go to get pre cattle, because you know, the cattle ban running there since since the fift hundreds, Um, there was probably a hell of a lot more larger befores on the ground. Yeah, yeah, I would. Yeah, I would think I'm kind of becoming like the older I get, the more I'm becoming kind of like a cattle apologist. Man. I found myself being a cattle apologist. The other day, it was driving down the road in front of my man the sure destroyed the river banks, and I was just thinking, maybe, yeah, but I mean we keep talking about I mean, I know they did. They had like more of a rotational and migrated and all that, but like buffalo around the river banks, they pound it and then they'd be gone for a year or whatever. But I just like, I don't know that the whole I don't know that the whole answer to solving all of our problems. If it was just we just got rid of the cat, we just have a whole bunch of more houses. Yeah, well, I mean yeah, good, well grazed ground. You know it was great for a ton of different bird species. You gotta have those different heights of grass for um invertebrate life, which is important for the poults. Then, you know, we just like to think of things so in such a binary way. Exactly. Well, it's with cattle or without you, with guy or without guy, because you go to places that are just new to you go a place that they are way over grazed. Um. Yeah, it can be like there's like people who make mistakes or bad actors. But there's also people who you know, run cattle like very responsibly and and and it's not is some people would let you believe that. It's just like if it was only we can only get rid of cattle, it would be like the earth would blossom. You know. I think it's a little bit too simplistic. I agree. Ah. I remember being out with a guy one time. He used to do uh, he used to do He used to run lease programs from BLM. And we're up in a elk Meadal and he was saying, if if I got called up here and cattle had done what these helk done, Because if I got called up here in cattle done this, I'd had to have a talk with this guy. It's like that bombed out that bombed out by must have been a good spot. It was just spot ready going in calf, you know, and it's hundreds of them hanging out in there, just yeah pawed up. And you know he was, I mean, he's making a joke, but you get you get the point of the joke. Yeah, Where I don't get where it is extremely bad. It's like right now it's going on in South America where they're just chopping large chunks of the rainforest to make land for cattle to graze on. That's problematic in a whole bunch of levels. But yeah, I mean that's the thing though, Right, It's like, do you want cattle? You don't want cattle? Well, I want well managed cattle. Is that an option? Nope, it's not an option. It's all none. It's kind of a move point because there's no world in which we're not going to have cattle, right, So oh yeah, it's like, like, well, let's go back. Can you imagine this place before? Man, It's like nope, and nobody else can, like didn't didn't exist for our Okay, who's gonna grab the next question? I want to hear your guys thoughts on the how safe is it to eat raccoons? I I highlighted that one, and not because I know how safe it is to eat raccoons, but I was talking a little bit with Clay Nukem about it, and uh, He's explained to me that there are like if you're worried about I think a lot of people are scared of raccoons and eating raccoons because they show shape them with dumpster diving, where raccoon in the wild is not really the dumpster diver that say, he's not a scavenger for the most part. Who cares if he is? Well, I think that scavengers tend to taste worse because they're eating rotten meat. You know. Yeah, well, like for instance, for him, buddy mine on his wall has this huge pig skull and he's a California guy and he's like that, and I'm like, wow, that's a big pig skull. Where did you get that? Thinking it'd be like Texas or something. It's got a big tuss. He's like, that's a California pig. He's like, that's the biggest California pig I've ever ever gotten. And uh I was like, oh, yeah, what's the story on that. It's like, well, uh, not much. I came around the corner, it was head down feeding, jumped out shot it went up there, and it was faced down in a pile of dirty diapers. And he did not eat that pig. Yeah like that okay, that kind of dumpster diving shirt. Uh yeah, I've at raccoon. I don't know. It's just like it's like a we just cooked it every which way. Imaginable. Um, I think the only legitimate health concern would be I think that they not thinking they'd be tricking noses carriers. What about rabies? They are known can get rabies from meat in the meat, if you cook it. Yeah, I think that's a lot of people's worried though. I think a lot of people associate raccoons with rabies. You want to let me tell you something. Check this out in our book we're doing um our wilderness skills, Our wilderness Skills and survival book that we're doing. Yeah, me and Brody writer's cramp? Do I have writer's cramp? Dude hammering? Hammering? Anyways, check this out. This is in our book. Se of the rabies cases in this country come from what critter? Domestic cats, skunks, rats that globally guess what percent? Guess what percent comes from dogs globally? Oh, globally, way over of rabies cases are attributed to domestic dogs in the US, because we treat the ship out of dogs, bats, raccoons, foxes, and offer high up. The CDC is saying that, um, you can't get it from non bite exposures like scratches, abrasions, are open wounds that are exposed to salive or or other potentially infectious material from a rabid animal. Other types of context, such is petting um coming in contact with blood urine her feces of a rabid animal are not associated with risk for infection. So I think that eating the meat would fall under the ladder. Yeah, because it's bacteria, you're gonna cook it. Virus But yeah, I'm sorry, you're gonna cook it. Yeah, Um, yes, they don't go messed around in the raccoon's mouth. Yeah, so you got the chance tricking else has got the chance of getting rabies from handling raccoons. But once you cook him, I think you're fine. But when we cooked to make it good, we did it every which way. We had Bo Jackson on this show, like the athlete, famous athlete. He talks about he's got he's got good record raccoon recipes. Clay knucom spelled Newcomb but pronounced nukemb um Clay nukelem. How's how's Clay cook him? Uh? You know, I don't think he's done. He's eating it too much. I think he was telling us that for the first time. Another fellow that he's been hanging with came over and made some uh you like this street tacos out of that raccoon d tacos for him and uh he said it was delicious. So I think some sort of a bras ing. Yeah, you know, it's probably similar to black bear, I'm sure man. When we when we had it, we braised it. I think we braised it then grilled. It's braised to get it tender. When I get my first coun I'm definitely eating that thing. Oh yeah. And the old day is like an old book. It's people are eyes soaking it in vinegar and then cooking it. It's like in the old days you take your dog out for raccoons. Is that where you're you're fixing on? Maybe I need to start getting them after something. There are quite if I've been seeing a lot of raccoons on this streets dead around here lately. I've I've seen that too. I know it's a yeah yeah yeah, but no, I was gonna go down and chase them with clay and newcom Arkansas. Very cool. Next, get ready for the next. One. Best way to cook small mouth bass. I think the best way to cook smallmouth bass is to make a sandwich out of it. A fish sandwich, like how they make down floor it everywhere you take the fish, you flay the fish, get the flayoff, skin the flay, and then you do John Gary's signature zipper pinbone removal technique, which I think we talked about one of our books. I can't really explain it. Over there, picture you got a small mouth of flay land there. It's skinned, but skin side up, so what would be the skin side up? And you feel in the middle of the flay running like laterally you'll feel that little line of pinbones running down there. You get to the end of that little so you move from the front part of the flay towards the tail and you feel that little line of pin bones ends. Then you caught a little V through the flay right at that point, and then you grab it like you're opening a zipper, and that little that little V tab is your zipper pole and you grab that. You see me do this, yeh, because it works on rock fish too. You grab that and pull it like you're opening the zipper, and all those pinbones come out connected. Then it's the perfect sandwich size. You get a hoggie roll that's like the exact same size as your small mouth, and you bread and fry that flay and you put it on your hoggie roll with um pickles, onion, lettuce. Saracha is am I saying that right? Yeah, saracha sounds great. We used to not do that. We used to put mayo and stuff on it, but then I got it to putting the sarach on it. Man's a good sandwich. We we had it. We Matt Elliott, who you know, competitive uh bass fisherman? What do you call it when you call him? Not quite pro amateur competitive bass angler? Like small mouth specialist, And we went small mouth fishing, and that's some much should never eat in a small mouth. We made him a sandwich. He enjoyed it. He said he didn't want his wife to eat one of those sandwiches because she would wonder what he'd been doing all that time, letting all those small mouths go. Another term that you love on the half shell. No, I like him because all I'm doing is not I'm just de scaling the filet. So you take take your filet, throw that thing. I put a little salt on there and just put it on indirect heat on the barbecue and in a about six minutes. You can grab that thing and hook your thumbnail into the flat, into the skin, sorry, into the skin, and give it a shake, and that whole side of meat will just slide right off the skin, right onto your plate, and it is beautiful and delicious. My childhood fishing mentor would cook large mouth bass flays that way. I've eaten one large mouth. He would soak. He'd take the skin off, solk it and milk. Not nice. Sorry, leave the skin on, take the flay off, leave the skin on, soak it in the bath of milk, which is a big thing where I grew up putting stuff in milk all the time. Then grill it. Yeah, what is I know There's been articles and stuff written, but I've never dunked anything. I feel I don't. It's like it's hard to explain. This is supposed to like pull blood out of that. I feel that it did. It diminishes if you gotta fish. It has like a muddy, weedy kind of taste. I'd hate to go up in front of like a scientific committee on this or something, or like clastify the Congress about it, but I feel that it takes the muddy weedingness away. From stuff there. I just said it. I feel as though that's true, and what I feel is all that matters. If I feel that it's true, it must be. I'm sure it helps when you're like, well, I just committed a half gallon of milk to this, so something's gonna happen. Okay, here's a great question. No one's gonna know the answer to this, but we can speculate on it. Can you trap Burmese pythons with three three kind of bears? I'm not on this one. Uh yeah, I think that you'd run into a lot of problems of to use. Okay, in setting three thirty conno bears, you are needing to channel. You're either needing to like read sign real good, so you know right where that animal you're trying to catch is going. The thing most commonly caught with three thirties, using for wolverines and whatnot, but mostly people catch beavers with three thirties, and beavers really tell you where they want to go by the sign they leave. They dig canals, they have runs, they have entrance ways into their lodges, all these ways in which you can look and be like, man, the beaver's gonna go here for sure, and you set the three three there and low and behold he passes through there and you got them. I don't know how you would channel or funnel a python live bait, put a little rabbit or a mouse inside a cage, and or maybe get some pheromone, because you know those males are hunting the females. You're not gonna catch him behind the behind the ears. That's the other thing is you might It might just it might just not be. It's gotta I think it's got to be the right side python. I feel like a lot would go right through a three if you had so when you're setting a three thirty, a lot of guys want to set you said it so that the triggers around the bottom facing up, not up facing down. But if there's any kind of current or whatever now and then you gotta put it triggers facing down because the current trip it. But all all things equal, people like to put the triggers on the bottom so that then it don't mess the hair up when the when the trigger components are against its back after it gets sprung. I think with a python, you don't want to do like you want to position the triggers, like you're doing an otter proof set where the triggers are bent low so anything can pass through triggers on the bottom. So he just crawls over and snacks it. But I feel like, man, I don't know if you hold onto him, I don't know, he might just sliver around out of there. I don't know. I think you'd hold onto him, and just I don't know if I wonder if he'd probably still be alive when you got there. Yes, absolutely. And the problem is you miss a set on a python that while the old bugger you'll never catching again, you'll get traps, trap shot, trap shot on you. Besides boots and optics. What is the one thing not to cheap out on for a Western hunt pack? Mm hmm, okay, yep, Well I thought about that earlier when I read read the question, because I was thinking, Man, if you do get something down, you don't get something down if you're actually going and packing in, if you're gonna do like say you're gonna carry more than thirty forty pounds, you can pack in overnight. Boy, an ill fitting pack is can really make ship out of your time out there. You don't jumped at me when I saw it. What I got to thinking about, um, sleeping bags that too, was a lot of people always getting all cold, man, sure cold, and then to show up with a ten pound bag, which you know, out of your forty pounds, boy you are, it's a quarter of your weight. People getting cold and people have an enormous bags. What you get when you spend money on a good bag is you want a good, super puffy bag that's lightweight and scrunches up. And that takes money. I don't I don't know enough about sleeping bag manufacturing to understand why. But that takes money. That takes a lot of money. You can make a big, giant bag that doesn't poof up and it's warm. You make a real cold little bag that does poof up this warm, but a big but a warm bag that puckers up blows up like a damn balloon, costs a lot of money. Yeah, I explain to you, if you please. I love to explain the other thing to me. And I finally sunk in Yeah in another year, so you'll understand sleep high and sleeping bags. Um, what makes them light and small and expensive is that the quality of the down the higher the quality is going to cost more on what you get in. The higher quality is that what actually keeps you warm and down is it's loft, which basically makes an insulating layer around your body. Right. Well, the higher the quality of the down, the less it takes to make that insulating layer. So you can weigh it and have a half a pound of bad down in in uh in one container, and then a half pound of good down another container, and that good down will be however much better it is, it will be three or four times as fluffy, so thus creating more loft and more of an insulating layer. Are you tracking now? Also, you need to have a lightweight outer material because if your material is too heavy on lightweight down, it could actually crush it and crush that insulating you know, could that you're trying to make around you. So you gotta have some lightweight material that is also um tough. It's lightweight and not tough, and you're gonna have a big hole in your down bag and down it's gonna be everywhere, and that doesn't make for a good insulating layer. We're uh. That was a great explanation. Where how did you where did you get trained up on talking sleeping bags, no time against sports and Edwards Colorado. Right when I worked retail, when you were a salesman sold some sleeping bags, that was a great description. I feel like that down a nice down sleeping bag. Two needs to be paired with a nice insulated pad sleeping pad because you can press that down on your back. You gotta have a good pad. You gotta have a good our value pad. But is that like absolutely? I mean, this person wants a need, like what is the the next thing? What is the I don't know why he why it has be the one thing, but it's like, what is the one thing? And I don't want to hijack the whole conversation to have be sleeping bags. But I want to point one more thing out about sleeping bags because I keep seeing people making this mistake. The ratings like sleeping bags come with a rating about temperature ratings, and I'm not sure there's a competing rating systems, but a lot of these rating systems are not comfort. They give it like a survival rating, meaning if it's zero degrees, you won't die, but you're gonna lay there all night freezing your hand. So I think now on the tags they've actually started doing like three different sort of like settings like that, explaining it be like you can survive down to this temp. Most people will be comfortable at this temp and you'll be great at this temper. That's that's helpful. Yeah, I man, I, I mean we live in the far North, we're in the northern tier state, but travel or damn place. Uh. If I was gonna buy a bag and just have it be my bag, I would It'd be hard to talk me out of not getting a zero or like a ten degree egg. Just versatile, absolutely, And if you buy a real good one and it pooches up anyways, suckers up, pooches up what I trying to say, it compresses well, Uh, it's just you just kind of don't zip it or do zip it. But just like if you're gonna have one bag land around, I would get a way way colder bags. And you think you need, okay, other stuff, you can't, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta go full on about something you can't. You can't you can't what's the word that he uses here. You can't cheap out one thing. You can't cheap out on. It's not counting what is shooting iron. What does he not want to cheap boots and Vinos, sleeping bag boots, Vinos. The clothing, Yeah, define cheap out. Well. Like when I first started hunting out West, I was wearing like car heart pants and ship like that, and I got by. But man, when you got wet, it sucked just walking around and sucked. You know, it takes all the hair off your legs. It's heavy, you know. And plenty of people still hunting jeans and you know, yeah, whatever jacket they can grab. But it's great till you get soaked. Got it once you once you start using good clothes, it's like you could never go back. It's hard to go back lightweight clothes. Yeah, so much of this stuff. Man, when you make the jump that you thought you would never make, I never. I don't need that you finally do. You're like, I am an idiot. I'm not gonna tell anybody, but I cannot believe I didn't do this ten years ago. Yeah. I remember when I gave up on gas station coffee, the same thing. Man. After a while, I was like, man, I shouldn't have done that, because now it's hard to go back to gas station coffee yes, sir, like hot coffee flavored. It's like, yeah, that's the only problem with this is probably not bad coffee. They just don't put enough grounds and don't put enough in there. So yeah, I'm burns your lips and it just tastes like hot water. I'm gonna say, I'm gonna go sleeping bag as well. Um, but no, that you're just going down a path and this is not the last thing you need. Eventually, he will cross across the rubicon and yet another purchase that you didn't think you'd need. Yeah, because good stuff is fun. People are always like, oh, so you're saying you need to this and that and this and that and this and that to go do that. I'm like, no, it's nice. Helps it makes me enjoy my time out there. Yeah, you spend more time hunting, you know. I mean, there's plenty of dude still plowing Alaska in blue jeans, but man, there's been a lot more time drying out in front of a campfire to where you know you don't have to do that if you've got the right gear. I got a little pour over coffee thing that's foldable and it clips on your cup and it's just a wash out filter, you know what, it are stupid And man, I was like this is stupid. And Garrett Smith has one and he's like, oh, you gotta get one of these, cow I gotta get one of these. And I was like rolling over in the truck four am, fire up the stove, a little poor over coffee, reaching the cooler, grabs from half and half. It's just a nice way to start a turkey hunt. But here's the thing. Once it's cold out, when it's like sub freezing and you've taken all that coffee water and let it drip, let it fall dripped by drip through the air, you just got yourself a cold that's a cup of coffee. We got onto some of those things that started messing around with them, and it was bad weather to do it in. But it was like it was like there was no way to have a hot cup of coffee unless you reheated it with just a standard like a poor over. We had these little envelopes. There's these little envelopes of like camp drip and it came in a little like disposable deely smack and you poured into go and you just watch those drips. They just like they shed their heat. We uh like if I used the poor Over and Instant both, but I'm like, Okay, the weekend, it's gonna be like this temperature in the morning. Like I'm bringing Instant this bag and drip over. It's like, oh, it's gonna be warm. I'll go with the poor Over when you pick, when you go into your pantry and you're packing your coffee, you go and have check weather dot com to find out what coffee to bring anywhere. Yeah, we checked the other anyway. Yeah, we have been like, oh, you know, it's going to be too cold for poor Over And it's just like the standard little black V that sits on top of the cup with the filter in it and you put some grounds in it. That gets your coffee too cold if it's oh yeah, because falling through the air and being exposed. I just kind of but I'm telling you an objective reality, man, But I I just feel like I've had different experiences. Ours just drips a lot faster. I guess, weren't you with me? Well maybe, but I don't know. Yours might be a different system. But we just have like a standard V. Yeah, I just have the standard V that sits right on top of the yet like you buy it on the water through there and you don't have a cup of this was made. This was like made, and I know yours just something different. I understanding your sucks and doesn't work. I'm saying that mine might work. Still maybe not a zero I think it would work at twenty ed tumbler. Yeahs don't cheap out on how you make coffee, I guess, or does quit drinking coffee. You don't have to worry about it. Call just texted me a nice grip and grim of turkey. Thanks l What what what turkey is that? What are you talking about? It's got a Miriam's tail fan Okay, So on one side of the road, I shot this bird this morning, white white tail. Yeah. Mirriams have a lot of areas, and then on the other side of the road it's like chocolate brown. I don't think it's the road doing that. I don't think. I think, especially in Montana, where there's been a lot of um bucket biology with turkeys going on, there's probably a lot of hybridization. I think that. Sure. True, Miriam's are a little bit wider, you know, snow white tipped, But um, I mean hack where we hunted in Nebraska. I've got all kinds of grips of guys with shooting out of the same flock, calling in three four dollars and everybody you know cracks one and there's four dudes lined up and every fan looks different. Okay, calm this picture. I know you're shooting at uh that venom, that vortex red dot. Yes you like that thing? I am. Yeah, I do, I do, I do. Just once you start, you'll never go back. I haven't, you know, I think about I keep thinking about doing it, but I haven't done. It slows I first. I was like, it's gonna slow me down a little bit, and maybe it has, but um I feel like speed yet. Ye man, I really really liked it. I go, I gotta tweak my mounts a little bit. But I picked you one up to you think about making the jump. What I did is I took that eighteen nine though and took a few inches out, took a few inches off, and put an iron sight on there. You know I'm going to see that customization customized, sawed it off nice and short. Yeah, man, oh, here's a good one. How come you don't bleed your game out after a kill because a bad shot and stressed the animal out and make it taste bad. Tell me that's two questions, correct, it is how come you don't? Let's start with how come you don't bleed your game out after a kill? Because the bullet bleeds it up. If all goes well your shot, if it's like the next shot and it's still alive, I would go do it, would yeah, because it hasn't bled and it's heart still pumping. But if it's if you go up there and it's shot through the lungs, all the bloods out anyway, and it's heart's not pumping anymore. So if you made a high shoulder shot which most likely didn't clip the lungs, just you know, busted his spine and he's dead but still pumping, yea, and slice his neck. I mean, if I like remember to do it, I would do it for sure. I've never done it. Yeah, I've never done the next slice I like when an animal and open up means every drop blood that things ever gonna have laying inside the chest cavity, it's already bled. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe that this question is related to shoot him in the head or something. Head shot guys bleed, But you gotta hustle. You gotta get there quick. Yeah, you gotta hustle like bleeding, Like you catch fish over the cool, let it die and cut its gill, nothing to push the blood out, yea ron late. Let's say remember that, you know from the documentary, man, as soon as he touches that trigger, he's just like sprinting towards He's a head shooter, unrepentant head shooter. Man. I'm reading a book right now about game Warden in Idaho and he's undercover work hanging out with a bunch of poachers, and the way he describes it like it is an act of God that these poachers ever get caught, like just and it's just so simple too. It's just you know, twenty twos and to forty three's and two three small small calibery stuff all had shots and stuff just in its tracks in the brush, ten ft off road, busy like paved roads, stuff like like just slick, yeah, just fast. Wells Part two, Ynny does a bad shot stress the animal out and make it taste bad. I think so. I can't help I think so. And the reason I think so is because uh, I feel that I have a lot of like, um, what's it called like when you're aread, he tells you something, you know what I'm trying to say, second hand info? Yeah, anecdotal, but I have a lot of anecdotal thoughts, anecdotal evidence. But it's also it's a big thing in the meat cutting into It's like professional slaughters pay attention to this. They pay a ton of attention to stress. They're not whistling Dixie. I mean, they're like as their business and they're put an enormous amount of energy into reducing stress. But you know what my question is about that is that and I know they are doing that, but aren't they A lot of it just comes from like animal ethics there doesn't It comes there wanting not wanting what you call it red cutter. I'm sure there's an ethics component to it too, But remember that remember that that famous animal behaviorist Grant temp Temp Temple grand and Temple Granding. They brought her into work on all that like reducing stress and slaughterhouses and a lot of it. I mean, there's an ethics component to it, but a lot of it had to do with quality product, better products. Yeah, if it was just ethics, they wouldn't shock them after they bolted him in the head, right, Yeah, they didn't want them stressed because of I think it increases the chance of getting a red cutter, which is like a like a discarded or like greatly reduced piece of meat. But it's like a widely held thing that's always told that you're always told that it's true. And I have some cases where I think you could have a stressed out am and have it be good just because like just just because there's always very ability and everything. But I've had enough situations where you've had stuff to be like extremely tough off tasting, and there's like and you're like, man, you know what, like there was something you know, and you look and you'd be like, yeah, you can't rule out there was like a not clean kill. Yeah, for sure. What's the best position to poop in the woods? That's a great question, he says, Squat leaning to get this multiple choice, squat lean against a tree, sit across two logs, sit across two logs, et cetera. Yeah, that would be like basically making you know, the toilet seat the trin you know what I ever thought to do is take two logs. This is a good idea. Take two logs running parallel, but sit parallel with those logs so there's a gap between them, so that the support wasn't running cross cheek, it was running with cheek, each cheek on its own support. My experience, the more yes, the more word trouble, you're gonna have. Oh, I don't believe in doing that. It's just something I hadn't thought of before, and now I'm curious about it. I think a lot of it has to do with your agility and physical fitness and things like that. Like, yes, because the squat is not easy for a lot of people. I hang out a lot of a lot of like kind of wiry wirre you little mugs, And I think that, um, among like why are you little mugs? I think that the squat is like I don't even need to do a handhold. No, No, I don't hand hold no. But I feel like when I was younger, my daughter I have to hand hold her. Yeah, you know, my daughters just finally grew out of that. Man. They can just drop it and go anywhere. Nothing on their shoes anymore. They keep their pants clear. It's wondering. My wife makes our daughter when she's peeing, she makes her get way back like handholding. You get way back, like a deep, deep, far lean back, because otherwise you gotta have four pairs of action underwear and pant tights with you. But I saw somewhere I won't even say it was maybe on one of your postcal recently we're laying, Tani commented about something about like a tree tether that's made for pooping. Yeah, because I was gonna say when I think, I feel like when I first started pooping in the woods more probably in my late teens early twenties, for some reason in my head, I thought that it was always going to be better if I, like I would always look for that perfect tree that could, you know, hook around and lean away and get it. And now I guess they've made a product it makes that easier. You know, I don't need it, And that's not a product you needed to buy. No, land has like a doubled up belt or something that they can whip around a tree and lean back into. It's just like bearing down and getting some leverage or what like. I don't I think maybe a little stress reduce around the knees and I don't know, some some sort of comfort sounds complicated. Yeah, I've done, and when that strap breaks, you're going to be in a world poop. I've done the you know, in situations, I might do the limb grab, tree grab, limb grab, but Jaily not to walk you through the whole process, please, Well, there's a couple of things. I think that I'm more interested and responsible responsible pooping, not just clean, clean woods pooping, but responsible woods pooping. And we just came out of an area west of here where it is the tree shootingness woods shitness service. Man. I don't think i'd ever had even seen tree shooting until all this. Yeah, in western Montana, it's become a thing where you show up and try to blow and sometimes successfully gradually blow over ponderosa pines by just shooting them to the point where they had The fourth service has signs up say you can't shoot the trees. I don't get it, like decent sized trees too. No, we're talking trees like we're talking Diana. And meanwhile the same people are surface shitting. Well, yeah, I'd have a little talk with one of our crew members. Not going to mention any names, but I think that Steve likes. I don't know if you coined the term, if it's been around forever. I had never used it. But the pist zone, no, I'm colling that that's about Mexico. When you leave the group to go off down the hill, we're up the hill river, you say, I'm gonna flip a rock. Yeah, that's just the first thing I'm gonna do. Yeah. Well, I think that maybe some people have taken this to mean that that's all you have to do, is like take a rock to walk over somewhere else and go, well, take a right on the surface and then just flip a rock on top sand. That's like a last resort if you can't take a hole. Because what I like to do is I like to find a rock that's buried so far into the ground and when you lifted out, the perfect six inch hole is there, and then you put the rock back on the top stomach. Just here. The perfect rock is just making me want to go off in the wood. What I'm proud of is when I walk away, I'm like, if anybody else came through here, they would not know where I hid. I like the kind of rock where you go up. This is considering you got rocky grounds. We'll start a rocky ground. I like to kind of rock where you go up and you think, no way, I'm gonna move that rock. But then you give it a pole and there's some give and you pull and it pops out and there's like some some rolie polies and centipedes and a big ant nest like and then you do your thing in there and you're like an Egyptian bricklayer man and you put that block back down in that little slot. But it's such a deep hole in big rock that you don't even get like the like you don't even get like where you squish it oreo, right, and the stuffing comes up out. It's just like it's just like but but it's just yeah, then it's like entombed. That's what I like. First I heard somewhere somehow right true. Yeah, it came up on Ben's podcast that I had never crapped in the woods. Well how would you do hold it the whole time? Well? I laban plug Well, I mean I know that is no I tell't please explain. Yeah, he's he's he is the laban. I don't know if it's necessarily has anything to do with my heritage. It hasn't. Oh sorry. When I travel, yeah, which is all the time, I tend to get a little constipated, and sometimes it can take two three. I don't know if I've ever made it four full days. Um, where you have a plug? So to speak? Um, I tell you you don't. You've never felt as good as those seconds and minutes following getting rid of that place? Is that that Latvian plug? Exasperated by the mountain house? No? No, house doesn't give you a plug. No. I think it's just I don't know really what causes it, but it just I don't know. I try to drink a lot of water. I'm guessing that's walking onto a plane. I know that's what it does. It do it to YouTube, Seth. You get a little bit of it, don't you? From the airplane plug? Yeah? Yeah, do twenty three? See if you're leve I don't. I don't get as bad as Johnny, but I'll have like a day go by them like something's not right? What is your what is your heritage? I'm kind of all over the board. Not a whole lot of pizzas in the name Morrise go ahead, Phil, you never put in the woods there you are. Yeah. So I told Ben, well, I'm gonna go for a long haick this weekend and if the nature calls, I'll try it. I'll try it out, I'll sample it. And uh so, you know, I packed a bunch of stuff just in case, like a bunch of stuff, A couple of gallons size ziplog bags, roll of toilet papers, some sanitizing wipes. You know what we're gonna do with the galleon size zip blocks for the wipes and the toilet paper. It's like, can double zip it and so it doesn't, you know, bring it home, take, you know, pack out, keeping it dry. Yeah. Sure, but that's it for your bunch of stuff. Yes, And so i'm you know, I'm I'm a few hours into this hike and I don't really have to, but I was like, I tried. I promised Ben i'd try. God damn it. And so I go way off and it's like I can just see where I was walking and keep an eye on it, and I take care of business and I bury it. And then immediately I hear a dog caller and you know, oh, you don't have to tell me because it happened, and so Tug sniff it out immediately come sprinting. The couple's like looking for their dog. What is he doing? And then I'm standing there just like pretending I'm on my phone, like hunting for treasure or something I had. I had, but I just started walking back to the superficial berry. Yeah, I mean, I mean it was it was like, I don't know, like three or four inches. I like it was. It was really snowy too, was I just tried to pack some snow on top of It's anything. People like to walk away feeling they did something exactly. People do crazy little things. They'll take like a couple of like pine needles and like put that on there and be like yeah, that's good. Yeah, well in anyway, so then I'm I'm like pretending I'm not noticing this dog, just like going to town on my chip. But just man, I it was a bad first experience. I'll tell your story, will curl your hair? Me and Ronnie Bam we're hunting snow geese one time, and we were on a little guided snow goose hunt. This is a good one. And the guide goes over to the tree line and flips the rock. It takes a growler, however you want to put it? Uh, and then pretty soon as dogs over there eating it. But we're in layout blinds, so your face is down on the ground and the dog comes back over and wants to run around licking everybody's face. Yeah, yeah, I almost like I had to get Yeah, did not. Almost had had an impulse that I didn't act on to shoot the dog. Well, I mean I was. I was talking to Mark Kennyan about it, and he's like, well, it might have been the nice thing to go back and explain to the couple which just happened, in case their dog comes running back smelling like like shit. I couldn't even imagine bringing myself to do that. Like that's tough conversation. Yeah, you're not gonna take it back, but I want to walk through people a little bit more so. You got the perfect rock, like the Egyptian brick layer scenario, the perfect rock comes out of ground. If not also you carry a little shovel or your heel. But I think the key is prep in your area, Like prep your area before you go, find out how you're gonna deal with it before you go, like hours before. No, no, when you walk out, when you go off down the hill or off the hill or whatever you do, go over and don't like just go oh without considering how what your plan is, because you want to drop it in a good disposal location. So if you need to dig a cat hole, you know or whatever, do that, then go. Don't go and then start wandering around trying to use sticks and whatnot and making little tongs and stuff, trying to move it around where you need to put it. So do that dig a hole, if you dig a hole, dig a deep hole, dig a head sized hole. Another thing and other than this is my brother's trick. He keeps a lighter in with his can't money, so can't money being toilet paper, he keeps a lighter in there and as he's going he doesn't let us if it's raining out whatever, you don't let the TP get wet as you're using it. So you're used t P. He'll lay over a little limb or what have you, and not letting get all balled ups and it doesn't want to burn. Lay it nice, drape it nice over a limb so it's well oxygenated. Then when you're done, you pull your lighter out up in flames. Where that becomes tricky is wet wipes. So what wipes don't want to burn? You gotta come back the next day and burn them. So I will carry and my kid, I got can't money and this little disposable like not disposed when it's a little single like this little can't money roll made for campers. Then I carry with me, uh wet ones, single use wet ones. And if you feel like you need to touch up to the single use wet one, open it, do your touch up, put the wet one back in that thing, and then put that in your ziplock bag inside your kit because you can't burn it. Then burn the sweep by and bury your cat hole. And I don't need to walk out and find the ground littered with all your toilet paper. And this is an important topic, which is the important topic now I just gotta I think you did a masterful job of describing that system, and folks should take that uh into mind. But also on the burning the TP side of things, the woods down. Yeah, And so there was a road biker outside of Emma, Idaho, and I was heading up to my buddy Jim's house to go h cook with those guys and hang out. And I think it was just to hang out session. This is Jim the bird Hunt. It's always cooking stuff. Yeah, and uh, I get this phone call says, hey, Cal just got called out on a fire. Uh the roads are closed, but just tell them you're staying at my house. And uh, his wife Nancy was like getting the animals together in case they had to evacuate. And I come around the corner and the whole damn mountains on fire. And so I go up and hang out with Nancy and we're kind of getting calls on fire and have a kind of an evacuation plan for all their bird dogs and great dance and stuff. And uh that fire was a road biker who attempted to burn the toilet paper and got away into the dry grasses of the blm there. Yeah, so just keep that in mind. And like the ranch that I was on this weekend, Uh, the fires roll through their almost every year, and the folks that live out there are hyper aware of fire, and I mean they should be. It's just like that that country their day. I had a situation where I went off and uh found a really interesting little spot. It's like, you know what a tree falls over and leads kind of like a half a stump. Oh my gosh, it must have been multiple in the The stump had rotted out, so there was actually like the splinters of the stump all right standing there, all rotted. The stump had rotted and left the cavity in the ground, so you're able to actually back up to it right use that. I prepped the whole little bit, dug excavate the hole out a little bit, but actually use that existing hole. Then walk back around and just boot the back end the half of the stump that was up still, boot that over to in tomb. No one's getting into there. That's perfect. Tipped it over and entombed the area, and then I got up and jumped on it a couple of times. That is one clean dropping. The only way anything's gonna get at is about coming up through the earth that would be fossilized today someone's gonna find step back and throw your hands on your hip. Glad. I was glad, satisfactory. It was like someone knew I was coming. One of those moments it makes you confident in a higher being because it was like someone was looking out for me. I dropped one in the same kind of hole. But I just kicked it fold dirt. I didn't kick the stump on. You didn't back kick the stump down in it perfect. I felt good about it. Time for one more. I think we can end on this one. Is there anything else to add here? Because this is something that just like, well, I'm only just I'm only saying I was just really nice National Force, like nice National forest, and it was cool. They're doing like a lot of work in that area, doing a lot of thinning, a lot of controlled burns, like putting money into it to make good habitat. It's marked, roads are marked, like everybody doing all the stuff to make it like usable accessible signs. National Forests four miles like turn you know, like everything everything that you could ask for, Like, oh, laid out right, everyone's done their job. And how what does that bring out in people? I got it. Let's go shoot all over and then shoot the trees till they fall over. That like that sounds like like that's how we should treat the National forest. I don't know who's paying for all this. You are so disgusting, man, Yeah, taking up a bunch of plastic and ship to shoot at we came across the legos. Someone who brought those big you know, the child legos that are blows they're called. Someone brought those up there and stuck them on a limb and where and then left. Only hit it once that a big lego structure with one bullet hole through it. You didn't find any legos or toilet paper and your turkey's crop, did you? No? But everywhere you went, man, everywhere you went. Culturally, I don't know what's going on that little neck of the woods. Oh, I think it's a case of a few bad apples. Well, they get around, I'm sure they do, shooting trees down. I've a topped a few Christmas trees in my day, the old old tan gage, if I'm being honest, But this is actual. Almost took some videos, but it was like, oh man, anyways, last one on public land, and I don't second last one. I don't see why you couldn't do this on private land. You there might be just more fun because you'd probably be hunting there with your buddies. Have you ever thought about laying down false tracks slash signs to bamboozle other hunters do the other day we talked about this. Yeah, it takes a lot of work to be to be like packing around an elk hoof or a deer hoof to lay down that kind of a sign. I was just gonna say, it seems like a lot of work with Without that, you can lay down a scrape wouldn't be too hard. A rob would take some serious Yeah, well then you're not bamboozle. Yeah you are. You're getting them to waste their time. Yeah, that's a great idea to go make a little scrape, fake scrapes and put tracks on them. H We talked. We were the guy the other day that was saying back home what they would do. We're looking at turkey tracks in the road, and he says, you would stomp out every one of these turkey tracks. That's right. And so he said, when they're rolling around, they look for a bunch of stomping there. Now we uh, we used to on some public land that I used to hunt. There was kind of a major trail. It wasn't a heavily used trail by hikers, but it wasn't. It was a major trail. And there was a spot where there it was a known elk crossing and there's a lot of tracks there and near I just like one time brought up some pecord and basically made like a little broom out of some pine bowels or fur bows more likely. And um, I would sweep those tracks for two reasons. One, I wanted to see like how quickly they got freshened up, you know, because if I went through in the dark in the morning and came back out at ten and there's fresh tracks, and I have rough idea when they crossed through there. But to also kick out, you know, to hide them from if anybody else was hiking that trail. That's the thing I like about the lion hunters that lion hunters do is they like to brush out stuff all time, right um. And then I noticed, like down in South America, some of those guys like to a shout out the sandbars just to wipe the slate clean, and he gives it like a nice little texture to pick up tracks. But we had a lion hunters like if you get like whatever sandy patches and trails or a dry wash crossing the road, they like to get out and those bring a broom and broom it out so the next time they know, like I was here, I broomed it out on Monday. Af there's a track on Tuesday. I know when that track got laid down. But that's different than trying to bambooz with someone I know. I mean real common one for western trailheads because I say Western trailhead because that's where my experience is. Is like, if you're hunting with four people, everybody drive your own vehicle, so then there's four vehicles parked at the trailhead, crowded. As my brother in Alaska, he doesn't like camo tents. He doesn't get it. He likes the brightest tent he can find, and he likes a lot of bright tents because when someone's flying over, he wants to look like all hell broke loose down there. He's like, if I could have set up five neon tents, I don't want to camo t I wanted to be like I am here, we are all here. Although sometimes sometimes Cow's example can backfire because some people will be like, well good. It would be like ice fishing man, when you go out to lake and your ice fish and you just be like, oh, everyone's over there. Place to start. Uh. Last question we got when we wrapper up some guy was like, what's your thoughts on pebble mind? I know all I know. I understand all the arguments. Under said all the arguments. Um, you know you drive everybody drives cars and we use metal and no no, no, like I get it, I get it. All people need jobs. I want people to have jobs. I'm not anti job. I'm not anti mining. Um. I opposed that mine. It is the wrong project in the wrong place. If if the headwaters of the biggest salmon runs on the face of the earth, like if that isn't like a line in the sand, I don't know what is. I don't think we should mess around. I do not. I think that I would like I would love it if the president um with just all of a sudden you know, I know there's beyond presidential like there's a lot of things, but there would be a great step as the president would just and he he has he's comfortable. Um. He went against his party on divestit your federal lands. It was in the party platform and he was like, not not gonna happen. Not interested in divest your public lands. So he's like federal managed lands. So he will go against like what they got going on there I would breathe such a side relief if he would put them, if you would come out and be like, you know, not not gonna happen there. Yeah, don't do it, man, don't do it. In a hundred years, it'll be the winning decision will have been to not do that. Don't do it. If we're talking about just put a big, huge, open pit mine, big full of toxic material in a seismically active is it true that there's never been an open pit mine that hasn't failed, like hasn't been breached or failed in something. Absolutely? Absolutely. But you know there's some that that do that within the degree of what's acceptable to amount of leakages. Yeah, absolutely absolutely. But I mean this thing, you're like, it's a it's a sponge. You're you're digging a hole that we know is going to fill with water because every other hole up there is full of water and there's no place to put the water in a very seismically Yeah, it's like it's like leech mining. You're you're digging out or out of the ground. Then you're putting is it cyanide leach up there? You're dissolving, you're dissolving precious metals out of or with chemicals, and then you gotta do something with all that stuff. And so they build a big man made lake, and that big man made lake like you build a big dam, right, and that man made leg will be full of all that toxic material and then you just kind of let it sit there for eternity and hope that the damn doesn't burst. I'm grossly oversimplifying. It's just out of just to get through it quick. But I'm not anti minded man. I'm anti that mine. Yeah, absolutely, I don't think it's the right thing to do. I don't think it's I get all the stuff though, I get the economy, I get jobs. Don't do that one, like, don't do that one? Absolutely too much to ask if they do do it. No, they don't do it. I win a thousand dollar bet. You're bias. I thought you said you don't like gambling. I made a bet on this where I made a bet three years ago that it wouldn't be that they wouldn't have initiated, that they wouldn't have started to extract or in a decade. So I'm three years in and seven more years that they have not extracted any or. I went a thousand bucks. It says nothing with what I you know, It's just that was I was just in a betting mood. I'm back when I drank more, all these bets, all these bets about the next presidential election, all this stuff was when I drank a lot more. Guy used getting a betting mood. Quarantine's turned. I don't make it really any bet. I lose all my bets. Anyway, didn't you also say you would, uh, you would engage in civil disobedience over this? Yeah, I would think that it might be a situation. I would think that it would be if I if they were going to go and actually do it, and I heard that there was people that were going to go out and do like like a civil disobedience, I would in the back of my mind, I'd be like, yes, I'll not that I condoned civil discipline. Well know, in some cases, why not? That's what this country was built on, right, Like people in Michigan go down to the state capital over like a confusing effort to quarantine people's like civil disobedience. Um, it would be heartbreaking to me because I would just I would be like, okay, if we can't if if that if we can't do that, Like what else can't we Yeah, where's the line? Like what is sort of like not you know what is was like yellow Stones that I you know, I mean, i'd rather put I don't want to say that. It's just so contrary. It's like, you know, especially like right now, I think folks got like a little taste is a bad word, but I'm using a little taste of food insecurity. Um. And you know, man, I hope you come out at quick if you're listening to this and you're and you're you're in that spot, right Tommy, And I'll tell you that was that it? Um, But I might have spoke too much already. This is sorry, Tommy. You know this is America's salmon stocks. This is talking about something different for the pebble mine, Like what's at risk? This this a giant security blanket of food that we're like, Yeah, that's a good argument. I'm gonna steal that from you. Yeah, please do what you steal an argument, You're not really stealing their argument. You just influenced me. Yeah. Yeah, um, there you go. That's what I think about. That's why I think about that. Is there anything else we should tell folks about anything like that. We're doing that. They should be checking out. I was just thinking they should. If they haven't yet, they to go check out the six pack of meat eater hunts videos. You can see uh Brody doing a little pig hunting Texas cow dude, some goose and what's the other one you did? I think that's it for me because it's Cal's wee can review. Not it's Cal in the Field. Yeah, he's got a separate series called Cal in the Field. Yannie Chase some big old bulls and spear fishing spearfish Flasher catching some beave is this is the spear is our spear fishing one? Still caught up with an outperforming your elk one? Yes? Yeah, neck for a while. The beaver hunting episode is crushed, dude. There's a thirst for there's a thirst for beaver videos. Man. We tapped into the zeitgeist Forget and Deliver. People like it. Yeah, you can't go out anymore at night. People like, oh my god, it's the guy for the beaver video. Al Right, everybody, thanks for joining. Ryan Callahan, Sat Morris, flip flop flasher, Phil Taylor down there on the end, Dogs eating his uhs, and Brody Henderson good night. No nicknames, Brody, I've never gotten to work on it a little bit. Oh. I thought of one though, for his his wife the other day that I can't leave that word more often is that his wife, Carrie, married into the Henderson name, and uh so I saw it. I said, oh, Carrie, and the Henderson's fe

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