00:00:08 Speaker 1: This is me eater podcast coming at you shirtless severely bug bitten in my case underwear listening Hunt podcast, You can't predict anything presented by on X. Hunt creators are the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the Hunt app from the iTunes or Google play store. Nor where you stand with on X spencer guy wanted to know, um, if you can get the rut rolling early by putting out corn mixed with the viagra? UM, I would say, no, you only it's gonna work. No. There have been a lot of studies done on like what drives the rut? Is it the moon? It's not the ability to get cold weather? Is it uh? Bara MAgric pressure? Is it hunting pressure? Things like that, And it always comes back to the only thing that like really determines when the rut in rut is in your area is day length? Does uh? Does? I don't know? Does does viagra? That doesn't serve the purpose of increasing one's desire. I'm the youngest one in it's room, So why would you ask me? Because I thought maybe I don't know, like you talked to like, I don't know, but my understanding of it, I don't know that it increases one's It's not like an aphrodisiac. Now, if you put an afro djiac out mixed with some corn, yeah, that would definitely work. But all you're really doing is like you're assuming he has a dysfunction. The bok has a dysfunction. No, yeah, assuming that you're just assuming that if you gave him a eight hour ereaction that all of a sudden it would start the rut for last over eight hours. Please come and large consult your veterana. The rut isn't really determined anyway by a buck's willingness. It's the dough's willingness. And so that's why you get like the secondary rut one month after the first rut, which is usually like November ten, for example, is kind of a baseline dight in the Midwest. You get the secondary rut one month later because those dos cycle back in that were not bred the first time, or they are del fonds that didn't come in to Estrius one month prior. When that secondary rut happens, you get that increased bucket activity again because there are some willing doughs in the woods. So you're saying the vagrid word for a doll maybe a follow up question on on you explained what triggers it very well. Length of day, yes, but so do cloudy days make like less light come through making a shorter short of shorter days? If you had more cloudy days like up to November tenth when it started earlier, maybe if there was like a volcano that filled the end, maybe then, but otherwise no, Uh, Danielle. Remember we talked about hush puppies for a long time. YEP. A guy wrote in about why he thinks they're called hush puppies and where they came from. He says there was a relatively common food among slaves in the South, and the name itself came from using these delicious nuggets his words, to distract guard dogs when trying to escape, which I like. I don't know if it's true, but I like it. Hush puppy. I had the best hush puppies in Tennessee. Is hush puppy? Yeah? I didn't think so. To be totally honest with you, yeah, I'm not a sh puppy fan. But this guy was putting green chilies and they were very good. Yeah. But dude, you just like any of the green chilies and I do, I do? That's true, hatch chili. A couple quick things, uh, other quick things. So we talked about this guy. What state was that The guy was saying that if you, like some hunters are expressing that you don't want to shoot a collar deer because it might have a micro tag in it. And if you ate the micro tag, that the government then's gonna track you. I forget like big brother, like big brother paranoia. Okay. A couple biologist wrote in UM about this. Appreciate them taking their time to do that. Uh. He was saying that, um, just bear with me, man, how would you accidentally how big are the get small? They could go through a grinder even and you would still ingest it. Well, No, because the guy that wrote in was saying that people told him, if you do shoot a collar dear, you have to grind it all into burger in order to destroy the chip to prevent the government from tracking this guy. Uh goes on to say that he had an interesting couple points about it. He was working on a master's research project on survival of adult gobblers and the Black Hills of South Dakote. He'll appreciate the spencer. So adult gobblers in the Black Hills they radio collared, not tagged, but like literally put a collar on seventy five gobblers. Um unsurprisingly, hunting mortality was far and away the highest source of mortality. That's what kills him. But they also had in the Black Hills, they had gobblers getting killed by lion, mountain lions, bobcats, great horned owls. Um goes on to say, whenever I couldn't locate a radio collar and it wasn't reported, he would just go and drive around Custer and Hot Springs, South Dakota and scan the city with the radio receiver. Do you guys watched Have you guys watched the uh watched or read No Country for Old Men? Yea, when the guy just drives around trying to find the money with a transpondering it. So this guy drives around, yeah, trying to find the suitcase of a transpondering it. This guy drives around like that. He twice has regained his signal outside of hotels, outside of motels, entered the motel with his receiver and knocked on the actual door where the guy was in there with his rate turkey collar. And he then asked them, do you have something that doesn't belong to you? Wow, because I'm guessing it says on the radio collar. If you were to find this, please and when people did. He also one time found one of his still out in the woods in the back of a truck. Um. And then Carmen van Bianci wrote in about the tags themselves, you know how much you know how much I like Janice? If someone uh, I like Carmen more than your honest, one of my favorite people. If you threw uh like a grizzly bear at Carmen, I would shove your honest in the way of the bear. Um. What these things are called, Well, this guy's referring to about eating the deer and still having it in. There is a passive integrated transponder or PIT tag. They're not really trackable. Oh, another guy was saying just not just for funzies. I'll tell what he said the minut Another biologist wrote in Carmen's talking about pit tags, the government can't track you with a PIT tag. Yeah, when you have a PIT tag in you pretty much have to go past a reader. Two do any good for anybody? So you can put like pitt tags and fish, and then you put the scanners near the river and you can scan fish coming by and tell when it picks them up. But it has to pass by this thing. She's even in rivers where they had a lot of scanners because of doing studies on fish, and the scanners are already in place. She's gone and pitt tagged beavers, so you can track beaver movements since the scanners are already in place. That's cool. Um goes on to also back me up on this. She says, so basically, unless the government has hidden pit tager eaters all around us, if you ate a pit tag, you have to get very close to a fish reader somewhere, probably have to rub your stomach on it for it to pick up the number. They would know that a pitt tag has passed, but that's the only thing that they would know the collars or what's actually trackable. Um, and she says, she bags me up, and I completely agree with your reluck. I'm quoting Karmen. I completely agree with your reluctance to shoot an animal that has a collar on it. They're totally tainted. This is coming from someone who places collars on animals. They're totally tainted and less wild, and someone else has already gotten the best of that animal. I am even a little disappointed when I work and recapture an animal that someone else has already tagged. It's less exciting than catching a fresh one. Even seeing a wild animal with a collar on it is less cool than seeing one without. H Now, I want to know. I want to know how, because we have some folks here that hadn't weighed in their opinion on that. I'd like to hear from them. Oh, do you think it'd be cool to get a shoot a deer wearing a collar? I had an instance where seeing deer with collars was really really cool. I told you about that, didn't I. I was gett my butt kicked hunting mule deer, and I called up a biologist buddy of mine, not just to kind of get an understanding what the heck is going on, not be told where deer at um? And it was just this, but this buddy mine is like, Hey, yeah, you know of our colored deer have been on winter range for two weeks already. Dude, you can't be getting that kind of information, man, he said, we have. There's only three colored deer left that haven't shown up the very next day, end of the season, last day of the season, there again are no dear to be found. All of a sudden, I look over, here's this dough with a white collar. Yeah. And then two more dough show up with white collars. Uh. It was just like very odd but super fun. We're talking to someone one time. I think this is what star this whole conversation long long ago is we were talking to a biologist up in Fairbanks and she was saying, I have collars on legal bowls right now that are hanging around Fairbanks. I remember thinking it wouldn't it be nice to know how to find those things? Yeah, we're not. Oh yeah, that was my friend Casey. So Danielle, what do you mean do you see an animal with a collar? Are you gonna pass? I don't know. The only thing I've never seen a deer or a turkey with a collar. I just think about water found banded birds and people go they go crazy. And got a bandoned goose and I thought it was super cool and how we called it in and realized it was just like a one year old local bird and I was like, man, I would have preferred not knowing he wasn't. Yeah. When he got the information back, you're like, oh, this is like our next door neighbor. Not yeah that that. We were definitely expecting a twenty year old. This is amazing. Yeah, yeah, our body Rannie baby. He shot one one time and turned into He shot a bird with the ankle bracelet and turned it. He said, have been banded about a hundred yards on on the pit tag subject. I used to work for a fish hatchery that primarily dealt with endangered species like um pallid sturgeon on petal fish. I guess petal fish aren't endangered threatened in some areas, but anyway, we would pit tag these fish. On a petal fish, for example, beyond the third scoot from the back and then to read this with thet scoots one of their bony armored plates. Yeah, if you handle these things, like a wild surgeon will have super sharp scoots. It's like those lines they go from their head back to their tail. You know you were listening Cow's weekend review. He might maybe he listened, but he doesn't have good retention anyway. You try to retain anything when you got my two in the house, But these pit tags can be coded. There's like thirty five billion combinations because it's old, super long series of letters and numbers. But to read these things, the wand that reads them has to be like pressed against the skin of the surgeon where that pit tag is at. You have to be like the government to pin you down. Like I could not walk into the building that has these tanks with tag surgeon and just wave it and then read a certain surgeon. You basically have to be pressed against this pit tag reader. Wow. So if if some if a black helicopter, if you're hunting in Kentucky and you get a deer wearing a radio collar and you eat that deer anyway and don't grind it home muscle, and later a black helicopter your lands by you and some men jump out and tackle you and hold you down and wave that thing all over your body. At that point you will know that you're being tracked by the governments. And and even with like the pit tags we use specifically, it does not give away location. You know what's in front of you because you're holding this wand against it. But if if I pit tagged you Steve, and we were in the meat eater office, I wouldn't be able to track your location even within this building. Got it? And if you're wearing like a helmet made out of sturgeon scoots. Another guy, this guy is a veterinarian. He places pit tags on animals. Uh, what's he got to say about it? There's very few my even micro chips. Okay, so he's placed microchips, not pitt tags. My very first point is that microchips generally do not have GPS capabilities due to size and battery limitations. They're only meant to store information that can be read by a scanner. Um. They play them subcutaneously on animals. Mammals, he puts them between the skin and the muscle. If you're in Kentucky hunting and you get a deer and it's got a radio collar, Um, when you stripped the hide, that thing is gonna come off with the hide. Plus this guy just for getting shiggles eight one, and he thought it was fun to use the scanner to watch it moved through his g I track and then he shouted out in thirty six hours, what do you think of that? I like the dedication veterinarian right from a straight up veterinarian. Um quickly on Latvia, Janna, did you know that a mutual friend of me and Janna so Seek a deer hunter sending a thing that he was having to find himself passing by the Latvian embassy in our nation's capital, and the Lavian embassy had a sign out um bragging up how Latvia is one of the most introverted nations in the world. It's an odd thing to be bragging about this day and age. Yeah, and it was um that they let their literature speak for itself, So I would say Yanni is an outlier as a fairly extroverted person. Mm hmm um. It made me think of the fact that Latvians let the literature speak for itself. How many of you guys have seen Jin Jim Jarmus is Dead Man? Not really got Jim jar I would do anything to be in your shoes and have not seen Dead Man so that I could go watch it and have the pleasure of seeing it for the first time. Against right, it's the greatest premise of any movie ever made on Earth. Uh you f you're withut the poet William Blake, Yes, okay, bear with me. Mann. There's a real life poet named William Blake, famous poet. Now in the movie, there's just a dude from Ohio named William Blake. Okay, He gets a job offering out west in the undred and travels out west and gets quickly gets in a gunfight and get shot. Wanders off in the desert with what looks like it should be a mortal wound, but it doesn't kill him. He an Indian happens upon him. It just so happens that this Indian had been captured at one point in time and sent to Europe where he was taught poetry and was part of a trap. You know, they used to like display Native Americans. They used to take Native Mary, as Hunter said, like take him to Europe and display them like circus displays. The Indian played by Gary Farmer had his character when he was young, had been kidnapped and brought back to Europe and as part of this traveling road show he would recite poetry, and they taught him to recite the poetry of William Blake. He finds a man dying in the desert who just so happens to be William Blake. But this William Blake from Ohio has no idea about the English poet William Blake. But the Indian is like, I have found William Blake. Um, William Blake is dead. I need to return him to where he's supposed to be. He needs to go back to the spirit world because I have now recovered out in the desert William Blake. And the William Blake has no idea what he's talking about. But at one point William Blake, the guy from the Kid from Ohio shoot someone, and the Indians says, from now on, all of your poetry will be written in blood. And I thought of that, and I thought he's honest as a Lavian, deep deep good ass movie man. Uh, it's just dead Man, dead Man, dead Man, great movie. And if you don't like watching movies because the gun shots are too loud, all the gunshots are super quiet, which is very funny, they'll go that's a good movie. Uh, dude, wrote him. If you date a lot married wild PILs married. Everybody's married cal If you date a lot, he always takes a guy rode in. He always takes his dates fishing, because that way they got to buy a fishing license. And he feels like he's supporting his State phishing game agency by making so many people buy a fishing license. Then he says, if they don't like that date, that's dating catch and release. Uh. I like how he's like ensuring something good will come out of this date, whether or not he likes the person or not. It's a good attitude. True conservationist there exactly. Uh quick, one guy was using you Honese's marriage advice tip. What do you call that too? You gotta think of a name for it, because what's not mine? I stole it from the Great Wayne Dire? But who's that? I know who he is? Dr Wayne Dyer? How would you describe he's a self help person? Is he like Dr Phil? No? I don't know about Dr Phil. Is he like Dr Oz No? No, he's up there so he doesn't think that like trons will secure cancer. Danielle is going to describe him for you. He's up there with you. I don't want to say he's new age, but or spiritual necessarily, so he's not new age. He's not spiritual. Um, he believes in all that stuff you hearing me's stotting off about positivity, grace. You know you know what we're talking about. Daniel can you explain you he's marriage saving advice. We've explained it so many times. No, I don't. Maybe, oh this is where if you're having like a tiff or an argument any less. I thought that was a really good tip. It's great tip, but it almost got this guy divorced. Oh, someone explained the tip. I can't explain it more. He might have deeper problem. He had a miscommunication. Okay, Well, how it works is if you have any issue, you just and you feel like it's kind of it's probably you can't call it petty, but for whatever reason, you're like, you know what, we're not going to resolve this. Let's just throw it on the scale, and everybody throws a number between one and tent and whoever has the highest number guess to be the sort of winner of that discussion. And you can know you're missing. You make the decision and you go. You miss the whole main part of your thing. What do you mean you forgot to mention that you're you're throwing a number about how much it matters to you. Yeah, you didn't say that. Sorry, Well I was gonna follow up with that. You have to be in the far away as that was a far away look in your eye. Phil, you can't always throw tens because you know it's like the boy who cried Wolf, right, So you gotta pick and choose what's important to you. Yeah, it's like how much it matters to you? But didn't you also say one time that there's like it's a fallacy to throw a low number because you don't want the other person to be like, why don't you care about about this? Someone else said that, Yeah, we get a lot of reader response. Listen to response about this. I'll take a shot at it real quick. It's a system that Yanni came up with by which if there's an argument, let's say your art. Let's say me and Yan you're arguing about um uh. Danielle said she uses this so she could just give the example. I do have an example. I mean, I don't actually remember what we were arguing about, though, make something up. Um okay, Let's say let's say, Uh, let's say you're getting a new countertop. Just say, let's say you get a new countertop and they're gonna put in one of those things that automatically dispenses one of those little things where you put your dish soap in there, and it's kind of built into the countertop. It's like a little spigot coming out of the counter top that are always worthless from let's just say you, oh yeah, Let's put it this way. Let's say you're debate about whether or not you have one, okay, and you don't want one, and your husband does uh, and you can and you and you can't decide. Then you wind up doing as you say this. You say on a one to ten, how much do you really honestly care about this subject? Right? And if you're like, um, your husband's like, I've always dreamed of having one of these. These are really great. I hate having the bottle of sitting on the counter. My mom used to wash my mouth out with palum olive, and every time I look, I think of that, and it makes me have animosity towards my mother, and that that reflects even into animosity from my own children. Right. And and the wife, you you're just like, yeah, I just think they're kind of stupid. So you give it a one. Your husband gives it a ten. He wins, He gets the stupid pump. This guy proposed this to his wife and then they're having an argument and he throws a one and she throws a ten, and she gets super mad at him. And then he realized that she he explained in a way where she thought he was giving on a sliding scale of one to ten, how much do you value our relationship? Oh? Yeah? Um? And without even thinking, he's like one, that's rough. Uh, that's good. Now I want to go ahead. Maybe that was the conclusion she wanted to come to. She got real mad at him, because then you could get your divorce and have it be that it wasn't even your fault, which is what I imagine a lot of people want. Yeah, you'd be like, well, I was a truthful spouse, but he betrayed himself and now I'm dating this new guy, and here we're here. We are, um Spencer, can you tell us about the Daddy long leg deal? Yes? And so. At the Mediator dot com, we have a new series called fact Checker where we sort of investigate the suspect yards that we've all been raised. But some examples like should you drink urine in a survival situation? Can you even tell that? Uh? Should you drink your in a survival situation? The enters now, so Barret grills. His entire career has been for not Yeah, So it's like it's something that's often picked up on when a news entity writes about some survival situation. For example, the guy that cut his own arm off in the mountaineering accident you know was a mountaineering accident. What what was it? Canary? Great recollection. You think that the guy that can remember that would be able to remember what he forgot. So so when they wrote about guys uh, you know, events that led up to that, they talked about how he drank his only ear end to survive. And there's other examples where somebody was trapped in rubble after a building collapse and they drank their own your and to survive. So stuff like that. So it's often told, but you shouldn't actually do it. It'll dehydrate you like saltwater. Would you are putting these toxins back in your body that you're body just sent away. There's a lot of reasons why it's a bad idea, but you probably get driven crazy by thirst and then to drink it the same way sometimes people get driven crazy by thirst and drink saltwater. Yeah, so if it gives you, I guess a piece of mind. But overall it's a bad idea and it's also not a cure all for like these uh Eastern medicine claims that you should put on a jellyfish sting. You can put it on a sunburn. It will get rid of warts. It's good for your skin if you drink it. And my buddy fell on an urchin one time we're fishing, ah and he piste on it. All of that's wrong. You shouldn't do it. He was married to a doctor, I don't think. But yeah, it's never mind that sent her to the meat eater dot com. Then, so that that's the kind of But hold, is there anything good that urine can be used for it? It's waste. Write your name in the snows snow Pete on our smoldering campfire. Hey left. I figured I was putting into good use. So um. Another one we recently wrote about was were whale stocked in the Great Salt Lake? Oh? Can I can we return to the to the did someone just mention vomiting? Or was I going to mention vomiting? Oh? I was telling the whole office about how you vomited so much while we were spearfishing and you had somehow twice left that out that I'm gonna tell everybody about it right now. I was hoping to have a no that was different. I had a lot of problems, um, but we never got the daddy longlegs thing't there. But I'm segue and I'm pivoting off. I'm trying to segue off. Okay, check this out. Spencer said, how about drinking pistols and doing any good? Actually? And I said about how sometimes people will become thirst crazed if they're stranded on the ocean and they'll try to drink saltwater. So I was gonna seguey off my own interruption to point this out spear fishing. Um. You know, I usually was snorkels to have the check valvenum. No, not a water man, not that kind of water man. Okay, some stories have a check valve inum. H is anybody familiar with these. You go into water and there's a sliding ball is buoyant and the ball comes up and blocks so you can go into water and your snorkle doesn't feel or even splashes coming over. Your snorkele won't feel full of water. I've been using those long time now that I'm officially dabbling in the spear fishing world. Uh, I've been told that those are naughty because they bubble too much, and people don't like bubbles underwater. Fish don't like bubbles. They don't want you bubbling. And so these guys use these uh pretty wide gauge so you can breathe through them. Very heavily short, low profile, wide gauge snorkels that they clipped to the back of their mass strap so that when you go into water, you spit the snorkle out. The snorkel is not up in your business. That doesn't obstruct your visions, just took to the back of your head, out of the way, and it's small profiles, there's not a lot of drag. I'm used to a more robust um check valved, longer side mounted snorkel, and switching to this new snorkel system allowed me to breathe in. It all made me drink a lot of salt water, and at one point out in the water, I had to full on. I twice like a two pack spread apart um full on vomited into my own area, right, I kind of brushed it away. I sort of splashed all my vomit away. So you're you were on the surface when you had this, I was you really wanna know what was going on in the kelp forest and you come up they freaking kelp man, and you have to like dig your way, you have to like create a hole to get your head up, to get a breath, a little panicky, no, just you get up in the in the kelp is so heavy that it would lay the snorkel down and you you'd be up and like, oh, I'm fine, and you take a big you'd be like out of breath, you know whatever, and you take a big ripper and it would the snorke will be cock eyed whatever because the kelt so I one day I went out and drank so much salt water that I had to eject it all. Yeah, um, you're honestly, you get panicky up on on the surface like it's it's no one was panicky. Well, no, I definitely felt the anxiety of of being around and in the kelp it gets thick. I had a good I don't know if they ever gave you this tip though about swimming through it on the surface and how to use your gun like point it put it up above your head and it sort of splits the kelp and you can you can move through it a little easier. I eventually developed the system I'm pretty happy with forgetting through the kelt Know, it can definitely feel like it's sort of a bunch of hands and arms grabbing onto you. And you guys were spooky. You were spitting out your snorkel before you dive right pulling it out. Yeah. Is it so dense that you could like lose the sense of what's up and what's down? No, no, the girls vertically, no, but you when you were down, you could look up and see holes and then adjust your rise to hit little holes, or you might have a better busting through to get a breath. And it's always way worse at the surfaces than it is underneath. You could travel quite freely underneath because all the leaves are laying on the surface. It's just the stalks are underwater, so you could kind of sneak around and there a little bit. But then when you wanted to come up, it was hard. And it was caused me to drink a lot of that damn saltwater. And this happs to me all the time. Last time I was in Boja spear fish and I had to climb up on the beach and bombit. My body doesn't like. My body's anti saltwater. I was impressed though, with the way you got back in the game, because I was already in the boat. Steve got to the boat, told us about vomiting and flopped into the boat literally to the right to the floor. And people were talking to Steve and he was not responding. He was fine, but he's like he was not he was not in a talkative mood, you know, which for Steve's not very often, you know. And he's like on the ground, And about forty five minutes later he was back in the water charging Wow, dude, Yeah, I'm hardcoret man. Not about that. Just going belly up for back. That's tough. Uh Dyhow So there we are, Daniel dog daddy long legs. Yeah. So, um oh, no whales. You're gonna tell us about whales. I was just giving you some examples of the kind of um yarns that we look at, or long held assumptions. Can I tell you I never heard that there were whales in Great Salt Lake. I hadn't either, but I was in Salt Lake City a few weeks ago, and the uber driver just telling me that actually put a lot of good info off And then I google this and this has been off repeated on forums and blogs. Specifically, even the University of Utah Biology department has like a short blog section talking about when this happened, that these whales were stuck there, But it never did happen. Why does the university say it did as a joke. No, they're just misinformed on the university, the misinformity of Utah misinformed about a whale introduction. On their biology department website. They have a short thing talking about when this happened back in the eight hundreds. Yes, I'll pull it up. Ah. Well, the you, the actual university is wrong about whether or not whales were I think it is something that's just been overlooked, Like whoever is auditing what goes up on these websites happened to miss that, you know, within the biology department. There's this quick blog post that who knows, some grad student probably contributed talking about when this happened. Man if I was gonna send my kid to that school, And then I was thumbing through the website and encountered a thing that they had let wales loose Great Salt Lake, and then I learned that that wasn't true. I would withdraw my child's application. Dude, I gotta tell you, Uh, doing a lot of research on biology based topics. This is not limited to the University of Utah. You come across some grad papers that you're like, ah, that that's just not right, Like there's they're not all jams out there. This is on utah dot d use website and it is under the Rose Lab Department of Biology from the University Utah, and it tells the whole story about how the Great Salt Lake, which is seventy five miles long thirty five miles wide, covers more than million acres. And then he goes on to tell you the story of how this eccentric biologist back in the stocked these whales there we're kind of whales. So to run this like down to figure out what the origin of this was it actus, we went back to an article in a now defunct newspaper in Utah that used like some very heavy handed hints that they were writing something that was sarcasm and not to be believed. But the story goes that back in this eccentric biologists had a theory that in the Great Salt Lake whales could survive, and so he went on a two year mission south of Australia to hunt and catch whales to then bring there. And they decided to do that because they weren't able to acquire any whale legs. So there's an example of where this article like an onion article, yes, but it was from a newspaper like you see, there's an old timey newspaper clipping talking about this UM. I forget what your original question was, what kind of whales it? There's no details given besides that these two whales were caught off the southern coast of Australa. They were then taken to to San Francisco. There's no details on how they got them there. Uh. And then from San Francisco they jumped on a rail line for these specially designed um Trader trains shipped to Salt Lake City and then carried a half mile from the tracks to the to the lake and placed in there. And they had these holding pens set up with like long mesh nets so that the whales could stay near the mouth of the bear river and be observed. But within minutes of these things being released, they busted out of the mesh. And after that they were spotted a few times over the next couple of years. But then whalers came in like five years after they were released, another like heavy handed thing talking about why this isn't true, and they killed off the two whales there. But to this day there are still reports of whale sidings in the Great Solid Yes, you know there's when I was researching my oh you want to see a seg we're not we don't even approached what we're supposed to talk about. And we haven't got into the daddy long legs yet. But um, when I was researching in my Buffalo book and watched I got an announcement to make about that. When I was researching my Buffalo book, all these you know a decade ago. Um, everyone knows the story that like that like sharing, Like there's a general like Sheridan in the in the sort of the lore of of of of Buffalo. Okay, there's this thing that that, uh, the the U. S. Military had this stated goal, this stated thing that let's get rid of the planes tribes. The key to getting rid of the planes tribes just to kill all the buffalo then they'll have nothing to eat. And people thought that there's this myth that that was like the stated that that was a stated goal and not a just a very real consequence. It wasn't very real consequence, but it was like the U S policy was to do this, and it came from the fact that uh General Sheridan I believe it was, had supposedly said this in front of the Texas State Assembly and it's in every history, every old history book likes to mention this thing. Well, um, a student of Dan Floors, who we've had on the podcast one time, went to like right about this and in his research found out that not only is there really no evidence of him saying this, he never spoke to the Texas State Assembly, but there it is. It just is the thing that gets perpetuated and perpetuated and perpetuated. And then he looked as like it's just someone screwed up or whatever, the segue being. When you um a little bit about book business, when you sell a book to a publisher like my my book American Buffalo in Search of a lass Icon was published by Random House in Random House owns everything about They owned the world rights to the book, and they can sell audio rights, so they sold the audio rights to another audio book company when it came out, and this audio book company hired. I don't want to disparage the guy. I'm sure he you know, hopefully loves his country and loves his family, but just did a horrible job, the worst job you could possibly imagine reading my book. When I got the audio version of my book and I turned it on, I couldn't. He didn't get a sentence out of his mouth. And I was across the room turning it off. It's that bad. It's not how it sounds. He doesn't get it. It's not how it sounds. It's like I would rather have had Alvin and the Chipmunks read this book. Like this man was so detached from the actual material that he wasn't capable. Yeah, he's a soap opera actor and like you could tell that he wouldn't be able to even imagine a world in which he could imagine what's in my head? Mm hmm. Anyhow, they had the rights for ten years. I did. I thought they had the rights in perpetuity. They had the rights for ten years. Random Houses got the audio rights back, and I just spent three days in a studio and I read the whole damn book from start to end, and it's now, it's already available. It seem going audible. You can going on your bookstore like the iTunes I whatever, what the hell is it called, Like the iTunes bookstore on your app on your phone, and it's me reading my damn book American Buffalo and searchable lost Icon read by me now and not some hoser. Yeah, Daddy long Legs, Daddy long Legs. So a lot of people have heard this claim that Daddy long Legs or one of the most venomous fighters in the world. But they lack the things big enough to like puncture human skin like they are like and if a bird eats him, it dies. Yeah, they're loaded. They're a loaded gun without a trigger. I'm very aware of this. I was over the weekend. It's a death sentence for every bird that we need to read our website. Morianni. He did. He just can't retain it right. So when we started looking into this claim, attempting to track on the origin, it was impossible. Could not figure out where this came from. But within our editorial team, we have people from Hawaii to Washington to Kansas, UM to Maryland, and every one of those people had heard this claim as a kid. So I it's say nationwide, maybe worldwide Kansas Morgan Mason, Oh yeah, I heard that growing up Texas. There we go, the whole country, probably a lot of the world has heard this claim. Um, But almost all of it is inaccurate. So for one, daddy long legs, they're not spiders. They are harvestmen, which is also a type of a rack nied. So right after bat this claim is they also do not have any venom in them. Um. But what they do have, and what maybe started like this theory or this rumor, is no venom at all, or no venom that can hurtanom at all. If something attacks a daddy long legs, their first line of defense are those long, brittle legs that could break off, and then they got seven more legs that can screw you away with And those legs will actually continue to twitch after something grabs them. So it's like it fools the predator, whatever it is, a bigger spider or some kind of bird or whatever grabs all these things. That's the first line defense. Second line of defense is something actually like gets them in their mouth. They secrete this like foul smelling, foul tasting, foul looking substance that basically makes whatever is eating them, if it has like a sense of taste, release them. Okay, So I'm guessing that's maybe what started this, is that somebody observed that some sort of amphib in eating one of these things and then spitting it out because of that foul tasting substance. But they have no venom um. And the other part of the this, you know, is that they favorite part they lack the big fangs, which they actually have. Their fangs are similar to a brown recluse in size the way brown brown recluse can penetrate skin no problem. They actually tested this on an episode of MythBusters. They got one of these things to bite somebody in a penetrated skin. But they lack like the aggressive attitude to bite anybody. And the primary use for those fangs is to pick stuff up and hold it while it eats it. So they have the fangs, they're not spiders, and they don't have any venom Basically, well, they're harvest men. That's like, I don't know, you know, it doesn't have the body type to fall into the spider category, right, Uh, so they are a member of the iractant class like spiders scorpions, they're not lumped in with spiders. Yep. So basically the whole thing is wrong. But I cannot track down where they started or why. But my theory would be that somebody observed them eating something spinning it back out, and that's how it came to be. Yeah, that's good. And somebody wrote in after they read that and said that they were relieved to here. This is great because they hunted an area, a swampy area that seems to have a lot of these things. And there was one instance where this guy was boat hunting and he shot a buck that ran off, and he gave it a few hours, and he went and started tracking it and after a few hundred yards he lost blood. He was down to just like pin sized bits of blood that he couldn't see in the dark, and he thought that this buck was lost. He wasn't gonna be able to find it. The blood trail was gone. At that point. He noticed like as he was kind of going down this trail on his hands and knees that a bunch of daddy long legs were congregating in certain areas every few feet, and those daddy long legs once he kind of shoot him away and noticed that they were on these pin sized bits of blood. Yeah, and so he actually used that for a long time to track this deer by watching where these daddy long legs were congregating, and was able to find that buck about five yards away. Don't you feel as a writer that if you're gonna take what you heard about daddy long legs being venomous and go out and find the truth of it, right and and do all that, don't you find that that contradicts a little bit? You then taking what this gentleman said and putting it out there as though we're sure that this is what happened. Yes, that's a good point. Something something that you might go to a daddy long leg um and caught your finger and put drop of blood and see if he in fact is interested in it. Um. I think that'd be a cool test. Something that I learned while writing this is that you can't listen to anybody, but you should. You should actually embrace like seeing daddy long legs around because their nature's little vacuums. These things will eat dead bugs, a fids, flies, fungus, moss, bird droppings, worms, snails. It's not if there was this matted down area in a swamp and blood was fallen there and there was a bunch of daddy long legs. I could see this happening, that they were picking up on where this blood was at and like congregating to that area. Have we talked before? I believe we have. I'm sure I don't you. Have we talked before about the fooled by randomness? Yes? Yeah, yeah, fooled by coincidence. Yeah, I'm aware this is very anecdotal, but we need to dig into it. But we don't. Have had to quite revise the Big Game Hunting Butchering Cooking guide Book to include that into the blood trailing section. Not quite yet, but maybe someday, because I think we should sell box day long legs and when you lose a trail, you scatter them around, giving him an pick trail back up again. Box of ten thousand day long like no venom, and they're numbered one through ten. Yeah, no venom. Uh, it's about it for precursory stuff. Oh, Danielle is gonna talk about Oh, no, one more quick thing. So cal's here, Spencer, you've been hearing from already, Danielle Pruett, it's here, Yanni, and then uh, there's a weird thing where there's a guy named Phil here who's always here, but he used to always be behind um a yellow curtain sometimes here, sometimes President engineering behind the curtain. But Phil now has got himself a new station, no Mike, but he's got a new station and he's present. So if you can feel the aura of of someone, you're feeling Phil, I'm gonna take a little video and we'll post it so people can see Phil behind an Okay, Spencer, would you might slide in your mic or to fill from it? I wasn't sure if I had permission to speak, But all right, how's it going, phil Um? Of the things we've talked about so far, do you have anything that you What has been your general impression the show so far? I learned something new every single time I sat in here. Has anyone said anything yet? And you're like, this person is so stupid. There's no way that's true. I wish they weren't here. No, not at all. No, this is it's good programming. If anyone's heard the Hunting Collective. I've been on a couple of times, and people who listen to that know that this is not my world at all. I ask, Yeah, I was hired because I know how to twiddle knobs and and click buttons on a computer and make this show sound good. Uh, but you haven't heard anything so far that you thought was just like like just like you like these people are horrible? No, absolutely not. Yeah, like being a front and center or do you like kind of having your own little office back there? Well, so, I mean Steve kind of brought this up earlier when he saw me. My mind wandered and I was staring into the far the far distance. What were you thinking about their bill? I was honestly thinking about a way to set these these boom arms up to ak you happy you're doing work. I was doing work, I thought, I called you not doing work. No, I was drifting off. I was trying to picture, like how how I could make this better. So I just wanted you to know you were still at work. I'm on the clock because I had I had actually already emailed to have your paid docked by thirty seconds. But okay, I appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah, so that's why I, at least behind my curtain, I was safe from you catching me thinking about with my eyes kind of partially crossed. Yeah, but yeah, no, I'm I'm happy to be here doing good so far. Yeah, thank you. Um Danielle, can you tell everyone about the proper way to about the property to ground brown ground meat? Yeah, So I started filming that because many many times when I first started cooking, I you know, you read arrest being you're like brown the meat and then step to you do whatever you're doing after, and it's just like this overlooked process. And I started to realize that browning to meat actually means that it should be brown. And and if you think about any other recipe, say you're about to brace something, why do we sear the meat before we stick it inside of a brazen liquid. It's to sear it, you're creating the mired reaction amino acids. They start caramelizing when it's the chemical chemical reaction between amino acids and protein when introduced to heat. They that's what's going on, and something gets crispy. Yeah, when you see hear something and you get that brown exterior, that golden crust. That is the reaction that's happening, and that is what flavor is. And I read something really interesting about that. Many years ago, from an evolutionary endpoint, humans began to learn what was safe to eat based on that reaction. So when you when you see it, when you have that reaction happening, it's the smell of roasted meats, toasted bread, coffee, all of those like roasty, nutty flavors that are happening. You know, you start to salivate when you smell barbecue or something being cooked. Um, And so I thought that was kind of an interesting, interesting thing, like why do you start salivating. It's you're telling your brain that this is good to eat. I can it's safe. So anyway, so you have these reactions happening in the pan, and that built a lot of flavor for what it. Whatever it is you're cooking and browning meat is really the same principle. So instead of just browning meat, just to cook meat through, because you're usually gonna add other things to it, like if you're gonna make a taco or like a pasta, like a bowl, these type of thing, you're still going to cook it and add other things to it, so it's not about really cooking the meat, it's about developing more flavor into the overall dish. I'm not trying to teach people this is how you cook meat through I mean, I mean, this is how you make something better. Is what I wanted to show because I think it's just very overlooked. And so I did that little video, which is just one way of browning meat in the way that I I did that was based off the fact that the meat was freshly ground. So like, that's another thing you should pay attention to. I personally like to grind meat and cook it instantly instead of I used to grind everything all at once when I was processing the deer, package it all up and then freeze it. And then I hated that mushy texture. Oh yeah, but I mean, but that's just like that's like but you can't but that's a convenience thing. Yeah, I know. I got two ways. So the way that I showed on the video was because it was freshly ground, you get all these like separated strands from like being extruded in the grinder, and you can separate it in the pan and you get all these nice little crispy bits. Now, if you have a package of ground meat defrosted and you notice that it's just sort of in a in a in a patty form, well you should definitely pat it really dry first with paper towels. I always do that, in fact, if it's really really bloody. Um, Like if you know, if you're grinding meat and like you're washing meat and you're grinding and like everything is just there's like a lot of water, and then you freeze it like that, and then you package it up and there's just tons of juices. I don't even set inside of a strainer, sat inside of another bowl and leave it in the refrigerator for several to Yeah, I get all that juice out. I used that nice Lexan thing that you guys started using up at the fish Shack, those like lex and containers that have the like the like the that's a good ass container, man. But you know what my the and we used to get those an anchorage and that that that that the places sold in the restaurant and supply a places sold that line picked up another line which isn't as good strainer. You can buy them just right down here at J and V on mend hole. Well they got him in town with the strainers. Yeah, they got the lids. Yeah, I always get him out of Maybe my brother get him forward. You you know ce to clean your rice. No, you know service containers. You know what alex san is lexan container. It's a material. It's just a hard plastic that they use in restaurants that like you can have hotel pans, half pans, all the different sized pans made out of if you don't want but you put hot it, you put hot water, and you put hot liquids in it. You got away from the cool. Yeah, like any of those plastics that you see in the in a restaurant kitchen. But these are like commercial food service containers that are like the most anyone that hunts and fishes should have these things. I don't care what the hell brand you buy. This is a hot tip right here. Let's yeah. And the lid, like you want to talk about lid? You got lids? I don't. I don't even know what kind I have. But the strainer, but the bottom it's basically a plate that sits maybe an inch off the bottom on little half inch okay, half an inch on like little plastic legs and it's just perforated. So whatever you put in there when you're throwing it out, it just naturally has a place to go. Yeah. Man, you put like your fish there, you put your fish filets in there, and put it in your fridge. They're not basing in their own works, just like your strainer and bowl is just like another thing to have in your kitchen, but a better thing. I just got, you know, the like the old like they look like flower pedals that come out a little steamer bass. I just got one of those for free. It's probably thirty years old. But that thing's great for putting in a variety of containers for just this exact thing because it'll you know, forms to a bowl, but also you can just like lay it out there on a plate. Let's stuff dry out. Uh. I want to get back to this though, because home and now, why is it important to have dry meat? Well? I want to comment on this because I know it. Sometimes will be in a restaurant that like prides themselves on their hamburgers and they like to point out never been frozen. And I always felt like they were taking a hit at me because I always grind up my meat and freeze it, man, you get some watery asked burger from freezing. Yeah, when you like freeze burger and thought out, a lot of water gets released from that. And it's funny you mentioned like that you're sometimes grind in it up and it's not dry. Yeah. Um, while whenever you're freezing, those liquids expand puncture the meat, and so you do lose more juices. So that's why when before you freeze it, you're like, yeah, there's just a little bit of juices in there, no big deal. And then you defrost it and you're like, where did this come from? Looks like somebody you know anyway, So yeah, draining, straining it out, patting it really dry and then if it'd already sort of in a mound like question, Okay, how if you take a paper towel and go to pet ground meat doesn't just stick to the paper towel, No, huh made a little bit and you can just dry it off. Are you padding like the brick of meat or you like spreading the actually put it out on a big I use sheet trace for like all prep work. Um, either big sheet tray, spread it out in a thin layer and I'll take several pieces of paper towels, set it on top until it all blots as dry as I can, or as much as I have the patience. What's your paper towel budget? I go through like one pack of paper towel a year. Really, Oh my god, because he because he gets sucked in much for drying meat. I was at a dude towel, but I don't use it for anything else, like if I spill something, or like, you know, like kitchen cleaning. I don't ya. I was at a guy's house recently and he I don't know, but I assume he has an anti paper towel agenda. So he's using kitchen towels and we're cleaning fish and everything's getting like kitchen toweled. And then I looked at the pile of stuff that needs to be washed. It's gotta smell so bad. Well, I'm just like wandering. Like when you factor in the wall, like, I don't know. I don't know about industrial processes, when you factor in like a bunch of andre and the soaps and water usage, I don't really know. Like I don't know what goes into making parent, you know, I think that one load of towels is less energy or environment. However, you when you put is, I would think sowels' I'd be curious to not because I remember thinking like, oh, that's a cool idea. He doesn't use paper towels. But then after while I'm like, but he damn sure he uses his laundry machine. Oh yeah, yeah. I was camping with my mom my stepdad, and my stepdad was telling me how my mother has reduced him to a two paper towel two squares of paper towel per day a lot, because she felt that his paper towel use was just way over the top. So my mothers paper towels so much that when she set something on the table, she likes to set it she likes to put a paper towel down, like let's say, but for anything. So let's say she has remembered that she needs to take like a medical like a pill, like like like she has to take an ibuprofen. Later after she eats, she will I don't know, watch, I don't know what's going on, but uh, she'll lay down a paper towel and then put the pill on it. And then what is the life of the paper towel after that it's done. My great grandmother used to babysit us a lot, and you know she was she went through the depression, and I remember, I remember she would she would take those paper towels, wash them, airm dry amount. I mean she would use a piece of paper towel until like it was just nothing but just disintegrated. That's interesting. I haven't thought about it about my my great aunts did that too, Dan Bagan's wife our fish shackle dry them out, depending what's going on. Yeah, where nothing dries, I'll propose in the Ronella household, I think we have a healthy relationship with paper towels. Uh, we have them and now and then we use a couple. That's it. Okay, we have a healthy relationship with them. I'm doing a better job with plastics in the kitchen. I switched out to all the reusable ziplock bag stuff. Re expensive. They're expensive, so you like really yeah, because when you wash them, I just flip them inside out, scrub them and then they kind of prop up to air dry inside out. That's what I was worried about, was like getting dirty and the like crevices what do they call. Once I bought were stashers. Yeah, it looks like a zip Maybe mine were very heavy due retails more instead of like like through a dishwasher. Can you see what's in it? Yeah, you can get clear or colored. Dude, How might I have to get a couple of I probably bought six or eight of them, various sizes from like you know, small little snack pack too. I think the biggest one I got was a gallon and I think I spent a hundred bucks with shipping. How many do you wind up with? Six or eight? Well, they're good for what they're used for. You know, we're not going to travel to Alaska and then put a bunch of caribou meat in them and instead of using zip blocks and fly back with them. You know, that's not what they're for. But for like instead of using zip blocks around the house. They're great. Let me do this environ Let me do an environmental test on you. I turned you onto uh if I say so myself. Pretty nice chantral mushroom spot over the weekend. Yes, thank you very much. You went out there and did pretty well for yourself. Right, I feel like you told me that you had two plastic bags full of mushrooms that's right. It what kind grocery plastic? Yeah, re using them. That's a good point. You're recycled. Do you want to get back to ground meat? I mean vax steal bags. No. I thought you said you were gonna start doing that. Oh what am I saying? No? No, no, no no no? Oh man, you want to hear a story about that? I did. I just washed one, drive it and put it back up. Awesome. I've done one sample. But check this out. Last night, I'm putting some stuff away in my garage. The other day, we went over to Um to the Roscoe family for dinner. Kurt's been on the show before Stone Gracier backpacks. Uh, Kurt Roscoe, founder and designer. He's been on the podcast. Uh. And maybe we had some guy wrote in about how he's harder than a woodpecker's lips. Anybody's went to the Roscoe family for dinner and I brought over as a you know when you go to someone's house, you bring him a little gift. I brought over a um a bunch of fish, haliban whatnot. And I brought it over one of those hoppers, a yetie hopper, and I was like, hate it as a bunch of fish in their go ahead and put in your freezer, and then I bring my thing home. Well when they don't know this yet, but when they were emptying the bag out, they failed to grab This is a couple of weeks ago, failed to grab out a pack of halib it. Last night, I'm in my garage and I'm like, what in the world is that? It's a smell that I I've smelled some smells in my day, like I have smelled h I would ventures to have smelled more smells than of Americans. Um. And this smell was hard to place, and it was hard to track down, and because like you know, you don't think to look in certain places. And I eventually realized that they had left a pack of halib it and it was in a wet, some backseal bag. The bag hadn't failed, but it had puffed up like it was gonna explode with a hunk of green halibit inside of it. You ever see a link cod that has that phenomena? Were day they have blue flesh that it's a name for it. Green Lane got it too. This had turned like an iridescent green inside that bag bag. And I handled very delicately because they had blown up like a balloon but hadn't ruptured. No liquid, but you could smell it. The smell smell it, and it was smelly in the bag. I bleached out the hopperd it's fine. No liquid had come out, but somehow it had. It had gotten so putrid that had put off like a putrid effort. The liquids couldn't, but the gas just stinch of this rotten flesh. So this was the first bag that he rinsed down and decided to try to reuse. You know what I did do, though, is I went and put it in my I was afraid because I wasn't gonna put in my garbage because there's a few days coming and bears will get into it. Why not you didn't hang it up on the on the kid's piece of wood that they throw a star hanging on the throwing star target. I put it into my freezer and then I made it look unappealing and just make sure no one thought, I wrapped it up with some other ship and put in my freezer and then I'm gonna throw it in the garbage. But my guy, was that bad smell. But one time, uh, when I was living my brother daniel Alaska. We brought home some halibit and we had put him in a dry bag and then put the dry bag in the cooler. I don't know why, and someone had forgot to pack a halib and there, and we took his gear room apart three times trying to find out what smelled, and no one ever thought to look inside of folded up, rolled up dry bag until the third time. We took everything apart and eventually found that rotten, say, act of fish. You should have had a box of Yanni's patented non venomous Daddy long legs, turn them loose with with pits on them, pit tags on them, and track them to the rock to the stink. We covered everything else. We're back to uh, back to me, Yeah, we're good. On side notes. The thing that Danielle is going to answer my question now about is it important to have dry meat when you when you go to brown itt. Uh. Well, very good question. And this supplies across the board for searing things that moisture. When it hits the pan, it's steaming the meat. It's not going to create a crust. So this means if you pull it right out of the fridge and immediately hit the pan. What happens, It steams because it's really cold hitting high heat. The same thing happens if you're gonna grill a fish whole skin on. If you put it on the grill while it's still cold, it's going to start steaming. And then that skin doesn't get crispy, he's gonna stick to the stick to the grill grates. Um. So yeah, so drying it out, doing the best you can to prevent excess moisture will give you the best chance for getting a crust. I feel that of the ground meat I've browned in my life, and I've browned a fair bit of it. I feel like that I've boiled most of it because we you know, like if you're lazy, you don't thought out well even I'll even take like the frozen wat of it and put some oil in the botta of the pan and just speed thought in the pan. And so you know what I mean, It is not browned. It's like you're basically you should say, like I'm gonna boil up a bag of ground meat. That's what you're basically doing is like steaming. Yeah, you can put your broccoli right on top of the time. Yeah, you've never done that, You've never gotten like that lazy. No, I've I've been done a lot of lazy things. Um, I've gotten to the you know, I've gotten to the point where I This is a famous line my father in lie father in law told me a long time ago, and I'm stealing it. Be careful what you introduce your taste buds do, because why don't you start doing things the right way? You just can't go backwards, you know, like once it's hard, like when I know it's something is supposed to taste, like taking a bag of half frozen meat and it's like, I'm just gonna throw it in. It's not that I wouldn't do it that way, it's just I would I wouldn't say I'm going to go brown the meat. I would just say, why don't we just slow cook this with a bunch of liquids because it's already got a ton of liquids in there, so just skip the browning step. Are there any exceptions to it? Like or do you do this when you're doing chilia? You know, it's not that you have to do it that way, it's just think of it as a better way to introduce more flavor, a deeper, richer flavor of more meatiness to what you're eating as opposed to Yeah, I think about you know, there's some if you're going to cook an onion, there's a difference between sweating an onion, and there's a difference between caramelizing an onion. So that reaction when those sugars and the proteins mixed, they caramelize, that's the crust that's happening. That's that flavor. If you are sweating, steaming, introducing heat. You know, think about onions that are just constantly mixed and they taste so much more mild and flavor. They're not as sugary. You don't. You don't have the same. So it's not necessarily that I'm gonna say one way is right or wrong. I'm just saying there's there's ways to make it better. You can have rich, full, meaty flavor or boiled meat exactly. So what's the next step in the process. You've petted it, dry, heat your pan ripping hot. Yeah, I'm back and forth on how hot to do things. Once the pan's hot, then I add oil and you know, when the pan's hot and oil is hot. What's your royalties days your avocado oil? Grape high heat? That Costco avocado oil is hard to be Is that really? Like? I like, I use Gee a lot. So that's another thing. I just got a Costco membership and I feel like I'm just like on full blown path to being a yuppie. I have never shopped at Costco buying. And what was your old What was your father in law talking about careful, what you introduce your taste? What was he referring to? I know, like that that really resonated with me eating Okay, he said that to me when I was when when I was still dating my husband now husband, he took us out to eat as nice steakhouse. I'd never had full gral before before, and it was a nice bottle of wine. And before we ate it, he's like, be careful what you introduced your taste? Butts to you and I'm like, oh, I'm officially ruined um anyway, But I just like saying that. No, it's good because you know, I had never had a lot of exposure to cultured, moneyed people until I moved to Montana, and I didn't know about good coffee. I didn't know about high end coffee. We just drank coffe from the gas states, totally happy with it. I never thought there was any problem. Yeah, then I found out about fancy coffee. It's hard to go. Then I recognized that the gas station coffee, but but I never realized the problem with it. And then the hot dogs on the rollers and gas stations. Never had any problem with those hot dogs. Yeah, then you found out them. Yeah, I mean there are like but you know there's a different are Yeah, there are all their hot dogs out there in the world. Right. I think it's it's it's a really it's a really great it's a good observation that your old man had or your dad, your husband's all man. Yeah, I think it's just something that the more I cook, the more that I just enjoy relishing the way things are supposed to taste, and they want to make it the best every time. And sure there's plenty of times where I'm really lazy, But if I'm going to do something the lazy way and then I'm just not going to cook that wricipe, I'm just gonna cook something simpler. Can you tell something to your father in law when you see him next is he still alive? Tell him when he says that next day, not necessarily, and then tell him that I've actually kind of like over time I used to be. I got for a while really interested and really like complicated good food. Then I got kind of sick of it. Yeah now I'm like, now I got sick of it. Now. I just like things that look like I just now. I like food that looks like a guru out of the ground or just got chopped out of an animal. That's like my normal. That's like how I like it to look. I like to look like it looked like it was alive a minute ago. And I gotten away from stuff that's hard to make. I think that's true for anybody the more that you cook. When I started cooking, I wanted Demi place on every time I ate a steak, and it was just everything got so rich and so heavy. And then I kind of scaled back to just eating food the way they're meant to be in and I could pure form and we appreciate the natural nous in. And when you start eating that way, everything becomes more bolder flavors without the need of like salt. I'm really sensitive to salt. Now I don't. I don't like to have really salty foods um, But no, I get what you're saying is like kind of scaling down to the basic natural. Yeah, Like if you could went to my house at dinner time, any jack as could come in and look at the table and be like and he would tell you everything that was on the table, like everything that was in everything. Just be well, it's like some lettuce, you know, that's like this, that's like that. It's no, there's nothing, just stuff that came out of the dirt. Man. I'd be like, where's the demo class? No, you know what I'm saying. Man Like, But for a while I was into really making stuff that was complicated because I just thought it was fun to make it, it was fun to eat. It's really good, but it has got burned out, so tell him. Tell them like up to a point. But then people get old and they go the other direction, and then there's like the category of nostalgia meals too. You know, it's like we didn't the bulk of what we ate as far as like day to day growing up as a kid was not anywhere near super thought out or gore mat you know, like the whole genre of casse roles helped by Campbell's Yeah, like back when I don't know, I imagine people still do it. But um, like, were there as certain meals your mom would make and they were almost patterned, Like your mom made like eight things, and they were they sort of repeated, Yeah, would you like this, Like there's like meat like that you make, there's like, you know, like there's meat loaf, and then they make a sheet pizza and they make this and then like the next Tuesday, it just kind of starts over. Next Tuesday, it's going to be a casserole. So my kids claim that there's a little bit of that going on in my house now. Again, but back to your father in law's advice, I don't think that necessarily means fancy over prepared food because in the case of FLI gra like that's usually served very very simply seared, salt and pepper, maybe may or may not have a little sauce on it. Um, and so it could be something like for me, I never really had good seafood until I was well into my twenties, and when I first started eating and I was like, holy shit, this is I need more of this. Yeah, that's a great point, necessarily as a gourmet perspective as it is, as it is earning to appreciate things. Um like what I'm saying. Brown, properly browned meat adds so much flavor, And once you start doing it that way, I appreciate it so much that I can't not brown it if I'm cooking ground meat like that. Again, careful what you're what you're introducing yourself to you because now every time you go to cook, you're gonna have a level of expectation. Yeah, I think I was guilty of trying to jam in an unrelated point, not still, I mean it's still applicable because if you went and uh, properly browned some ground and venison and then did the old like boil, the accidental boil, and then there's put a little salt on each and had a fork full of each the brown with like the nice crisp and everything is a whole other world. Yeah, not even the same thing, definitely. But have you got so particular that you don't like to just freeze up a hundred pounds of grind like you're pulling the damn grinder out. I don't expect anybody to. Okay, So it's different because now this is my job and so I get to be at home and I get to do this. And I think if anybody wanted to go this route, I would just say, make make time on a Sunday or whatever day you have off and grind three pounds four pounds of meat and just eat it throughout the week instead of like every night, I gotta get the grinder out, If that makes any sense. I mean it makes a difference to me, and I like doing it that way, but it's it's just not really practical, it's not, but it does make a difference. I read that somewhere to once and try to do it. I think for something like if you're like really going to serve some burgers to guests, it might be worth it, right, But if you're doing tacos and chili for the kids, like, yeah, something like chili that's already going to be braised in a lot of liquids, I don't think it matters that much. So this kid brings me to my second way of browning. So like the first way, well don't if we finished this one, Yeah, it's we haven't finished it. Version of this show, Phil take note. Maybe we make an edited version where all the dumb ships cut out. It's just like the actual stuff that matters. A five minute version of the podcast, which is like what matters, and then you get your nine minute version with all the stupid shit in it. Yeah. Million, So far you've got the meat that's padded dry, a pan that is piping hot with boil, and then yeah, so I was just saying, like, if it's a fresh grind, you can actually separate like each each meat strand that's extrude. You can separate and you get lots of teeny tying crispy bits. But when you defrost it from the freezer, it's all sign it sort of mashed together. So I put it in the pan in one flat layer, smashed together. Let a whole brown as if you're browning a giant patty, and then take a spatch and flip the whole thing over. Definitely off on, we'll trap the steam you want to release the liquids anyway. That's I'm done with the browning of the meat. Just satisfied with that. Yeah, But that that's part that's like the one way to do it. That's a second way I mean it's some individual. I'm just saying, if you can separate it out, if it's like fresh grind. If it's not a fresh grind, then you can form a flat patty to cover the whole pan. But you gotta leave it alone, let a nice crisp develop and then flip the whole thing and brown it all on the break. That like a giant thin giant. Yeah. Yeah, I would like to say it with my catchum kitchen. I had for a show to kitchen all sorts of content, but I had a hand grinder that was there all the time, just lived on the counter and it I mean, it takes less than ten minutes to grind burgers for six people, as long as the meats pretty you know, in a in a good place to grind. It was it a grinder or a paster grinder? It was a grinder ground. What's a past like doesn't work? That's yeah, yeah, puts out like it puts out like a Bologny paste. Yeah, likewa whatever, everything like we have growing up, we had like what we called like the grinder. It was a hand grinder. In hindsight, it was like it was like if you'd like put all your meat between a couple of steel plates and then draw car a handful of times and then like put that in a bag and frols it. That was our ground. No, no, but yeah, hand grinder it. And you know the beauty of the hand grinder is that it is very simple to clean too. And I think they're small enough to where mentally you're not thinking that you're taking on some big endeavor. Dude, Am I to start keeping a hand grinder? It's great. Put your hands in there and no grind your hands off makes a serious, serious difference. I think fresh burger, what fat content are you guys going? Oh, yeah, that's a good question for you, Daniel. Yeah, you know, I think if you're going to make a sausage you definitely need fat. Is that all you do? I if I had to pick one for the rest of my life, I would do fifteen for burger and I do heavier twenty for sausage. You do more than twenty for sausage. Yeah, Like we've done the wild game, We've done getting fat, getting fancy wild game flavored meat. Yes, I'm glad you're bringing this up. I was going to a chef Buddy Mileag just in town a couple of weekends ago, and I was lamenting to him how the first time I made Steve ken Drots fennel sauce address be it's not his, but he shared it with us. I call it his same way I call the marriage thing yours. It's pork fat, and this is actly it's like pork pork fat, dude, this is a This is some good pork fat venison. And the recipe actually calls for venison. It's not beef or or whatever veal um, yeah, which is still beef, but it's and it's wonderful sausage. But when you cook it, no matter how slow and carefully you do it, because the slower, lower temperature you do you shouldn't shouldn't lose as much fat, you still end up with, like I mean, a solid if you're cooking six links in a pan, there's a solid inch of fat when you take them out right. So I'm like, dude, this sucks, like I'm losing something, but the sausage is still so good. Like I didn't want to change anything, and like he was here, like poaching the meat. In fact, that'd be called frying. But you do it inside too, And if you do that low enough tamp you really don't fry. But that's a but he was saying the quality and the time, Yeah, but it was a funny, appreciate it. But he was saying, the type of fat from where on the pig and the quality of it will have a lot to do with that. Yeah. But this dude, Yann he's talking about cut I quick. This dude Yanni's talking about is so next level that he Okay, if he's making coffee he takes a filter and runs hot water through it for to get out the flavor of the paper factory, like a regular old brown paper filter or a white one. He gives it like a Yeah, he was not careful about his taste buds. He did not father in law. He has not met your father in law. No, he's been eating truffles and all that stuff. But I'm saying it's legit. But I'm saying this is next level. This is next level food prep that goes beyond the aspirations of this show. But it's valuable to know anyways. Yeah, but I'll I'll dose zero fat additional fat in my burger. It's just like whatever that turns out to be. And I've I've had incredible luck and served that to lots and lots of folks that eat nothing but beef burger with a lot of fat. Um. But when you're making your different sausages, and you know, obviously like the world's your oyster as far as like what want to put into a tube? Um, But yeah, I think some like doing a like course ground linked Italian sausage with a bunch of fat in there, and with the going into it with like the way I'm going to prepare these is very slow, uh, lower heat, and you get that meat to like poaching that fat. It's very very good. And then but and you're also the end result isn't a greasy sausage either, because that that fat is getting away from from the meat. I'm sure it's not not for all things all the time, just like most of stuff we talked about. But I don't go, oh god, I'm wasting this wild game. Yeah no, I know, man, it's like it's a little bit of a sthetic. We've talked about it all well. You and I got pretty heated when on our Idaho trip um when we were cutting up your buck, because I was like, hey, this this meet is really good this at a whole mule deer is gonna be really tasty. And you're like, listen, I need to make sausage. So I'm going to grind this deer and basically every chunk of meat that had come up with. I'd be like, yeah, but don't you want this? And You're like, no, I need to make sausage. Um, you guts familiar with the cut that that we named after Callahan called the Callahan throat roast, I am, I didn't know that. Actually you knew that. I called it throat loins like a tenderloin on the track? Who can? Who can take a stab at explaining what a throat roast is? You had to. You had to break it down in the written word. So I haven't done it yet. I'm going to on either side of the trachea. Yeah, Like if you were to extend your chin up to the ceiling right now and then put your two index fingers on either side out of your atom's apple, that big chunk of meat that should be on that in going to the outside. You're doing a great job of your neck. Those are your throat rolls or throat tenderlins. We're coming up a moose and and someone got to digging around and arrow when we're coming it up and found those big on a moose er sizeable. Yes, And I remember Cal was like just thaying like he thought he discovered a previously undiscovered roast and you're supposed to report back to us. Yeah, it tasted like moose. I don't think there is any major discoveries there. What did you find, Daniel? I haven't messed with the yet. I have some ideas, but I don't want to disclose them yet. Okay, yeah, but you're gonna do something special to throat rolls. Yeah, I've got them separated. So I've got a trial that act and then fix the error and then do it again. Second back unique grain. You know, it's a very cross wise and look at it from the side. There's it's like it's like a tube inside of a tube. But there's a sheath of silver skin in a circle. That makes sense. It almost reminds you of like a like a shank, except there's no bone. Does it make sense? Uh? Daniel? Imagine that you're, um, you're dying, okay, trying to think of what's killing You're dying of congenital heart failure no very common in the UK. There's name something a bite from a daddy long leg, okay, manage you got bit by daylong. And it turns out that you read Spencer's thing. You're like, oh, it doesn't matter you Uh, you started being careless around them. You're out blood trailing a buck and they're all over the blood as as they're wanting to do. And you lay down to take a nap and um and one gets you and you're dying. And as you expire, someone asked you, like, what's your last wild game tip? What would you say? You could pass along one wild game tip salt your meat in advance, so you'd be like, um, how far can you do it? As you die? For me? Like SALTI SALTI salt. You come to me, child, I'm leaving this world just for me. Do it not too much? Just a little? Do you do you rub it in? Do you sprinkle on top and call it good? Or you get your hands in there? Watch for that daddy? Do this? You gotta do it all. Almost brought myself to tears imagining myself dying so clearly come to me, all right, I don't know ahead of talk about that ahead of time as a a that's a broad notion what ahead of time is, because it could be seconds before you cook it. It could be. That's a good point, because I am back and forth on the debate on how far in advanced I've gotten to the point either either I do it like thirty minutes an hour in advance at minimum, or a wait to do it after that? Would rather do it? Um like a very pain imagine a very painful death where you're otherwise screaming in agony. Can you do that version for me? No? Go on? Um. So, salt is probably the most important thing in your pantry and your best friend when it comes to wild game cooking, because like the way you would brine a turkey before Thanksgiving, it's d natures the protein strands, so the actual structure. You've got these long fibers that are sorted intertwined together. It can actually unravel and untwist them, and it has sort of an osmosis effect. The longer it's sitting in salt or a brine, the more the meat is able to sort of reabsorb those juices, so that when you go to cook, less juice is lost through the cooking process. So your meat is juicier. But it's talking about strands of protein. You're talking about like on a microscopic level. This is something you can say, well, I mean if you were to look at a brisket or you know, you can see like how there's long fibers. But I am talking about exactly. Um, but microscopically, yes, protein strands. You're not seeing that happening. No, you don't know. You don't see it happen. But if you do it right before, it kind of releases a lot of liquid. So that's where I'm on the fence of I don't want to salt right before I cook because I want a really nice seer. So it's like i'd rather just I was going to bring that up like I sealed it, like I'm about to see like the way I would season to meet. It's a it's a healthy sprinkle, and I salt and pepper, and I would do that the morning I planned to cook some before I cook. Um just really, I mean the longer the better. I mean I haven't really explored extremely long times doing it other than I think two days for jack rabbit, I've done that, but um, yeah, doing salting it in advance just so much for helping wild game retaining juice and one of the reasons why we lose so much juice when we cook. Obviously the heat you lose juice, but wild game is so lean. So if you're thinking about like a domestic animal, not only are they having fat on the outside of a muscle, but inside there's little pockets of fat embedded in between those fibers of muscle. And so whenever you're cooking, fat acts as a as a barrier to heat transfer. So it's slower to cook. Wild game cooks a lot faster, you lose more juice and you don't have that mouth feel of fat juices when you're binding into a meat of a wild game. So I think adding salt beforehand makes a huge, huge difference. That is my dying wish to give dying piece of advice. Yeah, dying advice. Uh. We talked about this, and I think people have will have already heard this because we'll have already released it, but yeah, they will have. We talked about with Jesse Griffith's the Texas chef from your state there, and we're but not on this subject. We're just talking about why do people when you're frying fish, why do they season the breading rather than just seasoning the fish, Like, get the piece of fish exactly how you want it seasoned, and then put your cor meal on it, rather than trying to like figure out how the hell much seasoning to put into the corn meal and how much is the fish gonna pick up at the actual season. Just season the fish, yeah, then put cormeal on, and then you have the perfectly piece of season fish with cormeal for the crispiness. That's a good point. I think that season the porn Mill, I did a double double still season and stuff. But now I'll put it now it's like I did double batter, so you get like lots of extra crunchy and you can put cay in it, so it's like I taste that cayenne on the breading. I'll tell you why I would put. I put paprik in there now, and it's got like the color, Yeah, it's a nice color. But I like that. And I also like that when I do pre salt meat like you're talking about it does uh moisture comes out of it. I never thought to do it and then let that some bit dry back out again. It's not that it's going to really dry back out. It's it can reabsorb juices. But I mean it does pull moisture out. So there's if you're adding a ton of salt, then that's that's a little different. I'm not I'm not talking about adding a whole layer of salt. If you're going to add a bunch of salt, then that's that's a different effect. That is curing and that is drying out um, drying out meat. So that's a little bit different. Um. Which is something I do days in advance for birds. If I want crispy skin, I'll put salt on it a few days in advance and set it out on the on like what do you call it, Like a wired cooling rack. There's air breathing, and let it sit in the open for a couple of days. It gets a lot crispier that way. My brother Danny, he likes to just take big chunks of moose meat or whatever and just sets them out a cooling rack and his fridge. He leave in there for a week. Yeah, just letting me get a crusted on them. Yeah. I used to do a lot of stuff that I had too many kids, and I was just like, everything's kidding. You don't have control over your fridge. It's just just just boiled me. Okay, how how would you like to die? Oh? My last final? Yeah, it's help for me to know. Calls how I'm gonna die. People moving a piano above you, but you wouldn't have he sees it coming, sees I'm watching it come and you have to spout out one last wild Game too. It's the end. Mm hmm. I can come back to you. Oh man, the pianos coming loose. I hope nobody's underneath us. There's Johnnie. What's he saying? It's something about wild Games music on the piano plays. Uh, this is heavy duty. I can we can catch by, I can come back to me. I can't give you just any old tip. Phil, you probably have one. No, you asked me if I've heard anything stupid on the show. Yeah, asking me about Wild Game. That was the first stupid thing anybody said. Spencer, you want to go, I can go. If you're not ready yet, I can go. Okay, So there you are. What's caused death probably congenitive failure of recent events earthquakes, so a lot of them going on here. If you don't die from an earthquake, you die from situations surrounding an earthquake. Right. Well, we're like a few days past the sixtieth anniversary of Hegen light quake. Okay, so you're camping in a large mountain, camping down at Hegen Lake. It fell on you and you're under hundreds of feet of rocks and you know that there's no survival, but you probably have a long time. Okay, you're in your you're you're in your you're grounding something not in your car. The cars protected you. Um, you have no way of moving, there's nothing to eat, but there you are. But somebody's fished tube down to you that you can talk into the rescuer. Um, I would say. And I used to be like pretty stubborn about this is using a meat thermometer when I wasn't like super competent with my wild game cooking. I thought it was like admitting defeat. Almost if you use a meat thermometer, you're like showing your ignorance for I don't know how to get this to medium rare. And like, once I started doing that, it made me a way better cook, like for that specific piece of meat and then future pieces of meat that it was cookie as well when they didn't have to use that meat ther mometer. So I would say, like, that would be my diag wish. If you're not confident, if you, uh, I feel like you're constantly overcooking or pulling something out that's underdone, just use me meat the monter. It's so easy and it makes like a big difference in the long run. Let's say I was passed out in the back seat of that car that got crushed under the earthquake rubble. I would wake up and I would say, um, you'd say your thing, and then I would say, but only if it's a halfway decent meat thermometer, because I've had a lot of meat the moters over the years. Dude, you pull it out of the counter, you pulled it out of the or, and it's like, oh, that's weird. My house is a hundred ten degrees. It's like, there are a lot of meats alter that are useless. Yes, you have to check it. There's like all kinds of ways to calibrate them. Yeah. I was gonna say, don't you could just calibrate it. I never did you that. I now have what I call a Steve ken drot, which just as just as I'd like to credit him with the sauceage recipe, I credit him with basically manufacturing the meat thermometer that he told me to purchase. What is that thing? I didn't buy one, and I think it's slick as ship man. You're not talking thermopan, right, Yeah, that is it? Red with a poker. The poker like turns on that little LCD screen every time. Yeah, yeah, that's what you're talking about. I've taken I've I've done my well, my kids didn't feel well. I made him suck on that thing. See they had a hot fever. I haven't had to calibrate that, trust you. Yeah, but yeah, but it's a trust eat once you get dialed and you know, that's what I would say from the back seat. Yeah, but overusing them, it's a good one. Like I'm my phase on my steaks, on my burgers. It just made a big difference in the long run of like making me more competent cook. Yeah, because why have it be that you don't know if you overdid it until you go to the table and cut into it. But I think there's a lot of people left. I think to like my family specifically, I've never seen them use and meet thermometer, and I think there's a lot of people like that that just I don't know, don't realize how great of a tool it is. Well, if you look at like my body, uh, Pooter Andrew chef Rad Jilowski, he walks around the meat thermometer stuck in his pocket. He's a professional chef, So if he's willing to admit his yeah, you know the other thing that pro stress usually walk around with it in their pocket. Come on, I'm gonna take a guess at it. Anybody phone tongs, Well, that would be that would be used in the cooking application, in the kitchen application, but as sharpie because they're always freaking marking ship what it is and putting a date on. Yeah, and that's like, that's not gonna be my my last dying advice, but that's a that's a pro moves do that. I hate looking leftovers and be like was that last before that we had the taco meat cal you want to go? I'm ready, I'm ready to go. Oh. I think my dying advice on wild game cooking is just cause of death. Real quick plane going down. Okay, so it's you survived the initial impact or you're spiraling to the surf to the earth. Well that one making I must have survived the initial impact. But you know now that this is not gonna happen for you. Yeah, that makes more sounds like your legs, your back. Yeah, nobody nobody dies easy in my family. Everybody lingers on. So probably just for this reason. So it's just your like, it's just your head, like your torus souls elsewhere and your heads like make sure to yeah, make sure whatever you do to just keep trying, keep cooking. That's what I would say. That's if you can produce food that somebody in your family or circle will not eat, then you don't need to hang out with those people. It's a good litmus test either way. So it's a two piece of advice. It is going to eat for a little bit, just just so. One, you're only gonna expand your repertoire if you just keep trying things. Don't get stuck in or rut doing the same old things, but like try something new. Uh. And if you're nervous about producing something that could potentially like somehow ruin a relationship, that's a good thing as well, because if it actually does ruin the relationship, those people aren't worth hanging out with. Get him out of get him out of your circle. Yeah, I saw some reason this saying that their wife doesn't like wild Game. I'm like to get a new wife. And I'm like a pro marriage dude. Right, Yes, I'm like a spokesman for being married. You are a spokesman for being married. I can't be around uh, certainly can't be around your wife without hearing about marriage, that's for sure, like her thinking you ought to be marriage. Yes, I'm gonna go pro grill tip. Just got into a fight with the grizzly bear. I did rip his jaws apart, so he's dying as well. He's with you. He's gonna give a wild game tip. He's gonna be like I love uncle berries. Yeah, when they're right after the first frost, when there's sugar spikes, that's the best. But one of the swivees, one of the swis really eat a lot of honey. Contrary to popular opinion, one of the swives took me, got me across my abdomen and my guts are hanging out a lot of blood. So we're beyond the piano. Oh yeah, that wasn't that exciting the piano? But no, I got this tip because I saw on your Instagram. I forget what kind of meat you had on the grill, but somebody or a couple of people remarked how you had your grill grades in upside down. Yeah, and they were right, they were right. Well I noticed that, and then like a week or two later, I think that most people in America's check this out. We buy my brother in law buys a brand new we Ever from Ace Hardware, and listen, I love Ace. I'm not bashing Ace. It's like ACE is the place I believe it. I get such feels like, yeah, I walk in there with a freaking random bolt or lightbulb or whatever, and I just like hold it in the air and somebody walks up to me and goes follow me, like every single time. It's not like going into a home depot or oh my god, no nothing. If I can get it to Ace, I'm going to Ace. Anyways, we he bought a brand new Webber grill and that day you could get assembled and delivered, shows up and next day I'm out there flipping burgers, and I'm like, god freaking burgers are just like sticking, and like my burgers are like in the grates, Like, what in the hell is going on here? I looked down, like son of a bitch, those grills are upside down. It's an epidemic, man, because when you look at it, it looks you think for some reason, your mind so like one this uh grill happened to have two grades and uh stay sit side by side, and when you pick one up and look at it, one side sort of has like a triangular shape to the grill bar. I'm gonna call it right, and it sort of comes to a point almost the other side. If you flip it open, the bottom of that triangle is like the bottom of the triangle is fly right. For some reason, everybody's brain thinks that the pointy burn lines into it. Yeah, exactly, that's exactly what it is. Where in fact, when you do that, like in case with these burgers, the burgers sink in between those holes and those pointy I just pushed too much, and you and then when you run your spatula underneath that burger, you're not gonna get underneath that burger really, And then you need to take the corner of your spatulate and scrape it along there to get that stuff out. Yes, or in my case, what I did is I transferred all the burgers over the one side and just flip those grates and let that stuff burn off. And uh yeah, so when your grates are flat, you can run a spatula and stuff soon and you don't have to, um be scraping all that stuff off all the time. I'm glad I saw that. I'm glad I did that post on Instagram. And normally when like there's there's people who like you on Instagram, you want to share something that that you like or that you feel whatever likes something like it'll be of interest us two people. H it'll be you know, provide entertainment people. And no matter what you do, there's always the like critic. Yes, they'll zoom in to find things in the background to say negative thing if it's if it's like, if it's not readily apparent what they could say negative, they will like zoom the image until they can find something that they can say negative about what's in the background. Um, they'll they'll find some negative thing about it. It'll be like, yeah, great job on those burgers. They look perfect, But I see you're wearing flip flops and that's not very SI. Or I see a plastic water bow in the background. Um. You know, you say you like conservation, but obviously your whole life's a lie because I zoomed and someone had left. You know, there's like that guy. Normally, the noise that those people make in my mind is it makes this noise when I'm reading their comments. It sounds like this, right, It's like that noise. But the do would notice the grill was like, hey man, you know in a super cool way. It was like, you know, your grills are upside down, And I was like, I initially wanted to be like, don't you tell me how to set my grill up? I looked like, God, him, he's right, He's right. I have two cents on this, but I don't think it really applies in your situation. Because of the way that the greats are pointed at one end, sometimes they're made to be flipped both ways because some ways are you complexiflying complexifying right now, Sometimes you can get higher over the coals, and if you flip it around, you get low on the coals. For hotter heat. So sometimes they're meant to be flipped. Mh. But but then but the great would be the same way. It doesn't change on mine. Yeah, the great would be still be the same, right, it would just adjust the height, like the shape of the surface would still remain the same if it was if you had a flipper style, yeah, you would have would notice that one side would be just barely on top of the coals versus another side would be raised up higher. I like good throwing the cast iron on the grill to like with you know, the tragger where you got a lot of smoke going around, so you get indirect heat, but so you get like the pancake griddle flat top cooking, but you get some smoke in there too. I like that a lot. Yeah, the other grill surface for it. In recent years, like those pink Himalayan salt blocks, seems like it becomes real sexy to cook on and stuff. Oh yeah, you ever used one? Or do you have any thoughts on a long time ago? And every time I see when I say I need to buy that, and then I'd look at my car and say, oh, I have the handheld car. I don't feel like carrying it you want you mean like people cooking on salt blocks. Yes, like like the size of your laptop and like that thick. Yeah, body mine just mentioned cooking some stuff. I'm one of those. I have one, and I've done like white meat and fish on it and stuff. But I don't know that it's like that much better. I don't know that I would is kind of fun though, Yes, it looks it looks cool. Yeah, for sure, it looks pretty. Don't don't over salt your meat before you put it on there, like the block like sweats kind of with the meat you're cooking and salted, so that's neat. But I don't know that it's like an advantage. So if you had, if you were down onto that, if you're down onto that rubble and you're like and ps that meaning to try, I says, what do you guys think about him and salt Box. I don't think I buy the hype, That's what I would say. I feel like, but what about salt box, Yeah, i'd say I don't. I don't buy the hype quite yet. But maybe there's the right piece of meat or right recipe that it's like this improves the end product. It's been a really long time since I've done it. Um, we did some flat rock hot rock cooking. Oh yeah, yeah, remember that, Joannie? No did you want in New Zealand with us? Now? It's hards hard for me to picture not being with you, honest. I just assume that everything that happened to be honest was there. I watched a buddy mine I was guiding with forget he forgot a firepan, right, which firepan is an apparatus that works real good as a grill for like wild and Scenic river designations. You can't just to have a fire wherever you want to have a fire, so you have to have firepan. While he forgot the firepan, and then I will just sat back and quite honestly did not utter a word as I watched him explain this very intricate story to this family of five on why he was going to grill their steaks on top of our river rocks. Uh, the reality is he just forgot the firepan. But he's like, yes, it was great, it was really great. We one time where um hunting mountain goats in Alaska and you couldn't for a couple of days, you couldn't hunt at all. It's just too foggy. You can't see anything. And we stumbled into abandoned plaster mine um that had been abandoned long ago, and they were doing like suction dredge mining for gold and they left wet suits. They left. It was like they walked away from the place. So their wet suits had been torn apart by bears, like bears like neoprene for some reason. And the wet suits are just everywhere and little pieces, and we're kind of digging through all the debris and rubble. They probably brought it in, I don't know, and snow machines or something. The winter flew it in and then left it land. And uh. We found a twenty pound propane tank with a weed burning torch head, and we lugged that back to our camp. And we were staying in a little a teepy tent that didn't have a floor in it, and we would just set that propane tank up aiming at rocks. So we just turned it on full blast because just sitting out no one can get out of the mountains anyways. We just turned on full blasts and set a rock in front of it until that rock got hot as ship and then carry the rock and set it in the middle of the tent and to keep it like radiate some nice heat for a while. And then by meanwhile, we have another one out there getting ready, yeah, getting ready, and just having like rock eaters, and I haven't had my leather chopper mitten so I could carry the rocks back and forth apri pool very little. My wife saved my tomatoes by doing the hot rock trick this year. No, yes, because I planted tomatoes like mid June, thinking, by golly, that's plenty late enough. And then like five days later we had like four or five inches at the house and she yeah, and she just took like we had some leftover vice queen from the remodel, so she covered the you know, already had the cages up, so she just laid that over the cages and then just through the oven on like four through a couple of giant rocks in there. Then ran the rocks down to the tomatoes, stuck them in there, and it made a little greenhouse and no good tomatoes made it out fine. I don't have any red ones yet, man, but dude, I do not have a read tomato. It's killing me because they're coming in when I'm not going to be here. Okay, here's my dying thing. Um I forgot, I had to. It was a slow It was a slow death. One of them was, um, one of my dying ones. Oh I remember the two? Could I give it to? One is? If you cut dear stay aakes, just take a break for a while. I'm not saying they're bad, but just don't cut deer steaks for a while. Cook hole muscle chunks. Cook one two pound chunks of meat that you that you see, hear all surfaces, and then finish it in your oven, or that you just put in your grill. Give it a good sear, turn the grill down, close the lid, and cook it till it's you know, one thirty with your meat thermometer, and then cut it. Take a break from deer steaks. You that you honest? I like it. As a youngster, we always cut all of our large muscles into steaks. We frols it like that. Everything You never throws a block of like a block of meat. You know, if you freeze the block of meat, when you thaw it out, you can choose to cut its then for a long time instead of writing deer steaks on the packagees me. My brother started writing venison s slash R. People would think it was my initials, but it was steak roast meaning chef's choice, stop cutting steaks and cook some home muscle meat. Then if I still had a little that it was like it was like one of those things where doctors are like, oh, we're losing them. But then like like I came back right and and and then then I flatline again. I'm still kind of hanging in there. Then that would go, uh, never cook a separate meal for your children. Mm hmm. Then I would die. Yeah, that goes beyond wild game, that's just life. If they said, yeah, they're like, okay, but what about any last just general life advice, and I'd say unredated the wild game, and they're like, yeah, just whatever, anything helpful for the universe. I was a don't cook separate meals for your children. Stop stop doing that. Stop making them like noodles. That goes right into just making life easy for your kids. Yeah, stop doing that. Make it easy because there you're exposing them to variety, sure whatever, making them meat, what you're eating, taking them out into a rainstorm, setting up a tent in the rain. Let them be cold a little bit. I might make those guys stop even to having access to the children's menu and restaurants, but that leads to food waste. Oh yeah, because the smaller portions are helpful. I don't think you told us what was killing you? Congenitive heart failure. Yeah, it's flat line D nineteen. It could be coincidence that it's uh after lunch, but I think feel like this podcast has made me hungry. Oh yeah, hell yeah? Uh? And you concluders Daniel, Wild Game, what'sn't your freezer? What do you got going on? I have? I have some good stuff in there. I have some stuff saved for special occasions, and I have some stuff, um that are just a little weird that I have ideas on, like a snake. Do you have snake? I have a couple of snakes. Um. You know when we did the when I was at Rendezvous, I got to be a wild Game judge content the contest they did, you find it was hard to do. It was difficult because everybody wants to serve you like five different things, and I just want to judge you on one thing because I can't remember twenty people cooking five different things. It's like, I like two out of your five and the other three were just average. So now you're just below average. Had you just focused on that one good thing. Let's write a co co email to whoever runs that, because I've been saying it for years since Steve and I did it, that they need to tie eating up the rules a little bit because they're they're the playing fields just rough and rumbling in there, and people are getting screwed out of that deal. We're talking about Bad Country Hunter. When you go to the Bad Country Hunters and Anglers Manual Rendezvous, they have a wild game contest for different people from different state chapters team up a cook wild game dishes, and they bring in a bunch of judges, handful of judges, the pick judges who would have like the right to have an opinion. Yeah, I'd like to think I have the right now you do. But it's hard. It's hard. I find it, like I feel that like I would I would like to tweak out their system for him. Yeah, I kind of wanted to, but I was just happy to be there, so no complaining. Do you you read one of the judges too? Remember the snake. Was that Arizona? I think that was Arizona. Yeah, I thought they served a snake and I thought it was very good they did. It was like a good job texture of a shrimp. It was succulent, but it was like chicken ea flavor. So it gave me a lot of ways to spin off cooking with snake. Were you've been getting the snakes? They had jack rabble rattle snake have Alina and they freed the choia buds to right. They won the last year that I was and they've won this year too. They crushed it. They did. There was the same crew, the two women. It was spearheaded about two women. I think you're thinking Nevada because they did the big horn sheep testicles. Well that was Nevada. I think you might be right. I forgot it was a long time ago. Anyway, that's a that's anti hunting organization. Did you know that? What b h A man? Green decoys? Bro? Are you green decoys up there? Anyway? So, yeah, I've got some snake to mess with, and um, I've got some balls of bore bore balls. Bore balls? Is that what you're saving for the special occasion? That's a special occasion. That's a big ball. So I've got a game show that I'm like, oh shoot, I almost just gave away something I can't tell you. You got people you watch a game show with, and you're gonna sneak them balls. I can figure that out that fast, is correct? Am I wrong? It's caught? Yeah, but dang it, I missed that one. Up, I can't. I won't serve I won't serve balls. So heads up, if you're invited order Danielle's house to watch some kind of game show whatever, you're eating his balls. So before one you, guys, I was gonna do a game show called Name that Game where I serve a series of small plants and you have to figure out what animal it is? Not what animals? Well, I think there's some that's going to be a little clear to know what animal, and it would be harder to distinguish the cut in there. It's just vice versa. I think you just get his points where one knowing you get points for knowing the animal and extra for knowing the cut. Yeahs at two points. Well, I'm not going to do that one now because I just gave it away. That's a big ball. Off some pig. I've seen some doozies. Yeah, how big like golf ball, baseball? You know what I'm gonna talk about that time we castrated that boar. Have you ever had a colotche in Texas? Yeah, that's big, it is. Yeah, like the round Ones's not the hot dog ones. Yeah, it's like the weird rolls that are everywhere. Like a very German thing too. Yeah. On the woods, they're like breakfast. They're like pastries. Maybe I have They're really good. I might eat one without catching what the name of it was, but it doesn't. You have somebody handed you like a breakfast sandwich at some point, kind of an odd breakfast, like a ground all dough and in the middle there's some sort of meat cheese Michigan. They call him, you don't know, not purogis pete Doggins, that's how you say it. Lavian. I have a a substantial amount of carp filets, bone less Asian carp filets, and uh in my vaccine them. Yeah, did you pick the bones? Yeah? There there are no bones in this stuff. Um heads predominantly silversum. Good for you. The my experience with this stuff, though, is it is as flavorless. It is beautiful fish, but it's as flavorless as you can possibly get. Um. So I'm thinking about like doing some like miso stuff or making some buns or you know, marinating it and soy sauce and stuff like that. Up it needs. I didn't realize carp was so bland. Well, common carp is not common carp is like common carp different. Yeah, has a loud common carp wear is a loud hat. But a common carp is also an invertebrate eater um and it isn't as specialized as like the silver carp in the big head carp which are filter feeders. They eat zo plank them from the day they can eat to their last day, which turns out can be like a hundred and seventeen years down the road. So I don't think you properly emphasize that, like how difficult to clean they are a northern pike for example. A lot of people avoid like filet because they have the set of y bones Asian card like big head and silvers have three sets of wire bones. Yes, like you have to be surgical, would you cut strips around all the y bones so the way? Yeah, I mean that's really what what they're doing. One um, the interesting thing and interesting technique is the direction that the bones run. They actually run, they kind of slightly angle from the tail towards the head, and so when you you can do a top filet is what they were calling it, which is basically fileting the meat off the tops of the y bones, which would be like your dead center along the backbone, kind of traditional filet cut. But what they're doing is they go from the tail towards the head and they're not, you know, getting a lot of depth. It's maybe a quarter inch max on like a big carp um. But by going from the tail to the head, your knife is actually pushing the bones down the direction they want to go, and you get a deeper filet and no bones. But if you were to try to go from the head to the tail, then you're you're hitting bones the whole way and you're basically just getting like meat putty off of them. Yeah. Yeah, So you got like your backbone pieces like your loin strips, and they're like carp strip and then you have a center file at which that one I just talked about coming off the tips of the bones, and then there's a belly meat piece that's totally boneless. Um. And then some of these guys I was talking to, like they don't care about the bones at all, and they're just chopping up that whole file at throwing the whole thing in the fryer, and you're like eating around the bones head like that. Yeah. Man, I went to a place where they were trying to use and to make This guy was trying to start out this place and make fish oil out of them and drank some of that oil out of them. He was trying to like incinerate them, you know, and then you get like an oil from the wild. He was trying to find a way that they could sort of get some economic some byproducts off of them, you know, in order to encourage harvest. Yeah, well that's what the status Tennessee Uh, Tennessee Wildlife Resource Agency is actually putting a ten cent per pound um, not a bounty, but basically like a state incentive, which brings the market price of Asian carp up to uh, you know, right in the ballpark of catfish catfish. Yeah, so they're subsidizing the subsidizing the commercial harvest. Yeah, they're even supplying nets two folks that want to get into the catfish gild netting game. The carpet gild netting yep, ver sorry, carte gild netting. Yeah, yeah, it's pretty wild. But the way it was explained to me when I was looking into this about that netting is when they first came in there, they would have like nine inch square gill net in order to let all the game fish through, and you can pretty quickly eliminate like certain size classes of fish out of waters. But as that with them being filter feeders, that the idea that they put forth to me, what we're talking about, like these these invade of carp species in the Mississippi Ohio rivers. What they're saying is that you could eliminate size classes and be pretty strategic or pretty surgical with your mesh size what size carp you're catching. But even if you removed all of the large fish, so let's say even dropped down to a four inch mesh, right, you'll remove all of the carp that are of a certain size, but the river will still support X pounds of carp. It's just achieving its poundages through different sized fish. So by removing all this higher age class size class fish, You're still gonna have the same number of pounds of filter feeding carp. You're just not gonna have any big ones. You just got shiploads of small ones and they're eating the same amount of food. Yeah, does that explained? Because this is an old idea. I don't know if it's still current. I think it is still current. But you know, the way you measure any sort of life in a river is just biomass. And so so if you're a big trout person, you could go to a river that's got six eighty pound trout. Let's say, right, it never happened, But unless you're talking taman or something, anyway, you could have like six eighty pound trout, or you could have you know, eight hundred six pound trout. Being that that's what that's what they're saying. The problem with with gil netting carp is, Yeah, you're not going to reduce the poundage of carp that are in the river eating plankton. You're just gonna change the size structure. And what they need is like other fish in that game's fish category to have like booming population years that could outbalance that biomass equation, which is pretty much isn't gonna happen because the carp is so good at reproducing and you know, a huge carp is going to create a hell of a lot more eggs then a tiny Maybe over the long term you can wind of driving down the biomass. Yeah yeah. And you know the issue with specifically these filter feeding carp is they eat the same thing as they do when they're ninety as they do when they're juvenile fish um, which is zoo plankton and your game fish species. When they're a juvenile fish, that's what they start out eating is zoo plankton. Then they move on too, you know, other foods. But the issue is right, you could have tens of thousands of ninety pound filter feeders that are eating the same thing as you know, you're one inch finger laying bass or pike or whatever, walleye croppy um. So they're going to outcompete those tiny, tiny fish. That's the fear up, well, not even fear. I think it's demonstrated. Now you see a decrease in game fish and sent those areas. Isn't that true? Um? Is that not true yet? Man? According to the data, it's not true yet. UM, like not seeing the repercussions in the game fish. But what they're seeing is that they're seeing a reduction in game fish that anglers are bringing m UM, and a lot of it is just trying to figure out how to fish around the carp. So, like one of the guys that we went out with, he's a big time croppy guy. He was very frustrated with the fishery. Um, there's carp everywhere, um, and you're you know, traditional ways of fishing for the croppie would be to get like right on top of structure and fish down to it. But what he found out that you were doing, because this guy was really into the side scam so in are I could really see what was happening. Is he'd go over the top of structure, there'd be a bunch of carp above the structure, the carpet freak out and bail and then he'd get like maybe a croppy off of the structure. But if you sat thirty yards back and cast to the structure, making longer cast for croppy guy, um, the carp would remain there on top of the structure. His little tiny crop he baited fall through the carp and he'd be able to pick off. You know, half a dozen croppy off of that chunk of structure because they weren't blown out when the cart blew out. Yeah, or feeling the disturbance in the force if you will, Yeah, I'm with you. Interesting suppose you've got any concluders, just like peg bag. Enough of what Danielle and and Cal said, it is just like try stuff for yourself. I can't tell you how many times I was a kid that I had in my head because someone said it that like a running buck tastes bad, or antelope is gross. Um, just stuff like that, and you need to just try it for yourself. Like Danielle cooked a turkey sponge, right, that's really strange, but it was good. I hadn't heard of anybody cooking it before, but knowing what it was made me wonder why do we throw it away? And I I'm willing to eat something that could be horribly, horribly terrible just to know for myself that it's bad instead of just hearsay of it. There's a sponge away, it's worthless. And recently the obvious we we've cooked things as extreme as like crow and badger and it tasted like red meat or tasted like dark meat from a game bird. So you just don't like let those misconceptions kind of muddy your view of a different wild game. Yeah. I mean my whole lot of people are like, oh, you know, panda bear burger isn't great. You know, it really slowed you down, and you like get that in your head. Then later you realize I should have been hunting these things my whole life. You realize you could have got a really pretty jacket and a great burger. Uh, A lot of what we call over here. You can go find out about the meat eat dot com. Tons of information there, food stuff, Danielle's writing, Spencer's writing, all kinds of stuff. We'll touch on greater detail there. Um what else? Plug away, follow me on Instagram, Steven Ronella at Stephen Ronella and then you can look and find stuff and be like the do the do You're real great no protective iywear. Yeah you're explitting when you're bear feed again. All right, thank you

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