00:00:09 Speaker 1: This is me eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You can't predict anything, all right, Dirt myth back from the dead. It's been a while. Explain your I situation. Well, I'll tell a part of it. Yeah, no, no, no, okay, I'll tell the first part, and I'm gonna have parts of all other parts to tell. It used to be that you couldn't really see anything. Yeah, just glass, like you couldn't see critters. Yeah, shitty game eyes. How a fella might reporter. Yeah, you saw things that uh exist, saw things that were not there, and then didn't see things that were there. Then you went in science, you went and and uh explain that got lasic, which was phenomenal recommended to anybody. It was like a rebirth really. Yeah. It was crazy, like you opened your eyes and all of a sudden like, oh ship, there's all the animals. Yeah, and it was quick. It was like it was painless. You know, there is inherent risks in cutting into your eye with a laser, but it was like maybe fifteen minutes procedure and then maybe two hours later like it was it was, it was it was crazy because the glasses I had two hours later, Yeah, I could see, like and it varies the recovery, you know, because they they just assumed was swelling and stuff. But yet on the drive back Andrew, my girlfriend drove me back to Bozeman. By the time we got home, I like couldn't go in the house because everything looks so cool outside. Not seeing critters everywhere, yeah, and realizing the ones you thought were there were they were probably scratches and eye boogers on my glasses or something. And then after then you started wearing glasses when uh, two thousands, like early two thousand's it's not my whole life, but two you saw my setup I had. I had that Jerry rigged crokey. Yeah. Garrett, Garrett's father, Oh, he's gonna love this, invented activewear something called activewear where he takes a piece of lawn trimmor cord, Yeah, like like the the actual cutting cord from a weed whacker and he fixes uh it as a yeah, but it isn't like poky like band aid. Right, It's like a company used to making what's like, what's the other word for it, retainer? Yeah, makes an eyeglass retainer out of weed whacker cord his work. But he's like his are for reading glass, which I need now bad. Yeah, and you so you would like his like I couldn't read. I was trying to read the dosages on fuel stabilizer yesterday and nothing. It's very difficult. I've got that too. Tying on hooks, small hooks, Henderson. You tie a lot of small hooks professionally. Yeah, the last couple of years you've been putting readers on. I've been caved in yet, but I need to, dude. I was in a restaurant there day was I want to get back to you, dirt, cause I want to talk about you poking a hole in your eye of the pine, eating dire damn in a restaurant, and we're gonna come back to your whole little sock. So a friend of mine she had on a pair of cheaters that she just got one point five magnat vacation. I put those suns bitches on and it was like holy, Like this is what menus look like in real life. It makes you realize what happens to you after you turn forty, Like so degrading man. They do say forty to like the lacing and it happens fast. I'm now like I dread, you know, like you wake up the middle night and your kids like sick or something. You're trying to figure out how much like children's like whatever to give him ibi profen. I'm like, this can't be happening to me. Just I've been thinking about getting a magnifying glass just to keep my pocket when I get read. But I'm like, well, that's might be white people wear glasses. Rogan's got cheaters. Yeah, I think everyone. Eventually he carries him around all the time and he needs to read something, he puts him on. I'm like, god, I'm so jealous, man, I gotta get some of those things. Well, you gotta try. I'll get you some of what Dad makes. Well that's what I need. I need the weed whacker cord put on them. Yeah. It's like it's not gonna try to like meet girls anymore. Yeah, I don't care. Yeah Dad, Yeah, it's not like I'm married. I started weed whacker cord around my head with my glasses there to it ship so dirt. There you are. You got glasses when early two thousands, so you've been running around the glasses of ten years, and here's what happened to Dirt. This is this is Yanni's theory. It's accurate. I think it's Yannie. Didn't you come up with this theory about why Dirt pulled the hole in his eye with a pine needle like days after getting laceick? Well it was he had gotten You tell him your theory, Yanny. Why think we should tell the story of how he got poked in the eye at first? But I don't want to Dirt tell his own story. He might leave out my favorite parts. Go ahead, you tell what happened to you. Well, I do gotta say it was luckily it was like two months after surgery, because but I'd like to tell him like I like, yeah, I like to just for dramatic effect, like the mess with the facts when it comes to talk about you and your eyes. Okay, So so you tell the straight dope version. So making two months later, two months later, make an epic TV Steve setting up his tent on the Big Belt mountains in Montana. And usually I can just freely head butt pine trees with eye protection. But in this case, because for ten years you been walking through the woods goggles eye and not having the seeds nonetheless not having to worry about that. And just like actually I was holding a branch down in the branch slipped from my foot as I was lowering, So it was like, yeah, the angle, the dangle was worst case scenario. That's what happened. And I thought it would go away because everyone's scratched their eye, I'm sure, or you know if you're out in the woods often, but this this thing was uniquely just whatever however it happened, it's got worse every day, are you guys? Luckily? Luckily I work with good people, because by the end of the day, you guys are like, you should break it out of here. Scratches don't get like worse the next day. And it wasn't even a scratch. It ended up not being a scratch. It was a puncture, right, what was an abrasion forneal abrasion, But it was during that day like every once in a while it was pain that would almost cause me to like puke. And what was happening is it it got infected and swelled up. This is the next day. Well, I had a hike out. Good to optomers. He said. Every time I blink, because it's so swollen it would retear that flat and that was where it was like, you know, I had to stop a couple of times when we were hiking. But the place I went to had this thing called I can't remember the name pro I want to say pro karra, but it was stem cell from placena that they put on my eye. Doptometris said it was the largest abrasion he'd ever seen and was like where he said, if I would have way it another day, I would have lost vision in that eye. But they put this. He doesn't know that, No, no, no, not complete though like it would Yeah, it would have scarred up to the extent that there would have been a you know, lifetime fog. Yeah. I'm a little sense of this because right now my wife's freaking out that she got a welding helmet from someone kids can wash the clips through a welding helmet. Then she got the reading about how there's like gradations of protection in a welding helmet, like you know, eight up to whatever or blow aid up to whatever you're supposed to have. Anyway, she's worried that didn't have the right glass in it and that she'd like permanently damaged the kid's eyes, and I'm like, yeah, yeah, but I just feel like they're a little more durable. Yeah, for sure, I did. On that note, I was using one of those you know they have the automatic welding masks or as soon as you you know, make connection, it will you know. I've used that stuff, but it's a delay. Well unbeknownst to me. I mean I was younger too. I was like in my early twenties. The battery was dead and it wasn't actually going dark. So welded for you know, like an hour, and if it wasn't, you know, it's tinted, and so I thought it was. I was like, man, this is great. I can see perfect during the welding, but it wasn't actually damming, and that felt that I ended up burning my yeah, my eyes from that, but it heals up. Um I got snow blindness. Yeah, it's like twice once ice fishing on Pendle's Lake in Michigan's Up Peninsula and we all got it. We're all there in the blaze and ass sun before we really kind of got onto sunglasses and um, like the Indian yeah drinking, uh, like it was real cold out and you put Boone's farm out and like everything would freeze, but the syrup would rise up to the surface, or just drinking the liquid, the boozy lior that comes up to the top of the frozen bottle of boons and now and yellow perch and uh we all got and then that night man get back. And also it's like it's like, hey, did you guys rub gravel into my eyeballs? And then um And other time I was with this dude, Rick Weirs, when we were welding up snapping turtle traps. We're just making them out of woven wire. We had this we had this really yeah, we had this like really heavy gauge woven wire and we're we're against the building that had been sided and corrugated. Oh yeah, so sided in court like what you put for corrugated roofing, but it was sided in that so when Rick would strike the arc, I would just turn and look away. But I'm looking at that unpainted corrugated building just getting Yeah. So after we got this trap welled up a couple of hours ago, by and I had to go down in the emergency room hurt. But that's why I would say, your kids, like they would know that's what I was telling my wife. I'm like, he wouldn't have stared at it for eight minutes, But apparently you can. I don't know. I thought if you had, like if you if you um are married or whatever, if you have children with a woman, it's a lot better that the woman worries about the kids than not. Yea. You can't be like critical of someone for worrying about their well being, because there's the there's the opposite, right, Yeah, they doesn't care about the kids well being, which is like very alarming. It's more alarming than when they cared too much. That's good, that's good mother. And so there you are, aunt in the woods, piney, the wafts in the eye, tear's your thing. You walk out, and my favorite part of the story is you had the foresight to practice driving with one eye, knowing that you might have to make a long drive the next day with only one eye. Well, the whole hike out, I couldn't I could not see ship man. That's that's something you've learned. To appreciate it to anyone who's lost or you don't have to cover their eye for the next period's depth perception is critical for the world being. Yeah, it was a decent high too. It's probably four miles. It was like, you know, in a day kind of I'm not just stumbling over stuff. Yeah. Death death perception is a critical for driving to Yeah, man, all worked out though? Is that curve up ahead or yeah? Slow? My favorite part of the story isn't. Like three days go by, we're texting on Garrett. He's all right, this guy's patch on his eyeball and everything, and he had taken, um, we'd rent it a nice suburban for the trip. We have been left with like the big cargo van. And uh, like three days go by and we're on our way home and uh, it's like, so this is a nice suburban, Like what do you mean you haven't taken it back yet. He's like, I don't know. I kind of like driving it around one. We would mean Andrew would just go take like even and drive just because it was so nice. You know. Days after that happened, I get a picture of my little nephew who had the same similar thing happened where he got a devil's club, for got a devil's club foreign in his eye, and it got worse and worse and worse. And worse, and he wouldn't have to have surgery. Yeah, well they say, like in the pictures in a wheelchair, like I think they had to put him on into work on his eye. They say the organic materials will cause infection faster than like metal shaving or which is surprising to me, like a pine needle or Devil's Devil's club. But the stems. That's what blew me away was when the Dodgers like, we you know, usually you could use this protective lens and it just allows the eye to heel itself. He's like, but now recently they passed the stem cell lens and it's like he said, it would have been like three weeks with the old one. The new one was three days. It took longer because of the you know, just because the damage was so extensive. But they make this this I patch out of placena. Yeah, and it's it's I mean, it just it was awesome. And then he was saying they're doing in knees and stuff. I mean, did you get the one? And about whose placena was what I jokingly was saying, I should track down the placena like film My Journey to Find the Gal who donated and tell her she's safe. Dude, if I ever had like a piece of some other mug put in me like how they do you know, little bits and peace, I would just spend all my time reading about that person and buying out about them going to visit me, and they would haunt me. Man, it doesn't fops up in my mind. But I mean they from what and you guys may know all being uh, you know, parents, and but friends of mine that have been asked if they would donate their placena for such causes. It's like during the chaos of you know, being pregnant stuff, you don't even think about it like this whoever so saying it ended up in my eye. They prayed and didn't think about it. I didn't cross their mind when my when we were having kids. The first time we had a kid, I was talking like like I got a friend Bruce, who well, let me back up. When we were having our first kid, I was gonna eat the placenta. Then I was gonna um drink the milk, my wife's milk, just to be part of the whole. I just was like, how convenient. Why? Well, I don't know why. I just had in my head that I's like I had read that people can eat oh you know a little bit, because like you know, I've pushed the limits of what a person can eat and the next frontier, right the next threshold, they say you already eat folks. So um, it just seemed like a good way to be, like to be like if you're talking to some and oh, yeah, you ever had the monkey? How about squirrel? Like you ever had folks? I have we? I think we we we sent from the second birth. We sent it off. And they want to say they dried it or dehydrated it and then turned it into capsules. Yeah, there's some hood gibber that like some like pseudo science that you like eat the placenta and it makes you like super healthy. Again, Well that was It's the same. So you have been. You've cannibalized if eating the yea dehydrated meat, it's a muscle, right or a thing a body part. You've eating human body parts. That explains got one up on me. You didn't end up so I think you turned down the check out on the breast milk out. Now. I got a friend Bruce who when he goes into the fridge, like for you guys that haven't been through this yet. Like a woman, um, we'll save up. A mother will like she uses more milk than the kidneys can produce. Same same with dairy cows, right, That's why I like when a dairy cow not too quate, not to equate the mother my children do dairy cow. But when a dairy cow drops a calf, the cow can produce vastly more milk than the caffeys. So what they do in the big commercial milk facilities, they just take the calf away and raise the calf on formula and then milk the cow to death because it's producing within a couple of cycles. You know, like I used town us, Like a cow used to be good for like ten lactations. Now with all the things they do a little trickery they have, they can like get all the milk you're ever going to get out of that thing in a couple of lactations. So they take the calf away, feed it on formula, and then milk enough milk out of that cow to feed the whole herd of calves. So ladies will uh do the same, Yeah, Because like if you're gonna go out, for instance, if you're gonna go out. Let's say you have the kid, and then you're gonna go out and drink a couple of glasses of wine. And you don't want to go give the kid milk that you're producing when you drank the wine. You'll just pump a little bit ahead of time, put it in the fridge in little bottles. We have a couple of glasses of wine, come home, pump that milk, dump that milk out, and give the kid the milk in the fridge. Can you take Like with cattle, you can taste. We had a milk cow grown up, and if it got into different plants, you could you know if they were like strong. Well, I don't know if I don't drink enough of it, but yeah, like I know that if a cow gets in the wild onion, you gotta like fill the milk out. But I'm wondering with the with the woman's like, could you taste the difference in the wine milk? I didn't. I just use it for a coffee creamer, But you did that, Bruce Ball. But go in pour a cup of coffee, go over there and just tip a little that milk in there and stir it up. Any sugar sweet. Oh yeah, it tastes like it's just dr condensed milk. Yeah, because I look at it and be like, man, that's some high dollar ship right there. I'm not just gonna dump it down the drain and there ends up being a lot in the freezer at times that's not Yeah, my wife had stacked that stuff away. My wife came to understand hunting better, uh by stacking up milk because she was like, I get it, man, because she's like, you know, she always I like to get all that meat, Like just fill that freezer up with stacks and meat and then be like now we're set right, And she's like and she always ate it, but didn't think about it. And when she started saving those little bags and milk, she's like, I totally get it now, man, I opened a freezer door and you got all the My wife grew to hate that pumping machine though she just would look at it. You just get angry to a sole bizarre man. I don't think it's a real comfortable. No one looks forward to pump. And then you're at work and you gotta go like, you know, you're sitting at your desk, that thing pumping away on there and people like you a lot. Yeah, it's you know, it's a big deal. It's big deal for people. But uh, what happened to one time my wife's friend had a health emergency and had to do a bunch of how to do some narcotics for a health of her and then my wife was able to dig into her stash of milk for that baby. Yeah, so it doesn't matter. Yeah, mother to childhood can be any but your question, I heard some research um her radio program on They're talking about how kids grow up with like basically different palets, you know, and how you could be like or at a year old, yeah, be used to like Indian food, right, because like Indians are used to eating Indian food from whatever. And they were saying that, like, yeah, the kids get a lot of sort of that you get their palette built up by drinking breast milk because mom's eating everything she's always, you know, and that goes in there. Yeah, if you have like a super bland diet is just a bunch of process grains, then uh yeah, so uh did we kind of wrap up the whole thing with your eyes? So now you're back in action. Yeah, feeling good? Spotts got Dirt got one of his like, uh like just a good good on the spot. And it wasn't like we're because oftentimes camera guys do this give me looking way off yonder right, trying to spot the far away mystery animals, and you forget about that. There's all kinds of area right around you, and a camera guy will turn around and see one right close which happened, and you're like, oh, yeah, that's cool. That doesn't really count. Though, Dirt had a game a spot where over there, and I'm like, third bullshit, So I said, did you see it move? Yes? I started getting interested because like when something like when someone like sees like I think I see a deer and then a while they're like, hasn't moved at all? No, it's still possible. But then I started getting more skeptical. They're looking at a rock colored rock or deer, but there's like, no, it moved, and it took us a long time to confirm. But you would game eyed a very difficult spot well too. I would say it was a critical timing, as I remember, and this maybe just to boost my entry. I want to be a hero. It had been a slow couple thirty minutes of no no dear being spotted, and it kind of reinvigorates. Let me say, if you're in a spot where thirty minutes I was seeing a deer is a big deal. You're in a good spot. That's a good problem. It was a good spot his spot. Yeah, the spot on the mountain was good and dirt. Yeah, it was really, you said, all all other species um confusion and lack of spody was forgiven. It was so good that I forgave you all the times you haven't spotted game or out of game that wasn't game, and I forgave you temporarily mixing up one animal from the other. Because the rabbid man eating mink that we had, the rabbi van eat mink that we later encountered, I was quick to correct the bleeding rabbid man eating mink. The local kept describing it as a marmot. I didn't want hanging around my cabin eating salmon carcasses as a as a marmot eating salmon carcasses. But turns out the fellas we were talking to you last night that that yeah, it's been there for years. Okay, So all right. I wanted to get the mooch and co host and shoot a little box with humongous guns. But but we'll touch on the mink. So when we flay salmon, we'll use the like we'll flay a salmon. And then we used the trim uh for chum for halibit. Let you just take like the bone, you know, the spine, use it for chum for halibit, or take the head and use it for shrimp bait whatever, so we don't immediately discard it like clean fish and set him out when there's bears hanging around. We're pretty careful about it. We hang the chum up. But there had you know whatever, just left the bait bucket, the chum bucket sitting out, and I noticed to sell him a gnawing on the on the bones, which is fine. And it turns out this little mink uh has been coming in there and it's got at the up top of the base of its tail has a very size bigger than a quarter. Yeah A, I would go so far as to call a festering wound festering wound. And this mink has absolutely no I should say absolutely virtually no fear of humans. Yeah, foot away to the point where it even gets like a little kind of aggro on you, a little bit aggressive on stand in its ground, Yeah, and curious about you, possibly rabid. We were thinking something wrong with sure, and I got to wear old. I think it looks like even besides it's injury, it looks like ship. Usually when you see minks, they have like they almost like flow asleep the landscape. You know, there's a sleek like movement to him, and this soccer has more of like a hobbling like he's got like a hitch in his giddy up. Yeah, like an old like some imagine something really old lady with a really old poodle. If you watch that poodle walk around scruffy in southeast Alaska. So the mink I got to wear. I started toying with the idea of killing it with a rock, only cause I had in my head that there's something wrong with it. It's sick and it's like suffering, and it's potentially like a hazard to be around when you're sleeping and things around with. You know, he just is weird. Yanni told me that would be playing god. Then I said, you know what, I'm gonna shoot it with a shotgun. Then I didn't uh do that. He kind of vanished then I thought. Then me and Broder like, oh, he crawled off and died. Yeah. Then we get talking to some boys down the beach and they're telling us that that meant it's just been hanging around for years with a fastering wound on the base of its tail. Yeah, they named it what was his name, I can't remember. Faster And you said that was a female mint because it was a lighter color. Yeah, then we saw it fail safe. But like like when I used to trapped mink, a male mink, you know, would be twice as worth, twice as much as a female, much longer than the female. So like a male mank might be twenty four inches nose to base, the tail mank could be you know, fourteen or whatever. Females, they're they're generally lighter color. They generally seem to have like they're they're like, I could be a mistake about this, but I think I remember this that the tail the body ratio was less tailed for body like than a male. Then we later saw a couple of males fighting. Yeah, just big yeah, big, yeah, they have a crazy screen. Yeah, that sound was I would have never thought that that was two minks you knew? Yeah, well, I've just seen him and heard him before. And do you remember, do you remember were you there at Doug Durn's out and uh, there was a mink raid in a squirrel nest and I could hear him way up a tree and I couldn't figure out what's going on. And I realized that there's a mink up in a tree fighting with a squirrel because he's trying to raid the squirrel nest to get the babies out, but the squirrel was fighting them, and that mankles up there doing that crazy fighting sound too. My money would be on the mink their weasel family, right, Oh yeah, you don't mess with them. Yeah, yeah, no one wants the mess of the mink. Man. Um. So, while you're here, diret Uh, what what was your impression of Mooch and co host man man you found your calling? Yeah, I'll dream of the Mooch madness about seventeen for years to come. I mean that it was fun. Explain it well, explain why you're having such a hard time with it, and then you got so good at that. The initial hit just causes like I feel like the reaction is to set it like your fly fishing or you know, real fishing, just the excitement and then you get limped back up. As Steve says, yea, the just set it like you're doing what Yeah, just like to really, I mean it's it's such an aggressive hit when you're you're like slowly digging thirty ft. Yeah, let me let me break it down from it. Just catch people up. So, um, you guys, button if I miss out any things that you think are helpful to people to understand. So in the area of southeast Alaska where where we we have a fish and check, Um, well, if you're going there in the winter, there's not gonna be a lot of co holes around. There's some resident kings that you might catch there, but it won't be many co holes around. The coals are coming in to the inner waters congregating up and they're getting ready to go up rivers and spawn and they start showing up. But you're like out in the you know, you're out in the legit ocean. Um. But it's fish that are preparing to do their spawn run. And then I believe other co hoes are mixed in that are not going to do a run that year. But the big schools come in and in this area they tend to congregate around rocky points, like big cliffy points. Either because I'm sure someone knows the answer to this, either because they're pushing bait, they're pushing harring and schooling haring, and it winds up being that they're schooling harring up against the cliff walls or the herring like those places, like the harringer in those points, and the coals just come and find them there. I'm not sure which of those is true. But when you pass over, so so you're fishing were you can take a slingshot and hit the cliff with a rock. But it's deep too, right, but it's still hundred two ft deep. Uh, And you'll pass over with a fish finder. You don't need to use a fish finder necessarily, but it's really helpful. You'll pass over the fish find you'll find the big bait balls. You'll either see big bait balls like just look like giant wads of something and they're thick enough that they're dent. So the sow inari show like red, red and yellow balls of something not on you know, hovering in the midwater column annual mark slashes like individual slashed fish, and the co host tend to eat. If you're in three ft of water, they're up, they tend to be around. So you've got three water column and you'll see forty five ft down you'll see slashes or balls, big balls of bait. And a big ball of bait on your sounar might look like it starts at thirty ft down and extends down to seventy so like you know, sizeable chunks. When you see that, you just say, like you'll shout out a depth and then a mooch. And rig is like big long noodle rods nine ft nine and a half ft rods with a level wine reel, and I like to use a line counter, a real the line counter on it. And you've got your main line running out and you got like a little flash it looks like a crushed beer can, and then eighteen inches of wine or whatever. Then you put a four ounce banana weight. Then you gotta you know, three ft of leader coming off that and a little two hook harness rig that you hook a piece of cut herring on. And when you see that baitball, you just shout out. Everybody dropped down on the forty ft and if all goals, Well, that's what I said. That was cold. I really like that part. It's like we're kind of, you know, motoring around and you're eyeing the the stone are and then when you say like fish at thirty, it was just like a sweet game on It's fun. Yeah, and uh, dirt would get a hit and you would just try to bitch slap and like you said, I think what it was that And then also like when you bitch slap it like that, when you said it like that, you're also gonna let the slack out and they just well, no, because there's two things you're doing. I was doing something, you're limping you Here's that. This is the most common problem I've found with people who come out and haven't grown up or have it who aren't accustomed to saltwater deep saltwater fishing, Yes significant is they and even jigging deep water like jay halibut three of water. People have a tendency to do a very like rambunctious hook set without reeling. So they're doing a big hook set. So imagine that you're imagine the hands of a clock and the water is like the three and nine position. Okay, so the you got a horizontal plane and your rod's out horizontal above the horizontal plane of the water. Their hooks at takes them all the way up to twelve of a clock. Then for whatever reason, they lower the rod very quickly back down to the horizontal plane, not feeling anything. Yeah, and not really so they're like setting the hook. They're saying to the fish, got you the un they're standing just kidding. Because they lower the rod back down in on a nine ft rod, you're all of a sudden like providing the fish with tons of slack. And we think about the mechanics of a hook, the hook this falls back out of its mouth. Yeah, people just like yeah, limp nicking. It's it's just I don't get it. But real, when you're setting reel, I once after three I think three misses, then you got deadly because you realize that you can't just go on gonna lift the rod, tep it up the air and they're gonna drop it back down to the water and let you go. There's a reaction just because of that hit. But if you can keep your calm, just real bringing it a nice How big were those I think too though on that since we're talking about those hook set now, because there is no virtually no slack if you're fishing it right and when the fish takes it, if yeah, if you over hooks that, you know, like with a big giant motion, you could be pulling it right out of his mouth or right through his mouth, literally ripping off chunks of his pop. Yeah you know. Um, I've been thinking a lot about that, and I wonder if it has something to do with like the amount of slack that you're fishing with, because like fly fishing, right, you always like you rarely ever tight line while your fly fish, unless you're doing some sort of like check nimping thing right roady where you'd have actually like, yeah, you have an actual feel to the to the fly. Normally they're slacks, so when the fish takes it, you have to make an exaggerated motion to take all that slack out as fast as you can. But that's not actually setting the hook. You're just removing the slack so that then the rod can but barely bend and and reeling down on the fish. Yeah, because I think they're eating that harring and turning with it. And if you really you're gonna hook him. But if you come up and then drop your rod tip, nothing's going to happen. But yeah, a lot of times they're swimming, they're eating it and swimming towards you at the same time. That's what I was gonna say. He's coming up and grabbing it. And I think that when people are like, well, I'm getting it, it's like you don't get a hit. You don't like coh doesn't come up and nibble on a hair. They're swallowing it. He's taking it. He's not gonna I'm gonna He's not like being like a catfish who's just down there like leisurely messing around with your bait to see if it's something he wants to consume. That thing is coming up and grabbing it. When you get like a hit, what you think is a hit is the fish taking it. But he's a lot of times rocketing up. Because sometimes you'll hook a cold you'll think he had a hit, and the next thing you know, some bitches up in the air out of the water because he comes up and hits it, comes up and jumps and all of a sudden, you like feel like you had a hit. But then there's a fish flying through the air. Yeah, I hooked one that I hooked it on my side of the boat and it ended up jumping behind us on the other side of the in which case he's he or she are is creating slack. That's why the astute angler doesn't say, oh, I'm getting hit and sit there, and he doesn't overdo it and do some massive, rambunctious hooks at he feels the take and reels down the fish. No, setting a hook like setting a hook is an end result right, Setting a hook means you're punching that hook. My understanding of it is the same way when you got that hook in your hand right, it never set, meaning it never got the barbon there. So if I had, at that moment when you were tangled up in your own hook on a fish in the net, had I grabbed that line and did a hook set, right, you'd still have that hook in your hand, or you'd be going to a place, a professional facility to get it removed. So a hook set is an end is a is a is a thing that happens from something you did. When when you reel down, I feel like you are putting that hook home. Barbs keeping everything. You're not you're not setting it with the lifting, are setting the hook? You're just not setting the hook by doing some crazy thing. Yeah, you're reeling down on that fish. But I think nine out of ten, just you know, average level fishermen or just people in America, if you said set the hook, what does that mean or whatever, they would give you some you know, exaggerated motion of lifting the rod tip. You know. Yeah, that's what I want to see my clients do. Like they need to look like the Statue of Liberty. That's oh I don't need. It's a fly reel like you could reel for ten minutes. Don't real at all. It's all stripping, right because there's so it's such a narrow arbor on that thing, like it takes ten seconds to reel in five ft a line. Yeah, so like limp dick. And when you're a guiding fisherman, well, I don't want to see him come up and then back down again. You don't say no, because that's the same thing you were talking about, Like it's up and stay up, you know, keep it talk. Yeah. I was always told to put the butt towards the fish fly fishing once you got one on that makes sense? Is that something that's a good I never heard it, but it makes sense. Yeah, just to keep keep from limp dicken. So you want him getting the hang of it. Oh man, dude, it's so. It's the most thing on the planet. I would rather, uh. Another way to catch silver's wait till they go up in the river. I mean it's the hunter ways to catch them. But a couple of ways that we catch them. It's wait till they go up in the river miles and then just huck spinners at them or throw flies at them. Well, these were even like mooch is so much fun. And then a couple of those times they would like I don't know if they pop off the set the hooks or whatever, but they'd be chasing the herring up to the boat as he reeled up. I never expected to be visual like we're seeing those things next year. Nice bag of limit to your lout six a day? How big? What would you say the average size of those were. I mean, there's like giants out there and all that, but what we were trying, I would say, and we don't throw every fish on and we don't throw a really main fish on a scale at all, but just eyeball on them and having weighed a lot of fish, we definitely I don't think we caught it twelve pounds still over and the nose in our area and our fish and like a twelve pounds silver be like a nice fish. We got a lot of like six to ten pounds. Yeah, beautiful, strong, crazy and they go crazy. Yeah, antasca, we did uh raw eight one raw after freezing it get rid of parasites. Yeah, yeah, that's we used to eat. Like when we used to catch a king. We just eat the thing, not even freezing it. But there is some and I think it was like people being hysterical saying that it's a bad idea to do it, but it's advised that you freeze it and then promp thaw it out and then cut it for then cut it for saus I had always heard do that with fresh water fish, but not that you didn't need to free saltwater fish. Yeah, with salmon, I think it's like best it's best practices, and I think it's it's it's my again understanding, someone writing and contradict um best practices to take that salmon, and I think that my understanding too. Is this what they do in sushi restaurants is they're freezing it and then serving. Would salmon be good as savich? I've had like stuff, but yeah, really good. Yeah, it's really good. Honest. Sushi was good. Yeah, we did good job. Slice in it just right. Yeah, but did have like texture like mushy? No, no, the opposite. Instead of being that like creaminess that you expect from a good fish. It had almost a little bit more audente than I was expecting. I wonder if that co ho is not the most popular, like the most popular sushi grade salmon, maybe kings Oh really, and now you can't catch him. I wonder if it was right now in this area like where the because it wasn't ballet part of the flat near the tail like I wonder if it would have been yeah, off the shoulders. Well, I advised him against that record is saying why are you doing the tail? Well, yeah, test run. It is because of the test run. So now we know we're gonna go home and pick out the biggest, fattest, thickest slab and try it again. Another kind of fisher we're doing is we're doing deep water jigging and uh, dirt pulled up a world record silver gray rockfish five ft. Well that country, he said, is off, but probably three feet right, yeah, over three big silver gray those so coals are allowed six a day, you're allowed, uh, rockfish a day as a nonresident, right? Is that the same for residents, same for residents. So when we bought our place many many years ago, you were allowed. I think at that time I could be wrong, but I think at that time you were allowed. A non resident was laud one or two yellow eyes a day. Then it went into an annual limit. Last year you were allowed to yellow eyes a day, two yellow eyes per year. This year one yellow eye per year. And on the west side of the island, no yellow eye retention this year for non residence or anyone. And they closed the winter King salmon and winter king got down shut down, but they closed the winter King salmon. Not to do with fish up here, but they're because they're having such poor returns and some rivers south of here and you can't and like counts are so down in some of the rivers south of here more in the like we're in southeast Alaska, but like northwest Yeah, uh, some of the returns are so low that they didn't emergency shut down of kings here and hopes that there's like and hopes that that some of those fish are up here. Did they shut anything down around you in Seattle at all? You know, I don't know, because I don't know as far as like wild kings. I don't know what's going on down there right now. I'm just surprised like non commercial sport fishing would have an impact on something like that. One could argue that it doesn't. Yeah, I mean I could see like you know, guided services or commercial Yeah, that that that'll get closed too. But they you know what a couple of weeks ago, well a few I guess a month or so ago, Now there was a king, a commercial king's season going on out here. So you got a commercial kings season going on. And then literally like it's you know, I mean, there's so many like there's so many conflicting interests and in the way like in Alaska they tear out importance level of fisheries, okay, and and and it's all very reasonable, but importance level be like subsistence fisheries get are like top tier importance okay, So people that rely on the fishery for like their own consumptive use. So that's like a primary food primary food source, and there's like cultural heritage there. Okay, like that user group is going to get top preference and commercial interests are going to get preference over recreational because of the livelihood. Yeah, and it's and it's like and then you get into this numbers game of what's more valuable to the state. What's more valuable to the state would be like what is the commercial harvest and the jobs generated from fish processing and and all the economic activity that goes along with commercial fishery. Is that more important or a more vital revenue stream for the state than old economic activity generated around recreational fishing. But it's kind of funny. It's like from the from the perspective of a personal use fisherman, it's really fun to be out Like we'll be out fishing and you're under a bag limit, like let's say you're a loud like like whatever, like six silver's a day or a king a day in a slot limit and you're fishing within stones throw of a person er. Yeah. Yeah, it's just like it winds up feeling kind of like like off kilter. But those guys have a quota that they're under. There's that. Or it would be that you're out fishing halibut rod and reel and you're allowed to halibate okay, a day. It's a very generous bag. That's a lot of halibut, right, you know, to halib it a day. But next to you is a hellibot longliner who's running miles of hooks. It just winds up, you know, me, It's like there's like a and it all makes sense, but it's like it's like out in the salt water when you're fishing amid commercial extraction. It does wind up seeing like like kind of art drop in the bucket. It seems like kind of arbitrary. This this this may be a reach. You guys may give me help for this, but probably if you're gonna because like a lot of things you say, you don't even know. Right, the fact that you're anticipating blowback makes me nervous because this could be good as a you know, living in Montana fishing fishing up here on the Pacific and it's like this massive body of water and it's like when when the when we're mooching and it's going off. It feels like there's like a limitless supply of these fish, and it kind of I was just like thinking it could equate to what the early settlers thought of as the buffalo being a vast A good point. Yes, So that's how it kind of works in an inability two comprehend the finiteness of a resource just because you're so overwhelmed with how much there is in your little world. So my body, speaking of the yellow eye thing, the yellow eye restrictions my body, who is a biologist, uh was saying to me the other day. And this is like a good dude, very concerned about resources, practices a lot of personal restraint, cares deeply, the kind of guy that if to save if someone said to him, if someone said to him, we can save the fishery, but that would mean you can never fish again the rest of your life, he would be like, Okay, if that's the way it has to be, fine. It means that much to me to have it out there, knowing it's there, means more to me than contributing to his demise. Yeah, okay, So that kind of fell. He was saying to me. He's like, I just don't buy it. I don't buy the yellow I thing because when I dropped down and I catch one, Yeah, but like yeah, but that's like so anecdotal, dude, you might be you know, how do you It's like he also said they don't really know a lot about them, like as far as the numbers and stuff, but they know those sons of bitches when you catch a big one, those sons of bitches are eighty ninety years old. Yeah. The guy at the lodge caught a thirty pounder that they aged at I forgetting how it was around a hundred years old and they did a test on its earbone. Dude, any any yellow ey you catch is old enough to vote right, and most of them are gonna be old enough to get draw Social Security. Is there much of a commercial fishery for those? But then't even as limited? So like I've got friends that used to do commercial that commercial longline for Haliban. And you're trying to get out and set up on big flat areas, okay, but now and then you screw up and you set you close to a rock bluff for cliff face and just be like bunch of yellow eyes come up and you just gotta float all those fish come the commercial guys because you're limited to your percentage of like your bycatch. Like for instance, when when when you used to be able to, like in US waters, you used to be able to fin for sharks. Okay, so you could be a swordfish longliner and be running big plagic longlines and catch sharks and then just take the thing of instead of like filling your hold up with shark flesh, it isn't valuable. You could just fin the sharks and keep the fins for the market. The Asian markets just keep fins and be like, I'm not gonna like use valuable holds base and valuable ice to chill shark meat that isn't worth as much as swordfish meat. So what they could do is just cut fins. Would be like legally just taking a backstrap off of a deer. Yeah, like I only got I got a little small freezer and it's gonna fill a backstrap, So I go shoot twenty deer and have just backstrapping there. But then what they want up doing in the US waters, they came in and said, like of your hall of sharks, fins can only be a certain percentage of your total hall of shark that you're bringing in and they've made it that you basically can't I can't mamber what it was. It's some number like it wasn't like let's say it was. They made it not uncost effective to do that in order to try to slow down the harvest on sharks. So with the bycatch thing, with all commercial fishing, it's like they will be not all you can never say, oh like, it's so like the regulatory structures are just like my mind bogglingly complex and there's no generalizations, but it will be percentages of take or whatever allowed and bycatch if you screw up or just whatever, Like my nature conspires against you and you pull up your thing and you got like no halibit, but shiploads yellow eyes. You can't just be like sweet. But you'll still walk into like Anthony's, which is a popular seafood chain in the Pacific Northwest. You'll still walk into Anthony's and see rock fish on the menu. It's like you're looking at you're looking at you know, bycatch fishery. At least some of us getting used. Yeah, but the minute, but it's so here's why. So people like that's ridiculous, it shouldn't be that way. What's the what's the alternative? Okay? All bycatches, Okay, because some dudy's like, oh you mean yellow eyes bringing whatever a pound, I'm gonna accidentally set up against this cliff and make a bunch of money. Well, the same argument is made against keeping road kill. I mean I've heard people make that same argument. I think that's still the argument. But go ahead and explain it. Yeah, where it's like, well, now it's legal as of a couple of years. You smoke a deer on accident, you can you know, call it in in your state. Is now legal. And for a while it wasn't legal because people worried that you know, guys would get big cow push your bumpers and just go out and target road which seems a kind of like oh no, yeah, but it's like killing yourself. Yeah. But even then, so in that state you got, like when I was growing up with road kill, like in Michigan, you could retain road kill, but you had to secure permit, and they were very liberal with the permits. I remember picking up deer with my dad when I was a kid, and my dad would call he just dialed nine on one or call the sheriff's office whatever, and they would even be like, I'll bring you out a permit tomorrow or got it, We got your information, don't sweat it. Take the deer. But thinking in like a state, like in some of the western states where you have seven eight nine species of big game, some of them being very valuable, right, like a looser, Yeah, like big horn, like a big horn ram If you have a big horn ram head, you know it's worth thousands of dollars. So even with the road kill thing, the rocal thing only applies to certain creatures, so so that people won't target. Yeah, Like you still can't pick up a road kill big horn. And I think in a lot of states, even with a white tailor or a mule deer buck, you can't retain the horns if you're taking I think that it's that way in Colorado. You can take a road kill buck, but you can't take the antlers. Can't retain the ant And I've tried twice. I think why there's a hole in the in that theory that people a just gonna walk around, you know, smoking running over deer. Is that twice? With my buddy Jim Miller, he got to I think one was a cow. I can't remember what the other one was, but rolled in there. I think even like d O Tea maybe showed up with like like a tractor or something to help load it into the back of his car. Like I met him after work and we started skinning that thing. You know, he'd been gutted and had been hanging and we started skinning it, and like we ended up there was no meat. It was good for human consumption. It was all just purple and beat up bruise and it we turned it all into dog food. It was not an efficient way to get meat. When you figure auto damage now, I one time killed one with the side view mirror. Oh nice clean head shot. Headshot the side of view mirror. It was one of those side of view mirrors out of truck that folds in anyway, the old metal ones that had like the tubes tube structure leading on to it. That thing coming and hit the window so hard, scared the ship out of me. But yeah, just like done. Yeah, you know, no meat damage. So you were saying with the back to the fisheries stuff, if you if it was a bycatch, you would try to get it. There was some way that you can try to get back down to the depth because they'll die yellow Yeah, back to yellow eyes. And this is like, this is kind of interesting to tell you, like the intricacies of of fisheries management stuff. So like take the case of the yellow eye. Now, rock fish a lot of your and I don't know about more plagic life non plagic rockfish. So rock fisherl just like live in a little spot down on the bottom of the ocean, and the rocks are in the kelp and they don't drift around and move around. I don't want to explain plagic versus non plagic is a word for like open ocean and they move a lot. Yeah, So you have like you have a reef for instance, with sharks, you got reef sharks that are residents around. Then you got like a shark like a mako, which is regarded as a polagic shark, so he drifts around on the open seas, up in the water column, not affiliated with the bottom of the ocean, like, not like a benthic shark who lays down on the bottom. He just out cruised around. Other polagic fish should be you're tunas, like yeah, bill fish, tunas, plagic fish cruise around on the open ocean um. So there are some species of rock fish to regard it as plagic rock fish, so they're not. They don't have like a lot of fidelity to their little home spot on the bottom of the ocean. Yellow eyes are nonplagic. Just like he's got like a spot where he's got, Like Jenny doesn't move far, has like a place where he lives down the bottom of the ocean. He doesn't move around in the water column a lot. And for whoever, I guess lack of adaptation wherever, Like he doesn't have the ability to adjust his swim bladder quickly to account for lateral movements in the water or column or no, like an account for like a horizontal movement in the water column. Pressure changes the same way that humans can't, the same way that humans suck at it, Like he came down feet down and then do a rapid ascent to the surface and make the necessary press the necessary adjustments in the pressure. Yeah, I read somewhere when we were getting ready or I don't know, maybe, oh it isn't that article It was in like an Anchorage newspaper and talking about this whole yellow eye rock fitch management thing and the guy uh equated it to um. Basically, you combing up in the in the water column, you would basically vomit your lungs. It's nice, yeah, very nice, Uh, but a hell of it can't c Yeah you crank, see, but halib it move around all the time. They're up there. You know, people don't think about it, but how but like, yeah, they're down, but they're up to caught a hell. We caught a hell, but it had a diving duck in its Yeah, so they move around and you know, come up and go down there they convent right. But when you crank a yellow eye and many other species, well we're just talking about yellow eyes here. When you crank a yellow why up from three of water four ft of water, the gases in his blood and the gases and his body expand rapidly. So when you pull him up, his stomach, his swim bladder, which is the thing they used for buoyancy, his swim bladder, the gases there expand, and his swim bladder will have expanded so much that shoves his stomach out of his mouth. So what you're looking at when he comes up is you're not looking at his swim body. You're looking at his stomach. Yeah, it looks like a hot dog sticking out, and his eyes are and the gases behind his eyes, so his eyes are bugged out. And when you're fighting a yellow eye, he's fighting, fighting, fighting, But then you get him a hundred feet off the bottom of your eyes, he's not fighting anymore. And when they come up, they just float like you don't need to gaff them. And you gaff them because they're very heavily armed, and you can you know, get bad infections from all the fins and spikes on him and stuff. But you don't need a gaff from to get in the boat. In fact, one time my brother was jigging and someone had on a fish in deep water and the fish came off halfway up. They lose the fish, so like, oh, you know, fish got off, come unbuttoned, and a while later he realizes upcoms up floats the yellow eye. Yeah, I just kept it got off, but it was too late and it floated to the surface. So if you by catch that what guys used, Yes, let me let me explain. Let me let me because it's like a lot of steps to this a thing that people used to do is take a needle, and you could take a needle and vent the swim bladder, and people used to use that as a way to release rock fishes. You'd vent the swim bladder and turn the fish loose. But because it's there's confusion because the stomach is sticking out of his mouth, people were puncturing the fish's stomachs thinking they were venting the swim bladder. And then I think that's almost like like virtually guaranteed death to the fish. Then someone comes up with the idea of a deep water release mechanism, which imagine that you take a imagine to take a lead headed jig. Let's just say just for to visualize this, you take a lead headed jig, file away or pinch off the barb, and tie a line to the bend in the hook. Okay, so tie a line, tie your line mid gate, right in the bend of the hook, and you just pricked the hook into the fish's mouth. And you gotta let a jig tied to your rod, but instead of tying it to the eye of the jig, you're tying to the bend a hook. Prick the fish in his mouth and drop the jig in the water and let that lead headed jig carry that fish all the way. Soon as you catch, send it right back down on a quick release mechanism. Let that leadheaded jig carry all the way down to the bottom of the ocean and then jerk the rod, do a dirt myth hooks at pull the hook back out of the fish. That is like a nineties percent recovery rate. That's crazy. And how do they even know because it's like once they're down there, they put a marker on, put a put a transmitter on it, and see if he keeps moving around so he'll readjust to that pressure and send him back down the same way when a diver has the bends, they put him in a compression just but visually looking at like a yellow while you pull up. It's like hard di visuals heart. Yeah, he'd go back to his little home. This is where it gets interesting with with like I said, like drawing up fishing regulations. So you got this thing where you have like high mortality of a fish and catch release isn't really an option. And that's where you getting the honor system. Because when you're fit, when you're intentionally fishing rockfish. You are not allowed to size grade your rock fish. If you're intentionally fishing rock fish and you're thinking you're gonna catch a fifteen pound yellow eye and you drop that jig down and pull up a nine inch quillback rock fish, you've hit your daily bang a limit and you have to stop fishing rock fish. You cannot be like ship, It's not not what I was after. It's like that fish goes in your box and you're done intentionally fishing rockfish. So it makes you if you're trying to catch a yellow eye, it makes you fish way deep where you know there's noe risk that you're gonna have some little dank or quill latch onto your jig, and then you're shut down because you're only allowed one rock fish a day. So then people are like, well, who would know, because like if you go catch, like if you're out fishing and you're intentionally catch yellow eye and you throw them in your boat, and then later you're doing whatever fish and halibit perfect legally targeting halibit and you pull up a yellow eye, Yeah, then you need to send them back down on a deep release mechanism when they have them like charter vessels have to have a deep release mechanism. They haven't made it yet that recreational anglers need to have a deep release mechanism on board. It's probably coming, but you can make one from scratch and seconds. All the time we've spent out there, that we rarely would have needed one, because it seems like once we limit, man, we just get off that kind of fishing and you're going to do something else. It can't happen. I mean, you know, you catch. I've seen a lot of a lot of rocks caught, but I never would go out and like jig rocks and then go set up for halibit. I'm to go out and set up for halibit, and then if we catch the limited halbit or it's not happening or you get blown off the water, then be like, well, before we go in, let's go jig up a quill back. That's cool. You got those very ages, jig up silver gray or whatever you know, and catch them on the way in. But yeah, I'm pretty careful to not be in a situation from out there having to like trying to like resuscitate and release. But your fisheries bilogist buddy Dan thinks that the one to day thing is over the top, too restrictive. Yeah that's what he well, yeah he thinks that because he's like that just seems to be in his mind. Thousands a lot of yellow eyes, and it just depends. It depends on the day because it's like we didn't Some days you go and it's just game on. Yeah, we couldn't find them during Sometimes you go look for you can't find it. But we couldn't find any fish that day. It was the solar eclipse. Super tied. I got that big quill back, silver quel back, the clips yea, cool backs are abundant. Yeah, you know, and we all did. We all got let's just say a bund them. But they're not hurting like yellow eyes. The reason yellow eyes are hurting is there's such like they're so old and loaf of coundity. Yeah, you can't they're they're so like it's such a slow metabolism fish. You can't bleed them when you cut their gills. Their heart isn't pounding enough to push their own damn blood out. You cut the yellow eyes gills and nothing comes out of that thing. Just chilling. Yeah, but you do want to bleed salmon. Yes, commercial guys bleed them. We were bleeding them. Yeah. And when you don't bled them, you can you can tell when you go to flame all that blood stacked up in the tail. Yeah, I believe I like to bleed them. And you think ripping their gills is plenty. You don't need to like cut the throat there. Yeah, I mean I think it's just tearing to gill. Is tearing to gil. But it's like I don't put my thumbin air and ripped. It's like a brasive I cut him. Yeah, but there's like a handful of fish that there's a handful of fish. I think it's like generally accepted it's a good idea to bleed him, And there's something that just I don't think it's really necessary. I like I never grew up, like we don't bleed walwyes, right, like the white flesh fish. It doesn't seem like you needed h yeah, part of the thinking and bleed him. But yeah, it's like I don't know, maybe like a lot of it just maybe a lot of it's nonsensical. It's just like practices that you've developed that aren't like based on fact but like, you know, I never like bleed yellow perch, but I don't clean yellow perch and realize that the flesh is real bloody. Right. What were you guys talking about electrocuting fresh catching? E K G Man? Yeah, it makes what what do you laugh about the dirt thinks it's electrocuting. Yeah, I don't know that. It didn't actually think that it's electrocuting him, But he heard E K G. Main And now that it's coming back around, he's like, so you guys were talking about I think I know what's tripping dirt up. First. What's tripping dirt up? Is this? So he can explain the knie. Have you ever witnessed it? I haven't, but I've looked at it, look at a couple of you know, online blogs and processed photos as we like to calm, but series of photos that show how it's done. But for the most part, I think they they still do bled the fish when I've witnessed it by people who are believers, they bled the fish before or after as soon as they catch it. Yeah, and then then UK electric cut the tail. I don't think they cut it all the way, but I guess I believe it. It's connected by a flap of skin. Yeah, but I don't know really what that would Maybe it gives you something to hold on to create an insertion point, like why not just cut it off? It gives you a handle. It gives you a handle. But then they basically take a stiff wire that you could look like stainless safety wire. Yeah, but it's it's stiff like it's got some backbone too, because you're basically gonna ram it and run it up the fish's spinal column. Is it single strand wire? Like single strand? Like for instance, I could picture on a salmon you could eat, you would e k G man with a coat hangar, right coat hanger, straighten out coat hanger. That's a that's it would be a good diameter for salmon. But I don't know if the e k G may salmon. I saw them like Helen showing her boyfriend. We're e k G man. I don't know if you can use that as a verb. They were e k G man. Uh black sea bass. I think fluke, which is a flat fish. Yeah, but because basically the lailoff, so now you're like looking up through the fish, you know, like from his tail up through towards his head, and so that cut now gives you a portal into his spine. You just run that wire up his spine all the way to its brain, basically through the spinal cord. Dude, it destroys that fish. Looks like they're getting electrocute. They just melt. There's no rigor you like throw a fish in like this is my my, my, my saltwater. When my saltwater mentors Ryan Layton, like when you had a sam you caught a salmon, gutted it, gilded right, and then put him on ice. He'd curl and rigged rigger. He was like, don't take that fish and flatten that thing back out because you're tearing myself. Wait until it relaxes. Then, laid fish don't like when it curls up and rigger, don't go and bend it back because you're just ripping up the muscle. Yeah, there's still a lot to be learned in general about meatcare. That's why when Ryan Layton goes to the goes the Pike's Place market and see them throwing fish around, it just makes them uncomfortable. Yeah, He's like, that's the what not good handle it just feels like it's like, why would you like do that to the fishes, mishandling and firing it around, catching it. There's an entertain that factor. Yeah, but he just thinks it's like abusive of the of the abusive of the fish, disrespectful to the fish. So now I think I think we talked with the support. I'm gonna tell it again. I was in South America with on a river with amor Indians and they caught a turtle, big turtle they're not supposed to mess with. And uh was this Bolivia or Guyana years ago? Okay, the first trip and they e k G made that turtle with It wasn't willow, but imagine the willow switch debarked and sharpened and the e k G made the turtle rapp his backbone and doing it was amazing because we when we would catch turtles like a snapper, we would chop its head and then you have to hang it up for a few hours before you could clean it. Does it still be? It just suck its arms in and if you pull the arm out and pull it back, you could get like cut and scratch from a dead turtles. Turtle, But they e k G made that turtle, and that turtle was ready to eat no rigor. The reason you're tripping it up with electrocution is they get a similar effect in livestock slaughter facilities by using electricity. So if you've ever gone into watching slaughter cattle and the slaughter facility, they hit it with a captive bolt gun or hit it with the twenties mag right, kill it. It drops to the floor. They put a chain on its rear angle, jack it up into the air, cut its juggler, and then zapp with electricity and effect. Once you useapp with electricity, it's safe to handle. It isn't kick in, it's carcass, isn't twitching, and it's just that carcass just melts. And then everybody can come in and like piranhas with knives and dissemble that thing in the next three or four minutes. Are you ready for a segway, Steve, You got a good one, I think, so hit me. People may start e k G MN deer by trying to shoot him right up the spine from the backside, speaking of which, oh you want me to? So I didn't want to get to this. I'm gonna yeah, that's biggest segment. I like that they're not gonna start doing that. But we did talk to you guy recently who who go who who goes for a similar e k G may effect by hitting his animals at the base of the skull. Yeah. I don't like that at all, But I don't I head shoot. I've we've all made our we've all made our point about not like a head shoot or the problems the negatives out, the cons outweighing the pros on head shoot. But the other day Yanni is talking to We're going up we have some Me and Remy Warren, who's one of my hunting heroes. We drew fog Nack Island Elk Heggs, and we're going up Uh to hunt a fog knack for Roosevelt elk and Um. We got to talk about rifles, caliber selection, and Remy had said something like being incredulous of the thirty oh six for a fog knack Elk because these these bulls are for there, huge funds, like a moose almost big freaking bulls pound bulls. And he's like, oh man, the three wind meg is the way to go minimum. I wouldn't take no thirty ot six for this that's too slow and Remy, I'm sorry, I wish you were here, but I'm just I think I got it right right. Yeah, and Yanni was pulling enough gun. Yeah, and Yanni was pointing out. But the only is what explained you're thinking on this? Well, again, it depends on you know what grain bullet weight and uh, you know how many grains of powder you have behind that bullet. But uh, for this example, you can basically have the exact not basically you would have the you could have the exact same bullet. Let's just say like you're throwing a hundred sixty five, all of those can be shot out of both thirty six three wind mag three hundred short mag Uh you know any of the other three hundred, three hundred weather be This is Yanni Van's walls. This is like Yannie the gun writers. You know, if you let's just say it was the one sixty five because that's what you're shooting out of your three D wind mag um, I'm gonna guess that it's you know, thirty one hundred feet per second out of the mozzle and at the third six pushing that same bullet at to three thousand feet per second, you know, on average, again, depending on if you loaded it hot or depending on you know, the you could buy a factory AMMO that could that could be pushing the same bullet faster or a little bit slower, but somewhere in the realm of fifty feet faster or slower. And so the difference between the odds six and the three inner wind MAAG is probably just a couple hundred feet a second, which someone could probably sit there and lay down some real numbers and start talking about kinetic energy and impact energy all that sort of stuff, and and it might end up being a great, big difference, but you're saying it's probably not significant. I'm a believer that it's more important to have a rifle that you can handle and shoot accurately and not be scared of because it kicks too much. Put that bullet in the right spot. Why do you think people care? Because I want to get to the main point. Why do you think like people make such big differences that are like, oh, thirty six and it can't all be the same thing. Well, it's not, no, I mean, it's they're moving fast. That bullet is moving faster. That is the only difference the bullet is moving faster. There is no difference in the bullet itself. The bullet is simply moving faster. So okay, So if I'm throwing, if I'm throwing a hundred sixty five grain out of my three mag it's going at three thousand and fifty three thousand and fifty ft per second. That's what you just found on the internet. No, I pulled up my my ballistics calculator. H Yeah, and I have chronographed my six that hand load for when I'm shooting a hundred sixty eight grain barns Is and they're shooting, it's shooting those things that um like, okay, not a lot of difference at three hundred yards, and Elk isn't gonna know the difference. Yeah, so this is like a prelude. So I got like a number of haunts. I'm anticipating this fall, and I have like a whole fleet of firearms, and I just like now and then get sick of having the whole fleet of firearms. So I was like, you know what, I'm to go down and I'm gonna just like I'm no matter what I'm doing this year, dear Elk, whatever, everything from sickle black tails which are like hundred pounds up to four hundred pounds moose. I'm just using my three not messing around all kinds of different guns and whatnot. I'm gonna like, I'm gonna load up with a hundred and sixty five grain Federal trophy bonded bullets, and I'm gonna like, just just that's it done dinking around all fall. So go marching up the hill, and um, you know, Brody, we just like Brody had done a thing written an article not long ago talked about different people's choice, like if they only had to hunt with one gun, and what if most people it was split down the middle. But I mean, Joannest and I are the thirty sixth side of things, and you and cow were the three hundred side of things. And I think, you know, you're not making a mistake choosing the three hundred. It's just in some cases it might be a little much, you know, But that's things. So my whole like one gun deal right now, we go marching up and we uh post up on a glass and tip and we find that that night, you know, we got mauled by flies, bad maul So where my hands are still like not comfortable, got mauled by flies and glassed up a few doughs, a handful of dolls, one of which may have been a little spiker, and then Dirt got his big spot, kept the ball rolling, slept in our tents, woke up all fogging, and you said that night. Aren't out at night, and Yanni didn't believe me. Sure enough, the next morning, I have found in hunting the alpine, and like hunting the alpine for sick of black tails, the evening is not and it should not be considered an indicator of whether you're in a good zone or not. I don't know why. I see a lot more dear, and in fact we saw five or six at night. And now I'm saying, you know what, I know, we're looking at a bunch of dolls, and there's a lot more dear around. I find you they're just popping. The morning and it was a different story, like some little negative nancy thing, he said. And I remember I got up and it wasn't quite dark yet, and I gathered up my loot and I was like, see boys in the morning, and it was a cool but good you quit, you go to the bed so I crawled my tent and sleep and then wake up, wake up at daybreak, it's all foggy and rainy. I had a cup of coffee, go over to the glass and tip and just start just pounding deer, buck after buck after buck after all. Hard to find a dough the next morning, breaking deer everywhere. So me and were already split off, and I got I'm a one rifle man. That brings up another funny thing. We actually talked about that that morning because I remember there was a guy we had on the show one time who said, like he's got like, oh shotgun. He's like, beware of the man with one. Right. I'm like, dude, the guys I'm scared of the guys that got a ship load of guns that can shoot them all. You know. It's like the guys I know that shoot the best when I stay scared of, I mean, like the guys I know that are the best shots tend to have like a whole bunch of guns. Like you know, I like to shoot, like regarding myself a fairly good shot, and I got quite a collection. So um, yeah, I think it's just like a thing people like to think. But so yeah, neither is true. Whether you have one gun or a hundred guns, neither makes you a good marksman or or a good shot or you know, a good hunter. It all depends on how much you're shooting and practicing with the one gun or the hundred guns. Fenty of dudes with a hundred guns that those things just sitting saves safe. But it's like one of those like simple man mantras, y see where are the man with one guns? Nice? So yeah, me and bre already split off and we get up and we're three yards from a buck when glassed him at like six hundred and then you know, I moved in. Yeah, I got over there and I hit the deer in the rib cage, a couple of ribs up from the back down. I'm laying down prone. He's quartering away very slightly. There's a little bit of obstruction over his shoulder from some brush, so I shied away from that a little teensy bit. Mhm, No, it's more like, right, I remember my gun jumped up, my my big heavy hitter, right thing like talk about hooks at that thing. Remember the gun had like come back down and I was trying to see through the scope what had happened when I founally heard the right so new We hit him, yeah in the ribs. All thrips go there, and ah, he's still run off a little way. Not much blood, yeah he went no blood run off twenty yards and no, like real small entry hole through the ribs, small small and shouldered ribs, small eggs, the whole size of piece behind the show opposite should Everything looks cool, Everyone looks cool. We dragged the deer up to try to get out of the wind a little bit, and as we're dragging it, I'm starting to smell that there's like, ah gut shot type situation going on even though we're up in the ribs dragging around, and I think we're gonna like pull out the cutler and start working magic on the deer and get to working on it. And it's just like way like a lot out of damage, man, And I think I was just gonna say, upawn his autopsy the right word. We yeah, we did like a little bit of sexual a little you know. We we know we can say exactly the path of the bullet, you know, like in the placement, and it was it was ahead of the diaphragm, like you said two or three ribs and angled is such that it it still came out behind the opposing shoulder. It did not hit intestine or no, no, but it also did It wasn't angled so much either that you know, you like would have gone hit the opposing shoulder right like it exited behind the shoulder, so it gives you just a sense of where it was. So the path was like farther back in the whole vital area, but still ahead of the diaphragm. Both lungs had a hole through it. It was like excellent shot placement, is my point. You know, I don't feel like you were back. But that thing hit. That thing hits so hard and fast and big. Did it like yeah, burst the stomach? Maybe a rib bone went back in there or busted that. Yeah, because when that thing went in, even though you're on the skin, you have one small thirty cowhole. It bosted three ribs, but it could have just been that you tell me, honest, is the whole hydro static shock thing like is that a real thing? It's real? So that shock wave may have burst the gut too. Yeah, that's it. Not only did it burst the stomach, but I mean do you have a diaphragm that completely you know, separates the two. Right, Yeah, so burst that he said it didn't even its like wandering like ran off well, just kind of plunge down. It wasn't like a Yeah, like if you if you're if you're hunting, you hit a and you hit an animal. It's not always true. This is not always true at all, but in general terms, if you hit something in it like really quickly starts favoring like a downhill get away, you probably got a good hit up. Not always, not at all always, but if it's kind of towards you in a downhill direction, especially, it's like he probably got a good hit. And he was when he ran, he was on wobbly legs, like, good about it. And then there's another indicator about that happened here that tells you about your shot is there's two other bucks with them, and so a buckets hit and runs because he got hit right, just runs the way as it tips over, you can't see, you don't know what happened if he has disappears from your view. But when those other bucks hang out, you know, looking down trying to figure out what happened. He didn't leave right. So these artwo bucks were very slow to get out. So it's like, had that one buck really been missed and ran off, He's not gonna stop run. He's gonna keep going probably, and everybody's gonna travel with him. But when they're like hanging out trying to figure out what happened, he's down. No, he never felt a thing. Yeah, man, I think he was alive like a second at most. But when we open it up, so even though the shots through the ribs and in front of the diaphragm, everything up in there is just like stomach contents. And when I'm butchering, we use those uh those It's called a bench made steep country and it's got like a big boat, not a big it's a short blade, but like that big boat belly on it, big drop point, big drop point blade, and you like take that thing and usually if you get like if you hit something through the ribs, oftentimes especially on the exit side, you have like a lot of blood clotted stuff. Then you just take that thing and just clean down the ribs like match, You're just like scraping the ribs down, You're just like flaming it all the way. You just flate it all away and you just pitch it. But doing that, it's just like a mess. So now, but there was a sting of contents on both sides of the animal between the ribs and the hide and there like that's how much energy is going through that. There was grass like up in the shoulders, like just going You found some in the neck zone, like undigested stuff he had been eaten that morning. Yeah. Up, they had come out passed up between the skin and the muscle and jammed up in the neck area. Yeah, I'm not a one gun man anymore. Well, yeah, here's I mean, I'm Devil's advocate a little bit, because some guys are gonna say, like, so are you saying that you're animals too dead? Yeah? The gun did its job. It just did it a little too. Well. You're after two things. I'm after a sweet spot. If you imagine like two intersecting lines. Okay, one line is humane death and one line is meat damn much. Now, I could have gotten a really humane death with a hand garnaide or like RPG or shooting him in the shoulder chevy. Yeah, but sure, humane death, but the meat damage line it's too high. Yeah. So you're striving for um, like for instance, with archery. Right, Um, with archery, it's like a way, it's a different trade off, very very minimal minimal meat damage. The quickness of the death is not as abrupt. So with archery you have a different sort of trade off. Right, You're like, meat damage is this minimal? Even if you punched through the shoulder, Like had I hit that deer in the shoulder, there wouldn't have been either shoulder, it wouldn't have moved and you'd have had no shoulder meat. Whatso it this is way we had to trim out some bad shoulder meat on the exit side. So like with archery, like meat damage is next to nothing, virtually nothing, but quickness of death is slower. It's just like and then if people can bed, it's like okay, you know, screw you, it's just shorter. It's it doesn't happen as quickly. I'm sorry, I'm not. It's like I love it, right, bow hunt is great, Um, I think people should do more of it. Ah, and I have and I remember the hitting the bull elkow the bow and watching it take two steps ball over dead like it does happen by saying like generally those lines get moved low meat damage lower, you know, humane kill factor. So yeah, you could it was too dead. I got something you should try, I think before you decide to not be at one gun from one gun man. Here's thing. It's like the part of being a one gun man's being a one bullet man. Yeah, okay, please, Well, big reason people shoot like a lighter bullet, like five out of a tuner win maggots because it's flat, right, Yeah, but I mean this is a rabbit hole you can really get squirrely with. But that lighter bullet is blown around by wind more so shooting winnie conditions, you're shooting like a two dan like he likes to throw those big two hundred higher ballistic coefficient, so doesn't get blown off a little bit more. And once you really get out to range, just the air friction itself slows down the one sixty five faster than the two hundreds. So at some point out there, like six hundred plus yards that the two d grainar actually might surpass the But that's like ranges that we don't really shoot game app at least you and I don't. But something to think about is if you went up to two you were to be shooting a bigger bullet at a slower speed. I just feel like if you went and hit a one pound antelope, cou's deer, black tailed deer, yearling, whitetail, I just feel like hitting it with that guns going two grains. I don't know, I think you might see less. I think you would see less, Yeah, because I think it's the speed maybe and maybe the fracturing of the front end of that bullet, which is supposed to happen. You know, with that bullet that you're shooting, that's maybe causing more of that damage that you don't like. And if you had a bigger bullet that maybe uh stayed together moving a little bit slower, you wouldn't have as much of that shock. Yeah, Like, I mean, I shoot animals with a fifty grain muzzleloader bullet, and you know it's not blowing them into bits. Yeah yeah, I mean thinking about shooting deer back home with twelve gage slugs. Right, I never killed a deer to slug. It's right, you were. I lived north of the shotguns zone, so we're Steve. When I grew up somewhere, I don't know, do you know what de mark case, I could draw it on a map. But yeah, but anyways, in the southern part of Michigan, I think it's still that way. Now you can only use uh shotguns for the southern third of the state, and um, yeah, they just poke a nice big hole. Yeah, you got a deer with a buck with a chotgun last shotgun and I had no I had no meat. I shot him close range, you know, so it's still probably holl And buggy, But I think it's only coming out of the muzzle at like eighteen hundred to two thousand feet a second, So a thousand feet a second slower that same slug was doing three thousand. Yeah, probably a different end result a lot more meat damage, but I had none. When you do gys talk about hydrostatic shot, we're tom I was the hit so fast that you have like the projectile passing through it. But then there's also the issue of like displaced material, like displaced liquids that are then pushed out of the way at such a fast speed that they become projectile like or caused like this wave of shock. And that's why when you hit something it just goes down like all Sometimes when you hit something, it's just like down on the ground the shock of it. Because a slower velocities, you could hit something where it doesn't even register the hit and also in a couple of seconds later tips over from blood loss, but the actual shock of the hit doesn't do anything. Um yeah, man, I think I'm I don't know, I I hear what you're saying, but I think like I think that I I made like a brief foray into being a one gun man, and I'm foraying back out honna get me Like I'm going back. I'll have a little lightweight Deally and my little lightweight Deally is gonna be deer and antelope whatnot. And then I'm gonna have my big ball buster for Elchi mouse alchim mouse. Yeah. So is uh is damage? The meat damage like makes me sick? Yeah? Another thing you could try. We gotta wrap it up here, but you could, like you could try those trophy coppers. I've had really good luck with that copper bullet because it holds together and I've actually shot him on the point of the shoulder. Bull Elk. What was that shooting? When I shot that bull Elk? I can't remember now. I think it was my three short mag I was shooting a hundred and eighty grainer and it was like a two hundred yard shot not too far away, pointed his shoulder and just dropped him, just lights out, over and done, never kicked and h It had gone through both scapulus. You know it was high and you know, so there was But the point is maybe a two inch diameter made two to three inch diameter meat damage around the you know, the entry and the exit as it went through those capulus because that bullet is not exploding when it's hitting. Yeah, I had good luck with him last year. Those trophy coppers worked well for me, even shooting uh, lung shots because a lot of guys will say, oh, you're saying you like those trophy coppers. Yeah, And I was leary of them for lung shots because they're just you know, you hear the whole, like making a little hole through the lungs takes them a long time to bleed out. But that I did the double lung shot on the mule deer and an elk last year and they went Those animals went thirty forty yards and died. Yeah. I've just had a lot of really good luck over the years, like using what I use, but yeah, including thoughts. Yeah, man, um, I wanted to like jump in. I think one time when we were mooching. Next time we mooch, when you jump in with the scuba tank and go down there and just see how wild it really is. I think you could have stuck a GoPro down there that one day, because yeah, yeah, I'm thinking about going. I'm not sure yet. I'm thinking about this winter down in Seattle doing my diver certification. Man, but this is also just seems like a lot of I might but also seems like gear heavy, just a whole other damn you know, like a whole other thing. I would be pretty up in Southeast Alaska's like there's so much stuff to do and you want to It's like you gotta like focus, you know, just see like a whole other realm, just that much more ship laying around, not a whole another pile of that stuff. Another shock for your scoobern get like tanks. I don't know. I'm kind of dying to do it though, man. And I would dive down there too, you know, I would dive down there. That's it, Just that you want this film, uh, that's your complexion. No, just to see what's going on, because I think like we we everybody want take a what is this interaction and what the take looks like between the silvers and the herring, Like what's going on down there? And someone's probably already done it. Someone probably knows exactly what it looks like. Yeah, why aren't there nature movies? There's a million nature movies of pelagic warmwater pelagics pounding baitballs. There has to be nature movies. Maybe someone, if they know about this, can send us a note at the mediator dot com. But there has to be videos of Sam and working bayball. You know those the cameras at the ice fisherman send down. Yeah, I wonder if you could hang one of those off a boat, let's see what's going on down there. Yeah, but not like some souped up underwater photographers get Yeah, I want to see a souped up underwater photographer film of salmon working bait. I'm sure I can see, like what the interactions like, do they just come through, do they hurt? Are they corral? And um? Yeah, dirt too, they're quick though. One just speak on that. People made me think of it as a variety of activities you mentioned the bare uh interactions we had this trip were phenomenal thirty yards away, like get hoofed at em barked out, having a stare down with with the rang one with a better foe. Yeah, I mean that was that was something that won't leave me. The second one as I'm camping in my truck and I need a place to live. So if anybody in Bozeman knows of the rental or a caretaking ranch out of explain us. Now that's right. So Dirt, I mean, my gal, I want to help you out in this Dirt lives uh um those out of his truck. Yeah. When Dirt opens the door of his truck, you know, like you know that that little area like in your truck door where you keep like maps or a coffee cup like, and there's that little lower compartment that's Dirt's medicine cabinet. So he opens up his truck door, it's like shampoo and deoder and stuff all lined up in that little tooth phased toothbrush all lined up. Now, how long was your stint like as a real a resident of an actual dom style The longest it is probably about a year and a half because you lived with your girl until when June and up in a place with a roof. Yeah, and then we're both and she's she's a great Well, we'll be good tenants or caretakers. So you're looking for a caretaking gig and you don't want to pay any rent. Yeah, I mean, now, listen, I will come in and say this or or or we would rent, but we just need a place in Bozeman. If anyone's got something, yeah, and I will come in. And I don't do this very often. I will vouch up and down for Dirt as being if I was going to have my place caretake, I would have to be caretaked by Dirt. Thank you, Steve, Because I'm telling you what. We're trying to change the gear oil and one of the outboards and cook at that that uh, Dirt's of yeah, handy, handy, handy. So I'm wondering if you want to be saddled though with that responsibility. Well it's nice, but man, physicians are full time, okay, But Dirt has a job. Yeah, but Dirt just travels a little bit. But he's got his girl around to help out. Yeah, And and rental too. Were we just we're having a tough time finding a place out of town in the Bozeman area. So I figured you got, like, ideally, there's some joker out some wonderful person out there who's got a place that they're like kind of in a little bit, but not really in there that much. They would love to have someone there that was trustworthy, keep it up. You know Dirt's parents, Well, like I can vous for this guy up and down and screwed. His old man would come out and make it right. His old man would come make it right in a hurry. Not that Dirt would have screwed Garrett House at our place while we were at a great job. Yeah, while we were on vacation home. And but the deer, he did let the deer get the garden. But that was not that was that was a fence problem. He just happened to be there when it happened. So sounds of bitious. So you got, like, this place right, and you're only there now and then, and you just want everything to be tight, and when you show up, you want Dirt to be gone. He can be, he'll he won't even be, he won't even Yeah, you want to be the smelling, and his toothbrush will not his toothbrush would be in his truck door, not in your house. And to show up and everything's tight and right and you're ready to enjoy yourself. Um, so that was two things. You like running bears and having a wolf at you and clack your teeth out you and ship and then you liked you're looking for the place lift. Yeah, the winners upon us. The fall is brody. How came you never plug our fishing clients? Because I got all the clients that want really Yeah, man, I've been doing it for seventeen years. I don't need to I don't want one more. Yeah, if you want to look at it, look me up, go for it. But how they find if they want to book you for Colorado fly Fishing, fly Fishing Outfitters Avon Colorado orvis But I only got like, no'll find Brodi Henderson. Yeah, but I only got like six or eight weeks a year anymore. You know, I used to do two trips a year. That's just not fun anymore. I'm getting old. Yeah. I like to fish when it's like eighty degrees and sunny and there's a bunch of bugs hatching outside of that, I'm not really interested in it really. Yeah, and your kids right missing out? Yeah, like I'd rather take my kids fishing at this point. You don't want to be gone all the time. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Well there's an enthusiastic talk about a guy hungry for business by Henderson, But that might be the best kind of guy, because I'm happy when I'm out there. I'm not that that might be the best kind of guy. He's not gonna be like, oh, it's perfect right now, it's perfect. He might be like, if you go him, it's gonna be right. If you can squeezing a half day trip between June fifte and July, I'm all about it. You're gonna catch fish. Yeah, all right. My concluding thaws that shout out to Matt Elliott because we had a thing I used to on the on my pocket knife. I used always like those pocket knives that had part seration, oh yeah, part normal tip. Matt Elliott that bench made was kind of like he wasn't like down on it. He's like, oh, you know, everybody has what they worked for him. But he suggested to switching over and he took the I have this, uh you know, it's called a grip tillion. She's like what they call like the E d C, like the everyday Carrie knife. And I always had that serrated on there, and he took it and made it put it just straight, dude, I'm loving that, just straight man, You're not missing this. So I used to, like I have, honestly that my whole entire life, walking around the pocket knife that had seration on it, thinking I was bad motile, ready to cut some ropes, ready to like cut of rope. It like was dragging me off into a pit, right. I had to like cut it quick or else I die or something. Yeah, I think when you asked Matt about it, he's like, yeah, some guys like them, man beacon of knives. Though I got one more concluded real quick. I don't want to give the impression that we left a bunch of meat on the hill, Like we took our time and cleaned it up, and every just took went to left the heart my vacuum seiler, oh, really closing up the cabin, and I was like, you know what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna um not leave my chamber seiler. Like most vacuum steelers are like you know, like those little they're not a chamber seiler. Yeah, everyone has, like you know, you put it on the outside and you put the bag on the outside. I have like one of those Western chamber seilers where it's a much better system. The bags are better and cheaper to buy bags for a chamber see, but chambership was a lot more expensive either way. I didn't like my chamber seiler sealed up, and I thought it might mill doing air, so I cracked it open to stick a uh a little piece of chalker, just keep it, just to keep it cracked. It realized that damn dear heart was in there, sealed like I sealed the last bag, like crapping all of our meat. We were like ceiling fish and freezer paper and red meat. But I was like, for whatever reason, back bag, the heart didn't find that, So there's gonna be a fermented heart for the next person that goes there. No, I had to pitch it. Oh, it's through it all the water for the crabs, because they've been sitting there for unsealed, sitting there for however long in the room to in the wood stole right next to it. A total stupid move man but I still got my liver. No, man, we did like a lot of meat salt. It's just like it was a lot of work and made me realize. But where is the man with one guns? He's gonna leave a lot of meat damage, all right, Thanks for listening.

Save this episode