00:00:00 Speaker 1: Hey, everyone is the Meat Eater podcast. We're recording in Madison, Wisconsin. I'm here with Doug during from Madison. Cas No, are you from Madison or Casanova. I'm from Casanova, but I live in Madison. Yeah, Dugs from Casanova, which is like the redneck step child in Madison. Right, that's pretty accurate. Did you grow up? Did you grow up hating people from Madison because you were from Casanova. I spent a lot of time here. I used to come down here, like when I was in high school and stuff. Yeah, Dougs farm Dugs from a farm family and egg family. His dad. I've haunted on Dougs a handful of times. And I spent more time in Wisconsin that doing my home state now. And uh, Doug's dad was a rural mail carrier, right. Um. Funny story about Dug's dad. He some one time someone made it some calls trying to accuse Dug's dad of being a communist because he had delivered some magazines called Red Book pretty sample of Red Book magazine. Yeah, which for so they don't know, they thought he spread communist propic. Well, that and some other things that had gone on, you know, politically in the area. But yeah, and if you don't know, Red Book magazine is a woman's magazine, so I expected something like this red Book. Here with Remy Warren, we're mainly talking with Remy Um. Also here with Honest, we tell us a little known fact about y Honest, you tell us right now he has poison IVY on his packer. We were just got back from turkey hunting in California, and where we were hunting, the is it predominant or prominent? If I was gonna say the blank undergrowth predominant about pervading the pervading undergrowth, It's like a lot of places you go and you'd be like, oh, you know, oh ship, there's some poison oat or poison ivy. Um this place, it was just everything that wasn't a tree was poison oak. There was like trees, grass, poison. It was the prevailing, predominant, prominent, dominant. You know you didn't have so yeah, Yanni made himself a little like a no, I don't know, we didn't. You know, I've gotten that stuff so bad in the past. I've gotten that stuff so bad that I had to go to the emergency room for having bad fevers because we were burning at one time. They we were clearing a lot in Indiana and burned a bunch of that stuff and I had breathed it in and it wasn't hours later and I guess got very bad fever and um and since then, I've always had a problem with it. But the weird thing about this time is initial exposure was eight days ago and I just got my first blister this morning. But yeah, he's had it on his tally whackers since. Maybe it just sympathetic sympathetic symptoms. Right, you're just feeling for him a little bit, so you're like, look right here, and our crew were about they got it, and no, everybody's saying they did not get it. No, because you now have a spot, well count that as having it. Okay, Well no, I thought Mike said nothing on his forms. He's said a picture. It's pretty good on his forearms. I hate that stuff. Yeah, it's wicked. I made it about four or five days, really like strong mentally, and I've just been holding off and not scratching at all. And at three o'clock this morning, I just woke up and I even put band aids over like the worst one, so that I couldn't scratch while I was asleep, and I woke up like ripping the band aids off, unconscious because you want to go. Before I actually woke up, I was already on them all, dude. The last time I had it bad was I told his story A hunter times by skinned a wild pig that had been rolling in it, and it was just immediate. Was like the next day, I just had sleeves of it my waistline. I can see how I tucked my shirt in and like actually like finger lines where I had like tucked my wool undershirt in, like finger lines running down my abdomen. Had it on my scroll, had it on my tally. Whacker had it just everywhere, just just awful. And then we went from we went to hunt in Montana after that, and it's like blow zero, so you're laying in your sleeping bag just so you know it's cold, but you it's just like I hate that stuff, man. That seems like the worst. But Yani's got it pretty good now. And we were taking every precaution, like we'd hunt and you couldn't not You couldn't. You didn't even have to not hunt. The only way to avoid me to not hunt. So we hunted turkeys quite successfully, and we'd come back and just take off your pants and boots, wash your clothes. Anytime I touched my boots, I would tie my boots in the morning, scrub the piss out of my hands. When I took my boots off at night, scrubbed the piss out of my hands. I kept two or three layers out of all times. M Um, I feel like I still feel like I defeated it, but it could come out fourteen days later. Yeah. When I was I was blacktail hunting down there, and I did the same, you know, just camping though. So I just had a pair of gloves that I always wore anytime I was touching any of my clothes or anything. It was like put the leathern gloves on. But then I shot some mountain quail with my bow and then see the arrow laying over there. I was like, no, that's good because I thought, next time I draw the arrow back to touching my face. She was like, yeah, that was an expensive expensive birds to shoot at. Because I like, no, I'm not picking this man, I think the next time I do it. I was thinking about, uh, every time I've hunted there every time I hunted in California, I've gotten them in this area, you know. Um, I was thinking about trying to use bringing a shipload of latex gloves. Yeah, I think that would work. Just all day long, man, have like a ziplock baggy and just all day long, like putting latex gloves on and just periodically taking the things off, putting said latex cloves on, taking them off. It would probably work because it's always on your your hand, Like right now, I can feel some it hasn't done anything, and it usually it does. I can feel it on my face, but I got some where it pops up with your skins thin, so like my eye socket. I can feel it right here for sure. I bring those, uh like those. I don't alcohol wipes too. I think that that helps. Like they say they say ice apropyl alcohol cut that oil. When you get poison oak. What's happening? And this is something that we're talking about, Doug um my understanding right now. And I want to look at so much to look this up. I was just doing that. Is it poison oak and poison ivy? There's no difference. Are poison ivy and poison oak the same thing I'm on answers dot Com. Yeah, is the is the answer poison ivy toxic condra radicans and poison oak toxicondra. Oh diverse. But I thought it was a unbroken cline of integrades across the species, right. I really like that. When you said that earlier, I was like, Wow, he really knows what he's talking about. But he's like, I have this unbroken cline of integrades. You can picture what that means, right. It would be like you got some bird. It's everywhere, but like you look at one in Californi turkey is a good example. Yeah, for instance, the wild turkey, the osciola turkey in the eastern there's no genetic barrier, like like an ostiold turkey is is what is known as a subspecies of the wild turkey in the Florida Peninsula. What what you can't see if it? Doug's giving this face like this like oh here we go face. I was just thinking about a conversation that Addison I had earlier about I want to I want to hear about dougs uh purple suburban. But first let me tell you about Dougs purple suburban it was oh sorry, no, please please only it's only my podcast, all right. So, Unbroken Client of Integrates, Eastern turkeys look different than Ostiola turkeys, but there's no gap, there's no like gap where one ends and the other begins. The same thing with mule deer and Columbia blacktails. According to Boone and Crockett, it's I five West five, he's a black tail, East I five he's a mule. Here. You could go for me the blacktail to a muleder just by crossing the highway. Unbroken Client of Integrates, they look different, all right, what we're saying, No, Well, it's they're they're not the same, but they are related, is that right? All right? And it's the reason that that is theres the same. Yeah, but then the we'd have to get a taxonomist to talk about this, but they aren't there, you know, same uh genus, different SPECIs different family, different family. Yeah, Jennifer, so I think you know what Yanni's wife, Yes, his wife's a botanist. What she said, you have different family, the two of them, and then poison Sumac is the whole another one. Yeah, well I know that always thought or have you pronounced that the same oil. Good I stand corrected. No, No, he's gonna scien scrolls wrong now and I was gonna say that you a right. Steve's right well, and that they're they're they're related. All right, everybody's right, Rammy, you're just off the plane from New Zealand. Um, all right, I want to give because I want to talk about New Zealand from it, all right, but I want to bring but I want to like bring list I want to talk to I'm gonna address listeners from it. You correct me when i'm done, You correct me where I'm wrong. Alright, New Zealand has New Zealand's big ass island, the Pacific. It's like a continent ekind of island giant. It's actually too primary islands California. So the only native mammal that New Zealand had were some bats pre arrival of humans. The first team is the goal. There were the mayority, right, how did that? They were not the first teams, but they were the most successful Polynesians. Yeah, I mean apparently to marry they took over the island, and then they because there wasn't a lot of food, so then eventually they used the original native people as food source. Yeah, they were big in the cannibalism, like keep putting people out on islands and stuff. Yeah, but they was because they essentially extinct, extinct their food source, which was a moa giant. Yeah, that's what I want to get to. So New Zealand had no mammals except for some bats and um. But they it was like they had birds that filled all the all the niches or niches if you're if you want to like you know more what you're talking about. They had birds that filled all like the mammal niches, like giant grazers four five hundred pound birds. Yeah. And then top predator was a the hast eagle, which eight five pound birds. So that's like that is a giant eagle. That's what my kids would call it. Bad mobile. Natural History Museum. You have been there in uh it puts the main big town the bottom of the North Island, Auckland. Auckland is the capital, right, Yeah, I think it's the natural history museum. We went there. They have a recreation of a cave and it's like it's a hole in the ground right below the ground level where one of those eagles had caught the Moa and then crashed into there and the bones were like on top of each so they had it kind of recreated in there. Yeah, giant all right, So New Zealand the like, there's a problem with islands where when people colonize islands, they tend to eradicate, you know, all the wildlife, like it happened in the Hawaii Islands. Like Polynesians when they arrived in Hawaii, what many many many extinctions and one problem they show up with rats, you know, yeah, to show up with rats. People tend to show up places with pigs cause all manner problems. So one the like the polony or like a people of Polynesian destentihal up in New Zealand and and like everything it just crashed, like the place crashed pretty much. Yeah, they just ecological ran out of food and all those big birds are very vulnerable to over hunting later, you know, the bridge show up. And I was just reading about this the r day the Brits. The British had these committees you know how like nowadays you belong to a conservation organization, like I'm a member of a handful of conservation organizations, and the goal of a conservation organization would be that you conserve generally like you're conserving native wildlife. Pheasants Forever is a conservation organization that tries to conserve and introduced bird, the pheasant. You know, pheasants aren't from here. There from Asia. When the British were in New Zealand, they had these things called acclimatization organizations. It's like it's an organization dedicated to trying to make New Zealand seemed familiar to Europe. Just yeah, everybody wants to feel like they're at home. Was to bring in they were. They were organizations based around bringing in an introducing wild plafe and plants and other things. There's the worst plant, there's gorse. It's like, let's bring a plant that every time you walk past it at pokes you and then causes rashes. Was it intentionally brought in? I think so, just another I mean I don't know for a fact, but it could have been. Could have just been a byproduct of bringing in some other animals. Yeah, there's just a ton of plants like that that have no Yeah, we like spotted nap weed here, I mean we have tons of stuff here. It was accidentally that rolled in on wheat seats, you know, thistles, all kinds of stuff. So in New Zealand they introduced everything. A lot of things stuck. And now in New Zealand you go hunting there and you're not hunting um native wildlife, but it in New Zealand and environmentalist. It's someone who wants to kill all the wildlife pretty much because there's a big movement to particularly with predators because they have a lot of small No, they don't have any big predators. They have a lot of small predators. Weasels, skunks, the um, the omnivorous no skunks, possum, but stots, skunks, they're stouts. There's which is the feral cats, weasels, ferrets, um, stouts and then possums but they aren't opossums. They're red possum. Yeah, they're in Australian. It's used the possums were actually brought over for It's like they put it in with the wool. They mix it with the wool, which is so when you shoot a possum you can actually pluck them they're still warm. Yeah, so you mix it with sheep wool and it's like gives it this cashmere field super super softer, pretty cool pelts. So they did that and they got a big proplem rats too, Yeah, rabbits hairs, those are the worst. New Zealand's got this big struggle where they're like, you know, it would be a goal if you ask, if you ask like a conservationist or an environmentalist of some sort in New Zealand, it would be a gold. You'd you'd clear the island of all non natives and somehow start rehabilitating all the law species, many of which are gone forever, like you won't get them back. There's a lot of endangered birds there and stuff, and hunting there's weird because on one hand, the government's out gun and animals from helicopters and poisoning with ten eighties cereal poison. You've got kind of everyone's like, oh, there's no no predators, no limits, no seasons, but you've got government guys shooting them from helicopters, people poisoning areas like and everybody hunting all the time. No close season. Yeah, there's no closed seasons, no bag limits. Your competition isn't so much other hunters, it's it's government sharp shooters shoot out a helicopter it's just a wild place to hunt. I you know, I've I had a great time. If if viewers of the show Meat Eatered, might you know no Remy from various things he's involved in. But um, we did four episodes, very well received episodes of media that we shot in New Zealand, Hunt with Remy and um what what you spent? What time there? Uh about three months like March, April, May, a little bit in June. Yeah, you know what, I know, I got a buddy and anchorage. One thing about New Zealand. When you see, when you like, if you see like a TV host type personality, guy go over New Zealand, he shoots a giant stag. Always it's a pend up animals. So what you do is they raped? But what except I'm gonna tell you about a dude. I know. So they raised stags like like red deer. They raised them in order to for many things meat, but also to harvest de velovet for afrodesiac markets in Asia well and joint medicine. There's a lot of it. Oh so it's not afrodjac it's like human performance stuff. Oh that with the velvet s for a lot of time, you know, what okah, So I mean, I'm sure it is afrodjiac stuff, but they use I guess they used recently, we've been asked to collect the tails. I guess there's a gland in the tail that they use, like dried up something like that on like while they're running this gland so they yeah, but the yeah, you can make like uh, there's something that's good for your joints. So they raise deer like it's profitable. The velvet's valuable enough where you can raise dear just to pull velvet and sell it. Yeah, and when to want to want a stag gets I'm still paranoid about ticks. I'm still like checking my head for tis places turkey as my ticks on. That's good. So what if stag gets to be like as big as he's gonna get. Right, Yeah, they'll sell it to a guy who runs hunts. They'll put in a truck and drive it over and turn it loosen his little penned area. Then the dood will come out and he'll be like. They'll be like, well, how much do you want to spend and what's the cost did you want to shoot fou about twelve thousand somewhere around there and they'll charge you based on the you'd be like, oh, I want to spend ten or twelve, and they'll show you which one to shoot. I have an idea for New Zealand. I brought us up with you before. They have like range finding binoculars. I want to make a rifle scope. This will be good for Texas, New Zealand. A bar code reading rifle scope. Where as you're aiming at the animal, like when you're a high when you're hunting, like a high wire place in Texas they'll use in Africa, when you're aiming at the animal, it shows you what it costs the bottom of your scope. That guy could actually you could just set it straight to my uh iPad or whatever and then they can just like adjust the prices your radioism. It probably wouldn't work for their advantage though, for the guides and people trying to make the money, because I feel like they're always like, yeah, that one's so much, this one's a little bit more, and he's like, no, I can't afford that one, and then the guy says, well, just look at him through the scope, you know you look, Oh yeah, he looks good. Now I feel like if that price tag was blinking right there, he'd be like, that's yeah, that's probably a good point. So um. But yeah, I was watching the guy I've always admired. There's a there's a guy, want to name his name, I've always admired him, and I was watching him hunting in New Zealand. He's just sitting there. It's just like giants stag after giants stag after giant stag. I'm like, this dude's hunting like a penned up spot. But there is this guy knowing anchors who was just in New Zealand hunting tar and he killed a bowl that scored in the three nineties wet score and his he said his guide was shocked that they found it. Was it private land nobly that I don't know, but it wasn't in defense. Well, yeah, I call him escaped convicts. Yeah, yeah, it's an escaped convict because depending on where he's tar hunting. Uh, yeah, you just aren't gonna find him that big. They just don't grow that big in the wild. I mean, it's not I would say, like the real world record is probably in the three thirties. Yeah, that's how big. That's how big he'd get on a free range place. Yeah, I mean, and that's if they were only well managed. I mean maybe they could get a little bigger. But yeah, it's an escaped so it's a supplemental feed that makes him a lot bigger. Just let him get spent. It's the same thing as dear anything. It's breeding feed combination. Um yeah, I mean, now there's like like when they breed him up, you could have a first year's stag, like after you know, Spike in the second year, two year old that scores four hundred. Oh yeah, like these ones that they grow, Yeah, apparently they just grew like a new world record. I don't even know what that means really, but and it was I can't even remember the numbers, but it's over seven. But no one's going to accept like a trophy type place. No one's going to accept the score, right. Yeah, they have like a special category for fenced animals. But that's why with them raising so many true wild my my thought is your record should be public land only, and then you know there's gonna be the occasional dude that shoots one that just escaped, and those guys know, they just be like, well, this isn't a wild year, and so you know, but you can tell like a real big most stags that are wild, they're big twelve or fourteen pointers. But it's funny because you could be on one of these high fenced deals and you'll see these, you know, giant four stags. But then there will be some wild ones that they just can kill out there. So yeah, and you see him and there they could be like good wild ones and they see death all the time. Those are probably the hardest to kill animal you can find it. I had a friend that's like this. He had this wild one jump into his his little operation there or I don't know, maybe he's born in there, who knows. And I mean it's been in there for like five years and they couldn't kill it. It's crazy, I mean because he just live in the in the thick bush and it's just seen every animal on the place gets slaughtered. So he's like, yeah, if he's like, go in there and shoot it for me because it's killing my big stags. I was like, oh, yeah, it should be no problem. It took me five days. It's fun to find it. It's crazy. I was like, huh, okay, but that's I mean, I'm not you know, obviously I don't hunt high fence stuff, but I went in there to go take care of the problem for a guy, and thoughts to myself, what's harder going on public land where there's thirty stags per square miles on this one one stag, you know twenty I don't even know how big the place it was, you know, thousand acres and one stag. Or go on the wild property there's twenty stags per thousand acres. You know. It's like, Okay, that took a lot long, and it was frustrating because you're like, this should be easy, this is stupid. The most exciting thing I did this I know something you like the most in New Zealand is um you can do that, right. There's plenty of red deer hunt, but there's also there's a lot of crazy animals just living out in the Oh. Yeah, well, I mean for me, if I'm going if I'm going to hunt for myself, I'm gonna go tar hunting. That's it's just the country. It's like, okay, I can go on doll sheep type hunt, mountain goat type hunt, whatever, just on the weekends for fun every week in the country is really what it's all. Oh yeah, open stuff. We just like you just like drive up these areas and it's just a matter of like what you're willing to hike. Yeah, you know, we were in and Shammy. We went through private land to access we were hunting public land. I think you know the road, well, the road goes through the road was like an easymant. Yeah, anybody can drive that road. Yeah, we just wasn't even the road really. Yeah, we just kind of drove up there basically like you're driving on gravel moraines and stuff up well. Yeah, because the rivers it's just like you know, Montana rivers public between the high water marks. So that's why we drive up the river because so yeah, we were there. I don't want to tell you where it is because you'd be screwing Rammy over. But we went into a place to hunt and we drove did we drive twenty miles upper like just driving up river like very careful. You can kind of see where vehicles will go. There's a lot of gravel just like askars and moraines, gravel bars. You kind of see it now and then you'll see like a route sometimes you can't find the route, you just pick your way up this river and be just like driving up a big braided gravel stream channel. And it was those kind of arbitrary where we stop. It was like you couldn't really go, Well, there's a point where walking is a lot faster, but you want to get as far as you can because we had obviously a lot of gear camera equipments, like you might as well drive up as far as we can and then walk from there. Yes, we got where we couldn't go any further, and then it's not far up there. Everything it just turns into glaciers. Yeah, but you hike from there and you're glassing from the valley floor and you're glassing up and seeing shammy, which was rare where we were at. That's like my little secrets and you're seeing tar but it'd be like you're seeing them, but you're seeing them, and it's it's a day investment to go even begin to try to find one. Yeah, but you don't even need a hunting license, No, why you kind of do what you need. Well, it's just this thing. You don't buy it, but you fill it out online. So it's it's they call it a hunting Licen's nothing we would think of that. There's no non resident you have to have this special permit that says, oh I can be in this area. Is free. Yes, it's free just online. I know some of that stuff might change the future, but as it is right now, you just boom pop online. It's interesting because they get you for the fishing tag. Well yeah, fishing you gotta pay for. And duck shooting. You have to have a hunting license for aut geese because they deregulated geese. Yeah. I just got a goose with a rifler. Oh yeah, which isn't weird, very weird feel Yeah, the last time I was up that so I went up. I go up that canyon quite a bit just because it's close to where I'm at. And I got a double on geese as my rifles. Yeah, I gotta. I gotta buddy. And he's like a crack commando of a hunter. He's a guy, you know, he's a dull sheet guy. He just rounded up a couple of friends and they went to New Zealand just all on their own. Yeah, he just he just did a bunch of research, talked to everybody. Can think of to talk to and just like hunted public land. One of them got a stag. Everybody got tar. I sent him into my tar spot. Yeah you know what I'm talking about. Yeah yeah, he uh said, Actually he got into He had a good hunt up the place that I always go. It's just kind of like, you know, just like anywhere. I'd rather hunt the same place five times in a new place every time because you just get to learn the ins and outs of it. And uh, they saw some He was telling me about the stag they saw in there. I was like, why didn't you shoot it? Man? He's like, oh, I don't know. It just didn't seem big enough. And I went in. I went back in there right after they left looking for it. I never found it. Yeah yeah, yeah, New Zealand trip man. But here's the thing. I liked it, but it was hard for me because there's no um. The animals are missing their sort of context. They're sort of historical context. But maybe it's because around the culture so much. Because for me, I go there and you know, I like and I understand where they're coming from, Like I've seen the videos and heard the stories from the old timers and the animals in New Zealand have a very important role in the culture and the culture of hunting because well, obviously, okay, they're non native, but how many non natives do we enjoy here brown trout and pheasants and you know, all kinds of things, and so over there the culture of hunting is is just different. You gotta like look at it through the lens of a native born Kiwi hunter where they were not essentially that one who hunts Kiwi's correct. Essentially it is based on coaling animals where the animals are released, and then they started to overpopulate, correct, And so hunting was they would go out and they would shoot for meat and then and control the numbers. And then it became a huge meat market thing where they would go and shoot the animals and sell them. And then you got into this era you guys feed like you'll go to a guy that owns dogs, he'll just have like a little closet. They'll just shoot animals. That's why you feed your animals with chunks and meat off. It's just like imagine an inexhaustible supply of meat that was always available to you, you never had to worry about. And so you go there and like venison is so accepted there whereas in America it's like this it's a hip thing or a new thing or something hunter's eat. Now everybody eats venis in there. That's that's meat. That's what you eat because it's everywhere. You don't have to go out and like everybody knows somebody that can go shoot meat. You know, you're you raise a point that I've actually thought of because I moulled this over my head all the time when you bring it, when you mentioned pheasant brown show, like for instance, I was I was brought up in Lake Michigan, on Lake Michigan, and across the lake we're in Wisconsine. Now it's going up in Michigan on Lake Michigan, and we grew up fishing steel ed co ho king salmon. Okay. Now a guy might have come out from California, Alaska, it said to meat, but dude, these are just introduced. But to me, it was like just an ingrained part of culture and it want to be in the I knew, like academically it's like, yeah, they're not from here, but they're from here because they've always like from my perspective, they were just here you know, and it's like, yeah, sure, I accept that they're non native, and you think about like people you might hunt peasants in some place, your grandpa hunted peasants. It winds up being so. But but that's what I'm saying. Like for a stumbling block for me, going to New Zealand was like like, let me just put this way. If I go, let'say go up to hunt cariboo. Okay, I'm very interested in sort of the ecological history of caribou traditional use patterns among indigenous hunters. Right, the way the animal, like the way it just tied into things about how the first Americans whoever crossed the barn Land Bridge were probably carib hunters, right, I get. I find pleasure in that it makes things like relatable to me in in a deep sense. To go to New Zealand from an outside perspective, I just felt like, yeah, but you just let all this stuff go. Yeah, but it felt like it was yesterday, but it's it's not. I mean, there's been you know. It's like, Okay, I drew a uh and I could be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure, well no, actually yet. Red red Deer in New Zealand have been there longer than elk have been in the state of Nevada. So you draw this coveted Nevada elk tag and you're like, whoo, who I just shot a big elk in Nevada and you don't even think twice about it. Yet you go to New Zealand and the deer have been there twice as long. That's right, folks. The media podcast brought to you by the New Zealand Chamber of Commerce. So you raise a valid point, dude, you raise a valid point. It's just when you start talking. If you if you talk to people that grew up in that culture. I mean, there's so much history of the people there in that hunting and the animals and and what it means to them that you respect. You're like, okay, you grew up doing this. And they have the stories of back when they were shooting them, putting them on helicopters and taking them out overloaded, and like guys going into Fiordland and these wild wild places trying to hunt elk and other things. There's actually moose released there. It's yeah, now I don't It's one of those things where people keep seeing moose tracks every once in a while, But there really are probably no moose lass. I don't know if there's. There's some pretty good hunters and imagine being able to hunt all the time and mountainous, rough terrain and not having limits whatever. I mean, these guys are probably some of the best hunters in the world, to be honest. That dude, that dude that we went pig hunt with, Garen, he's been around the block. Oh yeah, And I mean the guy has killed thousands and thousands of animals and oh yeah, that was some of the sketches ground I've ever hund a big game. Oh it's it's crazy. I went to a place I was last year, and I mean I had to cross these glaciers and everything. It's like, where else can you go do that besides maybe the Himalayas and a few places in Alaska and go hunt hunt species that can't be hunted anywhere else in the world. Really him Lanta at least? All right, Wins, Let's say a quick break to get a quick shout out to one of our supporters, Wealth Front. All right, if you like listening to the media podcasts for free, you have to pay a special tention. What I'm saying because it's like these boys at well Front helped keep me either podcasts free and wildly available. It's an automated investment service that makes it easy to invest your money the right way. So if you want to grow up to be a guy that just hunts and fishes all the time, listen to what I'm saying. Well Front software manages your money using investment strategies that used to be available, just like super wealthy investors for just about one quarter of the cost of using their traditional advisor, and well Front monitors are your account around the clock to for seven and they automatically rebounce your portfolio, reinvest dividends, and maximize after tax returns. Again, man, I'm talking about getting where you don't have to work and you just hunting fish. You got to invest. I used to not be good about it, but I'm better about it now. Launch us back in there. But we were we on New Zealand Crazy bush Hunters. So yeah, you've made all kinds of money on well Front and now you're gonna go Seriously though, um, have you guys do you guys to worry about your future? Like, did you do anything to say for the future wait, you're saying stock playing meat in the freezer isn't good enough. It depends on you gotta watch the prices. You gotta wrap it right so it's still sailable later because I have a forced investment thing now, like you you heard of a step like a tax thing. Ever, you're gonna do my taxes they make you like save some money, so I finally have like money. It's only because it's a gun to my head. They're like, basically like, you can either save it or give it to us. I'm like, I le'll save it. You're basically deferring pay tax, which nothing wrong with that. Old three kids, Steve, I think probably saving it would be a good idea. Now you got, I feel like you're saved. For the bicycles, Like I feel like I'm buying a new bicycle every two weeks. Now. We just bought the new strider bike. You know, I was telling you My three and a half year old gets a new strider bike, like six weeks ago. We're striding along. Everything's going great, she can coast it well. She just grabs a pedal bike from her daycare because she wouldn't leave it alone. So the daycare owner was just like, look, just take this thing home so I'll beat up and rusty. She gets home, put her feet on it, starts pelling it. Now that thing is so beat up that she's like, I need a bigger one. Look at the bike. That girl's guy so never ends, and you can't really deny them because it's like exercise, like you'd be like, no, I'm not buying you a blank. Oh and you know what, there's a housekeeping dude. Bat we're recording a hotel and the housekeeping guys banging out here. Duke, you talk to those guys. Sorry, No, I was just saying that the the chess Shire cat grant on her face and she's riding that by I got buyer as many she could ever want. You know what I'm saying. We had a strider and um my kids smoked the bearings out of it. I don't want to talk about New Zealand anymore cause I want to talk about something different. But anyone have any concluding thoughts. Concluding thoughts, It was a question and primarily hunts the same Patrick ground he grew up on. Yeah, very much. Yeah, that's exactly right. I wondered about you said that the government was poisoning and their shrup shooters and all this. Why don't they introduce predators during during World War Two? Well they that's the problem. They so the rabbits were a problems, so they introduced the weasels, and the the weasels and the ferrets. Well, the weasels in the first decided that the native flight was bird species are way easier to kill and ethan rabbits. That's when they brought it. They brought it. In Hawaii, they had the rat they brought in the mongoose to take care of. The rats just devastated ground nesting birds. So you can garticular the writer Tom Robbins was talking about the rat mongoose thing in Hawaii and he said, we used to have a crime problem. We brought in cops. I know. I just found this out recently though, that during World War two, when all the men were away fighting, the deer population just exploded. And he actually thought about bringing in mountain lions. Yeah, that was a legitimate like solution. Would have been all for it, man. Yeah, imagine like the shepherds, though, what are they gonna eat? What are the deer gonna eat now? Or what are the line canna eat because I have been Like, listen, it's a crazy zoo. Now anyway, let's just goin. Bengled tigers might as want to be something that's semi dangered. You're highly endangered. We've got enough mountlines and set some Bengal tigers loose. Yeah it's listen, I don't hear. Here's the thing I wanted as for my own wrap up on New Zealand. I want to do my own thing. One thing I felt about New Zealand and I had a blaster there and like I'll remember it all the time. I hunted a red deer in England and if I could scrub the memory from my mind, I would scrub it from my mind. No no ider in scott Scotland. If I could scrub it from my memory, I would because it just wasn't I just didn't care about it. It wasn't exciting to me. The system there is not exciting to me. It's like, yeah, it's like you can only hunt like the games all privately owned. You go all the gamekeeper. He's not even supposed to let you touched the gun until he lines it all. It's just like yeah, it's like it's just it's like Old World. It scrubs all the adventure from honing in turns and they get special they get dressed up in special clothes. That is about the adventure for me in New Zealand. Is That's what I was gonna try to say. Way adventure. Yeah, it's thirty miles up a river valley. Well, can I tell one of my favorite stories that I has ever happened out hunting wrap up? Yeah? Okay with a thirty miles up the river valley when we sent when you were here story? Yeah, bad story because nobody has heard this story. This is a very behind the scenes, behind the scenes into the into the workings and dealings of meat eater, and a story you shoot your shammy and I my buddy Ben, who came over from Australia, was he's just hunting around and so I said, hey, we need some guys to carry equipment, do a little packing. So we've got Auzzi Ben carrying cameras and reach our battery. So we shoot the shammy and then we send Ben back to the vehicles. Two charge some batteries and I'm thinking it's past dark and we're back at the hut cooking up dinner, and I'm like, man, where is Ben? So? No, he was supposed to have been gone longer? No, was he okay? Yeah, so he gets back. We thought he'd come back the next day. I thought, no, he was. He was gonna come back just after a while. And I and we were all just joking around, like I wonder if hopefully Ben is smart enough not to run the vehicle out of fuel. And so we're eating and Ben comes back and he just like doesn't talk to anyone, no eye contact, and I got you didn't run the vehicle out of fuel, did you? Ben? Just joking around and he's like real quiet, and then we do our thing or eating. It comes up to me he goes, Renny, I need to have some words. And I thought I thought Ben was pissed that we were making him the grunt, like I'm sick of carrying your crap. I'm not gonna go up the mountain for tar. I'm like, oh great, now he's gonna quit on us. And then I'm like, We've got this big production crew. The pressures on me because I'm kind of orchestrating the whole inner dealings out there, and I'm thinking I'm like, oh, great, these guys are gonna be pissed. He's gonna quit. And he goes, uh, REMI I don't know how to tell you this, and I'm like yeah, and I'm expecting him to just be like, I'm sick of carrying crap and charging batteries. He goes, I shot your truck. And I look at him, go, what do you mean you shot my truck? And I'm like, are you okay? It's like, yeah, well, I was sitting there and his vehicle. I guess the power plug wasn't working or something. So he gets in my vehicle. He's sitting in the passenger seat and we shot some geese with We had the shotguns ready for shooting geese. And he goes, you know, in oz we don't have semi automatic weapons. And this dude's an engineer, he's a smart guy, and yeah, we don't have those kind of we don't have those kind of trying to figure out how it works. So he's sitting there and he's just charging batteries for a few hours, just board and he pulls he says, he's sitting there. He pulls the thing back, you know, the action back, looks in there, pulls it back, and he's just sitting there flicking the action click click, click click, you know, looks in a few times. Nothing. Oh, there's a button on the bottom. Hits the button. Here's a noise. Huh. And he's sitting there click click, click, click click, flip the action back and forth out of board. Him decides to reach down and pull the trigger. Well, there had been shells in the magazine, not in the chamber. We didn't leave it loaded. But you know it's fine. That welts exactly. I mean, you know, I leave shells in my magazine. It's not wherever we're at, it's not illegal or anything. And he pulls it back, pulls the trigger, boom through the foord boards, blows out the fuel lines, and he he said that when it went off, his like shell shock. He opens the door and he just with his barns on the ground, scared. It would have to scary half. And then not only that, but now smokes billowing out and andress I told them that I always knew Australians were good shots because they could shoot a truck while it's running. But yeah, so we had to tow that and multiple river crossings over rough terrain He's like, he didn't blows to off. Well, that's why I always set the barrels, you know, barrels down. But my dad carried shock on pelts in his foot. That's what you're saying for just ever got shot? Well, I think no, I'll tell im. I'm given a talk tonight at the university. I'm gonna talk about that story for a minute. So I don't want to. I don't want to ruin. Yeah, I don't want blow because you guys might be the only people there. You have. Some bitch talked about this earlier. Remember the worst though, was telling how long did it take about eight hours to get the v go back? All day? It was all day me and you were I was steering the back vehicles, just sucking diesel fumes. You're a soldier sucking diesel fumes with me for ten hours. I felt so sick after that. If I remember, I repeatedly brought up the idea that we cut a piece of vacuas it passed the line, and someone kept saying, maybe you that once you run these kind of vehicles out of gas, that doesn't work well because of the diesel engine fixed it and said that's not true, you can fix it, right, and I didn't. Yeah, well we I don't think we was accidentally right. You were accidentally right because we didn't have the proper tools to fix it because remember how bent the fuel, I mean, everything was. I had no idea what I was talking about, but ended up well accident it was. It was more of a general like, can't we just pull something from somewhere else and patch it up? Theoretically we could have. I'm not I'm not a very good mechanic. That's about your out. I doubt it. Maybe we should have a contest, But I want because I want to talk about why Remy came back to wrap up to some people listening, because I know I grew up in Michigan and we could We couldn't even have the AMMO like with an arm's reach. I think of the gun in the car. Is the rules something? Yeah, because because not in this state anymore anymore, because the great governor here got it where you don't need to have your guncames no matter what else, you don't have to Mackie's. It's it's very strict rules on that. And then you move out west and it's like in a couple of years you're used to just having you know, whether it's um, you know, shells in your magazine, your shotgun or you know, rifle carts, just you know down in your action of your bolt action rifle in the back seat of the truck. It's like totally anointed, right, we just drive around like that, you're going out west. I think, why did I get my first shotgun? I think it was eight nine nine because it has here's a shotgun, like you can keep it in your room, but you can't have shells in the magazine. And I was like, but we can have him in the magazine when we're driving around. My mom was like, my mom drew the line. She's like, you can have the gun in your room, but you cannot have shells in the magazine. We had guns when we were so young. It just seems weird now. Man, we drive round on our bikes. Was slung twenty two and like I remember, like I didn't even understand the time, but certain kids were allowed to hang out with us because you guys roll up on our bikes with like like those two bed marlin just let's go. Yeah. If I remember at that time, you just felt so you're like I'm eight, I can have a shotgun, you know. I was like, okay, you have my dad, I just don't shoot Robbins. Yeah, we had a long list of birds were allowed to shoot. Now I'm embarrassed even saying what was on that list? But Chicken's and robbinsf So oh one other thing though. The meat there is good, though. The tar we killed a favorite, and we killed a tar we made. Remember we made tar. That's fun, all right, That's what I want to talk about. So, Remy, you came back in town because your new shoulders on exactly now when I met Remmy, I met Remmy and went to hunt in New Zealand with him. Um, you had already been doing some television. Yeah, I'd been doing solo Hunters for about a year or two years something like that. Then. Yeah, yeah, I wanted Remy to come on and be like like when I was on vacation. I wanted Remy the host meat eater. But stead he's got his whole new damn show. Now I'll still come on today. We're gonna cook up what's the worst thing you could think of eat? We've already eaten a coy out and I saw you eat a monkey. Is there anything just just folks. Yeah, I think that can be red fox and hedgehoger on the list, not hedgehog groundhog groundhog. Hedgehogs already eating in England. He can't kill a hedge hung The two doorable whatever the one is back east not the same might be able to arrange. It's a good time you're to get them too. They spent a lot of time out with the borough right now, says now. Rammy has been working with um same folks who made make Meat either to launch new show Apex Predator. Talk about that, yeah, I mean what we were. My thought was, I think if you watch Apex Apex Predators just to show, you have to watch to understand because it's not necessarily a hunting show, and especially coming from a guy like me. My life is hunting, but straight hunt, straight hunting. I mean I guide for a living. I right for Western hunting articles and magazines. I do solo hunters. Well, I want to bring miss up. I got to here's I want to knowing you from reading your articles in Western Hunter and which is which is? I said, I want to meet this guy because you'd write great articles. I remember you had a great article about like you do a lot of stuff like self guided stuff, how to like get away from the crowds back country junk. You by this, Yeah, this really cool article about like trying to find like hunting mule deer in high pressure areas in Nevada. It's funny that. Uh. Well, when I got the first email from you, you were talking about hunting in Montana. I think, you know, looking to looking for some ideas in Montana. I was like, I'm going to New Zealand in a month or so. I want to join me. Yeah, so I think I might even got your contact from Chris Denham Western Hunter magazine. Yeah, which is funny because you said the email you know, you and I had watched um now I can't remember the name. Uh yeah, and I love that show, and I it was funny because I've been talking about that show before I got your email, and I was like, that's strange. The guy that's on that show just send me an email. It's like most random email I've ever received, probably, but it turned out being pretty cool. You're able to go to New Zealand and so that we met and I was like, yeah, I really wanted to work with you. More so talk about apex though, like like just give the I mean, get what it is, Okay, So what is the study of It's it's looking at the way humans are have become or are the top predators. And there's a lot of factors that go into it. But I have this thought that we can look at like if you look at every animal on the planet, they're all they all fill a niche. They're specially adapted. They do something specific to survive, and that's how they get by surviving, whether it's a predator animal or a prey animal. They all feel a certain spot and they're all really good at something. But it's humans. We can look at something nature has specialized in and try to mimic it for our own hunting tactics, our own hunting style or it really like the more we do the show, it amazes me how much we actually compare or can compare to these animals that we think are our way out of our league or hunt so different than us. We've taken a lot of tactics and a lot of things from a lot of different aspects of nature. And one of one of the things that got me thinking about doing a show like this, I was hunting elk in Montana and it was the very first time I saw a wolf. And I'm I'm walking, I see this wolf. It was thirty yards away. And at this point this is before you saw wolves, and you know, yeah, this is like, I mean, I was a static. I've never seen a wolf in my life and this was awesome and it's just kind of looking at me. I get my video camera out, I'm like trying to film it and cool. I saw a wolf today. So I go and I've been This was in the Bittteret Valley in Montana. Don't remember what year it was. I can think it was, uh two thousand and two, yeah, something like that, maybe two thousand, yeah, two thousand and you know. And so I see this wolf and I and I've been hunting this specific bull elk. I passed up a lot of elk. I was hunting one big bull that was behind my place. So I see the elk out on this far ridge. So I walk around and I get set up and I'm on the back side of this ridge and the herd elks there. Well, sure enough, here comes the wolf finding the same elk. And I only saw the one, so I don't know if he was just hunting alone, which a lot of people always talked about him hunting in packs. Most of the all the elk that I've witnessed get killed by wolves have been single wolves. Never seen a pack attack wolves. I've only I've seen four elk kill old personally just visually watched elk getting killed. They've all been by single wolves. No two cows, tubols, two spikes, two cows tubles, and so anyways, the wolf goes and gets the elk running, and I'm like, damn it. And it's a hot early September days, but I thought, I just in my mind, I was like, I know this area so well. I know where those elk are going. And they had this up and down, up and down, up and down, and you watch them come up just after the first rise. Their tongues are hanging out there. I mean, you've you've seen it. You know, like they it's like running a horse up hill. They get tired fast. A lot of people, don't you think, like you could never catch up to an elk. And I thought, I'm just gonna run straight up this ridge and try to cut them off. So I literally started sprinting to the top and I get to where I mean it's probably I think it's five six miles away, but I just ran up to the top, took my route. I could see them going up and down the ridges, and I get to the spot where I think they're coming up, and they are dead tired by this point. They're walking, their tongues are hanging out the vein. You can see the veins in their face like they just looked gassed. And I stand behind a tree and all the elks start walking by, just looking about half dead tired. At probably the furthest or twenty yards, whip out my camera. I take a few pictures, and the bull never showed up. And I think what happened was because his antlers were so heavy, he took a different route he went down, because I ended up walking down and seeing two other bulls that were smaller, lower, But it just put into my mind at that point that's exactly how the wolf would hunted him. And I would have never thought in a million years you could catch up to her. Everybody says, once you spook elk, they're gone ten miles, you'll never ever find them again. People are right, but well and in a heavy timber it's fairly open open country, but they do get gas. I mean they don't have the ability to sweat like we do, or they're they're a large animal running in the heat up steep up and down steap mountains. Just by knowing the terrain and other things, I was able to catch up to him, and had the bull gone that route, I would have killed it. You know, I got some cool picture. I still have that picture on my fridges, like the first time and and then walking. Uh you know, so fast forward a few years. I was out guiding one day and I you know, as a guide you have to get really good at killing elk in a certain amount of time, so you know, like you can't mess up. You know where they hide, where they do this where you have to know them so well because each week we're killing to public land elk for ten weeks, which you just gotta be on it. So I know these elk pretty l and I have certain routes that I walk in certain mountains because I know where they perform. Like you look at the whole mountain, the elk will be in one spot. You know, you could be a million acres and they're gonna be on a hundred of it, and you get the sense that if you killed every elk on that mountain range and letting new elk come in, they would do the same. Right. And I have a certain way that I walk this ridge because I know the way that the thermals go in the morning, the winds, the way that I can come in through the trees and be hidden at this point where they like to bed. Then I walk up and new this. So I'm walking my route which has worked forever, and I see some wolf tracks and it surprised me. The wolf was hunting that mountain the exact same route that I take. So here's another hunter that hunts every day. And it's like I figured out something like it's it was just like we are so similar we hunt. He knows where these elk bed two, he knows the route, he knows, and we're hunting them in the exact same fashion. It was crazy to me, and so I started thinking about it, thought, Okay, what other animals can we learn from or annulate? Like if if I had just watched how the wolf did things, I would probably come to the conclusion that took me ten years to figure out this route, And here he's hunting every day. He has this knowledge, and as predators, we do things in a very similar way. And so I thought, what other animals are out there that I can learn from? What tactics can I take away from an alligator or a great blue heron or a river otter? And we we one time we're in Michigan's up and we watch river otters catching fish. Look what the hell they catch? It realized were catching giant perch out of this river. And then it went back and clock perch. We didn't never know about that. Spotts. Just yeah, I had no idea. And you probably see You probably see where the lines and the like. You know, fish will hold. It's the same even in the ever certain fish will hold certain currents. Because what I do a lot before I go. If I go to a new river, I put on snarkele and I float down the river and see visually where the fish are and how they're holding. And then I go and walk up that river, and I catched ten times the amount of fish because I know exactly where those fish are sitting, Like I know the seemed casting because you know where the big fish are in the river and other things. But even just by if you just watch the otter, like what what lines or is he taking because that's the line where the fish are holding, you can you can learn a lot. So how many so how many predators you like in an apex predator? How many predators you guys explore? So far we've done We've done six. And when we're talking about name, you know, I see it as looking at all of nature other things, not necessarily predators, because I think that there's prey animals that could I mean, think of our camouflage patterns and other things. I mean, it's not just humans are essentially an apex predator, and I first want to look at predators, but also take a look at other animals that necessarily may not be apex predators or or it could be predators could be non predators. But so far we've looked at the golden eagle, the wolf, the river otter, the great blue heron, and that Catlin painting about the wolf skins, which yeah, that's the famous Catlin painting. Words, uh he painted it cause two dudes, right, Indians hiding under wolf skins. And that you see that right there is looking and and that falls within the way that we're looking at it because obviously they observed animal behavior and figure it out a way to make it work for them. I mean, as you mentioned in that episode, the bison when they see an upright human, know that if they run, they're safe because the humans can't jim. But if they run from the wolf, the way the wolf hunts is by getting to run. If they stand there, the wolf want attack them because it knows it's outweighed, outmatched. So they saw, oh, when the wolves are there, the bison stand there, let's throw a wolf skin over our back and then we can spear them or shoot them with our bows or whatever. Yeah. I know that, Like that has to be just like direct observation, direct observation. Yeah, and then there's the thought of, well, the first episode was the Alligator and and that one, like, so what days APEX on Thursday eight p m. Yeah, so it's say, I feel like it's the same slot it is. So that's what I'm just riding your way. It was not on the air right now. APEX is on there you guys only run one. It's probably on repeat a little bit. Yeah, it's uh eight, and then it's sometime in the morning. And then so you did the Alligator One, which as cool as hell the alligator and then this week talk about that talk about like like in the Alligator one, like Remy hangs outs. People who know a lot about alligators, they kind of talk about their stress. How would you describe an alligators hunting stress? I I describe an alligator strategy as there they're a lion weight predator. But the way I see it is they're a living trap that goes and sets themselves. It's it's just like what I could relate their hunting strategy to the best is either trapping or stand hunting. They aren't uh a spot in stock type animal. They like where a lion sees the prey, sneaks in and kills it. The alligator is just based on patients and that's something Western hunters like myself do not have. I have happy feet when you can go a hundred miles if you if someone's like, you can go a hundred miles if you wanted, and you're gonna go a hundred miles to my own well, I shouldn't say to my own detriment because it makes me happy. Yeah, but at times to my own detriment as a guy that wants to be a successful hunter. I walked too much. But then I can't be like what, I should be less happy? Right, I should be less happy and walk less. It's like I just like the right. But anyways, yeah, they don't gators. The gators don't. And then so we set up the task. The way the show is is we set up I wouldn't even call them challenges because what I'm trying to do is learn from the lens of that animal because originally, well, you know, when you're starting a new show, You've got these ideas in your head of how it's gonna work out, and it just doesn't ever happen like that. Especially let's go try to grab a pig with our hands, with my hands in the swamps of Florida, and the focus was on the task of grabbing the pig, and what it turned out to be was learning from the alligator. And yeah, that should be the point. What am I trying to learn here? Because it was about the patients, It was about setting the trap and really blending in with the environment. Because the way the show works is we look at the animal and then we go and do what I like to call the training aspect, or the human comparison aspect where we compare humans to that animal. Why can the alligator lay in the water right what so long? And his vision is good? And like what makes it that you can't lay in the water like that? Yeah, you was like freezing your ass off. Yeah, you think about it. Humans can get hypothermian seventy degree bathwater, which is you think about uh, yeah, right now, you do. Your body does degreat and is when we did the test with the broad jump and and the body temperature, your body temperature goes down pretty fast and you lose your heat quickly. You lose your full physical potential within five minutes. IM not saying that you can perform the task, but you aren't. What you where the alligator can sit, They sit out all day and they can conserve that energy for hours and hours and hours because they have a slow heart rate, they're cold blooded, so they heat up and then they and they essentially assume their environment. And that's a lot a lot of this show. I find things that are very similar between animals that kind of put into the perspective of me as a human of how to assume the environment and be more natural. You think about you ever be out hunting and an animal just like looks in your direction or whatever and it knows you're there, And you think, how does this animal even know? They can't register, right, And I think it has a lot to do with how even even walking, Like there's certain people that walk through the woods and the animals start running, or another person that could walk through the woods and it doesn't bother them. And I think it's a lot of how you meld into your environment and kind of kind of movements, the how familiar are with with the area in the land and other things. But but there's a lot of things that I've noticed throughout predators that I wouldn't have noticed without doing us. And a lot of it is just go ending with your environment being comfortable, and a lot of things about us as humans that, oh man, we actually are a lot better at some of these things with if we we could train to do it as well as some of these other animals. Yeah, like you guys, Wolf episode, when's that coming up? That's coming? Yeah, that's not this next one, but the following. So this Wolf episode, Remy's exploring the idea of of chase the elk like a wolf does. Just like that you just get on them and just go and go and go and go and go and eventually can and Remy goes into this place to test is uh v I T max max Like how well you It's like, how will you take in process oxygen? Right? Yeah, it's it's yeah, it's your It measures your endurance capabilities. It doesn't necessarily measure how it's just like your your endurance potential. So what you can potentially do if you trained up to it, like how well you can pull into restore depleted muscles doctor exactly? Yeah, and where your where your body goes in and you had a good score. But the dude, but then the dude tells you what a wolf has and it's yeah, you can't you can't even compare to it. It's like you're just not gonna right, You're not going to compare. You never going to run like a wolf. But I start breeding that into you. I guess at what is like what was yours? What's the wolfs? Remember my VO two max was like eighty three point three and the wolves can be over three hundred. But then you see the other thing that I learned though, is some of the stuff, a lot of it's just genetic or because the eight three point three I guess they did. Like Lance Armstrong was like eighty six while he was blood doping or something like that. Like it's in mine just so happened to be naturally high. It's just like in the top probably one percentile of people. But I think that's pretty genetic because my family's I'm just in a family of Durrance type athletes. Even like my grandma's finished iron Man's over the age of fifth. Yeah, now she's like seventy now, but she still she still goes every year for her birthday, she goes and hikes this we hike this big mountain. Just like she'll do that forever, I would think, as long as she can. But a lot of it, Yeah, and then there's aspects where you can't even compare to these animals. But we have the advantage of it all comes down to our brains. We can devise ways to improvise. Where these animals have to rely on their natural ability, we can kind of we can strategize exactly, borrow things, create things, and try to outthink things. You like to think you could out smart an elk or deer. Sometimes it's a lot harder than then you anticipate. I think it's a big part of hunt. I think that what's the show demonstrates to me like a type of reverence for wildlife. But I think it's essential for a hunter and a half. Like I I'll talk about my old man earlier, like we would have you know what we were supposed to shoot and didn't shoot. And um, he's been dead a long time. I remember, like he was. He has such a like myopic vision about wildlife that if it wasn't a game bird, it was a tweetie bird, right, no fault to him. Like he didn't grow up in a hunting you know, he invented hunting for our family. You know, he didn't grow up in a hunting household. He was raised by the Italian immigrant grandparents, you know, like they just like the last thing on their minds appreciating wildlife to live in Chicago, trying to make ends meet. Very modest upbringing during the Depression. Right, So he didn't learn that, Like I try to teach my kids to like really love wild life, you know, And I haven't introduced him to the idea of that there's desirable and non desirable. You know. It's like learn your birds love wild life. Like a lot of hunters. Man, it's like really easy to get in that sort of like good guy, bad guy attitude. I remember I duck hunt with some guys and they had in their mind there was mallards and there's a term scrap duck, you know which I think it's like a it's disrespectful. Yeah, it breeds a sort of disrespect to be that um like, oh if you if if there's no use to me, right, if this species is of no immediate used to me as a hunter, it doesn't warrant my observation. Yeah, And I think there is that approach, but how many I think a lot of hunters. Well maybe I'm just talking about myself here, but I love every aspect of being out there. It's not just that one animal. It's hunters a lot. It's hard to explain to non huns because hunters love animals. I've always admired animals. That's the reason that I started hunting, because I liked animals so much. But for me, it was I remember being a kid flipping through those animal cards or animal fact sheets like I would collect them. I would My thing was animals. I loved figuring out what they did, how they lived. And that's why when I got into hunting, it was I could become a part of their system. And that's what really felt cool to me is I liked the idea of when I first went out hunting, almost this feeling of when I shot a bird, it was now it was now my bird that I was a part of. Like the birds are out there, I could see the animals at a distance, but now hunting it put me in that situation where that bird is now mine. Now I can eat that bird. And it was just this cool feeling of being a part of it, like immersed, not just looking at so hard to explain. No, I was recently having this conversation I was out hunting with the first time hunter, and I was explaining that, um, that upstore of the opposite of a Buddhist, you know, because what I do like I interested. I try to be interested in all animals. I try to study all animals. But I always it always for me, And just like Apex Predator the show, it always winds up being like sort of like coming back around to in some way me, like what does it mean for me? Like I love a piece of information that when you hear pintes, like you, like, if you're not a hunter, you might be out in the woods and here pine squirrel chattering, pine sculs chatter, and and I hear it. But what I hear is that pine squirrels pissed about something. And he might be pissed about something far away. And I mean, he's not pissed about me. Something is pissing that thing off. It could be I've heard him mark out. They really bark at bears, right, So, like you hear that, and that's like sending a message to me. So I'm interested in pine squirrels. I've eating them, but I don't like hunt pine squirrels. I'm interested in pine squirrels. I want to know everything I can know about them. I was fascinated to hear that they're a big predator of snowshoe hairs, when leading snowshoe hair predators whiter, and that when they chirp, they're pissed at something and it's not a noise you should ignore. It was an animal over there making him real mad. So I love them for their own sake, but I do internalize it in some way where I'm like, Okay, I like this animal, but what does he mean to me? What does he mean for mean the same way I have many times found dead animals and other interesting things by just observing, Like you see a bunch of ravens up and tree circling around getting all excited, probably some I'm dead laying over there. I have a multi tool that I still own that I was just watching a bunch of ravens once and walked over there and found, you know, four four moose hoves in a multi tool. Yeah, some dude like gut into moose and left his multitol land there. And so I'm like, yeah, I dig ravens. I liked their body language and and and and you know, I just can't help but personalize it and apric predators cool because like it just it acknowledges that, like you look at one like Heron's, you know, what is what is the heron doing when he's staying it out there? Like why? Like how does he do what he does? Yeah? So I'm saying mean, it's like you look at it and it just is a reasonable question, like how does he do what he does? And the other thing is you look at the heron and he just how different does that bird look than other birds quite a bit different, Like why is he look like that? Where? What what process made him the largest? What process made him like? And you look at the way and sometimes you look like I always thought my assumption of the heron and just a naive assumption that I would see him when I'm out fishing, and I always just on the heron's And so one of the reasons I wanted to do the heron is because I remember seeing that burden, thinking like as a as a kid, going it's it's a dinosaur. It looks crazy. And then as a fisherman, how many times you're out there seeing her and you you almost kind of curse the hero and like he's taking your fish because you see him as like, it's so easy. If I could just go spear these fish, I would have like I would and I've got this rod and I'm having trouble catching fish, and I look over and this heron's got a five pound trout watchings throat. It's about to die, you know, and you look at it, and I always I had this naive assumption that the heron, it was easy for the heron, He's just spear these fish and he could pretty much have his pick like he was taking my fish. He barely had to work for it. So I kind of almost I liked them, and I thought, wow, that'd be cool to be able to do. But I almost had this as a fisherman, this weird. Oh he's he's My friends that were big trout fisherman. They'd carry a pistol to shoot at river rotters and and and so doing this, I go okay. So that my assumption going into the heron episode was Oh, this is a crazy I'm just gonna be up there and spearing fish. And then I started watching. I really started looking at the herons, and most of the things they were eating is just small, like they were scrounging for their food. And then I go and attempt to be like the heron, which seems ridiculous, as like I put some stilts on and get in the river, and I had so much trouble it wasn't even funny. And I realized, I see why the heron is scrounging for food because it's not easy. It's life is not easy. It's a big body bird that has to catch a lot of food in difficult situations. So they will catch anything exactly. I mean they spend all day, a lot of times all night just trying to scrounge up a meal. And when I thought it would just be this crazy mission of going out there and having all the advantage, you realize, okay, this is the heron's life. And then I learned a lot of things on Okay, Yeah, you have to be patient, you have to pick your spot well, you have to take advantage of opportunities. Yeah, used to like a washing machine, how they have the tub for afraid to tub a washing machine? He just pulls steel ones pull the steel tubs and used to make him out of steel and just set in the water with a couple of bricks in it. If you guys are hearing, like what sounds like just a constant scratching and rattling. That's that's Dark Durn playing with his headset trying to the coff into the microphone. All right. So my man had this these steel washed up and he used him for a live well. So we just set it in the water and put a couple of bricks in a bottle to keep them float away. And as we caught bluegills on our dock where I grew up. We'd throw them in the live well and then when there was enough to bother scaling him and flat him'd scaled the flamm It's per phrase. They're getting aeration, you know. And Herron's used to land way down the beach and pull a painstaking stock on that on live well. They never just got like they never understood there. They're like they laying way down and they just starts sneaking and sneaking and sneaking to get up wet bluegill, you know. Fun to watch man. Yeah, but they had to like reach over the edge, you know, to get down in there. But they pick it up the vibration from the fish or something, you know. Yeah, I think that they have almost like polarized but he's not scenes, he's not seen, so they're underneath under the water, perfect steal top. But I feel like they would I don't know, they would just steal the vibrations with their feet or something. They would. Yeah, they didn't know that those fish were there, because that's what even in the muddy water, there's a lot like the Herons would actually walk and kick up small prey and then they essentially jab where they thought, oh it's going like a bone fish does they just kind of like push things up with their feet and then as they felt to swim away, go for it. But it's a lot. They also have to deal with things that we have to deal with as well, like water refraction and and and other things that make it hard spearfish underwater when you're above and then imagine not having good water visibility or clarity or low densities just makes it. It's a hard knock life for the hero. And when you think you look at him on the beach gun that mastard he is, he's got it made and it's not the case all the time. No, that's good stuff, man, Thursday's Thursday eight pm. Watch it. And then what's really cool is if you don't have television, Oh we forgot to say it's on sports, it's not. It's not the same network, same networks, same time. So if you I wonder you may be have Tevo meat eater, like maybe I wonder if it's on that time slaughter, if it's on the name, and it may just pop. It's probably on the name though. But if you are a meat eater fan, which most people listening I imagine are, you can just tune into the same same BAT time, same bat channel. And if bugs want to check you out on Twitter, Facebook, what should they do at Remy Warren or Apex Predator TV. But see, I'm I'm more of a non traditional media user myself traveling all the time, like to watch stuff on Netflix, internet based stuff. So the bonus part is if you don't have the network or you don't have TV, you can go to Apex Predator dot tv and just click on by the episode or the season and the time it airs that x HX deal. So when it airs on Sportsman's channel like that week, you get it in your inbox so you can go. You don't have to wait till the end of the season. But like med Meat Eater dot vh X dot TV, go to Apex Predator dot TV. That's it, yep, and then it'll there's the link for the vh X. It's all right there and you get it and it'll I think it downloads it for eight thirty pm. You get you can download. Can you buy a single episode? You can buy a single episode or I'm pretty sure you can get the seats checking out and you don't have to wait till the end. You just oh, Yeah, while everyone else is watching it, you just wait thirty minutes boom, got it. For those that don't don't have television, which there's probably quite a few out there that don't, Yeah, it's worth that. You'll learn that much worth of stuff. Yeah, definitely. If you want to see those old meteor episodes with Remy and Steve in that sweet New Zealand country we're talking about, you can go to meat Eater dot those checks dot tv and it's in volume three, Or if you go to the meat eater dot com you'll find links to go find and download those episodes. Yeah, and we sell like meatias are up in these little blocks of they're all on one block, the New Zealand by all the New Zealand shows, and you'll be able to see like a lot of the stuff we covered about New Zealand. It's kind of like if you watch those all together, you'll kind of get you know, you'll get the kind of you'll get the pictures. Those are some of my favorite episodes that just the visual it just looks awesome. Oh and then crossing the River was pretty sweet. I rewatched those ones all the time. I'm like that other great man we had a mo. Yeah, he diamond done a good job. He's like just a great, great cinematographer and he shot those episodes that are beautiful. Man, we shouldn't have tieden that rope to you, but I don't care. We did it, gone and done it. Yeah. Step one, never tire yourself to a rope across the river. I don't know litel tale all right. Concluding thoughts Yanni. Oh, Yanni's got his Hunt to Eat T shirt on go to um, go to what is it? Hunt to eat dot com? Go buy one of Yanni's T shirts Hunt to Eat dot com. Thank you, that's realness. Concluding thought Reby, I'm gonna go by Hunt Deep T shirt and then are you really? Yeah? I like this one, y'all. He never has him in stock. He sells them out faster they can print them. They look pretty soon. We have we have something that hopefully by the time this this podcast airs the back tomorrow will be back in stock yet dot com by no buy Yanni's T shirts and then because then Yanni's gonna take all of his money and invested in well Front the bicycles and and uh fantasy football or baseball, and then he's gonna come out in New Zealand. Concluding thoughts, Yeah, I mean if you don't worry about Yanni, don't worry about Yanni hunting. Oh, I'm not worried because he Yan used to be a hunting guy that he came to work with us. But the other day we had a day off, just all got a turkey. See, I don't he don't worry about that. If you have not seen apex print, you have to check it out and you can do so on apex Printer, got TV or Sportsman Channel. So what's the website though, apex Prader dot TV, www dot apex Prader dot tv. Easy, Yeah, anybody can remember that. And then obviously if we've got My favorite thing about the show is our web videos. If you want to have a good laugh or see something crazy, you have to check out our web video. You have to go check out some content. You can see what Remy looks like. We've got some good I am not married, Remy is still in the market. I am single. Wow, ladies, you know what, but that's that's what you get when you travel around seven. I just turned thirty a few weeks ago. Do you have a large investment portfolio. Yeah, I've got a large portfolio. He's got a huge investment portfolio. Single for freezers, for freezers, good looking kids, doug dogs, married dots. I'm excited about this deal on the Apex Predator because I don't have cable anymore, and so I'm did you buy one of Yanni's T shirts? Yeah, that's the next thing I'm doing to XL. You know, we have a dozen stocked stock, same price the other on. It doesn't cost any extra to be a big guy. So it's dollars plus three bucks to buy one of Remmy shows. Bucks you'll be looking good and watching good. All right. That's it. I don't have any concluding thoughts. Michael Cluey thought is, um, we get a lot of people who are always uh um righting in to ask like a good bang for your buck elk hunt because they want they live in the East, they might to go out and do an elk hunt. Check out Rammy two for that. You know, good elk hunts, affordable elk khunts. I'm pretty pretty jam packed, all right. Don't go talk to Remmy, but just go out and if you go out and hunt ducks. Plays coming from the bank went from the backside and shoot giant. Wait until the ducks place. Go to the boat. Uh, go with the boat and hunt weekdays. You have your placed yourself. No one's gonna hear nothing, say nothing, all right, kids, thank you for listening.