00:00:07 Speaker 1: As a guide and hunter. I've spent thousands of days in the field. This show is about translating my hard won experiences into tips and tactics they'll get you closer to your ultimate goal success in the field. I'm Remy Warren. This is cutting the distance. Welcome back to the podcast everyone. This week we're gonna be talking about October mule deer. In my opinion, it's one of the hardest times to hunt mulder out west. Why is that because the tactics seem to always contradict themselves. It's at time when the mule deer vanish and disappear between being bachelored up in the rut. They just ghost you. They're hard and difficult to hunt. So if you were to ask me, well, are the dear high or low? Honestly the answers both. And if you said should I focus on cover or the open, once again both Should you glass or bush stock? The answers both. So this week we're gonna even odds on October mule deer by sharing this now open secret of using contradictory tactics that effectively put you in a terribly good position for success. But before we do that, I want to share the most successful unsuccessful hunt I've had for October mule deer. Now, this hunt took place last season. It was on over the counter meal your Tag during the middle of October. The reason a lot of those over the counter tags are during October is because it's difficult to find dear, so game managers know they aren't gonna all get shot out because there's gonna be a lot of people that don't even see bucks or something that they're allowed to shoot. Now, on this particular hunt, I had my dad and my at the time pregnant wife joining me. We decided to go. We we had a kind of like a long weekend that we were going to go and do just a fun hunt together. It was kind of planned as like, I mean, some hunts you're like thinking, or at least me, I'm thinking, I'm here to find the biggest best dear I can, or other hunts I'm like, I'm gonna go deep and just hunt it hard for a week and this is this is But this hunt, it was just kind of like I wanted to get out. I wanted to hunt with my dad, hunt with my wife, and if we saw some deer, great, We're just there to have a good time, and I think that there's you know, there's always a lot of different reasons why we're out hunting, but we weren't going to be super picky. It's mostly about having a fun camp, enjoying the experience together, and getting out. So with that mindset, I found a pretty sweet camp spot. Um this place, there's actually some hot springs around, so I was like, Oh, let's camp where the hot springs are. We can we can then kind of like hot tub in the evening and hunt during the day. So we we we set out for just a couple days, go in there, get the tent set up, and uh, of course a big storm rolls in, which you're like, oh, this is gonna be good. But the area we were hunting pretty low deer densities. I'd hunted in there before, and I actually I hunted pretty hard. I did shoot a really big buck, but I m also didn't see a lot of deer, so I knew that that was a possibility, and I even though I had a tag, I was like pretty much thinking, I'm I'm up to bat last. So I really wanted to get my dad or my wife a deer. So we end up starting out going into some of that, checking a few of the areas where I had seen deer before, and so we hike up in there first day and you just getting into the zone like getting back in their wife did, I mean, actually my entire wife's pregnancy. She was like a hiking beast. I think, like, I don't even know how many months in she had a deer hunt, lasted essentially a nan just getting after it. But she can just she can always hike. I don't know, She's probably better hiker than me. And my dad's in great shape. So we decided to just go pretty much straight up the mountain, get into the zone pretty quick in an area where it was kind of on the edge of a burn and and some timbered stuff, and it just looked so good, and I'm thinking, man, this is this is the spot. My wife and I scouted it early season. We went in there in the spring, we went in there in the summer. We were just it was loaded with deer. So we get in there and start glassing, hunting and just not turning anything up. No no animals. We see a little bit of fresh sign saw ilk um. There's actually the elk season was open as well, but we didn't have elk tags and just no deer. Doing everything we know that's right, glassing looking kind of covering ridges. So what we're doing, we're just we're moving down some of these ridges in the burn, glassing into different basins. It was overcast that day and just not turning up any deer. So and I think that first day we saw one white tailed dough and that was it, just glassing it like down in the bottom. So, uh, the second day we go out a different spot, I way back into this perfect base and get set up glassing. Everything's good, is actually snowing, the snow clears. It's like, in my opinion, the best opportunity you would ever have to find an October milier. That weather is popping off. They're going to come out and feed, and we're in the zone. We're on the edge of the thick timber, a little bit open where they can feed. We're doing everything right and just could not, for the life of us, turn up a deer, started a little fire, roasted up some sandwiches, and uh, one thing we were just we're just having a good time together. It was it was everything we wanted and the only thing thing we needed was to add to pepper and some deer. And it was like, yeah, great area. You know, I hadn't seen any bucks, I hadn't seen any deer. So the next day was our last day, and like, all right, we're gonna go back to this other area and see what we can find. It's just one of those things you're thinking, man, I haven't seen anything, but I know the deer here. So we switch up tactics. We're going into place we can glass. We decided now we're going to go into places where you can't class, those really thick pockets where the deer should be bedded and hanging right on the edge of actually a place where I had gotten into some deer a couple of years earlier. So we go in there and on the way up like a hundred and I would say, two yards off the trail and something catches my eye. I look and there's a bedded meal dear dough and she blended in so good just watching us walk by. And that was immediately clicking my brain, going, this is why we aren't seeing them. They're just bedded tight, like they aren't moving around. They're they're in these little pockets and they don't want to be seen for whatever reason. They are tucked in tight. So we're like, okay, this is what we're looking for. We finally found the target animal. Now we just got to find a buck. So my dad and I go up keep cruising up to the top and we get to the top and it's like this flat, little basin kind of thing, and it's just thick and there's a little bit of burning there, but it's mostly just timber. So we just start bush stalking through it, get the wind right and checking all these little benches and just similar places to where we had seen that dough and just every little pocket moving over going glassing it than even just glassing close. So we get up to the tops of the evening what would be our last day of this long weekend, and just um, we're glassing this, like just walking and glassing in front of us, probably three yards and most you can see. All of a sudden, my dad goes buck, like what okay. We get down and sure enough it's just an antler tip in an ear of a buck on this ridge, bedded up. And this is the evening, like when you'd expect dear to be walking around. So they're like, all right, man, this is it. Get my dad set up and there's a little bit of brush in the way, so I'm like, all right. I helped him dial up a scope three yards and we're like, he's betted. But all you can see at the top of the deer. So I was thinking, well, we could try to get him to stand here, but it's shooting through a lot of stuff. So I screwed over and I've got a clear view. And at this point I think the deer had heard something because he's now pretty alert on us. I'm like, all right, keep on him, let's keep watching him. And then we decide how we don't have a good shot here, so my my dad crawl up just a little bit and move over. I think you'll have a good Like where I was sitting, I could have shot him in his bed, and then in that way if you stood up to I think you'd have a clear shot. Everything is good. So my dad grabs his stuff. This buck was so keyed in, I mean we were we dropped their packs everything. He grabs his pack to move that buck gets up on a dead run away from us. It was such a heartbreaker because you know, we hiked a lot. We put in some time. I mean not a lot of time, but a long weekend the time that we had. And here's the one buck that we find in the deep timber and he just blows out as fast as you can be and we think to ourselves, this is why October deer hunting can be so difficult. But we went back that night, got in the hot spring, had a great meal. I cooked up a elk tenderloin, some some tamali's that a friend had made over the fire, and it was just one of those like hunts that even though we came away with nothing, we remembered one how difficult it is to we got to enjoy the company of each other and just a hunt that That was the first time my wife, my dad and I it hunted together like that, and it kind of reminded me of just those those hunts growing up as a kid, when we join up with family or whatever and be able to get out. It was just a cool experience because hey, we had a tag in our pocket and there's definitely an opportunity. We weren't successful, but I would say that the trip overall was a successful venture. And you might be thinking, well, that was a story. Why did you share an unsuccessful story of October meal you're hunting when you're teaching us how to be successful. And I think part of the reason I want to share this story is because one it contradicts, uh, some of the things I'm talking about contradictory tactics, and you'll understand it here in a minute. But the other thing is October meal that you're hunting can be tough. Now, I've found over the years through guiding, I mean, I've cut my teeth chasing deer this time of year when they're pretty much non existent in general type areas, and we've found some giant deer. I mean we've taken hundred ninety in type deer in general tags that have low densities and and not a lot of um, not a lot of big deer, you know. Over the years, I've I've found a lot of success, and a lot of that success is using these tactics that um kind of seam opposite yet work together. When you're talking about October mule here, I think we've got to first understand deer or at least bucks as a whole and kind of what they go through and why this October season seems to be the most difficult season to find them. So if you think about the growth cycle of of deer, they shed their antlers in the winter and then they start regrowing in the spring. Now, in order for a buck to regrow his antlers, it takes about the same amount of energy as a doe creating a fawn. So they're like, whoa, that's that's a lot of energy that they need to grow that rack. And while they're growing, their social structure is a little bit different. They're out in the open, they're feeding more. So that's why, like during the spring and through the summer, you tend to find mulder in certain types of habits at areas with lots of feed out in the open, and they tend to bachelor up because all those bucks are kind of doing the same thing. So they find this like safety in numbers game where they're in velvet. Their antlers are soft, they don't want to be going through so much brush and cover, and they also just need a lot of food. Most food, a lot of good brows is in those fringe areas of that more open kind of country, and then they've got some cover where they can get out of the sun. Now another thing to think about is it's hot, So they're generally in the summer up higher in those higher elevations. Not every area lends itself to like that alpine, but when you think of classic mule deer in velvet, you think of bachelor groups up in the alpine because they've got food, they've got safety, they've got kind of their whole pattern that they do, and it's all designed to kind of grow those antlers. Now we fast forward a little bit longer and they start to shed that velvet. They ripped velvet off, and then what happens well that that early September season they kind of stay together in those bachelor groups, but they've got their their antler's shed and they spend a little less time out in the open. It's like they're they're now don't need as much food, but they're still kind of used to, like, hey, summer was going, it was cool. Then as they kind of get into this October season, what starts to happen is those bachelor bucks start to split off for a couple of reasons. One, it's like they no longer need that safety because now they're going to use cover as safety. They're gonna split off and they're gonna be kind of solitary, and what they're doing during that solitary period is they're storing up their energy and bulking up for what is soon to be the rut. Because during the rut, there once again expending all that energy, but they aren't gaining energy. So it's kind of like growing their antlers, where it all goes into the growth of the antler during the rut, it all goes into rutting. And the ones that have the endurance, the strength they're those are the ones that are to breed. Those are the ones that are going to be successful fighting and cruising and finding dose and doing their thing. So you kind of think about this October time is like they split off there by themselves and they are essentially kind of like loners. They're they're doing their thing, but in a small area. Probably not you think like, oh, they'd be bulking up with a lot of food. That is true, but generally they've got like a smaller home range, a tighter area, and they're just kind of staying secluded where there's feeling protected and they don't necessarily show themselves as much. And that's what makes it very difficult when you're hunting because it's the one time a year where mualier aren't out. It's like I've literally gone to a place and seeing a hundred deer day in August, in a hundred deer day during the rut, and in October you struggled to even see a buck, and you're like, where do they go? Well, they're there, but they're hard to find. So generally, when I'm thinking about October, dear tag actics, the first thing I think of is go where they are, which is the timber. So tactic one is go to the timber. And the reason that is because we're thinking about their behavior and where they're at, so we're gonna hunt in those areas that they are now. Every you gotta have to when you're thinking about hunting, you've got to like break down the area you're hunting specifically based on like you choose your tactic for where you are. Now. If you're in an area that has a high alpine and you know that those deer in that alpine, the most logical thing is that those deer now going to be moving from that higher elevation to that first level of timber that maybe I would say like three thousand feet lower, depending on the elevation of the mountain range you're at, and they're gonna be in that more like that band of cover, and so you've got to um kind of think about, Okay, this is where I'm going to pinpoint those deer. They're gonna be out of that alpine and just a little bit lower. Now you're thinking like, well, you know, if I asked earlier, are they higher? Are they low? Well, when it depends on the area and to it depends on the type of country that you want to hunt, because the opposite side to that is also during that time looking lower. Like I guess, it just kind of depends on your framework reference. Are they higher, are they low? They might be lower than they were in the summer, but they might be higher than they are in the late fall when they come to rut. A lot of the running action is going to take place in what would be the foothills, the lower country if you've got that kind of classic low valleys, foothills, mountains, big mountains. The deer now going to be kind of hitting that area in between the foothills and the top of the mountains. So the foot side of that is check out the lower country, that area that's the fringe between where they're staging to breed. So you've got that stuff below the alpine, and you've got that stuff above the foothills, and you've got this kind of band where you can think of see it seemingly two opposite trains of thought. One you're going high when you're going low. Um. But in both those type areas are areas to concentrate for deer this time of year, and it really depends on the type of area you're hunting. Now, another thought is some of those deer will still stay high, so you go, okay, well, the deer or secluded, they're they're finding cover, and that is very true. But you will also still find deer up in that alpine country in those patches that provide that cover and food that haven't moved down that elevation. So it depends on the type of country you're hunting. I would say go high if there's good cover high like if it's not here, just like open alpine. If you've got good habitat and good structure for them to stay safe, and the general area where they breed is not super low, then you're gonna catch them high. If on the flip side, your area is a little bit lower elevation, like it just doesn't have that that high alpine, then I would go low and kind of catch them on that fringe of where the does. Like you'll be going up into an area and you'll see does everywhere, and you're like, this is a nursery, right, It's just does does does, does, does, and maybe a little forky bucks, but you don't see any mature bucks. So you gotta think those bucks are going to be in a higher elevation than that nursery, in that kind of low type of train. So when looking for October meal deer, you're both gonna go high and you're gonna go low. It's that high country and that low country depending on the type of area you're in. And sometimes if an area has both of that, both those type of areas can be very successful and productive. It just depends on the type of whether it's recently received and kind of where the does and other deer staging. So the next tactic is going to be both focusing on the type of cover. So we're gonna focus on cover and then the other the flip side of that is to hunt open country and you'll see why in a second. So, like I talked about, we gotta think about, well, what are the deer doing. Well, they're going into more cover, their feelings secluded. So you think yourself, well, that's a perfect place to hunt. Yes, hunting the cover is a perfect place to hunt. But when you in actuality, when you look at a mountain, you go, wow, there is a lot of cover here, and I'm essentially looking for a needle in a haystack. And that's what it feels like sometimes on these October deer hunts, when it's like man, you know, sometimes some earlier in the season it was like clockwork, we could come out here and find deer, and now where did they go? So the answers they're probably in cover, But the hard part is it's really hard to effectively hunt that cover. So on the flip side of we know they're in cover, a good tactic is also to hunt the open. You think, well, they aren't in the open as much, and that is very true, but the deer that are there are easier to find. So it's kind of a catch twenty two where you're saying most of the deer in the cover, but the deer that are easiest to find are outside of that cover there in that kind tree that might be more open, or that more open country where I can limit the amount of cover is easier to find deer. I go back and forth when it comes this time of year to the places that I hunt. It is a lot easier to find deer in those more open areas because there's you're still focusing on cover, but you're looking for the open areas because there's less cover for the deer to hide in and it's easier to catch them in the open. On the flip side, a majority of the deer will be in that thicker cover terrain, the stuff. Even if it's open country like Nevada mule deer type country, they're gonna be in that thick mahogany band. They're gonna be in that PJ this time of year, they're gonna be in that stuff that's really thick. And that's if the majority of the deer in that, that's your best odds for finding a really mature buck because he's probably going to be in that country that is the safest for him from hunters. Because in these areas where there's general tags, the ones that are in the zier places to find generally get shot, so they don't get the age, they don't get the maturity. If you're looking for a true giant in a general tag, you want to hunt deep pockets. They're full of cover, and so that's why I would say both focus on cover and hunt open country. Um, you've got a little bit of both options. Now, when it comes to the tactic for hunting October meal deer, I would say there's two options glass, hard or bush stock, And I would say that both tactics are what you want to do. You want to do this combination of covering through country, covering through that cover, so moving through those pockets, moving into those timber pockets, moving in those ridges that are hard to glass. But then also, honestly, this time of year is really about covering country, so you have to do it every way you can. It's with both glassing and still hunting and moving covering those ridges and areas where it's like it takes you into that cover where the deer are probably going to be, but also allowing you to look over a lot of different country and catch those deer that are moving between cover. Catch those deer that might be out. Maybe they're just cruising to a new pocket or getting ready to stage, or those deer that it's like, hey, I'm out in the open. I live in open country, so we're gonna glasses. So generally my October deer hunt strategy looks like this. I get up and I start my morning on a glass knob. So I will get up there and I'll find an area that I can overlook a bunch of different places where it's like timber, pocket, feeding sage, open country where it's like this is mule deer habitat prime muled, your habitat like glass, you know, if it's like aspen type country, I glass the edge of those aspen trees in the morning the ridge is I'm really just picking it apart. And then as the day progresses, I kind of start moving and changing my tactic. I don't really sit still when it comes to to over deer because I know that the more I move around, the higher likelihood to have of finding what I'm looking for. Now, there's a lot of people that can be very successful this time of year just knowing, Hey, I know the deer use this basin. I see the sign. I'm gonna sit here and wait until that deer comes out, and they might sit four or five days glassing and looking, and then sure enough the deer comes out. I just personally that's not my hunting strategy or tactic, and it does work, but it it just drives me crazy, like I just lose that patience. So what I like to do is then um, move up the ridges and find those betting areas, those thick pockets where I believe deer will be, and then going between glassing points. So I'll move up upper ridge or whatever, glassing along the way looking for deer, and then when I get into a new pocket, sitting and glassing. Now, I do know that when you get into these new pockets that look good, you're really doing yourself a disservice to to judge that pocket based on what you're seeing that is not morning or evening. During October time, deers spend a lot of time betted, and if the moon's weird, if it's got like a full moon or something like that, they might even spend the evenings betted. They might only be out in the morning or the evening, just depends on on how they're feeling, the type of weather or whatever, so they aren't going to be out very often. So you really when you find a good spot where you're seeing a lot of sign, you're like, this pocket's good, it's good for glassing. You then judge that pocket based on the right time to day, not the middle of the day. So it's something to think about. But then the rest of the day I spend cruising that timber, still hunting, because I will catch deer moving in that timber, find them in those little pockets. I'm looking for sign both tracks and you know, scat and whatever. Even sometimes you'll start to see some some initial rubbings where it's like, hey, they're kind of marking out their turf, they're cruising around, they're they're preparing for the rut, both mentally and physically, I guess um and and so the way that I like to structure my hunt is glassing in the mornings, moving throughout the day, uh, finding like new areas where it looks like, okay, this is another good glassing spot. Glassing it because you will oftentimes turn up deer even out in the open in the daytime. Maybe they're betted or whatever. But looking for those betted deer, then continuing moving through cover bush stocking, and then getting to in the evening set up posted up for more glassing, and that I found is probably the most successful way by combining all those things like understanding where the deer might be and deciding okay, high or low, which it could be, both deciding whether to focus on cover or more open where they're in the cover, but the more open might be more successful. And then doing the combination of glassing and still hunting, you're covering the most country the most efficiently, and that's the best way to find some of the hardest deer to find during this time of year. I hope this helps you guys find some success us. If you got that October Dear tag, I definitely want you to send me some pictures keep me posted on your success. I've had so many awesome already, a lot of guys being successful using some tactics, some stuff from last season. I know, I know some I got. I did get a few comments people wanting like like, I want this October Dear stuff in September, in the September elk stuff in August, and I understand that you know, being able to prepare for it a little bit better, but also I like to kind of do things that are topical when we're doing it. There's a lot of guys creising out this weekend, UM, and maybe this tactic when they're fresh. I feel like they also help a lot too. So in the future, I'll try to get ahead of some of the some of the tactics. You know, we'll talk a little bit about some late season ELK tactics, some good rifle tactics. One thing that I did get a lot of questions on was just UM talking about gear and we do I generally would break up, UM. You know a lot of the podcast. I guess like in the in the quote unquote schedule, UM doing kind of a gear dump thing, and we haven't done one for a while, so I always think that that's fun. It's kind of one of those things like I I mean, I I'm fortunately I get to try a lot of gear and use a lot of gear, and so gear I definitely have a I feel like I can talk forever about gear. Hunter. You get two hunters in the same room together, dude, it's just like gear talk City. That's all it is. UM. Maybe we'll do a little bit of gear stuff to you, just for the people that have asked for it, and then once again, you know, feel free to to send out your comments the best ways at remy warrant on Instagram, um or even I've been checking the YouTube stuff a little bit more as well. I've got some pretty awesome hunts that we've been I just did I should probably it's kind of fun to talk about like recent hunts. I know a lot of the the stories and stuff have been from past on summer recent hunts. It's it's actually just had an incredible moose hunt. It was really fun, um kind of fun to talk about different species too. You know, I think about since like you get pigeonholed into elk and deer and yeah, it's it's hard to get a moose tag or whatever. But it's like, I've actually got more questions about moose tactics than um than late season elk tactics. So uh, you know that that might even just steer the conversation there. But it's been it's been a pretty I've had like a pretty incredible season so far. I did have one hunt it was just kind of like a i don't know, man, like a beat down. You know those hunts where you put it all in, you put it all on the line. I added about two weeks in the back country for a sheep and um did not. Well, I'll let you out the videos coming out tomorrow. I guess it'd be Friday. Yeah, um yeah, I mean it's good. It's a cool watch. I'll put I'm actually I'll just put a link to it or on playlist on my remy war on YouTube channel. You can you can check that out if you guys want. But then after that, it was like super success of shooting the best bull I've ever shot. That video is going to come out pretty soon. And then going into this moose and and actually got a chance to hunt woodland cariboo, which has been a dream of mine. Like I it seems weird, but I love like the smaller species of species cou'se deer, blacktail deer, now Newfoundland caribou, um woodland cariboo from Newfoundland. I mean, I went from a string of like hard luck to a lot of success, and I think that's kind of fun to um, kind of fun to see, you know. It's like one of those things, man, I put in my time on one hunt and it's just been boom bang bop since then. So, um, yeah, you can keep up with all that or whatever, and maybe I'll share some of those stories as well. I really appreciate you guys reaching out and just I've got so many messages about people's like, hey man, this tactic worked for me. This is you know, I've hunted five years not been successful. Use some of your tactics came out on top this year. So that's what that. That just gets me stoked on it. Um, pretty excited for the stuff we got coming up. Hopefully it's good stuff for the rest of the season. And then, like I say, just keep me posted on how you guys do. I like to see that kind of stuff. It keeps me motivated when I'm like dead tired in between hunts. I mean, I'm I'm full on guide mode now. So um, A lot of these podcasts are done in the wee hours of the night, Like I get in at eleven, then uh, eat dinner than do a podcast that You would think it only takes thirty minutes however long there, but it takes me a little bit longer to kind of think about it and then get up at four am and then head out. You know, it's just like they no sleep time of year. But it's also I think that's some of the best time when it's like racking my brain of like the tactics that I'm using, and that's why I like to keep them fresh with things that are going on, because it's just like, oh, this is what I did today, and it's easier for me to talk about that way. It's like real life action and then you get a you get a benefit from that. But yeah, keep keep the conversation going both ways. Feel free to reach out to me on social media at Remy Warren. I appreciate everyone to that drops the comments in the um wherever you listen to the podcast, and then if you give it a good rating, that never hurts, share it with some friends, share it on social media, whatever you guys like to do. I appreciate it. And so until next week, let's just say keep it contradictory. That's a fun word to say, contracdictory. All right, see you guys. M

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