00:00:10 Speaker 1: From Meat Eaters World News headquarters in Bozeman, Montana. This is Col's Week in Review with Ryan cow Klah. Here's Cal. Oh my goodness, another packed week here at Cal's Week in Review. As you all know, we're double timing it these days. Brand spanking new CEO and President back huntry, Hunters and Anglers. This week traveled out to to d C to talk, talk with our representatives, talk with our electeds here and then in the nation's capital. Lots going on all across the political spectrum. I am very happy, uh and and honored to get some time from some extremely busy folks who happen to be the co chairs of our Public Lands Caucus, Representative Gabe Vasquez out of New Mexico and Representative Ryan Zinki out of Montana. Congressman, how are we feeling this week? 00:01:14 Speaker 2: But you know, I'm an optimist. Uh. 00:01:17 Speaker 3: You know, as much as sometimes the media would like to play that that that we don't agree on anything, we can't work together, that the world is as a partisan country, I can tell you when you're on the front lines, you know a lot of us, you know, like Gabe and I, we look at where we can meet and where we can get things done, and we kind of put the rest of it in the in the back and we may agree or disagree, but we're not going to be disagreeable. And we're going to look for areas we can work together on because that's how it starts. It starts on working together, trust relationship, and they and as co chairs, you know, we try to try to look at issue from all sides and look, what's important on the west is public lands. 00:02:05 Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know, I just got back from some RESTful hunting and fishing back home, got to go see my dad and brother in the beautiful community of San Carlos, got to go on an amazing hike and almost stepped on a coral snake, which you tend to almost run into a lot of snakes here, but never as venomous as a coral snake in Mexico. So there's a lot of land mines here, there's a lot of snakes here. You just got to learn how to traverse this place and how to make those blasting relationships, build relationships with folks across the aisle. You know, my staff's been working hard on the proposals that we plan to work on this year and we're making progress on those things now around us, does it feel like the world has fallen apart a little bit? Sure, there are lots of things that are going on. But one of the things that keeps me here, keeps me happy, is working on public lands issues. It is thinking about all those assets, those natural resources, the wildlife, the grasslands of the forest that I get to represent back home. And one of the coolest things about being back home is, you know, if I'm driving through the bed On Seals, or I'm driving through the Grandmother Mountains, or I'm driving through the Magdalenas, I say, wow, you know I have a role in managing all those landscapes. 00:03:24 Speaker 1: Did It's a question that I wanted to ask. 00:03:27 Speaker 2: Is it. 00:03:30 Speaker 1: Mentally refreshing, more relaxing, enjoyable when you get a block out some of the other issues to focus on the public lands wildlife side of things. 00:03:42 Speaker 3: Well, you know, I think for me, I have a passion about public lands and when we can when you can do something and be successful at something you're passionate about, it's rewarding. 00:03:54 Speaker 2: But also as a representative, I mean, you represent right. 00:04:00 Speaker 3: And there are a lot of good people in New Mexico and Montana that you know, were their voice in DC and on this issue, you know, we represent that we're going to fight every day to make sure their voice is represented. But this is a larger issue, you know, really quickly. You know, Montana is a different place than I grew up. When I grew up, you know, with no problem with public access, no problem with fences, very little activity out there in some of the definer hunting areas. But you know, over time we've seen a lot of development, a lot of fences go up, public access, you know, God bless Onyx. But public access is oftentimes not well known or not there. And then you have their urban rural wildlife quarters. You had a lot of issues that I think, you know, for those of us that benefited about one hundred years ago, of the great ones like Roosevelt who gave us the legacy. And now it's our chance to look at the next legacy of one hundred years and make sure we put in place, you know, management, whether it's a law or regulation, to make sure that we manage our greatest assets. I think of this country for the next hundred years. And that also is a son duty as a as a representative. 00:05:21 Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know, the Public Lands Caucuses really is really like a ven diagram. You know, you have a set of members that aren't going to agree on everything, but that little sweet spot in the middle of the things that we do agree on. We're going to have each other's back on those issues and whether they're management issues, public land sell off issues, access issues, which we have plenty of in New Mexico. I mean, one of the worst nightmares that you can have as a New Mexican is driving four hours out to the country and you don't know who to call, and you call it, you know, the Game Department, or you call the State Land Office and they say, well, you know it's going to take us a couple of days to get you in. Answer, well, that hunts a couple of days. So what are you supposed to do? Do you hump it on horseback? Do you try to get around that mountain and hope that you can make it around that fence? Legally, those issues continue to compound, especially in those rural, remote areas in the Bootheel, in the Heala National Force as well, where so much of the good hunting happens, and just recently, you know, with this proposal to sell off public lands. The map that was put out included this area called Otaro Mesa that is in southeast New Mexico, part of the district that I represent where I hunt barbary sheep every year. There's about four or five leases out there, the largest intact Chihuahwan Desert grasslands. 00:06:49 Speaker 2: I mean. 00:06:49 Speaker 4: The variety of bird species that are out there are amazing, and probably the only native herd of prong horn antelope in the entire state of New Mexico. When I saw that on that map and they told me that they're going to build apartments there, the population of that place is probably fifteen, I said, you've got to be out of your damn mind. And so as we see new threats emerge, as we see changing landscapes, you know, part of the work of the Public Lands Caucus is to identify those issues and to work on those things that we agree with. And right now, the most pressing thing, obviously is the proposed sell offs of public lands by certain actors here in this body. 00:07:29 Speaker 1: And Ryan, you know you're talking about your passion for public lands, Gabe, You're you're bringing up like the ability to bring grassroots knowledge, local knowledge up to this body that was really the impetus of the Public Lands Caucus. When you guys put your heads together on this, it's not old news at all, but I think an update is due. Is the Public Lands Caucus working, is it growing? Is your path Ash Representative Zinkie Well getting out to others well? 00:08:05 Speaker 2: I think, and good question sas education. 00:08:09 Speaker 3: You know, as a former Secretary of Public Lands, I subtracted, I added, I exchanged public land. But there's a process to it. We added Abnoso in New Mexico. We subtracted some land around La Crusis for a school district. We added federal land for public access. But there's a there is a way to do it. The first thing I had to do really quickly is is there a treaty involved? Now, I believe it or not, most of the of the West was occupied by a previous people, and there's a lot of treaties that then would honor their access for cultural, for ceremonial, for et cetera. So first you look at that land, is it involved in a treaty? And just because it's on a reservation now or an off reservation, doesn't mean the treaty doesn't allow that. So that's the first thing, and second thing, when you're gonna divest, are you going to divest surface rights, sub surface rights, and water rights? 00:09:14 Speaker 2: One or all? 00:09:15 Speaker 3: It makes a difference because you know, one is highest and best use of that land. And secondly, if you're going to divest it, it should be market value or for a better purpose in the case of you know, adding acreage for an airport or a municipality right. But on the in the case of of surface, that's generally pretty easy. Subsurface you gotta you gotta look at what you're selling because you know, critical minerals. 00:09:40 Speaker 2: To all that. And then you got to look at public access. 00:09:43 Speaker 3: Does does that sale that land restrict public access on another another piece of property? That's an important consideration, sure, And then you got to look at what's the purpose. If it's apartments, it's tens of acres, uh, but it's not it's not million acre ranchetts. So what's the highest and best use of it? But you know a lot of this has to be you know, thoroughly looked at. And then I haven't mentioned things. 00:10:06 Speaker 2: Like wildlife corridors. Yep. 00:10:08 Speaker 3: We spent a lot of time looking at and make sure we preserve the wildlife corridors, the next generation can have healthy herds. Well, that wildlife corridor may only be used during the winter range, summer range, or transit between, and that's got a consideration. So there's all these considerations, and I would agree that there's probably buildings. There's some property. I can nme one really quickly outside of Lima, Montana, is that there's forty acres that was going to be a Forest Service headquarters. It's in the middle of nowhere. It doesn't provide any wildlife. It's right next to a school. You know what, Jesus school would love to you, you love to use it. Okay, that makes sense to me. But you also have to involve the public. Yeah, that's right. And I think you know what. 00:10:54 Speaker 4: The first time I met New Mexico, home to the organ Mount Desert Peaks National Monument, and I was part of a sportsman's coalition that was helping him protect the integrity of the monument that it was just recently designated. And my congressman at the time in my district had a proposal to shrink that monument from about half a million acres to fifty thousand acres, and so to Representative Zinky's point about public input. He came out, had a listening session with the community, and he brought in a whole bunch of different stakeholders. In fact, he went on a hike with us out to one of the most remote parts of the monument. I remember a comment you said, and you said, who the hell is going to be hiking out here? So we took I will say we did put about forty or fifty veterans on that mountain. 00:11:43 Speaker 2: Just yeah, well, you know, but a voice. 00:11:46 Speaker 4: It was nice to serendipdipitously run into you. 00:11:51 Speaker 2: Well you were on the trail. 00:11:53 Speaker 4: But we sat around the table at a conference table and we were talking about the language in the Antiquities Act and how it actually protected uh and defined you know, objects of protection. And I remember discussing with you wildlife being an object of scientific importance and I don't believe you agreed with me at that time, And I said, you know, the Oregon Mountain chipmunk, it is really important because it's an endemic species. It's only in these areas. We got to protect it. Regardless, the Secretary did not shrink our National Monument, which I was very happy about, considering that our representative was pushing very much to to shrink it, and so that you know, I took away with that. Brian Zink's not a bad guy. 00:12:41 Speaker 3: But you know, your your model of having having people along the way. 00:12:44 Speaker 2: That was replicated at Cascade was replicated. 00:12:47 Speaker 3: That it was a good modelk you got one. 00:12:52 Speaker 2: You got to see a lot of people on the way. 00:12:53 Speaker 3: But but what it does tell you is that people are really passionate about our public land. And when I found in this last uh you know, public lands battle, I don't. I don't think the war's over by the way I think the I think the battle is. But there's a different perception of public land on the east and west. When we say, well, it doesn't affect the national parks, all right, well that's that's that's a fair point. Well, if you're in Tennessee, tell me what public land is there. Because the state land is their state parks. The public land is really the Smokies. So when you say well, we're not going to sell the Smokies, you know they kind of well, well, okay, well that's fine with me. And then out west, because they have so much West is so big. Out West is our legacy of the BLM. We can we can, we can agree that maybe they need to be managed better, but we're really cantionate about you know, the open West, the ability to go out and hunt, uh, you know, outside our park system. So there's a little match sometimes between the East and West. And those of us in the West that grew up there and lived there, we're pretty passionate, you know, about making sure that the legacy that was given to us is protective for the next generation. 00:14:15 Speaker 4: The West is the frontier of America, right, and the stories that have come out of Western states throughout the history of this country, from Alaska down to New Mexico and Arizona and Montana. I mean, they tell these wonderful stories of who we are as Americans that you cannot find anywhere else. And that does include the extractive industry, right, the gold Rush, certainly, construction of the train lines, so much more that has contributed to the development of the West. But those stories, those hunting stories, and the way that we grew up as Westerners were all on mountains, traversing rivers, crossing grasslands, you know, hunting elk deer is the story is also of becoming American and so to not have access to these places where history, where American history lives. There may not be a marker on every corner on every forest, but you know this, you know how special it is. And and to your point, the Easterners may not value that as much as folks in the West. Some do, don't get me wrong, but the integrity of protecting public lands isn't just about the land. It's about the history. It's about who we are as Americans and what we want to leave behind for the next generation. And so when when Ryan introduced the Public Lands in Public Hands Act and I introduced my Wildlife Corridor's bill, I said, hey, I want to go talk to to Ryan and I want to see if he might take up this idea that we have to start a public Lands Caucus and bring in some of his colleagues, bring in some of my colleagues, and let's get our two bills passed and then let's see where we can take it from there. So we're going to have a meeting next week to discuss some of our other priorities. And I think just before we got on the podcast, Representative Zinki has a good one. I have a few too that I want to talk about but that is the work of the caucuses to see where within that Venn diagram we can get consensus. And so as we continue to meet, we'll see where those proposals are and then we'll agree to push them together. And you know, sometimes it takes for example, for me, if I need to bring in a progressive lefty organization to support a bill that they weren't one hundred percent on, but the Caucus supports it, that's something that I can do to help support the caucus. Because the Republicans are in leadership right now and they have the administration. You know, it's really Ryan's job and his colleagues to then go sell it to the committee chairs and go say, hey, this is a good idea, and yes, these Democrats are supporting it, but it's still a good idea and it's our idea. 00:16:52 Speaker 3: And it's helpful helpful also to view things through rather than a blue or red lens, a red, white and blue lens, and on auto developing relationships. Then we can address, you know, things that are also important to our constituousy, you know, either water rights or settlements or you know, things that they are kind of a burr under saddle for a while you know that that that involve us, you know, infrastructure projects on the water for instance out west Whiskeys for drinking waters, for fighting. 00:17:24 Speaker 2: That's right, and and sometimes we have to I. 00:17:27 Speaker 3: Got stories about that, Yeah, but sometimes we have to encourage those and how how important these water projects are out in the West because the water water feeds communities but also feuds wildlife uh in areas, and you want to make sure you want to manage those water systems uh the best you can, because you know, as the West grows, I think you can go all the way back to John Wesley Palace that the limb of the West is water. So to mismanagement water or or to vote against water projects, you know, we gotta we got to go back to our colleagues that it may have a different view and tell them why it's so important. 00:18:07 Speaker 1: You know, the the federal government, especially when everybody's in DC, is really easy to cast stones at. I Oddly enough, when I travel out here. 00:18:19 Speaker 2: I would say more deservingly so to be cast stones at. 00:18:22 Speaker 1: That's just but I do a certain sense of empathy creeps in because you know, yesterday we showed up on the hill, bright and early, beautiful day outside didn't re emerge from the indoors until after six thirty pm. Yeah, and that's everybody's typical day here. I can understand a disconnect. I had an amazing adventure with West Virginia BHA and West Virginia dn OUR last spring. That's three hours from here, and it was a comparable public life and adventure as you could have in the West. And people do not go there from here, like very very few. And so to take you know, a perspective from here and place it on what you were just discussing Ryan, like the arid West. People don't know what arid is if you're from this part of the world and this is your operating center. It's just it's hard to imagine how truly diverse our public land landscape is and how different the management needs to be from community to community or valley bottom to mountaintop. Right. 00:19:44 Speaker 4: Well, you've got to see it, I mean, that's bottom line is you've got to see these places, and not every member is ever going to get a chance to see what we get to see across the West. You know, just this last summer I was able to take another member who had not ventured outside of his district. Really his whole life except to go on these you know, fancy trips sometimes that they provide you here. And I took him to the Arctic Refuge in Alaska, to the coastal Plain. And that's the land that's unlike any other. 00:20:13 Speaker 2: I mean, it's an. 00:20:14 Speaker 4: Extra terrestrial, you know, beautiful flat land with clean rivers that you can you know, drink water out of and catch a grayling or you know gold Arctic jar, you know, on the first cast, and they just keep coming and and the moose are running around, Muskoks are everywhere, and there's not anybody for four hundred or five hundred miles and if you get bad weather, you're not getting out of there. And then we went to Arctic Village to talk to the native community about the importance of the porcupine caribou herd. Anyway, fantastic trip. We've made it back in one piece. And now he's the biggest advocate for the Arctic Refuge. Yeah, because he saw it, you know, and we need to do more of that. 00:21:02 Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you Washington d C. 00:21:04 Speaker 3: For many the George Washington park Way here, which is believe they or not, part of the Department of Interior Park System. 00:21:13 Speaker 2: To many, that's what they believe wilderness is. I swear to god, Oh look this is bolderness Roosevelt. It's really not the same. But there's a you know some of the caucus. Uh, it's it's education. Uh. 00:21:29 Speaker 3: And and I think it's important. Uh, your relationships are important. And in viewpoints. For instance, when you when you when you when you go up to the you know, the North Shore uh, and either the National Petroleum Reserve or or the refuge. 00:21:45 Speaker 2: He said, well, how'd that happen up there? 00:21:47 Speaker 3: It really was a roll of dice because the resources are about the same on both sides. It was just a decision by Jimmy Carter to say, all right, we're going to put this in the right and it's on the left and leave the middle on determined until until we could we could look at it. Because at the time when Jimmy Carr was before the pipeline, so they didn't even put any services up there. Well, it's it's interesting also understanding you know, the historical context. And you talked a little about the Antiquities Act. The first monument that was declared was actually Teddy Roosevelt. And for those that don't have a canvas wonderful picture of Teddy Rose would hang out my office. But it was the Devil's Tower at Naomi. And the time it was twelve hundred acres, and oh my god, you know, Utah went crazy because it was you know, a federal you know, in interference. But the Antiquities Act it is, you know, really straightforward. It's it's less than a page. You have to have an object to protect, and that object, by law, is geologic, it is prehistoric historic. I don't I don't disagree a lot of times on cultural or but that that should be an added on, an amendment on it. And then it has to be in federal land. You can't you can't put a monum run state or private land. And last, the smallest area compatible protection the object. The first the first one was twelve hundred acres, and at the time that seemed like an enormous amount because the majesty of that, particularly geologic formation, requires twelve hundred acres. 00:23:22 Speaker 2: It probably requires a little a little more. 00:23:24 Speaker 3: You know, if you build condos around, it'll be a great view for the condo, but not not not a good view for the for for America. 00:23:32 Speaker 1: Yeah, I love the conversation in we've referenced Roosevelt in some of the people that have come before us, and when I was in the House Energy and Natural Resources Subcommittee yesterday, it really is impactful. Is it's literally these same seats that people well before us, with far less detailed knowledge of the landscape, made these really big and at the time controversial decisions to serve put aside, invest in emerging science for better game population data, et cetera. That have set us up for where we are today. It's a broad question, but you guys are tasked with this right now, and is it harder now? 00:24:38 Speaker 4: I think I think it's easier in the sense that we have more data that that we understand where the resources are, that we understand population and wildlife trends over years, We've seen what watersheds have done with h with all kinds of either climate events human development. We understand a little bit more about how to manage our fisheries, about how to manage our national force. Now the hard part is actually doing it, is actually executing and funding management plans. But I will say, even in those late eighteen hundreds early nineteen hundred days, you know, with Pinchot and Muor and Roosevelt. They were all different styles of conservationists, right. There were the preservationists. There were the light conservationists that still you know, wanted development, whether it was a mine or a railroad. And then there was folks like Teddy Roosevelt, who was a pragmatist, right, but also you know, wouldn't wouldn't compromise on the things that he loved. And he had a wide array of experience I think probably the most out of the conservationists of those years that allowed him to have the success that he did selling conservation to the general public during a time when the Central Industrial Revolution was really should have been the focus of conversation across our country, and Roosevelt made it about conservation. I don't think there's another guy who could ever do that again. But he talked to all those folks, and he took all of their input, and he worked as best as he could. And so to a degree, Mine and Representative Zink's job here now, and the function of that caucus is for those people that care about conservation and that may have diverging views on certain things like management or wolfree introduction or Wild and Scenic river designation, whatever it might be, there are areas in which we still have an opportunity to work together to move the ball forward. And we have the data now, we have the scientists, we have government agencies that have undertaken decades of research already on these places, so we know the species that are there for the most part, we know what minerals are there, We know how the watersheds are impacted by these massive fires. We know where proper development should take place and not for the most part. So in that sense it should be easier. The harder part is actually just getting it done here in Congress. 00:27:08 Speaker 1: What about the example of trying to sell wildlife overpasses in infrastructure. 00:27:18 Speaker 3: Well, you know, on the surface, well, that's a lot of money for an overpass. You know, when when dollars are tight, right, and we're thirty eight trillion dollars in debts, so I think money should be tight. But then when you explain you know what value does it have, and how critical the wildlife corridors are to the health of the herds, and how our roads and fence lines oftentimes have disturbed those patterns that are necessary between you know, the winter grazing and the summer grazing, but also how many lives are lost a year of getting hit by you know, an elk. When you hit by and you're in a Volkswagen, you hit by an elk, you could feel it. So you know how many lives we're going to save? And some of it is the safety aspect of it. But you know, to Gabe's point, you know AI, we kind of talked about this before the show, but AI is coming and what does AI mean and management it should mean a lot. That means we can use the data we can go through, we can make predictive studies and even on hunting AI we need to have this discussion because you know, we don't use drones for hunting in Montana because there is fair chase, right, But now with AI, you can put a set of game cameras out, integrate, integrate everything. It goes up to a satele. You can find and hunt down individual l Is that fair chase? Well, you know we didn't have that discussion, and how do you ensure that the hunting tradition that we know, you know, it's it has to be fair. 00:28:58 Speaker 2: You're not going to go that point just shoot them from your fo Well, yeah, you're not gonna You're not gonna hunt elka crop. All right. 00:29:04 Speaker 3: It's called the experienced of going out in honey. But this is where I think this format on on our caucus and for AI. Some of the older generation, you know, may not understand it as much as the younger, but this is where we need to be educated, you know, the the cutting edge people need to educate those that are making the laws on what is the power of AI and potential right for managing species, for getting ahead of if there's zebra muscles, tell me where the propensity is for zebra muscles and where do we need to concentrate our resources to be effective? 00:29:40 Speaker 2: Uh. 00:29:40 Speaker 3: These are things that I think are great opportunity for us UH to shape our policy. 00:29:46 Speaker 2: You know, going forward. 00:29:48 Speaker 4: A great use of AI that I've seen that impacts wildlife is virtual fencing on catle operations at New Mexico State University. They've developed this AI program After the Blackfire, one of the the largest fires in the Helo National Forest two years ago, they collared all these cattle, all the pasture fences were burnt down, and they developed this program to track the cattle. And yes, they get a light pinch, a light touch of love to essentially move them, rotate them around the grassland and keep them out of those ripe perion areas since there's pasture fences, aren't there anymore those riparian areas that feed into the headwaters that are where the native heel of troutar should be protected. And if we can't keep the cattle out because the pasture fence is burnt down and the rancher can't repair the pasture fences, and what do you do? So this was a solution that works now. And I saw the guy on his iPad looking at all the little circles where all the cattle were, and he draws a little geo fence around a different part where he wants him to graze. The next day, he takes him there the next day. Not only that, but there's monitors, rain monitors and drought monitors that are actually out on the range to tell them ideally without having to drive, you know, your truck down a bumpy road one hundred miles UH to confirm if the grass indeed is doing well or not. And that's been very successful and something we should invest in the form of USDA grants to folks that are grazing, especially in wilderness. 00:31:17 Speaker 2: Are you sure that Montana State didn't develop the good on New Mexico. See, I didn't know that. Yeah, it has relevance. And this is where you should look at, you know, pilot programs. 00:31:29 Speaker 3: That's our our job, right and take a technology that we think is going to work, and let's try it out, because you know, if it's best practices, best highest use, that that you can manage better then that. 00:31:44 Speaker 2: Let's try it out. Let's kick the tires. 00:31:46 Speaker 1: My cousins. They're out of central Montana. You said you said you were hunting out of Lewistown earlier this year. 00:31:53 Speaker 3: Well, I's got got a small calf because that's as big as my refrigerator is. 00:31:58 Speaker 1: Man, we had a long standing rule about amongst my archery hunting friends, where it's either a big bowl or a very small calf if it's right. 00:32:09 Speaker 2: The Actually he's got a big cat. But yeah, it was nice. It's nice to get out there. 00:32:15 Speaker 1: But they jumped over to GPS callers for a section of their herd and I just sat down with them and ran through the whole program. And it is amazing, it's super super cool. But to jump back to the technology and wildlife. Like, where we're sitting right here is is historic sportsman regulation territory. Right, Like we're at the epicenter of market hunting with the Potomac and the Chesapeake Bay, and sportsmen stood up and self regulated and said, Hey, I know this sounds crazy, but we shouldn't shoot waterfowl with cannons right for market hunting purposes, right, We're destroying the resource. And I do think that the pace and availability of technology is moving so fast that I just want to say, I really appreciate you both thinking along those terms, because we're going to be behind on this in terms of how our wildlife is affected by the use of the rapid use and adaptability of technology in the field. 00:33:25 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, just using Onyx as an example, right, I don't think I've seen a guy with the topo map out in the field for a few years at least. ONYX has just become institutionalized, and for good reason. I mean, obviously, my biggest concern was always making sure that I was staying out of private land, and that was the biggest deal. But once you started to be able to mark all your spots and draw your lines, and I don't know, what other features Onyx has. Now it makes the honey experience so much better, so much easier, knowing where the waters are if you're on horseback, make sure that you can make that six or seven mile right somewhere. Uh, that kind of stuff is just invaluable. Invaluable, But that that came pretty fast. 00:34:06 Speaker 1: It's a different game. Yeah did you did you make it out and hunt this year? 00:34:10 Speaker 2: I did? Yeah? 00:34:11 Speaker 4: Yeah, I killed a coups dere Yeah, out in Unit twenty six cher or random story rifle rifle about six hundred yards out in the middle of nowhere, about four miles from the US Mexico border. It's a rugged place. Nobody hunts out there, which is why I hunt out there. I get a tag almost every year. 00:34:31 Speaker 1: Cool. 00:34:31 Speaker 4: They give out two hundred and thirty six, something like three hundred. 00:34:34 Speaker 1: People after this podcast. 00:34:37 Speaker 4: Well, well it's it's not easy country to get into. 00:34:41 Speaker 3: And the road you take is they're out there, is all I'll say. 00:34:47 Speaker 4: It's a big unit. It's a big unit, but a nice buck. We ate it for Christmas. I still got some We're about to go on a coil hunt and we're going to do a wild game cookoff. So I get to use some of my my uh my to your meat still nice and fresh and deliciously tasty. I hate to give it away, but that's what it's for. It's for friends. 00:35:06 Speaker 1: I didn't have high expectations for cues your being tasty, but they are. They are really good. 00:35:14 Speaker 2: I'll say, it's how you cook. 00:35:15 Speaker 1: Them and then you get You did some bird hunting this year too? 00:35:18 Speaker 2: I did. 00:35:18 Speaker 3: I did some bird hunting. I try to get out once a year. Although you know, when you have a government shut down, yeah, you know, all these you know, problems here, it interrupts my my enjoyment back home, I would say, but yeah, but I think it's important too to go out and hunt. 00:35:39 Speaker 2: And hunting is you know, on the land. 00:35:41 Speaker 3: Caucus is a is an important part, but there's also other parts, uh you know about public access, the hiking, fishing. 00:35:48 Speaker 2: What are we gonna do about the corners? 00:35:50 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I think the judge in Wyoming has has set a precedent. The Court didn't take it up, but I think it's also be helpful where we don't have to lean on the court for every decision that actually, you know, we codify it and and and law and and and to make sure the policy goes forward because I and to me, the courts you know it should be uh looking at what the constitutionality is, but they shouldn't be you know, legislating so on on issues like corners and stuff like that. I see that more than the legislative box. So you know we should do that. Our Our duty is Article one. And you know there's a lot to a corner. Because you know four corners right in Montana, you think you have access. Else some of those corners don't have access at all. And it might be an area where you have Riparian bank where where it's more or less set aside. And I on on public access, it's a two way street. To me is that if you have a set up a public land, there somewhere there's traditional access. It may be a corner, if it's flat or land, it may not be a corner, but somewhere public should have access to that. Similarly, if you have a private land holder the governor's land around you, somewhere you should have access to your property because whether you're public or private, you have I think a right for enjoyment of your property, reasonable enjoyment and not having access to it where you have to fly in by helicopter to me is unreasonable and that's not very enjoyable that you could afford it. 00:37:24 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:37:25 Speaker 1: Well, first I want to say, like, as a constituent, I think members of the Public Land Caucus need to get out on public land more so. Hunting once a year is not acceptable a lot. I mean that holds to a higher standard there. I want you guys living and breathing and bleeding our public lands for us. And I can't thank you enough from the grassroots constituency level of putting this together. And I'm sure you get pulled in a million different way, but it's impactful for us folks on the ground, So really keep it up and please run out of time here. So if there's a way for just the people to help impact the process, what is that? How can we help? 00:38:19 Speaker 2: Yeah? 00:38:20 Speaker 4: Well, we have a Public Lands Caucus website live up now, just went up a couple of weeks ago, so you can contact us there if you have a particular concern or comment or you want to talk to us about a particular issue. You see the roster of members that we have all twenty two, so you know which office you contact. See if maybe one of those folks is your representative and they're part of the caucus, and you want to influence that conversation. Of course, writing in and calling into our offices is important. I can tell you that when the public lands sell off fiasco was happening here from May to June, the amount of communication that we received by email, by phone, folks coming into our office was tremendous. I mean, we were just overflowing with folks talking to us. And that makes a difference because our staff can't do anything else but pay attention to that issue. And that was huge. You know that grassroots and you know when folks say, you know what, I'm not a Republican or I'm not a Democrat, I'm just pro public lands. And this is why it's important to me. Those were powerful arguments that people made because they were willing to put aside all the other politics of anything else and just say, how can I help you so that you can help us and protect these special places. That's really what you can continue to do. And as we put our priorities out like the public Lands in Public Hands act is continue to find ways to support that. You know, we love to see a blog post on somebody else's website and op ed somewhere that says we endorse this legislation. We've had that on several occasions, and so finding creative ways. And then it's our job to go make sure that these bills actually get heard and committee, you know, and that we sell them to our colleagues. And that's part of the strength of the Caucus is that once we endorse something, you know, we can go to somebody like Bruce Westerman or maybe not Mike Lee, uh, but certainly some issue and uh and and we can say, hey, the full caucus is behind this, and so you know it comes with a little bit more weight. 00:40:27 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:40:28 Speaker 3: And I would say, make your voice be heard. And democracies only work if if if people utilize their their their their their freedom to discuss. So whether you live in our district or someone else's district, you know, find your local congressman and let your voice be heard. Get on the radio once in a while and say how important it is, because it is important. I think in the public lands battle, Uh, we won the last one. I don't think the war's over. There's a public the battle is done. And but I think the goodness out of it is. We have a public plants Cacus, it's bipartists and and uh so we're tackling some of the issues and reducing some of the anger out there. 00:41:08 Speaker 2: There's a little anger. 00:41:10 Speaker 3: Uh you know some of them, you know, mismanagement over the past. Well let's look at the future and get the anger out of the discussion, so so people can can talk to each other, you know, neighborly like and and get things done. 00:41:24 Speaker 2: That's right. I like it. 00:41:26 Speaker 1: Well, uh I really appreciate the time and the access. That's all we got for you. 00:41:32 Speaker 2: This all right, appreciate it. Thanks Cam,