00:00:06 Speaker 1: A little open letter to Subway. I have devoted so much airtime to standing next to you through this entire ordeal. Within like a couple of pages, Irak mentions Artisanal I P. A. S. And the Grateful Dead, and I was like, this is the Rosetta Stone, this is the Genesis story. If I'm being totally honest, suckers or just things I think might be trout until they're not. He didn't encourage giving kids guns or smoking while canoeing down some white water in this one, So you know, good morning, degenerate anglers, and welcome to Ben the fishing podcast that forgot the eye before e rule when it got the word believe tattooed below the giant muskie that was already inked on its lower back. I'm Joe Surmelli and I'm Hayden Samac And whenever I see a misspelled tattoo, it makes me wonder if the client is always right and like insisted on the spelling, or if like just tattoo artists in general or not eight spellers right. I've always kind of wondered the same thing, like even if you're not hooked on phonics, like does nobody run the spell check you know what I'm saying. Uh. Anyway, if you if you haven't already guessed, our permanent solution to a loose theme this week is tats. Fish tats specifically, um and I have some, but before we discuss those, you sir have a lot more ink than I do. But are any of them? Is there any fish on your person? Uh? No, I know, no, there's not. I do have like a as far as outdoor tattoos go, I do have like a pleasant tattoo on my arm, and I have something ok antlers, I have an arrow going through a sparrow on my wrist. And uh, I will go on record now and say I have so many tattoos that I really just kind of don't give a shit anymore. And you're that guy, and yeah, well, I mean you know, uh, I might might be talked in to getting some fish inc in the future in the name of ben. Oh. Careful, I like it, be careful right, fun with it. I mean, dude, I wasn't gonna give you a hard time about not having a fish tat. I will, look, I will give people a hard time about lots of things, but not tattoos because they are personal, like I would never say I'm pretty sure you never shot a bull elk, Like that would be a dick move. I wouldn't do that to you, you know, but it's not me. I wanted some sort of big game tattoo. Man, this was back in like I don't know, uh, you know, elk candlers are just a lot more like graphically appealing than I think a white tail rack. I couldn't quite figure that, right, All right, there you go. I mean, like you don't really need any validation. Um, but you've also hinted to me in the past that that you you might have some ink you regret lightly, which I can identify with because I do. But like with an asterisk, okay, like as it goes with many youths, like you can't get inked fast enough when you turn eighteen. And my mom, who is awesome, was even willing to pay for my first tattoo. And I wanted something music related, and my dad was like, listen, I know you're into playing that hard, screaming garbage shit right now, but you might not always be. But you've always loved fishing, and you've always loved sharks. And he was right, right, he was right, So I got a great white instead. But being in such a rush and having a limited budget, like my mom wasn't like whatever it costs, She's like, you got three hundred bucks or whatever. I just pulled one off the wall, And I've seen the same shark on the wall in every tattoo shop I've been in since, so like kind of more than being representative of my love of sharks and fishing, it morphed into more of an homage to just being eighteen and in a hurry, you know what I mean. Like I don't hate it, but it was chosen in haste. I'll say that first off. Talking about like the just pulling one off the wall a lot of times, like that's kind of a cool way to get tattooed because you're kind of participating in like a cannon of tattooing, you know what I mean, Like that that piece of flash like kind of becomes iconic and it's kind of like a way to I don't know, you you find that mostly in people who are like collecting tattoos, like in a big way. But I don't think there's anything wrong with that, man, now, I know there's now, But I was just like that one you know what I mean, Like I'm like, there's nothing special about it or something. You know. Yeah, well, let me tell you this. Some of my earliest tattoos weren't that way, and I kind of wish that they were. For instance, like the very first tattoo that I ever got was an arrow on my forearm, and that's because I grew up like archery hunting, and I thought that was pretty neat. Then about like a year or two later, I don't know if it's because like pinch Rist or some ship, every white girl on the planet got an arrow tattoo exactly in the same spot you need to go back to move forward, in the same exact spot as I had. So I actually, like I ended up putting a snake around it like three years later, just to make it look a little bit you can see you back in like bro, put a snaker on this, put a snaker on this dude, and not only that man, but like it's so common. Again, we're gonna talk about Chester Floyd in the office here. He has an almost identical tattoo on his forearm arrow, same spot. Fair enough, fair enough, and at least I will I will say this though, right, Um, I haven't seen my shark on other people. I've seen the flash in the other tattoo polars, but I haven't seen it on someone else anyway. So you only spent a couple of years before you got your second. I didn't get any more ail. I was twenty seven. It was from my one year wedding anniversary. My wife, who had no tattoo, was wanted one. So that's what we did. And she got you know, tiny flower on her foot and I got a big brown trout and striper crossing over an outline of jersey on my leg. At that time, I had a buddy draw it. Now, in hindsight, could it still have been drawn better? Yes? Right At the time though, I was like, bro, you're the best tattoo drawer I've ever seen. Um, But at least it's a one of a kind, and I still like it, So I'm not no no regrets, no regrets, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, recently, uh, my girlfriend asked if she could draw a tattoo for me to go get and the answer is absolutely not for sure, no, Um, you know, it's kind of common. Um. But but even even though it's like sort of maybe shitty tattoos are a lot of fun. Yeah, they can be. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I one time I let my buddies like Apprentice do a mountain seat on my leg when she was still like kind of learning how to tattoo. And it's easily the worst tattoo that I have. It looks like an orange over like two ice cubes. But when I say it, like, it makes me laugh. After you get like enough tattoos, you kind of stopped caring so much and they just kind of become these things that, as you said, with your tattoo mark a certain time in your life or whatever and remembrance. Yeah, yeah, you remember more when than like why if that makes sense. Yeah. Once you have, however many though, you kind of get into that like why not zone. I have somebodies who would like describe themselves as maybe like addicted to getting tattoos, but I don't really get that. Yeah, and I know it can be very addictive. I never caught the bug. I like, right now, I have no desire for more than what I have, but I still love tattoos. I follow so many tattoo artists and um, I know so many that specialized in fish and I'm like a man, where were you? Why couldn't I know you when I was twenty seven? You know, but you can't. You can't beat yourself up over that. You really shouldn't beat yourself up over any tat because as long as it means something to you, it's all good. Um. I will say that the only thing I could never fully get behind and figure out, uh was getting a gear brand logo. And like I get teams, I get, you know, even a band, but not like brands that just sell things like Adidas or case kse Swiss or something like that. And I'm sorry if that's offensive to anybody to teach their own. That's just like one segment of tattoos I never quite got. Yeah, man, um, I was thinking personally about getting like the first light logo like a little tear drop under my eye, then keep adding another one for every mule deer I shot or something going on some outdoors gangster ship not But like, I don't know, I don't get the brand logos at all. I think it's sort of weird. Yeah, like yeah, come on, you know, don't get the g loom is fish bones, ain'ked on yourself? You know, like the smarter thing to do, would beat a get the logo of our sponsors thirteen Fishing tattooed on your neck. I think that's pretty obvious, you know, Yeah, I mean all of my logo hatred said, I will mentioned that I have a full thirteen Fishing back piece being drawn up right now. It's got like spin rods and fishing. But there's like a bass jumping out of the ice as if there were no ice at all. It really makes a lot of sense. It's really well thought out. It's gonna be beautiful. The tag Marson's gonna hate it, yeah, don't you? Also, you have them an appointment to get their logo branded on you too as well, right, It's I wouldn't It's not like an appointment per se. My buddy was gonna like bend a wire hanger and yeah, yeah, there's a hack for all you crazy kids out there. You go, and we thought about doing the thirteen logo, but decided to go with one of their their flash bangs instead. I was gonna get it like right on my ribs, kind of oh man, that the code hanger. That's how they did it in Notre Dame High School circuit tooth thousand one. When did I graduate something like that? Anyway, that's a great choice. Um, that's that's a great spoon on the ice as well, since this is not weird, the rattle chamber is built right into those and there's an integrated glow stick that lasts for hours. It might last for hours, man, but it's probably not gonna last as long as the pain from that branding iron or branding iron probably not oh man. Anyway, keeping with our skin and fishing theme, we're about to hit our covering water segment with a man that is arguably one of the best and most sought after tattoo artists in the country. He specializes in fish. He's also a serious fish head. He also co owns a fly shop and um Hayden borrowed a bunch of fly time ship from during the height of the COVID pandemic. I'm going in, I can hold it. I'm okay, So we're you're here with my pal Dan Santro uh. Dan is a renowned tattoo artist and is considered one of the best fish tattoo artists currently out there. Although it's not like how you would traditionally, it's not like hyper realism or something like that, but it's kind of hard to put your finger on. Thank you, Dan, How like, how would you describe it? Um as? I mean, stylistically, it just kind of falls in line with how I believe tattoos should be applied. It's not so much that I think it looks cool, although I do, but a lot of it is done for kind of like utility reasons. Yes, you would say, like the hallmarks your style are like kind of bold and you know, hard lines and correct. Dan's too humble to say this, but I'm gonna make him a little bit uncomfortable here. Dan and his work have been featured on the Vice Network, fly Lords, in countless tattoo books, magazines, and a whole bunch of other spots in the dark web. Dan is also a super fishy dude and recently has become the co founder and co owner of house Fly with his partner Sean Whitman. Now house Fly is a super cool fly shop in northeast Pennsylvania the town of Holly. And that's actually spot that when I was back on the East Coast, I spent a ton of time fly Fish and Joe, You've hit like the lack of wax and stuff. Yeah, well, I was gonna say I have a leg up on you because you're from here. But I've been there. I've been to house Fly, and it's a it's a great chop when I appreciate about what you guys are doing, because I think it's more than a fly shop. I get the sense you're trying to build a brand around it. I mean all the branding, all every everything is super cool. I mean just the name house Fly is super cool. Great store, man, great store. Thank you. Yeah, and we have another partner as well. It's Shawn myself and then um there's Tim. Tim lives in Brooklyn, so he's not here uh a lot. And Tim is a super important part of the story and I think also a super super important part of our even just like visual Addict. So yeah, it's it's the three of us. Unfortunately I'm not here. I'm not here Ton either because I'm you know, I have a day job tattooing. But Seawan is holding down the fort. And then Tim is truly the man behind the curtain in Brooklyn. So it's a it's an eclectic shop. And I mean that in the best possible way that I was in there and while you have everything you need and more for local fishing, I was like, I want one of those skateboards with the dance Santairo fish. That's what I bought, the skateboard. Thank you guys. But great, great story, Thank you. How how did you like kind of become so well known for your fish tattoos in particular because it is something you're like well known for at this point. Um, you know, I don't really know. I definitely was doing fish tattoos for years, even before I was fly fishing. I was doing fishing tattoos just because of just I just always dug it. And then two thousand and eighteen, maybe it was nineteen, I don't remember exactly, I did a thing where I gave half the money of every fish tattoo to a conservation group. Did it Actually was kind of it was a little daunting. It was like a really fun project. I haven't got creative with like who I would give the money to. I was going, you know, it was basically giving it to um, you know the blue chips in the beginning, like you know, trout to limit or whatever. Yeah, So if I did a striped bass tattoo, I was giving it to Delaware Baykeeper or whatever, you know what I mean. I was like, that's a lot of work. Especially, it was fun. It was fun. It's been like years and I still get so much literature sent to my house, but conservation literature. Yeah, I mean it was conservation literature or just like hey remember us, you know. But like, I really feel like that was a big push for me and fishing tattoos, because I definitely tattooed people that had never thought about getting tattooed before, but they were. They were referred to me through this kind of conservation project. So fast forward a couple of months after we met COVID hit Actually wasn't even a couple of months. It was a couple of weeks. Yeah, no, it's pretty fresh. Yeah. Now my reaction to that happening was, you know, I went and I grabbed my like then girlfriend, and we shot up to this little cabin my folks had on lake wall in paw Pack. And it turns out that you lived directly across the lake from that cabin, and you know, you and I got to chatting on the old instance slam. I borrowed some fly time stuff from you, and here we are a couple of years later. Oh, I forgot about that. Yeah, with with a I think they were with a Turkey I shot that year. You were. I hazard to say, you were probably like one of some of the first one of the first people I saw since like Lockdown, like it was early. Did he bleach off whatever he barreed with with No, I just didn't give it back. I still have it. I still have the nice you got plenty of flying swimming in it. Yeah, exactly, so. I mean, so the ultimate reason we brought you here, man, was to do this covering water segment with us. So I'm gonna explain how that works. Right, So it's theoretically an interview segment, except we do it a little different. What we've done here is Hayden and I have come up with ten questions each that we're gonna rapid fire at you and get through as many as we can in two minutes. And the whole idea here is that you don't have too much time to think about your answer. You you just have to fire it off right and um, when we're done, we do promise that we will give you one full minute to expand or explain which everyone was like the most damning, which everyone was like, oh shoot, I should not have answered that. We will give you one full minute to uh to make everything right sound good? Well, yeah, I'll do my best. I mean, I'm gonna do my best and not make everyone damning. All right, all right, so I'm gonna put to I'm gonna put two minutes on the clock. Hayden, you are going to kick off and we are running. Ever read a small jaw, No finish this sentence. If I never had to tattoo another blank again, I wouldn't be sad. Oh, lower back, remember that beautiful? Okay, got it? What is your favorite podcast? Making Sense with Sam Harris? Why is your favorite podcast Klauser, Bugger or Zonker? You can only pick one, Klaus good choice. Drift boat or a raft. I haven't been in too many rafts, but drift boat nice, nice, hard boat for the wind. Why is fly fishing culture so obsessed with grateful dead logos and symbolism. I think the way that the music is structured is very like you know, it's obviously very improv and so is fishing, and it's like this kind of never ending things. I mean before man, yeah, that's true. And I also I also kind of realized I'm reading um trout bum for the second time that um in like within like a couple of pages girak mentions like Artisanal I P A. S And The Grateful Dead, and I was like, this is this is the bid, this is like the this is this is the genesis. I think blank is criminally underrated. Cheese whiz wow, that's wow. We got to hang out more. In your opinion, the most painful place to get a tattoo is, oh man, upper ribs. Okay, what is your best river clean up? Find? A memorial for somebody that passed away that was made into like a raft and they tried to send it down the river like probably like Viking funeral style, but where we found it, it probably didn't go like more than like a couple hundred yards. Misfits guar or spinal tap, oh, misfits like like they're like misfits against like even like the new jump. What is your worst river cleanup find? Oh man, I'm so many needles animal like deer like deer and garbage bags and ship like that. Like we've had people straight like wretching like a cleanup s you know what I mean? So anything like bio is like, no, like you, what's the most unique fish species you've ever tattooed. I don't know. People kind of go for like the big five or whatever. You know what I mean. It's like always kind of the same. I did recently do um a car. It's mostly trout. I mean, everybody wants like brown trout, rainbow trout. I've done a lot of large mouth, um some small mouth. I kind of even though I prefer catching small mouth, I prefer tattooing large mouth small mouth. There too subtle. Those patterns are just like too subtle large mouth. You need that one horizontal bar and you know what it is. You know what I mean. We're already going away over to one more. No, no, no, it's god Hayden one more. Do you think fly fishermen are better than conventional fisherman, Oh, they don't litter as much? Yes or no bro? Yes or no bro yes, that's one for me. Wire small mouths so much better than large mouths. Oh, bro, it's like night and day. Man. It's like if you do, if you do, if you're doing like a blind taste test with just like you know, your eyes closed, you just hold the pole bro come on like a five pound large mouth. Don't feel shipped against like a one pound small love it. It's like a little hurt there, alright, alright that ye dude, that's the second covering. Water gets in a row that closed by shipping on large mouths. Okay, second thing, and it's terrific. Oh man, that was fun. We went over do we give him do we give him the minute to expand? It's totally fair. Dan kind of gave it up a minute for each one and expand it just naturally. But I mean, the rules is rules, man, Like anything there, you want to give us more about any one of those answers, you'd like the folks at home to know more about why you said it? What do I say about the lower back tattoos? Lower backs? Now I'm thinking about are not that well, that's funny, I said. I set that up thinking you would give me like a thing like if I never had to do another Just too many I know that's I kind of like knew that's what you meant. But there's simply too many things I don't want to do, so I just kind of like put it to like the thirty six body parts just like but but now you got to say why lower back? Now you gotta do it. Now you gotta expand oh, people just sit so shitty in the way, you gotta like stretch out. I mean I haven't really, I mean other than like I do a lot of back pieces, so I I like by default end up tattooing lower backs. But I mean, you know, like I learned the tattoo in New Jersey in the like you know, early two thousands, see a lot of lower back tattoos that very much like the tribal it was like very much. So yeah, exactly, so like my I guess like I'm still not above doing that, but I guess like if I had to kind of like say, like there's something that man I still like shut her to think, that would be that would be. It was just that the you know, the the amount that I did fair enough, so everybody knows if they ever booked you for a tattoo session, you'd prefer not to do their lower back. I mean, we probably wouldn't even get that far if that's where they were going. So all right, Dan, well, thank you so much for coming on. And that was that was pretty funny. Before we go, do you want to tell us a little bit about a house fly and maybe like where to find you on the Instagram. Yeah. So the shop itself is at two seventeen Main Avenue in Holly, Pennsylvania. Um, we're right next to Pat's Bar and my tattoo shop. The it's called American House, just a couple doors down. Um, we are on you know, all the social media things. It's just house fly fishing. One word. Um is it one word, Sean, It's two words. It's it's house fly coner, it's house Yeah. Yeah, Tim, Tim right now in the future is listening to this shaking, like hitting his jewel so hard, I'm telling you. Um. So it's like on social media and like all that ship. But I'd rather just come here and just see it yourself. Dan's a blast man, Like I gotta hang out with that dude. He's already hinted. Yeah, he's already hinted that he's got interest in shad and snakeheads and we don't leave that far away from each other. Um. I Also, I really appreciated his answer about the fly fishing grateful Dead connection, Like I thought it was thoughtful, But I also still hate the Grateful Dead. Um. And God smack since you know we're saying him, since we're rolling them off. Yea, as much as I appreciate, like all types of music, Man, I'm not a huge deadhead either. I'm not in the target marketing group for that eight d dollars steal your face able fly reel that you know. I always found them kind of funny because the dead is all about being a free spirit and like child of the earth and peace, love and simple living. But then to afford the grateful Dead able you have to work on Wall Street, you know what I mean. Like, shouldn't a grateful Dead reel cost as much as a frisbee? You know what I'm saying. Yeah, Well, interestingly enough, something you might not know about Dan is that he recently put out a bunch of signs that say it's some like be kind, do not litter, and they have the grateful deadbear on them. And he sold a million of those things during the pandemic, I mean, just reprint after reprint, and people took them and they're like parking signs almost you can promise them, you can put them onto like the post that holds up like a stop sign, you know, like that, like rectangular post with the whole Yeah. Yeah, it's fitted so you can put those everywhere and you'll see them all over the place. But anyway, forget the grateful dead man we're about. We're gonna be talk about something else, and that's you, Joe. You're going to be dead, dead meat when I kick your butt. In this week's installment of fish News, Fish News that escalated quickly. Hey, so while the B side train is still rolling, Uh, let's talk about the show airing today at one pm Eastern eleven AM Mountain. I'm gonna challenge your idea of what makes a fish worthy of targeting in today's show, how about that? Yeah? And so far, like, we've chased some oddballs, right, those being American chad and snakeheads. But here's the thing, those are fairly niche fish. Not everyone lives where those species live. But in today's show, we're going after red horse suckers. And even if you don't have red horse, strong chance you've got some species of sucker swimming close to home, because there's like a million of them in this country. So that begs the question, man, why would you fly all the way to Minnesota. Oh, they're right around they're right around everybody's backyard. So I went in Minnesota because that's where my sucker guy was. Man, Okay, yes I did fly, Dude, I posed that question in the beginning. Am I the sucker or are you the sucker for not liking suckers? Okay, but yes I did. I flew all the way out to Minnesota to hang out with my bud, Tyler Winner and Tyler Um he was actually in season two of DOS Boat Chasing Bigmouth Buffalo. That's how this connection was made. And I can honestly say I've never met a guy more eight up with underdog fish than Tyler, Like he lives to chase all the fish that most of the people don't want to. And while there there's a big culture I'm very aware of around sucker gigging in the Ozarks. That's that's like a big deal and nighttime gig deal. Tyler's the only guy I know that wants to convince you that suckers are just as worthy of targeting with a rotten reel as trout and bass. So that's why I went all the way to Minnesota to hang with him. Hayden, It's not about about the man's about the man. Okay, all right, Well, you know there is like part of me that appreciates the accessibility of like that fishery in general. When I was a kid, you could actually catch like kind of a legit Like this is an anecdotal observation, and I made this observation as a child, But you catch kind of a legit like sucker spawning run behind my house in the springtime. And I don't know exactly which ones they are, because, if I'm being totally honest, like suckers are just kind of things I think might be trout until they're not. Yes, I think every trout fisherman has yes, especially when they hit a big s streamer or something. Occasionally. Well, maybe you can help me identifying because these ones got this like really heavy black bar running from head to tail during like their spawn, and we we kind of used to goof around with them when we saw them. I know exactly what you're talking about. I have caught them. We need Tyler here because I have no idea what they are. I have I am not versed in the classification. Um but anyway, look, I'm not I'm not gonna give away my conclusion here, but I'll say this right. In a world where everyone complains about how crowded their favorite fishing holes are, Tyler is targeting um, a completely unpressured fish in some beautiful places and there is nobody else around. So there's something to be said for that, right, Like keep that in mind when you watch. There's something to be said for that. Um. There's also something to be said about this being a competition, which it is, right, And then I do not know it was perfect? It was perfect perfect. I'm Mr Perfect Hayden, and I do not know which news story the other gen is bringing to the table. And at the end a winner will be declared by our smashing audio engineer Phil. Will it be the voice of Phil today? Which is the voice of an angel um or the c G I fill that we got last week? We'll find out, but it is your lead man, Uh, take the floor what you got alright? So this week we're gonna go down I've been like on the international news beat, so this week we're going Yeah, that's good, We're going down under. In a story about a fisherman who almost ended up as cut bait. Um M and unidentified sixty year old man was fishing on his property in far north Queensland in the Mageiver River. That's mick ivor not mcgever. Uh. He goes down to his favorite hole and what does he find? A big as bull standing We're right about where he wants to be. And I guess that's like sort of a global truth about pasture fishing in general. Like I never had to deal with that until I came out here. But livestock, particularly bulls, preventing you from getting places is like a real thing. It is a real thing. And I don't even need the bull. I'm I can I can just get myself, Garrett of the cows. I've dealt with this in Amish country. P A like walking around some of those farms, because the Amish, you know, as as as sort of cloistered as they are, they're like they're very they don't most of them don't mind if you like walk down the river on their property to carp fish or whatever. And there have been several instances where I'm like, I'm not walking through this field, like I do not trust these large animals. I do not like this. So that is very real. You are correct. So anyway, dude tries to shoot the bull away and I guess the bull ends up moving because the next thing the report says is that he was trying to make a cast one Bam crock attack and that and John moment was bought to you by our resident Elton John super fan, Spencer new Hearth. Wait a minute, I didn't know Spencer was an Elton John fan. How is it brought to us by Spencer? And time? I can rib Spencer for his like undying love of Elton John. He's like traveling hundreds of miles in spring to go see Elton John fair. I like it. I will keep that joke going. I'll hit the next one. Okay, so sounds good. Anyhow, so the fight is on. The croc grabs him by both legs and starts dragging him into the water. The dude tries to hold onto the mangrove season and initially succeeds, but in what can only be describes a shocking turn of events, the croc overpowers him and he ends up in the river. It is not looking good for unidentified dundee. No, so Joe. Does he resign himself to death? Does he struggle to break free and swim ashore? No? Ask me what he does next? Uh, whatever it is, it's gonna be badass because Australians are just tougher than we are. Like, that is just I firmly believe that. I fly believe that. Go ahead. What does he do next? He saw how orients himself, reaches to his waistband and pulls out a knife. That's not how could I not sometimes the ship just it's fine, you had to go okay anyhow, Yeah, the guy pulls out a knife and starts stabbing the ship out of the crocodile, and the croc lets him go. Uh. Then this Batas proceeds to swim ashore, get in his car, and drive himself to the hospital, where at the time of the press release I lifted this from he was still recovering. My favorite part of the story is actually in the press release, where they felt the need to include that a crocodile expert examined the man and verified that his injuries were indeed consistent with the crocodile a deck When how much that guy gets paid? You know what I mean? This wasn't a cow. So you may be wondering about the fate of the crocodile um. A lot of folks know that up here in the North othern hemisphere, when somebody gets attacked by like a bear or something, most of the time the conservation officers will like go and try and remove the problem bear. Now, the report says, quote, due to the circumstances, including the remote location of the property and that there is no public access in the vicinity, d E s that's the Department of Environment and Science will not target the crocodile for removal from the wild. Um. I think part of this is that they assumed the croc was initially drawn to the section of the river because of the bull, and when the guy shoot the bull away and assumed his position, the crocs all the guy and was like, well, I guess that'll do. It. Wasn't like targeting people, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, I mean I kind of get that. It's like, you know, you remove problem animals or whatever. If it's already way way the hell out in the bush, where do you remove it and take it to It's already pretty much out there in the wild. Yeah yeah, I mean, you know, just like bear country whatever, crocs are kind of an omnipresent threat in this area. Is just part of the deal. If you're fishing there. In fact, yep, they're so prevalent that in the DS press release, uh, they listed some croc avoidance measures for this particular area, the first which basically says, as soon they're everywhere and don't go in the water, assume you'll be attacked by a croc. So yeah, so you know, this was sort of a quick hit, um, something I assumed our listeners would be, uh be interested in. And you know, if you've listened to our campfire stories, you know here a meat eater. We always like a good tale of survival against the odds. Several fingers work too. We like anything any sort of parts removed from the from the person we're all about here. If you've got a great survival story, feel free to send that in. But anyhow, the sudden ever sets on a badass, and all of us here at bent which are crock fighting pal a speedy recovery. You're right, I'm always all right when I'm with you, Dundee. Anyway, so you had a quick hit there, and I'm gonna have a couple of quick hits because full disclosure, I'm I'm calling it a fairly slow news week here, and I kind of had a feeling you'd grabbed that story and it was it was. It was kind of like the best the best piece of SLAMMI on the charcouterie board this week, and you had the lead. So here's what I'm gonna do, right, I'm gonna double down and I'm gonna hit two follow ups very very quickly. Both of these are listener prompted, but I think we need to do them. So we'll start in Pennsylvania and dropped by to see the old Hillbilly surf and turf pit master himself, Richard the Breeze Nicholson. You guys remember the breeze, right, I know you remember the breeze. We love the breeze. Yeah, it wasn't that long ago. Yeah right. Anyway, in case you missed it, late October, he yanked an eight point one pound walleye out of the Yakagani River, n p A using a live chub delivered on a noodle rod, and we covered this story right after it happened. At the time, the fish was pending state record status. Well it's been certified, and now the Breeze is officially the new king dog of p A walleye fishing and I think that's awesome because you and I talked about how satisfying it was to have that forty one year old standing record overtaken by a bank fisherman. Like the breeze, it's just so good. It's so good. And you see like that kind of thing also in like White Dale hunting or whatever, when like a kid, you know, sitting on a bucket on opening day shoots like a mega high thousand. It's just like a nice underdogar. Yeah, I love that ship. Take that side scan sonar anyway, Um, so good for him. I'm happy for him. I really mean that because it was a fun story. But furthermore, you may recall that the breeze was pretty much sharpening the filet knife. He was honing it to just a fine edge, uh, and was about to start cutting when his son suggested, Hey, like maybe we shouldn't cut that up right away because it could be a record. So now it's certified and and the breeze. He wants to eat this fish badly. And I'm under the impression, per the news story, that it's been frozen whole since it was caught in October. Because here's what the story says. The new story. Nicholson is planning to have the fish mounted and hoping the taxidermists can save the meat. Quote. I want to have a Walleye party, he said about enjoying eating what he catches. It would be a shame to waste all that meat. First of all, I want to go to that party, like the Breeze family record walle I wrap up party, because that's gonna be a scream. The second, well, I appreciate, I appreciate all that. Like I don't know, man, I feel like I know just enough about how skin mount fish taxidermy works to say that getting the skin mount and the meat is a long shot. That's that's I'm not I'm not really sure. What I would say is Breeze eat the fish. You want to so badly stuff that thing and roasted on a spit. Get a replicam mount. Right, it's not it's not skin but get a replica mount. Um. Yeah, they look better long term too, dude, I have a walleye here that's a skin mount. Long story, but it's like melting off the wall, like it's just like drips oil onto the floor. Anyway, or may I suggest that the Breeze get autaku print, even though so many people make them, I'm not even sure that's cool anymore. Anyways, the Japanese fish print on the rice paper like a million years ago, it was like special. It was like, you know, the one dude who could do the Bond's eye tree, and now like you could pick up a Bond's eye tree at the CBS. You know what I'm saying. Um yeah, So anyway, moving on, and I'll tell you right now, I'm hitting this very fast because it's beating a dead horse, like literally horse meat might actually be involved. Um, but I'm doing this because I deliver what the bent listeners want. Okay. So second little story here. Just when way thought it cleared up that whole thing about their tuna not being tuna, a new round of testing says, uh, not only is it not tuna, there may actually be no seafood in it whatsoever. One of the and this is one of the same women that started this whole class action lawsuit UM and Lost has re stoked the fires, claiming a new study says the quote tuna the tuna contains animal proteins such as chicken, pork, and cattle, and not the advertised on tuna, to which I say, I still do not care. Okay, you throw some Southwest sauce on some pork and cattle protein and that's delicious. So you know, a million people sent this to me, and here's what I say. Basically, all this proves is that subway tuna is kind of like a loose hot dog, like like a pre hardened hot dog. I'm saying, your face right now is great because I know what we know how much you love kid. Dude. When you said last time that you don't like can tuna, a million people sent me all these pictures like, well he doesn't know about this organic one and this one, and you were like, I don't I don't care if, like I don't care if the Queen of England caught this tuna and it was played by her like private fishmongers. I'm not eating that ship. It has nothing to do with the quality of it. I just don't like it. So look, we all know you hunt and you eat a lot of wild game, but do you ever just like buy yourself a pack of Nathan's hot dogs? Like will you just eat like a hot dog like a dirty water cart dog from Philly? Yeah, I mean, like you know, if I'm somewhere where the opportunity to eat a hot dog like presents itself. You know, I'm not gonna be like, no, sir, I don't eat hot dogs, you know. And in the same yeah, I don't know. Man, leave me the gloane. It's a simple question. Do you eat hot dogs occasionally? It's not something I seek out. Okay, that's fine. My point is that, like, what the It's just like if you're schemed out about this tuna because it might have these chicken, cattle and pork whatever proteins in them, but you mean better about the tuna. There you go. I was kind of thinking the same thing. It's like, we didn't know what it was, and now at least we know, and it's the same thing in your average hot dog. If somebody calmed down, if somebody was like, do you want to eat this tuna that's not tuna? I would be more inclined to eat that than somebody going, do you want to eat this tuna that is tuna? Fair enough? Finally, last thought on this, okay, and this is true words right here. I vowed to never bring this up again. This is the last time we're doing subway Tuna. And here's why, a little open letter to Subway. I have devoted so much air time to standing next to you through this entire ordeal. Like I have defended you're hot dog Tuna for months. Have you said thanks, like reached out? How about a code I can pass along to the Bent listeners for one free tuna sandwich in a bag of in Son ships. No, nothing, So that's it. I will continue to consume your products, but I will not defend you on this podcast here anymore. Issue closed, Best of luck with the legal proceedings. Haydn, you had anything to say about that before we kick it over to Phil. No, no, man, that's pretty good. If we do get that Subway plug, I'm just letting you know it's all going to black forest him for me. Hidden will just have the Italian b MT. Anyway, Uh, Phil, a lot of stuff on the menu here. We kind of threw you off with a bunch of quick hits. We'll see what Phil liked this week, and then we are going to do a sale bin where we get to meet up with a dear old friend Joe. Thank you for the updates. I appreciate them, really, I do, I mean spread some of that breeze on a subway too. Now I'll be a happy man. But unfortunately you came in with two stories technically, and frankly that seems a bit unfair. It's not in the spirit of fish news. Sort of like bringing a gun to a uh you know. So, Hayden, you're the winner and shouts to the guy in Australia getting stabby with the crocodile. I hope you feel better soon. Frankly, you're the most badass thing to come out of Australia since Bluey and your parents out there with a Disney Plus subscription know what I'm talking about. Are out of Bluey and find out Why did you put the hand to pave You don't know what I'm getting, man, You didn't have to be so hurtful with me so angry. I'm excited for this sale, bin because it's not really about a new item for sale. Rather, we're just checking in with an old friend, if you will. It's like a it's like a where are they now? Um? And here's how this all came about. So I was trout fishing up in North Jersey not long ago, um, and just a few days prior we had like I'm major rain event out here, and all the rivers shot up, like serious flooding we're talking about, you know, a really small narrow river kicked up well above two thousand cfs for like a day and a half. Right, So I show up right after the drop, and I'm walking along and come upon a canoe that is pretty destroyed, right, Like, it's just it's just crumpled um. And you can tell when this thing came down from where wherever it started in this flood, I get t bone many trees in the process. So I immediately thought of Jerry, the Craigslist canoe salesman, the same Jerry that's ultimately responsible for our Billy wants a shotgun stickers, you know, Hayden wants a Billy wants the shotgun sticker. I still haven't got ye. Damn, that's horrible of me. I yeah, okay, I'll remedy that. So I remember like listening to these and I remember being suggested that you go visit Jerry and look at his canoes and have a cup of tea with him, because he lives really close to you, right he does. He lives right down the road. Um. And and as you pointed out, Yeah, Jerry ends every post about the current canoe for sale inviting you to come over, buy a canoe and have a cup of tea with us. Um, And we concluded that that Jerry really, you know, he wants a friend more than anything. Um, And he never posts a photo. You only get a text description and they are just wonderfully written. And the original Jerry sale bins ran in I think episode thirty five and forty, so we're going back aways and I kind of thought maybe a bunch of the Bent listeners forgot about old Jerry until I posted that shot of that beat up canoe and said Jerry would have this fixed up and on Craig's list of no time. Well I was wrong, right, Uh, you guys did not forget about Jerry. Here are a few of my favorite comments. Um, you have all winner to turn that in the next year's Doss Boat with Jerry, and you're gonna need a lot of team Okay, that was good. That's a fun one. Here's another one I like a lot. I think Jerry would pull that baby straight with a telephone pole and a truck, then have a damn good story about stopping traffic while doing it probably. Uh. Somebody else said I think Billy would take a shotgun over that canoe any day. Um. Another one said, see what happens when Billy doesn't get a shotgun? So all different approaches, you know, I didn't the one about Billy wanting a shotgun also kind of get like a little a little bit dark and suggestive. If he gets the shotgun, something real terrible is gonna happen. Yeah, like he's gonna kill people. I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure I did say that. But this is fine literature, Hayden that Jerry is writing. Jerry is a master of Craigslist prose um. Anyway, the response to my canoe photo got me wondering, is Jerry still selling? What's Jerry up to? Is there maybe a fresh Jerry post? And wouldn't you know it, there was. Jerry was active just in October um and up for grabs. This round is an old town tripper Royal X for four and I read, Hey, I've been away for a while. I was on a sign in and a bunch of sports illustrated swimsuit models captured me and used me as a love slave over an extended period of time. All Right, Jerry Jerry. I used this canoe to make my escape after a float by the volcanoes of the Canary Islands. I washed up in Strathmere, New Jersey. This canoe is the Royal X version with the original factory skids. It is seventeen feet long. It's in pretty good shape. The seeds could use a canning. This is a very rare piece and highly sought after. So uh, Jerry, Jerry is dating himself yet again, because I mean, is the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue even a thing anymore? Like? Is s I in print? Or did that die with pretty much all the rest of the print mags? You know, dude, I have no idea. Maybe fair fair? I yeah, I don't. I don't know either. I don't do sports. Um, but I'll date myself as well by saying that when I think of the SI Swimsuit issue, I still think of Kathy Ireland and when I was in the fifth grade, getting an SI swimsuit issue was the closest you came at that point to just like getting porn. It was a big deal, you know. I guess if we're like talking about like generational U S I swimsuit, you know, cover models I tend to think of like Kate Upton, like that was like high school. And I assume you don't know who Kathy Ireland is. I don't. I don't nowadays I think she has a beautiful line of throw rugs at Home Goods or something like that. The you know, I kind of loved the rest of this post. I read the post. When you send it over manum and you want to finish it, you want to? You want to, you want to bring it home? Yes, by all means, bring it home. Tell him what else Jared had to say? Okay, you contin use. If you have an interest in this canoe, go to your research, look it up on the web. This can do is a collector's item, but I could care less. I would be happy to see someone just using it. The weather has war and it's tea time again, so stop on by, have a look. I still have several other canoes about. Come, sit talk. Imagine yourself and the person you love drifting down Sylvian Sylvan's Sylvan Sylvian Sylvan Sylvan and drifting across a for million sea. Call me or text me or send a semaphore code piece be upon you what Jerry, Yeah, Jerry always manages to throw at least one term in there that I have to look up. In one of these, he used dause light and I was calling people dause lights for a while after that. Nobody knew it. But this time I had to look up semaphore, um, since he asked for a semaphore code, and a semaphore is any apparatus used for visual signaling, whether it be with fire lights, flags, sunlight, or moving arms. So semaphore. That's like kind of like your word of the week right there. All right? Go, uh well, hey, look man, the next time I come back out east, which should be soon for the holidays, uh, let's go visit Jerry together. Man, we should. You know, I would actually be more open to that, just in case Jerry actually has a shotgun. At least i'd have backup. But I'm truth truly, I'm betting Jerry's actually a very good guy, um, and he would probably really appreciate a billy wants a shotgun sticker. He has no idea any of this is happening, right, Just three times now he's been featured on the fishing podcast bent Um. But yeah, we'll give him a sticker. Maybe we even record with Jerry. We'll bring a couple of mikes and have a cup of tea, you know what I mean. Yeah, man, I'm all about it. We can do it. Um, And I'm i gotta say, man, I'm so happy to have been a part of an official Jerry sale Bin post. Yeah. It's an honor, isn't it. I feel as if I'm in hallowed ground in uh the circle of you know, bent illustrious folks. Anyhow, this is a friendly reminder that we rely on you guys, is to let us know what kind of weird, wacky fishing ship you're finding on your favorite online classified forums. And when you find a post is particularly good, send link to Ben at the meat Eater dot com because Billy wants to make more fun of people's attempts to make a profit. A man, it was good to hear from Jerry again. That was That was probably the least controversial Jerry post yet. Um. He didn't encourage giving kids guns or smoking while canoeing down some whitewater in this one, So you know, no, I guess that's like one Jerry that we've talked about on this podcast is encouraging smoking of anything. But if thank you. If you want some controversy, I could provide it. Oh, how's that with an end of the line segment about something that is both like revered and hated and I'm gonna say completely misunderstood and also catches more trout than pretty much any fly. You and I or anybody else do that matter? Good tie m. I have guesses. I could guess, but I won't. Well, good this Uh, this also sort of fits our tattoo theme because you have to poke it with a sharp object. Well, that's not loud enough. If you're like of other fishermen, particularly fly fishermen, Alaska is somewhere on your bucket list. If you ask an angler what they think of when they envision Alaska, you'll find a lot of the same images and species repeating Salmon runs so dense you could walk across the river on the backs of silvers and kings you know, Dolly Varden, longer than your arm and painted up like clowns and their full spawning regalia, steelhead of mythical proportions and their resident rainbow counterparts. Back flipping and cart wheeling out of the river, and sore shoulders from spending all days swinging flies, catching fish after fish, experiencing arguably the greatest cold water fishing the world has to offer. There's a little bit of an open secret in these rivers, almost as omnipresident as the fish we target, and it's as effective as it is divisive. My friends, that secret is the trout bead. Now, before we wade into the controversy surrounding the fishing of beads, let's talk about the beads themselves. For the uninitiated, a trout beat is a small spherical bead pegged with a toothpick about two inches above a bear hook. Beads can be fished on any briggs, spin, centerpin or fly. At first glance, the bead is pretty cut and dry. I mean it's literally just around beads, similar to the thousands of beads you'd find at the hobby lobby. In fact, I'm sure some anglers buy beads at the hobby lobby because there is an entire subculture dedicated to bead fishing that is as fanatical about colors, weight sizes, and hues as dry fly fishermen are trying to pick out that perfect shade of done for their quill. Gordon's All beads are not created equal, however, and anglers are fiercely devoted to their preferences glass versus plastic, peach verse orange, six millimeter or eight millimeter bead specific companies have made fortunes selling beads crafted with jealously guarded secret formulas for just the right color, sheen, and molting. You'll find grown men hoarding help polish, like teenage girls scouring pharmacies and makeup counters in their free time, looking for that perfect shade of red, pink, orange, or even blue for the all important blood dot. Now onto the controversy. We're not going to dive into whether or not it's fly fishing. That's between you, the fish, and a higher power. The real controversy is how the fish is hooked. To understand this, we first need to understand how a bead rig works. As I mentioned, a bead rig is a bear hook with a bead pegged about two inches up the leader. When the fish bites the bead, the angler sets the hook, and that hook, which is dangling outside the fish's mouth, is pulled into the outside corner of their jaw. Here's why that's controversial. Many people see the placement of that hook set outside the mouth and immediately equate that is evidence that this is no more than a legal means to floss or snag fish. Go ahead and search is bead fishing ethical on Google, and you'll find forums filled with heated eight page arguments between anglers debating the issue. I would argue that bead fishing is not floss ng or snagging for one simple reason. The fish has to voluntarily bite the bead in order to hook themselves. From my perspective, that alone settles the debate. Sporting ethics society, you'll often hear folks argue that beads are somehow damaging to the fish. Beads are deadly effective. But if there's one thing they're not, it's deadly. If you're into fish and catch and release, beads could very well be the most ethical tool at your disposal. Because the bead is pegged a few inches above the hook, the fish can inhale it without the danger of being hooked deeply. The hook set pulls the hook into the outside corner of its mouth, not into its gullet. Not only does this save the fish from having its gills ripped apart by a deeply taken yet apparently more ethical glow bug. It also saves a fish from the difficult hook removals that often come with a deep take. In fisheries where significant cold is a factor, like Great Lake steelhead fisheries, for instance, this can save a fish from flash frozen gills. It's simply easier to remove a hook from the outside corner of the steelhead's mouth without taking it out of the water. Now you might be thinking to yourself that I'm some sort of bead fishing evangelists. You may be surprised to know that I've only ever fished beads a handful at times. Unfortunately, I'm cursed with a bug for tieing bugs and plagued by the compulsion to use them. That said, I fished with many, many centerpin spin and fly anglers who all use beads. I've netted well over a hundred bead caught steel head, and in all that time, there are two things that I've seen, very very rarely, a deeply hooked fish or a fish hooked more than an inch or two from its mouth. Sorry, fly guys, I'll be the first to admit that I've pulled a lot of pheasant tales and soccer spawn from peck fins. H Yes, the bad debate, whether or not we all agree one day remains to be seen. But as long as there are people catching fish, they're going to be folks complaining about how they're going about it. Are you a big guy feverishly painting until the wee hours of the morning while you gear up for your next steal head trip? Are you a fly fishing purist who thinks of beats for the undoing of everything a sportsman stands for. Whatever your position, be sure to drop us a note at bent at the meat eater dot com letting us know where you stand on the bad debate and if, perhaps for the first time, a beat ends up at the end of your line. So that's it for this week. A few things to keep in mind if you're studying the flash wall and deciding what to get in to trout beads with a toothpick between them might not translate properly. A full body Cathy Ireland tattoo is fine, but you're not allowed to do that unless you've seen necessary roughness. Dan Santro isn't sure how to spell the name of the fly shop. He co owns and Hayden Samic wants you to tell him what fish he should get emblazoned on his upper rib cage. Yeah, I'm extremely open to ideas or maybe sort of open to ideas. Um, And you could go right ahead and send those two bent at the meat eator dot com along with your awkward photos. Sale bin items bar nominations of voice memos and favorite nail polished colors for your favorite trout beads nets toss by my d