00:00:02 Speaker 1: Big cutty on a stone fly. My ass, you're pulling the maps behind an RC cigarette boat. W t F. How can you screw up with fish taco? But it doesn't matter. Like I am who I am and I come from where I come from. Those are not sandals. MG. Are you Dan W from Fishing Adventtions with Dan w? Oh my god, Good morning, degenerate anglers, and welcome to Bent the Fishing podcast with as much nutritional value as Ecto cooler. I'm Joe Surmelli A Miles Nulty and I really have not thought about an Ecto cooler since I was in Coventry school. I'm serious, Like that is you dusted off some old memories with that. Was it like just capri Son with Ghostbusters packaging? Yeah, that's all it was. It was a high sea product. It was delicious, Okay, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's probably a million of reasons why that's like not FDA approved for kids now, but if they still made it out by it, I liked it and they paid, you know, they paid perfectly. With lunchables. You and I were of the air when when lunchables were revolutionary, a special treat you know, remember having when having a lunchable made you a cool kid? Did you get lunchables? No? God, no, my my. I did not have the mom that was gonna give me lunchables, just like I'm making you a sandwich. There's want lunchables? I got, I got, can't. I've also ended up fishing and destination so disconnected that lunchables were the only logical thing to buy, Like the one gas station in town, and then it comes from from deep South Texas and we ate him for four days straight. Anyway, these days, luckily, it's no longer slimy rounds of mystery turkey that fuels us, though, is it? That's true? Grown Up Miles and Joe, as well as this podcast are fueled entirely by Black Rifle Coffee. There's absolutely nothing mysterious about their premium blends, and there's no strange mouth feel associated with enjoying a steaming up of their a K Espresso or Silencer Smooth. Agreed. Agreed. And if you want to join the new cool kids club that doesn't require you to buy lunchables, you guys should head over to Black Rifle Coffee dot com backslash meat Eater and get set up with their subscription service, or just go ahead and buy lots of bags, and when you're doing that, drop the promo code meat Eater to get off your first order. So we actually do get to be part of the cool kids club today, just in a in a very different capacity. I mean, alright, well, let's put it away. I feel like a cool kid today because we got the legendary and highly respected Tom Rosenbauer of Orvis to agree to hang out with us here at Bent, which is strange and amazing. I feel like a cool kid because of that. And you and I have both known Tom for years, and I still feel like a cool kid when Tom's like, all right, I'll hang out with you for a while. You know. But but he's such a good dude, and he's one of those guys that just exudes ang to acknowledge, you know. I mean, he's written so many books and he's constantly doing live tying sessions and answering questions. But rather than you know, harness that wealth of knowledge to make you better anglers, we basically just asked Tom to trash somebody. Is the plan? Pretty much, opportunity squandered. Pretty much. We're gonna we're gonna reverse the polarity of our Smooth Moves segment this week, and instead of letting a guide or captain rant about stupid things clients have done, We're letting Tom Phillis in on the worst guide he's ever fished with. Why Why So we're gonna do something a little different on Smooth Moves this week. Very happy to have a very esteemed guest with us here, Mr Tom Rosenbauer, friend of mine and Miles of ORBS fame. How are you, sir? Hey Joe, Hey, Miles, how you doing. We're great to see you, man, Yes, man, and appreciate you taking time out of your busy schedule. Well I'm not that busy. I'm happy to be here. Come on, you're gonna make it sound like you're working harder. I'll sell yourself out. You have, you have tying videos to make and for the yeah, for the legions of fans. But anyway, normally on Smooth Moves we have a captain or a guide on here venting about some ridiculous thing a client has done over the years, and we figure this is a good opportunity to sort of reverse roles a bit, because you are a well traveled man you have fly fished all over the world, fished with tons of guides. So today we're gonna flip the coin and give you a chance to tell us about the worst guide that you ever fish with. The worst guide story. So you have the Mike Tom all right. You know it's a really hard one because you've been in the industry as long as I have you, you get heads up about bad guides, and you know, typically, um, I get I get good guys. I mean it's hard for me to remember a really bad guide. Um Uh, they're so much nicer than me. Yeah, I mean, I really, I mean guys are I mean, guys, these days are so great. Um, I think the most disappointing guide trip I've ever had John Combs, John Combs orvis Um Rod and real designer who's one of my favorite fishing buddies. That I were down to Florida for the BTT Symposium and we got a day with a with a guide out of Miami, and so we showed up at the dock at you know, like eight thirty, which to me is you know, half the day's gone. It's gonna say it sounds kind of late. Yeah, And I in fish Fish game Bay in a long time. He took us out there and it was kind of windy and rainy, and he said, uh, do you mind if I were looking for both fishing permit? He said, you know, I think we should chum today. And I said, well, yeah, it'd be kind of fun. You know. Nordinarily I'd say no, but it was miserable day, and you know, just let's have some fun. Let's chump and see what comes up. And I think Shaun and I caught a couple of puffer fish. That was it. We started to see who catch the most puffer fish and then that was over and he said, boy, it's getting windy out here, and we said yeah, yes sort of. He said, that's fishing is gonna be very good. And Sean and I you know, we we love to fish. We fish hard. I said, well, you need places with some lady fish, you know, or something we could throw to the late I like lady Yeah, going to Harvard and throw some lady fish. And we went and we caught a couple of lady fish and it was about eleven thirty and he said, well, do you think it's time to call it? And neither Shaan nor I said a war or we just kind of looked at each other and said, w t F. What are we going to do for the rest of the day. Put in a whole three hours of guiding there. Yeah, and then he took us in and and we asked him for a restaurant recommendation where we were staying, and so he gave us a restaurant recommendation which was very close to the hotel we were staying at. And just to top it off, this was and I'm not that fussy about restaurants, this was the worst restaurant. How can you screw up a fish taco? And I had I had, I had like four margarite is and I swear none of them had in the alcohol in it. I kept to hope that I'd get a little bit of tequila in it. Um. Yeah, So but I have to ask, No, did he know who you were, like, who you guys were, and who you were with and what you do he was an order guide? Oh no, not any of my doing. But he's no longer person. So I'm compelled to ask, man, when you were guiding, were you one of those dudes that was really hard line about time? Like not that I've been on many half day trips, and even though I understand that you get what you pay for, it's always bothered me a little when it was like, okay, we're done, even if the action was fire like, no matter what, you know that dude is back to the dock by two pm, not to fIF not to two pm on the nose, you know, I mean the length I will here's what I'll say. The lengths of guide days, at least for me and a lot of people I know, correlate with how enjoyable the clients are to be with. Let's just put it back, like if if I was dealing with super obnoxious people who just you know, the hours felt like minutes. We hit the ramp at five pm at the latest, it was like we're done. Uh. But you know, if I was enjoying, like if I was having a good time fishing with whomever was in my boat and we're enjoying our time together, we just fish and we got back. When we got back, you know, it might be dark if fishing was good. That that's how I always ran it well, and that's the way to play it. I think that's fair. You were one of the good ones, and I know a lot of that's that's what a lot of guys do, which should be motivation to not be one of the smooth moves people like. The story should not be about you, right, be cool to your guide. And I'm also sure, unlike Tom's guide, you could also recommended damn Good Bar. In fact, I know you could have more than one. And you know who else can recommended damn good Bar. You folks at home are dozens of listeners, and we have a ringer this week, not even kidding around. Here comes one hell of a thrashing nomination for That's My Bar, Best God Damn Bar tender from Kim buck to to Portland's Maine Portland argument for that matter, Today's That's My Bar Submissi and comes to us from Nick Silva, and I gotta say Nick must have had one hell of a freshman English teacher, because he seems to have learned rule number one for effective writing. Know your audience. Listeners to this podcast have probably picked up on the fact that both Joe and I are children of the nineties, with particular sauce spots for metal, punk and hardcore bands from that era. Nick clearly picked up on that, which is why he knew that he had to send this submission for June Lake Brewing. Yeah, I'll just jump in before you get to the description, like this one comes with whip lash, like the kind of whip lash that a lot of us haven't had in fifteen twenty years. Okay, but it inspired me to kick out some old jams. And now my neck hurts, so ah, can't turn your head left it right anymore? Exactly? All right here it is, here's what Nick sent us. Located in June Lake, California, this brewery is the beer hub of the eastern Sierra Nevadas. Everyone from back country years to the old fishing guides telling stories about the twenty one pound brown trout and silver lake are mingling at the bar. If you show up around opening, the server would usually have an Alpine lake fly report for you. He starts his day with a twelve mile round trip hike up the mountain to fish, followed by beer shots for whoever is at the brewery when they open. Most days they have a rad Slayer playlist going on. Visit the restroom to check out. The employees must carve Slayer into forearms before returning to work. Sticker, It's so brilliant. Uh, Nick close out of the email with a photo of that sticker and uh and if you want to see it for yourself, which which you should go to either Joe's or my Instagram accounts. That's at Joe dot Sir Meli one and at water Miles, respectively. And if anybody knows where to purchase that sticker or how even better yet, because sticker shouldn't be purchased, they should be free how miles and I can get one of those for free, I would just I would just love to have that because it's like I've always I've been saying it for years. Nothing goes with alpine fly fishing like war ensemble cranked up to its Two things don't belong in the same sentence. But that's why this plays is so great. And I gotta say to the the to the brewery owner, UM good for that he can drink as much beer as he wants, because if he's hiking twelve miles a day to fish alpine trout, he can do all the taste. Like he's not couch tripping, so it's not gonna make him fat. Like that's that's terrific. That's the thing. Man like even if it weren't for the metal band references, which which clearly I appreciated this, this one would be able to make a strong case for a near perfect bar for me. Fresh brewed beer, check backcountry skiing and skiers, check fishing guides my people. Check a bartender who fishes alpine lakes in the morning and gives beer shots in the afternoon. Done. This one is like top of my list right now. It'd be worth flying out there just just to feel like I belong for the first time, and because I just it just takes me back to my bar hopping days, with the digital jukeboxes where you put your money in but the que could be backed up so you might not hear your songs for a while. Me and my boys would be in these bars, would be like bit in the jams and then I kicking the wheel in the sky and an hour later Angel of Death would just drop in. But the bartenders could manipulate those digital jukeboxes, and I don't know how many times a bartender would be like nope, Like the whole bar would be like, come on, so this is this, this is where I belong, This is where we belong. But listen, Nick fabulous submission. You guys have been doing a tell of a job sending this bar nominations and we appreciate them very very much. Please keep them coming so we could nominate your favorite fishy watering holes. Send those two bent at the meat eater dot com. Have you ever been to a Slayer show? Sadly no Pantera. Yes, huh see, I've been to a few. In terms of mosh pits and just general audience aggression, I found the Slayer shows to be completely brutal, and that's I'm jealous of you. I did not know you had seen Pantera because I never got to see Pantera. But I've heard that a Pantera show was just the next level of brutal. What it made Slayer look like romper Room, But unfortunately I never got to see him live. Chaos Man pure cast I saw. I saw Pantera on the Vulgar Display of Power Tour. Yeah. I heard it was like scary, Like even if you were a hardass metal dude, you're like Panters that there there there ship's scary. It was. It was next level, like there were no rules. You could if you could get to the front, you could climb up on stage and stage dive like whatever whatever you were brave enough to do was legit. It was the most brutal mosh scene of all time. But you know what else is brutal? I have a feeling I do know. Tell me Lance V. That's what's brutal. But as brutal as I find his name Jabber to be. We just keep kidding these questions and feedback about the guy. The topic he's covering this week in Trolling with Lance does at least show that he has a human side. I mean, his heart may look like those autopsy pictures of Smoker's lungs, but at least he has one and we know that now. So here's a tender, somewhat lifetime made for TV movie moment on how Lance deals with the price of fame, the land, to the boats, to the like, to the seating up the n on net, but the boy lands, Oh lot, peradadors. It's me, your buddy, Lance, be here to cancel you on your journey to Internet fishing. Start um. We've been getting a ton of questions from you, guys, many of whish made me feel so bad for you that I shot Monster Rehab out of my nose from laughing hysterically, But since I consider myself a faith he er, I shall not judge. Keep those questions coming to Bent at the Mediator dot com. This week's question comes from Dan W, who writes that douchebag online fishing trol y'all put on was horrible. Please never do that again, though, I'm wondering how he handles getting recognized on the water. As my YouTube channel is nearing a hundred and twenty nine subscribers, this is a concern I have for myself. A terrific question, Dan. Part of being a successful internet angler is giving the impression you only fish where the common folk don't. At this point in my career, Indiana Jones couldn't figure out where the guy fish. But I'm gonna assume you're still fishing the parking lot of the same county puddle you've gone to for your entire life. So here's what to do when a fan approaches you and says, O, MG, are you Dan W from Fishing Adventures with Dan W. Oh my god, I can't believe you fish? Are you say? I don't really fish here. I'm just field testing a new lure or rod. Decide if it's worth taking the brand on as a sponsor, and this toilet bowl happened to be on the way to the airport hashtag business class. Or you can go to the nostalgic route and say I used to fish here when I was a kid. We used to catch seven pound hogs left and right. But I see this place has gone to total ship. I just swung in because I have time to kill before the new lexus I bought. My mom gets a liver to her house hashtag where do your mother? In either case, the objective is to make the fan understand you're actually too good to be fishing this spot, thereby inferring he or she is a complete loser. I hope this was helpful, Dan and allows you to reclaim the serenity you seek instead of constantly feeling like the guy who played the liquid Terminator walking around comic Con. Hashtag shoot for the moon. If you miss, you'll land among the stars. Hashtag that was terrible advice. Hashtag I can't believe we're contractually obligated to have him on the show. Hashtag looks forget that just happened, and move on to fish news right now. Fish news that escalated quickly, so I want to kick this off with a few fan shout outs. Not long ago I covered a little news piece on the famed mullet toss in Florida, where drunk people throw dead bait fish cross state lines, and Miles and I had questions in particularly what were the rules for for throwing and can you say craft a slingshot or trebor sche perhaps and as predicted you find people provided the answer. Frank Williams wrote in to say, you have to throw it, but you can throw it however you feel. However you feel it never feels right to you whatever that fish speaks to you and says, throw me like this exactly. And he says there's a board at the at the mullet toss demonstrating the most common ways. I could not find that, but did learn it cost fifteen bucks to throw them. Allett pop, which begs more questions byd was gonna I was gonna say, which begs more questions like what if I bring my own mullet comedy and exactly, And and then follow that up, we got a note from Grant Russell in Australia, so that's now pushing like half dozen Australian fans and you wrote, I don't want to be one of those one upsman kind of guys, but I thought i'd bring your attention to the tuna tossing event at the Tuna Rama Festival in Port Lincoln, Australia, because the Aussies are just more manly than Yes, I said you would level it up thesses. But apparently Grant says they held a fake tune of these days, weighing twenty two pounds, real tuna are no longer being thrown, imagine, much to the delight of the seafood buyers from Japan who have stood outside protesting the event for decades, hundreds of signs saying please save the tune of parentheses for us. Anyway, So let's get into news and remember, kids, this is a competition. Miles and I do not know which stories the other dude has and are awesome. Engineer Phil will declare a news victor at the end. And now I'm scared because for the first time last week we overlapped, we crossed stories and I crushed you. Yes you did, and it was traumatic all around. It was it was kind of an awkward moment I was bound to happen. It took twelve episodes, but now I'm on edge, especially considering I'm kicking off with a story out of Montana. Yeah, but you got the leadoff man, You're you're, you're, You're sitting pretty on this one, I know. But do you have a story out of Montana? I'm not telling you. I feel I feel good about my record of overlap right now, so I'm just gonna hold tight with that one. Fair enough, fair enough. So um. This is from the website of the Helena Independent Record headlold on, hold on, hold on, hold on? How did you just pronounce our state capital Helena? There we go, all right, moving on, I said Helena, definitely not Helena anyway. From the website of the Helena Independent Record headline Montana proposes ban on fishing with drones and remote control boats. First of all, shame on you. Is this what you guys are doing out there? No big big cutty on a stone fly my ass. You're pulling the maps behind an RC cigarette boat and I've just outed all of you. Finally, I wish I could be that cool. No. Yeah, so I am very glad. So I'm aware of this, this this passage, and I'm very happy about it for the record, like we can, we can riff on it and make jokes, but uh, it's part of a broader sort of move that they're doing with Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks to outlaw drones for fishing, hunting, all kinds of stuff, and I'm I'm all for it. Oh, this is gonna be an interesting back and forth then, because I have I have a slightly different take, and this is why we work well together. So from the story, the state of Montana is asking the public to weigh in on whether drones and remote control boats should be banned for fishing, and the Montana Fish and Wildlife Commission recently advanced for public comment a proposal prohibiting the use of drones and r C boats to place bait or lures, troll or hook and land fish. The proposal also bars using the devices to search for fish that are then cast two with a rotten reel. So apparently game wardens in your state have been getting more and more questions regarding the legality of drones in our C boats for fishing. Now, Interestingly, the story makes it sound to me like this is a pretty sporadic occurrence in Montana, Like it's not happening that much. However, thanks to YouTube, the methods overall are growing in popularity because there's a you know, a bunch of Yahoo's out there doing this and putting it on video. Uh. But the issue is that this is sort of like a gray area within the law. This is from the story again. In general, laws and regulations contain specific prohibitions against the use of guns, traps, or quote, other devices. But anglers routinely used devices such as down riggers right to place their baits or lures, and an argument could be made that the drones or remote control boats perform a similar function. Uh. And this was given to go ahead, to be open to public comment and possibly leading to a a public hearing. And um, you know some supporters, as you've already hinted at, are saying, well, we have drones outlawed for hunt, which I understand that's kind of cheating to scout a piece of land or something. In hunting they need to do it in fair fair, but they need to do it in fishing to just for consistency sake, Like, if we're gonna outlaw that in hunting, the outlaw that and fishing. And then um, Clayton Elliott of Montana Trot Unlimited. He's a fan of the public comment because he believes it's just important to quote search and find the nexus between angling tactics and our mission to preserve and protect cold water fisheries. So here are a few thoughts, and this is where we're gonna have a little fun. Uh. First of all, the euro carpet dudes have been using RC boats to run baits and and drop bait piles in their swims for years. That's actually not new or a gimmick. Those boats have actually become adopted as legit tackle in that game. Like you know, some guys can only afford the sling shot. The real dudes get the remote control boat to send their their their wad of boats a flying right. Um. But personally see and generally speaking, I find this a little little hypocritical. And hear me out right. I will never fish with a drone. I will never drag the maps behind a little boat. Neither will you. But in my opinion, like, if that's how you get your jollys, have at it. And I say it's hypocritical because if we you want to ban small RC vehicles to what protect fish Meanwhile, you've got forty boats putting in at the ramp that have side scanned down scan, auto down riggers, I pilot spot lock, and real time bottom mapping capability. So point being, in my opinion, if you want to ban technology to sort of preserve fisheries, like ban that ship. We we all complain about how much harder it is to catch fish nowadays, but like we've we've already given them nowhere to hide. So for me, like, it's not the dude with the Walmart boat or the radio shack making a YouTube video that concerns me, it's the guy who's got more tech than NASA on his ranger. You make a compelling argument, Joe, and uh, and my response is not gonna be based in logic. I'll just tell you that right now because because I can't argue with it. Like all, everything you just said is totally straight up spot on, but I still am opposed to it. And my argument has more to do with how I like. My argument has to do with not infringing upon other people's enjoyment of the outdoors. To me, drones flying around the river or the lake are annoying as hell has become somewhat popular on on on the trout rivers around here, guys will be on their guided trip, you know, and the guide's own and the guy dudes are fishing or ladies whomever. The anglers are fishing in the front the back, and they have their drone programmed to follow behind them down the river so that they don't miss any of their great fishing footage. And I find it just highly annoying. So for me, you're right, it has nothing to do with like protecting the fisher. Conservation has to do with protecting my own sense of what I enjoy being outside and not wanting to hear the worrying of little blades all the time. And I see that totally, and I we are on the same page. It's funny because have done work where a drone is involved. It's like, when the drone is doing the work for you, you're like, oh, this is sweet. But whenever you're out there and like a drone flies over you and you don't know where it comes from, I instantly want to like shoot it down with the shotgun. Yeah, I hate I really dislike it. But and and you make a valid point, but is that like now you're getting into the argument of do we just ban drones? I mean, you know what I mean, especially like if you're talking about the dude with the follow me mode on the river he's not even using that has nothing to do with nothing to fishing its later on. I would I mean, on a totally personal level, I would love that, but I recognize that there are reasons why it's not all about me. So I'm in favor of this legislation passing. We'll see if it actually does. I don't think it's gonna protect fish the only way I could see it, and this is a totally minor use case, and I don't think it would have any impact at all. But just I hate the idea of someone sitting in their truck sending up a drone, running it up and down, being like, are the fish rising? Let me go check it out. I don't want to. I don't actually want to walk or put in like the effort to go find them. That's the only thing I can think. And I don't think it would impact the fish or at all. It's just again purely for my own sense of moral superiority and judgment and for the record that dudes it showed and I hate that guy. But when you're looking at it from like a protection thing, it's like, you know, it's hard to spin it in a like environmental concerns too, because there's a lot worse things that can end up on the bottom of a lake, river, ocean than a sunken drone or a toy boat, like I don't know, outboard fuel and oil and busted off lead. So I'm totally with you with the annoyance factor, and like, I hate that guy when I see that guy, but I just think it's too hard to skin is like this, this technology is too unfair for fishing. No, side scan sonar is too unfair for fishing. Yeah, no, again, I have no I have no qualms with your logic, and I won't conspute it. I won't, Okay, I'm gonna, however, stick with the theme of technology changing the way we've fish and changing fish, all right, So I think this one should be filed under the headline researchers write paper about phenomenon anglers have known for centuries, call it a discovery the Royal Society, which is a real name for an actual peer reviewed biology journal. I guessed, uh, I guess elitists quarterly was already taken just published a paper informing the world of some breaking news phish change their behavior in response to fishing pressure. You don't say, you don't say yep, okay, So that's not the interesting part of the story. You know that, I know that anyone who's ever walked past the TV while the fishing show was playing knows that we've thankfully moved on from the once common belief that fish memories only last for thirty seconds. That has been thoroughly debunked, and this new study continues to reinforce what everyone who's ever attempted to catch a fish in a popular spot already knows. But this study didn't actually focus on sport fishing. It looked at marine fish populations responses to modern commercial fishing practices, specifically, how some commercial fleets fly drones around the ocean until they locate large schools of fish, then drive boats right to them and wrap them all up in nets. It's it's an incredibly efficient method of harvest. Well, it seems that some marine fish populations are starting to adapt to this new predatory pressure. They're not schooling in the same ways that they have traditionally. The researchers noted fish populations splitting into smaller groups and more fish moving individually or in pairs, And I find this freaking fascinating. Yeah, me too, Right, fish have adapted their social behaviors in order to avoid getting eaten. Like that's that's one of the main functions of swimming in a school safety and numbers, right. But but with modern phishing methods, the fish that school are the ones getting scooped, And the researchers hypothesized that because this new form of human predation selects for fish that are less social, the individuals who are not inclined to school or favorite smaller schools are surviving and passing on their traits and behaviors to their offspring. Which, again, mind body, so cool. Do you realize that you've just done? Go ahead, finish? App Yeah, let me finish. The long term implications of this are totally unknown. Schooling fish developed the social traits over millions of years because they've worked. Not only are fishing schools better at avoiding their natural aquatic predators, but a separate study published last month in Nature Communications showed that fish swimming in a school expends significantly less energy because they can draft behind each other. So what might happen to these populations if phishing pressure changes their long evolved behaviors. We really don't know, And this could also be bad news for fishing industry, which is currently relying on those massive, highly visible fish schools to make their profit margins. So what you've just done here is you've given all like, I'll just relate it to to striper guys like I ain't seen a blitz since that's why. That's why right there, because they don't school up anymore now, dude, it is it is incredibly fascinating that we have hit the ocean so hard that we are changing schooling behavior. Yeah, like we are in it's it's just like natural selection. To me geek out on that stuff. It's it's it's amazing to watch. But seeing how human predation behaviors, which are new predation behaviors the fish and never seen before, changing the way that fish live and act is I don't know. I mean, it's said, but it's also just really interesting. Well, and I think both of our stories so far like they tie together beautifully. Like we're talking about side scan and down scan. These guys are using drones to find is for commercial purposes, and even that a drone has made that job more efficient. Back in the day, like the day day, dude, the commercial fleets would hire pilots to go out there and and fly around. But now even that I always took it like, um, the operations that that really had their ship dialed had the money to have their spot or planes and all that. But still it was not everybody was doing that. Now every commercial fleet probably has a drone guy on it or that. That's just such a common thing and it's gotten so much easier to do that. It all ties together, man, It's it's it's those stories sort of go hand in hand because it's it's all about, like, is technology, both on the recreational and commercial side making us too efficient? Are we too efficient at what we can do now? I mean yes, but how do you stop right exactly exactly? You you don't stop that? And that's that's the frightening thing. But um, yeah, anybody who's planned about not seeing the blitzing fish of any kind there you go blame the drones. All things come back. So I'll move it from schooling fish to very solitary fish. And what I classifies like a weekly World News style story. However, it's just from Yahoo dot com, which is essentially the same thing. Um headline Fisherman discovers ugly frowning human like fish colon quote it was looking at me. So this happened in Thailand and the and the story. The story says fisherman press sort Shookle caught the unidentified pail fish, which had massive human like lips and bulging blue eyes. To make matters even creepier, the creature appeared to have a shocked expression after it was captured. So this fish wade two point seven kilograms that six pounds in American numbers, and was forty two centimeters long that's seventeen inches in American numbers. Hugo said it was dead by the time he had returned to shore. So I'm gonna throw a shot at this up on my Instagram story today. But but basically, this is a squat fish that's all mouth. So picture an angler fish or a monk fish, if you know what those look like. It's similar to that huge mouth, small body. Now, this dude caught this weird fish in a crab trap, and homeboy says, I almost threw everything back into the water. When I saw the scary fish, it was looking at me and it had a face like an ugly frowning human. It had big lips but no teeth. Nobody knew what this creature was in our village, including the elders. I did not dare to cook it for myself or anybody else. So what the hell is it? Well? A local marine center visited Shukel to examine the fish, and they believe it could be a Pola Carriss fish. It would explain the horrifying expression Paula Harris bury their heads in the sand with their mouths open to catch tiny fish. But I instantly reckon now is this is something completely different? In fact, I researched Poula Carras fish and I got zero hits. Man like that seems to not exist. So either Yahoo has a typo or marine biologists in Thailand and have no idea what the hell they're talking. It looks to me instantly like a lighter, paler skin tone version of the Northern star gazer. But there are many kinds of star gazers all over the world, and they make up the Urano Scopaday families, and some of them can actually get up to forty inches long. And star gazers, no doubt, they're ugly and weird, right, But I don't really think it looks that much like a human. You've seen the shot like it does. I'm looking at it right now. Yeah, it's frowning, but that that part sensationalized. But catching it in a crab trap makes sense because they do spend most of their time buried in the sand or mud and just their eyes are sticking out, so they don't move much. They don't they don't chase stuff. And I've caught a handful of Northern star gazers over the years, but it's rare, and it's always in the surf. When you're you're sitting on a chunk, you have a clam or cut baits sitting out there dead stick. Right. They don't fight. It's literally like reeling in a paper bag full of sand. But stargazers are both venomous and can give you an electric shock, no way, right, So they have spikes on their gilt gil plates that that will dose you up, and if you step on their head you get shocked. And I've gotten that shock and it is not pleasant. And while they don't have the wattage of like an electric eel right, it's one of those like spine tingling, I don't even know, like like pit of the stomach, bar feelings you get when you like stub your toe real bad and like break your toenail off. It's just like like as soon as it happens, you know, like you're just out there swimming with the kids, and you're like, ah, like you know what I mean. Like it's just like so I've I've experienced that. And that's relevant to point out because Schooko gave the fish to the wildlife center fearing it could bring him bad luck. And I would have been more concerned about the venom in the electric shock than luck. But that's just me. So that's when we got there, shook smart move not starting. No. Actually I read that they are delicacy like the venom. Once you get away from the the venom is apparently neutralized. Uh if you cook them. I don't know anybody around here who eats them. You don't see them very much, but they are strange and the ones we have here are very starkly modeled, black and white. Actually a very interesting fish. I gotta give you a lot of credit on that story, Joe, that that I mean, I still want to win, but the fact that you took like the sensationalized headline did your own identifications were like, now, the biolog just got it wrong. I know what that is. Come into fin clips like I could save Stargazer for fin clips, but it can always come back. It can always come back. Um. Yeah, I have no good transition from that into what I'm going to talk about other than you talked about a fish and I'm going to talk about some other fish that live on a different continent. Right, more specifically, I'm gonna talk about some fish that live on on this continent in our greatest waterways of all least freshwater walkways. All right, So back in there were a few different studies published that showed mercury levels in Great Lakes fish we're holding steadier, in some cases rising. And some of you might be thinking, duh, everybody knows the Great Lakes are like this polluted wasteland. Didn't want of them like catch on fire or something, And yes, that used to be the case. But uh, but if if you're up on kind of contemporary happenings, the Great Lakes represent one of the best examples of conservation success that we have in this country. Ever since the passage of the Clean Water Act, the waters and fisheries quality of the Great Lakes has improved exponentially. Lake Erie, which was considered a dead zone that that's that was a term that was used, a dead zone for aquatic life in v is a thriving ecosystem now and and you see that trend all across the lakes. Not only are the fish back, but the levels of pollutants mercury included are low howlow. According to Sarah Jansen, a research chemist with the U S Geological Survey, we're seeing some of the lowest concentrations of mercury in waters and sediments that the Great Lakes have ever seen. So that begs the question, why are the mercury levels in the fish not going down? And that's what Ryan Lapac, researcher for the National Science Foundation, is trying to figure out. The short answer, according to the Pack, is invasive species and ecosystems changes. Though the lakes now have far fewer pollutants, they are home to many invasive species like sea lampreys, ale wives, carp zebra muscles, and gobies, and those last two in particular might explain this this conundrum that we're looking at. A single tiny zebra muscle will filter gallons of water a day, so so they're they're like little miniature pollution magnets, and there are millions of those muscles. That could be a good thing. Since the vast majority of native fish in the Great Lakes don't eatzebra muscles, they could be sequestering all those pollutants and taking them out of the food chain, except for this other invasive species, small fish called gobies. Gobies do eat zebra mussels, and just about everything eats gobies, So what's happening is that the remaining pollution in the system now has this incredibly efficient pathway right into the food chain. According to the pack, another factor that helps explain why we're not seeing a drop in mercury levels and fish is that the Great Lakes are both cold and hospitable. That means the fish grow slowly, but they can live a really long time, giving them lots of years to to to build up their mercury deposits. The takeaway here is actually a positive one, even though it doesn't sound like it at first. The Great lakes are much much clear than they used to be. And while the levels of mercury are remaining steady in the fish, and that's concerning, the levels still aren't so high that you shouldn't eat any anything that lives in there. Right, like fish lower in the food chain, perch, whitefish, they have they still have relatively low levels of contaminants. Bigger fish like lake trout, they can still be eaten safely. You just want to limit your consumption to one meal a week, and you know, don't bring him as an appetizer to a baby shower. Right. Long term, if we keep the lakes clean, these fish will eventually flush out too. We just haven't got there yet. Well, and this one kind of hits home for me because I've spent a lot of time on Lake Erie in particular, I love fishing out of Buffalo Harbor, and um, I only know it as having been cleaned up, But you hear all these stories from the old time are about just what a sludge pit that lake was for so long. And this is very interesting because zebra muscles in particular, this highly invasive thing that that nobody wants, but also nobody can deny how much they have contributed to cleaning up Lake Erie, exactly right. But I mean, and and knowing a lot of guys that fish there, you know, it's like it's always a trade off, Like they've affected bait fish migrations and so it is a trade off. But um, that is fascinating because you're like, yes, so I get it. These muscles are making themselves a little concentrated mercury ball and the gobies. Dude, when you go up there to fish, I don't care if you're lake trout fishing, small mouth fishing, most of the time you are trying to imitate a gobie. You go up there with a brown tube, brown, little purple, little blurple tube up there, Niagara River, on Lake Ontario, anywhere in Lake Erie. Most of the time you are trying to imitate a gobie. So good on these guys for figuring out that connection there. Um, and I don't really know how to expand all other than to say, like, boy, like yes for that. That does make a lot of sense because every one of those muscles is just like a tide pod of of bad ship that is essentially making the entire lake cleaner. But but I actually most guys will tell you the gobies are a worse problem than the muscles. They much rather have the muscles and get rid of the gobies. Yeah, I mean, I could go there's a hole of the rabbit hole, I go down with the gobies replacing other forage. Based on why that's an issue, I'm not. I'm not going to get into that because we just don't have time, and that wasn't the point of the story. But I found that one really interesting to say, you know, we had this conundrum, what the lakes are cleaner? Why aren't the fish cleaner? And and the fact that that someone has possibly they think figured it out that that one was another one I do stories today that I was like, Wow, that's really interesting. I hope that everybody out there is as geeky as I am and find that as interesting as I do. Um, we we both see well this week, and I don't know, I'm just gonna win. I don't either, feel phil you have your work cut out for you. And you know what, if if I lose this week, I feel like I went down swinging and I will still feel feel good about myself. It's not like it's not like one of those weeks where you tanked and you come in like I don't have it. I feel good. I think we both came with the heat this week. And if you lose this week, you're gonna lose twice because as soon as we hear from Phil, we're moving on to our our second installment of awkward moments in angling. I took a beating compared I was compared to Joey Buttafuco last week. This week, I got some pictures from Miles mom, and we're gonna have a little fun at his expense. Wow. Um, great showing from both of you. You guys really brought your a games this week. Unfortunately, uh, this is just too close for me to call right now. I mean, we've still got a ton of votes coming in from Maricopa County and Georgia is looking like a real nail biter, so stay tuned. Actually, on second thought, I will just give the crown to whichever one of you makes Lance V a hanging chad. When did you take a picture in a lab black? So payback suck, and now it's my turn to shame Miles. This is our second installment of awkward Moments in fishing, and here's the fun part of the photo I'm about to describe. Right by itself, it's just kind of a cute family shot. But once you learn that this served as the Nulti family Christmas card, in which I have come to understand, it levels up a notch. And since it's a family photo, one has to get a sense of all the characters and and you, you, sir, will have the chance to tell me what I got wrong at the end. But but what's fun about this is I get to paint my perception of your past in this moment, and then you get to tell us what I totally have inaccurate. I can't wait to see how you do a psychological breakdown in my childhood through this photos. I did my best. I enjoyed this. This is a this is a fun I enjoyed this very much. So I'm gonna start with eight year old Miles, who is rocking a full on Canadian tuxedo. Though you lose a few points though, because the gray stonewashed jean jacket kind of clashes with the classic lee dungaree blue jeans, so like it's all denim, it's just not cohesive denim. Okay. Points re earned, however, for the reef style flip flops, because you're not one of those kids rocking the sandals with the built in ankle braces like most kids wear, but minus one more point. We're having the cuffs of the jeans rolled up way too high. Like that's like that's the gene. Cuffs are rolled way too high for a young man. That's weak and the particularly that time. Those are not sandals. Those are slippers. Yeah, no, you don't call them sandals in Hawaii. They're slippers. Was taken in Hawaii. It was not taking in Hawaii, but it doesn't matter. Like I am who I am, and I come from where I come from. Those are not sandals. Okay, fine, fine, you got one jab in you got okay, that's okay. Here's the thing, though, The entire ensemble is complimented by a life jacket, but it is not just any life jacket, much like the Titanic. I'm sure somewhere on the original tag it was touted as the unsinkable life jack, okay, which in fairness would have been the one that my mom bought two all right. It's crafted from the same dense, rigid, non bendable gloss coated foam they used to make headgear for people training in martial arts or those prone to seizures. So if you could picture that shiny, glossy foam, that's this life jacket. All right now, Myles dad has his arms around miles shoulders and he's horizontally holding a large mouth bass that I'll say is I'm gonna say what four or five pounds? You tell me? Yeah? Yeah, it was written a five pound rinch. Okay, he's holding it right in front of your face, but you're not looking at the fish that is inches in front of your face, nor at the camera, but rather like awkwardly off to the side, as if young Miles had just seen the ice cream truck like round the corner or something. So you're totally not engaged in the photo. All right now, Uh, your dad is is owning the members jacket, only he's wearing a light gray like a champion. And I'm not even gonna poke fun because that he's straight varsity, right. He's also wearing some choice aviators that to me looked like they were real pilot aviators, like they weren't the knockoff ray bands I used to buy at the flea market. Okay, and uh, your dad finishes off with a blue hat that I would wear all day at Presidents. Subsequently, some hipster would pay fifty bucks for on eBay and dude, I've zoomed in and I cannot tell what it says, but it looks like a beer brand to me. I thought it was Papst at first, but be you can tell us Miller light that's a Miller light hat. I'm almost positive that's a Miller lighthead because I think it's I'm not looking at the photo right now, but he wore that Miller led hat all the time fishing, so I'm assuming it's the same one. Okay. Well, anyway, you've said in this podcast previous your dad developed video games for a living, But based on just this shot, I put him like eastbounding down as a long haul trucker who likes playing pool and knows how to wheel to queue when ship gets ugly. All right, Oh, hold on, I'm sorry I screwed up. That is. I can't believe I messed this up. That is a point logger hat from Point Wisconsin. And no, no wonder you didn't notice that or know what that was because it was a very niche brand from that part of the country. But that is a point logger hat, no question, hands down. All right, So we got clarity on the hat. We can move on to your mom. And she's just like so cute and momish in this shot, like clean compared to you two ruffians, stark white shirt, striped denim skirt, and like a scuff free pair of kids. Perhaps they were kids my mom wore kids, um, And I think I know what she's thinking because I have similar pictures with my mom. She's playing along for the picture for your sake, she's encouraging of your fishing. But get super piste when you used the good cutting board to whack up a walleye, And God bless her for letting this be your Christmas card? What did I get right? What did I get wrong? Oh? Man? You were pretty much spot on that that whole way through. Uh what What you you don't know is that I'm like, actually kind of piste off in that photo because Dad's getting ahold of fish but I'm not. And I'm like, you know, I'm eight. I'm like, that's no fair. I wanna I want to be holding the fish in the in the Christmas card. And I was even more piste because because I did have what I thought was a picture worthy fish that was caught that day. I had, you know, a northern pike that in my mind was was was a dandy. It was nothing compared to Christmas card. Dandy wasn't. And I know there are other photos that I made people take of me holding the fish, but my fish photo, the photos of the family with me holding the fish, did not make the Christmas card. Oh no, no, no, just the one with with dad's big bass. And uh and and Mom was not happy about the whole thing ever becoming our Christmas card. Now in the moment, she didn't know this was gonna be the Christmas card. But I do remember this being a point of contention that that our Christmas card being sent out to all our genteel and polite friends who didn't care at all about fishing, had to see my dad holding a giant dead bass. So that's pretty much, uh, that's pretty much what I got for you. You You did, you did well, sir, well, that was a great awkward fishing moment. And not to all the fathers of young children out there, okay, don't let this resentment breed forever, and let your kids hold their own fish. They'll never never forgive you for it. All right, that's stunn a little. But uh, now that Joe has taken his lumps and awkward fishing moments and I have taken mine, it's only fair. It's your turn. I'm talking to all of you out there listening. It's my duty to remind you that my picture can now be seen on mine Joe's Instagram pages. That's at water Miles and at Joe dot Sir, Melie. But we want to put your terribly awkward fishing photos on our pages as well. We've already gotten a few, but keep them coming, send them to bent at the Meat Eater dot com, and you might get to be burned by us on this podcast. We hope, so at least we want to burn you. But let's keep making people feel awkward right now. Though we've had our good friend dos Bot to Lum and badass guy Tim Land We're on the show before, but this week we're gonna try and rattle his brain with trivia where categories include flea market, junk, and horrible cinema. You gotta be highly skilled for these shows. You understand that I do under Are you well? Burst, there. You're very smart men. Half all right in the hot seat today for trivia. My good buddy Tim Land where of tight Lins Fly Fishing Company in Green Bay. What's going on? Tim? Not much show? How are you doing? Good man? Now? Tim and I met on the set of season two of dos Boat this past summer, and um, I learned a few things about you after spending a few days with you that have helped me Taylor Today's trivia questions, and uh the first one of those things that I learned from hanging out at the fly shop is that, like me, you are a collector of vintage tackle. Okay, well, all right, you don't sound too confident, but you do have you do have too, yes, So just having it there, I assumed you were an expert, so we'll see how this goes. But you have too awesome cases of vintage flies and reels and all kinds of cool stuff there in the shop that I was just very interested in. So our first question today is going to, uh see how much knowledge you have of the things in your case in a roundabout way, So are you ready to play? Yeah, let's do it all right, here we go. Question one in n Charles Fluger finally received a patent for his Medalist fly reel after submitting the design two years earlier. Since fly reels already existed, the granting of that patent meant that Flugger's reel was designated as unique and different from other reels out there. So which of the following was a key feature of the Metalists that earned Flugger the patent? A? Did it have a real foot that would universally fit on any brand of fly rod? Be a real handle that rotated around a post instead of remaining static as you cranked. See A revolutionary paint finish that inhibited rust? Or D an ornamental round line guide built into the frame. One of those things earned Flugger the patent for the Medalist in nineteen thirty. You think on this, I don't I don't like it. I don't like it at all? Was the finish? So you're going with C it was a revolutionary paint finish that inhibited rust. I'm going with that. Yes, that is incorrect. What the answer is? D an ornamental round line guide built into the frame. I had no idea, but I was totally good because I had a I had a bunch of friends that redid the click and Paul on the inside with brass and things, because they were some of the first saltwater reels that they actually had used, So I thought maybe the finish on the outside was kind of a key feature to that. I thought long and hard about the fake answers in that, so good on me. But they changed in a nineteen fifty two. This is according to the Internet, right, So they have the rectangular line guides, and if you remember the old medalist like, now that line guide is built into the frame, those were screwed in as a separate piece. Uh, as I read it. As it turns out, the round line guide went away because it actually proved inefficient because more people started chasing bigger stuff than trout didn't lay line as nice as a long rectangular guide. So point being with that for all you dirt mall and and flea market people like me and I think tim on occasion like, yeah, medalists are a dime a dozen, right, But you see one with the round line guide for two bucks in somebody's box of wares, by that because that is the valuable one that'll get you on antiques road show every time. There you go exactly. Okay, So moving on to question two. Uh, here's another thing I learned about you that I love you. Um you have an ability to reference obscure, weird movies. And here's how this came about. During the shoot, we were cutting up fish with the bench made meat crafter boning knife that the meat eater made there and the entire crew was talking about this knife, and your contribution was I want the knife. And I was like, did he just drop a reference is Golden Child starring Eddie Murphy. I did, and I was like, holy sh it, we can hang. So I got you. You are at least somewhat well versed in weird and or forgotten movies. And I'm gonna change up the format of this question a little bit. Here. I'm gonna give you a chance to answer without the multiple choice, And if you can get this without needing a list of answers, you will not only win the nothing that's already up for grabs, but I will double the nothing and toss in a one year subscription to the Nothing. If you can hit this without needing multiple choice, I'm counting on you, man, Like I like, we're kindred spirits here, So here we Go okay, in which film is the excuse for a destroyed living room that one of the main characters was attempting to free the mounted mahi mahi hanging on the wall. Oh my god, I don't know, Tim. Please know that we're already like brothers. There was not What about Bob? No? No, But without answering Miles, do you know it? Sadly? No? Oh, you're you're on an island. I quit all right, I'll give you the multiple choice. Then was it a the son in law? Be in sin? No? Man? See Biodome? D The Godfather Part two? Now I know? Was it for the first one? Was it father in law? No? The son in law? Have you never seen Biodome? I've never, Dude, we talked about biodome and I've not seen Biodome. You need to go to Blockbuster tonight. It features one of my favorite quotes of all times. What do you boys want out? Alive? To die and come back as a leotard? I promise you, Joe. That is on my That's on my movie list tonight. It is an exceptional cinema And the next time I see you, we better be able to go back and forth on the biodome. I feel so left out on that one. Damn it. We are about out of time here on Bent, which brings us to our end of the line segment where we run down a lure or fly or bait we think you need to know about or just know more about, because we said so. Damn right. Yeah, it's like parenting. This week, Joe is going to try and support a claim that wiggily rubber beats wavy hair when considering criteria to determine the most versatile lure ever made. You'd be the judge. Well, that's not allowed enough. Burt. Way back in I penned an article that made a fairly ballsy claim for generations, the plain white bucktail jake has been largely hit old as the most versatile lore ever made. Matter of fact, white bucktails were once included in the ditch bag of every naval airman and rumored to be part of survival kits within other branches of the military. Now, I certainly can't take anything away from the bucktail or its versatility, but what I wrote was that there wasn't much that could challenge that versatility until two thousand and two. That's the year that storm gave the world the Wild Eye swimshad. To understand the power and the glory and the ingenuity of the wild Eye swimshad, which most people just referred to as storm shads or Stormy's, one must examine the swim bait market in two thousand two and the years just prior. Okay, at that point in history, there were really only two swim bait options for consumers. You either paid a hefty price for custom swim baits, mostly coming out of California, or you bought the cheap rubber ones that were pretty stiff and rigid and needed a he rigged on a jighead for proper delivery. Now years ago, I chatted with Steve Gibson, a product engineer at Storm, and he explained that the wild Eyes sort of split the difference. They came pre rigged with an internal jighead, which meant anglers of any skill level could just tie one on and cast away. Unlike many cheaper swim baits of that era that were solid colors or two tone at best, Storm created life like patterns with foil inserts, more akin to the custom stuff that the Callie boys were doing. But perhaps most critical was that a bag of stormies did not break the bank. They were affordable to all aesthetics and cost the side though. The storm chad just playing cough fish, lots of fish, and in pretty much any type of water you wanted to throw one in. And I still genuinely remember the first pack of five inch storm shad I ever bought, mullet pattern to be exact, which is still my favorite today, and I grabbed them at the Fisherman's Supply in Point Pleasant, New Jersey before hitting a local jetty and positively crushed stripers that evening high hopping a storm shad off the bottom in the inlet as the tide flushed out. Now Gibson told me he truly realized the potential of the storm shad in those early days when he started getting calls about people using three inch freshwater models to tangle with massive tarpin. And not long after the storm shads released, they were in pretty much every big box and mom and pop tackle shop in the country. If you just cast and reel a storm, you'll catch fish. But there's almost nothing you can't do with this lore hop it crawl at jig at hell in times of extreme desperation. I'll admit I've even trolled one, and as long as that paddle tail is thumping, you're in the game. Though I may not have to catch fish to survive, I do feel stranded and very afraid if I'm fishing without some storm he's on hand, particularly in salt what from the Louisiana redfish backcountry to the stripers surf of the Northeast to the oil rigs of the golf storm shads have saved me from lots of skunkings and in many cases just proved to be more effective than the rest of the loures we were chucking. Now. Of course, one could argue that a storm shat is even less durable than a plain white bucktail, which is accurate. So maybe if you were genuinely going to wind up stranded on an island, okay, you'd want that bucktail in that situation. Personally, I would rather have a metal Hopkins or cast master. That's even harder for barracudas and such to mangle. But we'll save that argument for another end of the line. So that's it for this week. You now know where to find drinking paradise if you can tie delicate may flies while listening to Raining Blood, how to ruin a warm Christmas greeting with a large mouth bass and the Tom Rosenbauer, the Great Tom rosen Power drowns his fishing sorrows in week Margarita's as per usual. We'd like to remind you, guys to keep those bar nominations, comments, criticism, questions for lance, awkward photos, and sale been items coming to bent at the meat eator dot com. Just reading, just listening to that, like we just keep adding things we want. Pretty soon it will be send your social Security number, copy of your passport. I'm kidding, of course, but we do love hearing from you guys very very much. We do, we do, and we hope you're getting out to fish this weekend, not binging poly shore movies. And remember keep only what you intend to eat and as for the rest of it, free might em free my emight I if you will