00:00:02 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, your home for deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wire to Hunt Podcast. I'm your host, Mark Kenyan, and this is episode number four Tay in the show. We're joined again by one of our favorite past guests, Hank Shaw, and we're diving deep into everything you need to know to take your ventance in cooking to the next level. All right, welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, brought to you by Sick of Gear, and today, with the holidays quickly approaching, we are talking food and joining us is a repeat guest, Mr hank Shaw, And if you remember back from I think it was episode number sixty five. Hank is one of the leading culinary experts on cooking wild game. He's a blogger at Hunter, Angler, Gardner Cook and the author of several great wild game related books. And in that first episode we had with Hank, he shared some really incredible advice on properly handling your big game in the field, butchering and finally how you know how to best cook it, and a bunch of different ideas on on venison cooking. But that was kind of a smaller portion of our podcast just that last third, and today we wanted to dive further into that aspect and really go deep into the cooking side of venison, because you know, meat and cooking, after all, it's what this whole hunting thing is about. So today Hank is going to help us understand a whole plethora of different preparations and ideas for cooking venison. And hopefully we all have freezers full of venison by now with which we can test these new cooking tips and ideas, And especially with Christmas and and all the other holidays on the horizon, there should be plenty of opportunities to share that venison with our family and friends. So I'm looking forward to it. I think Hanks can have some great stuff to share with us, and he's always a fun guy talked to as well. But before we give Hank call, my co host and I have to go off on a brief tangent, as we do every week, and I need to share some very sad news. I your host Mark Kenyon have been crushed in the Weird Hunt trail Caraman contest. Congratulations, Dan, thank you. What was the what was the final score percentage? Well, I looked earlier this morning, and when I last checked, you had a vote of sent for your buck. Gordon Bombay, he definitely passes the eye test. Yeah, that's for sure. I'll be honest. I think that if it came down, the score would actually be closer than what everybody thinks. But I think they're right up there in that one eight mark. Yeah, I agree. I think I think I think Gordon probably takes it. He's just got a lot of stuff going on, but but a lot of impressive deer there that we're up for consideration. That's I think that's the moral of the story. So that's right. Unfortunately, neither of us killed any of them. No, but you did get and so dude, I just I don't know what it is. I just love checking trail cameras. Yeah, I mean I if I wasn't a hunter, I like my buddy. He's not a hunter. He's not going to go out in a bow or with a gun and shoot a deer. But he loves checking his trail camera. He's he got a new farm, that farm with all the big deer on it, you know, I talked about every once in a while, and he just loves I talked him into getting a couple of trail camera and he just loves loves it. Yeah, it's they're addicting. It's a lot of fun. It's it's a huge part of now, I think yours and my just our hunting season enjoyment in general. A big part of is just getting the pictures, seeing who's there, sing more bucks are moving through the area. I think it's fair said that we both just loved dear and seeing them and looking at them and thinking about them. So pictures definitely help with that, that's for sure. And right now I have my one of my trail cameras set on video modes, so it's taken like fifteen second bursts of footage, and some of that stuff is just really cool. You can a little bit more than what a picture shows, like what dough is the mature dough, and like the alpha dough of the group, Like when she comes in and she rules the roost, just like bucks have a ranking, so do so do does? That's pretty cool to see. Yeah, you know, for some reason, I just never turned my video mode on. I don't know if it's because I'm just paranoid that something will go wrong. Um, but I never turned on, but I probably should, especially this time of year when I'm you know, not so much in hunt mode. It's more so just getting some pictures just to see who's around. It would be fun just to see that behavior. That's right, I agree with that, So I guess yes he has. Have you started thinking about it? Well, I've I've contacted Rick Flair's people a couple of times, and uh no, I have it. I want I don't know when you when you're planning on doing this actual podcast, but I want to make it some badass guest like of course, of course, some guy or gal or whoever that's just gonna be like yes, and then you know that's that's your only criteria. I guess that makes everybody go yes. And then you know, maybe he's gonna maybe he'll just sit and talk the whole time and you just sit back in awe. Maybe he'll give some pointers, maybe he won't. Maybe he goes off on a tangent about you know why he feels bush Light is the best beer in the nation. I don't know, are we are we gonna talk about deer on this this Dan posted podcast? You know, I think that I think that it should be a main focus, because after all, this is a deer hunting podcast and that's why people tune in every day for every week. But I feel there needs to be a little hot sauce in with this episode. I would expect nothing less. So I have to do a lot of thinking. And so if it's official and I did win the bet, I feel that I want to do some proper planning and not jump to conclusions and just be like, hey, you you're on the you're on the show. You know. I think that's a good idea. I think that's fair. You won. You won fair and square, so you get to host an episode and uh yeah, I'm thinking sometime the next couple of months. So you just you keep on thinking, shoot me your ideas, and we'll make it happen. This is gonna be glorious. I cannot wait until And I don't even know if I want to tell you who the guest is. I just want like, well, as we're doing our intro, as we're doing we're doing our intro, and it's just like okay, uh and today guest is Gordon Bombay, and I actually interview a deer on the show. If you pull that off, that'd be that'd be probably a first for the podcast in world. Let's say, uh, man, well, I'm looking forward to it too. It'll be nice just to sit back and and let Dallas fort Worth take it away for right. You might you might your I can imagine there might be there's a good chance that your sponsors call you and they're like, yeah, man, we're done. I want all the refunded money that pro rated back to us. Well, you know, I I agreed. I agreed that we would record a podcast episode. Would you be the guest? I never agreed to publishing it. Okay, I see where this is going out. I see where this is going There's always those those uh those asterisks. Yes, the small print. You didn't read the small print on this, and you had to. You had. I don't blame you. I'm not I'm not trustworthy. Oh, I'm sure it'll be fine. I'm sure fun. It'll be good. It was a fun bet. I'm glad we finally got it posted. Sarry. It took so long, but made it happen. I owe you a meme because I won the other bet. I actually I actually started on one, made one, and then my wife gave it the thumbs down, so I need to do a new one down. Yeah, she didn't think it was funny enough. So that's funny because my wife thinks a lot of this stuff I do, uh is not funny, but I I find it really funny. Oh that's dumb. But then I don't know. Maybe I think maybe our sensitive humor are just more superior than our wives. Keep that quiet. She might listen this one. She doesn't. This is the cooking episode, my wife might so yeah, that's right, okay, right, right, right? Oh jeez, well we uh, I'm hungry, We're hungry. You've got a couple of dolls in the freezer, right, and I've got I've got three in the fraser and uh, I've been trying to put a fourth in their struggling. I've been out do hunting lately and had another issue with my muzzle loader last week last weekend, just like what happened last year, like almost the exact same thing with misfires. So I'm about to throw this thing in the river. But I don't know. You know, I'll tell you what and we'll talk a lot about this when we get hank On on the air. But I need to step up my wild game cooking game. Yeah, I'm not good at it. Well, I think we kind of touched on it the first time we had Hank on, but definitely hopefully today it's you know, Shoot, we spend so much time planning and putting in the time to hunt these deer. Kill these deer, get him the freezer. Uh, it's only right that we should put as much thought in time into making sure we we cook and eat them as best as possible to right. So yeah, I've been trying to do the same thing, trying to up the game. And I'm lucky. My wife is very fortunate. She really likes, you know, trying new things, and she's really into venison and wild game and all that kind of stuff. So it's been fun. That's kind of actually, Um, it's been a cool thing for us to do together. I've been kind of you know, she's connected on stuff that I'm into. She goes fishing than me and stuff, does the outdoor thing. Um, but this is an example where I've been trying to get more into something that she's really passionate about the food side of things, and it's been it's been cool. So I think I think Hank should have some great ideas for us to help us all get a little better trying some new things. And I think, you know, I think we both took some things away from our first episode with hank Um and we only talked about cooking in that one for like twenty minutes. So today we'll get a we'll get a full show just about the cooking and preparing and all that. And there's there's a lot to talk about there. So I'm pretty stoked. Should we uh, should we just make it happen? All right? Well, we will pause briefly from our word. Well you know where we do. Okay, let's just start over, a start over now, a word from our sponsor. In all seriousness, we're gonna take a break for a word from our partners, and then we'll give Handker call. So let's try it from there, alright, So, as promised, we need to pause for a word from our partners at Sick of Gear and with us today is white Tail category leader Dennis Zuck. And I wanted Dennis to tell us a little bit more about a new piece of gear that SICK to launch this year called the Shacket, and that's essentially a shirt jacket, T shirt jacket. And I mentioned this because we're currently running a holiday sweepstakes as we mentioned last week, in which we're giving away one of these jackets. So, Dennis, what is the jacket? And where did this idea come from? Yeah, you know, and for us, it started with, you know, putting no boundaries on ourselves and thinking about, you know, who's our guy and what's he doing. And you know our guy was you need his archery hunting um, and he needed all his range emotion um. But he also cared a lot about you know, warmth and staying in the stand for a while, you know. So our shack it was. You know, we've all owned a vest, right, we've all owned a jacket. We've all owned you know, these pieces, you know, and somewhere along the line, somebody told you lose so much heat through your head. Well, you know where you lose a lot also, it's underneath your arms. And you know, we started thinking about this idea of creating you know, keeping those foe arms open. We're typically most of us don't get that cold in our forearms. Um, we're trying to shoot our bow, and but still making sure that we capture that heat that we would be losing in a vest configuration underneath our arms. You know, lone behold came the shack Itt. You know, it was non conventional, It wasn't something people were used to. But I'll tell you what it's done is it's changed people's ideal of being warm and how much or how little in that matter, they can wear and still be fairly comfortable in the stand. Um. So it's a piece we're really proud of. We think it uh, it pushes the boundaries, and that's what we think. We try to push the boundaries, and not for the sake of pushing boundaries, um, for the sake of creating better product. So if you are interested in learning more about the Sick of Gear shack it, make sure you visit sick of gear dot com. And also if you want to try to win the one shack at that we're giving weight, make sure you go to Wired to hunt dot com slash holiday to enter our sweepstakes, which is open until Christmas Eve. And I can say personally, I've worn the shack It on probably ninety percent maybe of my hunt so far this year, and it's really become one of my favorite pieces. So it's worth checking out now. Though, it's time to get Hank Shaw on the line. All right with us now on the phone again is Hank Shaw. Welcome back to the show, Hank, Thanks again for having me. Yeah, you were. You were one of the guests that we got some of the best feedback about. UM, So, despite my better judgment, I decided to invite you on again, Hank. What's good to hear? I always it's better that than people, you know, throwing digital arrows. Yeah. No, we really enjoyed having you having as a guest back. I think it was episode is what is in my head? I think? And um that time we did talk. One of the things that stuck with me is that you made three Star Wars references, which is the first for the wire Dunk podcast. And I really enjoyed that. And so now with episodes seven of Star Wars coming out this week, I gotta ask, are you pretty excited about that? Yeah? I'm gonna see it. I'm I'm not waiting in line for it, but you know, I'll absolutely watch it. I've seen them all. I've been watching it since I was six years old. Yeah, what about you, Dan? You pumped? Um? Am I the only nerd on this podcast? Am I the only one who was really pumped? No? I have some nerd like nerd tendencies too, But you know, I haven't literally been to a this is This is gonna sound weird, but I haven't been to a movie theater since that whole Cali Colorado deal. Really now by because of that or just by happenstance. Maybe it's subconscious for me. It's the cost. I mean, it's got to be a big movie for me to go see it, and Star Wars qualifies. Well, I sneak my my stuff in anyway, So you sneak a box of popcorn and underneath your jacket? Are you kidding? He's got? He's got? That is a jerky. Hey, back in high school when starter starter jackets used to be the end thing, I could put a whole large pizza under my jacket. You still wear those, Dan, don't you come on? Mark? Duh? Yeah? Of course, I just bring a flask of bourbon. That's the key to a good movie, right there. I gotta have a good idea. I have to make an admission. I am such a big nerd that I'm going to the opening night showing at midnight. Right Well, it is it's supposed to be the midnight showing, but it's at seven o'clock, so it's like the old man's midnight showing. I guess, well, all right, so you're you do realize that I'm gonna have to force choke you if you if you give out spoilers on the Facebook. Yeah, I'll have to hold it in. I've I've heard good things so far. I just saw. I don't want to read any reviews or like spoilers or anything, but there were like just some like tweets of people who watched the premiere and so far good stuff. So this is this is a hunting show. This is You're right, we probably should should move on from this because we already spent like ten minutes before we got Hank on the phone talking about stupid stuff, and now here we are with Star Wars. So, so would you use a broadhead with her for a banther? My my guy who edits video, who helps me edit my videos for Wired Hunt. He's kind of a nerd to and he like throws random Star Wars references out in his emails to me, and my wife helps handle some of my email stuff. Um, just to kind of filter some things, and she saw him. He emailed me. He called me a fuzzy headed nerve hurder and that's that's an animal in Star Wars. And she's like, Wow, that's a deep that's a deep dive. And I think we should stop for else we're gonna go down the dark whole year and Star Wars stuff. So so I think, you know, like we were talking about a minute ago, um, you know, we're excited to spend this whole hour, hour and a half here or whatever it's gonna be just talking about cooking venison, which we we've all hopefully been doing a lot now that we're into December and a lot of us have been hunting for a few months and should have hopefully some venison the freezer. So I kind of wanted to dive into all sorts of things, as you know, as far as cooking, as far as different ways to prepare venison, different ways, different recipe ideas, sauces, marinades, all sorts of kind of stuff on that um. But I kind of want to start at the beginning here and and look at our scenario or sort of our our setting for this type of thing, and that's the kitchen. So today we're in the kitchen, and what I wanted to ask you Firstank is, Let's imagine a hypothetical guy or girl, uh, maybe a stereotypical young bachelor. Let's say he's listening to the show who hunts, but has never really taken his cooking game to the next level. He always just kind of does the basis, he throws some mistakes in the grill, he makes Hamburg the lowry season exactly exactly so for this guy or girl who's who's not really there yet but is intrigued and interested, I first want to know what kind of kitchen tools or appliance is there something? What do we need to start taking our ventis and cooking game to the next level. From a tool standpoint, um, you know, do we need cast iron pans, We need some special knives or certain pots or certain anything, I don't know what. From that standpoint, just to get a started with the right gear. We have deer hunters, we like talking about gear. What kind of gear do we need to take our ventis in game to the next level. That's the first thing I want to know about it. You don't need much, and I'm sorry to disappoint the gear heads but a good frying pan, either cast iron or stainless deal. You don't really need it on stick for rensent In fact, you don't want it because non sticks don't do well with with very high heat or with the cidic sauces. You're gonna want a set of good tongs, metal tongs, not the stuff with the rubber or silicon on the end. You want metal tongs to flip things. You want a wooden spoon, idea elite to one to stir with, and one that has a flat edge so that you can scrape the bottom of pans with the reason why you want it would and not metal, so you don't ruin your your pants. And you want a Dutch oven or any kind of like a lake cruise, you know, those big heavy pots with with a lid on them. You can do pretty much anything with those two things. I mean, if I were to add beyond that a very good kitchen knife. Uh, let's see, I would say a roasting pan doesn't have to be a big one, but a roasting pan so for for the culinary um inept like myself to a degree, a couple of these things. So a roasting pan is just one of those rectangle type pans, right the sword of deep exactly. You know, you can get the cheap foil ones in the supermarket. You want a good you want a good one, you know, one made of steel or enamel lined or something like, something that you can wash and use for years and years and years. I've used mine for fifteen years. And then the Dutch oven I'm familiar with you like a cast iron Dutch oven, the big really heavy, heavy duty type deal. But you mentioned another French word umn. Can the big pot work or does it really need to be that thick cast iron type thing? You want something reasonably thick lake cruise c R e U s et. That's it's enamel coated iron and it's sort of an indoor kitchen Dutch oven. And they last for generations. I mean you can pick them up a yard sales or thrift stores. You know it's usually because the old lady died and the thing is still good doing well. You know, Uh, they just don't. They just don't. They don't go bad, and you can get them cheap or they're good Christmas presents or whatever. But a big, hefty steel iron enamel pot is good and you want it heavy because it retains heat better. So you could stee something either on the oven or on the stovetop for a long time at very low heat and it will maintain the thinner anything is the faster it will heat up, but the problem is the faster it will cool down. And if you want something that could that could hold heat, which is why a great number of cultures will cook in ceramic or in clay. Mhm. So you mentioned a good cooking knife or good cutting knife or kitchen knife. Um, is there any one single knife it could? Is there one knife I get away with covering most of the tasks for me? Or should I get one of those sets that has like the seven or eight different knives for pairing and all the other stuff. Two knives will do. I mean we're just talking about cooking down, not not butchering, but two knife will do. A pairing knife and a chef's knife. That's all you need. And the chef's knife is the is the pretty big one, right, It's the one that you used abb people with with that. I was thinking of my head that one. Yes, that one alright? Perfect? So was there any other any other items on the list? I kind of interrupted you there, Sorry, No, I'm just sort of thinking on the fly. I mean, I'm just sort of thinking what I use every day, you know. I mean everything I talked about right now is going to be what I use. But it's bonus bonus points. A sieve, a fine mesh sieve to strain sauces, to make them a little bit more refined, which I like to be a little bit more refined. But you can do a couple of different size pots. Sometimes you want something to make a sauce out of. Then you know, I use what's called a butter warmer. It's a very small steel pot and that's good for to heat up milk for coffee, but it's also good if you're doing a very small side thing like a like a cranberry sauce that you don't need a lot of um fish spatula. You can find one Amazon and it's a special spatula. It's very thin and the very end of it is sort of a blade. It's not a super sharp blade, but it's beveled and they're used to flip fish and that's what you can use it for. But it is the best spatula that you'll ever use. It's it becomes part of your hand, So just that beveled edge makes it a lot easier to get underneath things or scrape stuff from the bottom if you need to. Yes, and they're angled so right hand. I you know, I'm left handed, so I had to actually special order one because you know, people are bigoted against us left handed people. I'm protesting later today. But yeah, but most of them coming right handed, and they're they're really amazing tools. Interesting, what about you know, do we is it worth? And again this is I know this is going to come down to just how far you want to go with it, But is it worth for you know, someone in this type of situation, like we're mentioning, you know, taking the next leap and getting something like a smoker or green egg or any these other kind of specialized type of things to to up our game. Is that something that you know it's worth looking at if you want to really take it to the next level? Or is it can you can you do some of the same things just rubbing. I think a smoker is definitely a valuable, valuable tool, but that's again that's sort of the next level kind of deal. Yeah, how expensive fakes knees? I hate those? Sorry, no problem happens to the best of us. Can you can you get away with a smoker a reasonable price? Yes? Um. What I started with and when I was that young bachelor is I used my Webber grill, you know, the big you know, the circular grill that you can just buy it any any store. What you do to make it a smoker is you don't put that many pieces of charcoal on one side of it, and you put some wood and you keep the other half of the circle completely free of charcoal. And you can put one of those cheap foil roasting pants that we just talked about and put some water in it, and then you put your meat over that so it could drip into the water. And if you're if it's hot out and you really need to keep the temperature cold, that you can uh that you could put ice in it and so you can keep it very very cold. Obviously the icel belt, but it keeps that that chamber very very cool. So you could, you know, you could set that up pretty cheap, I mean less than a couple that's pretty cool, I do. That's definitely one of the things I've been thinking about is, you know, trying different types of smoked, smoked meats, jerkys, things on those lines. I've been trying to figure out the best way to do that, um which which I want to specifically ask about that jerky. But before I get to that, really quick, I kind of want to close out the kitchen stocking up my kitchen piece here. I got a quick question in regards to can you get away with not having some of those items and still bring the meat or the your game to its I guess the greatest potential as far as flavor is concerned. Well, what I don't what are you thinking about leaving out? Well, I mean, right now, I have very few of those items. I have a saucepan, and I have a really a really good set of knives, and that's just about it. You need the pot, okay, because you know your two fundamental ways of cooking game are hot and fast or slow and loud. And if you don't have a good pot like that, you're really behind the eight ball. So I mean, given what you just told me, you know you've got a sauce panad and you got good knives. You need the pot. And then you know wooden spoods are three dollars, so you know, suck it up? I want, But I mean, can I can I get if I, let's say, for a guy who has absolutely every one of those products that you mentioned, as opposed to a guy who has only got like of the products those kitchen utensils. Can can Can we still get the same flavor and have the same end result in our meat? Sure? It just makes it easier. Got you? What about a crock pot? Do you ever use a crack pot or do you just using a Dutch oven and simulate the same type of slow cooking method? Mostly I used the Dutch oven, but the crock pot or any kind of slow cooker, it really comes into its own if you have a day job. Now, mind you, I no longer have a day job. This is what I do for a living. So I can hang around and watch a pot and it's not like I'm sitting there staring at it. But you know, I can wander in and make another cup of coffee and like, oh yeah, it's still good. So but if you've got to make something like a braised venison shoulder, for example, you're gonna want to do that in the crock pot, because if you've got to go to work all day. You just want to keep it, you know, the kind of a dull roar. And it's a great I mean, it's it's do you know the origin of the crock pot idea. It's a fascinating story. I had no idea until recently. But apparently a an Orthodox Jewish guy, he said, huh, how the hell am I going to eat on Sabbath? You just because of the orthdox, they can't do anything right. They can't cook, you know, they can't even ask the phone. So he invented this thing for I think beans, and so it was originally a bean pot, and that he would make it before sundown and it would cook until the Sabbath was over, I guess, and then they could sit there and they'd have dinner. And one of his boy friends is like, I know that would be great for you know, pretty much everything. And so you know, a revolution was born in cooking. And it's just I used to hate on him a lot because I mean, there's too many times. Okay, I gotta tell this one story. This is it's not venicine related, but it's game related. It's hilarious. I was out of events in South Dakota and our hosts. I'm gonna leave some proper names out of here, just to protect the innocent and the guilty and our hosts. They were all stoked to give us this fancy pheasant send off meal. It was like, oh yeah, we have a pheasant tonight. Oh yeah, we're all excited. You know, everyone's looking at me like, you know, waiting for you know, you made a heap condemnation on everything. I was very very polite. And then because I didn't know what they're gonna cook, so out it comes. And apparently what they had done is they had thrown several whole but skinned pheasants into a croc pot and dumped cream of mushroom soup over it and let it cook for I don't know how many weeks. It just it was this brown and all the bones were there too, So it's like basically everyone's looking at each other and we I said under my breath to the guy to my left, it's pheasant a bockla. And it wasn't a bad joke. It was the real deal. Huh No, it was. It was. It was one of the top four worst things I've ever eaten in my life. It was just it was a that is an old standby though, right, throw some meat in the crackpot with cream mushroom soup and you're good for the love. A lot of people said that not good, just you know, will you not? Will you die from it? Probably not, but I'm not. I can't make no guarantees. It's it's an abomination. Yeah, yeah, it's a it's a fair point. The crack pot though, like you said, it can come in really handy for some things chili, slow cook soups, stews, braises, it's great for that. Yeah. And they're not too expensive, not too expensive at all. It's pretty pretty cheap tool again, thrift stores and uh and a weekend yard sales. Yeah, do you have one of those? Damn? I do have a crack pot. And my first question to you is, so I should not cook my venison roast in a crack pot with like potatoes and carrots and and all that. If you wanted to, then then that's kind of a German pot roast style. You know, you're not going to get a nice roast out of it. You're gonna get kind of a pot roast e. And that's fine. I would do it with a neck or a shank or a shoulder rather than a hind leg roast. So my issue is that I I typically overcome my meat in that scenario because I I time it wrong. Is there is there a way to not cook it all the way and like get more of a medium in a crock pot or is that just what it's for, cook the crap out of it? Yeah? The latter, you know, it's you know, it's not possible to really, I mean, I suppose it theoretically, it could be possible, but it's more trouble and it's worth don't don't even try it. It's cook the crap out of it. But the key with that crap if I'm wrong, Hank, But you know from my experience with the crock potter slow cooker, right, is you do cook the crap out of it, but because you do it for so long and so slow that it actually does become really tender and great because you cooked it for so long and it's such a low heat and so even though you're not you know, there's like you said, there's hot and fast, which keeps you know, kind of you wanted medium, rare or whatever. But then this is the other way to cook it. Forever for really a slow period of time, and then you also still get really tender, juicy meat with as long as put liquid and stuff in there. Right, Oh, precisely, precisely. I mean, in fact, the the it's the in fact the recipe I have on my website right now. It's a braised venicine shoulder that has a Mexican mole with it. And that's that's how I cooked the venisine. It's just very very slow, and eventually it just all that connected tissue just melts and it makes everything silky and super supertender. It's you know, it's it'll it will change the way that you look at these parts of the animal if you if you start cooking this way. Yeah. We we actually, my wife and I actually use your venison barbicoa excuse me, vencent barbacoa recipe this Saturday with a neck roast that we use a crock pot just to slow cook it all day. And it turned up pretty delicious. Oh yeah, just shred that puppy butt it on a tortillad. You're good to go. It was money, It was great. We we went hunting in the evening, came back and had some tasty VENs and tacos. So so last kitchen question that I had, at least if I can take a step back, is we've got the tools that we need, the key essential tools. What about key spices. What are the man into tour a minimum spices or herbs or something like that that I should have on hand if I wanted to be able to tackle some of these next level preparations. Hold on, yeah, bless you was a good one. The minimum spices that you want are going to be salt, pepper, and in my opinion, celery seed. H The reason why I want celery seed is because celery seed sprinkled on a roast or backstrap steak right near the end makes the meat tastes more of itself. It's a it's one of those secrets that we learned and the I used to work at a steakhouse and that was our kind of our secret. It was in our mix that we would grind over the meat as it was resting, and it's it's a there's your there, there's your secret for the day. Is that the same as celery salt? I think I've heard of celery salt? Is that a thing? Celery salt is a thing. But celery seed is different. Okay, so don't use the ladder? Yeah, what do you settle re seed? They're tiny, tiny, tiny little seeds that you that you can just you can just sprinkle a few of the mod along with your salt and pepper and you're that you'll notice the difference, that you'll like it. I know, I know it probably makes a difference of what type of meat or cut you're actually cooking. But is there but you said on that particular instance, you're sprinkling the salt and pepper and salary seed towards the end of the of the process. Is that what you want to do with game season it towards the very end? Or are we seasoning it some of some cuts at the beginning while the meat is still raw? It all everything is different. But salt is different from everything else too. You have to remember. So salt is your is your basic seasoning. I salt early and often so when the meat comes out. Very rarely cook cold meats. I mean, there are exceptions that we can get into, but in general I will take a piece of meat out and let it come to room temperature, and when it comes out of the fridge, I salted and that does two things. That that uh protects it from the warming temperatures. And it starts to season the meat right off the bat, and then I will cook it and then I will season in at the end. You know, if it's slow cooked, like the shoulder or the neck or something the same thing. Then you brown it and then you make your braids or your stew or whatever, and then you season that and then you let it cook for however long it's going to cook, and then you season a third time right before you right before you serve it. But pepper and settle, recede and any other spices that you want to use, they're all, for the most part, pretty volatile. So for example, just try this, make a stew and put as much pepper as you want in at the beginning. Now make the same stew and put as much pepper as you want at the end. You will notice a radical difference. Pepper is extremely volatile, which is why never buy pre grand pepper. It's lost almost everything you want to. The cheap easy answer for good pepper is to buy those pepper mills that you just the the peppers already in the mill and you just grind it as you you know you could. You don't have to buy a pepper mill. Do that there. You know, every tiny little market I've ever seen has them, and just buy that and you're you'll be shocked. Oh, this is why, this is why there was a spice trade. This is why people went to war over black pepper. And you know, if you get a pre grand you're like, I don't get it. So you're saying that the grinder, the pepper grinder is really makes a big difference. You get a little peppercorns in there and you grind it up yourself, a huge difference. That's an interesting idea. That's something we don't have. It's a huge difference. What hey, while we're on the topic of spicing your food and flavoring it, so my wife, you know, it gives the typical excuse, you know, this is too gamey for me. I'm not a fan of it because it's too gamey whatever, and then me, I love the you know, I love the the gamey taste. I guess you if we're going to call it that, is there a way to meet in the middle, or is there? Is it just one of these things where it's either you like it or you don't. I'd be interested to sort of interrogate your wife about this whole gamey thing, because you know, I hear it all the time. And I'm assuming that you know how to take care of your your vedicine. I'm assuming that you didn't drive around a truck for three days look at you know a little, you know, I'm assuming you. I'm assuming you took care of it. That's what it was, man. Yeah, okay, yes, that's I mean, if presumably, if you know, if it's aged well, it was treated well, and you cool down the car. If the meat is treated well, it doesn't taste gave me at all. You know, there's no game me to me is a high taste. It's a kind of an it's a funky taste. It's it's like rough grouse have it in spades. Rough grouse are one of the gamiest, you know, game animals. I've ever eaten wood cocker sort of similar, but virtually nothing else has that funk unless you age the heck out of it, and you know most of us don't do that with venicine. So what is she getting at. I think she's getting at either a minerality that is in fresh venicine. It is more coppery irony than a comparable piece of beef, and that's largely because it's free of all fat. And the other thing that's going on is because it's free of all fat or most fat. What she's keying off of, and what most people are keying off of, is the profile flavors of corn. Because everything we eat in a supermarket a corn. Pigs, definitely cattle, and definitely chickens are all heavily fed on corn, and that creates a very specific flavor profile that if you've been eating it for your whole life, which most people have. Everything that is not that flavor profile is the only word they have in the vocabulary for it is gaming, and and it's not. It's misnomer. It just tastes like venicine. It tastes like something that's not corn, and people kind of get hung up on it and they just have to get over it. I mean, animals don't all taste like corn, and there's nothing you can do about it, you know, I mean, it's it tastes of what it is. Yeah, it seems like gaming is just one of those labels that people throw on anything that doesn't taste like beef. It's kind of what I kind of see from so many people, like, oh, it tastes gamey. They're just saying, oh, it just doesn't taste like the red meat I usually eat. I think is what I've hear from a lot of people, at least precisely now. I mean, here's an example, lamb. Lamb is gamey. And you know why lamb is gamy. It's not fed on corn. You know, here's a weird one. I will throw you kid goats and lamb kid goat you would think would be way more gamy. Absolutely not kid goats with some of the most mild sweet It's almost like prong horn, Like if you if you've ever had a really nicely treated prong horn antelope, it's like kid goat. Whereas a lamb it's got a stink on it. You know, even I mean even young lambs. I can absolutely tell if you're a good lamb in the house. Speaking speaking of prong horn, I've heard some people say that prong horn is awful, and then I've also heard of cold people say it's their favorite game. Meet in the world. What do you think, Hank? Is it pretty good? It's all preparation. It's you know, it can be both. And here's the thing. Antelope. I've shot a bunch of antelope. Antelope, you often shoot him in hot weather. Well that's a problem because antelopes hide retain heat way better than a deer's hide does. Second, antelope and nervous animals. I mean, I don't know if you ever shot one, but you shoot them, you think poorly of them, and they fall over and die, and they're just like up and they just watch any of the TV shows they do like oh that one ran and learned like nine steps and died. You know, they just die. I mean that's what they do. And so I mean because they're very nervous animals. And you notice like trouder nervous animals shatter nervous animals. Certain certain fish will just die as soon as you just take them out of water, whereas like a catfish, you can have a conversation with it for three hours and then put it back in the water and be like, hey see you later, you know, and so and so you have those things going against you. If you're an antelope punter, what you need to do is you drop your animal, take your hero shot. Got the animal in the field, which is important, and then get it out of the skin as fast as possible. Almost nobody does that. If you do that, it is some of the sweetest, most beautiful, light colored, fantastic beat ever. But it can go off in a heartbeat. And I can't tell you how many times I have seen guys riding around in a truck because here's what other what also happens. Maybe the three of us go an low pudding and well, I'm in the truck, so I'm gonna make it sure it's okay. But if it wasn't me, it was three guys in a truck, they're typically gonna shoot three antelope and they'll pile them in the truck, un gutted. And it's September in Wyoming, and it's maybe eighty degrees, maybe he's seventy degrees, and that meets going to go off in a heartbeat. And that's why people say that prong horn is disgusting. HM. Well, that's that's good news for Dan. Because when Dan and I were driving home from our outcutting trip this past year in Idaho, we drove through Wyoming and I swear hank every thirty seconds, and I was like, Oh, look in that field. Oh, look at that field, it's more prong horns. Look at all those animlos. Oh, we gotta come hunt these animals. I gotta go pronglem more. Running. For like two hours, we drove through the Green River Valley and that's all he could talk about. So I'm a flat well, I handle up living flat land. Their planes animals but there. But I'm but I'm in Iowa, the Midwestern we have white tails and squirrels and white tails, yeah, turkeys. So here's another I'm going off on tangents here. But now that we're talking about pronghorn. If I'm if I'm a tried and true deer hunter, let's say I'm Dan. I live in Iowa and there's just white tails and squirrels. Um. If I want to, you know, if you could just pick one new hunt for me to go on specifically, just because I want to get like the best wild game different than what I'm currently eating, which is a lot of white tail. If I could just choose one new hunt specifically just for the food standpoint, what would you recommend on that side of things, Big game or small game? I'd like to hear both. Small game rough grouse. The rough grouse hunting is not only super incredibly fun, Uh, the flavor of that bird is I think that might be one of my deathbed meals. Is a is a rough grouse or a blue growls in the Western mountains, you know, plucked and roasted and you know, with all the trimmings, big game. You know, you could do worse than prong horn. I mean, it's a ton of fun. You can do it as a d I Y hunt. There's lots of over the counter tags. You know, it's it's a lot of fun to go out and do. And you know you can usually get a bucket of dough tag and come home with a couple of prong horn on a d I Y hunt, hunt on hunt in public land, and you know you put in four or five days and and if you go to like northern Wyoming, you're gonna get your aunt. Mo. Yeah, that does look like that's something I do want to do. It looks like fun and I'd be really interested to try. I've never I've never eaten it before, so I have to make it happen someday. They're not big, you know, like you know, I mean, Dan, you live in Iowa. So you here in the land of the giants. But you know they're like a big antelope buck is a hundred. That's a big one. So we're we're talking about the average might be the size of my dog. You you run another mastiff. But if if the big if the big ones won twenty maybe an average is what ninety pounds and something like that, about a hundred hundred head and then the doors are about a hundred little less. Well fill both tags in right, Oh yeah, yeah, for sure, Yeah, nice, Well, I'm in you do. You do have to be good at shooting, though, And I know a lot of you guys in the East are like, I took this amazing shot. It was two d five yards and you know, the frog word is not crazy to shoot four hundred yards. You Western guys are crazy. I can't imagine some of these shots that guys out there take. I mean, I'm not even a I'm probably kind of an average shot, and I'll have routinely taken three plus yard shots. Yeah, if if I ever do go out there for that type of thing with a rifle hunt, I'll have some work to do, that's for sure. So back to meat or cooking, meat at least versus the hunting of the meat. Um, we started getting some different cuts there because you were talking about roasts and stuff. Um, what do you think about just running through a bunch of the different types of cuts that will you know, be able to get out of our deer. And you know, I'd be interested in hearing some of your different ideas, you know, high level. Okay, you know with the ventis and roast you could do X and then um, and then I might have some questions we can go into the detail how to do the best job with that are different cool things on each but I guess maybe with roast, let's start their hank. Um, what are your recommended ways of handling events and roast? Maybe've got a neck roast or a shoulder roast or something like that. Um. We talked a little bit about the crackpot idea, but is there anything else that you'd recommend that we consider? Um, any any tips on that? Well? If you start with you know, there's a kind of the triumvirate of of sinewy gristly stuff the shanks, the neck, and the shoulder, so all of them have lots of different muscles in that same group and lots of connective tissue, and unless it's a gigantic animal, there's not a lot you can do in terms of cutting out single muscle steaks or roast out of them. So they're dealt with as kind of agglomeration meats, you know. And my favorite thing to do actually with all of them is to cook them whole. So you know, I didn't shoot a very big deer this year. I shot a little forky black tail, and so the front shoulder was just barely fit into my roaster pand and so I decided to braise the whole shoulder. And if you get white tail does it's the same deal, you know, or a little button buck. A whole braised shoulder is a wonderful thing to cook because you have all of that connective tissue and it cooks off the bone and you get the tenderness and the it doesn't dry out and all you need is telling on that same thing with a neck roast, same thing with a shank. You should never ever take the beat off your shanks, you know, you always keep your shanks whole, or if they're gigantic, saw them into assabuco rounds, which is a cross cut of the shank about three inches thick. You know you do that with a big bruiser white tail, or with a with a big animal like an elk or a booze. All of those should just be cooked like croc pot or in a Dutch shoveled until the beat falls off the bone. Yeah, that's your general that's for your highest purpose for all of that. So with that, let's say we've got a shoulder like you mentioned. We can fit the whole thing in our Dutch oven. We're gonna braise it slow cooking like you mentioned. Um, can you walk us through specifically, you know, how how do you think we should be you know, seasoning it. Can you walk us through basically how would we do that? In more detail? For for the people like us that have no idea what we're going there's a million ways to go about it, but the structures typically the same, not always, but typically typically you're gonna want to brown to meat first. And if it's a whole piece of meat like a big neck or shoulder or something that you can't fit in your your sautapan, then what you do is you stick it in your roasting pan and you crank the heat up to like four fifty and you brown it in the oven. That's what we do in restaurants. It's like when we've got a lot of meat to brown for a stew, you throw it in the oven. Dow. I'm not gonna stand in front of a frying pan from two hours brown and meat when you can get it done in an hour in a hot oven. So once your meat is browned, why do you brown it? You brown it because that's called the myyard reaction, and it's the crust on bread, it's the you know, it's any kind of crispy brownness, and humans are hardwired to like crispy brownness. If you don't, I don't know what's wrong with you. You have some genetic genetic deficiency. But everybody likes crispy. Everybody likes that kind of brown meat thing. And that's how you get You get that and that carries through, even though it's so longer going to be crispy because you're doing it or braising it, that that flavor carries through. So that's what your brown meats. First, obviously you've salted it and it goes into your pan that you're going to braise with. Now, the first thing you do is you take that Remember that flat wooden spoon was tony to get, So you pour some water into wherever it is that you brown the meat, and then you use that flat wooden spoon to scrape all of the brown bits off the bottom of the pan or the roasting pan, and you pour that over the meat. You typically will then throw in some booze wine, bourbon beer, something like that, maybe a cup of bottle, however how much you want, and you you have to boil the hell out of it because you don't want to cook it with the alcohol in, and boiling burns off most of the alcohol. Is that what the reason why you would do that is if you're doing wine, you're adding acidity and it helps with a more balanced set of flavors, because a proper dish has a balance of sweet, savory, acidic, a little bit of bitter, a little bit of salty. So there's sort of the five taste that are on your tungue. You want to recognize that and make your dish accordingly. So for if I'm sorry, we're trying to achieve these five different types of flavors. Is that something you're trying to achieve in a single dish or in the meal, so like it should it be just in the roast or is that? Could that be the roast and the potato and the veggie or something like that. It's a good question. It's your choice, is the answer. So if it's a one pot meal, it should be in that pot. But it doesn't have to be in the pot the whole time. So i'll, i will, all will be revealed. So you you've but if you've added a city through wine, then you don't eat any more necessarily in the dish. But but what if you use beer. Beer isn't very acidic, or what if you use bourbon? Bourbon is not very acidic, That just as flavor. So then you need broth or water. You've got some water because you've just scraped the bottom of the roasting pan. A braise is a big piece of meat that is not completely covered by the liquid. A stew or a soup, and incidentally a stew are many pieces of meat that are submerged. A soup is really a broth that has a little bit of meat in it. So the difference between a soup and a stew is that and a stew the things that are in the broth are the star, and a soup the broth is the star. And so with all of those, you know, in a braise, you know you're aginally going to serve large pieces off that whatever, you know, either a whole shank or a giant chunk of you know, neck, or just a big old slab of that shoulder. Were as if you made a stew, you might want to use a hind leg because the hind leg you can get cleaner pieces of meat that don't have sent you in them, and so then when you bite into it, you don't have that kind of thing like you know, you know we've all done that, right, you know, there's a medicine stew and oh that's a great piece. In the next piece is not so great. That's usually a function of connective tissue which you did not cook it long enough for it to break down. So how long do you cook it? You cook until it's done. I mean, if it's a yearling boughton buck or something like that, it could it might really take ninety minutes. But if you've got you know, Mr big rack, or God help you, a bull moose or a bull elk which can live to nine twelve, fourteen, fifteen years old. You know you'll be there a while, but it'll get tender. Everything gets tender, just takes time. The worst I ever had the worst a rooster. Of all things I've cooked, I don't know how many different kinds of animals, and the only animal that almost beat me was it was like a five or a six year old rooster. That thing took eight and a half hours to get tender, like a pheasant rooster or no, no rooster rooster. Yeah. I have Italian neighbors, and they used to like randomly knock on my door and say, oh, eight time the chickens, Like all right, Dominic, I'll be over. And so that there was this one big, old nasty rooster and I just walked in there and it was like they have like their their coup is like thunderdome. It's like it's devastated inside by all the birds, you know, and it's caged up and the birds can't fly out, and it's like two beads or one man leaves. And so I finally cornered this chicken and grabbed it and rang it snack and and my friends were standing out there watching the show, were their eyes were as big as saucers. And I looked at it and like, look at that rooster that they had three inch spurs on it. I could have died. But anyway, we digress. Yeah. Wow, So you you're you're boiling off the alcohol, but then after that, you're you're bringing a heat way down low right to just a simmer exactly exactly, and then you just keep on rolling until you can start pulling it apart, probably right. That's how you can tell that it's done. And typically that what stays in there the longest, or the meat itself, because that's what you're really waiting on. And I usually have kind of a you know, onions and garlic and oil. Yeah, I cook somebody's and garlic in there as well, and have that cooking the whole time. And you add stuff to a braise or a stew in the order that it's gonna work. Right, So you're you assume your venicine is gonna take two hours, maybe two and a half bb three. So you don't want to put potatoes and carrots and things in there three hours in because they're going to disintegrate unless that's what you want, which is sort of the that's the theory behind a Kentucky burgoo is you know, you cook everything together and it just gets completely hammered and it tastes great. But it's just it's just a different way to do things. Um. Typically, though, you'll wait for the last ninety minutes and then you'll throw in like your root vegetable, and then you'll throw in stuff that's a little bit more tender, and then finally you're throwing in at the very end, like I don't even cook it. I just let the heat of the stew finish it. Things like parsley or time or herbs like that where that are very soft and very you know, they can go easily turn arby green, Like if I wanted to put like kale or turn up greens or something, I put those in maybe ten minutes before observing. Interesting, that sounds pretty good. I'm liking. Uh, I'm liking the idea here because that's just probably is hitting me because I'm really hungry, yight now and it's about dinner time and I haven't even yet. Yeah, I mean, like, so let's say if you crock pot it, I'll say you going to work. You throw you know, you've you're you're throwing everything in the audience, the meat, the booze, the broth, and it's you've you've browned everything you cooked off and then it's it goes to the crock pot. That you go to work, so you probably have a good thirty forty minutes of work to do before you get it to the crock pot. And then yeah, probably forty minutes, and then you get it. You come home, and then the second you come home, you throw in your root vegetables. Then you pop upen a beer. You talked to you know, talk to your wife, pet the kids or play with the pats or the opposite. I don't know what you guys do have kids. I don't know kids. So and then uh, and then by the time that you know you're done with that, then your root vegetables are done, and just throwing your your green things and then wait ten minutes, you're good to go. Nice. Sounds simple enough. It has endless variations too. Is there is there any other completely different way to think about doing a roast other than that basic slow cook in a crock pot or or a Dutch oven or something. Yes, hind leg roasts. Um, I only cut single muscle hind leg roasts. So what I do is I take a hind leg apart like a book. It's called seam butchery, and we talked a little bit about it last time, and it's it's all about respecting the individual muscles of the hind leg and working with them as individual muscles. And if you do that, you don't have to deal with, you know, the infamous like stake or the or the fact that you have connective tissue running right through the center of your roast, which is utterly changes the game. If you don't have that, then you can cook a roast more or less like a steak. So here's what I do with let's just say the rump roast, which is that big rectangular one that you'll get. It's one piece of muscle. All you have to do is you is you bring it to room temperature. And the reason I do that is because if you don't do that, the outside of that meat is going to be much more cooked than the center and you get what's called black and blue and some people like it, but I don't, So you salt the meat. Actually, here's what I do, all right, I got the roast, and I take the roast out of the fridge. I coat it with some oil, and then I salted, and then I let it sit there for half an hour. I turned or I'll turn the oven on and then just pop it right in the oven, cold oven. And then by the time it gets to be three degrees, which is when I said it at, you're good to go. Just all that's all you do. You're just sitting and there. If you really are concerned about excess browning, you can set the rost. You can set the roast up on celery sticks to keep it up off the bottom of the roasting pan. Gets a little better air circulation that way. I do this with birds. And then you cook it at three degrees until the interior of that roast. Oh, here's another piece of equipment. We forgot about a thermometer. You need to meet thermometer. Yeah, and you wait until that thermometer hits about a hundred. Then you take the roast completely out of the oven. And now you jack the oven up to and it's gonna take a couple of minutes. It will probably take fifteen minutes or so for your oven to go the extra hundred and fifty degrees. What it does, you put the meat back in the oven and brown it that way, and then when then when it's brown, which should take ten minutes fifteen minutes at that temperature, then you let it rest for a solid ten to fifteen minutes. And when you do that, here's a trick. You take the internal temperature right as you're resting it. It's gonna climb about ten degrees. It'll climb fifteen degrees if it's a giant rose, but typically a roast is gonna be five to ten degrees rise. If you're low, let's say it's a hundred and twenty and you want it to be a hundred and thirty five, which is a good medium rare tent it it will gain more temperature because you're holding in the heat. Do you guys know about this how carry overheat works? M I wouldn't say so, at least I don't. Okay, So here's why you cook low first and then hot second. If you put hot first to brown and then finish it up in the oven, it works. But the problem you have is you have a shipload of carryover heat on the outside of the meat and the interior does not have that. So the way carry over works is that it's it is the exterior that meat could be four hundred degrees, but the interior is a d and carry over as in that resting process is a redistribution of meat within the roast, or redistribution of heat within the roast. So what you get is that four hundred on the outside equalizes with a hundred and ten or hundred fifteen in the center, and you finally end up with a hundred thirty fred fort in the center instead of and the outside is much cooler as well. That's why hot things have more carry over heat. Big things have more carry over heat. Lean meat has more carry over heat. Went that that that's you're talking venicine in that case, because fat is an insulator and beef has quite a bit of it, but venicine doesn't. So it will tend to have at least a degree or two degrees more carrier heat than are comparably sized roasted beef. So there's it's, it's there's science in here. You know, it's tricky to some extent, but um, your general rule is hot second, because that you get more precision that way, and then God help you if you don't rest your your roath, because otherwise all of the molecules are bouncing around in that in that roast the second you take it out of the oven, and if you cut it at that moment, you basically have a niagara falls of juices. So when you said to tent it afterwards to even out that heat, that was after you take it out, tend to and you rest it with the tent right with aluminum foil. Yes, if it's a little low, if it's not a little low, if you're like, you're exactly ten degrees blow where you want it to be, don't tend it and just let us sit ten minutes, right, Just let it sit ten minutes, all right? Man, I always struggle with the rest. I know that you're supposed to do it, so I've been doing it more and more, but it always just seems counterintuitive to magic. It's gonna be cold, but I know, I know, I just need to resist and let it rest. So I'm trying, and Hank, I'm trying. Here. Here's what you should do. Would you take the meat out of the oven, then start making your pant sauce. It will force you to rest ten minutes. That's a good idea. Speaking of sauces um, and you know tangents were all about tangents. Here what a conversation is, Yeah, it sauces. What about what are some of your recommended sauces for for this type of thing, for for roasts and stuff like that. Well, you can't go wrong with gravy. Um, you guys know how to make a good gravy. I actually do know how to make a gravy. I don't know if it's a good gravy, but it's a gravy. Is it a flower a flower and butter gravy or is it a basic Okay, we throw some flour and make a sort of rue. Right, milk you could do a bill gravy. Uh. I'm not a huge fan of milk gravy, but that's just the person personal preference. Let's just let's take it a different way. Let's do a very typical pan sauce, something that I do on a weekly basis, either with venison, backstrap, I can do it with a roast, and I do it a lot with ducks. So, okay, you're done cooking at the meats resting. You've got all this fat in the pan, or if you don't, you had enough to have two tablespoons. You mince up a shallotte or a white onion, and I mean mince, I cut it small, and then you cook it in that fat. Then when it's mostly cooked, you're gonna want to take maybe a clove or two clothes in midst garlic and have that cook it for one minute, then pour in I like either port wine or red wine. You could go bourbon, you could go a multi dark beer, something with some character in it, and then cook that off, you know, boil it until it's almost sticky. And when one way to tell that is the entire surface of the pan will be bubbles, there will be no part of the pan that that is appearing to be still, then you're not stirring it. Then you throw in I like to cook down stock. I make my own medicine stock, and I'll cook it down until it's concentrated, and I'll throw a cup of that in and I'll boil that. And while it's boiling, I'll usually throw in a table spoon or two table spoons of either wild berry syrup or a wild berry jelly. Don't do jam, uh, And why would you do that? Because sweetness and berries go really really well with benicone and it, as it happens, pretty much every berry that we forage for deer also eat. And it's a it's kind of a truism that if if the animal eats it, you can eat it with the animal. So you've got a little sweetness, you've got a little booze, you got a little bit of stock to add some savory. You've got the audience and the garlic in there, you've got a little bit of fat. You boil that until you could remember your your wooden spoon with a flat edge on it, you could use it one more time. You're gonna scrape that across the middle of the boiling stuff, and if it leaves a trail that takes a second or so to to you know, disappear. You're ready and you can serve it like that. But what I do is I'll turn the heat off and I'll put maybe a tablespoon of butter in there and swirl it around. Sorry about that. Sorry, I think I think maybe I've tried that sauce before, maybe one of your other recipes online. I think maybe that was included because that sounds really familiar. Yeah, it's a it's a standard structure that I use all the time. I accidentally made a good gravy once, and it was your standard flour gravy, but then I, uh, I added like a couple uh spoonfuls of apricot jelly, and it worked. It tasted really good, and I've never been able to replicate it again in a gravy. In a gravy, yeah, yeah, that'll work. Basically making you're making kind of yeah, you're making a kind of a rude based sauce spaniol if you wanted to get That's what I was going for. Wow, a little bit of tomato paste is another good idea too. You mentioned uh sorry, go ahead, Yeah, I mean you make that regular gravy, the regular brown gravy, the rue and the stock and everything, throw one spoonful of tomato paste and it'll it'll be surprised how good that is. You mentioned stock there, You make your own venice and stock. How do you do that? And and and is it that much better than anything else? You know? I do it because I don't live in white tail countries, so they're I'm lucky if I get too dear a year, and I want to get the most out of every animal that I bring home, So and I butcher all my own animals myself, so I have all the bones. You need bones, and you need a little bit of meat to make a good stock. So what I do is I will take leg bones, you know, And this is I gotta. I can ask this question a lot from white tail hunters, because oh what if I live in an area that has chronic wasting disease. Well, in that case, if you have not tested your if you've not tested your your dear, then I would only use the leg bones because if your deer happens to have that rogue protein in it, chances are it's going to be either in the spinal column or in the heads. So I wouldn't use anything from the pelvis to the head. And you roast those bones. And I also add to make it a better stock, maybe I you know, bits of ribs, maybe the beat between the ribs, all that weird sent you that you trim off. All of that goes great in the stock. You know. It's a way to not waste anything. I mean, you should see. I mean there's when I'm done with a deer, what's left in the trash. It doesn't even fill a one gallon bucket. You know, because it's can it can all be used. They just roast that the same way you'd roast meat for a for a braise, and then you you know, you basically cover it with water and then you cook it very very very slowly for as long as you can stand it a bit of a four hours and I and I generally go overnight, and then after that you just filter it out. Story After that usually put in vegetables and I'll let that cook for another ninety minutes and then I filter it and then you can it can keep in the fridge for week to ten days, then the freezer for kind of a year or so, or you can pressure canon for a year, and then that's what you're using when you're making a pot roast or something right for your for your broth, you're just putting that venus in stock in there s Yes, absolutely, I like that idea. I love the idea of of using that from an old deer, to from a past deer to cook another deer or maybe the same deer. Shoot. Who knows, that's pretty cool? Um, how about another cut of of of venison of deer? What about well, I don't know if you call it cut, but what about our ground venison. There's the standards make burgers um and then there's a whole ton of other ways to use ground. What are some of your favorite ways to use ground venison. I'd love to dive into some of those, but before we get to that, Hank, we need to pause for just a minute or two to thank our sponsors of this podcast episode Redneck Blinds, and last week we heard from Seawan Lucktell Heartland bow Hunter about how Redneck hay bail blinds have changed his hunting, and I thought today I shared just a couple of quick examples of how those blinds have changed my hunting and how I've been able to utilize them in the field. Now, I personally first tried to hay bale blind from Redneck this spring wal Turkey hunting, and good things start happening pretty quickly, as that very first morning, a hunter from one I kill a nice guy blur that had no idea was there. Then the next afternoon, actually I was able to call in another tom to that same blind right and close while my dad, myself, and my friend Josh all were in the blind and my dad was able to kill that town which was actually his very first Turkey, so that was just an awesome experience to share with my dad. Now fast forward to this October and me and Josh were in that blind again and we had a great hunt and killed the dode just fifteen yards away that I had no idea we're there again. I think that's the coolest thing about these blinds. They are so dark inside no deer can see you, and being hey Bill, they simply blend in with what dear are used to. So you know, in short, I've been pretty darnhappy with these blinds. It's a blast hunt from being on the ground and knowing that you're gonna be so well concealed makes for a great hunt. So, if you're interested in trying out one of these Redneck hay Bale blinds, as I mentioned last week, we've got a special deal for you. From now through the end of two thousand fifteen, you can get two dollars off your purchase of the Sportsman hay Bill blind. That's two hundred dollars off if you use the promo code WIRED. That's w I R E. D. Use the promo code wired at checkout. So visit Redneck Blinds dot com and use promo code wired to get two dollars off. Now let's get back to Hank, who's going to fill us in on his favorite ideas for ground venison. I think probably the the ways that I that I might do that maybe not everybody else does, because everybody does meat loaf and everybody does burger. Everybody's just chili. Um. I really like meatballs, and I make lots and lots of different kinds of meatballs. Uh. And it's because peo balls are a fun to eat and be pretty much every culture that eats meat eats meatballs, and even the cultures that don't eat meat eat things that look like people's fair enough. And so you could go Japanese, you could go Middle Eastern, you could go Italian, you could go Greek, you could go German, go Swedish meatballs, you go British. You know, virtually every culture you know there's Albondicos Mexico, virtually every culture that they all have a people, it all works with ground medicine. And it's a really good way to use up tons and tons of ground. I mean, in fact ground, My ground medicine typically goes before my backstrap. H Wow, So how you any keys to a good meat ball. Fat. You can't do it that fat. I mean you can't, but they suck. Um. I've had. You know, you could just put a look at egg and some bread crumbs. You could, but they're just not nearly you know. That's a pale shadow of what a meatball really should be. So when you say fat, how exactly are we putting the fat in there? Are you're just saying we should have pre ground our our venison with fat, or we're adding something additional afterwards when we're actually making the meat ball. I would say you should have preground your vedicine with fat, and I choose pork fat, but some people to be fat. I'll also toss in a little bit of venison fat for flavor. But if you did it, if you had fatless ground medicine, which is a sad thing, um, then yeah, I would ground up some bacon and if you don't have a meat grinder, handy, just chop up some bacon and throw it in a food process or buzz itt until it's quasi a paste and then throw that in there. You've got to have some fat otherwise it's just it's just gonna taste weird and then from there we're basically rolling up some some ground meat into balls and we're just tossing the oven or is there. Well, you know, you've got spices you can put in, you've got a you know, a good meatball. Virtually every culture's meatball has a bread product or something like either rice flour or bread crumbs or bread soaked in milk. Uh, you know something like that, Marley, I've seen that because it's sort of counterintuitive. You would think that it would be a better meatball if it was all meat. But for whatever reason, they tend to be a little bit lead and a little bit um like you know, bullets. Would you have bread clubs or some kind of a bread product that they're much lighter and fluffier, and they're much more fun to eat. M interesting you mentioned a second ago. My mind's going here because you mentioned meat loaf as one of the standards that so many people try with ground venison, and growing up, I like hated meat loaf. Meat loaf was just sounded nasty and every time I tried it was kind of gross. Um. I had the same thing. Yeah, but I tried your recipe and I now love it, like as one of my top couple things that I get excited about us cooking is that venison meat loaf recipe. How do you make a meat loaf that doesn't suck? You don't think of it as a meat loaf. You think of it as a giant beat ball. And if you think of it as a giant meat ball, you know, with the bread in it, with some vegetables in it, with some uh you know, some seasoning already in it. But the key is that, you know, and it is to is to work that mixture so that you get a bide and then cook it and think of it like a meatball and you're good to go. I mean, I had, Oh God, that's really dreadful people or beat loaves of my time, and it's it's usually because they didn't put enough fat in it. It did it didn't bind, it got crumbly dry, or they decided that they were going to put like big pieces of cheese in the middle of the meat loaf, and that would like melt, God terrible. You know, I could see there being a lot of of miss foul players on the meat look like that. Yeah, I just up in a good meat loaf of house that's good with yours. What style of beatleof did you grow up with? We had the two kinds. We had the one where it was just your basic egg bread crumb mixture with bacon on top, with the the catch up type mixed with brown sugar type layer on top. And the second one was a uben so it was actually ground up turkey with sauerkraut wrapped in it and then the same kind of bacon and catch up crust on the top. It was really good. That one sounds kind of cool actually. M wow, Uh, I'm gonna stick to my masts and meat look interesting though. Uh, I'm I'm kind of playing scatter board here. What about the chili you mentioned? Chili? That's something everyone likes to make with ground venison. I think this might be true for everyone, but everyone thinks they have the world's best chili recipe. That actually is right. I think my wife's is the best chili, but I saw yours and you're claiming it as well. Hank. Can we talk about chili? What makes it? One way to to solve that problem? Tell me we have to have a chili cook off. I'll be I will be the judge. Deal. I don't have much Hope set this up. Mark, Yeah, we should, but so first then Hank tell me your secrets. So my chili is a little bit different from a lot of chilis most of the country because, um, my chili takes a very deep nod to actual Mexico and it has very little tomato product in it. It's it's got a little bit of tomato paste, but mostly it is it's chilies. It's dose dried chili's that you get into Mexican market and they're pure, they're reconstituted and purred. And then it has molasses in it. It's got coffee in it. It can have beans. I typically do do beans, but when I'm in Texas, I leave them out because they will kill you if you put beans in Texas, in Mexico or in Texas, they they get really uptight. Like all of your listeners who are from Texas likes nice step, but there was beans in it. It was not chili. They really like. They really take it seriously. Um And I will most often use round meat, but sometimes I use chopped or you know, cubed or diced meat as well. And it's the it's just a very different chili that most people make it's not very heavy on vegetables. It's got a lot of ondions in it, but no green peppers, no, nothing else kind of floating around in it. It's all of the vegetables that you want with it. We'll go on top, you know, like cilantro and pickled pickled onions, and you know, chili pepper is that kind of thing. M pretty spicy, it can be, but I typically make it so that it's just very warm. And then if you want to make it spicy, either throw hot sauce on at the end or you pick through pickled alopanos on at the end. I love that. Is there any other you know? I think the standard soup of sorts I don't know if you technically call soup, but the standard venison or ground venison type soup is a chili if we're talking about that kind of meal. I've never tried any other types of soups, I guess, other than like a basic beef and vegetable soup, but mixing invents on instead of the beef. Any other soup ideas for venison, ground vents and or otherwise, I don't know that I would do it with ground that is, although meatball soups are really good. So you can make a little teeny meatballs and throw them in the soup. Those are great. Uh. In fact, I have a recipe similar to that, you know, Italian wedding soup. It's you know, that's great with venison um. And you can do it one or two ways. You can do it with a little teeny meatballs, or you can do it. There's a there'll be a recipe for it. Actually, my next book is this other way is you take the shank or your shoulder or neck and you just braise the heck out of it and then you shed it up and then it's a very thick stew made with the broth that you just raised that with and lots and lots and lots of vegetables and it's just it's a it's a rib sticker and it's got lots of cabbage and you know things like uh, you know, chickor ease in it and dandeline greens and you know kale, and it's it's a really good, good, hearty winter soup. And it's just it's used really garbage parts of the venisine. Sounds pretty good speaking of all that stuff you just mentioned dandylion greens and kale and stuff like that. If I wanted to make like like all from the field meal. So I've got some vegetables from my garden maybe, and I've got my venison. What would like the best all purpose the thing I can grab from the woods typically to add to my my meal? Would it be like a dandelion green or something like that, or what should I be looking for it comes to gathering something natural that might be an all purpose type deal? Well, can you could do a lot worse than morell mushrooms, that's for sure. Yeah, that's true. Um, and they dry really well. He's all year round, you know, dandlines are good. Um, you know if you're up in the Great Lakes wild rice, um, you know. God, it's just that's a hard question because you're just where are you? What time of year is it? You know, It's just there's there's so many variables of what you could possibly do. But I mean the one thing that pretty much everybody listening to this will have some kind of access to would be morale mushrooms. And they're so good. Oh yeah, and they dry perfectly well. So I've got jars and jars and jars of them, you know, basically dry waiting for venison season. Yeah, that's that's one thing that I never grew up in a mushroom hunting family or anything like that, but I've decided that I need to get into that because holy smokes, they're good. Oh yeah, I mean I live in the West, so I have an advantage. Uh, Wherever there was a big giant fire the year before, then I I go there the next year, and that's where the morales are. You guys have natural morales, and so you have patches that come up year after year after year, and they're heavily guarded. You know. I know guys who I know, guys who have just gone to their deathbed and they haven't even told their wives where those mushrooms were. I've got a buddy who's dad will let you turkey hunt his various farms and properties. But if you touched morels, you're you're as good as dead. You better not touch the morels. That's hilariy because he probably knows to Like, yeah, there's always like rumors of how many pounds of morals he's found, but you never know where. He never he never shares what state is this. Oh yeah, yeah, that's gotta be May too. That's late Yep, that sounds about right. Yeah. When I pick up morels in May, I'm usually at six thousand feet. Wow. I rarely get over sixty ft here in Michigan. So moving moving on from from ground, let's talk our backstraps. Last time we talked, I think we we asked you about like the perfect way to grill a steak, and I think you talked about some stuff with a backstrap there um, But any other unique preparations or any of other standbys that we didn't talk about last time when it comes to using that backstrap, I'd love to hear a couple of different ideas for for our listeners on that. Well. One of the interesting things this is, you know, it's a little sporty. You're talking about unique, I mean other than just cooking in a pan. I really like I really like Dennison tartar. And you make it out of the back strap, and you know, if it's if you never had that that's basically chopped raw of innoson and it's served with usually with shalats and often with some roasted red pepper and spices and salt like usually crunchy salt, like you know that big crunchy flaky salt, and you drop an egg in the centermt you know, egg yolk, and it's a classic dish. It's big, big in Wisconsin. I first actually had it Wisconsin and you yeah, actually with toast. Yeah, although I've seen it, I've seen to eat a little ghetto with like wonder broad and like really, guys, all right, but I mean it's the reason why you can do that is is no one really gets sick from edison. Is it possible, Yes, it's possible, But in terms of a food safety standpoint, if it's been frozen, if you're fresh, I mean, it's just people just don't get sick from it. Um, what you would want to do, if you were at all worried is deal with it right out of the freezer. It should be cold anyway. It's also easier to cut when it is right out of the freezer. And because and you have to cut it. I personally don't like ground meat tartar. It's weird to be I like it. Uh. You what you do is you take a little piece of backstrap maybe I don't know, A little goes a long way with tartar. Let's say your feeding for for and you wouldn't feed it as as it's kind of a party appetizer. It's not something that you you sit down with a big plate of. So maybe take a half a pound and it's it's semi thought, you know, and you could that makes it very easy to cut into very small dice. The French shirt would be a brunoi, which is I think French for the worst cut you're going to make your rookie chef do, because this is these tiny little dice. You know, for tartar doesn't have to be dice, but you know, brunei is actually squares. If they're not squares of head cheff yells at you. But anyway, small pieces is what I mean. And if you do that and then you mix things with you know, I have a I have a recipe very happy with on the website, which is I could share with you if you want. Um. That recipe is very Nordic and h it is it's done almost exclusively with backstrap. Let me bring it up here. I don't have a memorized sorry we won't judge. I know I have like a thousand recipes on the on the site, and it's it's one of those things like, well you're rememberable, Like no, that's why I have the website. So it's basically venison cut into tiny little pieces. We're still talking to tartar yes um with a one one shallotte also cut into little pieces. I used to I need to take some juniper berries. I really like the taste of juniper with medicine. That would be another one of my all time go to spices. You know, if you can find juniper berries or buy them online or whatever, venicine and juniper love each other there. I use them as as many as much as you can, So I chopped them up really small, maybe just one or two, just to get some flavor because it can be strong. A little bit of caraway seeds, a little bit of ground black pepper, smoked salt. Smoked salt is a huge one because it adds that smoky flavor without actually putting heat to it. And then when you serve it, I'll grate some lemon zest over it. I'll add a little bit of rent vinegar like right at the end, and then toss that together and then everybody gets an egg yolk. And it's the eight you crack that egg yolk and it becomes the sauce for the tartar, and it's it's really really good. It's a it's a great bite. Serving the crackers or bread or something crispy. Sounds a little out there for me, but I can I can see it being interesting. If you wanted to strip it down, uh to it's classic form, it would be salt, shall it, black pepper, a little bit of of acid, you know, citrus or or vinegar right when you serve it, and then the yoke. I've had tartar before and I believe it was lamb tartar, and it was it was pretty good. It was different, but I liked it. It's venison sushi. Yeah, I guess so, speaking of out there. On our last episode with you, Hank, you probably I think you saw us on Twitter. On on our last episode, we had asked you for like one really out there venison recipe that people should try, and you had said, roast the whole head. I think the venison barbe coole with the head. And did you see that on Twitter? One of our listeners actually tried it and pulled it out. That's pretty cool. I'm always somebody by I have a very uh, every now and again, I'll get all chefe because you know I can. And and so I did this dish called Snow and Winter. It's kind of like a Nordic death megonal, you know, recipe for snow goose, and it's I love it. It's a great dish, but it's all black, you know, the like the whole plate is black, and it's like you eat it at solstice. Somebody made it. I was like, oh my god, somebody actually made it. That's so cool. That's gonna be pretty cool, just everything, probably all the different recipes you put out there when you when you hear from people, I imagine that's got to be pretty pretty failing seeing people enjoying those recipes. It really is, I mean, especially because you know the ones that I I really it's kind of both, like I love the fact that I have like a billion positive reviews on my smoked salmon, on my venice and chili, but I also have I really get a kick out of people who made like the thing like the snow and Winter, you know, the somebody who actually stretched and did something very difficult and it and it worked. Because you know, I read not only do my recipe work, but it was also equally important is that the way I wrote the recipe work so that it was clear enough for them to pull it off. That's a good point because that that's one of the I imagine the greatest struggles is conveying some of the nuance in how you're actually preparing it through you know, a simple sentence or two. Oh yeah, I mean that's why. I mean all the recipes that in the upcoming book, and in fact that the Duck book as well, they've all been tested by what I call civilians. You know. I don't let chefs test my recipes because they can read shorthand and they will naturally know what to do. I like to give recipes to regular people, people who are going to buy the book, and if they can make them, and if they like them, then I know the recipe works. Yeah, makes sense. I definitely need the layman's terms for our stuff, that's for sure. Oh yeah, what about what about the whole back strap? Now we're talking a dinner type portion. Um, we just you shared an appetizer, there anything, any man, there's there's a standard. Just just grill a hole with some salt um I've tried some different variations, I think, from you and from others with various like you mentioned berries, and all sorts of different sauces and things to pair it with any other favorite when it comes to to a dinner portion on the loin thing, what about stuffed loins? I don't people do that anything like that up your up your alley that you'd recommend, you know, I don't, Um, I I don't like stuffed loins. I think it's a stunt and I don't think the result is really very good. Um. You know, backstress your money cut, don't mess with it. You know, it's it is what it is, and it's just pure piece of meats that that could be enjoyed by everybody, and it is the it is the easiest, most accessible part of the deer. So I mean, yeah, I like sauces with it, but most of the time it's like salt, fire and pepper, maybe a squeeze a lemon. You know, It's just I don't. I don't get too esoteric with back strap very often. Now you can make you could throw it curry, you could throw it in a in a Vietnamese soup like fuh you, I mean you could do Chinese food with it. You know, you can do all of those things, and I do. But if if I really, if if I'm serving like a loin, like a whole loin, I'm not going to mess with it too much. Last time we talked about grilling the loin, so we talked about how to do it, you know, an outdoor grill. Could you walk us through how you would do that inside? Let's say we're in the middle of the winter, We're not gonna use the grill outside. Um, how would be the best way to prepare a whole loin if you're stuck inside? Just like a roast like we talked to, you know, about half an hour ago about how do that roast in the oven where you you start it low and then you too, you know, the interior temperature to maybe one ten and then the only difference though, and this one is you wouldn't put it back in the oven. You would see it on the h in a pan, on the stovetop. So basically, you take your whole a souper use a boneless piece of venisone. It doesn't have to be. You could be chops. But but you know, you know, talking about a rack all attached to chops, and you take that and then you you know, you salt it, you oil it, you and you cook it the oven until it's about and inside, and then you pull it out and then you just you sear it in a roaring hot pan with just a little bit of fat, you know. I like to use in this case, like grape seed oil or canola oil, something that's a very high smoke point, and then you just sear it and get all of that crispiness on the outside. Did you let it rest and then you cut it. That's that's probably how I would do it inside because it's just it's a little bit easier to to control. Then if you try to do it all in the oven. M see that. That's that's new for me because for some reason I had it backwards. I was stearing it, you know, hot on the pan and then putting the pan in the oven and then letting go low and slow for a little bit then to finish it. But you're saying to the opposite. Either way it works. But again, if you do hot second, you have a little bit more control over the internal temperature. Interesting stuff, Dan, We're we're what are you thinking here? Where do you want to go with things next? I've been I've been controlling it for a way. So no, that's fine. I just this time in my life I do not have unless I have a weekend where I can. The kids are maybe drugged and they don't they don't move. They're just like every Tuesday basically basically, or when they're on you know, when they're on like sinus medication like they are right now. I might have some extra extra time to to cook what's the what's the maybe a good recipe for someone who has maybe less than an hour to cook a venison meal. Well, the croc pot stews and braises we talked about earlier, that's one of them, because that's one of those things that you do in the beginning and and you're you know, it's like thirty minutes when you get home from work. Um, you know, pieces of backstrap I typically will cut. You know, I don't shoot giant deer, so I will typically kind of foot foot lengths of backstrap. You know, you take that out when you come home from work to let it come to room temperature. You can just see her that in a pan. You don't need to knee the oven do that pan sauce. We talked about, serve it with some mashed potatoes or a salad. You're good to go. I mean I could do that in twenty minutes, gotcha. Hard to go wrong with that one. That's meat and potatoes, tych of good meal. Yeah, I mean it's you know, it's it's super easy. Um. You know, if you had flank flank meat from the deer, you can do fahitas. That's pretty easy. You can do fehatas with backstrap to you can do fehtas with you know, hole muscle roasts for the hide leg as well, because you're just you know, you're cutting it up into pieces and then just see here in it real fast, right, yeah, super fast, super hot. I'm getting hungry, yes for sure. Um. One of the things we we I've for whatever reason, I think head on the top of my mind earlier on maybe we were talking about smoker. Um, what about jerky. I don't think we've talked about this yet at all. Do you do you dabble and jerky or anything that I'll think, Oh, yeah, that make lots of jerky. I make both ground meat jerkey and uh in hole muscle jerky. Is there a, is there a simple way to to make good jerky? Yes? Um, well, if you the easiest way would be to I do a Chipotle jerky that I have on the site, and that's super easy. It's you know, all it requires is a is a trip down the Hispanic aisle of your local supermarket or to Latin market to get Chipotle and Adobo, which are very easy to find. Unless you live in a really, really small town, you should be able to find him. Uh. And if you don't have a no big deal, you can use like hot sauce if you want. But basically the structure is this. It is thinly slight pieces of nisine in a brine and the and then that you leave them in that brine in the fridge for two to three days because when you dry out the jerky, it's going to lose a lot of it's punch. You know. You you basically want to create an environment that is so full of flavor that you really would want to eat it as is. But once it's dried out, you're you're actually good to go, because it's it's everything mellows out in the drying process. So your basic brine, your minimum brine would be a quarter cup of kosher salt in one quart of water. And then when you have that, then you soaked the venicine and that for two to three days. That's it. That's all you really need. Everything else is gravy. I mean I do it with soy sauce because that provides salt. I do with Worcester shear. That's salt and acid. So I mean, the the basic rule is that you're burying it, you know, submerging it in a very alty, salty brine that has lots of flavor in it, and then you're drying it out. So your easiest way to make it is to take one of those big high leg roasts and have it partially frozen and slice it thin and then you put into the brine. And how do you need a special smoker to dry it out? Or have you ever done it just using your oven? Yeah? You can do with the oven. The new ovens now are very good. They can actually go down like one sometimes and you basically want to put your oven as low as it'll go. And what I would do is I would put it on a baking sheet that has a drying racks set on top of it. So because it's gonna drip. You can't just lie them in your in your oven. That's gonna be bad. And you don't want to put them directly on a surface because the underside is not going to drive very well. You have to keep flipping them over and over and over again. If you have them on a drying rack. If you have them on a drying rack, then you can, you know, just look, put them in the oven and it just dry. It takes I don't know, two, three or four hours to do it. The dehydrator takes longer because it's cooler. I've heard some people say you need to keep the oven door open with like a can of beer or something like that, like a you know, not full can of beer, empy can of beer. Um is why why it promotes air circulation. If you have a convection of it, turn the connection on. It's all about air circulation. That's why you know. Basically you're creating a very hot dehydrator by doing that, and then the drying wreck you mentioned, you could you could do the same type of thing maybe by putting a pan on the bottom shelf and then just lying your meat on the top, just rack in your oven. That could, but the grill, the greats of the rack on the top are very wide and you have to be dealing with very large pieces of jerky to do that. It's not impossible, but you want to fight or great than that. Okay, I think I can. I think I can make We can get a drying wreck. Essentially, take a drying wreck that would fit on top of a baking sheet and then you set it there so then there's like a half an inch gap between the baking sheet and the top of your drying wreck. Right. Yeah. You can get them in any supermarket, you know. You just go to this with the house the kitchen supply section of any supermarket and they'll have them. Okay, alright, cool. Yeah, No need to go to like Williams and Oma or anything good because I don't like shopping there. I know, very very very expensive stuff. Good stuff, but that's that's where you can have somebody else by it for you. Perfect for Christmas. Yeah. So, speaking of Christmas, I guess the last thing I have on my mind is if I am hosting a holiday gathering, what would be your single best recommendation for a main course for Christmas or whatever holiday gathering might I might have in the coming weeks. What would be your your go to if we haven't talked about it already, I would say one of the things that we talked about already, which which would be a big hind leg roast with you know, homemade cranberry sauce, smashed potatoes, greens, you know, the whole, maybe some dressing. You know, a really you know, like that big football roast that you get off the pine leg, you know, just the biggest roast you've got off the biggest piece of innocent and just done to a turn as slice thin, just like a roast beef and just nobody can say no to that. That's just a very classic we know that was served at the first Thanksgiving um. You know, there's no evidence that turkey was actually served at the first Thanksgiving UM. Either that or the you know, the whole crown roast of of backstrap. That's another really good way to go. H that's it. You want to cook? I mean, if you have the meads, you could slow roast and entire hind leg. That'd be kind of cool. I've done that before. You do that in a big smoker and that's pretty cool because you know there's nothing quite like hauling out a big old bunch of venison on a on a big table and slicing off pieces and throwing about people that have the well factor, that's for sure. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Well, shoot, I think, uh, I think I've got some good ideas to bust out this holiday season. What about you, dandy feel a little bit better about up in your game? Well, as soon as this is over, I'm just gonna go buy the book. Well that's an issue, though, Why is it an issue? Because I don't think the book. The book, the Venison book, at least tank is not available yet. But can you tell us about that now? Actually, sure, the Venicon book, which is buck Buck Moose, which is we wanted to name it that because it's dealing with all different antward things, so not just deer um. We got funding for it on a Kickstarter lass you know, November, and it's going to come out in the middle of we're shooting for late August. You can order it on Amazon now, so that's a good thing. So if you look for buck Buck Moose on Amazon dot com, you'll find it and then you can you can reserve a copy. In the meantime, I would direct you to the website, which is Hunter Angler Gardner Cook. It's honest, dash food dot net. And the easiest way really to find me though, is just to google my name. If you google my name, you'll find Hunter Angler Gardner Cook and just look for venicine recipes. And I've got, oh, hell, I don't know, maybe fifty sixty venicine recipes on the on the website, and then that should tide you over until the book comes out. Yeah, I I definitely recommend you do that, Dan, because I think I mentioned the first time we talked with Hank, but basically not not all, but almost all of the great venicin recipes that we whip up here on a on a regular basis are our Hanks. There's definitely been a lot of good ones. Like I said, the meat the meat loaf is a standby the way you do the backstrap. We've done that a lot. Um The saucy you mentioned, we've tried. We love that. So there's there's a lot of good stuff there, So highly recommend it. I'm looking forward to the book too. I I think, well, I know, I contributed to the kickstar campaign, so I've got one guaranteed to come down the roads. I'm excited about that. And like you mentioned, Hank, honest, dash food dot net is the place to go get more information for you. And then you mentioned it's on Amazon the book to right, Yep, yep. Cool. Well, Dan, I guess you can't get the recipes from the book now, but you can pre order, so there you right, I'm talking about the other book. I was talking about the other book. There's some good stuff in their Hunt Gathered Cook. Yes, there are. There's there's way fewer that is the recipes of that book, but they're they're enough to get you tied out. There's enough to tide you over. A long story, long story short. I just need to buy the book and go to the website and start following your instructions instead of doing trying to cook myself. Yeah. I mean I can say you have to, but I mean you couldn't. I'm gonna I'm gonna say. I'm gonna say that. I think I think to your point, Dan, kind of is that there's something you said about just trying new things, right, I think some of us kind of fall into the old I will just put ground venison the stuff I usually put my regular ground beef in and make the same regular, same old, same old things. But there's a lot of fun in trying some of these unique preparations and going out of your comfort zone. So it's it's nice that there's someone in a resource like what you've put out their hank that can help us do that in a way that doesn't make for disastrous results. Yeah, I mean, I appreciate that. I mean, that's that's really why I do. What I do is is to is to be a trusted resource. And you know, so people, I mean, people work hard for their medicine, and I it kills me when I hear you know, I made this a night. I had a guy in Europe, you know, cook one of his things at centigrade when he didn't realize that my temperatures were fahrenheit. Oh no. And so what I did after that is I went through every one of my recipes, and you know, I have hundreds of them, and I I put degrees fahrenheit after every single one. They didn't wan anybody else to make that mistake. Yeah, that'd be a doozy, I bet. Yeah, Like, really, you really thought I was meeting It's like the surface of the sun that would be uh, some tough venison. I bet alright, Hank, Well this has been this has been great as as we've come to expect. So man, thank you so much for sharing this insight your ideas, and we'll be sure to include links to all of your stuff on the blog post for this as well. I appreciate it. All right, Well, good luck this holiday season with your various cooking escapades. I'm sure you'll be doing some things and and thanks again. Yeah, thanks for having me on and uh, I will talk to you soon. I bet it sounds great, Hank, bye bye bye. All right, Well, there you go. Another episode is in the books, and I hope you all found that as helpful as Dan and I did. We're both excited to get in the kitchen and try out some of these new ideas. Now, before we let you go, though, one important reminder. As we mentioned earlier today and as you mentioned last week, we've got an awesome sweepstakes going on foreword to Hunt, in which we're giving away some great prizes that first, pray excuse me. The first place prize is a brand new Bear archery arena thirty bow. Second prize is a sick gear Celsius Shackett and Fanatic Beanie. And third prize is a wired Hunt hat and T shirt. So to enter that sweepstakes, go to wired to hunt dot com slash Holiday and they'll send you to a Facebook page that's hosting this giveaway. Once you get there, you just need to enter your name, email address, birthdate, and a code phrase. And that code phrase was only shared during episode eighty three of this podcast, that was last week's podcast. I'm not gonna tell you what that code phrase is. Now make sure you listen to number eighty three if you haven't already, and once you get that code phrase, you'll also enter that in at the page I just mentioned. So the sweepstakes is open until December two thousand fifteen, and will then announce the winners on the next episode of the podcast after that. So again, visit wired to hunt dot com slash Holiday to enter that giveaway. Now. Also another reminder, if you've been enjoying this show, this podcast, we would really, really really appreciate if you would leave a rating or review on iTunes. Well over four hundred of you have already done that, and that's unbelievable and I just appreciate so much. Sharing that feedback with us is really helpful and it's very helpful and helping new people decide whether or not they want to listen to the show, So thank you so much for doing that. Speaking of thanks, we also need to thank our partners who helped make this show possible. So big thank you too, sick A, Gear, Trophy, Ridge Bear Archery, Red Nick Blinds, hunter A, maps Ozonics, Carbon Express, Lacrosse Boots, and the White Tailed Institute of North America. So with all that said, thank you again for joining us today. I hope you've got some new inspiration for the kitchen, and of course I hope you'll stay wired to Hunt.

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