00:00:02 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm your host, Mark Kenyan. This episode number one forty nine Tannis Show. We're joined by Jessica de Lorenzo and Alex Templeton, and we're exploring the unique experiences, perspectives, and challenges of today's female hunter. Welcome to the wire to Hunt podcast, brought to you by Sitka Gear and Tannis Show. We're joined by two avid hunters, Jessica de Lorenzo and Alex Templeton. And these are two women who are not just serious hunters, but also terrific ambassadors for the female hunting community in addition to being her core hunters. Jessica is a professional photographer out of Pennsylvania and Alex is a cattle woman out of Missouri. So I wanted to have Jessica and Alex on the show today to talk hunting and deer and photography and gear and stories, but also to talk about their perspective as female hunters. You know, what it's like getting into hunting as a female, what it's like now, how they feel about how female hunters are portrayed and treated today, maybe in public or in the media, and a whole lot more so we're gonna talk about deer and turkeys and antelope and photography and bows and hunting clothing and all sorts of good stuff. But before all that, Dan, what is new in the world of the nine fingered wonder? Still got nine fingers? That's good as as it're growing back yet. So there's that. Well. I worried one of these days you might come out and say, eight, I just never know what you're getting into. Oh, ship, the next time I lose something, it's gonna be like a whole hand or arm knock on wood right here. So what were you gonna say? I don't know what What was the question? Let's just asking what's new with you? Man? Oh? It's it's good, you know, same old stuff. I'm in a in a routine. I I, like I told you before we started recording. I have my office moved from out in this industrial park to downtown uh like downtown Cedar Rapids, Iowa, and I have to park in a parking garage. I have to fight traffic, I have to you know, take the skywalk back to you know, a building that is probably built out of cubicle parts. I don't know. It just sucks and yeah, well part of it, right, yeah, I guess. So what about this weekend? You did a good weekend, right, Yeah, a three day weekend, man, I tell you what. I had absolutely so much fun hanging with my family. Um, we didn't kill any turkeys. Uh, they were hend up pretty bad, but me and the wife found mushrooms and my stepbrother found mushrooms. We caught fish, and then my stepdad he killed thirty one pound tom with almost two inch spurs and like eleven and three quarters inch beard. Jeez, that's crazy, a huge, huge tom. And we had a meal on Friday night that was was it Friday night or Saturday night? Anyway? It was fish that we caught, turkey that we killed, and mushrooms that we found. All and everything that we ate for that meal was from the field to the table in less than twenty four hours. That is so cool. That is that is that is awesome? Yeah, that's just the ultimate sense of satisfaction eating meal like that. It's that there was better than eating my dear with you know, store bought side dishes, right, everything that we ate was completely organic, completely wild, and I don't know that. Yeah, like you said, sat complete satisfaction. And my daughter caught the fish that we ate, so that right there made it even better. Um, you know, I don't know. I don't know what it is. But as I get older, you know, just like spending time with a family and focusing less on myself as of right now, like turkey hunting, I don't even care. This weekend was so much fun. Yeah, it was nice to get out and hear some gobbles, but you know, this weekend was about family. I know it will change come fall when because deer are a little higher on the priority chart than turkey are. Yeah. Now, how much time is left in the season. Are you going to get to go up hunt yourself? Uh? Well, I got I got a shot done tag so that ends today actually, and we're recording this on a Tuesday. So uh uh, if I get a chance to go out tonight, which I doubt, I'm done well, Like you said, the good times and that's in the long run what's important. Did uh? Did your wife still a good time even though the birds weren't cooperating. She absolutely loves Okay, she loves going shed hunting now, right, and she loves finding mushrooms. So we found a lot of mushrooms. Um there. The weather has been warm, so it usually mushrooms just pop, right. So this year, with a warmer weather, they're saying that it's gonna be a longer drawn out um uh, a longer drawn out mushroom season. So uh, we're gonna go out a couple of times this week, I think a couple of times next week and see if we can't find some more. But I love mushrooms, man, very cool. Yeah, I'm hoping to find some out here in Montana here soon. Yeah they do, they have them out there, Yeah, yeah, they do. It sounds like I don't. I don't think the season is quite as kind of short and sweet as it is back home for me in Michigan. Stuff. I think it's more drawn out. But from what I understand, you can find them, you know, in lower elevations like the river bottoms early maybe like April and stuff, and then you keep on going later into the early summer and you can find them. I've heard, like June even up in some of these higher south facing hill slopes and burn areas and stuff. So so Yeah, We're heading from Montana tomorrow and I'm gonna do some shed hunting and some mushroom hunting hopefully these next few days, if the weather cooperates. Did you finalize any turkey hunting plans yet or what? Yeah, so that's that's one of the things I'm hoping to fit in when we get them out there too. But nothing's finalized. You haven't figured out details. Everything is kind of everything has been kind of a cluster. It's just been like chaos with all sorts of different things going on. And the weather has been really tough well, been like raining or snowing and crappy most of the days the past week and now this whole week ahead of us looks like every single day. Um So that's caused some challenges and you know, the adventures of of my first time using a camper on one of these types of trips. The the adventures continue. Um So, we've had some more fun things happened since we last talked, um most notably well, okay, so a place where are awning connects to the camper that got ripped out one day by wind because we hadn't put the awning up and it wasn't supposed to be very windy, but it was apparently enough to knock out one of these things I've had to repair that um our water pump in the camper now doesn't seem to work, so we can't get any water. Um So now we're filling up water bottles and stuff in town and then coming back and staying at camp instead of being able to use the fresh water tank that's in the camper. And two nights ago, I was woke up in the middle of the night by scurrying noises all over and scraping and chewing, and I spent most of that night not being able to fall asleep because every five ten minutes I'd hear something scurring around and I jump out of bed and try to kill it. Our camper has been invaded by mice. Oh Jesus. So the first night I was up to like two thirty, we made like homemade mouse traps trying to trying to catch this thing by taking the trash can and we put a rope a piece of string across the trash can, and then put a beer can on the rope so spinning, you know, so it could spin on the string. And then some peanut butter on top of the can, and then like a bridge leading up to the garbage pan, and then and then water inside the garbage can, so that the trick would be the mouse would smell the peanut butter up on the can, he'd climb up to the top of the can, walk across the rope to the beer can, and then when he steps on that to try and get the peanut butter, it would spin and he'd fall into the garbage can drown. So that was our idea um that we got online. It did not work, but it seemed like idea um. So that was night number one. Then yesterday we went to the store and bought all sorts of real mouse traps and mouse repellent and all sort of stuff, and I tried to find where they might be getting into the camper and tried to close some areas up. We bought some like seal foam to try to fill gaps, and set like six mouse traps. Went to bed, woke up in the middle and I heard more scurrying and chip chip chipping, and I'm getting so pissed and frustrating. I can't fall asleep because like every time I start to fall asleep, I hear these noises again, and so like two thirds in the morning, wake up again and I go check the traps he sprung. They sprung all the traps, but didn't catch a single one. So reset it woke up this morning, sprung all the traps, didn't catch him. So I don't know what to do. I can I can kill deer, I can kill turkeys, I apparently can't kill mice. So all right, here's here is this. You're gonna think this is crazy, right, So my grandpa had an old camper that he you used, I would say twice a year, right, and then it would park behind a barn, and every year it had tons of mice in it before he would go to use it. So here's what he did. He cracked a window in the camper, then took a garden hose, taped it to the exhaust in his truck and let his truck run and basically poison everything out. You know, he would basically that's how he fumigated the It would flood the inside of the camper and it was a real small camper, and then um, all these mice would just run away, they'd leave, And that's how he got everything out of there, and if there's if there's babies in there, they probably would die, I guess, I um, but that's how he did it and it worked, so maybe that's something you should try. You And then he would drive with the windows open down the road and by the time he got to you know, the state or the fares that he was showing his horses at, they would you know, the smell of that exhaust would would not be completely gone, but still be you know, not as bad as if you were I don't know in there, you know. Yeah, interesting, Well it's something to consider. Who knows if if this next if this next round tonight, Well we moved camp, we're leaving. We're leaving Jackson Hole today, heading to Montana. So I'm hoping that they have not nested and hopefully they're not living in the camp or now. Hopefully they were just like coming in overnight. So hopefully we left this group of mice that figured it out and I can try to continue to fill these gaps, but if not, we might need to take extreme measures. And I'll run the fumigation technique past my wife, see what she thinks. Hey, it's worth a try, man, anything anything at this point, I need a good sleep. I can't. Man, I wake up in the middle and see him running across the couch in front of us, or I saw it was just I'll tell you right now, my wife would not even be in that camper um. She'd be sleeping into hotel until the problem is fixed. Surprisingly, I'm more bothered by it than my wife. She's like, just sleep. I'm like, I can't sleep when these stupid things are running all over the place. But yeah, so you know, it's it's just been. It's just been one of those things, one thing after another. So we'll see. Hopefully Montana treats as well. And uh, well this some bear hunting, some turkey huntings, some shed hunting, some mushroom hunting, and hopefully no mice. So that's my story. And I don't know if this is bugs or if you find an o sage orange tree that has the big balls on him. You know I heard that if you put those repel. I don't know if it's bugs or mice, but those might help. I don't think they have those types of trees out here. I don't think I've ever seen them around here. But one thing we did try is peppermine oil. I guess concentrate peppermine oil is supposed to keep him out, but apparently it doesn't work because it didn't help us last night. But either way, we do need to we gotta wrap this one because we have got to give Jessica and out. It's a call. So let's take a quick break for our sickest story and then we'll get them on the line. All right, So, as I mentioned, we've got a great sick of story today from my good friend and fellow Michigan hunter, Josh Hilliard, and today he's are calling one of our favorite shared turkey hunts. We were walking out to where we're gonna get set up for the day and coming around the corner, I'm going ahead and walk scrap the edge of this food plot and sit in this blind that we had set up. And I believe you just did a little a little cost so we can sequence before we walked in there and make sure there's nothing roosted right there. Nothing usually does roost there, but along the whole that day, there's a there's a time right on the edge of that, on the edge of that food plot, and so we just dropped all three of us just dropped right to the ground and just stayed there. I don't know, We're maybe twenty minutes before daylight. So we just hunkered down there for a while. And because he got right yeah, he gobbled right there in front of us yet and uh, man, he couldn't have been all no more than forty yards away from us at that point, and uh we were just behind some tall grass. So he finally comes down out of the roost and and he was just hammering away at us. You kept calling calling. He he came on a string right to us, and and we're all laying there, and I think he had to be in fifteen yards away if that, if that. And I remember I looked at you and I said, are you ready? You were like, what do you mean? Am I ready? Like? Shoot shoot him? I pop up, I pop up, and I shoot him and I hit him, and he started kind of running off slowly. I could tell it hit him. So I just stood up and and ran a couple more spot steps and took another shot and dropped him right there on the edge of the food plot. But man, that was a it was a wild, a wild morning. It all happened really quick, and we had a bird within the first five minutes of daylight, and and I was all tegged out, yeah, and I will forever, I will forever laugh when I think of the phrase are you ready? Like, yeah, I'm ready? What about you shoot him? This was a sick oft story and on this hunt, Josh was wearing the Sick Ascent pants and jacket and a Stratus jacket as well. If you'd like to learn more about sick of Gear, you can visit sia gear dot com. And now let's get back to the show and give Jessica and Alex a call. Alright with us Now on the line is Jessica Di Lorenzo and Alex Templeton. Welcome to show, guys. Hey, g thank for having Yeah. Absolutely, And I have to apologize right out the gate because Jessica, you've been on as a Sick Story interview a couple different times and I have been mispronouncing your name all these different times until today. So thank you for correcting me. And I'm sorry for doing that in the past. No problem, okay, So, so I guess before before we go too far in this conversation for those who aren't familiar with the two of you, and I think a lot of people probably are, UM, but I'd love to hear a little bit more about yourselves. You know, what you're doing today, who you are. UM. Maybe Jessica, could you kick us off with a little bit about yourself? Sure? UM. I live in Pennsylvania, avid bow hunter. UM, I'm a full time photographer. I do lots of photography and the outdoors for hunting and fishing, UM and lifestyle brands things like that. UM big into white tails here in Pennsylvania. And it's the last year or two I've been getting my hands wet with some big game out west and whenever I have time, just kicking him off with five fishing. So you're enjoying outdoors and do my thing? Awesome? And what about you? Elx uh. Well, I live in northern Missouri and I'm a farmer and rancher UM on my family's farm here. And I've been hunting for as long as I can remember, and bow hunting since I was eighteen I guess I'm twenty four now, so for a few years and just been like I said, hunting all my life. And I've been really getting into bow hunting pretty seriously these past few years. And I've been fortunate to hunt, you know, several places all over the states, but bow hunting white tails here in Missouri is my favorite thing. I'd say that's my number one passion. It's what keeps me busy, so I love it. Yeah. Well, the both of you fit in very well with the two of us because we two are nuts about white tails, so we're definitely gonna talk about that. So but different than white tails. I actually saw recently on both of your Instagram accounts that you have both been on some successful turkey hunts. Alex, can you tell us about that. It looked like you were out with her with um, maybe a friend or maybe it was that your boyfriend possibly, Yeah, that was my boyfriend. Name is Rye. That was actually his first turkey hunt, his first turkey or he's from Canada, so when he like has no idea anything about turkeys, and I'm like a turkey fanatic, so like tells me, I'm like purky crazy and yeah, and I ended up getting in one and he shot it with his Boat's kind of funny. He's actually a guide what he does. He's a sheep hunter by trade, and yl deer and black bears and things like that. So I brought him down here to the Midwest and got some turkey hunting in him, and he loved it. So I guided as a guide. It's pretty fun. How did the hunt go down? Oh? Well, we actually hunted the same group of birds I'd been hunting him before he got here, and how I was having a heck of a time with them. I was having a hard time to get him to commit to my decoys, and they were responding in the calle really well. So I'll be honest, we got lucky and they came. We were at the right place at the right time, and they came through, and one came in and tried to beat up our Jake and I made a good shot on it. It was awesome. I'm glad it worked out the way it did. Heck yeah, I'd rather, as I say, I'd rather be lucky than good any day. Oh for sure. For sure. Of course, I claimed that it was all of my excellent calling and my strategy that made us get the turkey, But of course I don't know if that's true. What about you, jess Um. I headed out to Nebraska with my buddy j Clepondras, and we were um meeting up with Prairie Rock Outfitters. So we were out kind of like in the hill that I think they're called the Wildcat Hills in Nebraska, and we were going after my first Miriam's birds. So it was like a really neat combination of like spotting stock big game style out on the hills and then we find the birds and and get on on them and set up a blind and just do your classic turkey hunt from there. But um, it was super exciting and we had ton of action and actually I missed my first shot too, uh so that was like super disappointing, but I made it. I made it back and we ended up getting a really nice um Miriam's bird down with my bow, my my veil, So that was like the first kale that I had with my new actor data veil. So I'm super pumped about it. And so we just spent the rest of the time kind of like scattering the area out with the outfitter and we got to you stock some big horn sheep for photography, so that was really exciting. It was just overall pretty adventurous turkey hunt, not like turkey hunting in Pennsylvania, that's for sure. Yeah, the pictures looked amazing, just the terrain out there. Um, I was. I was pretty jealous of that. Yeah, it was a strenuous There was a couple of moments where the guys are ahead of me and I let them off first because there was rattlesnakes everywhere. So I was like, well, you guys can find the rattlesnakes and warned me if you're ahead of me. So I spent them first, and uh, going up some of these hills and these like sandstony cliffs that were crumbling, I was a little bit intimidated, but we got it done and nobody plummeted to their death, so I think it was a success. Let's say so, no rattlesnake place, No, no falling off cliffs and dead turkey. That's a that's a pretty good trip around. Yeah, that's awesome. I'm actually we were talking about a little bit ago. I'll be going on my first hunt for Miriam's bird in Montana here in the next week and a half or so, so I'm I'll be chasing turkeys and cliffy bad lands this country with rattlesnakes too, So we'll see if I can get as lucky as you did. Let's see. Yeah, thank you. So, so what about white tails? Then, um, Alex, you you killed the prettyness eight point of this past year, is that right? Yeah? I did here in my home state of Missouri. How did that go? How? How was the season in general? Well, the season actually kind of slow. We didn't really have the weather that Actually Jess and I were actually hunting together in Illinois. When was that, Jess, like the end of October. Yeah, that was right before Halloween, I think. Yeah, we were there right before Halloween and the weather was hot and we just weren't seeing very much movement. So I came home to Missouri and then kept hunting every day and I was hunting on one of my favorite farms and this buck came out and I thought it was your lucky day, but I let him have it. It ran about sixty yards and piled up, and that was my first kill with my occupative ail too. So hopefully the first of many. Well yeah, hopefully it's not going so well. Yeah, but I just saw a few days ago you posted a little video. I think you're out turkey hunting from a blind and you were watching a deer, a buck that you didn't have his antlers that had shed and you were you captations are mentioned. This is a buck that you've been chasing all last year, but you hadn't been able to connect with him. Um, can you tell us about that buck? And you're struggle? That was like the craziest thing I have lost sleep over this year. I mean, it's just one of those things that like, I just I can't a games um so act. I actually nicknamed him Big Nasty because he's got like a broken front leg or something. I have no idea what happened to him. He showed up on my trail cameras, like I think last June. I think is when I or July, I can't quite remember. But he's not going to break any records with his racks eyes. He's just a mass, you know, a nine pointer with some pretty good mass. But he's got this disgusting front front legs because where he gets the nicknamed big Nasty because it's nasty. So I was like, I really want to kill the period because he's you know, solid rat too. But just the fact that I feel like he should be in pain and be miserable. I don't know, but apparently this deer is just all over the place, and so I parted him all last year. I actually had a couple of encounters with him. I was hunting over a decoy end of October, right after Jess and I got home from Illinois, and he came in and he was like, I think forty yard broadside, which you know, it's a shot that I am comfortable with. But I thought, Okay, he's gonna posture up to my decoy and I'm gonna get a twenty yard broadside shot. So I waited, so there was absolutely no posturing up to the decoy. He went zero to sixty and attacks the thing and ran away. Yeah, And I was like, I now it was I should I could have would a thing. I think maybe I should have tried him, but you know, he could have just as easily postured up to it in front of it, and I could have smoked him, hopefully, But that didn't happen. And I had a couple other encounters with him where he just never came close enough. So I looked for his sheds all spring. I hadn't gotten really any trail camera pictures of him or anything since he dropped his horns, but I you know, I was looking for him I wanted to find his match set. So then lo and behold, I'm sitting in my turkey blind and I see a deer and I'm like, oh, oh my gosh, that's big nasty there is. And he walk ended up coming up like twenty yards away and like stomped at the decoys, and I feel like he knew that I was in there, and he knew exactly what he was doing, you know, And he had little nubs on his head. So I don't know what his racks gonna do this year with that messed up leg, but I'm excited to see. Yeah, that's awesome to know that he at least made it this far, um, I know. And it's actually on the side of the farm where I you know, I run cameras kind of all over this particular farm, and I had never seen him over there, so like I, I didn't really expect to be seeing him around there, you know, I wasn't expecting to see him at all. So it's kind of it's kind of meat. So it makes me makes me pumped up and ready to get out there and playing some food pots and get rolling for next fall. Heck. Yeah, so so I've got a buck that I've been hunting the past few years that kept me awake all night a lot. And you know, coming into this year, there's all sorts of things that I learned last season in the year before that I'm trying to analyze now and now trying to have some changes to my strategy for two thousand seventeen. Is there anything that you learned from hunting Big Nasty last year, Elex, that's gonna you know that you're gonna change or week for this coming season when you chase him. Yeah, a few things were like I I started to realize that he was entering and exiting one of my food plots from a completely different location than what I was expecting. So I know, I'm going to switch up some stand locations, which it could be, you know, completely different this year. But I plan on trying to do some scouting and run a lot of cameras and really trying to figure out exactly where he's at, and you know, trying to figure out exactly how I can pinpoint where he's at and where he's going to be coming in and try to get on him early is my plan. So but at these year said's been done, you know, and then of course we're in the rat Champs. That's going to be every man for himself out there. Hopefully I'll just be in the right place at the right time, is what I'm hoping. Yeah, last year, was he just a rut buck, Like did you see him in the early season or was he the whole fall or what? I had pictures of him last summer when he started coming into one of my cameras and uh I saw that, you know, he had the broken leg then and I'm not even sure if it's actually broken, it's just swollen and disgusting. So, uh, yeah, he started coming into one of my cameras and then I never saw it in person until the end of October, So right about when the pre ruts starting to come in, you know, end of October, beginning of November is when I started seeing him in person, when he started showing himself during daylight hours. So I'll definitely be keeping that in money and you know, trying to hunt him smart and trying to outsmart him. But if he's so far, he's winning. Yeah, they tend to do so more often than that. Yeah, it makes it fun though, I've I've enjoyed it. I was really hoping I was going to match up this shed this year. I'm a terrible shed hunter, so that's not too surprising that I didn't find him. I hear you, I hear you. So what about you, Jess? How'd your how'd your white till year go? Last year was a lot of the themes Alexa. The weather was so warm, and we had scheduled some hunts, like for the peak rut dates that we all anticipated, and then it was like summer until December, so slow on the movement. And the most exciting moment I think white tail owning last year was actually the same hunt with Alex and I was sitting one night in a totally separate location and like this we had. We were watching, um, a pretty nice like one thirty one eight point bedded down on a bank of like a stream, and um, this was a little bit later in the hunt, so I pretty much anticipated on trying to shoot that book if he graced me with his presence. But he didn't lay there the whole time and didn't really respond to any kind of calls or anything. Um, and then it's getting late in the evening and now at the corner of my eye, I just see this black, massive blobs start coming out of of of a stone row, and I look up and I look at the my caravan and we both just our mouths dropped. It was like a one sixty one seventy year and he's just like thumping across the field and he's heading straight for a reb line, and we put out a grunt and he turned his head and it was just like that feeling where the like that broadside rat comes front side, like like my heart sank. I was like, holy crap. So he started coming towards me after that grunt, and at that point I was like, holy crap. If he crosses this little ditch, it's on. And my stand was placed like right in an opening between two fields, so I was anticipating him walking right through there to look for that that buck that was grunting, and he kind of made a few more looks, his tails flicking, and he didn't see anything. Had I had a decoy there, I think it might have ended differently, but he looked a little longer and then he just high tailed it right back for his reb line and we didn't see him again. But that was like the most heart stopping moment of my whole season. Um, I had a couple more encounters with some smaller bucks at home, but no shots, and I wasn't following any particular deer last year at home. It's just like, nothing spectacular happening. It's a dry spell last year or two. As far as the box. It's been successful with getting does and things, but there's been no trophy whitetail hunting in Pennsylvania on any of my properties anytime in the in the recent future. Yeah. Yeah, It's funny. Every week I spend most of every day either like writing about white tails or talking about them on the podcast or doing something related to them. And still I don't know about you, Dan, but like just hearing Alex and Jessica tell these stories like it even got me like fired up even more, like I'm all right, I'm ready to get back out there, sit over the decoy like I'm pumped right when Alex starts talking about oh, I gotta make sure I switched to stay in location on this uh this year, because the wind's gonna change, you know. I get to thinking and stop paying attention to you guys, which is bad, and I'm thinking in my head, okay, if the wins out of here I need I might need to move my stand as well, so you know, it's always calculating that next move. Yeah, always something like there's always something else that you're thinking about, wanting to do different or wanting to try. Like it never ends. Yeah, never, And I guess that's why we love it so much. So so that's awesome and I'm I'm already stoked, like we just said, but I want to talk about another element of of kind of your guys experience is not just actually out there chasing animals. But one of the things I want to discuss with you was your unique perspective as female hunters. Um. So, I guess I'm kind of curious to first kind of hear about how you both got into hunting, and you know, was there any unique, any unique elements to that being a female, or any challenges or anything that we're notable Um, Jessica, I don't know if you want to kick that off. Sure, Um I got I hunted a little bit with my dad when I was younger, but it wasn't something that was like seriously passionate about. Um. I was involved with other things as like a teenager that kept me busy. And then once I like as an adult graduate early to college and moved I'll have a pretty decent sized piece of property and just started getting more into the outdoors and they just sort of evolved from there. And then the last few years it's just been like crazy overload hunting every single day, whether I'm actually hunting or planning for hunting, preparing for hunting. So it just was like a natural progression for me once I was a little bit older. Um. And so since I got into the hunting, the archery kind of evolved from there too. Um. I've basically I basically only archery hunt now. I hardly ever take out a gun unless it's for turkey once in a while. UM. So that is like my background hunting. It's not like a very like I grew up hunting every single day. Story, I kind of taught myself. I had a mentor um as well who really helped me out as far as the white tail hunting. And then my buddy that I grew up with high school, he got me my first turkey, so we've we hunt together all the time and I learned a lot from him as well. And then just a lot of people that I've met through UM, social networking and things like that. Like I've learned a lot from the girls I hunt with and through people that I've met working with Sickle and some projects. So it's like everybody that me I kind of take something from and I feel like it really enriches, like my knowledge based for hunting. So it's like, I'm still in my mind, I'm still a beginner hunter. I'm constantly learning, and I feel like I'm not past that newbie stage yet. Just everything is so exciting and so new all the time. Yeah, that's a fun place to be. It's Uh, I think that constant desire to learn though that never goes away. UM. I certainly still feel the same way myself. What about you else? You mentioned that think you said that you've been hunting your whole life, But what was that kind of like, Um for you? Yeah, I've been hunting for as long as I can remember. It's been a huge part of my life since I was a little girl. My dad and on my mom and my dad's side of the family, everybody hunts, all the guys do anyway, And um, I was pretty much raised as the son my dad never had. Uh. Grew up with three other sisters, and I was like the definition of a tomboy. So you know my end, I didn't really start getting a little bit girlier till I was about thirteen or fourteen, So I mean I was all about everything to do with outdoors and getting dirty and muddy and when my whole childhood, and you know, those are some of my favorite memories are hunting with my dad, and you know, he was his attitude about it was great. He there was never any laps in, oh, well this is a guy's trip. Well this is the guys hanging out. You know, you can't there was never any of that. And I was always right there in the action, watching him skin deer, watching them talk about hunting, and listening to the stories from my grandpa and you know, my uncle's and it's just been a huge part of my life for as long as I can remember, and now it's virtually what my life revolves around. And my dad and I still like to hunt a lot together, you know, and he's were really really close. That's who I work with every day, and I'd say he's probably my best friend and we we have a great time together. And you know, he was he was great getting me into it and teaching me everything I know, and now I teach him things and it's it's great, that's very cool. I got a real quick question, you know, you for for Jessica. I have a daughter of my own, and for some reason, subconsciously, I find myself, you know, if my sun falls down and scrapes his knee, it's hey, get up, you know. And then if my daughter falls down and scrapes her knee, I'm like, oh, baby, are you okay? You know a little bit of a of a software. And I do that subconsciously. I don't. I don't know why. But did your dad ever, you know, while you were growing up, was your dad ever the hey get you know, deal with it, be tough, let's go. Or was was there a little softer side, um you know, like when you started gutting the deer, or or was it level ground the entire time? Or whoever, whoever has been hunting their entire life, Alex just Alexy my bad. Um No, that's a good question though, and I think there was a healthy balance of both. I think. Um. I'll be the first to admit I am not tough at all, Like I have no tolerance for pain. I'm like a huge whim, you know. So I think there was a healthy balance of you know, my dad didn't necessarily cut me any break because I was a girl. And it's still like that today. You know, I have a a pretty physically demanding job and a pretty you know job where I I don't really know how to say it, but you know, you can get hurt kind of doing what I do, working with livestock, you know, with cows and you know, bulls and things like that, you can you can get hurt. And there's never really been any time or my dad's been like, let me do that because you're a girl, if that makes sense. You know, it's always been he looks at I'm his equal, I guess, and uh, you know, don't get me wrong, there's been times where I've been hurt pretty bad and he's babied me a little bit, you know, but he's he's pretty good about, you know, telling me when I need the cowboy up and telling me no, it's okay to be upset. And you know, I've kind of think there's a fine line to ride because you know, if you're too harsh, my feelings get hurt, you know, and but if you're too soft, you know then I probably wouldn't be the person I am today. So I think there's a there's a healthy balance, and you kind of just have to find the right line to stay on. And you know, it's he looks at me as his equal, though you know it's I'm not as strong as him and I'm not as tough as him, but you know, I still work. I still work hard for him. And you know, there's a saying that we say when we're working together that don't take anything personal that we say to each other when we're working cows, because some pretty some pretty rude comments kind of out of each other's now working cow. So it's like anything you say when you're working cows doesn't count. You can't bring it up later. But oh yeah, that's yeah, So that's that. We're talking to your daughter though, you know, I think if it's a healthy line of you know, when she's needs to suck it up, tell her to suck it up when she needs to, you need to hold her and love her, hold her and love her. You know she needs that too, or just as much as the other. I agree. I mean, Dan, I have a daughter too. She just turned six, and I am in the same predicament even as a mother. She falls down sometimes and it's like it takes my breath away and I run over and I freak out in a panic. And other times she's like she's crying and I'm like, hey, come on, suck it up, tough up. We were out fishing the other day and she scraped her hand and I told her to blow her snot on the ground and get moved in and looked to me like what I was like, Yeah, that's right, we're outside up. And so the same thing to Alex said, I think it's just a healthy mix of of both attitudes. Is a a good combination to raise them with. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I feel like today more than maybe in the past. And maybe it's just because you know, I'm paying we're paying attention to it now, but I feel there's a lot of kind of buzz about it. More and more females seem to be becoming interested in getting into hunting, and both me and Daniel Dan with his wife, myself and my wife Dan with his daughter. Um. You know, I think we're all interested in how to introduce um our significant others or or whoever it might be in our lives to the hunting world and getting into this kind of stuff. And you both have kind of different stories of how you got into hunting, UM, but with the common piece being you were both females. I'm curious to hear. Is there anything that you've learned, UM from your experience getting to hunting and with those mentors, whether your dad or your friend that taught you or got you into it. Maybe, Jessica, if you want to take this first, given the fact that you were a little more of of a late onset hunter. UM, is there anything that you've learned that you could suggest to us and to others out there who want to introduce females to hunting UM, as far as how to do that, UM or anything there? Sure, UM, I would say, just to be really encouraging, be excited about it for them. Don't make them feel intimidated by any means. Uh, don't make it. Don't make the women or the girls feel like because they haven't experienced that they're not going to understand it. UM. There has been a couple of times or conversations that I've had with people even now where if I'm talking about my hunting experiences, UH, they kind of like, well, that's you. You haven't had enough experience, or you don't understand or or you can't possibly be any good at hunting because you don't have fifteen twenty years under your belt of hunting. UM. And I think that that's the wrong attitude to take. UM, especially for people who are women, you're just getting into it. They need to feel welcomed. They need to feel like you're willing to share with them your knowledge or tips. Um. I just to be encouraging, and I think is the best the best attitude to take with it. Yeah, what do you think els from the perspective of you being a you know, starting this process at a younger age. Anything you would you suggest? Yeah, outll. I mean I can completely agree with everything just said. You know, I think I think it's important to create a welcoming environment, UM for someone who's just getting into hunting, whether that you know, kind of the not making them feel stupid for asking questions. I know it is a big thing because kind of, like Jeff said, I still consider myself to be a beginning hunter, always wanting to grow and learn, and you know, asking questions is good and it can be frustrating I know, hunting with someone who's never done it or never you know, tried it. I know that it can be you know, when you're wanting to get in there and get going, it can be kind of take you back a little bit. But you know, creating an environment where it's okay to ask questions and you know, I think starting out the right way. Uh. You know. For example, I wanted to take my niece turkey hunting last spring, and um, something like it was gonna be super cold, opening more in of youth season, and she we went and she froze and she was miserable. And she was six at the time, and she was worried about going this year because she was scared of being too cold, Which that's a little you know, it's different taking an adult as compared to taking a child. But you know, maybe the first few times you go, maybe not take them in the most extreme conditions possible, you know, because that can kind of hinder maybe someone wanting to go again. I know it wouldn't mean too because like I said, I'm not I'm a whim So if I had never done something like that and went out on a miserable day, I probably wouldn't like it as much as I do now because it's you know, it's hard. It could be hard to see the bigger picture, you know. But like just like just said, you know, just because someone is just getting into it doesn't mean that they can't love it just as much as you. You know, So if you make it just a fun experience as much as you can, then you know, the more people that you can get into love hunting better. So I think it's it's great looking to take your wife or your girlfriend or your kids. You know that. It's amazing how many people, how many women that I talked to you that say, oh, yeah, I wanted to spend time with my boyfriend, so I started going, and now I'm going on my own, you know. Now you know, I'm teaching myself things and I'm teaching him things that I think that's great, you know, because I think women naturally make great hunters and great you know, just because our attendant willingness to learn and tendency to be more patient, you know, with things. So I think I think that's great. That's my favorite when wives tell me that they started going with their husbands and now they leave him at home and go on their own that's just the coolest things. Alright, real quick, before moving on, we're gonna pause briefly for word from partners at white Tail Properties. Here's our producer, Spencer Newharth. This week with white Tail Properties. We are joined by Dave Skinner, a land specialist out of southern Kentucky, and Dave is going to be telling us about what to look for when trying to make a property more affordable. There are several things, um, you know, one of the big ones, I'm going to look for something that uh, that's not producing income. If I'm looking to get the per acre price down. Um, you know, I'm gonna avoid things like tillable uh, tillable ground because that drives a price up. Anytime something produces an income is gonna drive the price up. Also, marketable timber, you've got to pay for that, you know. At the gone or the days that you can buy a piece of property to cut the timber off of and walk away with the land and some cash, it just doesn't happen anymore. Um. And you know in Kentucky, uh, we've got um areas that have been strip mined for coal, so that reclaimed cold ground frequently can sell you know, literally half of what similar acreage would sell for in the area. So reclaimed ground is is a great way to get drowned down around a thousand dollars and acre um. You know in the habitat on that stuff is phenomenal um. And like I said, it's quite quite a bit cheaper than other stuff in the area. Also, you know, maybe someone has severed the mental rights in the past. Um. Sometimes that can get the price per acre down. UM. You know, conservation these months, lack of road frontage, all those things will drive the process of acreage down. So you know that's you know, to save on the front end. That's the way you do it. If you'd like to learn more and to see the properties that Dave currently has listed for sale, visit white tail properties dot com backslash skinner that's s k I N N E R. So what do you guys think about this trend? Um? Some surveys have shown that over the last five years or whatever, one of the largest groups of new hunters is women. UM. I mean, what do you think about this horizon female participation? Why do you think it's happening? Um? I guess Alex, if you want to start, UM, you know, I think it's great that more women, like I said, are wanting to get into it, getting the edge and understanding what it's about. I know there's been a big movement for more women wanting to hunt their own food, you know, which is which I think is cool. I don't per really only eat wild game meat. You know, I raised beef for a living, so I'm a big supporter of the beef industry. But you know, I think that's a great movement that people are getting into and wanting to hunt their own food. I know, it's it's an incredible feeling to hunt something clean it, got it right there, and eat it that night. It's a it's an amazing feeling. And I know women like that. It's kind of a in my opinion, kind of like a mothering, nurturing instinct to provide for your family that was kind of unheard of until now. You know, being able to put that food on your table yourself is kind of an incredible thing. And you know, I think that because of social media and social networking, that other women are seeing other women doing it and are seeing, oh, well, if Jess can go out there and hunt, I can do it. You know, if Alex can go out there and hunt. I can do it. And you know, not only Jess and I, but anybody. You know, if you see anybody on social media, there's a lot of incredible women to look up to out there. And I think that other women are seeing that it's okay for me to go out there. You know, it's becoming more socially acceptable. And you know, if you can't find someone to go with you, you know, you can make connections through Instagram or through Facebook and meet people and find people to hunt with and share information with. And I think that's been a huge part of it. Yeah, that's a great point, that that's a It seems that they'd be a huge tool. Um. Would you add anything, Jessica, Um, I would definitely agree with everything that Alex said as far as um social media being a huge, UM catalyst for for the the rise in women in the outdoors, I mean and across the board is be not even hunting, um, I've seen it in fishing, hiking, and climbing, all sorts of I mean, just about anything. It's on social media now, so more people have more eyes on things. UM. It sparks interests all the time. UM. I think that for me at least, I connect with a lot of women who are just looking to challenge themselves. I feel that, um, the idea of learning ton and and harvesting your own food and the entire like the gamut of hunting, the whole idea, it's a it's a challenge, and that's one of the most exciting things to me to to learn how to use my bow properly, to learn how to use the tools properly, and when you finally have those moments that are successful, the whole thing comes full circle. And I think once women, um, when they see it online or they hear stories of other women doing it, or they even get a little taste of it, it just pulls them in. And I mean, let's face it, women just talk constantly to their friends. So I mean as soon as I started loving it, I reached out to find other women or talk to other women into doing it with me. So it's just like a trickle down effect. And I think it's just exploding right now, and I think it's a great thing for the outdoors, and I see the mentality changing a lot um. Where Like when I first started hunting, if I would ask questions of people it was kind of like a secret society. Nobody wanted to share any tips or information. Is very closed doors, like you don't share your hunting information, which obviously we still keep a lot of our game plans to ourselves. But there's been more acceptance to sharing stories and experiences, whether it be on social media or just in conversation in general. Like, I think more people are just open talking about it. It's a little bit more mainstream. People aren't so much afraid of judgment, and I think that that plays with the women as well. It's not as um, what's the word I'm trying to it's not as much of like controversy now for a woman to be a hunter, whereas maybe a several years ago they might have been looked upon as kind of like aggressive predator of some sorts. I think the mentality has changed a lot, and I think that it's good for for women and the outdoors. And I mean, I'm excited for my daughter. She's she's interested in it, and I can just see her developing her passion for do any things as far as hunting and fishing. So yeah, I mean, I think it's fantastic. Jump in right there, real quick, like just really quick. Like, I think that just your daughter is going to have like a really unique experience like growing up in the outdoors, having like her mother being so involved in it. Like, I think that's going to be really neat for her looking back once she's an adult, you know, looking back at she's having these experiences with her mom and other you know, a strong woman and you know, someone to look up to. So I mean, I think that's great, and I think that's going to be something really special for her. I hope it goes that way. It's either going to go that way or it's going to go to complete opposite and she might either way. Dan, what does all this stuff make you think with your daughter um in in in your process as you're going to be bringing her into the hunting world possibly, I mean, where where's your head out with all this? So for me right this, they throw this term huntress around right which I'm not gonna label you you guys as huntresses because just flipping through your Instagram pages, you guys don't meet that criteria. But social media, we we know, kind of has positives and negatives, you know, for everything, and this just isn't with women. This is for men too, where you have these group of people who are doing it for potentially different reasons. Right, I didn't see you guys, you know, taking selfies in a mirror with you know, with mountain k oops and and you know doing all this you know, selfies and stuff like that, which when I see it, kind of dilutes what you guys are trying to do. So how frustrating is it for you guys to I guess spread a positive message and at the same time it's not necessarily competing, but weed yourself out from what is already out there that is probably doly. Like if I was to talk to my daughter about this today, I would say, you don't want to be like that group of people. Um, yeah, I'll take it. Yeah, go ahead. That was a long question. I apologize. No, it's fine. Uh. I mean, I know Alex and I have had this conversation between ourselves and there is definitely a persona of that Alex and I do not wish to have. And well, I mean, well, everybody can enjoy the outdoors and use their social media channels too whatever purpose they want. I mean, I guess that's all fine. Um, it does make like what you said, it does kind of water down the like the honest part of what we're trying to do. I mean, I'm not trying to get every product under the Sun's sponsors sponsor me and YadA YadA, YadA, like I am truly loving the outdoors. I do run a photography business, so I mean I do try to promote myself as a qualified photographer. Um, but I do try to take a step back from all that stuff, like I don't need to be shooting my bow in the tiniest shirt that I own in the most um in the in the best pose possible. We'll just say it like that, use your words wisely. Yeah. I'm also trying not to get some backlash of of a particular group of people as well. I mean that everyone's welcome to do whatever they want, and if if that's how they hunt, great, That's not how I hunt. Um. So I mean, I don't know. I know Alex when I feel the same, But I also don't want to stir the pot in any way. What would you say? Um? Okay, So I just have to say it. I hate the term countress like it makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up. I just I like the way it sounds when it comes out of your mouth, it's just like I hate it. And UM, quick story just about that. UM. I was working one of the sit to boots at some show recently, I don't even remember which one it was, and a man came in the booth and asked me if I was a hunt dress and I said, no, I'm just a hunter, just the bow hunter, just like you. And he said, well, you look like a hunt dress me with your long blonde hair and pink fingernails. And I was like, well, okay, but you know, I'm just just a hunter, just like anybody else. And he refused to accept that, I guess, And it was really kind of like the first time that I was just like, you know, why don't you just keep walking away because I'm gonna say something really rude. And it was just like I said, I grew up where all the guys that I was hunting with my dad and everything I was there equal. I guess, you know, it wasn't that I was just a girl. They had to take hunting, you know, and I was hunting with them, they weren't taking me. I guess that kind of makes sense. And it's just to me it's kind of a you know, there's there's so many women out there that have done an incredible job of, you know, helping the idea of female hunters become more socially accepted, you know, kind of like just said, with less of a controversy, it's not a big deal that women hunts anymore. And there's been a huge group of women do an incredible job at that, and then, um, in my opinion, there's a pretty big group of women that just kind of knock it down, I guess, and try to I don't know if I can. Can I say the word sexualize on your podcast? You can say whatever you want, all right, Well, I kind of feel like that's what they try to do, and it just kind of makes all female hunters look bad, you know, And like you said, this same kind of thing happens with guys too. It's not just girls that do it for the wrong reasons. And you know, you know, but like just said, if that's how you want to hunt, you know, you it's is if you're out there honestly enjoying the great outdoors, then that's great and more power to you. I just hope that you know, if you're doing it you're doing it honestly and because you love it, and that's what's most important, you know, it's I know, that just feels the same way that if Instagram was gone tomorrow, I'm still going to be out playing food plots and trying to kill a deer this fall, and you know, and I think that that's something trying, trying, attempting. Yeah that, and yeah, go ahead jump in. I on the flip side of this point. Um, I mean, I do not like the term huntress. I don't think that everything that I need to hunt needs to have pink on it, that whole deal. Um. But I did have a strange experience just past um Show season. I was speaking with the girl I was explaining the new sick of Women's and I said, yeah, there's no pink. We don't need pink, we don't need all this fancy fairly girl stuff. I'm like, this is a technical gear made for hunting. And the woman I was talking to just kind of like nodded her head and she was nice and plite, and then she contacted me post show to have another conversation and she's like, you know, you can't hurt my feelings a little bit, and I'm like, oh my gosh, how did I hurt your feelings? Like I'm so sorry, And she goes, Now, I hunt just the same as you. I've been hunting my whole life. Um, I probably have more experience hunting than you. And and she she's explaining like her passion and her dry for it, and she's like, and I feel like you pigeon honed me into like this this uh huntress, like the girl with the skin tight hunting gear with hot pink nails and the hair extensions and all the products all over and the boob hanging out. And she's like, just because I might like get home from work with my makeup on and my nails painting and go hunting doesn't make me a huntress. And so I kind of took a little bit of step back um on this whole topic and realized that, like, yeah, some women are more tomboys, some women are flashy. Some women are coming home from work and trying to like set free themselves as quickly as possible and still go out and enjoy hunting. So I like, I kind of feel like, as long as you're not crossing the boundary between like what Alice said, trying to sexualize it or trying to to turn into something. It's not like hunting and hunting. If you're a true hunter, you can connect with another true hunter on it. If you are in it just for the glory or to sell something or to get the most tension. And it goes for guys or girls. Are guys and girls Like, there's plenty of guys out there in the tightest T shirt possible with their energy drings, like pulling their bows back in their living room, like gotta get my work out in it. It's the same thing, yeah, as out of it that butter sandwich. It's not so much the word huntress or the color pink. It's just it's the truth behind it, like what are you really after? And that's that is so transparent everybody can see through it. So, I mean Alex and I we do our thing. We know what we're doing as far as like, I don't know if we know what we're doing hunting, but we know why we're hunting. Yeah, that's still to be determined to elaborate on that question. Though. Let's say there's a young girl out there right now who's listening in in she's she's on social media or she's just a woman who's listening with her husband right now on a on a car ride or whatever. What are some of those things that you know, I think, you know, there's this there's this fine line of of women trying to find role models if they're completely new to hunting, and what should what should women look for, you know, in looking for those role models. So I think that when I'm looking for for inspiration or strong women and or I don't know, I'm like not going for the most popular, the most most like the most popular thing ever. I'm looking for people who are putting in hard work, are putting in the time, have facts and knowledge to back up what they're saying. Um, not necessarily like putting up a post or a blog every five minutes just to keep themselves relevant. So I would say to look for people that are doing it because they love it, because they're passionate about it, and look for information online or if you're if you're talking with people, look for substance in what they're saying. Don't just listen to uh like the top layer, like look deeper. Yeah, I I completely agree with everything just said. You know, A big, a big one for me is looking at how someone portrays themselves. I guess I don't really know how to say that, but just respects themselves. I think it's a big one because there's you know, a lot of women out there that I'm not saying they don't, but there's also some great, great role models out there of women that you know, know a lot and have a lot of good information that they're willing to share, but also aren't willing to take a tip from someone you know. And I think that just finding someone that you relate to yourself. You know, there could be a girl from Pennsylvania that's gonna relate to Jeff that you know, she's a great person to look up to in more aspects and you know than just the fact that she lives in Pennsylvania. But uh, you know, it's just like Jess said, there's so many good resources out there other than just Instagram, am you know, other than just Facebook. You know, there's great magazines, and there's great online forums and you know, podcasts, blogs, you know things like that. There's join an organization, yes, yeah, yeah, local chapters your like the Ducks Unlimited Banquets, Whitetail Unlimited Banquets, ugh d m A like Rocky Mountain Unders. Yes, Yes, there's a lot of great organizations you know that you can join and go to local banquets and things like that and meet people in your area. And I think that's honestly probably one of the best things to do because you're going to be connecting with people that live close to you who hunt the same kind of critters that you do, and you know, maybe the deer kind of work the same in that area, and you can discuss tactics and you know whatever, you can turkeyhood together. Like I think that would you know, be a great resource for someone is don't be afraid. Yeah, don't be afraid to ask questions of people. I mean, I've I see it now. The mentality is changing. People are willing to answer your questions for you. UM, talk to people who hunt, asked the guys, hey, do you have a girlfriend that hunt? Do you have any friends that want to hunt with me? Like, don't be afraid to just put yourself out there. I mean, what's the worst that can happen? I say, no, yeah, yeah, and then you just find someone cooler. Yeah. So, So speaking of this whole kind of topic of like you know, finding role models, and in these different expectations placed on female hunters and some of these different I don't know, perspectives and perceptions that we have. Um. Alex you you were recently featured in a pretty cool short film by Matthews. UM that kind of spoke to us a little bit about female hunters and exceeding expectations and stuff. Could you talk a little bit about the message of that film and then what it was like being part of that. Yeah, well that was that was something that I hold very near and dear to my heart. That was such a neat project to be able to be a part of. When Derek, for Matthews, first reached out to me, you know, he was like, would you want to maybe do this? I was like, yep, say no more. I'm in. I don't even need to know what it is. I want to be a part of it. And you know, they they interviewed myself and the other women that were involved with it about, you know, what it was like growing up as a female hunter, or what it was like getting into hunting as a female. You know, we talked about a lot of the same stuff that we've talked about here. You know, just a few minutes ago and um, you know, they really wanted to push the fact that you know, there's women out there that are doing this and they're you know, killing it, crushing it. And you know, there's a lot of women out there that you know, this is what their life revolves around, and it's you know, this is important to them and it's it's part of who they are. And I think that there was a if there is one way to show authenticity, that's what Matthews did. I think they hit the mail directly on the head, you know, because there's a lot of you know, on social media that you know, people are like, oh, well, she's just out there taking the picture her boyfriend or her husband or you know whatever. She's not doing that, you know whatever, And that's fine. You know, I have a lot of help from my dad and from my boyfriend. I'm hunting. I'm not afraid to say that, you know, I'm not always out there hanging true stands by myself. I gladly accept help. And that's that's what hunting is about. It's about doing it with the people you love and with about you know, having fun at it and doing it with people you care about. And you know, but there's also something to be said for someone who's going to get out there and put in the nitty gritty work and get something done, not because people are watching, but it's because that's just what she has to do. That's what needs to get done, and that's what's going to happen. And I think that's Matthews hit the nails directly on the head and knocked it out of the park. It was such such an empowering message. And when I watched the first cut of the film pretty soon to where they were gonna release it, you know, I was just like moved by it. I was just like, oh my gosh, like I gotta get out there, like next season coming up, you know, I was like, I gotta get back out there and started working on again. It just motivated me, and you know, and it was it was me seeing myself in that position. And I've never really thought of myself as a role model, not necessarily because I don't try to be one, you know, I do, but just because I'm just me. I'm nothing fancy, I'm just me. And when that video came out, my niece, who is now seven years old, watches it every single day, like every single day today, still he watches it and that that to me was kind of when she watched it, she calls me aunt Peaches when she calls me or watches it, and she said, Peaches, that was the coolest thing I've ever seen. I want to go hunt. And I was just like, you know, it kind of struck me in a different way, I guess, you know, because then I was like, I felt like a role model and I felt like someone important to her. And to think that, you know, someone as small town Midwest Missouri as me could be that for someone else is kind of a neat feeling. Yeah, that is pretty cool. And I think and I think both of you, both you, Jessica and Alex Um. You guys have platforms now, whether it be social media or your work with different companies as ambassadors. I think there are a lot of females, young females or whatever age that that probably looked to you now as examples Um and role models. What you kind of mentioned some of these things, Alex, but maybe you can expand a bit and then, jess I want to hear your thoughts too. But but what does that mean to you now? Or how what am I trying to stay here? I guess, how does that change your mindset or how you act or do things knowing that because you now have a platform and people look to you, Um, do you have this new responsibility? Yeah? I try to be pretty mind and full of it. Um. You know, I don't necessarily have like a strategy. I guess I don't. I don't really know for like how I do things on my social media. I'm kind of all over the place on their kind of but you know, I kind of just post what I want and you know, it's just I'm just me on there, and you know, I'm nothing fancy Halftime, I'm wearing the same peer jeans for like six days in a row, and you know, I've got cow poop on me and something else gross is happening to me probably, But that's real life, you know, And that's something real that I deal with all the time, and I try to just be as as real as I can about it. And I love Instagram stories. That's like my favorite thing in the whole world is posting all my Instagram story about what I'm doing. And most of the time it's something to do with cows, because that's like what I'm surrounded by all the time, and you know it's just I just try to keep it keep it real on there, and you know what I'm not. I think a big thing is I try. I don't try to be something I'm not. And you know this, what I've the past words I've just said in the last few seconds is more thoughts than I've put into my Instagram that I have in a long time. Like I'm trying to think what I do on there, and I just I just poked when I'm warrant, and I just try to be me and I mean whatever, I don't have a ton of followers, but you know it doesn't really matter, and I just I'm just me. Yeah. Just what are your thoughts on coming a role model to females? Kind of along the same plane as Alex, Like I don't sit in my living room and and dwell about being a role model. But I mean, when you when you think about it, I'm sure there are girls and young people and women who are looking at my profile and hopefully they're getting inspired to learn to uh, to pursue the outdoors if that's something that they're interested in. Um, But the same same things Alex, I don't I don't have any ambitions to portray something different, because as I like what I do, I like who I am, and I'm not going to go out of my way to change that. So, I mean, my Instagram page represents authentic things that I do. Whether it's because I'm a photographer or because I hunt, or because I'm a mom and a wife. Um, they are all real things that have happened. So when they get posted, I don't ever worry like, well, what if someone gets the wrong idea of me, because that's that's whatever happened, whether it was for a job or because I was hunting. Like, those are real photos. So I don't have any kind of reservations about my social media presence because I'm not I'm not trying to obtain anything unrealistic. Yeah that makes sense. Damn, I got a question for you. I want to flip this a little bit. Um. Yeah, you mean we're talking about you have a platform too, and people probably look up to you as a hunter or a person or as other different people out there. They only have nine fingers, you're probably one of the most well known nine fingered people out there. They might look up to you and you might bitch, how do you how do you think about this because I think it's this is an interesting topic because I think all of us, in one way or another, there may or there may be people who look up to us. Um. Maybe it's a kids, or maybe it's someone with a platform like you and the other hunters look up to it. But how do you handle that responsibility? What do you think about there? Man? I tell you what, I think the only way to truly be successful in life in general is to be who you are because the moment that you become fake, people will call you out and you will lose your credibility. So I just I am one of the like I'm rough around the edges, you know me. Um, I say what I think and I I'm just like like the ladies said, I'm just being me. Man, I'm not trying to be something different and I'm not trying to you know, I don't pull this facade. That could be a hit song right now you put that together, Jess, But you know what I mean, Like, I'm dude, this industry has enough sellouts where you know, people see that, and once they see it, they may still follow you, but not necessarily follow you, but they don't absorb what you're really trying to say so at that point your voice becomes lost in a sea of other d bags. And after you know, after and you get one, you get one chance at it, and after that you're done. You're just like the rest of them. And you know, be genuine and be yourself. And and I'm not trying to be a role model, per se. I'm just trying to share my experiences with other people who are really just like me, you know, from a nine finger Chronicles standpoint. Dude, I work, I'm a father, I'm a husband. I work forty plus hours a week. I work another however many hours a week during this podcast. I grind, just like the rest of the people out there. And I want to, you know, there when when hunting season comes, I want to make sure that all the blood, sweat, and tears that I've put in turns to success, no matter no matter if that's you know, hanging tree stands in a hundred degree heat, or checking trail cameras several times, or whatever it is. I I just wanna it all comes down to passion. I want to express my passion for the animals that I hunt and outdoors in general. Yeah, and I think there's a moral to the story here with with everyone, it's the importance of authenticity, and I think it's just being you being authentic, UM. And I think that you know whether you want to be a role model or not. If if you you anything that's out there to the world, you inevitably become one. And I think being true to yourself will UM will allow you to to do that in the best possible way. And I think that. I think there's a lot of people on this podcast right now they're doing this, so I'm humbled to be here chatting with the three of you, so I want to I want to shift. I want to shift back a little bit to the two of you, Jess and Alex, because you worked on a pretty cool project here over the past couple of years that we've talked a little bit about on the podcast, and that has been UM your work with Sica, our great partner who launched their women's line of gear. And I know that both of you have been involved in that process, both some of the early stages, the design work and ideas there, as well as actually testing it. UM. I'd love to hear about what that was like, and we've heard just just a little bit from you and some of our sick of stories in the past. But UM, for those that haven't heard, I'd still like to hear your perspective on this. Maybe, Jess, can you kick us off tell us a little bit about what that experience is like for you. UM. Well, it started several years ago. UM. Sica had invited myself and Alex and some other women UM to the office where they just sat us down and we had several brainstorming sessions. They asked about our experiences and our ones and our needs, UM what wasn't being met as far as our CAMEO, and we overtime came up with the system that you see say UM and went through a lot of UM, Like I said, brainstorming sessions, a lot of testing UM, several several prototypes UM UM. Alex and I and some other women UM like Amanda Caldwell had all tested the white tail pieces and the big game pieces before anybody even knew about this line UM. And then to see it come come through to be reality, it has been really amazing. I mean, some of the things that we talked about in that room with that white board, we now are using the field, so UM, it's been real honor, and it's it's really dissatisfied so many um things that we're missing for female hunting. That's awesome. What about you else? Yeah, I mean I feel like this is what my response has been every time. But everything that Jess just said pretty much, and you know, she she said it exactly right. You know, it was it was a super fun process and it was something that I was so proud to be involved with. And you know, right off the bat, I was like, oh my gosh, Alex, what have you done? Like you are going to help sit kill with this? Like you must have done something right, Like I was like super pumped. You know. That's that's how Jess and I met, you know, a couple of years ago, and we had a blast out there and it was so much fun creating it and you know, just kind of giving ideas and our feedback and now seeing the line come up and you know, be such a hit. It's really rewarding to be a part of that, and it's really cool and it's it's been neat. I've been fortunate enough to go to several trade shows this year and stand in the sit kabooth and talk to people about not just the women's line, but all sit Because lines. And it's been really neat to see this when you tell a woman about Sitka's new women's line, to see like the sense of relief, I guess that she expresses like, oh, finally sick because making a women's flight, you know, because Sitka is known for having incredible gear, you know that really aids and hunting, and you know, and women are just like relieved almost that there's finally going to be pants that's fit. Finally we don't have to deal with the weird crotch that's on all men's pants and you know, up to teut literally, don't even get me started like it like it's it's been it's been really neat, and you know, and to have even just the tiniest little involvement and that has been awesome. And you know, it's allowed me to meet people like Jeff and make other friends that you know, I consider some of my best friends now. And it's it's been awesome. When you guys were in that room discussing, you know, you know, you guys were all voicing your opinion about, you know, what a garment should have from a woman's standpoint. Um with women, I feel having such a variety of body types compared to men. How what was the discussion in that room, like on that specific topic. Well, that's kind of funny because when you put Alex and I next door another, I am very short and Alex is a lot taller than I am, but we wear relatively the same size. So when we were coming up with UM. When I was discussing sizing with with SIKA, it was like, Okay, well that's great if that's what the measurement is for a medium or small, but what are you gonna do for all the sizes between small and medium? And the guys kind of looked at me like, we didn't what do you mean? I mean they didn't understand that between size A and size B is size A through Z again, and uh. We we really put a lot of time into discussing this with them because we knew that if we didn't, if SIKA didn't put out what women needed, they were going to get the biggest backlash. Like ever, like they I don't think they anticipated how critical women were going to be. So we let them in on that early and they did a really good job of planning for UM. Four ways stretched in the garment. There's a lot of gusting and adjustments in the garments that aren't available in the guy's line because it's not needed. Um, there's zippers and new places and elastic in different places. The bids have more adjustability, the jackets have different draw strings, and the guys so I mean there was it was aligned from the like yeah, completely redesigned, and like the sizing on all of the gear is like incredible. The fit of it is awesome, and you know, wearing gear that actually fits is like it's like change my whole life. It's it's awesome. And you know, like just said, there is no small, medium large when it comes to women's clothing, Like naturally, we can't make it that not just once one size fits all answer. And you know, once that kind of realize that, they were like, Okay, well this is just what we have to do, and they did it and they crushed it. I mean, I don't I don't think they could get any more flexible in the way they design. They designed these clues to fit then they have. I mean, it's just it's pretty incredible. That's uh, that's something I would have never known, that's for sure. When it comes all that sizing stuff in too, and zippers and pockets. You should have heard the conversation on where we're gonna put pockets. Oh yeah, it was a whole another deal. Um, well, every girl brings different things with her to the field. I don't know how it did those guys, but I have a certain place I like to put if I have my cell phone or my range finder might not necessarily go around my neck and a range finder pocket. It's just kind of like how I feel that day. So I wanted to make sure that for me, I had ample pocket space in all of places KA place pockets and I a lot of girls. Yeah, and you had to be careful because you couldn't put too many pockets that you know, women already have a little bit more bulk on their chest than a guys do a guy dad, So you know you had to be careful putting pockets over the chest area, you know, because then I could you know, interrupt your draw cycle when you're going your bow and you know, pocket placement over the hips, well hips, you know, women's hips are different. It was just like it was got creative, yeah, and it's awesome. Like the turnout was like like I put it on, and I'm just like, Yep, this is it. Let's go, Like, I'm ready to go. I think that you put pants on. I'm like we we had put prototype pants on and probably sat five hundred times in a row just to make sure that when we put our hands in the pockets it felt good. Yep, so good. Good to go. Well, now, speaking of of the testing process, I think that this was during the testing process. Maybe it was after. But Jessica, your your first prong horn hunt that you went on with Amanda last year. Was that part of the testing process or was that just a hunt together. I'd love to hear about that hunt, because it sounds like that was pretty cool. Um. It was a plan that Amanda and I had cooked up on our own, and it just kind of coincided with the field testing for the Women's Big Game pieces. When we did to hunt, the prototypes were available in the open country pattern, which obviously now they are for the first year, only available in the subalpine for Women's Big Game. So the photos that you see of me, I am wearing the Women's Big Game pieces just in the open country pattern. Um, but we got to test the pieces out on the prairies of Montana, and obviously I was successful. It was an incredible hunt. Um, mainly due to Amanda's know how I mean, she's an incredible hunter and I look up to her so much. She's taught me so so much about this hunting in general. She's a great person to be around and she's one of my dearest friends now. And then also coinciding with that, we also tested the Matthew's Avail before it had debuted. So I I'm not gonna say I'm ninety nine or percent sure, but I'm ninety percent sure. I got the first harvest with the women's avail from Matthews, so that was pretty exciting. Who it's pretty sweet. So you so this was a bow kill on Prong Horn. What was that like? Because I feel like that's one of the toughest things to pull off. Was it a water hole hunt or spot and stalk or what? No, we stopped the whole time. We didn't sit over any water, um, which I knew I had a time that that was the plan and that's what I wanted to do. Um. What I wasn't prepared for was how much more athletic Amanda is than I am. So she was she was just going, going, going, and which was fantastic because I got a great experience. But um, there were some times where I just looked at her and said, I need to take a break for a second. Um, but we we had so much fun, and we were probably elbow crawling across vast open spaces for the majority of the time. Um we as you know, you can't just like walk up to a pronghorn, so we would spot them and just kind of make our way through drainages and tall grass, literally dragging ourselves on our stommit with like my bow resting on the back of my back for hours. My elbows were robbed by the end of this hunt. And uh, but it was so worth it, and we had so much fun. It was It's probably one of the most memorable hunting experiences I had ever been on. It was my first time hunting out west, my first time hunting with Amanda, and uh, it was I mean it was spectacular. Yeah, it looked like at the photos were pretty pretty incredible. And there there's actually two places you can hear about this. You guy, you just had the article published in Peterson's Bow Hunting. I saw about that hunt which is pretty so that that article um speaks more to uh, the process, the gear that we used, the terrain. Um, it's more of a technical article. And also in the Matthew's Annual for this year, is um a different take on the story, more of the experience with Amanda and a little bit more of girls right up? Um, But both are it's the same story, the same hunt. And you should read them books because then you get books takes. Yeah. And then there's also a blog post on matthews website. Is that the same one that's in the and the annual? Yeah? Cool. I'll make sure to link to that if anyone wants to check that out or see the photos and all that good stuff. Um. And also speaking of that kind of stuff links, I'll also be sharing that film that we were talking about that Alex was in two, so look for that. UM. So we are coming up on time and we need to wrap this up, so I guess before we do that, um, Dan, do you have any final thoughts or questions for Jess or Alex. Well, I know it's it's very easy for you know, you know, for people to take it a route like what we talked about earlier, and um, I honestly stay away from UM. I stay away from social media for the most part. Other than what I'm doing on my end, I don't I don't find myself flipping through stuff. So but I must say that I'm happy with what I see and I'm definitely going to be showing my daughter your guys stuff. So uh, really, all I have to say final thoughts Alex for you on anything we've talked about here today or anything you want to leave our listeners with. UM. I'm trying to think of something like deep and insightful, but I don't really know that I have anything other than just like you know, if you're getting into hunting, welcome and you know, keep at it. It's not easy, but you know you can do it and it can be done, and it's fun if you let it be and you know it's this is a lot of fun. And thanks for having me, I guess, Jessica. UM. Definitely, if there's a spark of interest there, pursue it. UM, try hard, do yourself. Who cares what other people say? Because I hear it every day. There's plenty of people who want to disagree with you, who care, do what you love, be honest, and uh, go get some women's sick of gear. Speaking of don't let yourself up to sail. Go out with the best gear and you'll have way more fun there you go, Speaking of gears sort of. I do have one final question that I've forgot and I wanted to ask you, Jessica. You are a professional photographer and a lot of people these days are trying to take better photos of their outdoor activities, whether it be a shot with a deer they just killed or something to do in the field. Do you have any quick tips for listeners as far as taking better pictures? Um? In my opinion, respect the animal, clean up the animal. Um. If you're gonna pose with it, pose respectfully with it. Have some ethics when you take the photography. Uh, definitely. You're gonna want to try and have the light in front of you if at nighttime, bring a light. Uh, definitely. Just my my biggest advice is just have respect with the way you're doing it. If you are disrespectful, it's going to come off that way, no matter how great damages. Solid advice. Where can people go, Jessica if they want to see what you're doing with your business or on social media? Or anything like that. UM My business de Lorenzo Photography. You can go to de Lorenzo photo dot com. Um. My Instagram is just glow seven um, and I have Twitter and Facebook as well. Cool and Alex, what about you? Um if anybody wants to follow me on Instagram, my name is Alex Templeton Underscore and I also have a Facebook as well. I don't really do quite as much on there. I'm pretty active on Instagram. So come look at some pictures of cows if you'd like. Very good. All right, Well, thank you Jessica, Thank you. Alex. Has been a lot of fun. I think it's, um, it's unique perspective that we need. Um, I don't. We don't get an opportunity to speak to terrific female role models and hunters like you enough. And I'm really glad that we're able to to kind of share your perspectives. So thanks so much for being here. Yeah, absolutely, and there you go. Another episode is in the books and a few quick updates. I wanted to give everyone who has left us a rating or review on iTunes a big thank you. We had a bunch of new reviews lately and I really really appreciate that, and speaking of thanks, I want to give a big shout out to our partners who continue to make this podcast possible. So big thanks to Sick of Gear Yetie Cooler's Matthew's Archery may have an Optics White Talents to North America, Trophy Ridge and hunt Terra Maps. And finally, thank you all for listening. I appreciate each and every one of you. I hope you're spring Turkey hunts or habitat projects have been going well, and I hope you'll stay Wire to Hunt

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