00:00:02 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm your host, Mark Kenyon. In this is episode number eight. Today we're gonna be talking about tree stands, tree stand strategy, tree stand placement, trees stands, set up, our favorite models of tree stands, and much much more so. Stick around, grab a cold beverage and enjoy. All Right, good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, and thanks for joining us here on the Wire to Hunt podcast. Along with me, today is the nine Fingered Wonder from Iowa, my trustee co host Dan Johnson. How's life trade these days? But well a lot better after that introduction. I didn't I'm looking at the notes right now and I did not see that, and I'm just like, oh, well, he's pretty good at ad lib. And then I see it's in the notes, and well, don't go tell all my secrets. Nine fingered wonder. It sounds like I'm some superhero sidekick. Well I like to think that you are, so at least a superhero. Maybe not the sidekick, You're you're superhero on your own death, but yeah. I I'm doing pretty good over here too. It's kind of credit outside. It's raining and in such around here, but it's warm, so I can't complain too much. But what's what's the world looked like outside your door? Well, we got rain the past three days. Uh, so I'm gonna have to mow my yard again for the third time in about oh it feels like ten days, so I gotta do that. I've been I've been doing some yard work. Um, I'm getting my trail camera's ready, kind of going through one night testament, making sure they work being a dad and a husband and full time job and all that other bs that no one really cares about. It sounds like you got a lot in new plate. That's right, That's right. Yeah, yeah, I like. I like the mention of trail cameras tho. I' getting pretty pumped about that too. I actually set up a camera on this past weekend down in Ohio, So I'm excited to head back down there and probably a month month and a half and see what's starting to pop up there. Um, And I think in probably a couple of weeks, we should do a full episode all about trail cameras because that's something I know that, um, that we're excited about, and I'm sure our listeners are too. Um. But the one other exciting thing for me was that this past weekend while I was there in Ohio. Not to jump too far down the turkey road, but I did have a pretty darn good weekend of turkey hunting again. UM. I had my first double me and Josh, Me and Buddy. Josh shot two big old gobblers on the count of three at the same time. So that was pretty sweet. I was. I did that last year with my wife. We had a She shot the tom stuck around and I shot the one that stuck around. That's awesome. I've always seen it on TV, you know, like we were talking about during that one turkey episode, UM, but it's never actually happened for me. But worked out really well, and it was It was really cool because Josh has never killed the turkey before, so this is his first turkey and my second of the year, and just it worked out really well. It was cool. They were gobbling off the roost and they came down one the other way, so we're kind of feeling a little bummed about it, but I ended up getting a couple of hens talking near me maybe an hour after when it was actually two hours after after daylight, and I just started getting aggressive with the hens. I thought, My thought was that they must be hend up, the gobblers must be with the hens, but they just weren't talking. So I just started, you know, getting kind of nasty with the hens, and it brought two hens in and right behind him two big old gobblers. Though. That was pretty sweet. Yeah, cool, But but we did a bunch of work down there outside of that, and um, you know that a big part of that prep that we were doing down there, other than turkey hunting, was related to tree stand related projects, and that's what I really wanted to talk about today. You know, while we're down there, we scouted out new stand locations, we adjusted a setup, we put up a new tree stand, and then we actually decided on four more locations we're gonna be hanging stands over the coming months. So, you know, with all that fresh on my mind, I thought we could spend our time, you know, today discussing tree stands, setups and and everything that goes into that strategy and something we could probably talk about for four hours, but we'll try to keep this to a little less than that. Um, But that said, on a scale of one to ten, Dan, how much do you like setting up tree stands, Well, it's that's a very that's a variable for me because when it's ninety degrees out and you've procrastinated so long, it's August and it's human and it's a hundred degrees out, I hate setting tree stands. It's a one, but if fits a cool day and I don't have a lot of trimming to do, or you know, I'm setting one up on a field uh field edge, I would say maybe uh an eight, just because it's I mean, they're it's never fun, but it's the excitement. I guess there's a little bit of an excitement saying I cannot wait to hunt this stand. Yeah, that's true. I can definitely relate to that. I I fall into the same camp as you. That were more times than I'd like to admit. I end up prascinating and putting it off too far. And just like you said, it's usually super hot day, I'm sweat egg got mosquitoes everywhere, I'm covered in poison ivy probably since that happens to me every other weekend. It seems like and it's kind of miserable, But as much as it can be a pain at times, it's, like you said, it's really important and it's it's exciting because you never know what could happen at that location, you know, down the road. So I thought, you know, as we kick things here off, do we kind of talk about one of the most important aspects of traced and placement, and that is, you know, how we're looking at tree stand placement and our strategies around them at different times of the year. So I'm curious Dan, you know, I certainly have a lot I could say on this topic, and I've got a lot of different thoughts about how I think about tree stands and timing. But I'm curious for you know, do you time your hunts and tree stands setups for certain times of the year or are you just hanging stands on good sign and hunting them at any time, you know, without maybe a premeditated plan. Man, I wish, I wish I had a strategy I could tell you, But typically every every season I start off with this game plan like, hey, I have these four or five stands trimmed out whatever, uh, and then from that point, i start working my trail cameras and I'm looking for where the activity is. Okay, So let's say I got a buck coming to um, a shooter buck coming to a field edge or coming by a trail camera, but it's after dark or it's right at dark. I'm gonna hunt inside of that to where he might be coming through at uh I don't know at a at a in daylight hours, okay, but if he's if he's coming later in the season, let's say towards the the rut, the pre rut, the late November, earlier, the early November, late October, where these bucks start showing up in daylight hours, I'm hunting closer to the field edges, and then as time goes on, I'll work my way in depending on what my trail cameras show. Right, are you putting those cameras pretty close to your stand setups? Then some of them are a lot of them are in pinch points, and I'll move a lot of them depending on where the sign is. Uh So, let's say I find a scrape that's getting worked and uh so I'll put it over there. And one thing I've noticed over the years that these bucks are making big circles or they're running some kind of circuit every day, and based on the wind direction is the way they have roach of this circuit. And they want to make sure they're hitting the sign where the does are at and hitting those betting areas when they're when they're going starting to search out for doze and based on what my trail cameras showing is where I is, where I set up I had. And here's here's an example. I have a I have a property where there's a creek system that runs through it. And along this creek systems are the betting areas, and then there's some two tracks and some let's say some old farm roads that these deer travel. It's like a big circle around these field edges. It's and their sign throughout the entire year there even right now, there's going to be an active an active scrape somewhere in there. And I'll just sit there and as they make their I read my trail cameras and as they make their their their little loop for the day, I hope I run into one. That's that's early season. Of course, when they start a search searching for those right right, That's interesting how you're using those trail cameras to really determine how you're moving your stands. And you know, something that I wanted to dive in a little bit later about was the fact that you do, at least I think you do a lot of run and gun hunting where you're studying with a portable tree stand, hunting it once, then moving somewhere else. So we'll dive into that a little bit later, um, because I think that's something really interesting and something I've done to a degree, but probably you more so than me. Um. But I'll take a stab of the question I just asked you to. And you know, for anyone that knows me, they they might laugh at this because they know that I am super detail and like plan oriented. So I've got a pretty strict kind of plan in place about how I time my hunts in certain tree stands. And then I also am setting up stands specifically for certain times of the year, even certain properties for certain times of the year. Um. So what I'll take a look at is there'll be certain core areas of a property that I'm hunting, or properties by themselves where I know I've got an incredible chance at encountering a mature buck in those areas during that late October to November time period of the pre rut and rut. And so what I try to do is I try to minimize any pressure I put on those areas at all until that time frame. So I will completely section off these areas of the property and I will not hunt them at all until later in the year. So what that means is that I need to have special setups just for the earliest season where I think I can still have a chance at success while not messing anything up for those core areas that I plan on hunting in November. UM. So in the early season, what I'm doing is I'm trying to set my stands for evening hunts. Another thing I do in the early part of the year October into I guess early October into maybe the October somewhere on there. I won't hunt any mornings again because I think the for success in the morning are relatively low. Um but the risk of bumping deer going into a stand is pretty high, so I rather avoid that risk and just focus on evening hunts. So I'm looking at just set up near food sources during those first couple of weeks in October UM. So I have a number of stands set up for those first three weeks, either right on a food source or just back from one in a staging area. UM. And of course it comes down to each year, I need to try to figure out what those prime food sources are going to be at that time of year. So whether that's acorns or food plot or you know, an agricultural crop that it's going to be popular at that time with a local deer. I'm trying to figure all that out right now so that I can have stands moved around to be in that right spot to to intercept a deer that's moving from a betting area to that food source. UM. But then there's there's so much more that goes into it that we could dive into. You know. When I'm setting these stands, I'm not only trying to be you know, near a food source that's going to be you know, actively used, but then I also need to be somewhere where I can get into it without bumping deer out of those betting areas that are nearby. And then I also need to be able to get out of that tree stand without bumping the deer that are feeding you know, in the evening. There's a whole lot that goes into it. Um. But you know, in the early season, that's sort of my framework and the way I look at things. And then as I move into later October or early November, and then I've got a handful of stand locations already set up, you know, hopefully they'll be set up or or are already set up now um or later this summer so that I can come into those spots, you know, the last couple of days of October or early November hunt him for the first time. And those are the spots where I'm really expecting to see something good happening during that rut time frame. So you know, a lot of my strategy, you know, for putting stands up in my in my stand placement revolves around this timing. And you know what I deem as early seasons safe hunts. And then you know, when I go you know all gangbusters during the runt and then I have you know, lots of times the early season stands are the same ones that I turn to in the late season, you know, when deer focused on food sources again. So you know, from a from a seasonal strategy at a high level. That's kind of what um, that's what kind of what I do and the high level way that I think through it. Let me let me tell you a little something I've learned in the past two years, because you said that, UM, morning hunts typically have a lower success rate for you. UM, so I have you know, like we like we say we always try to observe and make our next move based on what we observe or um educate us as hunters. Now, I have seen really good movement in morning's early season. Okay, So, because typically what happens is a person will hunt a field edge or a food source and wait till dark and then right at that magic hour, the dear start to trickle out. Because you know, I don't know about you, but I don't have you know, we don't have that Lee Lakowski property where the deer conditioned to to us and we and have all that. You know, they're they're feeding out in the middle of the day. We just don't have that. So for us, deer coming out right at last light to these food sources and then you hope you get a crack at it at them. Then So what I've done. Is I have bumped away from the food source and they have hunted like a staging area or a transition area before they come to those food sources. I will hunt it that night. I'll leave all my stuff in the in the tree, and I'll come back the next morning. And any deer that makes it by me and comes back to the bedding area, I'm gonna I'm cutting them off. So let's say they get a late start heading back to bed, I'm going to have a decent chance of seeing them coming back to bed because I'm not on the food store for blowing that food source out in the mornings. Yeah. No, I can totally understand. I can understand that logic. Um. I guess for me on my set of things, what I've just always found or believe when I've heard and seen is that so often in those first couple of weeks of October, those bucks are coming back to bed before daylight. So it's like when I'm heading into my tree standard you know, five in the morning, that's when those deer already heading back from their food sources. So I think, you know, if you can catch if those deer heading back late, like you said, that's perfect Um, I'm just so dang risk averse at that time of year that I hate the idea of possibly bumping a deer. You know, when I'm heading even if I'm not coming near your food source. This is when I'm you know, coming in from the back door. Um. But if they're heading into the betting area and I'm moving through the timber to get in the back side of a food source near that betting area, if i'm you know, if they're not coming back late, we're going to be intercepting each other. So it's a it's a risk reward thing I've you know, this last year was the first year I decided to try, um, you know, sacrificing those morning hunts because I wanted to see if I could, you know, get a big return in the evenings by you know, kind of the less is more strategy. And it worked too degree for me. But you know, it's not to say that I can't work other ways. So we'll see what I learned as we go. Yeah, And it's a thing. And the thing about it is, I'm not doing it on some of my good spots. I'm not taking that early season tactic that I just mentioned to some of those better um stands stands. I'm doing this on places that I can access, real easy, park on a field edge, walk down a draw, get to my spot, and it's real simple access. I'm not tramping through the woods early season, you know, and close to a betting area. It's just something I've something I've observed for and it's it's not for all my properties. It's for to to stand placements in particular. Actually, so um, it's just something if and it's typically what I'm trying to kill a doe. Interesting speaking of you know how you you mentioned as two specific spots that work well for that type of strategy. I'd be curious to hear taking you know, moving forward couple of weeks into the season. You know when it comes to that pre rut or rut timeframe. Um, you know, assuming you don't have any trail camera evidence that tells you what to do, where are you setting up you know, the first week of November. Is there a certain type of generic area that you're looking for or do you just kind of see what the sign tells you? Yeah? I have Okay, so remember when we talked to Dan Vault all those weeks ago. I have I have observation stands, So I'll pop into an observation stand and watch and then make my moves in. Make my move in, so you know, just just imagine a giant circle and in the center of that circle is a known betting area or um a hot zone so to speak. So I'll move my way in closer and closer as we get closer to the rut um. Or I'll make my move in when I see that there is sign like a heavy heavy sign, or my trail cameras are talking to me when you say, hey, sign, what what does heavy sign constitute for you? The heavy sign would be um scrapes, open scrapes that tip that, let's say, if I'm checking at and typically I have trail cameras over them. So it's kind of a combination of these scrapes that are getting hit on a daily basis by mature, by the by my target bucks. Because typically going into the season, I already have my hit list put together of bucks that I'm going to shoot or I'm gonna pass if I run into them. So uh as, if some of those shooters start showing up on this sign close to daylight hours, I'm I'm gonna be hunting that area. Yeah, definitely, I think something you mentioned brings up a point that's worth touching on I think as well, and that's scrape hunting in general. You know, I think there's been a lot of things said about hunting scrapes, you know, back in the nineties, you know, from what I heard and whatever read when I was a little kid, scrape hunting was really popular. And then you know, recently people have talked a lot about the fact that Reese are just showing that most scrape visits are happening in the dark. Um, But it still seems that there can be a sweet spot when being on those scrapes can you know, still pay off, And like you said, if you have a camera on it, you can figure out those time frames and be there to to you know, make your move. I had a situation is past fall where I really think I missed an opportunity, um, and it was around this time frame of between October and October, and from things I've heard from other people and from what I've personally seem it just seems to be like a sweet spot for when mature bucks seemed to be starting to visit these scrapes heavily. And from a lot of different things. I've heard other people have been seeing similar things to what I have. And what I had is a trail camera's head up set up on a scrape and it was starting to get hit really hard on like October. Um, I had a couple of trail cameras in the surrounding area and I started picking up a good amount of movement, and I began to hunt a couple of spots deeper in my property right around that time frame, and I passed this scrape on the way to get to one these different locations. Well, the first time I passed that scrape, it was probably I don't know, three or four o'clock in the afternoon, and I bumped a single deer off that scrape and I could just see it bounding away and it sounded and just looked like a big, heavy deer. So I was kind of like credit, I spooked something, but I kept going, went and hunted. Um you know wherever I was going that day. Three days later, I think it was I had to go. I wanted to head back to the same general area, and I thought the conditions were right to make the plunge, so I did again, and in the back of my head, I'm thinking, man, I gotta be careful to avoid that scrape area. Um, just because it's getting hit hard. Who knows this is on the edge of a standing cornfield, So I think the deer were pretty comfortable moving in that area, even during daylight. Well, I went about five or six rows deep into the corn and was walking down that edge. I should have really avoided it, but I was lazy, I guess, and I'm walking along the edge. I get to the same spot and crash, crash, crash. A single deer goes bounding off. Well, I go and check that trail camera, and I had one of my top hitless bucks, um, a buck I call six shooter, which I ended up killing. I end up killing, as you know, in just in December, and end up getting him. But he was visiting that trail camera or visiting that scrape in the middle of the daylight. In the three day timeframe. He visited that darn or that darn scrape four different times in the daylight. And you know, if I had check that trail camera earlier, or if I had you know, trusted my instincts, you know, when I happened, I was like, man, I think that's one of the big boys. For some reason, I just had a hunch. If I would have moved in there right away and hunted in the next couple of days, you know, I might have gotten a shot. He came in there at five o'clock one day. The next day, he was in there at noon, UM, and I think what he was doing he must have been betting pretty close to there. There's a little finger of timber that's stuck out right there into the standing corn, and I think he was betting off that point and visiting the scrape every once in a while just to see what was moving through. And that was a kind of a hunch I had, and I didn't act on it, but in retrospect I should have. But I don't know. Have you seen anything similar to that during that time frame for scrape hunting before before? Before um? Let me go to that question. I'm gonna ask you a question. How often do you hunt with your gut? Like do you typically do you typically say, Okay, well, I have a tree stand set up here. I put a lot of work into it into the um this spring and summer, and this is where I've had historically good luck. How apt you are to go with your gut and go just man, I really need to I really need to be here right now. Yeah. I should go with my gut more often. Maybe, Um, but I'm such a planner and like a strategicy guy that I planned the stuff out ahead of time, and I almost feel like you have a plan, you know what you're doing, stick to the plan, and eventually good things will happen. Sometimes I adjust, and I'm getting more and more in tune with that instinct. I think that's something that comes to time and experience. Um. You know, two years ago it was a perfect example of when I just had this gut instinct and I and I went with it and it paid off and I killed a buck when I was there in Iowa a couple of years back. Um, it just just had a thing where I felt like I had to go for it. Or this past year, Um, November eleven and November I saw another one of my hit list bucks that was calling leaner, really big, nice, hundred forty class Michigan buck. I saw him come in and out of this betting area in a swamp one morning and then the following evening, and I just knew that this was a major dough betting area, and I'd also seen six shooters there earlier in November, but I didn't have any stands set up there. Um, I had all these other stands I'd set up and I was hunting them, and it was you know, it's easy to go to the stand that you have set up, and it's easy to get out of there, and so it was kind of reluctant to go and try to hang a stand. But it was November. I think, you know, on the fifteen, our gun season opens here and kind of all hell break slow. So November fourteen is kind of that last best chance. And you know, that night before I was like, shoot, you know, I've I've seen him come in and out of there a couple of times. I know there's dough betting area there. It's somewhere I haven't hunted at all. I have to go for it. And so I kind of went with my gut there and I actually woke up, I got out there and hung a tree stand at three in the morning, went in there and climbed up on an edge and got all set up, and I thought I was, you know, set up there from three third in the morning until the next night, and uh, the gut instinct didn't end up paying off. I didn't end up seeing him, but it was one of those moves where it just felt so right. I was like, I'm going to be aggressive. This is what my instincts are telling me. This is good and I went for it, and I'm glad I did, even though it didn't pay off. I think, you know, there's times when you need to go for it. And I think it comes down to just developing and fine tuning that that gut instinct. And I'm sure from what I from what I think, I think you're probably better with that than me. Well, I think I don't know. It's kind of that would that would make us start judging each other as hunters, And I don't think it has anything to do with that. I think it's just, man, I can I walk into the timber and I'll walk to where I think that the stand is. Now here's my problem. I have a problem of overthinking scenarios. Okay, so I'll go with my gut. But then once I make that decision of where I need to end up, I'll sit there and I'll look at trees and I'll just go maybe that one or maybe that one or maybe that one. So I'll I'll pull the trigger, go with my gut, but not pull the second trigger, if that makes any sense, to go with the right tree. I mean, I've been set up, completely set up, and I mean camera arm, camera up, got up there, settled down and saw a different angle from when from where my tree stand was up to. We're all back down, moved twenty yards and set up again. And you know, setting up on a run and gun then that's not that's not easy, especially when you got camera equipment. Heck, no, that's a royal pain in the butt, right, Um, Well, let's let's dive into something you just mentioned. You're looking for the right tree. So what do you look for in a good tree when you're trying to set up a stand? Just the straightest one? Really? No, I'm just no. I'll tell you what, man, you should see some of the trees I have sat in before, completely ridiculous. I don't care how big it is, I don't care what the angle is. I will find a way to get my lone wolf in that tree stand or in that tree and and and make it work, even if I have to stand up the entire night or if I you know, have you know that's what safety harnesses are for for for stupid people, I guess. But but but I will go to the to the location that that I think is the best, and I will pick out the best possible tree that If that tree is not straight, I'll make you gotta make it work. I mean, I've I've had it to where I have wedged my platform of my tree stand down in some kind of why or and strapped strapped it in with a ratchet strap and just made it as solid as possible, and uh and and and and made it work. Now, when you say the best possible tree, do you mean the best possible tree for getting a shot? So based on okay, this is where I think the sign is. Therefore that tree right there isn't the best position to get a shot opportunity. Is that what you mean? Or are you saying best tree based on other factors? No, that's the it's the it's for the kale man. It's the best possible shot period um. And with that said, there's always an exception to the rule. Now, I'll set up in the best possible tree, all right, So I typically bring some kind of pole, salt or some trimming equipment into the timber with me and to kind of a a couple of shooting lanes. You know, if this is a pure running gun and I've done no prep work for that tree, you know, I'm gonna cut a couple of shooting lanes, something real small, real narrow, so that where I come in where I think these deer are gonna come, I'll have a shot opportunity. It's not gonna be forty I'm not trimming forty yard lanes all the way out. But I'll sit and I'll say, Okay, he could come from here, he could come from here, he could come from here, and I'll I'll trim those those what I think are the highest percentage areas shooting lanes. And uh and then at that point when you're all set up and those lanes are shoot it's just kind of hope and pray type scenario. Yeah, yeah, I hear you, and I think you know, there's one of the thing that I when I'm going through that process, a lot of it is like you just I'm looking for the best possible location for the shot. But then the other thing I think about and that I've encountered and I've experienced. This is is sometimes when I try to set up in that perfect tree for the shot, if I don't think about my cover in the tree and how the tree is gonna, you know, help conceal me, I almost hurt myself more than I helped myself, because I've had times where I thought, this is the tree I have to be in to get a shot, but that tree was a telephone pole when they'll cover at all, and when a deer did come through for a shot, I stuck out like a sore thumb. So I constantly am struggling with this balancing act of, you know, finding a tree that's in the right spot that gives me a shot, but also has enough cover in it too, you know, to conceal me and allow me to get away with what I need to do to get that shot. So I think that's a juggling act that probably everyone has to deal with, but I think it's something that's worth thinking about. Um. And then there's other guys. I've got a buddy who is obsessed with the type of tree when he wants to set a tree stand. Like this guy absolutely loves oak trees. He does whenever we're out there, we're out shed hunting this year, and when he sees a white oak tree, he goes up and he'll hug it. He's like, that's a tree to put a tree stand in all sorts of branches and leaves. He loves it. He loves having that good cover. And for good reason. You know, you can get away with a lot more. And and you know if if you if you get a deer in front of you, but you can't move, what's the point? So right, I'm typically and I see you got a note here again. Uh, But I always have my stand if I think the deer, I have the tree, the tree between myself and where I think the deer is coming. So that can play a hindrance when trying to uh you know, because you gotta work around that tree when when it's time to draw. But you can get it away with a lot more if you have a giant tree. And you know, there's a whole bunch of other things, like crazy thoughts that I have about cover. And you know certain types of camo, and you know what colors to wear when you're when you're in a more of an exposed spot like that, And then you know, as far as the tree stands are concerned. If I'm wide open, I'm going higher. If if I'm if there's a lot of cover, especially early season, when you would the potential for having to do a lot more trimming. On a running gun set up, I'm sitting a little bit lower right under that canopy, and typically, um, if one came by, I would be sitting down for the shot. Okay, let's I want to jump on something. You just said that though without glossing over. You mentioned that, and I think this is what I heard you say, is that when you're setting up in those types of situations, you will have your tree stand facing away from where you think the deer is coming from. Correct, right, It sucks, but I mean I'll be I'll be standing up and facing the tree for the majority of the night. Yeah, now I like that. I am. You know. I actually have not done that a whole lot. I have done it on occasion, um, but I I haven't purposely done that. But I've read a couple of things. I know Bill Winky. I read, Um, Bill Winky was talking about this tactic a while ago, and it makes all the sense in the world in him. It sounds like you've been doing and having success with it because you know you're able to get that cover. The tree trunk is the cover now between you and the deer. So even in a situation if there's not a lot of branches, you can still get some concealment. Then you just have to wrap yourself around to get that shot. But I think I'm gonna be doing that a lot in the future because that makes it's a way to kind of get the best of both worlds. In some cases, it sounds like now both me and you film are hunts. So okay, So if you're facing where you think the deer is coming from, all right, let's say you have an open field, you have to have your camera arm at that point is going to be on one side of you or the other. So you have to find out, you know, you grab the camera, go behind your back with it. If that deer comes from the other other way. You're turning your sideways at some point. Now imagine that it's turned around. You have all your equipment in front of you. Now you have no equipment behind you, so you're not having to turn around as much. You're not having to uh, you know, grab the camera arm, grab the camera behind your back, go behind you. All you have to do is just makes distance between yourself and the tree to bring that camera arm around you. You know, you have your bow right in front of you. So the only thing you really have to worry about is if a deer is coming through. And typically I stand the whole night, the whole time anyway, is noticing the deer before. Like if you're sitting down facing away from where you think they're going to be traveling, all you gotta do is stand up and turn around. You have all your equipment right in front of you. Yeah, you make you make a very compelling argument, my friend. I think I think I'll be doing that more often this year. For sure. It helps out a lot. Yeah, I can see, I can see. How So now you mentioned that in the early season you'd like to be a little bit lower before the canopy, um below the canopy. Let's talk about what your tree stand height looks like during the later part of the year, when the true or when the leaves are down. You know, for me, I'm typically trying to be um, you know, eighteen twenty two ft or maybe if I can get away, I like to be high. I think you do too, probably, Um what's that? What's that look like for you? Usually? I mean, I'm man, I tell you it's it's hard to It just depends on the thickness of the area, because I hunt on a lot of really nasty thicks, thick stuff. And the lower the lower you are, the more in these thicker areas, the lower loweria are. Now you're gonna be right underneath that canopy, so to speak, and right above those I don't know, those bushes that stay green all year round. You know what I'm talking about, with those green leaves all year round. So there's like that window right in between there. That's where I'm sitting. Um. Now, as as those leaves start to fall and I can get away with getting higher, I'm moving higher. I mean, if I if I could hunt thirty ft. I mean I like to move all right. People make fun of me because I glass so much. I'm using my binoculars all the time. That's that's actually my downfall. I've actually been looking through my binoculars and then a deer is right underneath me. Because so I like to try to get a like to try to get high so I can get away with a little bit more movement. Um, I have terrible knees, so I have to I have to shake my legs out every once in a while, if that makes sense. So so yeah, I mean low when it's thick, high as that season, you know, get a little higher as that season goes on. But every setup is the same. Running guns are lower just because, uh, you don't have to trim as much. But if I'm going to a hunt that I've trimmed in the summer, I mean that that tree stands somewhere around the mark. Yeah. One one thing I'm thinking of here, you know, when it comes to stains that you're hanging, you know, in the summer, if you're in a tree where if it's in a situational we talked about earlier, where there's a perfect tree, like that tree is in the spot it's a killing spot, but the tree doesn't offer good cover. And even if you're gonna have the stand facing the opposite direction, or if you don't want that, you know, another option that i've um, you know, found work pretty well is creating your own cover. And so what I'll do is I'll take branches or have even had um some people mentioned me they use fake Christmas tree branches and I think that's pretty genius. I might be trying that in the future. And they zip tie them and we attached them to the tree stand or the tree around you, so you have fake cover around you, um, and you kind of manufacture that. So I've done that a number of spots and it's worked. It's worked really well. So that's something to think about for people that have a great spot not a great tree. You can do some work beforehand to make it work. Still. Yeah, that's uh, that's one thing I've done, and I can't remember the tree. It might be an oak, cut a branch off an oak tree and zip tie it to U zip tie it, I don't know, right at your right at your torso level, and those those uh, those leaves will stay on all year. Or I'll take a pine, which if it's fresh and if it's a running gun, I'll zip tie it to the to the tree or my stand. It kind of offers a little bit of scent control as well, you know, as far as what my nose smells. You know, I got that that seed or smell. It's it's a cool smell, but but it kind of breaks up your breaks up your your outline a little bit as well. Yeah, no, for sure, I always keep a little package of zip ties in my backpack just in case, you know, I have a situation like that. Um. Okay, So I think I've got two major questions I want to make sure we still cover. So number one, let's talk about the type of tree stands we like to use. I'm curious what models of tree stands you know, are using ladders versus hang ons or climbers or all the above. And then I'd be curious to know what brand tree stands you like, Dan, And then I'll share my thoughts to right. Um, well, as far as styles are concerned. Man, the past oh six years, maybe I've only hunted with um hang on and sticks, um, unless there is a tree stand already in the tree. Let's say I I go to a because some of these farms already have these old rickety ladder stands in them and they're six they're like a farm king that's the store in Iowa, and so so they're affordable. And that's what I used to used to hunt. Now that I have a little bit more money, and uh, I got some benefits from previously being you know, with with a hunting show. I the convenience level of hang on with sticks. They're easy to pack him, their lightweight, and you can adjust them to whatever tree you want. Uh. You know, I'm my the brands, the brand that I have and use the most as a lone wolf. And uh, I have one other muddy tree stand that's uh chained to a chained to a giant oak somewhere. I mean, I don't even know where it's at. It's it's in the woods somewhere and I left it there and I think it's probably by now it's probably grown into the tree. But my lone Wolf's man, they're hard to be. I mean, you just they're so compact. I mean, you can set up a tree stand in five minutes and you can be hunting. It's not I mean it's it's it's easy. And that's what I like about them. Yeah, those are really nice. So are you saying that you are doing almost all of your hunting from you know, you're you're hanging up sticks in the stand every time you go in pretty much well on the farms, Like all this stuff is my my stands now. Okay, so years ago, like two years ago, I used to leave my sticks and my stands in the timber, you know, from the when I trimmed them out. Now I'll take the bottom two sticks off, so I have two sticks in the stand already in the tree. So when I come there that night and typically I hunt a night and then the morning I'll put the two sticks up and then everything else is everything else is up and ready. Okay, So I have I think right now, I have about three three stands, uh, and two of them will be set up in permanent spots that are perfect for when I take my vacation for the rut, and the other one is my running gun set that I'll use throughout the rest of the year. Yeah. Okay, Well you've definitely got a more economical approach than I do, so props to you for that, because I you know, this again goes back to just the way the way my mind works through things. I have to have everything prepared ahead of time. Um. And so that means as I own like twenty or try stands, and I have these set up all over the place, you know, all over the darn world, um, because ninety five percent of the time I like to be able to just walk right into a to a spot and be able to climb right up in the tree, um and hunt, because I just I hate I'm always so paranoid about making a bunch of noise and taking too much time and screwing something up when I'm doing that. Not to say I don't do run a gun. Sometimes I do, and I think it works really well, and I want to do more of it, um, But what I end up doing is more times than not, I try to have as many spots as possible prepared. So I've got like seven or eight stands on one property, and I've got a property down Ohio where we have you know, six stands up right now, and we're looking at adding four more of the summer, so we'll have ten different spots set up, um. And what those tree stands are ninety not even all of them are hang on stands, um. And then we use either the kind of the climbing sticks, not the porriable climbing sticks, but the ones that kind of brack it in together and it's a big twenty ft section that you can start to the tree. We use those, or most of the time I just used the screwing the screwing steps. And I don't even like him. I hate putting him into the tree. Um, it's a royal pain. But I'm just so darn cheap that chapest things I can get, so so those I use a lot. And then when it comes to actual tree stands, I've got kind of a a mess of all sorts of different kind of brands. I've got a handful of muddy tree stands which are really nice like those hang ons a lot. I got a great comfortable seat. Um. I've got one Lone Wolf, which I love as well. I use. That's my main running guns set. I've got that. It's the Lone Wolf Assault I think it is. And then I've got the sticks to go of it. I love that. Um. And then I have like fifteen of the forty dollar cheap Oh specials from Walmart or TSC or whatever it might be. Um, and those are the ones that are you know, set up in most areas, and I hate them. They're not comfortable, they're not quiet, they're not great, But when it comes right down to it, it's better than nothing, and it's what I can afford at the time. So now I know guys up north that strictly hunt with climbers, that's all they do. Though then they're typically only gun hunters too. Here's a story for you. I oh, I mean, I wasn't. I don't know if I was out of high school yet or not. So it was somewhere around two thousand and Uh you're really dating yourself right here. Yeah, I know, I know. But uh so I got uh, I got a climber for a gift, and so I put it on my back, and well I practiced with it and this chunk of this public piece before I went to my hunting spot. So I get out there and as always, I'm doing some kind of running gun deal. I find the tree that I want to get in and it's crooked, and I'm like, how the hell am I gonna get up this thing with this ladder? So I went to I went over to UM, I went over to about twenty yards away for thirty yards away from where I wanted to be. On the opposite side of that was where I wanted to hunt. Now I get my I get my my climber up and and I'm set up. I dropped my release, So you gotta go all the way back down, come all the way back up. But here's the here's the kicker. So that night and I was probably you know, like I said, I was somewhere around the and uh in in walks, probably a one sixty five class ten pointer, and he had like a split brod. I can. I can remember it as if it was yesterday. And that was the day I vowed to never use a climbing tree stand again. Because I was in there, I was not in the right spot. I I brought in the climber, couldn't get into the tree that I wanted. And uh, but you know, there's guys out there who they're pretty good at. I know a guy who doesn't even use tree stands. He uses one of those saddle swings. You ever heard of those? Yeah, A couple of my friends use them too. He has I don't know how he gets up in the tree. I think he's got like some kind of of Lineman's uh thing where you kind of you know, you've seen those TV shows where they see how fast they can climb a telephone pole. Yeah, I think that's how he gets into a stands, buckles up and just sits in like the crotch of a tree. Yeah. Yeah, I like, yeah, I know a couple of guys do the exact same thing. They've got tree spikes on their on their boots that allow them to you know, smash their feet into the tree and just kind of shimmy up. It's pretty crazy and I would love to try that sometime. I've heard they work. I've heard they work really well, but they're they're out of business, so it's kind of hard to find those saddles, the tree saddles or tree slings or whatever they are. But I have heard good things about them. That's uh. I I have not used a climber before, but I did actually get one for Christmas this year, So we'll see. We'll see if I use it into what degree I use it. Um you know, Like I mentioned, I want to be more mobile this year. I want to get out there and um you know, this is another point we didn't really talk about a lot, and it applies more to me probably than you, since you're already moving around a lot more um but me, because I have these already set up tree stands all over the place, it can sometimes be tempting to just want to go back to one of them because it's convenient, and it's it's easy to fall into the trap of over hunting a stand location and you know, I think what I've found is that you can very quickly educate deer in the area, especially mature dear, if you're visiting the same stand, you know, over and over um. So you know, this year, I'm really trying to be really firm about not hunting anyone's stand more than just a handful of times um. And then you know, moving on new places because I think those those virgin sits or the first couple of sits are really dramatically better. I don't know what you've seen, but yeah, you know, it's it's hard to tell because you know this this almost comes back to that when people say there's a lull going on. I I hate it when people say, oh, it's the October lull. They're moving, dear, don't just disappear. Okay, they're there and they're just not They're not They're not moving where your trail cameras are at or where you're hunting. They're moving somewhere because they got a drink and they gotta eat, and they got they got a bed, and from point to point B that's where they're moving. You're just you're just not seeing them. Yeah, so true, So that got I got off topic there. I apologize, No, that's not That's a good point, UM, and one that we're definitely gonna be talking about in a few months as we get closer to the fall. I'm sure we could have a couple episodes about October the quote unquote October lull and how to hunt it and everything. UM. One one last thing before we um, before we close things out here, anything else about your running gun hunting, because I think this is something when it comes to tree stand strategies that a lot of people want to know more about. Any tips for guys out there that want to be more mobile with their stand setups. You know, what would you what would you share with them? Dan? I mean, you gotta be you gotta be willing two take a risk. I mean you gotta be a risk taker first of all, and then that's what that's what running guns set ups do. Now, sometimes they can hurt me sometimes, And to be honest with you, on these running guns, that is when I'm typically the most successful, UM, bumping into a new area, uh, finding out where these deer traveling and bouncing around from tree to tree to tree. The year I should not like this past year, but the year before when I shot my When I shot my buck, I was in probably a twenty I'm gonna say a two ft by two ft by two d foot square, all right, so uh And I probably changed stand locations in that area, maybe a two acre area. I changed stand locations maybe six times before I got to where I needed to be. Wow. Now I'm talking dropping, dropping your set, walking twenty you know, twenty yards and setting up again and doing that until you until you think you got these deer pegged. And that's what and that's what it takes. You can't just go like I'm lucky. I share a hunting property with an old fat man because he sets, he's been sitting in the same tree stand probably since nineteen seventy nine or whenever they legalize bow hunting in Iowa. And it works to my benefit. Um, it pushes all the deer away from me. But you have to be able to You have to be able to be mobile. And if if a deer is making a move and he starts, even if it's a pattern for two days, you see him move that that one day or that one night, you best believe that next night I'm over in that area. I'm over where I saw that buck because if he's coming, if he's coming from there, once there, there's a potential he's going to come there for you know again especially you know the early to mid mid October season. Now the rut, it's all bets are off, but you know that and have a backup of whatever you need with you. You know, a good handsall pole, you know, a pole saw what because I've I used to not carry a pole saul when I when I was hunting and uh, I used to work for a pulse All company, and now I always carry a pole saul. And watching, uh, watching a buck that is a hundred and eight inches and not being able to take a shot because you didn't have uh I didn't have your tree trimmed is a gut wrenching experience. I can imagine. That doesn't sound like fun. Yeah, So you know, take a little extra time when you get to your location and just be patient and it's like, you know, remember what Dan Infalts said it on the podcast he was on. He he likes to get to his location and then stop when he's like yards out and just observe, calm his breath and just then take a couple of minutes to gather yourself and then approach. Uh. And I think that I think that's great advice. Yeah, No, I like that too. I think the one other thing I would add, just based on my experience with it, is if you're new to doing this whole running gun thing UM, and you're out there with you or either your climber or with your your portable stand and sticks, make sure that you've practiced a good bit before you're out there in the woods actually trying to hunt. Because if you're not confident, you know, putting your sticks up, putting your stand up, and doing all that quietly and quickly, you're gonna, you know, you're gonna have some struggles, especially after dark um or you know, before daylight in the morning. So I would actually try to practice at night. You know, lots of times when I'm going in there, I'm either putting up a stand before it's daylight or I'm tearing down to stand you know, after dark in the evening. Lots of times those types of situations happen, and if you're not comfortable doing that, it can be a real challenge. So, you know, I encourage you just to make sure you have experience with it if you knew with it, and you know, and everywhere you go people are gonna say the same thing, Man, use a safety harness. It's it's just not it's not worth it. And and I've been I've had some scares in my life, uh, setting up some of these running gun sets or set, I mean even preseason. You know, it just takes one little slip and I don't care if you're falling eight foot or you're falling twenty five you're gonna break your neck and then you're never gonna hunt again. And uh, I'm not I'm not willing to take that risk. YEP, I agree. Is it's not worth it at all? So safety first, Safety first. Well, I think that's Uh, that's a pretty perfect place to wrap up. You think so, Dan, I think so, because I think if we go in any further, uh, I'm not gonna have my chores done by the time my wife gets home. Well we can't have that. We can't have that, we cannot have that. All right, Well that said, then, you know, to everyone out there listening, thanks so much for joining us. I hope this was interesting and hopefully you know, helpful in some different ways. Um, we always would love to hear from you if you have different ideas on on these same topics, so feel free to shoot us a message on Facebook or an email. UM let us know what you think. If there's different tree stand ideas that you think are worth sharing, you know we'd love to hear about that. Um. Also, you know, if you're new to the show, be sure to head over to iTunes and subscribe to the podcast so you'll get updates when our new shows are released. And if you haven't enjoying the show, you know we would of course love it if you could leave a rating or review on iTunes as well. You know it takes just a quick second and it really helps us keep the show on the air and doing what we're doing, so thank you in advance for that. We'd also like to thank our partners who helped make the show possible so big thanks to Sick and Gear, Bushnell Optics, Trophy Ridge, Bear Archery, Redneck Blinds, Carbon Express Arrows, Lacrosse Boots, Big and J, long Range Attractants, and the White Tail Institute of North America. We really appreciate your support. That said, then, be sure to visit Wired to Hunt dot com Slash Episode eight that's the number eight to view the show notes and any links we might have from today's episode, and if you're new, head over to wired hunt dot com to sign up for our white Tail Fixed newsletter as well, where we send out different updates, and now once a week or once every two weeks, I'll be sending out a summer email to everyone letting you know what's you know most interesting on the blog as well too, so that's something to look for, and also be sure to head over to Dan's new blog at nine finger Chronicles dot com as well. There's some some good stuff over there already, so I like what you're doing their damn so so thank you again everyone out there and wired hunt Nation. You guys are the best. We appreciate everything you do and the fact that you're taking time out of your busy day to spend a little time with us. And until next time, have a great week and stay wired Hunt.

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