00:00:02 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm your host Mark Kenyan, and this is episode number fifty two to In the show, we're discussing hunting gear and all the gizmos gadgetson products we love, use and abuse. All right, welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. And today we're finally doing a gear episode. And we've gotten a lot of emails and message is over the past year asking for us to dive deep into the gear we use. So today, finally we're going to do that, and I'm sure it's gonna be a pretty interesting chat. But before we get into all that, it's been a little while, Dan, what's going on? Well, my baby is getting ready to explode from my wife's body like in the movie Aliens, but not really, but she is due just about like any second. I have my phone in front of me, so there could be a phone call coming in to where it's like I'm going to hospital. Get there. Wow, how crazy would that be if that happened on there? If that happens, will you just keep the phone on recording on the whole drive to the hospital and maybe right into the room. Can you do that first, I'll go remote with it. I'll talk about We'll probably be talking about tree stands while the doctor's yelling push in the background. That'll be uh, some some pretty special audio footage right there. I'd just be like, can you guys keep it down. I'm recording a podcast. I gotta get this, gotta get this. That's funny. But stuff's going well with that? She uh feeling all right? Or she just she's done, she's been done. She hates me. Um, she hates pretty much everything, and she's very uncomfortable. Um. My wife is notorious for having a short fuse anyway, but now she has no fuse. So most of my time has just spent not talking, like poking my head around the corner first before I enter a room. Oh man, So this is like a nice little therapy session for you. You can talk and no one's gonna jump on you about it. Yeah. I'm here for you, Dan, Thanks man. But I don't think our listeners want to hear me complain about my marital my my marriage and how how difficult it is is. In the last week of a pregnancy, I suppose not onto onto funner topics, right exactly. Now, wait a second, speaking of fun topics, you went to Montana and you didn't take me with you. Yeah, sorry about that. I was in Mantana, yeah, for the last week. That's why you know we didn't have the episode last week. Um, because I was taking my first vacation since last July, I think. So that was nice. I had a little bit of business out there, and we used that as an excuse to, uh, for me and the wife to spend some time in the mountains. So yeah, I had quite a quite a trip, kind of all over the western part of the state. Hit like five or six different mountain ranges. Went to Glacier National Park, went to Yellowstone National Park, went to the bitter Roots, Selway National Forest, the Flathead National Forest, the Gallant and National Forest, the Low Low Lant National Forest. So you went over in Idaho. No, No, all those all those were within Montana. Okay, I got you, Um, but some of them, some of those national forests extend between both states. Um. But yeah, it was awesome, beautiful country, lots of fresh air, lots of wildlife. It was good to just kind of revitalize myself with some good old fashioned wilderness. So unplug a bit exactly. But you know, after I am plugged, now when I get back to the computer, it's kind of overwhelming all this stuff I have to catch up on. But uh, but it's all good. It's all good. I had a you know, I've been I do a lot of I spend a lot of time out well for for Eastern or Midwestern, I spend a pretty good amount of time out West. I usually go out to the mountains a couple of times a year, as you know. UM. But over all those travels, I still haven't had an encounter with a grizzly bear. And I always joke with my wife that that's like the one thing on my bucket list I still really want, um, is to have some kind of you know, safe encounter with a grizzly Um. Well, this time we came well, I'll just I'll tell a really quick story here. So we decided to take this hike UM in this area just north of Yellowstone National Parks. This is in Montana, north of the National Park, on some national forest land, and it's just this basin that goes deep into the mountains and it was just this past Monday, so you know, a weekday. It's early in the season, so there's not any really almost any tourists. It's really slow, um. So it's really nice and not a lot of people. Um. So we drive this dirt road way way way, way way back to get to this National Forest access point. Um and we saw three moose right at the spot where we parked our car, so that was really cool. And as we're walking down them, there's actually a road closer. So we had to walk down a dirt road through this old ranch essentially to get to the National Forest. UM. So on this dirt road, there's tracks from probably a few days, maybe three or four days before, when the road was wet. There's been a big snow, big snowstorm the first day we got there. Um, after that snow melted, you know, there was the wet spots on the road and so there's all sorts of tracks in the road, relatively fresh. And we came across some just huge grizzly tracks walking right down the middle of the road. So that was kind of cool, just like, yeah, there was a grizzly here you know, a few days ago. It's pretty cool seeing that. Um, it made it kind of feel you know, real real western for a little bit. This. So we're walking along and kind of we're talking about I got all kind of geeked out about it. Um. And then we sat, I had some lunch, blah blah, and eventually a side turnaround come back because we had other plans for the rest of the evening. And as we walked back on the back of all that same road again, we come through this little section where there's kind of a rocky strewn hillside to the right side of what's just this old dirt road that it's not accessible by vehicles. You can only walk are right now, um, and there's rocks all across the road. Now where before when we'd walked by there like an hour before, half hour before, there was nothing. Now there's a whole bunch of rocks all over. I'm like, what happened here? And as we walk up and I'm looking around, immediately you just see just had happened, fresh grizzly tracks in the dust all around the road right where we had walked through. So sometime, you know, within an hour or a half hour of us walking through, their grizzly had came down across that road, kind of milled about where we've been walking, and then headed back back up into the woods. Um so that was my closest call I've had with a grizzly Now I still haven't seen one, but I had one walk near to me or near where I was at one point recently. So that was my cool thing there. I guess, Well, that's pretty neat Mark. I'm glad you didn't get eaten by a grizzly bear. Me too, Me too. It would have been a real I was wondering about that. What would happen like if I get eight by grizzly bear? If I fell up on the mountains? You know what would happen to Wire to Hunt? What happens this podcast? But one day you'd find out I was dead and you'd have to figure out how to post an episode to at least close things out and say, well, Mark's dead, this is the last episode. Uh he got eight by bear and I was how would Dan figure that out? Would you be what do you know how to post it? Would would just post on the Facebook page and say sorry, we're all done. Well. I really don't know what I would do with Wired to Hunt but I know that it would probably take a complete degree turn. I would probably drive it right into the ground, and and then you know, all your viewers would go someplace else and then finally it probably just fizzle out and fade away. But but so so do me a favor and just bring bear spray every time you go out into the woods so you don't get so you don't so I don't have to worry about all that stuff. Good, good, good plan. I'm glad that that's why I've got wired hunt, willed to my wife to continue on or figure out what to do it. Okay, all right, oh man, so yeah, I survived Montana, no bear attacks. I always make sure that bear spray with me, and we just are gonna avoid you. Taking the war Hunt podcast from from I think the podcast, like the recording I can do. But like I don't know all this, all the stuff where you need a professional in place, like a person who is a professional like I probably swear too much, you know. Just just imagine me working for the National Deer Alliance. You can't have someone in your position saying in the F word, you know, and addressing the deer hunting community. No, yeah, yeah, I'm speechless. I don't I don't know what to say to that, but yes, I agree with you. So so yeah, Montana is good. Your wife's gonna have a baby, and we're talking about gear today, talking gear, and soon we'll probably be talking turkeys because I'm about to start turkey hunting tomorrow morning, so I'm excited about that. But but for now, I think we should talk about the gear we use. I know you'd like talking about gear, and I like talking about gear, and most people, I think a lot of hunters in general, we just kind of geek out about gear, don't you think. Yeah, I think it's one of those things where no matter what, Like golfers love talking about golf stuff. You know, if you're into football, or if you're into any other type of sport, you love talking about that kind of stuff. I mean, my brother is a Star Wars nerd, so he loves talking about Star Wars. You know, just like all that, if if you love something, you love to talk about it and all the things that go along with it. So you know, for hunters, it's the same way, very true, very true. So I think with that being so true today, it makes sense that hopefully this will be an interesting episode everyone at least and for whatever it's worth. I thought you and me could share the different types of gear we use and maybe some thoughts about why we use it, why we like some things, why we don't like some things. Um, you know, we can kind of walk through all the different things we currently use, maybe a few products that we've used in the past that we don't like, um, and we can just kind of see where things go that. But in the end, hopefully there'll be some um you know, I'm sure we'll share some recommendations that maybe our listeners can take if they're interested or looking for something along those lines or though you know, just hear us ramble on about what we like and what we don't like, which I guess is kind of like what every podcast usually is. Hopefully will be helpful. Um. So I think, you know, I planned, Daniels Keith is pretty loose. Just we could kind of walk down the list of just like you know, different categories of gear, and you can tell me what you use, and I can talk about what I use, and then we can just you know, argue about it as we see fit. It's not a good plan, hey, I'm telling you right now, everybody. Everybody's going to be different. Everybody has things that work for them. And uh, like I said, I think that I'm I never used to be a gear head, but now I'm that I'm getting deeper into it. I find myself wanting to know more about uh specific products, why they're designed, the way they're designed, and and I'm I'm becoming that gear head. So yeah, it's easy to become a gear head too. There's just it's a you especially these days, more and more companies coming into the fold. There's just a tremendous amount of innovation and new things coming out, and so there's always just exciting new things to learn about and see and to learn about them. So that that said, though, before we get into this talk and this is I think a separate cover maybe maybe a conversation, you know, we can start right here, but I think it has to be said, um, it's talking about just in the hunting industry as a whole. When it comes to gear it's always kind of shadowed by sponsorships. Right If you if you watch any hunting TV show, UM or or really any hunting media, there are sponsorships attached to every piece of media where companies are paying you know, XTV show or host or writer or whatever it might be, to use their product or to promote their product or whatever it might be. And so these days, and you know, you see so and so on TV talking about this bow, I would have never killed this deer because you know, without this bow. You know, these recommendations that we get from a lot of guys now, you know, are kind of tainted, I think because they're just getting paid to say that. Um, and so you and me have both talked about the frustrations of that sometimes where it's just kind of everything is getting pimped all the time, and it just gets a little overwhelming, right, And it's and it's one thing where a really good product can can go unnoticed because the marketing budgets of these other companies and you know, these celebrities saying that the specific product is good, these these new and innovative products can sometimes just go right into the table and never be seen or never be used. Yeah, that's so true. There's a lot of a lot to be said about marketing. Yeah, um, and I guess I kind of like that since I'm a marketing major. So yeah, look at that, look at us now, um So, I guess with with that all being the case, I wanted to talk a little bit about my perspective on sponsorships and how I've tried to approach it because you know, as I think everybody knows, um, you know, Wired to Hunt has has partners or sponsors, UM and I want to talk a little bit about about that and be transparent about it, and also make sure everyone understood what those relationships look like and and mean, and what my mindset has gone has been going into that process. Um. It makes sure everyone understands that before we start talking about gear, because inevitably I'm gonna be talking about some products that are you know, related to my sponsors and some that aren't. Um So he like I've said, you know, it's really frustrating if you look at a lot of the hunting media today just how kind of slamming it all feels. So, you know that being the case, when I started Wired to Hunt, I wanted to try to do it a different way. I wanted to I wanted to feel comfortable and honest about talking about my partnerships or sponsorships with my listeners or when my readers, UM and so would that in the case, I need to make sure I was partnering with the right companies, because what I didn't want to ever have happened is, you know, there's some company associated with me or wired Hunt, and I had to say something about that company that I didn't feel it was true. And then if I'm doing that, if I'm not being honest with the audience, those people who are reading my stuff, they have no reason to trust anything I do ever again, so I knew I couldn't do that. So would that be the case. I don't I don't know even know if you knew this, Dan, But when I started wired to Hunt, I did not make a single dime from word hunt for over three years. Um. I just ran it with no advertisements, no sponsorships, know nothing for years and I, you know, as some people, and I worked every single day posting new articles, new things, and I grew the audience to a large enough size, you know, where I had people that wanted to advertise, that wanted to sponsor, to want to do things. Um. But what I decided is that I would not accept any partnerships or sponsorships or advertisers until it was a company that I actually had experience with or trust in that I could feel really comfortable, you know, putting my name behind him. UM. So it wasn't until like three and a half years in that I finally had that, um and that's what I've tried to that's what I have done ever since. UM So, you know, with with all of our current partners, um, every single one of them, I have most of them, I've been using their products for five, ten, fifteen years, even in some cases since before we ever had any kind official relationship and anything new in the future. The biggest thing for me is that it has to be a product that I you know, really truly do believe in and really truly use before I'll ever associate it with wired hunt anyway. So that all being the case, I do have partners on weird Hunt. They do pay me, and they pay they pay Wired to Hunt for that exposure. And so that everyone understands this is what our partners get when they, you know, agree to be a sponsor of wired Hunt. They get ads on the site, which you guys, I'm sure you've seen on the site, on the main home page, on the individual blog post pages. They also get mentioned in the podcast, and they get you know, if I'm using any of the products, they get featured in our videos, they get featured in photography and different things like that. So basically product placement. By virtue of the the fact I use their products, They're going to be seen and that's helpful to their brand. UM. What I make very clear to anyone that I'm working with is that they're not paying me for a glowing um endorsement of everything they do, of every product they have. UM. I can't do that because I'm not just a TV so I'm not a TV show host at all, but I'm also you know, in the media, and I you know, part of the value a have to bring is is critical you know, journalism and looking at stuff honestly and talking about what's good, what's bad, what's in different. UM. So I've meant it very clear that when I talk about any of the the products that I'm using, if that's from a partner, I'm going to tell the honest opinion of what I think about it. I use. Sure, some of these things I use because they're given to me, and I'll be be honest about that. Right. Some of these things are given to me. Some of these things I've paid for. UM. But I'm only going to use the things that I really do trust that they really would be using even if I didn't have a relationship with them. Um. And so I guess I just want to make sure that was like clear and open and everybody understood that. So I'll talk about a lot of products and I'll explain why I like them. Um. But you know, I'm never going to tell you that you won't be able to kill a big buck if you don't use this bow, or if you don't use this camouflage, or if you don't use this blind. There's lots of good options out there. Um. These are options that have worked well for me and that I believe in. But you know there might be other options that work different and the work better for you. It's all personal preference, I think. And Dan, you know you and me we use different gear. We both are gonna have just probably just as good of a chance at the mature buck if we do certain things the right way. UM. So I think a lot of this, while you know there are some things that I think are better than others. We're all gonna have our different opinions, and UM, I guess that's why I want to have this conversation, so we can talk all about that and uh and dive into why and and what and how and all these things that are always using pretty interesting. So yeah, and and like you said, man, I've seen I've I've been in the quote unquote hunting industry, and I hate saying that because it sounds so douche, but like, but I've been, I've I've had exposure to it, and I've seen the good and the bad side of what you're talking about, and where people are flip flopping to the highest bidder based on you know, what products gonna gonna give them the most, even though the product may be a piece of junk. They got a huge marketing budget. They're gonna be able to pay this this top dog, whoever it is, you know, a bigger amount of money to use this particular product. And uh, then basically what they do is, you know, they have you know, tons of people who trust them and are going to purchase this product even though it may not be the best. So it's one of those things where we're gonna we're gonna talk about our experiences today. You the listener need to do your own research and find out what products work best for you your hunting style and your scenarios and and make your decisions based off that. Yeah. Absolutely, And I think, um, I think that's the things that, like you said, there's just so many examples out there of people that, from you know, my perspective, have done it in a way that doesn't seem to be the best way. And so I think, you know what we're gonna try to do here what I've what I've tried to do here with the wire darners, to do things the right way, be transparent about things, and share my perspective and share your perspective. And so I say, let's just get into it. Enough of this hob noven around it. Um let's talk some gear. What are we gonna talk about first? I think let's let's start with tree stands, Dan, what kind of tree stands do you like? Right now? All my tree stands are lone wolf tree stands with four climbing sticks. Lone wolf climbing sticks. I have used that. I've also used muddy climbing sticks, and I've also used muddy tree stands and they all seem to work really good. Um. I've when I first started hunting, I was the cheapo ladder stands that you can buy a Farm King, which is a store in Iowa that buy like farm supplies that for like sixty bucks, I'd buy a tree stand and that's what I hunted with most of the most of the time. And uh yeah, some of my Lone Wolf's I've received for free. Some of them I've purchased myself. But Lone Wolf just works for my kind of hunting style. You know, we talked about running and gunning all the time, and I'm a firm believer in that, and Lone Wolf allows me to do that. I can walk into a timber, I can set up the tree stand in under ten minutes and and and be hunting and it it allows me to be mobile. And that is the biggest reason that I use those tree stands. So I think, like the Lone Wolf assault, I think is what it's called um or Alpha something or other. There's a couple of them on the hang ons those are running like three bucks or something like that. Is it worth Is it worth that much money to get a single tree stand like that? And why do you think so? If that's the case, if you're and I'll tell you right now, here's my here's my view on that if you're a public land hunter and you only you don't feel comfortable taking your tree stands or leaving your tree stands in the tree, and you hunt, like I know a lot of public hunters do, tear up, set down, tear up, set down. I can see where that let's say three mark may sound cheap at first, but the the mobility that yeah, yeah, it sounds expensive, excuse me, But the mobility that it's it offers and the time that you're going to get out of that tree stand is going to be worth it in the long run because you are only gonna need really one of those stands. Now, if you own your property or you leased property, I can see where you you may not need a stand that expensive because it's just gonna sit in the tree anyway, and you're gonna use it as a permanent stand anyway. There's other products out there that are very similar to to that, and and even I've used combinations of my muddy tree stand and my sticks like um, the company Extreme Outdoor Products. It's actually the same guy who originally decide Um designed the lone Wolf. Um he sold lone Wolf and then he started up a new company with his son called Extreme Outdoor Products. It's basically the same one, same tree stand, it's a little cheaper. It's the only difference is one Lone Wolf as American made and uh I think XOP is made in China. I might have to look into that. Um. I think Gorilla tree stay have hang on and sticks that can do the same thing for for a cheaper price tag. So there's there's other there's other products out there that are similar. But the reason that I like Lone Wolf so much is there's the way their sticks can stack and tighten to the tree stand without because that's what they were designed to do. So you can tie them, you know, tie them real tight and it makes no noise if you do it right. Plus not I've got the new stick quiver, right, Do have you seen that? Yeah, I've I've seen that and I personally haven't used it yet. But from I think from a designs perspective, you have to take you have to take that that quiver off the tree if you want to set the tree stand up off the tree stand, excuse me, off the tree stand. If you want to set the tree stand up in the tree. So that's two extra parts that you're gonna have to take off the tree stand and and and then there's the question is it going to make noise when it comes out? Is it gonna when you snap it in or take it out? Does it make noise when you take off those quivers on the back side of the stand before you set the tree stand up? Does that make noise? Because the whole selling point of a Lone Wolf tree stand or any hang on stand is it's got to be quiet when you're setting it up, especially if you're running and gunning. Yeah, yeah, Um, you know what about you? Yeah, I think I hate to say it, but I'm going to have to agree with you. Dan. It's not a good start. I was hoping we're gonna agree on something. We agree on something. I was really hoping we could butt heads here. But um, I've used a lot of it from tree stands, um and probably you know two of my favorites other two of that you mentioned, um lone Wolf, and I have really liked my muddy stands and Muddy sticks and Lone Wolf sticks. And what I've found is is for me, a combination of different types of stands works best for me. So currently right now, and you know, things change. I'm sure we're gonna try different things and everything, but right now, like this past season, the setup that I used was one of the Lone Wolf Assault hang ons, which is their small, super lightweight UM hang on portable stand. And then what I like to use is I have their sticks, and I like their sticks a lot, um, but I also like the Muddy sticks. And Muddy has sticks that use a rope and cam system to attach to the tree instead of a buckle system or kind of loop de loop system. Um. And with the Lone Wolf sticks, you've got that metal I don't know what else call other than a buckle. It's not really buckle, but um, it's this metal piece that if you drop that, you know it'll clang up against the side of your sticks. UM. With Muddy it just has a piece of rope and the rope wraps on the tree and kind of latches into this clamp and um it's perfectly silent. It's really easy to set up. So I like those a little bit more than Lone Wolf sticks. Not that I use the loan Wald sticks a lot too, and they work great. But my perfect setup when I'm being mobile, when I'm going into a piece of public land or new farm. I'm not I'm not hunting it before if I don't have or even if I just want to be, you know, running and gunning like you do a lot, because I'll use the loan Wolf Assault and then four muddy sticks. Um. That's like my portable set. Um. But I think something you said it makes lost sense and it's kind of what I do. I like to have a couple of these, like premium stands, so I have my Lone Wolf hang on and sticks, and then I also have a Lone Wolf climber. So for my mobile setups, I was willing to I paid for those and that was not cheap. I think that the climbing set was like four hund bucks or something like that. So I use like all the money and gift cards and everything I had from Christmas a couple of years ago, um to get it. Um. But for the portable sets where I'm trying to go in there, like you said super quiet, I want something lightweight that's on my back because I'm hiking in there far with all my gear. I wanted to have something a little bit nicer, and I do think that spending extra money for that type of thing makes sense because I use that so much. Um. But for all my other tree stands that I hang on all the different farms I hunt, my lease, my property that different spots from Michigan, where I just have a bunch of you know, kind of not permanent but stands that are up there for a full season or two seasons or whatever might be. I can't afford to buy a bunch of two d three hundred dollar stands right now to put all over those places. I probably have like twenty or thirty different stands hung up across all my different properties, and there's no way I could spend that much money. So I have experimented a lot with the bargain basement tree stands, like the cheapest things you can buy, um to to just be afford to get myself in a tree um. And I've used a lot that really sucked, like a lot where they're miserable to use. They hardly hang on the tree, and they make noise, they move around awful, um Like yeah, super uncomfortable. Dunham sporting goods store. I don't know if that's anywhere in Iowa, but there's kind of a discounted sporting good store in Uh. In Michigan, they sell some cheap stands by some generic brand. I I don't even know what the name of the brands tell you the truth, but it's like their cheap stands for bucks. You can get these, and I used to load up on them just because they're the cheapest things I could get. And so I have these hanging all over a bunch of my properties and they are just god awful, like so bad. I just imagine the squeaking every time you shift your way, You're you're you're real close to the tree because you're afraid that one of the cables are going to break. I've had like there's one. It's it's horrible, and I sit there thinking to myself like this is like this is what you do? Like why are you using this horrible, crappy tree stand. Um. So I've slowly been upgrading them, um and luckily I've been able to find an upgrade that's not much more expensive. It's it's forty dollars when it's on sale. I think I may have told you about this before, but it's the comfort Zone tree stand. The brand is called comfort Zone, and I think it's I don't know, maybe it's called the Hunter or something like that. But the brand is comfort Zone and as far as I know, it's only sold by Dick Sporting Goods. I think it's probably their like their generic brand that they that they supply. Um, but for a fourty dollar tree stand, it's by far better than all the other cheap bargain tree stands I've used that run it's forty Okay, I'm gonna look into those. Yeah, I mean it's you know, some guys like if you're used to using a hundred fifty two stands all the time, you know these stands aren't gonna be that great. But for like it, it just covers the basics. It's a much more comfortable seat. It you attaches firmly to the tree. I don't have issues with what Like once I since down a strap, it stays sinched down tight with other cheap out trees stands, I'll sinch you down and like the next day I come back and it's loose again or creaking or different things. This is just it's simple. It's not a huge platform. Um, it's not a huge super cushion the seat, but it's it's a good enough seat. It's a good enough platform and it stays where it needs to be and it stays quiet. Um. And so for me right now, I have got my couple of premium tree stands that I move around with, and then I've got a bunch of these cheap tree stands. But I'm currently right now at least I'm buying comfort zones because that's the best option I found right now for a cheap tree stand. That's pretty good. So that's what I'm using. So do you ever run into a situation where you're you're trying to do a running gun or you or you're setting up tree stands and in the right tree is too big for the hanging sticks to hang on sticks, whether it's a lone wolf or muddy, so you have to use screwing steps. Do you ever use screwing steps? I do use screwing steps, um, usually just for like my not my pseudo permanent stand. So the ones that I'm gonna be keeping up all season, I do use the screwings. I don't like them. I hate them. No, I do too. They're man, they're dangerous if if if you get I mean, depending on what kind you use. They can when it's wet or there's frost on them. They can be slippery. I mean I I was climbing down one time and I caught my manhood on one of on one of the hooks, so I had to like force myself back up and shift over and and uh so that like I don't like to use them whenever I don't have to, but if it's in the rights, if I need to be in the right spot, it's a good it's a good starters, like the first two steps where you can, you know, the bottom stick won't fit around the base of the tree, but you put in two screwing steps and then by the time you get maybe five ft off the ground, then you're your hang ons will will work past that point. Yeah, yeah, Like you said, they're not ideal, but they are the cheapest option. Um So I use them a lot. I use them a lot because I'm, you know, for the most part, pretty cheap. Um I What I do prefer is I do like the oh gosh, the climbing like the not the individual climbing sticks like we're talking about like with low Wold for Muddy Love those, but like the ones that like four pieces attached together, like kind of a long, skinny ladder that you spend strapped to the tree. Yeah, I prefer those for my permanent sets that I'm hanging up, you know, early in the year. I like those, um, and I've been fine with different cheap models of that. Whatever I can afford, I get and those are all basically you know, good enough for me at this point at least. UM. So yeah, I think that's a I think that's what we use when it comes to tree stands. That's right. What do you what do you want to move on to next? You're calling my call? Yeah, you're called. Let's just go next on the list and that's calls. Yeah, let's top calls. Um, I'll share my thoughts a f your mind first, go for it. This again, for me, as with a lot of the gear I use, has just been like what I started with and I liked and I've got gotten confidence with UM. So early on, I just always used Primos calls. It was just you know, brand that seemed reputable back in the day when I was, you know, getting started in this kind of thing. And I've always been pretty happy with them, and I've still been happy. But there's there's lots of other good call makers out there. And I might try others, but right now, the Primos buckroar is my call all of choice. It's uh. I like it because it's got a deep guttural sound. Get I've got plenty of options to get good volume out of it. And then also has a snort wheeze tubonnet so that I can amplify that snort wee sound. Um, so for me that that grunt tube at this time is always with me. And then I also use one of the the dough and estrus bleep bleep cans um and I think that I think that's pretty most brain too, I believe um. So those are the two calls I use. And then I've got a little rattling bag. Sometimes I bring out antlers, but most of the time I actually just bring a rattling bag. I don't like them as much as antlers, but from a portability standpoint, it's just a lot easier when I've got camera gear and all my hunting stuff sometimes a tree stand, you know, on my back, plus my bow. Um, it's hard to then strap on a set of antlers to clacking around on the back. So I've got I think it's a night in hail rattling bag that I, you know, probably got five or six years ago, and that just works. That works fine. So that's when you don't use the black crack. I do not use the black crack. Um That advertisement with Uncle SI almost convinced me to try the black crack, but no, I haven't tried it yet. That's my that's my calling set up. What a what do you got going on? I'll tell you man. I was disappointed this year the grunt tube that I had had used and have had a ton of success with over the years, finally stopped working. Twelve years. I had it for twelve years. I used the same grunt call, just this deep, perfect grunt and then I would snort wheeze with my mouth. It stopped working, Like I think the read on the inside finally just gave out from you know, use and then extreme heat to extreme cold and back and forth. That read busted. So I went to Gainer Mountain and I opened every grunt call they ad and the guy looked at me like I was crazy, and I started blowing grunt calls that I'm that guy in game the mountain, you know, making you know, making the sound with it. And I ended up going with it's so bad. But the the bone collector, Uh yeah, but it sounded. It sounded the best to me? Is it the one that looks like an antler? Uh, an antler on one side and then a big black tube on the other and you can like squeeze it and control the pitch and tone and everything by doing that, and it actually works really good. And I've grunted in a couple of bucks this year, one good three year old and uh, and I also use I think I also use the premost bleak call that I very rarely use. Um. And then I always use shed antlers for Adam. Yeah. Definitely sounds better, don't they. Yeah, I mean. And when it comes to calls, I've learned that less at times is more. And this year I think I blew my grunt call maybe twice. Yeah. Wow, that's yeah, that's even less than I expected. Um. I've had, like you know, I agree with less is usually more and it's all about picking the right timing when you're gonna use that too. UM. But I've had a pretty good amount of success with with calling deer in UM when my grunt tubes. And I think it's all about just understanding the timing of like when when the right time is to use them, because if you're if you're using them all the time, I think you can definitely blow yourself. You know, you can definitely blow it. Let's just move on. Let's just move on. We are so immature. So what I'm what I'm trying to say, don't overcame. That's all I'm trying to say. You have to do to watch their like learn a bucks body language, because if they're there's certain times and I've I've learned this the hard way so many times when to call and when not to call. And I've called when their body language was either already tense or they were on extreme like extreme high focus and they'll either pick you off or they'll they'll locate you in a heartbeat and then they'll swoop all the way down when too you and you're then you're done. Yeah, yeah, I think that that reading of the body language, like you said, so important. We really have to have a full episode maybe just about calling and all these different things and things we've learned, and maybe get somebody else on to get another perspective. But that's another thing that there's a there's there is a lot to talk about when it comes to that. I think it is more of a there's a little bit of an art form to it, just knowing the nuances of when the right time is to try something think these things, and the right time of year, right time of day, right situation, all those types of deals. So I wants to dive into that more at another time. But but that's interesting to hear. UM. You know, in regards to to your success of that bone collector, UM, which is you know, ironic given some of the things we said earlier. But there's you know, nothing against those guys and the prox they endorse. I know there's lots of good stuff there too, UM, but you know it is what it is. So UM. Next, moving right along, UM harnesses. I have used a couple of different harnesses in my day. UM. I've personally used harnesses from Muddy and from Gorilla. UM. I also know a lot of guys I've been happy with the Hunter safety system. So that's something I've looked at two UM for me across the board. You know, I like, I like both harnesses I used from Muddy and Gorilla. UM. But what I specifically like is I like the low like the low profile ones, the kind of ultra light ones. I don't like the big vests, you know, the ones that were really popular maybe like five, six, seven, eight, nine years ago. UM, I prefer the ones there's you know, two thin straps, thin legs, straps. Um gosh. I think the one I'm currently using is the Gorilla XO something or other. I should know this, but I don't off the top of my head. UM, but I really like it. UM. And then the same the original Muddy that I use, like five years ago or something, was a very similar design. Again, it's that UM kind of low profile type model, and I like those a lot. But I think, you know, any one of those three brands that I've had some experience when I think they all they all make quality products that will be you know, they're gonna be safe, which is the most important thing that keep you safe in the trees, as long as you use it properly. UM. I think it's just a matter of finding what fit and feel you like the most. UM which for me, I liked the minimalist design. That's about the word I like the most of the minimalists. So it's a few straps, it's a few and um, you know, encumbrances as possible. That's a that's what I like. So that's what my current hars is is all about. I used to use one of those best ones, and to be honest with it, I liked it because the it's it was one piece and those um straps never would tangle. They never would uh, they would never would twist. And I can slip it on like a coat and I'm good to go. Now. The only problem with that is or any any safety harness when you get up in the tree and you need to remove layers or take you know, especially a hooded sweatshirt, you gotta take the top part off and and put it back on, and after after you put your you know, your next layer of clothing on. But but now I'm currently using a lone Wolf, a lone Wolf system with the padded shoulder straps, and I know it's probably not the safest, but I like to lean to take lean forward and have my safety harness strap really tight so it takes some of the pressure off of the back and legs. So, you know, because I try to sit down as you know, when there's no activity, but I always feel like something could come out at any time. So I like to stand a lot, so I like to lean back. I like face the tree and I leaned back, and it's just for me. It's comfortable. Yeah. No, I think I've done the same thing too sometimes. Um it's nice when you've got a good harness that you feel safe doing that, and so so that's harnesses. Um, how about weapons, that's big ones? People will you're using grenades out there? Well, I think in one of Ted Nugent's books he said if it was legal to hunt with a hand grenade, I'd do it, And yeah, I want, I don't doubt that. Not not really my style, but me on the other hand, I mean it'd be cool to see what would have up and you know, you like put a hand grenade next to a cow or something. But I don't think i'd ever use one. I only bow hunt. The only time I use a gun is for turkey hunting, and we're not talking about turkey hunting today. So bows. My very first bow I ever bought was a boat Tech tribute, and well, the very first bow I bought with my own money was a boat bow Tech Tribute. The very first bow I ever shot ever with I think it was made out of two by fours. But but when I went then I I made that jump from you know, like the old compound bows to the new age, new technology botech tribute. It's shot awesome. I loved it. And then um through the old company that I used to be with, Uh, we had a sponsorship by Elite, and I my opinion, I go, I go to the A T A show and I go to these trade shows every year and I shoot every bow on the market. And in my personal opinion, just like everybody has their personal opinion, Elite bows work for me and just have something about them that are so smooth and flawless, and uh they are I don't know, they just their draw their valley there. You know, when you release, there's there's hardly any vibration on the hand, you know, even without without a um uh the thing that you screw into the end of the bow stabilizer stabilizer holy smoked, even without a state. I think your your archery recommendations are very valid now that we know that you know. No, but I can't believe I had a brain part. But but Elite is awesome. Now, Elite is expensive and they're on the very high end of the bow price spectrum. Uh so save your save your pennies. Yeah, I've heard good things about them from you and from a couple of other people that they definitely seem like a good company. I have not used them though, um Me personally, I started when I was a kid shooting. Well, my first compombo, I first had a little long bow. I don't even know what brain was, but my first compound was a PSC and I use the P S C S for I don't know, five six, seven years I think, and well no longer than that, um, but I guess I think five years ago or somewhere around there, I switched to a bare bow and since then that's all I've been shooting, and I've been really happy with him. I mean, similar to why you like al um, some of the reasons you listed there are the same things about what I like about my bare bows. Um. Recently i've shot the Motive, and before that I think it was anarchy, UM, and what I really liked about was how smooth it was. Just you know, it's very there's plenty fast enough. Um. I think my bow right now is listed IBO speed around like three ft per second. I think, um, with a hunting arrow and everything. It's over three ft per second still and um, it's plenty fast enough, but it's forgiving. Like I look at forgiving bow. I practice a lot, you know. I make sure I'm a good shot, but I don't claim to be some kind of term and archer. I'm not gonna I'm not that good. Um. So I like a bow. I'd rather be, you know, a little more forgiving with my bow than be a speed demon and get the fastest, most aggressive bow on the market. So for me, that's what I really like about my current setup. Um. And any new bow I'll be getting, you know, or be trying out. You know, that's I'll be looking for something that's forgiving, something that's gonna be comfortable, easy to hold back on. Um. You know, I don't want something that's gonna come flying out of my hand when I'm a full draw. You know, this past season with the deer I killed in Ohio, I was a full draw for a minute and forty five seconds. Um. And I'm not some kind of bodybuilder. Um. So that was not easy. But with this bow, it was as easy as it possibly could have been. I think for me, um, because it holds holds back really while it's got a nice firm back wall. Um, and I'm just comfortable with it. I'm very comfortable with it, very smooth, very quiet, and like you said, have with your laite, I also feel like my bearer is you know, very quiet too. So that's the ball I've been shooting and been very happy with. I think, you know, again, with all these things when it comes to bows, a lot of it again as personal preference, like we've talked about, but you know, what's the right feel for you, and also what's the right brand for you? You know, what what brand do you associate with? Because like whether we like it or not, all these a lot of these product decisions come down to what that brand you know, means to us. And some companies do a good job of, you know, developing some kind of meaning behind their product that you want to be affiliated with, and some companies don't. Um, you know. For with Bear, I'm really kind of fascinated by the history. I'm kind of a romantic and that I enjoyed, like you know, great stories and the story of Fred Bear, the icon of Fred Bear, and you know, everything that went into you know, Bear archery being what it is now it's pretty neat to me. Um, you know, started in Michigan, where I'm from. So all that has really, you know, compelled me to be even more excited about taking a bare bow of me out in the woods because there's a lot of history behind it which is pretty neat. You know, my grandpa, I think, was shooting a bare bow when he was out there in the woods a long time ago. So, um, you know, I'm pretty excited about that. I've been happy with that bow choice, and there's lots of other options out there. There's plenty of good bows. I think there's ten different bow brands or maybe more. I don't know what it is, but there's a good number of brands out there that you know, all produce a very quality product. It's just a matter of going out there and and feeling each one. I would highly recommend, you know, making a bow decision based on personal experience with it. Like go to a shop and shoot these bows because as they all shoot different and some brands, one guy might really love how it feels and to you, it just might not feel right for you and your body type. Um, So go out there and actually test these things before you make a purchase decision. I personally think that's a really important thing, especially with the bow is more than almost anything. UM. I really think you need to get your hands on it, feel it tested out, um and make your decision based on that before you know, doing anything else. I actually had a conversation with the professional archer, to Levi Morrigan, you know, basically the best compound archer in the world, and he told me that he feels that the biggest mistakes that archers make is is equipment that does not fit them, meaning draw length and poundage. And in that he recommends going to UH, going to a trusted archery shot where they're not trying to sell you a bou but they're trying to get you with the moat the boat that fits you the best. You know, just like just exactly what you just said. Yeah, super important, super important. Now when it comes to guns, UM, I use a number of different firearms, um fight. You know, gun hunting, I do a little bit, as you know. I hunt for a few days during excuse me, a few days during our rifles season here in Michigan, and then usually for a week or two during muzzleloader across different states. UM. So when it comes to rifles, I'm just old timing. I'm still using the gun that my grandpa passed out to me, which is a Winchester Semiauto UM and so I've been using that gun forever for the rifle. It's like from the seventies or something like that. It's worked just fine for me. So that's what I use UM as for muzzleloaders. I've used Thompson Center and I've used c v A UM and they've both been they've both been fine. I've made some mistakes with not taking proper care probably of them as as I need to. UM. I've had a couple of issues with not getting things clean well enough or soon enough, and that caused some some issues with a couple of guns I've had in the past. UM. But I think either one of those brands produces a good quality muzzleloader. And again it's just figuring out what you know, what you personally like when it comes to a muzzleloader. I like it easy to take out breach plug because it's gonna pain, can be real pain in the butt if you need a tool to take out the breech plug. UM. You know when you have to clean things. So that was one of the things I was looking for when I bought a new muzzleloader a year or two ago. UM that my c v A Optima currently has. I like that about it. UM. I also, if I had the money, I'd like to upgrade to a muzzleloader that has some kind of coding on the barrel to reduce rust and issues like that. UM. My current gun doesn't have that, and I kind of wish i'd upgraded, because anything to minimize the corrosion and issues with rust and junk with a muzzloader, I think is probably if you use it a lot, it's probably worth the money, because that's the biggest pain in the butt with a muzzleloader, is they just so easily, um get impacted by you know, corrosion and all that. So for whatever it's worth, that's one thing I you know, I would think it's worth investigain. So I don't use a gun, so pass pass. What about sun control, We've talked a little bit about that in the past. What kind of stuff do you use, Let's not not clothing related, but you know, in addition to whatever clothing, if you have sent control clothing, what send control measures and products do you like to use? Yeah, I'll just make my personal comment here. I feel that the scent that comes off your body. I don't care what clothing company says that it will do to to it. It may help reduce it or or anything. A majority of your scent comes from your MoU mouth, and unless they have some rebreather type device, you're never gonna be able to eliminate it. So there's my rant on that. But me and you, we both use those onyx. We've talked about it several times on the podcast before. It's science and it uh it it works. I mean I have seen nothing but good results from this product. Uh. Basically, what it does it oxygen goes in and outcomes ozone, which is O three. It's a disruptive molecule, and it's it fades your scent stream. Basically what that means is it just it it does. It makes your scent not your scent. So it's deluded enough to where down wind when a deer smells it smells. What because ozone has a smell and they don't get scooped by it. It catches their attention. But it's not I want to kill you sent I hope I did a good enough job of explaining it. Yeah, yeah, I think so. UM, Yeah, I agree. I mean we, like you said, we've talked about a lot, so I won't rail on it too much more. But I definitely do think it works too. I don't you know. It's not a percent fail proof. It's not gonna help every single time, but it helps. It helps enough that I take it out with me in the tree and I wouldn't go out there without it. Um, if I can, it'll help it. So it use thoseonyx UM. I also use Hunter Specialties scent control products like they're shampoo, they're so, they're laundry detergent. UM. I've with their spray. I I use all those things. So I do the whole scent control regime, shower and scent free so by then wash everything and sent free detergent. I keep all my clothes and a sealed container outside. I don't change into my hunting gear till i'm outside before I'm about to go out hunting. So do all that, and then I spray down with their spray. UM. And you know I use that brand. I think. I think a lot of the brand's work. UM. The only reason why I've been personally using Hunter Specialties right now. Is that maybe four or five years ago, I read a study, a scientific study that showed, UM, they basically wanting to use a whole bunch of different scent control products. And I can't even remember what the actual experiment was, but there was some way they're able to actually see the chemical um changes that happened when this spray was sprayed and something to destroy or whatever it is, to get rid of that scent. Malchule and Hunter Specialties product at that time worked the best. UM. So I've been using it since and it's worked well enough for me. You know, I'm not cent free out there. I still get winded sometimes. UM, but it's dramatically less than it used to be, and it's dramatically less than I think it would be if I didn't do all these different things. So I use those Onyx, I use all the various scent control products from how our specialties. And then also this year I started using nose jammer sometimes, which is the other little trick. But we've been trying recently, UM, and again I think it helps. UM. It's it's not a you know, it's it's not the magic being. It's not gonna cure all your problems. It's not gonna fool a deer's knows all the time, but it's another little thing I can put in my favor. Um. I'm not a good enough hunter to be able to get away with just my pure woodscraft. I immediately need all the things I can get to help me out. So um, nos jammer, something that has some other there's vanilla extract us to some degree. There's some amount of vanilla extract and something else in this product that just kind of fools with the deer's nose enough that it blocks to a degree other sense. So um, between trying to eliminate as much sent as it can and then having this nose jammer that kind of messes with the deer's nose a little bit, and then having ozone, which eliminates more sent I'm doing a whole bunch of crazy things, but it helps. Um. I've had a couple of times where I couldn't have my osans with me, or the battery died once and I've forgotten, I didn't replace it, and I went out there and I didn't have anything, and I sprayed a bunch of nose jammer, and I had a whole bunch of doughs come right down win to me, and I was like, super paranoid. They're a blowout and run the hunt. And they stopped and they smelled it and they're smelling it and smelling it and they just you know, they couldn't figure out what was going on, and they moved on. It was fine. So I've had enough circumstances to know that it's helpful. That's why I use. Everyone has their own ideas and thoughts on it, but I think the most important thing when it comes to scent control is do something you know. Don't don't pretend that you don't need to worry about your scent, because you know, number one, you need to be hunting the wind. You know, keep in mind the wind and do your absolute best to make sure you minimize the amount of times that de are gonna be down wind of you. But you're never gonna get it perfect. Deer don't always follow the playbook, right. They do crazy things, They do things that we don't think they'll do, and inevitably there are going to be deer that end up down wind of view. And if you're not taking care of your scent to some degree or taking some type of measures to eliminate some of that or reduce some of that. You're gonna miss on opportunities. I agree, I can't. I'm gonna I'll put it this way. I have seen so many good results with nose gammer the past two years. I am surprised at what dear I have seen come into my location through my access route because of that product. I'm not here trying to promote it. I'm just saying, give it a try. It's a bottle of it is cheap. Spread on your feet. I sprayed on my legs when you walk in to your stand, and I just I witnessed more dear coming through the same way that I used to access my stand that I feel that it's worth it's worth using. Yeah, that's the same thing that happened to me this year. Is you and a couple of our other friends I'll cut telling me I should try it. And so the first time I ever tried it was the day that I killed my Ohio buck, and he did just that. He walked right at my access trail, walked right where I walked. And usually, especially in Michigan, this is an Ohio off so it's a little bit different but usually if a deer walked across my path, they would spook immediately, but he just walked right in. So so yeah, that's another little thing worth triumph. There's a kind of a running theme here with some of the some of the stuff that we're talking about, and it's this this scientific research that's going into these products. Now where you know, several years ago, you know, even I think he've been up to five maybe six years ago, there wasn't this this innovation or scientific energy put into some of these products, you know what I mean? Yeah, so true. I like that. I like the fact that, yeah, it's especially for people like us who are you know, gear heads to a degree, um, and interested in this stuff. I like being able to see the fact that there was actually some mindful design behind the product, research behind the product. Yeah, um, which I think brings you know, me very I think that circles very well into the next category I want to talk about, which was clothing. Um. And this is one that you and me have bounced back and forth a lot. We've had kind of had our internal debates about things. UM. So I'll share my two cents and I'll be interested to hear years two Um, but I, as probably everybody knows, I wear sick of gear, and I started wearing sick uh five years ago, I think, um I saw. I came across it right when I started Wired to Hunt. I came across a video about the science of camouflage. I think it was called um and it was it was developed by Sick at that time as they were launching their camouflage pattern called optipid, and it talked all about the different different research and design processes that went into developing this camouflage digital camouflage, taking into mind how dear c and how we are positioned when hunt deer and all these different things. UM and this is actually the original opt to F was designed for big game hunting out west, so elk and different things at distance and how dear or how elk and different animals see. And it was fastenating stuff. And so right away I was like, Wow, this is the company that's looking into these types of things. Um. You know, at that time it was just you know, your basic generic camouflage patterns that looked like a bunch of leaves, and this is something that was very different. So I was really interested in it. And as I learned more about them, I became more intrigued because at that time, Siko was the first company that had taken the fabrics and materials and technologies that were really popular and like mountaineering gear and climbing gear, some of these UM, you know, lots of the gore tex type fabrics and things on those lines, UM, and they started applying that to hunting and UM at that time, they were the first people to do that, and so it was like really high tech, closer fitting, UM high performance type clothing that just seemed awesome to me. So I started trying their stuff right after that at and I fell in love with him. And ever since then, I've you know, continue to wear sick. I've been trying all the different things, and since that point, they eventually have become, you know, as everyone knows, a partner of Wire to Hunt. We've developed a relationship, but it's it's rooted in the fact that I really believed in their process of how they went about things, which is really cool. UM And I actually got to spend some time with him last week because I was in Montana and where their headquarters is, and I got to sit down and talk to their you know, product designers and how all these things happen and how it's so rooted in research. UM So that was, you know, fascinating. I won't dive into that too much right now. Um we'll probably talk about some things in the future. Um as we're going to be doing some more stuff with SICKA down the down the road. But I really like their gear, their new white tail stuff that I use this past season. It's awesome. Um. I love the camouflage and I like the fact that everything is designed to all the little things are considered. That's probably my favorite thing about SICK because they they've taken to mind little tiny things, like all little details that matter to me, um are incorporated into the product design. So like on a jacket called the Fanatic jacket, you know, one of the biggest things for a lot of white to hunters how do we stay warm and how do we keep our hands warm but then have easy access to them to draw our bow or you know, get our grunt to or do different things like that. So they've developed this whole fanatical line around keeping your hands warm. So they developed, you know, a jacket that allowed for a kangaroo pocket on the front where you can put both your hands in this kangaroo pocket and keep your hands warm in there. But to do that, they had to do a sideway zipper that comes around. So it's totally different than anything else out there, but it's super functional and I love it now. It's totally different. It was a strange thing at first, but it's something that makes so much sense now. So there's lots of little things like that built into their clothing that I appreciate, um. And that's why I've used it and why i'm you know, I'm very comfortable recommending it to people. But it's also one of those things that cost a lot of money. They're not cheap clothing. Um. And so with that said, you know, my two cents on SIA is that it's not for everyone. You know, if you're a guy that likes to go out there, if you're if you're just getting into hunting and you're gonna go out a couple of times a season, or if you've been hunting your whole life but you just go out for opening weekend of guns season or whatever it is. You know, something like that maybe isn't the right way to use your money, because that's it's a pretty big investment. Um. But for a guy like me who's out there hunting sixties seventy days a year or more, um, and he was gonna be hunting in the hottest days and the coldest days, and the wet days and the windy days. UM. For me, it makes sense that that's a worthwhile investment because I'm using it so much and it needs something that's gonna allow me to stay out there and perform at the best of my ability. So that's why I've been using SICKA and why I like it. UM. But I know that you wear some different gear and you like what you used to. So what's uh, what's your taking what you're using? Dan? Before I jump into something, Mark, I'm gonna be honest and I'm gonna tell you that you have sparked my interest in I'll put you this way. This is where most of my offseason focus has been in looking at different types of gear. Okay, we had we had this. We had a conversation when you came down to shed Hunt. We had a conversation at the A T A show in the hotel room. Um, and you sparked my interest one thing about science and functionality of specific you know of Sitka and a lot of the quote unquote popular uh camel patterns and even Predator Like I'm a I'm a huge fan of Predator camel. Love the pattern. The owners of the company are awesome. Like it's just when I when I look up into a tree into the in in the fall, I see predator camel, but the deer don't have human eyes. So I've been doing I read into how Sitka makes their you know, cameo, the research and development and studies that have gone into it. I've recently just been um reading and researching about a company called Cryptic Cameo and the research and development that they've put into their camera pattern, doing studies on the human eye and and how it focuses on specific camel patterns. That So that's kind of intriguing. And knowing that I'm going to have to go out into the west here this fall with no tree stand and no no real cover other than maybe hiding behind a tree, I'll be on the ground, So my cameo is more important, you know, I'm debating internally of what I should do. Another thing that that I've I've looked into is the functionality. Now, what you get with the mossy oaks and the real trees. For the this part, you get the pattern, you get the coat, you get the t shirt, you get the you know, the I don't I don't want to say poor Man's but a more affordable camera pattern. That's just I don't know, it's just the camera pattern. There's not a lot of insulation or or or functionality or science that goes into keeping you warm or keeping you cool or you know, waking away sweat or keeping the wind out like these other companies, especially Sick of Gear and in their background with Gortex. But it's like I'm I'm starting to I'm starting I love science and I love when a question can be answered, why does this product work better than this product? Well, here's some research, some scientific background to tell you why. So that's that's what That's what I really like. Well, we're gonna have to have lots of long conversation is off there about that stuff and um, because there's lots lots of stuff there, and UM, I don't want to harp on it too much, but this last week was just even more I opening to get the background about how this stuff is developed by um by Seka, who's who I use um, but you know, again, everyone's gonna have their own opinions on that. Um. That's why I use. But there are you know, admittedly, there's other companies that are starting to get into the game with some of the better, higher quality materials too. So UM, you know, there's plenty of other brands out there check out. Again, it's gonna come down to what fits and feels right for you. But I would definitely recommend at least you know, doing some research. Um. You know, again, don't make your purchase decision on some of these high dollar things like bows or guns or big sets of camouflage gear just because so and so on TV wears it. Um, i'd encourage you to, or even if because I recommend it, regardless of that, I'd encourage you to to really dive in the There's so much available online now you can read and learn a lot about this stuff. UM, So take that extra money and learn about it. Um, because I think, get that's very enlightening, And I worry that lots of times we just a lot of people just buy something because their favorite so and so person wears it, And sometimes that's not gonna end up, you know, being a purchase decision that you'll be happy about down the road. Um. So with these high dollar automs, high dollar items take the time to learn. So I just want to elaborate one thing, especially in the Midwest, if you were a tree stand hunter, depending on where, if you're hunting a field edge, maybe not as much, but the way I hunt in in the Midwest, on my hunting properties, I have recently gone to wearing solid brown pants and having one solid color as my um as my pants, and then i'd wear like a Predator jacket, or if it was cold, I would wear a double stuffed hooded sweatshirt. And my thought is, if you are still, you don't need cam flage in the timber. It's kind of a fail safe at times. And it's it's it's reassuring knowing that you have camo on, but deer pickup movements so well if especially if they're if their body language is tense, that your camel pattern won't matter if you get busted. I mean, I've I've worn Predator, I've worn real Tree, I've worn mossy yoak, and I've been busted every you know, wearing every one of those patterns. So I just feel that if you do it right, you don't really need cameo. I'm not telling you to wear a rainbow jacket into the timber with you know that's bedazzled because that's your that's your usual attire when you're that's my that's my day job attire. Right, Yeah, no, I understand what you're saying. I think, um, you know, there's a lot to be said for the fact that you know, if you do all the other things right, you're gonna have the need for camouflages is less if you can avoid a deer looking up into the trade all. You know, I definitely think there's advantages to having camouflaged if a deer is looking up in your direction. But of course that's the worst case scenario. So you know, cross your teas and dot your eyes first and hopefully that will lesson your need for it. But I'm still gonna go with something that I know can can save the day when I do screw up and make and you're comfortable, yes, because how many how many times have we sit sat in a tree and you're you're either wearing so many layers because your camel flies jacket is just it's just a pattern, and you got six or seven other layers on and you're just not comfortable. You're either too hot or worse yet, you're too cold. And no, I I don't want to make this too much of a plug for a for SICKA, but since I've been using it, I really get I don't have that issue because it's like smart layering for the right environment. And um that's I like it because it allows me to stay out in any kind of conditions. I'm out there, I'm super comfortable, and I know that my gear isn't gonna be the reason why I don't have success. I'm never worried that I'm going to have an issue where I'm too loud, or I get too cold and I have to leave, or sweating too much. Um. And I'm just confident in because of that. So I think we should move on from that. We've talked enough about it. UM. But it's interesting to hear hopeful. It's interesting here our perspectives and experience of those things. UM. I definitely like the high performance clothing brands now. I think if you can afford it and you hunt enough, that's a worthwhile investment. Just you know, people spend a thousand dollars or more in their bow. Um, if you're gonna be hunting sixty for forty or thirty days a year, I think what you wear out there is just as important as your thousand dollar bow. So you know that kind of investment, if you're gonna use it and last a long time, it's a big part of you know, being able to stay out there in the woods is a big part of success. So so what about footwear, that's kind of the final piece of our clothing. UM. I have worn one brand of hunting boots since I was like twelve, I think, Um, I've been using hold on one second, Dan, I've got a phone buzzing here that's going to be a distracting and I don't know even where it is. There's a phone, big deal. UM. I have been wearing Lacrosse boots since I was like twelve years old or fifteen years old or something. It's just because like that was what my family used maybe if somewhere somewhere on that age. UM, and they've just worked for me. They've just kept me warm, kept me dry, occasionally had you know that the occasional issues just like you'll have with any boots, but just overall, I've had a really positive experience with them. So right now I'm wearing the Lacrosse Arrowhead and those are you know, your your high rubber boots. But what's pretty cool about them is that it's a combination of rubber or some kind of rubber and a neoprene upper. Um that just makes it fit your foot a lot differently than some of the other rubber boots I've warned from them in and from them in the past, and just makes it super comfortable. Um. It kind of holds your ankle in the back of your foot and there a little bit more, and I've excuse me, has just been great for walking, like when I'm going deep, when I'm hiking deep into a stand, Um, they just stick to my foot in a much more comfortable way. UM. So that's the boot I'm wearing it, and now I've been very happy with it. UM. I guess you know, regardless of brand, I've always liked having the kind of knee high rubber boots. UM, both because I want to be able to walk through streams and things and not worry about it, and because you know, to a degree they hold less sent so you know, the minimum that's what i'd recommend and my current boot of choices they are arrowhead from across UM, but from a boot standpoint, and that's when I'm rocking. What about you, Well, my my muddy, my muddy conditions, my extreme cold conditions. I'm I'm using a pair of muck boots, the rubber boot um that you can roll down when you're walking in so that heat escapes and then I get to my stand and then UM, I can roll them back up. Don't have to worry about my feet getting wet. Uh. The only issue with that is it's once you're up in the stand, uh and depending on the weather, the it can It's not the best. I mean it's not it's not the best. I I wear them because I don't want my feet to get wet when I'm crossing a creek or a stream and then I pretty much just tough it out or you know. I wear a pair of wool socks and a ton of adhesive UH foot warmers for for I mean this this November, this pass November was freezing cold during the rut and UH I went through about forty seven thousand adhesive body warmers and foot foot things. But UM, early season, I mean, I'm wearing a pair of old hiking boots just because is purely for comfortable, you know, comfortable. I don't even know the brand, maybe Wolverine. I bought them at a I bought him at like a farm King or a Tyson's Um. But my main hunting boot, in the hunting boot that I wore out to Nebraska was Danner Prong Horns, and they are very comfortable and very you know, they're they're broken in right now, really well, and uh they work. They worked just fine for me, and I wear it when they get cold out, when it gets cold out, and I'll put if I don't have to cross the currieck or if I'm hunting up high, I'll uh, you know, plenty of room for extra socks if need be very good. Yeah, yeah, I am. Your rubber boots, your muck boots. Do you not have like a version that's got some kind of installation in there? Yeah, I do have. I do have the insulation. But this this winter or this rut in Iowa was so cold. I mean it was thirteen degrees for two days, three days in a row. Yeah, when that cold front came through, I don't care. I mean unless I'm wearing some kind of arctic gear. Your feet are gonna get cold. Yeah, it's it's tough in those kinds of conditions. I definitely recommend, you know, with the rubber the rubber boots, to get ones that have some type of like insulate insulation in them, or you know, if you've got the neoprene boots that um, you get the thicker neoprene. Like for me with the arrowheads, there's a couple of different thickness levels and uh, I use the thickest one. I think it's eight millimeters maybe, um. And that helps because cold feet is one of those things that can drive you out of the woods, and for me, it's anything I can do to stay in the woods, I'm gonna do it. So right, So let's foot where um we're going. We're kind of going pretty long here, so maybe we've got to wrap things up pretty quickly. What about trail cameras. That's something we have not talked about. It's a popular gear to topic. What trail cameras are you using? Well, I'll tell you, I'm glad. I'm glad we're going to cover this topic because there are so many different types of trail cameras out there. I have used moultries. I have used reckonics, which I spent I think, and then it was stolen, so that made me upset, and then it made me realize that what I use trail cameras for are to get pictures and to locate deer. So if a trail camera picture can if a trail camera can take a picture when a deer walks in front of it and the trigger speed is sufficient enough to catch it in the frame. So I know what bucket is, so I know that I can make a decision to go after it. It's fine for me right now. I have all covert trail cameras and I've gotten those for free from the past UH dealings that I was with and I also had to pay for a couple of them discount of price, so so they work very well. Um they they also I also have one of those show cameras that sends stuff to your phone, but there sends pictures to your phone, but you have to have cell phone service in that area and the places where I want, you know, that would work for me. I have no cell phone service, so it's kind of obsolete. I don't run a lot of video so I really don't care about the video aspect of it. I want a picture from the trail camera showing what buck is in the area, what buck hits the scrape. It's over what buck is eating out of this mineral pile that I that I put up, you know here in the next couple of weeks. That's all I want. So there's trail cameras out there that are from sixty bucks to six hundred bucks even more than that that can do that job. So for me, in the position that I'm in, the next time I go to buy a trail camera, I'm probably gonna look for the cheaper on the cheaper end. Yeah, I can understand that. Um. I've kind of gotten to a point where I'm sort of similar to you too, UM, in that you know where things are from me right now, the way I use trail cameras, UM, is similar to you. I just needed to get a picture, and I need to know if the general quality of general basics of that dear. I need to be able to see the body. You know, how old is it a general idea of you know what, dear? Is this or is this a dear I've seen before? Whatnot? Um? And I also don't have a whole lot of money I can use on to spend on trail cameras. I actually don't think I've ever got well, I think I've gotten one trail camera for free in the past. Um, but overall, I probably I probably bought like ten to fifteen cameras myself. Yeah. Um, so what I've been trying to do when I'm buying this camera to get a camera that like the worst I've I've tried the super cheap ones. And the worst thing is when you put a camera up and then you get back there a week or two weeks or three weeks later and the thing hasn't taken any pictures, or it took like twenty and they're all black. Um. It's like, there's nothing like more depressing to me than being super pumped up about a trail camera poll and then you get there and there's no pictures. So I hate that. I don't even want to talk about it because I am literally getting fired up in my seat right now because I'm thinking about times that that's happened to me. It's horrible. It's horrible. Um, It's like you woke up Christmas morning in Santa Let you nothing but coal. So so what I've tried to do is I've kind of looked for that minimum threshold where I can get a camera that I feel like it's gonna get me a good enough picture, but it is going to avoid the constant failure or the significant risk of failure. Um So, for me at this point, you know, with what I can afford and the number of cameras I like to have, I need a lot of cameras, or I'd like to have a lot of cameras because I hunt a lot of different properties. Um So you know you hunt mainly one core property. Um I've got you know, five nine different properties I'm trying to hunt, So I like to have a decent number cameras to spread that around. So for me, that sweet spot has been like the hundred and fifty two hundred dollar range is where I feel like it's a good enough camera that I'm not worried about failure. But um, I'm not spending the five or six hundred dollars per camera, which those are great cameras, It's just not what I need right now and what I can afford right now. Um So, the brand, the two brands that I personally had the most experience with UM are Moultrie and Bushnell UM. I've also used wild game innovations and covert cameras and I think one other one but I can't think of it off the top of my head. But right now and cutting back, I've got a cutting back to UM. And you know, there's plenty of good options, but the two I've enjoyed the most have been Maultry and Bushnell. My my like, my go to is the Bushnell UM for me, the basic Bushnell Trophy camp. It just works. UM. I'm not always getting the absolutely most perfect picture. It's not always you know, the fanciest, but it just works for me. So I've got more Bushnel Trophy cams than anything else. If someone were to ask me, what camera would you recommend? That's like my safe bet go to, So you know, take into account. You know, like all these things, you gotta research, you gotta figure out what the right thing is for you. If you're buying one trail camera and you're only gonna use one trail camera and you want to get great pictures, you might want to buy one of the more expensive models of one of these different brands UM. But if you're going to be using a bunch for like overall surveillance and trying to get a basic idea of what's going on. You know, I think that sweet spot, somewhere in that hundred and fifty two range, at least from what I found, is maybe where you need to be looking to be somewhat affordable. It's still you know, that's still not cheap um, but it's it's more affordable. And I think that when you get to that level, you avoid like the at least what I've seen, you're avoiding the junk level, and you're getting the point where it's pretty safe. So that's my two cents on it, right And there's like, there's a point where I don't care how many megapixels the camera takes. Eight megapixels seems to eight to twelve, you know, twelve the highest I have right now is twelve takes awesome pictures. Eight megapixels also takes great pictures, and it's cheaper than the twelve. So it's it's one of those things where I feel there's a threshold that's reached where anything over a certain amount just is insignificant and it doesn't even really matter. And and It's one of those things where if you have it's how you hunt and how you use your trio cameras that you should ask yourself, is this specific feature worth the extra dollar amount? Yeah? Agree, And it just comes down to, like you said, how you're using your cameras, what's important to you, and that probably goes for just basically everything we've talked about exactly that's said, are there any other categories of gear that you think we should cover? You know, I think we've covered a majority of the in your face, Um, I tell you last year I stepped up to our heavier arrow. Um, I I shoot eighty pounds, and it's not because I want to be some bad assets. Because I can pull back eighty pounds. I feel comfortable doing it, so why not. So because of that, I decided I want to I want to pick up a really really heavy arrow and get as much kinetic energy as possible because I've had situations in the past where I didn't get the penetration that I needed and that resulted in a buck not dying. So that's why I decided to pick up UM. The Eastern UH full metal jackets is what I'm shooting. So they are they're like driving a semi. I mean it's they hit hard. Nice nice. Yeah, I think there's something to be said about, you know, paying attention to the penetration that an arrow can get and the kinetic energy you can you can get with that arrow, and you're set up um for me. When it comes to arrows, it's been that's another one of like legacy products. Like I've been shooting Carbon Express arrows since I started bow hunting, and they've just worked for me, and I just have developed a trust with them. And they also seem to be a company that's consistently been upping the antie like that. Every year they've got something new and and um something technology technologically sound that it's always continue to push arrows in the right direction from my perspective at least. So I've been really happy with those products, you know, for the last ten fifteen years or however long it's been fifteen, sixteen years, I don't know. Um. So right now I'm shooting the Carbon Express Maxima reds and they just they group tight. I just noticeably could see a difference when I from my previous arrows from them too to switching to those. It just it really helped my my groups. So I've been happy with those still using them. And I'm sure I'll keep evolving what arrows I choose and it will change with my different bow setups to um. But for me, that's something that I trust, I have been happy with. So what about broadheads. We haven't talked about broadheads. That seems everyone gets fired off about. Man, there's so many different broadheads out there, and I'll tell you right now, I don't use rage broadheads because everybody else uses rage broadheads. I hate their commercials and I'm just like, they're just like it's like throwing an axe through an animal, Like I don't. I don't like it. I don't like there's you talk to. Everybody you talked to, they either love rage or they freaking hate Rage. There's there's nobody I've ever talked to that's like, uh yeah, Rage, They're okay. They either hate them or they love them. So for that reason, I just don't don't use them. I don't. I don't know why I brought that up, but it's just something that I see their commercials all the time. I'm just like, anyway, I'm about to blow your mind, you're shooting rage I am that guy who does not hate them but does not love them. You, my friend, are one in a million people. You're wow, nice to meet you. Yeah, I'm glad I could be the first. You know. That's It's another one of those things that for me, I guess I'm kind of you know, as much that I'd like to push things technologically, I also have like some degree of just comfort with things. And once I get comfortable with something, if it's worked for me, I'm hesitant to change it unless there's something like super super compelling that pushes me. So when it comes to Rage, like I just started shooting Rage a long time ago, probably because the commercials, and I don't particularly care for it now either. Um, but it's just what I shot and it just worked me and I love the blood trails. Um. But like I I want to change. I think I want to try something else, but I just haven't. Um. So I'm waiting for someone to wow me with a reason why I really need to try something else. And I probably will try some different things because I know the inherent risk of something like an expandable like Rage is you know, if you get that shoulder blade shot or something, you're just not gonna You're not gonna get the penetration um. But as long as I can put the arrow where it needs to go, I do feel very confident if I put it in the right place, that thing is going to tear a big hole in it and that will do the job. So with a majority of broadhage, yeah, yeah, exactly. If you put in the right place, it doesn't matter. So I've used I'm I'm currently using spitfire an ap spitfires. I went away from them because there was a there was a product out there called Epic Broadheads. It was all the blades were completely enclosed in the housing. That company never gained traction. They're out of business, and in my opinion, one of the best broadheads and one of the best new technology to ever come to the archery hunting industry in a very long time. They didn't have the money to properly you know, my opinion is they didn't have the money to properly market the product. I think another thing is they had too many chieves, not enough Indians type of type of deal and and they might have been outdone in the marketing standpoint from some of the other big, big name companies. So that you know, that's the example I mentioned earlier. But like you said, and especially for my arrow set up, my broad head is a spitfire, my arrow is a full metal jacket. I'm using Blazer veins, and I just feel comfortable with that set up in the way my bow shoots. That It's one of those things in the back of your head every time you enter the timber part of hunting is feeling comfortable and feeling confident in that hunt, knowing that when the moment comes, you're gonna you're gonna kill. And it's even it's a mental game. Your gear has to play in with that as well. I think, oh yeah, there's so many things that can go wrong in a hunt. I want to know that everything that I'm bringing out there with me will not cause an issue. I need to have full confidence in it, just like you said, because we put so much time, so much effort, so much of ourselves into this that a gear failure is it's unacceptable. So and I don't give gear. I typically don't give gear second chance if it fails. It's probably true for a lot of people. Yeah, I think, um, I think that's where a lot of and and sometimes it's a good thing. Sometimes it's a bad thing though too right, because if if a one time issue might sour the overall reputation of a product for that person, Um, when maybe you know nine times that ten, that's a great product and would work better than all the others you tried. But yeah, that's that's just human nature. I guess would judge things based on our own personal anc donal experiences. So UM that said, even though I do shoot, jumping back to the broadhead thing, even though I do shoot a rage, I did use um a Muzzy tro Car fixed blade to go out elk hunting, and that worked really well for me. It flew real nice. I had a four yard shot at my elk and UM got full penetration blew through them, and I've been happy with that. So that's something I have will be using probably out West again this year. And I'm continuing to experiment with fixed blades. I need to. I think I want to try some different fixed blades and see what works for me. So that's something I'll continue to explore. And that's definitely one thing that this new Western hunt that we're going on in September, I I'm in. I'm in complete research mode right now, because I still have a ton of gear I have to get for this trip, and I'm I'm doing my research. I'm not I'm not using anybody else's real opinion on a purchase except for you know, someone who I can trust, or my own research, my own, my own experiences. Yeah, it's a that's a fun but sometimes stressful process, especially when you're gearing up for something totally new, like you are in big it's a big deal. If your gear doesn't work out there, you're not hunting. I mean, you're you're walking back to your truck, right And this is your once a year, you know, or for some people, once in a lifetime opportunity to go out on a big Western hunt or something like that. Um, you know, in those cases or any you know, for any situation, but especially that kind of situation. Um, if your gear is the reason why you're not successful, UM, that's just to me, it's unacceptable. You just can't have something that's going to keep you from reaching whatever your goals are. Um. But you know, we all kind of learned as we go, and that's an evolving process of figuring out what will work and what won't. So hopefully, hopefully us rambling here for an hour and a half sharing our own personal opinions, hopefully that helps a little bit. Um. I think it's safe to say that anything we've talked about here, you might have different opinions on it, you might have different experiences with it, um, But at least you will know that two guys, your two friends, Mark and Dan, at least you'll know that these are a couple of things we trust and that we've had success with. And if that's helpful at all to you, UM, I hope that that will, at least, you know, helps a few of your decisions in the future. At least maybe we'll give you some things to think about when you're making some decisions of your own. So what I would like is to hear from you guys on what products may have worked good for you, because I am I'm the type of person where, yeah, I I feel comfortable with certain items, but if there's a product out there that will work better than what I currently have, I'm all for it. Yeah. Yeah, we definitely will look to hear that it's It's gear is one of those things that we love to debate. People always love to debate the different merits and so I would love to hear everyone's perspective. Feel free to go to wired hunt dot com slash episode fifty two. If there's something that you really want to share with us, a piece of gear that we didn't mention at all, or maybe something we did mention you disagree with us, we'd love to hear it or hit us up on Twitter or Facebook. Two. Um, and I think one other quick thing before we wrap up. Um, but I think all the gear in the world, all the most expensive gear in the world, won't make a lick of difference if you're not doing the other things related to the hunt itself right in the first place. So don't ever look at gear or expensive gear, fancy gear, whatever, some special product. It's never gonna be the the cure all. It's never going to solve all your problems. It's never going to be a crutch. Um. You need to be hunting smart, you need making the right decisions, and you need to be working hard. And if you do those things, then all of your gear can can help you. And making sure you make the right decisions with gear can make sure that that gear doesn't, you know, create an unnecessary failure. But don't look as it. Don't look at it as something that's gonna, you know, make or break your success. More so, you should be doing all the right things first and then gear should just work. Ye. So I daan, that's my two cents on gear. Let's shut her down. Let's shut her down. So my wife water just broke. She did. No, that's that would be cool. I'd be cool if we ended the story is like, gotta go, water just broke. That would be a heck of an ending. For a second there, my jaw dropped, was like, seriously, that just happened. Um, but heck, maybe we will have a baby story next week. That'd be pretty cool. There is a chance that by the time this episode is there, this episode here is there's a Dan Junior running around Dallas fort Worth Jr. Is that what you're gonna name him? Yep? Dallas Dallas fort Worth Johnson. Oh man, that's good. That's awesome. Do you believe me? I really do. I can see you doing that for sure, you would do that. I would. But my wife, your wife, that's always the wild card, isn't it. All Right? We broke a personal record for the longest podcast today, so we better get get out of here. We gotta shut this down. So if you want any more information or links to some of the things we talked about, there's some different articles I've written in the past and wired to Hunt to talk about some of these things. We will have links to those things at wired to hunt dot com. Slash episode fifty two. And you know, we mentioned this a lot, but if you've been enjoying the show and you haven't done this yet, we have a small favorite ask if you could lay leave us a rating or review on iTunes. It's a huge help. Um, that's how people decide whether or not to try giving the Wired to Hunt podcast to try, and when they see your honest reviews there, it really helps them figure out, you know, is this worth an hour of my time? Hopefully this has been worth your time lots of times, so we appreciate you, you know, leaving that honest rating review on iTunes. Also, as always, we would like to thank our partners who do help make this show possible. Um, it's not you know, it takes a lot of time, it takes money, it takes energy to keep this thing coming up every week and all the other things we do on Wired Hunt. So big props to these companies for stepping up and helping that actually be possible. So thank you too, Sick of Gear, Trophy, Ridge Bear Archery, Redneck Blinds, Hunt, Terra Maps, Osonics, Carbon Express, Lacrosse Boots, and the White Tail Institute of North America. And finally, and most importantly, thank you to all of you guys and girls joining us today. Your time, your support, your feedback, all of it. We just appreciate it so much. So have an awesome week, enjoy some time in the great outdoors, and stay wired to hunt.

Save this episode