00:00:02 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm your host, Mark Kenyon, and this is episode number fifty Tay. In the show, we're exploring the changing dynamics and motivations of the deer hunting world, and we're joined by outdoor filmmakers Dustin Lutt and Aaron Hitchens. All Right, welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast. As I mentioned earlier, this is episode number fifty. Can you believe that? Not only that, but we're also recording this episode exactly one year to the date since our first episode launched. And wow, it's uh, it's been a heck of a year since. And and that said, I want to take a quick second to simply thank all of you for joining us on this crazy ride. You know your support and feedback, and you know the time that you've spent listening to us. It's meant the world. So thank you so much for making the first year of the Wired Hunt podcast such a success. Now, given that it's our one year anniversary, it made sense that this episode we should take on a topic of special importance, and we decided to do just that. So joining us today are Dustin Lutt and Aaron Hitchens of Rock House Motion, one of the most innovative and inspirational filmmaking teams in the outdoor industry right now, and these guys are jumping on the line to speak with us about their most recent film, Game of Inches. In this film, which if you haven't seen yet you should, dives deep into the changing dynamics of the deer hunting community and the dividing camps of trophy hunters and meat hunters. So today we're gonna discuss all of this and much more. But before all that, Mr co host Dan Johnson, how's life treating you today? So you know it's pretty good. Typically on an anniversary, Uh, I guess the man takes the woman out for a nice dinner. Um, So, because this is our fiftieth one year anniversary, does this mean that you're going to take me out for a nice dinner because you're the host and I'm just I'm just the co host. Well, I'm glad we know who wears the pants in this relationship, Dan, Right, we got that out of the way without an argument, So that's that's good, just waiting, just waiting for a nice steak dinner. We could probably make that happen, or I can send you a picture of the steak I'll be getting tonight. Maybe that for something. It will just make me extremely jealous, and then I probably won't talk to you like a real marriage. That sounds like a lot of relationships. Oh yeah, but that's pretty crazy. Fifty episodes, that's a lot. We've been talking a lot, we have. I've probably talked to you more than well pretty probably anyone except for my wife the last year. That's all right, hey, at least you know. The thing about it is we've we've covered a lot of topics, but we really haven't. I mean, there's so much more to talk about, and uh, I'm looking forward to you two. Yeah, me too. It's uh, it's neat. You know, I wonder when we started this whole thing, you know, will there be things to talk about, you know, a year from now or two years from now. And you know, like you said, we've put fifty hours in or probably more than fifty hours is a lot of our episodes over an hour um, and there's still a ton of ground to cover. So that's a good thing for the podcast. It's a good thing for you and me since we love talking about this stuff, and hopefully it's a good thing for everybody listening, UM, because I hope and I think there'll be a lot of really cool topics that we're gonna be diving into over the coming weeks and months, and uh, you know, who knows what two thousand fifteen is gonna bring. It's uh already off to a great start, and I can't wait to see what what this season has in store, right, I mean, we already have a lot of things that that are planned for us to do, so we can talk about, oh yeah, some exciting plans, some exciting hunts, some great trips and lessons learned. For sure, we'll be coming up along the way too. So so that said today that we're going to talk about kind of a higher umbrella topic of some of the changing dynamics UM in the hunting world, in the hunting community. And I'm really excited about that because I think this is an important thing to discuss, UM, And I know you've got some opinions on these things, and I definitely have some opinions and perspectives that I want to share. UM. And I think our guests, Dustin Aaron are really gonna be able to give us a neat perspective as well, given you know, their own hunting backgrounds, and given the time they spent putting together this film Game of Inches, which covers a lot of these themes. Uh So you know, overall, I'm pretty stoked for for this chat. And um, I don't know, it's going to be a fun hour. Yeah. That seems to be uh um. I see everywhere online it seems to be you know, some meat eating revolutions going on, is what they're calling it, or like a wild game eating revolution you kill your own uh you kill your own food type of revolution. I don't know about it. It's just it makes me. It's like guys like me and you, we've been doing it almost our whole lives. I don't know if it would fall under the revolution type of category, but there is definitely some buzz going on, that's for sure. Yeah. I think what a lot of that is referring to is that people outside of the hunting community are starting to take notice of what we've been doing for a long time and realizing that there really is some merit to it. I think that's what a lot of this is about. And you know, we'll probably dive into this later on in more detail, But me personally, UM, I'm all for anyone who wants to start, you know, enjoy of the things we've been enjoying our whole lives. Anyone who wants to learn more about that and get involved and find out about how great it is to to kill your own food and to eat meat that you have, um, you know, harvested and prepared yourself. I think that's an awesome thing. And I'm personally all for, you know, welcoming anyone who's interested into the family, um because I think you know, we're a minority hunters are in general, and the more people can get um that kind of understand why we love this so much, I think that's a good thing. So uh, I'm sure we'll dive into it more once we get Aaron and Dust on the line, but I'm excited to have that conversation. YEA, looking forward to it. So I guess that said, do you think we we have anything else to cover before we get Aaron and Dust on the line. No, Um, other than when you're gonna buy me dinner, I think we should probably get those guys on the phone. All right, we can, we can. We can talk steak later. For now, let's get let's get Aaron dusted on the phone. Sounds good. All right on the line with us is Dustin Lutt and Aaron Hitchens. Welcome to show, guys. Thank you. Yeah, we were just talking a couple of minutes ago just about how timely we think this topic that we're gonna be discussing today is and how you guys are really going to be great people to talk to about this, giving giving your work, putting together a game of inches and and everything really that that film was themed around. I think it's it's just an important thing for us to really dive into here. But you know, before we get into all that um, for those who maybe aren't familiar with the two of you, could you both give us a little bit of an introduction to who you are in some of your background and then maybe a little bit about what you do and what exactly Rock House Motion is and maybe Dustin you can start with for us. Yeah, no problem. Uh. Dustin Latt, I'm originally from South Dakota, moved down to Kansas here three years ago and kicked off rock house motion with Matt White Um brought on Aaron and our specialty is always been in the outdoor um films and commercial work. And uh yeah, I've been hunting ever since I was a little kid and always had that passion and truly blessed me doing what I'm doing. Um, and you want to chime in on that. Yeah, I grew up in rural Ontario, up northern Canada, and I grew up hunting from you know, like like most of a small young age. But it was never super specific as far as is what my passion was. It was a mixture of waterfowl and deer hunting and turkey hunting, small game and fishing, and I just dive always had a passion for being outside and making the most of the time that I can spend out at a round. And so deer hunting for me, you know, I'm sure we'll get into this later on, but deer hunting for me was very very much different than it is than it is now and here now that I've also moved to Kanadas And as far as what I do rockcast and dust as a rockcast overall, like from a higher level for those of you less familiar we do basically premium brain creations and just create a branding content creation within the outdoor space as well as what I call the real life space of the mainstream media. And we we make spells, we take photos, we tell stories, we write, we design which we create. We just try and try and make people's day better with the work that we do. That's awesome. Well, you guys are certainly doing a good job of it. Um. You know, I first got to know Matt White probably five years ago and ever since then and I saw him starting to work with you, Dustin and now Aaron. Um, the things you guys have been producing over at Rockhouse have just been incredible, and you really are producing some of the absolute best stuff in the industry, whether it's the outdoor industry or the real life industry. Um, it's it's some really incredible stuff. So that being the case, I wanted to talk about, you know, one of those most recent pieces of content you guys put together, which was a Game of Inches. It's this recent film that you guys have put out last year that really is is an incredible piece of work and very timely and focused on a great topic. Before we dive into that theme, though, can you guys give us just a high level overview of just what the film is about in general, and maybe how you guys came to producing this film. Um, for those that haven't seen it yet, hopefully everyone will go ahead and take a look and watch that film after this, But for those that haven't seen it yet, just to set the stage, UM, maybe Aaron, can you start us off with a brief overview of what Game of Interest is about, and then from there maybe talk about how it all came to be. Well, Game of Inches is really a very relevant story, not just for the industry, for ourselves. We were looking last ball at making a film about white tail honey, and it became pretty immediately apparent that the way that Dustin did, like tell hunting in the way that I did, we're very different. Dustin comes from a situation where he's got an incredible track record of harvesting matured the air and managing his property and and hunting deer basically, you know, in the most labor intentive and successful way possible, very very textbook. You know, your q d M A overall just doing it, doing it sort of by by the book. Whereas I grew up hunting deer because it's what what we did in November, and we it was a time to suspend with family and friends and you know, beautiful time the year to be in the woods. But we as far as the dear you know, we do it. We could told to make sure that we had d a round, but when it came down to season, we had very h We were not very choosy as far as the animals that we we harvested. So whenever it came came time, Ford sues in a roll around, we're looking at making a deer film and dust In the transplant from Nebraska and myself were transplant from rural rural Onto in Canada. We had great different views about how we were going to hunt each spot and what our goals were with each spot and what people wanted to see n f film. And what we sort of realized is that the views that we harbored personally, we're sort of the anchor points for two very different parts of the in viatdooring in extream in general, and so what we decided to do is do our own personal lenses. We had the luxury of having those extreme viewpoints and being able to you know, to go through a very real and genuine experience sort of on behalf of of of what I would consider be a relatively divided group of people and and sort of watch out of season unfolded and as an unfold it was, you know, it was a pre excellent experience. So there's a fun hunting season. Spent a lot of them understand filming and and hunting, and I would film us and that's would felt the Matto film, both of us and he and his families are so located us hunting in a lot of areas that we wouldn't have had access to. So that's that's a major part of the story that it doesn't come across in the film. But we we just sort of took our own experience isn't and tried to bring them to the screens as we sort of our our view on hunting and deer hunting it's itself evolved over the course of the season, and we fad would sort of sort of look for the common ground that we could find and then came to realize that the common ground is pretty substantial at the end of the day. That's awesome. Is there anything more you'd add to that? Dustin H. Yeah, I guess this hunt happened. Oh. I would say a half year after we brought Aaron on. It was our first gear season hunting to get hunting together. Um. My passion has always been white tails, so we'd had the conversation quite a bit leading up to it. Um, Aaron always being a gun hunter in the past and me growing up as a trophy bow hunter. Um ever since a little kid with my dad, and that's never changed. Um. So talking about the differences and going out and hunting, and I'm always very serious, very cautious when I go out. Aaron, uh likes to have a good time and joke around, and I got to enjoy that quite a bit. At the same time, it got on the nerves quite a bit at the same time. Um. And it was a good experience. And like Aaron said, um, you know, in the end of it, we had the same Um I guess, the same thoughts and same passion at the very end when it comes down to it. But um, our differences were very obvious throughout the season, especially being the tree, and yeah, it was well well worth the experience. That's very real. Like the differences are were very real. It's not like, oh, let's contrive this cute little, this cute little opposite story. It was. It was really walking into the stand and I would pull out at Canada militant and most general and just make it rain and so and Dustin. Dustin would look at me like, oh you know I'm doing and I'd be in that. I'd be semen and like some man squirrels and stuff, because it's to me, it's like with some earlier when I have fun. But uh yeah, we definitely did a few points is to have a maximized the experience that was very real. I don't want anyone to think that it wasn't because it was. And I think that that really left a lot of power to the story. So so that you know, tying into that this was your first season or that you know the season filmed in Game of Inches, was your first season hunting in this kind of area are And it sounded like, can you tell us about what that first you know, a couple hunts or a few weeks hunting Kansas was like I imagine it was quite a quite a difference from what you're used to. I mean, the big difference is that deer hunting in Kansas is that you see deer like that was this tremendous, tremendous change right like I was. I guess I killed five or six year you know in my hunting lifetime before I come down here, and I had a pretty good string of luck. You know, I didn't reatively successful and uh and I'm not afraid to treat it to luck at all. You know. I get in the right place the right time, and you made the most of my opportunity to coming down here. You know, every like at home, every time that I saw a deer, I shot at it. Every time if I saw a deer. There was no like evaluation, there was no consideration. It was safety of process, settle and just started raising. Came with the thirty on thick and like and and we usually had a hind of tight woods and still on the ground, you know, having from the ground affair. But we would understand so we do we do deer drives and and usually things were moving in fast paced so you see adea you act immediately and taking a step back in Kansas and being able to be a spectator was incredible, you know, spending the amount of time that I did with gear and seeing me and do you know, it's nothing to see a half dozen deer instead or dug in deer. And you know, it was one of my first six I saw more deer here than I had hunting my entire lifetime in one you know, three hour three out a time in the stand. So that's that's just an incredible change of pace that's truly unfathomable, Like you can't wrap your head around it. And even as I go home and tell friends and family or you know what nings like, even with footage of back up, like they really can't believe the way that the way that it works. And obviously the animals here intelligence are john but I just don't think that the level of and I mean that this is not going to be a popular comment, but I don't think that the level of like top to bottom absolute terror exists within them. Like up north, you know, we have wolves, we have a lot of prenusation, We have a crazy amount of wild hung pressure during the two weeks of the season, so there's like you can't get away with anything. Whereas here it was fun because you know, you could be understand, you could whisper a little bit. You know, they were so comfortable and you're able to be such a passive aspect of the equation it was. It was pretty neat and more. Yeah, I can definitely relate to that. You know, I grew up hunting in northern Michigan and it was a similar situation to yours erin where our family it was just go up there deer camp during gun season and if it's brown, it's down and you didn't see him any deer at all. And so if if someone shot a fourcorn, that was a deal and that was excitement, you know. Um. And then when I came down here and started hunting other states like Iowa, Ohio, just totally night and day. The way the deer act, the types of deer you see, the number of deer you see, the bucks you see, it's just so drastically different that it's a kind of first kind of mind blowing. And they're so big, like that's the bodies are small, the bantlers are so big. Like to me, anything that you know, as soon as there's more than three points, that basically overwhelms my judgment system. So like I can I can watch in the trophy room and be like, oh yeah, it's a it's a nice one. Seventy. But if I were in the woods and it's something there's just like more as many points as I have fingers, it's scheme over. It's just like immediately like hitch my threshold. And so it's been tough, you know, because with the responsibility of hunting on other people areas and not having the land excess that I normally would, I have to I had to be conscientious about, you know, making sure that the deer that I, the deer that I would would have potentially harvest was was one that was responsible within the grands, the things and that, and you know, oh hell yeah, it was hard for me. You know, like this this season and this isn't wasn't in the film, but you know, I saw my past. I don't know like I would guess it was a dred deer that I thought, honestly, and having like watched it once I came to the realization that I couldn't kill it was maybe two or three, Like it was a little tiny deer, which just like the six five knifing set of antlers. It to me look like you know this, yeah it was, and it just come o, come of the grass. It's just antlers flying all over the place, and I'm sitting in a tree just like, well, this is the biggest deer I've ever seen hunting, you know. I I once in my in my younger days, actually we had a big buck contest in my home county and I I shot a deer that we measured by by body weight and it dressed out it two hundred pounds and I think it was you know, it netted one thirty two so matter than one four yeast kind of deer. And it was like golias, you know, it was like this, this unbelievable specimen of the deer that I had happened, and you know, somehow cross passed with and then my dad and I close the deal on and and this year that I passed, this year, it was you know, would it worth it? Would have made it like I needed to pick it off the wall size And I was just watching it, you know, sniff around and run around my tree. And that's not something that is easy to adjust to, right the logic there, you know, dealing is very emotional. Hunting is very emotional. It's probably lot we love it so much, and you get in a situation like that where it's right there it's not a decision, you know, it's it's very difficult for me to take a step back, like dust and so I slent students and assess, you know, as you have a broken g one or like oh you know, what's this belly line look like? Or how old it is? To me, it's just like, well that's big, you know, and it's a deer, so like a gear to kill it, like that's kind of a goal, you know. So it was a big adjustment. So so I was wondering, as you were talking about this a little bit earlier, what was your goal going into this season, Aaron, or what was your standard? I'd be curious to here from Aaron you first, and then Dustin. I'd like to hear what your standards were too, because I saw, you know, as we saw in the film, you passed on a lot of deer and in the end didn't feel that tag um. I would love to hear a little bit about that too. But I guess Aaron first, with you, what were your goals and standards for that season? My standards, I think that when it comes time to kill an animal, you know, you know when it's when it's when it's right, you know, by the way you feel and the way that things are interacting, and you know, it's not necessarily for me anyways, not very closely tied necessarily to the size of the animal or anything like that. Like the dear that I was most excited about, which you can see in the film. It was a tiny little ten point but I stopped it for you know, not in my mind was stimming at the time. Stopped it for you know, probably four or five. I was within you know, probably forty yards of it on my stomach, but it was bettered, so I couldn't take the shot. And eventually they yet they made a set and ran off and I didn't get a shot at thee yet at the book. But to me, that was like an insane experience ajournal. It was crazy, you know, nothing between me and the deer in the wide open spaces like that was a completely unique and experience from me, and it's incredibly exciting. So that was dear, you know, wouldn't have nobody would have had it, and I had it. But to me, that was probably the pinning pol the season and the deer that I did kill, you know, being up north and not having the time being exposed to to deer the growing up that many of the people that will be listening to this have had. I've never seen deer really running right like. I've never heard of deer grunting, would never seen him funny. All those fun little bits of interaction that we cherished, I've never seen that. So the deer that I killed, it's difficult to pick up in the film, but it was grunting and harassing, dose and everything else. And to me, that was my goal. It was something that was nearly it was something that was exciting, um, and it was a unique experience. It wasn't necessarily something that was like clock Worker I was expecting to happen, or it was an animal of a certain size. It was just a new, fun experience and and I had an opportunity, you know, to kill a deer and and luckily I did. Yeah, yeah, that's pretty awesome. Now what about for you, Destin? I would say my goal for that season was to harvest any mature deer. And mature for me, it's usually you know, a solid five year old deer or better. Size wasn't necessarily uh an issue. I just wanted to make sure it was mature. Um. I did also add to the challenge. I was hunting the whole year with the regroom as well. Um, the first time I've ever gone a full y tell season only traditional, and that definitely added a lot more to the challenge than I expected. Um. Earlier in the season, I did pass a nice uh four and a half year old deer one sixties. He is one of the deer in the video. UM. I kind of regretted that later because it was I think a week and a half two weeks later the neighbor shop the deer, So after that happens to kind of regret passing the deer. But later in the season, later in November. One thing that's not in the videos. I did actually shoot out a deer or a buck that season, um, and ended up hitting a pencil sized limb. Um. Aaron was filming that one, and that deer was probably only a three year old nice rack. But the situation was right, um is getting later in the year and I was ready um, and it didn't happen, you know, adding that extra little bit of the challenge. But their recurve and Traditional definitely added to it that year. So I can't imagine that's uh, it's bow hunting in general is an awful tough game on its own, let alone go into traditional equipment and closing that maximum range so so much so, props to you for trying that. Are you, like, did you try it in subsequent years? Are you gonna keep on doing that? I did not just last year. It comes down to my confidence and the amount of time I had to practice. Last year. We were pretty busy with work, and so I took advantage with the time I could and just when out with my compound again. UM, and I didn't have success there either. It's just one of those things where since I was going back to the compound, I kind of my you know, I wanted the age when I but I also wanted to diy his class and that's just part of the game for me. And I don't have a problem not filling the buck tag. Um, it's just that extra challenge of getting that mature here. It means that much more to me. Um. But during the game adventures, seeing Aaron's excitement and remembering when I had that excitement, you know, it made me when that three year old came in. UM. I had been done with Aaron plenty throughout that season. I was like, all right, I know, if I shoot idea, I'm happy and that's all that matters. So definitely a big lesson I learned there. Yeah, so sort of related to that, you know, listening to you guys talk about all these different things and you're differing goals and standards and and what you're looking for in the hunt. I think this all ties into a lot of the different themes that I pulled out of watching the film myself. But if you guys, if you guys could boil it down to one big takeaway that you wanted somebody watching that film to have, you know, what would that be? And then from there, I want to dive into a few of the other topics to relate to that. And I guess that Aaron, if you want to start, I mean, I think the final line of the film, which you know, I'm still very proud of it, and they'll always you know, even even move me is is a great takeaway. Right, We're all hunting the exact same thing, and that is an experience and a little satisfaction and a little pride and volume, you know, a quantifiable game, regardless what that is, whether it's meat or antlers or you you know, um, if it's really immaterial, we're all out there and we're all doing it fundamentally at its core for the same reason that embodies itself in different ways than people nize each other over it. You know, what do you use as a weapon, Where you hunt, how do you hunt? You know, there's so many different ways and lenses through which people judge one another, and obviously you know it's it's a challenging and dynamic world. There are always gonna be people that do things different thing to or whether you're gear hunting, whether you're stuck in a traffic cham, whether in a business environment. But at the end of the day, be collnizant of other people's upbringing, to be contestant of other people's experiences, And whenever you have an opportunity to share something like Dustin and I shared, and an opportunity to go and hunt and have that experience, don't waste time worrying about who does water, how they do that, or admiring people for some quantifiable measure when fundamentally the guy that plows out and and have everything lining up and shoots a two deer, and the ten year old kid that goes out and lacks the faun with his rifle. They're doing the same thing. And and any time in any effort that's spent worrying about that, it's completely feutial, and it's it's disrespectful to the the animals themselves, is disrespectful with sport, and it's extremely chemic productive. You know, we're in the world as huntress. That that is, you know, realistically under some degree of threatned the idea that any of us wouldn't spend at any time in fighting in regards to to look the writer best or the most appropriate way to do something. It is absolutely as I and I guess you know, I'm going to go out of was stronger words now than I would have been the film. But you know, we need to we need to sort of take a step back and look at what we're really fighting for and realized thats the last fronst the film says. You know, we're all in it for the exact same thing. Yeah, Dustin, would you ad anything else that I would say? That's absolutely right. I mean, there's so much bickering within the hunting industry and the hunting community between you know, different types of hunters, whether you like the rifle, cross boat musli or you know, traditional archery, compound archery. There's so much bickering between individual groups and type of hunters that you know, it's kind of making us weaker as a community. UM. That doesn't need to be there. And I'd say, you know, exactly like the last line, we're all after the same thing. Uh, support each other. If you're happy with your destation, that's all that matters, um. And we just saw me to support each other. So yeah, I really took a lot of the same things from watching it myself too, And I really appreciate the message you guys were trying to get across, because, as you both mentioned, it's something that's so important right now, especially given we have we have so many detractors on the outside that I don't want us to be able to do what we like to do and hunt. But we don't need any more people within, you know, tearing each other apart either. So there's so much truth to that, um. But gosh, there there was a handful of other themes in addition to that. It really was there were a lot of deep topics that we could talk about here, um that are running through my mind. But I'm curious. Dan, you've been a little quiet over there. What was for you? What was the big takeaway for you after watching him of inches? Well, I think, uh it kind of reminded me. I had a I had a bit of a an antler jealousy spell myself, and uh it kind of reminded me that is that jealousy is just wasted energy that you know, should be focused on myself and my goals as far as getting a hunt and not and not being jealous because somebody else was, you know, shooting a bigger quote unquote bigger buck than me. You know, I I work real hard. I put a lot of time, just like everybody does. And you know, I was getting frustrated with myself saying why can't I make it? You know, why can't I put it together and and harvest a mature deer? And I forgot why I do this in the first place, and that this film was a little bit of a reminder to me saying, you know, it's not about the size of the antlers, it's not about killing a mature buck. It's about the experiences and the stories and the memories and and all that stuff. So it was a good reminder to me, and that's that's that's one of the takeaways from the film. Yeah, you know, something you said there, dan Um ties into another one of the things that was mentioned sort of in the beginning of the film. I think it was by you, Aaron, when you were discussing your initial experiences coming into slightly different deer hunting culture in Kansas. Um, and you guys talked about with all the hunting media today and Facebook and all the social media, everyone is seeing all these great big bucks that everybody else is killing, and there's almost this new um competition of the hunt almost where everyone's trying to one up the other person or post a bigger picture or have the greater quote unquote trophy. UM. Can you talk a little bit about that, Aaron, what your experiences We're seeing that kind of for the first time, and then you know what you think about this kind of changing dynamic in the hunting community related to that. Fundamentally, as as humans, you know, we're always going to be competitive. That's a huge part, you know, psychologically of how we make up. You know, what our psyches made and what's what's been able to allow to survive over the years. But for me to see that in such a sharp contrast to what I was raised with. It was, you know, it was kind of confusing because where you know, the way that I was raised and the way that that I was introduced to hunting was simply, you know, if somebody shot a big box, it was like a stampede. Uh you know, orange you know, moderately overweight orange guys struggling, struggling through the woods, you know, just trying to find our way to the shot because you hear the shot is sometimes you hear a guy yell, or you'd get a you know, there'd be some lead lets, you know, or the dog or the dog or the guy ran the chase here the side of the year to see it in the radio or whatever, and we would just it was just like an all that procession, you know, was like it was a complete team apport. And maybe a big part of that is we have a cabin that's tucked back in the woods, and we put all the antlers from all the deer that would shoot together up in that cabin and then we nailed them to the wall. You know, we just saw it out of the floehead and nailed to the wall and take a pencil and write out the year and the place, and underneath the year and underneath the place, there's the name of the hunter. Because the deer comes first, the time comes first, the location environment it comes next, and then at the very bottom of it, it's the guy that pulled the trigger. Because it really it's in material. And the thing that I thought it was frustrating is obviously people are going to you know, I would love to shoot at the deer someday. You know, I'd love to to look up on my wall at a gigantic white tail. Let's see, that's something that I mean, obviously everyone wants. But you look at it situationally. If you live in northern Michigan like you did, you're not going to shoot as big as deers as you're doing Kansas. And when we hunting Kansas and we hunt land that we have permission and we hunt public plan, we're not going to shoot as big as a deer as the people that have leases. And there's so many extenuating circumstances, so many of them are tied to finances that it's impossible to compare yourself to other people. Yet here we are doing it right, Like, what's going to enable someone to shoot a bigger deer than I do next season. They could work harder, they could be better hunters, um they could get lucky, which is something that people seem to refuse to acknoledge. And I respect all three of those things, right like, I I respect hard work, and I understand that that those are obviously big factors. But beyond that, maybe they had, you know, a couple extra and to throw it at bait and trail cameras, and maybe they have them, you know, a couple extra weeks of the case in time, and maybe they had, you know, even more money to throw it a leaves and maybe you know, and it goes on and on and on, and so many these since a financial circumstantial, they go so far outside of some of these hunting prows. And even then, if you shoot it six and a half year old deer, that's a hundred every five inches, you know, having an early eight point Are you sure a six and a half idea it's two? Are you a better hunter? Because that gears bigger? Right Like, that's a very real question, and to me the answers is absolutely not. I don't think that there's an incremental amount of intelligence or challenge that comes with the ambler side. It's simply a byproduct of the age. So you know, we should be if we're going to be competing, pulling the teeth out of our gears, sending the man and posting up the lab result on Facebook, if we want to be showcasing our our abilities and the hunter. But nobody think that, right, So it's it's it's kind of funny to me that it's this arms race or something that doesn't actually quantify any level of of of hunter capability. Yeah, it's um, excuse me, it's something that seems to you know, this exact thing is happening more and more every year as the proliferation of media expands, and it just becomes so much easier for anyone to put it out there. Um. But I'm curious for you, Dustin, Um, you know, I know you've had some experience with Hunting TV and now Rock House Motion, and you know, what do you what do you feel about the overall impact that the growing influence of hunting media is having on hunters and our expectations and how we relate to each other. Right, A lot I do feeling a lot of it's definitely ego driven, and it always will be as far as that goes. But one thing that bugs me, especially with the social media, is how it affects the you and the upcounting upcoming hunters. Um. And you get a kid out there who's twelve inst shoots his first first dear with the bow and it's a spike or a four corm and he's a shame to put it up on uh, on social networking, or you know, show it to his buddies, even if it's just the pictures, simply because of all the big gear out there and the the inches game. Um And, like Aaron said, that's not what it's about. You know, an age, an older dear is probably more of a trophy than just inches. But even that doesn't matter. You know, if you're happy with what you shot, you know, be happy about it, don't be ashamed. Um And I wish that could change on social media. I don't know how to make that change, but you know, as far as youth go, if I was to speak directly to them, don't be ashamed. She what makes you happy? If you want to shoot a button buck, if you want to shoot a doll, shoot what you want. That's how you grow as a hunter. Um, and yeah, so that's that's my take as far as the soul for me is that I hate how it gives people a guilty feeling if they are, you know, makes them feel like they're unsuccessful. It's it's not what other people think, it's what you think. Yeah, Dan, Dan, I have had this exact conversation. I think we're right in line with you guys, and that in the end, it does come down to your own personal goals and satisfaction and the experience and whether you're judging your success by you know, the meat you put in your freezer or how old the deers or whatever it might be. You shouldn't be ashamed of that. Make your own decisions and be happy with that. And um, you know. On the other hand, though, to your point to that, there is something to be said about, you know, targeting older deer or bigger deer, or lenging yourself in whatever way you seem fit. Now I'm curious. I think Aaron you mentioned a bit on this, but Dustin, maybe i'll start with you here. What do you think for someone who wants to challenge themselves and wants to take the hunt to the next level, how should they be setting their expectations. Would you recommend they focus just on age or should they be pushing themselves on some other criteria. What's the right way in your opinion, to push yourself and set expectations for that next level of hunting goals and standards. Now, I would say that's completely up to the individual um where they are as far as pass hunting success. I mean, for me, just looking back in the past, you know, growing up from a young teenager through high school through college, it was always a slow, steady rays and inches and then um, you know, it got to be an age class thing. And then you know, after I had enough hope and young animals in the book, and it came down to really whatever made me happy. And then you know, I kind of if you get bored, change something up. You know, that's you don't ever want to get bored. That should never happen, Which is where I picked up Traditional Archer and its completely new. I had that excitement that I had when I was young yet and it brought it all back to me and now even with the compound, I still get this same excitement. It just it rejuvenated my hunting passion and that's what everyone's goal should be. Keep yourself excited. You know, whenever you succeed, if you're not excited, you did something wrong. So as far as your goal, make it something that once you succeed and you've reached that goal, you're beyond thrilled about it. Yeah, that's so important. It's it's easy sometimes to get so focused in numbers or whatever other criteria was set and we forget to just have fun. So right, that's a great reminder. Now what about you, Aaron coming from different background, Um, did you get gaining a new perspective on on setting those standards for yourself for in the future. Why what I was able to do is understand how people are able to think that way. In the past it was sort of stivable. But now that I know the volume of deer, you know, if you go and shoot the person, you see your seasons going to be literally one day long every time. You know. So, so you have there's a luxury to be able to choose and set your goals more lossily than just harvesting a deal, which is something I wasn't exposed to. So I don't want it to be you know something where I'm I'm necessarily against trophy hunting, because I'm not I'm not really against anything um as far as a specific way of somebody recognizing their own goals. But basically, what my advice should be to a deer hunter, whether they're a trophy hunter and nele fight, is try and set your goals within the realmost something that you can control. So don't set your goals around and want to shoot your own insteer because there's a good chance but no matter what you do, they're going to show up on your phone and if you're sitting there begrudguating the fact that there's not an animal like that, you know, how can you how can you think of that? Obviously there's certain there's circumstances you can't control. I'm not saying that you know, only only set your goals on things that absolutely will happen. But if there's a two you want to kill them, find set that goal. But if you don't, set stressholds for yourself that are unattainable with the resources that you have available. So the way that I do that personally knowing that I'm not going to have a ton of time behind, knowing that I don't you know, with with the way that things are with Rockfast, knowing that I don't have the land access that I would like to have and and the time and energy the both of things. I just want to shoot things in a way that it's a little bit different. Like I would love to rattle a deer in on the ground and kill it. That's that's cool to me, you know, being on eye level, eye to eye, um, calling a deer and I'm Keith water Fell hunter, so I love that interaction. That to me is you know, maybe the pinnacle. So if that's my goal next season, Um, obviously that's isolated to do a certain time of year, but that's the kind of thing that that it doesn't matter what kind of ground I have or what side whatever, what's the deal after it's that that experience and that unique thing and that just like hard charging and genaline rush, that that sort is that the core of it all back And I would suspeople strive or find that one thing that's a little unorthodoction. Maybe not, but it's it's attainable and it's something that challenges you in your way. That's a cool idea. I like that a lot. Another thing you said to Aaron that I think UM is an important reminder and something that I just wrote about UM for outdoor life is about setting expectations based on your circumstances. Um So, if you do decide you want to set some type of goal or standard, um you know, take a look at where you hunt and set those standards based on you know, like you said, Aaron, what's attainable in that region or given your circumstances, and not necessarily base your goals off of what you see you know, Lee and Tiffany doing in Iowa. If you live in New Hampshire, you're probably going to be pretty disappointed if you're setting those types of standards. Um So I talked to you Dr Grant Woods, who a lot of us know as a great White till expert, and one of the things he recommended we do is take a look at, you know, what types of deer your region or your county UM is producing. And if if you do want to challenge yourself to try to you know, target those um you know, more difficult deer to hunt, maybe try to find out what the top in age class might be for that region, or if you're into antlers, um, you know, figure out what that top ten percent of antlers of deer being harvested, Aeron might be and then and set goals based on that, but saying something arbitrarily based off of TV that seems to be a recipe for disaster. Now tying into that, you know when we start talking about antlers and the focus on antlers that you know inevitably happens when you have big bucks on TV and on the front covers of magazines and across videos and websites and all the above. I think we're all guilty of it to some degree of of right. We love big deer. They give us excited, they're fun to see, their incredible animals. Um, but what I want to talk about is are we're going too far? And is trophy hunting quote unquote trophy hunting? Is it getting to be to a dangerous point? And I don't know, I don't know if I have an answer to that, but I'm curious. Maybe, UM, I'll start with you, Dustin, given the fact that you have more of a background to that, do you think that the antler craze has gone too far yet? Uh? Too far yet? I would say it's there. Yeah, it's gonna keep getting worse. Um, you know there's the high fence deer and the deer being raised to be three foes and um, that's something I'm not into. Some people love it. It's it's an individual thing. I I don't know where the stopping point is or how it would ever stop. I think at some point, once people get over the fact there's too many deer, maybe that's what's gonna slow down, that there's just big deer everywhere. And then it's the experience again, you know, that's that's my hope. Um. I don't know where where how to stop that, but I do believe that the antler craze and the inches game, um, is definitely over the top. Um. You know, people doing things that are uh you know, not not necessarily legal to get animals of that size. You know, don't do anything to get that dear. Um, it's there, and I don't think it's going to slow down. And to your point, you know, it's getting to the point where people are doing on ethical things sometimes or they're damaging relationships with friends and family because of it. Um, I think that's a that's a scary thing that we're seeing. What do you think, Aaron from your from your perspective on that. I think that uh chikeouting is sort of not to get too big pictures, but it's an extension of overall societal trend of value results over the process. And I think that what's important to me personally this is the process. If I if I climb on that, it's not holy shoot, I mean our host smoke storite. I made it to the summit. Um. It's like, you know, remember falling and scraping your knee and getting back up and drinking water, you know after at sunrise and taking that moment to catch your breath. And if it's a job, it's not about the paycheck. It's about the expense and the and the stuff that you learned along the way. And you know, I think the trophy hunt was just like a really concentrated example of that where people are completely losing sight of what it takes to get there and focusing on the end result. And I think that's a danger in aspect of life is as much as it is. And I think that you know, again, if it makes me happy, it's not gonna be a problem. But like you said, when it comes to jams and family relationships, professional relationships, breaking a lot people get so crazy with finding you know. I guess the the environment has created such a craze around um, these antlers and giant deer that people are forward going the process and focusing on this automatics and ender danger. Yeah. I I think you're spot on with that. And this kind of brings me to something I've been like chewing on for a while myself. Um, I've been meaning to write something about this, and I'm planning on it, but I guess I'll kind of spit out my off the top of the head thoughts on this and maybe get your guys as ideas on this. UM. And I realized this isn't possible because it's so it's it's so ingrained in just our vernacular and our vocabulary. But if I could, I would love to remove the term trophy hunting from our overall vocabulary personally my personal opinion, because I feel like, to your point, Aaron, just the terminalogy itself, not not actually what people are doing, but just the terminology. It focuses on exactly that same thing that you said, Aaron, focuses on the end goal and not the process, and it focuses on this idea of of this deer being boiled down to nothing but a set of antlers that goes on the wall and not being the meat that we that we you know, feed our families with, and all the experiences and all the work and all the time and everything that went into that. I worry that just that terminology, especially when viewed from the outside. You know, when someone who doesn't understand hunting, when they see someone talking about trophy hunters, they think that we're just you know, Willie nearly killing animals to put their horns on the wall. And I think that devalues the hunt, It devalues the animal um, and it devalues the entire experience and everything that we love about hunting. Um. So my little personal rant for the day is I wish we could get rid of that word and maybe say something else. Maybe it's challenging hunting or mature buck hunting or whatever it might be. I don't know what the different, better option could be that I might use, But I don't know, and I am I crazy. What do you think hereon? Does that make any sense? Absolutely? I mean, when you know when people when the Super Bowl, the highlight of the whole thing isn't get a ring put on the thinker at the end of it, right, And I think that that's kind of the incumulation with so beheld it just like I'm gonna hang this thing up in the wall, you know when you go to when you go to university. It's not like the diploma unting, right, or a degree hunting, you know, it's just like, yes, hung it up. This is why, like right, it's the tig parties and the stuff you might happen to learn along the way that really define it. And and yeah, I think that that you're unpresent, right, And I think it's especially dangerous from the perspective that you're talking about um from the outside. You know. I have a lot of people say to me through the various exposures to that that wells as long as you don't show the hunt, you know, because they associate that with with climbing up the mountain and you know, and doing whatever you do go on as far as shooting an animal and then hacking out the antlers and and leading the rest to to waste. And I think that's absolutely the insinuation. And however, I'm true it may be UM back the intinuation to the broader public and I think that you're you're hunder right, you sort of remove that term and and the negative association outside of the community. I think, if you a powerful thing, Yeah, what do you think dustin from your perspective? I mean, and I can't claim to not have ever used that terminology either myself. I mean, I target mature bucks, and I pay attention to age and inches and all those different things, just like you. Um. But but what are your thoughts on that? No, I would agree. I mean, in the perfect world, there wouldn't be trophy hunting, and it almost be called memory hunting or something like that. You know, when I look at a deer on the wall of my own you know, it's not just looking at the size of the deer. You know, each year I look at, I can tell you exactly what happened during that hunt or that old entire year. You know, what made up that whole memory. And that's the the important thing. What what makes that a trophy to you individually? Um? You know when people hear the turn trophy hunting, Yeah, they automatically think of inches. Um. Yeah, I wish that wasn't the case, But I don't know, Like I said, memory hunting would be cool. But I don't think anyone would ever call that because it sounds too cool. I think you're right, although I have tried recently. I've recently wrote something on the blog, and you know, I mentioned that, you know, these antlers will hang into you know what a lot of people call their trophy room, and I'm gonna start calling up my memory room and I'm gonna try to start the trend with a little little baby stuff there. But but Dan, Dan, what do you think about all this? I just think it's it's up to the hunter themselves too to determine what, you know, what the trophy actually is, because there's a lot of people out there, and I know I know a couple of them who think that because they kill a big buck it makes them special, or it makes them, like Aaron said, a better hunter than the next guy, when it doesn't mean crap. Just because you killed a deer with a bigger rack doesn't make you better than the next guy because guess what, next year, no one will remember that you shot a big buck. No one cares. So I just feel that it's one of those things where where you have to live your life and hunt the way you hunt. And and yes, it's awesome to congratulate and show, um, you know, show emotion towards somebody else being successful, But you gotta worry about yourself. Yeah, so true, so true. You know. Okay, so we we've talked a little bit about antlers and the idea of setting your own personal goals and some different thoughts on the trophy hunting aspect of things. But what about the meat hunting side of the story, especially recently? And Dan and I talked about this just a little bit before the two of you joined us. UM, But you know, recently, there's been an increased amount of excitement maybe about the meat eating aspect of hunting, especially now with the increase of interest from people outside of the traditional hunting community. Lots of quote unquote hipster hunters. People wanted to get into it because of the ability to you know, harvest organic, free range meat and you know, be close to your food. UM. I'd be curious to hear both of your perspectives on this renewed interest on the meat eating side of things. Maybe Dustin, could you give me a couple of thoughts on that. Yeah, I think it's a great trend. Um. You know, there's nothing that means more than eating your own venice and that that you've got yourself. You know exactly where it came from. You know, no prosurtive preserve it is you know, like you said the hips to Atip hunting, it's it's great. You know, it's always been about that. That's how it started in the past. You know it should be that way. And yeah, I'm excited to see that trend picking happen. Hopefully it keeps going that way. Um, it should always be regardless of what the animal is, you know, even if it is you know, a great big luck. You know that that meat should not go away and should be cherished regardless. Yeah. Absolutely. What about you, Aaron, from your perspective of kind of starting out that way and still focusing maybe primarily on that, What do you think about this new wave of interest? Um, I've I've been lucky in my life to have been exposed to a lot of different types of people, a lot of different groups of people. I've been super fortunate to feally introduced a lot of friends who have never have had an opportunity to hunting into doing it. And the thing that always that they're always most proud of and the sort of culminating moment for them, almost on top of the kill itself, is whenever we sit down for dinner and with friends and family, and you know, and we serve whatever it was that they harvested, whether that was a doctor, a goose, or a grouserf as in or a turkey or dear, that is the culminating moment. And as far as the hipster hunters are concerned, I worked extremely hard to stay to keep my opinions to myself in the social media stage, the personal sanity and professional professional longevity. But I verysiensi um. It was basically to the point where I felt I needed to like people so often too, I felt I do the can year to a situation where somebody is begrudging the the influx of hist centers or you know, that's that's the term that goes with it, and and I just thought that was audacious and insane. And I would love to go on the record and say that anyone who is unwilling to accept an influx of new sportsman maybe because they don't share the same socio economic situation, or the same style or the same political beliefs, for the same religious beliefs or the same cultural background that is absolutely counterproductive to the overall health of our sport and the health of our environment. If you're getting people that can be passionate about this, that's one more person that's on both conservation. It's on both the content and that's willing to share the thing that we care about the most. Anyone that's defensive of that or is against that or responding a way to view this as a negative, in my opinion, truly needs to reassess what it is that they actually look for UM when they take to the field. Because the way that I my my world view and my view of hunting, every single person that wants to do it and is willing to play within the rules and it has a set of personal ethics is the very most welcome. Of course, it's truestioning when I go set up a duck wide and something somebody that isn't it is um experience sets me up down into near a deer hunting and there's a new tree staying on a spotles hunt. Of course that's struestioning. But at the end of the day, try and think a big picture, and I think that you know the food being at the center of this is only natural like dust and said, it's something I've experienced several friends, and anyone who can use this as a negative is that is being really counter productive in regards to the overall context of the industry and the community. I'm glad you went on the record saying that, Aaron and uh and let me join you as I one absolutely completely agree with you on that UM and I just think it's it's insane that some people would would want to, like you said, begrudge anyone new coming into this um, into this community. So so I U I am welcoming all quote unquote hipster hunters to the game, join us. It's an amazing thing to be a part of. And I hope any and all people young, old man, woman, UH, rural and urban. I think anyone that wants to experience this should absolutely feel comfortable doing so. And I would put it out to all of us deer hunters to take it on ourselves as responsibility to help anyone who's looking for that guidance because a lot of these people getting into hunting late in the game, they don't have a parent that's experienced with that. Are a lot of these people growing up in an urban situation don't have friends that are experienced with hunting and acquiring their own food and meet in this way. And so it's a it's a responsibility to try to do that ourselves and help those people. So so so that said, I think you know we're we're coming up here on time. I want to be respectful of your guys as uh of your you know, schedules and whatnot. So I've got one final question for you, um, and this was up I think again by you Aaron. In the film, you talked about the sort of this different experience down there in Kansas where you were seeing you know, the trail cameras documenting deer and you were seeing you know, you're picking apart these deer pixel by pixel, and you know, there's food plots and there's all these these different management things going on, almost almost agricultural nature of raising deer and hunting them, um, almost cultivating deer in some way. You know, now that you've had some experience with that, can you give me a little bit of your thoughts on on what that was like and where you kind of stand on the management of deer so intensively or is that something you've come to terms with or is that still a weird thing. I think it's for me, it's personally it's weird, but it's definitely something that I have a lot of respect for. There's some people that have an incredible connection with the deer, I mean not his brothers have an undersustaining of the local deer population that I can't begin to wrap my head ran. They We'll find a shed and and within six hours one of them will produce a trail camera photo and say, oh, yeah, this is you know, Bucky seven years ago, and and lent missing, and we found his shed three miles that valley's two miles, you know, we found the shed two miles from where I passed on him as a three year old. And it's incredible death of knowledge that it's in a respect for it. For me, it's not how I it's not how I hunt. I don't think I can see myself investing that amount of time in it in the future, because you know, I would love I love duck hunting, a few sunning, and I love you know, there's huge broad riety of door activities. So I can't imagine going all in on something like that to that extent, but I definitely have respect for people that do it, and I understand the attraction. It's a it's an amazing feeling to have such a great connection with the deer heard, and it's it's probably not something I'll pursue it, it's certainly something that I respect as strange as I mean consider it to be. So I think that will probably put us in a good position to to probably wrap this whole thing up though. So I've I've really enjoyed this conversation. I think we've covered, you know, some really important topics that a lot of people really should you should be thinking about. These are things that are going on, and these are things that each individual hunter. I think it's important that we think through and chew on. And something you said earlier, Aaron, about the importance of you know, in you in the context you were talking about is new hunters joined the fold. But I think everyone should really have a a personal ethic when it comes to hunting, and I think all these things tie into what each person's personal ethic will be, how they go about setting their standards and their motivations and all those things. It really comes down to a personal choice. But really thinking about that beforehand. So I'm glad we could talk about these things. Um, Dan, I'm curious for you. Do you have any final question? Uh? For Aaron or Dustin before we let them go. I just one thing I'm curious with is you guys, are you know, at two opposite ends of the spectrum in your hunting career or I shouldn't say career, but um on two different paths? And I'd like to know what your guys goals are moving forward for And I'll start with I'll start with Dustin, and uh, I'm just kind of curious as a as a quote unquote trophy hunter. And you take age class into consideration, how much, how much longer? What's what's the next change that you're going to do. Let's say you you you shoot have a big mature buck the next five years, what's next? What's the next thing you're gonna try to change? Are you're gonna try a different species? And then Aaron, what's your what's your goal for two thousand and fifteen? Just to set that out, I would say, you know, I'm always open to anything new. Um, I've yet to harvest a mature white tail in Kansas, so that's still my continuing goal. Once that's met, I'll obviously change something up. Whether you know, when I do harvest a buck in Kansas, if it's with a compound, I may you know, switch back to traditional, or you know, if I do shoot one with traditional, I'll try and make it a more mature dear or Um. It just comes down to the situation when that deer is in front of me, and if it's something different, something unique, something that I know is gonna make a new memory for me, then I'm going to take that opportunity and you know, make the best of it. Um. Same thing with you know, hunting new areas, whether I, you know, choose to go up to Alaska or if I want to go out into the mountains and and chase elk or a meal deer or whatever, is a new experience. It's always going to be a new story, um, and a new memory for me. So that's what my next challenge will be, is to always make the memory something that stands out in my mind when I look at that animal. Um, you know, whether it's on my wall or when I'm eating it, I just want to know what all went into it. It's awesome and Aaron for me personally this past year, I didn't shoot a deer soul I'd like to shoot a deer. That's a pretty much the extent of my personal goals as well as from my owning standpoint. But beyond that, you know, we have an exceptional platform here at Rockhouse to tell great stories. And my fundamental passion as a person, whether it's in the podcast like this one, n film and a story of photograph, is to tell stories. And I want to be able to to create and to share those stories through whatever medium with as many people as I can. I'd love to get my dad dad here and exposed to you know, to get the darning and kanvas. I'd love to introduce um some friends of mine to turkey hunting. I'd love to you know, continue you know, with my background as a waterfowl hunt to introduce Matt Dustin uh and deeper and deeper into the world of waterfowl hunting. I am. I am driving a community environment. I love having stories that I can sit down with somebody and reminisce upon. I was in the stand with not this past year as she shot a tremendous boot um then I basically just was paralyzed by and was unable to film due to the fact that it was I didn't think it was real, Like I argue, he was than any when he smoked that. And to see mad who's so calculating and and so often, Yeah, they had just shot some ridiculous dear and over the years to sit there and just watch him just shake was you know, to me some first period if I had that opportunity myself, because you get to see people that that well, you have the big deal of mean more to him than they would to me. And and that being able to shore out with him as my friend and capture the recovery which will be out this next year, something that they will be pushed out to your sick as channels. And that's that's that's what I care about that story. It's enriching the story and and creating something to reflect upon and challenging myself. That's pretty vague and pretty pretty broad, but it's it's another story that's always we're hunting for and hopefully it gives things continue out that people will enjoy when we get a chance to tell my rock. Yeah, well, I'm looking forward to those stories in the future and for those that want to either watch the game of inches or be aware of whatever is new coming down the line for you guys, Where can people go to get that and get more information about you guys? Facebook Instagram are both great sources as far as the day to day behind the scenes stop. I mean, you'll see some of our better images, You'll see some fun images, You'll get an idea of who we are as people. You can follow us personally as well. You will be easy to find. But yeah, broadcast motion on Instagram, broadcast motion on Facebook, and if you want to see the breadth of our work, we have an account on Vimeo, broadcast motion on there and on five pixels for us skills images. And you're just like making cool stuff and and hopefully people find a way to to enjoy it, whether they're sportsman or not. And and we love to hear from everybody. So if your thoughts on on this or any other work that we've ever done, I'm just shoot us, I mean personally me or dustin an email. And at rockcast motion dot com, destint brodcast motion dot com We're always open to hearing what people think and hearing stories because we're any man in a very unique medium where we get to tell stories, but they go out to the internet and we never get to hear the impact that they have on people. And when we do, it's usually pretty profound, so positive or negative in agreement and disagreement. We love to everybody. So it's in how do you want to engage? Please look us up. It's it's it's been a fun riding. I hope that it continues, and it's fun to have an opportunity like today to discuss what that some some like minded individuals who also you know, may have some different opinions, but we can open a fun discussion like this one. I speak on me haf a destinent and pretty confident in myself that this is something that we very much enjoyed and been challenged by this discussion. And thanks to you guys. Congratulations on the Outdoor Life cover and the podcast, and a big thanks to you for having us on as well as oh of the companies and sponsors that we have and the people supported us to be how they do. Do we do because it's pretty pretty unique and phenomenal existence, and we wouldn't be able to do that people believing in stories and late we do so absolutely well, we will make sure to include all the links to your website and your very social media profiles and everything on the show notes for today. UM So, for everyone listening, if you want to connect with these guys, go to Wired two Hunt dot Com slash episode fifty and I'll have links for everything that Aaron just said there, so you will be able to click to it and get in touch with them or check out their work, um, and please do that. Please do check out their videos, check out their images. Um, these guys are doing some incredible stuff. Um, so check that out. And Aaron and Dustin thank you so much for joining us, and Matt. Don't forget Matt and Matt too. All right, well, thanks again, guys, We really appreciate the time. Thanks guys. All right, well, that's going to be a rap for us today and I hope this episode got you thinking a bit and maybe you'll a good conversation started for you the next time you sit down with your own hunting buddies. That said, as I mentioned earlier, for show notes from this episode, with all the links and resources we discussed today, please visit Wired to Hunt dot Com Slash episode fifty. And speaking of fifty, as we noted already, this is our one year anniversary of the podcast, and if you've been listening along with us since we started, I've got a big favorite ask. If you haven't already, could you please give us a rating or review on iTunes. It's super easy, it takes just a couple of seconds, and it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Also, if you're not yet subscribed to the podcast on your phone or tablet, I highly recommend it. It makes this whole podcasting experience a lot more enjoyable and easy, and you'll get each week's new episode download straight to your device. Moving on, as always, we'd like to thank our partners who have stepped up to make the Wired Hunt podcast possible. So big thank you too, sick A Gear Trophy, Ridge Bear Archery, d Knee Blinds, Huntera, Maps, Hunt Soft Lacrosse Boots, and the White Tail Institute of North America. And finally, thank you to you. This has been an absolutely incredible year of podcasting and without you guys listening, they wouldn't have been possible at all. So thank you from the bottom of my heart, and as always, stay Wired to Hunt.

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