00:00:02 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm your host, Mark Kenyon, and this is episode number thirty nine. Today the show, we're excited to be joined by our special guest, Eva Shocky to discuss the rise of female participation in hunting and much much more. All Right, welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. And as I mentioned today in the show, we've got a terrific guest, Eva Shocky, and we're discussing the rise of female participation in the hunting world. Now, for those of you who maybe aren't familiar with Eva, if you listen to the wire Drump podcast for a while, you most likely caught our episode with her father, Jim Shocky. He's the very well known host of several hunting shows, and one of those, Jim Shocky's Hunting Adventures, is co hosted by Eva. Now, in addition to her work on TV, Eva has also evolved into a terrific spokeswoman for hunters, especially for the women in our ranks, and that is why we wanted to have Eva on the show today. Now, that said, though, before we dive into this great conversation, how are you doing, Dan, my co host, are you live over there? I'm alive. Uh. We survived the A t A show we did, and that's uh, that's saying something. I know, Um Friday night. I'm not gonna go into any detail, but I'm just gonna say that Saturday's drive home was not easy. About forty minutes into the drive, I had to use one of the State of Indiana's really clean rest stops and I took a forty minute Now you know, I don't I don't blame it, and and kudos to Indiana, they do have nice facilities. But uh, but yeah, A T. A is awesome. It's always great to see all the new products and here about all the news and see everyone. But always lends itself to a lot of a lot of late nights kind of going out there and seeing everyone with with everybody altogether for a few days. It's just there ends up being a lot of fun being hend. So we we definitely had some fun. I'd say, yeah, I know this is probably a different topic for a different time, but I got to sit down and have while you were doing an in your interview, for Outdoor Life. I actually had to. I felt like I was interviewing him. I got a to sit down and talk with a guy that I think is just one of the greatest hunters of all time. If that's such a thing. So, and we'll talk more about that on a later date. But let's let's not even say who that is. We're going to keep it a secret. Let's keep that a secret with you. I'm very jealous, Like when you came and told me that, I just jealousy was the only thing I felt. Jealousy and a little bit of rage and a lot of excitement. Yeah, I think I really hope that um that we're going to be able to get him onto the podcast here, like we've talked like we maybe will because that will be a really interesting conversation. So good things, Good Things from a t A show two thousand and fifteen, and uh and now we're you know, we're moving into a new time of year. Both of our hunting seasons are done and now it's onto the two thout hunting season. And you know, as I mentioned an introduction, I wanted to bring Eva onto the show today to talk about you know, what's really become a really terrific trend in the hunting world, and that's been increased participation from women. Um, you know, for several decades, every time we ever heard about hunt her numbers, they were always going down. And now just over the past five or six years or so, we're finally seeing an uptick and a lot of that is attributed to more and more women wanting to get involved. And I think that's an awesome thing. I'm really excited about it. And you know, it's been a long time coming. We really should have been talking about this a while ago, so I'm glad that we can finally really talk about this topic, celebrate this topic, and get one of the one of the greatest spokespeople really for women hunters on the show here today. Um So, Dan, what do you think? Are you excited for this talk? Yeah, Like everybody out there knows, I got a daughter, she's gonna turn two next month, and I'd like, I just want to pick her brain about you know, I don't really get to talk a lot to a lot of women about about hunting. So you know how her dad got her into hunting, so maybe I can emulate that on my daughter, and UM, try to get you know, because I don't want to pressure her and I don't want to make her do anything she doesn't want to do. So I think I'm gonna ask her some questions about that. Yeah, that's an awesome idea. Me too. I've got a couple of nieces who I hopefully will be taking hunting someday soon, and uh, I need some tips. So far, my whole strategy has been basically just to get them really excited about pictures of Bucks. Like from the time they could talk, whenever I passed, you know, was over by one of my mounts on the wall, I point out and say Buck, or whenever I had a hunting magazine out, which I have them all over the house, I point the pictures and say Buck. And then I start showing the pictures on my cell phone of Bucks. And now both of them are like obsessed with seeing pictures of Bucks, Like whenever they see me, like I want to see Buck, let me see Bucks. Or my my niece Georgia, who's um a little bit older now, I think for um, she'll always ask to go in my office and she wants to sit in my lap and pull up my computer and look through trail camera pictures with me. It's it's pretty awesome. So that's that's as far as I've gotten so far with them. But I think that's a good start. Yeah, my daughter has the I have my mount downstairs and I take her downstairs. She has my man My man cave just recently got turned into a child's playpen, but I still have some stuff hanging on the wall down there. And uh, every time she walks by, she says buck, big buck. Sometimes sometimes it sounds like something different because she's still young. I don't know whether I should congratulate her or scold her. But but yeah, she's she's learning, she knows, she knows daddy. She knows daddy has a big buck on the wall. That's awesome. That's exciting, I think. Um, it's it's really awesome that now, um, you know, more and more fathers are trying to get their daughters in hunting, and that you know, more and more daughters are interested in that. Um, it's it's just great for the sport, it's great for our tradition and it's such a wonderful thing. It's just sad that for for a long period of time, Um, women felt um maybe you know, not included in hunting for you know, the past couple of decades. I'm glad that's changing, um And I think it's it's produced a lot of really good things. And it's kind of an interesting um A couple episodes we had here because last week, as you know, Dan, we had my wife and my buddy's wife on the podcast talking about what it's like being married to a serious deer hunter. UM. And now today we're gonna talk to Eva, who is a woman and a serious hunter herself, and so we'll get her perspective on things. So I think it's a really interesting yin and yang we're gonna have here. And I'm just stoked for this interview. So if you're already, Dan, I say we should get Eva on the phone. And uh, I think we should start chatting. Yeah, let's get her on all right, let's do it all right here with this on the line. Is Eva Shocky welcome the show. Thank you very much, thanks for having me. Yeah, we you know, as I just mentioned, really appreciate you joining us. Me and Dan just got back from the A T A show a couple of days ago, and I know you were there too, and I imagine you were really busy. Is that true? Oh my goodness, show, every for us is nuts. But this year was just above. It was above and beyond anything that possibly could have imagined as far as scheduling. My My calendar was booked from every morning. I think I started at seven thirty and I didn't get back to my room before twelve any of the days. And I don't know that I stopped talking for more than two minutes throughout the day. So it was great. So we're happy when it's oh wow, that sounds like my worst nightmare I have. You know, at the show, I'm kind of bouncing around going to different booths covering new products, and then I have meetings for business and whatnot, and then a little bit of this kind of here and there in between, and just doing that, I feel like incredibly exhausted after those couple of days. I can't imagine having meetings and scheduled appointments the entire time. So yeah, you know, it's it is exhausting, but it's still rewarding and so fulfilling to meet all those wonderful hunters, especially at the A K Show. I mean, everyone's they're hardcore bow hunters, which is great because the bow hunters are the most extreme hunters I think that exist anyway. So and there's a whole big building tools them and everyone's excited and everyone's all at the same passion. So for me and my dad, I know, um, I'll speak for him. We love it. Yeah, it's a it's a pretty cool event and that's for sure. What do you think what do you think was your favorite thing from this A t a show, whether it was an event or a product or something you have to do, is there anything that really stood out for you? Well, I'm glad you're asking, because I actually launched UM, the very first ever that bo Checks ever done signature bow. It's the Eva Shocky signature series, so UM from bow Check and it's a women's bow that's really high end, so it's the most hie in products and technology and cams and everything that you can get on a boat, but it's specifically for women. So that was huge. It's a really big, I think step for the industry because they don't have anything like that. So for me, I mean, hands down, I was so excited about I couldn't tell anyone about it. It couldn't even tell them we're launching something so I just had to keep my mouth closed, and we finally got talked about an A show that is awesome. Congrats on that, thank you very much, yea. And I think that's a perfect segue to what we really want to spend a lot of time here talking about with you, and that is, you know, women in the hunting world. And to kick things off, I was curious, you know, a lot of us were familiar with your with your dad Jim and what he's done with his various TV shows, and so I'm curious, you know, can you tell us a little bit about, you know, what it was like growing up as Jim Shocky's daughter and what that process was how we got you in hunting. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure it's not as exciting as people probably wanted to be, as far as I didn't obviously, I didn't think of him as the Jim Shocky that other people think of him as, Like I saw him pay today and he was in my life and we were very close with a very close family. I didn't think of him as like this guy with the TV show. So if anything, we definitely kept him grounded because we never let him think we thought he was cool. Because he was, and I'm gonna under out if anything, my dad is not cool, and people would tell me you're so cool. I'm like, no way, yeah right. But eventually, obviously, um, I got out of those teenage years and stopped for a minute that you know, I think my dad actually is really well. So that's when I started hunting. I wanted, I really started hunting. I mean I wanted to try it, but I really wanted to get closer to my dad. I wanted to do what he liked doing and seeing why he was so passionate about this thing that he did my whole life. And it's the minute I started. The first time I went on, I was completely cooked. I understand a hundred percents what it was that he loved about it, the feelings, the emotions, the journey of the adventure, all those things, and um, in the end result, hopefully you're gonna have wild game at the end. So I understood more about him. Um. But yeah, he was just I mean, he was a great dad. He traveled a lot, and he brought us in a lot of really cool trips that most people don't get to do. And they were weird. I mean, we we would do things like take our trailer from BC down to Mexico's two week drive and we'd be in this a little his nineteen pre ninety four Mighty Dodge and we drive down. It's like a two theater with the little bucket pieces in the back. We drive for two weeks this little trunk with this little trailer thing on the back, and we'd go, I mean, to every camp and say we could find and this stuff that most people don't do. And it's not glamorous by any means, but it really showed us a lot of the world and showed us to be adventurous and a whole bunch of I mean, it was just I'm really grateful to have on me. But she was really cool to grow up with. That's awesome. So was there any any pressure to maybe get into the family business or or to to hunt maybe before you were ready? There really wasn't at all, because I guess, and that's honestly why I believe I did come back and I wanted to hunt because I never got pushed into it. And if people ask me, lots of fathers will ask me, oh, I want to get my daughter hunting, what's the best way? And my advice it sounds sort of counterproductive, is don't push them. I mean invite them, teach them about it, shows them how cool it is. Now interesting. But like my dad did, and it was the best thing you could have done. He never pushed me, He never forced me to go and hunt with and he never you know this and that he never made me do it um until I was ready. And my mom didn't hunt. So when I grew up, and she was a dancer, so I was a dancer. I played every sport in the book. I did everything you could possibly do. I just wasn't ready to hunt. And for whatever reason, when I was twenty, I turned around and said, Dad, you know, I want to try hunting. And I just remember his face because he'd been asking me and inviting me for years and years, and finally he kind of gave it up, like Okay, she's not going to hunt. And I think that was the point when I when he gave up on me, I was like, you know what, I want to hunt. So I started at that point. And you're never too old to start, and I wish I would have started younger, but I'm really glad I started when I didn't kept up with it, Yeah, and the rest is history, right, Yeah, exactly. So I'm curious, then, do you remember your first hunt? And if you do, can you tell us about that? Yeah? Of course, Oh I'll never forget my first son. Um. When so I was twenty, I came back from university. I've been on hunts obviously. I've traveled with my dad a lot and been a lot of his sons and been there when he shop things, and I was had no problem with that. I was helping him skin when I was young, like it was totally normal. I just I didn't want to shoot something myself until I was twenty, and then I decided I did Um and I but at that point I still I wasn't quite sure if I would be okay with it, like it's I was the one that killed something, would I be would I be sad? Or would I regret it? So I just started that I wanted to start with something that I thought was kind of ugly, because then I was like, oh, maybe I won't feel so bad. So I shot my first time was an award hog in South Africa. My dad was already going there for some other for a trip, and when I said I want to go hunting, you kind of fit and I just kind of joined them on that trip and my mom was there, and so I wouldn't after a ward hog because it's they're so funny looking, like almost like I didn't feel so guilty as if it was a fear or something. But in times that I think I would have been fine anyways. But it was a good starting animal. And then from there, um it was like I used the muzzle or so pretty cool. And then from there on the same trip, I think I got a blessed buck and a black built the beast, and then that was the next trip. From then onwards, I was just in love with hunting. So that moment you just shot that dog your first and we ever shot and killed. What was that feeling like for you? I mean, I know you've been exposed to it with your dad and your family, but was that a really wilder sad or what were the emotions you were feeling at that point. Yeah, there's no comparison between the difference in um, if I'm on a hunt with my dad and he's hunting versus if I'm on a hunt and I'm hunting. It's just such a different element and so many different feelings involved, and when he's hunting, it's it's I'm calm. I mean, it's I'm sort of a stud party just observing, and it's different. But when I'm there and I'm the one responsible to pull this trigger and make a good shot and make sure it has a humane no death and everything, um, there's a lot more that goes into it, especially being a first hunt. And I just remember standing there. I was using my muzzleloader and the emotion. We've been kind of going after the group of ward hogs for a while and we kind of kept evading us and getting away, and then we finally got one and it was we founded in the bushes, and I was so up and down. Like I explained it, like it's felt like a relical was dre. I'm excited and I'm sad and I'm excited and I'm worried, and then I'm nervous and that I'm happy, and like it just up back and forth. And the moment I pulled the trigger, the smoke obviously for the must letter went off, and I said, didn't I get him? And I was so worried that after all that practice at the gun range and shooting, I mean, I grew up, I grew up shooting, but I just never shot at something. So I was so concerned that maybe I didn't make a good shot. But I didn't. I made a great shot. I started crying because it wasn't because I was sad. It was just so overwhelming, all those emotions I just felt within the two minutes of that situation, and um, it was kind of like the end, the end, and it all worked out well. And my mom was there, she started crying, and my dad, I'm pretty sure he started cooking it before guide was looking at it like that's that's what it's all about. Those are the kind of memories that I think are what keep us all coming back to hunting for so many years to come, you know, yeah for us, And I mean, hunting is so wonderful for so many reasons. But I'll always tell anyone that asked the number one saying about hunting for me that I love his family. It's it's a family thing for us. I love hunting with my dad. Even if I go without my dad on the hunts, I mean, which is great and it's cool because it's more of a independent thing. But I still if I if I get an animal. I'm just always so sad because I have my dad's not there to share it with me because we that's that's something that's been really huge for us, is to go on the hunts to today. Yeah, I can imagine that has got to be pretty neat to be able to experience that with your dad so often in some of the incredible places you guys have been too, I bet um so so sort of related to what we're just talking about here is the fact that not only did you want to get involved in hunting when you were twenty, but more and more today. Right, there's more women than ever that are getting to a point now where they develop an interest in hunting. And you know, as we mentioned, I talked about a little bit earlier today in the show that the past five, six, seven years, a tremendous amount of the growth we've seen in hunter numbers is coming from females. So with that being the case, why do you think that is? Um, you know, it's been a long time coming. Obviously, the female demographic of something that hasn't been hasn't expanded in years and years, and then if it is, it's really slow. But I think people maybe could have guessed it was gonna get bigger and more popular, but I don't think anyone foresaw it becometing one is today. I mean, it's just exploding. The women demographic is just huge. We're actually talking to uh, Johnny Morris, the guy, the man who owns bass grow shops. So he's very experienced. You know, he's been in the industry for a long time. And he told us ten years ago, um, three percent of his buyers at basketrow shop were women, and now thirty percent is I mean, if you can just imagine how many people buy from basketball jobs like this is a very big scale that he was talking. It's thirty percent of those people are women in that that's absolutely humongous. It's so wonderful for our hunting industry. It's just, I mean, you never saw it coming. But when women are involved, that's going to get their kids involved. Because the more women are about that, you know, they're saying this is okay to do. We can be hunters. You can be a hunter if you're a girl or a boy, or young or old, and that's going to get their kids involved the next generation. It's just it's it's so great for hunting in for the future of hunting. I'm I'm so happy. I'm right in the middle of it. It's a lot of fun. It's great. Agree, it's it's one of the best developments I think we've seen the hunting world really ever, right, We've been like you said, this has been a long time coming. So it's great to see kind of this industry and this kind of brotherhood of men and women finally coming together and making sure that this is happening, that everyone is getting involved. Yeah, and I think the industry is really doing great at its not only accepting it, but promoting that those women involved, but they're all the different companies are really jumping on board and getting women's products, because that's the big thing as well. When I was young, um, there wasn't a lot of women first of all in the hunting industry. But even the women that did, they had to use all the men's stuff, so it was like it wasn't like we women were really the hunters. It was like the women were just tagging along and they kind had to use the leftovers, like to hand me down sort of thing. And now I mean, you look, there's women's those that under Armer has their women's line, which is amazing. There's women's guns that are fit for women, smaller or lighter. Um, there's you know everything. There's Pietti Coolers makes pink um coolers, which I mean not everyone likes pink, but it's just nice that there's different options. And I think I think Dan really likes us too. Yeah, I'm yeah, Tim. Tim was trying to steal mine, my fiance, but I told him it was mine and habit, it doesn't matter what color is, as long as it keeps the beercle or the fish or whatever. Yeah, exactly what do they say, wildly stronger, keeps us longer. I think it is what the line right? Yeah, exactly. Crazy. I mean we live over in Florida and we were here in the summer and we have I have a handful of the coolers, which is so awesome when we have them on our boat and stuff, and it's amazing. I mean, I'm melting. It's a million degrees of that and I opened the cool and it's so everything's freezing. And this is something I don't know well how they make those things, but they're I want to just crawl inside in the summer in Florida, all right for for those women who who may be on the fence, let's say they're their husband hunts or their their father hunts that recently haven't showed any interest in the past. Is there a tipping point or any piece of advice or something you'd like to share with them on why they should give hunting a try. Yeah. It's different for everyone, obviously, and they all have their own reasons why they do or don't hunt. Like my mom doesn't hunt because you know, sheep is. There's enough meeting nor for users. We don't need to have another person shooting animals. And that's true. I mean, we're fine, we don't need it. But a lot of people have other reasons, whatever they are. But my biggest suggestion is just you know, get out there and try it. You don't need to shoot something, you don't need to be the one to pull the trigger, but go enjoy the adventure of the hunt, in the journey, because that's what hunters love. I mean, you love being in the outdoors. We love the fresh air, we love all space and the quiet. And I think people that don't um, or that don't hunt, they don't quite realize it's not hundreds of just go walk into the wood, shoot something and laugh and then you know, go home. They go for the whole adventure of it, in all the different aspects. And the killing is a very small part of what hunting is. It's just part of it. But there's all the other great things that maybe people that don't hunt, um aren't aware of, and if they've even a try, they'd realize there's so many great things involved with it, um. And you know, in that sense, also if you can go for women at archer if they want to shoot something yet, go to the bow range and practice shooting a bow, or join an archery club and they provide the bows and can shoot, or go to a gun range, and I'm sure a lot of people at the gun range will be happy to show a new hunter or a new shooter how to shoot a gun and lend them something to try at the range. And you know, hundreds are friendly, wonderful, warm people, and it's just a great industry. You're a great hobby whatever it is that to be part of. So I encourage it at least give it a try. Yeah, I think something you said, but earlier, UM, it was something I've seen two with my wife, and that when you mentioned that you weren't sure if you could hunt a deer or moose or something first, but a war hog, because it was kind of ugly, might be a little bit easier to to kind of test the waters with. My wife said the same thing. I've always you know, encouraged her if she ever was interested, you know, I would love to take her out, and she was always like, I don't know if I could do it. I don't know if I could do it. And then finally one day I was going turkey hunting and she's like, you know what, I could probably go turkey hunting. They've got a really ugly looking face. I could probably do. Yeah, no offense to the turkeys. They're they're delicious and they they're exciting to hunt, but they got a weird thing going on with that snood and the weird layers of skin, so funny. Yeah, I've heard that a lot. I've heard a lot of people start with turkeys. Well, I don't know if just because they're smaller than other animals, or because, like you said, they had kind of a funny looking space or whatever it is, or maybe because it's a shotguns so it's easier to hit it versus one bullet um you know, I'm not sure. But and the other thing is if you're taking out for the reverse role, if you're someone that wants to take out a new hunter, I mean, don't push them first of all, but don't make them take shots that are three hundred yards like I don't even take me into Dard shots. My dad barely take shots because those are tough, and that if you do wound an animal, it's really hurtful. And I don't know, I'm sure most hunters will agree. When you anyone that's hunted enough, they've hit an animal bad at some point and it's a really sad thing. And obviously you do your very best recovered age to make another shot. But you don't want new hunters to start out with this feeling of oh, I heard an animal or I didn't make a good shot. You want them to have a positive experience. So if you can't get the animal close enough, if the person feels comfortable and make sure they know how what their comfort zone is for shooting, and just call off shops, they don't have to shoot it. And at the end of the day, the success of a hund is not when it is an animal and they're down. It's the fact that you went out, you enjoyed it together, You've got the fresh air and all the other things that are so great about it. And I think that new hunter will be much more willing to go back and try to can if they have a good experience, and if they are pushed too hard. Yeah, I think that's amazing advice. That's so important. It seems to make sure those initial experiences are positive and like you said, not being pushed and they don't give a little kid. Don't give them a big, a big caliber. You know they're going to hurt their shoulder and be scared at the recoil. Give them a twenty two or something, and you know, let them shoot with it a bunch so they know what it's going to feel like. You don't need to thump them and scare them. And if they don't want blood on them, like I know a lot of people hear blood on their face on their first HANDIM like, I didn't want that and my dad. The thing with my dad, who was very respectful that you know, I am a lady into me, I didn't want blood scared on me. And I know that's the tradition. A lot of people think funny, and that's if you think that's funny, that's great, and that's the tradition. But for me, I didn't. So he I respected that that he could perforce things like that on me, and I think that went a long way as far as how much I loved hunting. Yeah, that's great now. You know, I think you've kind of alluded to us a little bit, and you mentioned, um the fact that more and more now there's women in the hunting industry and now you are one of those women, and inevitably, younger people or any age of women is gonna be looking up to you as a role model now that you are in this position. How do you feel about being role model to younger hunters and other women? And you know, what do you think what kind of responsibilities do you feel you have now because of that? Well, like you said, there's a lot of women in the industry now, and there's a lot of people sort of in the same position as me, where they're on shows or they're you know, social media presidents or whatever it is. And I think that's great because there's a there's a handful of us now that um, I guess have a following or whatever you want to call it. And it's good because we all sort of represent different things. We all like, I'm very much into the family and that kind of thing, and some other ones have different things that they are known for. That means that all the little girls of the world that are interested in hunting, whether they're have one personality or the other, they're going to have someone. Whether it's me or Tiffany or you know, Taylor Drewy or whoever it is, they're gonna have one that they can look up to and say, oh, I like that person or I like those two people and not that one. It doesn't matter. I don't care if they don't like me. But the fact that they have options of who they can look up to and see is good representatives of the hunting industry. That's perfect. So um being I guess in the public eye, I've known from the beginning your decisions you make and the actions you do, and you know how you present yourself and how you represent what you stand for. It makes a big impact. You can impact people's lives. And there's whether it's a thousand girls or five thousand little girls or thirty thousands of the girls, whatever it is that they're following me on Facebook, whether they're using their parents Facebook accounts and their parents dad's showing the pictures. Um, that means a lot to me. So I take it seriously. Definitely don't take it lightly and think I can just do whatever I want and not care about it. Like when I make decisions or when I post things. I'm very aware that there's all these little eyebolts watching me, like what's gonna do, What's she gonna do? And that's it's a cool thing to have, but it's as about a lot of pressure because I'm semi responsible for these little girls, whether they are going to turn into Hunters or whether they're going to say, oh, I don't like hunting, I don't like what he was doing, I don't like what she stands for, and then they're going to go the other way and we're gonna lose a big chunk of the next generation of Hunters. So, um, I'm definitely take it seriously and I'm proud of it. But I also it's a constant thought in my head of what I'm doing and what I'm showing, and I mean it, this is who I am, So I'm true to myself and I really, I really don't make any decisions differently than I would if there was no one looking at me. But it's just it's just good to always be aware of the impassive we have on these kids. Yeah, and I think a lot of what you said there is why I really wanted to have you on the show because from watching you know, you're increased um position in the hunting world. I've seen you consistently be considered of those things and the fact that you are a role model and take you know, take pride in yourself and do things in a classy manner that I think all all hunters can be proud of. So you know, I appreciate that about what you've done. And I think there's a lot of people maybe in a similar position as you. If they were in a similar position, they might go about a different way. Maybe they can make more money or get more fame for different things. But you've done, um You've done some things I think you should be really proud of. And uh, I'm excited for, you know, hopefully to have a daughter. Someday he'll be able to look up to someone like you and and really get into hunting because of great role models like you and others in the industry. Thank you. You know that's actually I think, like I mean, I don't have kids and just engage, right know, but I think of the same thing. I think if I have a daughter, who's you know, in in the ages where she can be have, you know, vulnerable to different things that she's seeing, if she's eight or nine or ten or fifteen. What the decisions I'm making and how I'm presenting myself. Would I want my daughter to be watching me and looking up to someone like me? Or would I think that that's not appropriate? So I really try to stick with that and keep that in mind. So I pre that's really nice. Thank you, Yeah, of course. Um, So slight shift on topic then, um, before we make a major shifting topic. Um, you know, when it comes to being a female hunter, what do you think is one of the or several of the greatest challenges that might be unique to you know where you're coming from that might be different than me or Dan, Is there anything or would you say it's all the same. So it's definitely challenges. I mean that the obvious biggest challenge would phase maybe that in the past women haven't been considered hunters or except to the hunters, And now we're as much as the demographics growing rapidly, and you still face the same thing. People see you and then say that if you need and see my dad, obviously they're gonna say, oh, he's a better hunter, and in our case, he definitely is. But there's lots of situations where there's a girl and a guy and the girls much better at hunting, or better at shooting, or better at whatever it is. And I think, um, people are still getting used to that. And I haven't had a lot of negatives about that. I really haven't, which I'm very happy for. I haven't had a lot of people give me negative comments about being me, me being female hunter. I just think at first they're almost a little bit shocked. Still, it's almost they're just trying to come around, and they're still like, oh, my goodness, she's a girl and she hunts, like she's gonna be winding and prissy and she's gonna want to do her makeup on in the middle of the mountain. And you know that's not the case. Obviously. I love wearing makeup, I love getting dressed out. But when I'm hunting. I'm hunting, and it's it's a different thing. You're not gonna hear me wine or complain. You're gonna hear me do what everyone else does. And I'm sure that's the same with a lot of girl. So that's one thing. Another just natural thing. Obviously, you know we're not naturally as strong as men. That's just a common sense thing. We can't lift the same on average as Like I can't lift what my dad can lift. But the difference is we can do it, or we can help in other ways. We can, whether it's us lifting the same amount but in smaller amounts over and over, or maybe we have a different job that we're better at that my dad's not as good at. And you know, there's there's places in positions for males and females, and I think you just have to be you know, you don't have to fight it. I don't fight that. I can't list what my dad can lift, but I am helpful and I try to make camp easier in my own way. So that's one. And I think the last thing is we get colder easier than guys, at least I do. And every girl that I've ever talked to you does. So my biggest thing is I just make sure I always have so many layers on. My dad will be wearing a long soa shirt. I'll be wearing, you know, a down jacket and a vast and I will be wearing a jacket and I'll be wearing four jackets. So it's just natural, um, And it's just part of it. And you know, it's I don't know if it's smaller body size or what it is, but as long as you just take care of yourself and you're prepared, you fit in pretty well and people are pretty happy to have you out there. That's great now, that's that's interesting to hear and and good for me and Dandy here too as we think about, you know, what challenges there might be for our role, for Dan's daughter, my future daughter. Um, you know, I'm trying to get my nieces into hunting as well. So this is great stuff, great insight. Yeah, it's nice, awesome if you're trying to get people and help them find someone to follow, help them find some whether it's me or whether it's off a year, whether the cold, whoever it is that they they you think that they would be interested in like show them their Facebook pages and maybe they don't they're too young, abbay books, but just share pictures and show well, this girl like a lot of little girls, I know, they're scared kind of like I was when I was younger. They don't want to be seen as the boys. But shows them like this eva, where's makeup and even where his dresses? And she I was a professional dancer, like shows them that and say but she can also put on camel and people think it's you know, they don't make fun with her for it. And that's a lot of little girls, I guess, change their opinions about what they think of a cuner. So it's a great social media is a great tool to have in that sense. Yeah, yeah, I agree. I think it's a great Like you said, it shows other, you know, little girls, it's okay to do this kind of thing and that that's totally normal and it's great and it's something that you know, it's worth looking into because I think a lot of you know, stereotypes and norms would say, oh, that's that's a boy thing, when luckily that's changing now. But it's great to have someone to look up to like you for that exactly now now I want to take a shift, and you had mentioned something just briefly, are a little bit about the negativity, And you know, over the past year or so, there have been a number of very kind of high profile incidents of hunter harassment, especially with things being said online, pictures posted by Melissa Bachman or Kendall Jones and recently you too, where female hunters have gotten a really high amount of fleck from non hunters and animal rights activists. So my question for you is, do you think that women are more likely to get this negative response than you know, you know, male hunters, And if so, you know why why is that? Why has there been so much negativity around these couple incidents? Yeah, I definitely think um, women have it a little harder as far as the social media response to being hunters. And I don't think it's really some big, brilliant reason. I think it's just there's the anti hunters and they've been against hunting for so many of years and they claim that, you know, they want love and peace and love thy neighbor and love everybody and love animals, But then they come on and they attack us really aggressively and very much hypocritically to what they stand for, what they claim they stand forth. Do you see that? Um? And at first, if you get attack like that, and then I don't know if you have been or if people listening happens, but you get those attacks and you go immediately your first responses to say, oh my gosh, what a horrible person, this anti hunter is like how could they say that? And I always wonder, like, do they have a mother or a father or someone just show them that you can't say these things to people. And yet they're behind a computer screen, so it makes it a little easier, but still I think you should say responsibility. But the difference is between what they say to me versus what they say to my dad or any other girl versus another man. Um. I think they see him and almost like no offense to my dad, but like a lost cause he's a hunter. He's always going to be hunter. He's a middle aged man, you know, redneck whatever. They see that and they say that's what we think of as Sarah typical hunters, so we're just not gonna care about that. But then they see someone like me or Melissa or Kendall Jones and they say, well, that's not a hunter, Like, how if this person can't be hunter? This opens up a whole another world of potential demographic for new hunters, and I think it scares the anti hunters. It just gives them fear for what they stand for and what they think is right, which obviously is not. If they really understood huntings that I think they would change their minds. But they see all the all the girls, and they get fearful that maybe that's going to open up another world of future hunters and potential hunters, and that that is bad obviously for what they think what they stand for. So they attack us as much as they possibly can. They get all their friends to come attack us, and you know, I always see them to the people that ask if it's you know, if it's so horrible, and yeah, it's horrible. It's really rude, and it makes me sad that these people are stooping for that level to say things like that to me. But at the end of the day, if I'm going to have five thousand horrible comments, but I'm going to have two great comments in supportive hunters and people that are promoting hunting and sharing huntings to their friends, I'll have no problem taking the key because I know that in the long run it's the positive people and the hunters that are really benefiting from it, and they're they're more active, and they're more proud and promoting what they believe in. And that's just you know, it's great for hunting. So it's you know, it's no, it's no fun, but it's it's worth it. Yeah, And it's it's a it's a horrible it's obviously horrible that this stuff is said that and that these things become such a media madhouse with all its attention. UM. But I'm glad that some people can handle like you've been able to handle it, because really, this is I feel so strongly that this is These types of UM incidents really hold it up. They sway a lot of people's opinions, and they get people thinking about these things. And unfortunately, you know, hunting in America or Canada, wherever it might be. You know, even though it should be, it really isn't a right. In the end. It's a privilege given to us by you know, the state and the government. And really that right is or that privilege is given to us by the voters. And right now, something like eight seven percent of people out there aren't hunters. So if that public opinion, if those people all of a sudden decided no hunting isn't okay, all of a sudden, they could vote against what we believe and we could lose that privilege to hunt. And so that public opinion, whether you like it or not, is important. And I think that when these conversations start being head and they're put out there on on Fox News or CNN and people start debating these things, I am just so thankful that you're the person who's talking about that or someone else and not um, you know, not the stereotypical hunter that everyone likes to imagine a hunters like who you know is doing the things that some of the anti hunters like to claim we all do. Um. But it's something that's yeah, I I completely agree with you, whether it's I mean me, obviously, I'm happy to do it, and I think that I stand up for what's right and represented in the mage place. So that for me that's great. But there's also a lot of other people that would also be great at it, and it's just the case of, you know, you have to show them that what we're doing is right. At the end of the day, hunting is a good thing. So that's what I would say. Hunting is a good thing. So you just have to break it down. Why is it a good thing? Will conservation? Will fresh air? Organic meat? I mean the other thing sometimes they ask people on Facebook. I'm getting attacked by from all sides, by these people that hate what I do. And I post something. I go into their Facebook page and just see, like, who is this person saying these things? And they go look at it for It takes me two minutes and I see they're eating a steak at dinner, they're having a hamburger, they're having they have They're driving in a car with leather seats, They're wearing leather shoes, and I'm just looking at them, like, are you kidding me with this? How hyd a critical you're being? We as hunters, we provide ourselves with all of those things. If you have those things, then you're not really an anti hunter. You're just totally misinformed in naive about what it is you believe in. Because you can't have leather things and not like hunting. It just doesn't make sense to me. So that, I mean, it gets me kind of rolled. That's a you can see, it just makes spensive because you know, they're having is such a great thing in the world, and the more we can talk about it on mainstream and represent it in a great way and really show people. I'm not just gonna fight with the Independent, So that's not what I'm here to do. I'm not here to swear at them and stoop down to their level. I'm here to talk about hunting and how great it is and promoted by showing them two beneficial things we as hunters do, and without us the wildlife management programs and all of that animal populations, it would be a lot worse off than it is right now. So, and you mentioned briefly on this a little bit earlier about social media, and you have a gigantic following. You have like over you know, over seven hundred thousand friends or whatever on Facebook, you have over fifty Twitter followers. What message would you like to, you know, to tell your followers. Is there is there a particular message that you'd like to share about hunting in general? Um, I mean there's definitely a few overriding themes of what I stand for and who I am hunting, and like I said, hunting is a good thing. I try to show them that I don't just hunt to kill something. I hunt first of all and foremost for me, it's family. So that's something that hunters as a whole. We stand for family. We used to have the basis and the quality of life that we enjoy. Promoting family is a great thing. I mean, the world today maybe doesn't. The marriage or the divorce rate sorry is so high in Hollywood, doesn't really support family and every every other whole so many industries, but hunting is different. The hunting industry really supports and stands behind the importance of family. So for me, that's something I try to share with everybody on social media. Obviously, the natural elements of hunting that you know, you can go to the grocery store and buy a stake that has hormones and pesticides and everything else in it, or or you can go and sit in the tree stand have this wonderful experience being the fresh air, turn off your cell phone, in your computer and your whatever else for the afternoon and ended up shooting something and getting it just skinning yourself, or getting it bushered and putting in your freezer, and there's no hormones, no pest sides. It has had a wonderful life up until that exact point, as opposed to being in cages. So hunting for that element you you're provided with this meat that's so much healthier than getting you at the grocery store, and you know, the animals had a good life. So if you have sort of feeling that hunting has so many positive elements, I think that's one that I try to share with people. I think those are such important things for for all of us to remember. Like you said, hunting is a good thing, and I think it's important for us to be able to build to effectively communicate that with people when they start asking us questions about these things. You know, yeah, if you get attacked, you need to have sponsors. And it's just it took me a while to really get a full grass and that's probably why I did not, because I didn't really understand the concept of this animal is going to go into my freezer and then money from the tag of this animal is going to go back into wildlife management and all those things. They're so great and its once you understand that, it's pretty hard to argue against hunting because it's just you know, it doesn't what you're trying to say, It doesn't make any sense when you know all those elements. Yeah, so kind of tie into something we were just talking about a minute ago and into this right here. You know, every time that we have a conversation with someone on the fence about hunting or someone who's you know, against hunting, UM, we're kind of fighting this this tiny little little teeter tot of a battle where we might be able to change you know, someone's opinion or family's opinion, or you know, however many other people that one person might touch. Every single interaction we have with someone who's on the fence about hunting, it's important. And so it's important to a you know, do the understand the things you would just you just mentioned there about why hunting is good um, and then be to represent ourselves and conduct ourselves in a way that positively, you know, shines on hunting. So when they say, hey, the way that person acts or the way that person hunts, or the way that person talks about hunting, you know, that's that looks like a pretty good thing. I could get behind that. And then number three, Um, finally tying into what you've had to deal with Eva being handling the harassment negatively. It's how you handle that. So we've kind of walked around the subject a little bit and you've mentioned a few things, but I want to make sure we we touch on it directly, for you know, for a young girl out there, let's say, who was getting into hunting. Maybe she's in high school and she's gotten in hunting, and now all of a sudden, some people find out she's shot a deer and she starts getting harassed about it, and people are giving a really hard time. Um, because you know you're not supposed to hunt, or that's horrible thing, or whatever it might be. What would your advice be to that young girl or woman who's dealing with us for the first time? Um, is there anything else? Specifically? You would say that they should be keeping in mind that they should a factor and when dealing with that. Yeah, I just stand by what you believe. And if you're a hunter or your hunter, and if you're hunting, is because you understand why it's good, you understand all the positive elements. And if you don't, I mean, if you just started hunting and you're still a little confused, just go on mind, go on websites and go an sci or n Ray or whatever. Other websites as well, Turkey Foundation anything. They have so many great STAPs and information, whether it's for yourself just to know, or whether it's something that you want to have in your pocket. When an anti hunter comes up and says you shouldn't do what you do, and you know that you're supposed to you should do what you do, but you're not quite sure how to put it into words, that's a great way. I mean, I actually should go brush up because it's great to have both stats to really show you know I'm right. I'm not just holding this out of nowhere, like these are real numbers and come back, come back at me and to tell me you don't like hunting when you have your own numbers that prove otherwise because you're not going to find them. They just don't exist. And the other thing is I think it's important as well. I mean, being a hunter is a great thing. But I don't posted on Facebook for shock value, Like I'm not going to post it for attention as far as I want to shock people and just have them say, oh my goodness, what's goin on? Like blood everywhere and guts and I mean, yeah, blood is part of it, and gutting an animal's part of a hunt. But you don't have to publish that, I think. I mean, if you want to, you're welcome to. But the thing is you want to keep it respectful. Like when people don't like hunting, or maybe they don't mind hunting, but they don't want to see that. You just have to respect that a little bit and show when we post pictures. You'll never see a picture on our pages or on our TV show, even as much as we can help it, like that, we won't have blood showing, we won't have their tongue sticking out. We want to show respect to this animal because it's not just some random thing we shoot and walk by and don't care about. I mean, there's a huge amount of respect for the animals that we do hunt, and they gave their lives for us and we get to enjoy their meat for the rest of the year the season. So we try to show them with respect and in return, people that maybe are on the sense about hunting or don't like hunting, they give a little more respect back to us because they know, you know, we're not being rude. We're sitting on the animals, are standing on the animals. You know, this is a real, live thing and that it's very important to us. So that's another thing, just trying to keep that respect level up and then stand by what you believe. Yeah, that is huge. And again, you know, I think all these things are all really closely tied and together that like you said, it's such a representation that when someone sees these pictures we post on social media, they're gonna make judgment calls based on that. And if we aren't careful about what we put out there, the wrong judgment could be made. Um, exactly, we had we actually I was doing an interview a few months ago and um, the person asked me, don't think how it went. He said that a woman from this town wrote in and said that they're um gun course, like their field instructor or whatever for your gun course, gun safety certificate or hunting safety. He told the instructor. So this guy's a hunter, he told all his students, but they absolutely should not post anything about hunting on Facebook or social media. They should not have any dead animals. And I had the interview I was doing, asked me what my opinion was and I think that's absolutely completely wrong. I don't think that man was right in any way to tell a students that. I understand his reasoning. He was trying not to get his young students, you know, in trouble or get them to a controversy. But if you're a hunter, you understand, like we've talked about in this interview, you you understand why hunting is so great and so positive, and you're not doing anything wrong. You're proud to do what you do, so there's no reason to hide it. But at the same time, in a small way, I agree with this man as far as you know, like I said, be respectful, and it's not for shock value. It's because this is a great thing you're doing. And it's even better if you can show your family eating the meat from the Deer Show, say that we're what you're going to use the meat for, who you're giving it to, anything like that. It's just those small things. They represent us as hunters as a whole, and you have to remember, whether you're me and have all these people on Facebook, or whether you're Joe from next door who has five people on Facebook, every one of us represents hunters as a group, and if we want the future of hunting, like you said, it's a it's not a right, it's sort of a something that we're given by the government currently, which is a little bit upsetting. But if you want to keep that going and keep the future of hunting straw, and you have to know that everything you put out there is a hunter is going to look like back on the hunters. So don't go drinking and drinking beer in the woods and shooting animals. That's not what we do. We're you know, we have ethics in world, and we have highly regulated hunting seasons and all of that is um really important that people know that and that we fall the role absolutely. And I think something that you had mentioned there ties into, ironically enough, something that I heard your dad talk about on the Joe Rogan Experience podcast, which is a great interview he did there month or two ago, and it was actually planning I'm planning and writing an article about this whole topic because I've got some thoughts on it too, But I'm curious to hear your perspective. I think it ties into what you just said there. But you know, when it comes to photos on Facebook or Twitter, or whatever it might be. It seems in a lot of cases that non hunters when they see photos of someone next to a dead animal and we're smiling, the act of smiling next to a dead animal, that seems we're really off putting to a lot of people. And I guess from an outside perspective, maybe I can see that, But from an inside perspective, I understand there's a lot more going on there that is why we're smiling in that picture. Um, but I'm curious for you, what are your thoughts on that and how do you explain that to a nun hunter? Well, I mean, I understand the concept behind it. I understand it looks a little weird for dander to see someone with the dead animal smiling when I don't know what they think we should be doing. I don't know if they want us to post it crying. I'm just sure. Yeah. The best thing is, you know, at hunters, you work hard for those animals. You put in the hours, you put in the practice off your shooting or bow hunting or whatever. You obviously put a lot of money into it for the tags and for the products. It's of the year that you need to hunting is not a cheap thing to do. But when you work hard and you do all those things and everything comes together and you know, sometimes it doesn't, but sometimes it does if you're lucky and you get this animal. The basics behind it is what we've talked about, that it's a great thing. Hunting is a great thing, and the fact that you actually got an animal after working hard is you know, cherry on top. So when you're posting a picture, I guess it goes back to smiling in a picture. It's still you know, you're still being respectful. You're proud of what you accomplished. You're proud that all the things you believe in all came together and it's sitting there in front of you, and that meat is something you get to eat. I mean, you don't see anti hunters in the grocery store buying state crying. You know, it's just not it doesn't make any sense because it doesn't like it's just sort of it almost doesn't make sense to me that they would care about that. But um, yeah, it just when you understand all the things and all the reasons why you hunted, you're proud to be hunter. And you know, I'm so proud to be a hunter anyone in the world and ask me if they have a gun to my head and asked me if I'm proud to me hunter, Like I'm going to say yes because I am. So. I don't see why having a photo of smiling, that's just showing you that you're proud and you're you know, you're doing the right thing. So in that sense, I think they just need to stop looking at our pictures. Maybe al right, So I have a I have a question, and this is really not related, um, but me and Mark are obsessed when it comes to der season opening day. And I remember this year we were we were texting back and forth at like midnight, one o'clock. Are you pumped? I'm pumped and all this stuff. Are you as obsessed as we are? And what's what season? What animal gets you the most excited? Oh my gosh, totally as obsessed we have. The worst part is we have so many people in our company that are all involved. Whether it's camera guys or whether it's someone else you know at our hunt an area that they're putting out date or whether they're checking the stealth cams or whatever it is. There always seems to be some kind of season in their company that's happening, um, And there's always something to be excited about. So I think we're even more obsessed maybe because we always have, like most the average person probably as deer and turkey season. We have like r Sason to get excited, and then we have moose sason and caribou, and then we have Turkey and there and you know Africa. My dad was going to Africa, and I will be excited about every time you text me a picture. UM, So I definitely am as excited. As far as my favorite hunts, I always say, um, the Yukon is my favorite because I love the area and the pristine purity, and you know, you're the middle of nowhere. No one can get to your two and a half our flight from the closest road. You're just in the middle of absolute heaven on earth. But as far as getting excited about something, I'm gonna say it's white tail season because that's the kind of thing. I mean, Moose, you kind of go off, They drop you off in a full plane and you're on your own and just have to figure it out. It's fine what you're looking for. But like every white tail hunter knows. There's a lot that goes into it as far as cameras, like we put our salth cameras that months in advance and set up first stance and everything else, um that's involved with deer hunting. And every day someone will pick up the cameras, whether it's me if I'm there, or someone our neighbors will we PieP them up and sendis to photos. You have to look at all the camera photos and see what's coming in and see how big it is, and age them and see if you've seen them in years past. And so for me white tail hunting. And I'm sure my dad would probably agree as far as getting excited about a season that would that would probably sop it off because you really have a lot of lead up to the season before. Yeah, I think you know. We actually interviewed your dad a couple of months ago on the podcast, and I think we asked a similar question and he said, I believe something pretty clol. I think he said moose is his favorite animal to hunt, but white tailed deer was was the animal if you could only hunt one thing for the rest of his life, that would be the animal because of everything. Yeah, exactly it's and it's cool because it's white chillum. We'd probably be the same in that sense. If we could have one animal for rest of our life and not have anything else, I would definitely have white tail as well. Because every white tail hunt every from year to year or province to province or stake to state. I mean, they're so different and you can it's I love it because they're antlers kind of tell a story. And I love that you can see them from year to year and see them grow and if they get hurt, you see you know, a drop, time start developing, and you see this and that, and then they start getting smaller when they're that old, and it tells the story just by their antlers, let alone the beautiful animals that are actually carrying the antlers. And I mean, on top of all that, my favorite meat to eat is dennison. So at the end of the season, I'm really happy if we have a year on the ground. Whatever the antlers or non antlers look like, it's just it's a great thing to have in your freezer for the rest of the year. Yeah, so true. We me and Dan could go for hours talking about why we love white tails so much. So we better stop now. Um So my final question for you. You mentioned at the beginning of the show that you recently had your own bow you know, announced by bow Tech, and things are going great for you with you know, your show with your dad and whatnot. But is there ever going to be plans to have your own show in the future. Um, it's funny as that because yes, I mean there there has been plans for that, probably for about five years now, since I started. It's always been a discussion. We've gone back and forth withoutdoor channel, and I don't really sure how much about but um, yeah, there definitely is. It's more than it hasn't been that we couldn't make it happen because obviously we have the editors and we have the opportunity to do that. It's just my dad, which I have huge respect for him. He's been really careful in helping me sort of maneuver my way in the industry, and you know, he's been a great role model first of all, but he knows that you can't just jump in and expect it to go like great. You have to make small decisions, and every small decision least to the next slightly bigger decision in this lightly bigger decision, and the roles I've taken and the jobs I've taken and the companies I've represented, I mean, those are all carefully sought out because we know that every decision I make is going to affect the future. So we haven't we haven't jumped in for me to do my own show at this point, but I will tell you that it's definitely getting a lot closer and I'm sure it will be uh something that will be happening in the near future. That's exciting news, and I'm glad that you were able to tell us that too. I know there'll be a lot of people excited to see that whenever that comes comes down the pipe. Hopefully hopefully I'm not listening because I'm not really sure what it was allowed to say that, but sorry, I'll do my best to make sure they don't here, but I don't think i'll have much luck. Well, even this has been an awesome conversation. I think, um, it's something we haven't been able to talk about yet in the podcast over the past year, but it's such an important topic, so I appreciate you being with us here to have this conversation. To talk about these important things and to to do it in such a great way. I think again I said it before, but we appreciate the way that you represent hunters and females and hunting um. So thank you for that. And then also for those that want to keep up to date on your latest hunting adventures or want to learn more about Jim Shocky hunting adventures or anything like that, where can they go to get that information online? Oh there's a lot of places now actually, thanks for social media, we have the best place for us probably would be Facebook. So it's Facebook dot com. And if you want me, it's slash Eva Shocky fan page. And if you want my dad's page, slash Jim Shocky fan page. And then we're both on Instagram and Twitter. The best ways just Instagram dot com slash you Shocky or Twitter dot com slash you Shocking. There's not a lot of Eva Shockys out there. So I kind of got my DIDs on my name, and I get I'm the one person that gets my actual name and doesn't have one decided or something. You didn't have to pay twenty bucks to get that or convinced Twitter. I'm just I'm just waiting for someone another a shocky that has a bigger job than idea, that they're going to kick me out of my own Well, I hope it doesn't happen, but thank you again. This has been awesome and best of luck with with everything that's coming year. Thank you, it's been great you guys. It's awesome to hear you guys that are so excited about hunting and care so much about the future of it. So any time you guys want me on here, I'm yours awesome. Well we might take you up on that, perfect all right, but by now even thanks a lot, thanks so nice. Al Right, Well, I think that's going to be it for us today. And I thought this is a really cool conversation and I hope you guys did too. That said, for showing some links from today's episode, visit wired to Hunt dot com slash episode thirty nine. And if you haven't done so already, make sure you subscribe to the Weird Hunt podcast on iTunes, the Apple podcast app, or the Stitcher app so you can get all of your future episodes downloaded right to your phone or tablet. It's by far the best way to get your podcasts and as we always ask if you enjoy the show today, we would really appreciate if you could leave a rating or review on iTunes now. As always, we'd also like to thank our partners who helped make this show possible so big thanks to Sick of Gear, Trophy, Ridge Bear Archery, Redneck Blinds, Carbon Express Arrows, Hunts, Soft Lacrosse Boots, Big and J long Range attractants in the White Tail Institute of North America. And finally, thank you all for being with us here today. If you're hunting season isn't over yet, good luck in these final hunts. And if it is over, well, it's time to start working towards the next one, so keep after it and stay Weired to Hunt

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